Military Review

US destroyers conventions are not written

113
US destroyers conventions are not written



Recently, the third US military ship, the destroyer Donald Cook, and the French military intelligence ship Dupuy de Lome entered the Black Sea through the Turkish Bosphorus and Dardanelles straits. Shortly before the Russian Foreign Ministry announced a violation by Turkey and the United States of the Montreux International Convention (1936), which regulates the duration of presence and tonnage of foreign military vessels in the Black Sea basin. But the American and Turkish sides ignore Moscow’s position. The West clearly demonstrates military force in connection with the situation in Ukraine and with the reunification of Crimea with Russia.

The well-known Turkish political scientist Fatih Er actually confirmed that these (NATO) "invasions" are addressed primarily to Russia.

In view of the increasingly frequent "visits" of NATO military ships to the Black Sea, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said that "the extension of the stay of the US Navy ships in the Black Sea often exceeded the deadlines set by the International Montreux Convention."

S. Lavrov clarified: “According to the Montreux Convention on the Status of the Straits, warships of countries that do not have access to the Black Sea can be in its water area no more than 21 days, and significant restrictions on the class and tonnage of the vessel have been introduced for them”.

According to the Russian Foreign Ministry, “The USS Taylor frigate entered the Black Sea 5 February, and the Mediterranean Sea 9 March this year, which 11 days exceeded the maximum allowed period and, accordingly, is a violation of the Convention. At the same time, the Turkish side did not inform us in due time about this delay. For our part, our concerns were brought to the attention of the American and Turkish sides in the form of verbal notes. ”

Recall that since Russia's access to the Black Sea and the expansion of its Black Sea territories, ensuring their security has always rested against the Turkish policy on military navigation through the Dardanelles - the Sea of ​​Marmara - the Bosphorus.

Russia's proposals to ban entry into this artery between the Black, Aegean Seas and the Mediterranean to the military courts of non-Black Sea countries have always been rejected by European powers and Turkey, and after the First World War - by the United States.

For example, the Crimean War (1853-1856) of the western coalition against Russia was made possible by the free access of European naval forces through the same straits. During the intervention of the Entente in Russia in 1918-1919. The western fleet also freely passed through these straits not only to the Black Sea, but also to the Azov and Danube ports of Russia. It is worth recalling that the allies of Russia categorically objected to the Russian naval operation in the Bosporus and the Sea of ​​Marmara during the First World War, which would quickly lead Turkey out of the war.

In 1915, the Entente wanted to seize Constantinople and, thus, close the Bosphorus and the Sea of ​​Marmara from Russia, but in vain! It was an unsuccessful Gallipoli operation 1915 of the year, conducted without the participation of Russian troops. However, in the course of the previous Russian-Turkish wars, the European powers threatened Russia with almost a collective invasion of its territory, if Russian troops “dared” to join Constantinople and capture the Bosphorus. But the perennial and numerous bloody battles of the troops of Russia and Turkey in the Balkans and in the eastern Turkish mountains, including in 1914-1917, did not cause discontent among the European powers: let more Russians and Turks kill each other. And although after the 1918 year, until the middle of the 1930, there was a warming of Soviet-Turkish relations, Ankara did not agree with the proposal of Moscow for the indefinite demilitarization of the straits and about the bilateral-Soviet-Turkish military provision of their security.

Under pressure from London, Paris and Washington 24 July 1923 was in Lausanne (Switzerland) signed an international Convention on the regime of straits. It was signed by the United Kingdom, France, USSR, Italy, Japan, Greece, Romania, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia and Turkey. The Convention provided for the demilitarization of the straits zone, but allowed free passage through the Bosphorus, the Sea of ​​Marmara and the Dardanelles, not only trade and passenger, but also military vessels of any country. Therefore, the USSR has not ratified the Convention. As follows from the statement of the Soviet NKID, "... due to the lack of adequate security conditions for the straits, the Black Sea basin as a whole and, accordingly, the southern borders of the USSR." In the future, the Soviet side was able to achieve a partial revision of the regime for the straits.

In the Swiss city of Montreux on July 21 1936, the current Convention on the status of the straits was signed. It was signed and ratified by the USSR, Turkey, Great Britain, France, Bulgaria, Romania, Greece, Yugoslavia, Bulgaria and Japan.

The document retains the freedom of passage through the straits in peacetime and wartime for commercial vessels of all countries. But the mode of passage of warships is different for the Black Sea and non-Black Sea states. With prior notice to the Turkish authorities, the Black Sea countries may, in peacetime, conduct their warships of any class. And for military courts of non-Black Sea states, class and tonnage restrictions have been introduced. Only small and auxiliary surface ships can pass here, and the total tonnage of non-Black Sea military ships in the Black Sea should not exceed 30 thousand tons, although this volume may increase to 45 thousand tons if the Black Sea countries increase their naval forces in the region. The stay of "non-Black Sea" military ships was limited to 21 days (Moscow insisted on 14 days, but the British achieved more).

As for the policy of Turkey in the straits, the following rules were introduced by the Convention: if Turkey participates in the war, and if Turkey considers that it is threatened by war, the Turkish side has the right to allow / prohibit passage through the straits of military vessels of any countries. And during the war, in which Turkey does not participate, the straits are closed for the passage of military courts of any belligerent power.

In addition, the Montreux Convention abolished the International Commission on the Straits established by the Lausanne Convention, its functions, and with them sovereignty in this region, were transferred to Turkey.

But during the Great Patriotic War, the Turkish straits were used by Germany and its allies for operations against the USSR. Seeking to smooth out such a hostile policy on the straits, at the end of February Turkey 1945 declared war on Germany and Japan. And since mid-April, 1945 has allowed the delivery of allied cargo to Soviet ports via the Dardanelles, the Sea of ​​Marmara and the Bosphorus. The total volume of these shipments to the Black Sea ports of the USSR in 1945 for the year amounted to 681 thousand tons, which roughly corresponds to 5% of all allied supplies to the USSR. Over 300 thousand tons arrived in Batumi, up to 100 thousand tons - in Poti, the rest of the cargo was accepted by the ports of Sukhumi and Tuapse. However, the USSR 19 March 1945 of the year denounced the Soviet-Turkish Treaty on Friendship and Neutrality (December 1925).

And then, 7 June 1945, V.M. Molotov told the Turkish ambassador to the USSR S. Sarper that “the desirable conditions for concluding a new agreement are a regime exclusively for the Soviet-Turkish control in the Black Sea straits and their demilitarization. With the deployment in this area of ​​the Soviet naval base under a long-term lease ”(similar to the Soviet bases of Porkkalla-Udd in Finland or the Far in China in 1945-1955). But Ankara rejected these projects.

At the beginning of the Potsdam Conference, Molotov repeated these proposals, adding that "... we have repeatedly stated to our allies that the USSR cannot consider the Montreux Convention correct."

Then the problem was discussed with the participation of Stalin himself, who refuted the thesis about the threat of Turkey from the USSR. Noticing that “the Turks in the region of Constantinople have more than 20 divisions, perhaps 23 or 24 divisions. And, owning the Straits, a small state, supported by England, holds a large state by the throat and does not allow it to pass. ”

Britain and the United States vigorously stood up for Turkey and for the Montreux Convention. But under pressure from the USSR, and taking into account the pro-Soviet position on this issue of Greece, adjacent to the straits, section XVI “Black Sea Straits” of the final conference protocol said: “The Convention on the Straits concluded in Montreux should be revised as not meeting the conditions of the present. We agreed that, as a next step, this issue will be the subject of direct negotiations between each of the three Governments and the Turkish Government. ”

But Moscow decided to independently “press” Ankara. 7 August 1946, the government of the USSR issued a note in which the above-mentioned requirements were repeated. However, this time unequivocal support for Turkey was expressed by the United States and the United Kingdom. Already at the end of the 1940s in Turkey, including in some of its Black Sea regions, the US military and intelligence bases appeared, and in February, 1952, Turkey and Greece joined NATO. Thus, the NATO Navy in the Black Sea received a blank check. Moreover, the Montreux Convention, we repeat, does not preclude the presence of "non-Black Sea" Navy in this basin.

And on May 30, the Soviet government officially refused the Stalinist demands, and in the future, the USSR never raised the issue of the straits regime. Even during the Caribbean crisis (October 1953). In Moscow, they feared to repeatedly “put pressure” on Ankara, which could provoke an increase in the US military presence and, in general, NATO in the Black Sea region. At the same time, according to the available data, NATO, including Turkey, in the 1962's - 1960's. at least 1980 once violated the Montreux Convention military conditions. There is a version that NATO naval intelligence has a hand - again through the straits - to destroy the battleship Novorossiysk in 30 near Sevastopol ...

During the preparation and holding of the Helsinki Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe (early-mid 1970-x), the United States, the United Kingdom and Turkey made it clear that they are not inclined to change anything in the Convention and that a return to this issue may postpone the signing of the final Act . Moscow chose not to lengthen these terms. And in 1991-1992. The Russian Federation, Ukraine and Georgia joined the USSR instead of the Convention.

Today it is obvious that the Montreux Convention, while retaining the possibilities for direct and indirect military-political provocations against Russia, is quite convenient for the West.

Moreover, with the current openly hostile relations of the Kiev junta to Russia, as was the case, say, during the period of Georgia’s armed conflict with Russia in 2008. Therefore, it is hardly possible for the countries-signatories of the Montreux Convention to create, for example, a commission to verify the implementation of all the rules of this document or to clarify them.

By the way, the USSR in the second half of 1940-x - the beginning of 1950-x repeatedly offered to create such a commission. The idea was supported by Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Romania, Greece. Western countries and Turkey did not respond to such proposals. But if the provisions of this Convention can be violated even by non-Black Sea countries, and without consequences, then Russia will have to look for symmetrical answers. And do not appeal more to the Montreux Convention, which is not respected by other signatory countries, located, we note, far away from the Black Sea ...
Author:
Originator:
http://www.stoletie.ru/geopolitika/amerikanskim_esmincam_konvencii_ne_pisany_627.htm
113 comments
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  1. Riperbahn
    Riperbahn April 24 2014 19: 34
    0
    "Novorossiysk" - which side?
    1. maks-101
      maks-101 April 24 2014 19: 52
      +33
      you need to carefully drown an American-type boat on a mine ran into the past war.
      1. clidon
        clidon April 24 2014 19: 59
        -1
        Then the misfortune can happen in us in the Mediterranean, with the same Kuznetsov.
        1. Rus2012
          Rus2012 April 24 2014 21: 51
          +2
          Quote: clidon
          Then the misfortune can happen in us in the Mediterranean, with the same Kuznetsov.


          Marimans will confirm that this can always happen to naval vessels. Therefore, anti-sabotage, anti-submarine forces of ships are always on guard in combat readiness. It’s like a garrison guard with armed sentries guards the assigned post.
          The outfit assigned for the guard-defense of ships on raids is armed, among other things, with hand grenades, which are used without warning for suspicious noises in the water and ...
          The underwater hulls are regularly inspected by divers ...
          1. jjj
            jjj April 24 2014 22: 33
            +1
            But could it be that the crew of this glorious American steamer managed a few weeks ago when the Su-24 circled over them. Something news managed to grow a beard
            1. crazyrom
              crazyrom April 24 2014 23: 16
              +1
              Donald cook hehe
          2. And Us Rat
            And Us Rat April 24 2014 23: 11
            -3
            Quote: Rus2012
            Marimans will confirm that this can always happen to naval vessels. Therefore, anti-sabotage, anti-submarine forces of ships are always on guard in combat readiness. It’s like a garrison guard with armed sentries guards the assigned post.
            The outfit assigned for the guard-defense of ships on raids is armed, among other things, with hand grenades, which are used without warning for suspicious noises in the water and ...
            The underwater hulls are regularly inspected by divers ...

            And on the NATO ships all amateurs, and about such precautions - neither sleep, nor spirit. Did I understand correctly? laughing Judging by the comments, a midshipman on a boat with a squad-throwing installation is enough against them wassat
        2. Berkut-UA
          Berkut-UA April 24 2014 21: 56
          +3
          Well, as a continuation ... after the disaster with Kuzya
          an umbrella may open over Pearl Harbor ...
          atomic what
      2. Camouflet
        Camouflet April 24 2014 22: 06
        +3
        Quote: maks-xnumx
        you need to carefully drown an American-type boat on a mine ran into the past war.

        For starters, to screw the screws on a fishing net from a steel cable into a thick hand.
    2. andrewvlg
      andrewvlg April 24 2014 20: 01
      +12
      Quote: Riperbahn
      "Novorossiysk" - which side?

      Yes, it seemed to me out of place.
      I would also like to draw your attention to the fact that in the event of an acute conflict between NATO (Turkey) and the Russian Federation, no one will observe any conventions (like now). So, while the straits are in the hands of Turkey, one can ignore all this "scribbling", which, apparently, was understood in the Soviet Union.
      1. avg
        avg April 24 2014 20: 13
        +9
        Yes, Lavrov simply trolls mattresses. Having entered the Black Sea, the US Navy frigate USS Taylor ran aground, damaged screws and the hull, and was being repaired in Turkey. For this reason, it was delayed by more than 21 days. laughing
        1. max702
          max702 April 24 2014 21: 06
          +2
          All this is good and just wonderful .... BUT WHAT TO DO? Truly what to do? Then another destroyer will come there and stay for a month .. what shall we do? To drown? Suppose we can do it, but will we decide? The big question is, it will still pull the third world war, and how. But in my amateurish opinion, even if we drown them and there will be no war, we have nothing to lose, but the enemy has a very, nuclear winter is clearly not included in their plans .. Consequently in the event of drowning, they will drown, make noise and shut up. Only it is necessary to do this as efficiently and preferably as effectively as possible, so that they get to the point of trembling to weakness of the intestines and other signs of scoring ..
          1. antiaircrafter
            antiaircrafter April 24 2014 21: 42
            +4
            Quote: max702
            BUT WHAT TO DO

            To put pressure on the psyche, practicing training bombing.
            1. Rus2012
              Rus2012 April 24 2014 21: 56
              0
              Quote: antiaircrafter
              To put pressure on the psyche, practicing training bombing.

              according to the convention of Montreux - vessels violating can be destroyed ...
          2. S_mirnov
            S_mirnov April 24 2014 22: 03
            -1
            Despite the comments on this site, that America is ending, that the dollar is gov-oh, etc. America behaves like a master of the world and is not going to bend ...

            Quote: max702
            Truly what to do?

            To create a powerful combat-ready army, but for this it is necessary to take the property of the Russian Federation from the oligarchs and foreign capital, otherwise nothing, otherwise there is not enough money from the sale of natural resources on retirement. But this really needs political will, but only the president relying on the people of the Russian Federation can do it, but we don’t.
            Quote: max702
            But in my amateurish opinion, even if we drown them and there will be no war, we have nothing to lose

            It is very naive, but the lives of loved ones, children, territory and natural resources, in short, lose everything. The balance of power is not in our direction. You cannot replace Satan and Scalpel with fields, we will cover up Europe to the maximum. But what's the point?

            Quote: max702
            All you have to do is to do it as efficiently as possible and preferably extremely spectacularly so that you get through to trembling to the weakness of the intestines and other signs of scoring ..

            And who will carry out this daring plan? The generals, officials and deputies have everything stolen in dollars and stored abroad and the children study and live there, where to shoot it?
            1. starley
              starley April 25 2014 01: 23
              0
              In 1854, in my opinion, the British rushed into the White Sea with the intention of conquering Arkhangelsk. They were filthy with gulls, and abandoned their venture.
              Fill some of the MOE-soviet gulls with pork droppings and unload them carefully.
            2. The comment was deleted.
          3. Berkut-UA
            Berkut-UA April 24 2014 22: 11
            +4
            It is just necessary not in words but in writing to declare:

            All vessels flying any flag that violate international treaties in the Black Sea
            equate the Russian Federation with the raider (pirate) courts to which they will apply
            international regulations
            until the sinking of this pirate ship.

            And if the rule is broken
            1. A radio warning is given that you are 2 days more than the due date. Do you need towing to Istanbul. The country is informed under the flag of which the ship is at sea.
            2. Then a 10 hour warning
            3. Fire to defeat.

            The sinking of any ship will result
            a) to the fact that all international agreements will be implemented properly
            b) to war

            So there is something for all politicians to think about.
            1. S_mirnov
              S_mirnov April 24 2014 22: 44
              -1
              Quote: Berkut-UA
              The sinking of any ship will result
              a) to the fact that all international agreements will be implemented properly
              b) to war

              So there is something for all politicians to think about.

              Here is an eccentric man! We now live in market relations!
              Let’s imagine the situation. a person bought a deputy mandate (no matter which Duma party), for example, Kabaev or Valuev or someone else. Bought for expensive, taking money in loans from people whose interests I should lobby. So he needs to think about how to give the debt to creditors, and you offer him to think about how to punish America or start a war, does he need it?
              Or the oligarch bought the seat of the governor, so he needs to think about how to recapture the money, steering the province, and not about politics. Politics is like that, to the public on TV, but in reality you have to get some money!
              And you are talking about the sinking of American ships! And where then to the oligarch or the deputy with Russian dough to dump? To Nigeria or what?
          4. Boa kaa
            Boa kaa April 24 2014 22: 13
            +6
            Quote: max702
            But in my amateurish opinion, even if we drown them and there will be no war ... in case of drowning, they will drown and make noise and shut up.

            The minimum that we will have is the Cold War and the winding up of our business around the world. The same answer is possible ... Further, the escalation of tension and so on.
            It’s time for the amateurs to realize that the ship is not a tank, not an airplane. It is a subject of law, possessing extraterritoriality in any foreign port and with all the attributes of the flag state on the high seas.
            THE SHIP OF AMERICANS WILL NOT FORGIVE. THIS IS EXACTLY AT 100%!
            1. nikcris
              nikcris April 24 2014 22: 28
              0
              What is our business around the world? wassat Matryoshka dolls with balalaikam
              Calm down, our business is selling surpluses that our ancestors threw under our feet. And it is necessary to dispose of it so thatP grandchildren remain. And great-grandchildren.
          5. pilot8878
            pilot8878 April 24 2014 23: 53
            +2
            As far as I remember, Donald has long since leaked to Rumunia and posted 27 reports for demobilization after flying over his old Su-24. And the minister Yusovsky deigned to complain about "demoralizing actions" on our part!
          6. And Us Rat
            And Us Rat April 28 2014 02: 40
            0
            Quote: max702
            But in my amateurish opinion, even if we do not drown them and there will be no war, we have nothing to lose, but the enemy has a very, nuclear winter is clearly not included in their plans .. Consequently, if drowned, they will make noise and shut up ...

            ... Or, most likely, they will drown something in revenge, and so that it would be more painful, a strategic submarine, for example (there are so few of them), and drown so that they would know that it was they, but they could not prove. request
        2. washi
          washi April 24 2014 21: 10
          +1
          Quote: avg
          Yes, Lavrov simply trolls mattresses. Having entered the Black Sea, the US Navy frigate USS Taylor ran aground, damaged screws and the hull, and was being repaired in Turkey. For this reason, it was delayed by more than 21 days. laughing

          This is not our problem.
          Have you violated the regime?
          To the bottom. With the full support of Turkey.
        3. Nick
          Nick April 24 2014 21: 16
          +3
          Quote: avg
          Having entered the Black Sea, the US Navy frigate USS Taylor ran aground, damaged screws and the hull, and was being repaired in Turkey. For this reason, it was delayed by more than 21 days.

          And this is the details ... Russia is not responsible for the jamb of the captain of the piece of iron ... wink
        4. Rus2012
          Rus2012 April 24 2014 21: 54
          +1
          Quote: avg
          For this reason, it was delayed by more than 21 days.

          ... some say it was an excuse to linger on the World Cup
        5. Boa kaa
          Boa kaa April 24 2014 22: 03
          +2
          Quote: avg
          Yes, Lavrov just trolls mattresses

          Lavrov reminds the Turks that they are not entirely "friendly" about the observance of the convention in relation to the Black Sea state of Russia.
          "Wherein the Turkish side did not inform us about this delay in a timely manner. For our part, our concerns have been brought to the attention of the American and Turkish sides in the form of notes verbales. "
          1. starley
            starley April 25 2014 01: 26
            +1
            it's time for the Chelyabinsk citizens to prepare a shield - to nail it to the gates of Constantinople, and bring it to its original position in Sevastopol
          2. The comment was deleted.
    3. sluganska
      sluganska April 24 2014 20: 30
      +5
      Quote: Riperbahn
      "Novorossiysk" - which side?

      I'm not special, but it seems like Italian combat swimmers blew it up
      1. Riperbahn
        Riperbahn April 24 2014 20: 48
        +1
        This is still just speculation. There are no facts.
  2. vorobey
    vorobey April 24 2014 19: 34
    +13
    Can Su 24 again send?
    1. Predator
      Predator April 24 2014 19: 45
      +6
      And add a couple of TU, ​​show the periscope! wassat
      1. vorobey
        vorobey April 24 2014 19: 49
        +5
        And figure it out if you also throw diapers on the deck. I wonder how the guys will fight in large or liquid.
        1. tronin.maxim
          tronin.maxim April 24 2014 20: 00
          +4
          Quote: vorobey
          And figure it out if you also throw diapers on the deck. I wonder how the guys will fight in large or liquid.

          It probably depends on the litrozh diaper! Looks like 1 liter at least! laughing
        2. asar
          asar April 24 2014 20: 27
          +2
          Before dumping diapers, throw off a couple of bags of shit! Let your pelvis be washed in Romania! laughing
  3. tronin.maxim
    tronin.maxim April 24 2014 19: 35
    +11
    Conventions are not written to American destroyers. Our rk BAL said the same thing about American ships!
    1. Alex 1977
      Alex 1977 April 24 2014 20: 31
      +7
      Quote: tronin.maxim
      Montreux Convention

      The total maximum tonnage of all ships of foreign naval units that may be in transit through the Straits shall not exceed 15 tons, with the exception of cases provided for in Article 000 and in Annex III to this Convention.
      Warships will no longer be included in this tonnage, who would crash while passing: these ships will be required to comply with special safety rules issued by Turkey during repairs.
      Warships passing through the Straits in transit will not have to, with the exception of an accident or misfortune at sea, to stay there for more than the time necessary to complete their passage.
      International law is our everything.
      It is necessary to help the Americans in the legal justification.
      I propose that international naval exercises with live firing be conducted in areas where American ships are located. Participating countries are Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan.
      So what if Belarus and Kazakhstan have no access to the sea and the Navy?
      They don’t have it now. But can they have?
      And in general, where is it written that a navy is needed to conduct naval exercises?
      Ukraine, unfortunately, cannot take part, as the great pidvodny choven "Zaporizhzhia" was given to the museum.
      They will immediately have an accident and misfortune at sea ... All the justifications.
      Wholesale.
      At the same time, the rockets will be trained.
      1. rezident
        rezident April 24 2014 21: 02
        0
        Yes, what is the problem?
      2. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa April 24 2014 22: 35
        +3
        Quote: Alexey 1977
        where does it say that a naval fleet is needed to conduct naval exercises?

        Probably in the same place where - that airplanes are needed for the Air Force exercises. It’s only tank exercises that can be done like this
  4. Good
    Good April 24 2014 19: 35
    +7
    Also, Ukraine does not want to comply with the Geneva agreement. It is necessary for our pilots tot to fly over the newly arrived ships, then USA sailors will generally run away.
  5. Al_lexx
    Al_lexx April 24 2014 19: 36
    +1
    Finish out. There will be a note from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation, to leave the Black Sea waters in 24 hours, otherwise adequate effective measures will be applied to these ships. It is possible that adequate measures are already off the coast of Florida or somewhere else there.
    1. clidon
      clidon April 24 2014 20: 00
      +8
      There will be no such note. We are not suicides either. So far, there is nothing wrong with these ships.
      1. asar
        asar April 24 2014 20: 29
        +2
        Indeed, let them go! It’s ridiculous to scare Russia with such a tonnage! laughing
    2. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa April 24 2014 22: 53
      +3
      Quote: Al_lexx
      otherwise, adequate effective measures will be applied to these ships.

      This is very interesting ... Can you give more details?
      Quote: asar
      It’s ridiculous to scare Russia with such a tonnage!

      They scare not with tonnage, but with weapons. For example: in the Potomac, a small motor boat with a thermonuclear charge on board is worse and more dangerous than Kuzya at the territorial waters of the USers.
      1. Al_lexx
        Al_lexx April 26 2014 21: 27
        0
        Quote: BoA KAA
        Quote: Al_lexx
        otherwise, adequate effective measures will be applied to these ships.

        This is very interesting ... Can you give more details?

        And what is more detailed? I’m not working at the General Staff, I am just building logical chains. And today's chain (IMHO) is that the more there will be the last and most recent / last but one warnings, the less our responsibility to the international community for the development of the current situation.
  6. andrei332809
    andrei332809 April 24 2014 19: 36
    +2
    Well, okay, the Yankes' dry scared a little. and what will happen if one box gurgles from some "German mine of the second world"? probably the rest will wash off quickly, quickly ...
    1. Al_lexx
      Al_lexx April 24 2014 19: 55
      +2
      Quote: andrei332809
      Well, okay, the Yankes' dry scared a little. and what will happen if one box gurgles from some "German mine of the second world"? probably the rest will wash off quickly, quickly ...

      Wash off before. They are rushed as soon as the Russian Foreign Ministry declares a harsh protest note and outlines measures to restore contractual order. In diplomatic language, this will be a warning of a declaration of war. The Americans (for now) will not go to an open / overt military confrontation.
      1. clidon
        clidon April 24 2014 20: 00
        +4
        The Americans (for now) will not go to an open / overt military confrontation.

        And we won’t go either. We also have everything at home.
      2. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa April 24 2014 23: 00
        +2
        Quote: Al_lexx
        In diplomatic language, this will be a warning of a declaration of war.

        Are we looking for a cause for war, or what? If not, then this ... And the reason for the third world is too insignificant: a delay in staying in the World Cup. Without obvious hostile actions. And the intentions ... they did not even declare them.
        1. Al_lexx
          Al_lexx April 25 2014 04: 46
          0
          Yes of course. But in the long run it’s shining ...
  7. delfinN
    delfinN April 24 2014 19: 37
    +6
    Swim, swim, green ... out. And you write off the floor of the team ashore.
    1. asar
      asar April 24 2014 20: 31
      0
      Sailing, sorry, shit! seaman - go! (I apologize for the clarification)!
      1. family tree
        family tree April 24 2014 23: 35
        +3
        Quote: asar
        Sailing, sorry, shit! seaman - go! (I apologize for the clarification)!

        And there it says, "green ..vno", not marimans
  8. desant_doktor
    desant_doktor April 24 2014 19: 37
    +2
    By the way, comrades, maybe someone knows. And what measures are allowed to apply to ships that maliciously violate this same convention? Military measures on this list?
    1. vorobey
      vorobey April 24 2014 19: 44
      +4
      Quote: desant_doktor
      Military measures on this list?


      In the Black Sea, the echo of war still floats so much .... there are different cases ...

      Declare the area as a zone of combat shooting, and there who didn’t hide, it’s not my fault. Or to plan the launch of a ballistic missile not in Kamchatka, but in the Black Sea, is of course too much ...
      1. mamont5
        mamont5 April 24 2014 20: 13
        +4
        Quote: vorobey
        In the Black Sea, the echo of war still floats so much .... there are different cases ...


        In the Black Sea, deeper than 150-200 m is continuous hydrogen sulfide. They even say there are emissions to the surface, well, or they can be organized in the right place with subsequent ignition and explosion.
      2. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa April 24 2014 23: 15
        +1
        Quote: vorobey
        Declare the area as a zone of combat shooting and there who didn’t hide, it’s not my fault

        Well, my friend, you are a dreamer! This is notified in advance. If the memory fails, then for 30 days through dip channels, indicating the objectives of the exercises (standard - BG test).
        Secondly, why on earth would you climb under the Turkish coast ("we don't need the Turkish coast ..."), do you have BP polygons there? Or do you want to provoke a neighbor with whom you do not want to live in the world, and at the same time throw a glove in NATO's face?
        As for the ICBMs ... Well, you yourself evaluated your proposal.
    2. from punk
      from punk April 24 2014 19: 44
      +2
      Quote: desant_doktor
      By the way, comrades, maybe someone knows. And what measures are allowed to apply to ships that maliciously violate this same convention? Military measures on this list?

      can be destroyed within 14 days without a declaration of war
      1. val900
        val900 April 24 2014 20: 03
        +2
        or at the end of the stay, declare that we are going to destroy them (ships). themselves pulled off.
      2. rezident
        rezident April 24 2014 21: 05
        +4
        Fortunately, people in the Kremlin are smarter than on this site. At best, the Black Sea Fleet will forever remain marinated in the Black Sea, at worst, the 3rd World War will begin.
        1. Turkir
          Turkir April 24 2014 21: 34
          +1
          Yeah.
          The guys just want to lose all the options in connection with finding the ships.
  9. Same lech
    Same lech April 24 2014 19: 38
    +12
    Violation of the US MONTRE convention also frees up hands and RUSSIA .... our flyers can now freely work on attack targets attack aircraft and bombers ..... young need to practice the realities on the ships of the US Navy.
    At the same time, it is possible to deduce something about the real and not fictitious capabilities of the US and NATO destroyers.
    1. vorobey
      vorobey April 24 2014 19: 57
      +6
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      At the same time, there is something that can be deduced about the real and not fictional capabilities of the US and NATO destroyers


      Dnald Cook already told everything. 27 people at a time. Colored carriages will go to the Black Sea soon. for citizenship so to speak.
  10. serega.fedotov
    serega.fedotov April 24 2014 19: 40
    +13
    Promise the Turks if they let the US vessels pass, keep our tourists out of Turkey! Hotel owners themselves will start drowning in the straits!
    1. marat63
      marat63 April 24 2014 21: 15
      +7
      yes, it is high time to "recommend" the citizens of Russia not to rest in Turkey
      1. Turkir
        Turkir April 24 2014 21: 40
        +3
        Ban is the best "recommendation". Our "tourists" do not understand that Turkey is an enemy.
        Especially in connection with the entry of troops into Syria. According to the latest data.
        These "lovers of Turkey", they tell me on a blue eye, it's cheaper there!
        They would read Pushkin, about the bastard.
        1. koshh
          koshh April 24 2014 23: 29
          +2
          Quote: Turkir
          Our "tourists" do not understand that Turkey is an enemy.
          Especially in connection with the entry of troops into Syria.

          With our tourists, the Turks themselves began to "napruga": the validity of the passport. True, they forgot that 100 years ago they carried out genocide against the Armenian and Greek peoples. And they are still exterminating the Kurdish people. What about the war in Syria? Rebel camps in Turkey. Many nations are unhappy with Turkey. And if this smoldering fire was stirred up and fuel was added? The Turks will not seem a little. They will quickly share the right to control the straits with Russia. And let the Americans come in. From each ship, the loss of 10% of personnel without any hostilities also suits us.
  11. Dezinto
    Dezinto April 24 2014 19: 41
    +9
    It is necessary to continue the overflights of ships with our dryers only already in full gear, with rockets on the pylons, so that the Amer sailors all wrote down reports on dismissal ... laughing
    1. nikcris
      nikcris April 24 2014 20: 01
      +5
      They wrote not because the missiles were on pylons, but because they were not there. Like not on the radars DRY.
      PS In my previous apartment, the neighbor from above was insanely clean. Every God's day at 11.00 included a vacuum cleaner for an hour and a half. At this time, I was fine only gas burned. TV Radio turned off wassat
  12. Espado
    Espado April 24 2014 19: 41
    +11
    Conventions are different ...
  13. mig31
    mig31 April 24 2014 19: 44
    +3
    Looks like a little imperialist iron at the bottom of the Black Sea ... add.
    1. kress42rus
      kress42rus April 24 2014 20: 02
      +2
      It is high time!!!
    2. The comment was deleted.
  14. Ilotan
    Ilotan April 24 2014 19: 45
    +6
    The US law is not written, if it is written, it is not read, if it is read, it is not understood, if it is understood, then it is not so.
    1. Penzyac
      Penzyac April 24 2014 20: 31
      +1
      Quote: Ilotan
      The US law is not written, if it is written, it is not read, if it is read, it is not understood, if it is understood, then it is not so.


      It is time to act on the principle: they don’t know, we will teach, they don’t want to, we will force them.
      1. KarimovNafis
        KarimovNafis April 24 2014 20: 42
        0
        how old is the "gunboat policy"
  15. Per se.
    Per se. April 24 2014 19: 46
    +7
    Recall that since Russia's access to the Black Sea and the expansion of its Black Sea territories, ensuring their security has always rested against the Turkish policy on military navigation through the Dardanelles - the Sea of ​​Marmara - the Bosphorus.
    The puppet authorities of Ukraine, as they could have fetched our fleet in the Crimea, now the problem is actually solved. The puppet authorities of Turkey seem to have gathered to bait Russia with the straits, as in the old days, apparently, we should not forget about Constantinople. Behind the beast with the scimitars that frolic in the Balkans, there was a debt, and it would be better if they repented for this and did not protrude anymore.
  16. SHURAVI
    SHURAVI April 24 2014 19: 47
    +3
    The Americans missed the bulk that the Russian Black Sea sailors fed their fill 20 years ago !!!. Bulk videohttp: //www.youtube.com/watch? V = a7YBSJ4XS3s
  17. Vitaly Anisimov
    Vitaly Anisimov April 24 2014 19: 47
    +7
    Putin, B. the Russian people in the majority support you .. Let's light it on! In the province, pitchforks have long been sharpened (if anything). The soul aches and requires indemnities for the 90s. Especially for Yugoslavia ..! And then it all starts with Alaska ...
  18. Comintern
    Comintern April 24 2014 19: 47
    +3
    They only manduly understand them laws, conventions, agreements, etc. Not written
  19. Afinogen
    Afinogen April 24 2014 19: 48
    +3
    Yes, these ships are not worth our attention, they do not carry any threat. Even our plane this time was not sent for "reconnaissance" so as not to injure the psyche of American sailors. laughing
  20. nikcris
    nikcris April 24 2014 19: 49
    +2
    Well, the convention, the convention, Panikovsky violated it in an ugly manner, but the blow to the Straits of ONE Tu-95 or 160 completely violates the irrigation of the area. I hope this does not come to this.
    1. andrewvlg
      andrewvlg April 24 2014 20: 14
      +4
      Quote: nikcris
      but a blow to the Straits ONE Tu-95 or 160 will completely violate the irrigation of the area.

      I think you mean navigationsince
      Irrigation is the supply of water to fields lacking moisture, and an increase in its reserves in the root layer of the soil in order to increase soil fertility. (c) Wikipedia
      When it comes to navigation, please explain:
      1) How does Tu’s strike prevent the movement of warships through the Bosphorus and the Dardanelles?
      2) If the Black Sea is really "blocked", what advantage does this give Russia?
      Yours faithfully, hi
      1. nikcris
        nikcris April 24 2014 22: 07
        0
        I meant precisely irrigation. With a well-known shred of humorous humor. Stocks of salt water of the Straits will wash away everything that is not tied.
        Now for your points.
        1 The blow will not only prevent, it will completely destroy everything that is there.
        2 will lick down knees in their homeland - USA. True, Harlem gangs will already rule there. We will carry wheat to Egypt for gold. (We take it for bucks)
  21. Rohon
    Rohon April 24 2014 19: 52
    +2
    Apparently, the 1988 lesson was forgotten .... it’s time to remind, but it’s already more intelligible so that they themselves remember for a long time and are passed on to their children ............
    soldier
  22. nikcris
    nikcris April 24 2014 19: 52
    +4
    Quote: Comintern
    They only manduly understand them laws, conventions, agreements, etc. Not written

    They are not written to them because they are not used to receiving wort.
  23. Barakuda
    Barakuda April 24 2014 19: 56
    +5
    The Turks are stupid again! How many times do you have to teach them? the states are far away, but we are close. It is already necessary to frolic over the Turkish fleet in moderation - the pilots are happy. To begin with, opposite the strait, the cruiser "Moskva" will be placed in neutral waters. smile And a couple of Tu-22 flies there slightly.
    It is necessary to strengthen "Black Sea".
    1. clidon
      clidon April 24 2014 20: 02
      +2
      Precisely because we are near the Turks and let the Americans into the sea. Want to spoil relations with Turkey? I think the white house will only be happy.
    2. rezident
      rezident April 24 2014 21: 08
      0
      Put who's stopping. Neutral waters.
    3. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa April 25 2014 00: 02
      +4
      Quote: Barracuda
      To begin with, opposite the strait, the cruiser "Moskva" will be placed in neutral waters.

      And you, right, a strategist!
      Quote: rezident
      Put who's stopping. Neutral waters.

      Sober calculation interferes. Without an aviation umbrella, after 25-30 minutes of anti-aircraft combat and repelling submarine attacks, our cruiser will be left with a spreading oily spot on the water and an eternal memory of the heroic crew, who took their last battle as "Varyag".
      And the most nasty thing is the truth. Simulation of the battle of a single ship against enemy aircraft showed the loss of combat capability of the NK in 20- 25 minutes ...
  24. ia-ai00
    ia-ai00 April 24 2014 19: 57
    +2
    And when was the "written law" for the USA and NATA? To them Russia is like a BONE in a THROAT, and they so want that they would SHOULD this BONE when they try to SWALLOW!
    All these "peacekeepers" are trying to drag Russia into large-scale military actions, this can be seen not with an armed eye, while still managing to blame it.
    1. sir.jonn
      sir.jonn April 24 2014 20: 47
      +3
      Quote: ia-ai00
      Im Russia, like a bone in the throat

      Judging by all the inform data, it’s really a bone, but they are not stupid, these Americans.
      I don’t want to sound like a fan of conspiracy theory, but after all, the exhaust from a "fire in Europe" against the background of a general confrontation in Russia will be positive only for the Yankees and their defense industry.
    2. Penzyac
      Penzyac April 24 2014 20: 56
      0
      Quote: ia-ai00
      And when was the "written law" for the USA and NATA? To them Russia is like a BONE in a THROAT, and they so want that they would SHOULD this BONE when they try to SWALLOW!
      All these "peacekeepers" are trying to drag Russia into large-scale military actions, this can be seen not with an armed eye, while still managing to blame it.


      They (the USA and NATO) have already choked, the "bone" is already stuck, there is an abscess ahead and either a surgery or a fatal outcome. Although, the "bone" has not yet sunk in and is not completely stuck, it is urgently necessary to give the patient a good slap on the "back", followed by his long refusal from solid "food".
  25. Wiruz
    Wiruz April 24 2014 19: 58
    +1
    Something I do not understand. They told me at one time that aircraft-carrying ships and ships from YaSU even of countries with access to the Black Sea cannot pass through the Bosphorus. Lied to me?
    1. Barakuda
      Barakuda April 24 2014 20: 05
      +2
      Rather, they did not give the correct info. They can - Admiral Kuznetsov from Nikolaev (it was built there) calmly passed, before him was Tbilisi, Kiev. The Varangian Chinas were quietly fused ... Everything is possible there, but quite difficult to navigate. Try the 300 meters long turnaround time ..
      1. rezident
        rezident April 24 2014 21: 09
        0
        Tankers are no less clumsy but snooping around for a sweet deal.
        1. Turkir
          Turkir April 24 2014 21: 44
          0
          Konetsky wrote how in the days of the USSR our ship in the Bosphorus crashed into a house on the shore!
  26. sovetskyturist
    sovetskyturist April 24 2014 19: 58
    +7
    On February 12, 1988, events took place in the Black Sea Fleet that received a "resounding" resonance in the political, military and naval circles of various countries. On this day, a serious incident took place with the participation of the battleships of the 6th US Fleet, the cruiser URO Yorktown and the destroyer URO Karon, who came to the Black Sea and violated the state border of the USSR. The leaders and main "actors" of the operation to oust the Americans from our territorial waters were: Admiral Valentin Egorovich SELIVANOV (formerly the commander of the 5th Mediterranean Squadron of the Navy, at that time Vice Admiral, Chief of Staff of the Black Sea Fleet, later the Chief of the Main Staff of the Navy), Vice Admiral Nikolai Petrovich MIKHEEV (at that time captain 2nd rank, chief of staff of the 70th brigade of the 30th anti-submarine ships division of the Black Sea Fleet), Rear Admiral Vladimir Ivanovich BOGDASHIN (at that time captain 2nd rank, commander of the "Bezzavetny" TFR), captain 2nd rank PETROV Anatoly Ivanovich (at that time captain 3rd rank, commander of "SKR-6"). good good THERE ARE SO FAVORITE TO MEET hi
    1. kocclissi
      kocclissi April 24 2014 20: 54
      +4
      This one seems to be more complete!
    2. fedul
      fedul April 24 2014 23: 11
      +1
      Glory to the Russian fleet!
  27. Alexstalker
    Alexstalker April 24 2014 20: 02
    +1
    And remember the small airplane on April 12, the Su-24. Which 12 times attacked a certain American vessel in the Black Sea
    1. nikcris
      nikcris April 24 2014 20: 07
      -8
      Nice little dedicated plane. It is a pity that nature does not exist. request
      1. Alexstalker
        Alexstalker April 24 2014 20: 17
        0
        http://yandex.ru/video/search?text=%D1%81%D0%B0%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%BB%D1%91%D1%82%20
        %D1%81%D1%83-24%20%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%B4%20%D1%8D%D1%81%D0%BC%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%86%D0%B
        5%D0%BC%20%D0%B2%20%D1%87%D1%91%D1%80%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%BC%20%D0%BC%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%
        B5%20%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE%20%D1%8F%D0%BD%D0%B4%D0%B5%D1%85&where=all&f
        ilmId = ybn5knBvUXI
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Barakuda
        Barakuda April 24 2014 20: 22
        0
        There is, and how. even in the Ukrainian Air Force is. And he’s not quite small either. If you fall from the wing to the concrete, a lot of broken bones are provided. You can try from the 2nd floor on the asphalt.
      4. nikcris
        nikcris April 24 2014 23: 41
        0
        Alex mixed up the brands and called Su MiG. Since the MiG-24 is not in the nomenclature, please call. Yes and Su-24 are absent. Present with additional letters and other TTX ...
  28. ya.seliwerstov2013
    ya.seliwerstov2013 April 24 2014 20: 03
    +3
    NATO could not stand one more such rich country,

    And NATO began to bother, scare the war and the dollar,



    But Putin only laughed, because he was not afraid of anyone,

    He mounted his horse and galloped; he called for the help of the soldiers.

    And the people stood up for the sovereign (in Russia there is such a position):

    “For peace, for friendship, for love, shed your and your blood!”



    And then America collapsed, she said that she had deceived everyone,

    Russia loves it too - it just needs oil again.

    Alaska seemed a little, and America was conceited,

    There is no way back now, oh, done, fool, misfortune.
  29. Roman1970
    Roman1970 April 24 2014 20: 06
    0
    The Americans are becoming impudent ... I am not surprised at this already ... It does not add authority to them, they jump ...
  30. roskaz
    roskaz April 24 2014 20: 09
    0
    dogs forgot how they were pushed out of the black sea in the late 80s !!!
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  34. crambol
    crambol April 24 2014 20: 14
    0
    Question to experts and specialists. Does the doctrine provide sanctions for violators of the convention, or is it an empty phrase?
    1. Afinogen
      Afinogen April 24 2014 20: 39
      +5
      Quote: crambol
      The doctrine provides for sanctions


      I don’t know about sanctions, but we can punish if we can lead badly.

      1. crambol
        crambol April 24 2014 21: 04
        +3
        Thanks for the consultation, doctor. Feel better!
  35. Alexstalker
    Alexstalker April 24 2014 20: 16
    +1
    [media=http://yandex.ru/video/search?text=самолёт%20су-24%20над%20эсминцем%20в%2
    0чёрном%20море%20видео%20яндех&where=all&filmId=ybn5knBvUXI]
    Drying recently circled some
  36. The comment was deleted.
  37. Committee
    Committee April 24 2014 20: 16
    +2
    Mina ... a mine of the times of the Second World War ... Not all, oh not all have been wiped out since the last war.
  38. 11111mail.ru
    11111mail.ru April 24 2014 20: 18
    +2
    When the aisles are clogged, you have to punch them.
  39. The comment was deleted.
  40. Stinger
    Stinger April 24 2014 20: 19
    +2
    Tu-22MS in Crimea will have a sobering effect on the body, exhausted by the elaboration of sanctions against Russia.
    1. nikcris
      nikcris April 24 2014 20: 25
      +2
      There are no such. You mixed Tu-95MS with Tu-22m3. These are different categories. The latter was sharpened on the AUG, in the Crimea and its environs there are none.
  41. JoylyRoger
    JoylyRoger April 24 2014 20: 19
    +1
    By SU-24 link for each, for training wink
  42. nikcris
    nikcris April 24 2014 20: 21
    +2
    destroyer donald duck laughing
    1. Barakuda
      Barakuda April 24 2014 20: 24
      +3
      Half a foot under the keel! drinks
      1. Com T-64a
        Com T-64a April 24 2014 20: 36
        +1
        I would say, “Not a foot under the keel! Or we’ll drop the marine mabutu!” soldier
        1. nikcris
          nikcris April 24 2014 20: 44
          +1
          Well, one already kinda caught minus futo request In native NATO Turkey.
  43. Tanechka-clever
    Tanechka-clever April 24 2014 20: 30
    +4
    The United States intentionally demonstrates that it is the LAW for all. And therefore, in the world - law after force, and any contractual papers are candy wrappers for the naive and gullible, which the noble ones fulfill and adhere to, while others allow themselves to violate and steal with impunity without answer. But the truth is that this is a test for some, and for others - after which, in accordance with dialectics, one society improves its quality indicators, and the other worsens. Healthy spirit of the nation in a healthy society. And that's why, in accordance with the law passed, today maydanuts falsely praise the "Heavenly Hundred", because today they are killing civilians in the southeast and they are their enemies
  44. A1L9E4K9S
    A1L9E4K9S April 24 2014 20: 32
    +1
    For the United States, no international laws have been written, they are the law themselves and in order to wean the insolent dumbhead Yankees from poking their nose where the dog doesn’t stick, often beat fast and hard on the insolent American face. Remember, after Pearl Harbor they aren’t normal piz ... th did not receive.
    1. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa April 25 2014 00: 48
      +2
      Quote: A1L9E4K9S
      after Pearl Harbor they didn’t receive any normal piz ... where.

      As I understand it, Vietnam doesn’t count !?
      Losses in l / s: -58220 people killed; - 303 000 injured, of which 153tys - seriously. Missing --2600 people, 800 people were captured. After the war, 20 thousand Vietnam veterans committed suicide.
      States from 1964 to 1973 year lost 3374 aircraft, of which --30ed B-52!
  45. voliador
    voliador April 24 2014 20: 44
    +2
    RCC with RC "Moscow" covers most of the Black Sea. So we have our own convention.
  46. ODERVIT
    ODERVIT April 24 2014 20: 46
    +3
    It makes no sense to send the Su-24m link for re-training. Enough, as before, one to suppress shipborne air defense systems. But the link, no more, with practical ABs, such as P-50/75, at each point of the suspension. They will clean as last time. With only one difference, in the future I will not write reports, but at least half the sixth fleet of the North American Navy. The forum rule does not give the opportunity to write everything that I think about these not good people and about their homeland ..
  47. Giant thought
    Giant thought April 24 2014 20: 49
    +2
    We have no fear, but they have it. They are walking along the Black Sea and wondering what we have prepared for them this time in the form of a surprise, and the expectation of trouble affects the psyche more than the trouble itself.
  48. Gvozdovsky
    Gvozdovsky April 24 2014 20: 53
    +3
    Yes, let them come, everything is fine! But these "apparatuses", which arrived directly in our area of ​​responsibility, should become objects for the daily exercises of various naval units. Let the morning be met by the hum of the turbines of the next bomber-bomber, by lunchtime they will find themselves in the sight of the periscope, but for the night, for the bad kids, you can think of something else instead of an evening fairy tale! To make it clear to the Stars and Stripes, they are not welcome here! laughing
  49. nvn_co
    nvn_co April 24 2014 20: 56
    0
    Run into Black Peter the Great and Kuzyu. And from the continent, regularly fly over them on the Su-24-Tih, 34th, 27th. That these crews would write reports on dismissal from the proud NATO forces.
  50. Viktor.N.Aleksandrov.
    Viktor.N.Aleksandrov. April 24 2014 20: 56
    +1
    It’s time for us to respond to mattresses. It is possible, as some comrades suggest, to conduct fleet maneuvers with missile firing, or during the maneuvers, it is possible to conduct training mining of the area of ​​the straits with subsequent clearance. I hope we have the appropriate mines for psychological impact, with some pyro ammunition for a visual demonstration in case of improper clearance?