Military Review

Ukrainian choice

39
Ukrainian choiceAfter the May 11 referendum on self-determination in the Donetsk and Lugansk regions, the situation inside Ukraine and around it as a whole has not changed strategically. There is still a delicate balance in the balance of power in the east of Ukraine. The official authorities of Kiev are not able to regain their control over a number of settlements in the Donetsk and Lugansk regions, despite the use of force, including heavy weapons. Pro-Russian activists in Lugansk and Donetsk are trying to organize themselves, but so far they can control only part of the territory of two regions.


At the same time, the conflict between the West and Russia continues to develop on its own with respect to the assessment of events in Ukraine. Western countries are increasing sanctions against individuals and individual companies from Russia and are talking about more serious economic sanctions. This causes a clear discontent of Moscow, which is already beginning to feel their economic consequences. In particular, this concerns the flight of capital from Russia and the actual closure of foreign financial markets for Russian companies, which threatens to exacerbate the current economic downturn.

Russia is clearly not going to give in, but it is not going to aggravate. Although some Russian politicians critical of the West periodically throw in relevant ideas. For example, there are questions about the presentation of US and European debt obligations, which form the basis of Russia's gold and foreign exchange reserves, the switch to selling Russian oil and gas for rubles, the refusal of the dollar to make payments, the transition to a so-called currency-credit swap in trade relations with important partners and others. The last sentence is very interesting. It assumes that countries trade among themselves using national currencies, and then the country that has more imports than exports compensates for the difference. De facto, this is currency clearing. In the period before the Second World War, it was actively used in relations between Germany and the countries of Eastern Europe dependent on it.

But the question now is not the economic confrontation between Russia and the West. For the time being, this is only an implicit possibility that, in principle, may not turn into an economic war. The question is whether there can be any talk of a global confrontation, which implies Russia's transition to economic autarky, as well as opposition to the West along all lines. For example, providing support to Iran on its nuclear program, supplying weapons Type C-300 to this country and Syria. That is, whether the beginning of a new cold war is likely.

Naturally, a kind of litmus test, which will allow you to understand how far Moscow is ready to go will be the question of South-Eastern Ukraine. If you follow the logic of global confrontation, then you can assume that the idea of ​​Novorossia can be theoretically implemented.

It is actively promoted by pro-Russian forces in Donetsk and Lugansk. Naturally, this idea is supported by all-round support among radical-minded politicians in Russia, which can be conventionally called “imperials”. The minimum program of New Russia includes two areas that have already held a referendum. The maximum program already covers up to eight oblasts of Ukraine along the left bank of the Dnieper, including the entire Black Sea coast.

Actually, everyone today is waiting for what Moscow will do. Is it possible to imagine that the point of view of the radical-minded circles of Russian society will prevail, or will pragmatism prevail? The Russian leadership is in a difficult situation. Every step that provides tactical successes - the Crimea, now a referendum in Donetsk and Lugansk, causes all new sanctions from the West. While they are not very sensitive, but inherently unpleasant. In addition, they put official Moscow in a position where radical politicians are activated inside the country, their anti-Western rhetoric is becoming tougher. In this situation, it would be easier to find some solution, to agree, because delaying the situation can be perceived as weakness, as a loss of face.

It can be assumed that Russia would like to agree with the West. It is with him, and not with the new leadership of Ukraine. Its terms are already indicated. Moscow wants the federalization of Ukraine, the legitimization of the transition under its control of the Crimea and the lifting of all sanctions. The West will naturally not agree with all the conditions. The annexation of the Crimea is likely to never be recognized, the sanctions are negotiable, but they are unlikely to be completely canceled. The only time around which you can build an interim compromise today is the federalization of Ukraine.

The parties have already made the necessary statements for this. Russian President Vladimir Putin said that the 25 presidential election in Ukraine in May is a step in the right direction. In parallel, Ukrainian politicians pointed to the possibility of decentralization. Somewhere in the middle between federalization and decentralization, in fact, you can find a compromise that allows, on the one hand, to save the face of the Russian authorities. On the other hand, it will stop the process of disintegration of Ukraine. At the same time, Crimea will simply be taken out of the agreement.

One can argue for a long time that the root cause of all the events in the Crimea and in the east of Ukraine is an internal protest or the help of “green men”. Now, actually, this is not so important. It is important to stop.

Official Moscow clearly does not want to implement the project of a large Novorossia. Too high costs - both financial and purely military. For example, the invasion of troops in the area of ​​left-bank Ukraine, which is theoretically possible according to the mandate of the Federation Council of March 1, will not meet such support everywhere in Crimea and Donbas. In addition, only the Crimea is already very expensive for Russia, and how much the whole East of Ukraine will cost is difficult to imagine. It is clear that pro-Russian activists in Ukraine are guided by Russian salaries and pensions and rely on the Crimean precedent.

The West also does not want too radical development of the situation. This will create big problems, first of all, for Europe. Most likely, the West would like to stop the expansion of Moscow and then focus on the development of Ukraine as an alternative to the Russian version of development.

Therefore, despite the harsh rhetoric, the achievement of agreements today is quite likely. The new president of Ukraine, most likely it will be Petro Poroshenko, can make the most unpopular decisions. However, he will not be associated with all the actions of the Ukrainian authorities in the past three months.

For Kazakhstan, this is the best possible scenario. The confrontation between the West and Russia too much narrows our space for maneuver. In addition, it is impossible not to take into account that the growth of radical sentiment in Russian society, a certain euphoria from the annexation of the Crimea, cannot but affect our public opinion. Stormy discussions also take place here, they are just not very noticeable and, probably, this is just what is good.
Author:
Originator:
http://iwep.kz/kommentariy-eksperta/2014-05-14/ukrainskiy-vybor
39 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. Sergg
    Sergg 15 May 2014 07: 39
    +1
    In addition, only Crimea is already very expensive for Russia, and how much the entire East of Ukraine will cost is difficult to imagine.


    It turns out the whole thing in the money. This is in Russian, right? That is, the Russians do not abandon their own, but when it comes to money, you can take a long pause and try to save your face when there is a punitive operation to destroy people. First they count money, then corpses ... whether there is enough of them to spend money to ensure order - vile mathematics.
    1. istomin36
      istomin36 15 May 2014 08: 03
      +5
      Deputy Igor Strelkova gave the Ukrainian army 24 hours to unblock the cities of the DPR, after which he promised to start a military operation - http://vk.com/video_ext.php?oid=79889569&id=168636258&hash=f60663f9854f5b
      b6 & hd = 1
    2. dirty trick
      dirty trick 15 May 2014 08: 37
      +4
      Quote: Sergg
      It turns out the whole thing in the money. This is in Russian, right? That is, the Russians do not abandon their own, but when it comes to money, you can take a long pause and try to save your face

      their ???
      I agree with the author of the article that a lot of money will go to the Crimea - the economy has been ruined there for more than 20 years. BUT - it is justified!!! why? - this is a region of Russia that needs to be put in order. because Crimea in its referendum answered YES to the question "Are you for the reunification of Crimea with Russia as a subject of the Russian Federation?" and officially (you all saw the broadcast of signing documents) became part of Russia !!!
      what decision accepted in Donetsk and Lugansk? in fact rather slurred - in support of the act of independence. so, what is next? everyone admits that Nazism is bad, but the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs proves this to everyone and wherever possible. what next and on the basis of what to do to the president and the government of Russia? what the residents of the southeast want in the end - we must proceed from this!
    3. Max_Bauder
      Max_Bauder 15 May 2014 09: 42
      +2
      I ran through the text fluently and concluded that the author, Sultan Akimbekov, does not know how to express his thoughts clearly. Wrote what is already known, this, this, and that happens ... and what?

      maybe the conclusion is? - The new president of Ukraine, most likely he will be Petro Poroshenko, can make the most unpopular decisions. However, he will not be associated with all actions of the Ukrainian authorities in the past three months.

      For Kazakhstan, this is the best possible scenario.


      Is it the best scenario for Kazakhstan with h.r. What is this Poroshenko good for?

      What has he done or can do for the people of Kazakhstan? maybe for oligarchs can do something? for businessmen? because someone on the side is doing business for the people 0 kopeks!
      I understand our power protecting our capital, but gentlemen, is it not time to invest in our own economy and not to transfer the country's wealth to offshore, enriching the West? then you wouldn’t have to worry about your money in geopolitical conflicts.

      I’m only happy about the collapse of the dollar.
      The entire slave lending system goes this way. America prints paper, then gives it to a large percentage of our banks, our banks give a large percentage of the population. The result is bank growth, but what about? a tidbit of the business of doing nothing, at first rising prices for everything, 800% of the prime cost, then universal lending to the population, akin to drug addiction, because people want to live beautifully, especially since advertising only annoys you to spend, spend, and spend it again.

      In the end, we have a ruined economy, for there is nothing where you can earn besides banks and state institutions, a lot of suicides related to unpaid debt, and imprisonment threatening for it, a bunch of unemployed, zombie population of consumers who do not know history, religion or anything such work honestly (plow the land and sow or cattle). This is what is happening in our country.

      So everything that happens in geopolitics only makes me happy, European integration, sending US tries, if the confrontation between Russia and the USA will lead to close cooperation between the two allied countries of the Russian Federation and the Republic of Kazakhstan, then I’m glad that our state will have to invest in its production with a kick in the ass rather than importing western demo.
    4. Ross
      Ross 15 May 2014 10: 04
      +5
      I read who the author is and everything fell into place. Fear for the northern territories. The author would like, as is customary in Ukraine, to sit on two chairs.
      The fact that tension from opposition is a fact. But the interests of Russia and its allies do not coincide in everything. Southeast of Ukraine is not populated by Kazakhs all the same ...
    5. maxbrov74
      maxbrov74 15 May 2014 12: 33
      +4
      It turns out the whole thing in the money. This is in Russian, right?


      The author probably meant that it was in Kazakh, although I think that many people in Kazakhstan would not agree with me. But, as it is not sad, in some ways he is right. Citizens who are ready to exchange anything at 30 silver coins unfortunately are not few here too.
    6. Gluxar_
      Gluxar_ 15 May 2014 18: 53
      +5
      Quote: Sergg
      It turns out the whole thing in the money. This is in Russian, right? That is, the Russians do not abandon their own, but when it comes to money, you can take a long pause and try to save your face when there is a punitive operation to destroy people. First they count money, then corpses ... whether there is enough of them to spend money to ensure order - vile mathematics.

      This article has nothing to do with Russians. This is a typical position of the "rational" West, which has not fallen into Russophobia.
      What we can agree with is the fact that the whole of New Russia should not join Russia under current external conditions, at least right away.
      And the author has noticed an important point, not in all areas of New Russia there is absolute support for the Russian path. And this is the main problem and the difference from the Crimea. If people do not want to return home, then they are not waiting for them at home. If the Russians of Ukraine continue to sit on their priests, then let them not cry then when foreign objects begin to be thrust into their priests.
      The resistance of the DPR is a brave and desperate people, but let's admit that they are not an absolute majority. Next week will put all the points on "e". If the DPR is able to create its own institutions of power and power units and take control of the border with the Russian Federation into their own hands, then this will be a signal that they are ready to return home. If not, then there are no questions.

      As for other regions, Ukraine is still. Then only the people should have their say, not politicians or "sympathizers". Neither in Odessa, nor in Kherson and Nikolaev, nor in Kharkov there were really mass public demonstrations. Who dares to go against the will of the people? They do not want changes, letting them get their future that they deserve.
      What does Russia need to do? Work informally in all possible directions and wait. Time is on the side of Russia and against the fascist authorities in Kiev. Economic issues will soon come to the fore, and gas will approach winter. It is impossible to force events by any aggressive actions. Do not forget that in the first place we are Russians here and now, and we have our own development tasks, it would be time to solve them already, or how many centuries we have been waiting.
  2. The comment was deleted.
  3. Riperbahn
    Riperbahn 15 May 2014 07: 40
    +3
    Oh well - about nothing. Enumeration of what is already clear to anyone following the news :(
  4. Predator
    Predator 15 May 2014 07: 44
    +5
    Man! We already heard that! Better advise Nazar, but we don’t need alarmist articles! We coped and now we can!
  5. tokin1959
    tokin1959 15 May 2014 07: 48
    +9
    For Kazakhstan, this is the best possible scenario. The confrontation between the West and Russia narrows our space for maneuver too much. In addition, one cannot but take into account that the growth of radical sentiments in Russian society, a certain euphoria from the annexation of Crimea, cannot but affect our public opinion. There are also heated discussions here, they just are not too noticeable and, probably, this is just good


    Is Kazakhstan afraid? was it scary?
    then there is something to be afraid of

    And the South East of Ukraine is no longer Putin's decree, they took power without Putin's help and are not going to give it to the junta or the future "president" Piglet.

    article - minus.
    1. mpa945
      mpa945 15 May 2014 08: 34
      +4
      You plus, the article is a fat minus.
  6. A1L9E4K9S
    A1L9E4K9S 15 May 2014 07: 51
    +11
    But Kazakhstan is afraid that it will be its turn for Ukraine. Russia doesn’t need to be afraid, we need Kazakhstan as an independent, strong and independent state that sprinkles us from the southeast, Russia needs Kazakhstan as a reliable friend who does not abandon you in a difficult situation.
    1. silberwolf88
      silberwolf88 15 May 2014 08: 32
      +4
      It seems ... the findings of Kazakhstan in the article ... a kind of information provocation.
      An attempt to create / strengthen doubts about the reliability of our partnerships.
  7. demotivator
    demotivator 15 May 2014 07: 51
    +1
    Official Moscow clearly does not want to implement the project of a large New Russia.

    Well, why doesn’t it want to? And why should this project be implemented by Moscow? The more you know the details about the anti-fascist movement in southeastern Ukraine, the more you want to take off your hat to the people of these regions: their movements are really popular outrage, and this outrage is not inspired either by the oligarchs or the West, like the Maidan, nor by the parties of Ukraine, nor unfortunately even the FSB. This is a real outrage! And the absence of the “hand of Moscow” by the political helplessness of these movements is proved.
    If popular outrage was directed and directed from Moscow, then it would not be so blatantly fragmented and organizationally completely stupid. What was the cost of ignoring Putin’s advice to postpone the referendum? And what was the appeal to Moscow the morning after the referendum asking for accession? This, of course, proves that the local anti-fascists had no contact with Moscow, and the leaders of the DPR, in their naivety, did not even realize that they would be refused in the Kremlin.
    The people who led the anti-fascist movement in the Donetsk and Lugansk regions, which later turned into a movement for the independence of these regions, are heroes without any stretch. They took power, declared independence. And then what? What are the steps? On May 14, a message appeared that a certain “People’s Council of the LPR” had dissolved the Council of the Lugansk Region. The deputies of the Lugansk Regional Council happily fled - well, who wants to risk their future in the company of brave revolutionaries, moreover, not understanding what they are doing? Moreover, the National Guard of Ukraine is cleansing the region from "terrorists." A question for the revolutionaries - why did you do this? Why did they disperse the deputies elected by the people of the region, and even dispersed on behalf of the body, about which the people of the Lugansk region did not hear anything and who did not charge anything? Did self-defense units disperse the Supreme Council of Crimea in Crimea? The Council of the Luhansk region could turn self-defense units from "terrorists" into official police. Why did you deprive your best people of legal protection?
    The Council of the Luhansk region could quickly adopt the LNR Constitution and hold elections to its parliament. And now they have condemned themselves to the adoption of the Constitution in a referendum. So, the concrete shawls of the new formations, so far not very clear.
    1. JoylyRoger
      JoylyRoger 15 May 2014 08: 09
      +1
      First, one leader makes a request for joining the Russian Federation, then another (I have a bad memory in my last name), says that joining the Russian Federation is not a priority. And that 20-30% of the population will support him. Somehow everything is incomprehensible and muddy
  8. Grbear
    Grbear 15 May 2014 07: 54
    +4
    For Kazakhstan, this is the best possible scenario. The confrontation between the West and Russia is too strong narrows our space for maneuver. In addition, one cannot but take into account that the growth of radical sentiments in Russian society, a certain euphoria from the annexation of Crimea, cannot but affect our public opinion. There are also heated discussions here, they just are not too noticeable and, probably, this is just good.

    The whole article boils down to the classic "partner" position:
    "... our space" - getting under the sanctions does not cause optimism, and "our public opinion" - Russian speakers in Kazakhstan should not want to go home like Crimea.
  9. B.T.V.
    B.T.V. 15 May 2014 07: 55
    +5
    They recognize Crimea, not tomorrow, creaking with senile relics, but recognize it is a matter of time. Article- 0.
    1. tokin1959
      tokin1959 15 May 2014 07: 58
      +3
      and New Russia will eventually be recognized.
      if the republic holds on and shows strength.
    2. Lyokha79
      Lyokha79 15 May 2014 08: 09
      +4
      Crimea does not need recognition. Crimea became part of Russia, and did not become independent.
      Article minus. The author, gently, hints that the Russian government needs to make concessions to the West, and then, you see, the money has already fled from Russia, and maybe even worse when the West still sanctioned two dozen people from among the Russian leadership.
      1. tokin1959
        tokin1959 15 May 2014 08: 21
        -2
        in Crimea, the conversation is about recognition as part of Russia.
        Most countries consider Crimea to be Ukrainian.
        therefore, they impose sanctions on Crimean enterprises, Crimean officials, a flight ban, a ban on visiting Crimea.
  10. KOH
    KOH 15 May 2014 07: 57
    +3
    Pro-Russian militias ... some imperials ... Another provocation!
  11. mig31
    mig31 15 May 2014 07: 58
    +3
    This is no longer strength, but powerlessness, and from where the junta can have popular forces, a bvnda gang ...
  12. Zheka Krasnoyarsk
    Zheka Krasnoyarsk 15 May 2014 08: 00
    +2
    The issue with Ukraine must be resolved once and for all, and the quicker the better. They just won’t lag behind us.
  13. dimarm74
    dimarm74 15 May 2014 08: 00
    +3
    But ... now the main thing is that these areas should unite in New Russia and create capable government bodies. And for this it is necessary to leave money in the regions. And naturally take control of the entire territory of both regions. Here, Russia simply needs to help at the initial stage - with money, weapons, food.
  14. Al_lexx
    Al_lexx 15 May 2014 08: 00
    +3
    The West also does not want too radical development of the situation. This will create big problems, first of all, for Europe. Most likely, the West would like to stop the expansion of Moscow and then focus on the development of Ukraine as an alternative to the Russian version of development.

    Bullshit! The author gives out the wish for reality, and even simply writes a carbon copy of the Western media.
    And of course, he voiced the bzdesh of Kazakh statesmen. I would like to reassure them. As long as we have friendly relations with Kazakhstan and we will respect the Russians and their culture with respect, live calmly in warped lands. We will even forget the fact that it was Russia that founded your country and endowed you with sovereignty.

    Then, what does it mean that Crimea is not recognized? Sakhalin and the Kuril Islands, too, have not yet been recognized, so what? What has changed from this?
  15. dimarm74
    dimarm74 15 May 2014 08: 03
    +2
    What does not have so much time. Measures to establish power in Novorossia should be carried out as quickly as possible, while popular support exists.
    1. Apollo
      Apollo 15 May 2014 08: 09
      +3
      Good morning everybody hi

      Ukrainian deputy Dmitry Dobkin, Mikhail Dobkin’s brother, is high, let's figure it out together under what ?! laughing

      In a word inadequate laughing
    2. Al_lexx
      Al_lexx 16 May 2014 08: 45
      0
      Quote: dimarm74
      What does not have so much time. Measures to establish power in Novorossia should be carried out as quickly as possible, while popular support exists.

      Plusanul, but I want to ask you _ What do you mean "BYE"?
  16. mamont5
    mamont5 15 May 2014 08: 18
    +2
    "The new president of Ukraine, most likely Petro Poroshenko, can make the most unpopular decisions."

    Unpopular for whom? If for the great-Ukrainians, then he will quickly fly off his throne, and if for the Southeast, some have already said their word, and the rest will follow them, all the more, on the beaten track it will already be easier.
  17. silberwolf88
    silberwolf88 15 May 2014 08: 28
    +4
    quote: Most likely, the West would like to stop the expansion of Moscow and then focus on the development of Ukraine as an alternative to the Russian development option.

    I don’t even know how to relate to such conclusions ... Where and when ... I'm just really interested ... The West developed the country of the former socialist camp as a role model and a new path ... new perspectives ??????
  18. a8h8
    a8h8 15 May 2014 08: 47
    +2
    The great American forecaster, E. Casey, predicted great natural disasters for America. It would have started faster.
  19. levinson 1st
    levinson 1st 15 May 2014 08: 53
    +2
    I read and think what nonsense in this article. I got to the name of the author and all the perplexity disappeared. Another nomad grantee teaches us how to live.
    Russia does not need outsiders' advice. Not only Novorossia, but all of Ukraine will return to the Russian world, with the exception of the cockerel corner in Galicia. Someone should inherit the debts of an independent. Here we will give them to Lviv.
  20. valentina-makanalina
    valentina-makanalina 15 May 2014 08: 53
    +3
    Dear Sultan Akimbekov, for your article I introduce you too sanctions - put a minus.
    You’re used to seeing everything measured with money and you won’t take a single step towards the neighbor’s burning house, especially if he is your relative until they pay.
    Your article is good because it expresses, as I think, not only your opinion, but also the opinion of some part of the leadership of Kazakhstan. Have you ever thought about the fact that you don’t have everything in chocolate, that you can have your own maidan? And you think. Where to run: south or north? Who will I contact for help?
  21. bistrov.
    bistrov. 15 May 2014 09: 02
    +1
    He wrote that in Kazakhstan, the Russians who inhabit the northern regions can be activated. Russia is a kind soul. I distributed my lands with the Russian people. Now, when the genocide of Russians began on these lands, I have to take these lands with blood. I want to advise this Kazakh Akimbekov : You would better establish democratic laws and observe them, otherwise you will go to live in yurts and graze sheep and camels again.
    1. blizart
      blizart 15 May 2014 09: 42
      -2
      You dear, be careful with the terms, I'm talking about genocide, there is no genocide against Russians in Kazakhstan. There is a natural process of acquiring national identity by Kazakhs, which is accompanied, of course, by the ousting of non-assimilated Russians from all spheres of activity. On the other hand, why should Kazakhs be more patriots of the Russian people than the Russians themselves? Have you ever remembered about 5 million Russians in Kazakhstan? No, how did you meet them in your villages, where they tried to move to their historical homeland? At least latent discontent and labeling, or even a "red rooster" in the years of hard times! What didn’t you say? Yes, there are no examples of tueva, my wife's sister left Chimkent for Chapaevsk (Saratov region), from the "churks", as she said, she lived in a 4-room apartment in Chimkent, now she lives in a house made of shell boxes, there are only gypsies around, Azerbots and others "lumps" only of the Russian spill, what do (?) do drugs of course. She howled like a wolf, but there is nothing to return. And as for the recent events, you were interested in what happened to the Russians in Ukraine? Say, everything that is happening there is not like snow on your head? Don't la-la. What I mean is to trend, not to roll bags. Our sheep were in the porridge of the Red Army, and the camels carried guns, with the Leningraders and other evacuees, the Kazakhs shared the latter! And most importantly, I'm not Kazakh
      1. bistrov.
        bistrov. 15 May 2014 12: 15
        0
        Are you not Kazakh? Yes, you are a hundred times worse than a Kazakh, I respect the Kazakh people, they are mostly hardworking, normal people, and you are a "tumbleweed" without a family without a tribe. Whom do you protect? Nationalists, from whom your sister ran away? Did you think that a palace would be prepared for her in the Saratov region? As for Ukraine, we, Russians, have been fighting the nationalist authorities all these 23 years, and have achieved a lot, including regional languages, and are creating our own parties. Was the annexation of Crimea and an uprising in the East of Ukraine possible without our propaganda work? And look at the percentage of Russians in Kazakhstan? 5 million for 17 million of the total population of Kazakhstan! And do you allow yourself to run away? Yes, you can put the whole of Kazakhstan on your ears! In Ukraine there are 7-8 million Russians (according to various sources) for 45 million We are not going to run away from here, this is our land and we led, are and will continue to fight for these lands that we have conquered for us, our fathers and grandfathers. Yes, our fathers fought together, and now Kazakhstan is looking from the direction of China, trying to quietly instruct Russia. You called the word "assimilation", but this is the loss of your national identity. What are you? Do you want to turn from Russians into Kazakhs? As for the camels, I used this comparison that it was the Russians who brought Kazakhstan out of a backward, essentially feudal country into what it was under the USSR and is now. and forcibly "assimilate" them, charge a huge fee for the Baikonur cosmodrome, to which you have essentially no relation, it was built for the resources of the USSR. Shame on you!
        1. Max_Bauder
          Max_Bauder 15 May 2014 13: 04
          -2
          I respect Russian, but I won’t allow it

          Quote: bistrov.
          Yes, you can put all of Kazakhstan on the ears!


          and this is

          Quote: bistrov.
          the nationalist authorities of Kazakhstan staged genocide against Russians and forcibly "assimilate" them

          -
          outright lie, if anyone ever committed genocide against Russians then they were Chechens in 1995-96m, our people won’t even do that in sick imagination
        2. blizart
          blizart 15 May 2014 22: 05
          0
          You know the subject very roughly and are too emotional for serious conversations. Look at the meaning of the word genocide for a start.
          1. Max_Bauder
            Max_Bauder 16 May 2014 11: 46
            0
            Do you seem to know the meaning of this word? but don’t know where to apply it? in any case, this does not give you the right to slander in the direction of the whole people.
  22. A1L9E4K9S
    A1L9E4K9S 15 May 2014 12: 26
    -1
    Kazakhs friends offend with words in vain, they are very hardworking, kind, hospitable people, I had to live with them as a teenager for about five years, I will not say a bad word about them and I do not advise you, there are of course geeks, but do we have few of them, as they say in the family is not without a freak.
    1. Max_Bauder
      Max_Bauder 15 May 2014 13: 07
      -1
      Quote: A1L9E4K9S

      A1L9E4K9S


      Today, 12: 26

      ↓ New


      Kazakhs friends offend with words in vain, they are very hardworking, kind, hospitable people, I had to live with them as a teenager for about five years, I will not say a bad word about them and I do not advise you, there are of course geeks, but do we have few of them, as they say in the family is not without a freak.


      Thank you friend.