Military Review

"Miracle Tanks" Wehrmacht

51
"Miracle Tanks" Wehrmacht

At the Wehrmacht in response to the new Soviet Tanks T-34 and KV appeared their "miracle tanks" - "Tigers" and "Panthers". A rare Soviet-Russian film, the series "about the war" does without them, or rather, tanks depicting them.


Although their development in the Third Reich began even before World War II, the Germans had been developing a heavy tank with an 75-mm gun, with an initial speed of 650 m / s from the middle of the 30-s. This tank was needed by the Wehrmacht to fight the French heavy tanks 2C, B1bis, medium tanks D-1 and D-2. During the French campaign, the Wehrmacht collided with the British tank Mk.II "Matilda".

In addition, the tank had to fight with ground targets, long-term firing points, which is why the caliber of the Tiger cannon was increased to 88 mm. The beginning of the war with the USSR made the need for new tanks even more acute. Firms Henschel and Porsche prepared their samples for the spring of 1942, after testing they were shown to Hitler on their birthday, April 20, they adopted the Henschel tank. By August 18 released the first 4 serial "Tiger". PzKpfw VI “Tigr” (Panzerkampfwagen VI “Tiger I” Ausf E, we called it T-6 or T-VI) from the very beginning was considered a tank of high-quality reinforcement of infantry and tank units. Therefore, his main tactical unit was a battalion of two or three companies, which had support services, an air defense unit, but without its own infantry, artillery and reconnaissance. In May, the first battalions of the T-1942 — 6 and 501 — began to be built by the 502, except for the T-6, which they were armed with and the T-3 to support the Tigers, to suppress less significant targets.

In a battalion of three companies, there were T-45 units in the 6 state. In 1943, one company of T-6s each received German elite divisions: the Great Germany motorized division, the Adolf Hitler, SS divisions, the Reich and the Dead Head.



First fight: The first battleships of the 502 Battalion entered the battle, they were brought to Leningrad in August, but they walked slowly from the factory, at the beginning they brought the entire 4 units - 29 August 1942 of the year. They tried to send them on the move into battle — the Red Army conducted the Sinyavino offensive operation, but the damage immediately began, three of the 4 tanks broke down during the transition. It took about a month to troubleshoot, and the 21 Infantry Division of the 170 Army of Manstein added them to the 11 of September. And 22, they took part in the offensive against the positions of the surrounded 2 units of the Soviet shock army. The Soviet units, with their stubborn resistance, forged the army of Manstein, designed to strike at Leningrad, it was necessary to free them for the main task as soon as possible.

The first battle for the "Tigers" was unsuccessful - one was hit (due to a projectile hit the engine failed), three other cars were able to reach the Soviet positions damaged, eventually got bogged down in the furnace area and stopped. Then the Germans were able to evacuate three tanks, in the fourth they removed the equipment and blew up (at the end of November 1942 of the year). They shot up a tank with the 122-mm A-19 corps cannon model 1931 of the year. This time the Germans managed to keep their tank secret.

The next combat use of the tank will be only in January 1943: January 12 The Tigers, supporting the defense of the 96 Infantry Division, hit several T-34s, but on January 17 happiness smiled at the Red Army, captured an intact Tiger, the crew did not even destroyed the equipment. The Germans near Leningrad lost several more “Tigers”, quite routinely, without much effort by the Red Army, the tanks got stuck in the marshland, broke down and the crew left them, exploding; others shot down anti-tank guns, T-34.

Then the "Tigers" participated in the battles near Kharkov in February - March 1943, as part of Germany's elite divisions: "Great Germany", "Adolf Hitler", "Reich" and "Dead Head", as already mentioned, they were in company T -6. They also did not show any "miracles", so in the division "Great Germany" there were 9 "Tigers" and T-4 tanks were at the beginning of the battles of 85 units. From 7 March to 20, the tank crews of the division announced that they had destroyed 250 T-34, 16 T-60, or T-70, 3 KV. Of these, 30 units knocked out T-6 - 16% of the T-4 tankers' stated successes (knocked out 188 tanks), that is, they did not show any supernatural abilities of T-6.

In addition, T-6 cost 4 times as much as T-4; The upgraded T-4 was often mistaken for the Tiger, increasing its popularity, especially given the small number of Tigers.


122-mm guns arr. 1931 g. And arr. 1937 (right) in the St. Petersburg Artillery Museum.

"Tigers" in the Battle of Kursk

Only T-6 were in the “tiger” battalion of the Kursk battle, they refused from a mixed configuration, about 134 units took part in the battle. Often they led the shock units from other tanks, they were a strong opponent for Soviet artillery and tanks. The main losses in the Kursk offensive "Tigers" suffered because of explosions in mines, so 6 on July 4th the commander of the 503 heavy tank battalion reported the loss of 13 tanks in one company (from 14). Nine units were blown up by mines and demanded 1-3 days to recover. The reason for the defeat in other companies was about the same - there were few irretrievable losses, most of the destroyed tanks could be repaired.

The Miracle Tanks could not be the decisive trump card in this battle, although it cannot be said that the German offensive completely failed. The Germans penetrated deeply into the orders of the defending Soviet fronts, but the usual role was played by the usual means of the Wehrmacht: artillery, aviation, other armored vehicles. Only thanks to the powerful reserve armies did the Soviet command turn the tide of the battle in their favor.

Following the results of the combat use of the Tigers in Operation Citadel, the commander of the 3 tank corps, General Breit, issued a July directive to 21. According to it, commanders were credited with using T-6, due to their good security and firepower, against enemy tanks and anti-tank guns and as exceptions against infantry targets. It was attributed to start firing from large distances - over 1000 meters, the tank could hit enemy armored vehicles at a distance of 2000 meters and more. Armored personnel carriers, medium and light tanks, self-propelled guns must go close to the "Tigers", covering them from the flanks, expanding and consolidating success. Covering the "Tigers" from "tank hunters" should have been sappers, infantry. Sappers should explore the area before the attack due to the great danger from enemy mines. In defense, "Tigers" must be used to counterattack in at least a company. It was forbidden to spray tanks.


Pz.Kpfw.VI (H) 4 Tank Company 1 SS Panzer Division Leibstandart SS Adolf Hitler.

"Panthers"

Another legendary tank of the Wehrmacht was the medium (in German historiography, in the Soviet sources “Panther” is considered a heavy tank) tanks PzKpfw V “Panther” (Panzerkampfwagen V Panther, in the Soviet sources T-5 or T-V). Many experts consider this tank the best tank of the Wehrmacht and one of the best tanks of the Second World War. It was intended to replace the tanks T-3 and T-4, was to become the main tank of the Wehrmacht, work on it began as early as 1938.

But the possibilities of the industry did not allow this, plus it is difficult to manufacture and more expensive than planned, so we decided to equip T-5 with one battalion in each tank regiment. Its staff included 4 of company X-NUMX tank T-22 (5 platoon 4 machines and 5 commander tanks; 2 headquarters tanks (8 in communication platoon and 3 in reconnaissance platoon); an air defense unit armed with anti-aircraft guns, using anti-aircraft systems, armed with anti-aircraft guns, using anti-aircraft guns, armed with anti-aircraft tanks, and using anti-aircraft, armed with anti-aircraft units, using anti-aircraft guns, armed with anti-aircraft guns, using anti-aircraft guns, armed with anti-aircraft guns, armed with anti-aircraft tanks, using anti-aircraft guns, armed with anti-aircraft tanks, using anti-aircraft guns, armed with anti-aircraft tanks, using anti-aircraft guns, armed with anti-aircraft tanks, using anti-aircraft guns, armed with anti-aircraft tanks, using anti-aircraft guns, armed with anti-aircraft tanks, using anti-aircraft units armed with anti-aircraft tanks and X-NUMX in the reconnaissance platoon); In total there should have been 5 tanks in the battalion, but in reality there were slightly more than 96 units in the army units, in SS units 50-60.The number of tanks was reduced by state: first they were reduced to 64 machines, then to 17, and by spring 14 of the year in the companies numbered for 1945 tanks.

The serial production of "Panther" continued from January 1943 of the year to April of the 1945 year, by the beginning of the Kursk battle the 51 and 52 tank battalions were created - for 96 of new machines. They were combined into the 10-th tank brigade and attached to the division "Great Germany", it was another tank regiment. Perhaps it was a mistake - such a concentration of tanks, including new T-5 in one division, it was 129 tanks, including 15 "Tigers" and 200 "Panthers". For example, the 503 Tiger Battalion was divided between three divisions of the 3 Corps and the T-6 and received infantry support.

As a result, already in the first battles "Panthers" suffered heavy losses, due to the fact that the number of tanks in the division increased dramatically, and the infantry, artillery, and sappers no longer became. The most significant percentage of losses was caused by mines, so 10 T-131 was damaged on July 5, of them with suspension damage (due to mine explosions) - 70; 12 July from 116 tanks - 38. But they were positively evaluated by both the German command and ours, the T-5, became the main anti-tank weapon of the 48 tank corps, in this battle having destroyed up to 50% of all Soviet tanks that the entire corps had destroyed.

In further battles, the Panthers showed themselves well, the crews were pleased with them, respected the enemy. Thus, the Adolf Hitler battalion of the Leibstandard SS tank division armed with the T-5 battalion fought in the Berdichev area in November 1943. Without maintenance for 6 days of battles, he passed 210 km, destroying 40 Red Army tanks and losing seven, they were shot down in the side and stern.

But T-5, like KV and T-34 at the beginning of the war, became hostages of the Wehrmacht defeat period in the 1943-1945 years. The Germans often did not have the opportunity to evacuate damaged or left due to breakdown tanks, which could be restored and re-commissioned.

German industry could not give them enough army - on 31 in May 1944 of the year (before the summer campaign ”) of the 15-Tank Divisions who fought on the Eastern Front, only six had battalions with T-5.


German tank T-VG Panther in the museum of weapons in Kubinka.

What could the Red Army oppose to the German “wonder tanks”?

No need to think that the Red Army simply “crushed” new Wehrmacht tanks with its mass, or besides mines there were no other methods against them. When inspecting the X-NUMX tank T-31 on the fields of the Kursk Bulge, the commission of the Red Army's Main Armored Directorate found the following causes for the destruction of the vehicles: The 5 tank was destroyed by an 1 kg bomb, three were blown up on mines and land mines, four were broken and thrown by crews, 100 tanks were knocked out artillery. On 22 tanks, 22 hits were counted: 58 hit the front of the hull — all ricocheted; shells into the 10 turret — all pierced through the armor; all the tanks broke through the 16 sides. It turned out that the 24-mm, 45-mm, 76-mm armor-piercing shells hit the turret. The upper front hull sheet held all types of armor-piercing shells. The forehead of the turret and the mask of the cannon pierced 85-mm armor-piercing and 85-mm snapping shells.

According to the "Report on the actions of Soviet artillery in the fighting on the Oryol-Kursk Bulge" and a number of other studies, the Soviet anti-tank and divisional artillery of the 45-76 mm caliber destroyed the 64-81% of the Wehrmacht's armored vehicles; with the help of mines, incendiary bottles, grenades, PTR destroyed 11-13% enemy armored vehicles (in some areas up to 24%); tank units destroyed 9-17% enemy armored vehicles (in some areas up to 21%).

The fact that the Wehrmacht lost most of their armored vehicles due to enemy artillery is confirmed by the Germans themselves. In addition, T-5 and T-6 have not actually been weapons front breakthrough, the strategic initiative of the Wehrmacht lost. Tanks had to throw in counterattacks to try to "shut up" the front, restore it.

Tanks were not the main weapon against other tanks, it was the task of artillery. The task of the tank units was the development of a breakthrough, not a counter tank battle. For example, in 1941, the Wehrmacht’s tank divisions tried to put up an anti-tank barrier against the enemy’s tank units and move on, and the Red Army’s tank corps and mechanized corps of the 1943-1945 also arrived. The defender, on the contrary, tried to impose a tank battle in order to hold down the main forces of the enemy, to prevent the breakthrough of large enemy forces to the rear. Therefore, defending, the tank units of the Red Army in 1941-1942 tried to impose a tank battle with the help of KV and T-34, as well as the Wehrmacht in 1943-1945 - tried to stop the front breakthrough with their new T-5, T-6 tanks.


76-mm divisional gun sample 1942 year (ZiS-3).

Сonclusion

“Miracle Tanks” was not from the Soviet or the German side, this is just a myth of cinema and a number of authors of patriotic or liberal persuasions. And against the KV, the T-34 of the Wehrmacht were methods of struggle, and the "Tigers" and the "Panthers" did not pull on the role of "miracle weapons", which will turn the tide of war. There were anti-aircraft guns, corps guns, aircraft, mines, it was possible to beat them into the boards of anti-tank artillery - the armies of industrialized countries had a wide range to fight "miracle tanks". In addition, their number was relatively small, and it was possible to “grind” them without any particular overvoltage. When new tanks became more, more powerful anti-tank guns were already created, methods of fighting new tanks were worked out. Tanks were just one of the tools of war, you cannot demand a radical change at the front. These were good cars, with their "childhood diseases", in the end, the thirty-four became the best tank of the Second World War, and the Panther was the best tank of the Wehrmacht. Opponents were worthy of each other, as were their weapons. But the Soviet people were stronger, their system was superior to the Nazi, their weapons were the best, so they won.



Sources of:
Isaev A. Antisuvorov. Ten myths of the Second World War. M., 2006.
Kolomiets M. The first "tigers". M., 2000.
Shmelev I.P. Armor of Germany 1934 — 1945: Illustrated reference book. M., 2003.
http://armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/WWII/PzV/txt/PzV2.php
http://militera.lib.ru/h/isaev_av6/05.html
http://tanki-tiger.narod.ru/
http://waralbum.ru/category/weapons/tanks/german_tanks/tiger/
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  1. omsbon
    omsbon 6 July 2013 08: 51 New
    25
    KV, T-34, "tigers", "panthers" the difference between these tanks in the crews that controlled them. The best hoisted the Victory Banner!
    1. подводник
      подводник 6 July 2013 09: 09 New
      13
      That's right!
      People win wars, not iron !!!
      1. Kars
        Kars 6 July 2013 09: 24 New
        25
        Quote: submariner
        People win wars, not iron !!!

        But the quality of iron affects how many people will not return home for Victory.
        1. Aleks tv
          Aleks tv 6 July 2013 12: 05 New
          12
          Quote: Kars
          But the quality of iron affects how many people will not return home for Victory.


          I agree, Kars.
          Yes, we won. Yes, our tanks snatched Victory.
          But the heavy tanks of the Wehrmacht were a serious and worthy opponent, this is a fact.
      2. Arberes
        Arberes 6 July 2013 09: 34 New
        +8
        Quote: submariner
        People win wars, not iron !!!

        People, of course. I want to add one more important argument. Fast assembly, a large number and the best price! We did it all. hi
      3. honest jew
        honest jew 6 July 2013 09: 38 New
        0
        They don’t wave their fists after the fight!
      4. misterwulf
        misterwulf 6 July 2013 11: 14 New
        +2
        Wars win UAV! (battle robots) laughing So many people think now. Especially my friends from the IDF.
        But, I somehow live in Russian Sevastopol, which, due to a misunderstanding, ended up in Uii. And we here know about the losses of the Wehrmacht here = as in Stalingrad (in numbers) they didn’t (almost) take prisoners here (there weren’t such opportunities).
        Well, and against the Mujahideen partisans in the desert and the UAV will do (if the Mujahideen doesn’t see it from his keen eye and doesn’t strike him, the kraynyak will fit -Stinger or-Needle) ...
      5. nnz226
        nnz226 7 July 2013 00: 32 New
        +3
        I agree! Here are the verses of the tanker of those years, the last lines pull the nerve:

        AFTER MARCH

        The sun armor is hot
        And dust trekking on clothes.
        Pull the jumpsuit off the shoulder -
        And in the shade, in the grass, but only before
        Check the engine and sunroof open:
        Let the car cool down.
        We will carry everything with you -
        We are people, and it is steel ...
        1944
        Sergey Orlov
    2. Sakhalininsk
      Sakhalininsk 6 July 2013 09: 27 New
      +7
      Quote: omsbon
      The best hoisted the Victory Banner!

      You are absolutely right, and the red banner over the Reichstag is the best confirmation of this.

      And the Germans should be given tanks the due they knew how to do, as well as to fight on them.
    3. bistrov.
      bistrov. 6 July 2013 12: 15 New
      +6
      German tankers were traditionally famous for their high skills. By the way, they still have it. The Bundeswehr tanks were considered, and still remain our main enemy in Europe.
      1. tomket
        tomket 14 July 2013 22: 39 New
        0
        the Germans do not have any kind of troops, everywhere you have super training and fighting brotherhood who do not know analogues in other branches of the army, panzer crews — well, just super training, Wehrmacht infantry — the most persistent people, and ss is a separate song, and hen’t chicks are just titans and not people! take the same hartman and rudel, and the pilots of Colonel Kupffer! and the boys Dynitsa !!!! Oh, they are all the same in steel coffins even as a single organism! They just shaved all these specialists to simple Soviet soldiers who did not boast but simply rushed for their homeland
        1. Reyngard
          Reyngard 24 October 2013 21: 40 New
          0
          compared in quantity?
  2. Stas57
    Stas57 6 July 2013 09: 42 New
    +4
    KV, T-34, "tigers", "panthers" the difference between these tanks in the crews that controlled them. The best hoisted the Victory Banner!

    why only crews? and military commanders? and repairmen? and factories?

    ps.
    There were no “Miracle Tanks” from either the Soviet or German sides, it was only a myth of the cinema and of a number of authors of cheers or liberals. And against the KV, T-34, the Wehrmacht had methods of struggle, and the Tigers and Panthers were not drawn into the role of a “miracle weapon” that would turn the tide of the war.
    competent remark related to all participants of the second world
  3. Lopatov
    Lopatov 6 July 2013 09: 51 New
    +3
    There were no “Miracle Tanks” from either the Soviet or German sides, it was only a myth of the cinema and of a number of authors of cheers or liberals. And against the KV, T-34, the Wehrmacht had methods of struggle, and the Tigers and Panthers were not drawn into the role of a “miracle weapon” that would turn the tide of the war.

    Beautiful words.
    1. zahmat
      zahmat 6 July 2013 13: 26 New
      +7
      We had a "miracle weapon" is the Russian spirit!
  4. The comment was deleted.
  5. Sochi
    Sochi 6 July 2013 10: 00 New
    +4
    weapons become miraculous weapons only in the war with the Papuans ... because they can’t oppose anything. The system and spirit of the soldiers wins.
  6. Avenich
    Avenich 6 July 2013 10: 11 New
    -1
    Excuse me, dear ones, I probably had a naive question again. Until now, the Panther has been referred to as self-propelled guns. What is this error in assessing the purpose of the tank, confusion in terminology, or an example of underestimating the combat properties of a machine, such as "not a full tank, but a cannon on tracks"?
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 6 July 2013 10: 16 New
      +7
      Quote: Avenich
      Until now, the Panther has been referred to as self-propelled guns.

      Maybe you heard about Yagdpenter?
    2. creak
      creak 6 July 2013 10: 25 New
      +4
      And who called? The Panther was originally designed exactly as a medium tank and 1943 vehicles of three modifications were produced from 1945 to 5976. Although the Panthers proved to be not the best on the Kursk arc, out of 196 tanks entered into battle, 127 were lost. Perhaps the Panther medium tank is sometimes confused with a fighter tanks Yagd - Panther made on the basis of the tank. But these fighter tans were released in total 392 tires and no significant rhodium played.
      1. Avenich
        Avenich 6 July 2013 12: 42 New
        0
        [quote = ranger] Perhaps sometimes the Panther medium tank is confused with the Yagd - Panther tank destroyer made on the basis of the tank.


        [quote = Shovels]
        Maybe you heard about Yagdpenter?

        Thank. A completely intelligible explanation for me. As always, the difficulties of translation and a superficial understanding of the subject are among those who wrote articles for children and youth back in the 70's.
        But then a question arose, apparently the word “Yagd” is somehow connected with a self-propelled gun, the memory of the Wehrmacht was so self-propelled as the “Yagdtiger”.
        1. dustycat
          dustycat 6 July 2013 15: 15 New
          +1
          It's simple.
          We had "St. John's Wort" Su100, Su122, SU152.
          The Germans also had hunters: YagdPanter (Hunter Panther) and YagdTiger (Hunter Tiger).
          On them, as on SU122 and SU152, the Germans pinned hopes on the anti-tank struggle.
          But simple mines, guns, faustpatrons and bottles with Molotov cocktails were much more successful and cheaper.
  7. bistrov.
    bistrov. 6 July 2013 12: 08 New
    +4
    The article, basically, correctly assesses the role of tanks in the Second World War. It is also true that both the Tiger and Panther did not fully meet the requirements for a long breakthrough tank. For this they lacked both cross-country ability and power reserve. In fact, they were "anti-tank" tanks. This once again underlines the spread of the phenomenon of tank fear among the Wehrmacht military personnel. Soviet designers created tanks with more optimal characteristics, managed to find more balanced solutions and combinations, as a result, Soviet tanks also had strong armor protection, powerful weapons, longer refueling mileage, good performance and high technology, which allowed them to be produced in large quantities , as a result, it allowed to create a decisive advantage in armored vehicles. As for the reasoning that the Germans allegedly did not have enough resources, these opinions are fundamentally wrong, almost all of Europe worked for Germany, and this is much higher than the USSR both in economic potential and in human resources. I appreciate the article positively.
    1. loft79
      loft79 6 July 2013 15: 51 New
      -1
      Quote: bistrov.
      This once again underlines the spread of the phenomenon of tank fear among the Wehrmacht troops


      Tank fear was both among the soldiers of the Wehrmacht and among the soldiers of the Red Army

      Quote: bistrov.
      Soviet designers created tanks with more optimal characteristics, managed to find more balanced solutions and combinations, as a result, Soviet tanks also had strong armor protection, powerful weapons, longer refueling mileage, good performance and high technology, which allowed them to be produced in large quantities


      I agree.

      Quote: bistrov.
      As for the reasoning that the Germans allegedly did not have enough resources, these opinions are fundamentally wrong, almost all of Europe worked for Germany, and this is much higher than the USSR both in economic potential and in human resources.


      You are not quite right about resources and industry.
      About resources, it was understandably brought from all over Europe, but this was not enough for them.
      About the industry. The Germans almost always had a shortage of new ones. tanks to replenish divisions. They even considered the production of Pz-3,4 in Czech plants. But they did not pull.
      1. bistrov.
        bistrov. 6 July 2013 16: 56 New
        0
        Quote: loft79
        Tank fear was both among the soldiers of the Wehrmacht and among the soldiers of the Red Army

        I don’t quite agree with you, maybe there was tank fear in the early years of the war among young, unfired soldiers, but already at the end of 41, German tanks were burning for a sweet soul, remember at least the feat of 28 Panfilov’s soldiers at Dubosekovo’s junction, ordinary infantrymen set fire to 28 German tanks, and on the Kursk Bulge, moreover, the bulk of the “Tigers” and “Ferdinands” were disabled by the infantry, which is no secret there, in that battle neither our tank guns nor anti-tank artillery took the frontal armor of these monsters, and so puff off the ordinary infantry "van", and they did not get scared, did not blunder, lay down under the tank with a mine and a bunch of grenades. I take off my hat in front of them.
        Quote: loft79
        The Germans almost always had a shortage of new ones. tanks to replenish divisions.

        In this I agree with you, and not only the tanks, there was not enough conventional small arms, those 98 K carbines, pistols, they were forced to withdraw from storage long Kaiser rifles from all over Europe to collect the pistols that they produced in Belgium ( Browning), and in Poland (remember Whist?), And in the same Czech Republic (Czech Zbroyevka CZ), and in Austria (Steyr). In Hungary, France, Poland, and the Czech Republic tanks, planes, and automobiles were made for the Wehrmacht. No 1411 Pz Kpfw tanks. 38 (t), which was produced by CKD-Prague, Hitler was unlikely to risk attacking the Soviet Union. In fact, this is almost half of the Wehrmacht's tank fleet! And you say there were not enough resources. Indeed, the merit of our fathers and grandfathers was that they were able to create such an arms production that they surpassed the resources of the whole of Europe not only in quantity but also in quality: for example, all German factories and satellites from 1941 to 1945 were able to manufacture 1048500 machine guns , 7845700 rifles and 935400 submachine guns (machine guns) During the same time, 1515900 machine guns, 12139399 rifles and 6173900 submachine guns were manufactured in the USSR. As regards tanks and self-propelled guns, Germany and satellites produced over 50000 units during the war years, while 109100 tanks and self-propelled guns were produced in the USSR. It is necessary to fall at the feet before the feat of the Soviet workers, designers and engineers. It was they who ensured the victory of our troops.
  8. svp67
    svp67 6 July 2013 13: 28 New
    0
    In my opinion, in the “Tiger” - “Panther” pair, one of the “cats” is superfluous ... If the Germans created a tank with “contours” and a mass of “Panther”, and using the fire power of the “Tiger”, such a tank could make it very difficult "life" to our grandfathers ...
    1. bistrov.
      bistrov. 7 July 2013 10: 22 New
      -1
      Quote: svp67
      Create a Germans tank with "contours" and a mass of "Panther", and firepower "Tiger",

      So such a tank was created by the Germans, it is Ranzerkamfvagen-6, model 2, it is also called the “royal tiger”. True, it turned out to be “somewhat” heavy -70 tons, and even a tank wherever, a gun from Ferdinand, two machine guns, frontal armor 150 mm, 489 of these tanks were made, but he didn’t help the Germans either, the Soviet soldier burned them too.
  9. pensioner
    pensioner 6 July 2013 14: 48 New
    0
    L. Gorlitsky (Chief Designer for Uralmash self-propelled guns) at the time said something like: the Germans dumped Durkee with the Tigers, Panthers and their other beasts. each such miracle deprived the Wehrmacht of 2-3 Artsturm (ours as Sturmgeshütz) or 3-4 Wasps (ours as Hetzer was called). This he said about 44-45 years. A MIRACLE never happens. And in tank building too.
    1. loft79
      loft79 6 July 2013 15: 30 New
      +1
      They dumped Durku with the Panthers. It was necessary to produce a well-tuned Pz-4. And the Hetzer and Art are good on the defensive, they will not replace the tank in the offensive. When the Beasts), the Germans advanced.
      1. bistrov.
        bistrov. 6 July 2013 17: 31 New
        +1
        Quote: loft79
        It was necessary to produce a well-tuned Pz-4

        Panzerkampfvagen-4, in principle, was a good tank, especially with a 75mm KwK-40 cannon. However, already in the period of 1942 his fighting qualities did not satisfy the Wehrmacht. The armor was weak, they were forced to strengthen it with additional screens, but this did not add patency to it, it had narrow tracks. In addition, the Maybach engine had the unpleasant feature of not starting up even at minus 5 and in the cold season, tankers were forced to organize a watch on the engine to warm up. And although the tank was produced before the end of the war, it was unlikely that it alone could withstand the new models T34-85, IS-2.
        1. svp67
          svp67 6 July 2013 17: 36 New
          +2
          Quote: bistrov.
          And although the tank was produced before the end of the war, it was unlikely that it alone could withstand the new models T34-85, IS-2.

          The T34-85 would undoubtedly have dealt with Isa, of course, more difficult, but even here they had very good chances ...
          1. bistrov.
            bistrov. 7 July 2013 11: 03 New
            0
            Quote: svp67
            With T34-85 would undoubtedly cope

            Again, so I would not say so firmly. Undoubtedly, the KwK-75 40 mm gun was a formidable weapon, but additional armor (forehead up to 80 mm), anti-cumulative screens, oversized the tank, increased its dimensions, and he already suffered from a lack of dexterity (300 horsepower engine). And this worthless tsimmeritovoe plaster? Like, protection against magnetic mines? Was it really necessary? All this created additional difficulties in production and made it more expensive. Yes, it was a rather serious opponent, but our tankers confidently beat him, otherwise they would not have ended up in Berlin, and the Germans would have been in Moscow. I hope you will not argue with this?
        2. loft79
          loft79 7 July 2013 07: 22 New
          0
          Quote: bistrov.
          Panzerkampfvagen-4, in principle, was a good tank, especially with a 75mm KwK-40 cannon


          The Pz-4 with the KwK40 L / 48 cannon confidently opposed any of our tanks (except for the ISov, and then I could easily be sideways). The design by that time was licked, deprived of childhood diseases, production was debugged. It was improved in the direction of manufacturability and simplification of production.

          Quote: bistrov.
          In addition, the Maybach engine had an unpleasant feature not to start already at minus 5


          Was Panther not Maybach?
          All winter was not sweet. Our fur-water at night constantly checked the acc. batteries, so as not to run out. Offhand, according to the memoirs of veterans every 2-3 hours (I can lie).
    2. Revolver
      Revolver 7 July 2013 03: 53 New
      0

      Quote: retired
      Germans dumped Durkee with the Tigers, Panthers and their other beasts. every such miracle took away from the Wehrmacht 2-3 Artsturm

      Well, not quite that simple. The Germans brutally lacked fuel and crews, Germany - not the USSR with unmeasured human reserves and Caspian oil. Therefore, the approach was "if we can refuel only one tank, it should be a super tank superior in strength to 3-4 ordinary ones." The suspension with a checkerboard arrangement of rollers was not used from a good life, just the rollers in 1 row did not hold the weight of the armor. But, as it turned out, funds were also found against supertanks.
      The main thing is that the T-34, with all their shortcomings, reached Berlin, and the German "cats", with all their advantages, did not reach Moscow. However, a few pieces came in the form of museum exhibits.


  10. pensioner
    pensioner 6 July 2013 15: 36 New
    0
    Quote: bistrov.
    As for the reasoning that the Germans allegedly did not have enough resources, these opinions are fundamentally wrong, almost all of Europe worked for Germany, and this is much higher than the USSR both in economic potential and in human resources.

    ! Many forget it.
  11. MG42
    MG42 6 July 2013 17: 05 New
    +2
    <royal> tiger >>>

    in France

    1. MG42
      MG42 6 July 2013 17: 29 New
      0
      I wonder which Soviet tank could "cope" with it in the last days of the Second World War? IC-3?
      1. Cat
        Cat 6 July 2013 17: 42 New
        +3
        Quote: MG42
        I wonder which Soviet tank could "cope" with it in the last days of the Second World War? IC-3?

        The IS-2 could well afford it - more than once the eye-catching memories of the Panzerwaffe veterans came across that, due to the poor quality of the armor, the Tiger-2 held a blow no worse than the ordinary Tiger. And with the possibility of choice, many tankers preferred to fight on the Tiger-1.
        1. MG42
          MG42 6 July 2013 17: 53 New
          +2
          Yes, obviously <not finalized> >>>
          In combat conditions, the Tiger II was extremely unreliable and capricious machine. The running gear caused great complaints - caterpillars often flew over small turning radii, which were very difficult to pull again because of their enormous weight. The engines were heavily overloaded and overheated, requiring numerous stops. In the summer I had to stop every 20 minutes. Climbing a slightly more slight slope, especially a long one, was a long and risky business, as at any time, the engine could burn out or the gearbox could break. Fuel consumption per 100 km: 601l on the road and 836l on the lane became a big problem, considering that expensive synthetic fuel was used and serious supply difficulties.

          http://vn-parabellum.narod.ru/ger/pz6b_batex_art.htm
      2. Yegorchik
        Yegorchik 6 July 2013 17: 43 New
        +3
        Alexander Petrovich Oskin on August 11, 1944 destroyed 3 royal tigers on t 34.
      3. svp67
        svp67 6 July 2013 18: 20 New
        +1
        Quote: MG42
        I wonder which Soviet tank could "cope" with it in the last days of the Second World War? IC-3?

        Everything largely depended on WHERE and HOW. If you didn’t forget, in the FIRST clash this “super” bit was T34-85
        1. MG42
          MG42 6 July 2013 18: 32 New
          0
          Sergey, so what kind of beast is on your avatar?
  12. soldier's grandson
    soldier's grandson 6 July 2013 17: 29 New
    -14
    I watched a program about German tankers. They had aces who could drive a blank disc into the barrel of the t34
    1. papas-57
      papas-57 6 July 2013 21: 22 New
      +7
      Ours also made a program about how our tankers could drive a blank into the point to the commander of a German tank with one shot without damaging the armor (through the viewing gap)
    2. Garrin
      Garrin 6 July 2013 22: 11 New
      +2
      Quote: soldier's grandson
      I watched a program about German tankers. They had aces who could drive a blank disc into the barrel of the t34

      If you are a grandson of a soldier, then try not to watch such programs. Stay away, otherwise the grandfather will be offended.
    3. svp67
      svp67 6 July 2013 22: 13 New
      0
      Quote: soldier's grandson
      I watched a program about German tankers. They had aces who could drive a blank disc into the barrel of the t34

      And our grandfathers won them! Be proud of it.
  13. sergey158-29
    sergey158-29 6 July 2013 20: 30 New
    +1
    To "our" happiness, their "menagerie" was very laborious and expensive!
  14. Kovrovsky
    Kovrovsky 6 July 2013 22: 50 New
    0
    Quote: ranger
    And who called? The Panther was originally designed exactly as a medium tank and 1943 vehicles of three modifications were produced from 1945 to 5976. Although the Panthers proved to be not the best on the Kursk arc, out of 196 tanks entered into battle, 127 were lost. Perhaps the Panther medium tank is sometimes confused with a fighter tanks Yagd - Panther made on the basis of the tank. But these fighter tans were released in total 392 tires and no significant rhodium played.

    According to many experts, the Yagdpenter is recognized as the best anti-tank self-propelled guns of the Second World War.
  15. Hariva
    Hariva 7 July 2013 00: 08 New
    0
    Quote: soldier's grandson
    I watched a program about German tankers. They had aces who could drive a blank disc into the barrel of the t34

    Ohhhh! It must have been a Discovery Channel
  16. Dr. Ido
    Dr. Ido 7 July 2013 06: 09 New
    0
    Isaev correctly wrote in Antisuvorov that the battles are won not by prodigies, but by mass vehicles, the main workhorses of the war.
  17. slaventi
    slaventi 7 July 2013 16: 39 New
    +4
    Self-propelled guns also contributed to the victory on the Kursk Bulge. SA-152 self-propelled guns "St. John's Wort" by Major Sankovsky, commander of one of the batteries of the 13 army self-propelled guns. His crew destroyed enemy tanks in the first battle during the Battle of Kursk 10.
  18. hukk
    hukk 7 July 2013 17: 53 New
    0
    The article is interesting. One remark, after describing the successes of German tankers, I would like a link. If the data is taken from German memoirs, this is one thing. If from serious sources based on archival data is another. Everyone has the opportunity to get acquainted with German memoirs, and this literature claims historical authenticity relatively, especially in terms of listing the losses of the Red Army. Simply put, adding up all the downed Soviet planes and tanks by German memoirists, you can get a figure from the world of fiction. And about the “Panther” you can see, in my opinion, Manstein’s recollections, he complained that, unlike Soviet tanks, it was difficult to repair, it was necessary to remove the tower in order to get to the internal filling.
  19. Captain45
    Captain45 7 July 2013 19: 07 New
    0
    Today at InoSMI I read the research of some expert from the newspaper “Di Welt” about the Battle of Kursk. As one movie character said: “I laughed so much.” I just came across an excerpt from one of the tank’s memoirs in one of the comments, it’s a pity only the source was not indicated. So this tanker compares our T-34-85 and the “Panther” on which he had to fight a bit as a trophy. In general, the T-34 gives preference for speed, maneuverability, chassis, engine, and repair options, while the Panther praises the sight, gun, and comfort in the tower.
  20. AKS-U
    AKS-U 8 July 2013 04: 42 New
    +2
    On the Lviv-Sandomierz bridgehead, my father, an artilleryman, participated in the battle with the Tigers. Their ZiS - 3 batteries did not survive. 76mm. the gun in the forehead of the Tiger did not take. It was naive to hope that the tankers set up the side. Yes, and the Germans knew how to fight. Their observers would quickly figure out the position. For several hours, they watched in the sight a cluster of diverse vehicles and infantry, which came out of the encirclement. In the attacking group, the Tigers did not even turn off their motors. And when the first cars moved to our positions, the battery made only two volleys. The sense is zero. Only sparks from hitting the target. Interestingly, the Germans did not shoot at the position (they took care of the shells if they were or wanted to roll up the battery with geese). But from the third volley there were miracles. In one "Tiger" when it hits the tower, it detonated the ammunition. The tower vomited. The second shell hit the stern. Vomited part of the stern and engine. At the third one, when hit on board, it tore off the caterpillar and vomited several rollers. The attacking group turned around and began to drape. When the batteries looked back, our self-propelled guns 122mm came to their aid. It was their volley that stopped the attack of the vaunted Tigers. Taught for victorious marches in Europe, in 44 the Germans learned to run both from our soldier and from our equipment. And they were afraid of our large calibers, like fire.
    Conclusion: Glory to our weapons and our soldier.
  21. svp67
    svp67 1 August 2013 20: 42 New
    0
    Interesting fact and photo
    Downed German tank Pz.Kpfw. VI Ausf. B "Royal Tiger" №321 from the 502-th tank battalion with a gun from the tank "Panther".

    On the morning of 28.03.1945, during a German counterattack near the village of Küstrin-Kitz (Küstrin-Kietz), the tank hit a mine, lost its course, but continued firing from a cannon. As a result, he was finished off with a trophy "faustpatron"; only one person remained alive from the crew.

    Unusual armament of the tank is associated with difficulties in supplying German troops in the last months of the war. In exchange for the damaged original gun, the gun from the Panther tank was installed during the repair.