Russia will receive the French "Mistral"

As the lenta.ru, 8 in May, a source in the French government announced that France would adhere to the agreed terms of supplying Russia with two Mistral helicopter carriers.

Agence France-Presse notes that Russia will receive the first ship Vladivostok in October 2014, and the second - Sevastopol - will be part of the Black Sea fleet in 2015 year.

Information Agency “Russia's Arms” notes that the US authorities have expressed concerns about this deal. In particular, Victoria Nuland, US Assistant Secretary of State for European Affairs, said that Washington is still against the supply of Mistral to the Russian Federation.

It is worth noting that, at the request of the Russian side, a number of changes were made to the French draft.

In particular, the composition of the steel alloys for the hull was changed to ice class, which allows the use of ships in northern latitudes. The height of the UDC was also increased, since the internal docks of the ship were converted for mooring large-sized helicopters such as the Ka-52K and Ka-28. The design of the ship provided space to accommodate additional weapons. Instead of the outdated Syracuse satellite communications system, the Russian Mistral will receive the domestic Centaurus system.

Earlier it was also reported that Russia promised to present serious penalties to the French side in case of refusal to build helicopter carriers. Recall that the contract for the supply of "Mistral" was signed in 2011 year. Its amount exceeds 1 billion dollars.

Comments

[TAMERLAN 7]

I do not know: rejoice or sad?

[Aliv]

This is one of the eggs we hold France for. I think it's worth it. Well done Serdyukov! I saw suk in the root!

[Little Muck]

Quote: Aliv

This is one of the eggs we hold France for.

As the saying goes: Your shirt is closer to the body.
The United States, of course, is allies, but money apart.
It's nice to hear a squabble in the camp of enemies.

[avg]

Quote: Little Muck

As the saying goes: Your shirt is closer to the body.
The United States, of course, is allies, but money apart.
It's nice to hear a squabble in the camp of enemies.

It is necessary not to rush with acceptance, carefully eliminate the flaws. And also to hint to the French that such good ships, you could order 5 more. To control the Northern Sea Route.
In general, "I'll kiss you. Later. If you want."

[Gronsky]

Quote: avg

It is necessary not to rush with acceptance, carefully eliminate the flaws.

Yes, and check brutally carefully, for the installation of hidden bugs and hardware or software ability to interfere with the ship's systems. For me personally, this fact causes contradictory feelings, on the one hand, it is good that there will be replenishment of the ship's personnel, on the other hand, well, as it is "nekomelfo" from enemies to buy military equipment. Okay, how it will be.

[Gluxar_]

Quote: Little Muck

As the saying goes: Your shirt is closer to the body.
The United States, of course, is allies, but money apart.
It's nice to hear a squabble in the camp of enemies.

You just need to add a little oil to the fire. Let their pedoliberalism gnaw at their shepherds.

[mamont5]

Quote: Aliv

Well done Serdyukov! I saw suk in the root!

And he is here what edge? The Mistral Supply Agreement was purely political and concluded at a higher level.

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Quote: Aliv

This is one of the eggs we hold France for. I think it's worth it. Well done Serdyukov! I saw suk in the root!

yeah ... it would be better if they built six skr with this money.

[Lyubimov]

Probably for this he was amnestied, he successfully shit

[Blondy]

Serdyukov, of course, in the letter M, but by no means well done - with this money something more worthwhile could be built, and not hold on to French eggs. They will strangle themselves for this money, but they will not announce sanctions. Although it would be better for us if they announced and paid the penalty.

[philip]

Moreover, the galosh is generally shitty. Already on the Black Sea, turntables and so where it will fly, and in the Far East TU-95

[Artem1967]

For example, they will not reach the Bosphorus. If only one way. And with Mistrals it's easy! In principle, the latest helicopter docks will definitely not be superfluous either on the Black Sea or in the Sea of ​​Japan. The possibilities for amphibious operations are increasing dramatically. Yes, and a good wedge between the United States and France! Let them squabble.

[Aljavad]

And with Mistrals it's easy!

"Plus" to you! Not only

on black

but in the Mediterranean and adjacent.
A useful thing in the household. Such a "piece of Russia" in any point of the World Ocean needed today. From the Mistral, if necessary, you can twist the muzzle to anyone, and show your fist. And lend a helping hand.

[Aljavad]

You are a plus, but

Matured

spelled "mature".
something like that.
The rest is true!

[afire]

Rejoice, there is common sense - making a profit.

[Santa Fe]

Quote: afire

Rejoice, there is common sense - making a profit.

What is the argument about?
Why so much noise?

The Mistral is the cheapest ship in its class. Transaction value - $ 1,6 billion for both ships, moreover, at least 20% of the work is carried out at domestic shipyards

An insignificant amount by the standards of modern shipbuilding. For comparison, one American Aegis destroyer costs 2,2 billion.

[Good cat]

According to some experts, on this site, at our shipyards for this amount it was possible to build 4 ships

[g1v2]

We do not have a school for the construction of such BDK ships; this is completely different. We would create our project for about 5 years and taking into account that we don’t have experience in the construction of just such ships in the project, there would probably be flaws. Ready ships we would get after 2020. I myself am a designer by training, although not a military industrial complex, and I can say that from scratch it is difficult and expensive to create such a project without the experience of designing and building a ship of this type. Plus, the cost of designing and building such a ship will increase significantly. Ours really offered to build such a ship, but it was not our project, but the Korean one is the same, but the Korean project. The most important thing here is not the ships themselves, but the project, documentation, personnel training and NATO management systems, which the Franks did not agree to set up for a long time. Most importantly, these ships will become the zero point for our school of building such ships, and the following ships will be built by us and according to our project, which will be developed based on the experience of building and operating the Mistral. Another plus is that, as far as I know, the most important thing is that we needed to - we got the documentation for the project, even if the francs broke the contract, we got what we needed, and change their project so that they could not sue Theft of int property for experienced designers is already a snap. By the way, if the Franks break the contract, then we’ll also beat off the grandmothers. In fact, we bought for money what we would have to strain intelligence earlier. And the Americans are doing the same, they in Ukraine bought several samples of everything that Ukrainians did for our army — samples of equipment and components.

[Stalevar]

That's right, dear colleague! We need the Mistral. Like it or not, we need it. And from the point of view of mastering new technologies, and from the point of view of leverage over the leadership of France.

[avt]

Quote: Good cat

According to some experts, on this site, at our shipyards for this amount it was possible to build 4 ships

And these "appraisers" experts "do not say anything about" Ivan Gren "? I don’t taste the guys, we already have a whole series of "Grenovs" afloat? Stop suffering Mui Ne! We have a 1966 BDK afloat!

[Anisim1977]

Let's not forget - ships are needed now, they are missing now, shipyards are loaded to capacity, a couple of big scarecrows will not hurt.

[Aljavad]

shipyards loaded to capacity

I wish the Crimean shipyards could be loaded. Guys almost cry, they want to work.

[avt]

Quote: Aljavad

That would be more Crimean shipyards load

Already! The Severomorskaya group will be repaired, the Levchenko BOD, it seems, has already been brought to Sevastopol for repairs!

[jjj]

Well at least rebuilt for attack helicopters. Now the steamer can be useful

[Simon]

Yes, it will also swim in the northern regions - the North is our friends! The Americans and Canadians will wash themselves.

[ZSP]

That's the same Victoria Nuland with its tail on the floor and pounding ... already raises the dust.

[Aljavad]

tail on the floor and pounding ... already dust raises

But can she be so fierce?

[Ptah]

You are an adult. Probably tactful ...
Henceforth, choose expressions. Ask!

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Quote: jjj

Well at least rebuilt for attack helicopters. Now the steamer can be useful

what? Will we also buy an escort squadron?

[g1v2]

A helicopter carrier is not an aircraft carrier and does not need an escort squadron. In fact, this is something between an aircraft carrier and a BDK, and in the case of a mobile military base, which, if necessary, can be adjusted to the place where we need to ensure a military presence. For example, in the Arctic or in South America. In addition, a moratorium on the industrial development of the Antarctic expires in 2025, and it seems we want to participate in its development. Such a ship is very good at controlling the situation in such cases. In principle, one could do without it, but it is more convenient. As for its vulnerability without escort ships, well, this is a ship for local wars and coastal control, and not for global wars. The debate about whether such a ship is needed or not will continue to go on, but I believe that it is quite convenient and the money was well spent.

[Anisim1977]

If the United States yells - do not sell - then it is useful to us.
Take and point.

[Lord of the Sith]

I hope the new six DZPL promised for the Black Sea Fleet will bear the names Donetsk and Lugansk, and the rest if we have time in time, Odessa, Kharkov, Kherson, Nikolaev.

[tnship2]

Ha! Of course, rejoice! Put a couple of three Mistrals closer to Alaska, at a throwing distance. Stuff it with helicopters and DShRs. It’ll be a good argument in debate. A couple of bases on the islands. Here it will be easier to defend our point of view. that is.

[TurboSloN]

In any case, rejoice, because our fleet RECEIVES new ships, not promises. This is in any case better than the same billions settled on the offshore accounts of obese bureaucrats.

[Validator]

Anyone who spoke with the French in life did not doubt this decision for a second. These mean people for an extra euro will strangle themselves, but here it’s going to billions

[Letun]

Quote: TAMERLAN 7

I do not know: rejoice or sad?

Rejoicing that the crank in the letter M Taburetkin was not allowed to buy tanks in Germany. Now the show would be ...

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: TAMERLAN 7

I do not know: rejoice or sad?

Deep on the drum, whether he will be beaten or not. France is still that prostitute, she will change her mind five times.

[Russian jacket]

But how to say, everyone considers money. So they’ll put it so that the penalty is not paid ...

[Tersky]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

France is still that prostitute, she will change her mind five times.

Sasha, the prostitute does not change opinions, she stupidly fulfills what she was paid for ..

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Tersky

Sasha, a prostitute does not change opinions

Even as it changes, especially France.

[Ptah]

Greetings, Sasha !!!

Quote: Alexander Romanov

Even as it changes

And yet, the simplicity of opinion does not change ...
Changes poses, changes tax, even changes the form of payment, but OPINIONS - no.
Why does she need "opinions"? They pay for sexual satisfaction, and no one will ask for "opinions" ...

[xenod55]

It is worth rejoicing, even just because the French did not follow the lead of the staff. As the saying goes: "Your shirt is closer to your body." Although "US Assistant Secretary of State for European Affairs Victoria Nuland said that Washington is still against the supply of Mistrals to Russia." And this tendency is seen more and more clearly in European business.

[Gomunkul]

It’s worth rejoicing, even just because the French did not go about the staffers.

As I.A. said Krylov
"When there is no agreement in the comrades,
In the mood their business will not go,
And nothing will come out of him, only flour. "
It is necessary to beat the enemy with his own weapon, i.e. destroy the alliance by playing on its internal contradictions.

[Simon]

Ah, I think we should be happy. Amer’s sanctions did not work in France, although the Americans really wanted this.

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Quote: TAMERLAN 7

I do not know: rejoice or sad?

neither one nor the other ... take it for granted with Chinese wisdom. there is nowhere to put these pots anyway, so they fulfill the "order" ....

[kelevra]

And grieve and rejoice! Sad: because the cattle Serdyukov drove us into this contract with his friend Medvedev. Rejoice: because we need such ships, there is only one aircraft carrier, and this can be used to transport equipment in case of emergency. Our helicopters have great firepower, so the advantage will also be that Mistral will be able to transfer helicopters as close as possible to a certain point in the sea and the coast! Saving time and fuel for helicopters is already on the face. I think our sailors can find them worthy use!

[Gluxar_]

Quote: TAMERLAN 7

I do not know: rejoice or sad?

Of course, rejoice, but you also need to derive benefit. It is necessary to raise a fuss among the "liberal crowd" within Europe itself. Blame the French president for "sponsoring" Russia and supporting the Russians' course of militarism and stuff like that.
France is pressed against the wall, cancellation of the contract will hit them heavily with penalties.
Do these ships need Russia? Are needed. Vitally necessary? I think not. Will we get a lot by getting them? Yes, the amount is not that big. We will lose a lot if we do not get it? No, we’ll not lose anything at all, we will redistribute resources more adequately to the current military-political situation.

One thing is obvious, any sources can and should be used for their own purposes. Including strike at the positions of Hollande.

[Gagarin]

Once again proves that for the West MONEY IS ABOVE ALL.

[bulvas]

Quote: Gagarin

Once again proves that for the West MONEY IS ABOVE ALL.

Now for everyone, money is above all.

If it weren’t for money, they would have long ago brought in all evil spirits from Ukraine, and Transnistria would have been seized. And the Romanians would not dare to close the sky for a government board.

Without money, nowhere, at all times it was.

The important thing is that in Russia there is still something other than money that remains valuable

[ArhipenkoAndrey]

Yes, the West has one faithful ally - money, which regularly fails them.

[goland72]

It is necessary to invite the US authorities to outbid them along with penalties.

[Kornilovets]

On the one hand, it seems like they paid, the funds have already been spent, but it would be better to build something of your own, 2 - 3 destroyers, 5 - 7 frigates, than this miracle is judo ...

[Alez]

All the same, the capitalist will hang himself on a rope, which he himself will sell (V.I. Lenin). Sanctions are sanctions, and money apart. Mr. Taburetkin has already received kickbacks, now how will you return kickbacks. The French troughs of the French army itself are not needed, and then there are fines. The trouble is, tolerant France is selling weapons to Putin’s authoritarian regime.

[capitalist]

This is nonsense. I will not hang myself on the rope I sold .. unless I also sell soap))

[Associate Professor]

Quote: Capitalist

This is nonsense. I will not hang myself on the rope I sold .. unless I also sell soap))

Lenin did not say that. He said that we would hang the capitalists on a rope that they would sell to us.

[Zymran]

Well, sanctions are sanctions, but if the money is paid, and Mistral is not given, then it will be just scam.

[Giant thought]

In any case, the French do not want to pay fines, mattresses will not reimburse them for these costs. And the image will be hit terribly by someone who wants to get in touch with a country that violates its obligations, so in the future the French may miss many orders, and this is again a blow to their economy.

[VNP1958PVN]

Not very upset, but sorry, paid!

[Alexey N]

Russia will receive the French "Mistral"

In the current situation, this is direct evidence that the mystery contract is more beneficial to NATO France than Russia. It also turned out that for the money, they themselves could have built several helicopter carriers.
Two (or more) monuments of corruption or idiocy (which is unlikely).

[capitalist]

"It also became clear that for this money, they themselves could build several helicopter carriers." Where did you find out? )

We have BDK Ivan Gren, which is 4 times smaller than Mistral for 10 years now ..
Frigate Gorshkov - 8 years (and the end and the edge are not visible)

And here for 3 years we got excellent (whatever you say) and VERY needed right now ships. Our shipyards for such a period would never have surrendered such ships .. yes, they probably would not have even managed to design them in 3 years.
And about the price, the grandmother said in two, where it’s cheaper.
According to rumors, the Stereguschiy type corvettes cost us almost 400 million bucks a piece in the building .. Corvette! And here for the price of 4 corvettes - 2 BDK plus technology.

[Alexey N]

Where did you find out? )

Search the Internet if interested. The official stated.

And about the time lost in the 90s technology, about the effective manager Serdyukov, etc. I’ve already heard and argue tired.

[TAMERLAN 7]

Quote: Capitalist

And here for the price of 4 corvettes - 2 BDK plus technology.

With technology bummer. At first they said 2 more Mistrals to buy, but now they may refuse altogether. At least in those technologies that we are really interested in.

A source close to the main headquarters of the Navy confirmed to the newspaper that Vladivostok would be equipped with domestic communications. Earlier it was reported that the ship will receive the French satellite communications system "Syracuse" (Syracuse).

According to a Izvestia source, “it became clear that France could only install outdated electronics, and it was decided to use domestic equipment. Moreover, the installation of foreign equipment can lead to information leaks. ”

[strannik595]

friendship is friendship, and tobacco apart - Obama heard in the receiver

[kopar]

Sanctions are sanctions, and the "animal grin of capitalism" is more important. Profit, profit, and again profit.

[Morgan]

Who knows, do these irons have any combat value at all, or is it just another drink?

[capitalist]

possess. we do not have and did not have ships of this class. and from the BDK only Polish ships built 30 years ago.

otherwise the Americans would not be so much against their purchase by us. in fact, the contract at one time was very difficult, according to rumors, the French were even heavily pressured before signing.

This is the ship of the flagship landing group. Tasks - headquarters ship, providing airborne landing support, over-the-horizon landing of troops. Ideally, to have 1 such in each fleet, and in the Pacific Fleet and 2 would not hurt.
They would have to build 10 modern direct landing landing gears for them, like the same Gren, but more modern ... Ivan Gren is still an old Soviet project - albeit doped with various improvers

[Morgan]

His APPOINTMENT I know the question of his VALUE as a weapon. It is known that, for example, because of the high freeboard, he has a lot of sailing and seaworthiness in question. Is the OFFICIAL class weapon useful, but dubious from the point of view of operation (including in wartime)? That is the question, not the purpose. In other words - was the project worth the money?

[Anisim1977]

Let him swim in the Mediterranean - near Syria, they won’t attack, and he will see a flag from such a colossus. We’ll be on the drum, and the Syrians will be pleased.

[Aljavad]

(including in wartime)

And what kind of "wartime" do you want? With the breakthroughs of tank armies, art duels of battleship squadrons and dogfight of fighters? So this will no longer be, as well as dashing cavalry attacks.
The war is DIFFERENT all the time. For example - Operation "Polite People". or Operation Perestroika in the late 1980s.
About operation read comments g1v2.
In principle, we did not have such a type of ships and we are not able to operate them. Like to design. Let’s learn on the Mistrals - we will build our own on their experience - super-duper.

[Lyubimov]

It also seems to me that it doesn’t sound very powerful - a combat helicopter carrier, everything is doubtful somehow. I understand, in civilian life or in the Ministry of Emergencies, it’s a very useful thing, but for the army - well, I don’t even know. A healthy barge with helicopters, flight ranges are small, the speed of movement of the barge is small, like a reconnaissance vessel is not good, you can’t put serious missiles, and why are they needed !? Can someone explain who is more up-to-date in such matters !?

[ar-ren]

Quote: Lyubimov

and why are they needed !? Can someone explain who is more up-to-date in such matters !?

1. The flagship of the fleet;
2. Landing ship;
3. Does not require a direct approach to the shore to land an assault force;
4. The actual analogue of modern landing ships around the world.

[nvv]

FOR GREEN PEOPLE. Not a joke. For PMCs.



It also seems to me that it doesn’t sound very powerful - a combat helicopter carrier, everything is doubtful somehow. I understand, in civilian life or in the Ministry of Emergencies, it’s a very useful thing, but for the army - well, I don’t even know. A healthy barge with helicopters, flight ranges are small, the speed of movement of the barge is small, like a reconnaissance vessel is not good, you can’t put serious missiles, and why are they needed !? Can someone explain who is more up-to-date in such matters !?

[series]

It is supposed to me that these two boats will be the first and last purchases from the paddlers, the rest, of a similar class, will already be 100% domestic, as we needed technologies that were profane in the 90s ...

[dorz]

More recently, there was information that together
with "hardware" Russia buys some software
open source software for communication and interaction
types of troops and data processing. This system stands on
armed with NATO, and the Russians managed to kill the French
sell this system, and the French had to make excuses
before amers, like a mistral - it's just
iron boxes for the transport of goods.

[Kornilovets]

It seemed like it was infa that one would go to the Black Sea Fleet, where would such a huge moor be moored, or would he hang out at the raid? and fuel, and other source codes ...?

[ar-ren]

It won’t work. This is an aircraft carrier, and according to the Montreux doctrine, the Bosphorus will not be missed.

[Aljavad]

He will be assigned to the Black Sea Fleet, and serve - SOUTHERN,

[x.andvlad]

Well, that's nice. The dog barks, and the caravan goes on. For Russia, they will not be redundant.

[Corsair0304]

Q.E.D. All these squeals and squeals about economic sanctions and the breakdown of military cooperation with Russia by the EU are nothing more than squeals and squeals. We push slowly and push our interests. I wonder how Turkey will let the Sevastopol pass through its straits? After all, this is a direct and obvious threat to them, the presence of a ship of this class in the immediate vicinity of their territorial waters, if anything.
Curious, curious ....

[GRune]

Why is our country this UG ??

[Simon]

At first, many thought the same thing, but now it will definitely come in handy!

[GRune]

Useful for what ?? What is so unique about it ?? Our shipbuilders would have built such squalor themselves! Moreover, our ships would be formidable and beautiful!

[capitalist]

would not be built. there is a lot of bragging from our "shipbuilders", but how it comes down to it is that for 8 years the frigate cannot pass

[ar-ren]

Quote: GRune

Our shipbuilders would have built such squalor themselves!

Ivan Gren BDK has been under construction for 12 years, 70% readiness, half the amount of the contract for two Mistrals has been spent. At the same time, the Gren displacement is 25% of one Mistral!

[jayich]

But in no way Iskander with special warhead calmly gets from the territory of Crimea. swallow and ask for more supplements

[dorz]

As Lenin said: capitalists are ready to sell us a rope
on which we hang them.

[Kornilovets]

Large landing helicopter carrier "Vladivostok".

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%92%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%B2%D0%BE%D1%81%D1
%82%D0%BE%D0%BA_%28%D0%BA%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B1%D0%BB%D1%8C%29

Main characteristics
Standard displacement - 16 500 tons,
full - 21 300 tons,
ultimate - 32 tons
Length 199 m
Width 32 m
Height 64,3 m
Precipitation 6,3 m
Engines 3 of the Värtsilä diesel generator 16V32 (6,2 MW),
1 Värtsilä diesel generator 18V200 (3,3 MW),
2 × Azipoda Alstom Mermaid (7 MW)
Power 20 400 l. with. (15 MW)
Mover 2
Speed ​​18,8 knots (34,8 km / h)
Cruising range 10 800 km (5800 miles) at 18 knots (33 km / h),
19 km (800 miles) at 10 knots (700 km / h)
The autonomy of swimming 30 day
The crew of 160 people (20 officers) + 450 people (900 people with a short transition) of the Marine Corps.

Armament -Aviation.

The UDC air wing will comprise up to 30 Ka-52 Alligator helicopters (received the Ka-52K index, a two-seat modification of the Black Shark helicopter adapted to sea basing) and Ka-29 transport and combat helicopters. The number of helicopters in the UDC air wing of one type or another may vary depending on the task.

Landing

Landing craft: 4 landing craft of project 11770 Chamois or 2 landing craft of project 21280 Dugong. Perhaps 1 MDKVP project 12322.

Artillery

Artillery weapons - two AK-30M six-barrel 630-mm mounts (in the bow and aft) and two bending mounts with Igla MANPADS

Shock

Impact weapons: the possibility of equipping new helicopter carriers with Club-K complex containers is being considered.

Crew

The formation of the crews of the new Russian universal landing ships Vladivostok and Sevastopol has already begun.

In December 2013, the crew of Vladivostok arrived in St. Petersburg and began training [4]. Classes will be held in more than 20 types of specialties in St. Petersburg, Pushkin, Peterhof, Kronstadt and Vyborg.

19.02.2014/5/XNUMX training of the Vladivostok crew by French specialists began [XNUMX].

The arrival of Russian sailors at the port of Saint-Nazaire is scheduled for 1.6.2014. They will be trained in the management and maintenance of the DVKD. The crews will arrive in France on board the training ship Smolny, which will also serve as a floating barracks for the crews until autumn. [6]

According to a report dated 6.5.2014, a group of Russian officers arrived in Saint-Nazaire a month before the arrival of the crews of two UDC "Vladivostok" and "Sevastopol", consisting of 400 sailors. Both crews will stay in France during the summer and then will make the transition on the first ship "Vladivostok" from Saint-Nazaire to Kronstadt.

[Wiruz]

Have you discovered Wikipedia?

[ARS56]

I would also like to see a list of consumables, their price and the possibility of replacing them with domestic counterparts (if any) without losing the warranty on engines and vessels in general. I am afraid that I will have to create special supply ships with the NATO standard or purchase them from France.
Would dispel fears.

[rugor]

A rare case when I agree with the American position! Nafig they did not flatten us, you need to load your shipyards.

[Wiruz]

Well, the next two (if any) will be built at the Baltic Shipyard. And at the expense of their shipyards ... it's sad to admit, but they won the "Admiral Gorshkoy" (22350) when they were lowered into the water, and he walks? No. "Ivan Gren" is also long-term construction. Speaking of birds, why "Ivan Gren" and not "Vice Admiral Gren"? Nobody knows?

[Ptah]

Quote: Wiruz

why "Ivan Gren" and not "Vice-Admiral Gren"?

Maybe to "add Russianness" by mentioning the name "Ivan"?
Without him, it sounded like a "German manner" ...
IMHO ...

[Simon]

When Crimea was not part of Russia, the shipyards were all loaded, well, now Crimean shipyards will probably be loaded.

[GRune]

At least one thinks ...

[Orc-xnumx]

And what about the helicopters for the Mistrals?

[ARS56]

No problems.
Under our serial helicopters they raised the deck of Misral. The center of mass became higher, which led to a deterioration in the stability of the vessel. Draw your own conclusions.

[andj61]

Quote: ARS56

Under our serial helicopters they raised the deck of Misral. The center of mass became higher, which led to a deterioration in the stability of the vessel. Draw your own conclusions.

From Wiki:

The height of the hangar allows you to place the Russian Ka-27, Ka-29 and Ka-52K helicopters on the hangar deck, which was confirmed during the visit of the Mistral UDC to St. Petersburg during test helicopter landings on the deck. However, the opening in the elevator area is not high enough for the Ka-29 and will be increased

Is the height of the deck really increasing due to the increase in the height of the openings in the elevator area? After all, there are various technical solutions that can lead to increased stability compared to the original version.
I think that these issues should nevertheless be covered by specialists.
Another thing is surprising: all helicopters offered for use have been manufactured for a long time - except for the Ka-52K, which represents a further development of the Ka-50 model. A promising helicopter (type Ka-90, Ka-92) has not yet been created, although as early as 2007 there was a concept.
As if helicopters were not outdated even before Mistral was adopted.

[Ptah]

Quote: ARS56

resulting in a deterioration in the stability of the vessel

... which is corrected by BALLASTING.
And if you look more extensively, then:
Increased windage.
Deadweight increase.
Manageability Change.
Too lazy to list. A lot of changes. I think that since they took such a step, they are not critical and are covered by increased opportunities and expanding the range of tasks.

That deck would be different. As on the Spaniard "Juan Carlos". With the ability to take off light aircraft ...

[Wiruz]

Questions to knowledgeable people:
1) Of the anti-aircraft guns on Ala-Mistral there will be only Bend and AK-630? Not a little?
2) Somehow there was information that a "Caliber" with a launch range of up to 2000 km is being made especially for Ash and Mistrals (!). Nobody heard anything like it?

[Dart2027]

1) The landing ship is not a destroyer or a cruiser.
2) There are several types of missiles of different ranges.

[vch62388]

Gentlemen! Tell a completely non-sea person why they wrote off the Rogovs (pr. 1174), but left not only the Polish pr. 775, but also, in part, the ancient Soviet pr. 1171?

[capitalist]

Because, despite the relative freshness, these ships rotted in raids in the 90s .. without repair and maintenance .. well, you see the old Tapirs, somehow they contained the money
Well, plus the concept itself is outdated. Well, such large direct landing ships are not needed now.

[capex1]

This is the result of all our Western "partners" after the Crimean yells !!! Money rules this Western world - money and debauchery (from Eurovision, and the blue lobby).

[ARS56]

Quote: Corsair0304

... I wonder how Turkey will let the Sevastopol pass through its straits? After all, this is a direct and obvious threat to them, the presence of a ship of this class in the immediate vicinity of their territorial waters, if anything ...

According to the Montreux Convention.
The order of passage through the Black Sea straits of warships is regulated by articles 8-22 of the Convention. From appendix IV to the Convention on the regime of straits, it can be seen that ships of any class (i.e., aircraft carriers) can be in the fleets of the Black Sea states. At the time of passage of the straits, it is forbidden to perform flights of aircraft on board ships.
The Montreux Convention was concluded in 1936 for 20 years and is automatically extended for the next 20 years, if two years before the expiration of the validity period there are no comments from the states that have signed it. The Montreux Convention continues to operate at the present time.

[ar-ren]

Black Sea powers can hold capital ships. Carriers do not belong to capital ships. Therefore, Turkey will not miss aircraft carriers. Mistral created for aviation. So the Bosphorus will not pass.

[Andrey44]

Quote: TAMERLAN 7

I do not know: rejoice or sad?

At least the documentation for the construction of the "hardware" has been received. They will not give away electronics anyway, or give it away with a "catch". If Rogozin and Shoigu have an understanding of the absurdity of this purchase, then mb. pay attention to our shipyards. There are still specialists and not everything has been pilfered in the vastness of the former USSR. For example, in Tatarstan, the plant produces ultra-modern boats and frigates for the Caspian Sea - there are no equal! Is it really impossible to restore the most powerful shipyards of the Northern and Pacific, and now the Black Sea fleets? Can!!!

[Lone gunman]

Who would have doubted, and then you look and the tricolor over the elven tower will develop, if everything goes like this ...))), but the fact that it is cheaper than the Aegis destroyer, well, where is the battle ship, and where is the pleasure-hospital ship with helicopters, he does not even reach a full-fledged helicopter carrier ("glory" to Serdyukov), you need to understand Yoshkin's cat ...

[northern]

As if someone doubted that large Western capital would support sanctions against the Russian Federation?
The economies of the world are so tied to each other that it will simply not work out to sanction someone one specifically.

[Tamod]

our shipyards are loaded, we can’t unload them in any way. There were claims to the Mistrals that they would have no place to go, but in light of the construction of a new canal in South America, you need to understand that this is work for the Mistral. And not only this. And also regarding the loading of shipyards, 2 more of these ships will be built entirely in Russia. If we still add here the technologies that the country will receive along with the ships, then we can understand that the money was given not in vain. And if you still imagine how much time and money it would take to design and build such ships from scratch in Russia, then absolutely.

[GRune]

What technologies, well, at least one adherent of French shipbuilding, lay out a list of these mysterious technologies that have no analogues in Russia!

[290980]

What technologies, well, at least one adherent of French shipbuilding, lay out a list of these mysterious technologies that have no analogues in Russia!

yes ktozh you will lay out such an info ?, I’ll just say that your orders are scattered across Europe, it’s very bad to see your staff.

[ar-ren]

Quote: GRune

What technologies, well, at least one adherent of French shipbuilding, lay out a list of these mysterious technologies that have no analogues in Russia!

The project of the ship itself is its technology.

[Aljavad]

What technologies, well, at least one adherent of French shipbuilding, lay out a list of these mysterious technologies that have no analogues in Russia!

Here is an analogy.
Brazil tolerably makes rockets for the MLRS. Where are her space rockets? Explode at launch.
Greeks back in the 60s. BTR was built in series. Where are their tanks? There are none of them.
Neither the Russian Empire nor the USSR have ever built landing helicopter carrier docks. Even if we can do everything separately (landing ships, helicopter carriers of anti-aircraft defense, etc., and is any of their creators alive?), It’s not a fact that an sensible project will immediately turn out. In the little things you can get confused and mess up - there is no experience.

[Strashila]

Some losses ...

[Rubmolot]

The Russian world is celebrating the return of Crimea; the West cannot do anything about it - yes, except for the strengthening of sanctions.

Sanctions??!
Isn't that an empty gesture?
Will these "sanctions" really harm Russia?

Economic sanctions are double-edged weapons. Like a bear hug. It is especially dangerous when you lower the bear out of its arms ...

When the French threaten Russia by not supplying Mistral class landing ships, to whom will this move hurt more? Russia?

Maybe, but only for a while. On the other hand, this step will significantly reduce the financing of the French shipyard. Many hundreds or even thousands of French workers will lose their jobs; the government will have to pay unemployment money. What do the French socialists do? What do unions associated in Le Gauche do?

The French army will not buy these boats. Why and? Will there be a war in Africa and it will be necessary to accidentally land in Marrakech? No.
The United States will not buy these ships either. Against who? Maybe they are planning another Bay of Pigs? The USA has its own boats. Who else needs to buy an amphibious landing craft?
China might find the ship useful for landing in Taiwan, or in the "disputed" islands in the South China Sea.

Will France sell a ship below cost to China? If so, the United States will not say thank you to France.

[Antibrim]

Th for nonsense) of course they will deliver them to us, because the contract, and in which case the penalty will be such that the French will pay!

[Tavrica]

In extreme cases, it can be used as a ferry at the Kerch crossing

[Vlad Gore]

Victoria Nuland said that Washington is still against the supply of Mistral to the Russian Federation.

But Baba Yaga is against.

[qwertynsan]

Quote: goland72

It is necessary to invite the US authorities to outbid them along with penalties.

yeah and return to the homeland two watermelons))))

[volot-voin]

Quote: Aliv

I think it's worth it. Well done Serdyukov!

What is he doing well? What left Russian workers unemployed? For kickbacks I gave the order to French shipbuilders? Then we will buy spare parts for helicopter carriers from the paddling pools for rabid grandmothers. Some other cunning spy equipment will be installed there. which they will not immediately find, 100%.
I don’t know about you, but I would like such fellows in prison, or as an option in the river.

[ar-ren]

Quote: volot-voin

What is he doing well? What left Russian workers unemployed?

BDK Ivan Gren has been under construction for 12 years, the readiness of 70%, gobbled up the cost of one mistral, while the displacement is a quarter of the mistral.

The mains signed in 2011, one of them will already be handed over to the fleet.

[mackonya]

Here it is necessary to look at this project, not as a purchase of two Mistrals, but for further cooperation, because after the transfer of two Mistrals, the next 3 will be built in Russia under the license of French shipbuilders.

[unclevad]

Quote: Aliv

This is one of the eggs we hold France for. I think it's worth it. Well done Serdyukov! I saw suk in the root!

Rather, he saw himself more in his pocket, but world geopolitics put its end to this i. The time coincided. I was glad that "Mistrals" can go in northern latitudes.

[qwert]

Oh, would get it in 2014 a year and in Sevastopol. Well, just beat the West that they are so tied to us with a purse and resources that there really is no reason to bullish from them.

Of course, I believe that having experience in the construction of helicopter carriers, aircraft-carrying ships and BDKs, we ourselves could work out and build ships no worse. Our large universal BDKs were in principle the best in their class. But, since it happened, let the French serve in our fleet. It will not be worse from this now. The main thing is that we do not forget to build ships larger than a frigate at our shipyards. Perhaps the construction of the following Mistrals at our shipyards will help to modernize and restore the shipyards, as well as prepare new workers. After all, how much was destroyed and lost during the years of democratic transformation ....

[A1L9E4K9S]

Okay guys, what has been done is done, in our household and these two troughs will fit, the country is big, the banks are long. There is where to turn around. In the north they will be needed.

[cerbuk6155]

And where does FRANCE go, you don’t want to give money. And if they had their will, ships would not have been delivered for anything and money would not have been given. We pressed them with our sanctions.

[dmitrij.blyuz]

There was once a statement by French shipbuilders on the site. The meaning is: If the Russians remove Hollande, we will build the Mistral for them for free. If they take us away from NATO, we’ll plunge them into a battle fleet. And if they also provide economic assistance, Tricolor will call at all the shipyards ! Of course, I am not responsible for the accuracy of the above, but something similar!

[upasika1918]

Hollande said plain text. We will refuse the contract if Anglo-Saxon capital covers all losses. And go ahead!

[Roshchin]

The ship is not bad, the name is suitable "Sevastopol". In order not to idle in vain, let him swim in the Kerch Strait, he will transport Russian tourists. Again, sailors will gain experience. And there you can take another flight to Odessa. They say a whole battalion with equipment and helicopters transports.

[kim. 230752]

As I understand it, the mistral is an offensive weapon. The question is: with whom are we going to fight and who are we going to attack in the Pacific Ocean, in the Arctic Ocean? Maybe it's some kind of disguised washing of money ???

[Dart2027]

Any ship with strike weapons is an attack weapon.

[dchegrinec]

On the Black Sea coast a helicopter carrier doesn’t even interfere; hello to the Baltic states is called.

[dmitrij.blyuz]

The Mistral cannot be an “attack weapon”. It is, in essence, just a barge (like all helicopter carriers) in need of cover. This vessel is planned to be a command and control ship. But its speed characteristics - I’m quietly crying! How can there be a control ship? like that at a speed of 18 knots? The order will hit the horizon and look for fistulas! Or will it kick like the vaunted Mistral? A year ago, this ship was smashed to smithereens on the website. Then its speed was announced at 12,5-13 knots. Looks like they installed a more powerful diesel engine. And now it turned out to be one of the best! There is a duality of opinion! And no one really proved anything. Question for the mariners - do you need this “means of attack”?

[Dart2027]

In fact, ships very rarely drive at full speed. You know, the service life of the engines, and the fuel consumption is enormous. The speed is sufficient for a normal hike.

[capitalist]

where do you get this grass?

“But its speed characteristics - I’m silently crying! How can a control ship be like that with a speed of 18 knots? The order will hit the horizon - and look for fistulas! Or will it kick like the vaunted Mistral?” - The average speed of any marching order is 12-15 knots. Higher speeds are only needed in a direct combat encounter, for example, in pursuit of a submarine by escort ships, etc. In addition, now everywhere there is a tendency to reduce the speed of warships - no one is building ships with a maximum speed of 33-37 knots. 27-29 have long become the norm for a warship, and then rather according to the old tradition. The modern Navy is primarily interested in the efficiency and autonomy of the ship... And how many nodes it makes there is the tenth thing. a missile or even a torpedo still moves many times faster. And high-speed maneuvering in battle, which was important for artillery warships (to reach the optimal firing distance for themselves - remember Tsushima, the Japanese won the battle largely due to the fact that their columns maintained a speed of 15-16 knots in battle, and our squadron was larger I couldn’t squeeze 8), it’s not relevant now for any warship, except perhaps for very small-tonnage ships.

"A year ago, this ship on the site was smashed to smithereens." -who smashed it? Internet warriors with the education of "3rd grade 4th corridor"? so they destroyed a lot of things here - they even destroyed the states here on the forum more than once with a massive nuclear strike. ))

"Then its speed was announced at 12,5-13 knots. Apparently they installed a more powerful diesel engine." -What kind of nonsense? There have never been such numbers. Look at the characteristics of the first French Mistral

"And now he turned out to be one of the best" -he was and remains one. For our purposes this is certainly true. more serious ships could be the Spanish Juan Carlos, but we have no vertical or short take-off aircraft and no one will sell us the F-35, and without them we don’t need the fools (almost 40 thousand tons of total displacement).

[dmitrij.blyuz]

West wind. Overview of UDC "Mistral"