Military Review

Decimation in Ukrainian

140
Decimation in Ukrainian



Decimation (from the Latin. Decimatio, from decimus - (every) tenth) - the penalty of every tenth by lot, the highest measure of disciplinary punishment in the Roman army.

Decimation was practiced from legendary times, although on the whole it was rarely used, but it has reached our days. It was widely used by Genghis Khan, establishing iron discipline, however, based on fear. Each Horde knew he would run one — a dozen would be executed, a dozen would run — a hundred would be executed ... Decimation was also used during the civil war in Russia. But it is difficult to imagine that this is possible in the twenty-first century, today, almost in the center of Europe!

A spokesman for the people's mayor of Slavyansk Vyacheslav Ponomarev, Stella Khorosheva, said that 10 Ukrainian soldiers were shot by the National Guard under Ukraine after they expressed their desire to join the militia!

According to Lev Vershinin, published on the Russian Spring website, this is true: “Unfortunately, it is. The most seriousness is that no one went anywhere. Our 53 just refused to shoot at the Donetsk, they were disarmed. Some animal from the Maidan ordered to shoot every tenth. They called to Kiev, but not to us, but to their own, or Parubiyu, or Avakov, I don’t know, from there came the order of “every fifth”. The order is executed natsgadami. 3 recruit, one lieutenant, the other reservists. We have already been informed after all, ordered to issue as deserters. Koval is furious, screaming at someone, now drunk in smoke. ”

A terrible madness, primarily because it has no practical meaning for the junta. On the contrary, they, thus, will not rally the army. Officers and soldiers will imitate a stormy activity, firing anywhere, but at the first opportunity one at a time, with detachments, platoons, parts, will leave the front, or even be turned weapon against the Nazis. That is, the result will be exactly the opposite.

A doubt creeps in: does the junta work for Russia? They do everything to bring their end. All combat-ready parts and existing weapons transferred to the East. The junta is doing everything to be hated not only by residents of the East, but also by the perpetrators of its criminal orders and the relatives of the perpetrators.

Now here's the decimation! Stories Known centesimation - the penalty of every hundredth person and vice-stimulation - the penalty of every twentieth by lot. But the names of the execution of every fifth I personally did not find!
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  1. silberwolf88
    silberwolf88 19 May 2014 08: 58
    +29
    Knowing the Nazis ... I admit that this is possible.
    I would like to have more reliable information ... the civil war is full of all kinds of information provocations and lies.
    1. domokl
      domokl 19 May 2014 09: 07
      +54
      You won’t ever get accurate information. It’s just that even if such burials are found, each side will blame the enemy. It’s a kind of Novokhatinsky business. Another thing is talk among the army and the National Guard. This is where the truth will come up very soon.
      1. Flooding
        Flooding 19 May 2014 09: 25
        +21
        Quote: domokl
        You will never get accurate information. It’s easy, even if such burials are found, each side will blame the enemy

        Lev Vershinin refers to data from his informant. With confidence we can assume that this is one of the current officers Ukrainian. army or special services.
        The testimony of such a witness at the upcoming tribunal will be taken into account.
        1. domokl
          domokl 19 May 2014 09: 31
          +6
          Quote: Flood
          Lev Vershinin refers to data from his informant.

          I just remembered from my youth. Once we worked in about the same conditions. And we had the so-called OAGs ... They also listened to informants. But the price of such reports was very often zero ... The enemy knows the tactics of actions very well and there are no laymen working there either.
          1. Flooding
            Flooding 19 May 2014 09: 50
            +4
            Quote: domokl
            They also listened to informants. Only here the price of such messages was very often zero

            Probably, the insurance company will not insure against this.
            Nevertheless, the practice does not stop and is unlikely to be stopped when.
            It all depends on the level of access and trust.
            1. CALL.
              CALL. 19 May 2014 12: 38
              +5
              That is, the result will be exactly the opposite.


              1. cosmos111
                cosmos111 19 May 2014 14: 04
                -34%
                news of the hour:
                Putin ordered the withdrawal of troops from areas bordering Ukraine.
                Russian President Vladimir Putin gave the command to Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu to return to the places of permanent deployment troops participating in exercises in areas bordering Ukraine, the Kremlin’s press service reports.

                http://top.rbc.ru/politics/19/05/2014/924556.shtml

                all Putin has completely leaked the South-East, now the junta has untied "HANDS" ...
                and against the forces in Slavyansk, all types of weapons will be used (Grads, attack aircraft, etc.)))))
                1. starik80
                  starik80 19 May 2014 14: 08
                  +9
                  Why keep them there? Within 24 hours, you can create exactly this grouping.
                  In places of permanent deployment, life is better, and therefore the combat effectiveness of the troops.
                2. Russ69
                  Russ69 19 May 2014 14: 21
                  +18
                  Quote: cosmos111
                  all Putin has completely leaked the South-East, now the junta has untied "HANDS" ...
                  and against the forces in Slavyansk, all types of weapons will be used (Grads, attack aircraft, etc.)))))

                  Stop yelling; "Help, GDP has leaked everything!"
                  They took me away, let me down, it goes on all the time, it doesn't take long to let me down. And no one has canceled the Aviadars exercises in the Voronezh region.
                  The DPR must for the time being themselves, at least some sort of order and take power. And then I listen to the radio, there are a lot of questions. In some city, they changed the mayor to their representative. The dismissed mayor, hired gopniks, they shooed the cops who "went over" to the side of the people. And again he took his place and drives everyone to the upcoming elections. And the newly appointed, took to the hospital and withdrew.
                  A rally should be held in Mariupol, to which Akhmetka was driving people and collecting signatures for the introduction of troops, for order. And the people justify everything so that they need to feed their families.
                  First, the majority on the spot should understand what they need, and not stupidly wait for the GDP to enter the troops and destroy everything ...
                  1. igor_m_p
                    igor_m_p 20 May 2014 02: 43
                    +2
                    Quote: Russ69
                    Stop yelling; "Help, GDP has leaked everything!"

                    That's it, that's right. From Moscow to Kamchatka fly 8-9 hours. How much time will it take there to transfer airborne units closest to Ukraine to the Ukrainian border, or even beyond it?
                    But keeping the contingent in constant combat readiness at the borders does not make much sense. Moreover, the maintenance technique is required for the personnel to rest, and so on ...
                    So there’s nothing to breed a panic ...
                3. Luga
                  Luga 19 May 2014 14: 32
                  +15
                  Quote: cosmos111
                  all Putin has completely leaked the South-East, now the junta has untied "HANDS" ...

                  That again "traitors are in power," "Putin chickened out", etc.? For a long time I haven't heard such notes on VO, it turns out, it starts again smile
                  In fact, our Western partners are just waiting for Putin to lose his nerve and give an order according to which the Slavs will kill each other in thousands and almost for free. Cities will collapse, factories will explode, but there are still nuclear power plants ... Calculate how much damage the economy of Russia, Donetsk and Lugansk may suffer as a result of such an order? And the possible gain is the receipt of this same desert as part of the territory that will have to be restored from scratch and complete international political isolation.
                  And yet - not the army that can sit in trenches for years is effective, but the one that is at the right time in the right place.
                  In short, your comment seemed unreasonably harsh and unfounded wink
                4. Bosk
                  Bosk 19 May 2014 21: 19
                  +5
                  Why did it immediately LEAVE?, And secondly, where did you get the idea that Russia in the South-East is in business?, It seems to me that Russia is there very much even "in business", just America and Europe and also Kiev "rulers" need not some kind of hidden support, they just really need Russia's military intervention, and after the annexation of Crimea, they only do how they push Russia to this, but why do they need it ... here it is already possible to discuss.
                5. Nick
                  Nick 21 May 2014 19: 55
                  +1
                  Quote: cosmos111
                  all Putin has completely leaked the South-East, now the junta has untied "HANDS" ...

                  Fucking analyst of you turned out ...
              2. old man 72
                old man 72 22 May 2014 00: 01
                0
                Well done Cossack !!! All accurately and correctly laid out on shelves !!! And the Ukrainian maydanutny zhurnoshlyuhah will be rewarded in full! As they say Az I will repay !!!
              3. old man 72
                old man 72 22 May 2014 00: 01
                0
                Well done Cossack !!! All accurately and correctly laid out on shelves !!! And the Ukrainian maydanutny zhurnoshlyuhah will be rewarded in full! As they say Az I will repay !!!
          2. older
            older 19 May 2014 11: 01
            +3
            In that state, in which the army of dill is now shooting, it’s quite normal. Otherwise, they’ll turn around, drop their weapons and go home. It seems to me that soon we will read about detachments ...
            1. Moore
              Moore 19 May 2014 11: 59
              +9
              What is this, I wonder, is this "normality" manifested?
              Is it that even without the appearance of a simplified court procedure (such as a military field court), ten people were killed?
              This is no longer the state of Ukraine, in which no one has yet canceled Article 111 of the Criminal Code (there, by the way, from 10 to 15 - without a "tower") - this is a swarm of undead, where each t-var fancies himself the arbiter of other people's destinies.
            2. Penzyac
              Penzyac 19 May 2014 13: 57
              +2
              Quote: older
              In that state, in which the army of dill is now shooting, it’s quite normal. Otherwise, they’ll turn around, drop their weapons and go home. It seems to me that soon we will read about detachments ...

              We are already reading about detachments, but this means that most likely now the weapons are no longer thrown, but turned. When? Wait and see.
        2. WKS
          WKS 19 May 2014 11: 04
          +9
          Quote: Flood
          The testimony of such a witness at the upcoming tribunal will be taken into account.

          As for the future tribunal - I doubt it. In 2008, many foreshadowed the tribunal for Sukashvili, and he jumps like a sinless puppy and just spits.
          1. Nonik
            Nonik 19 May 2014 14: 54
            +4
            Quote: wks
            As for the future tribunal - I doubt it. In 2008, many foreshadowed the tribunal for Sukashvili, and he jumps like a sinless puppy and just spits.
            Because they cover "from the very top" behind the "big puddle".
        3. Akvadra
          Akvadra 19 May 2014 14: 27
          +1
          Trotsky practiced decimation in the Red Army. Leva ended badly ...
          1. acute
            acute 19 May 2014 15: 02
            +1
            do not write nonsense, but send a link. Break from someone else's words
            1. Bayonet
              Bayonet 19 May 2014 22: 12
              +1
              Quote: akut
              Break from someone else's words

              Decimation was also used in modern times. So, this measure was contained in the Russian criminal law from 1701 to 1868. In the Article of 1715, decimation was mentioned 7 times. During the Civil War in Russia, some units of the Red Army were decimated (for example, in 1918 near Sviyazhsk, on the Khabarovsk Front on December 26, 1921 and January 5, 1922). In Finland, during the civil war in early 1918, there was a case of decimation applied to captive Red Guards by the White Finns who shot all the commanders and every fifth ordinary soldier (this case is known as the “Khuruslahti lottery”, by the name of the river on which ice was executed)
              1. acute
                acute 20 May 2014 12: 27
                0
                You write about the shooting of prisoners and the shooting of cowards (completely different things), you can punish (shoot) deserters, or you can shoot every 10, say from the retreating part. These are different things but you don’t indicate the source. Like all in one pile
      2. kotvov
        kotvov 19 May 2014 09: 39
        +2
        you probably wanted to say Novokatyn affair. and Khatyn, everything is known.
      3. Lelek
        Lelek 19 May 2014 10: 55
        +4
        Well, yes, it’s like they shot themselves in the heart and then in the head, dug a hole and buried themselves. And what, cases like those in modern Ukraine, like a flea on a bitch. bully
      4. WKS
        WKS 19 May 2014 11: 16
        0
        Quote: domokl
        You will never get accurate information.

        To the civilian Leiba Bronstein (Trotsky) - then Glavvoenmor massively practiced this and achieved in the parts of the Red Army a sharp increase in discipline and order. The result of which was a turning point in the confrontation with the troops of Yudenich. And this practice is still being studied at military academies.
        1. 225chay
          225chay 19 May 2014 13: 14
          +1
          Quote: wks
          To the civilian Leiba Bronstein (Trotsky) - then Glavvoenmor massively practiced this and achieved in the parts of the Red Army a sharp increase in discipline and order. The result of which was a turning point in the confrontation with the troops of Yudenich. And this practice is still being studied at military academies.

          I don’t understand, are you proud of this, or are you giving an example as the "heroism" of Bronstein-Trotsky?
          1. WKS
            WKS 20 May 2014 11: 31
            +1
            Quote: 225chay
            I don’t understand, are you proud of this, or are you giving an example as the "heroism" of Bronstein-Trotsky?

            It’s impossible to be proud of because it is disgusting. These orders of Trotsky are part of History. I have given these facts in the context of the article published above. Do you really prefer to keep silent about historical events that are unpleasant for you?
        2. Penzyac
          Penzyac 19 May 2014 14: 10
          +3
          Quote: wks
          Quote: domokl
          You will never get accurate information.

          To the civilian Leiba Bronstein (Trotsky) - then Glavvoenmor massively practiced this and achieved in the parts of the Red Army a sharp increase in discipline and order. The result of which was a turning point in the confrontation with the troops of Yudenich. And this practice is still being studied at military academies.

          The opposite side also practiced the same thing, so the turning point occurred because the soldiers made their choice, and not because of cruelty, both sides were cruel. Now the choice is even simpler, since Russian cruelties are not cultivated, unlike Svidomo.
      5. bif
        bif 19 May 2014 11: 31
        +3
        Quote: domokl
        You will never get accurate information.

        Here you can argue ... When the Ukrainian bacchanalia ends, with a great desire to find out the truth - Parubiy, Avakov and other bloodsuckers (I would have taken the Ambassador of the State) are taken and in the basement on Lubyanka (figuratively speaking), EVERYTHING is recognized in a couple of days !!! Another thing is that no one will officially announce these data and they do not have a legal force.
      6. xenod55
        xenod55 19 May 2014 12: 06
        +4
        Probably have to look for burials not only during WWII. The other day, Natsik shot 10 Ukrainian soldiers trying to go over to the side of the militias.
        “Soldiers of one of the units of the National Guard, stationed in Kramatorsk, shot 10 conscripts for refusing to fight against their fellow citizens,” a representative of the self-defense headquarters told Interfax.
        According to him, the soldier was killed on the territory of a military unit. He claims that “the guys were put against the wall right on the territory of the unit and opened fire on them”, and now “their bodies are being buried on the outskirts of Kramatorsk”.
        Earlier, the people's mayor of Slavyansk, Vyacheslav Ponomaryov, spoke about the execution of soldiers by fighters of the National Guard. He called the figure - 7 dead.
        Read more on NTV.Ru: http://www.ntv.ru/novosti/975496/#ixzz3299siAGd
        1. Penzyac
          Penzyac 19 May 2014 14: 13
          +1
          Quote: xenod55
          Probably have to look for burials not only during WWII. The other day, Natsik shot 10 Ukrainian soldiers trying to go over to the side of the militias.
          ...

          Any pathologist can easily determine whether people died in battle or were shot.
          1. psg72
            psg72 19 May 2014 18: 07
            +2
            The junta is most likely waiting for the arrival of the next "biden and co", and these burials will be shown as proof of the inhumanity of the army of the southeast. As it was already in Yugoslavia. And all the Euros will keep up and start howling all over the world. We urgently need proof with instant distribution in all media.
      7. Alekseev
        Alekseev 19 May 2014 16: 57
        +2
        Quote: domokl
        the truth will definitely come up very soon.

        Indeed, you can’t hide the sew in the bag, all the more so.
        And for the military, it should be a lesson: we must "not refuse to shoot at the Donetsk men", but first shoot at the "guards". Then it is already "spokiino" to move, or go where it is necessary ...
      8. juneart
        juneart 19 May 2014 17: 11
        +2
        You are absolutely right. If more than ONE person knows something, then sooner or later many will find out.
      9. igor_m_p
        igor_m_p 20 May 2014 02: 37
        0
        Quote: domokl
        You will never get accurate information. It’s easy, even if such burials are found, each side will blame the enemy

        In our time, anything is possible. As practice shows, such "heroes" as the National Guardsmen and other right-wing people are very fond of capturing their "exploits" in photos and videos, and given that almost everyone now has a video / camera in their pocket (a smartphone), it is likely that this or some similar incident filmed is far from zero. Well, and it is far from zero probability that such a video (or photo) will fall into the hands of those who are interested in conducting an investigation.
        So - anything is possible.
      10. OTTO
        OTTO 21 May 2014 20: 59
        0
        Quote: domokl
        Simply, even when such burials are found, each side will blame the enemy.

        And then Western common people will "prove" Putin's FSB is to blame for everything.
    2. yushch
      yushch 19 May 2014 11: 48
      +6
      In this situation, only one thing is surprising: why, in this case, their colleagues did not stand up for the executed. They should understand that with this practice, tomorrow someone else will be put into expense for another violation ?? Either their commanders get the hell out of orders, or they show such an idiotic initiative. Go-otism of the highest standard.
  2. Name
    Name 19 May 2014 09: 00
    +14
    If you can shoot yourself: in the APU there are only sheep in the DIRECT sense.
    1. domokl
      domokl 19 May 2014 09: 12
      +10
      That's the problem that they are shooting new recruits. This is about the same strategy as hitting grandfathers on young people in peacetime ... Youngsters have not made friends alone yet, and grandfathers are already a monolith.
      Another thing is that such actions will push the soldier to active desertion already in battle ...
      1. Name
        Name 19 May 2014 10: 31
        +6
        Quote: domokl
        That's the problem that they are shooting new recruits. This is about the same strategy as hitting grandfathers on young people in peacetime ... Youngsters have not made friends alone yet, and grandfathers are already a monolith.

        So I say - the sheep were collected from the West of the Aene, without mind and education.
        1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Penzyac
        Penzyac 19 May 2014 14: 16
        0
        Quote: domokl
        That's the problem that they are shooting new recruits. This is about the same strategy as hitting grandfathers on young people in peacetime ... Youngsters have not made friends alone yet, and grandfathers are already a monolith.
        Another thing is that such actions will push the soldier to active desertion already in battle ...

        Yes, and shoot at the hated offenders during the battle is much easier, then go figure out whose bullet killed them.
        And the "grandfathers" are far from being a monolith, they have their own grievances.
    2. Riperbahn
      Riperbahn 19 May 2014 09: 33
      +8
      IMHO, they are refused, they simply did not imagine what consequences their failure would entail. Well, a modern person cannot, even with brainwashed, expect such savagery and abomination :(
    3. Riperbahn
      Riperbahn 19 May 2014 09: 35
      +12
      I feel sorry for them terribly - because they were the best people in the ranks of the Sun junta. People who have not lost their conscience. The Kingdom of heaven...
  3. papont64
    papont64 19 May 2014 09: 01
    +3
    Here are the bitch. Well, they don’t want to fight for the junta. am
  4. siberalt
    siberalt 19 May 2014 09: 02
    +9
    And here is Genghis Khan - is it not clear? Again some zapadenskie you * sulfur invented by the Germans in the 18th century.
    And in the Roman Empire, decimation was carried out in the troops consisting of other recruited peoples. So it turns out that the Kiev junta "decimates" its people, or does not consider them as such.
    1. copper49
      copper49 19 May 2014 10: 07
      +4
      Decimation was used in the Red Army in the Civil, and among the whites too. But Who and How. An example from Chapaev: the squadron mutinied, and during the battle, when they received the order to attack. (This very "corrected" scene is in the film). Chapaev only with his orderly rode into the squadron, lined up in one line, explained WHAT they had done, and personally shot every tenth. Petka reloaded the revolvers. And then he led them on the attack! Ahead of all. And nobody thought of shooting him in the back. This was the authority of this man. An example is not for the current war in Ukraine, and not for the Kiev scum.
      1. ar-ren
        ar-ren 19 May 2014 11: 52
        -6
        Quote: copper49
        Decimation was used in the Red Army in the Civil


        And in the Great Patriotic War it was also used. At least in my memoirs about Zhukov I met this. At least among pilots.
        1. northern
          northern 19 May 2014 18: 48
          +1
          Cite in detail about the decimation of pilots precisely from Zhukov’s memoirs. Otherwise, you are Speedinfo.
        2. Alekseev
          Alekseev 19 May 2014 19: 13
          +2
          Quote: ar-ren
          in my memoirs about Zhukov I met this.

          This is in whose memoirs?
          Read the original sources, not the shitty memoirists.
          The Bolsheviks were big lovers legal form and in order to shoot someone there were tribunals in every division and above. Tribunal, without any lynching. Only if they could sew someone in a battle, and even then, they were silent, because it was possible to incur a trial and become guilty from a "hero". There is no time to shoot there, and if it is unfair, then it is extremely dangerous.
          As for Zhukov personally, his response to such accusations is indicative.
          At a meeting of the plenum of the Presidium of the Central Committee of the CPSU on June 22, 1957, members of the "anti-party group" indicted G.K. Zhukov in participating in mass repression in the army. In particular, Kaganovich said that Zhukov’s signatures can also be found on the “execution documents”, to which he, as always, sharply and very confidently answered: “Look, you won’t find it!”
          I think that G.K.Zhukov was sure that he was not involved specifically to illegal repression in the sun, including during the Second World War.
          1. northern
            northern 19 May 2014 19: 20
            +1
            It seems to me that this wise guy except Rezun did not read anything
            1. podpolkovnik
              podpolkovnik 19 May 2014 20: 07
              0
              Quote: north
              It seems to me that this wise guy except Rezun did not read anything

              This "smart guy" has already flashed his "knowledge" several times here ....
              1. northern
                northern 19 May 2014 20: 28
                +1
                Well, already gouging on gray epaulettes
        3. podpolkovnik
          podpolkovnik 19 May 2014 20: 05
          +2
          Quote: ar-ren
          Quote: copper49
          Decimation was used in the Red Army in the Civil


          And in the Great Patriotic War it was also used. At least in my memoirs about Zhukov I met this. At least among pilots.

          In whose memoirs? Suvorova - Rezuna, probably?
      2. lukke
        lukke 19 May 2014 12: 00
        +8
        Chapaev only with his orderly jumped into the squadron, built in one line, explained what they had done, and personally shot every tenth. Petka reloaded guns.
        Chapaev’s contemporaries and archival docks testify that Chapaev very rarely climbed a horse because of his many wounds in World War I (believe in films less), and moved in a passenger car. In general, his division was the most motorized in the Red Army at that moment, plus a large number of artillery (and even a couple of aircraft). He did not graduate from the Red Army Academy (although he was called up to study), but at that time he understood the role of technology from the inside and experience (in contrast to Budyonny, for example). And I can hardly imagine - the chief of communications of the Isaev brigade, Peter reloading Nagan - I had to call Anka and Maxim - faster, the case would advance and the attack would begin earlier)
        1. copper49
          copper49 19 May 2014 15: 44
          +2
          The story of that fight was told by one of the authors of the film, Vasiliev, I read it in the old magazine "Cinema Art". He also said something like the following: “If we showed in the film how it was; Chapaev walks along the line, shooting and after every 7 shots he throws a revolver to Petka with the words“ Reload ”, and then leads the fighters into the attack, he would look like a superman And we wanted to show it to our own among our own. " Probably, as the norm, Chapaev really preferred a car, but in a field offensive battle with roads it did not matter even then, and even ravines there, streams and so on. As with communications, "walkie-talkies" had not yet entered the spacecraft. I also had to top. War, you know. And what is the "most motorized division" in a spacecraft? A dozen cars? The horse was the main pull. Look at the chronicle of the First World War - the artillery of all countries is all horse-drawn, I saw French heavy guns and ox-drawn. Even in World War II, the most motorized German one had a million horses in its composition, and their divisional guns were often horse-drawn (see the chronicle more closely).
          1. lukke
            lukke 19 May 2014 16: 36
            +1
            The story of that battle was told by one of film authors
            here I am above and say less believe in films) do not be offended)
            and the example that Vasily Ivanovich strengthened his division (even out of staff) with equipment, I led to the fact that the division commander was not such a "boot" as he was presented in the Soviet press. And to shoot every tenth in the squadron (about 150 sabers) during the offensive - ?! could be limited to one squadron commander, or rather simply remove him, remove him from office. I don’t believe in this "episode" with Vasily Ivanovich.
          2. The comment was deleted.
      3. The comment was deleted.
  5. Russian jacket
    Russian jacket 19 May 2014 09: 03
    +3
    Sagging, Putin again. And he controls the right-wingers ... In business. guys, you yourself didn’t try to figure out where to go7 laughing
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  6. Good cat
    Good cat 19 May 2014 09: 05
    +6
    Human stupidity is unlimited, and in banderlog it borders on bloodthirstiness, this is the diagnosis ..
    1. avt
      avt 19 May 2014 09: 18
      +7
      Quote: Good cat
      Human stupidity is unlimited, and in banderlog it borders on bloodthirstiness, this is the diagnosis ..

      Nevertheless, discipline in wartime conditions, and even more so during the civil war, is supported precisely by such measures. In the Soviet Criminal Code there was a part relating to military personnel, so in wartime the tribunal should not give jam on its basis, well, what’s during the civil war, formalities are dispensed with, well, this is only known to the current generation, relaxed by stories about human rights.
      Quote: name
      If you can shoot yourself: in the APU there are only sheep in the DIRECT sense.

      But this is really amazing. request Oh..great softness, if true! 50 people with weapons, having specific intentions to fight against the Nazis, gave themselves to disarm? what And then what did they wait then ?? Free trips to the Crimea! ????
      1. Flooding
        Flooding 19 May 2014 09: 33
        +3
        Quote: avt
        Nevertheless, discipline in wartime conditions, and even more so during the civil war, is supported by such measures

        An example, please. Which ones exactly? Without trial and investigation? It also happened. But a host of other questions arise. Who is authorized to make such a decision? Should punishment be determined according to the degree of guilt? And certainly decimation cannot be called an adequate punishment. And even surpass at the same time even the bloody Ancient Rome, where every tenth was executed.
        I dare to recall that it was precisely by such measures that Mark Licinius Crassus led his decaying army to unquestioning submission during the suppression of the uprising led by Spartacus.
        1. avt
          avt 19 May 2014 10: 20
          +4
          Quote: Flood
          An example, please. Which ones exactly? Without trial and investigation?

          Reluctance to go into a bookcase and look for the memoirs of one military leader, take my word for it. He began his recollections with the revolutionary troika in which he fell - a security officer, a commissar and a higher, military commander, for failure to comply with an order during the first assault on Pericopus. He got off with a warning, according to him, the commissar said that he was lucky - he was actually going to be shot, but after the warning of such a troika, again from the words of the memoirist, there was a shooting, asserted by the same composition. So the Civil Court was short and quite specific.
          Quote: Flood
          But a host of other questions arise. Who is authorized to make such a decision? Should punishment be determined according to the degree of guilt? And certainly decimation cannot be called an adequate punishment.

          request "Revolutionary expediency", with it the decision is made by the one who uses it and leave the talk about legality to the staff "human rights activists". In the absence of the state as an institution, or its significant weakening, the rule of Mao Zedong is in effect - the Rifle gives rise to power. "All. And only the losing side falls under the" world tribunal ". It has always been and will be in History, with a strong, all the more victorious , will negotiate as an equal. The weak will be kicked and killed - the latest example is Serbia and its military leadership, which lost the Civil War in Yugoslavia.
          1. Flooding
            Flooding 19 May 2014 10: 38
            0
            Quote: avt
            Reluctance to climb into a bookcase and look for memoirs of one military commander, take a word. He began his recollections with the revision which he got into - a Chekist, commissar and a higher, military commander, for not following the order during the first assault on Perikop

            I see inconsistency in your arguments.
            Revolutions were created according to orders of government bodies. This time.
            They were empowered. These are two.
            Not comparable things with modern realities in Ukraine.
            1. avt
              avt 19 May 2014 10: 54
              +2
              Quote: Flood
              Revolutions were created according to orders of government bodies. This time.

              Can you tell me when and what "government bodies" of the Bolsheviks during the Civil War were, as they say now, "legitimate"? The guys raised power, like Napoleon, with a bayonet made of mud and appointed themselves on the basis of "revolutionary expediency"
              Quote: Flood
              They were empowered. These are two.

              For the second paragraph, see the answer to paragraph 1.
              Quote: Flood
              Not comparable things with modern realities in Ukraine.

              Absolutely the same, only the scale is not comparable - it was a hundred times tougher in the Civil War. But slowly and surely everything is slipping into Mao's formula - "The rifle gives rise to power", and then there are only two ways - or there will be a figure and a party like Lenin with the Bolsheviks , or a variant of Yugoslavia, maybe even in an extreme, Libyan version.
              1. Flooding
                Flooding 19 May 2014 11: 02
                0
                Quote: avt
                Can you tell me when and what "government bodies" of the Bolsheviks during the Civil War were, as they say now, "legitimate"

                Do not jump from bump to bump. The modern Kiev authorities also do not have full legitimacy. But we are talking about something else, which is inconvenient for you to notice.
                Even the junta did not give any legal authority to the shooting teams.
                1. avt
                  avt 19 May 2014 11: 16
                  +2
                  Quote: Flood
                  But we are talking about something else, which is inconvenient for you to notice.

                  laughing
                  Quote: Flood
                  Revolutions were created according to orders of government bodies.

                  Quote: Flood
                  The modern Kiev authorities also do not have full legitimacy.

                  That is
                  Quote: avt
                  .But slowly and surely everything is sliding into Mao's formula - "The rifle gives rise to power"

                  Quote: Flood
                  Even the junta did not give any legal authority to the shooting teams.

                  But they don’t intend to leave any documents at all - they give out orders on the Internet. That is, the situation is just such that I’m talking about - the complete degradation of the central government with the loss of control and uncertain prospects of the power of those who hold power - they wander around, and therefore they do not want to shine.
                  1. Flooding
                    Flooding 19 May 2014 11: 21
                    +1
                    Quote: avt
                    But they don’t intend to leave any documents at all - they give out orders on the Internet. That is, the situation is just such that I’m talking about - the complete degradation of the central government with the loss of control and uncertain prospects of the power of those who hold power - they wander around, and therefore they do not want to shine.

                    That is, following your own conclusions, a complete discrepancy with the realities of the Civil. Where, on the contrary, power was centralized and strengthened.
                    1. avt
                      avt 19 May 2014 12: 39
                      +1
                      Quote: Flood
                      That is, following your own conclusions, a complete discrepancy with the realities of the Civil.

                      Full compliance.
                      Quote: Flood
                      Where, on the contrary, power was centralized and strengthened.

                      Did you come up with it right away and centralize it? It's just that, in contrast to the Bolsheviks, the Kievites are rather stupid and, like Lenin, hesitate to send telegrams to the localities about the "red terror in response to the white"
                      1. Flooding
                        Flooding 19 May 2014 13: 36
                        0
                        Quote: avt
                        Did you come up with it right away and centralize it? It's just that, in contrast to the Bolsheviks, the Kievites are rather stupid and, like Lenin, hesitate to send telegrams to the localities about the "red terror in response to the white"

                        avt, you are surely an adult. And probably smart. Why argue with the obvious facts? It seems to have thrown a couple of those.
                        Start from the beginning. With driving forces. Who is now deciding destinies in Ukraine? Intoxicated oligarchs, trembling for their power and overworked gains, backed by the opinion of the "international community". Comparable to Civil?
          2. Penzyac
            Penzyac 19 May 2014 14: 33
            +1
            Quote: avt
            ... The weak will be kicked and killed - the last example is Serbia and its military leadership, who lost the Civil War in Yugoslavia.

            One remark: the Serbian leadership lost not the civil war, but foreign intervention and was "judged" by the occupation authorities.
            1. avt
              avt 19 May 2014 15: 09
              0
              Quote: PENZYAC
              One remark: the Serbian leadership did not lose the civil war, but foreign intervention

              I would formulate your idea, well, in terms of our Civil War, so - in the conditions of a civil war based on interethnic confrontation, which is now practically on the territory of the Ukraine 1991 project, the Serbs, unlike the Bolsheviks, were defeated by the Entente.
              Quote: PENZYAC
              and "tried" by the occupation authorities.

              Yes, as I said - "let the loser cry, cursing his fate."
              Quote: Flood
              And probably smart.

              laughing Probably . Not even the right word! I know that I know nothing.
              Quote: Flood
              Who is now deciding destinies in Ukraine? Intoxicated oligarchs, trembling for their power and overworked gains, backed by the opinion of the "international community". Comparable to Civil?

              Well, with whom and for what did the Bolsheviks actually fight, well, when, to the ground, and then "? Not, of course, we can say that the war against the landlords and capitalists is a war with" Russia that we have lost ", just a cliche, and the oligarchs - This is a completely different compote. Does it bother you that as a result of the Bolshevik revolution, the social structure of the state and the attitude of producers to the means of production were radically changed, which was returned back in 1991? That is, the top of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, corrupted and disbelieving in the ideals preached, led by an advanced detachment, selflessly devoted to the cause of the party, according to their oath, the KGB made a counter-revolution, if in Marxist terms. Well, since there is no ideology, and a holy place is never empty, then Terry nationalism was the driving force on the scene, but who and how it plays from the outside is another question, though just as interesting as in previous wars.
              1. Flooding
                Flooding 19 May 2014 17: 17
                0
                Quote: avt
                Well, with whom and for what did the Bolsheviks actually fight, well, when "to the ground, and then"?

                Why write something that many, if not all, know?
                I mean completely different.
                The background for the current confrontation is completely different.
                And such differences are observed in almost everything.
                I honestly suggested that you yourself will come up with.
                Paradoxically, but the junta to some extent can be compared with the forces, or rather the leading elite of the forces, opposing the red. Of course, minus the education received, innate and inculcated nobility and similar "trifles". Direct parallels are very difficult to draw, since it is almost impossible to detect benchmarks with the naked eye.
                What you wrote earlier can be attributed to any civil war, as an act of violence. If at the same time you do not go into details, then by and large all civil wars are similar to each other. Who argues with this?
                But just the details are very different, even these two conflicts are carried to different poles.
      2. radar1967
        radar1967 19 May 2014 09: 38
        +8
        Listen, Good cat, have you ever been bothered by an armed group of people? Or at least shouted out of order? That's it! From here, everything seems different.
        Not sure what the difference is between disobedience and armed resistance?
        Undischarged Ukrainian soldiers will certainly be repaired; they are shocked and unaccustomed to discipline, but they will not forget the Nazis such treatment. Everyone will dream about one thing, to see the back of a fighter of the national guard in the sight of his machine gun. And I’m sure that many of these dreams will come true.
        Moreover, a split in the civil society of Ukraine is inevitable - the Nazi family for the first time to undergo strong pressure.
      3. serega.fedotov
        serega.fedotov 19 May 2014 09: 42
        +2
        Quote: avt
        But this is really amazing. Oh..great softness, if true! 50 people with weapons, having specific intentions to fight against the Nazis, gave themselves to disarm? And then what did they wait then ?? Free trips to the Crimea! ????

        Most likely they were built unarmed and offered to "voluntarily" go to war, and those who did not want to, were shot! Although even rumors about this, the maral spirit will not rise! And the warriors, when the Pravosek people will be soaked nearby, they will think three times to help them, or to shoot back!
      4. mamont5
        mamont5 19 May 2014 10: 04
        +2
        Quote: avt
        If you can shoot yourself: in the APU there are only sheep in the DIRECT sense.

        But this is really amazing. request Oh..great softness, if true! 50 people with weapons, having specific intentions to fight against the Nazis, gave themselves to disarm? what Then what was there to wait for them ?? Free trips to the Crimea! ????


        Yes, they were simply not ready to kill, and the leader, apparently, was not there. In such a situation, someone should start.
      5. wasjasibirjac
        wasjasibirjac 19 May 2014 11: 46
        +1
        Quote: avt
        Oh..great softness, if true! 50 people with weapons, having specific intentions to fight against the Nazis, gave themselves to disarm? what Then what was there to wait for them ??

        Where does the information come from that this unit wanted to "fight against the Nazis"? they simply refused to shoot their fellow citizens. they didn't want to go anywhere, they just decided not to. the guys did not take into account that they were ON WAR, and they were disarmed and destroyed. guys have eternal memory, and to the soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine - soldiers, unite if you don't want to be interrupted one by one by all sorts of pravoseki and NATS-bastards
  7. zao74
    zao74 19 May 2014 09: 06
    +4
    A doubt creeps in: does the junta work for Russia? They do everything to bring their end. All combat-ready parts and existing weapons transferred to the East. The junta is doing everything to be hated not only by residents of the East, but also by the perpetrators of its criminal orders and the relatives of the perpetrators.
    Yeah, all around the "hand of the Kremlin" ...
  8. northern
    northern 19 May 2014 09: 09
    +2
    They just do not have enough detachments for complete happiness.
  9. sledge
    sledge 19 May 2014 09: 10
    +1
    And where does the author get detailed information?
  10. Agat
    Agat 19 May 2014 09: 12
    +1
    Well, what else needs to happen so that the Ukrainian military themselves understand who they are the real enemy! 53 people gave themselves disarm ?! Maybe the following will not allow the fascists to do it!
  11. Ignatius
    Ignatius 19 May 2014 09: 12
    +2
    The guys work on intimidation: beat your own so that strangers are afraid.
    1. kotvov
      kotvov 19 May 2014 09: 43
      +2
      for you they can and, guys, for me fascists.
  12. demotivator
    demotivator 19 May 2014 09: 16
    +3
    The heavy impression of all this. But, refusal to participate in punitive actions is not unique. Although the reasons for this are different. So, mercenaries from the Khazar special battalion "Dnepr", created by the sponsor of Ukrainian neo-Nazis - the Jewish oligarch Igor Kolomoisky, have not received the promised salary for participating in a punitive operation in the South-East for a month now.
    Bearing considerable losses, the mercenaries riot, threatening to leave their positions. This was announced by the platoon commander, whose name was not disclosed. The platoon of the Khazar punishers personally had to receive 40000 UAH for participating in the punitive operation.
    According to available information, Igor Kolomoisky is actively transferring his assets to offshore accounts in Cyprus. After threats from the punishers of the Dnepr battalion, the oligarch prepared a private plane, so that in the event of a sharp deterioration in the situation, he would quickly and unhindered leave the country (according to a number of sources - he is going to leave for Israel that the Jewish criminals do not issue).
    Mercenaries call him "a rat that flees from the ship, throwing its employees in a hot spot." Actually, this is the case when economic methods can stop the war.
  13. yulka2980
    yulka2980 19 May 2014 09: 17
    +2
    They’re already killing their own! What else to expect from the Bandera’s, they did so in the Second World War! fool
  14. Kaigal
    Kaigal 19 May 2014 09: 25
    +1
    Probably soon this whole circus will end, only how much more blood will be shed ....
    The whole rotten essence of the junta in its actions against its own people. When will people see and take her off the throne .....
    1. 97110
      97110 19 May 2014 10: 20
      +1
      I do not think that soon. The horses from the Pind ridge will have enough money for a long time.
      1. Penzyac
        Penzyac 19 May 2014 14: 41
        0
        Quote: 97110
        I do not think that soon. The horses from the Pind ridge will have enough money for a long time.

        All is not enough.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  15. xbhxbr-777
    xbhxbr-777 19 May 2014 09: 29
    +3
    What a HORROR !!!! And what about the authorities, relatives? .... Well, it crosses all borders! Such rulers need to be quartered or torn to pieces!
  16. olf_1959
    olf_1959 19 May 2014 09: 31
    +1
    It is to soon end.
  17. mig31
    mig31 19 May 2014 09: 32
    +7
    I do not understand, those army men who are not banderlogs who have weapons in their hands, turn the trunks of soldiers !!! ...
  18. nikkon09
    nikkon09 19 May 2014 09: 36
    +4
    Well, at such a pace they will quickly conquer the hatred of all of Ukraine, and not just the South-East. Comrades are on the right path. Vali your Bily, every 10, kulaks, middle peasants, but aligarchs come on. Everything was clear with this company, sorry Ukraine ...
  19. Mainbeam
    Mainbeam 19 May 2014 09: 41
    +2
    at the first opportunity, one at a time, by units, platoons, units, they will leave the front,
    and even rotated weapons against the Nazis.

    Amazing cowardice. What do you mean "or even turned"? In the mood of firing squad, the National Guard must be "of course turned" or "already turned." It would be long ago that the Maidan "commissars" were shot and lived freely.

    What a weakness of a national character! Shoot led your comrades. You have a weapon in your hands!
  20. taseka
    taseka 19 May 2014 09: 42
    +2
    The army will not forgive such bastards! Now, as I understand their next step, these are detachments and public executions in the squares, and then they will reach the execution of hostages! Just Fascists!
  21. Uncle lee
    Uncle lee 19 May 2014 09: 42
    +8
    The soldiers have weapons, so wet the right-wingers! Otherwise, they will pour blood all over Ukraine!
  22. The comment was deleted.
  23. pushman
    pushman 19 May 2014 09: 57
    +3
    This is a commercial war. Those who fight for money shot those whom they tried to attract to fight for the idea ... But the idea overthrows fascist decay.
  24. mamont5
    mamont5 19 May 2014 10: 00
    +2
    "Thus, they will not unite the army. Officers and soldiers will imitate violent activity, fire wherever they hit, but at the first opportunity one at a time, in squads, platoons, units, they will leave the front, or even turn their weapons against the Nazis."

    So long ago it would be time for the army team to reflect on whose side they were? And then during the armed coup in Kiev, they carefully distanced themselves from events, such as the army is neutral. And now, through force, but carries out orders, although he does not want to. It's time to be determined!
  25. Not angry
    Not angry 19 May 2014 10: 00
    +3
    From all the information received, a truthful and not very terrible picture is drawn, the population of Ukraine was written off as a expense, they are not needed, they need territory with its minerals, such terrible truth, everything else is particular.
    1. 97110
      97110 19 May 2014 10: 25
      +3
      How does this not need the population? And cannon fodder? Methods of obtaining cannon fodder from a not-so-willing population have been applied. Another thing is that the applicators may not have enough potency. The territory is also needed as a place of deployment of the threat to Russia. Do you think that they want to do farming there right tomorrow?
    2. The comment was deleted.
  26. A1L9E4K9S
    A1L9E4K9S 19 May 2014 10: 16
    +1
    Quote: MainBeam
    What a weakness of a national character! Shoot led your comrades. You have a weapon in your hands!


    Urmrmiya is currently a herd of rams prepared for slaughter, it is weak-willed people who have forgotten how to think with their own heads where they will be sent there. They are consumables, their junta has long been written off, they will suppress resistance to SE, well, not well, God bless him.
  27. Kuvabatake
    Kuvabatake 19 May 2014 10: 24
    +3
    Yes, while you are about to turn the weapon, you will be shot like sheep by Natsik ...
  28. nikrandel
    nikrandel 19 May 2014 10: 25
    +1
    The junta has no army; it does not want to fight against the people. The fighters go to the side of the truth and this is an inevitable process, the end of the junta is inevitable!
    And the National Guard is not an army, but a cowardly bunch of criminals who can only fight against a civilian unarmed population
  29. Gexzloy
    Gexzloy 19 May 2014 10: 28
    +3
    The purpose of the article is to increase the hatred of Russians towards Ukrainians.
    After reading the forum, the feeling that we are ready to kill each other.
    With such articles, the situation will be tense to the limit, and it will rush.
    Then just start and you won’t stop.
    Someone's insidious plan is already close to implementation.
    And the meat here will be not only Ukrainians but the Russian people.
    1. Flooding
      Flooding 19 May 2014 11: 29
      +3
      Quote: GexZloy
      The purpose of the article is to increase the hatred of Russians towards Ukrainians

      For some reason, I thought that this was the goal of the Kiev authorities. But it turns out how.
    2. Penzyac
      Penzyac 19 May 2014 14: 58
      0
      Quote: GexZloy
      The purpose of the article is to increase the hatred of Russians towards Ukrainians.
      ...

      Yes, if you want, because only Bandera Nazis are considered true Ukrainians, they hate their noble cause (God himself ordered), and the rest of the so-called Ukrainians are simply fooled Little Russians.
    3. felix34
      felix34 19 May 2014 15: 31
      0
      DED (by origin) - for GexZloy!
      Naive or just pretending? This is then what kind of overseas uncles from the chair of the chairman of the ministers of Ukraine instructed you, what kind of deputy. The Secretary of State handed out buns on the Maidan, what are the HUNDREDS of non-governmental organizations "unknown" of the same overseas countries on the "green" for many years powdered the heads of all "Square", especially their yellow-throated representatives? Or enumerate further? Or do you think that we are going to destroy our relatives with whom we still communicate? Or have you all already had something in your brain? Unthinkable !!! Are you really EVIL in a stupid way.
    4. felix34
      felix34 19 May 2014 15: 31
      0
      DED (by origin) - for GexZloy!
      Naive or just pretending? This is then what kind of overseas uncles from the chair of the chairman of the ministers of Ukraine instructed you, what kind of deputy. The Secretary of State handed out buns on the Maidan, what are the HUNDREDS of non-governmental organizations "unknown" of the same overseas countries on the "green" for many years powdered the heads of all "Square", especially their yellow-throated representatives? Or enumerate further? Or do you think that we are going to destroy our relatives with whom we still communicate? Or have you all already had something in your brain? Unthinkable !!! Are you really EVIL in a stupid way.
  30. 97110
    97110 19 May 2014 10: 34
    +1
    An amazing nation has been raised over the years in Ukraine. They don’t see anything, they don’t hear anything, they don’t understand anything. The most horrible thing they can imagine is the life of Muscovite under the yoke of the terrible Putin. At the same time, the most active part of the people is working in Russia under this terrible oppression and, against the background of other free dill, does not look like victims. It is very embarrassing for them to admit that they betrayed, sold the right to be a great nation for US cookies. Flying into space traded for the right to lick the pan from behind. Therefore, they will endure, and will endure, until the shame for betrayal is atoned for.
  31. cerbuk6155
    cerbuk6155 19 May 2014 10: 45
    +3
    If you decided to leave, then you had to leave and not wag the tongue in the gang.
  32. serge
    serge 19 May 2014 10: 57
    +9
    “Dad,” asked little Sarochka from Odessa, “can the Lord allow me to send a Valentine to a person who belongs to another religion?”
    “I think so,” answered daddy, a middle-aged Jew.
    - And to whom would you like to send a Valentine?
    - Alexander Turchinov.
    - Alexander Turchinov?!?!?! asked the shocked father. - But why?
    “Well,” said Sarochka, “imagine: Turchinov receives a valentine with a declaration of love from a little Jewish girl. He will begin to think that not everyone in Odessa is so bad, and will love the world a little more. And then, when he receives a few more valentines, he will understand that the Southeast is really beautiful, and he will finally stop tearing down and publicly acknowledge his mistakes.
    “Sarochka,” said the deeply moved father, “this is the most beautiful thing I have ever heard ...”
    “I know, daddy,” Sarochka answered. “And when he stops hiding from the people, our militias will finally shoot this bitch.”
  33. The comment was deleted.
  34. lexxxus
    lexxxus 19 May 2014 11: 05
    +1
    A doubt creeps in: isn't the junta working for Russia? They are doing everything to bring their end closer.

    I won’t be surprised at anything. Such thoughts also flickered, because some actions / statements of dill do not lend themselves to a logical explanation.
    but these are just fantasies ...
  35. mithridate
    mithridate 19 May 2014 11: 06
    +1
    the junta cuts the branch on which it sits
  36. marat63
    marat63 19 May 2014 11: 10
    +3
    I am indignant at the fact that even our Russian media call the gang of Nazi punishers the Ukrainian National Guard. No need to whitewash the Nazis, let Merkel know that we understand who she supports.
    1. wasjasibirjac
      wasjasibirjac 19 May 2014 14: 20
      0
      Quote: marat63
      I am indignant at the fact that even our Russian media call the gang of Nazi punishers the Ukrainian National Guard.

      unfortunately THIS is their SELF-NAME, accounted for. and yes, the UKRAINIAN NATIONAL GUARD cuts the ear
  37. VD chauvinist
    VD chauvinist 19 May 2014 11: 11
    0
    Most likely, someone passed them. And further. This is, as the advanced people say, a "message" for everyone - who is not with THEM, that ... In general, who does not jump, that is. I'm sorry for the guys. Now others will be more careful, and decisions about "dump" or "move" will be made much more quickly.
  38. Lawless
    Lawless 19 May 2014 11: 14
    0
    Rats! How do they want to live on ...
  39. VNP1958PVN
    VNP1958PVN 19 May 2014 11: 19
    0
    Well, when will the army begin to thank the Natsik for their respect? Or now they are not given cartridges?
  40. Ruswolf
    Ruswolf 19 May 2014 11: 20
    +1
    After months of misinformation in the media, I have little faith in what happened, and if it was, it was exactly as they say. Information could be launched as a preventative measure!
    Now everyone has telephones with cameras, and the messages are only verbal, and even different information is everywhere, there is no photo or video. Many spoke about the trial, the international tribunal over banderlogs. Where is the evidence? In Nuremberg, even with such evidence otmazyvatsya .... And now it would be generally krants throughout the Kiev company! The UN claims human rights violations on both sides. So show in the media, take the accusations away from you and show who they are! And what are they!
    Remember when there was information that they hanged the police chief Mariupol Andreschuk. Yes, there was a photo of something lying under the flag, a cap and boots, but where is the face? On a pine tree, a scarecrow or a man is not clear. And how many conversations. Kiev denies, militias argue. So think gossip or not!
  41. Sandor Rado
    Sandor Rado 19 May 2014 11: 21
    -7
    In my opinion, another lies of the propagandists of the Russian Federation. Here is the confirmation, though the plot is different, but the character itself suggests that the channels of the Russian Federation are lying. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQjkz7_E9AY&feature=em-uploademail
    1. Russ69
      Russ69 19 May 2014 12: 21
      +2
      Quote: Sandor Rado
      Here is the confirmation, though the plot is different, but the character itself suggests that the channels of the Russian Federation are lying.

      Just, it’s a lie ukrsmi, in nete someone sorted out the personnel ...
    2. Andrey Ulyanovsky
      Andrey Ulyanovsky 19 May 2014 13: 04
      +1
      Link - here: http://news.bigmir.net/ukraine/816692-Vozle-Kramatorska-siloviki-zastrelili-odno
      go-iz-liderov-boevikov.
      It’s a little taut with the intelligence of the dill propaganda - from a sore head to someone else's knock.
  42. P-38
    P-38 19 May 2014 11: 24
    +3
    I won’t be surprised if the Ukropov’s soldiers conspire, and will slowly shoot the right-handed soldiers in the back in battle. As it was at the end of World War I in several armies: Russian, Austro-Hungarian, German. Those who were scum and did not spare the soldiers were shot in the back. True, pravoseki themselves strive to hide behind someone else’s back, well, yes, the soldier will find the opportunity, if there is a desire.
    1. wasjasibirjac
      wasjasibirjac 19 May 2014 14: 24
      0
      Quote: P-38
      I won’t be surprised if the Ukropov’s soldiers conspire, and will slowly shoot the right-handed soldiers in the back in battle.

      Pravoseki themselves will be in the rear of the army as "reliable units" in order to stop fraternization and escape attempts.
  43. Giant thought
    Giant thought 19 May 2014 11: 37
    +1
    Everywhere the hand of Moscow is visible. Not otherwise. Maydanutykh has no more arguments.
  44. Prutkov
    Prutkov 19 May 2014 11: 45
    +7
    The other day I was traveling in public transport with contract soldiers who were returning from the Donetsk region. Specifically, from where I didn’t specify (you understand negative ) In general, they said, or rather, they were outraged loudly. Of all the conversations, one conclusion can be drawn. Comrades, militiamen of Slovyansk, please - try to shoot less at the ordinary military, Natsik and pravoseki do not count. And in a couple of weeks you will be able to advance to Kiev together with the Ukrainian Armed Forces.
    1. Akulina
      Akulina 19 May 2014 11: 55
      +1
      Yeah, as soon as possible they would really advance ...
    2. Russ69
      Russ69 19 May 2014 12: 23
      +2
      Quote: Rods
      Comrades, militiamen of Slovyansk, please - try to shoot less at the ordinary military, Natsik and pravoseki do not count. And in a couple of weeks you will be able to advance to Kiev together with the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

      So, let them go to the side of the militia. Now it turns out that the army is waiting for someone to take ... And they don’t really want to fight, and there is no desire to go over to the militia side yet ...
  45. Akulina
    Akulina 19 May 2014 11: 53
    0
    "A doubt creeps in: isn't the junta working for Russia?" - what nonsense .... just rudeness even ... And here Russia is to blame. Give our liberals only this "brilliant" idea.
  46. parus2nik
    parus2nik 19 May 2014 11: 54
    +1
    But if it wasn’t, the information bomb is good ..
  47. romzess
    romzess 19 May 2014 11: 56
    0
    FIFTH - quintus

    QUINTUMATION means
  48. romzess
    romzess 19 May 2014 11: 59
    0
    and infa from LRV, although it looks supported by a proof, but usually not very reliable IMHO
  49. Slovek
    Slovek 19 May 2014 12: 06
    +3
    The most important thing is to find out whether it is true or not, to find all kinds of evidence at the UN, to yell at all the media.
    And yet ... it is quite possible that ordinary Ukrainians, who do not yet know what exactly is happening and what needs to be done, are also told about the "horrors of Putinism" and "executions of dissent" in Donbass.
    Because, as you look at the Ukrainian forums there, everyone yells that it is the Russians who are to blame, Putin's spies, they ask not to go to them, that SE terrorists and these are internal affairs of Ukraine, they ask why our Duma allowed troops to enter them in the country.
    My opinion: If we get into it now, then we will definitely be to blame for everything and never get rid of it, all who still hesitate in Ukraine or pretend that it doesn’t concern them will grab their weapons and go to war against Russia. And the whole world will scare the Russians and Putin themselves and their children.
  50. Thomas
    Thomas 19 May 2014 12: 21
    +2
    Executions of soldiers of their units are all mercenary tricks. On the net you can find a confession of one mercenary about the events in the Balkans, in which he admits that he often played such things with his subordinates. He himself was the coordinator, and the customers sent the Arab-African scum to him as "meat". He was engaged in the executions himself after the flight of his "fighters" from their positions in battle.
    So the analogy is obvious.