Russia has created a quad-core high-performance processor "Elbrus-4С"

The new domestic development from CJSC MCST - the Elbrus-4С quad-core microprocessor - is ready for the start of the mass production. At the same time, this processor is able to provide a level of performance that is comparable with modern microprocessors manufactured by leading foreign companies. Today it is the most high-performance processor that was created and will be manufactured in Russia.

It should be noted that CJSC MCST is the assignee of Moscow Center of SPARC Technologies LLP. The company began operations in April 1992. It was created on the basis of the department of the Institute of Fine Mechanics and Computer Engineering (ITM and VT) named after S. A. Lebedev - one of the undisputed leaders of the domestic electronic engineering. MCST is a Russian company with a 20-year history. At the same time, it has always attracted the attention of both Russian and foreign IT specialists with its developments.

The systems that were created by ITM and VT specialists were at one time the basis of domestic computing systems and resources. They found application in the most knowledgeable sectors of our society, which, of course, include nuclear energy, space exploration, basic and applied scientific research. Domestic supercomputers BESM, Elbrus-1KB, Elbrus-1 and Elbrus-2 are among the most well-known developments of the institute. There is no doubt that the Elbrus-4С microprocessors and the systems created on its basis will occupy a worthy place in this company.

Today, the Elbrus-4С microprocessor is the most high-performance solution in the company's product portfolio. Elbrus-4С is a universal 64-bit microprocessor suitable for solving various computational problems. The processor contains 4 cores, which operate at 800 MHz, and supports the DDR3-3 memory channel 1600. Experts MCTS implemented the possibility of combining 4 chips in a multiprocessor system with shared memory. The quad-core Elbrus-4С is manufactured using the 65 technology of nanometers (nm), the average power consumption of the processor is only 45 W.

It is worth noting that, in terms of the manufacturing process, the Russian company is approximately 9 years behind Xenum-Xnumx. The most advanced Intel i8 and Intel i10 processors, built on the Ivy Bridge architecture, are manufactured using the 3 nm process technology. Technological process using 5-nanometer technology began to be used by the world's leading manufacturers of microprocessors in the 22 year, and such processors went into mass production in the 65 year.

The Elbrus-4С processor is a logical continuation of the line of microprocessors built on the basis of the Russian architecture Elbrus, which was created in the MCST. In one cycle, each core of a new microprocessor is able to perform 23 operations, whereas for microprocessors like RISC, this indicator is several times less. The Russian processor has advanced support for floating point operations. The total computational power of all 4-x processor cores is of the order of 50 gigaflops with single precision and about 25 gigaflops with double precision. The Elbrus-4С processors, despite the relatively small working clock frequency, are able to provide performance in many real-life tasks that is comparable with the leading foreign processors of foreign production, the same Intel i3 and i5, reports RIA News.

The working name of the Elbrus-4С processor was Elbrus-2S

Compared to the previous generation Elbrus-2C + processor, the Elbrus-4С architecture has been seriously modified to improve its performance: support has been introduced for Intel / AMD binary 64-bit translation (at the hardware level), the cache size has been increased memory, added support for binary translation in multithreaded mode. In addition, the memory subsystem has undergone a complete rework: a new standard for DDR3-1600 memory has been mastered, the number of memory channels has increased, the efficiency of the chip in multiprocessor systems has been improved. Also on the basis of the quad processor Elbrus-4С была a server was created that supports the 4 microprocessor and the 2 south bridge of the KPI, which are also developed by the MCST company.

A distinctive feature of all computing platforms that are currently being created at the MCST is a power of attorney: all key components, hardware and software, were created by the MCST specialists and possess a complete set of design documentation. Elbrus-4С processors can be the basis for creating a wide range of trusted Russian computing equipment: personal computers, servers, as well as embedded solutions. Employees of OJSC INEUM named after A. Gorky took direct part in the work on creating a new Russian processor and server based on it, as well as the necessary software. I.S. Brook ”, which is a key partner of CJSC MCST.

The new MCST processor is a logical development of the previous Elbrus-2С + processors, which were created in 2011 year. Like its predecessor, the new Russian processor is primarily intended for use in the military sphere, where the electronic component base of foreign production cannot be used due to possible malicious “bookmarks.” In addition, the new microprocessor meets the increased requirements of the duration of the life cycle in the area of ​​the working temperature range. Processors are well suited for scientific calculations and other work that requires a high level of protection against possible unauthorized access. However, the company does not exclude the possibility that computers equipped with an Elbrus-4С processor will be able to interest ordinary computer users.

Especially for the new MCST processor, the specialists created their own operating system called Elbrus, which is based on the Linux kernel version 2.6.33. The composition of this operating system includes more than 3 thousands of software packages from the distribution of Debian 5.0, as well as a package manager. There is a full set of developer tools that includes optimizing compilers for high-level C, C ++ programming languages, as well as Fortran-77 and Fortran-90. There is a profiler, debugger, a library of signal processing and mathematical functions. At the same time, the Elbrus operating system has passed the certification procedure for the second class of protection against unauthorized access, as well as the second level of control over undeclared capabilities. It is also worth noting that on computers built on the basis of the Elbrus-4С processor, it will be possible to use modern versions of the Windows operating system as well as programs running under this operating system. This is achieved through the implementation of hardware support for binary translation of 64-bit codes from Intel and AMD.

For the first time, Elbrus-4С processors were shown to the public in March of the current year at the specialized exhibition “New Electronics - 2014”. About when it is planned to begin production of new microprocessors, has not yet been reported. Earlier in March, 2014, Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin, said that the improvement of the Russian electronic component base is one of the most important areas for the successful implementation of the state defense order, since possible sanctions from Western countries may hinder the rearmament of the Russian army. The modern quad-core Elbrus-4С processor is planned to be used on server hardware, as well as where it is necessary to ensure the replacement of foreign technologies in order to ensure the autonomy of work and the required level of secrecy.

At present, development work on the creation of new processors is continuing at CJSC MCST. In particular, in the framework of the program "Development of a heterogeneous microprocessor with a peak performance of more than 150 gigaflops", which will be built on the basis of high-performance 64-bit cores. The aim of this project is to create a Russian multi-core processor Elbrus-8С server class with the architecture Elbrus and intended for solving computing-intensive tasks and for building multiprocessor and multi-machine systems belonging to the teraflop performance class.

Information sources:
http://www.mcst.ru/istorija_predprijatija
http://ria.ru/technology/20140420/1004724150.html
http://www.ixbt.com/news/hard/index.shtml?17/86/94
http://www.thg.ru/technews/20140422_110023.html
http://lenta.ru/news/2014/04/21/65nm

Comments

[saag]

"Modern quad-core processor Elbrus-4C is planned to be used on server equipment"
unless on the gateway :-)

[Ptah]

Quote: saag

it is planned to be used on server hardware "

It is easier and cheaper to put "Malaysian" or "Costa Rican".
But for the defense industry and industries where secrecy is needed - then yes!
You can find a lot of areas where performance is not important, but reliability.
Low heat - saving on cooling radiators and add. fans. Hence the reduction in weight and the absence of concomitant stray.

Shl. And what about the estimated prices for this "stone"?
How does it relate to Asiaprom ....

[fzr1000]

It is a big misconception that ZAO “MCST” is the only one to produce processors in Russia, this is not at all the case. Offhand, some manufacturers who manufacture processors:

SPC “ELVIS” - production of chips and processors, microelectronics. They are used in Russian PCs, access control systems and other small household appliances. They work in conjunction with ANGSTREM-T OJSC to manufacture chips and microcircuits according to 0.13-micron design standards. Lines are being prepared according to 0.09-micron design standards, under the guidance of Sitronics.
The most famous processor from the manufacturer NVCom-01 (Navikom) is a programmable three-processor “system on a chip” with a built-in 48-channel GLONASS / GPS navigation function. The microcircuit is designed using 0,13 micron technology on the basis of the MULTIKOR IP nuclear platform, the crystal size is 8.8 * 9.5 mm * mm, ~ 60 million transistors. The NVCom-01 microprocessor allows replacing foreign-made high-performance DSP processors, including ADSP TS201 (ADI) chips, a number of OMAP (TI) series chips, and SiRF Atlas-III (SiRF) navigation chips. It is oriented for mass production at the perspective domestic microelectronic production of ANGSTREM-T OJSC according to 0.13-micron design standards. It is a programmable three-processor “system on a chip” with a built-in 48-channel GLONASS / GPS navigation function. The microcircuit is designed using 0,13 micron technology on the basis of the MULTICOR IP nuclear platform, the crystal size is 8.8 * 9.5 mm * mm, ~ 60 million transistors. The NVCom-01 microprocessor allows replacing foreign-made high-performance DSP processors, including ADSP TS201 (ADI) chips, a number of OMAP (TI) series chips, and SiRF Atlas-III (SiRF) navigation chips. It is oriented for mass production at the perspective domestic microelectronic production of ANGSTREM-T OJSC according to 0.13-micron design standards.
To say more specifically, processors and modular devices based on these processors are recognized in Russia as one of the best. In St. Petersburg, the Multibort kit received high marks from international experts from ESA, NASA, University of Dundee, Astrium. It was with the use of kit chips at ISC-2010 that the first domestic SpaceWire branched network, provided by the place of the MiT Development Network Administrator, was demonstrated for the first time.
Together with specialists from world space agencies (ESA, NASA, JAXA), the SPC ELVIS and SUAI actively participate in the work of the International Working Group (ESA, Holland) to improve and further develop the SpaceWire standard, including the development of a gigabit version of a new promising standard with galvanic isolation, previously named "SpaceFiber".

Corund-M Design Bureau specializing in the assembly of various electronic modules of computers, processors and chips, including military applications and harsh operating conditions, design and manufacture of complex, highly reliable electronic devices and computer components.

[cdrt]

Quote: fzr1000

Lines are being prepared according to 0.09-micron design standards, under the guidance of Sitronics.

Hmm ... 90nm it was in the world 15 years ago, maybe 20.
And ... well knowing Sitronics from the inside - all that it touches turns into money exclusively for interested people. Moreover, this has a very indirect relation to order fulfillment ... Which, accordingly, is very, very sorry.
More precisely - we can say so. at 90nm they will pass, but at a price it will be more expensive than two generations with a newer technology and with a delay of a couple of years.
Which again is very, very sorry

[fzr1000]

STC "Module" is an enterprise founded in 1990 by the enterprises of the military-industrial complex - Vympel NPO and the Scientific Research Institute of Radio Instrument Engineering. He is engaged in applied research in the field of pattern recognition and the development of hardware for digital processing of signals and images and the construction of functionally complete computer complexes based on them. The developer of the well-known series of microprocessors NeuroMatrix. Embedded computers developed by STC “Module” are used in industrial systems, avionics and space applications. Particularly protected PCs are distributed among departments. In particular, MVS186 is installed on the Zarya module of the International Space Station, as well as on the ISS service module, the Yamal telecommunications satellite.
STC "Module" has granted the German division of Fujitsu (Fujitsu Microelectronics Europe GmbH) a license for the core of the NeuroMatrix Core processor, which is focused on the use in signal processing systems and on the construction of neural networks. It can be used in various multimedia and telecommunication devices (for example, in MPEG-4 decoders).
Now about performance and megahertz. Often people do not quite correctly understand the clock frequency, for example, 150-200-300-400 or 1000 MHz on Russian processors, comparing it with foreign counterparts. The clock speed of Russian processors is low - it is compensated by the fact that it is "clearly parallel" architecture (EPIC).
At one time, the Scientific and Technical Center “Module” NM6403 NeuroMatrix processor arranged a core frequency of 40 MHz with a Pentium II processor with a core frequency of 300 MHz and tested it hard, the microprocessor created in the “Module” is a hybrid so called RISC - a processor with a massively parallel ultra-fast computer.

[iConst]

Quote: Ptah

Quote: saag

it is planned to be used on server hardware "

It is easier and cheaper to put "Malaysian" or "Costa Rican".
But for the defense industry and industries where secrecy is needed - then yes!
You can find a lot of areas where performance is not important, but reliability.
Low heat - saving on cooling radiators and add. fans. Hence the reduction in weight and the absence of concomitant stray.

Shl. And what about the estimated prices for this "stone"?
How does it relate to Asiaprom ....

People simply do not know that Elbrus has a unique architecture that is ahead of the same MTsST-pentium.
In the early 90s, the processor architecture was actually stolen and merged by the person closest to Babayan - Pentkovsky at Intel. The result is the new Pentium processor.

To this, Babayan said that they have already moved much further and have a more advanced architecture, code-named Elbrus.

But work on Elbrus was stopped for a long time - the 90s and "zero", and Intel became the leader, dumping all competitors, primarily IBM.

The sentence spoiled the phrase in the article

In one cycle, each core of the new microprocessor is able to perform 23 operations, while for RISC microprocessors this figure is several times smaller.

It is not clear what they are compared to - ARM is a "subfamily" of RISK processors (Reducated Iinstruction Set Computing - calculations with a limited (stripped down) set of instructions).
I would say bluntly - "made" Sun Microsystems. It would be nice ...
And so - in tablets and smartphones are just ARM processors (iAtom does not count).

[Nikita_Pilot]

An Asian will naturally be cheaper, but if we take an Asian, then we will have to buy in kilograms for one device, since it is not known how long it will work and there is no guarantee that the Asian model will not have a "bug" or some other realties of the left equipment. So it is better to pay once and forget how to buy a kilogram and at a price 3-4 times more expensive. And this processor would be introduced in the Air Defense Forces, Air Defense, Missile Defense and Strategic Missile Forces. We are more and more no longer dependent on foreign electronics, but everyone is exactly complaining .

[orsker]

Well, why, the servers are very different.

[Mister X]

Quote: saag

Modern quad-core processor Elbrus-4С is planned to be used on server hardware

Will create a stone Elbrus-8С - upgrade them percent 4С.
The socket is the same.

[alexandr.krupnov]

Yes, the domain controller is still far away. And most importantly, there are no crutches. And we cannot do without it

[kenig1]

You will not be so superfluous in the brain.

[ShturmKGB]

If they start producing personal computers based on Elbrus, I personally will buy it, even if it will be more expensive than Western competitors ...

[Alez]

The main thing is being done, today 64 NM, tomorrow 22 NM.

[Letun]

Quote: Alez

The main thing is being done, today 64 NM, tomorrow 22 NM.

The truth about the price of the new processor and the possible volume of release in the article is delicately silent.

[Dazdranagon]

Quote: Letun

about the price

- this is only for the army, so that Uncle Sam could not turn off all our electronics at the right time!

[Wheel]

Quote: Letun

The truth about the price of the new processor and the possible volume of release in the article is delicately silent.

So the price depends on the volume.
1pc - much more expensive than gold of the same mass
100pcs - commensurate
10 - mere pennies.
Exaggerated, of course.

[Moscow-7]

Exaggerated, of course

Soon everything can change, and Chubais will be at fault :)

here already wrote about POSSIBLE Russian breakthrough in microelectronics, which will take place if a Rosnanov startup is launched, which will produce microchips using maskless multipath electron lithography (Mapper Lithography)

Insider from Cornelius Agrippa - Production Director of MAPPER LLC with an interesting background http://habrahabr.ru/users/corneliusagrippa/

Which writes:
http://habrahabr.ru/users/CorneliusAgrippa/comments/

After a few months the first world-class MEMS factory will be launched in Russia, whichIn addition to elements for Mapper, it can theoretically produce anything using MEMS technology.

The plan is as follows: ....

And hereafter, much more interesting:

Cornelius Agrippa: In fact, the main advantage of the Mapper installation is not that it will allow you to get very small sizes, but that it will allow you to realize lithography without the need for a mask - even at fairly large sizes, of the order of 45-65 nm. Currently, a set of masks for lithography costs sky-high (a kit for a 28 nm processor will pull half a million euros), so no semiconductor plant will bother with small batches. Multipath electronic lithography allows you to produce:

1. Small batches of plates. At least one.

2. Prototypes. On one plate, you can draw a dozen options for chips, drive through the line and choose the best option, and then rivet it on the stream with conventional photolithography.

The first option opens up opportunities for small batch productionwhich is currently missing

(let's say someone wants to do all electronics for a satellite on a single chip - Yes, please, no problem.

Cost price one 300 mm CMOS plate 28 nm - about 5-6 thousand euros, just bring the mask digitally).

The second - significantly speeds up the development of new products (though, you still have to puff for resolution to bring to reasonable values ​​- at least 14 nm).

With 300 mm plates can be obtained at the Mapper installation

70650 / (380 * 28nm / 65nm) ~ 433 systems on a chip, where 380mm square. Elbrus-4C crystal area in the production of 65 nm technology. With a marriage of 10% ~ 388 workable chips at a price of 6000 euros / 388 ~ 16 euros ($ 22 or 800 rubles) for one piece of Elbrus-4C.

As I understand it, Elbrus-4C is about Intel Core i5, and Core i5 is not worth less than $ 160 in Russia. Even if in real production Elbrus-4C will cost three times more than the estimate of $ 22, it will still be cheaper than the comparable Core i5 in performance.

So we are either on the verge of a new revolution, or another failure of Mr. Chubais.

[URAL72]

How nice that the comments have so many specifics, technical specifications and specific comparisons. This is a forum of adults, not stupid juvenile balabol. Very happy to keep it up!

[Serrrrgo]

+1 I support. One of the rare examples where comments in places are more interesting to read than an article.

[Basarev]

It would be great to actually make a world revolution in computers, because the most intelligent satellites should only be in the power of the space itself. That is, with us.

[mark2]

And therefore, as the price does not bother anyone. Nobody is going to sell and buy it. This is PR! This is a report to the President for billions appropriated by officials. The fate of this miracle of technology will be the same as YotaFon. Everyone heard that he was, but no one had ever seen him, except for Medvedev and Glazyev, the adviser to the Smog Leader of the nation, the Light of our eyes, whose bright mind excites the consciousness of all of Mankind)))

[atalef]

Quote: Alez

The main thing is being done, today 64 NM, tomorrow 22 NM.

Not tomorrow, and not even the day after tomorrow, between 64 and 22 nm - this
First of all, Intel has already released 14 nm chips (in Ireland) and are preparing to release 10nm (in Israel)
It is not tomorrow or the day after tomorrow, it is 4 generations.
and not 10, but 15 years behind.

[Bonham]

the previous flagship processor from the MCST “Elbrus-2C +”, which was introduced in 2011, was produced at 90 nm standards, after 3 years, it was already mastered 65 nm, if it goes further at the same pace, everything will be fine

[atarix]

I do not understand. Is the processor used WITHOUT A RADIATOR?

[The shelezyak]

second roller, 1.33 - radiators on the boards in the rack are clearly visible

[atarix]

I do not understand. Is the processor used WITHOUT A RADIATOR?

[gandalf]

The technical process is not the main thing. The main thing is architecture, its capabilities.
But with the architecture of Elbrus - everything is in order, in contrast to the outdated, archaic x86 architecture, along which Intel is forced to "run" forward, etc. due to compatibility. And it turns out that what Elbrus does at 800 MHz can do Intel I5 at 2 GHz.
It turns out that Intel has mainly extensive development, and ours - intense.

[PiP]

Quote: gandalf

The technical process is not the main thing. The main thing is architecture, its capabilities.
But with the architecture of Elbrus - everything is in order, in contrast to the outdated, archaic x86 architecture, along which Intel is forced to "run" forward, etc. due to compatibility. And it turns out that what Elbrus does at 800 MHz can do Intel I5 at 2 GHz.
It turns out that Intel has mainly extensive development, and ours - intense.

I add that it is not a matter of density and quantity on one crystal. Do not forget that Intel and AMD are focused on consumer goods (everything that they use in everyday life with a bunch of GHz) their fault tolerance is at the limit. Everything should be in moderation. What difference does it make to me in frequencies and speed, if the sound of the fans from the computer is like the roar of a tractor, God forbid this miracle does not overheat. More detailed on Intel percent - http://all-ht.ru/inf/pc/proc_intel_hrono_all_12.html

[zarya]

Quote: PiP

if the sound of the fans from the computer is like the roar of a tractor, God forbid this miracle would not overheat.

Now there are opportunities for cooling by immersion in a liquid (as in the good old days, by the way). And about reliability, you are 100% right.

[massad1]

It would be nice over time to the masses, so to speak, the spread of a civilian line of equipment, otherwise we have in fact 90% Made in Taiwan. The processor is certainly good, at least there is an appearance that things aren’t standing still, but I would like to get a (simple mortal) PC at least half consisting of domestic components.

[zarya]

Quote: massad1

a processor is certainly good, at least there is an appearance that things aren’t standing still, but I would like to end up with a (mere mortal) PC at least half consisting of domestic components.

Yes, I would have ordered it to myself at my place of residence in the USA if the price was coming down. The architecture of this processor is really interesting.

[zarya]

Quote: gandalf

It turns out that the Intel mainly extensive development, and ours - intense

It is also necessary to add that Intel its Itanium project with similar architecture is stupidly pro ** ali.

[Concept1]

Quote: atalef

Quote: Alez

The main thing is being done, today 64 NM, tomorrow 22 NM.

Not tomorrow, and not even the day after tomorrow, between 64 and 22 nm - this
First of all, Intel has already released 14 nm chips (in Ireland) and are preparing to release 10nm (in Israel)
It is not tomorrow or the day after tomorrow, it is 4 generations.
and not 10, but 15 years behind.

5 years maximum!
To this whole topic, your lithographs are on the way!

[postman]

Quote: atalef

and not 10, but 15 years behind.

1.For military technology, heat dissipation is not as critical as for a laptop and iPhone
(there, in VT, there is an already developed heat removal system, caused by the presence of sensors)
2. Elbrus on a "different principle"
3. may be qubits, "quantum parallelism." and quantum computers will generally end the era of the x86 architecture processor

Scientists at the Lebedev Physical Institute and the Russian Quantum Center (RQC) announced the creation of a model of a quantum computer from several qubits at diamond coloring centers

As always: Soviet scientist Mathematician Yuri Manin back in 1980, for the first time proposed using a quantum system for computingHowever, the first prototype computer appeared in 2001 in Vancouver.

[Sledgehammer]

back in 1980, he first proposed using a quantum system for computing, but the first computer prototype appeared in Vancouver in 2001

And this surprises you, I am not. In the 90s, a lot of things and who were "taken out" abroad.

[cdrt]

Quote: Postman

3. may be qubits, "quantum parallelism." and quantum computers will generally end the era of the x86 architecture processor

... you know, architecture 86 is buried in my opinion of the year since 1988 :-)
30 years will be soon, as she all dies :-)

[postman]

Quote: cdrt

... you know, architecture 86 is buried in my opinion of the year since 1988 :-)

Well, yes, if you count from 80386 (i386)
buried. The technical limit is almost reached.
And accessibility: this is mass and price. Intel burns like Microsoft

Quote: cdrt

30 years will be soon, as she all dies :-)

adapts! For a long time, it’s not CISC architecture, but starting with Intel 486DX, they are CISC processors with a RISC core.
On the exchanges, there is a constant increase in the shares of companies involved in RISC architecture ARM and a drop in the shares of the largest manufacturers of CISC x86 processors. Even Intel is falling despite dominance over AMD and profit reports.

[Basarev]

I also recall Setun, the unmatched mainframe computer - the only ternary computer produced in series. True, it was a long time ago, but nonetheless ...

[zarya]

Quote: Basarev

I also recall Setun, the unmatched mainframe computer - the only ternary computer produced in series. True, it was a long time ago, but nonetheless ...

Setun is a curious machine, but IMHO (strictly IMHO!) Nothing more. There the ternary values ​​were stored in two bits (I read the descriptions of its implementation), so the only thing that may be interesting in it is not so much iron as a [maybe] set of instructions.

[zarya]

Quote: Postman

As always: the Soviet scientist Mathematician Yuri Manin back in 1980 for the first time proposed using a quantum system for computing, but the first computer prototype appeared in 2001 in Vancouver.

It was inspired by these memories of how I found and read his books in the library of the mathematics department of the University of Washington in Seattle. By the way, some of the professors personally knew him ...

[JIaIIoTb]

Atalef. We are delighted with your best practices))))
But in the field of armaments, we still surpass you despite nanometers)))
Maybe all the same, it's not about the footage?))))

[atalef]

Quote: JIaIIoTb

Atalef. We are delighted with your best practices)))) But in the field of armaments, we still surpass you despite nanometers))) Maybe it's still not a matter of footage?))))

Yes, and here it is. I know how long the Intel plant was built (in Kiryat Gat) for 22nm technology. This is taking into account that the Intel Science Center has been located in Israel for more than 40 years and the 32 nm plant already existed and in general the bulk of Intel processors (40%) is produced in Israel. those. with all these conditions, the lack of staff, the use of some local developments and favorable conditions from the government (almost 1 billion subsidies) - the plant was built for almost 2.5 years and cost more than $ 2.7 billion.
And this is just to switch from 32 nm to 22 nm.
I understand what it is about and quite a real person.
The rate of generational change in microelectronics is 4-5 years and decreases each time.
The production of chips is not only electronics at the highest level, it is chemistry (I would say mainly chemistry), development. equipment. production culture and most importantly huge investments
Russia does not have its own equipment, I'm not saying that the transition to every new level is almost the construction of a new plant.
new, not modernization of the old.
Is it already being built? Is there a project?
How can I get something when it’s not even something to release.
Can anyone explain?
so for general information

According to the company, Intel’s investment in the construction of the plant amounted to $ 3,5 billion. In 2011, Fab 28 started manufacturing processors using the 22-nm process technology, which required another $ 2,7 billion.

Currently, the area of ​​sterile rooms in the Fab 28 factory is equal to the area of ​​four football fields, and about a thousand different types of machines are involved in the production of chips. The process of processing one 300 mm plate takes about two months in a full cycle, during this time about 500 operations are performed on the plate.

[URAL72]

"The Intel Research Center has been in Israel for over 40 years and the 32 nm plant already existed and in general the bulk of Intel processors (40%) are manufactured in Israel"

Gathered a lot more than a thousand computers, I have not seen a single Israeli processor. Maybe Israel is not aware that Hohland also has money for computers, and it’s not far to drag them ...

[Wheel]

Quote: atalef

Not tomorrow, and not even the day after tomorrow, between 64 and 22 nm - this is First of all, Intel has already released 14 nm chips (in Ireland) and are preparing to release 10nm (in Israel) It's not tomorrow or the day after tomorrow, it's 4 generations .and Already not 10, but 15 years behind.

oh well don't panic, atalef.
More sanctions would be introduced, and 15 years will smoothly flow into three years ...
Well, you understand .., Israel has come across this ....

[cdrt]

Quote: Wheel

More sanctions would be introduced, and 15 years will smoothly flow into three years ...

Do not flow. Actually the main equipment is imported.
Actually - you can well teach the history of electronics in the USSR in the late 70s and 80s.

[nikolaxp]

Quote: cdrt

Do not flow. Actually the main equipment is imported.
Actually - you can well teach the history of electronics in the USSR in the late 70s and 80s.

And what is it that the equipment is imported, as if someone is taking it from us, the main thing is the people who work on it. After World War II, imported equipment was also entirely in the USSR, and this did not prevent us from becoming a great power and the first to create a satellite and launch a man into space, and in many other areas overtake the whole world. So IMHO is not the case at all.

[cdrt]

Quote: atalef

Quote: Alez

The main thing is being done, today 64 NM, tomorrow 22 NM.

Not tomorrow, and not even the day after tomorrow, between 64 and 22 nm - this
First of all, Intel has already released 14 nm chips (in Ireland) and are preparing to release 10nm (in Israel)
It is not tomorrow or the day after tomorrow, it is 4 generations.
and not 10, but 15 years behind.

And ... that characteristically put cons :-)
true eyes hurts :-)))))
In fairness, Intel, in my opinion, doesn’t release RISC processors of 10-14nm, which slightly hides the difference in performance.
Actually, productivity is not growing at super speed, which can not be said about reducing energy consumption.

[zarya]

Quote: cdrt

Actually, productivity is not growing at super speed, which can not be said about reducing energy consumption.

So for a long time productivity is increased mainly due to parallelism and not frequency.

[alexx83]

Maybe. Only processors are highly specialized, primarily for the military. A prerequisite should be radiation resistance. Question: how does it compare with technical processes less than 45 nm?

[nicollider]

even if what is written in half is true, then this is a big progress. highly. this means that we have both science and technology.

[iConst]

Quote: Alez

The main thing is being done, today 64 NM, tomorrow 22 NM.

This is where the dog is buried: our partners are very careful to ensure that Russia does not have top technologies.
And we ourselves are not able to create production lines in general with any technical process. There is simply no base - destroyed as a class in the 90s.

Therefore, we are buying "the day before yesterday".

But even on such technologies it is possible to make good combat computing systems - the performance is still enough. Russian engineers have always been able to compete with "asymmetric" solutions.

[cdrt]

Quote: Alez

The main thing is being done, today 64 NM, tomorrow 22 NM.

That something is being done well ...
Only now ... today 64, and 22 years from 8-10 ...
Actually, backwardness in this industry has always been for this period (and about 20 years ago, too)

[gandalf]

Good ... well done!

And how many gigaflops will this product produce if it is converted into 800 MHz?
If linear, then 50 * 2.5 = 125 gigaflops ...
This is a dozen processors and already 1 pentaflops ...

[Pilat2009]

Quote: gandalf

if its 800 MHz to turn into 2 GHz?

Without reducing the process technology, this is impossible.

[Irokez]

If you don’t do your own, then a lot of problems arise because of any kind of sanctions.
I support domestic developments, although they are not ideal and worse in speed. In military systems, they are normally used and operational, but there is no danger and dictate of foreign interventions.

[Professor]

Quote: Irokez

In military systems, they are normally used and operational, but there is no danger and dictate of foreign interventions.

It seems to me you are mistaken. Today, without American or Japanese equipment it is impossible to produce such a processor. This equipment requires constant support from the manufacturer ...

[tchoni]

I do not quite agree with you. almost 20 years ago, while studying, he came into contact with domestic manufacturers of equipment for the production of microcircuits. then 0.25 μm (250 nm) was shielded in chic, there were big developments (a working laboratory stand) in the 120 nm region (bourgeois used the technology for peaceful purposes at that time) and talked about prospects, among which 65 nm flashed (including talked about theoretically possible 12 nm) and smaller. So I think that there are a couple of domestic-made Sends (although it is possible on imported components) at 65 nm in mother Russia.

[Professor]

Quote: tchoni

So I think that there are a couple of domestic-made Sends (although it is possible on imported components) at 65 nm in mother Russia.

The company in which I work (60% of the market) supplies equipment to Russia. Of the competitors, there are Japanese (30%) and Swiss (~ 10%). Belarusians are doing something that has not changed since the days of the USSR, i.e. almost 30 year old mammoths. Elbrus-4C as far as I can see assembled using American flipchip technology. Equipment for fabs is made exclusively by Americans and Japanese.

[postman]

Quote: professor

Today, without American or Japanese equipment it is impossible to produce such a processor.

can
1. The geography of deliveries (in the Russian Federation) of electronic components is large, they are delivered from countries of Western Europe, America and Asia, they are made in Ukraine, in Belarus, Kyrgyzstan and Armenia
2. Military electronics, electronics for security and safety systems, to protect information, this area inaccessible or inaccessible in general to foreign manufacturers.
3.PEC manufacturers (passive electronic components)

In the coming years, the production of standard bulk PECs in the USA, Germany, Austria, Italy, Great Britain, and Japan will be significantly reduced or almost disappear.
4.PEC consumption

The Asia-Pacific region consumes the most, it produces there,
PEC production migrates to "cheap" countries with low wages and labor protection and environmental costs (primarily to China) much faster than semiconductor production. PIn addition to China, new PEC facilities have appeared in Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand, the Philippines, Mexico, Brazil, Hungary, the Czech Republic, and Croatia.
5. In most cases, the most modern Japanese equipment is installed in China, where you can produce high-quality products (Some Chinese PEC manufacturers are already on the list of eligible suppliers by the largest global CEA manufacturers.)
=====================
Of course not, if there is a "desire" to equip Russian military electronics with programmable logic chips from Altera (USA) .... then yes. Promblema ....

[Professor]

Quote: Postman

can

No, it is not possible. Critical equipment fabs: USA, Japan. Wafer cutting: USA, Japan. Soldering (interconnect) USA, Japan, Switzerland. Etc

Quote: JonnyT

The exception is only the testing and control department - there Belarusians and ours have fairly good developments .......

Does not make up. Testing equipment (including the Russian Micron) KLA-Tenkor, Applied Materials.
Mikron - the heart of Russian microelectronics

[JonnyT]

Quote: professor

Does not make up. Testing equipment (including the Russian Micron) KLA-Tenkor, Applied Materials.
Mikron - the heart of Russian microelectronics

The heart of Russian microelectronics is not only in a micron ... one should not forget about Voronezh (KTC Electronics, Diaghilev, NIIET, etc.), about Moscow itself (TsNIIHM, NIISI RAS) about small offices such as Milandr, which are scattered around all of Russia.
Well, not only is this on a micron ..... I'm talking about testing a wafer before cutting ..... I personally saw Belarusian probers on a micron (which, by the way, are superior in some respects to Japanese acretecs) and Russian FT-17HF testers (they of course far from teradines, but still) ......

[Professor]

Quote: JonnyT

The heart of Russian microelectronics is not only in a micron ... one should not forget about Voronezh (KTC Electronics, Diaghilev, NIIET, etc.), about Moscow itself (TsNIIHM, NIISI RAS) about small offices such as Milandr, which are scattered around all of Russia.

There, the situation is fundamentally no different.

Quote: JonnyT

Well, not only is this on a micron ..... I'm talking about testing a wafer before cutting ..... I personally saw Belarusian probers on a micron (which, by the way, are superior in some respects to Japanese acretecs) and Russian FT-17HF testers (they of course far from teradines, but still) ......

And I'm talking about such testers. I saw a report from a Russian plant and well discerned the familiar KLA-Tenkor technique with Kulicke & Soffa samples.
I don’t dare to speculate about the characteristics of Belarusian testers, I don’t have any information, but outside the CIS they are not in special demand, and soldering devices are definitely 30 years behind.

[atalef]

Quote: professor

with Kulicke & Soffa samples.

Oleg, this plant in Yoknam is in my opinion. Is it there silicone substrates (or what is called) cut?
It’s just that I have a substation near (near Keter), so it intersected with one that works at this plant, he told.

[Professor]

What the wafer and substrate cutting machines do was sold and is now called ADT. Now she is in Yokneam as K & S itself.

[postman]

Quote: professor

Critical Phab Equipment

A Frost & Sullivan spokesman said: “China is vital for electronic component manufacturers. If you are not in China, it means that you do not intend to fight for survival>.
in the UES, USA (probably in the Russian Federation) there will be only the production of components for harsh operating conditions (for example, with an operating temperature of up to 150 or 175 ° C), precision components with narrow tolerances, high-voltage components (with a rated voltage of more than 500 V), high-frequency components (for frequencies over 1 GHz), special components for military and aerospace equipment, radars, radio transmitters, etc., EVERYTHING THAT provides high profitability (in some cases - up to 45%), but requires specific know-how, high reliability and quality of products, appropriate instrumentation, highly qualified technical staff, well-organized customer service.

Quote: professor

Testing equipment (including at the Russian Micron)

I agree, everything is the same as in a helicopter, aircraft, etc. construction.
BUT IT IS ALREADY IN THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION! Is not it?

[Professor]

Quote: Postman

BUT IT IS ALREADY IN THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION! Is not it?

Without constant support and supplies from abroad, all this equipment is just a pile of metal. I know what I'm talking about, I have been working in this area for a long time.

[postman]

Quote: professor

I know what I'm talking about, I have been working in this area for a long time.

I believe it.
From all that I know: I visited the simens assembly line, somewhere in NRW.
I remember the vacuum cleaners. the rest is not very

=========
And in Israel what are they working on?

[Professor]

Quote: Postman

And in Israel what are they working on?

In Israel, the fabs of Intel, Jazz and every little thing. The equipment is American and Japanese. KLA-Tenkor, Applied, K&S are doing in Israel itself.

[tchoni]

Tell me, dear Professor, what is your company called, if not a secret of course?

[Professor]

Quote: tchoni

Tell me, dear Professor, what is your company called, if not a secret of course?

Secret

[JonnyT]

It is sad to admit, of course, but almost all the equipment for the production of microprocessors is made abroad! The exception is only the testing and control department - there Belarusians and ours have fairly good developments .......
Even simple installation of resisting and then foreign .... but I'm not talking about furnaces, splicing, bonding, etching ..... (((((

[saag]

Quote: Alez

tomorrow 22 NM

not even the day after tomorrow :-) but after 10 years, under a favorable set of circumstances

[Irokez]

Pessimism is "OFF".
It has not yet arrived tomorrow, and you are already defeating us. Thoughts and predictions must be positive, and you sow negative that affects the future, and then say that everything is bad.

[saag]

I put? "It is worth noting that the Russian company is approximately 8-10 years behind Intel in terms of the manufacturing process. The most modern processors Intel i3 and Intel i5, built on the Ivy Bridge architecture, are manufactured using the 22 nm process technology. The process technology uses 65-nanometer technologies. began to be used by the world's leading manufacturers of microprocessors in 2004, and such processors went into serial production in 2006 "
So this is more of an objective reality, and not my pessimism :-)

[theadenter]

Intel i3, i5, i7 are mass processors for the home.
In combat conditions, they will die from ordinary pickups from electrical equipment and powerful transmitters. In the conditions of shaking, the cooling system will easily fail, radiators, liquid cooling units will break off and at the most critical moment everything will stop working.
Moisture, metal dust can also damage the device - strong heating of the processor will prevent the use of enclosed structures with protection against splashes and dust.

The defense should be trouble-free and stable, and not necessarily heavy-duty and small processors. Not for toy games, these processors are needed. And besides, for most tasks, 800 MHz x4 cores will be above the roof. Do not forget that Intel performs up to 2-3 operations per cycle, and here up to 27.

[Professor]

As a person who has worked for more than a decade in the semiconductor industry, only two things interest me:
1. What equipment was the processor created on?
2. What is yild?

[ism_ek]

In China, I most likely do it. Our only documentation is being developed.
It is necessary to compare it not with intel, but with ARM

[postman]

Quote: professor

1. What equipment was the processor created on?

Development work "Development of a microprocessor with the Elbrus architecture, adapted for production in a domestic factory", completion date 2014

1.Elbrus 2000 (E2K) -Produced in June 2008 at the TSMC factory in Taiwan on the basis of a library of standard cells, correspondingly the 4-core is the same somewhere
or
2. Domestic production is used equipment from Fab 30 from AMD.

[zorch]

Great news! Who owns the information, owns the world. So the safety of information is very important. And your electronics and software need to be developed. The Chinese have long been on Linux.

[Wheel]

Quote: zorch

The Chinese have long been on Linux.

The tench is not a panacea, but rather the same dead-end branch as the windows.
The farther, the more clumsy both systems become.
A lot of bells and whistles - less and less sense.
You need something of your own, original on the micromodular principle.

[iConst]

Quote: Wheel

Quote: zorch

The Chinese have long been on Linux.

The tench is not a panacea, but rather the same dead-end branch as the windows.
The farther, the more clumsy both systems become.
A lot of bells and whistles - less and less sense.
You need something of your own, original on the micromodular principle.

What does the window?
Dear, you are not in the subject: Linux is the core. And like any core can be improved.
And then, what do you do with the core: Debians, Mandrivas and Tuevs, others, these are your problems. You draw a heavy clumsy GUY - dry the oars ... And this we often observe.

[virm]

A year or two ago, there was a lot of talk that Kaspersky Lab was starting to develop its own operating system. Designed mainly for process control systems. Not on Linux. But, something is not heard of this. And it would be nice to get hold of the domestic axis. Moreover, LC could provide normal support.

[Nayhas]

Whose did not tell the story? Like in 2006 Angstrem-T signed a contract with AMD in 2007 bought a used line in Dresden as soon as 2012 brought it to Russia ... and now the production is ready for the release of what was produced in 2006, but with a sticker in Cyrillic ...
That's just according to plans back in 2010. should have reached production volumes of 360-400 million euros per year, and in the yard already 2014 and they just started ...

[Colonel]

Quote: Nayhas

did not voice the history of the issue

"Elbrus" flew on Soviet orbital stations (including "Mir") and coped well. The question is - why didn't they develop production ???. Either because of pathological secrecy, or why else.

[postman]

Quote: colonel

"Elbrus" flew on Soviet orbital stations (including "Mir") and coped well.

?
1. The WORLD (with blocks) functioned from February 20, 1986 to March 23, 2001.
2. Elbrus "- a series of Soviet supercomputerin, developed at the Institute of Precision Mechanics and Computer Engineering in the 1970-1980s (take a look below TOTAL AREA AND CAPACITY USED)
3.Soviet spacecraft / orbital stations did not have full board computer- For this, small-sized computers were used, in the memory of which standard flight operation control programs were stored (wired).
THESE on-board computers were "made" on the basis of armored vehicles from MBT or on-board computers of tactical ballistic missile complexes

4.BCVM series "Argon-1" for the mobile operational-tactical missile system "Tochka" - for the lunar program, based on it "Argon-11S", Argon-16 "(25 years old !!!)- in ALL "Soyuz", transport aircraft "Progress", orbital stations "Salyut" and "Mir", on-board computers of the C series (in particular, "S-530") - in control systems of the interplanetary stations "Mars" and "Venus"

[Colonel]

I'm not going to argue with you, especially since I don't have such colorful illustrations at hand. I am using the information that I received back in 1988 when I was retraining in Plesetsk for "Topol".

[UzRus]

It is worth noting that the Russian company is approximately 8-10 years behind Intel in the manufacturing process. - Well, they found something to compare! This goes without saying, because Intel is a leading global manufacturer. It's okay, the most important thing is to start. And to provide the defense industry with our own developments.

[cosmos111]

Quote: UzRus

l Intel is a leading global manufacturer.

Russian products, excluding "bookmarks", this is the main thing ((((
in military equipment, the elemental base should be at 100%, Russian or Belarusian production (((

and on what equipment and on what technology, this is already secondary !!!

[Professor]

Quote: cosmos111

and on what equipment and on what technology, this is already secondary !!!

primary, since with the introduction of elementary sanctions, all production will simply rise.

[kare]

Do not get up.
Yes, and it would be more likely to impose these sanctions, here I directly agree with your ardent desire

[Professor]

Quote: kare

Do not get up.
Yes, and it would be more likely to impose these sanctions, here I directly agree with your ardent desire

1. Get up and it is guaranteed. I have already indicated the reasons.
2. I have not expressed my desire yet.

[Wheel]

Quote: professor

primary, since with the introduction of elementary sanctions, all production will simply rise.

Professor, you underestimate the mechanic Uncle Vasya, and, it seems, comes from our former ...

[atalef]

Quote: Wheel

Quote: professor

primary, since with the introduction of elementary sanctions, all production will simply rise.

Professor, you underestimate the mechanic Uncle Vasya, and, it seems, comes from our former ...

I know the plumbing Vasily, by the way a good plumber (I can even advise the residents of Haifa), but I’m afraid I won’t cope with electronics, but with an adjustable wrench

[postman]

Quote: atalef

yes with an adjustable wrench - I'm afraid not to cope

There is, after all, the acroma of Vasya and others, not with a wrench, but with a tunneling microscope.
Electronic structure of a tungsten atom at the tip of a probe. Changing the distance between the tungsten atom at the tip of the probe and the carbon atom of the graphite surface allows you to "probe" the various electron orbitals in the tungsten atom. Images were obtained by Alexander Chaika at the Institute of Physics and Technology of the Russian Academy of Sciences using a GPI-300 microscope (in the laboratory of surface phenomena of the AM Prokhorov Institute of General Physics of the Russian Academy of Sciences (IOFRAN) in 1998, an industrial sample of the GPI 300 ultra-high-speed scanning tunneling microscope was created and its production was launched. GPI 300 was delivered to Italy at the University of Florence and is still used in research). The horizontal and vertical scales are indicated - 30 picometers (0,03 nm)

or ... The Russian ship laser complex received gold at an innovative salon in Switzerland, a powerful ship laser complex created at Astrophysics (Patent of the Russian Federation No. 2463200 dated 10.10.2012) is able to cut ice cover 1-2 meters thick

It would seem Iran ....
Well, here is RoboCup Iran Open 2014, THE IRANIANS WON !!!

=========
Not gods (Israelites) pots burn current

[fzr1000]

Intel owns a stake in ICSTC. Then draw your own conclusions.

[shuhartred]

Quote: fzr1000

Intel owns a stake in ICSTC. Then draw your own conclusions.

How big?

[fzr1000]

Well, who's to say.

[postman]

Quote: fzr1000

Well, who's to say.

Intel Corporation ....
just say nothing, because there is no fact of purchase

[postman]

Quote: fzr1000

Intel owns a stake in MCST

1. CJSC “MCST” is the assignee of LLP “Moscow Center for SPARC-Technologies (ICST)”
with a closed joint-stock company (it’s not an open joint stock company), it’s not so simple that the purchase of shares requires the consent of all shareholders.
2.Despite Intel's announcement of a purchase agreement for MCST and UniPro, there have been no reports of the execution of this agreement.
3.Intel Corp. has picked up several design teams from Elbrus MCST, the legendary microprocessor design house that at one time set its sights on the Itanium processor.
4.http: //egrul.nalog.ru/
Information about the entries made in the register with respect to the legal entity.
since 2004 changes in the register -NO, IMHO: nothing Intel bought

[fzr1000]

I'm just glad.

[Fanat1984]

And who prevents you from imposing "big and fat" on intel?

[Nitarius]

NEEDS TO PRODUCE IT! for MASS and not engage in LITTLE LITTLE!
PEOPLE WILL TAKE FOR THE SAMPLE and prestige! I think it is NECESSARY AND to do my own for it!

[vitalm]

A game version must be thrown onto the market in Russia to support the defense industry and to compete with Intel

[Tehb]

It’s normal for workstations, so first transfer the government and government agencies to your computers, though for games it’s unlikely, it is very difficult to intercept the market for gaming computers, because there competition is above the roof. The truth is likely to turn out like with cars.

[DAGESTAN333]

I will say one thing - domestic iron (for home use), with the same power, I will buy, even if it will be twice as expensive! Let's guys, don't let me down!

[Normal]

Quote: DAGESTANETS333

I will say one thing - domestic iron .... I will buy, even if it is ....

Greetings, Magomed.
Do you drive a Priora?

[shuhartred]

Quote: Normal

Do you drive a Priora?

My Kalina is 5 years old, running 250000, starts at -42 (always), a family of 4 with luggage every summer carries south and back (more than 6000 km) without problems. I am serviced by an official dealer (per year about 10 000 rub.). For all the time there was one jamb with a stove (for us it’s actual half a year winter). It's just a car, everything else (BMW, Mercedes, etc.) Ponte and options (IMHO). More questions? P.S Retrofitted a bit (differential. Increased friction and spacers in the suspension, the clearance became 185mm under protection) now finally a jeep.

[saag]

Quote: shuhartred

Retrofitted a bit (differential. Increased friction

To Kalina?

[shuhartred]

Quote: saag

To Kalina?

Yes, why? I ordered it via the Internet and delivered it. Great thing.

[saag]

and the point of doing this in a single-drive, than the drive did not please?

[shuhartred]

Quote: saag

and the point of doing this in a single-drive, than the drive did not please?

The cross is better, the start on ice is more confident, and the slippery turns are better. I say the winter is half a year, and my mother sometimes sweeps snow. Yes, and through the mud of Voronezh passed where others got up.

[Normal]

Quote: shuhartred

Kalina 5 years old, mileage 250000, starts at -42 (always),a family of 4 with luggage every summer takes south and back (more than 6000 km)

Everyday, everyday heroism is an integral quality of the Russian people, this is understandable.
But the fact that viburnum travels 50000 km a year and for five years nothing but a stove broke on it is not science fiction. Here I will be Stanislavsky, since I live from birth in Russia, skated two domestic cars and was related to Soviet industrial production.

Quote: shuhartred

It's just a car

Of course! Himself 10 years went to the products of the domestic auto industry and I understand that our car is not a luxury but a means of transportation, and for minimal money. It’s not about any comfort (it’s not about the show-offs, but the fact that I simply didn’t fit there with my height), they simply don’t talk about the quality of manufacturing - it goes and thanks! Moreover, you can fix it at night in a clean field on your knee.

Quote: shuhartred

More questions?

God forbid! What questions? Blessed is he who believes. Arguing with a believer is not a rewarding business (until recently, 20-25 years ago, my friends quite seriously argued that there is no better car than a Zhiguli. Now they are all on budget and not very "foreign cars" and prefer not to remember)

Quote: shuhartred

Retrofitted a little

Well, the thing! Our machine hands (and not curves) requires.

[shuhartred]

Quote: Normal

five years on it nothing but a stove broke - this is not science fiction

Not as it did not break. Of course, the entire suspension is non-native. Wheel bearings changed, silencer, wiper motor, etc. I mean that there were no critical failures in the open field when it does not go at all. And so, something changed on time, something of necessity, but the car always got home by itself.

Quote: Normal

God forbid! What questions? Blessed is he who believes.

I do not belong to the holy believers in the domestic auto industry. And I will not prove with foam at the mouth that our cars are better. Had a ride on a decent foreign cars. Words no level is completely different. But for my modest budget, Kalina is the most it. And probably I was just lucky with the car (I allocated the stove because I put the pig at -30, the benefit was not far from home)

[postman]

Quote: shuhartred

My Kalina 5 years old, mileage 250000

1. Place your fret Kalina in the AvtoVAZ Museum, under a glass cover (well, as in Stuttgart, in museums, with Mercedes, BMW, Porsche)
There are problems on the body - the doors sagged? Are there any problems with the rust of the tailgate? Is the car still starting, slowing down and able to move?
2.You have traveled around the equator almost 6,5 times, in 5 years, driving every summer to the sea (6000 km round trip, well, a bit in the city)
3. At one time, I traveled a lot around Europe, it turned out 2-5000 km per month, and it's hard. But this is very difficult in Europe (autobahn), in the Russian Federation, experience of 22 years, as the categories are everything except pass. the bus.

Quote: shuhartred

everything else (BMW, Mercedes, etc.) Ponte and options (IMHO)

Joker ... since 1994 only foreign cars, call them (foreign cars) ponty-stupidity

Quote: shuhartred

Retrofitted a bit (differential. Increased friction and spacers in the suspension, the clearance became 185mm under protection)

To make changes to the design of the car, not approved by the manufacturer, and not made to the OTTS-crime (traffic rules of the Russian Federation, Civil Code and Criminal Code of the Russian Federation).
1. from 185 mm - do not roll over in a bend, the CM increased (did you calculate and compensate?), The stiffness of the anti-roll bars, as I understand it, did NOT CHANGE? (And in other matters, are they SPU in LK?)
2.

Quote: shuhartred

Yes, and turns on slippery better pass

WORSE. That's why he is a differential. Try to enter the turn on your unloved "show-offs" with a locked differential (almost all of them turn off at 40-60 km / h)
Such locks work in a relatively small range of torque ratios (capacities), which is probably tolerable for LCs and VERY FAST WEAR.
3.

Quote: shuhartred

Now finally a jeep.

Like that?

[shuhartred]

Quote: Postman

, well, the city is so FEW)

Actually, I still work on it in a taxi

Quote: Postman

call them (foreign cars) ponty-stupidity

Precisely a show off. You compare the prices.

Quote: Postman

To make changes to the design of the car, not approved by the manufacturer, and not made to the OTTS-crime (traffic rules of the Russian Federation, Civil Code and Criminal Code of the Russian Federation).

Yes, do not care, still not visible.

Quote: Postman

from 185 mm - do not roll over in a bend,

I’m not a racer, but the declared clearance of Viburnum is 170mm, so I didn’t add so much.

Quote: Postman

(And in other matters, are they SPU in LK?

On mine there. Maybe there are more advanced versions?

Quote: Postman

WORSE. That's why he is a differential.

On personal feelings better. Maybe it seems (just don’t say need to be baptized)

Quote: Postman

Try on your unloved "show-offs"

I did not say that I do not like foreign cars. They just can’t afford me. So show off (probably envy ) .A function of the car, and they both perform.

Quote: Postman

VERY FAST WEAR.

I traveled with him 35000. While working. About the video. The driver of viburnum was a woodpecker, of course, but he got out. I wouldn’t just go there, tea is not UAZ. And compared with other (not equipped) viburnum my jeep (almost)

[postman]

Quote: shuhartred

Actually, I still work on it in a taxi

Anyway, for 250000km MUCH (very), poorly trusted. Is it that you do not live in St. Petersburg and regularly travel around the Ring Road (well, as I have from Culture, to Peterhof, c / o Kronstadt)
I have a taxi company, my friends (though THEY EXCLUSIVELY USE MERCEDES ONLY), I can give calculations on the runs.

Quote: shuhartred

Precisely a show off. You compare the prices.

What is worth is worth. COMPARE QUALITY, safety, comfort, and? And you can close the discussion. I WILL NOT SIT, and I will not give my wife and children.
Yes, just try to drive to Lada Kalina in a day (Peter-Hanko-Peter, or Trafemünde-Zurich-Milan (if overpower) .. you will be UNRELATEDLY SURPRISED.

Quote: shuhartred

Yes, do not care, still not visible.

For myself, yes for God's sake, but the ATC means a high danger. And if you flip around and THREAT WHO (fie, fie kids for example?).
SEE IMMEDIATELY
From experience, I saw several times CAPTURE in GERMANY (policemen with an analogue of a large CYLINDER, at night) -measurement of CLEARANCE for young people ... no certificate from TUV, Dekra-otnenie from management, roadside car or tow truck. There really fought with LOW clearance (pseudo-snub ", to increase the clearance, there, except for the DOP does not come to anyone's brain ...

Quote: shuhartred

On mine there.

mdya without stabilizer increased stability with increased clearance .....

Quote: shuhartred

And the function of the car, and they both perform.

the cart also performs the "function"
==============
Well, at least
The new Renault Logan 2 - Renault Logan / Sandero 2014, in full, in full, as L. informed yesterday of something in the region of 450000 rubles
http://cache.zr.ru/wpfiles/uploads/2013/02/201302021258_1-575x366.jpg

Quote: shuhartred

On personal feelings better

I remember, I remember ... a neighbor in 1996: "I'm flying this way to Helsinki on my 99th, 201 km / h on the speedometer .." Me:? , uh .. factory manufacturer maximum speed165 (ideal conditions, landfill), ett how ?. О: "Yes, they lie, they underestimate" I: What about nafuya?

Quote: shuhartred

but he got out

He is back!!!

Quote: shuhartred

And compared with other (not equipped) viburnum my jeep (almost)

once on a gelena I went for a spruce ... To open the door, I had to:
-open the glass
- use a shovel to clear the door opening area (it was enough to take the mind with you)
- plunge into the snow
- using a shovel, snowy get to the spruce
- cut down, dig up the tailgate, load and leave (1/3 rear)

Well, try to go for fungus galleries, kudanitt for Sortavala ...

[Wheel]

Quote: Postman

Yes, just try to drive to Lada Kalina in a day (Peter-Hanko-Peter, or Trafemünde-Zurich-Milan (if overpower) .. you will be UNRELATEDLY SURPRISED.

Surprised by what?
Distance?
So different perceptions of distance in central Russia and east of it.
To me in the regional center and back 600+ and nothing, I do not consider a feat.
And it depends on individuality.
For example, in 12, I went with my families to Stavropol (from Perm), he was squeezed like a lemon on the Coroll at the end of the journey, I am awake on Ode.
2500km in 32 hours with rest.

Quote: Postman

What is worth is worth. COMPARE QUALITY, safety, comfort, and? And you can close the discussion. I WILL NOT SIT, and I will not give my wife and children.

Well, your right.
The taste and color of all markers are different.

[postman]

Quote: Wheel

So different perceptions of distance in central Russia and east of it.

Ring Road St. Petersburg 142 km

In OTP, go from the north to Peterhof, there and back, 200km. So what?
Familiar to work in the Len.region travels 278 km there and back. How far away do you want to surprise me?

Quote: Wheel

2500km in 32 hours with rest.

Go fishing in Trondheim without sleep.
The conversation is not about who has more / longer, but about 250000 km in 5 years and "like new"

Quote: Wheel

Well, your right.

Well, thanks, reassured. Only I do not understand? I, what did you ask permission?
RETURN (if you can) to the subject of the dispute. USU?

[shuhartred]

Quote: Postman

Anyway, for 250000km MUCH (very), poorly trusted. Is it that you do not live in St. Petersburg and regularly travel around the Ring Road (well, as I have from Culture, to Peterhof, c / o Kronstadt)

I live in Murmansk and, among other things, I often travel to the region (Lovozero). I am writing what is and your faith or disbelief is somehow violet.

Quote: Postman

And you can close the discussion. I WILL NOT SIT, and I will not give my wife and children.

If you have money for a decent foreign car, and I only have a VAZ, so now I need to ride a bus. I need a car, but I have no choice.

Quote: Postman

.will be UNPLEASANTLY SURPRISED.

You say that to me. I drove on it without rest from Petrozavodsk to Voronezh, and this is 1500 km (approximately). I will not say that as a cucumber, but it could well continue to go.

Quote: Postman

. And if you tumble

What if you? No one is safe from road accidents and I don’t have to soar that because of the 15mm clearance my car will start tumbling for a year already, and I don’t even see any special rolls.

Quote: Postman

the cart also performs the "function"

Cart function yes, no car.

Quote: Postman

New Renault Logan 2 - Renault Logan / Sandero 2014

I took the car in 2009 for 280000r. Sandero did not smell then. And on Logan, the test drive skated and ran away from this squalor, shouting "mind me". I liked Kalina much more, and I don’t have 450kilorubli

Quote: Postman

I remember, I remember ... a neighbor in 1996

You confuse differential lock, with Diff. Increased friction, it does not block hard.

Quote: Postman

He is back!!!

Of course he returned, only on the tank.

Quote: Postman

on gelene once went for a spruce ..

Well, try on your gelene to go where the auger has passed, or GTS. I don’t go mushrooming on viburnum, I haven’t lost my mind yet, I just left the yard in a snowstorm, and the rest (not jeeps) remained there. Without a shovel. And to compare gelendvagen with viburnum in general ... like a tank with a tractor. No need to boast of their welfare. I have what it is and I like it. You do not like your right to scold the car why?

[postman]

Quote: shuhartred

No need to boast of your wealth

1. Something you suffered as maydanuty. WHERE IS THIS I "boasted"?
2. And with a lock and a friction differential, I don’t confuse anything, education will not allow it. Read at your leisure (which is an educational program), you will understand: both about speed and about turns. :

Quote: shuhartred

yes and turns slippery is better

technical nonsense
3.Pro gelen, I'm talking about the "off-road vehicle" viburnum. REALLY not getting it?
4.

Quote: shuhartred

You say that to me. I drove without rest from Petrozavodsk to Voronezh, and this is 1500 km (approximately)

Of course, about "250000".
No rest (s): SPB-Trondheim, around Botniki, without a ferry, something around 2200 km, with mountains and the presence of an oxygen mask. SO WHAT?
Violet, so violet, the main thing is not PIG. It is important. An argument is an argument, and a screech is for acne.
5.

Quote: shuhartred

What if you?

you with reason how? Are available?
I, that made changes to the design of the ATS, NOT foreseen by the manufacturer and not registered in the OTTS.
"I'm talking about Foma, and you are closer to your body"

Quote: shuhartred

and don’t need to soar me because of the 15mm clearance

In my opinion you are already soared by someone. Or poorly educated.
15 mm, it is 0,0015 x 750 kg (or how much?) X 10 kg / s2 = give = 12.25 Nm TIP (so for reference N viburnum, twisting = Nm 132 / at 3800 rpm.
10%
+ aerodynamics (lifting force) due to the increased position of the bottom (even more
SIMPLY physics, mathematics at grade level 9

Quote: shuhartred

You do not like your right to scold the car why?

1. I did not scold, I expressed my opinion
I don’t know how it is now, but before talking about gaps, I didn’t have to talk about a credit card (Ferdinand Peh and VW Golf4), in my opinion there (into the gaps) the shovel climbed, and the gap changed in length.
2.And I (remember) expressed JUSTIFIED doubts in the "fairy tale" about 250 km in 000 years and

Quote: shuhartred

For all the time there was one jamb with a stove (with us it’s actual half a year winter)

(which was later disproved by ourselves)
THAT'S ALL. And do not spray with saliva

[shuhartred]

Quote: Postman

1. Something you suffered as maydanuty. WHERE IS THIS I "boasted"?

I have a Gelendvagen, only foreign cars. It offends me. I want it too. But there is no money.

Quote: Postman

, I'm talking about the "SUV" viburnum. REALLY not getting it?

Where did I write about the SUV? I said just patency increased relative to other passenger cars.

Quote: Postman

+ aerodynamics (lifting force) due to the increased position of the bottom (even more
SIMPLY physics, mathematics at grade level 9

So what? Reduce cornering speed and everything is fine. We have half the city rides on spacers.

Quote: Postman

, the main thing is not to SAG.

Well, who sprinkles saliva?

Quote: Postman

JUSTIFIED doubts about the "fairy tale" of 250 km in 000 years and

I get to work from work 80km + in the evening I take a taxi (100-150km) about 1000km a week, plus trips to the region, which is incredible here. I love to post.

Quote: Postman

N viburnum, twisting = Nm 132 / at3800 about. min

Do you always ride at maximum torque?

Quote: Postman

(which was later disproved by ourselves)

I do not consider the routine replacement as a jamb. There was a joint with the stove. Now I will do engine overhaul and paint. "How new" I did not say.

Quote: Postman

. And do not spray with saliva

And what flew?

[postman]

Quote: shuhartred

I have a Gelendvagen, only foreign cars.

Gelen was a long time ago and boo, and (and for the sake of your interest, the TD and AKP were not from the serial model, but EVERYTHING (!) even the MB base was carried out). I did not "boast", but stated a fact. I'll stay with the opinion: I'd rather buy a used VW 35 than a LC

Quote: shuhartred

But there is no money.

Earn, I’ll hand over each personal income tax code, HOW MUCH I pay VAT and NP and SS every quarter and TP every week I am silent.

Quote: shuhartred

Where did I write about the SUV?

=

Quote: shuhartred

now finally jeep.

?
I hope you did not suspect that LK. After installation, spacers acquired the brand name from Chrysler as a Jeep?

Quote: shuhartred

We have half the city rides on spacers.

I remember the beginning of the 90s half of the country "went" with a device that prevents echo corrosion (power supply from 12V BS), and with all sorts of crap: turbulators, fuel magnetisers.

Quote: shuhartred

Reduce cornering speed and everything is fine.

= how does this correlate with

Quote: shuhartred

yes and slippery turns better passes.

can it be easier and more reliable to DOWN the entry speed? movement in tightness? good tires for the season?

Quote: shuhartred

I love to post.

and I loved and a lot (wrote 2-5000km per month), now it’s laziness, I just KNOW about what I argue and say

Quote: shuhartred

Do you always ride at maximum torque?

And what does this have to do? I gave a figure for comparison.
By the way, the overturning moment I have calculated is not quite true.
Add the weight of passengers 4h75kg, luggage, fuel.
No, of course, until it is not "overturned", but in motion, at a turn, the LIKELY is great.
Why do you think the Scandinavian track is called Death Road? (including because of such "tunings")

Quote: shuhartred

And what flew?

и

Quote: shuhartred

Well, who sprinkles saliva?

That was my reaction to your words (just read above)

[postman]

Quote: shuhartred

I do not consider routine replacement as a jamb.

Now, to be honest, based on my life experience, I do not believe that you did not have a replacement, repair (which is not "planned":
- generator belt tension mechanism
- corrosion of all loops
-Corrosion of the steering clutch (collapse is not possible to do after 3000km, requires replacement of all traction along with the tip)
- the wedge of the thrust bearings of the front struts, due to their lack of tightness, dirt gets in, so they wedge - CLAKS when turning
-heater radiator leak and as a result the engine control unit caput
- contact wires of reverse gear fly off and oxidize
Timing Belt Bearing
- rotten muffler
-Sealers for doors and windows?
-sensors, pipes and pompasistemy cooling?
- LCP corrosion?
= but it often happens: the valve seats burn out, a crack in the engine block, shock absorbers flow, wedge the box
and so on.
(approx. regulatory, what is in the service book and date card)
Below there is the opinion of the owner about the official service.
(By the way, I don’t go to our "officials" and I don’t go on a foreign car, stupid managers)

[shuhartred]

Quote: Postman

I will remain with the opinion: it’s better to buy a used VW 35 than a LC

For God's sake.

Quote: Postman

I remember the beginning of the 90s half of the country "went" with a device that prevents echo corrosion (power supply from 12V BS), and with all sorts of crap: turbulators, fuel magnetisers.

Spacers perform their task, but all this crap does not work.

Quote: Postman

can it be easier and more reliable to DOWN the entry speed? movement in tightness? good tires for the season?

A little bit about that speech. This refers to the entrance to sharp turns at low speed (in the yards). I got into ice and when she rowes with two wheels she pulls it better into a turn, I’d say more confidently

Quote: Postman

And what does this have to do? I gave a figure for comparison.

Sorry was inattentive. I wrote the answer and went fishing. For two days I thought "what does the torque have to do with it?"

Quote: Postman

I just KNOW about what I argue and say

Do you think I don’t know? For reference. A friend bought Renault Scenic1. 2000g.v. So he has a service book. According to her, the car was bought in 2000. and the last time serviced in 2004 (in Germany) mileage on the last MOT 164000km. HOW this burgher has wound so much in Europe. And Russia is not Europe for you; we will have more distances.

Quote: Postman

That was my reaction to your words (just read above)

That is, you can respond and I can not?

Quote: Postman

I hope you did not suspect that LK. After installation, spacers acquired the brand name from Chrysler as a Jeep?

How serious we are. You will also stop somewhere Oka with the inscription "I will grow up to become a jeep." And explain to the person (seriously with all the evidence) that machines don't grow. And JP is where it came from "jeep" stands for "general purpose". You cannot say more precisely about viburnum.

[postman]

Quote: shuhartred

Spacers perform their task

manufacturer and Avtovaz Group of Companies, not so stupid, familiar with everyday life (the clearance of our cars is the most, and so on to the maximum).
If this could be done at the factory (as well as the friction differential) - I would.
It doesn’t, it means that handling and stability are lost, especially in corners.
Have you ever wondered why on the Audi q79 with air suspension), the loading mode (maximum height) only works up to 20km / h (though in the snow, there’s enough to drive along the curb), and then FORCE the car drops to the data in the OTTS (and this adjustable stiffness SPR and suspension)

Quote: shuhartred

HOW this burgher has wound so much in Europe.

I got it 10 days before 5000.
Zhilv Bielefeld, for business it is necessary to Munich, round-trip, and then to Hamburg, etc., etc.
The usual thing. Lang strecke Fahrzeug called.
To show "Russia is not Europe for you" look at the density and length of roads, everything will be clear

Quote: shuhartred

That is, you can respond and I can not?

but what is primary? (Hu from the first?), The answer is here

Quote: shuhartred

How serious are we

I just gave an example: calling Lk a Jeep, you mean that she is an SUV (she got up suddenly). Read carefully about Jer (JEEP_) read

[shuhartred]

Quote: Postman

manufacturer and Avtovaz Group of Companies, not so stupid, familiar with everyday life (the clearance of our cars is the most, and so on to the maximum).
If this could be done at the factory (as well as the friction differential) - I would.

Here you are moving off the topic. You write about the bulb of the hydrosweiser, I tell you about the spacers, and you tell me about the Audi with air suspension. I wouldn’t make a mistake about them; they haven’t been able to make decent cars for 30 years, they haven’t even improved the build quality. All VAZs are at the level of the 90s. And the Renault about which I wrote diff. Increased friction from the factory is. The request there was sent and is still working.

Quote: Postman

To show "Russia is not Europe for you" look at the density and length of roads, everything will be clear

I do not argue for density. And about the length (talking about Germany), compare the size of the countries and everything will be clear. Or do you want to say that every German on weekends throughout Europe rides?

Quote: Postman

but what is primary? (Hu from the first?), The answer is here

Well, in general, a kindergarten. "Mary Ivanna and Petrov started the first." Read the comments.

Quote: Postman

calling Lk a Jeep, you mean that she is an SUV (suddenly got up)

No matter what you want to say, it is important how you understand. You misunderstood me.

Quote: Postman

Read carefully about Jer (JEEP_) read

What am I supposed to see there? Jeep is the common name for a class of cars. You called your Gelik a jeep or what? And I always added in parentheses almost, be careful. And with the spacers you convinced me. I’ll google it on this topic, but I’ll most likely take it off. In all other respects, I'm sorry, I remain with my own. About two months later I’ll sell viburnum and take the Patriot. On it the truth is no longer driving. The toad will strangle.

[shuhartred]

Quote: Postman

- cut down, dig up the tailgate, load and leave (1/3 rear)

You were thrown there by helicopter. The tailgate must be free. Well, have you stopped there before?

Quote: Postman

once on a gelena I went for a spruce ... To open the door, I had to:
-open the glass
- use a shovel to clear the door opening area (it was enough to take the mind with you)
- plunge into the snow

Do you know how it is hard to believe. The jeep is certainly notable, but heavy. He sat on his belly and everything, only a tractor.

[postman]

Quote: shuhartred

The tailgate must be free. Well, have you stopped there before?

move straight, turn left, turn a little back, collect snow dump at the trunk door. Let me remind you in the forest, behind the spruce

Quote: shuhartred

The jeep is certainly notable, but heavy. He sat on his belly and everything, only a tractor.

for 3 years did not sit down. snow is not dirt, blocking all (! 3 magic buttons) differentials,



limit engine torque against snow blade, front / rear.
Note I had a turbodiesel, the dependence of the torque of a gasoline engine on revolutions was not very worrying
In winter, of course ALWAYS winter tires.

[shuhartred]

Quote: shuhartred

.Place your fret Kalina in the AvtoVAZ Museum, under a glass cap

It’s interesting and where is the penny of the early 80s, which, no matter what, travels. The main components of the car (engine, transmission, brakes) have never failed me, including due to regular maintenance and timely replacement of consumables. If you follow the car, any one will last for a long time, and without a mind even foreign cars you love so much for the year can be thrown into the trash. There were precedents. Last year's photo.

[postman]

Quote: shuhartred

It’s interesting and where is the place for the pennies of the early 80s, which, in spite of everything, go

In a landfill.
- "killer on the road"
polluting our homeland

Quote: shuhartred

but crazy and so beloved foreign cars for a year you can go into the trash

There is no "love", all the more it does not matter. I had so many ...
1.If you don’t follow, the domestic one will still sway (much) faster
2. You can kill (if you set such a goal) whatever you want
3.Even ours, to our discord.
In 1992, a VAZ 21093, a new one, from the pier, exported to Turkey (in 1993 the valve seat burned out), in 12/1992 by accident in Kiel (what a BMW!) VAZ 21093 (short wing) Lada night, 1991, with 20 tkm. With a fool he called a ridiculous price, a creaking heart was sold, while he was driving to the house, he realized a new one, mine, that at home is COMPLETE. Arrived, immediately sold. I went, others drove, probably still rides.
And even the point is not that everything was Bosch on black (even counters), hp wheels and sunroof, etc.
SIMPLY DEUTSCHE LADA chose (100 identical ones not to be produced) and MADE QUALITATIVE SALE PREPARATION.

And the Finnish Lada Samara from Valmet?

[shuhartred]

Quote: Postman

In a landfill.
- "killer on the road"
polluting our homeland

You tell this to Putin. He generally has a GAZ-21 and "eared constipation"

[postman]

Quote: shuhartred

You tell this to Putin. He generally has a GAZ-21 and "eared constipation

Putin is the main opponent of junk (and the same foreign cars, bushy)
Do not confuse retro and cheap trash.
Note: you can even bring an authentic retro from behind the hill, over the age of 25 years (if I’m not mistaken), RATE of the fee = 0%, WASTE = 0 rubles, an environmental certificate Euro5 is not required.
The truth is not for DOP (we are so)

[shuhartred]

Quote: Postman

Putin is the main opponent of junk (and the same foreign cars, bushy)
Do not confuse retro and cheap trash.

Have you seen the smiley face?

[Fanat1984]

I also have impassability, I’m on the Classic as standard and didn’t go to such gully !!!

[cosmos111]

Quote: Normal

Do you drive a Priora?

Quote: DAGESTANETS333

- domestic iron (

I agree, there will be an acceptable price, they will buy (((

a ride on the "Niva" in 2008, 85 thousand kilometers mileage and not something-hours (((
The main thing is to change good oils and air filters more often !!!

[Normal]

Quote: cosmos111

a ride on the "Niva"

Superbison !!!
A real man! I respect
But I already can’t afford it. Once in his youth, he asked a neighbor to go for a can of gasoline. He was under the shofe and gave the keys to his Niva. I then rode a Ford Escort 83 Guards.
In general, for 15 km of the road to the gas station, I remembered a lot, understood and survived. My conclusion is that Niva is a racing version of the YuMZ-6M tractor (we had one in a school with industrial training). Efforts on the pedals and steering wheel, handling and sound insulation of the fields are clearly related to those of the tractor.
Behind the wheel of a Niva you have to work physically, then she goes. With her, as with a resting horse, one must always demonstrate one’s physical and strong-willed superiority, one must keep oneself tough!
And of course, the bi-shears will not hurt.

[DAGESTAN333]

Hello.
While riding a minibus. But I'm going to get a not-so-used "six". And ideally, yes - I will drive something VAZovsky. The priority is ours, and so that the operating costs are at a minimum.

[Normal]

Quote: DAGESTANETS333

going to get a not very used "six".

BMW? Mazda?

Quote: DAGESTANETS333

I will ride on something VAZ.

VAZ now produces Largus (Renault Logan with a station wagon), Nissan Almeria (Steering wheel, gearshift lever, instrument panel, handles, console, switches, air deflectors - all from Logan) and Datsun "on-Do" (converted Kalina) In principle normal cars, if the assembly does not fail.

Quote: DAGESTANETS333

so that the operating costs would be a minimum.

This is Yes! There are probably no cheaper cars to operate.

[DAGESTAN333]

Quote: Normal

BMW? Mazda?

))) 2106.

Quote: Normal

Largus is now being produced at the VAZ ...

- what is allowed! The main thing that the company would pay taxes to our treasury is what I consider to be ours. Well, of course, it would be better if we could completely buy some kind of cool auto concern and place the main facilities in Russia.

[lpd1]

Still ahead of you, dear!
I think we will also make comfortable jeeps. It is good, of course, that the car is monitored "on line" throughout the entire route, who should know how much fuel I have, where it costs, whether this "lacquer dreadnought" is moving, they see who is driving and what state it is in. However, if you have to get stuck in "shitty mud" will come and pull out the most ordinary "loaf", not "Kruzak".
Good luck to you.

[vitalm]

it's not about the car, the motherland is one for us! If we climbed as a superpower and politics, now we need to get out of our skin, but to prove that we are worth something

[vitalm]

everything is right - I sell computers myself, I want to use them and compare them with foreign ones

[shurup]

Slow horse, but its own. The imported one will die - go to them again, if they sell, and then the one that is worse.
And from his own foals will be.

[cosmos111]

Quote: shurup

Slow horse, but its own. Import will die - and

dual-use imports are already dead, so either China or their own ....

[saag]

will be in the civil service, a person will come for a service, and in response to him - "our computer is frozen, the system does not work" :-)

[Sledgehammer]

The next generation will likely be at 45 nm.
Hope it qualitative leap, not just buildup
number of cores. But still I want to know:
What is the number of transistors in each core.
How much cache and how many levels.
It would be nice to see the tests in the benchmarks, you can immediately use them
approximately estimate productivity percent. What is overclocking
potential, if there is of course and at least an approximate
the cost.

[Ptah]

1. The number of "cores" has almost no effect on many indicators of the percentage. Intel and AMD have different construction concepts. AMD already has 32 cores (64 are being prepared), but it often loses in production. counting the so-called "quick calculations of dynamic graphics" "Intel".
2. Tests in benchmarks. This indicator is subjective. It is considered certain programs.
3. "Overclocking potential" is needed for restless seekers. Increased performance (in comparison with analogs) does not need a "race".
But you are right, there are many questions. Even, at least with what they compared. If with "Ai-three", then it gives way to "five". "Seven" is more pumped, but more expensive by a hundred or one and a half dollars.

[Sledgehammer]

AMD has 32 cores each (64 are being prepared)

No such.

[PSih2097]

Quote: Sledgehammer

What is the number of transistors in each core.
How much cache and how many levels.

Microprocessor Performance
Clock frequency
800 MHz
Number of cores
4
Peak chip performance, Gflops (64 bit, double precision)
25
Peak chip performance, Gflops (32 bits, single precision)
50
Peak performance on mixed computing chips, GIPS (32 bits)
107
Level 1 data cache, per core
64 KB
Cache of instructions of the 1st level, on a kernel
128 KB
Level 2 Cache (Universal)
8 MB
RAM organization
Up to 3 channels DDR3-1600 ECC
RAM channel bandwidth
38.4 GB / s
Ability to combine into a multiprocessor system with coherent shared memory
Up to 4 processors
Interprocessor channels
3, duplex
Bandwidth of each interprocessor channel
12 GB / s
Memory Coherence Transaction Stream Optimization Tools (Snoop Filtering)
There are
I / O Channels / RemoteDMA
1, duplex
I / O Bandwidth / RemoteDMA
4 GB / s
VLSI Compatible Southbridge
KPI
Technological characteristics of the chip
Technological process
65 nm
Crystal size
380 sq. Mm
Number of transistors
986 million
The number of layers of metal
9
Case Type / Number of Pins
HFCBGA/1600
Body dimensions
X x 42.5 42.5 3.2 мм
Core voltage
In 1,1
Peripheral supply voltages
1,5 V, 2,5 V, 3,3 V
Operating temperature range, degrees WITH
-60 ... + 85
Increased limit temperature of the medium, deg. WITH
+125
Maximum / average power dissipation at 800 MHz
60 / 45 W
600 MHz average power dissipation in uniprocessor mode with 0,9 V core supply voltage
22 W
Energy saving technology
there is

[Sledgehammer]

Thanks for the info.

600 MHz average power dissipation in a single processor
mode at core supply voltage 0,9 V - 22 W

So the real dissipated somewhere is 80-90 watts. Normal for 65 nm percent.

[Metal]

Catch up and overtake iOS! And then we'll see how they will compete with us

[RPG_]

Very interesting. Of course, I would like to see the tests of this processor in real applications, synthetics and games, but this is only a dream. If it is equal in performance to at least Phenom 2 at the same frequencies, I will take off my hat and bow low. With the special desire of the developers, this miracle can even eat it.

[pensioner]

Among the most famous developments of the institute are domestic supercomputers BESM, Elbrus-1KB

I remember, I remember these cars. We stood in the URO RAS.

[Alexey N]

I really want to work on a domestic computer. Click our mouse, hammer on our keyboard, look at the Russian monitor in which the domestic operating system "rules". Well, the system unit packed with the latest Russian hardware is of itself.
Oh dreams ...

[PSih2097]

Almost domestic ...

KM4-Elbrus is intended for the organization of personal workstations, workstation operators, information terminals in systems with increased requirements for information security. KM4-Elbrus has an attractive appearance, ergonomic design, the presence of a touch screen. KM4-Elbrus uses the Monocub motherboard, based on the Elbrus-2C + microprocessor.

KM4-Elbrus is ergonomic, compact, has a low noise level. The built-in monitor with a size of 20 inches is equipped with a touch screen with a resolution of 2048 x 2048. On the front panel of the candy bar is a touch power button, a WEB camera with a resolution of 1,3 megapixels, as well as a contactless RFID card reader. A built-in card reader for 7 types of smart cards is located on the side panel, there are also USB 2.0 connectors. The WiFi antenna is located on the rear panel and the expansion connectors are removed from the motherboard (Gigabit Ethernet, USB 2.0, RS-232). The monoblock is equipped with an integrated audio system. Inside the case there is a PCI-Express x16 slot (8 lines are used), which allows you to install low-profile expansion cards.

The base operating system for KM4-Elbrus is the Elbrus OS. It is built on the basis of the Linux kernel and supports many open source applications, including the AbiWord editor, the GNumeric spreadsheet, the Firefox browser, and the email client. There are tools for developing application software, tests for self-diagnosis of equipment.

The KM4-Elbrus monoblock allows you to run not only the Elbrus OS, but also other operating systems designed to run on the 32-bit Intel x86 platform, primarily Windows XP and various Linux / x86 variants, including the MSVS OS. This feature is provided by the binary translation software and hardware system. To store the files of the binary translator and its service information, a CompactFlash card is used, which is installed on the back of the motherboard.

[fzr1000]

The simplest options for civilian PCs, such as "Elbrus" look like this.

Inside the standard motherboard, familiar sizes. The only thing Russian processors do not need water and conventional cooling, you will not see fans on the processors. Inside is this:

[fzr1000]

For comparison, the laptop on the left is in a protective version from ZAO “MTsST”, and to the right of Panasonic.

[abuyanovus]

Of course, I could be wrong, but all of these I3-I7, very much do not reach the class SPASE or military, But Elbrus-4C seems to be pulling And for the effective work of such a pro - for the eyes. And they also developed a lot of processor structure with it ... here you have the power for artificial intelligence, domestic. For the same Su-35s and T-50, albeit with some variations. By the way, the same companies in the military sphere use processors with the same or even lower clock frequency, this is a fact. Another thing is that they have been in service for seven years already ... But we also have the early Elbruses in service.
And with production and facilities, this will be the trouble until our developers try to enter the PC and gaming computer markets. The warrior's power is not as important as reliability, but the players are quite the opposite.
I don’t know how the others are, but personally I am definitely happy. And at the first opportunity I will get myself a laptop with such a stone, at least from patriotic considerations.

[saag]

Well, why do you need a laptop with such power consumption and heat dissipation? And how is Elbrus made by 10 years of technology for civilians pulling into space?

[abuyanovus]

What energy consumption and emissions? I have already encountered such procs, though the previous generation. There is NO fan or dropsy, they hardly get warm That's the problem. The old percent (the previous generation) did not suit me for a whole series of tasks .. But this one, if it really pulls 50 gigaflops, is no worse than i3, plus my money will go to a Russian company, and not to an overseas one. And now for me personally, I don’t know how for you it is very important.
About space ... Do you really think that its capabilities are not enough? I assure you, enough is enough. Moreover, it will be clearly not a civilian version.

[saag]

Quote: abuyanovus

Do you really think that his capabilities are not enough?

It’s enough opportunities, the evolution of the spacecraft and on a modern smartphone can be calculated, the requirements for computers for space reliability, radiation stability, vibration, heating

[fzr1000]

Russian new processors, such as six nuclear processor Elbrus-2C + with a clock frequency of 500 MHz and four nuclear processors MTsST-4R with a clock frequency of 1000 MHz, do not need such cooling.
Moreover, Russian manufacturers of processors and computers of the same name like Elbrus are developing not only multi-core processors, but also multi-processor ones. In the photo below you can see the motherboard immediately with four domestic processors.

[abuyanovus]

It remains only to find out where all this can be purchased. By the way, I haven’t tried as much as I didn’t even find the KM4-Elbrus monoblock in free sale, I’m not talking about anything else. Sorry...
And the board is strong. It’s interesting if on this base the computer for Windows is assembled, how it will pull games and whether it is possible to put a modern video card on it Now, if so, then you can enter the market.

[Sochi]

These are the results of the slogans: cybernetics is the corrupt girl of imperialism ... now we are catching up.

[brn521]

On the one hand, it’s good that there is. On the other hand, in order for such products to have an acceptable price, half of the world needs to sell them. The principle is simple, the higher the volume, the lower the cost. Because of this, I assume that these processors are unlikely to appear in retail due to complete lack of competitiveness. Unless the West manages to arrange for us a complete trade embargo.

[Cnukep]

The OS based on Debian 5, and the Linux kernel version 2.6.33 is a bit old, of course, but the news is definitely a plus! In general, it is high time to develop our own national operating system, with a massive introduction to government agencies. For so many years we have been feeding foreign corporations to which we have never been friendly !!! Although there are domestic distributors of AltLinux, ROSA and Calculate, there should be a state program for support and development!

[Everest2014]

Well, I heard about Elbrus back in the 2000s, and as our teacher gently hinted, the financing of this project was forcibly stopped by Western people. Of course, it is gratifying to hear that it is developing, but obviously the military specifics of the stone will not allow it to really compete with other manufacturers of cpu. Sorry, I would feel.

[victorTT]

Mstst Intel bought in 2004. so I advise everyone to buy AMD AMD cards and Radeon video cards so that Intel does not become a monopolist in processor engineering. amd is already breathing. buy AMD processes, even if they are weaker than Intel's. but cheaper.

[Sledgehammer]

amd is already breathing. buy AMD processes, even if they are weaker than Intel's. but cheaper.

Amd spud both prefixes hbox and pc 4, its percent. the best (cost-price) in real multithreaded software (games). AMD leader in hybrid percent. for mobile.market is
importantly, intel only catches up, albeit rather quickly.
So Amd is on horseback now.

[Astartes]

Military use is certainly good, but Intel is developing at the expense of the civilian sector.

[goose]

Quote: Letun

The truth about the price of the new processor and the possible volume of release in the article is delicately silent.

The price depends on the shaft quantity. Until Intel took over the whole world, the price of processors and PCs was several times higher.
A processor manufactured by millions will be cheaper than a skirting board. This is the law of the market

[virm]

In Russia, a fairly large number of industrial controllers are produced. In which ultra-high performance is not required. They could use a domestic processor. Let it be a little more expensive but, nevertheless, yours.

[postman]

Octa-core Elbrus on the way

[saag]

Interesting mobile Elbrus MTsST does not develop, the topic is interesting

[Mature Hrych]

Who tried to disperse the stone?))) And the tests in 3Dmark show ...

[Prutkov]

Quote: fzr1000

Intel owns a stake in ICSTC. Then draw your own conclusions.

Actually, this is the answer about the possibility of imposing sanctions. Does Intel need it?

[zollstab]

In the V.P.K. I’ll just give you my own example: our new armored vehicles have diesel iveco, and practice has shown that they lack traction at low speeds, which is unusual for our classic diesels. Yes, and they are more expensive to maintain. The conclusions are clear.

[ALEXXX1983]

Quote: saag

The most modern Intel i3 and Intel i5 processors, built on the Ivy Bridge architecture, are produced using the 22 nm process technology

Since last summer, I have the next generation (Haswell i7 4770k) - though at the same technological process

[comrade Bitch]

deja vu ... I already heard about a domestic mobile phone once

[BlackJack]

That pleased !!! Thank!
Beat the imperialists with their own weapons

[w2000]

And what about the domestic motherboards and hard drives? Indeed, from a security point of view, these components are no less important than the CPU.

[mirexes]

This is very good news that we are trying to do such things, but about the backlog, I remember when we launched a blizzard without a pilot and planted it without a pilot then it was said that the West could also do it only after 8 years, but it really turned out that they could only after 20 years But at the time of the start of the snowstorm everyone said that we in electronics are 5-10 years behind the West, it’s just that this situation suggests all sorts of things, since the advanced West couldn’t do the same and the backward USSR could !!!!!!! about the fact that the office program is slowing down on our processor, then let's recall office 2003 and the current office, how do they differ in functionality !? I personally see that the interface has just changed and the current office began to slow down a lot on the i7 process, and after all, the size of the office 2010 compared to 2003 increased almost 2 times, it turns out that the whole improvement went to design, so if you optimize the program on the irbis too everything will fly

[Tatar 174]

And whoever doubts that in Russia our scientists and engineers can do almost anything, he simply does not know much. Learn the history of science. The whole problem with us is the lack of sufficient support from talented scientists and engineers, many have left the country in the previous 100 years, mainly because of this. It is necessary to return them and attract smart heads from other countries, what is the problem?

[shelva]

The main thing is to continue to work in this direction. Independence from imports in this area directly relates to state security. Development here will entail the general development of industry.

[yulka2980]

We lag behind by 8-10 years ... I’m thinking, if the Chinese have learned to do it, then why are we so lagging behind! Nevertheless, I’m sure that the Russians are one of the smartest and most gifted people in the world, apparently there is simply not enough financial support.

[abc_alex]

And at the start, the Chinese were actually presented with the most powerful production facilities. Ready-made factories from Europe and the USA were taken there, working according to modern technology. processes. Therefore, they "can". In relation to Russia, there are still open and unspoken restrictions on the export of high-tech equipment. So, as it was rightly noted above, until we learn how to make our own equipment - we will lag behind or just lag behind.

And on the other hand, what the hell is it for - catching up with Intel and AMD? Elbrus on the native code is quite competitive and sufficient for machine tools, aircraft and tanks. :)

[Myka]

I think just bureaucracy strangles

[Fanat1984]

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/referendum-hawaii/PSVLwTrm

[Peacemaker]

Elbrus is an interesting machine. P. to. Takes up little space, does not make noise and does not get warm with a touch screen, lack of sys. block and heaps of wires ... If you make it powerful and massive buyers there are! Many are already tired of getting confused in wires, racking their brains with placing a giant Chumadan hot as a stove and screeching as a fighter ...

[Myka]

I would buy, for testing =)
finally started what more worth doing, Graz guys

[Papabear]

I'm glad for 64-bit Elbrus. Several years ago, the execution of x86 commands was in emulation mode, and the processor itself was at the 80486 level in performance. Despite the fact that there is support for windows, this processor was not focused on it. As the saying goes, "we installed windows, rolled up net.framework and slowed down intel i7". And all this without hardware bookmarks

[Nross]

Teraflop was relevant 10 years ago! And 10 years ago Elbrus was closer to Intel by 5-6 years than now.
Today's industry demand - from atomic to genetics - is petaflops.
As I understand it, effective Moscow management got there too ....

[Patricklymn]

MigCredit Company guarantees lending services to the Residents of Moscow Region without collateral and guarantors
https://vk.com/club40524903