Military Review

How Stalin created Israel. By the 66 anniversary of the independence of Israel

130
14 On May 1948, the state of Israel was proclaimed. The often repeated 137 psalm from the book of the Psalter, compiled during the first Jewish captivity in Babylon (6th century BC), contains a well-known oath:
"If I forget you, O Jerusalem,

Let my right hand wither,
Let my tongue cling to my palate ... "


How Stalin created Israel. By the 66 anniversary of the independence of Israel


Recently, I have repeatedly heard: "Stalin created Israel." There was a desire to understand this in detail. I present in chronological order the milestones of the formation of the state of Israel. I omit the period of the Egyptian pharaohs, Roman legionaries and crusaders, and begin the chronological description from the end of the 19 century.

Year 1882. The beginning of the first Aliya (waves of Jewish emigration to Eretz Israel). In the period up to 1903, about 35 of thousands of Jews fleeing persecution in Eastern Europe moved to the province of the Ottoman Empire of Palestine. Baron Edmond de Rothschild provides tremendous financial and organizational assistance. The cities of Zichron Yaacov were founded during this period. Rishon Lezion, Petah Tikva, Rehovot and Rosh Pina.

Settlers


Year 1897. The first world Zionist congress in the Swiss city of Basel. Its purpose is the creation of a national home for the Jews in Palestine, then ruled by the Ottoman Empire. At this conference, Theodor Herzl is elected president of the World Zionist Organization. (It should be noted that in modern Israel there is practically no city where one of the central streets would not be named after Herz. Something reminds me of it ...) Herzl holds numerous talks with leaders of European powers, including the German Emperor Wilhelm II and the Turkish Sultan Abdul-Hamid II in order to enlist their support in creating a state for the Jews. The Russian emperor told Herzel that, apart from distinguished Jews, he was not interested in the rest.


Opening of the congress


Year 1902. The World Zionist Organization establishes the Anglo-Palestinian Bank, which later became the National Bank of Israel (Leumi Bank). The largest bank in Israel, the Bank of Hapoalim, was established in 1921 by the Israeli trade union association and the World Zionist Organization.

Anglo-Palestinian Bank in Hebron. 1913 year


Year 1902-th. In Jerusalem, the hospital is founded Shaare Zedek. (The first Jewish hospital in Palestine was opened by German doctor Chaumon Frenkel 1843 in Jerusalem. In 1854, the hospital Meir Rothschild opened in Jerusalem. Although Bikur Holim Hospital was founded in 1867, though it existed with 1826 he had only three wards in the year of 1843. In the 1912 year in Jerusalem, the Hadassah Hospital was founded by a single-shift women's Zionist organization from the USA. The Assuta Hospital was founded in 1934, the Rambam hospital in 1938. .)


Former Shaare Zedek Hospital building in Jerusalem


Year 1904. The beginning of the second Aliya. In the period up to 1914, about 40 of thousands of Jews moved to Palestine. The second wave of emigration was caused by a series of Jewish pogroms in the territory of the Russian Empire, the most famous of which was the Kishinev pogrom of 1903. The second Aliya organized the kibbutz movement. (Kibbutz is an agricultural commune with common property, equality in labor, consumption by other attributes of communist ideology.)


Winery in Rishon Lezione 1906 year.


Year 1906-th. Lithuanian painter and sculptor Boris Schatz founded the Bezalel Jerusalem Academy of Arts.


Bezalel Academy of Arts


Year 1909-th. The creation in Palestine of a militarized Jewish organization, Ha-Shomer, whose goal was self-defense and the protection of settlements from the raids of Bedouins and robbers who hijacked herds from Jewish peasants.


Zipora Zayd

Year 1912-th. In Haifa, the Ezra Jewish Foundation of Germany founded the Technion Technical College (from the 1924 of the year, the Institute of Technology). The language of instruction is German, subsequently - Hebrew. In 1923, Albert Einstein visited him and planted a tree there.


Albert Einstein during a visit to the Technion


In the same 1912 year Naum Tsemakh, together with Menachem Gnesin, gathers in Bialystok in Poland a troupe that became the basis for the professional Habim theater created in 1920 in Palestine. The first theatrical productions in Hebrew in Eretz Israel refer to the period of the first Aliya. At Sukkot 1889 in Jerusalem, the school "Lemel" hosted the play "Zrubavel, O Shivat Zion" ("Zrubavel, or Return to Zion") based on the play by M. Lilienblum. The play was published in Yiddish in Odessa in 1887, translated and staged by D. Elin.


Founder of the first Hebrew Theater Nahum Tsemach


Year 1915-th. On the initiative of Jabotinsky and Trumpeldor (more here и here) as part of the British Army, a "Mule Drivers Unit" is being created, consisting of 500 Jewish volunteers, most of whom are immigrants from Russia. The detachment takes part in the landing of British troops on the Gallipoli peninsula on the coast of Cape Helles, losing 14 dead and 60 wounded. The squad disbanded in the 1916 year.


Hero of the Russian-Japanese War, Joseph Trumpeldor


Year 1917-th. The Balfour Declaration is the official letter of the British Foreign Secretary Arthur Balfour to Lord Walter Rothschild. After the defeat in the First World War, the Ottoman Empire lost its power over Palestine (the territory that came under the rule of the British crown). Content of the declaration:
Ministry of Foreign Affairs, 2 Nov. 1917 of the year
Dear Lord Rothschild,
On behalf of His Majesty’s Government, I have the honor to convey to you the following declaration, which expresses sympathy for the Zionist aspirations of the Jews, submitted to the Cabinet of Ministers and approved by it:
“His Majesty’s Government is approving the creation of a national home for the Jewish people in Palestine and will make every effort to help achieve this goal; it is clearly understood that no action should be taken that would violate the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country. "
I would be very grateful to you if you brought this Declaration to the attention of the Zionist Federation.
Sincerely,
Arthur James Balfour.

In 1918, France, Italy, and the United States supported the declaration.


Arthur James Balfour and the Declaration


Year 1917-th. On the initiative of Rotenberg, Zhabotinsky and Trumpeldor, the Jewish Legion is being created within the British army. It includes the 38 Battalion, which was based on the disbanded "Mule Drivers Unit", Jews of British origin and a large number of Jews of Russian origin. The 1918 Battalion, consisting primarily of Jewish volunteers from the United States and Canada, is created in 39. The 40 Battalion consists of Ottomans. The Jewish Legion takes part in the hostilities in Palestine against the Ottoman Empire, the losses are of the order of 100 people with a total number of about 5000 people.


Soldiers of the Jewish Legion near the Western Wall in Jerusalem in 1917


Year 1918-th. The creation of a university in Palestine was discussed at the First Zionist Congress in Basel, but the laying of the foundation stone of Jerusalem University took place in 1918. The university officially opened in 1925. It is noteworthy that Albert Einstein bequeathed to the Hebrew University all his letters and manuscripts (more than 55 thousands of names), as well as the rights to commercial use of his image and name. Every year it brings the university a profit of millions of dollars.


Opening Ceremony, 1925 Year


Year 1918-th. The newspaper HaAretts has been published. (The first Hebrew newspaper was published in Jerusalem in 1863, the year Halabanon. The Jerusalem Post was published in 1938, and the most popular today is Yediot Ahoronot (“Last news") In 1939.)


Khalebanon Newspaper, 1878 Year


Year 1919-th. Third Aliya. Because of the violation by the British of the League of Nations mandate and the introduction of restrictions on the entry of Jews, 1923 of thousands of Jews, mainly from Eastern Europe, are moving to Palestine before 40.


Harvesting in 1923 year


Year 1920-th. The creation in Palestine of the Jewish military underground organization Hagan in response to the destruction by the Arabs of the northern settlement of Tel Hai, which killed 8 people, including the hero of the war in Port Arthur Trumpeldor. In the same year, a wave of pogroms broke out in Palestine, when armed Arabs robbed, raped and killed Jews with non-intervention and sometimes complicity with the police. After Arabs killed 133 and wounded 339 Jews within one week, the highest elected body of Jewish self-government appointed a special Defense Council, headed by Pinchas Rutenberg. In 1941, the Hagan fighters under the British command carried out a series of sabotage raids into Vichy Syria. In one of the operations in Syria, Moshe Dayan was injured and lost an eye. By May 1948, there were about 35 thousands in the ranks of Hagana.


One of the founders of the Hagana Pinhas Rutenberg


Year 1921-th. Pinchas Rutenberg (revolutionary and associate of the priest Gapon, one of the creators of the Hagan Jewish self-defense units) founded the Jaffa Electric Company, then the Palestinian Electric Company, and from 1961 of the Israeli Electric Company.


Hydroelectric Power Station Naharaim


Year 1922-th. Stalin is elected to the Politburo and the Organizing Bureau of the Central Committee of the RCP (b), as well as the General Secretary of the Central Committee of the RCP (b).



Year 1922-th. Representatives of the 52-countries of the League of Nations (the predecessor of the UN), officially endorse the British Mandate in Palestine. Palestine then meant the current territories of Israel, the Palestinian Authority, Jordan and parts of Saudi Arabia. The mandate containing 28 paragraphs implied "establishing political, administrative and economic conditions in the country for the safe education of a Jewish national home". For example:

Article 2. The mandate is responsible for creating such political, administrative and economic conditions that will ensure the establishment of a Jewish national home in Palestine, as set out in the preamble, and the development of self-government institutions to also protect the civil and religious rights of Palestinians regardless of race or religion.

Article 4. The relevant Jewish Agency will be recognized as a public body to consult and interact with the Palestinian Authority on economic, social and other issues that may affect the establishment of a Jewish national home and the interests of the Jewish population in Palestine, and being controlled by the Administration, promoting and participating in development country.

The Zionist Organization, if its organization and establishment would be appropriate in the opinion of the Mandate Holder, will be recognized by such an agency. She will take steps to consult with the Government of His British Majesty to ensure the cooperation of all Jews who wish to promote the establishment of a Jewish national home.

Article 6. The Palestinian Authority, while ensuring non-neglect of the rights and conditions of other groups of the population, will promote Jewish immigration under suitable conditions, and will encourage, in cooperation with the Jewish Agency, as stipulated in Article 4, the dense settlement of land by Jews, including state lands and vacant lands that are not necessary for public needs.

Article 7. The Palestinian Authority will be responsible for drafting national legislation, which will include provisions that facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews, who will choose Palestine as their place of residence.

Details here. It is noteworthy that under the "Palestinian Authority" the League of Nations meant the Jewish authorities and did not at all mention the idea of ​​creating an Arab state on a mandated territory also including Jordan.


Territories covered by the British Mandate


Year 1924-th. Under the Presidium of the Council of Nationalities of the USSR CEC, a Committee on the Land Management of Jewish Workers (KomZET) is set up “in order to attract the Jewish population of Soviet Russia to productive work”. Among other things, KomZET aims to create an alternative to Zionism. In 1928, the Presidium of the Central Executive Committee of the USSR adopts a decree "On assigning KomZET for the needs of full settlement of free lands by working Jews in the Amur zone of the Far Eastern Territory." Two years later, the CEC of the RSFSR adopts a decree “On the formation of the Biro-Bijan national region as part of the Far Eastern region”, and in 1934, it receives the status of an autonomous Jewish national region.


Pioneers.


Year 1924-th. Fourth Aliya. For two years, about 63-x thousand people moved to Palestine. Emigrants are mainly from Poland, since by that time the USSR already blocks free travel to Jews. At that time, in the Jezreel Valley, the city of Afula was founded on the lands purchased by the American development company Eretz Israel.


City of Raanana 1927 year


Year 1927-th. A Palestinian pound is being circulated. In 1948, it was renamed the Israeli lira, although the old name Palestine Pound was present in the bills in Latin. This name was present in the Israeli currency until 1980, when Israel switched to shekels, and from 1985, to the present day, a new shekel is in circulation. From 2003, the new shekel is one of the 17-and international freely convertible currencies.


Sample banknotes of the time



Israeli lira in 1960's.


Year 1929-th. Fifth Aliya. In the period before 1939, in connection with the flourishing of the Nazi ideology, about 250 of thousands of Jews moved from Europe to Palestine, thousands of 174 of whom were from 1933 to 1936. As a result, tensions between the Arab and Jewish populations of Palestine are increasing. According to Arab pressure in 1939, the British authorities issue the so-called “White Book”, according to which, in violation of the terms of the League of Nations mandate and the Balfour declaration, 10 years after the publication of the book in Palestine, a single binary state of Jews and Arabs should be created. Jewish immigration to the country for the next 5 years is limited to 75 by thousands of people, after which it was supposed to stop altogether. Arab immigration is required to increase immigration quotas. On 95% of the territory of Mandatory Palestine, it is prohibited to sell land to Jews. From that moment on, the immigration of Jews to Palestine almost became illegal.


Packaging of citrus fruits in Herzilia in the year 1933


Year 1933-th. The largest to this day transport cooperative Eged is being created.


British checkpoint at the entrance to Tel Aviv from Jerusalem, 1948 year.


Year 1944-th. A Jewish brigade is being created within the British Army. The British government initially opposed the idea of ​​creating Jewish armed formations, fearing that this would give more weight to the political demands of the Jewish population of Palestine. Even the invasion of Rommel’s army in Egypt did not alter their fears. Nevertheless, the first recruitment of volunteers to the British army was held in Palestine at the end of 1939, and already in 1940, Jewish soldiers in British units took part in battles in Greece. A total of about 27000 volunteers from Mandatory Palestine serve in the British Army. In 1944, Britain changes its mind and creates a Jewish brigade, yet having assigned 300 English soldiers to it, just in case. The total number of the Jewish brigade is about 5000 people. The losses of the Jewish brigade were 30 killed and 70 injured, 21 fighter won military awards. The brigade was disbanded on 1 on May 1946 of the year. Veterans of the brigade Maklef and Laskov subsequently became chiefs of the General Staff of the Israel Defense Forces.


Jewish brigade soldiers in Italy in 1945 year


Year 1947-th. 2 April. British government refuses from the mandate to Palestine, arguing that it is not able to find an acceptable solution for Arabs and Jews and asks the UN to find a solution to the problem. (It was stated that the United States.)

Year 1947-th. 10 November, organized by Sherut Avir ("Air Service"). On the 29 of November 1947, the "weapon" had 16 aircraft purchased by private individuals:
One Dragon Rapide (the only twin-engine aircraft), 3 Taylorcraft-BL, one RWD-15, two RWD-13, three RWD-8, two Tiger Moth, Auster, amphibious RC-3 Seabee and Beneš-Mráz Be-550.
In addition, the Zlín 12 aircraft was at the disposal of the Ötzel organization


Amphibian RC-3 Seabee


Year 1947. 29 November. The United Nations adopts a partition plan for Palestine (UNGA Resolution No. 181). This plan provides for the termination of the British Mandate in Palestine by August 1 1948, and recommends the creation on its territory of two states: Jewish and Arab. Under the Jewish and Arab states, 23% of the mandated territory transferred to the UK by the League of Nations is allocated (for 77%, the United Kingdom organized the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, 80% of whose citizens are so-called Palestinians). Under the Jewish state, the UNSCOP commission allocates 56% of this territory, under the Arab 43%, one percent is placed under international control. Subsequently, the section is adjusted taking into account Jewish and Arab settlements, and 61% is allocated for the Jewish state, the border is transferred so that 54 Arab settlements enter the territory allocated for the Arab state. Thus, for the future, the Jewish state is allocated only 14% of the territories allocated by the League of Nations for the same purpose 30 years ago.

For the adoption of the plan, 33 countries vote: Australia, Belarus, Belgium, Bolivia, Brazil, Venezuela, Haiti, Guatemala, Denmark, Dominican Republic, Iceland, Canada, Costa Rica, Liberia, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Nicaragua, New Zealand, Norway, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Poland, USSR, USA, Ukrainian SSR, Uruguay, Philippines, France, Czechoslovakia, Sweden, Ecuador, South Africa. Of the 33s who voted “For”, 5 is under the influence of the USSR, including the USSR itself: the Byelorussian SSR, Poland, the USSR, the Ukrainian SSR, and Czechoslovakia.
13 countries vote against the plan: Afghanistan, Egypt, Greece, India, Iraq, Iran, Yemen, Cuba, Lebanon, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Turkey.
10 countries abstain: Argentina, United Kingdom, Honduras, Republic of China, Colombia, Mexico, El Salvador, Chile, Ethiopia and Yugoslavia. (There were no Stalin satellites among the abstentions.) Thailand did not vote.

Palestinian Jewish authorities happily accept the UN plan to divide Palestine, Arab leaders, including the League of Arab States and the Supreme Arab Council of Palestine, categorically reject the plan.

Year 1948-th. On February 24, a decision is made to create an Armored Service, which is armed with improvised armored vehicles. The first and only armored battalion was created in June 1948. It includes just purchased in France 10 tanks Hotchkiss N-39, a Sherman tank bought from the British in Israel and two Cromwell tanks stolen from the British. By the end of the year, 30 decommissioned Sherman are purchased in Italy to replace the unsuccessful Hotchkiss, however, their technical condition allows only 2 tanks to enter the battle. Of the total number of Israeli tanks, only 4 have guns.


Tank Hotchkiss H-39 at the Latrun Museum


Year 1948-th. March 17 issued an order to create the "Maritime Service" - the future of the Israeli Navy. Beitar’s naval school was opened in Italy in 1934, in which future Israeli sailors were trained, in 1935 a marine department was opened at the Jewish Agency, in 1937 a shipping company began operating in Palestine, and in 1938 in Akko, the School of Naval Officers, still operating, has been opened. Since 1941, in the ranks of the British Royal fleet 1100 Jewish volunteers from Palestine, including 12 officers, are serving. In January 1943, the PalYam marine division ("Marine Company") was created in Palm. From 1945 to 1948, they managed to deliver about 70 thousand Jews to Palestine, bypassing the British authorities. In 1946, the Jewish Agency and the Federation of Trade Unions created the shipping company Tsim.

At the time of the proclamation of the independence of Israel, the fleet includes 5 large ships:


Corvette A-16 “Eilat” (former USCG Northland American icebreaker with a tonnage of 2 thousand tons)



K-18 (former Canadian corvette HMCS Beauharnois tonnage 1350 tons, arrived in Palestine 27.06.1946 with 1297 th immigrants on board)



K-20 "Hagan" (former Canadian corvette HMCS Norsyd with a displacement of 1350 tons)



K-24 "Maoz" (former German cruise liner "Sitra" with a displacement of 1700 tons, up to 1946 of the year in the US Coast Guard under the name of USGG Cythera)



K-26 "Leg" (the former American patrol ship ASPC Yucatan displacement 450 tons)


Landing craft:


P-25 and P-33 (former German amphibious boats with a displacement of 309 tons, purchased in Italy)



P-51 "Ramat Rachel" and P-53 "Nitsanim" (amphibious assault boats with a displacement of 387 tons, donated by the Jewish community of San Francisco)



P-39 "Gush Etzion" (former British tank-landing craft LCT (2) with a displacement of 300-700 tons)


Auxiliary vessels:


W-45 "Khatag Haafor" (former American tugboat acquired in Italy, with a displacement of 600 tons)



W-29 "Drome Africa" ​​(a former whaling vessel with a displacement of 200 tons, donated by the Jewish community of South Africa)



"Hana senesh" (former trading schooner with a displacement of 260 tons, arrived in Palestine 25.12.1945 "with a load" of 252 "illegal immigrants"


Coast Guard Ships:

M-17 "Haporcim" (former British boat MLFAIREMILE B with a displacement of 65 tons, purchased in Italy)



M-19 "Palmach" (former British boat left by the British fleet to the municipality of Haifa during the withdrawal of troops from Palestine)



M-21 Dror, M-23 Galit and M-35 Tirtse (former coast guard boats of the British Mandate with a tonnage of 78 tons, M-21 and M-23 were abandoned by the British, and M-35 was bought from Cyprus )


The personnel of the fleet consisted of the fighters of PalJam, civilian sailors, Jewish volunteers from the US Navy and the British Royal Navy.

Year 1948-th. 14 May The day before the end of the British Mandate for Palestine, David Ben-Gurion proclaims the creation of an independent Jewish state in the territory allocated according to the UN plan.


Palestine partition plan on the eve of the war of independence, 1947-th year.


Year 1948-th. 15 May The League of Arab States declares war on Israel, and Egypt, Yemen, Lebanon, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Syria, and Trans-Jordan attack Israel. Trans-Jordan annexes the West Bank, and Egypt - the Gaza Strip (the territory allocated under the Arab state).

Year 1948-th. On May 20, a week after the independence of the state was declared, the first of ten modified Czechoslovak Messerschmitts was delivered to Israel - Avia S-199 - priced at $ 180000 per plane. For comparison, the Americans sold fighters for $ 15000, and bombers for $ 30000 per plane. The Palestinian Air Service bought in different countries medium-sized C-46 Commando transport aircraft for $ 5000, four-engine C-69 Constellation transport aircraft for $ 15000 per unit, B-17 heavy bombers for $ 20000. All in all, Czechoslovak aircraft accounted for about 10-15% of the Israeli Air Force combat strength in 1948. By the end of 1948, out of the 25 and all of the supplied S-199, twelve were lost for various reasons, seven were at different stages of repair and only six were fully operational.


Avia S-199 in a museum in Israel


Year 1949-th. In July, a cease-fire agreement is signed with Syria. The war of independence is over.


Ceasefire line 1949 year


Myths about how Stalin created Israel:

The myth of 1: If it were not for Stalin, then in 1947, the partition plan would not have been approved and an independent state of Israel would not have been created.
If we assume that Stalin would be against the plan of partitioning Palestine (I wonder what alternative he would suggest? To leave Palestine under the eternal mandate of his sworn enemy of Great Britain, which itself had already refused the mandate?), Then even with the votes of the socialist camp, the number of countries voting for "more left (28 vs. 18). Of the 33s who voted “For”, 5 was under the influence of the USSR, including the USSR itself: the Byelorussian SSR, Poland, the USSR, the Ukrainian SSR, and Czechoslovakia. Yugoslavia led an independent policy; there were no Soviet troops on its territory. Gromyko’s speech at the UN was very touching, but no more. Do not forget that after the end of the Second World War, the UK was not able to keep its colonies and protectorates. Thus, India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Myanmar, Malaysia, Malta, Cyprus, Kuwait, Qatar, Oman, Bahrain and many others gained independence. Palestine was no exception, and Britain itself brought the keys to this territory (where the national liberation struggle was in full swing), of course, with all she could. Whether the UN would vote for partition or not, the state of Israel actually existed by that time. It created its own financial system, including currency, health and education systems (schools and universities), transport, infrastructure, power generation, and agriculture. Local governments were organized, in fact, there were military units and enterprises for the production weapons, existed its own cultural life, the press, theaters. To all of the above, Stalin had no relation. Moreover, many things were not created thanks to, but in spite of Stalin.

Myth 2. Apart from the USSR, no one else in the world wanted the emergence of a Jewish national center.
The USSR also did not want to create such a center in Palestine. As an alternative, he unsuccessfully tried to create such a center in the Far East. After the creation of the Jewish Autonomous Region, Jews made up about 16% of its inhabitants (only 17 thousand of the 3 million Jews living in the USSR at that time), and today it is less than one percent. Stalin did not allow Soviet Jews to leave for historical After the creation of Israel, he began his anti-Jewish campaign (“Assassins in White Coats”, “Rodless Cosmopolitans,” etc.).

Myth 3. Stalin saved Israel by allowing the delivery of captured German weapons from Czechoslovakia.
Deliveries of arms from Czechoslovakia were indeed, but they were not decisive. So, the Navy did not receive any assistance at all, there were no deliveries of heavy equipment (tanks, armored personnel carriers, etc.). Deliveries were limited to 25-th reworked "Messerschmitts" of poor quality at astronomical prices and small arms. Anticipating indignation, I agree that at that time any trunk was very valuable, but one should not exaggerate the value of these supplies either. In Czechoslovakia, about 25 thousands of rifles were purchased, more than 5 thousands of light machine guns, 200 heavy machine guns, more than 54 million cartridges. For comparison: only in March of the 1948 year on one underground factory Palestine has already been in production of 12 000 submachine guns Stan, 500 machine guns Dror, 140 000 grenades, 120 three-inch mortars and 5 million cartridges. The same Czechoslovakia supplied weapons to the Arabs. For example, during the operation "Shoded", the Hagany fighters intercepted the ship Argyro with eight thousand rifles and eight million rounds of Czechoslovakia, intended for Syria. Artillery, for example, during the war of independence mainly consisted of French cannons purchased in Switzerland. Moreover, after the war, the so-called Slansky process took place in Czechoslovakia. During a demonstration trial of a group of prominent figures of the Communist Party of Czechoslovakia, among whom was a veteran of the Spanish Civil War, General Secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Czechoslovakia Rudolf Slansky, and also 13 other high-ranking party and state leaders (11 of whom were Jews), were accused of mortal sins, including the "Trotsky-Zionist-Titovsky conspiracy." They were reminded of the supply of weapons to the Zionists, although Slansky was the only one who opposed these supplies. As a result, 11 people were executed, and 3s were sentenced to life imprisonment.

Myth 4. The Jewish front-line soldiers, as a rule, the Communists, were sent to Palestine as a business trip - essentially the same way as "volunteers" from the USSR to Spain went to 15 years before.
Stalin did not intend to let anyone out of the country "where a man breathes so freely," although General Dragunsky came up with the idea of ​​forming a Jewish front-line division for sending to Palestine. There were no Soviet volunteers either in the army or in aviationnor on the fleet of Israel. Volunteers from other countries (primarily from the USA, South Africa and Great Britain) were, but not from the USSR.

Conclusion: Stalin did not create Israel.
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  1. zaazua
    zaazua 15 May 2014 08: 54
    +8
    Bravo professor! I wouldn’t have the patience to put it all together!
    1. bazilio
      bazilio 15 May 2014 12: 56
      +1
      Quote: zaazua
      Bravo professor! I wouldn’t have the patience to put it all together

      I agree. In general, the material is well presented, accessible. It is clear that the review is superficial, since if you delve into the details, the volume would be very solid.
      On this topic.
      Below disputes are already flaring up - whether Stalin played a role in creating the state of Israel or not ...
      According to the Professor, Stalin’s participation in the creation of Israel was reduced to a vote at the UN General Assembly.
      If so, then according to the UN Charter, all countries have equal votes (unlike the UN Security Council and its 5 permanent members) Mathematically, the votes of the USSR and affiliated states do not strongly affect the voting results. These are the arguments of the Professor.
      It would be interesting to hear the arguments of the opponents, reasonable arguments.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Generalissimus
      Generalissimus 16 May 2014 00: 12
      13
      Golda Meir said, not very fond of the Soviet Union and Stalin: "And if it were not for weapons, not military support for the Soviet Union, Israel could not have survived the first war."

      This is to the question of weapons and Czechoslovakia, as well as to the question of the competence / honesty of the author. I somehow believe Meir more than the "professor".

      I will not argue with the delirium of the author - God is his judge.
      I can only say one thing: it was the position of the USSR and Stalin at the UN General Assembly that overturned the rejection of the United States and Great Britain in creating the state of Israel.
      It was Gromyko’s speeches, strong position and iron argument that gave birth to this state. After these speeches, Truman began to take not only verbal, but also practical steps on this issue. But in the US government, key figures at that time were categorically against the creation of Israel. Marshall, as he generally told Truman an ultimatum.
      Great Britain? After the war, this former empire surrendered its mandate over Palestine. She was categorically and strongly opposed to the creation of Israel. France? Who is it? In 1948 year?

      The participation of the Soviet Union only in the form of speeches at the UN General Assembly?
      It’s ridiculous. Gromyko's speeches are just the culmination of the active work of hundreds of people, the result of WORK.
      In addition, without a decision by the USSR, the USA, Great Britain, China and France, there could be no question of any Israel within the UN walls - therefore, 90% of the article in the form of a historical excursion of the Jewish struggle for their country can be thrown into the basket right away.
      The interest of Stalin and the USSR in the creation of Israel was their own and in many ways differed from the declared meanings at the Assembly. Which does not cancel the final result.

      However, it is impossible to argue in the comments with the article. Need to write a response.

      However, it’s even more stupid to write an article - the question has been studied thoroughly. And there are many among the Jews who studied.
      And such interpretations seem to be something painful for the author.
      1. Mikhail3
        Mikhail3 16 May 2014 10: 04
        +2
        You are right, but any argument is meaningless. To write about the fact that none of the developed countries wanted to lose either capital, or qualified personnel, or part of the aristocracy (whatever they call it), to argue about direct military assistance, and in fact not help, but simply about a military operation Of the Soviet Army, about the organization of this whole state (I imagine the petty urk of Ben-Gurion, who announced that he was henceforth a statesman and founder! If it weren’t for our residency, he would just run away, depriving Israel of its sun-like participation).
        Since Israel immediately after its founding betrayed Stalin and the USSR, it is simply unrealistic to argue. All this plague from the article will be endlessly supported by "arguments" of the same series. What is the Professor's alternative? Recognize your militant religious state also treacherous? A person cannot even go for it purely technically - how can he then fight for such a state? They are already crushing understanding with all their might - religious-racial segregation leads to an unsolvable dead end. And then there's betrayal! We won't prove anything to each other.
      2. Al_lexx
        Al_lexx 16 May 2014 10: 07
        0
        Quote: Generalissimus
        However, it’s even more stupid to write an article - the question has been studied thoroughly. And there are many among the Jews who studied.
        And such interpretations seem to be something painful for the author.

        +1

        Nevertheless, the author of the article has a well-deserved plus for the historical selection.
      3. Professor
        16 May 2014 12: 27
        +1
        Quote: Generalissimus
        In addition, without a decision by the USSR, the USA, Great Britain, China and France, there could be no question of any Israel within the UN walls - therefore, 90% of the article in the form of a historical excursion of the Jewish struggle for their country can be thrown into the basket right away.

        Are you too lazy to read the article? Have you looked at the pictures and enough? By the time of the vote, the state of Israel was a fait accompli and the vote was only formal. What is the separation plan ... Look at the map of 1947 and 1949.
        There would have been no voting at the UN, Britain would in any case collect manat and Ben-Gurion would proclaim the state and there would be countries that recognized it without the UN.

        PS
        Special thanks for the "delirium", a very reasoned refutation of the facts given by me. good
        1. Kassandra
          Kassandra 16 May 2014 17: 51
          0
          no tantrums!

          so they would say right away what abortions and Stalin do not like.
          one might think that one can only by voting instead of exporting schmeissers, messers, batters and other things, to decide everything at once ...
          1. Professor
            16 May 2014 17: 56
            -1
            Here the batters have gone, submarines and other equipment "supplied by Stalin" will soon surface. wassat
            1. Kassandra
              Kassandra 18 May 2014 02: 40
              0
              go to the museum.
    4. atalef
      atalef 17 May 2014 09: 22
      0
      Oleg, a wonderful article. Respect, how much material shoveled. good
  2. appolon44
    appolon44 15 May 2014 09: 05
    +4
    The Creation of the State of Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D0%BE%D0%B7%D0%B4%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5_%D
    0%93%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%83%D0%B4%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%B0_%D0%98%D0%B7%D1
    %80%D0%B0%D0%B8%D0%BB%D1%8C
    Conclusion: Stalin did not create Israel.

    Stalin's Middle East policy was built in such a way as to expel Britain from a strategically important region and, if possible, take its place. This is what determined the support of the struggle of the Palestinian Jews against the British Mandate for their national independence.
  3. Svetlana
    Svetlana 15 May 2014 09: 16
    20
    To diminish the merits of Stalin, a lot of intelligence is not needed. Everything has already been invented before you, professor. Starting with the Khrushchev incarnations in life (perhaps, and most likely) of the Jewish conspiracy against this great personality.
    1. Professor
      15 May 2014 09: 52
      -6
      Quote: Svetlana
      To belittle the merits of Stalin, a lot of intelligence is not needed. Everything has already been invented before you, professor.

      I set out only the facts and in the end not much of my thoughts. You can point out the inaccuracy in the facts presented, I will not be offended.

      Quote: Svetlana
      Jewish conspiracy against this great personality.

      "killers in white coats" do not allow you to sleep peacefully?
      1. appolon44
        appolon44 15 May 2014 10: 17
        +2
        The material is good, the article is also positive, just if it weren’t
        Conclusion: Stalin did not create Israel.
        then there wouldn’t be so much negativity smile
        1. singaporian
          singaporian April 18 2019 23: 39
          0
          That is, you need to conceal the truth so as not to anger those who spread their fantasies? Or maybe they are walking in the forest?
      2. smile
        smile 15 May 2014 11: 03
        21
        Professor
        Hello.
        In principle, I always have a good dream, if I don’t hang in VO :))) But I was really a little distorted by a hint of persecution of Jews in the USSR on a national basis. It is strange to say that, given, to put it mildly, a larger percentage of Jews in the country's leadership than the percentage of Jews as a whole among the population. Well, it turns out that the Jews organized targeted persecution of the Jews? :))) Maybe we should talk about the fact that certain segments of the population with certain moods fell under the distribution (now we will not talk about validity or unfoundedness) regardless of their nationality?
        1. 225chay
          225chay 15 May 2014 12: 13
          -14 qualifying.
          Quote: smile
          In principle, I always have a good dream, if I do not hang in VO :)))

          That Vova, slept after duty, and realized that he had a good rest, and now is ready to bark at his friends?
          And we are internationalists
          1. smile
            smile 15 May 2014 13: 47
            +8
            225chay
            Well, probably, I know better who my friend is and who is not, and I also slept well, or not really, even after mythical duty ... where, interesting? .... :)))
            Your lash does not carry any information at all ... can you specify what you blurt out to? :)))
        2. Professor
          16 May 2014 12: 37
          0
          Quote: smile
          But I really was somewhat distorted by a hint of persecution of Jews in the USSR on a national basis.

          This is a proven medical fact. The policy of state anti-Semitism in the USSR is well known and studied.

          Quote: smile
          Well, it turns out that the Jews organized targeted persecution of the Jews?

          At the dawn of the formation of the USSR, there were more Jews in the government, if only because the Jews never had illiteracy, neither in the 18th century, nor in the 20th. Look how many Jews have been in the governing bodies of the USSR since the 60s? Zero point zero. List of members of the Politburo lead?
          Quote: smile


          Maybe we should talk about the fact that certain segments of the population with certain moods fell under the distribution (now we will not talk about validity or unfoundedness), regardless of their nationality?

          No, it shouldn't. The order not to give Heroes of the Soviet Union was not "to all nationalities."
          1. Kassandra
            Kassandra 16 May 2014 17: 54
            +1
            everything is studied
            and the names of the revolutionaries
            bring, only with real names including Leonid Ilyich himself (and Khrushchev)
      3. Orik
        Orik 15 May 2014 11: 51
        15
        Quote: Professor
        "killers in white coats" do not allow you to sleep peacefully?

        They do not let Lenin-blank, Trotsky-Bronstein, Uritsky, Sverdlov-Eiman, Volodarsky-Goldstein and other large and small destroy the Russian people sleep peacefully.
        1. Professor
          16 May 2014 12: 38
          0
          Quote: Orik
          They do not let Lenin-blank, Trotsky-Bronstein, Uritsky, Sverdlov-Eiman, Volodarsky-Goldstein and other large and small destroy the Russian people sleep peacefully.

          The Russian people are not a herd of sheep that a bunch of Jews "bent over".
          1. Kassandra
            Kassandra 16 May 2014 17: 55
            +1
            that is, on that board of honor they buried everyone?
      4. elenanikolaevna
        elenanikolaevna 15 May 2014 13: 06
        +2
        I set out only the facts and in the end not much of my thoughts. You can point out the inaccuracy in the facts presented, I will not be offended. Yes, even very small ones (but probably significant for you). But here is what happened in 1940-1945 not a word. I ask for the facts. They are very interesting. And then we know about all countries, but not a word about Israel anywhere.
        1. Professor
          16 May 2014 12: 41
          0
          Quote: elenanikolaevna
          But that's what happened in 1940-1945 not a word. I ask for facts. They are very interesting. And then we know about all countries, but not a word about Israel anywhere.

          They tried not to fight against the British, the Palestinian Jews fought in their ranks. In Palestine itself, fortified areas were built as there was a chance that Romel would invade through Egypt. Streely developed. Nothing special IMHO.
      5. Kassandra
        Kassandra 15 May 2014 19: 55
        0
        there are such, and many ... why not?
      6. viktor.o
        viktor.o 16 May 2014 07: 06
        0
        Dear Professor, it does not seem to you that not all states in the world (with the exception of Ukraine) have passed the long period of their formation. From scratch it’s not possible to create the great, so pay tribute to the Jewish people who have been building their state for centuries and patiently. DO NOT NEED TO REVIEW HISTORY. I.V. Stalin was a pragmatist and not when he would not have helped if he had not seen the prospects of the created state both political and economic. I.V. Stalin even fought in Spain for gold and foreign exchange reserves, what did he have to give planes and weapons to? This is not for you the next half. Figures squandering the country at their discretion.
        1. Professor
          16 May 2014 12: 42
          -1
          Quote: viktor.o
          .DO NOT NEED TO REVERT THE HISTORY

          I set out only the facts. You can double-check.
      7. Al_lexx
        Al_lexx 16 May 2014 10: 15
        +2
        Quote: Professor

        I set out only the facts and in the end not much of my thoughts. You can point out the inaccuracy in the facts presented, I will not be offended.

        Professor, do not need extra reflexes. The article is good. Those who know how to think and understand everything. Your patriotism is understandable. Your rejection of Stalin’s personality is also understandable.
        And they will rinse you for some kind of propaganda. So, you have in vain laid out your own thoughts to the public. Your main mistake is operating with numbers. At that time (the second half of the 40's), when Israel was recognized, the international weight of the USSR and the opinion of Stalin were decisive and undeniable. So, here you are completely wrong when citing the mean figures of the vote. Do not forget that half of Europe was under us and our tanks were in Germany.
        About the persecution of Jews in the USSR, this is a complete epicail. Turn on your head. After the 1917, the leadership of our country has always been and there is a very large percentage of Jews, as well as in other administrative structures. So something there is painful for you inside, in relation to the Russians. This is not good. Not tactful and not hygienic. Least.

        I personally do not mind any adequate opinion. I just think that you are being thrown with feces here very responsibly and, in general, deservedly. winked

        Nevertheless, thanks again for the article, as a historical digression. Plusanul.
        1. Professor
          16 May 2014 12: 44
          0
          Quote: Al_lexx
          About the persecution of Jews in the USSR, this is a complete epicail. Turn on your head.

          hammer in Google "State anti-Semitism".
          1. Al_lexx
            Al_lexx 16 May 2014 12: 53
            +5
            Quote: Professor
            Quote: Al_lexx
            About the persecution of Jews in the USSR, this is a complete epicail. Turn on your head.

            hammer in Google "State anti-Semitism".

            I don’t recognize google, nor do cocacola.

            And yet, you know the old saying:
            "Hu @ is written on the fence. I looked in, and there was firewood." wink

            Whatever you say, but for all my tolerance of Jews, there are problems of Zionism, Talmudism, Hasidism. It was the Jews who first put forward the idea of ​​their own exclusivity and nurtured European Nazis.
            Those. if you specifically cut the truth-womb, then the bill will not be in your favor.
            Nevertheless, I say again that the problem is not with the Jews, as such, but with Zionism and Talmudism. If we isolate the five to ten Jewish families that rule the IMF and Washington and the same number of Saudi families, the world will forget about world wars for hundreds of years.
            1. Professor
              16 May 2014 16: 11
              0
              Quote: Al_lexx
              I don’t recognize google, nor do cocacola.

              But this does not stop you from recognizing the American invention by the keys of which you are now knocking and the American processor in this invention.

              Quote: Al_lexx
              Those. if you specifically cut the truth-womb, then the bill will not be in your favor.

              To cut the truth, you need to know it, and not talk nonsense about "Zionism and Talmudism."

              Quote: Al_lexx
              If we isolate the five to ten Jewish families that rule the IMF and Washington and the same number of Saudi families, the world will forget about world wars for hundreds of years.

              Bravo. good I always suspected that Jews were to blame for everything, especially in world wars.
            2. Marine One
              Marine One 16 May 2014 18: 07
              0
              Quote: Al_lexx
              Nevertheless, I say again that the problem is not in the Jews, as such, but in Zionism and Talmudism.


              Another important role is played by the fact that some citizens have a push instead of a head.
  4. Rebus
    Rebus 15 May 2014 09: 38
    +6
    Was there any point in rebuilding Israel? (rhetorical question!)


    Matthew (chapter 23)

    37 Jerusalem, Jerusalem, beating the prophets and stoning those who were sent to you with stones! how many times have I wanted to gather your children, like a bird gathers its chicks under its wings, and you did not want to!
    38 Behold, your house is left to you. ...
    1. Kassandra
      Kassandra 15 May 2014 10: 11
      +8
      there were even two:
      1. which the professor correctly pointed out (to move England to the region and secure a base in the Mediterranean, and even next to Suez)
      2. much more important is to get rid of ... laughing those who went there.
      1. smile
        smile 15 May 2014 11: 09
        14
        Kassandra
        Let me disagree with the fact that someone about to get rid of the Jews. Our state was international, and nobody was going to get rid of any nationality, especially after such demographic losses.
        By the way, the Professor may not be offended, but Jewish propagandists who urged Jews to leave the USSR, for example during perestroika, very actively fanned the topic of anti-Semitism in the USSR, not disdaining to use deliberate direct lies. If only they left.
        1. Kassandra
          Kassandra 15 May 2014 19: 16
          +1
          I didn’t have the word “Jews”?
        2. Kassandra
          Kassandra 15 May 2014 19: 52
          +2
          when emigrating to Israel, it’s good when your grandfather is Jewish, and not when your mother is Jewish
          the Jews there do not make up the majority
          from the USSR they traveled mainly to the USA, and from the Russian Federation to Germany.
          1. smile
            smile 15 May 2014 21: 29
            +1
            Kassandra
            Even purely Russian spouses of those who were, to some extent, Jews, went to Israel and received nothing normally. And with the fact that they mainly traveled from the USSR to the USA, from the Russian Federation to Germany, I agree, to a large extent - this is so ..
          2. Professor
            16 May 2014 12: 46
            0
            Quote: Kassandra
            from the USSR they traveled mainly to the USA, and from the Russian Federation to Germany

            numbers in the studio
            1. Kassandra
              Kassandra 16 May 2014 17: 57
              +1
              are you in the country of fools or something?
              1. Professor
                16 May 2014 18: 30
                +1
                Quote: Kassandra
                are you in the country of fools or something?

                a "specific" answer to a specific question.
                1. Kassandra
                  Kassandra 17 May 2014 09: 57
                  0
                  specifically "field of miracles" where?
          3. atalef
            atalef 17 May 2014 10: 18
            -1
            Quote: Kassandra
            Emigration to Israel suits when your grandfather is a Jew

            What a fairy tale. Jewish nationality is determined by mother. If the mother’s grandmother is Jewish, you’re a Jew machine, if your dad (and your mother is not 0, you’re not Jewish. But anyone with a grandfather and only he was Jewish has the right to enter Israel (although he will not be considered a Jew in Israel) - “Why are they allowed to enter? Because the Nazis destroyed everyone whose Jews were from their grandfather and lower — and in the camp they considered it not fair, people (with a degree of kinship only grandfather in the 3rd generation) whom Hitler destroyed as Jews - not to be allowed into Israel and not to give citizenship.
            1. Kassandra
              Kassandra 17 May 2014 10: 22
              +2
              Well, how was it written?
              it's in the synagogue and not in dry
              do not tell "honesty" ...
        3. Professor
          16 May 2014 12: 45
          +1
          Quote: smile
          By the way, the Professor may not be offended, but Jewish propagandists who urged Jews to leave the USSR, for example during perestroika, very actively fanned the topic of anti-Semitism in the USSR, not disdaining to use deliberate direct lies. If only they left.

          But the Jews of the CCCP did not suspect this? laughing
        4. Al_lexx
          Al_lexx 16 May 2014 12: 55
          +3
          Quote: smile
          Kassandra
          Let me disagree with the fact that someone about to get rid of the Jews. Our state was international, and nobody was going to get rid of any nationality, especially after such demographic losses.
          By the way, the Professor may not be offended, but Jewish propagandists who urged Jews to leave the USSR, for example during perestroika, very actively fanned the topic of anti-Semitism in the USSR, not disdaining to use deliberate direct lies. If only they left.

          100500
          1. Kassandra
            Kassandra 16 May 2014 17: 59
            +1
            I have never mentioned the word "Jews" on this issue.
            it was written "get rid of those who went there"
        5. atalef
          atalef 17 May 2014 10: 10
          0
          Quote: smile
          By the way, the Professor may not be offended, but Jewish propagandists who urged Jews to leave the USSR, for example during perestroika, very actively fanned the topic of anti-Semitism in the USSR, not disdaining to use deliberate direct lies. If only they left.

          In general, the topic of anti-Semitism (of which there was no type in the USSR) can be inflated indefinitely. But --- if people did not feel it. then from what (excuse me horseradish) as soon as the gates were opened - most of the Jews got up so amicably. abandoned everything and left? Agree with me, the bulk of (Jews) somehow lived (financially) in the USSR, well, not in the worst way. Nevertheless, they got up and left. So probably not all was so simple. because at the human level, how much do not say. that there are anti-Semites around - if he doesn’t feel it (personally) then who the hell will persuade him.
          Therefore, believe me. and they didn’t take everything at universities or work everywhere, and it’s enough to read a huge number of comments on high school - where did all this come from - if this was not in the USSR?
          In Russian, the word Jew has always been abusive and generally forbidden and uncomfortable. I felt this always living in the USSR.

          Quote: smile
          for example, during perestroika, the topic of anti-Semitism in the USSR was very actively fanned, not shying away from using deliberate direct lies.

          I say again, who was fanning at all? Israel - A lot of him heard in the USSR. In the media? Who? all media were controlled by the CPSU.
          People felt it themselves and simply did not want to live in it anymore.
          I am far from thinking. that everyone left because of anti-Semitism. many went for a better life (in Israel laughing - with his wars. heat and plowing from morning to evening) - so they quickly became disillusioned and drove on - some to Canada, some to the States, who returned.
          But the bulk remained and did not want to hear somewhere to leave - had suffered enough. By the way, anti-Semitism exists everywhere to a greater or lesser extent (like Russophobia, etc.), but at the moment we are talking about the USSR - to say that there was no anti-Semitism, and at the state level it’s silly. This is a fact. It can be recognized or not, but it was. Universities accepted on quotas. And at MPEI (where I wanted to go) they simply told me in plain text --- don't even think. And this is in 1986.
          1. Kassandra
            Kassandra 17 May 2014 10: 25
            +1
            that something like this does not fit with the personages of those in the USSR by nationality who had the highest: only Belarusians were worse than Russians - 11 and 9 per 1000
            Jews - 440
            maybe you were not allowed by "your own", because it is already cramped?
    2. shalomnet
      shalomnet 15 May 2014 21: 05
      -1
      Who is Matvey? Moti Gur ... Matityahu, I heard there is one. But Moti-Matvey ..? I’m not familiar. Was a Jew? He lived in Israel or in Palestine?
  5. Lk17619
    Lk17619 15 May 2014 09: 39
    +9
    Something again, citizens from Israel intensified)))), then their drones are the most unmanned in the world, then the uzi are the coolest in the world, which was lapped with a Czech machine gun. What is your May exacerbation? Forty years Moses drove the Jews through the desert, but could not get them anywhere))). But to beat Stalin, yes .... Much is not necessary. Himself not ashamed?
    1. Professor
      15 May 2014 09: 54
      -1
      Quote: Lk17619
      Himself not ashamed?

      Very ashamed. repeat Myths about how "Stalin created Israel" are tired and tired of listening to how everyone should be.
      1. Lk17619
        Lk17619 15 May 2014 09: 57
        +8
        Quote: Professor
        I'm tired of listening to how everyone should crib to him.

        Many owe him a coffin; he re-created the empire. And the voice of the USSR was decisive in the creation of Israel. And so they would have lived in a British colony to this day and would have been
        Quote: Silhouette
        To this day, would be in the position of "Hamas" (terrorists and national-fascists)
        1. smile
          smile 15 May 2014 11: 13
          +4
          Lk17619
          Well, actually, Britain lost the colonies mainly under pressure from the United States, which preferred to select these colonies and crush them for themselves, only by other methods. As they say - friendship-friendship .... :)))
          Although the role of Stalin should not be underestimated either ...
          1. Lk17619
            Lk17619 15 May 2014 11: 56
            +4
            smile Well, they wouldn’t live in a British colony, but in an American one, the difference is what, although roughly speaking it is almost a colony of the United States, the sons of Israel lie under them))).
          2. wax
            wax 15 May 2014 12: 24
            +4
            The colonial system in its classical version was destroyed as a result of the victory of the USSR in the war against fascism.
            1. smile
              smile 15 May 2014 13: 55
              +3
              wax
              Yes, to a large extent this is so. But one should also not underestimate the actions of the United States, which sought to crush its allies, deprive them of their independence, and redistribute their resources, including the colonies, in their favor. It was Britain that Roosevelt began to pressure in this regard at the height of 2 MB, when it actually became dependent.
              By the way, remember, when Britain, France, together with Israel tried to gouge Egypt, and we shuganul them, threatening to give them a tinsel, the USA practically did not support them. They simply did not need to strengthen the colonial empires of the Old World, in view of the fact that this would reduce their dependence on their main ally.
              1. 225chay
                225chay 15 May 2014 14: 02
                -8
                Quote: smile
                By the way, remember, when Britain, France, together with Israel tried to gouge Egypt, and we shuganul them, threatening to put them in tinsel,

                ))))))))) Pitbull shuganul Britain and with Storage ...)) You are healthy gendarme to shug these armies
                You graduated from EastFilfak rather weakly
                1. smile
                  smile 15 May 2014 16: 14
                  +5
                  225chay
                  You know, I have nothing against the nerds - they are, in any case, much smarter than you, but I have to disappoint you - I did not finish either the historical or the philological fact. :)))
                  And I don't serve in the gendarmerie. And if you had read more attentively, at least three times, then you would probably have realized that while we scared the Europeans, the United States, which had a "weight" comparable to ours, did not intervene, despite the fact that their allies ... did not wish ... so you understand better? Let me ask you a question, did you have any blunt and hard wounds in your head, for example, a log? And that is very similar ... :))))
                  1. 225chay
                    225chay 15 May 2014 18: 57
                    -5
                    Quote: smile
                    Let me ask a question, did you have any blunt and hard injuries in your head, for example, logs? And that is very similar ... :))))


                    I do not mind laughing even at myself))
                    Indeed, for the gendarme you are kind of too smart.
                    It seems to be right, and even as if fair, you portray everything.
                    Everything is laid out on shelves as if,
                    only for some reason you put products (a bag of flour for example) and herring with a smell on one shelf;
                    and to clean headdresses, for example, to women’s output shawls - unwashed footcloths ...
                    And it seems he was raised in an intelligent family by his mother
                    And so nothing, I have no complaints))
                    1. smile
                      smile 15 May 2014 21: 43
                      0
                      225chay
                      Well, I was raised in a military family, my mother was also wearing uniform, started serving as a sober and ended up as a senior police investigator for particularly important cases. I went into perestroika when the actual ethnic cleansing of law enforcement agencies began in Lithuania ... so that my family is nowhere more intelligent:))) .... so what is the iron order, and where to put footcloths, I know from an early childhood ... :)))

                      And about the rest ... here you are strange, according to your words, it turns out that you have nothing to object to, but something in my words you do not like .... at the same time say exactly, you can’t ... :)) ) Are you sure you are right? :)))
                      As for chuckling at myself, I welcome such a quality, which means you are not yet lost to society ... :)))
                      Well, what about the fact that you have no complaints against me .... honestly I’ll tell you - I’m happy as ever !!! :))))
            2. Al_lexx
              Al_lexx 16 May 2014 12: 57
              0
              Quote: Wax
              The colonial system in its classical version was destroyed as a result of the victory of the USSR in the war against fascism.

              Yes.
              And then a new, but more sophisticated colonial system was created.
        2. atalef
          atalef 17 May 2014 10: 21
          0
          Quote: Lk17619
          And the voice of the USSR was decisive in the creation of Israel


          At the UN, the voice of the USSR was powerful, but it cannot be the decisive voice by definition of the work of the UN.

          At the Gen. Assembly - the voice of the USSR was no more decisive than the voice of any Mozambique (though it wasn’t there then)
          At the General Assembly, resolutions are submitted by automatic vote counting and nothing more.
          1. aquatic
            aquatic 17 May 2014 17: 12
            0
            vote Stalin against) the plan would not be adopted, he voted in favor - the plan was accepted) this is the decisive vote)
      2. Kassandra
        Kassandra 15 May 2014 10: 23
        +1
        interest is growing ... why not get tired?
      3. Svetlana
        Svetlana 15 May 2014 11: 38
        10
        But we are tired of Jewish nagging that someone constantly does not allow them to live in peace and infringes on their rights, blames them in vain for various crimes that they never committed. You now (already 66 years ago) have Israel, so you live there peacefully. What do you always spread around the world like an epidemic? There is not enough space for you all and climb precisely to the place where you are most infringed on your rights and unjustly accused. Why do not you live in peace, what else do you need from us? Now you poke Stalin, then reproach the Holocaust, then something else. Yes, no one ever loved you and will not love you, and they will always drive you from everywhere, like centuries and millennia ago. Stalin still tolerated you, appreciated Jewish cultural figures and scientists. You do not appreciate and do not understand the normal attitude, you cannot live so as not to do any dirty tricks. Finish, after all, Russian patience at some point comes to an end, there will be a new Svyatoslav on you.
        1. Professor
          16 May 2014 15: 07
          +2
          Quote: Svetlana
          You now (already 66 years old) have Israel, so you live there peacefully.

          Trying as we can. Do not meddle in our affairs and see the world comes.

          Quote: Svetlana
          What do you always spread around the world like an epidemic?

          Teach history, maybe it will help you. Although unlikely, Natsik usually compare people with infection.

          Quote: Svetlana
          Now you poke Stalin, then reproach the Holocaust, then something else.

          Please note that the word "Holocaust" was not mentioned in the article, and by members of the forum with an Israeli flag, too.

          Quote: Svetlana
          Yes, no one ever loved you and will not love you, and they will always drive you from everywhere, like centuries and millennia ago.

          Please list the list of whom, who and where you loved? wink

          Quote: Svetlana
          You do not appreciate and do not understand the normal attitude, you cannot live so as not to do any dirty tricks.

          You and I have different concepts of "normal attitude".

          Quote: Svetlana
          Finish, after all, Russian patience at some point comes to an end, there will be a new Svyatoslav on you.

          I'm so scared that my knees are shaking. wassat
        2. atalef
          atalef 17 May 2014 10: 26
          +1
          Quote: Svetlana
          Yes, no one ever loved you and will not love you, and they will always drive you from everywhere, like centuries and millennia ago.

          At the same time, of course, in the USSR (as well as in Russia) - such a thing as anti-Semitism never existed and Jews never infringed --- according to many post authors in this article.
          Svetlana - you spoil the general picture of friendship of peoples laughing
      4. dmb
        dmb 15 May 2014 11: 46
        +6
        I probably agree with you about the myths about Stalin in general and about the creation of Israel in particular. But the fact that assistance in creating the state of Israel was provided is not a secret. (In particular, that intelligence was created with our participation, I know from a personal conversation with Kozlov). I understand that this was done primarily to strengthen the position of the USSR in the Middle East and was clearly not caused by Stalin's touching concern for the Jewish people. But the question is, why did Stalin have to take care of him? He was a pragmatist.
        1. Professor
          16 May 2014 15: 09
          0
          Quote: dmb
          In particular, that intelligence was created with our participation, I know from a personal conversation with Kozlov

          How did I forget to dispel this myth in an article? Edit?
      5. aquatic
        aquatic 15 May 2014 19: 14
        +8
        Are myths tired? do not breed them)
        1. 2/3 votes were needed for making a decision for the UN; I repeat once again, not a simple majority but 2/3 votes, and in this context, those 6 votes of Stalin play a decisive role, right? Did you not know about this professor or deliberately omitted a piece of copied text?
        2. Who was the first to legally recognize the newly created state? who recognized Kosovo first?) who is Abkhazia? Ossetia?
        who dines to the girl and dances sorry)

        how did you write so many letters, and decided to omit the key points that really correspond to the title of the article, I think this is ugly) well, and minus, respectively, for not matching the text of the article and the title.
        1. Professor
          16 May 2014 15: 12
          -3
          Quote: aquatic
          2/3 of the votes were needed for making a decision for the United Nations, I repeat once again, not a simple majority but 2/3 of the votes, and in this context, those 6 votes of Stalin play a decisive role, right?

          no role. at the time of the vote, the state of Israel existed de facto and Britain returned the mandate.

          Quote: aquatic
          Did you not know about this professor or deliberately omitted a piece of copied text?

          I don’t practice copy-paste.

          Quote: aquatic
          2. Who was the first to legally recognize the newly created state? who recognized Kosovo first?) who is Abkhazia? Ossetia?
          who dines to the girl and dances sorry)

          Are you literate? Can you read? If so, find in the list of events related to the creation of Israel, where did Stalin "dance"?

          how did you write so many letters, and decided to omit the key points that really correspond to the title of the article, I think this is ugly) well, and minus, respectively, for not matching the text of the article and the title.

          What was the cause? Come on, write us in detail how "Stalin created Israel"? Do not forget to tell about the Order of the Red Star of Moshe Dayan. laughing
        2. atalef
          atalef 17 May 2014 10: 33
          0
          Quote: aquatic
          2/3 of the votes needed to make a decision for the United Nations, I repeat once again, not a simple majority but 2/3 of the vote, and in this context, those 6 votes of Stalin play a decisive role

          No matter what role Israel played, de facto existed
          I will give you a simple example
          South Ossetia, Abkhazia - practically no one has recognized (except Russia and 3-4 more) states - you will say. that these are not separate states? The accession of Crimea is the same as that at the UN level did not recognize what? Crimea remained Ukrainian from this?
          De facto Israel was and was not just there, all the institutions of power were created in it. monetary system. army, police. education and health systems-- the UN only confirmed what already existed
          Israel began to be created after a vote at the UN. he was already. Therefore, when the armies of 8 Arab states attacked (the day after the proclamation of Israel), they were defeated. Israel has already been.
          Voting did not play a role.
          How did not play a role with Abkhazia. neither with Ossetia nor with Crimea.
          1. Kassandra
            Kassandra 17 May 2014 21: 52
            +3
            Almost all weapons were de facto from the Department of Internal Affairs (USSR) and England did not want to leave the mandated Palestine it had recaptured from the Turks.
            weapons were supplied by captured German or Czech, because "Jews with PPSh" it would have been too noticeable
            Moshe Dayan has the Red Star battle order, as well as a couple of hundred Hagana professional military men who were sent there by Headquarters
            and then there was already a vote at the UN that would not have passed without six votes from the USSR.
            1. singaporian
              singaporian April 18 2019 23: 48
              0
              And how long has the USSR begun to produce Spitfires? And this was the only plane in Israel in the first war.
    2. Kassandra
      Kassandra 15 May 2014 10: 11
      +1
      are you still asking
    3. kush62
      kush62 15 May 2014 12: 43
      +6
      Forty years Moses drove the Jews through the desert, but could not get them anywhere))). But to beat Stalin, yes .... Much is not necessary. Himself not ashamed?


      Forty years Moses drove the Jews through the desert and found a place where there is no gas or oil.
      1. Kassandra
        Kassandra 15 May 2014 20: 06
        +2
        In general, Susanin did not receive from him, probably the climate was not the same.
    4. Al_lexx
      Al_lexx 16 May 2014 13: 59
      +1
      Quote: Lk17619
      Forty years Moses drove the Jews through the desert, but could not get them anywhere))).

      Yes, no one drove anyone.
      These are all myths that would indicate their exclusivity.
  6. Silhouette
    Silhouette 15 May 2014 09: 45
    +3
    Stalin did the most important thing for Israel - the possibility of legitimizing its existence. Without Stalin's permission, the Zionists would not have been able to organize their state through the UN on such a dubious basis as the mention in the Old Testament. To this day, they would be in the position of "Hamas" (terrorists and national-fascists). Of course, Israel is the same mistake of Stalin, and the same artificial, unviable state without external assistance, like Ukraine. In my opinion now this is especially clear to everyone.
    1. zaazua
      zaazua 15 May 2014 10: 32
      0
      You are an interesting person, you learned to write, but you don’t read very much! First you read the article, and then refute what you do not agree with.
      1. aquatic
        aquatic 15 May 2014 19: 23
        +2
        Everything was correctly written to you by Silhouette, not the voices of Stalin, there would be no state of Israel, there would have been Israelis on Palestinian territory. The title of the article explicitly speaks of the creation of a state which, without Stalin’s decision, wouldn’t exist if you liked it or not.
        and to backfill you with a question: who was the first to establish deep relations with the newly created state? who provided quick and effective military assistance to the new state in the very first days of its existence when regular troops of neighboring countries invaded its territory.
        Refute) You can read)
        1. zaazua
          zaazua 15 May 2014 19: 33
          -4
          not the votes of Stalin, the state of Israel would not be

          Voted for the adoption of the plan (33)
          Against the plan voted (13)
          would :
          Voted for the adoption of the plan (28)
          Against the plan voted (18)
          1. aquatic
            aquatic 15 May 2014 19: 45
            +2
            If the ratio of votes is 28 for - 18 against, the plan would not be adopted, read the voting rules.
        2. Professor
          16 May 2014 15: 20
          +1
          Quote: aquatic
          Everything was correctly written to you by Silhouette, not the voices of Stalin, there would be no state of Israel, there would have been Israelis on Palestinian territory.

          The Chukchi is not a reader, the Chukchi is a writer ... When there was a "Palestinian territory". Please indicate in what year.

          Quote: aquatic
          and to backfill you with a question: who was the first to establish deep relations with the newly created state?

          De jure USSR, de facto USA.
          Does this relate to building a Jewish state? By the way, there are still quite a few countries that do not recognize the existence of Israel. So what? He ceased to exist from this? wink

          Quote: aquatic
          who provided quick and effective military assistance to the new state in the very first days of its existence when regular troops of neighboring countries invaded its territory.

          Can you tell us more about "effective military assistance"? Otherwise I missed something in the article ...
          1. aquatic
            aquatic 17 May 2014 09: 09
            0
            1. if there weren’t Stalin’s vote in a UN vote, there would be no state of Israel de jure, at least at that moment.
            2. Not Stalin’s help in arming and training the army of the new state would not be the state of Israel de facto.

            Stalin went on a coup in Czechoslovakia, which subsequently led to the emergence of NATO, the Cold War, etc., this coup gave Israel weapons and knowledge of its use.

            Meir Golda "Who knows if we would have resisted if it had not been for the weapons and ammunition that we were able to purchase from Czechoslovakia and transport through Yugoslavia and other Balkan countries in those dark days of the outbreak of the war, until the situation changed in June XNUMX?
            In the first six weeks of the war, we relied heavily on the shells, machine guns and bullets that the Haganah managed to buy from Eastern Europe - while even America declared an embargo on the shipment of weapons to the Middle East ... Despite the fact that the Soviet Union subsequently turned so violently against us, Soviet recognition of Israel was of great importance to us. "

            The Israeli military bought cheaply old English Spitfires and captured German Me-109s. In the Brno area, they were disassembled and sent to Israel. Volunteer pilots illegally came to Czechoslovakia. At the airport in Ceske Budejovice, they got acquainted with the planes that were to be piloted, and set off for Israel. In the territory of Czechoslovakia, not only future Israeli pilots were trained. There, in Ceske Budejovice, trained tankmen and paratroopers. Fifteen hundred foot soldiers of the Israel Defense Forces were trained in Olomouc, and another two thousand in Mikulov. They formed a part, which was originally called "Brigade them. Gotvalda ", the brigade was transferred to Palestine through Italy. Medical staff was trained in Wielka Strebn. Radio operators and telegraphers - in Liberec. Electrical Engineers - in Pardubice. Soviet instructors lectured young Israelis on political topics.
            The purchases of military property in Czechoslovakia were handled, in particular, by the recent sergeant and commander of the machine gun department in the British army, Israel Tal, the future general and commander of the armored forces of the Israel Defense Forces.


            The future air force commander, General Mordechai Hod, also studied flying in Czechoslovakia. His grandfather once left Russia for Palestine. During the six-day war, his pilots destroyed Egyptian aircraft right at the airfields.

            It is sad that even in Israel they are trying to forget their history.
            1. Professor
              17 May 2014 10: 06
              +1
              Quote: aquatic
              It is sad that even in Israel they are trying to forget their history.

              That’s what, and they know their history well in Israel. Each event is disassembled by cogs.
              https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/36464583/The_Palmach_Air_Unit.pdf

              https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/36464583/Toldot_Heil_HaavirA.pdf
              1. Kassandra
                Kassandra 17 May 2014 10: 09
                0
                what, right at all?
              2. aquatic
                aquatic 17 May 2014 17: 05
                0
                I am not a reader in this language) if there is a text in Russian, English or German, I read it with pleasure)
    2. smile
      smile 15 May 2014 12: 16
      +3
      Silhouette
      Be that as it may, the Jews proved the viability of Israel with arms in hand. And the fact that they tried to create it for a long time and painstakingly, and not all attempts were successful, just proves the viability of what was created, that the Jews had the will to create and strengthen their own country by any means, without stopping at anything.
      What about Ukraine? There is nothing of the kind there .... apart from the attempt to create Ukrainian statehood, the destruction of the population under the command of the Nazis? And given that the main part of the ideologists of Ukrainianism are the children who worked for Austria-Hungary, then for the Nazis, then you want to cry to the origins of Ukrainian statehood ...
      1. Silhouette
        Silhouette 15 May 2014 12: 39
        +2
        The vitality of Israel from the moment of its creation to this day depends on the Jewish lobby of the USA, England and France, the vitality of Ukraine - on Russia ... Any doubts?
        1. smile
          smile 15 May 2014 14: 10
          +4
          Silhouette
          I agree. But to a large extent, the Ukrainian political elite was formed under the influence of the strongest Ukrainian lobby in the United States and Canada, which is entirely Bandera's due to the fact that thousands of war criminals have found shelter in these countries, covered by the US special services so that they could be used against us. For example, to work in the "bloc of enslaved peoples" created by the Nazis by the hands of Ukrainian fascists, which the United States has preserved and cherished. Look at Leontyev's film - "Orange Children of the Third Reich", there it is sufficiently argued.
          And the vitality of Ukraine depended on whether its leadership would pursue a Russophobic policy or try to live together. Now there is no statehood of Ukraine, it was beaten with a bat on the Maidan and burned alive in Odessa ... the state is agonizing. And even if we lose our minds and support the junta, this state is doomed .... there cannot be a viable state in which one half wants to turn the other half into second-class people, and even with such methods.
          By the way, despite the fact that Israel is heavily dependent on the United States and is its closest ally in the BV, Jews are trying to get rid of dependence and pursue an independent policy. Which is by no means welcomed by the Americans. And what do independent people do? They are trying to get into the ass owners deeper ... The difference is obvious ... :)))
        2. Al_lexx
          Al_lexx 16 May 2014 14: 02
          0
          Quote: Silhouette
          The vitality of Israel from the moment of its creation to this day depends on the Jewish lobby of the USA, England and France, the vitality of Ukraine - on Russia ... Any doubts?

          And what, in Russia there is no Jewish lobby?
        3. Professor
          16 May 2014 15: 21
          +1
          Quote: Silhouette
          The vitality of Israel from the moment of its creation to this day depends on the Jewish lobby of the USA, England and France, the vitality of Ukraine - on Russia ... Any doubts?

          Tell me, does Mozambique also have a Jewish lobby? Well, type in f \ France is, it means everywhere. laughing
          1. Silhouette
            Silhouette 16 May 2014 17: 26
            0
            I don’t know about Mozambique, but you yourself know that the president of France was the Jew Sarkozy. Yes, and the Dutchman (aka Oland) - from the same opera.
            1. Professor
              16 May 2014 17: 31
              0
              Quote: Silhouette
              I don’t know about Mozambique, but you yourself know that the president of France was the Jew Sarkozy. Yes, and the Dutchman (aka Oland) - from the same opera.

              Which Sarkozy Jew do we know, but what about the lobby? The Jewish lobby of England? Do you even know what a lobby is or have you used it for a red word?
              1. Silhouette
                Silhouette 16 May 2014 17: 43
                +1
                Can you share which Jew from Kolomoisky?
                1. Professor
                  16 May 2014 17: 52
                  +1
                  Quote: Silhouette
                  Can you share which Jew from Kolomoisky?

                  In my opinion Kolomoisky was born into a Jewish family, and Sarkozy? And what about the lobby? studied the material?
          2. Kassandra
            Kassandra 16 May 2014 18: 04
            0
            if in kenya there is (and it has recently been pretty much burned) then why can't it be in Mozambique?
      2. kush62
        kush62 15 May 2014 12: 47
        0
        What about Ukraine? There is nothing of the kind there .... apart from the attempt to create Ukrainian statehood, the destruction of the population under the command of the Nazis?

        Jews fought (at that time) to create their own country, defending themselves.
        And Kiev Ukraine (at present) is trying to create its own, destroying others.
        1. Silhouette
          Silhouette 15 May 2014 13: 36
          +3
          The creation of Israeli statehood is based on discrimination and squeezing Palestinians, the creation of Ukrainian statehood is based on the Ukrainization of Russians in Ukraine. In both cases, it is fascism. As Israel seeks to prevent Palestinian statehood, which have the right to do so by the same UN decision that gave birth to it, so the Bandera authorities of Ukraine seek to prevent the creation of New Russia.
          The analogy is complete, whatever one may say.
          1. Professor
            16 May 2014 15: 24
            +1
            Quote: Silhouette
            As Israel seeks to prevent Palestinian statehood, which have the right to do so by the same UN decision that gave birth to it, so the Bandera authorities of Ukraine seek to prevent the creation of New Russia.

            Stop lying. Not everyone is stupid here. What are the Palestinians in general? The Gaza Strip annexed Egypt, not Israel. Jordan annexed the West Bank, not Israel. And then the Palestinians were called Jews. Learn the story.
            1. Kassandra
              Kassandra 17 May 2014 10: 28
              0
              and blacks - white ...
          2. singaporian
            singaporian April 19 2019 00: 00
            0
            based on discrimination and squeezing of Palestinians

            Do you even know that in Hebrew "palest" (פלשת) means "to invade"?
            The Palestinians (Philistines) were the tribes of the Hittites who invaded from Crete. They, like the Canaanites and the Samaritans, had long ago mingled with the Jews. Every Jew has the blood of a "Palestinian". And the Arabs came much later and there were almost no Jews there - they did not mix. As well as the Hittites.

            In addition, before the country was renamed to Israel, the people there were called Palestinian Jews and Palestinian Arabs.

            Therefore, when you talk about discrimination against Palestinians, it's like saying that Russian drevlians are oppressed in St. Petersburg. They invented the time machine and oppress themselves.
      3. 225chay
        225chay 15 May 2014 14: 28
        +2
        Quote: smile
        not to consider the attempt to create Ukrainian statehood, the destruction of the population under the command of the Nazis? And if you consider that the bulk of the ideologists of Ukrainianism are the guys who worked for Austria-Hungary, then for the Nazis, then cry

        The leaders of present-day Ukraine are Turchyny, Yaytsenuni, by the way, and Yuli Timashenko (capitelman-Grigyany) and Tyahniboki and Klitschki and Kalomoisky with PARAShenka all with Jewish roots, you will not deny this?
        Then is it true that you call them fascists means that fascism and Nazism were created by the "God-chosen" themselves, given that Hitler was financed by them?
        I’ll make a reservation right away that I’m not a fascist and not antietotsamy ... I just like to laugh sometimes
        1. smile
          smile 15 May 2014 16: 27
          +7
          225chay
          Yeah, are the Jews to blame for the Ukrainian mess? :))) Of course, it’s very strange for me, when some Jewish comrades say that in Ukraine there are no Bandera and fascists, and all fascists live with us (as, for example, this is said by a professor who strongly recommends not to watch our media :)) )), it’s also surprising for me to see Bandera Jews .... :))) Agree, a strange sight is a Jew screaming to Slavuheroi, alternating praise of the Nazis with sad references to the Holocaust .... :))) but also slide down to your hints that even the fact that Jews are not to blame for apricots on the moon is also unreasonable, gently speaking. :)))

          Just the Jews, like us, are different, one for those, others for others. They are no worse than us, but no better. And the fact that they didn’t have a vaccine against fascism testifies to the fact that propaganda works the same for everyone regardless of nationality. And this also seems to be an indicator - what and what the media are talking about, not only in Ukraine. but also in Israel. :)))
          1. Corsair
            Corsair 15 May 2014 17: 19
            +2
            Quote: smile
            Of course, it’s very strange for me, when some Jewish comrades say that in Ukraine there are no Bandera and fascists, and all fascists live with us (as, for example, this is said by a professor who strongly recommends not to watch our media :)))), I it is also amazing to see Jews-Bandera .... :))) Agree, a strange sight - a Jew screaming to Slavukheroev, interspersing the praise of the Nazis with sad references to the Holocaust ....


            Greetings!

            I am not a supporter of the lynching of "world Zionism" which I have only heard about, as well as about "Masonic lodges", but which I have not seen request .

            But figure it outand finally, with what BRIGHTLY BURNED representative of this nation Benya Kolomoisky gets up to territoryworth it.
            Moreover, the Jews themselves, in order to get rid of the accusations of supporting the attempt to revenge Nazism in Europe ...
            1. smile
              smile 15 May 2014 19: 00
              +2
              Corsair
              Hello!
              I absolutely agree. It is especially strange that the Jewish leaders of Ukraine are somehow in no hurry to condemn the real fascist Benya, or at least dissociate themselves from him, just as they are in no hurry to condemn the planting of Bandera.
              The negotiations laid out today on the website are very indicative - at first Benin threatened Tsarev, in which he stated that an order for his head was almost announced in the synagogues of Odessa during the service :))), and the second - Noginsky lamented that Benya was completely coils flew and discredits the Jewish community ... especially if the conversations are posted on the net ...
              1. Corsair
                Corsair 15 May 2014 19: 31
                +1
                Quote: smile
                Benin with threats to Tsarev, in which he said that in the synagogues of Odessa during the service, an order for his head was almost announced
                It turns out the synagogues in territorybecome a center for ordering and organizing murders?
                And how does the so-called "world Jewry" react ???
                1. smile
                  smile 15 May 2014 21: 22
                  +2
                  Corsair
                  Yes, it seems that the synagogue had nothing to do with it, since Noginsky was indignant at the Nazi-Beni’s similar words, and his interlocutor was amazed and swore that he himself was at the services and didn’t hear anything of this ... Benya was out of habit, trying to frighten Tsarev ... Well, what else can you expect from Bandera ... though of Jewish nationality ... :)))
                  But both interlocutors clearly strained from Beni's similar balabolstvo.
                  But world Jewry is outrageous, in my opinion, blinded and deaf ... they don’t see anything like that in Ukraine, of course there are exceptions, but not as many as we would like ... Here is a professor, he still doesn’t see, he believes that there are no Bandera and fascists in Ukraine, but there are just not so many Natsiks, less than ours .... and our media thought up the rest .... this is such a crap ... Probably, some forgot that the German National Socialists, too, were simply Natsik, until blood sipped and came to power .... the autonomous cannibals blood already Ali, and came to power ....
                  1. Professor
                    16 May 2014 15: 30
                    0
                    Quote: smile
                    The professor, for the time being, also does not see, believes that there are no Bandera and fascists in Ukraine, and there are only not so many Natsiks, less than ours .... and our media thought up the rest .... here such a crap ...

                    Last Bandera in Ukraine died last year, the Nazis in Russia no less than in Ukraine. You and your first deal. Or, give this to the Israeli nation to Israel, otherwise it has found a roof on your territory and Russia will not give it away. Why?
              2. The comment was deleted.
              3. The comment was deleted.
              4. Kassandra
                Kassandra 15 May 2014 20: 18
                +1
                he flew off the coils for a long time, and he was not alone. By publishing these videos they just wanted to distance themselves from this ...
                By the way, the slogan that someone needs to be beaten and thereby save something is quite relevant, because when psychos lack haloperidol and straitjackets, then in madhouses and on the streets they do just that. otherwise they will all go crazy and do mischief in general.
                in the end, it’s not spivakov or even oistrakh, the sufferer’s instrument will not fall under the vector of obstruction.
              5. Kassandra
                Kassandra 15 May 2014 21: 17
                +2
                Kolomoisky is not a Jew in the usual sense of the word.
                such frenzied (written in three letters) Jews themselves shun, are afraid and really dislike. I know this not by hearsay.
                the fact that he was chosen somewhere for something and shown on the Internet doesn’t mean anything - there are a lot of fake wedding generals with their escort services, lime trees, roofs and all that. and such psychos understand only when they are beaten or injected with a sedative.
          2. 225chay
            225chay 15 May 2014 19: 15
            +1
            Quote: smile
            225chay
            Yeah, are the Jews to blame for the Ukrainian mess? :

            Did I say that?
            I mean that even in Russia and in Ukraine itself, this can already be seen with the naked eye in all coups, political and economic crises since 1917 91, 93 ... everywhere the "gentlemen" kept their finger on the pulse and controlled the process.
            This is world Zionism. Of course, not just everything indiscriminately.
            Well, at least a kalomoets with a parasite.
            And ordinary Jews and a huge (large) part of the Slavic people and Russians in general will suffer from these Rothschilds
            1. Kassandra
              Kassandra 15 May 2014 20: 05
              +2
              they will not but suffer, and for more than one century.
          3. Al_lexx
            Al_lexx 16 May 2014 14: 06
            +1
            Quote: smile
            225chay
            Yeah, are the Jews to blame for the Ukrainian mess? :))) Of course, it’s very strange for me, when some Jewish comrades say that in Ukraine there are no Bandera and fascists, and all fascists live with us (as, for example, this is said by a professor who strongly recommends not to watch our media :)) )), it’s also surprising for me to see Bandera Jews .... :))) Agree, a strange sight is a Jew screaming to Slavuheroi, alternating praise of the Nazis with sad references to the Holocaust .... :))) but also slide down to your hints that even the fact that Jews are not to blame for apricots on the moon is also unreasonable, gently speaking. :)))

            Just the Jews, like us, are different, one for those, others for others. They are no worse than us, but no better. And the fact that they didn’t have a vaccine against fascism testifies to the fact that propaganda works the same for everyone regardless of nationality. And this also seems to be an indicator - what and what the media are talking about, not only in Ukraine. but also in Israel. :)))

            100500

            I repeat once again. The problem is not with the Jews as such, but with Zionism, Hasidism and Talmudism. If this sore can be uprooted (as well as the Saudi claims to the entire Muslim world), then the world will become better, the world will forget about global wars for hundreds of years.
          4. Professor
            16 May 2014 15: 27
            +1
            Quote: smile
            Of course, it’s very strange for me, when some Jewish comrades say that in Ukraine there are no Bandera and fascists, and all fascists live with us (as, for example, this is said by a professor who strongly recommends not to watch our media :)))),

            It’s not true, I didn’t say that. I affirm that in Ukraine there are as many fascists as in Russia. Here is a photo from Russia for those who have forgotten. Guess with 3 times, these Natsik are in prison?
    3. velikoros-xnumx
      velikoros-xnumx 15 May 2014 19: 48
      0
      Signs:
      a state that is not viable without external assistance, like Ukraine

      I do not greatly regret the representatives of the chosen people, but here I fundamentally disagree with a statement that can be true only in the first years of the existence of Israel. The vitality of Israel is proved by the fact of its existence for more than 65 years, despite the hostile environment, and the comparison with Ukraine is at least incorrect, rather even delusional.
      1. Silhouette
        Silhouette 15 May 2014 20: 54
        0
        If 66 years ago Israel was a premature baby in a box connected to life support systems from different countries of the world with pipes, now this little boy has noticeably grown, overgrown with a beard, but he has not disconnected from life support systems ... Then the United States will give him money on the "Iron Dome", then the Germans will build 4 newest submarines for free .... Then the fighters will be planted with a full ammunition load ...
        1. Kus Imak
          Kus Imak 16 May 2014 10: 15
          +1
          Quote: Silhouette
          If 66 years ago Israel was a premature baby in a box connected to life support systems from different countries of the world with pipes, now this little boy has noticeably grown, overgrown with a beard, but he has not disconnected from life support systems ... Then the United States will give him money on the "Iron Dome", then the Germans will build 4 newest submarines for free .... Then the fighters will be planted with a full ammunition load ...


          And you would like for a country the size of a third of the Moscow region, 80% of the desert would be fully represented by all types of heavy industry, engineering, rare earth mining, etc. Without all these components, it is not possible to produce all modern types of weapons.
          This is practically not found in any country in the modern world. The example of Russia is a happy exception, we hope that the abundance of minerals will someday positively affect the living standards of the inhabitants of Russia.
          Or maybe Israel needs to create its own industry for the production of submarines? Invest hundreds of billions of dollars for the production of 5-6 submarines? Do you also start a dairy farm and a herd of cows for a liter of milk? Despite its small size, Israel is a leading producer in a number of areas. We make our own tanks, we sell drones to the whole world, and we are not lagging behind in many other areas of hi-tech. Israel should not be equated with the world superpowers of the past and present (USA, USSR / Russia, Germany, France, England). Compare Israel with the countries of its "weight" category: Singapore, Thailand, South Korea, etc. And at the same time, look at what is happening with Israel's closest neighbors: Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, Egypt. Where are they and where is Israel. All countries simultaneously freed themselves from colonial dependence. For 65 years Israel has learned to launch satellites, and neighboring countries cannot really feed their populations.
          1. Silhouette
            Silhouette 16 May 2014 12: 56
            +2
            I would like Israel to live at its own expense. Do you understand? Independent, held - this is yourself, without outside help. 66 years on tubes to each organ - this, I'm sorry, Golem. Well, on the brains trained outside their own country. Including yours.
            1. Kus Imak
              Kus Imak 16 May 2014 15: 56
              -3
              Quote: Silhouette
              I would like Israel to live at its own expense. Do you understand? Independent, held - this is yourself, without outside help. 66 years on tubes to each organ - this, I'm sorry, Golem. Well, on the brains trained outside their own country. Including yours.


              Why on earth should Israel refuse American military aid? This aid is the result of the Cape David agreement. Israel receives it as compensation for the transfer of the Sinai Peninsula with its oil fields to Egypt. Regarding the economic state of Israel and the pipes for each organ, then you simply do not have information. Israel is one of the fastest growing economies in the Mediterranean. In any case, our economic indicators are not worse than Russian ones, but in fact they are better. If earlier they gave about 8 rubles for a shekel, now it is already 10. Your ruble has really sunk. And regarding the use of my brains, say thank you to Shafarevich and the Memory Society, they did not need my brains 25 years ago.
              1. Kassandra
                Kassandra 16 May 2014 18: 09
                +2
                Quote: Kus Imak
                say thank you to Shafarevich and the Memory Society, they didn't need my brains 25 years ago.

                crying
                it's not even funny.
                1. Kus Imak
                  Kus Imak 17 May 2014 09: 56
                  -2
                  Quote: Kassandra

                  it's not even funny.

                  Yes, actually, there was no team to laugh.
                  1. Kassandra
                    Kassandra 17 May 2014 10: 07
                    0
                    how many bloody christian boys did they eat with you?
                  2. Kassandra
                    Kassandra 18 May 2014 05: 22
                    +1
                    "they" - Shafarevich and his Memory.
        2. singaporian
          singaporian April 19 2019 00: 08
          0
          Firstly, it is less than 10% of own defense spending. Secondly, the Americans also supply weapons to the enemies of Israel (to the enemies - conditionally, because more or less peace, but you understand). Thirdly, Israel pays for it. Either Sinai will give away, then the Lavi project will close, then he will help with developments in avionics, then the F-15 and F-35 will conduct combat tests out of plan (both received military baptism in Israel).
  7. 225chay
    225chay 15 May 2014 09: 47
    +6
    Well, "professor" is of course the ultimate truth)) if he said so, then of course ...
    But I wonder why it is when a pro-lover speaks here on the site, is it necessary to show the language? AND?
    I won’t be surprised that at that time I’m also twisting in my pocket or on Skype
  8. antibanukurayza
    antibanukurayza 15 May 2014 10: 10
    +9
    Jews are smart people. They created themselves, chose themselves before God, put themselves on the highest level of humanity. Now destroy yourself. The current policy of the Jews towards the Palestinians cannot be called anything other than fascist. Goebbels followers are bad. Kuzkina is your mother, not Al Aqsa.
    1. Lich
      Lich 15 May 2014 12: 44
      +7
      The current policy of the Jews towards the Palestinians cannot be called anything other than fascist

      Only recently I was in Israel, there is no fascism there, everyone lives normally side-by-side, they work, whoever wants it. Arabs are small-minded, large-scale Jews.
      And I was still in Palestine, it’s annoying there :) There are unshaven dudes with Kalash, freedom to Palestine, and so on, well, having learned that I am Russian, my mood immediately changed a little for the better:
      - Russ?
      - Rus, Rus
      - Y. EsAy pid .. races ?!
      - Yes, of goats!

      And that's all, and normally further, they showed me the way, explained where it is better to drive, and where it is better not to meddle))

      And so, Jews do not like Arabs, they do not go to Palestine at all, they are not there. And the Arabs, well, the Arabs should take it from them: they live according to the commandment: "rob your neighbor as your enemy", these are the Arabs.

      Everything is normal there, life is in full swing
  9. ImPerts
    ImPerts 15 May 2014 10: 21
    +4
    ten modified Czechoslovak Messerschmitts - Avia S-199 - at a price of $ 180000 per plane. For comparison, the Americans sold fighters for $ 15000, and bombers for $ 30000 per plane. The Palestinian Air Service purchased from different countries medium-sized C-46 Commando transport aircraft for $ 5000, C-69 Constellation four-engine transport aircraft for $ 15000 apiece, and B-17 heavy bombers for $ 20000.

    I will break in parts:
    Czechoslovak Messerschmitts - Avia S-199 - at a price of $ 180000 per plane
    .
    Next:
    Americans sold fighters for $ 15000, and bombers for $ 30000 for the plane.
    .
    Then:
    B-17 heavy bombers for $ 20000
    .
    And the Jews bought it?
    There is no justice on earth ...
    Reached the damned S ...
  10. The comment was deleted.
  11. Kar Karych
    Kar Karych 15 May 2014 10: 35
    +5
    Professor and apart from "Wikipedia" there is nothing?
    1. igor67
      igor67 15 May 2014 11: 01
      21
      May Day in Israel. 48 years old, to argue it was necessary to live in those days, he met with the old kibbutznik communists, they sang both the International and Katyusha, though everyone had already gone to another world, my neighbor is a Jew from Romania, he remembers when Stalin died, everyone cried and his parents, Stalin is a very ambiguous figure, what did he do for Israel to vote in the UN to annoy England, why didn’t he let out Soviet Jews? After all, almost at the beginning it was still a social state in its structure, kibbutz cooperatives,
      1. wax
        wax 15 May 2014 12: 29
        0
        Yeah. For some reason, not Truman. Mimicry really helps in the struggle for survival under the sun.
      2. their
        their 15 May 2014 21: 03
        +2
        Stalin wanted to save Soviet Jews from Zionism and imperialism since he was a communist. Stalin fought primarily with Zionism, and was an ardent anti-Zionist. Creating Israel, he thought that he would be a bastion of socialism and justice in the Middle East, but he was simply thrown, and then killed.
    2. Professor
      16 May 2014 15: 34
      -1
      Quote: Kar Karych
      Professor and apart from "Wikipedia" there is nothing?

      You and the wiki are too much. Read Murzilka. tongue
  12. gandalf
    gandalf 15 May 2014 12: 15
    13
    Of the 33 votes "For", 5 were under the influence of the USSR, including the USSR itself

    You grossly underestimate the influence of the USSR in the world at that time. I would even say "very strong".

    The phrase "Stalin created Israel" is incorrect. Stalin could not issue a decree to prohibit or permit the creation of Israel.
    Therefore, posing the question like that is wrong. In the end, you refute what was not. And under this "sauce" present the picture in such a way that Stalin did not take part in the creation of Israel. Which is also wrong.

    Without the influence of Stalin, the creation of Israel would have been impossible at that time, it is indisputable.
    Later, after Stalin - maybe, but longer and harder.

    Favorite feature of liberals is to turn events / words to half-truths, and then prove that this did not happen / was.

    Fresh examples:
    Putin sent troops to the Crimea.
    Putin did not send troops into the Crimea. The troops were already there.

    Fedorov called Tsoi an agent of the CIA.
    Fedorov had reason to suppose the influence of CIA agents on his work, possibly in the dark.

    Feel the difference?
    Being in the garden and fertilizing in the garden - these are, as they say in Odessa, two big differences.

    "Professor", are you a liberal?
  13. Turkestan
    Turkestan 15 May 2014 12: 55
    +3
    And where does Stalin?
    Well, if not for Stalin, the Jewish state in Palestine might not have appeared at all. This is indeed so. Because no other state wanted a Jewish state in Palestine. Great Britain was strongly opposed. Great Britain came out of the war almost destroyed, and she was forced to abandon the mandate for Palestine - she simply could not do it, she was in a terrible economic catastrophe.
    France as a great power did not exist at that time, the United States was formally at the level of words, there were “for” the creation of a Jewish state, for the partition of Palestine and the creation of two states there - let's say more precisely - the state of Palestinian Arabs and the state of Palestinian Jews. But only formally. Because the key figures of the American government, the Secretary of State, that is, the Minister of Foreign Affairs, Marshall, George Marshall, the author of the Marshall Plan, and Minister of War Forrestal were categorically opposed. Marshall told President Truman that if he insisted on partitioning Palestine and creating a Jewish state there, he would resign.
    1. Professor
      16 May 2014 15: 36
      -1
      When copy-paste other people's words, then indicate the source.
  14. Turkestan
    Turkestan 15 May 2014 12: 58
    +6
    After the state of Israel was created, almost to the newspaper Pravda letters were sent from people who wanted to go and, as they say, in word and deed to help this state. The Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee, indeed, was proposed by war veterans. Indeed, many Jews returned from the front in orders, with ranks. And they were ready to fight for this cause.
    But Stalin did not release anyone from the Soviet Union. But he allowed - and it was a big deal - to go there to the Polish Jews, who made up the backbone of the Polish army, the one that fought along with the Red Army. I apologize, but in the Polish army, which was forming on the territory of the Soviet Union, there were a huge number of Jews, Polish Jews. Here, Stalin allowed them to go.
    In addition, he allowed to give weapons. The captured weapons, primarily from Czechoslovakia, were sent there to Palestine in violation of the UN embargo. Stalin violated the embargo. The United States has succeeded in imposing an arms embargo on the region. England supplied the Arab countries, and no one was going to help Israel, the Jewish settlers. Except for Stalin. German weapons were sent through Czechoslovakia. The planes of private airlines flew, with Americans, pilots of World War II. They secretly took off, secretly landed in what is now Lebanon, unloaded weapons and flew away.
    These stories of these pilots (I read them) cannot be read without tears. Because they wrote: “We knew that if we miss and sit in the wrong place, they will just kill us all. But we knew that there we were waiting for these people who would die without weapons. ” And they flew. Overloaded planes, they landed and sent weapons there.
    1. Kus Imak
      Kus Imak 16 May 2014 10: 23
      0
      Thank you for the message. All right.
  15. Turkestan
    Turkestan 15 May 2014 13: 00
    +5
    Units were trained in Czechoslovakia. A team named after Clement Gottwald was trained there, somewhere there were signalmen, somewhere pilots, somewhere else something. And they were thrown there. And if ... This Golda Meir said, not very fond of the Soviet Union and Stalin: "And if not for weapons, not military support for the Soviet Union, Israel could not have survived the first war."
    1. RoTTor
      RoTTor 16 May 2014 00: 59
      -2
      Golda Meir is a native of Kiev, who loved her real historical homeland - Russia and the Russian city of Kiev.
    2. RoTTor
      RoTTor 16 May 2014 00: 59
      0
      Golda Meir is a native of Kiev, who loved her real historical homeland - Russia and the Russian city of Kiev.
  16. Turkestan
    Turkestan 15 May 2014 13: 01
    +7
    The importance of JV Stalin's personal participation in the creation of Israel was appreciated by indigenous Palestinian Jews and the first settlers, as evidenced by the fact that many Israelis hung portraits of the "leader of the peoples" on the wall in their homes, and in some houses they are still hanging. In no country has Stalin's personality cult held on for so long, with the exception, perhaps, only. It is known that Yitzhak Sade, chief of the General Staff of the "Haganah" in 1945-1947, on the basis of which a regular army was created after the proclamation of the State of Israel in 1948, kept a portrait of Stalin in his field tent.
    1. Professor
      16 May 2014 15: 38
      0
      Quote: Turkestan
      and in separate houses they hang to the present.

      Can I see a photograph of this medical miracle? Even the kibuchniks threw out portraits of the "father of peoples" after the 20th party congress.
      1. Kassandra
        Kassandra 16 May 2014 18: 06
        0
        until 1967 there was a bust in every school
        1. Professor
          16 May 2014 18: 31
          0
          Quote: Kassandra
          until 1967 there was a bust in every school

          ... children don’t toss bags.
          1. Kassandra
            Kassandra 17 May 2014 10: 01
            0
            so don’t get it.
  17. Turkestan
    Turkestan 15 May 2014 13: 03
    +7
    Stalin's personal role] in the creation of the independent state of Israel is described in detail in the work of the French historian Laurent Rucker, based on the mass of primary sources with which he had the opportunity to get acquainted in the Russian archives ('Surprise of Moscow: Soviet-Israeli alliance 1947-1949. '("Moscow's surprise: The Soviet-Israeli Alliance of 1947-1949"), published as a scientific report by the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars).
    In addition to Ruker, the theme of the role of Stalin personally and Soviet diplomacy as a whole in the process of preparing the vote according to the decision of the UN General Assembly on the independence of the Jewish state, recognition of the young state and political and military assistance to the Israelis in the difficult days of the first days and months of Arab aggression was reflected in the works Other historians and publicists of Russia, the USA, Israel, Great Britain: Shlomo Groman, Yuri Reichel, John Loftus, Mark Aarons, Zakhar Gelman, Anatoly Bershtein, Julia Kosharovsky, Artem Krechetn Ikov, Sigismund Mironin, Valery Kadzhay, Alexander Lokshin, Leonid Mlechin, Rami Hassan, Alexander Fateev, Dan Shapira, Alexander Libin, Zhores Medvedev, Khariton Berman, Vilen Lulechnik.
    1. Silhouette
      Silhouette 15 May 2014 13: 52
      +4
      Stalin is one of the founding fathers of Israel. In a historical sense, of course. Only young arrogant ignoramuses can deny this with their very superficial opuses "for a round date".
      Of course, 66 is not 666, but still ....
  18. 225chay
    225chay 15 May 2014 14: 13
    0
    Quote: 225chay
    Quote: smile
    By the way, remember, when Britain, France, together with Israel tried to gouge Egypt, and we shuganul them, threatening to put them in tinsel,

    ))))))))) Pitbull shuganul Britain and with Storage ...)) You are healthy gendarme to shug these armies, you must first remove the force from yourself
    You graduated from EastFilfak rather weakly
  19. Roman 1977
    Roman 1977 15 May 2014 14: 19
    +4
    Oleg, as always beautiful, Deserved plus! Nevertheless, back to our sheep ...
    Firstly, in addition to Czech copies of the Messerschmites -S.199, which in Czechoslovakia itself until the first turbojet MiG-50 entered service with the Czechoslovak Air Force in the mid-15s, it was considered a fully-fledged first-line fighter.

    S-199 Esc.101 Israeli Air Force
    Czechoslovakia has also supplied Israel with 61 Spitfire IX fighters. During World War II, Czechoslovak pilots fought with the British Air Force. After the end of the war, the Spitfires they fought were donated to Czechoslovakia. The Czechs sold these planes to Israel. The Spitfires weren't long enough to fly to Israel. Then aid was provided by Yugoslavia, which also fell under the rule of the communists at that time. She provided an airfield in Podgorica for refueling. On September 24, 1948, the first fighters flew to the Middle East. Subsequently, in the early 50s, the Israelis repaired the Spitfires left over from Czech supplies and pushed them safely and profitably to Burma.

    Spitfire IX Israeli Air Force delivered from Czechoslovakia
    but in addition to Israel from Czechoslovakia were postal:
    34 P-500 rifles (Czech version of the famous German Mauser 18K "
    5 515 machine guns MG 34
    10,000 Bayonet vz.24
    900 easel machine guns vz. Xnumx
    500 pistols vz. Xnumx
    12 submachine guns ZK-383
    10 self-loading rifles ZK 420
    500 light machine guns vz. Xnumx
    unknown number of captured German MP-40

    Jan Skramoušský: Zbraně pro Izrael, Střelecký Magazín 11 / 2005
    1. Roman 1977
      Roman 1977 15 May 2014 14: 35
      +4
      Ammunition:
      91 500 000 7,92 × 57 mm Mauser rifle cartridges


      15 000 000 9 mm Parabellum rounds

      375 000 13-mm cartridges for heavy machine guns MG 131
      150 000 20-mm shells MG 151
      375 000 7,65-mm cartridges for pistols vz. Xnumx
      In addition, pilots and technical personnel were trained in Czechoslovakia. In Prague, military specialists were trained for the future Israel Defense Forces (Gottwald Brigade), while tankers and paratroopers were trained in Ceske Budejovice. One and a half thousand foot soldiers of the Israel Defense Forces were trained in Olomouc, two thousand more in Mikulov. They formed the part that was originally called the Gottwald Brigade in honor of the leader of the Czechoslovak Communists and the head of the country. The brigade was transferred to Palestine through Yugoslavia. Medical personnel were trained in Wielka Strebn, radio operators and telegraph operators in Liberec, electricians in Pardubice. At the “request” of Stalin, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, Romania and Bulgaria refused to supply weapons to the Arabs, which they did immediately after the end of the war for purely commercial reasons.
      As the first Prime Minister Ben-Gurion said in an interview with Israeli television reporters:
      "If now I accept you in the Jewish state, then we owe this much more to the Soviet Union than to the United States, because during our war of independence, when we were surrounded by the Arab armies, we did not get a single gun from the United States."

      In 1973, Golda Meir wrote:
      “No matter how radically the Soviet attitude towards us has changed over the next twenty-five years, I cannot forget the picture that seemed to me then. Who knows, we would have survived if not for the weapons and ammunition that we could purchase in Czechoslovakia? ”
      1. Professor
        16 May 2014 15: 47
        +1
        Quote: Novel 1977
        At the “request” of Stalin, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, Romania and Bulgaria refused to supply weapons to the Arabs, which they did immediately after the end of the war for purely commercial reasons.

        Another myth. The Israelis then seized this "not delivered" weapon as trophies.

        Quote: Novel 1977
        As the first Prime Minister Ben-Gurion said in an interview with Israeli television reporters:

        But can I refer to the source?
    2. Professor
      16 May 2014 15: 43
      0
      Quote: Novel 1977
      Firstly, in addition to Czech copies of the Messerschmites -S.199, which in Czechoslovakia itself until the first turbojet MiG-50 entered service with the Czechoslovak Air Force in the mid-15s, it was considered a fully-fledged first-line fighter.

      The original is yes, but a Czech fake with a weak overstepped dvigl. What does it cost only a machine gun that is not synchronized with the screw when it was first used, that demolished the screw and killed the Israeli pilot.

      but in addition to Israel from Czechoslovakia were postal:

      I do not deny, but this is a drop in the ocean. See how much was purchased in other countries and how much you made yourself.

      Spitfire IX Israeli Air Force delivered from Czechoslovakia

      In your photo, a restored British speedfire thrown like scrap metal. There were also restored downed Egyptian speedfiers:
  20. Kar Karych
    Kar Karych 15 May 2014 15: 26
    +4
    Sorry professor, but the arguments of Turkestan and Roman 1977 are more plausible, to deny Stalin’s participation in the creation of the state of Israel is in my opinion stupid. Judging by the information that you provided, before the end of World War II, the Israelis tried to simply take root in this territory.
    1. their
      their 15 May 2014 21: 17
      +3
      The fact that the professor dashed off is the usual propaganda of the Israeli half-truth, which is taught in schools at the lessons of history and civil law.

      The reality, of course, is different and some adequate Israelis know the real history of their country, where the USSR and Stalin played a huge role. After the death of Stalin, they began to rewrite history, and crap on him with the filing of the Americans.

      And this, of course, will come back to haunt them, because Russia, the successor of the USSR, will over time now oust America's positions in the Middle East. Therefore, they are afraid and "dispel myths" at the behest of the Americans.
  21. shalomnet
    shalomnet 15 May 2014 17: 52
    -1
    The article lacks references to the organizations "Lehi" and "Etzel" ... which is quite alarming. Since it was they who were actively involved in military activities against the British occupiers, they tried not to shine in front of the Palmach representatives who handed them over to the British authorities. The most famous such agent was Tedi Kolek, the former mayor of Yerushalayim. There is a lack of mention of Yitzhak Rabin, who shot the ship Altalena from artillery on the orders of Ben Gurion.
    The story is forgotten that the Betar command is a solid communist commissar.
    In general, the question remained unanswered, given the fact that the Zionist communists handed over the Zionist nationalists and liberals to the special services of England. Perhaps Comrade Stalin deliberately carefully tried to stay away from them, and he intentionally agreed to the creation of a "Jewish state" so that the Zionists would distance themselves from the communist party of "proletarians of all countries." It is worth noting that at the UN vote on the creation of two states on the territory of "Palestine", it was about - Democratic states. Was Stalin a Democrat?
  22. The comment was deleted.
  23. ruslan207
    ruslan207 15 May 2014 19: 45
    +2
    Myth 1: If it were not for Stalin, then in 1947 the partition plan would not have been approved and an independent state of Israel would not have been created. Of course, Israel would not have been created without Stalin. On the orders of Stalin, planes were transferred from Israel to Czechoslovakia.
  24. Kar Karych
    Kar Karych 15 May 2014 21: 02
    +1
    velikoros-xnumx
    I do not greatly regret the representatives of the chosen people, but here I fundamentally disagree with a statement that can be true only in the first years of the existence of Israel. The vitality of Israel is proved by the fact of its existence for more than 65 years, despite the hostile environment, and the comparison with Ukraine is at least incorrect, rather even delusional.

    And no one argues, but the fact remains that if at first there was no help from outside, including the USSR, where this country would then be. I think she wouldn’t exist then.
  25. shalomnet
    shalomnet 15 May 2014 21: 10
    +1
    Help for money is not help, but cooperation.
  26. their
    their 15 May 2014 21: 18
    +2
    The fact that the professor dashed off is the usual propaganda of the Israeli half-truth, which is taught in schools at the lessons of history and civil law.

    The reality, of course, is different and some adequate Israelis know the real history of their country, where the USSR and Stalin played a huge role. After the death of Stalin, they began to rewrite history, and crap on him with the filing of the Americans.

    And this, of course, will come back to haunt them, because Russia, the successor of the USSR, will over time now oust America's positions in the Middle East. Therefore, they are afraid and "dispel myths" at the behest of the Americans.
  27. Anatoly
    Anatoly 15 May 2014 23: 48
    +2
    In the Sali steppes, a new Israel did not appear.

    After the revolutionary territorial experiments were sometimes completely exotic.
    In 1924, they formed the Special Committee on Land Planning of Working Jews (KomZET). His task was to endow the land with representatives of the “eternally persecuted” people. The committee selected the Salsky district for this purpose. According to the plan, 100 thousand Jews were supposed to live here, in the future the territory could become the basis for the first Jewish republic in the world. Employees of the central office of OZET made a detailed and extensive order for agricultural equipment for the Salsky District. The central board of OZET issued a petition to the People’s Commissariat of the USSR and the People’s Commissariat of the RSFSR to accept the costs of land management in the Salsky District in the amount of 70 rubles [000]. But local residents, among whom there were many Cossacks, did not express a desire to live in the new republic. Yes, and did not attract former merchants, money-lenders, tailers, pharmacists, tailors - the prospect of becoming farmers. In the Sali steppes, a new Israel did not appear.
    [1] Shpagin S.A. Activities of the Society for the Land Organization of Working Jews (OZET) in 1924-1937
    // Problems of history. Rostov n / a, 1994.S. 46.
    ***
    Salsky district - because it was the most sparsely populated district in which there was a lot of free land in the 20s. Therefore, the Jews were offered it. They did not agree. They took a course on the creation of the Crimean Jewish Republic. The fact is that from 1815 to 1917 the Jewish population of Russia grew from 800 thousand to 6 million. And somewhere they had to be put.
    In the first years after the revolution, at least 1 million Jews left the towns, in 1923 almost 50% of the entire Jewish population of Ukraine lived in large cities. But they no longer fit into the cities, therefore, in 1929, 697 thousand hectares of land were allocated for Jewish colonization in the Crimea. Again, they did not go there, for the lands of Tavria were surrendered — not Yalta at all.
    In 1944, the United States raised the question of creating a Jewish republic in Crimea (Crimean California). They began to arrange in the Crimea tens of thousands of Jews from Kiev.
    Polina Zhemchuzhina (Perelman), wife of Molotov - deputy. People's Commissar of Light Industry and Perfumes was a personal friend of Golda Meir. In 1948, upon the arrival of Golda Meir in Moscow, 50 thousand Jews of the USSR gathered. They raised the question of the formation of KEP. The letter of the USSR Government to the US Government on the creation of the Crimean Jewish Republic is still not declassified.
    The case ended with the fact that Molotov's wife was sent to prison in conclusion.
    AER was created in Birobidzhan (eye surgery). The pressure for autonomy in Russia has been increasing. Stalin led the movement towards Palestine. He insisted in the Security Council on authorizing the creation of Israel.
    The final touch to the non-return of the formation of this republic was put in 1954 by Khrushchev, who was forced to surrender Crimea to Ukraine. Then they will create a myth about Khrushchev's stupidity.
    V.A. Dronov
    November 12.05.2014, XNUMX
    ... Why Sal's steppes? Nearby was the "Historical Homeland" Sarkel - Itil (Atel). Stalin knew history well. By the way - the information is still not freely available.
  28. RoTTor
    RoTTor 16 May 2014 00: 54
    0
    Without Stalin and the USSR in the post-war history in the world, NOTHING COULD BE DONE.
    The fathers of the state of Israel, despite all the difficulties in our relations, never forgot that without the USSR, Israel would not have become a state, would not have survived the first Arab-Israeli war. Who forgets and perverts these are our enemies.
    The post-war structure of the world and Europe, laid down by Stalin, lasted almost half a century. There has never been such a thing in world history.
    Because it was reasonably invented.
    With Israel, more precisely, with the loss of influence on it and with a reorientation to the Arab world, of course, the slip came out.
    Early, Stalin died, otherwise everything would have been in our world.
    1. stroporez
      stroporez 16 May 2014 08: 05
      +1
      Quote: RoTTor
      Early Stalin died
      ---- + 100500
  29. dzau
    dzau 16 May 2014 18: 10
    +1
    In the decisive vote of the UN General Assembly, 33 countries supported the resolution on the creation of independent Arab and Jewish states; 13 countries voted against this project, and the number of abstentions decreased to 10. Five countries of the Soviet bloc provided the necessary two-thirds majority. If these countries supported the Arab position, the ratio of pros and cons would be 28 to 18. This would not provide a two-thirds majority, and therefore the creation of Israel would not receive a UN mandate.

    That's it.

    Although not, not all:
    According to Professor M. Mints, if it were not for the comprehensive assistance from the Soviet Union — political, military, and help in determining the borders in 1948, the Jews would not have their own state, which Dr. Hariton Berman also agreed in his work.

    According to the Arab historian Rami Hassan, as well as other researchers, if not for the will of the USSR, the State of Israel in May 1948 would most likely not have appeared on the political map of the world.

    On February 5, 1948, the future Israeli Foreign Minister Moshe Sharet in a conversation, Andrei Gromyko, asked for help with weapons. By then, Stalin had already given orders to arm the Palestinian Jews so that they could create their own state. By the decision of Stalin, [18] Israel began to receive artillery and mortars, German Messerschmitt fighters through Czechoslovakia. It was mainly a German trophy weapon. The flow of weapons was so significant that the United States was forced to protest. The CIA offered to shoot down aircraft (...)

    On May 29, 1948, the Israelis received and assembled the first four Messerschmitt 109 fighters. On this day, the Egyptian units that had tanks were already several tens of kilometers from Tel Aviv. If the Egyptians captured Tel Aviv, the existence of Israel would be called into question. Enough troops to defend the city, at the time there were no Palestinian Jews at the disposal. All that was sent to battle, including these four aircraft. Only one returned to the base. However, when they saw Israeli aviation, the Egyptians became frightened and stopped further movement.

    "You cannot cross out the past because the present does not resemble it, and the fact remains: despite the fact that the Soviet Union subsequently turned so violently against us, the Soviet recognition of Israel on May 18 was of great importance to us." (Golda Meir, memoir)

    The paramount importance of arms supplies was appreciated, first of all, by the Prime Minister of Israel Ben-Gurion.

    According to Yitzhak Shamir, during the first Arab-Israeli war, the Soviet Union sent a group of Soviet Jewish officers, participants in the Second World War, who were directly involved in the hostilities.

    There is an opinion that the Israeli special forces from scratch was created at the personal direction of Stalin. A number of authors provide evidence that Captain Halperin (entered the history of Israel under the name Iser Harel) became the founder and first head of intelligence Mossad, a Smersha officer Livanov (Nehimiya Levanon) founded and led the foreign intelligence of Nativa Bar, captain Nikolsky, Zaitsev and Malevany dedicated themselves to the work of the special forces of the Tsakhal.

    For each item in the original text, footnotes to the source are available. Original text:
    “Stalin and the Jewish Problem: A New Analysis” Zhores Medvedev
    http://lizard.jinr.ru/~tina/world/history/hist059.html
    1. Professor
      16 May 2014 18: 32
      -2
      Quote: dzau
      According to Yitzhak Shamir, during the first Arab-Israeli war, the Soviet Union sent a group of Soviet Jewish officers, participants in the Second World War, who were directly involved in the hostilities.

      blah blah blah...
      FULL NAME?
      1. dzau
        dzau 16 May 2014 18: 42
        +2
        Quote: Professor
        blah blah blah...
        FULL NAME?

        So this is your prime minister. Ask him.
        Or are you interested in a source of information?

        - During the war of independence, a group of Soviet Jewish officers, veterans of the Great Patriotic War, who came under the guise of volunteers, fought on the Israeli side. But, they say, they were sent by the Soviet government and after the deterioration of relations, almost everyone left Israel in an organized manner. What do you know about this?
        - I don't know the details: I came to the Mossad much later. But their help came in handy for Israel. We fought then with the regular armies of several states, practically without having our own regular officers. And the Soviet military who arrived had experience of military operations and, moreover, were specialists in scarce military specialties - tankmen, artillerymen. In Israel, they were worn on their hands.

        http://www.kommersant.ru/doc/198203
        "Interview with Yitzhak Shamir"
        1. Professor
          16 May 2014 21: 42
          +1
          Quote: dzau
          Details are unknown to me:

          Details are unknown, name, too, no one saw them, neither in the museum, archive, memoir information about them passes, but the urban legend claims ...
          I can throw you links to what interviews are given by former Prime Minister Olmert. This sings now, I want to cry. laughing
          1. Turkir
            Turkir 18 May 2014 16: 09
            0
            Conclusion - Yitzhak Shamir is a liar.
            1. Professor
              18 May 2014 16: 24
              0
              Quote: Turkir
              Yitzhak Shamir a liar

              Either the old man forgot or the correspondent did not understand / correctly translate / distort.
      2. dzau
        dzau 16 May 2014 18: 57
        0
        From this we can conclude, by the way, that this:

        Quote: Professor
        Myth 4. The Jewish front-line soldiers, as a rule, the Communists, were sent to Palestine as a business trip - essentially the same way as "volunteers" from the USSR to Spain went to 15 years before.
        Stalin did not intend to let anyone go out of the country, “where a person breathes so freely,” although the idea to form a division of front-line Jewish Jews to be sent to Palestine was made by General Dragoon. There were no Soviet volunteers in the army, in the air, or in the Israeli navy. Volunteers from other countries (primarily from the United States, South Africa and the United Kingdom) were, but not from the USSR.

        Lying.

        Well, either the 83-year-old former prime minister of Israel lied.
        1. Professor
          16 May 2014 21: 48
          0
          Quote: dzau
          lie

          docks to the studio. Only evidence with links to sources, not a left interview in which "details are not known."

          Quote: dzau
          Well, either the 83-year-old former prime minister of Israel lied.

          Well, you, how can a former prime minister lie? lol He just doesn't remember the "details".
          1. dzau
            dzau 17 May 2014 02: 47
            +1
            It's funny, but for some reason, an 83-year-old with a decent track record is more credible than random commentators on the net.
            1. Professor
              17 May 2014 08: 22
              0
              Quote: dzau
              It's funny, but for some reason, an 83-year-old with a decent track record is more credible than random commentators on the net.

              The history of Israeli wars is taken apart to a bolt, well, they love their army here. Do not tell me where, in the composition of which units these fighters fought. Did they have names and titles?
          2. dzau
            dzau 17 May 2014 03: 20
            +1
            The former Prime Minister of Israel, it turns out, we have a gap, Kommersant too, but the anonymous Internet commentator knows how it really was.

            Before demanding evidence and sources (which, incidentally, were provided to you, you are simply inattentive: here
            http://lizard.jinr.ru/~tina/world/history/hist059.html
            at the end of the page there are sources, in considerable quantity), it is not bad for the author of the abstract "about myths" to provide links to sources.

            Otherwise, the article could assert with the same success: "Myth number one: the Chukchi are indigenous Martians. We gave you a short history of the Chukchi with pictures of their kayaks. Now we can declare: a blatant lie. The Chukchi flew from Jupiter."

            Is the logic understandable, or is it to introduce you to the basics of information-bibliographic culture?

            An introduction to linguistics, I remember, we have already passed.
            1. Professor
              17 May 2014 08: 20
              -1
              Quote: dzau
              Before demanding evidence and sources (which, incidentally, were provided to you, you are simply inattentive: here
              http://lizard.jinr.ru/~tina/world/history/hist059.html
              at the end of the page there are sources, in considerable quantity), it is not bad for the author of the abstract "about myths" to provide links to sources.


              Give such links to the pioneers. Here's an example from there: "By decision of Stalin, [18] Israel began to receive artillery and mortars through Czechoslovakia,"
              Artillery? Yeah. Then everything is clear. We’ll talk about submarines soon.

              Where exactly about "Soviet military advisers? Please do not send it to Google."
              1. Kassandra
                Kassandra 17 May 2014 10: 03
                0
                Does Google already visit you?
              2. dzau
                dzau 17 May 2014 15: 31
                0
                The former head of his own country is not your authority, a publication with an audience greater than the population of Israel, too. Also, Google did not please something.

                On January XNUMX, forty-eight, Epstein complained in New York to Tsarapkin that the decision of the United States to impose an embargo on the import of military materials into Palestine was a blow to the Jews. Arabs buy weapons from England through Iraq and Transjordan. But Palestinian Jews have no one to buy weapons from.

                http://www.e-reading.ws/chapter.php/39547/13/Mlechin_-_Zachem_Stalin_sozdal_Izra
                il% 27_.html
                Leonid Mlechin “Why did Stalin create Israel?”

                A few years ago I talked with Shlomo Gazit [b. Israeli military intelligence chief - AMAN] on Soviet-Israeli relations at the dawn of the formation of the State of Israel. He then spoke interestingly about the deliveries of Soviet weapons that saved the young Jewish state, which was subjected to aggression by neighboring Arab countries, about Soviet volunteers - Jewish officers who fought in the Israel Defense Forces and contributed to the creation of artillery and tank forces

                Michael dorfman
                (The Secrets of Israeli Intelligence by Michael Dorfman)
                http://www.sem40.ru/warandpeace/military/mossad/8837/

                When it comes to the USSR, the collective Israeli memory tries to exclude even indisputable facts, such as the decisive diplomatic and military support provided by the USSR to Israel during the most difficult times of the War of Independence and even the contribution of Soviet volunteers and military advisers to the victory in that war. But in the armed forces of the newly created Jewish state as part of the MAHAL corps (the abbreviation Mitnadvey huts laarets are foreign volunteers in Hebrew), several hundred “volunteers” from the USSR fought, mainly Jewish officers who were specially demobilized for this from the Soviet Army. They made a decisive contribution to the creation of Israeli artillery and armored forces. The official site of the Mahal, created with the assistance of the Israeli Ministry of Defense, talks a lot about Indian and British volunteer pilots, about American Jewish veterans who fought in the War of Independence. And only among other nationalities, in a word, Soviet volunteers are mentioned. I was especially interested in this issue in open publications of the Ministry of Defense. Even the reluctant acknowledgment of the inconvenient fact that the Israeli Navy was created in Italy with the personal support of Mussolini in 1930 is easier to obtain than materials about volunteers from the USSR. The memory of them remained in personal memories and fragmentary mentions of old Telavivian newspapers.

                Michael Dorfman, "The Last Battle of the Veterans"
                http://forum-msk.org/material/fpolitic/13899.html
                Sveta Roberman, “Memory in Emigration: Soldiers of the Red Army in Israel,” Ed. Magnes University of Jerusalem

                **
                Sources, even with a careless cursory search, as you can see, are more than enough. The main problem is not to find them, but that the array found, even with small quotes, will not fit here.

                You argue with an objective historical fact: people of Jewish nationality who fought on the eastern front then participated in a more than significant number in the Israeli war of independence. There is too much evidence for this to be denied to an intelligent person.

                And do not play around. Your own sources with "refutations" - where, dear?
                1. Professor
                  17 May 2014 16: 24
                  +1
                  Quote: dzau
                  Sources, even with a careless cursory search, as you can see, are more than enough. The main problem is not to find them, but that the array found, even with small quotes, will not fit here.

                  These stories have been retold for many years, and when you start to be interested in the details, they all shrug their shoulders. I repeat, Israel loves its army and studies history thoroughly. For example, a book on the air bridge with Czechoslovakia and there are many such books. However, there is no information about the mysterious Jewish warriors whom Stalin sent to fight in Palestine ...Gesher_Aviri.pdf
                  Is this secret even worse than Israeli nuclear weapons? laughing

                  Quote: dzau
                  And do not play around. Your own sources with "refutations" - where, dear?

                  Where sources deny participation in the battles of Martians. Find those? wassat

                  Quote: dzau
                  You argue with an objective historical fact: people of Jewish nationality who fought on the eastern front then participated in a more than significant number in the Israeli war of independence.

                  It was, but there were no Soviet front-line soldiers whom Stalin sent. There were former partisans who made it to Palestine themselves, Poles and others who fled to Palestine, but there were no "Jewish front-line soldiers, as a rule, communists sent to Palestine as a business trip." It's stories. Nobody can answer the elementary question about the name, where, how and when they fought, and this is in a country where they know by name all the dead and missing ..

                  PS
                  Are you silent about artillery? wink
                  1. dzau
                    dzau 17 May 2014 16: 51
                    0
                    Error (404) at your link. And kindly indicate the name and author of the source first.

                    About the Martians - this is to you, my friend. In which the entire "article", with the exception of copy-paste, is an abstract of three paragraphs, without a single reference to the original sources.

                    **
                    Oh how. That is, veterans of the eastern front in the war for independence were still there. It remains to be clarified: it turns out that there was a mass desertion from yesterday's victorious army, which occupied half of Europe, had strict discipline and the highest morale?

                    Moreover, deserters dragged along small arms, tons of ammunition, tanks and planes.

                    And all this without the knowledge of the Soviet government, which rattled yesterday from the UN stands in support of Israel, and here, you see, it has blown itself away and has refused to help this Israel itself. Illogical, dear.

                    About the artillery source indicated, you are again inattentive. Sources for everything are indicated: if you were not taught the skills of working with bibliography in your youth, this is your misfortune, my dear friend, and not someone else's plot.
                    1. Professor
                      17 May 2014 20: 47
                      +1
                      Quote: dzau
                      Error (404) at your link. And please be the name and author of the source first indicate

                      Everything works, press harder.
                      Maj. Avi cohen
                      INDEPENDENCE: A BRIDGE IN THE SKY
                      Air transport command
                      1949-1947
                      Israel Defense Forces
                      The air force
                      Air force history branch

                      Quote: dzau
                      Oh how. That is, veterans of the eastern front in the war for independence were still there.

                      Of course there were. Poles, Yugoslavs and a bunch of Eastern Europeans served in the Red Army, and some Jews, after captivity, demobilization, etc., repatriated to Palestine and fought for the independence of Israel. There was even a "Russian" company in the tank forces, but the trouble is, this has nothing to do with Stalin. My neighbor comes from near Chernivtsi, escaped from captivity and reached Turkey. there, using forged documents, he moved to Israel and fought for its independence.
                      Other story. I had to intersect in working with an American with an absolutely Russian name and surname, say Vladimir Ivanov. He practically didn’t speak Russian, but his story is interesting. His father, a purely Russian soldier of the Red Army, fell in love with his mother, a purebred German woman, during the war. Neither in the USSR nor in Germany did they shine, and they fled to Mexico, 20 years later they ended up in the USA. There are thousands of such stories.

                      Quote: dzau
                      Moreover, deserters dragged along small arms, tons of ammunition, tanks and planes.

                      tanks? Stalin and tanks helped? wink What models? Where fought?

                      Quote: dzau
                      About the artillery source indicated, you are again inattentive. Sources for everything are indicated: if you were not taught the skills of working with bibliography in your youth, this is your misfortune, my dear friend, and not someone else's plot.

                      Interested in what models of guns Stalin put to Israel? By the way, I can throw off a very detailed book about the history of Israeli artillery. True in Hebrew.

                      Quote: dzau
                      About the Martians - this is to you, my friend. In which the entire "article", with the exception of copy-paste, is an abstract of three paragraphs, without a single reference to the original sources.

                      I indicate the bibliography in scientific works, and so ask-specify. Copy-paste is my hobby !!!
                      1. dzau
                        dzau 18 May 2014 23: 34
                        0
                        Quote: Professor
                        I indicate the bibliography in scientific works, and so ask-specify. Copy paste is my hobby

                        It turns out that you even have "scientific papers"? Why are you a professor?

                        Are you going to argue all your calculations with pdf files of 600 pages in Hebrew?

                        **
                        "Mass desertion" from the Red Army of the post-war model - from the category of UFOs in the village of Katsapetovka. Years to crawl through the trenches, and at the end of the war to desert in order to keep on fighting, and even massively, abroad, with weapons and ammunition - you would have to write scripts in Hollywood, your talent will be lost.

                        Meanwhile, the tacit presence of the Soviet contingent abroad at that time was a routine matter. That in China, that in Korea, that in Eastern Europe, in Cuba, wherever the help was needed for the "oppressed peoples". With one caveat: it was authorized to send this aid - from Moscow.

                        Only in the kibbutzim of independent Israel, all the soldiers from the Red Army as one - deserters, traitors. The informational position is cleaner than today's Ukrainian media. Was there no famine in the Dead Sea?

                        **
                        I’m sure that you will find everything about the types of weapons delivered in your own book; it cannot be that Hebrew doesn’t find what is needed on 600 pages. Unfortunately, this information is not available on Komi and Swahili.
                      2. Professor
                        19 May 2014 08: 52
                        +1
                        Quote: dzau
                        It turns out that you even have "scientific papers"? Why are you a professor?

                        professor of acidic cabbage, of course. wassat

                        Are you going to argue all your calculations with pdf files of 600 pages in Hebrew?

                        This "pdf-file" of 600 pages is just a small demonstration of how much the events of that time have been studied. But in a strange way, hundreds of Soviet "advisers" did not receive the attention of meticulous Israeli historians. Probably Shabak forbade them. laughing

                        to continue to fight, and even massively, abroad, with weapons and ammunition - you would have to write scripts in Hollywood, your talent will be lost.

                        Don't fantasize. I never wrote about "massively", as well as about the fact that with "weapons". "Mass character" consists in one "Russian" company where it is not clear how many deserters were, but how many others?

                        Meanwhile, the tacit presence of the Soviet contingent abroad at that time was a routine matter. That in China, that in Korea, that in Eastern Europe, in Cuba, wherever the help was needed for the "oppressed peoples". With one caveat: it was authorized to send this aid - from Moscow.

                        Send indirect docs? And where is the name, specifics, not blah blah blah?

                        I’m sure you will find everything about the types of weapons delivered in
                        own book, it cannot be that the 600 pages of Hebrew did not find the right one. Unfortunately, this information is not available on Komi and Swahili.

                        What are you talking about? No information about artillery, military "advisers"? What a pity? Was there a boy? By the way, the details of the Czechoslovak aircraft are very well described, including when they arrived, where they flew and under what number, where they were lost, etc., and only about "personal pensioners, artillery, military" advisers "are silent. lol
                      3. dzau
                        dzau 19 May 2014 19: 09
                        0
                        Quote: Professor
                        This 600 page "pdf" file is just a small demo

                        So do you still have? Yiddish and Arabic, of course? Well, "so no one would guess" (that you have nothing to cover, in fact)?

                        Quote: Professor
                        I have not written anywhere about "massively"

                        Yes, you are not really needed here either. This is completely open information:
                        It is not known for certain how many Soviet troops left for Palestine before and during the War of Independence. According to Israeli sources, 200 thousand Soviet Jews used legal or illegal channels.

                        (All the same "National Defense", archive
                        http://old.nationaldefense.ru/2332/2348/index.shtml?id=7444)


                        200 thousand is not mass?

                        Quote: Professor
                        About the types of weapons delivered

                        Quote: Professor
                        And where is the name, specifics, not blah blah blah?

                        Above you were given specifics from your former prime minister, family members of Israeli officers, etc. .. Someone even gave a piece from an interview with Golda Meir. Below is a link (if there is little cursory quotation) to the entire volume of Sudoplatov’s memoirs, with full name and dates including This array also contains an indication of the types of weapons, even supply routes and a geographical indication of training points, etc. You are not even too lazy to make them in quotes.

                        But you declared them all liars, without even making an attempt to confirm your own words with the primary sources.

                        I repeat, against this array of primary sources and testimonies you put the abstract text in three paragraphs, without a single footnote.

                        Have you even finished your studies to the assistant professor, are you our "professor"?
                      4. Professor
                        19 May 2014 20: 39
                        +1
                        Quote: dzau
                        So do you still have? Yiddish and Arabic, of course? Well, "so no one would guess" (that you have nothing to cover, in fact)?

                        You see, in Israel they write something more in Hebrew (guess why?), But if I want to look for you in Yiddish, I can do it well ... I have a complaint about the content? wink Do not be shy, ask, I will translate from Jewish to you.

                        Quote: dzau
                        According to Israeli sources, 200 thousand Soviet Jews used legal or illegal channels.

                        ... children, women, old people, how many among them were there if 112 thousand soldiers fought for the independence of Israel in all (not only Soviet) EMNIP?

                        Quote: dzau
                        Above you were given specifics from your former prime minister

                        Again blah blah blah. Shamir: “I don't know the details: I came to Mossad much later.” You and I have different ideas about the specifics.

                        Quote: dzau
                        for the entire volume of Sudoplatov’s memoirs, with full name and dates including This array also contains an indication of the types of weapons, even supply routes and a geographical indication of training points, etc. You are not even too lazy to make them in quotes.

                        This is the one that "unloaded" the tanks in the port in Israel. Thank you, don't need such links. I asked you a specific question about the artillery that Stalin allegedly supplied to Israel. Do me a favor, answer. Will it not be difficult for you? Or will you send me to Google?

                        Quote: dzau
                        Have you even finished your studies to the assistant professor, are you our "professor"?

                        Bravo, are you out of arguments and get personal? You be more careful, otherwise the "personal pensioners of Israel" will be offended.

                        Quote: dzau
                        I repeat, against this array of primary sources and testimonies you put the abstract text in three paragraphs, without a single footnote.

                        Name, combat path, units, or will I stop feeding you?
                      5. dzau
                        dzau 20 May 2014 10: 23
                        +2
                        Quote: Professor
                        You see, in Israel, something more is written in Hebrew

                        We do not communicate with you on the Israeli resource.
                        Quote: Professor
                        children, women, old people

                        Of the 200 Soviet citizens who entered the warring newly-created country, only women, children and old people traveled? Oh yes yes.
                        Quote: Professor
                        blah blah blah. Shamir

                        Blah blah of the former head of Israel against the same blah blah of the anonymous Narnia military from the Internet. Whose blah blah is more significant, my dear friend, his or yours?
                        You have not refuted his words by a single source.
                        Quote: Professor
                        This is the one that "unloaded" the tanks in the port in Israel

                        Dear, you obviously did not even give yourself the trouble to familiarize yourself with the source provided for you. Or very much confused in everything.
                        One more time:
                        Publisher: Sudoplatov P.A. Special operations. Lubyanka and the Kremlin 1930-1950.
                        M .: OLMA-PRESS, 1997.
                        http://www.lib.ru/POLITOLOG/SUDOPLATOW/specoperacii.txt

                        This author, as one of the direct participants in the events, describes the moments associated with the Soviet agent structure in Palestine. Name, date, indication of the supply of weapons there.
                        The author’s bias in reporting on events has been repeatedly confirmed by cross-checking with other sources. The second time in a row accusing him of lying (without a single argument), and attributing to him information from another source, you expose yourself to be a clown.
                      6. Professor
                        20 May 2014 10: 50
                        0
                        Quote: dzau
                        We do not communicate with you on the Israeli resource.

                        The resource is registered in Germany, so we will communicate in German or parvda is it just what is written in Russian?

                        Quote: dzau
                        Of the 200 Soviet citizens who entered the warring newly-created country, only women, children and old people traveled? Oh yes yes.

                        You are a great connoisseur, tell us how many women and children there were. Only numbers, not as usual blah blah blah. You can use the website of the Ministry of Absorption. By the way, in 1991 more than 200 thousand Soviet Jews arrived in Israel, which was fired by Saddam, they were given gas masks at the airport. In your opinion, there were no women and children as "a warring country".


                        Quote: dzau
                        Blah blah of the former head of Israel against the same blah blah of the anonymous Narnia military from the Internet. Whose blah blah is more significant, my dear friend, his or yours?
                        You have not refuted his words by a single source

                        You are not my friend. After all, you also did not refute my words by any source that Martians fought in Israel. We will assume that they really fought there. wassat

                        This author, as one of the direct participants in the events, describes the moments associated with the Soviet agent structure in Palestine. Name, date, indication of the supply of weapons there.

                        That's not a problem, your fantasies about artillery allegedly supplied by Stalin are not mentioned there at all, not a word about mortars either, tanks allegedly unloaded in the port of Haifa "and into battle" he also missed. So where are the models of tanks, artillery and mortars? You persistently ignore my question. Such communication with you begins to bore me, since I have not learned anything new for myself.

                        Quote: dzau
                        you make yourself a clown.

                        Let me be a clown, but you assert (by means of copy-paste) about the supply of artillery, mortars and even "unloading tanks in the port of Haifa", but you cannot answer the elementary question about the model of these weapons. I am waiting for an answer otherwise I will not feed anymore - the word "clown".
                      7. dzau
                        dzau 20 May 2014 13: 13
                        +1
                        Quote: Professor
                        The resource is registered in Germany

                        Yeah. Only the domain ru and the communication language is Russian.

                        Quote: Professor
                        tell how many women and children were there

                        It is unlikely that out of the 200 who entered there were so many that the remaining proportion of the male population did not fall under the definition of "mass character."

                        Keep your nonsense about the waves of emigrants from some children-women-old people (in a warring country).

                        Quote: Professor
                        ignore my question

                        The post below is written to your whining about "ignore". You would at least work to read what they write to you:

                        According to the historian Yehuda Slutsky (...) on May 15, 1948, Hagana’s weapons were (...) 10 submachine guns (...), 264 pistols, 5607 rifles, 21 light and 859 machine guns, 1269 two-inch and 182 three-inch mortars, 682 guns of a caliber of 105 millimeters.

                        "Weapons for the Promised Land" Semyon Fedoseev, Vladimir Shcherbakov, "Around the World" No. 5, May 2008

                        So: the quantitative composition is known, sources of supply (Eastern Europe) are known. Attention to the question: what do the models so persistently required by you decide (at least not serial numbers)? Only created Israel - provided itself with hundreds and thousands of barrels (including ammunition)? Or could, under the conditions of a total embargo, import the bulk of the weapons from somewhere else besides Eastern Europe?
                      8. Professor
                        20 May 2014 13: 35
                        +1
                        Quote: dzau
                        The post below was written before your whining about "ignore". You would at least work to read what they write to you:

                        So last time. In your opinion, Stalin supplied artillery to Israel (it was not at all, namely, Stalin). I am very interested in which particular models of guns he put. Serial numbers are not necessary (although it would be interesting. For example, for aircraft, I will give you the serial numbers of the mod), but for the models I will tell you after I tell you where I get each barrel, with links, photos and screenshots of documents.
                        Last try.
                      9. dzau
                        dzau 20 May 2014 13: 53
                        +2
                        Quote: Professor
                        For example, in aviation technology, I will provide you with fashion serial numbers

                        This is from the book that you threw to me, but you didn’t read it yourself, but did I read it? ((Go ahead, maybe make one more laugh.

                        Quote: Professor
                        I will sign where each trunk came from, with links

                        Already agree on availability? Do not be shy! I am always happy when I contribute to the self-education of the opponent.

                        You and about hotchkisses and crommels, spitfires collected from shot down Egyptian ones you can write, Kibbutz davidki and other nonsense, assembled on your knees.

                        That's just all this - a miserable crap on the background of a fact simple and clear as water: it was impossible to organize large-scale, I repeat, systemic deliveries to the belligerent through the blockade.

                        The main deliveries came from Eastern Europe. Including the "blood" of war - spare parts, ammunition. Specialists. Soldier.

                        And these deliveries without the sanction of Moscow in 47-48. were impossible.
              3. dzau
                dzau 20 May 2014 10: 33
                +1
                Quote: Professor
                I asked you a specific question about the artillery that Stalin allegedly supplied to Israel.

                You have already been answered three or four times: equipment, including guns, machine guns and mortars, was delivered in Czech and German (captured) production. Even supply routes and training facilities were indicated.
                If you still intend to claim that tons of ammunition, artillery and aviation (the presence of the items listed in the database is a fact) were painted by a magic wand to the Jews, then you should go to work with Goebbels. Failing to try to downplay aviation supplies: they indicated a couple of Messerschmitts, whereas
                Quote: Kassandra
                Czechoslovakia has also supplied Israel with 61 Spitfire IX fighters. (Jan Skramoušský: Zbraně pro Izrael, Střelecký Magazín 11/2005)

                you decided to try to deny the supply of artillery (oh yes yes, having modern aviation, do not have iron from the First World War era). My dear, the presence of mortars and larger barrels - you even threw off photos of the destroyed residential complexes, after shelling. Indicating what type of weapons they are destroyed. Even which division.
                I repeat the data of Israeli sources: not a single party, except for the countries of the eastern bloc, delivered weapons to Israel en masse during the war. These are testimonies of dignitaries from interviews and memoirs. The question is: did the Jews conjure hundreds of tons of weapons with an aladdin lamp?
                According to the historian Yehuda Slutsky (...) on May 15, 1948, Hagana’s weapons were (...) 10 submachine guns (...), 264 pistols, 5607 rifles, 21 light and 859 machine guns, 1269 two-inch and 182 three-inch mortars, 682 guns of a caliber of 105 millimeters.

                "Weapons for the Promised Land" Semyon Fedoseev, Vladimir Shcherbakov, "Around the World" No. 5, May 2008

                Quote: Professor
                Name, combat path, units, or will I stop feeding you

                Those. run away with your tail tail, as in the previous discussion?

                Name, dates, places have been presented to you several times. Dozens of footnotes have been provided, not by me alone. But you, during the entire period of the discussion, did not give a single argument in support of three paragraphs of your abstract: "blah blah, aid to the USSR is a lie, Israel bravely ground 40 million Arabs on its own." Apart from a 600-page pdf file in Hebrew (and threats to be buried under similar Talmuds), we have not seen a single source from you.

                The question is: who is the "troll" on this resource, I see you often, merging, throw this word?
              4. Professor
                20 May 2014 10: 57
                +1
                Quote: dzau
                You have already been answered three or four times: equipment, including guns, machine guns and mortars, was delivered in Czech and German (captured) production. Even supply routes and training facilities were indicated.

                Indicate the model and continue. Just...
                Until you specify WHICH NAME OF WEAPONS STALIN DELIVERED your pearls and conclusions I will not read because I promised not to feed. I’m hinting that Hagana had artillery, but not from Stalin and Co. Go ahead, seek and luck may smile at you. hi

                Ps
                Greetings from all Israel's personal pensioners.
              5. dzau
                dzau 20 May 2014 13: 36
                +1
                Quote: Professor
                Hagana had artillery, but not from Stalin

                German, Czech, French anti-aircraft and other artillery. Not Soviet models.

                But the trouble is, my dear friend, and the B-17s were not Soviet in Hel Avir. And spitfire. But they were delivered through Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, etc.

                For everything is very simple: em-bar-go was imposed on large-scale deliveries of arms to the warring parties by the west. Do you know such a word? But the eastern side - no.

                Marines also did not run with PPSh and maxims. And with MP and MG. Again: where did these MGs come from? Oh miracle! Czechoslovakia.

                Who trained yesterday's sowers of kibbutzestan to use unfamiliar equipment, repair and fly? Oh miracle! Engineers and technicians of Eastern Europe!

                While the ships and planes trying to break the blockade and establish supplies from other countries were delayed and "grabbed": in such conditions, large-scale supplies, and even the warring army, which devours tons of ammunition and spare parts in tech. days are simply impossible.

                And here is an excerpt from "your" source:
                from атеatec (Czechoslovakia) during its use, 100 sorties were carried out and 350 tons of not very peaceful cargo delivered to Israel

                Zhirokhov M. A., "Wings of Vengeance"

                Your source, I repeat (all your others - "lie").

                So who, on a systematic basis, has provided the lion's share of Israel’s supply in the war for independence?
                And then yulit like a monkey in front of a banana: and you want to get down already from the discussion, and obviously courage is not enough to merge.

                If you admitted the facts, you might be respected for honesty. And so ...
              6. Professor
                20 May 2014 13: 59
                +1
                Quote: dzau
                German, Czech, French anti-aircraft and other artillery. Not Soviet models.

                I asked specifically for the models, but I got it again blah-blah-blah. I understand that this is not on the wiki, but you either have no access to serious sources, or you don’t speak languages ​​(Tsakhal's archive is not available to you). This is no longer important, because I wasted time on you, I did not learn anything new and interesting, therefore I stop feeding you once and for all. I ask you not to disturb me with your flood anymore and say hello to the "personal pensioners of Israel". hi
              7. dzau
                dzau 20 May 2014 14: 08
                +1
                So below you promised yourself to tell everything, right down to the models, where you brought it from and got something about the serial numbers.

                Dare, I'm listening to you carefully. Just afraid to get in the way.

                Honestly: unlike you, I know how and have the courage to admit mistakes at points where my source is unreliable.

                Well, write: the shells for the Eskimo howitzers in the boxes of bananas were supplied by Honduran partisans on the cargo ship "Harakiri Maru" of Japanese airlines, date, page, stamp. Tabular, with serial numbers. I believe in you and I will be glad.
  30. dzau
    dzau 19 May 2014 00: 06
    +1
    Your beloved copy-paste (in Hebrew, Komi and Swahili, I'm sorry, no):
    At the end of 1947, the first shipments of small arms began to arrive in Palestine. But this was clearly not enough. On February 5, a representative of Palestinian Jews, through Andrei Gromyko, earnestly requested an increase in supplies (...)

    Palestinian Jews received arms mainly through Czechoslovakia. (...) they sent captured German and Italian weapons, as well as those produced in Czechoslovakia at the Skoda and ChZ factories. (...) The airfield in Ceske Budejovice was the main transshipment base. Soviet instructors retrained American and British volunteer pilots (...) From Czechoslovakia (via Yugoslavia) (...) dismantled planes were carried, mainly German Messershmit fighters and English Spitfires, as well as artillery and mortars.

    Yugoslavia provided the Jews with not only airspace, but also ports. The first to load the Borea transporter under the Panamanian flag. On May 13, 1948, he delivered guns, shells, machine guns, and about four million rounds of ammunition to Tel Aviv — all hidden under a 450-ton load of onions, starch, and cans of tomato sauce. (...) Following from Yugoslavia, other transport workers arrived with the same “stuffing”.

    In the territory of Czechoslovakia, not only future Israeli pilots were trained. There, in Ceske Budejovice, tankers and paratroopers were trained. One and a half thousand foot soldiers of the Israel Defense Forces were trained in Olomouc, two thousand more in Mikulov. They formed the part that was originally called the Gottwald Brigade in honor of the leader of the Czechoslovak Communists and the head of the country. The brigade was transferred to Palestine through Yugoslavia. Medical personnel were trained in Wielka Strebn, radio operators and telegraph operators in Liberec, electricians in Pardubice. Soviet political instructors conducted political classes with young Israelis. At the “request” of Stalin, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, Romania and Bulgaria refused to supply weapons to the Arabs, which they did immediately after the end of the war for purely commercial reasons. In Romania and Bulgaria, Soviet specialists trained officers for the Israel Defense Forces.

    Along with weapons from Eastern Europe, Jewish warriors who had experience in the war against Germany arrived in Palestine. Secretly sent to Israel and Soviet officers. (...) According to State Security General Pavel Sudoplatov, “the use of Soviet intelligence officers in combat and sabotage operations against the British in Israel was already begun in 1946.” (...) At the direction of Lavrenty Beria, the best officers of the NKVD-MGB were seconded to Palestine.

    (...) the first Soviet “specialists” arrived in Palestine shortly after the October Revolution. In the 1920s, on the personal instructions of Felix Dzerzhinsky, the first Jewish self-defense forces “Israel Shoikhet” were created by a resident of the Cheka Lukacher (operational nickname “Khozro”).

    Sudoplatov wrote that he had allocated three Jewish officers for clandestine operations: Garbuz, Semenov and Kolesnikov. The first two settled in Haifa and created two agent networks, but did not take part in sabotage against the British. Kolesnikov managed to arrange the delivery from Romania to Palestine of small arms and faustpatrons captured from the Germans. The people of Sudoplatov (...) were preparing the very bridgehead for a possible invasion of Soviet troops.

    National Defense magazine, Valery Yaremenko, article "The Soviet War for Israel's Independence"
    http://old.nationaldefense.ru/2332/2348/index.shtml?id=7444
  31. Professor
    19 May 2014 09: 12
    +1
    Quote: dzau
    as well as artillery and mortars.

    Your mine-paste is tiring. I ask you a specific question: what kind of artillery and mortar samples were delivered to Israel? Tales do not interest me.

    Quote: dzau
    At the direction of Lavrenty Beria, the best officers of the NKVD-MGB were seconded to Palestine.

    Name, combat path?

    Quote: dzau
    Documents, figures and facts give a certain idea of ​​the role of the Soviet military component in the formation of the State of Israel.

    Links to documents? request
  32. dzau
    dzau 19 May 2014 19: 22
    +1
    Quote: Professor
    Name, combat path?

    Quote: Professor
    Links to documents?

    Below, Sudoplatov. Something you are quoting from it immediately lost.

    Quote: Professor
    what kind of artillery and mortar samples were delivered to Israel? Tales do not interest me.

    Specify this with the authors of the sources given. Indications of the country of production and the time of shipment are enough to reach the range of models.

    If you understand only comics as a monkey, in the form of photographs with captions, it’s easy to believe me: there are more than enough destroyed from Israeli mortar shelling of Arab settlements of that period.

    Photo Source: your favorite wikipedia, comment:
    The Irgun, which concentrated forces equivalent to six companies for this purpose, and two three-inch mortars (...) attacked the northern region of Jaffa - Manshia. (...) ended with the retreat of the Arab forces and the flight of residents to the central part of the city. (...) There is evidence (...) that the militants of the Irgun abused the corpses of the murdered Arabs.

    Article Arab-Israeli war (1947-1949)
  33. Professor
    19 May 2014 20: 44
    +1
    Quote: dzau
    Below, Sudoplatov. Something you are quoting from it immediately lost.

    I just read how he unloaded tanks in the port. which tanks did not find out? Maybe T-34, Merkava or Abramsy?

    Quote: dzau
    Specify this with the authors of the sources given.

    I’m trying to clarify with you, because you are such a connoisseur, and I present the mine-pastes from Wikipedia to the public. Maybe enlighten?

    Quote: dzau
    If you understand only comics as a monkey, in the form of photographs with captions, it’s easy to believe me: there are more than enough destroyed from Israeli mortar shelling of Arab settlements of that period.

    I'm curious about artillery and mortars. There is a photo? Well, at least tell the caliber, laugh together.
  34. dzau
    dzau 20 May 2014 10: 47
    +3
    Quote: Professor
    I just read how he unloaded tanks in the port

    Come on, bring a quote from Sudoplatov’s memoir to us with a description of the unloading of the T-34, or what did you find there?
    Do not bring - then yap.

    Quote: Professor
    I'm curious about artillery and mortars. There is a photo? Well, at least tell the caliber, laugh together.

    Ask yourself for a rake:

    According to the historian Yehuda Slutsky (...) on May 15, 1948, Hagana’s weapons were (...) 10 submachine guns (...), 264 pistols, 5607 rifles, 21 light and 859 machine guns, 1269 two-inch and 182 three-inch mortars, 682 guns of a caliber of 105 millimeters.

    "Weapons for the Promised Land" Semyon Fedoseev, Vladimir Shcherbakov, "Around the World" No. 5, May 2008
    About a thousand mortars - is it a lot or a little? Still denying the lack of massive supplies from the eastern camp?
  35. The comment was deleted.
  36. dzau
    dzau 19 May 2014 00: 08
    0
    in the same place:
    Israeli special forces were created from scratch. Direct participation in the creation and training of commandos was taken by the best officers of the NKVD-MGB, (the "Stalinist Falcons" from the Berkut detachment, 101st intelligence school and Directorate "C" of General Sudoplatov) who had operational and sabotage experience: Otroshchenko, Korotkov, Vertiporoh and dozens of others. In addition to them, two generals from infantry and aviation, the vice admiral of the Navy, five colonels and eight lieutenant colonels, and, of course, junior officers (...)

    The Soviet special services were active in the left and pro-communist circles, as well as in the right underground organizations LEHI and ETSEL. For example, a resident of Beersheba Chaim Bresler in 1942-1945. he was in Moscow as part of the LEHI representative office, was engaged in the supply of weapons and trained militants. He kept photographs of the war years with Dmitry Ustinov, the then Minister of Armaments, later the USSR Minister of Defense and a member of the Political Bureau of the Central Committee of the CPSU, with prominent intelligence officers: Yakov Serebryansky (he worked in Palestine in 1920-ies with Jacob Blumkin), State Security General Pavel Raikhman and by other people. The acquaintances were quite significant for the person included in the list of Israel’s heroes and Lehi veterans.

    It is not known for certain how many Soviet troops left for Palestine before and during the War of Independence. According to Israeli sources, 200 thousand Soviet Jews used legal or illegal channels. Of these, “several thousand” are military personnel. In any case, the main language of "interethnic communication" in the Israeli army was Russian.

    The first Soviet resident in Israel in 1948 was Vladimir Vertiporoh, who was sent to work in this country under the pseudonym Rozhkov. (...)

    Documents, figures and facts give a certain idea of ​​the role of the Soviet military component in the formation of the State of Israel. Nobody helped the Jews with arms and immigrant soldiers, except for the Soviet Union and the countries of Eastern Europe. Until now, one can often hear and read in Israel that the Jewish state survived the “Palestinian war” thanks to “volunteers” from the USSR and other socialist countries.

    In Palestine, and especially after the creation of the State of Israel, there were extremely strong sympathies for the USSR as a state that, firstly, saved the Jewish people from extermination during World War II, and, secondly, provided tremendous political and military assistance to Israel in his struggle for independence. In Israel, humanly loved "Comrade Stalin," and the vast majority of the adult population simply does not want to hear any criticism of the Soviet Union. “Many Israelites idolized Stalin,” wrote the son of the famous intelligence officer Edgar Broyde-Trepper. “Even after Khrushchev’s report at the Twentieth Congress, many state institutions continued to adorn Stalin’s portraits, not to mention the kibbutzim.”
  37. The comment was deleted.
  • Kassandra
    Kassandra 17 May 2014 21: 58
    +1
    Quote: Professor
    It was, but was not, the Soviet war veterans whom Stalin sent

    and how could they go?

    maybe besides their names you still need to indicate in which sandbox their children play?
  • dzau
    dzau 17 May 2014 15: 43
    0
    Direct participation in the creation and training of Israeli special services was attended by the best officers of the NKVD-MGB who had operational and sabotage experience. Otroshenko, Korotkov, Vertiporoh, Sudoplatov (...)

    In total, two generals from infantry and aviation, the vice admiral of the Navy, five colonels and eight lieutenant colonels, and, of course, junior officers for immediate field work, were urgently sent to Israel.

    Along with specialists, transports with weapons and military equipment went through Czechoslovakia. (...)

    While disputes and behind-the-scenes negotiations on the fate of the Arab and Jewish states on the territory of Palestine were under way at the UN, the USSR began to build a new Jewish state at the shocking Stalinist pace. They started with the main thing - with the army, intelligence, counterintelligence and police. (...) Jewish territories resembled a military district, raised by alarm and urgently embarked on a military deployment.

    As one Soviet military expert recalls, by order of war, people from the required military specialties were identified among the settlers, delivered to bases where they quickly checked the counterintelligence line, and then were urgently taken to ports where ships were unloaded. As a result, the tanks, which were just delivered from the side to the pier, landed a full crew and drove military equipment to the place of permanent deployment. (...)

    Captain Halperin became the founder and first head of the Mossad intelligence, created the Shin Bet public security and counterintelligence service. He entered the history of Israel and its special services under the name Iser Harel. (...)

    Officer "Smersha" Livanov - founded and led the foreign intelligence service "Nativa Bar". He took the Jewish name Nehimia Levanon, under which he entered the history of the special services.

    Captain Nikolsky, Zaitsev and Malevany (the father of the author of the book) "put" the work of the special forces Tsakhal (Israel Self-Defense Army), two naval officers not mentioned in the book created and trained a naval special forces unit. Theoretical training was interspersed with regular practical exercises - raids on the rear of Arab armies and cleansing of Palestinian villages (...)

    None of them invented an Israeli bicycle on the spot (...) structures created in the image and likeness of those in which they served. (...)

    According to veterans of the special services, an atmosphere of manic secrecy reigned in Mossad under Halperin-Kharel, an unnatural desire to save financial resources, distrust of new-fashioned technical means (...) in appearance and manners was former MGB captain Halperin, later Colonel Mossad and honorary pensioner Israel Harel, tried in every possible way to resemble his idol - Lavrenty Pavlovich.

    Only one fact speaks about the volume of material and technical supplies for the deployment of the Israeli army. In May 1948, the Arabs seized the Leikoft ship, which carried 700 guns, 20 tanks and 20 armored vehicles, not counting ammunition.

    Given this "aid" that went into the hands of Israeli settlers, the male half of whom had almost complete experience of the war in Europe, it is no wonder that the newly baked Israeli army successfully repelled the aggression of the consolidated corps of Arab states in 1948.

    Valery Malevaniy "Special Forces of Israel", ed. "Yauza", Moscow, 2005
    cited from here: http://www.liveinternet.ru/users/mairos_kali/post56829224/

    **
    If not enough - contact. We will continue the educational program.
    1. Professor
      17 May 2014 16: 31
      +1
      Quote: dzau
      Officer "Smersha" Livanov - founded and led the foreign intelligence service "Nativa Bar". He took the Jewish name Nehimia Levanon, under which he entered the history of the special services.

      I love educational program. Receive:
      Levanon Nehemiah

      KEE, volume Additional 3, count 266 – 267
      LEVANON Nehemiah (before the change of surname - Levitan; 1915, city of Ruzhen, Livonia province, - 2003, kibbutz Kfar-Blum), Israeli statesman and public figure. Born in the family of the director of a small factory, member of the revolutionary movement I. Levitan (? –1920). In 1917, with the approach of German troops, the family left for Perm, and at the end of 1920, they moved to Petrograd. In 1922, the Levanon family went abroad and settled in Tallinn. Levanon studied at a school under the Jewish community with teaching in Russian, then at a Jewish gymnasium. In 1930, Mr .. joined the Zionist youth organization "Amana", then in Ha-Shomer ha-tsa'ir, was a member of the He-Halutz movement, led the Tallinn branch of the movement. In 1935, he moved to Latvia, headed the Riga branch of the youth-Zionist movement Herzliya. In 1938, he repatriated to Eretz Yisrael. He joined the kibbutz Afikim, in 1939 he became the secretary of the Anglo-Baltic group, created in Benjamin’s moshavim by repatriates from Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, England, and the USA. In 1943, the Anglo-Baltic group founded the kibbutz Kfar Blum. In 1945, he was sent by the Jewish Agency and the organization Netzah — ha-Shomer haza'ir to England to work with Jewish youth Zionist movements and organize aliyah. He was a delegate to the 22th Zionist Congress in Basel in December 1946. In June, 1948 returned to Israel, lived and worked in kibbutz Kfar Blum. He supervised the kibbutz economy.

      Here he is Officer "Smersha" Livanov wink

      Captain Nikolsky, Zaitsev and Malevany (the father of the author of the book) "put" the work of the special forces Tsakhal (Israel Self-Defense Army), two naval officers not mentioned in the book created and trained a naval special forces unit. Theoretical training was interspersed with regular practical exercises - raids on the rear of Arab armies and cleansing of Palestinian villages. Less than a year later, Israeli special forces units successfully passed their baptism of fire during the first war in the Sinai Peninsula.
      Give you a book to read who, how and when created the unit of the marine special forces Shayetet 13?

      PS
      Israel Honorary Retiree Izzy Harel
      I'll take it into my quote book, unless of course you don't mind. "honorary pensioner of Israel", it was necessary to come up with such a thing !!! good
      1. dzau
        dzau 17 May 2014 17: 19
        +1
        Given this information:
        When it comes to the USSR, the collective Israeli memory tries to exclude even indisputable facts, such as the decisive diplomatic and military support provided by the USSR to Israel during the most difficult times of the War of Independence and even the contribution of Soviet volunteers and military advisers to the victory in that war. But in the armed forces of the newly created Jewish state as part of the MAHAL corps (the abbreviation Mitnadvey huts laarets are foreign volunteers in Hebrew), several hundred “volunteers” from the USSR fought, mainly Jewish officers who were specially demobilized for this from the Soviet Army. They made a decisive contribution to the creation of Israeli artillery and armored forces. The official site of the Mahal, created with the assistance of the Israeli Ministry of Defense, talks a lot about Indian and British volunteer pilots, about American Jewish veterans who fought in the War of Independence. And only among other nationalities, in a word, Soviet volunteers are mentioned. I was especially interested in this issue in open publications of the Ministry of Defense. Even the reluctant acknowledgment of the inconvenient fact that the Israeli Navy was created in Italy with the personal support of Mussolini in 1930 is easier to obtain than materials about volunteers from the USSR. The memory of them remained in personal memories and fragmentary mentions of old Telavivian newspapers.

        (Michael Dorfman
        http://forum-msk.org/material/fpolitic/13899.html
        Sveta Roberman, “Memory in Emigration: Soldiers of the Red Army in Israel,” Ed. Magnes University of Jerusalem)

        your link to an Israeli site with an official version of the biography may be as unreliable as (in your opinion) the source in the person of the son of one of the officers of the Israeli army. T. more in the case concerning biographies of functionaries of similar institutions.

        Again, in your opinion, all cited authors and all books lie. Including, for some reason, yours is Israeli. Government workers, direct participants in the events and their children; Journalists and historians who personally communicated with the participants.

        You alone, who wrote the "article" of three paragraphs, without a single reference to the sources, speak the truth.
        1. Professor
          17 May 2014 20: 59
          0
          Quote: dzau
          your link to an Israeli site with an official version of the biography may be as unreliable as (in your opinion) the source in the person of the son of one of the officers of the Israeli army. T. more in the case concerning biographies of functionaries of similar institutions.

          You link to Hebrew throw? To get started, here's a photo from his home album
          Here he is in Tallinn in 1934


          Here he is with his son Yair in London in 1947:



          Quote: dzau
          Again, in your opinion, all cited authors and all books lie. Including, for some reason, yours is Israeli. Government workers, direct participants in the events and their children; Journalists and historians who personally communicated with the participants.

          blah blah blah, facts, full name, photo, positions, military way.

          Quote: dzau
          You alone, who wrote the "article" of three paragraphs, without a single reference to the sources, speak the truth.

          Write a better article if you can and you may be given the non-existent title of "Israel's honorary pensioner."
          1. dzau
            dzau 19 May 2014 00: 34
            +1
            Quote: Professor
            facts, full name, photo, position, military path.

            an order was received in 1946 to send our agents to Palestine through Romania. They were supposed to create an illegal agent network in Palestine that could be used in military and sabotage operations against the British. For this purpose, I selected three officers: Garbuz, Semenov (real name Taubman - he was Grigulevich's assistant in the Lithuanian underground and helped to eliminate Rudolf Klement in Paris in 1938) and Kolesnikov. Garbuz and Kolesnikov had experience in partisan warfare in Ukraine and Belarus, where they participated in operations against the German occupation authorities. Semenov and Kolesnikov settled in Haifa and created two agent networks, but did not take part in sabotage against the British. Kolesnikov managed to organize the delivery from Romania to Palestine of small arms and anti-tank grenades, captured from the Germans. Semenov, for his part, tried to renew contact with our agent in the Stern organization. It was an anti-British terrorist group, where Serebryansky managed to send his man in 1937. Garbuz remained in Romania, selecting candidates for future resettlement to Israel.

            Publisher: Sudoplatov P.A. Special operations. Lubyanka and the Kremlin 1930-1950.
            M .: OLMA-PRESS, 1997.
            http://www.lib.ru/POLITOLOG/SUDOPLATOW/specoperacii.txt

            As you can see, the Soviet intelligence network existed in your homeland long before independence. And by the beginning of the war in Palestine, she was engaged in such routine things as securing arms supplies to Jewish units.

            I'm afraid you now have to write an essay about "debunking the myths about Sudoplatov."

            **
            Your photographs, if a person on them was part of an agent network (and not a specific one - there were others) - it can prove exactly that his institution worked conscientiously and well with a biography.

            You can flounder in attempts to "bring to the water" a specific fact. Maybe even one of the authors of the publications lied, exaggerated, thought out.

            But against an array of facts, logic and evidence - you are completely helpless.
            Unless pdf-kami in Yiddish and Hebrew throw us.
          2. Professor
            19 May 2014 09: 21
            +1
            Quote: dzau
            As you can see, the Soviet intelligence network existed in your homeland long before independence. And by the beginning of the war in Palestine, she was engaged in such routine things as securing arms supplies to Jewish units.

            The bikes went again. In general, the entire underground was the Soviet NKVD.

            Quote: dzau
            Your photographs, if a person on them was part of an agent network (and not a specific one - there were others) - it can prove exactly that his institution worked conscientiously and well with a biography.

            Children photos of "officer" Smersh "Livanov" to spread? wink Or his photo from the 30s, where is he with Ben Gurion together? wink

            Quote: dzau
            You can flounder in attempts to "bring to the water" a specific fact. Maybe even one of the authors of the publications lied, exaggerated, thought out.

            Can not be. Here, only I and my sources lie giving screenshots of documents, protocols and a bunch of photos. Your sources are limited to tales and just blah blah blah. More specifics.

            Quote: dzau
            But against an array of facts, logic and evidence - you are completely helpless.
            Unless pdf-kami in Yiddish and Hebrew throw us.

            Even against an array of lies, one small, old documentary like the armor of a battleship. And my links to "pdfs in Yiddish and Hebrew" are hundreds of them. Bring you at least one such, I beg you. Start with samples of artillery and mortars and I will not leave stone unturned in your bikes.
            Good luck. wink

            PS
            Already write an article with a bibliography?

            PPS
            I'm afraid you now have to write an essay about "debunking the myths about Sudoplatov."

            The Jewish territories resembled a military district that was alarmed and promptly began combat deployment. There was nobody to plow, everyone was preparing for war. By order of Soviet officers among the settlers, people of the required military specialties came to light, were brought to bases, where they were quickly checked by the Soviet counterintelligence, and then immediately taken to the ports, where the ships were unloaded from the British. As a result, the tanks, just delivered from board to pier, sat down a full crew and drove military equipment to the place of permanent deployment or directly to the battlefield.


            I'm crying. crying Unloading tanks in secret from the British? What kind of tanks? When? Where from? "a full crew sat down and drove military equipment to the place of permanent deployment or directly to the place of battles" - some scribblers sniff cool glue, however. wassat
          3. dzau
            dzau 19 May 2014 18: 45
            +2
            So Sudoplatov, it turns out, a liar and a liar?

            It's funny, you demand "sources" when they are provided, declare everyone to be liars in bulk. Not providing from its side a single document, not a single reference to the primary sources.

            In addition to the 600-page Talmud in Hebrew, with the threat of throwing the Talmuds yet.

            Excuse me, are you sane? Or is there really nothing to cover?
          4. Kassandra
            Kassandra 20 May 2014 06: 17
            0
            Quote: Professor
            was the Soviet NKVD

            And who was in the NKVD? Well, of course, except for Latvians?
          5. Professor
            20 May 2014 08: 54
            0
            Quote: Kassandra
            And who was in the NKVD? Well, of course, except for Latvians?

            Katzman, Superman and Batman. laughing
  • The comment was deleted.
  • zaazua
    zaazua 17 May 2014 19: 54
    0
    MGB captain Halperin

    In 1929, after the bloody anti-Jewish pogrom in Hebron, Harel (aka Halperin) and his young friends decided to move to Palestine to strengthen Jewish settlements. Isser, 17, arrived in Palestine in 1930

    It doesn’t fit: the captain is 17 years old!
  • zaazua
    zaazua 17 May 2014 20: 09
    -1
    I followed the link, I read: "With the beginning of World War II, the case took a serious turn. It is no secret that World War II was for the possession of the British colonies."
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Kar Karych
    Kar Karych 17 May 2014 00: 02
    +1
    Professor you again made a booth out of topic, trying to prove something a little Wikipedia, especially the majority are skeptical about it. How many more references and proofs you need, you at least specifically answer what you still need. And enough to insult your opponents, you recently made it clear that you are a well-mannered person. Or is it not so?
  • Kar Karych
    Kar Karych 17 May 2014 00: 06
    +6
    Quote: Professor
    Quote: Kar Karych
    Professor and apart from "Wikipedia" there is nothing?

    You and the wiki are too much. Read Murzilka. tongue


    No professor hike murzilka in your head for a very long time.
  • dzau
    dzau 19 May 2014 01: 09
    +2
    Quote: zaazua
    In 1929 (...) does not fit: the captain is 17 years old!

    You started reading the "article" (although the word "abstract" is more appropriate) of our distinguished professor too early. This is a copy-paste from Wikipedia there since the 40th century, and the "article" itself is three paragraphs about the war of independence, that is, about the end of the 20s. And after 17 years, your "20-year-old captain" could have been recruited 40 times to the right place. By the age of XNUMX, he would have managed to reach the rank of major.

    Although it is not about him at all. The uncle in the essay claims that the self-proclaimed Israel, which was internationally isolated, in the conditions of the actual arms embargo, conjured a organized, trained and equipped (up to aviation and artillery) armed forces with a magic wand. Himself, to the chagrin and the British, and the states and the USSR.

    When the Americans themselves, people from the government, openly admitted that Jews deprived of large-scale external support would simply be crushed by the masses.

    Forrestal (US defense min. 47-48):
    “Forty million Arabs,” the minister assured his interlocutors, “four hundred thousand Jews will be pushed into the sea.” And that’s all.

    http://www.e-reading.ws/chapter.php/39547/13/Mlechin_-_Zachem_Stalin_sozdal_Izra


    il% 27_.html
    1. Professor
      19 May 2014 09: 58
      0
      Quote: dzau
      You started reading the "article" (although the word "abstract" is more appropriate) of our distinguished professor too early. This is a copy-paste from Wikipedia there since the 40th century, and the "article" itself is three paragraphs about the war of independence, that is, about the end of the 20s. And after 17 years, your "20-year-old captain" could have been recruited 40 times to the right place. By the age of XNUMX, he would have managed to reach the rank of major.

      Let it be Halperin. Your link states: "As a result, Captain Halperin (born in Vitebsk in 1912) became the founder and first head of Mossad intelligence, created the Shin Bet security service and counterintelligence."
      The Mossad was created on December 13 of the 1949 of the year by Ruben Shiloah by order of Ben Gurion. Shiloah (former surname Zaslansky) was born in Jerusalem on the 20 of December of the 1909 of the year and in no way in Vitebsk.

      ראובן שילוח


      Isah Harel (née Halperin) succeeded Shchilah in the 1952 year. At the age of 10, he moved with his family from Vitebsk to Daugavpils; at the age of 17, he moved to Palestine in the year 1930. He was probably recruited at the age of 10 in Vitebsk during the confiscation of family property or in the youth Zionist organization “Hashomer-Khatsair” or when he worked for a year at the age of 16 from this organization on a farm near Riga, preparing to become a kibbutznik and this secret is not was revealed until his death in the year 2003 ...


      Isser Harel
      Continue copy-paste?
      1. dzau
        dzau 19 May 2014 19: 45
        0
        Quote: Professor
        Let Halperin be

        Who approved the order to create the service and who really built its work are two big differences, my dear friend.

        At least you no longer deny the Russian origin (progress), although, frankly speaking, it is completely unimportant: for 20 years of the conscious life of such comrades (before the beginning of the events of "independence"), there was an opportunity to recruit them 20 times, including from the outside. these comrades:
        In 1946, orders were received to drop our agents into Palestine through Romania. They were supposed to create an illegal agent network in Palestine (...) I identified three officers: Garbuz, Semenov (real name Taubman - he was Grigulevich’s assistant to the Lithuanian underground and helped to liquidate Rudolf Klement in Paris in 1938) and Kolesnikov.

        Publisher: Sudoplatov P.A. Special operations. Lubyanka and the Kremlin 1930-1950.
        M .: OLMA-PRESS, 1997.
        http://www.lib.ru/POLITOLOG/SUDOPLATOW/specoperacii.txt

        You have been repeatedly told about the official Israeli version of the "biography": practically all "official biographies" of former employees of this profile have been carefully "washed", corrected, or the stamp has not been secretly removed at all.

        Moreover, which is characteristic, the interest in carrying out such work was both from the Soviet Union itself (the reasons are obvious) and from Israel (if only to admit to being obligated to the country, which, after all the assistance provided by it, was simply betrayed).

        Your monkey, the work of casting opponents with links in Hebrew, will not find understanding on the Russian resource, dear.
        1. Professor
          19 May 2014 21: 01
          0
          Quote: dzau
          Who approved the order to create the service and who really built its work are two big differences, my dear friend.

          You are not my friend. It was not Halperin who issued the order and created and headed the Mossad, as you were trying to assert here, too, not he. This is a medical fact.

          Quote: dzau
          At least you no longer deny the Russian origin (progress), although, frankly speaking, it is completely unimportant: for 20 years of the conscious life of such comrades (before the beginning of the events of "independence"), there was an opportunity to recruit them 20 times, including from the outside. these comrades:

          Not Russian, but Russian. Trumpeldor in general served in the Russian army, so what? In your opinion, the head of foreign intelligence and the head of counterintelligence of Israel was a Soviet spy? You should write novels ... lol

          Quote: dzau
          Publisher: Sudoplatov P.A. Special operations. Lubyanka and the Kremlin 1930-1950.

          You leave these left links for pioneers, but now I’ll start to give my beloved links.
          Does it mean that the children's and family photos of "officer" Smersh "Livanov" should not be posted? And his home in KfarBloom? Memories of his childhood friends? No? What a pity.

          Quote: dzau
          Your monkey, the work of casting opponents with links in Hebrew, will not find understanding on the Russian resource, dear.

          You see. Serious works on the history of the Israeli army are written in spank Hebrew. In Russian, it’s basically such nonsense that you clogged the entire branch, without documents, screenshots and other things inherent in serious historical work. More or less normal work, and those based (what can you do) on books in Hebrew. For example, this one. KRYLIA_VOZMEDIA.pdfSo buy yourself a Jewish tutorial and study, study and study.
          1. Kassandra
            Kassandra 20 May 2014 06: 32
            +1
            Can you tell me where?

            And it’s nothing that all this was done more by those who spoke Russian and Yiddish? (forgive and understand the Uzlaner). repeat
            girls and boys alice arrived at everything ready then.
            This is also true as Czech Messers with a German engine flew in Palestine and not pink Mustangs with a Rolls-Royce Merlin engine
            1. Professor
              20 May 2014 09: 04
              0
              Quote: Kassandra
              And it’s nothing that all this was done more by those who spoke Russian and Yiddish? (forgive and understand the Uzlaner).

              And what does Stalin have to do with releasing Jews from the Soviets?

              Quote: Kassandra
              Was that Friday?

              Has Friday become a holy day for Jews? Nobody told me this ... lol

              PS
              It was tuesday hi
              1. The comment was deleted.
              2. Kassandra
                Kassandra 20 May 2014 20: 35
                0
                Such that it was his Messerschmitts and all that jazz.

                Not letting anyone out.
                If he let anyone out, then all of Palestine would still speak English and Arabic.
          2. dzau
            dzau 20 May 2014 12: 44
            +1
            Quote: Professor
            It was not Halperin who issued the order and created and headed the Mossad, as you tried to assert here, too, he

            Ah, so is this the left type at all? And the truth is:
            Isser Harel, real name Halperin, 1912, Vitebsk (...) - head of the Israeli intelligence and security services from 1948 to 1963.

            (your favorite wikipedia).

            Quote: Professor
            Not Russian, but Russian. Trumpeldor in general served in the Russian army, so what? In your opinion, the head of foreign intelligence and the head of counterintelligence of Israel was a Soviet spy

            Why so at once? "Had contacts", for example, sounds more unobtrusive. And how else, under the conditions of the blockade, was it possible to arrange for, in essence, the smuggling of arms to a belligerent country? And even so large-scale. If the supplies were carried out by the eastern bloc, then the contacts were clear with whom.

            If not one, then the other - he was definitely forced to have such contacts.

            Quote: Professor
            You leave these left links for pioneers

            Well really, professor.
            Pavel Anatolyevich Sudoplatov (...) Soviet intelligence officer, employee of the OGPU (later NKVD - NKGB) (...) Lieutenant General of the USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs.

            (again wikipedia)
            The Prime Minister of his own country is a liar, the General of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the USSR is a liar. Veterans of the special services of their own country are liars. Well such and such.

            Quote: Professor
            Serious works on the history of the Israeli army are written in (...) Hebrew. In Russian, basically such nonsense

            Anything not in Hebrew is a lie?

            Quote: Professor
            For example, this one. KRYLIA_VOZMEDIA.pdf (...) buy yourself a Jewish tutorial and learn

            You seem to be too lazy to own source not only to quote, but to read in general. Well, I'm not too lazy:

            The military aid that Israel received from Czechoslovakia at the most desperate moment in its history was invaluable. It is known that even then there was a "big brother" behind the Czechs, but the discussion of what Joseph Vissarionovich Stalin wanted to achieve with this support is beyond the scope of this book.

            Zhirokhov M. A., "Wings of Vengeance"
            (your link, p. 22)
          3. dzau
            dzau 20 May 2014 12: 48
            0
            And even (who was talking about tanks and artillery there?):
            Israeli units, at the beginning of the war, more like a militia, equipped the troops with tanks, armored vehicles and artillery. Many experienced soldiers and officers arrived in Israel. For example, the only Israeli tank regiment consisted of two companies: one was "Anglo-American" and the other was "Soviet."

            (your link, p. 35)

            Three B-17s took off from the atets afiabaza in Czechoslovakia, heading for the Middle East. The planes loaded with bombs were supposed to attack the Egyptians (...) The arriving "flying fortresses" radically changed the power of the Israeli bomber aircraft and were used very intensively

            (ibid., p. 38)

            In total, 100 departures were made from атеatec during its use and 350 tons of very peaceful cargo were delivered to Israel.

            (ibid., p. 43)

            The low combat readiness of 101 squadrons (...) forced the Israelis to turn to Czechoslovakia again as the only serious seller of aircraft under the embargo (...) Yugoslavia agreed to provide an airfield in Podgorica for an intermediate landing

            (ibid., pp. 46-47)

            Meanwhile, in friendly Czechoslovakia, the Israelis were preparing a second batch of Spitfires for the flight. (...) the first 10 aircraft went to Israel by sea. (...) for the flight to Podgorica, fighters had to put Yugoslav signs.

            (ibid. p. 61)
          4. The comment was deleted.
      2. Kassandra
        Kassandra 20 May 2014 06: 23
        0
        Scouts usually do not write the truth to themselves. Or...
        Quote: Professor
        was created on December 13th, 1949 by Ruben

        Was that Friday?
        fool
        1. supertiger21
          supertiger21 20 May 2014 18: 53
          +1
          Quote: Kassandra
          Scouts usually do not write the truth to themselves. Or ... Quote: The professor was created on December 13, 1949 by Ruben. Was it Friday?


          hi
          Well, like Kassandra, is it nice to talk to trolls? laughing
          1. Kassandra
            Kassandra 25 May 2014 23: 03
            0
            the professor came to his senses - the comment was deleted. lol
            maybe it really was on Friday the 13th and not on Tuesday?
  • dzau
    dzau 20 May 2014 14: 00
    +1
    Well, they gave Mr. Professor an array of quotes from a book with which he himself was running around with a written bag, and Mr. Professor was quiet.

    Shameful, dear, do not read your own sources.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • tetatus
    tetatus April 11 2015 23: 45
    0
    so many negative reviews about the article, maybe then you would like this one. http://iks2010.org/? p = 9826
  • Snoop
    Snoop April 16 2017 16: 41
    +1
    My simple conclusion: Professor is just a provocateur. Previously, I was very good with Jews and always considered them smart people. But having met on this resource with a professor and similar c. Israel ....
  • hhhhhhh
    hhhhhhh 18 June 2017 22: 31
    +1
    If it were not for the Soviet people under the leadership of Stalin there would be no topic for discussion. Any article by Jews should begin with words of gratitude to Stalin and the Soviet people.
  • Aristarch
    Aristarch 10 February 2018 11: 32
    0
    Very unfortunate for justice. Maybe a "professor", but not according to history, but bias and engagement is off the scale.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Jacblask
    Jacblask 11 May 2020 01: 39
    0
    Certainly, Stalin did not recreate Israel, it happened as our Creator planned. Here, apparently, a game of terminology in which Stalin-created, should be replaced by Stalin, with a decisive voice at the UN, had a hand in it. Note Great Britain abstained.