Military Review

Features of weapons and tactics of the Soviet counter-guerrilla groups on the experience of the war in the Baltic States

A year ago, I had the opportunity to meet with one interesting person, now an agronomist scientist, and in the past, the commander of a reconnaissance team who fought with the “green brothers” in 1952..1953gg in Estonia. I was primarily interested in the experience of use and operation weaponswhat and how it showed. However, the information was so unusual and interesting that I decided to present it in this article. Perhaps it will be interesting for the modern military.

Our meeting was held in the All-Russian Institute of Plant Protection, in the office. This person during a personal acquaintance turned out to be an ordinary cheerful grandfather of 70 years with kopecks. His past gave only a scar on his head, and blue eyes, unexpectedly clear, attentive and dashing, perhaps, inappropriate age and appearance. In addition, a maskkalat with strings instead of buttons, rather new in appearance, and a leather brown pouch on the wall led to certain thoughts. As it turned out, the camouflage is already more than 50 years old, and the cartridge pouch is even bigger - it is from the German MR.

He felt in 1952..1953gg fighting in Estonia, was the commander of the reconnaissance group, and then in 1954 in Korea, was injured and commissioned for health reasons. Further will be stated in his words.

The strength of the Soviet intelligence group was usually 32..34 people. According to the state in service were carbines arr. 1944g, PCA, 2 radio stations and one PD per group. The actual armament of the group was the 8 RP MG-34 / 42, 10..12 PCT units with installed PU and PCA with box magazines. On average, they tried to keep every fourth armed with a machine gun, every third with a sniper rifle, and the rest with automatic weapons.

With regard to light machine guns, it was believed that the more the better, preferably 2..3 for each compartment. MGShniki got from where you can, mostly of course trophy. They were shot from them in frequent short bursts - on a flash, down under a tree, on the right, on the left, and the fire is transferred to the next target, regardless of the results. Preference was given to them, and not DP, because of the possibility of "mining" from the enemy, and because of the tape feed. In the case of incomplete, DP was also used.

The Tokarev self-loading rifles also got it by hook or by crook. The rifle was modified with automatic control for automatic fire, the single was manually cut off. The reason for such unexpected tricks is the need for the squall of fire in case of ambush and the imitation of many RPs in a group to demoralize the enemy. Bipods were not used because of the transience of a forest battle. PU got to where and how much you can, if possible - on all rifles. Blends did not, the case is regular on PU.

There were enough automatic machines, but only box store was used for PPSH: it is better than disk drive - more reliable, especially if you have to touch at night. Plus, less clearance and weight. PPP was not enough, and did not like them because of the lack of a normal butt. Lead bullets were used, one of the three bullets was cut with a cross. Whether it gave any advantages in terms of stopping power - the author does not know, this was the way the recommendation of the sergeant who went through the war was done. If, however, each is filed, then penetrability falls, incl. shrub. Tracer and armor-piercing were not used.
On the whole, the weapon revision included the adjustment “for themselves” and the descent polishing, which was very strong for the SVT.

Shooting a sound at night is unsuccessful. Better on the backlight (clock, glasses, shadow). The main tactic when ambushed is the “fire hedgehog” (although it wasn’t called that yet), which is why the modified SVT is needed. Side patrols are not used. The rest of the tactics are fairly standard.

Pistols were at the commander of the group and his deputies, according to the state of the TT, and in fact - two Nagana. The reason - the drum (the ability to shoot a second time in the event of a misfire). Other systems are not used. Pistols were used in houses during sweeps, during hand-to-hand combat (RB). The main method of cleaning rooms - shooting prone, under the furniture. The fighter rolls into the room and falls to the floor. In this case, one hand may be under the body, or be in an uncomfortable position for firing. For this, two crooks are needed - in each hand.

The main task during stripping is to shoot first. The enemy, after even passing a bullet that flew past, will have a jim-jams, and he will not fall back into you anymore. The second you dump him. The first shot is fast, the second one is accurate. It should be aimed at the hand, not at the front sight. They shot in the chest, the head did not heal.

The stopping effect is better with TT than with Nagan, and with Parabellum slightly better than TT. In fact, there was no case for someone to miss one hit.

Grenades in the management of the database in the forest did not use, but just in case (cleaning the strong point, buildings) were worn - 4 pcs. RGD-33 without shell. Used mainly without fuses, to trick. The fuses are either in a pomegranate or in a box on a belt (not on the chest).
Optics - 1 binoculars for platoon. Covers it did not sew.

In terms of cold arms, the MPL was actively used, including in RB. It was sharpening the contour. It was cut along the neck from the side down, "along the ear" into the collarbone (there is a lot of iron on the body, it can ricochet from any flags). In addition, the MPL in the Republic of Belarus can be put under the ricochet (if you see where the enemy is aiming) - there was a precedent with the author's grandfather in the war (see below). They trained to throw knives, but there was no precedent for using the author’s memory.
A spotted camouflage suit was used (tricolor, which hung on a hanger). Masks, mittens, disguise weapons are not used (not thought of it, according to the author). Camouflage nets and “shaggy” camouflage were not used — they cling to bushes, you don’t run much in the forest.
During the war, our troops cut their heads - a way to recognize their own, plus it is more convenient in the Republic of Belarus. The Germans wore long hair. Also used in Estonia.
Below are two memorable cases that the author told me about.

- The only precedent for the use of grenades and pistols from the author (1953, Estonia).

Situation - they surrounded the village house, inside which the group of 5 militants was blocked (the leader, radio operator and 3 fighter). They offered to surrender, otherwise they will burn them from grenade launchers. Militants put the children in the windows - it turned out that there was also the host family in the house. We decided to wait for the special group of the MGB. An order came to storm the forces of the reconnaissance, and to take the radio operator alive.
Storming plan: Two grenades under the very windows without shirts - explosions (splinters up) - two grenades into the windows without fuses. The first group is a 2 man with two footpieces each. Rolled into the door crosswise, one for the stove on the radio operator, the second under the window for the leader (the location of their allegedly, the layout in appearance, pipe, and analogies with typical houses). Cut them down while they shrank in anticipation of the explosion. Then they shoot at the rest lying under the furniture.
The second group is 3 person with PCA. They follow in, fall to the floor and shoot at the ceiling, for demoralization.
The actual performance - the second group did not fall to the floor, began to shoot standing up and was destroyed by the militant (one successful line from the MR), which the first group did not have time to finish. Account - 3: 3. Civil are intact. The leader and the radio operator are taken alive.

- The situation of hand-to-hand combat at the Pulkovo Heights of the author's grandfather (1941, Leningrad Front).
Situation: A group of militias around 30 people in the defense at a high-altitude. Assumed the onset of the Germans. Armament: rifles, 2 clips for cartridges, 2 grenades RGD-33 and gas masks. The commander (actual, who became them in the trenches) - the author's grandfather, a non-commissioned officer in the past and a veteran of the German war.
Commander's actions: separated those who honestly passed the Voroshilovsky shooter and know how to shoot. The 5 man is out. Gave them rifles and all bullets. Then he separated those who know how to fight, mostly punks. 7 man is out. He gave them sapper shovels, told them to sharpen, lie in the first line and jump out with him at the expense of "two." Of the rest, selected those with brains. He gave them grenades with a fuse and said to throw at the command "once". The rest (stupid, blind and unable to fight) distributed the grenades without fuses and told to throw at the command “two”. Then yell "Hurray", without getting out of the trenches.
The actual implementation - they shot the Germans lightly while they were walking. Cartridges ran out. Laid on a throw, threw grenades. The Germans lay down. Explosions. Thrown the second time. The Germans lay down, waiting for the explosions. At this moment, a group with deminers jumps out and runs towards them. From the trenches begin to shout "Hurray." While the Germans were rising, they reached it. Germans scored. Losses were incl. many of those who were supposed to sit in the trenches, but rushed to the attack, unable to fight, with boards and so on. In the author’s melee grandfather, he “beat off” a German bullet with a spatula — he saw a German aiming at him from Parabellum — he put the spatula at an angle — he heard a shot and seemed to be ringing — slashed the officer's neck. Then they collected weapons, food and alcohol, and retreated to their original positions. More Germans did not storm.

In general, what I heard and what I decided to share. A lot of this for me personally was very unusual, perhaps it would be interesting for specialists as well.

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  1. Werther
    Werther 20 May 2014 08: 12
    Thank you, a very interesting and informative article.
    1. Salamander
      Salamander 21 May 2014 16: 01
      The most informative article. Big plus!
  2. Good cat
    Good cat 20 May 2014 08: 39
    An interesting article, more of these
    1. 120352
      120352 20 May 2014 21: 23
      The article is interesting, but not very readable: there are many undisclosed abbreviations and it is not clear (to me personally) what kind of beast this is, a "fiery hedgehog".
  3. shurup
    shurup 20 May 2014 08: 52
    It was interesting to me. In the latter case, it was possible to use gas masks as a weapon. Who will guess how?
    1. zaazua
      zaazua 20 May 2014 09: 27
      Like a bulova, if you put a stone in a gas mask
    2. figter
      figter 20 May 2014 10: 14
      I now think that now the gas mask and a set of OZK can be used for combat at night. OZK and gas mask does not pass heat, that is, the infantryman will not be visible in the thermal imager. You can skip enemy armored vehicles at night and destroy them point blank. Literally an invisibility cloak. And then the Americans trumpeted about their successes in Iraq in the night battle, and there’s a simple opposition to them.
      1. Vladimirets
        Vladimirets 20 May 2014 13: 12
        Quote: figter
        OZK and gas mask does not pass heat, that is, the infantryman will not be visible in the thermal imager.

        Who told you such nonsense? Both the OZK and the gas mask are still heated, respectively, they are visible.
        1. figter
          figter 20 May 2014 16: 27
          Comment to write something?
          It is about human warmth. OZK is intended to protect, among other things, from light radiation, that is, it prevents the passage of the infrared spectrum as much as possible.
          1. Vladimirets
            Vladimirets 21 May 2014 08: 52
            Quote: figter
            It is about human warmth. OZK is intended to protect, among other things, from light radiation, that is, it prevents the passage of the infrared spectrum as much as possible.

            Do you know the difference between NVD and a thermal imager? The thermal imager captures the surface temperature and if it differs from the surrounding background, at least in the positive direction, even in the negative, then this can be seen. Indeed, Kulibin.
            1. figter
              figter 21 May 2014 15: 25
              And who told you that the surface temperature will differ from the surrounding background? Do not consider yourself smarter than others! That's really, just to comment!
              1. Vladimirets
                Vladimirets 21 May 2014 17: 03
                Quote: figter
                And who told you that the surface temperature will differ from the surrounding background?

                I repeat to you once again:
                Quote: Vladimirets
                Both the OZK and the gas mask still heat up

                moreover, the gas mask rubber fits snugly to the head if you are not in the know and has a corresponding body temperature or close to it. Well, if at night the air temperature and, accordingly, other inanimate bodies around will be about 35%, then, of course, it will be difficult for a person to notice. Only I do not know in what area such a temperature happens at night. In general, to talk about thermal imagers, you just need to use them at least a little and it will immediately become clear.
                Quote: figter
                That's really, just to comment!

                Is that you about yourself?
      2. kotvov
        kotvov 20 May 2014 19: 33
        and have you ever been in the ozk move? After all, you need to not only lie down, but also get to the place where you lie down.
        1. bubalik
          bubalik 20 May 2014 19: 38
          kotvov (1) SU  Today, 19: 33 have you ever been to the ozk?

          ,,, not transferable laughing , at least squeeze the shape, the broom is just not enough laughing
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. figter
          figter 20 May 2014 22: 42
          Oddly enough, dear, but tried. And not only got to the place. In this case, we are talking about defense. So there’s a lot of time to get there and not necessarily for your two. The main task is to wait in cover and keep the RPGs or to launch ATGMs at the moment of the enemy’s approach, this is real.
        4. figter
          figter 20 May 2014 23: 12
          Oddly enough, dear, I tried. And how I tried it. You generally served in the army, otherwise you entered me into such a stupor. I have no words at all ... It feels like you're from another planet. In addition, it is not clear why you gathered somewhere in the OZK with a bed. We are talking about defense or actions in an ambush, and not about a march-throw and passing standards.
  4. Kuvabatake
    Kuvabatake 20 May 2014 09: 02
    Great article ... There is much to learn. Bold +
  5. svskor80
    svskor80 20 May 2014 09: 11
    The history of real clashes is always interesting. Thank you for the article.
  6. MahsusNazar
    MahsusNazar 20 May 2014 09: 27
    Frames decide everything!
    it's me about how the fighters were divided for battle in hand-to-hand fighting!
    Really very informative and interesting. Thanks to the author, veterans GLORY!
  7. JonnyT
    JonnyT 20 May 2014 09: 53
    Interesting and informative! The main weapon of a soldier is his brain!
    It is a pity that the experience of such "grandfathers" is little in demand ... ... I remember stumbled upon an article, it told how a "grandfather" who had passed through the Second World War, who served in "SMERSH", very, very surprised specialists from the GRU
  8. Uncle lee
    Uncle lee 20 May 2014 09: 55
    That's what an experienced fighter and Germans put and saved his people. Article plus, thanks to the author. Glory and memory to veterans! soldier
  9. Gomunkul
    Gomunkul 20 May 2014 10: 16
    Commander's actions: separated those who honestly passed the Voroshilovsky shooter and know how to shoot. The 5 man is out. Gave them rifles and all bullets. Then he separated those who know how to fight, mostly punks. 7 man is out. He gave them sapper shovels, told them to sharpen, lie in the first line and jump out with him at the expense of "two." Of the rest, selected those with brains. He gave them grenades with a fuse and said to throw at the command "once". The rest (stupid, blind and unable to fight) distributed the grenades without fuses and told to throw at the command “two”. Then yell "Hurray", without getting out of the trenches.
    It is time to return general military training, so that in case of war (God forbid of course) there would be no meaningless losses. The above is a good example. In this example, the commander has the honor and respect, he was able to competently approach the solution of the task. hi
  10. Dragon-y
    Dragon-y 20 May 2014 10: 20
    Instead of a cyst, probably.
  11. Alf
    Alf 20 May 2014 10: 47
    As far as I know, after the war, many partisans Kovpak and Saburov were sent to the very places where the forest brothers and other "fighters for independence" operated. Since the partisans were well aware of their tactics and, accordingly, the tactics of the enemy's actions, the result was not slow to show itself.
  12. creak
    creak 20 May 2014 10: 58
    After reading the article, I would like to note a few points ... Firstly, the SVT-38,40 rifle never had bipods, so they were not used ... It is also unclear, the author writes that the PCA was enough, so why bother with SVT and refine it to create a flurry of fire? Another question - what is the advantage of belt power for a machine gun, especially with short-term maneuverable fire contact, especially in the woods? By the way, the MG-34 had power not only from the tape, but also from box stores ... Well, two-handed shooting of the two Nagans, as something completely ordinary, only a few were able to, and almost all the members of the reconnaissance group. This is not an action movie.
    PS The actions of RPGs (reconnaissance-search groups) against nationalists in the post-war period are well described in the memoirs of Yu. Nazarov: "From a paratrooper to an NKVD shooter" - where everyone fights for some reason with regular weapons of domestic production ...
    1. Orang
      Orang 20 May 2014 12: 43
      Quote: ranger
      Well, two-handed shooting from two Nagans, as something completely ordinary

      As I understand it, they shot from one gun, from the one from which it was more convenient to shoot lying on its side.
    2. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets 20 May 2014 13: 13
      Quote: ranger
      Firstly, the SVT-38,40 rifle never had bipods, which is why they weren’t used ... It’s also not clear, the author writes that there was enough PCA, so why bother with SVT and modify it to create a flurry of fire? One more question - what is the advantage of belt power for a machine gun, especially with short-term maneuverable fire contact, especially in the forest? By the way, the MG-34 had power not only from the belt, but also from box stores ...

      Plus, I completely agree.
    3. figter
      figter 21 May 2014 15: 36
      I suppose that they got caught up with the SVT because of the power of the shot and the range. In SVT, the rifle cartridge, and the PPSh - pistol. Although I heard that SVT is the A.V.A.N.O., they did not like her, she often wedged due to the skew of the cartridge. SVT decrypted- YOUR COMRADE MYSELF!
  13. vitos8854
    vitos8854 20 May 2014 11: 11
  14. Aslan
    Aslan 20 May 2014 11: 17
    fierce grandfather !!!
  15. 20 May 2014 11: 32
    The main weapon is the head.
  16. Puskarinkis
    Puskarinkis 20 May 2014 11: 53
    Experience and observation are very important. Good article.
  17. rus_ak_93
    rus_ak_93 20 May 2014 12: 52
    PPSh - high-speed, low-power cartridge - creation of a "shaft" of fire, so that the head does not stick out
    SVT - a powerful cartridge easily breaks through a tree 20 cm in diameter and with the presence of optics it is possible to eliminate a hidden enemy
    MG-again, the same fast-firing, powerful, large ammunition in the tape
    the ambush fight or the oncoming battle is fleeting, usually 5-10 seconds and the more bullets you release, there is a chance to survive until the next
    and the fact that with two guns is also correct, when driving carpets and mattresses into the room, it is not made up and meeting, for example, with a stool or other piece of furniture or an animal is always guaranteed. One hand meets an obstacle - a second shot and support when falling - assessment of the situation - the first hand aimed shot (if possible if not hurt or did not break about an obstacle) well, something like that
    1. creak
      creak 20 May 2014 13: 36
      [quote = rus_ak_93] to the ranger

      MG-again, the same fast-firing, powerful, large ammunition in the tape

      The number of cartridges in the wearable tape for the MG-42 -50, the DP machine gun in the disc-47 and what is it more in the tape? And with a rifle, in your opinion in the forest during a fleeting fire contact is easier to control? Well, well ... And you very vividly portrayed the shooting of two revolvers - did you really have to roll into the room with two revolvers? I also saw and read the militants, incl. about shooting "in Macedonian" ...

      So, in the memoirs of Nazarov, who fought with the nationalists for several years as part of a reconnaissance and search group (RPG), no gadgets like a mass of captured weapons were observed, they were armed with regular armaments of the SA and the NKVD because they were not partisans, but military personnel .. By the way, a reconnaissance group of 34 people is no longer a group, but a unit, and with such a crowd did they go to the forest? And under a glass of tea, you can still say something wrong - there are too many inconsistencies that there is no point in commenting on ...

      PS And finally, the most interesting - a year ago, the author met with his grandfather for about 70 years ... According to him, he fought in the Baltic states after the war - how old was he - can you count - did the pioneers fight with the nationalists? Such things are not suitable even for a smoking room ...

      1. rus_ak_93
        rus_ak_93 20 May 2014 13: 51
        Well, I didn’t find the Nagans, now it’s easier, light and noise, it’s better to have two with an interval of 2 seconds if it’s a hostage, and so it’s better, two, in the corners
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. biznaw
        biznaw 1 June 2014 23: 08
        We do not know in what year the author spoke with the ex; he himself drew attention to this fact. I did not find any more contradictions, everything is on the topic, "I tried oysters", the preference for the German MG machine guns was explained by the author. Reread. The PPSh was used, the SVT was transferred to automatic fire to simulate the operation of Dektyarev's machine guns. So they did at the front, they did not come up with it.
        The problem with shooting from Nagan with at least one hand even with two arises only when shooting at cans at a distance of 15m, the center of gravity is shifted back and the barrel throws up more than you expect. from a distance of 5-6 m you will not even miss the can, the bullet does not have time to get high from throwing the barrel.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  18. Falcon5555
    Falcon5555 20 May 2014 12: 52
    DP - Dektyarev's machine gun?
    What is PU? Is the scope universal?
    1. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets 20 May 2014 13: 18
      Quote: Falcon5555
      What is PU? Is the scope universal?

      The scope is shortened, created specifically for SVT.
    2. biznaw
      biznaw 1 June 2014 23: 09
      Dektyarev infantry
  19. rus_ak_93
    rus_ak_93 20 May 2014 13: 05
    Degtyareva infantry
    sighting device
    1. Falcon5555
      Falcon5555 20 May 2014 13: 13
      SVT with installed PU

      But can’t there be an SVT (Tokarev sniper rifle, as I understand it) without an aiming device?
      1. turanchox
        turanchox 21 May 2014 18: 11
        Tokarev Self-loading Rifle
  20. Bruevich
    Bruevich 20 May 2014 13: 05
    Fine. Ready script for the film.
  21. rus_ak_93
    rus_ak_93 20 May 2014 13: 19
    SVT-Tokarev self-loading rifle
    a specially designed sniper rifle appeared with us in the 50s, the still famous SVD, and until then they used conventional rifles that showed good results when shooting barrels
    1. Falcon5555
      Falcon5555 20 May 2014 13: 27
      Oh yes. Self-loading. Thank.
  22. Free wind
    Free wind 20 May 2014 14: 10
    From some stories of my grandfather. During the war, a gun was a very valuable trophy for a soldier. And to quite a few soldiers, pistols saved their lives. Soldiers didn’t really like parabelum, despite its excellent combat characteristics, there were few of them, and all officers knew about the parabelum characteristics, and officers soon exchanged parabelums for soldiers. Usually a captured gun is a Walther. Dektyarev wasn’t shot from machine guns, almost no one had the strength to do so. During the war, my grandfather saw only one machine gun capable of shooting from his hands. It is strange that they describe that the PCA was equipped with horns. We tried to go into battle with a round magazine, at 60 rounds, and then during the battle they charged horns. Maybe the hitch is that the PCA seems to have an individual fit for stores? I do not remember exactly. Many people were fond of a four-part bullet. a bullet prepared in this way is called Jacques. They also drilled bullets, not through and through, making a Doom-Doom bullet. I remember my grandfather talked about unusual machine guns that they captured somewhere in early 1945. The cartridge is almost like a rifle, Pounding almost like a machine gun. At 200 meters, the head with a helmet is sewn. Probably it was a stormtrooper44, I was little then to be more interested. It's a pity.
    1. vomag
      vomag 21 May 2014 10: 39
      Do you know about a store with 60 folders I hear for the first time you don’t throw info on them ?? wink PPSh-41 was first equipped with drum magazines from PPD-40 with a capacity of 71 rounds, well, so by the way ......
  23. The comment was deleted.
  24. Maaslo Sallonen
    Maaslo Sallonen 20 May 2014 14: 44
    Who would be able to, except us, the Slavs? The article is now my personal gold fund. Thank. And for Ukraine my heart hurts.
  25. sub307
    sub307 20 May 2014 15: 04
    Just awesome". Well done - in one word.
  26. Signaller
    Signaller 20 May 2014 15: 50
    Well done. It can be seen that they were not made with a finger. Take note. Thank you for the article.
  27. hip
    hip 20 May 2014 16: 28
    Another nonsense of an office hamster suffering from a desire to fight.
    Guys, those who served, well, tell me - how do you imagine in the 50s, when the war ended long ago with the armament of the reconnaissance group with German weapons ??? And cartridges for MG to them NATO threw off planes ????
    Who served in the army - knows perfectly well that this is primarily accounting and control, which SVT when there were none at all at that time ???
    I want adrenaline - go to the army, serve at least a year.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. creak
      creak 20 May 2014 17: 51
      This is exactly what I wrote in my commentary above .. In addition, how could the grandfather referred to by the author and who was 1913 with a small one in 70, in this case, after the war, he could be a schoolboy at best ... Just the author heard something that he read and how in the song - I blinded you from what it was - and whether there was a grandfather or is it a violent illiterate fantasy of the author ...
    3. SLX
      SLX 20 May 2014 23: 26
      Those who served in the army know very well that this is primarily accounting and control,

      And the weapon seized from the forest brothers in peacetime is also the management reports for the work done, followed by the awarding of orders and medals of those not involved (and, of course, the punishment of the innocent). Therefore, the bosses will gnaw to the bones for 8 seized, but not surrendered, machine guns. But such a truth of life is unknown to combat office hamsters.

      what SVT when there was no trace of them at that time ???

      Strictly speaking, immediately after the war, SVT and AVT were removed from the army for long-term storage, but they still remained in the NKVD troops for several years. But it is unlikely until 1953, especially in the battle groups chasing the forest brothers - who wanted to check the AK, SKS and RPD mastered in the mass production in combat, that was unmeasured at that time.
    4. alexey garbuz
      alexey garbuz 21 May 2014 00: 11
      What about a digger? but under the eaves? not all caches have rotted yet!
  28. SAG
    SAG 20 May 2014 16: 43
    Pistols were used ... in hand-to-hand combat (RB).
    Aim at the shadow at night laughing
  29. zoknyay82
    zoknyay82 20 May 2014 17: 17
    I agree that the MG machine gun is excellent, but the DP is slightly worse, the box magazine would be better suited for the PPS with its rate of fire than for the PPSh, why should I convert a ten-shot magazine under two fires, two or three in milk, moreover, this weapon is more likely for the pros (by care). And about Nagan I wonder how much inferior to TT. IMHO Veterans knew better!
    1. Denimax
      Denimax 20 May 2014 17: 35
      The partisans used a tank DP, the store held 63 rounds. Nagan is certainly reliable, but the method of loading by that time was already outdated.
    2. zoknyay82
      zoknyay82 20 May 2014 22: 06
      And forgive me, I forgot to add, but what about f-1 on stretch marks covering the most probable ways for the band-group to leave? An expansive hand-made bullet of more than five metro is inaccurate. And why DP and not RPD for example?
  30. Serpentik
    Serpentik 20 May 2014 19: 00
    Thank you, a very interesting article!
  31. SLX
    SLX 20 May 2014 21: 09
    The article is full of crap, and its author is really a fighting office hamster, which delirium of his inflamed imagination gives off as super-duper secrets to which he wondered by a miracle.

    I ran out of the corner of my eye several articles of this author on the resource where this article was taken from - about materials in small arms, about self-made testing of cartridges, about a short barrel ... Mom, dear! The author, of course, is far from Kuptsov, but rare — even the supposedly read books on theory mentioned by the author clearly did not benefit him. But for those who are poorly versed in small arms, they have an almost scientific exposition.

    Another thing is surprising - a bunch of enthusiastic reviews in the comments about this nonsense. There is terry crap in each paragraph, and about the author, the author simply doesn’t know how much!
  32. uwzek
    uwzek 20 May 2014 21: 14
    I agree with many - the author paused.
    I didn’t describe it to my grandfather, and I’m very superficial with weapons. The reconnaissance group the size of a rifle platoon is amazing, there was a light machine gun in each squad, and not one per group (I'm talking about the fact that at least three parking brakes would be present throughout the state in such a "yagd-team" about 100 kg load per group).
    Specifically at arms. Light machine guns. German MGs are excellent weapons, but in the light machine gun version (without the machine and the second number that joins the belts), they are not much better than the DP. At the time described by the author, the RPD machine gun with a stop cartridge tape in a disk box was already produced. With the "forest brothers" we fought the troops of the Ministry of State Security, armed them at the last squeak.
    Rifles. As though SCS (and about three years of AK-47) had been in service for seven years, the best weapon for the forest. And we describe a sniper version of the SVT-40 rifle (and not Tokarev’s carbine). These weapons and WWII snipers were not very respected, they preferred Mosin rifles. None of these rifles had a bipod (the bipod was on a Simonov automatic rifle, which fired in bursts, perhaps it was precisely the author of the article who had in mind)
    1. SLX
      SLX 20 May 2014 23: 14
      German MGs are an excellent weapon, but in the version of a light machine gun (without a machine tool and a second number that connects the tapes) it is not much better than DP.

      MG were inferior to DP not only in weight, but also, more importantly, in accuracy, and significantly. But nevertheless, reconnaissance groups still preferred MG when there was such an opportunity: the "dead" weight of DP stores negated the weight gain, MG's dimensions were better, and the DP unmasking factor was important for reconnaissance groups - his cartridges rattled in the store ... Therefore, the DP was recognized as of little use for reconnaissance groups even during the Second World War, but for lack of anything better it had to be used throughout Ivanovo.
  33. dzau
    dzau 20 May 2014 22: 18
    Quote: uwzek
    were in service with the SCS (and about three years AK-47)

    They consisted of, and how often, in fact, we don’t know.

    It’s hard to believe about grandfather, in such organization, albeit amusingly stated. Mine didn’t say anything, though awards, and all that. He came from the war and planed furniture. Mother says she didn’t tell her or her brothers, as if she hadn’t fought. And then the whole Hollywood, in a Jedi way, beat off a bullet, with blades on the machines they chopped everything ...
  34. Rubon
    Rubon 21 May 2014 05: 36
    some kind of ... SVT redone, Nagans in two hands, MG got by any means ... Combined hodgepodge of youthful fantasies and tattered movie stereotypes. hi
  35. drop
    drop 21 May 2014 09: 01
    I had to train pilots for Afghanistan at the Soldus training ground. There was a wonderful training ground for bombing and aimed shooting at targets from attack aircraft and army helicopters. How was this landfill formed? In 1945, the government resettled residents of a number of districts from the site of the test site, set up checkpoints, and then, day and night, they bombed the forests and fired at everything that moves from cannons and machine guns. So in two years they have done away with all the fascist rabble in the area. It was effective. On Monday, when there were no flights, I allowed myself to go into the forest with my companion. Abandoned estates and gardens remained beautiful. In the forest, even the dugouts of these "forest people" were preserved, which the head of the landfill, at my request, undermined. And in the dugouts, I and my attendant found all kinds of weapons. These "forest human brothers" prepared thoroughly for sabotage. But our fathers destroyed them, so why can't we end the traitors and the fifth column at home now, with those who destroyed our industry and science. I include Serdyukov here as well.
  36. cucun
    cucun 21 May 2014 10: 35
    Gentlemen, doesn’t it seem strange to you to look for inaccuracies in the veteran’s story about events 60 years ago? All the more so in the retelling. All stories of veterans are subjective, but in the war (conditionally) the FSE is generally possible ...
    And do not forget that veterans are the same people and they can joke ...
    1. creak
      creak 21 May 2014 19: 05

      NO, it doesn't seem which of him the hell is a veteran .. You should read the text, how old this veteran could have been in the post-war period, if the author writes that in 2013 the so-called veteran was about 7 years old. Do we have that schoolchildren fought against the bandit underground? "And then Ostap suffered" - you can't say better than the classics ... After all, on the forum, besides fans of computer stelyaloks, there are professional military personnel who, unlike some hacks, know the materiel ..
      1. biznaw
        biznaw 1 June 2014 23: 24
        Where did you get the date of 2013? If it was published on VO May 20, 2014, does this mean that the story was told two weeks ago.
        Now pensioners will not even hold the super-duper deserved for their posts, apparently the story refers either to the Soviet era or to the beginning of the 90s
    2. The comment was deleted.
  37. seregatara1969
    seregatara1969 21 May 2014 13: 18
    grandfather doesn’t teach bad. Any experience of warfare is useful. Here who would learn how to collect and apply this experience in training.
  38. ed24
    ed24 1 October 2014 20: 29
    Thanks to the veterans.