The rocket "Proton-M" burned in the dense layers of the atmosphere

According to the ITAR-TASS, citing a representative of the Federal Space Agency, the Proton-M launch vehicle, which was launched from the Baikonur launch site on Friday night, burned down in dense layers of the atmosphere.

“Separate small fragments of the rocket could fall to Earth. The region of the fall is being specified, ”the source added.

The Proton-M carrier rocket, equipped with the Briz-M upper stage, was to put into orbit the most powerful Russian communications satellite Express-AM4P, created by the European company EADS Astrium by order of the Federal Space Agency program of Russia for 2006-2015 years, said RIA "News".

The accident occurred on the 540 second flight. The third stage of the rocket did not work out approximately 40 seconds before the planned separation of the Briz-M upper stage.

“During the launch at the stage of operation of the third stage of the launch vehicle, an abnormal situation arose, and the Express-AM4P spacecraft was not put into orbit. At present, representatives of the state commission are analyzing telemetric information and finding out the causes of the emergency situation, ”said the press secretary of the head of Roscosmos, Irina Zubareva.

A special commission will be created to investigate the causes of the accident.

Comments

[Andrey Yuryevich]

unpleasant, but not fatal, the reason is known and it’s already good, they will correct it.

[Canep]

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

, the reason is known and this is already good, correct.

What's good, Protons are falling like flies from the dust, no one is particularly surprised by the accidents, and in the event of a successful launch they rejoice, as if they flew to Mars. This reason should have been revealed in tests in the 60s. The hangar needs to be launched sooner, otherwise these Protons with their heptyl spoiled the entire steppe in Kazakhstan.

[Humpty]

Canep.
Heptyl, of course, is a rare thing, but its participation in the mucking of the steppes of Kazakhstan is modest against the background of how it is mucked and physically destroyed by wealthy urban bipedal and rural poachers.
The fact that for already a whole year and a half my garden has not been flooded with acid rain from a chemical smoke plant from the Dzhambul region is good news.

[Canep]

It’s not even a matter of heptyl, but of Proton, every launch of the lottery in Baikonur has interestingly thought of opening a tote.

[igor_m_p]

Quote: Canep

What good, Protons fall like flies from dust

Well, not so bad. If you look at the statistics, it seems to be a lot - about 10% of crashes (this includes partially successful launches), but if you look closely, most of the crashes occur at the start of operation.
In many ways, fuel spoiled the statistics - amyl-heptyl missiles are more prone to explosions, although not all accidents occurred because of fuel. The previous one fell due to the fact that they screwed something on the wrong side, it is still not clear with this launch, but it is also clearly not a matter of heptyl ...
True, it was not in vain that heptyl missiles were forbidden to be used for manned launches at one time.
Nothing, the "hangar" is on its way, in June the first launch, something like that was put on the launch pad ... Waiting ...

[Sibiriya]

it already smacks of diversion
to overclock the whole guide to the mother, to send the bolts and nuts with the keys

[Canep]

Quote: Siberia

to overclock the whole guide to the mother, to send the bolts and nuts with the keys

Already overclocked last year.

[geptilshik]

You can twist without keys

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Quote: Siberia

it already smacks of diversion
to overclock the whole guide to the mother, to send the bolts and nuts with the keys

This is the easiest option, but will you go instead? flag in hand if you are so smart ...

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Quote: Canep

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

, the reason is known and this is already good, correct.

What's good, Protons are falling like flies from the dust, no one is particularly surprised by the accidents, and in the event of a successful launch they rejoice, as if they flew to Mars. This reason should have been revealed in tests in the 60s. The hangar needs to be launched sooner, otherwise these Protons with their heptyl spoiled the entire steppe in Kazakhstan.

you understand that the old generation of designers is gone, young people are mastering production, and the one who does nothing is wrong! even against the backdrop of setbacks, we still work and develop. It's easy to scold, go and do ...

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Quote: Canep

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

, the reason is known and this is already good, correct.

What's good, Protons are falling like flies from the dust, no one is particularly surprised by the accidents, and in the event of a successful launch they rejoice, as if they flew to Mars. This reason should have been revealed in tests in the 60s. The hangar needs to be launched sooner, otherwise these Protons with their heptyl spoiled the entire steppe in Kazakhstan.

that is, judging by the minuses, everything is bad, nothing will be fixed, and the "proton" is a cap ...

[sir.jonn]

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

the reason is known and it’s already good, they will correct

The proton that exists today is the reason to abandon it. The hangar needs to be modified and started to exploit.

[afire]

it’s good that at least all of this is insured. The satellite will have to be assembled again, and by the way, it’s likely in the satellite that they’ll finish the thread at the same time, as it always happens - common sense comes when it's too late)

The second point is also very important - the component base, some elements laid down twenty years ago have not been produced for a long time, but at the same time they are on the market and there is 5 acceptance for them, as it should. Because enterprises that previously produced the necessary mikruhi - have not produced anything for a long time, but they sell products! How? Everything is simple - microcircuits (transistors) are taken from warehouses where it was inexplicably stored for more than 10 years (in my case) the marking is re-stamped, a rhombus is applied, certificates are drawn. and voila. And THE GOODS ARE NON-CONDITION COMPLETE, but as laid down in the CD and the documents are in order, there would be no problem.
This is a very difficult problem - components. And military devices are VERY difficult to redo due to bureaucracy in military circles (((
Remaking a board with new elements is easy, but getting permissions is complete F!

[anfil]

Why are rockets falling?
The answer to the question in the heading is transparent like a donut hole. Missiles fall for the same reason that home appliances and more sophisticated technical devices such as a car or an airplane fail. The question is the cost of such a refusal and the public response to it. Some element of the system fails or malfunctions, and the further question is only whether the system itself can cope with this failure, is it possible to eliminate the malfunction that has arisen without jeopardizing the entire technical device. A rocket differs from all other equipment only in that it cannot be stopped, repaired in the event of a malfunction. The car can be stopped. An airplane, no less complex than a rocket, can be used in many cases to land on an alternate aerodrome and fix the malfunction. The missile has no alternate aerodromes.
Further, everything that moves with a person on the ground, on water, under water and in the air has the opportunity to check before starting the movement what sets the device in motion, in particular, the engine. There is no such possibility for a rocket. Worse, the rocket engine fires only once in its entire lifetime. And this launch is the first and last for him, despite the result. Constructors are trying to somehow "work around" this situation. Each engine of the first stage of the Proton, after manufacturing, "burns through", that is, it starts up for a few seconds at the stand. After that, it is disassembled, the parts are subjected to flaw detection, all defects are eliminated and only then it is finally assembled and installed on the rocket. And yet this expensive event only partially saves. It turns out that during the final assembly, the defect can be introduced by the contractor either intentionally or by mistake.
link:http://samlib.ru/s/stepanow_a_n/potsemypadajtraketi.shtml

[igor_m_p]

Quote: anfil

Each engine of the first stage of the Proton

Not just "protons". Almost all engines.
And with "protons" the situation is further complicated by the fact that the fuel is very aggressive and self-igniting when the components come into contact. For this reason, the slightest defect in the fuel system can lead to an explosion, while on rockets with traditional cryogenic fuel, a similar malfunction can remain without consequences.

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Quote: sir.jonn

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

the reason is known and it’s already good, they will correct

The proton that exists today is the reason to abandon it. The hangar needs to be modified and started to exploit.

otherwise nobody is working on the "hangar"! waiting for your instructions! since it is not finished, then do not even try to send heavy satellites?

[Danash I]

Andrei Yurievich youth as usual solves all problems with a saber

[Siberian German]

you think a little what you say - a pimple on your asses. it's not fatal, but like that - the satellite fell once - and these are losses in many areas, paying compensation for pollution to Kazakhstan - two, our image falls below the plinth - three. This is not enough for you

[Ustas]

Quote: Siberian German

our image falls below the plinth - three.

And then scribblers from the USA say that Russia lost the battle for space.

[bomg.77]

Again sabotage .... And ours will again say that Uncle Vasya, father-mother mixed up the connector.!

[diff]

The feeling that guest workers also work in the rocket industry. Can I invite the FMS?

[KOH]

nasa "works" there ...

[bomg.77]

It’s not the FMS, but the FSB!

[KOH]

That's for sure ...

[Normal]

That is why I am not at all surprised?

[Humpty]

Something too often Protons fall, yet it is unpleasant. Yes, and the fish after starting a couple of days does not bite.

[pensioner]

Quote: Humpty

Yes, and the fish after starting a couple of days does not bite

A couple of days ... Lucky ...

[Thomas Neveru]

It was necessary to sell engines am

[Vadim Skeptic]

Suddenly, the launch was successful. And the accident for the enemy, so as not to guess.

[afire]

dumb fools, clearing above the ground is clearly visible, although ...

[mamont5]

Of course it does. But something is too common.

Does anyone have any data on how S.P.Korolev was dealing with the accidents? How did he have a ratio of successful and emergency starts?

[Alex 241]

Here are the statistics under Putin. I’ll look for the Queen. 44 launches of Proton-K (unsuccessful - no), and 74 launches of Proton-M (7 of them failed).
Total 7 out of 118 Proton launches

[Alex 241]

Quote: Alex 241

According to the Queen

statistics of unsuccessful launches in the USSR and the USA in the first five years and subsequent five decades.

[Normal]

Quote: Alex 241

statistics of unsuccessful launches in the USSR and the USA in the first five years and subsequent five decades.

Greetings, Alexander.
The trend, however, since 1992. That's interesting - why ???

[Alex 241]

Quote: Normal

Greetings, Alexander.

Volodya, I welcome. I have a neighbor, the kingdom of heaven to him, in the past an officer of the Strategic Missile Forces, worked for Khrunichev. According to Proton ed. 82 he responded very well. Somehow we sat with him and the head of the personnel department of Khrunichev, well, the conversation as in such In all cases, the matter was the absence of a clear personnel policy, the salaries are small, Moscow registration is required for employment, and there is a living space (complete anachronism), regular business trips, young people do not go to this work, plus commercial departments were included in the structure of enterprises, down to advertising, and you yourself understand where the money and effective managers are ............ It got to the point that they could not find the KIS engineer (control test bench) for the launches. This is so in short.

[mig31]

Such sensation, somewhere a wrecker wound up ...

[qwert]

And this pest did not prepare new personnel for production during 25 years. And all kinds of economists and lawyers there will not be able to properly assemble and launch a rocket. In addition to engineers, workers are also needed, with the discharge 6-7. And they were not cooked either.
Well and naturally purchased parts in the same China.
Unfortunately, the aerospace industry requires competent personnel with brains and hands. And in our country since 1989 of the year it was put a big ....
So, I will name the two main pests the first M.S. Gorbachev, the second B.N. Yeltsin.

[Normal]

Quote: qwert

Unfortunately, the aerospace industry requires competent personnel with brains and hands. And in our country since 1989 of the year it was put a big ....
So, I will name the two main pests the first M.S. Gorbachev, the second B.N. Yeltsin.

It’s been about a year since 2014. We still have Gorbachev and Yeltsin in power ???

[pensioner]

Quote: Normal

It’s been about a year since 2014. We still have Gorbachev and Yeltsin in power ???

Yeah ... It’s already time to stop explaining your failures with the machinations of a spotted and ebony.
The guarantee of the technical reliability of the product is control at all stages of its production (well, unless, of course, there are errors in the product design). Most likely, the insufficient reliability of products for space is connected with the fact that non-destructive testing specialists in the country are sorely lacking !! I know this firsthand. The situation is aggravated by new forms of training, which often result in a complete profanity thereof. This leads to the fact that in critical control operations sometimes specialists who are not sufficiently trained, do not have a specialized education, and some of them are generally not able to perform this work efficiently due to the lack of abilities corresponding to the complexity of the tasks to be solved. I hope that all the same in Roscosmos, things in this area are different. Still, rocketry is one of the most complicated and requires the most responsible approach.

[Alex 241]

Quote: retired

non-destructive testing specialists in the country are sorely lacking !! I know this firsthand. The situation is aggravated by new forms of training, which often result in a complete profanity thereof.

Good day Jura. I knew a person with a higher education who did not know that angular values ​​except degrees are measured in minutes and seconds. For him it was a discovery. Generation of calculators!

[Canep]

Quote: Alex 241

I knew a person with a higher education who did not know that angular values ​​except degrees are measured in minutes and seconds.

This shot probably graduated from the Institute of Physics, or the Institute of Wine and Vodka, where they only measure degrees.

[pensioner]

Good afternoon, Sasha!

Quote: Alex 241

I knew a person with a higher education who did not know that angular values ​​except degrees are measured in minutes and seconds.

Over the past almost 8 years, I have seen enough of these- . If I give examples, I will borrow your attention for a long time ...
From the last. The diameter of the pipe is 1020 mm. In cylindrical coordinates, 360 degrees. Question: how many mm. in 1 degree? The engineer could not answer.
Well, or as you like: a person with a liberal arts education (higher), with a tiny experience in the field of NDT, in 7 (!!) days receives (in Moscow ...) 5 (!!!) types of non-destructive control level 2? And upon arrival after the "training" at the workplace, he immediately gets into his hands the most complicated device of imported production and goes on a business trip to diagnose pipes for Gazprom ??? Okay, I was there, figured out ...

[Alex 241]

Quote: retired

Question: how many mm. in 1 degree?

Jura moderation does not skip the formula for a long circle with a radius of 60 mm 1 mm circumference is 1 degree 24 minutes.

[Turner38]

Everything is much more banal - a friend works at Khrunichev's branch, so according to his info the situation is as follows: the satellites do not have time to do it, they launch blanks. Then, respectively, "accident", and then get insurance. Bottom line - then one ready satellite comes out for the price of two.

[user1212]

Rave. The customer checks the satellite long before installation on the proton

[Alex 241]

Quote: Terner38

satellites do not have time to do, launch dummies.

Do they have an assembly line for assembling satellites?

[VVooVVaa]

This companion Europeans collected

[Ivan Tarasov]

Something with us with the Protons is unlucky.
Maybe it’s time to switch to another rocket - transfer the carrier?
Or something to fix in the conservatory?
It hurts too often to fall with our companions, they don’t fall with foreign ones, but they always fall and fall with ours ...

[Junior, I]

It hurts too often to fall with our companions, with foreign ones more than once, but with ours they always fall and fall ...

That's it, it's time to do the stripping at the plants, and during the start check everyone for tolerance, without exception.

[PN]

So I noticed this too. We launch foreign satellites and astronauts without problems (pah three times), but like our satellites, we can’t cant on the cant.

[Bayonet]

Quote: PN

We launch foreign satellites and astronauts without problems

With foreigners, they also fell, they just started less. And with each failure it becomes even less, and this is money!

[igor_m_p]

Quote: Ivan Tarasov

They often fall with our companions, they don’t fall with foreign ones,

And with foreigners fell, though quite a while ago ...

[il2.chewie]

When will the chatter end and the landing begin?

[Nickanor]

At the NGO named after Lavochkina has already begun!

[yulka2980]

Now more than ever it is necessary to be careful about such things, because the whole world is watching our every mistake! Now the Americans will laugh at Rogozin’s proposal to fly into space with a trampoline! We are RUSSIA! We must keep the mark !!!

[snifer]

an interesting coincidence isn’t it, we refuse to sell them engines and then we have a rocket

[Junior, I]

We have saboteurs for a long time. It is necessary to calculate and bring them down.

[Junior, I]

Too frequent crash reports. It suggests that the enemy entrenched in production.

[Bayonet]

Quote: Younger, I

enemies dug in production

For centuries, we have blamed mythical enemies for all our failures. Enemies dug in their heads, as Professor Preobrazhensky would say!

[Nickanor]

(c) Devastation in the heads, not in closets!

[awg75]

THE ENEMIES HAVE NOT GATHERED IN PRODUCTION, AND IN MANAGEMENT. EVERYBODY WANTS MORE WALLETS TO RUB YOUR RUBBER INTO QUALITY DAMAGE. THESE CHESTISTS IN THE LEADERSHIP OF SPACE AGENCY HAVE ALREADY ALREADY TO INVITE TO THE PROSECUTOR'S OFFICE. BILLIONS OF RUBLES NITS TO THE WIND LAUNCH

[Vlad Gore]

Quote: qwert

Well and naturally purchased parts in the same China.

Himself to such a stupid thought or in the State Department prompted?

[jovanni]

Unfortunately, the continuity of generations is not an empty phrase. Those specialists who worked with Korolev are no longer with us. A change did not come to them. And now, one textbook does not learn new ones. Thanks to the Timurov-Gaidarites, who drove all young people into lawyers and economists.

[Bayonet]

Quote: Jovanni

Thanks to the Timurites-Gaidarites who drove all young people into lawyers and economists.

In general, nobody drove anyone anywhere. Young people themselves chose (and mother’s dads advised) where to go to study, to work less and get more! You yourself know this very well.

[wizarden]

Express-AM4 is the first Russian high-energy spacecraft to be launched, launched on August 18, 2011, which was not put into its calculated orbit due to the abnormal operation of the upper stage. Recognized permanently lost on August 30, 2011. Dropped from near-earth orbit on Sunday, March 25, 2012 and flooded in the Pacific Ocean.

An internal investigation showed that the accident was the result of a software error and negligence of space workers due to the lack of proper control by Roscosmos.

The funds received from insurance companies ordered a duplicate of the satellite - Express AM4R. This satellite was also lost on a failed launch on May 16, 2014.

===================

The second time it is not possible to display a specific satellite. Couple, I don’t believe in such coincidences ...

[Bayonet]

As they wrote there the other day - "The dizzying success of Roskosmos, accompanied by the obvious decline of foreign manned astronautics ..." Article "Space trampoline for the USA. Tribute to Dmitry Rogozin."

[adok]

guys not healthy this thing. superjet planes are falling, proton rockets are falling. ё-mobile does not drive.

God forbid you decide to fight with America. you’ll kill all your neighbors and yourself with your own missiles that will not reach the United States. only some will already have nuclear warheads ...

[lewerlin53rus]

Quote: adok

ditch all your neighbors and yourself with your own missiles that will not reach the United States. only some will already have nuclear warheads ...

These ones fly just fine.

[semuel]

Oh, it’s not about the USA right now, no matter how we can handle it without you.

[Bayonet]

Quote: adok

superjet planes are falling

And many of them attacked? In Indonesia, I crashed into a mountain because of gouging "The warning system worked in the form of an audible warning:" Ground ahead, go to climb, "and then repeated six more times:" Avoid the ground. "However, the report says, the commander turned off the system," because I assumed the warnings were due to database problems. "

[saag]

if after this case the deliveries of engines under the slogan of continuing cooperation will continue, then this will already be a regularity

[sv68]

now they will show us the switchman-electrician who has connected the connectors incorrectly, or has done something similar, the bosses will get a reprimand and a bonus and everything will remain as it is — a lack of specialists, low qualifications of newly hired employees, low salaries and lack of native microelectronics. I know the last point from an engineer working for the space industry, what Russia produces itself does not satisfy customer needs, and foreign microelectronics is either inaccessible or of terrible quality

[builder]

In Russia, lately the main thing is not the end product but the development of money. While projects will be managed by effective managers and not by designers and engineers, everything will fall and collapse.

[DGZ]

But how Europeans and Americans will rejoice. They will suck everything from all sides. They say-sanctions are in effect !!!

In the light of recent months, it seems to me that making rocket engines will be getting better and better ... And in this case, they probably used engines that ran out of shelf life.

Interestingly 1 billion rubles to whom the state should return. Is the Express-AM4R communications satellite private or public? Worked for defense or for businessmen? In the second case - not a bit

[user1212]

"Express-AM4R" was created by the European company EADS Astrium on the order of the Russian satellite operator FSUE "Cosmic Communication"

[_umka_]

The fifth column is her work.

[mgfly]

MDA ...
after such incidents, talk about "sanctions in the field of space interactions with the United States" brings a smile (
but I believe in ours! will be corrected!

[Dragon-y]

For more than 20 years, space enterprises have been aggressively ruined, why be surprised?
We have already written above - almost everything has left the old man, no new ones have appeared. Think about who collects the missiles ...
Now they will investigate, find out ... who to shoot ... they will say that "everything was collected under the previous leadership" ...
While there were military men at Baikonur, and special acceptance at the factories - missiles did not fall so often.

[Balamyt]

Quote: Siberia

to overclock the whole guide to the mother, to send the bolts and nuts with the keys

That's just what you can not do in any case!

[AlNick]

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

unpleasant, but not fatal, the reason is known and it’s already good, they will correct it.

On the face of "work" a special category of professionals, which are called effective managers.

[KBPC50]

No, not "managers" - m u d ..... mi!

[Balamyt]

Our children are good! And everything that we do with our hands does not fit into any framework! Although recently the situation has begun to change in a positive direction! There would be less mediocrity of leaders at all levels, and in general the situation would change within a year or two!

[Glavmec]

Quote: qwert

And this pest did not prepare new personnel for production during 25 years. And all kinds of economists and lawyers there will not be able to properly assemble and launch a rocket. In addition to engineers, workers are also needed, with the discharge 6-7. And they were not cooked either.
Well and naturally purchased parts in the same China.
Unfortunately, the aerospace industry requires competent personnel with brains and hands. And in our country since 1989 of the year it was put a big ....
So, I will name the two main pests the first M.S. Gorbachev, the second B.N. Yeltsin.

Well, let's say there is no 7th grade, but that's not the point. The personnel policy is really shitty: he himself worked as a 5th grade turner at 403 ARZ, they did not pay a salary for half a year, he left in the ranks of his own kind, so now only the Angara airline is left from the plant - this is a division of the plant, a flight test shop. But in terms of industries, one must suppose, this is not the case everywhere: I left the oil industry a long time ago after the aviation industry, so now I have welders with higher education! And in general, the issue of prestige plays an important role in the personnel policy for working specialties - this is where to meet a milling machine operator now, so that he is a Hero of the Socialist. labor was?

[Alex66]

My modest experience in the defense industry suggests that the reason lies in personnel policy. At the enterprise where I worked as shop managers, two guys were put up in a little over 20 years, but their dads had high positions. Similarly, at other enterprises relatives are appointed for monetary positions, and who knows what is not going to do in market conditions, they are going to work for these relatives.

[KBPC50]

Quote: Canep

It’s not even a matter of heptyl, but of Proton, every launch of the lottery in Baikonur has interestingly thought of opening a tote.

It's time, it's time to open the sweepstakes, you see, the next one on the "corner and bank" would pay off, although the Americans will pay some "gagger" and the sweepstakes will not help. Are you organs asleep?

[Strashila]

Quote: AlNick

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

unpleasant, but not fatal, the reason is known and it’s already good, they will correct it.

On the face of "work" a special category of professionals, which are called effective managers.

That's just the point that effective managers have nothing to do with it, they did it like in that joke ... they didn’t move the beds, but they changed the staff ... the effect is the same.
Rot, somewhere among the manufacturers or those who are responsible for preparing the launch ... the programmers screwed up or the most commonplace, they filled in fuel without preliminary degassing ... the turbine was in the snot.

[Weniamin]

As they already got it. Then pour goryachki, then add up. Let the marriage out of pocket compensate.

[vovan50]

Why do Protons fall only at the launch of Russian satellites? Foreign are put into orbit without problems.

[rereture]

In defense of our space. All the same, the production of a rocket launcher is a laborious and technologically complex thing. Any mistake can lead to such consequences.

Here, many alarmists shout that our missiles do not fly. So, in 2013, we made 32 launches, of which one is not successful, and one is partially unsuccessful. China in 2013 made 9 launches. of which one is not successful. The United States made 19 launches, not successful. Now compare 19, 32, 9. And think whether everything is as bad as painting.

[silverwolf88]

It may be enough to carry out tests with an expensive payload ... it is time to re-certify the rocket ... conduct tests of the carrier (possibly according to a shortened program) to test new systems ...

[Oml]

Samara TsSKB "Progress", Russia's largest manufacturer of rocket technology, proposed creating a new generation rocket.
http://pronedra.ru/space/2014/05/16/rakety-metan/
Just not the next money laundering.

[Zomanus]

Well, crying here makes no sense. We need to work through the mistakes, work through the processes.

[kelevra]

The second launch is covered, it looks like a diversion!

[pvn53]

The second consecutive unsuccessful launch - this is where the work for military counterintelligence is. This is where the system is viewed. The simplest thing is to blame it on someone.