Kurginyan: The threat of liberal revenge continues
"JOURNALISTIC TRUTH". Sergey Yervandovich, the first question is related to your transformation. You have been engaged in art and theater for more than twenty years, you were a well-known political expert - and suddenly such a breakthrough into the field of open public policy, the Essence of Time social-political movement, red columns on the March 15 rally. All this, on the one hand, is impressive, on the other - surprising, and on the third, it causes reproaches in the “political theater” or in “theatrical politics”. How is your transformation, this transformation seen by you from the inside?
Sergey KURGINYAN. Maybe it was someone who saw it as a transfiguration. But I always perceived what was happening as a combination of the game and stories. At the same time, the story that I understand as the movement of peoples ignited by a high ideal is for me the only thing that justifies the existence of humanity. And the game is what the elites do in the absence of a high fiery ideal and a popular movement based on the love of this ideal. Playing in this sense is not a blessing for me. But often it is a necessary evil. There is no fire ... Other people's elites are playing a game, which is fraught with the death of your state ... We must conduct counterplay ... And this is impossible if you do not understand the logic of the game, the nature of the game and so on. I have never considered myself as an expert or theorist, but always tried to somehow influence the decisions made - through the theater, through club activities, which I began to actively develop after the impoverishment of history, which caused the shooting of the Supreme Council House in 1993. And finally, through the publication of articles that have always devoted to the comprehension of history, the comprehension of the game, the simulation of counterplay, the awareness of the nature of the connections between the game and the historical beginning. I have always been doing just that. First of all - in the newspaper "Tomorrow" by Prokhanov, to whom I am obliged to become a public figure in some way, and I never forget it even in our very ungrateful century. And for all these years, several times I experienced the sharpest pain of the fact that, figuratively speaking, the story itself, and I myself ... Crowds of people, inspired by their understanding of the good, walk down the street, and you look at it from your windows Cabinet, analyze what game and how it is inscribed. And you ask yourself: “Is that all you can?” It was the same in 1991, and in 1993, when the defenders of the House of Soviets walked under my windows to Ostankino. I explained to their leaders in detail why the House of Soviets should become a point in the world, what a critical mass of those who resist, why it is impossible to attack the enemy first by shedding blood. I explained what should not be done and what should be done. I explained that the switch of the telecentre is in a completely different place, that the procession should be peaceful, with flags and icons, in a completely different direction - nobody listened and did not want to listen. In response, some strange barkashovtsy brought me out of the House of the Soviets on someone's orders. After that, the leaders began to do the exact opposite of what I insisted on, obeying the logic of another's game imposed on them. And inscribing history into this alien logic. And here I stand - I see how this happens, and I feel my helplessness. Total play provocation won. The historical energy of the masses very skillfully and quickly leaked to the bottom. And it was completely clear who was behind it. After such a counter-historical discharge, the story either fell asleep or died. The era of omnipotence of the game, the era of special operations and special services began. Then I created the Club “Substantial Unity” and started the game with the elites, knowing full well the brilliance and poverty of this game. Since I became the head of a serious analytical center that built relations with the UN, with other Russian, foreign and international structures, someone listened to me somehow, invited me to television from time to time, and so on. And then it so happened that literally out of the blue, the project “Court of Time” was born out of nothing, which was suggested by Natalya Petrovna Nikonova. She had just left Ernst, who had been her deputy for several years, on Channel Five. And immediately began to think how to create a super-successful project on it.
Yes, for whom - the show, and for whom - and a miracle. Jesus Christ also had a mission and, for example, His miracles with the breaking of breads, or with public healings of the hopelessly sick, or with the resurrection of the dead, can also be interpreted as a “show” from a certain point of view. And how did Nikolay Svanidze become your opponent?
Nikonov also offered him: “And if there is Svanidze, will you agree?” I have a lot of fun when they say that “The Court of Time” is a project of Svanidze or a project of the Kremlin. This is from beginning to end the project of Natalia Petrovna Nikonova. Nikonov firmly decided that I and Mlechin would be engaged in controversy, but I wanted to negotiate about the figure of the moderator. And I chose moderators in case I refused Svanidze. But I agreed. Since he understood that it would be harder though, but more significant if successful. But only success was needed, and a crushing one. I immediately warned Nikonov that I did not present myself, but a certain idea, and therefore I work before the first defeat - defeat will compromise not me, but the idea that I represent. And suddenly it turned out that 88-89% of viewers support this idea ... It was a shock for everyone. For some - professional, for others - ideological.
And then?
And then Nikonov went to Channel Two. And soon she organized a second project there - “The Historical Process”, where Svanidze and I argued without an intermediary. In a break between two television projects, I decided on the Internet project “The Essence of Time”, which turned out to be unexpectedly extremely successful. And the “Historical process” soon faced a new truly historical situation that arose after an eighteen-year hiatus. Again, the mass of people on the streets ... Again, passions are boiling over certain ideals ... The “historical process” could either die or become part of these historical street actions. He became part of these actions. Svanidze lost - even more crushingly than Mlechin. I managed to accomplish what I swore to myself in 1993. I became part of a new historical flow. This stream, thanks to the movement “The Essence of Time”, was able to subordinate to the will of the majority and to send in a constructive, not destructive direction. Then the question arose: how long? I heard all the right words about our history from the TV screen and were heard by the country. I won with a dry score - more than sixty. Continue - then it turns out that this is really just a show. That everything in the country is changing, except for the battles between Svanidze and Kurginyan. And most importantly - the awakening of history. In the country, after a long break, it again smelled the real politics and energies of large human masses. And I am convinced that the TV programs “The Court of Time” and “The Historical Process” played their part here. And most importantly - the Internet program "The Essence of Time" and the movement created on its basis.
Do you associate the awakening of history with the Swamp area?
Yes. After all, I felt that the Kremlin “The Court of Time”, where there were very liberal people in 2010-2011, allows for a reason to exist. I realized that the idea of social justice and - more broadly - the “red idea” is needed by someone for purely playful use, and especially destructive. I had to, according to the players' plans, podraskach red passions and move aside, transferring the energy of the masses to Zyuganov, who would lead this energy to the Swamp area. Realizing that this is a game and realizing that there is little counterplay, I used some kind of historical potential. And on the principle of anti-show. It was on this principle that the “Essence of Time” online program was founded, to which not hundreds of people were drawn, but tens of thousands.
I love it when the names change a little, thus emphasizing continuity. So, the "Court of Time" is closed, let it be "The Essence of Time." My son-in-law was filming my first speech with a direct camera: a talking head, nothing more. And we waited for the club site instead of the usual 150-200 people to be 600-700, an increase in 4 times, very good numbers. But when in the first days there were 25 thousands of visits, I felt that something had happened in society. People wanted to understand what was wrong with them and where to go next. It was March 2011. Then I made the most courageous step in my life - I invited my viewers to record in the virtual club “The Essence of Time”. For a month, thousands of 30 enrolled. And then I invited them to gather in the cells in real life and participate in a sociological survey on the topic: “Are you for or against de-Stalinization in Russia?” And people brought tens of thousands of completed questionnaires, collected them by neighbors, friends, by train, anywhere. And it became clear that this is no longer a fan club named after Sergey Kurginyan, this is something fundamentally different, some kind of unrecognized, “not caught” opportunity to leave the alien gaming scenario. And then a new TV program “The Historical Process” appeared, which Natalia Petrovna Nikonova created on Channel Two. In my opinion, there has never been anything so complicated in world television representing different points of view. The show went on the air when I opened the first school of the movement Essence of Time in the town of Khvalynsk in the summer of 2011. More 300 people gathered at the school. They boiled, rustled, argued. I tried to somehow influence this protopolitical broth filled with different energies. The broth was humanly very promising, ready to exit from the protopolitical stage. But how do you organize this exit? It was clear that this should be ensured a) ideologically, b) staffing. Being aware of the special importance of the personnel moment, I completely reoriented my entire center to this school. We did nothing else. I waited for the return of the story. I knew she would be back in the late fall. And that it would be shameful not to prepare for this return.
Preparing sleighs in summer, knowing that winter will come?
Yes. Before 7 in November 2011, members of The Essence of Time approached me and said: “We want to hold a mini-rally. You do not mind? ”Coming to the metro station“ Street 1905 of the Year ”, I saw on the square people 300 members of the movement“ The Essence of Time ”. For starters, it was quite good. And here I thought: “The liberals want me to actually transfer the people's energy into their hands. But here it is, the people's energy. Why should we hand her over to strangers — unconditionally dirty hands? ”Then I already understood that liberal elite Kremlin players didn’t want Zyuganov to defeat Putin in the 2012 election. Their calculation was to declare the elections rigged, fitting as much of the social protest population as possible under this slogan, including under red flags. And to make it so that the one who did not participate in the elections passed for the presidency. And when, after the elections to the State Duma, a protest rally was announced “for fair elections,” I immediately announced a counter-rally on the Sparrow Hills. And worn on different parties and public organizations, agreeing on their participation. It came about 4 thousand people. At the Swamp, thousands of 25-30 gathered then, but in terms of energy, we were not even more efficient than them, it was all so hot. And we symbolically burned the white ribbon, said “No!” To this “snow revolution”, which was conceived in very high offices both in Russia and abroad. After that, politicians, businessmen, and anyone else came to me. As a result, on Poklonnaya Hill, we gathered about 150 thousands of people. They say that the bureaucracy brought them from Lyuberets and other places. First, in Lyubertsy there is not only bureaucracy. Secondly, if 150 thousands of people arrived by bus, then 3 thousand buses would be needed. Can you imagine such a number? Moscow would have stood tightly. Poklonnaya mountain - a project of the Kremlin? Is full The President of Russia said after the Poklonnaya Hill, and it’s very heartfelt that you won’t collect 150 thousands on the administrative resource. Everybody understood this - both Kremlin specialists and “swamp oppositionists”. I was one of the leading rally. The second lead was Shevchenko. Everyone was waiting for Zyuganov to come. He promised to come and did not come. Opening the rally, I said that I was opposed to Putin’s policies, but I consider it necessary to gather all the patriotic forces for a rally in order to prevent an orange coup. I knew that such a statement was, to put it mildly, not without a miss. But history is a thing that can work wonders with those who are significantly involved in its actions. My involvement in this action led to the fact that I somehow realized and felt: several thousand young people who came to Sparrow Hills and launched an anti-orange street mechanism that gave rise to Poklonnaya Hill are my destiny.
An outside observer after the rally on Poklonnaya Hill, after the presidential election, could get the impression that you were moving somewhere aside. Is this true, and if so, why?
No, it's just that our primary political goal has been achieved, the “swamp project” has failed. As for the Essence of Time itself, she needed time to get formalized. And there was a need for a new large-scale goal, commensurate with the “Essence of Time” bid for changing the global vector. This goal was to protect the traditional values of society, including the fight against juvenile justice. And when it came to the possibility of exporting “Maidan” to Russia, we marched through the streets of Moscow in red columns, so that everyone would know that there would not be a repetition of the Ukrainian version.
Sergey Yervandovich, and how do you think the Ukrainian events in Russia respond in general, what prospects did the “fifth column” have in connection with the coming to power of the “Maidan” junta? How do these processes threaten today the socio-political stability in our country?
I know perfectly well how closely Russia and Ukraine are. What happens in Ukraine comes to us after a while. And vice versa. The actions of the “swamp opposition” in the winter of 2011-2012 did not turn into the Russian Maidan only because we quickly managed to organize massive “anti-boggy” performances, much larger in scale and energy than opposition rallies. And if those people from the south-eastern regions of Ukraine, who are now taking office buildings, could go to Kiev, if there were someone to organize and direct them, there would be no “victory of Maidan” in Ukraine. And today it is, and this is a considerable problem for Russia. After all, there were more than a thousand Russians on the Maidan, who have now returned here. They did not hide their plans: if they start there, they will continue here. Of course, after the reunification of the Crimea, which I consider Putin’s great historical merit, because for the first time in 23, Russia has gained shame and not lost something - the support of Russian liberoids from our society has fallen, if I may say so, below the baseboard. And it has removed many problems from us. But the threat of liberal revenge in Russia remains, and it should not be overlooked.
Thank you so much for this conversation, we hope for the cooperation “Essence of Time” with our newspaper.
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