Military Review

The power of the Bundeswehr in the past

110
The power of the Bundeswehr in the past



The German army remains one of the largest in Europe, but it is no longer the main striking force of NATO

One of the main goals of the creation of NATO’s bloc in 1949 was control over Germany, at that time only Western. At the same time, the FRG turned out to be on a potential front line, moreover on the main line of the failed attack of the Warsaw Pact troops. Therefore, the Bundeswehr became the main striking force of NATO in Europe, in addition, powerful contingents of armed forces (AF) of the USA, Great Britain, France, Canada, Holland and Belgium were deployed on German territory. These forces were combined into two groups of army armies and two air armies.

Pacifism led to the disintegration of the troops

After the reunification of Germany in 1990, the Bundeswehr achieved enormous combat power - seven thousand tanks, 8,9 thousand infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers, 4,6 thousand guns, mortars and MLRS, one thousand combat aircraft. In addition, 5,9 thousand American tanks, 5,7 thousand infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers, 2,6 thousand artillery systems, and more than 300 aircraft were in German territory. Even up to 1,5 tanks, the same number of infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers, and at least 500 artillery systems had other NATO countries here.

All this remains in the distant past. Army groups and air armies are disbanded. The French, the Dutch, the Belgians and the Canadians left Germany long ago. In the 2015, the British contingent will also leave. In the spring and summer of the 2013, the last Abrams American tanks and A-10 attack aircraft went home.

The Bundeswehr itself has been reduced many times. First, he sold the equipment of the former GDR, and then - most of the West German, including quite modern. The federal government put the most powerful German military industrial complex in a very difficult position, not only not providing it with a sufficient volume of domestic orders, but also creating competition for it in the external market by selling off quite modern weapons from the presence of the Bundeswehr.

At the same time, in the 1999 year, the Bundeswehr (represented by the Luftwaffe) joined the battle for the first time since 1945 in the Balkans during the NATO aggression against Serbia. Then the German contingents were stationed in Kosovo, in Afghanistan, they also took a limited part in some peacekeeping operations in Tropical Africa. In the course of these wars, it became clear that the pacifist anti-fascist psychological pressure, which the German society underwent after the defeat of Nazi Germany, was not in vain. If from the middle of the 19th century to the mid-20th century, the German servicemen were distinguished by exceptional courage and the highest level of combat training, now it is the Germans who have become the vanguard of European corruption and pacifism. Today they show only exceptional cowardice.


Luftwaffe fighter during battles in the Balkans. Photo: Luca Bruno / AP


It is quite logical that after the abolition of universal conscription in 2010, the Bundeswehr is experiencing an acute shortage of personnel. However, the abolition of the call was inevitable because at least two thirds of the draftees went to alternative service, and their share was constantly growing. Now Berlin is rapidly closing its presence in Afghanistan, Germany did not take any part in the Libyan campaign of NATO and in every way impeded any military intervention in the Syrian civil war.

What is the German army

Today the composition of the Armed Forces of Germany is as follows.

Ground forces include five divisions. These are the 1-I tank division (it consists of two tank brigades: 9-I and 21-I), 10-I tank division (12-I tank and 23-I mine brigades), 13-I infantry division (37-I) I and the 41-i motorized infantry brigade), airmobile division (1-I air-mechanized brigade, combat support brigade, three helicopter regiments) and special operations division (26-I and 31-I airborne brigade).

The tank fleet includes 668 "Leopard-2" (20 years ago there were more than two thousand) and 147 "Leopard-1". The first ones are gradually sold out, the second ones are trimmed into metal and shot at the landfills.

The number of Marder BMPs was reduced to 1315, they should be replaced by the Puma BMP in the amount of approximately 400 (for now, however, there is not a single machine).

The dominant class of armored vehicles in the German army are armored personnel carriers and armored cars. Today, the Bundeswehr has 434 TpZ-1 Fuchs, 97 Boxer, 336 Wiesel (this machine is sometimes classified as BMD), 81 BV206S, 221 Fenech.

Artillery includes the newest PzH174 2000 self-propelled guns, 124 XTUMELLA 120 self-propelled mortar and 97 MLRS MLRS.
The troop defense consists of the 50 SAM “Ocelot”, also known as ASRAD (these are four Stinger MANPADS on the chassis of the Wiesel), and the 835 Stinger MANPADS in the “original” figurative version.

As part of the army aviation there are 37 UHT Tiger attack helicopters (there will be about 20 more) and 115 VO-105 (another 24 in storage), 93 multi-purpose UH-1Ds, 40 EU-135s, 78 latest NH-90s.

The German Air Force (Luftwaffe) includes the Operational Command and the Central Command (both are in Cologne). The operational command includes three air divisions (1-I, 2-I, 4-I).


BMP Puma.


The basis of the combat power of the Luftwaffe are European (German-English-Spanish-Italian) Typhoon fighter-bombers. According to the initial plans of 1986, the German Air Force intended to acquire 250 "Typhoon", in 1998, this plan was reduced to 180 machines, in 2003-m - to 143. Today put 104 "Typhoon" (including 25 training and combat). Remain in service with the Tornado bomber 132, another 37 machines are in storage in Germany itself, one is in storage in the US at the Davis-Montan base. 50 "Tornado" is expected to be written off in the near future. Accordingly, after the delivery of the "Typhoon" in the Luftwaffe will be about 230 combat aircraft. Old F-48F fighters (4 in Germany, 33 in the USA) are in storage, but they will be disposed of. At the military airbase Büchel are placed 15 of US nuclear bombs B-20, which in case of war will be used by Tornado planes of the German Air Force itself.

Transport aviation includes two A-319, two A-340, six A-310 (including four tankers), 72 C-160 (two more in storage), and 93 helicopters - 90 CH-53G, three AS532. The Luftwaffe training aviation does not have, pilots are trained in the United States on American aircraft.

Ground defense includes 18 batteries of the Patriot air defense missile system (eight PUs each, four missiles on PUs).

The German Navy (Bundesmarine) has fewer than 50 combat units. The submarine fleet includes four submarines of the 212 project (two more are under construction), which became the first submarines in the world with an air-independent power plant (VNEU). Because of this, the traditional term “diesel (diesel-electric) submarines” has become incorrect, now it has been replaced by the term “non-nuclear submarines”. In addition to being considered the best in the world in its class "212-x", there are five decommissioned submarines of the 206 Ave.

Frigates today the Germans have 12 - three new types of Sachsen, four modern types of Brandenburg and five old types of Bremen. Three more "Bremen" withdrawn from the Navy and may be sold, followed by the rest of the ships of this type. It is interesting that recently Ukraine was seriously considered as a potential buyer of these frigates, but now this issue is removed from the agenda due to a total lack of money from Kiev (unless Berlin decides to donate them to Kiev).

In addition, the Bundesmarin has five Braunschweig corvettes, eight Cheetah type missile boats (two older Albatross boats) and 20 minesweepers (ten 332 ave., Five 333 ave., Five 352 ave. ).

Naval aviation includes eight anti-submarine aircraft R-3 "Orion", three patrol Do-228, 43 helicopters (21 "Sea King", 22 "Super Links").


Submarine "U 23" class 206 (left) and submarine "U 34" class 212. Photo: Heribert Proepper / AP


As mentioned above, the grouping of foreign troops in Germany has radically declined over the last 20 years. It now includes remnants of the British and American contingents.

The British 1 Armored Division (headquartered in Herford) incorporates the 7 and 20 armored brigades, the 1 army army regiment, and the 28 engineering regiment. The division will be returned to British territory in 2015.

The US 7 Field Army (headquarters in Wiesbaden) has the 2 Cavalry Regiment (equivalent to the Stryker Brigade), the 12 Brigade of the Army Aviation, the 7 Brigade, the 18 X Brigade, the 16 Brigade, the 18 Brigade. XUUMX Brigade; 66 Brigade of the Military Police; 2 Brigade of Reconnaissance Brigade; 7 and XNUMX Brigade of Communications. As you can see, these are mainly auxiliary and rear formations that do not have tanks, infantry fighting vehicles, SAU and MLRS.

The 3 Air Force, the US Air Force (Ramstein) in Germany, includes the 52 air wing (Spangdahl) with F-16 fighter jets (roughly 50 units) and the 86 air wing (Ramstein) with C-130, C-20 aircraft, C-21A, C-37A.

On the whole, having decreased by several decades or even by several orders of magnitude in all classes of military equipment, the Bundeswehr remains one of the largest European armies, since the rest have declined almost as radically. However, the German army is no longer the main NATO strike force in Europe.
Author:
Originator:
http://rusplt.ru/world/Germaniya-armiya-9655.html
110 comments
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  1. waisson
    waisson 13 May 2014 13: 29
    +50
    they are all democrats sucks
    1. jjj
      jjj 13 May 2014 13: 33
      +14
      Bundeswehr already - Burgerswehr
      1. WKS
        WKS 13 May 2014 14: 05
        +2
        Quote: jjj
        From the middle of the XNUMXth to the middle of the XNUMXth century, German troops were distinguished by their exceptional courage and the highest level of combat training, but now it is the Germans who have become the vanguard of European corruption and pacifism.
        The greatest politician in history, Chancellor Otto Eduard Leopold von Bismarck-Schönhausen. That is what the role of personality means. For a hundred years, Germany had the bravest soldiers in the world. And the overwhelming hysteria A. Hitler destroyed it in just four years.
        1. Mitek
          Mitek 13 May 2014 14: 32
          +9
          Quote: wks
          Quote: jjj
          From the middle of the XNUMXth to the middle of the XNUMXth century, German troops were distinguished by their exceptional courage and the highest level of combat training, but now it is the Germans who have become the vanguard of European corruption and pacifism.
          The greatest politician in history, Chancellor Otto Eduard Leopold von Bismarck-Schönhausen. That is what the role of personality means. For a hundred years, Germany had the bravest soldiers in the world. And the overwhelming hysteria A. Hitler destroyed it in just four years.

          No, buddy. Ours are better. "It is not enough to kill a Russian soldier, he must also be knocked down!" Frederick II the Great .. Not once beaten by the Russians. And Otto himself was noted for the statements he made to our soldiers.
          1. zeleznijdorojnik
            zeleznijdorojnik 13 May 2014 15: 38
            +4
            All because of money, Bismarck had nothing to do with it - the Germans gained a powerful army after 1870 - when they received colossal reparations as a result of the Franco-Prussian war - they invested this money not only in the defense industry (Krupp, Thyssen, the same Mauser-verke), but in EDUCATION - since 1871, they had been compulsory for 8 years in general education - they received the ideal thinking soldier (here, I recall the compulsory secondary education appeared in the 20s).
            1. wax
              wax 13 May 2014 16: 59
              +2
              As a result, "The war was won by a Soviet tenth grader" - AA Zinoviev.
          2. Vladimirets
            Vladimirets 13 May 2014 16: 02
            +2
            Quote: Mitek
            "It is not enough to kill a Russian soldier, he must also be knocked down!" Frederick II the Great ..

            Battle of Kunersdorf.
          3. Revolver
            Revolver 13 May 2014 16: 37
            +5
            Quote: Mitek
            Ours are better. "It is not enough to kill a Russian soldier, he must also be knocked down!" Frederick II the Great .. Not once beaten by the Russians. And Otto himself was noted for the statements he made to our soldiers.

            In general, the Russian military school since the time of Peter the Great has been largely determined by the Germans. The very structure of military ranks, many traditions, the appearance of uniforms, even the marching step and rifle techniques - all from there. I don’t remember who, but he said very accurately: "The Germans taught the Russians to fight, and the Russians taught the Germans to fight." Judging by the article, they were weaned completely and irrevocably.
            1. nerd.su
              nerd.su 13 May 2014 20: 06
              +1
              Quote: Nagan
              "The Germans taught the Russians to fight, and the Russians taught the Germans to fight." Judging by the article, they were weaned completely and irrevocably

              Oh how! C taught / weaned correctly noticed.
              But to judge the Bundeswehr by the article is not worth it. For the author - dolbo ... temple.
              I don’t know where he gets the numbers from, but with Military Balance, for example, they differ somewhat.
              1. nerd.su
                nerd.su 13 May 2014 22: 13
                0
                Oh how! minus without justification ... Indeed, the deputy director of the Institute for Political and Military Analysis himself read my comment and was offended? laughing
        2. alicante11
          alicante11 13 May 2014 15: 48
          +1
          In fact, you can also recall Frederick the Great. And then the Germans showed themselves well.
        3. tolancop
          tolancop 13 May 2014 16: 17
          +7
          Do not write nonsense. In the loss of fighting qualities by German soldiers (if this actually takes place) it was not Hitler's fault, but a well-fed, safe post-war life.
      2. does it
        does it 13 May 2014 22: 47
        0
        Wehrmacht-Bundeswehr - Burgerswehr - ??????
    2. zeleznijdorojnik
      zeleznijdorojnik 13 May 2014 15: 42
      +14
      It is necessary to be friends with the Germans, although they fought with them all the 20th century, but not the Russians and the Germans pitted us, but the Anglo-Saxons, as in the 18th century. Germans from all Europeans are the most adequate.
  2. Ptah
    Ptah 13 May 2014 13: 31
    +12
    The Americans are eliminating their competitor here. Moreover, by the hands of the German authorities themselves.
    The Germans were "graciously assigned the role" of arms manufacturers.
    But they are trying to "fix" this too ...

    And on the photo is the boat "pr. 206". For almost a dozen years, there are no such people not only in the Kriegsmarine, but in general in the Baltic and northern seas.
    The last two have sold Bolivia ...
  3. waisson
    waisson 13 May 2014 13: 32
    +80
    The power of the Bundeswehr has remained in the past, using Austria as an example
    1. Ptah
      Ptah 13 May 2014 13: 43
      +16
      Quote: waisson
      The power of the Bundeswehr in the past

      The pan-European problem ...
      On the example of Russia.
      1. St Petrov
        St Petrov 13 May 2014 14: 02
        +37
        Yes, not draftees from above. 100%. There is at least a photo after KMB, and even then I think it takes at least half a year to make such fighters) They were always fat (someone sins by overeating, someone has stomach problems) and have always been and will be rickety. And here and growth and complexion as a selection. (either selected)

        It is clear that there were the rules of the TRP and so on, but I'm not sure that everyone from the citizen was called up for such an army =]

        And so the guy and I went on a train to school - I felt sorry for him - he weighed 110 kg. (as I took it xs) I thought it would be banter (not without it of course, but everything was decided during the KMB, became my own for everyone)

        When we rode the train back - we were already friends - and he weighed 75)

        The army will make you a man, son (s)
        1. Ptah
          Ptah 13 May 2014 14: 13
          +3
          Quote: s-t Petrov
          Yes, not draftees from above. 100%

          T.N. "sports companies" aren't they 18-year-old recruits? It is possible that they are.
          And about the "height-weight". It is difficult to identify the troops.
          If below 175 cm is unambiguously in "tankers", above 190 - in the fleet ...
          1. i80186
            i80186 13 May 2014 14: 31
            +2
            Oh well, 175 cm in the tank. I have 172cm and I was a tanker, so for me everything in the tank was too big. Just 180 + cm felt optimally. It should be noted that there was a T-62, there are really not enough places in the T-72, especially with the gunner.
          2. Corsair0304
            Corsair0304 13 May 2014 15: 37
            0
            below 175 - to tankers, this is understandable, limiting the parameters of the machine. And above 190 - in the fleet, why?
            1. dr.star75
              dr.star75 13 May 2014 18: 21
              +4
              Row your hands if the oars break.
          3. Warhead-xnumx
            Warhead-xnumx 13 May 2014 16: 05
            +2
            Quote: Ptah
            If below 175 cm is unambiguously in "tankers", above 190 - in the fleet ...

            I don’t agree, I’m 180 cm tall, I walked on the ship calmly, but our division commander, more than 2m tall, always walked hunched over, resting my head against the ceiling.
        2. g1v2
          g1v2 13 May 2014 17: 24
          +1
          And on the contrary, I came 63 left 78, and nefiga did not grow belly.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. XpeHoBuHa
        XpeHoBuHa 13 May 2014 14: 59
        +6
        Still in the photo, serving. Pants, boots all speaks about it ...

        Such will become those who are from below after six months of service
    2. yur
      yur 13 May 2014 14: 33
      +2
      Quote: waisson
      The power of the Bundeswehr has remained in the past, using Austria as an example
      Just then, half a century ago, that power began to disappear. This is when the men, instead of holding weapons in their hands, began to scold themselves in "beautiful" poses on the STAGE. stop
    3. does it
      does it 13 May 2014 22: 50
      +1
      Quote: waisson
      The power of the Bundeswehr has remained in the past, using Austria as an example

      Here answer me? What kind of creature is against Schwartz?
      1. Ptah
        Ptah 13 May 2014 23: 56
        +1
        Quote: kvirit
        What kind of creature (?) is opposite Schwartz?

        I guess the one who took his picture ...
        Well, is there someone else pictured? I do not see.
        Maybe I have some special monitor that doesn’t show, then what I should NOT pay attention to at all ...
  4. Gagarin
    Gagarin 13 May 2014 13: 33
    +23
    Thanks to the author for a detailed listing of everything.
    However, I think that all this IS ALREADY COMPLETELY SERIOUS FORCE.
    1. schizophrenic
      schizophrenic 13 May 2014 13: 40
      +15
      Quote: Gagarin
      SERIOUS FORCE

      I do not agree with the headline, in fact Germany is the most prepared army in Europe, do not forget about the reservists, and the fact that it does not creep into local conflicts for it +. Politicians in Germany are well aware that if they get into another war, there will be big problems politically, as well as the very existence of Germany.
      1. Ptah
        Ptah 13 May 2014 13: 47
        +6
        Quote: schizophrenic
        do not forget about reservists

        Those over 30 are still alive. Who has not become infected with the "bacillus tolerasty". Those who want to destroy the only combat-ready army in western Europe are trying to infect them with might and main. Different ways.
        Veterans will leave - BW will not become ... Alas ...
        1. 290980
          290980 13 May 2014 15: 30
          +13
          Veterans will leave


          I have a neighbor on the porch in Edelweiss who served, fought in Greece, then was captured by amers, tells a lot of interesting things, I always find time to talk with him, by the way, in today's situation in Ukraine, I am completely Russian.
      2. Buran
        Buran 13 May 2014 14: 12
        +5
        I was somewhat surprised at the diagnosis of a German intelligence officer captured in Slavyansk. Diabetes. Kind of weird...
        1. Orc-xnumx
          Orc-xnumx 13 May 2014 15: 12
          +2
          Sweden, not Germany! Be careful!
        2. Vadim12
          Vadim12 13 May 2014 15: 14
          0
          Apparently, the requirements are lower than ours ... To carry insulin everywhere with you ..
        3. aleks 62
          aleks 62 13 May 2014 16: 06
          0
          .... They and military pilots with glasses fly .... So it is not surprising ..
      3. asar
        asar 13 May 2014 14: 19
        +2
        As far as I remember, it was in the GDR that the most powerful ZGSV group was! Maybe not in vain ?!
    2. GDP
      GDP 13 May 2014 13: 49
      +8
      However, I think that all this IS ALREADY COMPLETELY SERIOUS FORCE.

      Definitely - this is power! And if we take into account the totality of the armies of Europe, even without taking into account the US army they have quantitative, and in some places qualitative superiority in many types of weapons, I would say almost everywhere.

      If we consider the NATO bloc as a whole, then we have parity only in artillery, well, maybe even in terms of the tank, and then it’s purely quantitative (taking into account the preserved tons of 72 (about 80%) of which it is not known how much on the move), but to a lesser extent .
      We also have good air defense, but taking into account the ligament - air defense - air force, we are losing hopelessly so far ...
      By the number of infantry and mobilization resource, we yield more than ten times!

      In general, our main hope in the event of a large-scale war with NATO is the Russian spirit and nuclear weapons ... - Of course, an explosive mixture in itself, so thank God they are still afraid of us ...
      1. JACTUS RECTUS
        JACTUS RECTUS 13 May 2014 14: 10
        +1
        Myths, myths, myths ...
  5. gandalf
    gandalf 13 May 2014 13: 34
    +14
    Remember the crosses ... remember. We drew toe on these crosses with calibers 76mm, 85mm ... soldier
  6. tchack
    tchack 13 May 2014 13: 35
    +10
    Well, something like this...
    1. Old Cynic
      Old Cynic 13 May 2014 14: 11
      +6
      Like "swallow - not swallow"?
  7. Roman1970
    Roman1970 13 May 2014 13: 35
    +3
    Moreover, in 1999, the Bundeswehr (represented by the Luftwaffe) for the first time since 1945 entered the battle - in the Balkans, during the NATO aggression against Serbia. Then the German contingents were stationed in Kosovo, in Afghanistan, and they also took part in limited peacekeeping operations in tropical Africa. During these wars, it became clear that the pacifist anti-fascist psychological pressure that German society suffered after the defeat of Nazi Germany was not in vain. Whereas from the middle of the XNUMXth to the middle of the XNUMXth century, German troops were distinguished by their exceptional courage and the highest level of combat training, now it was the Germans who became the vanguard of European corruption and pacifism

    Well, the denazification process was not in vain. Now, such a process would apply to the Nazis in Ukraine ...
    1. Ptah
      Ptah 13 May 2014 13: 41
      +17
      Quote: Roman1970
      Well, the denazification process was not in vain.

      There is still to think what is better ... For men - as warriors, defenders, pupils of children, etc.
      I don't mean "Drang nach Osten". There is a problem of elementary survival. As a nation ...
  8. gandalf
    gandalf 13 May 2014 13: 37
    +7
    I know where to sell:
    The Ukrainian special forces dress up in German uniforms - the Omega and Vega special forces have already been given German production uniforms.

    http://www.vz.ru/news/2014/5/13/686499.html

    I think that together with the form, the staff unanimously forgot the Ukrainian and Russian languages, having learned perfectly English / German / Itelian / Arabic ...
    1. RBLip
      RBLip 13 May 2014 15: 01
      +2
      Quote: gandalf
      Ukrainian special forces dress up in German uniform

      your division ... history repeats ... grandfather did not finish ...
  9. mig31
    mig31 13 May 2014 13: 37
    +6
    The Reichswehr, the Bundeswehr, the Heichswehr ... rolled down.
  10. Poppy
    Poppy 13 May 2014 13: 38
    +6
    broke the nation
    1. wax
      wax 13 May 2014 17: 09
      0
      Nefig was under the Anglo-Saxon tune in the 19th and 20th centuries to dance and drang to rest. Drangali would be nach known, and everything would be tip-top in alliance with Russia. Already the Moon would have been inhabited and Mars would have begun to inhabit. And in America there would be democracy.
      But still no lessons have been learned. Stubborn, however.
  11. pOpolzen
    pOpolzen 13 May 2014 13: 38
    +4
    They have such a fate smile
  12. kopar
    kopar 13 May 2014 13: 40
    +7
    Friedrich and Bismarck in a coffin turn over looking at today's compatriots .....
    1. JACTUS RECTUS
      JACTUS RECTUS 13 May 2014 14: 13
      +3
      The same can be said about the Japanese emperors and generals of the 2nd World War, now Japan is only a vassal ...
    2. asar
      asar 13 May 2014 14: 21
      0
      The ancestors asked not to wake the Russian bear! Oh! did not obey!
      1. asar
        asar 13 May 2014 16: 23
        0
        Friedrich and Bismarck asked ...! laughing
    3. Tiamat2702
      Tiamat2702 13 May 2014 14: 56
      +3
      Quote: copar
      Friedrich and Bismarck in a coffin turn over looking at today's compatriots .....

      Gorchyakov and Stalin too ... and for the same reason
      1. 11111mail.ru
        11111mail.ru 13 May 2014 16: 26
        0
        Quote: Tiamat2702
        Gorchakov and

        What kind of animal?
        1. Tiamat2702
          Tiamat2702 14 May 2014 00: 29
          0
          Quote: 11111mail.ru
          Quote: Tiamat2702
          Gorchakov and

          What kind of animal?
          Here I am a loshara - Gorchakov had to write through "I" (.
          His Serene Highness Prince (since 1871), Aleksandr Mikhailovich Gorchakov - head of the Russian Foreign Ministry under Alexander II, the last Chancellor of the Russian Empire (since 1867). This fellow abruptly Bismarck was. It was he who neutralized the deplorable consequences of the battle for Sevastopol, lost in 1855.
  13. Andrey77
    Andrey77 13 May 2014 13: 41
    0
    The author says one thing, but the facts cite others. We will see:

    The submarine fleet includes four submarines of Project 212 (two more are under construction), which became the first submarines in the world with an air-independent power plant (VNEU). Because of this, the traditional term “diesel (diesel-electric) submarines” has become incorrect, now the term “non-nuclear submarines” has replaced it. In addition to those considered so far the best in the world in its “212-x” class, five decommissioned submarines, pr. 206, are in crap.

    4 (FOUR) best in the world (this is so) DPL against ... against one of our DPL Varshavyanka in the Baltic (DPL "St. Petersburg")
    1. Ptah
      Ptah 13 May 2014 13: 58
      +3
      Quote: Andrey77
      there are five decommissioned submarines of the 206 avenue.

      At the end of last year, not a single one was left.
      Those that were in the best condition had previously planted Columbus.
    2. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets 13 May 2014 14: 10
      +2
      Quote: Andrey77
      4 (FOUR) best in the world (this is so) DPL against ... against one of our DPL Varshavyanka in the Baltic (DPL "St. Petersburg")

      The Baltic has always been difficult for submarines.
      1. Andrey77
        Andrey77 13 May 2014 15: 04
        0
        4 boats against one. On difficult for divers of TVD. The author of the article, explain.
        1. Vladimirets
          Vladimirets 13 May 2014 15: 47
          0
          Quote: Andrey77
          4 boats against one. On difficult for divers of TVD. The author of the article, explain.

          Do you suspect that I am the author of the article? You flatter me. repeat
    3. 290980
      290980 13 May 2014 15: 41
      +1
      The author says one thing, but the facts cite others

      the author is a little off topic, yes, the Bundes is not the same as in the 90s, but the Russian army of the 90s was in what condition ?, everything is fixable ... here, the author did a little shabby technique, everything is OK with us.
    4. alicante11
      alicante11 13 May 2014 15: 55
      +1
      But what do modern submarines with modern methods of dealing with them do in the Baltic, and at the World Cup at the same time? IMHO, for the Hans submarines are intended for the North Sea, and those that are planned in our Black Sea Fleet are for the Mediterranean.
  14. Yellow white
    Yellow white 13 May 2014 13: 43
    +6
    It's time to unite at home, as in monarchical times, to be friends, and not to fight ...
    Whoever remembers the old gas is over, although the one who forgets .. two.
    To collect Europe under the flag of Russia, deduce as a fleet of Natsik p.ed.i.k.a.m.i. and live in peace, and these ... over the puddles ... they themselves will turn up.
  15. Vitaly Anisimov
    Vitaly Anisimov 13 May 2014 13: 44
    +11
    The Germans know how to fight .. and they can quickly restore their defense industry (if that). So you should not relax
    1. Ruswolf
      Ruswolf 13 May 2014 21: 07
      +1
      MIKHAN
      The Germans know how to fight .. and they can quickly restore their defense industry (if that). So you should not relax

      I agree .... But!
      As it was already in history (30 year), only if they spit on the United States and begin to be friends with Russia!
    2. The comment was deleted.
  16. Stiletto
    Stiletto 13 May 2014 13: 44
    +2
    Come on you mock. Just the German leadership understands that in the modern conditions of the Bundeswehr army there is no one to fight. With weaker countries it makes no sense, with stronger ones it is useless (and also deadly). In addition, most modern wars are still waged in the information and economic field, with the rare exception of ritually driving into the stone age of a weakened country the whole shobla of progressive democracies.
    1. Andrey77
      Andrey77 13 May 2014 13: 50
      +4
      Absolutely right. But the German Navy will now crush any state in the Baltic, including us, be it an armed conflict. It is a fact. "The power of the Bundeswehr is in the past" - well, well .. Author, do you think so?
      1. Vladimirets
        Vladimirets 13 May 2014 14: 18
        +3
        Quote: Andrey77
        But the German Navy will now crush any state in the Baltic, including us, be an armed conflict. It is a fact.

        What do you mean by the word "crush"? How before will the ships line up in the battle line and shoot at each other with cannons? The Navy itself rarely fights, and the Baltic is generally a very limited theater, where everything that can be applied will be used. Close coasts, shallow waters and many islands, all this in itself makes it difficult to use the fleet, and if we take into account the state of modern aviation and anti-ship missiles, the phrase "the fleet will crush" is generally puzzling.
        1. Andrey77
          Andrey77 13 May 2014 15: 00
          0
          I mean dominance in the theater. The Baltic is a puddle with dumplings (mines). And we do not have a winning position.
          The second one. The Navy itself is fighting be healthy - but in the ocean. The fact that our Navy rarely, for a number of reasons, did not fight does not cancel the successes of the Japanese and American fleets.
          1. Vladimirets
            Vladimirets 13 May 2014 15: 44
            +1
            Quote: Andrey77
            The fact that our Navy rarely, for a number of reasons, did not fight does not cancel the successes of the Japanese and American fleets.

            Please tell us what major naval battles of the fleet with the fleet happened after WWII.
      2. alicante11
        alicante11 13 May 2014 15: 57
        -1
        Come on, even tactical aviation baptizes the Baltic, far and wide. So if the Germans snoop into the Gulf of Finland, we will cover a sheep from the air like a bull.
  17. MolGro
    MolGro 13 May 2014 13: 47
    +8

    Well, not the "power" of the Americos!
    1. asar
      asar 13 May 2014 14: 41
      +1
      The Yankees have not "converged" directly with a serious adversary for a long time! All with the weak, and even then, mainly from AUGs, and aircraft from distant ground bases! Relaxed, relaxed in bliss!
  18. PRN
    PRN 13 May 2014 13: 48
    +1
    The article is correct. The Geyrope lifestyle does not provide for such a quality as self-sacrifice - the main quality of a warrior, on which all armies of all times and peoples were based.
    1. Andrey77
      Andrey77 13 May 2014 13: 55
      0
      Self-sacrifice is the reckoning of a soldier for the mistakes of a general. If the general plans everything normally, there will be no donations. Geyropeysky way of life and the quality of a warrior - do not intersect at all. 300 Spartans did not hold the defense because they were homosexual? Or if the submarine commander divorced his wife and went on a campaign, will this somehow affect the actions of the submarines?
      1. Raphael_83
        Raphael_83 13 May 2014 17: 09
        0
        Self-sacrifice is not only "putting the one and only life on the altar of Victory", it is also self-denial of any blessings or pampering amenities / luxuries in favor of the Common Good, the willingness to give and serve for the benefit of people, to carry out service on a daily basis without a mandatory reward condition / recognition / gratitude, and not just "take everything from life".
        Think of France in the 39th - the most powerful long-term defense in Europe, Somua tanks, not inferior to the PzkpW-3, the automotive, textile and food industries, human resources, including the mob. reserve that still remembered the 1st World War. And where were all these resources and figures when the mess started? Resistance is not an indicator; their exploits and heroes behind enemy lines, more and more urban legends, cannot be compared with our partisans.
        Or modern European Armed Forces, which seriously take into account the entertainment of military personnel (moreover, we are not talking about a cinema and chess in an officer’s dormitory), the transport accessibility of large cities with the aim of all the same unbridled relaxation in quitting and 20 types of salads with chicken, pork, seafood and without in the canteen for ordinary staff.
        Most modern European armies are not ready to fight either in the correct or in the asymmetric manner traditional for the Russians. Just corny because of moral decay and a well-fed life. What a transfer of hardships and deprivations of military service or service for the good of the Fatherland! In enlightened Europe, there are already almost no such concepts.
        For all that, I am convinced that the Hans themselves, with all the reductions and decompositions, still remain the strongest military force in the European theater, but the force is not the same as at least 20 years ago.
        From SW. hi
  19. desant_doktor
    desant_doktor 13 May 2014 13: 58
    +2
    Comrades, what to expect from the army, where the Minister of Defense is a woman gynecologist! fool
    (For stupid - I really respect colleagues - gynecologists, but in their place.)
  20. Obliterator
    Obliterator 13 May 2014 14: 02
    +14
    But the fire training at the military personnel there is set at a higher level than in our army. He pulled the strap as a signalman in 2010-2011, but little was learned about the handling of weapons. Arrived at the shooting range once every six months, shot his 15 rounds and that's enough. Is it worth mentioning that only those who often had to deal with weapons before the army got into the chest target with 100m were somehow stable. Well, where does it fit? In combat conditions, no one canceled the tasks of protecting the KP.

    And what about the Bundeswehr? The Bundeswehr rifle training system consists of eight modules:
    - Basic training. Among other things, it includes methods of firing a pistol and rifle, eliminating delays and shooting techniques.
    - Shooting at short range. The firing range ranges from 30 to 3 m; change of shop and elimination of delays; actions with an ineffective shot; defeat multiple targets;
    - Countering threats from the flank and rear and shooting in motion.
    - Shooting on guard. Here, the soldier learns the methods of shooting while patrol or guard duty.
    - Shooting single shots. This module is launched after the soldier has completed basic training and the first part of the short-range firing module. Here, the acquired skills are fixed, while shooting is carried out during physical exertion, with limited visibility and in various weather conditions. Shooting is carried out at various distances and partly on moving targets.
    - Shooting at air targets.
    - Special shooting training. Specific shooting techniques that are mastered in units.
    - Special cases. Soldiers are preparing to perform real combat missions. This includes the study of the "Rules for the Use of Military Force."
    - Test the ability to shoot.

    This system is obligatory in general for all military personnel, and not just heterogeneous special forces, like ours. So do not underestimate the enemy so much. To fight not by numbers, but by skill, as Suvorov bequeathed. And then he always advocated that his soldiers shoot as much as possible, and did not spare ammunition during training.
    1. Andrey77
      Andrey77 13 May 2014 14: 15
      +2
      I went to the shooting range every six months, shot my 15 rounds and that's enough. Is it worth mentioning that only those who often had to deal with weapons before the army got into the chest target with 100m were somehow stable.
      =
      Everything is correct. And why is the state crushing the skills of citizens with the use of weapons? In order to shoot from my hunting rifle, I must either give half of my salary to the shooting range, or look for an abandoned shooting range. Okay, I can shoot, and "old people" like me. And the 20-year-olds? If tomorrow is a war, they will have to be trained again - from scratch! 15 rounds is one trip to the shooting range to feel the weapon.
      Is everything really so bad in the troops now?
      1. Obliterator
        Obliterator 13 May 2014 14: 51
        0
        Quote: Andrey77
        Everything is correct. And why is the state crushing the skills of citizens with the use of weapons? In order to shoot from my hunting rifle, I must either give half of my salary to the shooting range, or look for an abandoned shooting range. Okay, I can shoot, and "old people" like me. And the 20-year-olds? If tomorrow is a war, they will have to be trained again - from scratch! 15 rounds is one trip to the shooting range to feel the weapon.
        Is everything really so bad in the troops now?

        Depends on the position of the authorities on this issue. Here we had according to the standards for all units it was necessary to go to firing at least 1 time per month. For the so-called anti-terrorist unit - 1 time in 2 weeks. But in fact it was not fulfilled. Our battalion commander regularly tried to plan a shooting trip, but these trips were almost always canceled for various reasons, most often bureaucratic. An indicative fact is that a couple of months before the arrival of a large commission to check parts from Moscow, people were driven to the shooting range literally every week. But only the commission left - again in the old way.
        1. Andrey77
          Andrey77 13 May 2014 15: 09
          0
          It turns out a problem in the commanders who do not want to take responsibility for the firing.
        2. wax
          wax 13 May 2014 17: 16
          0
          Ammo rifled (you must write off something anyway).
      2. 290980
        290980 13 May 2014 15: 48
        +1
        Everything is correct. And why is the state crushing the skills of citizens with the use of weapons? In order to shoot from my hunting rifle, I must either give half of my salary to the shooting range, or look for an abandoned shooting range. Okay, I can shoot, and "old people" like me. And the 20-year-olds?


        I, at the work of my Nemchig colleagues, pulled into a shooting range and taught shooting, K98 / mosinka plus pistols, in general they are interested, they smell when I say that we have been taught this at school in NVP classes and regret that they don’t have this.
      3. Revolver
        Revolver 14 May 2014 05: 23
        +1
        Quote: Andrey77
        To shoot from my hunting rifle, I must either give half the salary to the shooting gallery

        Are these prices, or is the salary such?
        Entering the shooting gallery costs me about $ 30 (I don’t remember exactly). Ammo separately - about 3 per $ 1, and for 1 run I usually shoot 3-4 boxes, 14 rounds each (if, for example, from a gun, from other barrels, too, the numbers are similar).
        1. Andrey77
          Andrey77 16 May 2014 01: 06
          0
          We have different weapons. I just do not need to shoot closer than 200. I shoot at 250. 7.62x51
  21. mamont5
    mamont5 13 May 2014 14: 03
    +2
    Yes it is. And this is true not only for Germany, but also for other NATO member countries, including and the USA. The military blog is rotting and spreading, although it still shakes with its ambitions, mainly at the suggestion of the Americans, who are struggling to maintain their dominance in the world and want their allies to pay for it.
  22. Giant thought
    Giant thought 13 May 2014 14: 12
    +1
    The Bundeswehr still has power, they can do a lot of things. But in the Baltic they will not be able to crush us in any way, our coastal Onyxes will not allow them to do this, and air-launched cruise missiles will not leave them no chance, starting from our territory.
    1. Andrey77
      Andrey77 13 May 2014 14: 21
      +1
      Topol-M will leave no trace of Germany at all. AND? Will you deny the fact that the training of a private in the Bundeswehr is much better?
  23. Valkh
    Valkh 13 May 2014 14: 23
    -3
    Quote: jjj
    Bundeswehr already - Burgerswehr


    Better - city of IDESFER !!! laughing
    1. asar
      asar 13 May 2014 14: 45
      -2
      Or maybe - Ge.der.kh.ep ?! laughing
      1. Raphael_83
        Raphael_83 13 May 2014 17: 24
        +3
        It is foolish, comrades, to underestimate the enemy. Of course, Burgerswehr is no longer what it used to be, but they will be able to pile on the invaders even now, unlike the frogs, who really knew how to fight the last time under Napoleon, or the macaroni, who sabotaged Hitler and the Balkans all the way. "My Fuhrer, you do not know the Italians. They do not want to fight!" (B. Mussolini, "Liberation" by Yu. Ozerov).
        In addition, the period for the complete depletion of the "memory of ancestors" is rather short by historical standards, the genes required to survive in a hostile environment still remain.
        Plus, despite all the latest perturbations in culture and self-consciousness, the Germans, for the most part, are still quite imperial and strong people, with notions of honor and duty. Where the Spaniards or the French will retreat or skewer, the Hans will carry out orders and their duty, simply because they have not yet had time to finally wean them from the fact that it is "so right / accepted / necessary."

        PS
        And some degenerates like the last "Eurovision miracles" are not an absolute indicator.
  24. VNP1958PVN
    VNP1958PVN 13 May 2014 14: 28
    0
    So our easier!
  25. mojohed2012
    mojohed2012 13 May 2014 14: 30
    -3
    The main thing that has changed in Europe is that the soldiers of Germany and their satellites do not want to die. They have no principles and ideals.
    Nothing to strive for, be a bloody battle tomorrow.
    But Russians have - for the unification of the Russian world and in defense of Russian civilization.
    What a shock might be the start of hostilities in Ukraine if the Russians enter there.
    What will mumble Merkel then?
    1. Andrey77
      Andrey77 13 May 2014 14: 40
      +2
      The training of a soldier in the USSR (Russia) and in Germany is strikingly different. The German soldier will not die for his ideals, but for his comrades. Even if the comrades are generally of other ideals. We are trying and trying to be faithful to the idea of ​​creating an army. But here is the problem - not everyone in the USSR believed in Lenin-Stalin. They brought political workers into the troops - in some places it helped. It was possible to "knock" the political officer - you would return home wearing stripes and badges, but ... the taste will remain.
      1. Aleksey_K
        Aleksey_K 13 May 2014 15: 29
        +1
        It seems that you are lying. Commissars (political commissars) were modern civil war. In the USSR, this position has always been in the troops. And in Lenin and Stalin no one doubted, who doubted, he "served" in Kolyma. And anyone can knock, from a corporal to a division commander. And it looks like you are also a hidden defender of fascism. The German, who attacked the USSR, fought for the destruction of non-Aryans, not for his comrades. In their army, the word "comrade" was supposed to be shot. The kamrads (comrades) in Germany were communists. Either everything is mixed up in your head and you do not understand what you are talking about, or you are deliberately misinterpreting everything, which means you are an ENEMY of Russia.
        1. cyberspace
          cyberspace 13 May 2014 16: 45
          +1
          Quote: Алексей_К
          The comrades (comrades) in Germany were the Communists

          You are a little wrong, the communists in Germany were genosse, and in the Wehrmacht it was the kamrad. In SS units out of order, the treatment between soldiers and officers was kamrad.
          1. Ptah
            Ptah 13 May 2014 21: 38
            0
            Quote: siber
            In parts of the SS out of order, the circulation between soldiers and officers was kamrad.

            The article is about Germans, and they love accuracy. We will try and ...
            Your spelling is more like English. In German, it is written as Whereerad(pl. Kameraden)
            Quote: siber
            communists in germany were genosse

            Not only communists. Belonging to any party in general is called so now.
            It looks like Russian fellow party member.
            One-root - Huguenots (German: eidgenossen)
            Eid - the oath; oath
            Those. comrades bound by oath. Originally applied to Protestant mercenaries during the religious wars in France, Germans or German-speaking Swiss.hi
            1. cyberspace
              cyberspace 14 May 2014 17: 41
              +1
              Quote: Ptah
              In German, it is spelled Kamerad (pl. Kameraden)

              Thanks for the amendment, I have not used the German language since graduation back in 86, I have already safely forgotten everything.
        2. Andrey77
          Andrey77 13 May 2014 17: 25
          +2
          Learn the materiel. As siber said, the appeal (not only in parts of the SS) out of order was kamrad - i.e. friend, comrade.

          And in Lenin and Stalin no one doubted, who doubted, he "served" in Kolyma.
          -
          And again you are wrong. The country is large, not physically transplanted. On the contrary, I had to call from Kolyma. Learn the story.

          In short, YOU ARE A FRIEND OF RUSSIA, and I am her enemy. :)
  26. The comment was deleted.
    1. Andrey77
      Andrey77 13 May 2014 14: 47
      0
      Maybe the author meant the US base in Germany? The author is ay.
  27. Sterlya
    Sterlya 13 May 2014 15: 03
    -2
    The Bundeswehr lost its former power in the 1945th laughing . and why raise it yet?
    1. wasjasibirjac
      wasjasibirjac 13 May 2014 16: 21
      -1
      Quote: Sterlya
      The Bundeswehr lost its former power in the 1945th

      Then there was the Wehrmacht. and they smashed it. The Bundeswehr was created from the remnants of the Wehrmacht.
      1. Sterlya
        Sterlya 14 May 2014 13: 11
        0
        Quote: wasjasibirjac
        Quote: Sterlya
        The Bundeswehr lost its former power in the 1945th

        Then there was the Wehrmacht. and they smashed it. The Bundeswehr was created from the remnants of the Wehrmacht.

        it was a joke, as it were. although you yourself say that the Bundeswehr was created from the remains of the Wehrmacht
    2. Andrey77
      Andrey77 16 May 2014 12: 00
      0
      Wehrmacht, not the Bundeswehr. The Bundeswehr is currently the most efficient army in Europe. Only Belarus can cope with them, with reservations.
  28. noskov
    noskov 13 May 2014 15: 14
    +8
    The article sucks! Agitprop in the truest sense of the word. "Bunds" are one of the most decent warriors. the level of physical fitness of an infantryman, of course, by our standards, is 3 ku. But for an army of this size - in principle, a good general level of training and equipment. Do not forget that the German army is now regional. And it now relies on bloc actions in partnership with others.
    I can say for myself that their parachute and landing battalions are at a decent level. We met at joint exercises. I even have a ranking of the slop of European warriors. so on it "bunds" are not included in the top ten sludge. the palm tree in it now certainly takes Ukraine.
    so it’s not worth the Germans to evaluate so.
    And if we also unite our armies - piz ​​............ !!! The English Channel will be the inland sea of ​​Russia. .
    1. 290980
      290980 13 May 2014 15: 53
      +5
      so it’s not worth the Germans to evaluate so.
      And if we also unite our armies - piz ​​............ !!! The English Channel will be the inland sea of ​​Russia. .


      that’s exactly what such a mood should be, to unite would be generally in color.
  29. Aleksey_K
    Aleksey_K 13 May 2014 15: 19
    0
    Quote: Ptah
    If below 175 cm is unambiguously in "tankers", above 190 - in the fleet ...

    I had a height of 180 cm. And nothing served as a tanker. It was placed everywhere with a mechanic, a loader, a gunner, and a tank commander. We were trained in 100% interchangeability.
  30. Figvam
    Figvam 13 May 2014 15: 36
    +1
    Before their technical collapse, we still have 50 years of hard work.
    A moral strife, yes, the problem of a well-fed nation, we still do not shine))
  31. Aleksey_K
    Aleksey_K 13 May 2014 15: 46
    +4
    The author of the article misleads readers. Germany, after the 2-th World War, it is forbidden to have a full-fledged army, as well as after the 1-th World War. Therefore, there were troops of other countries to strengthen military power against the USSR. After the collapse of the USSR, NATO under existing treaties reduced the number of troops in Germany. The USSR also removed its troops from Europe.
    But the Germans feel infringed, and again Nazism is beginning to protest again. Moreover, the migration of Arabs strengthens Nazi aspirations among the people. The Germans now can’t do anything, even independently take away their (truly German) territories from weak Poland, which doesn’t know how to fight at all.
    But the German spirit is strong in the nation. And the Germans were never cowards, although Russia repeatedly beat them for arrogance. Their spirit is based on the fact that in the territory of Germany, in ancient times, the Slavs lived, who were, after all, conquered. But the Germans mixed with the Slavs. Therefore, they have a very strong fighting spirit and the highest discipline. No other army in the world could have reached Moscow and Stalingrad on the many-thousand-kilometer front.
    If Merkel or anyone else begins the revival of German power, then be a big TROUBLE.
  32. Selevc
    Selevc 13 May 2014 15: 57
    +2
    Germany is not quite a sovereign country - hence all their problems ... The Anglo-Americans will not let the "Teutonic Monster" rise to its full height for the third time ...
    1. Aleksey_K
      Aleksey_K 13 May 2014 16: 27
      +1
      Before World War II, everything was exactly that, but the "Teutonic monster" was reborn, spitting on all countries and prohibitions, because there will always be those who want to incite the Germans against Russia.
      1. Selevc
        Selevc 13 May 2014 18: 07
        0
        Before World War II, there were no occupying forces on the territory of Germany - and now there are bases of the USA and their allies everywhere ... Germans are not even trusted to create military equipment without control from Washington - German heavy vehicles are being tested at US training grounds ... Germany is hopeless lagged behind in aviation and rocket science ...
        Not - hardly in the near future Germany will show something to the rest of the world ...

        Germany is historically very disadvantaged in Europe - 800 years of fragmentation and 80 years of attempts to unite and strengthen and now again 70 years of external governance ... The countries of central Europe have never been long-term centers of power - they were mostly not given to them by their Western neighbors ...
        1. Andrey77
          Andrey77 16 May 2014 12: 05
          0
          Do you prefer to gloss over the merits of the Germans? Sorry, but they fought the USSR and the USA (such good powers) for 4 years. Well 3,5. The enemy must be known and respected. The theoretical sketches of the Germans are space (what is our first rocket based on?), Anti-tank and anti-aircraft "disposable" systems.
  33. leon-iv
    leon-iv 13 May 2014 15: 57
    -2
    Quote: Figvam
    Before their technical collapse, we still have 50 years of hard work.
    A moral strife, yes, the problem of a well-fed nation, we still do not shine))

    And what is their super level?
    1. Aleksey_K
      Aleksey_K 13 May 2014 16: 41
      +3
      leon-iv: "what is their super level?"

      The Germans during World War II surprised many with their developments. The first to create jet (real, not prototypes) aviation, cruise missiles, ballistic missiles, there was even launch into orbit with the goal of deploying solar-reflective weapons. Their tanks had electronic ignition, in Russia it appeared at the end of the 20 century. Prototypes of flying saucers were created. Engines for them are still a mystery to the rest of humanity. Nuclear weapons - they just did not have enough time to use them. Their Zeiss optics was purchased by all countries of the world and much, much more.
      What the Germans can surprise now, only intelligence agencies know. Only fools ... Americans, greedy for profit, divulge publicly their military secrets.
      1. sv68
        sv68 13 May 2014 18: 15
        0
        Alexey-K-please tell me what the Germans tried to put into orbit, and when exactly. And most importantly for flying saucers, I’m scared to disappoint you — their engines are based on ordinary physical processes and were not some kind of fantastic, unexplained device. but they did not go because of unresolved problems with the stabilization of the device in horizontal flight.
      2. 290980
        290980 14 May 2014 02: 34
        +1
        Prototypes of flying saucers were created. Engines for them are still a mystery to the rest of humanity


        I personally met a man who was present during the trials, at that time he was just an apprentice, but he saw the flights personally and told a lot of things and showed.
  34. Corsair0304
    Corsair0304 13 May 2014 16: 00
    +7
    I would not speak so categorically about German soldiers. The German always knew how to fight, and for Russia he was always a serious opponent. The fact that they have less equipment and weapons is correct. Previously, they were preparing to repel tank armada, but now we don't need their territory. Like the resources. That was reduced. What is the basis for the statement that the German is a cowardly soldier? Have you heard about the preparation of mountain rangers? It is unlikely that only pacifists serve there. The article was not impressive.
  35. cerbuk6155
    cerbuk6155 13 May 2014 16: 26
    +2
    German troops are the most powerful in Europe, the British are far from them, and the French too. The German spirit is the strongest in EUROPE, but it has always been in second place, in the first place has always stood, stands and will stand the RUSSIAN SPIRIT. RUSSIAN SPIRIT IS UNBEATABLE. soldier drinks
    1. wax
      wax 13 May 2014 17: 26
      +2
      Russian spirit против Germanic order. And if together? Where would the Anglo-Saxons be? The answer lies on the surface - in the ass.
  36. Kilo-11
    Kilo-11 13 May 2014 17: 04
    +1
    Quote: Алексей_К
    It seems that you are lying. Commissars (political commissars) were modern civil war. In the USSR, this position has always been in the troops. And in Lenin and Stalin no one doubted, who doubted, he "served" in Kolyma. And anyone can knock, from a corporal to a division commander. And it looks like you are also a hidden defender of fascism. The German, who attacked the USSR, fought for the destruction of non-Aryans, not for his comrades. In their army, the word "comrade" was supposed to be shot. The kamrads (comrades) in Germany were communists. Either everything is mixed up in your head and you do not understand what you are talking about, or you are deliberately misinterpreting everything, which means you are an ENEMY of Russia.

    For reference, in the entire NSDAP system, including in the RSHA system, SS troops, etc., the official address of the members of this organization to each other was the word comrade, moreover, in the SS troops ordinary soldiers, non-commissioned officers, officers, and even the generals turned to each other on you, not to be confused with the armed forces by the Nazi Germany. As regards such an ugly legacy of the civil war in Russia as the institute of commissars-political instructors-political workers-deputy for educational work, my subjective opinion is unequivocally dispersed, in the Russian army never was this vicious and very harmful main institute of military workers. So to the dump of these loafers. Who was the combat commander, I think most of them will support me. As for the combat training in the Armed Forces of the FRG, then they will do everything in this order, as well as fighting spirit. The opponent is serious and very literate, and the Minister of Defense is a decisive, intelligent lady, not a PR woman, like ours.
    1. Raphael_83
      Raphael_83 13 May 2014 17: 48
      0
      Well, here it’s not necessary once, I think. My uncle (father's brother), who served in Afghanistan, remembered the political officers of his unit very warmly. He talked about how they competently worked with personnel, maintained morale, in all seriousness (most importantly, systemically) taught military history and gave examples of the heroic heritage of Russian soldiers, went to reconnaissance and pulled the service along with everyone. Although he did not deny that he came across parquet characters with rabid Marxism-Leninism in his head and indecent housekeeping.
  37. silberwolf88
    silberwolf88 13 May 2014 17: 27
    +1
    I think the Germans for many years will remain a serious adversary for any army ... the strength has decreased ... BUT this is replenished if necessary. It's all about a quality approach to warfare ... here I think the Germans are still strong.
  38. mvv
    mvv 13 May 2014 17: 30
    -1
    Akuyut, as I was mistaken about the military might of Germany ... After 10 years, Turkey will force them, with their wild divisions and a fifth column ...
  39. Vyacheslav 64
    Vyacheslav 64 13 May 2014 17: 51
    0
    Quote: asar
    As far as I remember, it was in the GDR that the most powerful ZGSV group was! Maybe not in vain ?!

    GSVG.
  40. b.t.a.
    b.t.a. 13 May 2014 17: 56
    0
    In Europe, there were two types of soldiers who could compete, these are Russian and German soldiers. This has long been recognized. But the Russian soldier can be killed but not possible to defeat. So it was and I hope it will always be so.
  41. Bormental
    Bormental 13 May 2014 18: 02
    0
    Damn, who’s the main one now? Really Poles with gypsies?
  42. vagabo
    vagabo 13 May 2014 18: 17
    0
    And I like the German army!
    This one :)
    http://yandex.ru/video/search?text=%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%8F%20%D0%B3%D0%B4
    %D1%80%20%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE&path=wizard&filmId=US8MeAOEUXI
  43. Vlad Gore
    Vlad Gore 13 May 2014 18: 30
    0
    Quote: asar
    As far as I remember, it was in the GDR that the most powerful ZGSV group was! Maybe not in vain ?!

    Correct GSVG (group of Soviet troops in Germany). After 1989, the ZGV (Western Group of Forces). yes
  44. melnik
    melnik 13 May 2014 18: 35
    0
    Well, I don’t know. Even on the site, ma ... yes, over and over. Americans, ssyk..ny Germans decomposed. I do not like. Taoe we already passed
  45. tomcat117
    tomcat117 13 May 2014 18: 53
    +1
    No need to fall into the lyrics and lull yourself and everyone about the decomposition of the German army.
    You need to know that, as in Russia, Germany at the critical moments of its history also knows how to mobilize all its forces and means, while adding iron discipline, diligence and a binding requirement for everyone.
    The German economy is not the last in Europe; if necessary, it will be able to put everything on a military footing and build up what was lost. The weak point is the dependence on natural resources.
    The German soldier is smart, belligerent and brave. The victory that we got at the cost of incredible losses in the Second World War speaks about this. No wonder Peter I had the best teachers, including the Germans.
    Therefore, it is better to pay more attention to our country and its defenses.
    The best proverb for Russia: "Ivan listens, but eats."
    1. Selevc
      Selevc 13 May 2014 20: 26
      +1
      Germany is now too economically connected - the burden of the EU is getting harder every year ... The Germans are disciplined and hardworking, but the EU is full of countries parasitizing on this (such as Romania, Greece, Portugal and others) ... Let's see how long German patience lasts to pull all this European motley fraternity of Tolerasts ... I think that the maximum is 10 years. .. The most intelligent and cunning type of Britain are already thinking of how to quietly get out without any extra noise and wash themselves off of what they entered ...
  46. Leshka
    Leshka 13 May 2014 20: 08
    +1
    at the moment they don’t need a large army, the most important thing is that it would be well prepared
  47. Russ69
    Russ69 13 May 2014 22: 23
    0
    The other day I read an article about the British Army, things are even sadder there.
    Moreover, both in armament and in the state of personnel itself, drug addiction and alcoholism are flourishing with terrible force.
  48. Tektor
    Tektor 13 May 2014 22: 40
    +2
    To date, the three newest types of Sachsen, four modern types of Brandenburg and 4 + 2 NPL 212 are indeed the most formidable weapons that NATO has at its disposal, if not to take into account nuclear weapons. Daring has not yet been run-in. And this is really a problem, if only our Khibiny will not figure out the surface nuts ... With NPL - we have trouble, because there is no certainty that our anti-submarine systems will be able to detect them first.
  49. yushch
    yushch 15 May 2014 11: 05
    0
    All of them have declined, but let's honestly consider not separately, but all of NATO. They have more tanks and armored vehicles than we do in Russia, though we only consider the European part of the country. So, they reduced it well, but we It’s not worth relaxing.
    1. Andrey77
      Andrey77 16 May 2014 12: 13
      0
      What is the question? Techniques to rivet? If you put the country in wartime mode, with modern technology, we rivet one or two. You need 100 thousand tanks - not a problem, just what will you do with them in 5 years? Passed already.