Military Review

Russian fighters defeat American F-15С

105
As the gearmix.ru, with a link to theaviationist.com, 2004 data on demonstration battles were recently declassified, in which the pilots of the Indian Air Force on MiG-21-93 “Bizon” and Su-30 MKI “Irkut” fighters inflicted a crushing defeat on the American pilots on the F-15C and F-16C fighters / D USAF with 9: 1 score. It is also noted that the Russian aircraft have become worthy opponents for the newest French Mirage-2000C, Mirage-2000-5 and Mirage-2000N.


It is worth noting that these types of aircraft are close in technical characteristics, but the Russian Irkuts and Bisons showed the best results when piloting in close combat. According to British pilots who tested Russian fighters, these are “machines of an incredible class.”

As gearmix.ru notes, the Americans explained their defeat by the fact that on their part the pilots of the private wing of the Air Force participated in the training battles, while the Indian team had a lot of aces trained by Russian instructors.

"We came to America to face off with the best pilots of the world, including from the Netherlands and Germany, and the statement by the Americans about the weak composition of their team is no more than an excuse," French pilots said in turn.
Photos used:
http://theaviationist.com/
105 comments
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  1. Gagarin
    Gagarin 12 May 2014 10: 20
    +78
    Interestingly, Indian asss during flights in Russian did not swear ?! )))
    1. fktrcfylhn61
      fktrcfylhn61 12 May 2014 10: 23
      +13
      Vietnamese Nicolae ne surrender!
    2. Cormorants
      Cormorants 12 May 2014 10: 24
      +12
      And his last name was Lisitsin!)
      1. ZU-23
        ZU-23 12 May 2014 10: 38
        +5
        and the Baltic states decided to fight back with the same half-speakers from our latest developments smile
        1. Baikal
          Baikal 12 May 2014 10: 53
          +10
          The statement of the Americans about the weak composition of their team

          Well, basically nothing new.
          As always, bad dancers beat ankle testicles.
          1. Little Muck
            Little Muck 12 May 2014 11: 22
            +8
            the Americans explained their defeat by the fact that pilots of the rank-and-file wing of the Air Force participated in training battles, while the Indian team included many aces trained by Russian instructors.
            The radio interceptions of the pilots' conversations were especially crippled. Russian profanity, closely woven into the training process of Indian pilots, led Amer pilots into a stupor and into a position "drinking deer". laughing What the Indians took advantage of.
        2. nnz226
          nnz226 12 May 2014 10: 59
          +10
          Spratniki in general in a military sense - ZERO! More precisely - minus infinity! Suffice it to recall the emergency landing of the Russian Su-27 (lost orientation) at the Lithuanian airfield several years ago. So the F-16 officers on duty from NATO took off "to intercept" when negotiations on the return of the aircraft and the pilot had been going on for several hours ...
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. nnz226
        nnz226 12 May 2014 10: 56
        +2
        Li-si-ching! That is more correct
        1. vladmazurov
          vladmazurov 12 May 2014 13: 33
          +2
          Right Lee Sitz Ying! Are you not reading Chinese?
        2. Rostovchanin
          Rostovchanin 12 May 2014 18: 20
          +2
          Li-si-ching! That is more correct

          Bylus! my father served as a conscript in Balaklava, around 1970. An officer on duty for a submarine division, by the name of Vanchugin, did something bad to the sailors ... in the morning, on the new pier on the fence, the inscription "Wang Chu Ging is a Chinese provocateur" appeared (case was just during the conflict with China.) Judging by the stories of my father, the special officers flew everyone and everything ...
      4. Not angry
        Not angry 12 May 2014 11: 00
        +4
        Quote: Cormorants
        And his last name was Lisitsin!)



        yes vietnamese Li Xi Qing laughing
      5. e_krendel
        e_krendel 12 May 2014 11: 02
        0
        no, the surname was Li-Si-Tsyn! :)
      6. svp67
        svp67 12 May 2014 11: 10
        0
        Quote: Cormorants
        And his last name was Lisitsin!)

        You are wrong, you are confusing, it was a pilot - Lee Si Tsyn
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. SS68SS
      SS68SS 12 May 2014 10: 32
      +8
      Mat, this is a Russian secret weapon ..... Nobody understands it and everyone is afraid ...
      1. Not angry
        Not angry 12 May 2014 11: 03
        0
        Quote: SS68SS
        Mat, this is a Russian secret weapon .....


        And complex.
    5. The comment was deleted.
    6. Hammer
      Hammer 12 May 2014 10: 34
      +7
      Quote: Gagarin
      interestingly, Indian asss during flights in Russian did not swear ?! )))


      Hindus are strong pilots and good students. But not only the Indians, but the Chinese have already noted ...
      http://newsmilitary.narod.ru/MP-J10F22.html
      or the same
      http://www.military-informant.com/index.php/airforce/455-f-22aim-120.html
      And again, on our planes.
      So I have the idea that it doesn’t matter who is sitting at the helm of a fighter ... For victory it is important that this someone is sitting at the helm of an airplane manufactured at the aircraft factories of Irkutsk or Komsomolsk-on-Amur. soldier wassat
    7. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets 12 May 2014 10: 40
      +1
      Quote: Gagarin
      Indian asses during flights in Russian did not swear ?! )))

      No, they danced and sang songs.
      1. Ezhaak
        Ezhaak 12 May 2014 10: 47
        +3
        Quote: Vladimirets
        No, they danced and sang songs.

        And the brother was looking for the sister, and the sister was looking for the brother
    8. comprochikos
      comprochikos 12 May 2014 10: 58
      +5
      All this nonsense about 6th generation airplanes in the USA is nothing more than PR, restyling in one word. Yes, and the gasket between the helm and the chair they have something junk
      1. 341712
        341712 12 May 2014 11: 16
        +1
        Quote: comprochikos
        Yes, and the gasket between the helm and the chair they have something junk


        More precisely, probably "blows")))) ... laughing , in the sense of NEWSPAPERS))))
    9. svp67
      svp67 12 May 2014 11: 09
      0
      Quote: Gagarin
      Interestingly, Indian asss during flights in Russian did not swear ?! )))

      I think not without it. As it is, foreigners quickly learn from us, and the main thing is then they "famously" use it, but I'm more interested in
      2004 data
      for 10 years, the Yankees have clearly drawn conclusions, and our side ...?
      1. Kasym
        Kasym 12 May 2014 17: 42
        +2
        There was already information on the site that the flight time of the Indians is the largest in the world - 200 hours a year. We have 150 hours in Russia. Ukrainians have about 50 hours. Here is the result.
        MiG-21 is still giving out to the adversaries. Our boys (from Kazakhstan) laid eyes on Grippen and Rafal. And the one and the other on the wing are very reminiscent of our MiG-21s. In close maneuverable combat, he is still that beast, who will yield to few. hi
    10. The comment was deleted.
  2. Artyom
    Artyom 12 May 2014 10: 20
    +3
    old article and information
    1. SS68SS
      SS68SS 12 May 2014 10: 31
      +4
      Old but how nice
      1. strannik595
        strannik595 12 May 2014 10: 39
        +4
        In 2006 - during the Cope India-2006 exercise, Indian pilots successfully confronted F-16 planes in the training battles of the United States pilots.
        ...... let it become a good tradition, and not just pleasant memories laughing
  3. Case48
    Case48 12 May 2014 10: 21
    0
    Recently? 5-6 years already, if not mistaken.
  4. Comintern
    Comintern 12 May 2014 10: 21
    +1
    Now let the shiver out of fear!
  5. sinukvl
    sinukvl 12 May 2014 10: 21
    +13
    A bad dancer always gets in the way.
    1. ZU-23
      ZU-23 12 May 2014 10: 40
      +2
      The right demotivator, they seem to make it simpot, so their designers and advertisers have more money than scientists and engineers
    2. builder
      builder 12 May 2014 10: 43
      0
      Opponent is better to overestimate than underestimate. It is always pleasant to be disappointed for the better.
  6. a52333
    a52333 12 May 2014 10: 22
    +11
    on their side, pilots of the rank-and-file wing of the Air Force participated in training battles, while the Indian team included many aces trained by Russian instructors.

    Oh, and they are strong "glue excuses"
  7. Vlad Gore
    Vlad Gore 12 May 2014 10: 22
    +7
    Low bow to the Soviet designers for this technique. Many are no longer with us, and the weapons they have made are still in awe of "probable opponents." good
    1. Lantau
      Lantau 12 May 2014 10: 34
      +9
      keeps "potential opponents" in awe

      Totally agree
  8. VNP1958PVN
    VNP1958PVN 12 May 2014 10: 24
    +3
    Yes amerikosy all their history on excuses live! But such facts cannot but rejoice drinks
  9. I am proud of Russia
    I am proud of Russia 12 May 2014 10: 24
    +4
    So that's why they are in no hurry to tank biathlon)
    1. comprochikos
      comprochikos 12 May 2014 11: 03
      +1
      And remember the spetsnaz competition, when ours got them screwed up to the fullest. But the "politically correct" organizers gave the victory to the disgusted and haggard Americans
    2. Not angry
      Not angry 12 May 2014 11: 09
      +1
      Quote: I am proud of Russia
      So that's why they are in no hurry to tank biathlon)



      They can and hurry up only for their tanks, no one will be concrete at the tank test sites of the track. hi
  10. Yellow white
    Yellow white 12 May 2014 10: 24
    +1
    - "It's you Vietnamese lying in vain ... I definitely heard in the headset ...."
  11. tolyasik0577
    tolyasik0577 12 May 2014 10: 24
    +1
    Americans have recently been behaving like little children. then their flight of a bomber unsettled, then they could not cope with the Russian planes. I suggest that they adopt a new tactic, lie down and yell, "they do not beat the lying one." we really do not hit a lying person.
    1. comprochikos
      comprochikos 12 May 2014 11: 24
      0
      Hare tactics, lay on your back and kick your legs
  12. Gagarin
    Gagarin 12 May 2014 10: 25
    +3
    Let them keep watch, we still have Migov and T-34 on the pedestals, heaps, we can start shooting, Lugansk has already proved.
    Quote: Vlad Gore
    Low bow to the Soviet designers for this technique. Many are no longer with us, and the weapons they have made are still in awe of "probable opponents."
    1. andj61
      andj61 12 May 2014 12: 01
      +3
      Quote: Gagarin
      Let them keep watch, we still have Migov and T-34 on the pedestals, heaps, we can start shooting, Lugansk has already proved.


      About five years ago, in our district center, the pedestal on which the T-34 stands was being repaired. Welded the gangway out of metal, a couple of peasants came up, put in a battery, poured diesel fuel, fiddled for about forty minutes, started a tank, and he moved off the pedestal!
  13. Khalmamed
    Khalmamed 12 May 2014 10: 28
    +6
    RUSSIAN WEAPONS is a work of ART .., the grace of THOUGHT and SPIRIT OF WINNERS .....!
    RUSSIAN WEAPON-WEAPON OF VICTORY .., thank you very much !!!!
    .... noverno there is a secret mantyshnitsa released on IZHMASH, TULA, etc. at the sight of which the evil spirits will have "lightning-fast, complete and non-stagnant dehydration" ...
  14. valentina-makanalina
    valentina-makanalina 12 May 2014 10: 30
    +2
    Ours say less and do more. They are used to the show, but the show man is ours. We put on the music!
  15. Calter
    Calter 12 May 2014 10: 30
    0
    Well, and how often in modern conflicts did melee arise / can occur? Modern fighters are platforms for transporting and launching missile weapons with a range of several km. Therefore, to evaluate the effectiveness, it is necessary to compare detection / camouflage systems and electronic warfare, as well as fire control systems and effective combat load.
    1. GRAY
      GRAY 12 May 2014 11: 06
      +2
      Signs of close combat, which has a rich history, are considered to be visual communication between maneuvering opponents and the use of short-range weapons - IR-guided air-to-air missiles and cannons. The most likely conditions for the start of close combat:

      after the frustration of a frontal attack, when opponents seek to continue the confrontation;

      in case of detection of the enemy at a short distance, excluding the use of medium-range missiles;

      in case of interceptor engagement with an attack aircraft or helicopter.

      From the composition of the mixed ammunition, the pilot selects missiles with a thermal seeker or a gun. The missile heads are snapped, sent along a moving line of sight to the target, capture it; Aiming is carried out by ILS, start - by a signal in the headphones.

      Unlike ranged combat, which begins with a struggle "for information," in close combat, a struggle is waged "for position." The best position for attack (use of weapons) is behind the target at a small angle at a short distance. To invade a limited area of ​​possible attacks, opponents seek to "maneuver" each other. The advantage is captured by those with a large excess of traction and turning speed in any plane.

      Close combat is based on the close and inextricable link between maneuver and fire. Attempts to violate the equality of these components were made repeatedly, but led to negative results. American Phantom aircraft, which surpassed the MiG-21 in firepower, were defeated in maneuverable battles: excessive weight of the aircraft reduced survival rates. The Syrian MiG-23 interceptors also hit hard in battles with light F-16 fighters, and the MiG-25 high-altitude interceptor was not at all introduced into a mobile battle environment at medium altitudes.
      1. supertiger21
        supertiger21 12 May 2014 16: 30
        +1
        Quote: GRAY
        The Syrian MiG-23 interceptors also fought hard in battles with light F-16 fighter jets, and the MiG-25 high-altitude interceptor was not introduced at all to the moving battle environment at medium altitudes.


        I agree! However, the point here is already in aerodynamics, in which fighters of previous generations are much inferior to fighters of the 4th.
  16. GRAY
    GRAY 12 May 2014 10: 31
    +3
    There is something missing in the article:
    "According to the terms of the demonstration battles, the United States was limited in the use of long-range missiles and on-board early detection multi-frequency radars. Similarly, Indian pilots were prohibited from using the Russian Bars radar and missiles of the same class."
    In close combat, Russian cars always made pindostansky, glad that the MiG-21 was a revelation for them.
    1. s1н7т
      s1н7т 12 May 2014 10: 38
      0
      Quote: GRAY
      There is something missing in the article:
      "According to the terms of the demonstration battles, the United States was limited in the use of long-range missiles and onboard multi-frequency early detection radars. Similarly, Indian pilots were prohibited from using the Russian Bars radars.

      It’s they not to disclose the characteristics, probably? Think they hid an ace up their sleeve. I wonder what our GRU thinks about this. laughing
    2. clidon
      clidon 12 May 2014 10: 43
      +2
      We have already written that there are many things missing. Including the fact that the information was "declassified" at first in the magazines of the US Air Force and coincided with the debate on pushing the production of the F-22 through Congress. )
      Then the truth (when the F-22 was closed anyway) began to publish articles in the style of "Well, we were joking about that loss", but they were no longer interesting in Runet. )
  17. Kodar 75
    Kodar 75 12 May 2014 10: 31
    +1
    Amerikosam to such mastery as far as I walk from Chita to Moscow)))
    1. gfhjkm
      gfhjkm 12 May 2014 10: 52
      0
      the Americans explained their defeat by the fact that pilots of the Private Air Force wing participated in training battles


      A bad dancer always gets in the way. lol
    2. The comment was deleted.
  18. xbhxbr-777
    xbhxbr-777 12 May 2014 10: 35
    +1
    So this was to be expected! They do not serve an idea, but for money and besides, many know what awaits them after the army!
  19. serega.fedotov
    serega.fedotov 12 May 2014 10: 37
    +1
    I don’t know how true: but one familiar technician who was part of a group that transmitted in the 2000s drying of India spoke about their pilots exclusively abusively !!!!
  20. vch62388
    vch62388 12 May 2014 10: 38
    +6
    It would be very interesting to look at the results, if not "Indian aces, trained by Russian instructors" participated in the battles, but the instructors themselves.
    Very rarely, a student surpasses a teacher in mastery.
    1. vinc
      vinc 12 May 2014 11: 43
      0
      I think Americans would cry right in the air crying
    2. The comment was deleted.
  21. Vlad Gore
    Vlad Gore 12 May 2014 10: 38
    +4
    After the reunification of the GDR and the Federal Republic of Germany, the Germans held the same battles between the MiG-29 and the F-16. MiGs won all the battles. good
    1. supertiger21
      supertiger21 12 May 2014 16: 26
      0
      Quote: Vlad Gore
      After the reunification of the GDR and the Federal Republic of Germany, the Germans held the same battles between the MiG-29 and the F-16. MiGs won all the battles.


      Not with the F-16, but with the F-18C in 1998.
  22. Imigrantt
    Imigrantt 12 May 2014 10: 38
    0
    Quote: fktrcfylhn61
    Vietnamese Nicolae ne surrender!

    They not only do not give up but also fall in love with Russian awl !!!!!! hi
  23. mig31
    mig31 12 May 2014 10: 39
    +1
    We are the best in the world in everything and in people and technology, he made the score 4-0 in our favor.
  24. Vlad Gore
    Vlad Gore 12 May 2014 10: 42
    +3
    We Russians have a "habit" of engaging in battle with a superior enemy. So our designers, knowing this, in advance make the technique many times superior to everything that is in the world. good
  25. avia1991
    avia1991 12 May 2014 10: 42
    +4
    MiG-21 ?! Guys, this is not serious. A fighter from the Vietnam War, even a deeply modernized one, should not be equated with the F-15. These are very high-quality cars, one must clearly understand that the pros at the helm will not leave a chance for the "21". Another thing is that the Americans really do not have such professionals - they are used to fighting "with convenience", in the absence of any opposition. Therefore, ours will beat them ON ANY cars - I think even a Russian "maize" with a pair of F-15s can cope wassat (just kidding, of course! lol )
    1. clidon
      clidon 12 May 2014 10: 48
      0
      "Americans really don't have pros" ...

      Are you kidding too?
      1. avia1991
        avia1991 12 May 2014 11: 35
        +1
        Quote: clidon
        Are you kidding too?

        Units of real specialists do not count. The whole doctrine of today's US Air Force is based on overwhelming numerical and technical superiority, in addition, in the light of the development of drones, as well as the capabilities of modern weapons, it is assumed that air combat issues are now losing relevance. This opinion, of course, no one showed me US strategic plans lol , but not my opinion, but Western military analysts. Unfortunately, I probably won’t find a link to the article now - I read it about four months ago ..
        PS Yes .. well, do not forget that Americans LLC rely on computer brains very much, and that does not add their own skills.
        1. clidon
          clidon 12 May 2014 12: 29
          +3
          But I know that the training courses of the US Air Force take the action of their own aviation in the minority as the basic basis of training. It is believed that a US Air Force pilot must be able to win in conditions of an overwhelming numerical superiority of the enemy, which plays on the same famous Top Guns, where at the first stage instructor pilots work in the minority against "cadets", and as a rule win. As the local instructors said, "we must break the stereotype - there are more of us, we are better armed - we will win." Training in isolation from electronic warfare and AWACS systems is mandatory. Unmanned aerial vehicles (USAF) are of course different, here in fact the emphasis is still more on technological superiority.
          At the same time, the quality of the Air Force is generally put at the forefront of the entire US military machine. Therefore, it’s better not to look, it’s some kind of stereotypical sketch.

          PS You are some kind of collection of stereotypes. ) The very concept of using the Pentaon man has always consisted not of replacing a person with an automaton, but of helping an automaton with a person. This is the whole American ideology since the 60s and it can be traced everywhere. Who has tanks with automatic loader. and who has a black man? Who has a docking machine in space, who has a manual one? who has 60 crews on submarines, and who has 130 crews with the same displacement. There are many such examples.
          1. avia1991
            avia1991 13 May 2014 21: 00
            0
            Quote: clidon
            PS You are some kind of collection of stereotypes.

            ))) I accept the joke. And you are right, of course, the only problem is that you need to apply the appropriate brains to all the wonderful technology. Did you communicate with the Americans in person? Not with the military, no - I won't brag about that. But I didn't talk to the homeless people - that's for sure. And I can say that THEIR WONDERFUL TECHNOLOGY will not help them cope with our fighters! Just because they are "standardized" outrageously. It is not for nothing that Zadornov laughs at them - this is reality. What our fighters are good at is that they can NON-STANDARD think and act!
    2. Rostovchanin
      Rostovchanin 12 May 2014 18: 23
      0
      MiG-21 ?! Guys, this is not serious.
      my friend, "one of the chiefs of staff of one of the air armies", assured me by oath that the potential of the MiG-21 is very great ... and in fact, a very serious machine ...
      1. avia1991
        avia1991 13 May 2014 20: 54
        0
        Perhaps your friend knows more. But my point of view is based on the knowledge gained during my studies and subsequent service. Nobody says that the 21st is bad - they poured "Phantoms" for a sweet soul! But progress does not stand still. So this is a great trusty warhorse - just outdated ..
  26. Vlad Gore
    Vlad Gore 12 May 2014 10: 44
    +3
    Quote: Vlad Gore
    Low bow to the Soviet designers for this technique. Many are no longer with us, and the weapons they have made are still in awe of "probable opponents." good

    Some kind of dog does not like our designers. Minusala. angry
  27. Barakuda
    Barakuda 12 May 2014 10: 50
    +1
    "Li-tsi-dqing" - He is Lisitsin, Forgotten the amekricots that in Korea lost 70% of Boeing-29s. And it was just 1947. And the moment is unobtrusive ...
  28. lexxxus
    lexxxus 12 May 2014 10: 50
    0
    Quote: Gagarin
    Interestingly, Indian asss during flights in Russian did not swear ?! )))

    Of course - a voice control)))
    1. Barakuda
      Barakuda 12 May 2014 10: 58
      0
      There the "filling" is different. And ours have nothing to do there now. Only in Zhirinovsky's dreams.
  29. Arkan
    Arkan 12 May 2014 10: 53
    +3
    the Americans explained their defeat by the fact that pilots of the rank-and-file wing of the Air Force participated in training battles, while the Indian team included many aces trained by Russian instructors.


    Ha! What childish excuses, at the level of a three-year-old child, do the American "aces" The Americans can win only with a multiple numerical superiority, and one on one, they have little guts!
  30. hot
    hot 12 May 2014 10: 55
    +4
    used to shoot ground objects with rockets, and real air combat is a completely different story!
  31. taseka
    taseka 12 May 2014 11: 04
    0
    Yes, if our squadron from the movie "Only old men go to battle" were put on the Bison by teleportation, then the Americans would not have had anyone to give interviews at all!
  32. v.karewik
    v.karewik 12 May 2014 11: 05
    +1
    Is always. AND EVERYWHERE. TO BE Proud WE ARE RUSSIAN RUSSIANS. And THE BADGERS OF THE TYPE OF GOZMAN, WHICH GROWED AND LEARNED BY THE USSR

    RUSSIA. FOR THE SKIN AND OUT. OF. COUNTRY. LET Bark WHERE ANYTHING IN THE STATES. THAN MORE THROW OUT. TOPIC. SMALLER. Stink

    IN THE COUNTRY.
  33. skylare
    skylare 12 May 2014 11: 06
    +2
    In no case should a person be underestimated. The fact that they have qualified specialists is undeniable. But the fact that they come up with various excuses in the event of their defeat, well, they can’t openly say that the American army screwed up. They, by definition, should be the best, but only recently they too often wipe their nose. We have an obvious superiority in the quality of technology, let's hope that this will remain so. I never doubted the strength of the spirit of a Russian person.
  34. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 12 May 2014 11: 07
    +5
    All such articles should be treated with healthy skepticism.
    Firstly, it was precisely the melee, because
    Under the terms of the demonstration battles, the United States was limited in the use of long-range missiles and airborne early warning radars of multi-frequency action. Similarly, Indian pilots were forbidden to use the Russian-equipped Bars radars and missiles of the same class.
    http://www.yaplakal.com/forum3/st/0/topic804849.html А вообще оригинал статьи на английском похоже вот тут http://theaviationist.com/2014/05/02/cope-india-2004-results/
    But since I understand English a little better than a piglet in oranges, I won’t translate.
    As I understand it, there was a ban on AMRAAm. Well, in close combat, the old F-15 against the Su-30 with a dvigl with a variable thrust vector, with a decent helmet-mounted guidance system, with optical-location stations ... Where? :))))
    In the BVB, our planes are obviously better, but this is not a reason to shout "I'll kill everyone, I'll stay alone."
    And I would not advise to treat Indian pilots down. They are driven not in a childish way, with an annual raid of up to 300 hours. True, they and we seem to have differently considered flight hours, so you can’t compare the direct raid of a warrior of the Russian Air Force and Indian winged kshatriya, but they are serious guys.
  35. sxn278619
    sxn278619 12 May 2014 11: 08
    -2
    Games are not a real air battle. At long range, the detection range and missile range are decisive. Maneuverability and aerobatics are needed only in order to evade a rocket flying into the forehead, and a combat pilot is hardly capable of this.
    1. GRAY
      GRAY 12 May 2014 14: 35
      +1
      EW has not been canceled.
    2. Cpa
      Cpa 12 May 2014 18: 12
      0
      The concept of "dog dump" - dogfight is also among the Americans, it means close combat of escort fighters and air defense fighters.
      Quote: sxn278619
      Maneuverability and aerobatics are needed only to evade a rocket flying in the forehead

      Well, a rocket can fly tail too. laughing
      Quote: sxn278619
      and this is hardly capable of combatant pilot.

      expediency is of paramount importance to them, and if necessary, the pilot undergoes additional training. If they were not interested in air battles, our fighters in third countries would not buy out for restoration.
    3. supertiger21
      supertiger21 12 May 2014 23: 17
      +1
      Quote: sxn278619
      Games are not a real air battle. At long range


      Firstly, air combat is not only about long range.

      Quote: sxn278619
      At long range, the detection range and missile range are decisive.


      Not a range, but an opportunity. If you wanted to protect American planes in this statement, then without knowing it, give arguments in favor of the Russians.

      Quote: sxn278619
      Maneuverability and aerobatics are needed only to evade a rocket flying in the forehead


      Before Vietnam, the Yankees also thought so, until the Phantoms began to burn like candles am If you think that the probability of being hit by a missile is absolute, then you are greatly mistaken. During air battles over the Indo-Chinese jungle in 1965-1973, the American AIM-7 medium-range missiles hit the target only in 10-15% of all launches In other words, the American plan of "notice first, attack first" practically failed.

      Quote: sxn278619
      and this is hardly capable of combatant pilot.


      Well, this is not for you to judge. In the Ethiopian-Eritrean war, the Su-27 and MiG-29 pilots somehow managed to dodge the R-27 missiles during air battles. And these are African pilots (!!!) who did not differ in the best piloting skills .
  36. cerbuk6155
    cerbuk6155 12 May 2014 11: 08
    0
    And who ever doubted that we would beat them. RUSSIAN SPIRIT not to exterminate. good drinks
  37. mamont5
    mamont5 12 May 2014 11: 21
    +1
    "The Americans explained their defeat by the fact that on their side pilots of the private wing of the Air Force participated in training battles, while the Indian team included many aces trained by Russian instructors."

    The bad dancer is always disturbed by eggs. This is not for the unarmed population to launch rockets.
  38. Ruswolf
    Ruswolf 12 May 2014 11: 29
    0
    Russian is not picky and not spoiled.
    The main indicator of success is personal qualities - the skill of a specialist! And we are teaching this to our friends too!
    The Americans have other approaches - besides those. and fire, it is a requirement for comfort and safety. As a result, the basis of victory is a machine, not a person.
    Hence the reservations about old equipment, lack of preparedness, lack of Coca-Cola in the morning, air conditioning in the barracks, and so on and so forth.

    An example is not dark:
    In the 1996 year, the Americans showed interest in the 3's rifle, I suggested trying on and going down, they did not trustingly squint and politely refused. But we were also very surprised that our group, with equipment from the beginning of the 60 years, had an 2 performance that was higher than their current one.
  39. Barakuda
    Barakuda 12 May 2014 11: 40
    0
    f-16 created against MimG-23, did NOT help. He was advertised in the USA as the killers of the Mig. A pill in the Arab-Israeli Americans received. The F-15 glider was stuck with us, but not finalized. There were Su-27, MiG-29, by and large, they have nothing to add besides the filling.
    F-22,18- coffins, the old MiG-29 sees them, as well as the forgotten OSA AKM air defense system .- there is such a mobile complex on lamps. (He has an electromagnet pulse on the drum) in the event of a nuclear explosion.
    1. supertiger21
      supertiger21 12 May 2014 16: 23
      +1
      Quote: Barracuda
      f-16 created against MimG-23, did NOT help.


      It was created against the MiG-21.

      Quote: Barracuda
      F-22,18 - coffins, the old MiG-29 sees them, as well as the forgotten OSA AKM air defense system.


      Do not carry nonsense. When it was our MiG-29s could see the F-22. If you drop your hats, then give at least more convincing arguments, not empty words.
      1. clidon
        clidon 12 May 2014 21: 01
        0
        Do not carry nonsense. When it was our MiG-29s could see the F-22

        This is a bike from Levin's book "World Fighters", which indicated a magical property discovered by the pilots of the Federal Republic of Germany - the MiG-29 radar suddenly sees all the stealth. ) The book is old, somewhere in the second half of the 90s. But she's all there - "to raise the fighting spirit."
  40. Glavmec
    Glavmec 12 May 2014 11: 44
    +3
    I'm proud! I built these machines (30 MKI) at IAZ!
  41. ddmm09
    ddmm09 12 May 2014 11: 46
    0
    There is a lot of such information about the superiority of Russian aircraft and pilots, but in the end we are still losing. We are losing because of the traitors of our people, Gorbachev is one of them. If not for his "help", it would be much easier for everyone !!!
  42. Leshka
    Leshka 12 May 2014 11: 53
    +1
    interesting these indian pilots speak indian
  43. Giant thought
    Giant thought 12 May 2014 12: 04
    0
    It was a long time ago, but they issue it as fresh news. And, actually, from such information the soul becomes warmer.
  44. BelPartizan
    BelPartizan 12 May 2014 12: 18
    0
    Will we throw caps again? In no case should you underestimate the enemy. It was already like that. What would the article lay balm for the soul is not enough a little, news that our factories produce our machines massively. And we have? You yourself know that production compared to the times of the USSR is not very large. Industry is struggling now, but the adversary is now clearly an overwhelming advantage. Only our developed air defense system balances the odds today. It’s too early to rest on its laurels, it is necessary to raise industry and aircraft construction if not five, 5th generation aircraft should be delivered at least 5 dozen each. Not yet, but they ALREADY fly
  45. Bort radist
    Bort radist 12 May 2014 12: 25
    +4
    And now the 80s disco.
  46. Buran
    Buran 12 May 2014 12: 38
    0
    And this is without EWs, air defense support, and almost one type of aircraft.
    1. supertiger21
      supertiger21 12 May 2014 16: 13
      0
      Quote: Buran
      And this is without EWs, air defense support, and almost one type of aircraft.


      And it was impossible to use medium-range air-to-air weapons.
      1. Kassandra
        Kassandra 21 May 2014 02: 50
        0
        because his work was suppressed by jammers.
  47. Neighbor
    Neighbor 12 May 2014 12: 51
    0
    It turns out that if the Russian instructors trained the Yusovites, it would be a completely different matter ...
  48. imugn
    imugn 12 May 2014 13: 08
    0
    Google Chrome writes "dangerous software on the site"
    1. GRAY
      GRAY 12 May 2014 14: 43
      0
      Comodo Dragon writes that everything is smooth.
    2. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 12 May 2014 15: 49
      0
      Quote: imugn
      Google Chrome writes "dangerous software on the site"

      This someone posted a picture from a virus site. There is nothing to worry about, they’ve already deleted
  49. imugn
    imugn 12 May 2014 13: 09
    0
    Is it a misprint "MIG-21"? Painfully antediluvian cars
    1. Kasym
      Kasym 12 May 2014 17: 55
      +1
      Nobody has canceled aerodynamics yet. Look at Rafal, Eurofighter, Grippen. Look at the wing. Doesn’t resemble anything? The lifting force is directly proportional to the area of ​​the wing. MiG designers say that the complete modernization of 21 aircraft can withstand under certain conditions 4th-generation aircraft. What the Indians proved on the MiG-21 Bison. hi
      1. supertiger21
        supertiger21 12 May 2014 18: 28
        0
        Quote: Kasym
        complete modernization of 21 aircraft can withstand under certain conditions 4th-generation aircraft. What the Indians proved on the MiG-21 Bison.


        May withstand, but DO NOT EXCEED 4th generation fighters.
        1. Kasym
          Kasym 12 May 2014 18: 42
          +1
          I also write to resist. He has enough "flaws" at the moment. The VAF wrote about the weak traction armament, but good maneuverability (due to which he beat the adversaries, he has no other option, only short-range maneuverable combat).
          At our aviation training ground, he saw him most of all when he served. Kant (where the Russian airbase is now based) and Tokmok in Kyrgyzstan. They were based at these airfields. In Lugovoi (Kazakhstan) MiG-23,29. Frunze MI-8,24 helicopters. These are all the airfields that we served. But this is understandable, the school was for foreigners who bought and had these aircraft and turntables in service. MiG-21 was the most common.
  50. nvn_co
    nvn_co 12 May 2014 13: 21
    +1
    No one doubted the victory over the F-15 by our Su-shki! But it's nice for the MiG-21, however! Well done! "The old horse does not spoil the furrow"
    1. supertiger21
      supertiger21 12 May 2014 16: 12
      0
      Quote: nvn_co
      But the MiG-21 is nice, however! Well done!


      Well, the MiG-21 did not win training fights belay , they won the Su-30.