Military Review

“Fascists”, “terrorists”, Americans, Russians and others: who will win in Ukraine?

32
Western media have once again tried to understand who is fighting with whom in Ukraine and who is waiting for victory. Sober analysts are inclined to believe that there are no Russian military on the separatist, but the United States intervenes in the conflict. As for the opposition, not territorial, but ideological, that is, the French view of victory on this front of Russia.


“Fascists”, “terrorists”, Americans, Russians and others: who will win in Ukraine?


The site Global Post 18 May appeared material signed by Jean MacKenzie (Jean MacKenzie) with the subtitle: "Will the Kyiv 'fascists' talk to the 'terrorists' from the east?" ("Will the Kiev" fascists "agree with the" terrorists "in the east?" ) The words "Fascists" and "terrorists" were quoted, apparently, deliberately. This reflects the caution-objective attitude of the author to the events in question.

According to the author, good news - the fact that there is some agreement on finding a way out of the deepening Ukrainian crisis. But here is the bad news: none of the main parties to the conflict is ready to talk to the other.

The interim government of Arseniy Yatsenyuk refuses to deal with the separatists from eastern Ukraine, who, according to him, have “blood on their hands”. "Separatists" reject Yatsenyuk and his team as a gathering of illegitimate coup.

As a result, the observer notes, both sides call each other: who gets the definition of “fascist junta”, and to whom - “gang of terrorists”.

As a result, there is almost no hope for fruitful negotiations.

At the same time in the press there is a lot of misinformation, as well as charges and assumptions. The author has reviewed some of the key issues that are often distorted when trying to misinformation or outright lies.

1. Is it true that behind the unrest in the east of Ukraine is Russia?

Moscow argues that it has nothing to do with unrest and strongly denies the presence of its military personnel in unstable areas. Kiev insists that Moscow is to blame for everything. But neither Kiev nor Washington have any real evidence of Moscow’s “guilt”. So, there is no definite answer.

2. Does the United States interfere in Ukrainian events? Yes. Here and Victoria Nuland talk with Jeffrey Payette, and John McCain, who supported the Ukrainian nationalists, and 400 fighters from the American security company "Academy", who are "working" now in Eastern Ukraine. So, quite a definite answer.

3. How common is extreme nationalism in the interim government of Ukraine?

The Svoboda Party and its more radical partner Right Sector in Ukraine have been very active since the days of Maidan. Mackenzie finds these organizations anti-Russian rather than pro-European. He recalls the burning of at least 40 "pro-Russian separatists" in Odessa. Having set the fire, the "activists" stood outside and sang "the Ukrainian national anthem and shouted insults - while the people inside were burning."

On such a “dark background,” the author adds, the hope for successful negotiations is extremely low.

As for the ideological Ukrainian front, here, says Le Monde columnist Pyotr Smolar, who is quoted as saying "InoTV", Russia in the confrontation with the West won.

The analyst and the article entitled, respectively: "The ideological victory of Russia in Ukraine."

Smolyar, not at all sympathetic to the Kremlin, writes: “... Russian propaganda has swept away everything in its path, because it allows itself any means. The victory by knockout, a significant role in which journalists played. ”

According to the correspondent, the ideological victory of Russia is that Western people began to suspect their media of concealing the Nazi essence of the provisional government.

Smolyar himself objected to this: in the French editions there were many reports about the Right Sector and the Freedom Party.

However, in France, the Ukrainian crisis causes almost no discussion: “As if our elites do not understand the scale of what is being played out in Moscow. As if the collapse of a state located at the very borders of the European Union with a 45-million population does not concern us at all. As if our elites prefer to believe in the illusory restoration of normal relations with Russia at the end of the current fever. ”

The main information victory of Russia is the dissemination of the idea of ​​Ukraine as an “illegitimate” state. This opinion is shared, for example, by President Putin. Smolar adds: “23 of the year of independence means nothing. This undermines faith in the people, who themselves decide their own fate and are united by common ancestors and dramas like the Stalinist “famine”.

As a result, the launch by Moscow of the “mechanism” against Kiev Ukraine has weakened, and now it cannot carry out the reforms promised by foreign creditors. The country has lost the Crimea, lost control over the eastern regions, lost hope of rapprochement with the EU, the journalist writes.

And it does not occur to the French columnist that Russia did not conduct any kind of propaganda on Ukrainian TV channels for 23 of the year. But led by the West. After the “Euromaidan”, the Ukrainians themselves bitterly admitted that they did not have any media other than pro-American or frankly funded by Western structures.

The “23 of the Year of Independence”, about which Mr. Smolyar spoke with such pathos, is a whole epoch of informational activity of Western propagandists, and not at all of the Kremlin. These years finally split the Ukrainian society and became a protracted prelude to a civil war.

If the Russians really won the info war, this is truly a brilliant victory. The West has spent 23 of the year and 5 of billions of dollars on building democracy in the independent, and the Kremlin came and took the laurels for themselves.

Monsieur Smolar did not even realize that he had composed a panegyric to Putin.

Observed and commented on Oleg Chuvakin
- especially for topwar.ru
Photos used:
http://www.globalpost.com/
32 comments
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  1. mamont5
    mamont5 20 May 2014 07: 57
    +11
    "Fascists, terrorists, Americans, Russians and others: who will win in Ukraine?"

    Yes, no questions asked - OURS will win!
    1. mejik
      mejik 20 May 2014 09: 56
      +6
      Ours will definitely win! The question that worries me is, at what cost? Again, for the umpteenth time on our land the drama of a fratricidal war is being played out. The most active people, the most aspiring, are knocked out, on the one hand OUR, here, and on the other hand OUR, there, but by a whim of fate, and certainly by the whim of the "American", who turned out to be blinded by the desire to live like in the EU, but who have come up with nothing better than to make their own nest. Reading Ukrainian sites, you are amazed at how a huge mass of OUR THERE, with a blurred look and, in addition, with blinkers in their eyes, "squeezing the Russian out of themselves" and believe the paid scum more than their own heart than their brother, mother, blood. I do not know how all this can be stopped, and I believe that OUR HERE will defeat the Pindos hydra. It is a pity that on our land, already fertilized with abundantly shed fraternal blood.
    2. Not angry
      Not angry 20 May 2014 10: 41
      +2
      I sincerely wish victory to the residents of the South-East. So that their blood would stop flowing and they could calmly go about their earthly affairs and not who would not impose their ideals and opinions on them. I really hope that Russia will help them in this.
    3. subbtin.725
      subbtin.725 20 May 2014 17: 18
      0
      Quote: mamont5
      Yes, no questions asked - OURS will win!

      Nothing to add, the author briefly laid out everything on the shelves. Forward Southeast, Russian World will win!
  2. gandalf
    gandalf 20 May 2014 08: 00
    +11
    The Nazis do not agree with anyone. Either they destroy, or them. There is no third.
    1. Horst78
      Horst78 20 May 2014 08: 59
      +4
      Quote: gandalf
      The Nazis do not agree with anyone.

      and we don’t agree with them. They forgave us in 45, they made Nyurberg and what do we see after 69 years?
  3. Barboskin
    Barboskin 20 May 2014 08: 02
    +3
    Truth and justice will prevail. Moreover, Ukraine is a place of battle, and the victory will be global. Russia rules.
    1. 787nkx
      787nkx 20 May 2014 09: 12
      +1
      Truth and justice will prevail

      So it will be, all the strength in truth, only her face will not be very pleasant.
      But the truth is not always like it, and sometimes it hurts my eyes.
  4. mig31
    mig31 20 May 2014 08: 09
    +1
    Our people will triumph, as at all times, and the point ...
  5. saag
    saag 20 May 2014 08: 09
    +4
    gas will win
  6. Rurikovich
    Rurikovich 20 May 2014 08: 13
    +3
    The real state of affairs comes to some goals ... I’m glad that it comes, it saddens me that there are few of them and they have no effect on the alignment. Brainwashing in action.
  7. The comment was deleted.
  8. papont64
    papont64 20 May 2014 08: 29
    +2
    It’s 23 years in Russian to release everything on the brakes, and then politely chop off the Crimea ...
    1. Chelyabinsk
      Chelyabinsk 21 May 2014 07: 55
      0
      while smiling shyly
  9. cerbuk6155
    cerbuk6155 20 May 2014 08: 40
    +2
    Yes, we slept for 23 years. But they woke up nothing and saw the very inside of Ukraine, and it turned out that we had to give a laxative in order to cleanse, cleanse and cleanse of this manure. soldier
  10. Thompson
    Thompson 20 May 2014 09: 49
    0
    Share. When their media steered they glowed with happiness. Although they lied! Today they feel that our media are laying them on the shoulder blades, with their lies, you look like you have spoken !!! We will continue to wet!
    1. navara399
      navara399 20 May 2014 10: 29
      +1
      At the expense of "lay down on the shoulder blades", while it's too early. Painfully our media go wrong often. Professionalism is not enough in terms of responsibility for the unloaded material. It is a shame for them if Europops incriminate them in the application as facts of shooting of past years, is it really too lazy to just check the material, check the reliability. I hope that at least just laziness, and not a desire to declare yourself in any way.
      1. smile
        smile 20 May 2014 11: 40
        +3
        navara399
        Well, in my opinion, if we compare our media and the media of our potential friends, then our nonsense looks like a standard of honesty and truth. :))) It was to the coverage of Ukrainian recent events that ours approached very thoroughly and responsibly. They act quickly, there are very few mistakes, the allegations are substantiated by serious evidence.

        Well, with regards to victory, then you are right. Before the victory yet - as before the carrotkin's conspiracy. And I'm not talking about the struggle for the minds of the western man in the street - in my opinion, there simply does not shine for us to win because of the streamlined mechanism of their propaganda and decades, if not centuries, of demonization of us, the bad. I am talking about the battle for the minds of Ukrainians. To call a victory that half of Ukrainians practically hates us until the loss of common sense and the instinct of self-preservation, the language does not turn. Rather, we did not let ourselves be defeated and squeezed out everything possible from the situation. Until. Next - we'll see.
  11. komrad.klim
    komrad.klim 20 May 2014 09: 49
    0
    We ourselves almost overslept the expansion of the hostile ideology of money-grubbing and debauchery! And for a certain time, the consequences of this slumber of Russia will affect the state of society.
    In any case, we specifically realized (though not all) that the bourgeoisie is not our PARTNERS, that the bourgeois money-grubbing ideology and its well-being are built on a freebie, built on someone else's hump!
    1. Black
      Black 20 May 2014 10: 05
      +2
      Quote: komrad.klim
      We ourselves almost overslept the expansion of the hostile ideology of money-grubbing and debauchery!


      Oh, didn't you oversleep? This disease has come for a long time. And if "debauchery" is treated rather quickly, then the virus of the "golden calf" cannot be removed.
  12. Kuvabatake
    Kuvabatake 20 May 2014 09: 55
    +1
    The French, as always. Actively fighting the enemy on the bed of love ...
  13. sibiriak38
    sibiriak38 20 May 2014 10: 02
    +3
    Who will win? Who will win? ... Who will fight will win.
    And what is happening in Ukraine now is called porn, as in famous German films with das ist fanntastist !!!! They go one after another, dances lead - Nashi ..., fascists ..., separatists ..., fagots ... - no actions.
    In my opinion, no one wants to win, because "victory" in the current state of Ukraine is worse than the most fierce defeat. Let the Russians and Americans bash their foreheads, while the dill in their own country will wait on the sidelines and then lie under the winner. Here's the deal.
  14. Manul49
    Manul49 20 May 2014 11: 05
    +1
    Quote: cerbuk6155
    Yes, we slept for 23 years. But they woke up nothing and saw the very inside of Ukraine, and it turned out that we had to give a laxative in order to cleanse, cleanse and cleanse of this manure. soldier


    This is very Russian. Ilya Muromets 33 years I was sitting on the stove ... And what happened then, we all know from childhood by the past.
  15. waisson
    waisson 20 May 2014 11: 26
    +1
    SIGNIFICANTLY NOT "Fascists", "terrorists", Americans, but Ukraine itself will be the loser
  16. waisson
    waisson 20 May 2014 11: 27
    +3
    ----------------- hi
    1. The point
      The point 20 May 2014 15: 47
      0
      only patla and beards were left to grow. laughing
  17. kodxnumx
    kodxnumx 20 May 2014 12: 51
    +2
    That's when there will not be in the cradle of Russian tselevizatsii in Kiev, not the National Guard, not the right sector, not the party of freedom, when all this evil spirits will be in prison or rot in the ground then this is a victory, but the fact that Russia won from infa has not yet hot is not cold!
  18. smersh 34
    smersh 34 20 May 2014 13: 45
    +1
    Pandera Chukhevych heroes to the people! They are UKRA - fucked with the garden!
  19. Altona
    Altona 20 May 2014 14: 39
    0
    Gene memory won, I think ...
  20. chelovektapok
    chelovektapok 20 May 2014 14: 41
    +2
    For years to come. There will be a "wild field" in Ukraine. As in dill's favorite "heroic" 17th century. Derzhava, "scho ne vmerla shche" - since the 90s she plunged into that Middle Ages with lust. It is not profitable for Russia, not the EU, with mattress mats to take on the problems of "specific hetmantries". The supporters of the laws of Khortitsi who have grown Oseledtsi will, as then, be hired for menace to one or the other. As a result, a slogan will be put forward (already has a place to be). Since you don’t take us to your place, don’t keep us, no gas, no $ (the ram Obama has a year left, the economic leadership of the EU will be re-elected on Sunday). Those who want to pay for idleness on the Nazi shiznyake, too. Znachitsa "we will cut everyone until we accept to ourselves" - Rummage the descendants of the King of Poland and Lithuania Sigismund in the archives (and not in the Hrushevsky garbage can). Putin is not Catherine II. Freebies ne bude again. Oxtis, Orthodox! Decide for yourself what is more important to you, brother Slavs, or cookies from Indian fighters from the Maidan. Blinn .. Well, the Prosperity of the State and the Security of Citizens (giant) do not fall from the sky. That is why the Tribe should work in the STATE! Allied with brothers!
  21. Leshka
    Leshka 20 May 2014 15: 33
    0
    at least someone argues more or less soberly
  22. wasjasibirjac
    wasjasibirjac 20 May 2014 18: 12
    0
    I am afraid that no one will win victory in this battlefield, neither OURS, nor OURS. Ukraine can turn into a long-lived Wild Field, from which gangs will break out both east and west, the most prudent will move to a permanent residence in Russia and the West, extremists will remain who, having tasted the blood, will not want to just work. and we don’t have enough forces to extinguish a fire
  23. APASUS
    APASUS 20 May 2014 19: 49
    0
    There is no real opportunity to answer this question right now.
    Yes, our analysts at this point in time simply defeated the Americans who paid $ 5 billion for separating Crimea from Ukraine. But what's next?
    And then the civil war in which Russia can climb ................ what is the solution? and there are several of them.
    What are the steps the authorities in Russia will take?
  24. Magic archer
    Magic archer 20 May 2014 20: 08
    +1
    The funny thing is that the upcoming elections are for us nothing more than a glimpse of the future enemy. Not one worthy .... It seems that the future of Ukraine looks like a terrible fairy tale, evil and hopeless ...
  25. phantom359
    phantom359 20 May 2014 21: 08
    -1
    A little off topic. You advertise a tank game here. He played and thought - which is responsible for the physics of the battle and the performance characteristics of tanks. He needs to collect Tetris, and not play tanks. This body probably does not care about real TTX. Full woodpecker. I'm sorry to have spent my time.
  26. Zeev
    Zeev 21 May 2014 06: 37
    -1
    Who will win, who will win ... The Ukrainian people will win, or rather, have already won, not surrendering "at the mercy of their big brother." The Russians like it, the Russians do not like it, but the Kremlin has missed another country from the former USSR from under its influence.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. habalog
      habalog 21 May 2014 08: 28
      0
      Quote: Zeev
      The Ukrainian people will win, or rather already won


      Yes, the Slavs are invincible. Even for common sense. Even he will retreat opposing himself to us.

      Quote: Zeev
      but the Kremlin missed another country from the former USSR.


      The inhabitants of Ukraine are not mongrels, so that someone would keep them on a leash. If they independently and of their own free will "surrender" - that is their business. They have to live with it.

      Quote: Zeev
      Who will win, who will win

      while the distorted one wins.
    3. phantom359
      phantom359 21 May 2014 22: 26
      -1
      Yeah . The fluid is really bad. Then give all the lands to the Arabs. that you occupied and let the Americans go to hell with my land.
  27. Chelyabinsk
    Chelyabinsk 21 May 2014 07: 46
    0
    we already have experience in victory on fascism, and you won’t drink the experience, as the saying goes, so the answer is obvious
  28. MMX
    MMX 21 May 2014 08: 25
    0
    Quote: Zeev
    Who will win, who will win ... The Ukrainian people will win, or rather, have already won, not surrendering "at the mercy of their big brother." The Russians like it, the Russians do not like it, but the Kremlin has missed another country from the former USSR from under its influence.


    Well, if the winner is the subject who changed one cartridge for another, then undoubtedly yes, you are right, "the Ukrainians, the Ukrainian people won." Now it is already de jure that what was de facto in Ukraine after the collapse of the USSR is being recorded. Personally, it seems to me that the forces that want to reduce Moscow's sphere of influence are winning (at least for now). Ukraine is just a pawn in someone else's game. The forces opposing us are again at war with someone else's hands and the minimum goal has been achieved: two close peoples pitted against each other. A lot can be said about the reasons, but this will not change the situation today. Russia and Ukraine are at enmity. Plus, as a bonus, unstable territory near the borders of the Russian Federation (again, good). The struggle is going on, as they say, on our territory, if the opposing forces yield to us in the end, they will not lose much (they did not feel bad without Ukraine). But we are forced to play from defense and react to the actions of the enemy.
  29. Zeev
    Zeev 2 June 2014 06: 57
    +1
    Quote: phantom359
    Yeah . The fluid is really bad. Then give all the lands to the Arabs. that you occupied and let the Americans go to hell with my land.

    What to call you? Crest? Or how popular among Russian Internet trolls is kakl? If you are Ukrainian (I mean your country, not your nationality), then in your land now it’s not the Americans, but the Russians who are starting a war. And not the Americans, but the Russians occupied Crimea. It’s not the Americans, but the Russians who kidnap people, and they beat the ribbon and the Ukrainian language for the black-and-white blakitna. And not Americans, but Russians pour tons of shit on your country from TV screens and media pages.
    CYSES. And since you care so much for the Arab lands, then invite the same Arabs to return to the descendants of 800 thousand Jews expelled from the Arab countries the land stolen from them - fields, gardens, houses, factories, shops. This is so small, with an area of ​​only 4 times that of Israel with Judea, Samaria, the Gaza Strip and the Golan Heights combined. Moreover, I propose to start the conversation with Assad, whose palace near Mount Kasyun near Damascus stands on the land purchased by the Jewish National Fund for donations from Jews of Ukraine, Lithuania, Belarus, Poland, Galicia, who put their pennies in piggy banks in order to buy wastelands from Turkish landowners.