Military Review

Passionality of the farmer and craftsman

80
Passionality of the farmer and craftsman



I like the theory of L. N. Gumilyov about drive. Let it be fantastic in places, but there is sound grain in it. Interesting look at history extraordinary and passionate personality.

Based on it, I made several conclusions. I will not bore you with my own conclusions, let me just say that the Russian ethnos, being in the phase of fracture, risks losing many of its lands and lives, being surrounded by more energetic and prolific neighbors. It was necessary to hope only for the craft of God (my article "Algorithm of Survival"). So I thought before the “Russian spring”.

A. Prokhanov after a trip to the Maidan and our Southeast complained about the unprecedented passionarism Maidan and lack of will of Donbass. He was right - it was. But that has changed.

Now, reading about the battles for Slavyansk, in the intervals I write these lines and I see that the Russian people of Ukraine were simply enraged, because the occupying liberators took it out. The whole “Russian spring” was a shock for the enemies, a reason for pride for all of us and a pleasant surprise for me personally.

Why did we sleep in Russia and its surroundings for so long? Where was our will and pride? Answer: we had no time. We worked, plowed in the fields and factories. We have many fields, forests and rivers, enterprises and institutions. What, on figs, passionarity when it is necessary to feed children. Waving flags after a sports victory is “cool”, listen to Zadornov that we are the smartest, and they are all stupid there - “cool”, to watch a movie where our ancestors beat not ours - “credit”. All this without strain, without effort, knowing that tomorrow you will need strength for work. Convenient, and kind of like a patriot.

But here again there is a big threat, a real risk for our land and children - and we are already completely different. The main thing - we cease to be indifferent and indifferent, seeing the impending disaster for fellow tribesmen. In us, the notorious passionarity awakens, and now hold on, militant-pravosek and minister-homosexual. It would be better for you to throw yourself out of the window, like that American general - we will work faster, and it will not be so painful for you.

In vain they, oh, in vain. Could remember Hitler and Napoleon, Bandera, at worst. They would have shouted their “moskalyaku on Gilyak” somewhere in the Carpathians, and we would have pretended that it was not Andestend, and would have lived longer. But we were forced to hear it all. Now we will change the working uniform to the military uniform and distribute chewing ties. We will do everything as quickly as possible (we, unlike you, idlers, need to work). You were asked not to climb, not to run up, not to bully us. You did not listen. So be it, dedicate you a couple of lines in your history books.

In the old days, nomads and all Crusaders like their own raids, so our ancestors would temporarily set aside their working inventory, stand under the guidance of polite warriors and come to the enemy with a pretense. Then they will see that the land at the bazurman is good, but the whole weed has been overgrown, they will pity it, plow it and sow it, and make friends with the locals who are not very violent. And our country has grown to the sixth part of the world.

There is passion in us, there is. She simply then goes to the cultivated land, but when she presses, then “Get up, the country is huge,” and then catch the enemies of burrows and ravines.

It’s a pity that we never finished our enemies to the end - we don’t have time for everything, we are in a hurry to work everything, but the shortages are gathering with the forces, and again on us. For the future: weeds should be weeded out to the end, with a root. And if from the neighbor's garden weed seeds will be blown up by the wind, then there it is necessary to mow them.
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  1. svp67
    svp67 3 May 2014 08: 01
    +12
    An interesting theory of Scythian - Gumelev ... In development: "our passionarity accumulates and is stored for a long time, until the very critical moment ..."
    1. 11111mail.ru
      11111mail.ru 3 May 2014 09: 02
      +20
      Quote: svp67
      Interesting theory Scythian - Gumeleva..

      Dear, the author of the article directly pointed to the author of the theory "passionarity is the driving force behind the development of an ethnos." The second vowel in the last name is typed incorrectly by you: "and", but not "e". Accordingly, Lev Nikolaevich Gumilyov, by no means indicated by you Gumelev. Since the bearers of passionarity according to LN Gumilev are people who for some reason are mortal, it is impossible to "accumulate" passionarity. For the sake of interest, read the books by L.N. Gumilyov "Ethnogenesis and the biosphere of the earth" and "The end and the beginning again", complementing each other. If you still have an interest in studying history, then I assure you: you will not regret it. The boring A.J. Toynbee (read his "Civilization before the Court of History" and "Comprehension of History") is just a schoolboy, like Kyrla Myrla, who has scattered 4 volumes of "Das Kapital".
      1. upasika1918
        upasika1918 3 May 2014 09: 19
        -1
        I agree, Skif ran over the tops, jotted down the terms, checked himself out. He put forward his hypothesis, the level of "pike vests". Type expert and connoisseur.
        1. Colonel
          Colonel 3 May 2014 10: 52
          +5
          Can you please go deeper
          1. I am a Russian
            I am a Russian 4 May 2014 01: 58
            +3
            Quote: colonel
            Can you please go deeper


            not overpower.

            The topic is complex and voluminous ... knowledge is not enough for him
      2. iConst
        iConst 3 May 2014 19: 16
        +2
        Quote: 11111mail.ru
        Dear, the author of the article directly pointed to the author of the theory "passionarity is the driving force behind the development of an ethnos."

        Blue is the eye, and sometimes is brown,
        There is a passive fag, and there is a passionary.

        M. Elizarov

        Squid ... smile
      3. balyaba
        balyaba 3 May 2014 22: 42
        +5
        How is it impossible to accumulate? Passionarity is inherited with genes and upbringing. Another thing is that it fades out over the generations ... then it is reborn. In one word, "The end and the beginning again"
        1. Iraclius
          Iraclius 3 May 2014 22: 47
          +1
          Only for some reason, one end, like, say, the Romans, and the other, the beginning, like the Indians and Chinese. So is there passionarity?
          1. andj61
            andj61 6 May 2014 21: 55
            +1
            Quote: Iraclius
            Only for some reason, one end, like, say, the Romans, and the other, the beginning, like the Indians and Chinese. So is there passionarity?


            According to L. Gumilev, nations live for 500-700 years. Passionary (that is, in which the number of passionaries exceeded a certain level, there are 1-2 generations, then passionaries give birth to subpassionaries, and not always on their territory, because passionaries are conquerors, destroyers, great robbers, revolutionaries, military and pirates. Sub-passionaries are already creators, builders, etc. Then society gradually falls into stasis as it is now in Europe, calmly, steadily, everyone holds on to their wallet and is terribly afraid of changes. Development stops. At the same time, individuals can be passionate And then the nation dies - and it is either absorbed by other nations, or a new one is formed on its basis. In Russia, he said, there is already a minimum (in the written history) of the second nation, in Europe - the third, with a lot of features, exceptions, etc. In India and China, this process is already not taking place in the first round, but somewhere for the fourth or fifth time.
            In general, it's a long story to tell. But the books of L. Gumilyov are very interesting. By the way, he is the son of the poet N. Gumilyov and A. Akhmatova.
      4. Iraclius
        Iraclius 3 May 2014 23: 33
        +3
        Respected 11111mail.ruThe person whom you called "Kyrla Myrla, who has scattered 4 volumes" is an indisputable authority in economics to this day, including the economists of our sworn friend - the West. And these 4 volumes he wrote all his life.
        Not a single economist in all the past time has been able to create anything even close with similar fundamentals and comprehensiveness.
        It is strange to hear such offensive remarks from a person who praises a scientist who made gross errors in his books and ignorance of even the basics of biology. request
        1. 11111mail.ru
          11111mail.ru 4 May 2014 09: 14
          +1
          Quote: Iraclius
          And he wrote these 4 volumes all his life.

          There were vague rumors that the FOURTH volume of "Das Kapital", how to put it mildly (not written, of course!) ... was edited by his kind bearded classic friend.
          Quote: Iraclius
          ignorance of even the basics of biology

          Well, what if a certain Timofeev-Resovsky, who was a major specialist in the area you indicated, turned his back on LN Gumilyov, refusing to advise on the topic of genetics (by the way, was “genetics” already rehabilitated at that time?).
          1. Iraclius
            Iraclius 4 May 2014 11: 18
            +1
            According to the geneticist [Timofeev-Resovsky - approx. mine], the nation should be determined through social relations, and N. V. Timofeev-Resovsky could not completely agree with the concept of passionarity and natural certainty of this phenomenon. The geneticist and biologist did not give an intelligible answer to the subject of passionarity and passionarity of human nature, saying that everything needs to be checked.

            This is the essence of science - to verify and justify, and here the geneticist is right unconditionally.
            And what about L.N.? He wrote his vision without reinforcing it. Any decent scientist would do the same in the place of Timofeev.
            And this is not the main thing - after the persecution of genetics ended, our science turned out to be catching up here and paid close attention to the achievements of the West. L.N. I didn’t even bother to get acquainted with the work of a foreign country.
      5. The comment was deleted.
    2. Kazbek
      Kazbek 3 May 2014 10: 37
      0
      Quote: svp67
      An interesting theory of Scythian - Gumelev ... In development: "our passionarity accumulates and is stored for a long time, until the very critical moment ..."
      As there is in everything known ..
      "Our strength is in swimming trunks ... !!!" lol
      1. 11111mail.ru
        11111mail.ru 3 May 2014 12: 54
        +2
        Quote: Kazbek
        "Our strength is in swimming trunks ... !!!"

        Is this from kitchen humor thirty years ago?
    3. Ross
      Ross 4 May 2014 03: 29
      +2
      An interesting theory of Scythian - Gumelev ... In development: "our passionarity accumulates and is stored for a long time, until the very critical moment ..."

      Theory is not a theory ... If you read the old Arabic annals about the Rus (6-8 century), it says so explicitly there. That the people of Rus are friendly and hospitable, hardworking. But God forbid to deceive or offend him, woe to him! He will come and instruct, do not wait for mercy.
      It can be said that different conquerors needed to read before they meddled with us, so nobody taught history.
    4. Buran
      Buran 4 May 2014 17: 23
      +1
      Old as the world. The law of conservation of energy translated into the humanitarian plane. The first law of thermodynamics, in the formulation of its discoverers N. Mayer and G. Helmholtz, states that, with all changes occurring in an isolated system, the total energy of the system remains constant. Another formulation: with all macroscopic chemical and physical processes, energy is not created and does not disappear (is not destroyed), but only passes from one form to another. It is expressed by the equation DU = DQ + DW, where U is the internal energy of the closed system, Q is the amount of heat exchanged between the system and the environment, W is the work. The effect of this law also applies to processes occurring in living organisms. It was established that the total amount of energy that a plant, animal or person receives over a certain period of time is subsequently rediscovered, firstly, in the heat released; secondly, in the performed external work or emitted substances; thirdly, in an increase in the calorific value of the body as a result of the growth or accumulation of a substance.
  2. Vladimirets
    Vladimirets 3 May 2014 08: 02
    +22
    "It's a pity that we never finished off the enemies to the end - we still have no time, we are in a hurry to work everything."

    This is our notorious sentimentality, humanity and mercy, those who fell kicking, this is not our method.
  3. NIVH
    NIVH 3 May 2014 08: 06
    +29
    Great is seen in the distance. I would even say that myopic will never see the great.
  4. Rurikovich
    Rurikovich 3 May 2014 08: 06
    +8
    Gumilev invented his "passionarity" in order to explain the military conflicts in Europe after the collapse of the Great Empire. Since, due to lack of information and ignorance of the real reasons, he could not do it otherwise. So we have to say that the peoples from the bay-flounder begin to fight each other. But get to the bottom of the real reasons, and this "passionate" opinion might not have arisen.
    Morality? Man comes up with where he can explain ...
    1. 11111mail.ru
      11111mail.ru 3 May 2014 09: 28
      +3
      Quote: Rurikovich
      Gumilev invented his "passionarity" in order to explain military conflicts in Europe after the collapse Great empire.

      1. Was there a "great empire" in Europe?
      2. What do you think - "passionarity" is the cause of military conflicts?
      Quote: Rurikovich
      due to lack of information and lack of knowledge of the real reasons, he could not do it otherwise.

      L.N. Gumilyov used the same sources that are available to you. Simply, unlike you, he, as a scientist, was able to correctly pose questions and give answers to them within the framework of his theory.
      Quote: Rurikovich
      и this "passionate" opinions might not arise.

      Explain your point regarding this "passionate". What did you mean: "this" = this (then it turns out this passionary) or "this" = sow (then it turns out nonsense).
      Quote: Rurikovich
      Morality? Man comes up with where on can explain ..

      Morality? Probably good drinks yesterday "took on the chest"? You express your undoubtedly wise thoughts in a somewhat chaotic, incomprehensible and irrelevant manner.
      1. mamont5
        mamont5 3 May 2014 12: 53
        +2
        Quote: 11111mail.ru
        1. Was there a "great empire" in Europe?


        Actually it was - the Roman Empire. And later - the Holy Roman Empire of the German nation.
        1. 11111mail.ru
          11111mail.ru 3 May 2014 19: 02
          +3
          Quote: mamont5
          Quote: 11111mail.ru
          1. Was there a "great empire" in Europe?

          Actually it was - the Roman Empire. And later - the Holy Roman Empire of the German nation.

          In the names you quoted, the word "great" does not appear.
      2. Rurikovich
        Rurikovich 3 May 2014 20: 32
        0
        Quote: 11111mail.ru
        Explain your thought in relation to this "passionate". What did you mean: "this" = this (then it turns out this passionate) or "this" = sow (then it turns out nonsense).

        Let me explain for you, smart and well-read: "this" in this context is "this". But! Thinking people do not pay attention to the DESCRIPTIONS and read the text in order to understand the meaning. And do not find fault. You can even get to the pillar. This time. Two. I'm going to work in the morning and I just don't have enough time to explain everything in detail. I only have time to briefly convey my idea. Therefore, this kind of DESCRIPTIONS arise, in my opinion, do not change the essence of the conversation. Three. To say that a person wrote "accepted" if there is no firm conviction in this is tantamount to an insult. Why messy? Read the explanations above.
        Yes, I am of the opinion that you are a teacher.
        Let's continue. I have my own opinion on the history of Russians. And based on the latest hypotheses, research and all sorts of evidence, it no longer fits with the academic. There are too many buts. And if I said that Gumilev's theory of passionarity looks childish and idiotic (according to Gumilev, this means that two peoples, for no reason, no reason, beat each other in the face, only because it has come time to take out on each other your ambitions), it means that I consider her childish and idiotic. There is always a CAUSE and a CONSEQUENCE of any action. Even the war. Gumilyov's reasons are not linked to the investigation.
        Therefore, my explanations do not coincide with those of Gumily as a result of new discoveries.
        hi
        Yes, and find fault with trifles less - so you can skip the essence ...
        1. Vladimir73
          Vladimir73 3 May 2014 22: 08
          +4
          Quote: Rurikovich
          And if I said that Gumilyov’s theory of passionarity looks childish and idiotic (according to Gumilyov, this means that two people, for no reason, for nothing, beat each other's faces, just because they had time to move them on top of each other their ambitions), it means that I consider her childish and idiotic.


          This is exactly L.N. and it was surprising that according to historical documents it turned out "not for no reason." He pointed to these non-connections. hi
          1. Rurikovich
            Rurikovich 3 May 2014 22: 29
            0
            Quote: Vladimir73
            This is exactly L.N. and it was surprising that according to historical documents it turned out "not for no reason." He pointed to these non-connections.

            But WHY this happened, Gumilyov could not explain. Therefore, his explanation arose. And L.N. Gumilyov did not succeed in thinking what could be wrong with the historical documents. As a result, we have "passionarity".
            Personally, it seems to me that today I need to more boldly pay attention to alternative academic studies of history, and not only to historians, but also to archaeologists, mathematicians, physicists. And it’s not a fact that what historians stuff us with is true. And shouting with foam at the mouth that the Kulikovo battle took place near Tula is easier than accepting the obvious that this is not so.
            Morality? Yes, there is no morality. Everyone believes in what he wants to believe. If only there were brains to think about what you believe in ... hi
            1. Iraclius
              Iraclius 3 May 2014 22: 38
              +5
              Alternative story, say? Well, well ... Somewhere I already heard it - alternative service, alternative marriages, alternative education ... Alternative, it is so slippery, you know ...
              In the former Ukraine, the alternative history of the 23 of the year was taught, and how did it end?

              Jokes aside - to hell with all new-chrenologists and alternative specialists, who dream of rewriting and remaking. From this mess in my head and confusion with reeling. To hell... angry
              1. Rurikovich
                Rurikovich 3 May 2014 23: 10
                +1
                Do not confuse different explanations of the same thing! These are different things. In Ukraine, they taught the FABULOUS story that lard and dumplings appeared before Christ. I myself am against such nonsense! I am only talking about a more plausible explanation of some of the events of history than the one we are rubbed on. To come up with a nonexistent and explain what happened are two different things.
                1. Iraclius
                  Iraclius 3 May 2014 23: 14
                  +1
                  Is there a more correct story than that set out by academic science? smile
                  1. Vladimir73
                    Vladimir73 3 May 2014 23: 43
                    +5
                    "LN Gumilev is a Soviet and Russian historian-ethnologist, orientalist, doctor of historical and geographical sciences" (Wikipedia) - in my opinion, a brilliant representative of academic science. His works on the history of Central Asia (and not only) are recognized as academic science. repeat

                    Science for that and Science that should develop. If new facts have appeared (documents, archaeological finds, new methods for dating artifacts, etc.) that do not fit into the previously accepted picture of the interpretation of events, then why not new theories appear. It is no secret that errors creep in due to the incorrect translation of documents, the omission and suppression of any facts in favor of the seismic situation, and this is happening not only now but throughout almost the entire history of mankind. Gumilev wrote about this.
                    1. Iraclius
                      Iraclius 3 May 2014 23: 50
                      0
                      Gumilev wrote about this.

                      Yeah. Intentionally adjusting the facts. A theory is good if it is written to the preferences of the author.
                      Vladimir, I also drop by Wikipedia sometimes. Exclusively for the sake of links that are in her articles. What I wish you. hi
                      I do not detract from the achievements of L.N. as a scientist, but it would be better if he continued to study history and translations. For such passages just kill him on the spot:
                      “It was not clear how the passionaries themselves arise and how they differ from their fellow tribesmen. Another biologist, also a student, suggested the word: "mutation." But indeed! Only this is micromutation, which changes something in the hormonal system of the body and thereby creates a new behavioral trait. Man remains himself, but behaves differently. "

                      "Passionarity is a hereditary attribute, apparently recessive, since it is transmitted, bypassing children and grandchildren, to the great-grandchildren and great-great-grandchildren."
                      L. N. Gumilyov

                      Any biologist with a university degree will feel sick from a written quote, sorry.

                      We will not be guided by the medieval scholastic principle, referring to the authorities - Ipse dixit!
                      We will be critical of any newly emerging theories that strive to undermine the foundations of the worldview of the people.
                      1. Vladimir73
                        Vladimir73 4 May 2014 00: 17
                        +3
                        Quote: Iraclius
                        We will not be guided by the medieval scholastic principle, referring to the authorities - Ipse dixit!
                        We will be critical of any newly emerging theories that strive to undermine the foundations of the worldview of the people.

                        good Totally agree!
                        Just note that
                        Quote: Iraclius
                        Another biologist, also a student, suggested the word: "mutation."
                        those. there were consultations with experts in an attempt to figure it out, it is by being critical of this passage, take into account the time when it was and we did not know so much about the human genome as now. Many things are still explained by chemical processes in the human body, but I am more and more convinced that simple "chemistry" cannot explain everything. Why do we admire sunrises and sunsets? Why does he find a "quirk" and just go to wander without a goal ... request
                      2. Iraclius
                        Iraclius 4 May 2014 00: 33
                        0
                        It’s not a student, you are not paying attention to that part of the quote. Although here the absurdity turned out, why hide.
                        The author does not understand what a mutation is and misuses the word "recessive". If a person undertakes to make such a Copernican revolution in science, then at least he must own the appropriate scientific terminology, which by the time of writing his work had already been perfectly mastered. And then again, some kind of Lysenkoism turns out - loudly, pathetic, but not scientific. And this is not an isolated case - in the works of L.N. a lot of such blunders and inconsistencies. This does not attract science in any way. For a kind of philosophy or pleasant reading - yes. Science is not.
                        That's what it is about. No.
                    2. Iraclius
                      Iraclius 4 May 2014 11: 46
                      0
                      Minusovalschiki, you at least justify your point of view, otherwise it turns out some kind of kindergarten. smile I justify my own. Consistently, with quotes and their criticism.
                2. Rurikovich
                  Rurikovich 4 May 2014 00: 15
                  +1
                  Quote: Iraclius
                  Is there a more correct story than that set out by academic science?

                  There is one story that has a lot of different interpretations to please people who want (or do not want) to see themselves in it differently. This also applies to academic science. Someone decided that this was the correct interpretation, and not otherwise. New evidence to the contrary is declared fake and everything remains the same. No need to go far - the Bible. Why exactly 4 Gospels are canonical? Why are other writings from that era not evidence to the contrary? Someone decided that it should be like this. Everyone believes in it. And if you come back even closer? Already today it is being drilled into the heads of young Americans that Hitler was defeated by America over the past couple of decades. Will 100 pass? 200 years old? But we now know that it is not so. And in the future, thanks to this "illumination" of the truth, someone will think differently. Therefore, why should I believe what the academicians say about the alleged Tatar-Mongol yoke?
                  request .....
                  1. Iraclius
                    Iraclius 4 May 2014 00: 25
                    +5
                    RurikovichYou just don’t be offended, but you, like the majority of the population, have complete mess in your head. This is not your fault, this is the fault of the state, which for the last 23 of the year has been spitting from the Eiffel Tower on the historical identity of our people. This directly follows from the state of modern education in Russia. I will not compare it with the West, I just say that it is much worse than what was in the USSR.
                    And the consequence of this is that people who even graduated from the university do not understand terminology. Why did you decide that academic science and blind dogmatism are one and the same? What is scientific knowledge and what are the principles of scientific? What is objectivity and verifiability?
                    Forgive me for the abundance of questions, but I physically cannot give a lecture on the theory of knowledge to each of my interlocutors in this forum.
                    So, when you read about these interesting things, you will understand that in historical science nothing is taken from the ceiling.
                    And the canonicity of the books of the Gospel has nothing to do with science. This is just a consequence of the dogma of the Church, which, as you know, science is not a sister.
                    Sincerely. hi
                    1. Rurikovich
                      Rurikovich 4 May 2014 00: 54
                      +2
                      I was born, raised in the Soviet Union. And 23 years of spitting on my thinking did not do with me what is being done with modern oligophrenics. I still understand what is good and what is bad - I do not need to give a lecture on the theory of knowledge.
                      I would like to use less hard-to-read words. For the forums are not academicians, but ordinary people. I gave these examples for the simplest of many explanations of some points in the interpretation of history. Complex things for many are more understandable in a simple explanation. This you are now talking about the inconsistency of the dogma of the Church regarding science. But this is NOW as it is commonly believed. But there is no need to deny that you cannot know how THEN the Church related to science? And was there a concept of science at the time of writing the canons of the Bible? Again you may not know this. Cognition theories are good in the academician’s intercourse somewhere in the bathhouse, and not in explaining, well, so many inconsistencies in the interpretation of historical events. And personally, my opinion is that the story is much shorter and many of the events in it are simply invented and taken from the ceiling.
                      At school, if my memory serves me, in the glorious Soviet times they taught step by step, from simple to difficult. So do not explain many simple things to me by "verifiability". And complex explanations for simple things are given due to the inability to simply explain them. hi
                      Yes, yet, do not call porridge in my head a disagreement with academic science. Not the fact that academic science is right ...
                    2. Iraclius
                      Iraclius 4 May 2014 01: 06
                      +1
                      Folk historians turn to simplicity. So that everything was easy and clear. The people got excited and went to crush the enemies. Moreover, he is not to blame, but the challenges and landscapes are to blame. Just think, millions strangled in gas chambers. And as he crumbled, he immediately rewrote the whole story, and artificially made it too old, so as not to seem like an occupier. And all the enemy manuscripts / books / parchments became extinct and burned, so that it would be disgraceful for others.
                      Approximately the whole story comes down to this in the interpretation of Gumilyov-Fomenko-Tabov.
                      Everything seems to be normal.
                      But ... the point is that in reality everything is much more complicated. Simple categories do not explain complex social processes. And you cannot accustom people, youth, to the fact that historical processes are so rudely, primitively and one-sidedly presented for the sake of simplicity and accessibility. Ukraine is a good example.
                      V.V. they quickly realized with the advisers and the question of a unified history textbook for the Motherland had already matured. Remarkable, huh? 23 years of confusion and reeling - and remembered!
                      Those supposedly abstruse words are known to every first-year student and student - what kind of academicians? I always thought that our people are smart, educated and quick-witted, that you are so ...
                      And how did the Church relate to science then I know very well. smile

                      It was recalled, here is the eternal, Voltaire, about the trial of Galileo Galilei ...

                      .
                      Holy doctors are sitting in court
                      In clothes from an owl feather;
                      Donkeys on their head ears,
                      And to weigh souls as they should
                      Good and evil, the scales in their hands,
                      And the bowls are deep on those scales.
                      In one, the wealth they collected
                      The blood of those who repent with large vats,
                      And bulls, letters and litanies
                      Crawl over the edges of the second tub.
                      The most learned this assembly
                      Galileo looks at the poor
                      Who prays, kneeling down:
                      He was convicted only because he was right.

                      You're damn right, old Voltaire.
                    3. Rurikovich
                      Rurikovich 4 May 2014 01: 19
                      0
                      That is, you want to say that, for example, the explanations of certain events by the same Gumilev-Fomenko-Tabov are not correct? And that the explanation by more serious social processes in the modern interpretation is more correct than that of opponents? Then the explanation that the success of the October Revolution is due to the solidarity of the masses due to the tsarist oppression, the demands of the land to the peasants, and the demands of the factories to the workers looks more academic than the already available memories of eyewitnesses of those events that a handful of conspirators made a coup only from the fact that all the citizens sat and stared at how all this clowning would end due to the fact that such actions were performed with good regularity and were something like entertainment for St. Petersburg onlookers. It turns out that I have to believe more complex "social processes" than a simple explanation ???
                    4. Iraclius
                      Iraclius 4 May 2014 01: 29
                      0
                      The answer is simple and clear. You see thousands of stars in the sky with your own eyes 1,5-2. Does this mean that there are no more stars in the sky?
                      You take a telescope and see that there are more of them. Does this mean that there are no more stars? You take a telescope and ...
                      So, science only provides the tools of cognition, with the help of which we deepen our knowledge about the world around us.
                      And modern sociology can already answer your question - a handful of people are not able to provide a social shift. For this, appropriate political and economic conditions are needed. Therefore, yes, the academic point of view is more complicated and confusing, but, using an arsenal of scientific methods, it more fully describes the nature of events than the grandfather, who was sitting on the rubble and watching something there.
                      Differences of the so-called G-FT works are that they do not have science. Why is it not specifically with Gumilyov, I already explained - he could not formulate the essence of the key concept - the ethnos.
                    5. Rurikovich
                      Rurikovich 4 May 2014 01: 43
                      0
                      Okay, Gumilyov was taken apart. Then why does the same Fomenko, who has completed the titanic work of calculating dates, by the way, being an academician, not claim to be scientific. It seems to me that there is more scientific in his works than trepidations among historians who are unable to explain why Genghis Khan was fair-haired and blue-eyed? Tendentiousness?
                    6. bunta
                      bunta 4 May 2014 07: 48
                      +1
                      Quote: Rurikovich
                      Fomenko, who did the titanic work of calculating dates,

                      to pull the facts on your theory, you want to say. The fact is that any science does not exist by itself in its purest form. So physics is impossible without mathematical formulas. The theory of ethnogenesis is based on the general theory of systems. Ethnogenesis develops according to the same fundamental laws as biogenesis and technogenesis. LN talks about this everywhere from the very beginning. Ethnic development general system laws - This is the main conclusion of the theory. And then passionarity, chimeras, symbioses, phases and other things begin already.
                      So the first one is that the theory of ethnogenesis is built on the universal law of the emergence, development, and dying of systems.
                      The second - other disciplines (like mathematical formulas in physics) participate in the study of ethnogenesis: history, geography, linguistics, psychology, philosophy.
                      Thirdly, there are universally recognized criteria of scientificness (among which, by the way, there is a systematic nature) by which science can be separated from fiction.

                      Fomenko has none of this, except for the interpretation of known facts in the plane of his theory.
                    7. 11111mail.ru
                      11111mail.ru 4 May 2014 08: 48
                      0
                      Quote: Rurikovich
                      why was Genghis Khan blond and blue-eyed?

                      Dear, parents are responsible for Temujin (Genghis Khan). Everything in the child is determined by the genes, which he inherited in the ascending line. Your example is not convincing, since modern Mongols came to their habitat somewhere in the 17th century of the second millennium A.D. They are hardly related to those chronicle "Mongols" you mentioned (except for the name, of course).
                      Quote: Rurikovich
                      Okay, Gumilyova disassembled

                      If it were at a party meetingthen I would agree with you.
                    8. Iraclius
                      Iraclius 4 May 2014 10: 45
                      0
                      Again, we take the RAS bulletin "In Defense of Science" and read it.
                      And it turns out that the gentlemen of financial and financial science have allowed numerous cases of fitting results.
                      Their so-called the new chronology in the form of a mathematical model is not for the same reason.
                      Hopefully answered very simply.
                  2. 11111mail.ru
                    11111mail.ru 4 May 2014 08: 55
                    0
                    what
                    Quote: Iraclius
                    he could not formulate the essence of the key concept - ethnos.

                    However, he introduced this concept into scientific circulation. Most likely (this is just my opinion), having written the work "The End and the Beginning Again", where the stages of the life of an "ethnom" are considered, LN Gummlev considered his task fulfilled. If I were alive, I would probably give some kind of "canonical" definition of an ethnos to be carved on the pediments of historical museums around the world. yes
                  3. Iraclius
                    Iraclius 4 May 2014 10: 51
                    0
                    Quote: 11111mail.ru
                    However, he introduced this concept into scientific circulation.

                    Mr. 11111mail.ru, you, by chance, have the icons of L.N. no in the corner?
                    Something you soon all the exploits of Hercules and Prometheus ascribe to him. lol
                    The concept of "ethnos" was introduced into scientific circulation long before L.N. And also our compatriot, by the way, the ethnographer Shirokogorov.
                    Ignorance is a sign of our time. Vershkov grabbed, then taught others, excuse me generously ...
                    The works of L.N. so eclectic as the teachings of the Gnostics. A bit of anthropology, a little geography, a little history, a little ethnology, a little illiterate biology - voila! - the teaching is ready!

                    ***
                    It is impossible to give a definition to an ethnic group simply because at the moment biology is not able to give an answer to a seemingly simple question - what is the difference between living and non-living. So it goes...
                  4. 11111mail.ru
                    11111mail.ru 4 May 2014 13: 39
                    +3
                    Quote: Iraclius
                    you, by chance, have icons of L.N. no in the corner?

                    LN Gumilyov was a believer who innocently suffered for the non-existent sins of his parents-poets Nikolai Stepanovich Gumilyov and Anna Andreevna Akhmatova. From the totality of his previous convictions, it is not clear how else he survived? Portraits printed in his books (icon) are available. But the icon is serious, there is no need to boast. Of course, there are no icons in nature with the "face of LN Gumilyov".
                    Quote: Iraclius
                    Ignorance is a sign of our time. Vershkov grabbed, then taught others, excuse me generously ...

                    God will forgive. If they hadn’t done it, letting them work could have done more and better.
                    Quote: Iraclius
                    Definition of an ethnos is impossible to give

                    Well, it means that my humor turned out to be a bit heavy if they rushed to object.
                    Quote: Iraclius
                    A bit of anthropology, a little geography, a little history, a little ethnology, a little illiterate biology - voila! - the teaching is ready!

                    LN Gumilyov did not sin with anthropology. In history and geography, as it were, we were stronger than both of us put together. Ethnology, as a scientific discipline, has not been developed to the level of a serious science. About "illiterate biology" - it's on your conscience.
                    Do you also reject synchronism in the stages of development of ethnic groups?
                  5. Iraclius
                    Iraclius 4 May 2014 14: 17
                    0
                    The synchronism of the development of ethnic groups or peoples, if you like, is perfectly developed and studied within the framework of classical historical science and sociology. How can I reject him? Is it worth it to fence the garden and try to turn the basics of natural science for the sake of it?

                    ***
                    11111mail.ru, I wrote exclusively about the fact that it is not necessary to exaggerate the achievements of L.N. The man tried, he did not succeed. If once science can generalize factual material and draw conclusions confirming the correctness of L.N., then I will take my words back. Only this will never happen, since there is no science in his conclusions. Why - I have already explained in examples involving quotes from the works of L.N.
                  6. 11111mail.ru
                    11111mail.ru 4 May 2014 20: 16
                    0
                    Quote: Iraclius
                    The synchronism of the development of ethnic groups or peoples, if you like, is perfectly developed and studied within the framework of classical historical science and sociology.

                    I hope you've read Plutarch's "Comparative Biographies ..."? He was the first "simultaneous historian". LNG applied the same principle to consider the "emergence-development-decline" of ethnic groups.
                    Quote: Iraclius
                    since there is no science in his conclusions

                    And I was convinced by his graph of the dependence of "the number of passionaries on the lifetime of the ethnos" = this is the Maxwell-Boltzmann distribution curve (after all, I am a "techie").
                    Quote: Iraclius
                    using quotes from the works of L.N.

                    A quote is necessary when there is not enough time to think over a counterargument. I also repent of the frequent use of quotes. Sinful. recourse
                  7. Iraclius
                    Iraclius 4 May 2014 21: 40
                    +1
                    Plutarch used the concept of "ethnos" in the interpretation of Gumilev? No, even though the word is Greek. I repeat the question - why multiply entities beyond necessity, if there are long-known and familiar ones? You have not given an answer.

                    ***
                    If you are a techie, you should be aware of the probabilistic nature of the distribution curves. A L.N. sinned by fitting the results.
                    In the same way you can get any kind of curve. At least MB, at least Gaussian ...

                    ***
                    I cited the author’s quotes, which unambiguously interpret his ignorance in the matter under consideration. And biology and genetics in his mind-building is given almost a key place, mind you. What conclusion can be drawn here?
                  8. 11111mail.ru
                    11111mail.ru 5 May 2014 20: 31
                    0
                    Quote: Iraclius
                    Why multiply entities beyond necessity, if there are long-known and familiar ones? You didn’t give an answer.

                    Sir, you are repeating yourself, setting out your question again, having been discouraged, it would be more correct to say having unsubscribed not on the essence of the question, now you asked it again. So let's go through it again. Your hypothesis: there is no need for the theory of passionarity, because (forgive me if I am citing you incorrectly!) "There are psychotypes of temperament", to which I, in turn, answered you that L.N.G. brought psychotypes of these temperaments among the "passionaries". I have not received an answer from you to my objection. So "let's not multiply entities"! By the frequent mention of "Occam's razor" I feel in you a fan of VD Zvyagintsev. I read it myself, of course, Vasily Dmitrievich, until he finished writing (or wasted in frank madness).
                    Quote: Iraclius
                    If you are a techie, you should be aware of the probabilistic nature of the distribution curves. A L.N. sinned by fitting results

                    Sir, you surprise me! Spin the target disc counterclockwise and then cut the target. The distribution curve will change! You don't have to mention the "three sigma" rule. I know the meaning of the distribution of errors. He studied Mr. Gmurman in his time, although E.S. Wentzel, as it were, expounded more clearly. Examples of the Gaussian distribution for all stresses in the works of L.N.G. did not find something. It would be desirable to hear more about fitting the results.
                  9. 11111mail.ru
                    11111mail.ru 5 May 2014 20: 33
                    0
                    Continued:
                    Quote: Iraclius
                    I cited the author’s quotes, which unambiguously interpret his ignorance in the matter under consideration. And biology and genetics play almost a key role in his mind-building,

                    If you are an expert in chemical warfare agents, then you have a flag in your hands and three feathers in the appropriate place. And the historian L.N.G. for some reason you didn’t see? Asynchrony of ethnic development / regression of ethnic groups, observed as a stroboscopic flickering of events (phenomena), we received in the form of parallel processes, shifted in phase (sorry, by my first education I am a technician-energetic, and I understand the term "phase shift" as an advance / lagging place to be events for a certain time interval of the CYCLIC process).
                    Quote: Iraclius
                    What conclusion can be drawn here?

                    Based on the concept of "mermaid", we could get the false conclusion "Some girls are fish", and based on the concept of "round square" - that some squares are round. You cannot substantiate the falsity of L.N. Gumilyov's theory, because you are based on the denial of SOME of his theory, which is poorly substantiated by him. I cannot substantiate the all-encompassing properties of his theory, for, possessing the same postulates, when considering a particular stage in the development of EEP, two discussing (one of whom I) came to opposite conclusions (see Yesterday, 09:26 Quote: 1111mail.ru "Here and we observe the same process, only we draw opposite conclusions. Both seem not stupid, sadly. This allows me to conclude that LN Gumilyov's theory is still at the stage of development and is not yet suitable for practical application. "
                    ... due to its lack of knowledge ...
                    At this point, I propose to end the discussion. Let the readers of this thread take care of determining the formal winner. The result is like the Battle of Jutland ... uncertain. It is too early to bury the theory of Lev Nikolaevich Gumilyov, while those who love the wind of living history (not alternative) are still alive. I was glad to "wrestle" with you, and to "promote" the ideas of L.N.G. to the masses. Best regards: ergobak.
                  10. maximus235
                    maximus235 6 May 2014 13: 32
                    0
                    gentlemen, thank you for the pleasure in reading your discussion. It is a pity, however, that in the end there has been a transition to personalities, but they stopped at the time. Many thanks. :)
  • andj61
    andj61 6 May 2014 22: 18
    0
    I agree with you in many ways.
    Quote: Rurikovich
    Gumilyov’s reasons are not related to the investigation.

    This is not entirely true. It is impossible to describe the people, nation, country in all its diversity and diversity. Gumilev described some aspects on the basis of historical materials available to him, but not all of their diversity. But he gave his explanations for the events, his interpretations of the facts, which in itself is very interesting. But causes and effects are a moot point.
    Who gave a reasonable explanation for the appearance of Judaism in the Khazars - after all, Jews denied proselytism, did not convert to their faith. L. Gumilev gave an explanation - the beautiful Jews from Persia (the Jews were expelled from there), fell into the harems of the Khazar tarhans and the kagan itself, gave birth to children, raised them in Judaism - and after one, two or three generations the top Khazars became Jews! Unrealistic, but the fact was! And how it happened - only Gumilev explains!
    Well, still Fomenko. But it’s even worse. Khazaria - this is Israel. Egypt - Crimea, the Red Sea, whose waters parted - Sivash Bay, etc.
    By the way, the Black Sea was called the Red Sea, that is, red.
  • andj61
    andj61 6 May 2014 22: 04
    0
    Quote: Rurikovich
    Gumilev invented his "passionarity"

    Read his books! He very thoroughly substantiated the processes taking place in history. He posed questions that are not answered by modern scientists - and gave his very convincing explanation. I really liked his books Hunnu, Ancient Turks, In search of a fictional kingdom, Ancient Russia and the Great Steppe, Ancient Tibet, Discovery of the Khazars, History of the Hunnu people, Ethnogenesis and Earth's biosphere, The end and beginning, Millennium around the Caspian, Huns in China, From Rus to Russia.
  • voveim
    voveim 3 May 2014 08: 07
    +5
    In the old days, nomads and all kinds of crusaders are plagued by their raids, so our ancestors will put off their work equipment for a while, stand under the guidance of polite combatants and come to the enemy with a claim. Then they will see that the land of Basurman is good, but all overgrown with weed, so they will regret it, plow and sow it, and they will make friends with the locals, who are not very violent.

    Not only will they make friends, they will also breeze, and they will give birth to joint children!
  • Lyton
    Lyton 3 May 2014 08: 13
    +2
    Quote: NIVH
    Great is seen in the distance.

    Konstantin had fun. hi
  • Grenz
    Grenz 3 May 2014 08: 14
    +12
    In the fight against the enemy you need a leader. He is! And the retinue?
    The boys will go to the enemy, and in the rear the bad guys will (certainly will, they are already imprisoned for this) do a dirty deed.
    Heroes die on the battlefield - and the fruits of their victories are used by villains.
    So it was Bendery. Thousands of soldiers, officers and civilians were killed in the fight against this evil creature, and one political villain Khrushchev nullified all the achievements of victory. And he gave the Crimea and Bendera freed from responsibility. Armie reduced at the root.
    This is our problem - we’ll also break the enemy home, the results of victory are not consolidated.
    1. The centurion
      The centurion 3 May 2014 14: 03
      +3
      Quote: grenz
      Heroes die on the battlefield - and the fruits of their victories are used by villains.
      So it was Bendery. Thousands of soldiers, officers and civilians were killed in the fight against this evil creature, and one political villain Khrushchev nullified all the achievements of victory. And he gave the Crimea and Bendera freed from responsibility. Armie reduced at the root.

      In fact, this is an old dispute between Gogol and Dostoevsky. Gogol said that Russia has 2 misfortunes: fools and roads. And Fedor Mikhailovich responded to him that all this is there, but not the main thing. Russia has one main and big misfortune: corrupt, anti-Russian, anti-national, anti-people nobility and intelligentsia. I think he is right as always. And the current confrontation between the maydanutyh and our marsh pseudo-intelligentsia with Russia is another confirmation of this and not the last.
      Well, now a little touch.
      Lads Oh and sweet you bait, just a blunder. A weakly small test for Russianness. Every business starts with a small one, from oneself. Change Logins to Cyrillic, otherwise it seems to me that you have forgotten the Russian letters. It is not to the face of the Russian patriot to have a drive in Latin. So let's find out hu hu.
  • Naum
    Naum 3 May 2014 08: 34
    +8
    Yes, everything must be brought to an end. Including the fight against the enemy. Its logical end is the complete destruction of the enemy. As it is now done by the security forces with terrorists in the Caucasus. They are always "neutralized". Everyone. There is no one to "judge". They can be acquitted in court (it has already happened more than once). And so there is no bandit - no problem. And this is correct, and it should be so with everyone who has engaged in banditry. Finish the creeps in their lairs!
  • Combitor
    Combitor 3 May 2014 08: 34
    +5
    Now we will change the working robe to a military uniform and distribute chewing ties.
  • Prapor Afonya
    Prapor Afonya 3 May 2014 08: 59
    +5
    Yes, Russian intelligence, mercy, I have reliable information that dozens of Chechen field commanders are sitting in our vast zones, and according to their conscience, and according to the law of war, it would be worthwhile to shoot!
  • Gray 43
    Gray 43 3 May 2014 09: 09
    +2
    Harness for a long time, even when it would not hurt to hurry
  • 11111mail.ru
    11111mail.ru 3 May 2014 09: 40
    -1
    that the Russian ethnos, being in the breakdown phase, risks losing many of its lands and lives, surrounded by more energetic and prolific neighbors. Posted by FC Skiff

    The Russian superethnos, "thanks" to the chimera grafted in 1917, has long been (since about 1991) in the stage of obscuration. Increase passionarity artificially? Our "holders of shares" won't. The number of "harmonious people" is steadily decreasing due to the current policy, being replaced by subpassionaries.
    1. 11111mail.ru
      11111mail.ru 3 May 2014 16: 33
      +2
      Send cons, then hurt by the living. For those who have carefully read the works of L.N. Gumilyov, I reiterate that I believe that the Russian superethnos has been in the phase of obscuration since the end of the XNUMXth century. I am applying the schedule. The opinion of those who did not read L.N. Gumilyov did not interest me. Waiting for answers.
      1. Vladimir73
        Vladimir73 3 May 2014 18: 03
        0
        Quote: 11111mail.ru
        The Russian superethnos, "thanks" to the chimera grafted in 1917, has long been (since about 1991) in the stage of obscuration. Increase passionarity artificially? Our "holders of shares" won't. The number of "harmonious people" is steadily decreasing due to the current policy, being replaced by subpassionaries.


        Obobcheto Lev Nikolayevich made the assumption that the occurrence of a passionate impulse is also possible in the stage of obscuration. Although he himself says that according to his calculations, we are in the inertial phase. And here is 1991. tried to create a chimera, harmonics did not.
        He did not reveal the causes of passionarity, but only made an assumption about its occurrence against the background of the patterns he noticed. He himself speaks of a critical analysis of historical facts in the light of taking into account the real situation. L.N. Gumilyov also says that an objective assessment of current events is that it is possible only after a long time. Ave: just now there is a more or less objective analysis of the civil war of 1918-1921.
        1. Iraclius
          Iraclius 3 May 2014 21: 25
          0
          By God, it’s ridiculous to read the seriousness with which people defend pseudo-theories, the scientific nature of which has long ago been questioned by academic science, and L.N. he discredited himself by using the facts. This is the first thing. Second. L.N. volens-nolens gave such an impetus to the emergence of a whole scattering of such Istorians as Messrs. Fomenko, Nosovsky, Y. Tabov and other novo-hrenologists that he even managed to get lost among his "students".
          In order not to offend the truth at all, L.N. I will say the third - the only thing that is useful in his books is the abundance of historical factual material that is not published in school textbooks, such as the Battle of Talas.
          Sincerely, to the champions of passionarity. hi

          PS If it comes to that and you want to find the culprit of the ups and downs of social activity, then read the book, without exaggeration, by the titan of Russian and world science A.L. Chizhevsky - "Physical factors of the historical process", everything is simple, clearly explained.
          1. Vladimir73
            Vladimir73 3 May 2014 22: 01
            +2
            The pseudoscientists Fomenko, Nosovsky and others expressed a theory but did not substantiate it, therefore, I think it is wrong to consider their speculative conclusions as a contribution to science. L.N. Gumilev expressed a theory to explain well-known facts and little-known ones (and not "pulled by the ears" as the above-mentioned ones). In his works, one thought runs through a white thread - the facts must be interpreted from the standpoint of the critical. A simple example - just some 25 years ago, the simple phrase "A guy glued a model in a club" in the USSR had a completely different meaning than now and did not require clarification. A little over 1000 years ago it was considered the norm to bring human sacrifices to spirits, gods ... There are many examples in history.
            1. Iraclius
              Iraclius 3 May 2014 22: 08
              -1
              In the same way, as much later FiN, L.N. was engaged in a banal fitting of facts. Everything has long been studied in his opuses and analyzed in detail. The RAS bulletin "In Defense of Science" with a devastating analysis of his "works" was enough for me. His books are nothing more than lengthy fantasies of a well-read man, which gave rise to a dangerous growth among fans of rewriting history. I always hear with alarm the enthusiastic cries of people who foaming at the mouth defend the opuses of neo-pseudo-historians. Yours faithfully! hi
              1. Vladimir73
                Vladimir73 3 May 2014 23: 56
                +2
                I fully agree with you hi enthusiastic opuses alarming me too. Read the work of Gumilyov, there you will not see the thought that "it was so, and not otherwise, because I think so!" - there are clearly and reasonably given sources, facts (generally accepted, controversial) and the conclusions to which he came, but without a claim to the absolute truth of these conclusions. In his works, he teaches to think, reflect, look at the facts not only "from his bell tower" but from different sides.
                With all due respect, hi I think that it is wrong to dismiss a theory because it is not officially recognized.
                1. Iraclius
                  Iraclius 4 May 2014 00: 03
                  0
                  This is not a theory. It is a literary hypothesis that is colorful under which the author did not even manage to bring clear definitions of key concepts. I have not even decided what an ethnic group is - a phenomenon or an epiphenomenon. He did not give him an unambiguous and internally consistent, transparent definition. It allows cases of fitting facts, does not understand biological terminology, confusing the concept of binary nomenclature in zoology. He does not know what mutation, micromutation, and how hormones work. These are school basics.
                  And after that, you seriously offer me not to sweep something there? request Sincerely.

                  PS I read absolutely all the works of Gumilyov. And the translations from Persian are really wonderful.
          2. 11111mail.ru
            11111mail.ru 4 May 2014 09: 31
            0
            Quote: Iraclius
            the culprit of the ups and downs of social activity, then read the book without exaggeration titanium of Russian and world science A.L. Chizhevsky

            You can't trample against the Sun, of course. Here m. and the lines of "passionate impulses" are initiated by this object?
            1. Iraclius
              Iraclius 4 May 2014 10: 56
              0
              Gumilyov himself writes about this. His work was not original and full of borrowings. I do not remember, however, that he would refer to the titanic works of A.L. at the same time, but let this remain on his conscience.
        2. 11111mail.ru
          11111mail.ru 4 May 2014 09: 26
          0
          Quote: 1111mail.ru
          The Russian superethnos, "thanks" to the chimera grafted in 1917, has long been (since about 1991) in the stage of obscuration.

          Quote: Vladimir73
          And here is 1991. tried to create a chimera, harmonics did not.
          [/B]

          So we observe the same process, only we draw the opposite conclusions. Both seem not stupid, sad. This allows me to conclude that the theory of L.N. Gumilyov is still stopped at the development stage and is not yet suitable for practical application.
      2. bunta
        bunta 3 May 2014 21: 06
        +3
        I do not agree that the Russian superethnos is in the obscuration phase. According to Gumilyov, God forbid, the formation of the modern Russian superethtos is associated with the decline of the southern Russian ethnos - Kievan Rus and with the arrival of Batu. The symbiosis of the Mongolian and Slavic - gave rise to a new superethnos. So, in my opinion, we are in the breakdown phase.
        1. 11111mail.ru
          11111mail.ru 4 May 2014 09: 37
          +1
          Quote: bunta
          The symbiosis of the Mongolian and Slavic - gave rise to a new superethnos. So, in my opinion, we are in the breakdown phase.

          Do not add 1 years to the twelfth century and divide the result in half. The displacements caused by "chimeras" (Peter I and "Bolshevism") are able to shorten the time of the development / regression phases. No.
  • Kazbek
    Kazbek 3 May 2014 10: 27
    -9
    In the old days, nomads and all sorts of crusaders are plagued by their raids, so our ancestors temporarily put off their work equipment, stand under the guidance of polite combatants and come to the enemy with a claim. Then they will see that the land of Basurman is good, but all overgrown with weed, so they will regret it, plow and sow it, and they will make friends with the locals who are not very violent. So our country has grown to the sixth of the world.
    Well, how would everyone do it then wink just someone who did it well, and someone who does not. And the Russians also distinguished themselves by their "raids".
    So our country has grown to the sixth of the world.
    The standard excuse of the aggressor .. laughing
    P.S. Somehow at one of the historical forums, the following opinion was remembered:
    "After reading the works of Gumilyov in the 80s, I realized that the Soviet Union will disintegrate .."
    1. Argyn-suindyk
      Argyn-suindyk 3 May 2014 12: 12
      +10
      Kazbek, maybe you're right, but not this time, bro! In Ukraine, Russians are really killing by lawlessness. Raids by raids, Gumilyov-Gumilyov; but if in Uzbekistan they began to kill Kazakhs, we would not stand aside either. Agree !? Therefore, let them write, read, write again, read again, their right. But personally, I would send troops to protect my people, I don’t know what the GDP has been thinking for so long, probably something will happen soon.
      1. Kazbek
        Kazbek 3 May 2014 15: 19
        0
        Quote: Argyn-Suindyk
        Kazbek, maybe you're right, but not this time, bro! In Ukraine, Russians are really killing by lawlessness.
        Well, as if I hadn’t mentioned Ukraine and Ukrainians anywhere in my commentary ?! request
        Quote: Argyn-Suindyk
        but if in Uzbekistan they began to kill Kazakhs, we would not stand aside either. Agree !?
        And if the situation in Ukraine is imposed on Kazakhstan as follows: In Rossmi they will raise the howl about the "genocide" of the Russian-speaking population by the Kazakh national patrons. Look, and most of the shoviks on topvar think so. On the first, Russia-1 and NTV will show programs about the "persecution" of Russians in the Republic of Kazakhstan, in them Exorcist, Scandinav, Vasilenko, Sus and many others. others will tell you how "evil Kazakhs spread rot" crying .. There will be articles and TV films proving that SevKaz is "a primordial Russian land" ..
        And, at the end, the entry of the Russian troops into the North-East. K-n for the purpose of protection "from Kazakh punishers" am
        Quote: Argyn-Suindyk
        Therefore, let them write, read, write again, read again, their right.
        Ah, let’s write against it .. And I’ll write a four-thread to them ..
        1. Argyn-suindyk
          Argyn-suindyk 3 May 2014 20: 49
          +4
          In theory, anything is possible, but this requires fertile soil! With the above picture "sufferers" I myself clung to this "sick" topic for them! There is no such ground in Kazakhstan and whoever is after the National Academy of Sciences or the geopolitical GDP, we are in the same harness and now they want to "overwhelm" our neighbor and ally through Ukraine! If you read my early comments, you will see that I, too, do not shine with tolerance and tolerance, but now is a very threatening moment, serious and not very good changes are coming. Here, a huge country and people want to "bend", what can they say about us, especially with such a level of corruption and corruption of the state. leaders generally keep quiet!
          1. Kazbek
            Kazbek 3 May 2014 21: 27
            +3
            Quote: Argyn-Suindyk
            Everything is theoretically possible, but this requires fertile soil!
            As in that joke: Catch, shackle .. and prove that you are not a camel .. (natspat) recourse
            Quote: Argyn-Suindyk
            There is no such soil in the Republic of Kazakhstan and no matter who after the National Academy of Sciences or geopolitical GDP we are in the same harness
            Well, as if I myself think so ...
            But, as in the old Kazakh proverb - the tomahawk should always be at hand soldier
            Quote: Argyn-Suindyk
            Here a huge country and people want to "bend"
            Again, I agree. But there is one "but". Problems at the problem level are not solved. In fact, Putin brought the situation with Ukraine to the point that he had to solve it in a radical way. Those. the very fact that it has gone to such extremes speaks of the complete unprofessionalism of the Kremlin. Analogue with surgical intervention. As I think you know, as a rule, 90% of diseases can be cured at an early stage - in the case of timely diagnosis and subsequent mild medication. But the "disease" of Ukraine was launched to the point that nothing remains except for the use of force. But this is a classic tsuzwang negative
            1. habalog
              habalog 3 May 2014 23: 10
              +2
              Quote: Kazbek
              Those. the very fact that it has reached such extremes speaks of the complete unprofessionalism of the Kremlin.


              I am against the intervention of the Russian Federation in the internal politics of "sovereign countries". The second America of the world did not give up.

              Quote: Kazbek
              In fact, Putin brought the situation with Ukraine to the point that it had to be solved in a radical way


              Hm. The participation of GDP in this situation is no less than the participation of the NAS. What ?! None.
              Residents of Ukraine brought the situation to this point. Who is indifference, who is the desire to earn. When they stood on the Independence Square for hryvnias, what were you thinking about? When, with indifference and hatred, they betray their Homeland, calling it worldly wisdom. What do they think?
              1. Kazbek
                Kazbek 4 May 2014 11: 05
                +2
                Quote: habalog
                Hm. The participation of GDP in this situation is no less than the participation of the NAS.
                Surely ?! belay
                Quote: habalog
                What ?! None.
                Whose "polite chelovek" in Crimea will there be ?! Really goats!?! laughing
                Quote: habalog
                Residents of Ukraine brought the situation to this point. Who is indifference, who is the desire to earn. When they stood on the Independence Square for hryvnias, what were you thinking about?
                Well then, the Russians brought the situation to the collapse of the USSR and the position that the Russian Federation occupied in 90. When they supported Gorbachev, and then played for Yeltsin on the streets of Moscow ...
                What did the Russians think when they betrayed their homeland — the Soviet Union — with their indifference and hatred? repeat
                What did you think ???!
                1. habalog
                  habalog 21 May 2014 09: 36
                  0
                  Quote: Kazbek
                  What did the Russians think when they betrayed their homeland — the Soviet Union — with their indifference and hatred?
                  What did you think ???!


                  The same, apparently. I'm 25. Yes, I have no right to judge "fathers and mothers" for such an act. But this does not negate the fact that it is up to me and my children to disentangle the fruits.

                  Quote: Kazbek
                  As I think you know, as a rule, 90% of diseases can be cured at an early stage - in the case of timely diagnosis and subsequent mild medication. But the "disease" of Ukraine was launched to the point that nothing remains except for the use of force.


                  This is their choice. Residents of Ukraine are not a "lapdog" that the "Kremlin" can pull / decide for them how to live stop
        2. raf
          raf 3 May 2014 23: 02
          0
          kazbek, when in the Central Asian republics local Banderites began to massively oppress and expel from their homes and habitable places people of non-indigenous nationality, although they were born there, in Russia no one shouted about genocide and persecution of Russian speakers. And now what do we see? Half of Central Asia work, live, create their families in Russia. The current "rulers" of the independent republics, and strive to lie to the west, so much so that Westerners were pleased. Cyrillic was replaced by the Latin alphabet, they refuse to use the Russian language, and everything is for the sake of pleasure West.
      2. sled beach
        sled beach 3 May 2014 17: 42
        -4
        Why did you decide that "Kazbek" is Kazbek more like a Eurogea-provocateur, you shouldn't believe the drawn one right away.
      3. habalog
        habalog 3 May 2014 23: 01
        0
        Quote: Argyn-Suindyk
        I don’t know what the GDP has been thinking for so long, probably something will happen soon.


        Maybe the author of the ball is obliged to appear according to the script? This is not a trap for the Naglosak people - they have already worked for the tribunal and are going all-in, not even having a pair in their hands. Rather, for our comrades, "we will build a wonderful new world." It is quite possible - they have been spoiling the blood of the peoples of the world for a long time.
  • Yun Klob
    Yun Klob 3 May 2014 10: 48
    +6
    They burned fellow citizens in Odessa, they will burn them in the Southeast, only give the Nazis free rein. Now in the cities of the Southeast they are no longer fighting for a better life, but for life in general.
  • Lelek
    Lelek 3 May 2014 11: 09
    +9
    For your hard-earned money (this is relatively Odessa residents, nikolayevets, Kherson, etc.) you need to fight, not sparing the stomach. And if they don’t fight back a couple of hundreds of fascists, then it suits them. It is a pity only those who resisted and died heroically. Eternal memory to them. I grieve. soldier
  • silberwolf88
    silberwolf88 3 May 2014 11: 20
    +5
    Leo Gumilyov created a very integral historical concept. His historical books inspire confidence in the explanation of the historical process set forth in them. The author himself is a man of extensive knowledge ... the terms that he introduced (for example, passionarity) explain a lot ... synchronous tables give a picture of global processes in the world.
    1. ando_bor
      ando_bor 3 May 2014 16: 16
      +4
      In my understanding, a story without the laws discovered by Gumilyov is anything - ideology, fiction, journalism, an empirical set of facts, but not science. And he put forward the notion of passionarity, but he didn’t really work, giving a link to the very top, I think I just didn’t have time.
  • Polarfox
    Polarfox 3 May 2014 11: 29
    +2
    Quote: Yoon Klob
    Now in the cities of the Southeast they are no longer fighting for a better life, but for life in general.

    It's right. And so people have nowhere to retreat. This is a civil war, no matter what the benevolent Europe broadcasts. Is there anything more cruel and terrible in the world than a civil war?

    Then, when all goes well, the US will wash their hands, claiming that they were not in the know. Europe, having made a surprised mine, will dissolve snot about misinformation and intrigues of intruders. And the country defeated after the fratricidal war will fall into the arms of Russia, so that it would save at least what is left. And those who survived.
  • ia-ai00
    ia-ai00 3 May 2014 11: 59
    +1
    It’s only a pity that we never completely finished off enemies - we all have no time, etc.

    You are wrong just RUSSIANS DO NOT BEAT A BEDsorry to finish, damn it ...
  • GRune
    GRune 3 May 2014 13: 43
    +2
    It’s only a pity that we never completely finished off the enemies - we don’t have time to do everything, we are in a hurry to work, and then the disadvantages are gathering their strength, and again on us.
    If they had finished, they would have been called Anglo-Saxons.
  • foma2028
    foma2028 3 May 2014 13: 52
    +3
    let's create a petition - Obama for life presidents of the usa
  • foma2028
    foma2028 3 May 2014 14: 00
    +3
    author straight genius of photoshop
    1. ia-ai00
      ia-ai00 3 May 2014 15: 30
      +2
      Well, why, put on the beautiful LIK PUTIN in the guise of a bardaK?
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. siberalt
      siberalt 3 May 2014 19: 23
      +1
      Post your photo and wishes for someone to be like. There are millions of such geniuses laughing
  • sergei- morjak
    sergei- morjak 3 May 2014 14: 29
    +2
    According to Gumilyov’s theory, passionaries are capable not only of destruction but also of creation. And those who were on the Maidan are not passionaries; this is the most despicable and useless part of humanity; they are subpassionaries, unlike the other two parts of humanity, passionaries and harmonics according to Gumilyov’s theory, cowards and lazy people who can only scream, shit from behind, shoot in the back but run away with serious danger. Unlike them, harmonics who make up most of humanity can co-organize into a very serious force, but only in very serious danger. These people are the ones who are opposing the Nazis from the West now. So Gumilyov’s theory is not a hypothesis, but a completely strict theory reflecting the present state of the confrontation in Ukraine. It is clear that they are opposing the inhabitants of the Donetsk region, fighting by force and for money, and people of the South The East will be put to death. They protect their own lives and the lives of their families. They are difficult to budge, but if you move it you will not stop!
  • sv68
    sv68 3 May 2014 14: 45
    0
    we are Russian, but we also need to understand not everyone and do not always need to feel sorry, but we need to raise a lying person and if this is the enemy, then take him to the grave; Russia does not have the right to be good
  • 52
    52 3 May 2014 15: 37
    +3
    Cool stream of consciousness! I wanted to insert my seven kopecks into the discussion slot, but once, I have to work, I need to work, there is money payment.
  • siberalt
    siberalt 3 May 2014 19: 09
    +1
    Well, if according to Gumilev, then why did the whole globe sleep, like a living creature? Everything is as if true, but where does Russia, as a state? Or, again, the Russians responsible for the entire world mess, which we did not arrange?
  • bunta
    bunta 3 May 2014 20: 56
    +1
    Speaking about the theory of ethnogenesis, it would be worth mentioning the criteria of ethnos. According to L.N. Gumilyov, these are stereotypes of behavior, differences in worldview, attitudes to certain processes, and not the language. In this regard, Kazan Tatar is more Russian than a Maidan scumbag with a Russian surname throwing a Molotov cocktail into the building where people are hiding.
    An example is the attitude towards pederasty. What has always been considered a sin for the Russian ethnos is presented in Europe as the "norm" (c) Malyshev. Moreover, this attitude is blamed on us and artificially whipped up.
  • Iraclius
    Iraclius 3 May 2014 21: 35
    0
    Gumilyov’s theory does not describe the phenomenon of politics, economics, and the current outrage in the former Ukraine.
    1. ando_bor
      ando_bor 3 May 2014 21: 45
      +1
      And so it completely explains to me, the border there passes between the West and the East,
      and scribbles it specifically according to the 0th isotherm of January, the fact is that the border is the same "walks", and not only the "Gumel laws" work many other factors,
      as always in nature.
      1. Iraclius
        Iraclius 3 May 2014 22: 02
        +1
        Huh? But then, does not sausage Belarus on the other side of the isotherm? Or the border of Canada and the USA? lol
        Gumilyov’s theory that says about the drive of the father, Putin and banderlogov? The most passionate banderlog should gobble up Russia, Belarus and Poland, spreading from and to? fellow
        1. ando_bor
          ando_bor 3 May 2014 22: 23
          0
          The theory, it does not answer specific questions, it gives an understanding of the processes that are taking place, it gives me an understanding in general terms of what is happening now. But it is impossible to calculate the result, many other factors work like a paper airplane, and until the process ends where it falls it is difficult to predict, and if the ballistic projectile would be considered, there can be neglected others.
          I want to say that Gumilyov’s theories are ballistics in history, but Ukraine and other countries are planes. Ballistics also acts on them, but this is not the only force.
          1. Iraclius
            Iraclius 3 May 2014 22: 30
            0
            The fact is that the so-called. the passionate theory of ethnogenesis is not a theory at all. This is almost a hypothesis. And due to the fact that it does not even have an unambiguous and logically consistent definition of the key concept of "ethnos", it is simply not able to explain anything. Unfortunately, at present there are no mathematical models to predict and model the behavior of the social masses. The last attempt was made by Chizhevsky, for which the Bolsheviks punished him. Not allowed, they say. Yours faithfully! hi
  • Iraclius
    Iraclius 3 May 2014 22: 42
    -1
    If my opinion is interesting, then there is no passionarity in the sense that Gumilev gives him. There is a personality and its influence on the historical process. If there is a leader who can rally the people and organize them against internal and external threats, then the people will collapse in a single burst of mountain. There is no such leader - get disaster and oblivion.
    Simplified, rude, but the essence is as follows.
    1. ando_bor
      ando_bor 3 May 2014 23: 38
      0
      The personality only leads the historical movement, and they arise for other natural reasons, but as a result of "democratic elections" powerful personalities become at the head, but they do not move the people.
      As an example, the Mongols: at one time they moved around the world not because Genghis Khan led them, but because they were climped, they multiplied, the early rare tribes began to rub - united, and trampled over their expanded landscape, where they had no equal, and did not they couldn’t shout because the backs of the multiplying people props up (in principle, this is a passionate explosion), but for the peoples that the same changes appeared on the way were negative. At first Mongolia came to Russia - forests burn, fields burn, bread will not give birth, and then there are the Mongols.
      This is of course simplified, well, something like this.
      1. Iraclius
        Iraclius 4 May 2014 00: 42
        0
        Well, yes, yes ... Confused Russian peasants, armored Polish Khuzars, Minin and Pozharsky read your post in bewilderment. smile
    2. 11111mail.ru
      11111mail.ru 4 May 2014 13: 48
      0
      Quote: Iraclius
      If there is leaderable to rally the people and organize them against internal and external threats, then the people in a single burst of mountain will collapse

      Now, answer for yourself according to the methodology of L.N. Gumilyov. Who is he: passionary, harmonious, subpassionary?
      How V.S. Vysotsky sang there:
      We did not make a scandal - the leader was missing.
      There are few real violent people - there are no leaders.
      But the intrigues and nonsense of the network we have and nonsense,
      And the wicked intrigues of enemies will not spoil us!
      1. Iraclius
        Iraclius 4 May 2014 14: 34
        0
        In science, one should use the approach that provides the simplest explanation, i.e. use Occam's Razor.
        Entia non sunt multiplicanda sine necessitate. Entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity.
        In other words, why use the new conceptual apparatus when the concept of temperament with which people are born regardless of country, climate and religion is long known. The role is played by the simple personal qualities of a person-leader, multiplied by the knowledge, skills and support of his people. winked
        1. 11111mail.ru
          11111mail.ru 4 May 2014 21: 22
          0
          Quote: Iraclius
          why use a new conceptual apparatus when the concept of temperament has long been known,

          Sanguine, choleric, melancholic, phlegmatic? L.N.G. gave examples of passionaries of all these types. The main sign of passionary L.N.G. considered the desire for ideal, even with a risk to life, the ability to lead people who are not passionaries. As examples, remember the Prophet Mohammed or Luther.
          1. Iraclius
            Iraclius 4 May 2014 21: 45
            -1
            And at the same time he explained the emergence of passionaries by "micromutations at the hormonal level." Do you seriously believe in this? An ignorant humanist in the 60s may still be led by this, but given the achievements of the 21st century in genetics, this is already obscurantism. request
            Heredity, upbringing, religion, inner circle, moral principles, conscience ... There are many concepts and they are known long before the birth of L.N.
  • ando_bor
    ando_bor 3 May 2014 22: 52
    0
    So, in general terms, the reasons and mechanisms of "passionary explosions" are clear to me in general terms, of course, I have not met this theory in its finished form, and I did not invent anything myself.
  • raf
    raf 3 May 2014 23: 11
    +2
    Gumilev undoubtedly deserves respect, but his passionarity is already an intellectual mess, although he considered it an insult if he was called an intellectual. He should be shorter and clearer - the enemy is the enemy and must be beaten to utter destruction. Name things by their names, and spin around yes about.
    1. Iraclius
      Iraclius 3 May 2014 23: 20
      -1
      The devil, he, as you know, is in the details, and the subtlety of the hypothesis of L.N. lies in the fact that it provides another leverage for creating variegated nationalist theories. Just as the once seemingly harmless, but absurd in essence, racial theories of Count Joseph Arthur de Gobino gave a powerful tool to the ideologists of the Third Reich to justify monstrous crimes.
      Devil, he's in the little things. hi
      1. Iraclius
        Iraclius 3 May 2014 23: 55
        +1
        The minus, of course, is poorly explained. Usually, fanatics of the PhiN are limited to this.
        Folk history is therefore called, in fact. lol
  • tokens2
    tokens2 3 May 2014 23: 21
    0
    The basis of the passionarity of peoples has historically served as a means of profit and means of transportation, a horse or a boat ...
    I had to hope only for God's business (my article "Algorithm for Survival"). So I thought before the "Russian spring".

    Well ... in the 90s, passionarism went off scale along with vehicles, buses and trains. And these passionaries were called shuttles laughing
    But this drive came to naught along with the shopping centers ...
    Yes ... no high impulse (like-All to Mars! laughing ) there were no shuttles in the campaigns. But the scope ... and there was a gleam in the eyes.
    That Ermak did not want profit when he went to the East?
    And in the end, all sociological research, the "movement" of peoples (their rapid migration and explosive growth of self-awareness) became "food" for scientists with the queen of sciences in their heads - mathematics. These are translators of human history into numbers. Well, they, of course (these scientists) convince that they are geniuses ... and all their knowledge comes from space. Truth ... from human history.
    Perhaps this is why we now have rockets and nuclear power plants.
    Version only Version.
  • Aleksandr89
    Aleksandr89 4 May 2014 00: 38
    +1
    The theory is interesting, but largely controversial. According to Gumilyov, the late-Roman Empire is a classic example of the attenuation of an ethnic group: the loss of militancy, the pursuit of luxury, the loss of primacy in military affairs and the problems with the recruitment of soldiers in their army, who preferred to pay off. Russia, thanks to God, has not yet reached this point, although it is moving in this direction so far. In general, according to Gumilyov, the basis for passionarity is a variety of challenges for ethnic groups and the ability to overcome them moving forward.
    1. Iraclius
      Iraclius 4 May 2014 00: 46
      0
      T.N. Gumilev's "theory" does not explain in any way why the mighty Roman Empire disappeared, giving birth to a scattering of other peoples, and, say, Jews, Chinese and Armenians - some of the most ancient peoples - live and prosper. winked
      1. 11111mail.ru
        11111mail.ru 4 May 2014 09: 51
        +1
        Quote: Iraclius
        why the powerful Roman Empire disappeared

        Look at the graph of passionarity. Re-read the "End and Beginning" section in question. Everything is laid out on the shelves.
        Quote: Iraclius
        Jews, Chinese and Armenians - some of the most ancient peoples - live quietly and lively

        I will not describe the Jews, this is a completely different direction. Let's start with the Armenians. Those ancient Armenians who were born in Urartu, who studied the writing of Mesrop Masshots, and the modern ones are united only by the language, and even that is changing. Chinese - look at the same LN Gumilyov's chronicle of dynasties, again the Chinese are united by hieroglyphic writing. In how many hundreds of years does a language lose / change vocabulary by 50%? How not 500 years? So much for the "half-life". With L.N. Gumilyov, you missed a key thing = a stereotype of behavior. So there are no "eternal" peoples.
        1. Iraclius
          Iraclius 4 May 2014 11: 07
          0
          This in no way explains the reason that the native speakers of the Latin language of the most powerful empire became extinct, and the small people of the Armenian Highlands speak their language for more than two thousand years, despite the many waves of invaders and colonialists.
          So here is the hypothesis of L.N. shows his absolute helplessness.
          The middle empire, both in Antiquity and nowadays, is a conglomerate of many peoples (56 officially recognized) and nationalities that do not even understand each other and use different writing systems. And this conglomerate in various forms has existed for thousands of years. Again the failure of L.N. request
          1. 11111mail.ru
            11111mail.ru 4 May 2014 14: 02
            0
            Quote: Iraclius
            The middle empire, both in Antiquity and nowadays, is a conglomerate of many peoples (56 officially recognized) and nationalities that do not even understand each other and use different writing systems. And this conglomerate in various forms has existed for thousands of years.

            LN Gumilyov quoted a certain Bolotov: "A historian who does not know geography has stumbles" (excuse me, I quote from memory). Take a look at the map of the mentioned country. West of the mountain (and not small), in the north, rice does not grow, in the east the sea, in the south the jungle. Is that where the poor Han Chinese go? So: where he was born, there he fit!
            About Armenians: if Charles Aznavour did not know how to read and write in Armenian, then no one held him for the Armenian.
            1. Iraclius
              Iraclius 4 May 2014 14: 42
              -1
              The contradiction in essence - eternal peoples does not exist, but many successfully live for millennia and there is no end in sight. It's just that someone was lucky to be locked up in an unfavorable environment, right ?. And here, however, a prick - the Indo-European population of the current Takla-Makan desert for some reason died out, although it was also fenced off from the external environment.
              What about India? Tropical climate, waves of conquerors, Islam and British colonists, but as numerous tribes lived, they still live. And here geography is powerless. request

              ***
              About Aznavour - as the Armenians considered him theirs, they think so. Mkhitaryan from a neighboring entrance at the age of 68 years will not let lie.
              1. 11111mail.ru
                11111mail.ru 4 May 2014 20: 58
                0
                Quote: Iraclius
                And here, however, a prick - the Indo-European population of the current Takla-Makan desert for some reason died out ..

                Something that I do not catch your idea in the context of the question about the "eternal" Chinese people? I have substantiated the "eternity" of the Chinese that you are proposing with a geographic factor.
                Quote: Iraclius
                About Aznavour - as the Armenians considered him theirs, they think so. Mkhitaryan from a neighboring entrance at the age of 68 will not let you lie. How many people, so many opinions, and even the opinion of an Armenian neighbor can take place.
                “A Cossack who came to see us, someone deliberately wounded by serving and going to battle under the command of a Jew - Trotsky, objected vehemently and convincingly:“ Nothing of the kind! .. Trotsky is not a Jew. Trotsky is fighting! .. Our ... Russian ... But Lenin, that communist ... is a Jew, and Trotsky is our ... fighting ... Russian. "
                Remember L.N.G. when he suggested that the opponent determine the nationality of his mother, based only on the language (language).
                What did you mean when referring to India? In the light of our argument, of course.
                1. Iraclius
                  Iraclius 4 May 2014 21: 52
                  0
                  Indo-Europeans of the supposedly Tochar group (read my article, there is a link in the profile) lived in isolation in the current Takla-Makan desert. They disappeared. There are several reasons for this, but not one of them is connected in any way with the notorious passionarity.
                  The Chinese according to yours and L.N. versions have existed for so long thanks to favorable, isolating them from the external aggressive environment conditions. Why did the Chinese survive, and the Takla-Makan Indo-Europeans, the theory of L.N. can explain?
                  I mentioned India because there is a fertile climate that has attracted conquerors of all stripes for millennia, but many tribes have been perfectly preserved there during this time. What's wrong with their "passionarity"?
    2. 11111mail.ru
      11111mail.ru 4 May 2014 21: 26
      0
      Quote: Aleksandr89
      In general, according to Gumilev, the basis for passionarity is a variety of challenges for ethnic groups

      Sorry, but as far as I know, A.J. Toynbee elegantly ridiculed the challenge-response theory by Lev Nikolaevich.
  • siberalt
    siberalt 4 May 2014 08: 55
    +1
    "[quote = bunta] Talking about the theory of ethnogenesis, it would be worth mentioning the criteria of ethnos. Such, according to L.N. Gumilev, are stereotypes of behavior, differences in worldview, attitudes towards certain processes, and by no means language. In this regard, the Kazan Tatar more Russian than a maydan scumbag with a Russian surname throwing a Molotov cocktail into a building where people are hiding.
    An example is the attitude towards pederasty. What has always been considered a sin for the Russian ethnos is presented in Europe as the "norm" (c) Malyshev. Moreover, this attitude is blamed on us and artificially whipped up. "

    I support. + 100!
  • rocketman
    rocketman 4 May 2014 16: 00
    +1
    Come on you. FC Skif is a representative of the working class, he wrote a normal article, from the heart.
    What attacked him, what he read there or did not know. The meaning of the article is different. And he is right - the East has endured and slept too long. Now he woke up ..
  • Alexandr0id
    Alexandr0id 4 May 2014 22: 33
    +2
    by the way about the birds.
    with all due respect to Gumilev as a compiler historian, I cannot accept his theory of passionarity. I do not think people are some kind of limp lemmings, whose actions are subject to solar cycles, etc.
    Well, God bless him, with Gumilev.
    In the old days, nomads and all kinds of crusaders are plagued by their raids, so our ancestors will put off their work equipment for a while, stand under the guidance of polite combatants and come to the enemy with a claim. Then they will see that the land of Basurman is good, but all overgrown with weed, so they will regret it, plow and sow it, and they will make friends with the locals, who are not very violent.

    ancestors who with working equipment, as a rule, have never held weapons in their hands for a lifetime. and if it weren’t for the professionals (the same warriors, and then the recruits who had not seen anything for 25 years), and some irregular national minorities such as Cossacks and Kalmyks, they would have dragged the peasants in packs into the Mediterranean fleet to serve as rowers.
    1. 11111mail.ru
      11111mail.ru 5 May 2014 20: 45
      0
      Quote: Alexandr0id
      with all due respect to Gumilev as a compiler historian, I cannot accept his theory of passionarity.

      Yes, you have no respect for him sincere, if you write his name with a lowercase letter, his dad was Nikolai, but the name Leo. To accept / not accept depends not so much on the notion of ideas, but on the base from which one repels misunderstanding.
      1. Alexandr0id
        Alexandr0id 6 May 2014 15: 08
        0
        in my sideboard is a complete collection of his works, acquired back in the 90s and by the way fully read.
        it’s my tablet itself which places capital letters, and on the computer it’s too lazy to press the shift.
  • Angro Magno
    Angro Magno 5 May 2014 00: 33
    0
    An article in the topic.

    http://alternathistory.org.ua/zagadka-passionariev-versiya-sobytii
  • Beck
    Beck 5 May 2014 15: 38
    +4
    I respect Gumilev.

    But his theory of passionarity is not similar to the theory.

    "Theory allows UNDERSTANDING, EXPLAINING or FORECASTING various manifestations of the object of the theory".

    Passionarity has no cause. It appears unknown why it lasts for how long, ends suddenly, for no reason. Everything is in the will of the author, to whom to assign passionarity.

    Passionarity alone does not allow it understand objectively. There are no logical constructions to her explain. And there are no criteria for passionarity predict.

    Easily knowing past historical events, impose your own definitions on them and call them at least something like passionarity, surge, enthusiasm, movement, impulse, etc.
    1. 11111mail.ru
      11111mail.ru 5 May 2014 20: 50
      0
      For comment, plus you. Only if you had in mind Lev Nikolaevich Gumilyov.
      Try to explain the development / regression of the ethnic group yourself. I sympathize with you in advance!
  • Beck
    Beck 6 May 2014 02: 01
    +1
    Quote: 11111mail.ru
    Try to explain the development / regression of the ethnic group yourself. I sympathize with you in advance!


    And I will not try.

    My education is in the wrong direction. To explain the development / regression of an ethnic group, one type of education is not enough. One must be a historian, archaeologist, linguist, ethnographer, and more. Here is their scientific community and let them explain. And we will read and draw our modest subjective conclusions of the type - I believe, I do not believe, I understand, I do not understand, I agree, I do not agree.

    Therefore, your sympathy is in vain, in vain and there is nothing.
  • xoma58
    xoma58 6 May 2014 21: 57
    0
    http://www.inosmi.ru/world/20080916/244032.html
    although the fairy tale is old but how exactly then predicted today's events.
  • broneboy1
    broneboy1 8 May 2014 11: 18
    -1
    Ukraine has lived in shit for a long time, I apologize. For 20 years it rolled down and the people also demoralized with the country. Now there was hope for the best and people stood shoulder to shoulder.
    Without war, everyday life loses its meaning. Now those people of self-defense have a life sense, and they will go for these actions. You can die a hero, not a bag of shit.