Military Review

Small weapons for a large army

52
This article provides an overview of the various types of infantry weapons used by the armed forces of the People’s Liberation Army of China. Most of the photos presented in this article demonstrate the armament of PLA units located in Hong Kong.


Small weapons for a large army


Hong Kong returned to the fold of mainland China 1 July 1997 of the year and is a region in which carefully selected PLA soldiers serve, ranging in number from 4 to 5 to thousands of people. Of course, this is not a very large contingent in comparison with the total number of the Chinese army, but it should be understood that these servicemen are a symbol of China’s political and military power. Probably, therefore, units located on the territory of a special administrative region, which is Hong Kong, are among the first to receive the latest weapons.

We consider a total of nine types of infantry weapons used in Hong Kong, and which, of course, are used in other regions of China. In the designation of weapons, we will use the designation adopted in China itself. For example, Western sources designate Chinese weapons using a hyphen, while in China itself a designation without a hyphen is used, for example, QLZ87 and not QLZ-87.



Pistol QSZ92

The gun QSZ92 manufactured by Norinco Corp. is a standard semi-automatic pistol used by the PLA since the end of the 1990-s. It is believed that work on it began in the year 1994. There are two versions of this gun, QSZ92 -9 chambered for 9 × 19 mm Parabellum and QSZ92-5.8 chambered for 5.8 × 21mm. The frame of the gun is made of polymer, automation works using the recoil energy in the short course of the barrel. Locking is done by turning the barrel.

The capacity of a magazine with a staggered arrangement of cartridges is 15 cartridges for the 9mm caliber and 20 for the 5.8mm caliber. Shock trigger mechanism double action. To mount a flashlight or laser pointer, the gun has guides under the barrel.

The 9 mm version of the pistol is designed for soldiers (for example, special units), and the commanders and officers are given the version for the 5.8 mm cartridge. The gun is widely used by the police in China. In addition to China, the gun is also in service with the People’s Republic of Bangladesh and Cambodia.

TTX pistol QSZ92

Weight: 760 grams;
Overall length: 190 mm;
Barrel length: 111 mm;
Magazine capacity: 15 cartridges (9mm), 20 cartridges (5.8mm);
Initial bullet speed: 350 m / s;
Effective range: 50 meters.



Silent Submachine Gun QCW05

Silent submachine gun QCW05 designed for chambered caliber 5.8x21 mm and entered service with the PLA in 2001 year, after winning the competition for the replacement of submachine guns - Type 79 and 85. Externally, the QCW05 bears a resemblance to the Chinese QBZ95 assault rifle. The development of the submachine gun QCW05 was jointly carried out by the 208 Research Institute and Jianshe Industries Corporation located in Chongqing. The latter is part of the China South Industries Group. The QCW05 submachine gun was officially unveiled at the 2005 International Police Show in Beijing.

QCW05 is made according to the bullpup scheme and automatic with a free gate, shooting is conducted from the open shutter. In the design of the butt used polymers. A submachine gun can shoot in single, in 3 bursts and shot and automatic modes. Shop 4-x in-line and is designed for 50 cartridges. Similar to a Type 95 rifle, magazine extraction is possible only on the right side, which creates some inconvenience for left-handers. The rate of fire of the submachine gun QCW05 is intentional, understated in order to improve the control when shooting. Target folding.

In the PLA, the QCW05 submachine gun is designed for ground and air transport crews. The compact dimensions make the QCW05 convenient for use in confined spaces, such as inside a car. Of course, the QCW05 is also designed to arm the special forces, hence the use of a removable silencer. For silent shooting, the subsonic cartridge 5.8 × 21mm DCV05 is also used.

There is a version of JS chambered for 9 mm, which is used mainly by the military police. The JS submachine gun has a magazine capacity designed for 30 cartridges. Performed without a silencer, the submachine gun is designated QCQ05.

TTX submachine gun QCW05

Weight: 2,2 kg;
Overall length: 500 mm;
Barrel length: 250 mm;
Magazine capacity: 30 cartridges (9mm), 50 cartridges (5.8mm);
Initial bullet speed: 150 m / s (subsonic cartridge);
Effective range: 50 meters (with a silencer).



QBU88 (Type 88) sniper rifle

QBU88 semi-automatic sniper rifle caliber 5.8 mm is similar in purpose to the domestic SVD and the American M110. This weapon is one of the first that was created by Chinese gunsmiths, chambered for 5.8х42mm. Judging by the designation Type 88, the rifle was adopted by the PLA, somewhere at the end of the 1980-x or in the subsequent period.

The gas-assisted QBU88 sniper rifle fires heavier 5.8x42mm cartridge, but can also fire with standard 5.8 mm caliber cartridges used for Type 95 assault rifles. The gas piston with a short stroke is located above the barrel, the bolt has three lugs. The rifle is equipped with a standard diopter sight, but is usually equipped with an optical 95-x. Perhaps the installation and other sights and equipment on the short mounting plate. As a rule, the rifle is equipped with a bipod.

The QBU88 sniper rifle is used by both PLA units and the Chinese police.

TTX sniper rifle QBU88 (Type 88)

Weight: 4,2 kg;
Overall length: 920 mm;
Barrel length: 620 mm;
Store capacity: 10;
Effective range: 800 meters.



QJY88 machine gun

A single machine gun Type 88 (Type 88) chambered for 5.8х42mm, replaced the machine gun Type 67. The machine gun is equipped with bipods, and can also be installed on the machine. In the case of installation on the machine gun machine calculation is 2 person.

Despite its designation Type 88, the machine gun entered service with the PLA at the beginning of this millennium. It is alleged that this light machine gun from Norinco’s storerooms is not very popular among the troops, yielding to its predecessor who used more powerful 7.62x54R cartridges. The new machine gun, being lighter than the 67 Type machine gun, is significantly heavier than its foreign counterparts, such as the FN Minimi.

The QJY88 machine gun uses gas automatics with a long stroke gas piston and easily replaceable barrels. The power of the machine gun comes from a plastic box, installed on the left side in which the tape on 200 cartridges is laid.

TTX machine gun QJY885

Weight: kg 11,8 (kg kg 16 with a machine);
Overall length: 1160 mm;
Barrel length: 600 mm;
Magazine capacity: 200 cartridges (mm 5.8x42);
Initial bullet speed: 895 m / s;
Effective range: 800 meters.



Heavy machine gun QJZ89 (Type 89)

The QJZ89 heavy machine gun, chambered for the 12.7 caliber mm, is the Chinese equivalent of the M2. 50 machine gun of the caliber widely used in NATO. The machine gun is designed for use in infantry orders, and for installation on equipment. In addition, the machine gun can be used to defeat lightly armored vehicles and air targets. The standard calculation of the machine gun consists of three people, and it is in service with the battalion or company level.

Automation machine gun mixed type uses both recoil energy and the energy of powder gases. The machine gun, as a rule, is installed on the machine, it has tape feed. The 50 tape box is installed on the left side. Quick-release barrels are equipped with a massive muzzle brake. As a rule, the machine gun is equipped with an optical sight. The rate of fire is 450-600 shots per minute.

The QJZ89 machine gun was first introduced to the public in 1997.

TTX machine gun QJY889
Weight: kg 17,5 (kg kg 26 with a machine);
Overall length: 1920 mm;
Barrel length: 1002 mm;
Magazine capacity: 50 cartridges (mm 12.7x108);
Initial bullet speed: 825 m / s;
Effective range: 1500 meters.



35 mm automatic grenade launcher QLZ87

The development of an automatic grenade launcher for the needs of the PLA began in the 1980-s by the Chinese corporation Norinco at the end of the 1980-s, relying on the achievements of the Soviet gunsmiths in creating the AGS-17. As a result, in the middle of the 1990-ies, a variant of a grenade launcher under the designation W87. On the basis of this development, an automatic QLZ87 grenade launcher was created, which became the first weapon of this type adopted by the PLA. He became an infantry fire support weapon at the level of a platoon and company.

The designers tried to make weapons as easy as possible, even to the detriment of firepower. It is for this reason that the grenade has a rigid locking of the barrel with the help of a butterfly valve, and the automatic grenade launcher's gas-discharge automatics are similar to the M16 rifle when the powder gases directly interact with the bolt group. This reduces the number of moving parts, which leads to weight reduction. Also, to reduce the weight of the designers refused to tape power in favor of the store.

QLZ87 can be used by one soldier with a bipod or calculating with a machine. If the machine is used, the grenade launcher can turn 360 degrees and the elevation angle ranges from -10 to 70 degrees, which theoretically gives him the opportunity to fight low-flying aircraft. The standard sighting device is a 3-x optical scope. The QLZ87 grenade launcher is also installed on vehicles and boats.

Depending on the type of target, the grenade launcher can be loaded with 35x32mm high-explosive fragmentation, cumulative, incendiary and smoke grenades. The rate of fire reaches 45 minute shots. Grenades are loaded into 6 or 15 charging stores. 35 mm grenades, weighing 250 grams, have a larger radius of destruction (10 meters declared) and armor penetration (up to 80 mm) compared to the 40mm grenade of the American McNXX grenade launcher.

A feature of the QLZ87 grenade launcher is the position of the fire control handle (pistol grip), which is located on the right side at an angle to the horizontal plane. The disadvantages of a grenade launcher include low rate of fire and the capacity of the store. Probably, the operating experience of the QLZ87 grenade launcher explains why the new Chinese automatic grenade launcher QLZ04 returned to tape power.

TTX automatic grenade launcher QLZ87

Weight: kg 20 (heavy version);
Overall length: 970 mm;
Store capacity: 6 or 15 grenades;
Initial bullet speed: 200 m / s;
Effective range: 1750 meters.



50 mm QLT89 grenade launcher

QLT89 is a portable grenade launcher caliber 50 mm, the design of which was finally formed at the beginning of 1990-s. The weight of the grenade launcher is only 3,8 kg, and it can provide fire support at a distance of up to 800 meters. The main elements of the grenade launcher are the launch tube, the stop, the trigger mechanism and the carrying strap. For aiming the grenade launcher is equipped with a folding sight.

The advantages of the QLT89 grenade launcher include ease of handling, as well as the fact that it does not produce flashes or smoke, and has low noise when fired. The PLA 50 mm grenade launcher is used at the level of platoons and mouths. The main ammunition of the grenade launcher is a fragmentation grenade weighing 700 grams and 330 mm long, which breaks into 800 fragments and defeats within 16 radius of meters. Also in the range are incendiary and lighting grenades. To date, there is an improved version of the grenade launcher under the designation QLT89A.

TTX 50mm QLZ89 grenade launcher

Weight: 3,8 kg;
Overall length: 600 mm;
Effective range: 800 meters.



82 mm mortar PP87

82 mm mortar PP87, manufactured by Norinco Corporation, has replaced the mortar Type 67 (Type 67). The mortar is used at the battalion level and can fire with three types of ammunition - high-explosive, smoke and light.

TTX 80mm PP87 grenade launcher

Weight: 39,7 kg;
Overall length: 1400 mm;
Effective range: 120 - 4660 meters.



120 mm PF98 rocket launcher

The last on our list is the Norinco Corporation anti-tank rocket launcher, which replaced the obsolete Type 78 and 65 recoilless guns. The development of these weapons began in the 1990s, as a result of which, the PF98 ranked between individual rocket launchers and more sophisticated anti-tank guided installations. For destruction tanks, armored vehicles, bunkers and fortifications used 120 mm rockets.

For the first time this weapon was demonstrated in the Macao garrison in 1999 year, and today PF98 is widely used in the PLA at the battalion and company level. 120 mm missile, can be high-explosive, or cumulative with the declared armor penetration in 800 mm. The cumulative missile weighs 6.3 kg and has a tandem warhead. The high-explosive missile weighs 7.5 kg and contains 120 steel balls and incendiary material that can penetrate 400 mm of armor (English text: "... 400 mm of armor").

PF98 is available in two versions. In the first, the grenade launcher is equipped with a telescopic sight (with a channel for night vision), a laser rangefinder, a fire control computer and an LED display. In the second version, the grenade launcher is equipped with a simple 4-x multiple optical sight (with a channel for night vision). The first version assumes greater efficiency because it allows you to perform the necessary ballistic calculations for the grenade launcher operator.

In 2010, a modified version of the Hong Kong garrison was displayed under the designation PF98A. Visually, the new version features a modified fire control unit, which implies increased accuracy and fewer control buttons (12 instead of 25). In 2006, the rocket was also upgraded. According to the information provided by the PLA, the new grenade launcher has a 1.25 meter length and a weight of about 7 kg. Early launch tube made of fiberglass weighed about 10 kg.

The calculation of the PF98 grenade launcher can be from one to two people when firing from the machine or from the shoulder. From the moment a target is detected before a missile launch, 10 seconds are required, and in a minute it can be released from 4 to 6 missiles. In addition to China, the 120 mm rocket launcher PF98 purchased Bangladesh, Indonesia and Zimbabwe.

TTX 120mm РР87 rocket launcher

Weight: 29 kg;
Overall length: 1191 mm;
Effective range: 800 - 1800 meters (depending on the type of rocket).
Originator:
http://www.guns.yfa1.ru/maloe-oruzhie-dlya-bolshoj-armii.html
52 comments
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  1. 225chay
    225chay 16 May 2014 09: 32
    +7
    Yes, the Chinas are arming in earnest ...
  2. silberwolf88
    silberwolf88 16 May 2014 09: 46
    +12
    It should be noted ... they copy very well ... and make a few of their useful improvements ...
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Turik
      Turik 16 May 2014 11: 51
      +6
      Yeah .. almost everything is copied.

      120mm grenade launcher copy of either "vampire" or TOW /
      2 machine guns - obviously copies of "Cords" and "Cliffs".
      Sniper - looks like a SVD in the housing of the M110.

      As for the pistol and the PP, judging by the appearance is difficult. To see the filling, but who will show it to me))
      The mortar is only of Chinese design - you can add a pipe to a steel plate without straining your brains.
      1. mrDimkaP
        mrDimkaP 16 May 2014 14: 10
        0
        No. Only machine guns were copied and some changes were made. The Chinese are still not so ...
      2. the47th
        the47th 18 May 2014 14: 03
        +1
        Modern weapons, which are now mass-produced, were created 50 years ago. The creation of weapons now is the layout of ready-made solutions. In addition, the Chinese designers gave the Chinese documentation for the AK, and on its basis you can create everything from the PP, ending with a machine gun and a sniper rifle.
    3. Argon
      Argon 16 May 2014 12: 14
      +14
      The presence of our own cartridge, the original caliber, speaks of a well-formed scientific and design school in China. Any mention of copying is no longer appropriate. And if we take into account that not a single sample (still!) Built on the Russian Federation has been adopted Based on the polymer frame / shutter box, it is impossible not to admit that for many points we could learn from them.
      1. Turik
        Turik 16 May 2014 12: 56
        +1
        Caliber here and?

        If you are given a cartridge from a magazine (only a cartridge), you will be able to reliably find out from which weapon the magazine with a cartridge.
        It is unlikely that there will be many thousands of options. So why, by "pure coincidence", the weapon itself, even in the form of figs, can be distinguished from what was made 20-30 years ago?

        I am silent about aircraft and tanks, according to your logic, a new caliber of a tank gun is synonymous with the word "new tank".

        Is this an apparently new bomb in an airplane?
      2. Turik
        Turik 16 May 2014 12: 56
        +1
        Caliber here and?

        If you are given a cartridge from a magazine (only a cartridge), you will be able to reliably find out from which weapon the magazine with a cartridge.
        It is unlikely that there will be many thousands of options. So why, by "pure coincidence", the weapon itself, even in the form of figs, can be distinguished from what was made 20-30 years ago?

        I am silent about aircraft and tanks, according to your logic, a new caliber of a tank gun is synonymous with the word "new tank".

        Is this an apparently new bomb in an airplane?
      3. SLX
        SLX 16 May 2014 16: 24
        +9
        Quote: Argon
        The presence of its own cartridge, the original caliber, speaks of a well-formed scientific-design school in China.


        And what is the name of this "own cartridge" and what is the "original caliber" of the Chinese?

        And the formed scientific-design school is characterized by slightly different and much more numerous things - for example, independently developed theories, seriously substantiated original technical solutions, own material science views, and so on, and so on and so forth.

        And without fail, the achievements of such a well-formed school are the results of technological R&D implemented in the production. And with this alone, the Chinese still have problems and will still be for a long time.

        Quote: Argon
        Any mention of copying is no longer appropriate.


        This is yes! Their "formed scientific and design school" has not yet reached such heights - exact copying is a much more difficult task than putting into production something of their own, which can be changed.

        Quote: Argon
        And if we take into account that not a single sample (still!) Built on the basis of a polymer frame / shutter box has been adopted for the Russian Federation, then we cannot but admit that we could learn from them in many respects.


        You can always learn from anyone - those who want to do this, even from the Papuans will find something interesting for further reflection.

        In the USSR, polymer frames (and not only them) were started in the 60s. and one of the first experimental Soviet pistols with a polymer frame was the PM in the late 60s, which was worked out and which could be put into mass production. And China at that time continued to courageously master the production of AK-47.

        The approaches to the use of polymers in small arms in the USSR were put on a scientific basis, and the theory was tested in practice - read at least Malimon about the epic with plastic parts for Kalashnikov machine guns and machine guns.

        As for the adopted samples of pistols with polymer frames, then in the Russian Federation there are them - SPS and GSh-18. But the matter is not only in them - in Russia there is a scientific base, supported by the rich experience of numerous experiments.

        Therefore, there are no problems in the Russian Federation to create "plastic" weapons similar to those in the West. The trouble is that such military weapons do not stand up to our requirements, which differ significantly from Western (and from Chinese) ones in a tougher direction - for example, Western plastics do not keep our Siberian frosts, despite all the assurances of the manufacturers. Well, and commercial weapons have their own spectrum of problems, which in no way rest on our scientific or design weaknesses.
        1. s1н7т
          s1н7т 16 May 2014 21: 01
          +3
          Plus, because for many years I was a witness to a conversation with Kalashnikov - why not make stores transparent? It’s clear why. He said transparent ones do not stand up to requirements.
        2. Argon
          Argon 16 May 2014 21: 07
          +4
          Full demogogy, not anything concrete (by the way, the mother of talent is short). About polymers, it turned out to be in the Siberian frosts, I thought there was a problem in a radical change in the technological cycle (in fact, requiring a restructuring of the plant). "sore corn" - but it was not adopted), the PP-18 would be more suitable, but it did not pass the GI and was adopted only by the Ministry of Internal Affairs. Obviously for dear Turik and SLX, the question of the cartridge is akin to the rhetorical "about a chicken and an egg", Well, as they say, let's hope "time heals." That's just for some reason, most manufacturers design samples for existing ammunition, often deliberately reducing the characteristics in some way. If you need a high-quality "breakthrough", then the work begins with a cartridge, however, it can be done only POWER.
          1. SLX
            SLX 16 May 2014 22: 53
            +4
            Quote: Argon
            Complete demagogy, not something specific (by the way, brevity is the mother of talent).


            Oh yeah! But your posts are full of concrete reasoning about things that are completely unknown to you!

            Quote: Argon
            About polymers, it turned out that it was in Siberian frosts, I thought the problem here is a radical change in the technological cycle (which essentially requires restructuring the plant).


            Alas, not only in Siberian frosts. But, for example, in the requirements of the Soviet generals for short-term and long-term heat resistance. Therefore, AUG plastic during polygon tests conducted according to Soviet standards, pricked when thrown on concrete after freezing and melted when exposed to an open flame. So not everything is as simple as it seems at first glance.

            But not the point. The bottom line is that, judging by what you wrote, you have no idea about the production cycle of pistols. Therefore, you’re imagining his fundamental changes.

            In fact, the complexity of the framework, even by milling, was a percentage of the total complexity of the entire technological cycle - in it, only the operations of internal technological control occupy about a quarter. And already in the 70s, PM frameworks were cast by precision casting using investment casting followed by minimal milling and other processing. This was not just commensurate in complexity with the technology of polymer frames, but even there were fewer of them.

            Quote: Argon
            What a vulgarity to poke GSh-18m ("sore corn" - but it is not adopted),


            Vulgarity is talking about unknown things. Decree of the Government of the Russian Federation No. 166 of March 21.03. 2003 the pistol of Gryazev and Shipunov was adopted by the Moscow Region, the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the FSB under the name GSh-18 and was assigned the GRAU 6P54 index. And you can read about it even on Wiki - there would be a desire.

            Quote: Argon
            Obviously for the kind Turik and SLX, the question about the patron is akin to the rhetoric "about the chicken and the egg", well, as they say, let's hope "time heals".


            I don’t know how amiable Turik, but amiable SLX knows about cartridges as much as you can’t learn even in ten years. For you even to look into Wiki lazily. Therefore for the amiable SLX pиtoric (from the word "pиtoric ") about an egg and a chicken does not exist.

            Quote: Argon
            Just for some reason, most manufacturers design samples for existing ammunition, often in some way knowingly reducing performance.


            The answer to this question has long been known.

            Quote: Argon
            If you need a high-quality "breakthrough", then the work begins with the cartridge, however, this can only be done by POWER.


            In the State, a qualitative breakthrough begins with research and development work on the formation of new views on a new weapon system based on an analysis of the shortcomings of the existing weapon-ammunition complexes arising from changes in combat tactics. Not too difficult for you?

            But a separate commercial company is able to make a qualitative breakthrough. For example, the .338 LM cartridge is a quality breakthrough without the participation of the Power.
    4. Fenia04
      Fenia04 17 May 2014 20: 15
      0
      Only always the problem is that the grades of steel that they use are always worse, alas. Because of this, the resource is lower.
      1. anomalocaris
        anomalocaris 18 May 2014 03: 46
        +1
        The problem of materials for China is very acute, but, believe me, they solve it and will definitely solve it. Only this takes time.
  3. mirag2
    mirag2 16 May 2014 10: 09
    +2
    Many thanks for this article are very interesting samples, and most importantly in one place I have not met so much about Chinese weapons.
  4. mirag2
    mirag2 16 May 2014 10: 11
    0
    I’ll even say thanks again!
  5. Al_lexx
    Al_lexx 16 May 2014 10: 42
    +2
    Thank you, it was interesting to read.
  6. The comment was deleted.
    1. Ruskiye
      Ruskiye 16 May 2014 18: 01
      0
      So they "eat". In Chinese textbooks, the entire Far East is marked as China. While the Russian Federation is playing in the Crimea, China is attached to the back //.
      1. smirnov
        smirnov 16 May 2014 22: 04
        0
        So many people have already heard about these notorious "Chinese textbooks", maybe that would not be unfounded, would they have presented it for review?
        1. Ruskiye
          Ruskiye 19 May 2014 17: 24
          -1
          There was news in USA about the arrival of Merkel in China. Google

          "A Merkel, a Map, a Message to China?" Foreign Post
          "Chinese perplexed by Merkel's gifting of map" China week
          "Angela Merkel's historical China map flap" Sydney Morning news
  7. Witamin72
    Witamin72 16 May 2014 10: 52
    +3
    interesting, concise, capacious and all in essence. great review!
  8. inkass_98
    inkass_98 16 May 2014 11: 20
    +3
    Thank you for the article. Everything is very interesting, but, as always, when reading articles about the wonders of Chinese engineering, the feeling of deja vu did not leave. I saw everything somewhere.
    There was doubt about the logic of fastening the bipod of a sniper rifle to the barrel, yet an extra load, the effect on ballistics, etc.
    But the fact that they invented the 5,8 caliber for themselves, speaks of research in this area, ours will not dare to move away from 5,45.
  9. SLX
    SLX 16 May 2014 12: 13
    +1
    "Infantry weapons" are powerful!

    Norinco Corporation's QSZ92 is the standard semi-automatic pistol used by the PLA since the late 1990s. ... The gun is widely used by the Chinese police.


    So is it an infantry weapon or a cop?

    82 mm mortar PP87

    82 mm mortar PP87, manufactured by Norinco Corporation, has replaced the mortar Type 67 (Type 67). The mortar is used at the battalion level and can fire with three types of ammunition - high-explosive, smoke and light.

    TTX 80mm PP87 grenade launcher

    Weight: 39,7 kg;
    Overall length: 1400 mm;
    Effective range: 120 - 4660 meters.


    So is PP87 a mortar or a grenade launcher? And does it have 82 mm or 80 mm?

    Damn, well, there is no knowledge to correctly write "small arms and melee weapons", so when copy-pasting at least the eyes were included.
  10. Sergeantpro
    Sergeantpro 16 May 2014 13: 01
    +2
    Quote: Argon
    And if we take into account that in the Russian Federation not a single sample (still!) Built on the basis of a polymer frame has been adopted


    GSH-18
    1. Argon
      Argon 16 May 2014 20: 17
      +2
      The GI passed, it was not accepted for service, it is produced in small batches (in fact, by hour orders).
  11. Ilya Mikhalych
    Ilya Mikhalych 16 May 2014 13: 20
    +4
    I wonder what kind of cartridge is 5,8x42mm, what is its effectiveness? . Probably the Chinese gunsmiths are already tired of listening to reproaches about copying and they decided to stir up their own cartridge. An interesting article, plus.
    1. report4
      report4 16 May 2014 15: 04
      0
      Quote: Ilya Mikhalych
      I wonder what kind of cartridge is 5,8x42mm, what is its effectiveness? . Probably the Chinese gunsmiths are already tired of listening to reproaches about copying and they decided to stir up their own cartridge. An interesting article, plus.

      The usual intermediate cartridge, in China since the late 90s is used. There is nothing new in it.
      Much more interesting in the article is the gun under 5.8x21. We went along the European path FN and other manufacturers of pistols.
  12. Bongo
    Bongo 16 May 2014 14: 13
    +7
    To me personally, the declared characteristics of some Chinese samples seemed overstated. For example, the Chinese 35-mm cumulative grenade of the QLZ87 automatic grenade launcher, as stated in the article, has armor penetration up to 80 mm. It turns out that this "miracle weapon" can hit the side armor of the T-72?
    I would like to remind you that the Soviet cumulative 76-mm BP-350A projectile had about such armor penetration. And this despite the fact that the stabilization of the 35-mm grenade of the Chinese AGS occurs by rotation. Maybe just in the article a typo and in the characteristics of armor penetration accidentally appeared an extra toe?
  13. report4
    report4 16 May 2014 14: 59
    +5
    QLT89 - pictured - mortar. Opisalovo "grenade" is also more like mines.
    Quote: Bongo
    For example, the Chinese 35-mm cumulative grenade automatic grenade launcher QLZ87 as stated in the article has armor penetration up to 80 mm.

    It is believed, roughly, that a cumulative grenade can penetrate armor ~ corresponding to its diameter. 80mm - you sound explicit.
    1. Bongo
      Bongo 16 May 2014 15: 11
      +5
      Quote: report4
      It is believed, roughly, that a cumulative grenade can penetrate armor ~ corresponding to its diameter. 80mm - you sound explicit.

      Undoubtedly, you can make an effective cumulative ammunition for such a small caliber, and even in a strongly twisted rifled ammunition, it is absolutely not realistic. The more powerful 40-mm American penetrates only bulletproof armor.
      1. psiho117
        psiho117 3 June 2014 22: 10
        0
        Chinese they are such Chinese ... after "flying on cables" literally in every film, everyone should already understand their craving for exaggeration. So they can write any heresy in the technical specifications, the clever one will understand that in the dimensions of a scoped 35mm shot to the AGS this is unrealistic.
  14. Nikita M
    Nikita M 16 May 2014 16: 10
    +2
    The machine gun (QJZ89), which the American M2 is charged with, looks more like a DShK, like the one that the FN-Mini (QJY88) looks like on a cookie or pkm + -. In my opinion ;)
    1. s1н7т
      s1н7т 16 May 2014 21: 02
      0
      I also got a DShK laughing
    2. The comment was deleted.
  15. Massik
    Massik 16 May 2014 17: 47
    +4
    And where is the famous Type 95 ??? The main machine somehow fell out of this article ...-
  16. uzer 13
    uzer 13 16 May 2014 20: 31
    +1
    The original Chinese cartridge 5.8 * 42 was designed taking into account the peculiarities of use in the Asia-Pacific region. The anthropological characteristics of the population, a warm climate were all taken into account. The minimum weight at maximum efficiency is the idea embodied in these munitions. This is not a fact, however. that the effectiveness of the application will remain in the presence of negative temperatures (although this, of course, is their problem)
    1. SLX
      SLX 16 May 2014 23: 06
      -1
      Quote: uzer 13
      The original Chinese cartridge 5.8 * 42 is designed taking into account the peculiarities of use in the Asia-Pacific region.


      Where does this information come from?

      Quote: uzer 13
      Anthropological characteristics of the population, a warm climate are all taken into account.


      But is it possible in more detail about the influence of the anthropological characteristics of the population on the design of the cartridge? For example, what is his return impulse and how does this impulse, which is obviously commensurate with the Soviet 5,45 and NATO 5,56, take into account anthropological features?

      Maybe the Chinese simply lagged a few decades behind the rest of the world with the transition to small-caliber weapons?

      Quote: uzer 13
      Minimum weight with maximum efficiency - this is the idea that is embedded in these ammunition.


      General Fyodorov introduced these ideas to the Chinese during the days of friendship, who throughout his life justified the expediency of developing new complexes "small-caliber cartridge - automatic individual weapon".
    2. Droid
      Droid 17 May 2014 13: 24
      +1
      Minimum weight with maximum efficiency - this is the idea that is embedded in these ammunition.

      This applies primarily to 5,45. And the Chinese cartridge is ~ 2 g heavier, 4,5 mm longer and its recoil momentum is 1,28 times greater.
      1. SLX
        SLX 17 May 2014 16: 43
        +1
        Quote: Droid
        and his recoil momentum is 1,28 times greater.


        With such an impulse of return, the Chinese have even greater problems than the AK-74, with the accuracy of fire when firing in bursts. Truly an original solution to anthropological features!

        I do not have reliable information, but I have met opinions and data that the bullet of this cartridge has, to put it mildly, not the best form factor.

        There are also a number of questions regarding the compliance of the pool with international agreements - there is no data on the thickness of the pool shell, but the Chinese are embarrassed to declare it fully compliant, and modestly mention that it is no worse than NATO. But how long has the shell of NATO bullets ceased to be defragmented at close distances?
  17. s1н7т
    s1н7т 16 May 2014 21: 12
    +3
    Another would have written that this weapon is worth. Especially small arms. And the cartridge is strange, what are the results of the application? But what pleases (we are, like, allies) is a "bullpup" - ours would have done this, with a barrel from the PKK (which is 7,62x39) - the length is like a machine gun, and the capabilities of a machine gun. I would not refuse this laughing
  18. anomalocaris
    anomalocaris 17 May 2014 01: 02
    0
    Quote: report4
    It is believed, roughly, that a cumulative grenade can penetrate armor ~ corresponding to its diameter. 80mm - you sound explicit.

    I wonder who is considered? This statement was true for the cumulative ammunition of the 30s - 40s of the 20th century. Since then, a lot of water has flowed. Already in the 60s, the armor penetration of cumulative shells reached 2,5-4 calibers. So it’s not a fact ...
    1. schizophrenic
      schizophrenic 17 May 2014 12: 10
      0
      Also a long time ago an article appeared about cartridges for special forces. Smoothbore cartridge 12 gauge is able to penetrate up to 5 calibers of armor. Something like this.
      1. Bongo
        Bongo 17 May 2014 13: 32
        +1
        That is, the 18,5-mm cartridge of the 12 caliber with the 40-gr bullet is capable of breaking through the 90-mm armor? what
      2. anomalocaris
        anomalocaris 17 May 2014 15: 25
        0
        Quite. Honestly, there is nothing special about this. The only question is the necessary striking element ...
      3. schizophrenic
        schizophrenic 17 May 2014 21: 08
        0
        Quote: schizophrenic
        Smoothbore cartridge 12 gauge

        Slightly mistaken in the formulation of the cumulative cartridge for smooth-bore weapons 12 gauge.
        1. anomalocaris
          anomalocaris 18 May 2014 03: 43
          +1
          Maybe it's still a cumulative bullet? Although there have been attempts to create a cartridge in which a cumulative effect was used to throw a projectile.
          You can portray this, but there’s no point. And here the matter is not so much in the general weakness of such an ammunition, but in its dimensions, in which it is very difficult to accommodate both a cumulative charge and a reliable fuse.
    2. Bongo
      Bongo 17 May 2014 13: 17
      +1
      Quote: anomalocaris
      Already in the 60, the armor penetration of cumulative shells reached 2,5-4 calibers.

      This is true for RPGs, ATGMs, or smooth-bore artillery shells. In shells stabilized by rotation, it is not possible to achieve such armor penetration. In the Chinese 35-mm AGS, grenades are stabilized precisely by rotation.
      1. anomalocaris
        anomalocaris 17 May 2014 15: 23
        +1
        Quite possible. Not only that, achieved. Just by the 60s they calculated the cumulative effect.
        40 mm cumulative projectile
        - The 40x53 mm M430 (M430 A1) shaped-charge high-explosive fragmentation round was developed by the US state arsenal (instead of the M383) for the Mk 19 automatic grenade launchers.
        The grenade provides at a zero angle of penetration penetration of a steel plate 50 mm thick and, at the same time, defeat of manpower. It is equipped with a holodonic fuse, has a notched body and a metal lead belt. The sleeve is aluminum, two-chamber.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. The comment was deleted.
  19. Denimax
    Denimax 17 May 2014 13: 05
    +1
    Quote: report4
    It is believed, roughly, that a cumulative grenade can penetrate armor ~ corresponding to its diameter. 80mm - you sound explicit.

    Why are you ringing? A cumulative 30 mm projectile from the Apache cannon pierces 50 mm of armor, a rocket from the Cornet 1200 mm. It is hard to imagine a 1200 mm caliber rocket. smile
    1. Bongo
      Bongo 17 May 2014 13: 19
      +1
      Quote: Denimax
      Cumulative 30 mm projectile from the Apache cannon

      belay Since when? Can I have a reference?
      1. anomalocaris
        anomalocaris 18 May 2014 03: 53
        0
        "The M789 dual-use high-explosive projectile is the main ammunition for the M230 cannon. Its body is made of hardened steel and is equipped with a 27 g PBXN-5 explosive and a cumulative chamber. The projectile is capable of penetrating 25-mm homogeneous armor at an angle of 50 ° at a distance of 500 m . Projectile length 199,75 mm. Weight 350,5 g. "
        From here: http://www.airwar.ru/weapon/guns/m230.html
  20. Denimax
    Denimax 17 May 2014 14: 02
    +1
    Quote: Bongo
    Since when? Can I have a reference?

    This is indicated on the wiki.
    Here is another found
    http://www.atk.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/AS-LW30mm.pdf
    True 25 mm, but at an angle of 50 degrees.
    1. Massik
      Massik 18 May 2014 00: 17
      +2
      This is indicated on the wiki.
      Yeah, last resort))) I’ll transfer it to 300 let the bourgeoisie rejoice)))
      1. Massik
        Massik 18 May 2014 00: 37
        0
        ** cartridge with an armor-piercing cumulative projectile '' '' M789 '' with armor penetration of about 300 mm of homogeneous armor
        In)))) http://ru.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=McDonnell_Douglas_AH-64_Apache&stable=
        0#.D0.92.D0.BE.D0.BE.D1.80.D1.83.D0.B6.D0.B5.D0.BD.D0.B8.D0.B5
    2. Bongo
      Bongo 18 May 2014 03: 06
      +1
      Quote: Denimax
      True 25 mm, but at an angle of 50 degrees.

      M789 cumulative-fragmentation projectile The indicated armor penetration is 25 mm at an angle of 50 degrees. That is, no more than 40 mm at a right angle. Although it is doubtful, armor penetration of non-armored steel may be indicated.
      1. kplayer
        kplayer 18 May 2014 14: 52
        0
        In all cases, homogeneous cold-rolled armored steel is implied.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Denimax
        Denimax 18 May 2014 21: 37
        +1
        Roughly chirkanul on a sheet and measured, but 40 does not come out.
        I think that a purely separate cumulative charge can still penetrate 50 mm (maybe the test was carried out).
        Judging by the projectile, doubts also arise. Rotation with high frequency and a rather large fuse in the path of the cumulative jet, this is not favorable.
  21. marder4
    marder4 17 May 2014 17: 22
    0
    oh, I do not like such a rapid development of the Chinese army ...
  22. Free wind
    Free wind 17 May 2014 18: 03
    +1
    Can i ask you? How long have you been fighting alone against hundreds of Chinese? You are armed with an excellent Kalashnikov assault rifle. You have a huge handicap: one hundred Chinese, you have never been defeated, armed with weapons that you once saw somewhere. Their weapons are copies. The Chinese do not know how to fight. So the question is to everyone .... can you resist this? I think that those who consider the Chinese to be misunderstood, these are criminals sold to the Chinese.
    1. Droid
      Droid 17 May 2014 18: 09
      0
      Reply.
      You stand in a clean field and then a tank leaves you from around the corner. What will you do?
      But on the merits ... a full-scale war with China is a nuclear war.
      1. Bryn Mirddin
        Bryn Mirddin 19 May 2014 09: 05
        0
        Greetings. China is an overpopulated power. They need territories for the population, not a nuclear desert. Plus, China’s defensive doctrine ...
  23. Navy7981
    Navy7981 17 May 2014 18: 59
    0
    I do not know how in military use, but the aesthetics are quite worthy. Here, along with the engineers, the designer clearly worked. Maybe our weapons are more familiar to us, therefore it is difficult to appreciate precisely these qualities, but alas, in fact, aesthetics is our biggest misfortune. We very often, CEOs, are absolutely sure that they possess exceptional qualities in all areas. A wonderful, moreover, talented and competent engineer himself creates aesthetics. in the end, fret - 40 years cheers! However, speaking of weapons, AK may not be the most advanced machine gun in terms of aesthetics, but at present I prefer it !!! Only him!! And nothing but him!
    1. Massik
      Massik 18 May 2014 00: 29
      +1
      However, speaking of weapons, AK may not be the most advanced machine gun in terms of aesthetics, but at present I prefer it !!! Only him!! And nothing but him!
      Is laziness learning how to use another machine?) If there is a choice, why not HC 416 under 7.62 - reliability if you don’t dunk in the mud (which AK can’t tolerate for a long time, it’ll shoot, but where))) much more. As an example ... Well, it’s necessary to learn how to disassemble, to get used to, but at the output of 400-500m accuracy the AK and HC do not equal.
      1. Bryn Mirddin
        Bryn Mirddin 19 May 2014 09: 08
        0
        I support ... Mentioning also SIG. The Swiss school of weapons is quite a worthy competitor to both Germans and Belgians and Russians.
    2. psiho117
      psiho117 3 June 2014 22: 18
      0
      I still think that at least a couple of thousand sensible designers for 1,5 billions of inhabitants of the Middle Kingdom will be typed. It could well work on the machine.
  24. kplayer
    kplayer 18 May 2014 00: 46
    +2
    "Our weapons are the best!" - it is so in all countries, but everything is learned in comparison. The military departments of many countries indulge their special forces with the possibility of choosing small arms from different manufacturers - why would that be? Even in the conditions of a 5,45 mm standard, our fighters in the arsenal would not be harmed, for example, by any SIG SG submachine guns / rifles, Negev light machine guns, German breech-loading grenade launchers, light (60-mm) mortars. although I myself am not a supporter of weapons with a polymer body and a Bullpup design, due to the impossibility, if necessary, to conduct aimed shooting from the left shoulder (in urban conditions, inside buildings), I hope the fashion for them will pass.
    1. psiho117
      psiho117 3 June 2014 22: 25
      0
      Quote: kplayer
      although I myself am not a supporter of weapons with a polymer case and with the Bullpup design, because of the impossibility, if necessary, of conducting aimed fire from the left shoulder (in urban areas, inside buildings), I hope the fashion for them will pass.

      this problem has long been resolved by both the Belgians and us. FN P90, A-91M - examples of throwing the sleeve down. Still on some model I saw a throwing forward. I don’t remember only whom.
  25. corporal
    corporal 18 May 2014 23: 44
    0
    Quote: Free Wind
    How long have you been fighting alone against hundreds of Chinese?

    Fair question. After all, you will not surrender to captivity and "making a tactical withdrawal" is problematic. And everyone is armed and armed. am
  26. sychovseroga
    sychovseroga 26 May 2014 16: 25
    0
    I'm certainly not a weapons expert, but somewhere I already saw it