Military Review

The nuances of the final "battle" domestic commanders

127
At midnight from April 20 to 21, a multi-stage voting in the “Name of Victory” contest, organized by the VGTRK media holding and the Russian militaryhistorical society. The authors of the idea suggested that Internet users, on a site specially created for the project, leave their vote to determine the most outstanding commanders of different historical eras. Not everyone accepted the idea of ​​VGTRK and RVIO with unambiguous support, especially after very scandalous contests with a similar electoral system in past years, but user interest was, admittedly, considerable.


The nuances of the final "battle" domestic commanders


During the competition (and the 4 competition started last November), more than 4,5 millions of users took part in the voting. Using Internet terminology, these users can hardly be called unique, since the same user had the opportunity to vote repeatedly (no more than once a day from the same IP). The main difference from the previous variations of such contests (“Name of Russia” and “Russia of 10”) is that this time the organizers decided to abandon SMS voting and the involvement of so-called expert groups (they decided to refuse, at least officially).

The completed 6 stage of the competition determined the top ten "finalists" who would win the competition among themselves and "play out" by continuing the vote. The last prefinal stage ranked the top ten generals as follows:

10 place - Michael Skobelev;
9 place - Alexey Ermolov;
8 place - Dmitry Donskoy;
7 place - Pavel Nakhimov;
6 place - Konstantin Rokossovsky;
5 place - Fedor Ushakov;
4 place - Mikhail Kutuzov;
3 place - Alexander Nevsky;
2 place - George Zhukov;
1 place - Alexander Suvorov.


Suvorov leads by a large margin from the rest of the generals, who by the 6 stage remained "in the cage" of the competition.
Now, this top ten is also awaited by two final stages, during which the administrators of the site where the vote is going are going to hide the preliminary results without telling the place of this or that “applicant” for the title “Victory Name” in the former public access mode. In the first stage of the final round to get information about what percentage of users voted for one or another commander, you need to look in the “Personalia” section, where you can also find brief references to each of the generals represented in the final.

The winner of the project will be named 9 in May 2014 of the year, and there is every reason to believe that without any perturbations of the contest organizers or user tricks, one of those commanders who, according to the results of the 6 tour, got into the top three, will be declared the winner: Alexander Suvorov , George Zhukov and Alexander Nevsky. At the same time, there is an opinion that Alexander Nevsky is unlikely to be a winner, since he already has a “title” that the organizers of a similar project “Name of Russia” gave him several years ago (many still remember how much noise this project made). If Alexander Yaroslavich himself would know what undercover games would manifest themselves during that competition, then he would definitely arrange the “Ice Battle” to the organizers ...

The goal of the project, as its organizers say, is to identify the commander who made the greatest contribution to the military history of Russia. The goal seems to be good, because it certainly concerns the popularization of the military history of Russia, the study of the exploits of the heroes of the past and present, attracts the attention of the younger generation. But this time some oddities are manifested - they concern not so much the contest itself, but one of the organizers.

Wanting to get acquainted with other projects of the Russian Military Historical Society (and a lot of projects worthy of RVIO is a fact), you come across the RVIO Vkontakte page, where the link to the film “1941: Forbidden Truth” is a modern Ukrainian series about prewar time and the first days and months of war with an active discussion of this film.

I do not want to go into the details of the picture, in order not to make it a kind of advertising, but the film itself, and the fact that he was given a special place on the page of RVIO - the phenomenon of “outstanding”. If the Ukrainian “documentalists” stubbornly insist that the Soviet Union was still planning to seize Europe in the 30s, trying to get ahead of fascist Germany, then this is of course their “ukrodokumentumentalistov” - a matter (modern Ukraine should itself cure itself) But attempts to discuss this “documentary creation” at the venue of the esteemed RWIO (even if on the social network) are, to put it mildly, strange. Somehow they are not very well connected with the declared goals of the “Name of Victory” competition held under the auspices of the Russian Military Historical Society. The diversity of views is a wonderful thing, but there are still questions where such diversity can lead to a sad result: on the one hand, it is proposed to vote for the commander-in-arms, on the other hand, materials are presented where some of the commander-in-arms are from a light third-party " experts "suddenly become executioners and almost war criminals ...
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  1. Same lech
    Same lech April 22 2014 07: 34
    +31
    I have always been and remain an admirer of ALEXANDER SUVOROV .... the only commander whose authority cannot be questioned.
    In general, our commanders are strong in that they pulled RUSSIA out of the most difficult and hopeless situation .... probably this is in the genes of our people.
    1. Riperbahn
      Riperbahn April 22 2014 07: 41
      .
      Suvorov is the greatest commander! But why Zhukov put in the rating ?!
      1. predator.3
        predator.3 April 22 2014 07: 58
        +5
        Quote: Riperbahn
        Suvorov is the greatest commander! But why Zhukov put in the rating ?!

        And who in the 41st defended Leningrad and Moscow? hi
        1. Igor39
          Igor39 April 22 2014 08: 04
          +6
          But what about Shaposhnikov, Konev, Eremenko, Panfilov?
          1. Docent1984
            Docent1984 April 22 2014 09: 24
            +7
            Well, about Konev, you are in vain ... The commander is mediocre, but as a person - just shit. Zhukov saved him from certain execution after the collapse of the Western Front, and he was in the forefront among those who scribbled denunciations and censures on Zhukov after the war. Such is the gratitude. And Boris Mikhailovich was also represented in the poll, they could vote for him. And Eremenko too. There it was generally suggested to choose 5 names for each. In my opinion, the idea of ​​a competition is not a bad one, because it can allow, if desired, both training programs and military programs in the direction of covering the activities of undeservedly "forgotten" heroes. I tried to ask young people about certain prominent figures - they know very little. Yes, everyone knows Suvorov and Kutuzov. But I ask you to tell about Rokossovsky, Nakhimov, Skobelev, Ermolov - the names are known, but no more. Very poorly informed. This is where the results of such competitions could be applied.
            1. dkflbvbh
              dkflbvbh April 22 2014 12: 29
              +8
              But Zhukov is soft and fluffy. My father told me that sending him a battalion for reconnaissance in battle was just a spit (to see where the Germans had firing points), his soldiers did not like, and the post-war Soviet propaganda exalted it. What can I say about my favorite phrase - Russia will still build up big women - like that. And he would be offended at the place of Suvorov, as a commander, that they put him on a par with him.
              1. qwert
                qwert April 22 2014 14: 23
                +5
                To the point ... And his phrase was copied to Stalin. Rokossovsky was really talented and at the same time decent commander who also took care of the soldiers in that war. But, alas, he did not engage in self-PR
              2. goose
                goose April 22 2014 14: 37
                +6
                About women is not his phrase. And you should read about the people, how he blasted the colonel, who sent people into the attack head-on. Zhukov harshly asked the commanders, provoking them to such "primitive" decisions, and they "tried" - to think - there was no time. And then their party organs excused them.
                And also read about how the blockade around Leningrad was formed due to the vegetable Zhdanov, a little bit did not have time for Zhukov to prevent the blockade. But the city saved from immediate capture.
                Also about Vatutin, Eremenko, Tymoshenko all sorts of tales are bad, and my grandfather personally saw them. Kozlov on the ground, without education, was enough after cleaning the command personnel, it was really impossible to find a competent commander. Only 1 division out of more than a hundred could do without gross mistakes in planning operations in the first months of the war - this says something.
                Read Zhukov’s memoirs, they don’t lie there, I read ...
              3. The comment was deleted.
              4. Chuykov
                Chuykov April 22 2014 18: 49
                +2
                Dear, weren't the soldiers themselves saying, where is Zhukov Victory there?
                And it’s not up to us to judge him for his stiffness (not to be confused with cruelty), he himself went all the way through thorny from an ordinary to a marshal, and I don’t think that he deliberately sent the soldiers to death, they say that it’s not a pity. including Rokosovsky himself).
                1. andko5
                  andko5 April 23 2014 09: 05
                  +2
                  Of course, Zhukov is an outstanding commander. To pity or not to pity the soldiers is not the question. The meaning of the death of masses of soldiers is victory. There is no concept "at any cost", there is simply - victory. But Zhukov also has big military leadership mistakes. You cannot blame indiscriminately for this, there were both objective and subjective reasons. For example, the defeat in the Rzhev confrontation, in which Zhukov is clearly guilty, and, as a result, the death of over 2 million people (more than in the Battle of Stalingrad).
                  And where is the name of Stalin? In general, one cannot be silent about his greatest role both as a commander and, at the same time, as the leader of the whole country, and, if you like, a truly national leader. You can argue, but the truth does not change.
              5. Snoop
                Snoop April 23 2014 05: 30
                +1
                Reconnaissance in battle is the normal type of battle. It was used by everyone, the Germans, us, the Anglo-Saxons. Or do you think it is better to put the entire division in front of the pillboxes and bunkers?
            2. Fedya
              Fedya April 22 2014 20: 30
              +1
              Gorbatov and Chernyakhovsky forgot to mention!
          2. Hleb
            Hleb April 22 2014 09: 32
            +5
            ______________
            1. moremansf
              moremansf April 22 2014 14: 43
              +11
              Navy Commander-in-Chief Admiral of the Fleet Nikolai Gerasimovich Kuznetsov - I voted for him ... it is a pity that our contemporaries know so little about him ... thanks to his courage and foresight, the fleet did not suffer losses in the first days of the war, unlike other types of the Armed Forces. ..regardless of the Kremlin’s instructions, he, at his own peril and risk, declared the alert on the fleets, which allowed the fleet to remain combat-ready ...
              1. Pilat2009
                Pilat2009 April 22 2014 16: 48
                +3
                Quote: moremansf
                at his own peril and risk he declared a combat alert on the fleets,

                I will not be clever, but the order to bring the units into combat readiness was sent to everyone.
                1. Fedya
                  Fedya April 22 2014 20: 31
                  +1
                  But the Baltic Fleet was the most alert!
                  1. Pilat2009
                    Pilat2009 April 23 2014 18: 15
                    0
                    Quote: Fedya
                    But the Baltic Fleet was the most alert!

                    But did they organize a mass raid on him or strike a torpedo like in Port Arthur? Did the Germans just put mines and solve their problems with little effort
                    Quote: Snoop
                    The Baltic Military District began activities to bring it on full alert from June 18, the Kiev Military District Command, the Odessa Military District as well

                    You know, when the commander of an air regiment appears at 10 o’clock, you can safely say that it was his fault in the unpreparedness and not Stalin at all. This is just an ordinary Russian sloppiness
                2. andko5
                  andko5 April 23 2014 09: 21
                  +1
                  An hour before the start of the war ...
                  More precisely, around midnight, but received at the district headquarters in an hour, and didn’t even get to the units and formations
              2. Snoop
                Snoop April 23 2014 05: 28
                0
                Again at your own risk and fear)))) Read at least the memoirs of Kuznetsov himself)))
                And on the other hand, the Baltic Military District began activities to bring it into full combat readiness on June 18, the Kiev Military District Military District, and the Odessa Military District as well. Is everything contrary?)))) Only Pavlov turned out to be a faithful satrap of Stalin?)))
            2. Kapdva
              Kapdva April 22 2014 15: 30
              +3
              But N.G. Kuznetsov was not included! Very worthy admiral! I think that they didn’t turn it on, because all the same in the MAJOR, they won on land. But nevertheless, for all sailors - an example of an Officer and a Man !!! He saved my grandfather, a submariner, who was held captive after the death of the boat for 2 hours (the German SKA was picked up, and then our planes sunk them, and again our MO boats picked them up together with the Germans) saved from repression.
          3. Predator
            Predator April 22 2014 09: 38
            +3
            Well, guys! Don't compare like that! Shaposhnikov was the chief of the general staff (about ... the preparation of the German offensive against Moscow), Konev at that time was the front commander (thanks for the defeat at Vyazma), Panfilov was the division commander ..... from him and there is nothing to ask! I forgot about Eremenko! ... "I will certainly smash the scoundrel Guderian ..." As a result, the defeat of the south-western front.
            1. creak
              creak April 22 2014 10: 21
              +3
              As for Eremenko, it’s true, but with one clarification - he commanded the Bryansk Front, and not the South-West ... The South-West was commanded by Kyroponos, who ruined both the front and finally himself (the boiler in the Romny region, Lokhvitsa - Left-Bank Ukraine) .. .
          4. predator.3
            predator.3 April 22 2014 19: 51
            0
            Shaposhnikov — the chief of the General Staff, Konev — the deputy commander of the Western Front, then commanded the Kalinin Front, Eremenko, the commander of the Bryansk Front, through which Guderian went to the rear of the U.Z. Front and surrounded Panfilov in general.
          5. Revolver
            Revolver April 22 2014 21: 23
            +1
            Quote: Igor39
            But what about Shaposhnikov, Konev, Eremenko, Panfilov?

            One can argue about their successes and / or failures. But the competition itself, in my opinion, is not worth a penny, because the organizers initially and intentionally did not include the Supreme Commander-in-Chief Generalissimo Stalin in the voting lists. It is understandable why - Stalin would inevitably have won with a huge margin, and this was considered politically incorrect.
        2. slava_sherb
          slava_sherb April 22 2014 08: 41
          .
          Well, not Zhukov, he would have been given free rein, he would have put everyone
          1. Predator
            Predator April 22 2014 09: 53
            +12
            Stop carrying nonsense! The commander is in charge of strategy! The commander of a platoon, company, battalion for personnel! Why did Zhukov personally drive soldiers to machine guns ?! "I demand that commanders of all levels not storm strongpoints, but bypass them!"
            1. dkflbvbh
              dkflbvbh April 22 2014 12: 31
              .
              He drove and not only fighters ...
          2. GRune
            GRune April 22 2014 10: 33
            +12
            Grandfather told very simple soldiers did not like when Zhukov commanded the operation ...
            1. dkflbvbh
              dkflbvbh April 22 2014 12: 32
              +9
              So my dad didn’t lie. But Rokosovsky’s soldiers hugged.
            2. wax
              wax April 22 2014 12: 53
              -1
              This grandfather was in a deep minority, however.
            3. goose
              goose April 22 2014 14: 40
              +2
              This is true, because before the offensive operation, he exhausted them with disguise, kept them without hot food, without baths, and made them carry shells from the rear. But without this there was no way.
            4. The comment was deleted.
        3. Predator
          Predator April 22 2014 09: 32
          0
          Our soldiers!
        4. GRune
          GRune April 22 2014 10: 26
          0
          The soldiers and people of a great country have defended!
          1. vladimirZ
            vladimirZ April 22 2014 10: 59
            +3
            The soldiers and people of a great country have defended!



            To this argument, I always quote the parable:
            "Who will triumph over a flock of rams headed by a lion or a group of lions headed by a ram?"
            The role of the Chief Military Leader, commander, during the war years, is one of the main components of the Victory!
            Without a leader, commander, a people is an uncontrollable crowd, unable to solve even simple questions.
        5. qwert
          qwert April 22 2014 14: 20
          +4
          Oddly enough, but in the 1941-th Leningrad Voroshilov defended. Which was removed from there primarily because of the disease. In addition, the arrival of Zhukov on the Leningrad front coincided with the transfer of part of the German troops to another front, as a result of which the intensity of the German military operations significantly decreased.
          Although I do not argue, if you read Zhukov’s memoirs, the war was won precisely because of his genius, and despite the mediocrity of all other commanders, including Rokossovsky. I emphasize - according to Zhukov’s memoirs
          1. goose
            goose April 22 2014 14: 43
            0
            Let me ask you more about the role of Voroshilov in the defense of Leningrad? On the three-volume volume about the blockade, he practically did not participate in any way and made no decisions. The main figure was Zhdanov, who had all the full power in this region.
      2. vladimirZ
        vladimirZ April 22 2014 08: 01
        +52
        The Best General of Russia Generalissimo Stalin Joseph Vissarionovich! The contest organizers did not turn it on for fear of a clear victory in this contest.
        1. Ivan Petrovich
          Ivan Petrovich April 22 2014 08: 18
          +26
          and in general this competition is complete stupidity. And why then not make a rating of soldiers, colonels and so on. and "compare" the soldiers of which era were more "heroic" or whose feat is more heroic
          1. ArhipenkoAndrey
            ArhipenkoAndrey April 22 2014 11: 52
            +8
            Competition in the spirit of the American socialist competition is utter nonsense.
          2. andko5
            andko5 April 23 2014 09: 13
            0
            I agree with you on all 100!
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. Aryan
          Aryan April 22 2014 08: 29
          +38
          I don’t like the idea of ​​the contest
          some hit parade of the Saviors of the Fatherland in the spirit of Pendozovsky imtivi "and closes the top five ...."
          what? there is no other way to convey to young people who Rokossovsky is?
          "and this is the guy in the sixth place? and nuka, what did he do for hip-hop?"

          some thermometer of service to the Fatherland

          All our great commanders deserve a blessed memory
          I can’t understand a little more or a little less to save my homeland ...
          1. sledge
            sledge April 22 2014 09: 50
            +8
            I agree. The idea itself is somehow not ethical. All commanders contributed to the glorification of Russian weapons. All heroes deserve Eternal memory.
            1. Predator
              Predator April 22 2014 10: 04
              +2
              War is won by soldiers! And about ... t of politics!
          2. andko5
            andko5 April 23 2014 09: 14
            -1
            To the Point!
        4. Predator
          Predator April 22 2014 09: 44
          0
          But this is true! Well done! Only for!
        5. wax
          wax April 22 2014 13: 07
          +6
          Right! But, perhaps, it is fair, for there is no one to compare it with: it is too big. While the commanders led the battle into battle, and they decided the fate of the war - the greatest Russian commanders: Suvorov - on land, Ushakov - at sea. But in the 20th century, not the regiments, but the armies on huge fronts decided the fate of the war. All of these projects are children's games that distract from the essence of the issues.
        6. RUSS
          RUSS April 22 2014 15: 05
          +1
          Quote: vladimirZ
          The Best General of Russia Generalissimo Stalin Joseph Vissarionovich!


          Stalin is "not a convenient historical figure" for today's political elite, the new government quietly pushes him, not like in the 80s and 90s when all the dogs were hanged on him, today they simply try not to mention Stalin once again, and if they do remember then it is very politically correct that it would not be inadvertent to offend anyone, as positively and negatively, Stalin's activities are now estimated by the population of Russia approximately 50/50.
        7. alikalik
          alikalik April 22 2014 16: 27
          +3
          This is for sure. IVS without any polls was out of competition. A few years ago he was already in the lead in the competition. Yes, the organizers apparently fell out of fry. As well as ITTs, all mass media are poured with dirt, and it’s like it has risen from the ashes. .And the current competition was chosen so-so by heroes whose fame was two centuries ago. Only historians remember them and not all of them. Which of these commanders simultaneously led the Great Country and at the same time the Armed Forces of the Red Army. None.
          1. andko5
            andko5 April 23 2014 09: 15
            0
            I fully support
        8. Ulairy
          Ulairy April 23 2014 05: 26
          +2
          Quote: vladimirZ
          afraid of his clear victory in this competition

          Ooh, Stalin is our official "antichrist", after the XX Congress of the CPSU, they are afraid to mention him in vain (and by nightfall) - suddenly he will return with the forces of darkness and how can we rule ... After all, the world will not love us again! laughing laughing
          Seriously, what is "competition" about? Suvorov cooler than Zhukov? Is Nevsky a more significant commander than Ermolov? Yes, they acted in different realities of the world situation and everyone had methods corresponding to the realities! "Boo-boo-boo Zhukov is bad! Suvorov is good!" Rave. All the generals served the Motherland, they all expelled evil spirits from their land and did it. They all come first (in different centuries and years).
          Still, the competition was held: "whose invasion of Russia was the best", figures ...
        9. andko5
          andko5 April 23 2014 09: 12
          0
          This is the case!
      3. Bi_Murza
        Bi_Murza April 22 2014 09: 32
        0
        Oh, you riperbachen G, K, Zhukov to belittle who gave you the right? Cossack, you mishandled
        1. Riperbahn
          Riperbahn April 23 2014 06: 58
          0
          This is you, Bi_murza, Cossack. Yes, not mishandled, but deep. Learn before you minus, first write without errors. And then think with your head. I said my opinion. And who gave you the right to fuck my nickname?
      4. Igor80
        Igor80 April 22 2014 10: 50
        +3
        It's strange to find such nonsense here! Although personally I would have voted for Stalin !!! Is it outrageous that he was not included in the lists, or is it the machinations of the "fifth column"?
      5. ArhipenkoAndrey
        ArhipenkoAndrey April 22 2014 11: 51
        0
        But Zhukov is also our story, our victories and defeats, as well as all the names and millions more unknown names of heroes are OUR ancestors, our pride and I don’t understand what places or names of Russia can be talked about, time and land gave birth to the necessary people at this time they saved their people and their land, and without each of them everything could have been completely different and instead of choosing a name, we should talk about all our commanders and constantly on all channels, generations change, we must stop being Ivanes who do not remember kinship, Outskirts example.
      6. Tor hummer
        Tor hummer April 22 2014 12: 48
        .
        Quote: Riperbahn
        Suvorov is the greatest commander! But why Zhukov put in the rating ?!

        All "commanders" of the Soviet period should be excluded from the list. They are nothing at all.
    2. Predator
      Predator April 22 2014 09: 32
      -5
      And when the Pugachevites slowed down Suvorov, why did he refuse Catherine ?!
      1. Starshina wmf
        Starshina wmf April 22 2014 10: 16
        +7
        Suvorov did not have time to go to the rebellious areas, the rebellion was crushed.
      2. Turkir
        Turkir April 22 2014 23: 34
        0
        You seem to want to say something?
        I understood that, but that's what it is, no.
        I can put only minuses to the slanderer. I don’t put it to you.
        But reading you is simply ridiculous: you write in a language that you yourself have invented and which no one understands besides you.
        Funny and sad.
    3. unclevad
      unclevad April 22 2014 11: 06
      +11
      This whole competition is nonsense! There is no BEST commander. There are GREAT generals. They fought and defended our country throughout its history. And throughout history, each of them has contributed to military science. Each subsequent GREAT commander studied with his predecessors. How can they be put in one row and measured? They are all GREAT and fought in specific historical, political, climatic, geographical, technical, etc., and so on. conditions.
      On what, excuse me, scale to measure sailors and army? Some kind of Anglo-Saxon approach. Check the box who is cooler: Betman or Spider-Man! Of course Spider-Man, his face is all closed and sticky crap comes out from everywhere! A SHAME!
      ANY CRAWLER ANYTHING WITHOUT SIMPLE SOLDIERS AND ALL GENIUS COLUMNERS WOULD BE ANYTHING WITHOUT AN ARMY, WHO BELIEVES THEM AND WILL GO FOR THEM FOR THE VICTORY FOR HIS MOTHERLAND!
      Such a huge number of GREAT commanders only in Russia, because our spirit and living conditions put forward good, excellent and GREAT commanders, especially in the most difficult periods of our history.
      Do not measure them on anyone cooler.
      Best of all - RUSSIAN SOLDIER!
      And let the Americans put a tick ...
    4. xan
      xan April 22 2014 12: 22
      +3
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      I have always been and remain an admirer of ALEXANDER SUVOROV .... the only commander whose authority cannot be questioned.

      Right! His authority among subordinates is striking - they could not even imagine that they could lose.
    5. Sasha 19871987
      Sasha 19871987 April 22 2014 12: 38
      +6
      SUVOROV !!!! He did not lose a single battle, of which he had under a hundred !!! nothing to add ...
  2. Sergg
    Sergg April 22 2014 07: 36
    +4
    5 place - Fedor Ushakov;
    4 place - Mikhail Kutuzov;
    3 place - Alexander Nevsky;
    2 place - George Zhukov;
    1 place - Alexander Suvorov.


    I completely agree that these generals are leading!

    It would be better here to change the emphasis, say, at least three of the best generals, it is impossible to single out one, since each of these commanders is GREAT.
    1. Deniska999
      Deniska999 April 22 2014 09: 29
      +2
      And where is the Generalissimo of the Soviet Union I.V. Stalin?!?
      1. GRune
        GRune April 22 2014 10: 35
        +1
        Generals, not commanders ...
        1. tchack
          tchack April 22 2014 11: 01
          0
          What compared with what ??? The commander-in-chief is the authority, and the commander is a general concept for military commanders.
      2. Tor hummer
        Tor hummer April 22 2014 12: 53
        .
        Quote: Deniska999
        And where is the Generalissimo of the Soviet Union I.V. Stalin?!?

        Where he should be - at the junkyard of history, together with the Soviet Union.
        1. sergei- morjak
          sergei- morjak April 28 2014 14: 14
          0
          You wouldn’t touch Joseph Vissarionovich. Yes, and the Soviet Union OFFICIALLY no one has yet dissolved.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. goose
      goose April 22 2014 14: 45
      +1
      I would put Kutuzov in front of Nevsky. And they forgot Vasilevsky - the main brain of the Bet.
    4. The comment was deleted.
    5. Turkir
      Turkir April 22 2014 18: 42
      +1
      Of these five, or dozens, or ... - only Suvorov and Ushakov did not lose a single battle.
      The third on the list, I would put FRUNZE.
    6. denis02135
      denis02135 April 22 2014 23: 32
      +1
      All have disadvantages:
      Kutuzov surrendered Moscow
      Zhukov did not take Sychevka operation Mars
      Nevsky was an ally of the Golden Horde

      Suvorov may be the only one who deserves to be the winner of the survey
      Ushakov may be, but what about Nakhimov, Kornilov, Rokosovsky, Vatutin, Antonov (beginning of the General Staff) Vasilevsky, Brusilov,
      1. Turkir
        Turkir April 27 2014 22: 36
        0
        Nevsky was an ally of the Golden Horde

        This is not a “flaw,” but a clever policy that has infuriated the West.
  3. vladimirZ
    vladimirZ April 22 2014 07: 41
    +22
    Fundamentally I do not participate in the competition "The Best Commander of All Time", because the organizers of the competition tendentiously did not include in it really the Best Commander of the Russian Land, Generalissimo Stalin Joseph Vissarionovich - the organizer, inspirer and leader of the Victory of the Russian people in World War II.
    Without the Generalissimo Stalin I.V. there would be no victory for the Russian people.
    The Russian people are all the peoples of Russia, the USSR, who fought and defended their great homeland - Russia.
    1. Oleg14774
      Oleg14774 April 22 2014 07: 57
      +9
      Quote: vladimirZ
      The Best General of the Earth of the Russian Generalissimo Stalin Joseph Vissarionovich - the organizer, inspirer and leader of the Victory of the Russian people in the Second World War. Without the Generalissimo Stalin I.V. there would be no victory for the Russian people.

      I absolutely agree, I also support. Without Stalin, there would be no USSR and there would be no modern Russia.
      The merit of Suvorov is obvious, but he won individual battles, although they were global. Stalin defended the country and this is beyond competition.
      I think it was not included at the direction of Western puppeteers, it is still not so simple in our country, unfortunately.
      Stalin I.V. -greatest. And most understand this! But I didn’t turn it on, I think because Westerners are wildly afraid of him, they were afraid and will always be afraid!
      1. Good cat
        Good cat April 22 2014 09: 33
        +1
        I think Stalin was not included correctly, because in terms of the tasks he is solving, he is much higher than the indicated commanders, because he was a statesman. All the rest, maybe except Nevsky, solved narrow military tasks.
        1. Predator
          Predator April 22 2014 11: 59
          +1
          Okay! If you decide globally, where are Oleg and Svyatoslav of Kiev?! What did they do for Russia ?! At that time, bend the Khazar, the Constantinople Empire, unite Russia?! This feat is no less significant (for that period) than victory in 2 world! And you zapadentsy (pid..sy) all about Nezalezhnaya and Ukrov!
        2. dkflbvbh
          dkflbvbh April 22 2014 12: 37
          .
          Nevsky great commander? Defender of the Russian land? But what about the fact that he had permission to rule from the Tatar Khan? But how did he pay tribute to the Tatars? Why was he elevated to the saints?
      2. GRune
        GRune April 22 2014 10: 41
        +3
        Why not Kutuzov, he also defended the country only in 1812, what makes Stalin better ?.
        Suvorov A.V. won entire companies, that is, wars in the current sense, the war did not come to the Russian Empire during the time of Suvorov, he simply "bent" everyone abroad.
        1. Predator
          Predator April 22 2014 12: 07
          0
          In general, GLORY TO VANKA for the company!
      3. Serg 122
        Serg 122 April 22 2014 13: 40
        +1
        The merit of Suvorov is obvious, but Stalin I.V. - the greatest.
        I do not agree with you - if you think that such great generals as Zhukov, Rokossovsky do not deserve the title of "Great Generals", then following your logic, you need to call these titles (besides Stalin) also Catherine II and Alexander I ... Then Peter I don't forget - whoever pulled Russia out of the swamps, it was he yes
    2. Baloo_bst
      Baloo_bst April 22 2014 09: 03
      +4
      Bez I.V. Stalin in this vote no matter how.
      It is not in vain that Hitler is a petty tyrant of the Stalin era. (with)
    3. GRune
      GRune April 22 2014 10: 37
      0
      Correct homeland - the Soviet Union! For what they set the pluses I do not understand ...
      1. vladimirZ
        vladimirZ April 22 2014 11: 14
        -5
        Correct homeland - the Soviet Union!


        As the history of the late 20th century showed, the Soviet Union, unfortunately, turned out to be an incompetent state entity, which can be destroyed using the national map.
        Russia, the Russian World is a product of the millennium, cemented by the Russian people, accepted and preserved the originality of hundreds of peoples and nationalities, identifying themselves to the whole world as Russians, with one Motherland Russia.
    4. Turkir
      Turkir April 22 2014 18: 43
      0
      Commander and Commander in Chief are different things.
  4. mamont5
    mamont5 April 22 2014 07: 45
    +6
    "... some of the heroes-generals with the light hand of outside" experts "suddenly become executioners and almost war criminals ..."

    There are no angels among us at all, but I agree that of the represented Russian commanders, Suvorov occupies the most worthy place.
  5. Fox
    Fox April 22 2014 07: 51
    +1
    and which regiments led Zhukov? what operations did you carry out? in more detail, if possible ... and where is STALIN? or Stalin did nothing for the country? I hate these ratings from VGTRK.
  6. Corsair0304
    Corsair0304 April 22 2014 07: 59
    +12
    To put Zhukov next to Suvovor? I don’t know, I don’t know ... Suffice it to recall the "Rzhevskaya meat grinder":
    Rzhev-Vyazemsky operation (1942)
    The Rzhev-Vyazemsky operation (January 8 - April 20, 1942) is an offensive operation of the Kalininsky troops (Colonel General I. S. Konev) and the Western (Army General G.K. Zhukov) fronts, carried out with the assistance of the North-Western and Bryansk fronts . It was an integral part of the strategic offensive of the Soviet troops in the winter of 1941/1942. It had the goal of completing the rout of the German-fascist army group "Center" (commander - Field Marshal G. von Kluge). Despite the incompleteness, the operation was important during the general offensive of the Red Army. Soviet troops drove the enemy westward for 80-250 km, completed the liberation of the Moscow and Tula regions, liberated many areas of the Kalinin and Smolensk regions. From January 1 to March 30, 1942 Army Group Center lost more than 330 thousand people. Losses of Soviet troops in the operation, according to official figures, amounted to 776 people, of which 889, or 272%, were irretrievable.

    The first Rzhev-Sychevskaya operation
    The first Rzhev-Sychev operation, or the Second battle for Rzhev (July 30 - October 1, 1942) - the fighting of the Kalininsky (I. S. Konev) and the Western (G.K. Zhukov, he also led the entire operation) fronts with the aim of defeating German 9th Army (Colonel General V. Model), defending itself in the Rzhev-Vyazemsky ledge. The total losses of the Soviet troops in the operation amounted to about 300 people, or 000% of the size of the Red Army group at the beginning of the operation. Incomplete losses in tanks amounted to about 60 units. The direct losses of the 1085th Army in the battles for Rzhev (from July 30 to October 30, 1) amounted to 1942 people. The losses of the German side are unknown.

    Second Rzhev-Sychevskaya operation
    The second Rzhev-Sychev operation, or Operation Mars (November 25 - December 20, 1942), is a new operation of the Kalinin (M. A. Purkaev) and Western (I. S. Konev) fronts with the aim of defeating the German 9th Army. The operation was led by Army General G.K. Zhukov. According to D. Glanz, in the three weeks of the Mars operation, Soviet troops lost about 100 thousand soldiers killed and missing and 235 thousand wounded. A.S. Orlov gives other figures: irretrievable losses amounted to 70,4 thousand people, 1366 tanks were lost. The losses of the German side amounted to about 40 people and 000 tanks and assault guns.


    I can’t imagine Suvorov putting more than MILLION of his soldiers!
    1. PMM
      PMM April 22 2014 09: 40
      +2
      And as a result, the Wehrmacht simply deleted from the plans an attack on Moscow. The front was 200 km away from Moscow. About a million lost per YEAR during a very difficult offensive operations. And to think how Suvorov acted in this situation is at least stupid, since time is different and the situation is different.
    2. vinc
      vinc April 22 2014 10: 38
      +1
      And what do you know about Suvorov’s losses? Nobody counted them, and if they did, they forgot.
      This is a war and it is not waged in a white glove. As they say: The larger the surgeon, the larger the cemetery. So with Zhukov, who was thrown into the most hopeless areas, naturally there were meat grinders. The Germans knew what was left a little and climbed with all their might, and ours knew that behind the country, people, families. Therefore, they must respect and value everyone. (and the competition is stupid).
      1. goose
        goose April 22 2014 14: 48
        0
        And the soldiers at Suvorov were not conscripts, but pros, who had served for 25 years.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Turkir
        Turkir April 22 2014 18: 47
        +2
        Everyone knows about the losses of Suvorov, and for every battle - relations are preserved.
        The biggest losses for Ishmael. This is all written down, written, used to be read.
        Losses are insignificant, an amazing fact.
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. ddd1975
      ddd1975 April 22 2014 12: 59
      +1
      Comparison of losses - without data on enemy losses - is not correct ... The ratio of losses of the attacking side is 3: 1, given the terrain, even higher. This is for the objectivity of Artina. Although, my grandfather (who ended the war as a colonel, deputy of the army headquarters) did not speak very forestly about Zhukov ... the term "division burner" was just the first time I heard from my grandfather.
    5. Uncle Ivan
      Uncle Ivan April 22 2014 15: 21
      +1
      You didn’t take into account one thing,
      Suvorov fought constantly for over 40 years, he trained a professional army, which was not equal.

      Zhukov did not have such experience and the military.
  7. ImPerts
    ImPerts April 22 2014 08: 05
    +2
    This is not a competition, but some kind of special Olympics ...
    Especially with specific explanations regarding the inclusion or exclusion from the list of contestants ...
  8. RPG_
    RPG_ April 22 2014 08: 17
    +3
    Stalin would have been out of competition and therefore not included. Although maybe Suvorov would argue with him.
    1. Predator
      Predator April 22 2014 13: 58
      +1
      Suvorov is not from that category! Peter, Catherine, Stalin! Compare them like that! But Suvorov did not make a commander and politician!
  9. ZU-23
    ZU-23 April 22 2014 08: 19
    +1
    It’s hard for me to assess who made the greatest contribution to the military history of Russia, because they are all heroes, and to appreciate it only because of circumstances is also not fair, because they would all act approximately the same if they were interchanged. It is necessary to pay such respect every year and give first place to everyone in turn smile
  10. smurnoi
    smurnoi April 22 2014 08: 24
    +8
    why this competition? All-Russian State Television and Radio Broadcasting Company (VGTRK) gives the impression of "cheerful idiot and sov". Senseless contests, endless TV shows and crazy comedians. State,, channel. Afraid for the state ...
    1. wax
      wax April 22 2014 13: 19
      +1
      I completely agree. The fifth column in clothes, painted under patriotism. Smerdyakovschina, if in fact.
    2. Turkir
      Turkir April 22 2014 18: 50
      0
      Probably they wanted to know, but someone else remembers THEIR or whom exactly. A kind of sociological survey.
    3. Turkir
      Turkir April 22 2014 23: 40
      0
      mindless comedians?
  11. blizart
    blizart April 22 2014 08: 28
    +3
    The main thing that they had in Russia is, is and I hope will be. It is difficult to overestimate their need for self-identification of the people. Here Kazakhs, for example, are rummaging around in their history, but all the figures are too small and do not hold out, one is more or less suitable, and even that Panfilov I.V.
  12. Nikich
    Nikich April 22 2014 08: 28
    +9
    That's right, but I don’t agree about Zhukov. Rokossovsky is much better than him. And he was not the only one to betray Stalin.
    1. Docent1984
      Docent1984 April 22 2014 09: 36
      +10
      Rokossovsky was a genius of military art and a model of officer honor. A real man who was responsible for his every word. And be that as it may, in history, he will most likely forever remain as the commander who developed and carried out the largest offensive operation of all wars. But Zhukov shouldn't be interfered with with shit either. He had one trait that sometimes turned out to be more important than all others - he was never afraid of anyone or anything, and he always took responsibility, even in the most difficult situations. And it's worth a lot. Well, by the way, about relations - when the persecution of Zhukov began after the war, among those who supported him were only Rokossovsky, Shaposhnikov and Rybalko. These are people who, to put it mildly, did not get along well with him before. And "loyal friends" a la Konev were in the vanguard of the jackals.
      1. SLX
        SLX April 22 2014 10: 25
        +5
        Quote: Docent 1984
        But Zhukov should not interfere with shit. He had one trait that sometimes turned out to be more important than all the others - he never was afraid of anyone or anything, and he always took responsibility, even in the most difficult situations. And it is worth a lot.


        These are beautiful myths and legends about the glorious Zhukov. You can look at the realities of Rokossovsky, for example: the decision to conduct proactive counterattack preparation by Head of the Stavka Comrade Zhukov entrusted Comrade Rokossovsky to the front commander.

        If the worker-peasant, then the representative of the Headquarters Comrade Zhukov washed his hands and shifted responsibility for making a decision to Commander of the Front Comrade Rokossovsky. I also note that decision-making is the main command and control of the Headquarters and was not sent to the fronts to pick at the front and not to scam denunciations at the Headquarters, but to make local decisions.

        And there are many such episodes in Zhukov’s biography.
      2. goose
        goose April 22 2014 14: 52
        0
        Konev was not a friend, he was just an ally of one clip, he and Zhukov had rival relations throughout the war. Just a warrior of such a level as Konev was sorely lacking to competently conduct business. There was no time for talent. Talents surfaced only by 1943.
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. denis02135
        denis02135 April 22 2014 23: 38
        +2
        Read Rokosovsky about the Battle of Kursk where Zhukov refused to take responsibility for delivering the first artillery strike, and drove off to the Western Front to Sokolovsky.
  13. pink
    pink April 22 2014 08: 46
    +4
    Only A.V. Suvorov
  14. Name
    Name April 22 2014 09: 02
    +9
    All GREAT COLUMNERS EVERYONE AT YOUR TIME !. EVERYONE IN THE HISTORY OF RUSSIA, eachTHEY ON ONE PEDESTAL HIS NAME IS RUSSIA! IMHO.
    1. PMM
      PMM April 22 2014 09: 46
      +1
      This is the most true statement! I completely agree. hi Each of them is a hero of his time, and judging who is better, who is worse, whose name is the name of Victory, is at least strange. All of them are winners, and the name of each is largely synonymous with the word Victory.
  15. Epizikl
    Epizikl April 22 2014 09: 02
    +2
    I would generally delete from the list of this flayer Zhukov G.K., who did not put the life of a simple soldier at all !!!
    Surely, under his leadership, the maximum number of soldiers died ...
    Alas, alas ...
    People, like soldiers in this country, are just dust ...
    This is not my attitude, this is the attitude of the country and government towards people ...

    Tough, rude (maybe), but it's TRUE!
    1. Docent1984
      Docent1984 April 22 2014 09: 41
      +2
      This is a common opinion that they have been trying to impose on us lately. In fact, a scrupulous calculation of combat losses gives such a picture, according to which the losses of Zhukov's armies are no more, and in some cases even less than the average for the Red Army. Rokossovsky stands apart, but this is generally a separate conversation. And the dubious "leader" in this indicator is Konev, who, in his words, is very close to the soldiers. Unfortunately, I did not save the link, where I read about it. Take my word)
    2. SukhovAM
      SukhovAM April 22 2014 12: 26
      0
      This war could not be humane. Dying in millions, the cost of mistakes - millions of lives! And only who won it - proved his innocence! Zhukov - won !!! There would be no such victims, there would be us!
      1. atos_kin
        atos_kin April 22 2014 13: 51
        -1
        Zhukov essentially brought Khrushchev to destroy the Union, therefore, as a visionary commander, he is rotten and he has no forgiveness.
  16. Nonstop
    Nonstop April 22 2014 09: 04
    +4
    Regardless of the political system and the influence of the ruling elite, all these people have made a huge contribution to the integrity of our country and the sovereignty of the state.
    Still, the top 20 malicious invaders amounted to.
  17. kapral14091975
    kapral14091975 April 22 2014 09: 09
    +1
    in all ages in Russia there were a lot of talented commanders, so choosing one would not be right from my point of view, each of them did a lot of good for Russia
  18. Voenruk
    Voenruk April 22 2014 09: 10
    +4
    All are good! Everyone tried for their homeland. Conducting such surveys is an insult to national history. This is an election campaign to vote for them.
  19. Cossacks
    Cossacks April 22 2014 09: 16
    0
    Got their ratings. Each commander in his historical segment is BEST. I agree with those who consider Stalin out of competition. We still use his achievements. It was clear in advance in the subjectivity of the assessments. A simple example is Ermak. Where is he. But he could ask where Zin’s money came from. But the oligarchs probably did not hear about this. There are also examples when, for the sake of political correctness, brilliant personalities are hushed up. I have come across often - everyone knows about Napoleon, and who opposed him in 1812, Kutuzov answered, but no one heard about Alexander I. But it’s good that at least Kolchak was not stuck in the rating.
  20. Tanechka-clever
    Tanechka-clever April 22 2014 09: 24
    +3
    "The name of Victory" is probably not very correct. After all, each military leader was "Victory Day" in his place and in his time, and to all of them we owe "Great Russia" - they are all for me and each individually - "VICTORY". And also those millions of unknown heroes about whom nothing is known, but honestly fulfilling their duty - maybe it is worth canceling it and this will be true. But it is worth keeping the list of military leaders and their services to the Fatherland.
  21. La xnumx
    La xnumx April 22 2014 09: 29
    +2
    Gee, the organizers were afraid that Stalin would win, but they didn’t include him in the list!
  22. Cossacks
    Cossacks April 22 2014 09: 30
    0
    I almost forgot. Now a film about Prophetic Oleg is being shot at the initiative of Zadornov. Do they know a lot about his great deeds? I will take the liberty of asserting that this contest, following the example of Miss Muho-sk, is a bad idea.
  23. The comment was deleted.
  24. Alexey N
    Alexey N April 22 2014 09: 34
    +3
    Hard to imagine bоmore idiocy than voting. "Who is cooler, Suvorov or Kutuzov?" - Nonsense !!!
  25. raven75
    raven75 April 22 2014 10: 18
    +3
    Stupid contest ... It all depends on the specific conditions. But if so, then I am for A.V. Suvorov. The commander who has not lost a single battle. Miraculous, dodged at home, and fought with the enemy in the same ranks as his soldiers, was repeatedly wounded, a couple of times seriously. And the capture of Ishmael ??? It was considered (and former) an impregnable fortress Suvorov took by storm a smaller number of soldiers than it was in the fortress itself. In fact, this is impossible, as was believed and is still considered. The number of assaults must exceed the number of defenders at least three times. Probably Suvorov did not know about this.
    1. GRune
      GRune April 22 2014 10: 44
      +1
      Suvorov A.V. definitely!
    2. Pilat2009
      Pilat2009 April 22 2014 16: 55
      0
      Quote: raven75
      Probably Suvorov did not know about this.

      Suvorov did not know that he was at war with the Turks. At once, they did not work out with us ...
    3. Turkir
      Turkir April 22 2014 23: 48
      0
      Everything is correct, except for freaks and dope. Suvorov knew his worth. The genius of war.
      And in everyday life, like a father? Simpleton. In a letter I wrote to my little daughter, "and today, to my horse, the muzzle was torn off by the core". He wanted, apparently, to entertain my daughter.
  26. Kornilovets
    Kornilovets April 22 2014 10: 27
    +3
    No. 1 !!! Alexander Vasilievich Suvorov was and will be.
  27. mitya24
    mitya24 April 22 2014 10: 40
    0
    And why is Peter the Great not in the top ten? In my humble understanding, there should be a place in the top five. Under the First, much was done for the first time, and the troops led by him won not only on land, but also at sea. Well, the importance of Poltava Victoria is generally difficult to overestimate. The loss to Carlos threatened to throw young Russia into the margins of European history. And in general, in my opinion, when determining the places among the proposed commanders, it is necessary to take into account various criteria and introduce appropriate nominations. The most talented is Suvorov, the most cunning is Kutuzov, the most popular is Skobelev, and so on. For example, Alexander Vasilyevich, undoubtedly the most talented, who did not lose a single battle, is a real synonym for "VICTORY", but at the same time defeated enemies who did not claim the total destruction of Russians as a nation, which cannot be said about Dmitry Donskoy and Alexander Nevsky. Well, in general, G. Zhukov and K. Rokossovsky are out of competition by this criterion, who made a significant contribution to the victory over the most terrible enemy in the entire history of mankind - fascism. And therefore, comparing Zhukov and Suvorov, to put it mildly, is not entirely appropriate. Perhaps Alexander Vasilyevich simply did not need to sacrifice millions of lives?
  28. Korchmin
    Korchmin April 22 2014 11: 29
    +2
    Stalin (represented by the government) gave his assessment of the Zhukov-Vasilevsky tandem: the number of Soviet awards Vasilevsky had for the period 1941-1945. more than Zhukov, although the starting possibilities were very different ...
    But Zhukov was promoted from the time of Khrushchov, and Vasilevsky is still afraid to erect a monument in Moscow ...
    PS Vasilevsky did not make it to the final "rating" (17th place).
  29. tundra
    tundra April 22 2014 11: 30
    0
    for example, like Kalashnikov or Uralvagonzavod.
  30. tundra
    tundra April 22 2014 11: 33
    0
    for example, like Kalashnikov or Uralvagonzavod.
  31. Cossacks
    Cossacks April 22 2014 11: 44
    0
    In the previous comment, I called the idea of ​​a contest a bad one, I changed my mind, this is a very bad idea. It’s not for us to build the Great Ranking Leaders. The organizers should do their favorite thing and arrange a contest, say miss the biggest ass, or the most bitchy TV presenter - I even guess who will receive the audience’s antipathy prize.
  32. vardex
    vardex April 22 2014 11: 52
    +3
    The name of victory over the fascist beast can be only one STALIN and the Soviet people, or rather the Stalinist system.
    Our System turned out to be more progressive, reliable, more efficient. It is precisely this System that the enemies of our country, external and internal enemies, are still afraid of like fire. They are well aware that it is not "General Frost", and not Alexander Matrosov that brought the USSR victory. The principles of governance, control and responsibility of Stalinism have provided phenomenal results.
  33. nnz226
    nnz226 April 22 2014 12: 10
    +6
    BAD COMPETITION! Each of the great generals lived and drove adversaries in his time, and he was great! And comparing Suvorov and Zhukov is pointless! Could Zhukov have gone without training with Russian soldiers through the Alps with minimal losses in 1799? Or Suvorov in January 1945 to create the Vistula-Oder operation? Baaal question! The same Kutuzov could not immediately break into Izmail with his column, Suvorov had to morally urge him on, announcing the commandant of a fortress that had not yet been taken. And in 1812, Kutuzov brilliantly knocked out "the best commander of Europe" Napoleon from Russia with a kick in the ass with huge losses of the all-European army.
  34. Silkway0026
    Silkway0026 April 22 2014 12: 21
    +4
    without Joseph Vissarionovich Stalin (Dzhugashvili), this competition is complete profanity.

    these "organizers" of the contests last time dabbled in "The Name of Russia", they had to erase the results of Stalin's unconditional victory; this time they took into account the mistake, formulated so that Stalin's name was not even on the list, it was impossible to choose him.

    I'm happy for Suvorov, but outraged by the unfair "device" of the competition
  35. Andrey82
    Andrey82 April 22 2014 12: 27
    0
    How can one compare and even contrast each other with generals who led the rebuff to the enemies of our people in different eras?
  36. Zheka Krasnoyarsk
    Zheka Krasnoyarsk April 22 2014 13: 06
    +1
    Principle: divide and conquer applied to everything. If there wasn’t even one of their list, it’s not known how history would have turned. Just a stupid idea of ​​this contest and not even idiotic (to say the least).
  37. aviator65
    aviator65 April 22 2014 13: 09
    +1
    I have already written on this topic and want to repeat it again. It is impossible to determine the "leader" among great people by rating or by someone's personal preferences. Each commander had his own wars and victories. How can you compare the military leadership talent of Suvorov with the military leadership talent of Zhukov, and both of them with the talent of Dmitry Donskoy? These people are representatives of different historical eras, with different mentality and worldview. They are united only by the fact that they all served our Fatherland and became part of its history. Which one is better or worse? Who is more valuable than a mother - history? - as Mayakovsky said. A question from the category "who do you love more: mom or dad?" Merit cannot be measured by ratings, just like history is taught from comics. And then, Alexander Nevsky and Dmitry Donskoy are undoubtedly legendary personalities who have become symbols. But how much do we really know about them? And how in reality (I emphasize in reality, and not according to canonical descriptions) the battles in which they won their victories took place? The question is not out of a desire to belittle their merits, but without this knowledge, trying to evaluate their military leadership is an unrealistic task.
    Why doesn't VGTRK go further? Announce contests "Name of Science", "Name of Literature", "Name of Culture", and so on.
  38. Korchmin
    Korchmin April 22 2014 13: 14
    0
    For some reason, the talented Alexander Ilyich Bibikov, the commander-in-chief of the troops in the fight against the Polish Confederates and in the suppression of the Pugachev uprising, was not on the general list of generals.
    Only the poisoning of the commander allowed Pugachev (and the Polish separatists standing behind him) to avoid defeat.

    "He was a skillful leader in battle" - wrote the poet Derzhavin in "Ode to the death of Bibikov".

    After the death of Bibikov, in the words of Pushkin, "Petersburg and Moscow were struck with horror. Soon all of Russia felt an irreparable loss.". The fire of the Pugachevschina flared up again on the previous scale and it was possible to extinguish it only a few months later with the help of the genius Alexander Suvorov.

    By the way, Bibikov was not only a like-minded person of Suvorov, but also a mentor to Kutuzov (who, as you know, after Bibikov’s death, became related to him, marrying his own sister).
  39. qwert
    qwert April 22 2014 14: 34
    +1
    I look here for Zhukov minus. You can not scold him. After all, he wrote so beautifully about himself, and the Soviet cinematography glorified him. (Although Soviet cinema is the best. I'm serious)
    But, the soldiers did not call him "General Offensive" at all. They did not like him. Because for the sake of victory I was ready to lay them down in stacks. Read books about Halkin Gol. Zhukov arrived and summoned the company commanders. I disassembled the disparity and ordered to shoot those who did not hold the position the day before. There were 11 of them. Probably, they didn’t shoot them, but they came under the tribunal. After the analysis, he sent the commanders to the units. Of the newly appointed, instead of 11 dismissed, 7 people got lost at night and could not find their new units. In the morning Zhukov ordered to shoot them too. Is that okay?
    What? Behind Moscow was. Why such cruelty?
    And the officer’s court of honor, if I’m not mistaken, in 1949? When the generals told him this was not so. After all, he hung all the merits on himself, though at the same time he had to call the rest almost mediocrity. Whose idea was to forestall the German offensive on the Kursk Bulge with an artlet? Zhukov? No, Rokossovsky. And in the book and various speeches he attributed this to himself. In general, such moments at that officer’s court were enough for two hours.
    1. Chuykov
      Chuykov April 22 2014 19: 06
      0
      But didn’t you take the facts about Khalkhin-Gol from the book of the so-called writer Suvorov? But didn’t the operation end in a complete defeat of the Japanese, with minimal losses to the Soviet army?
  40. stoqn477
    stoqn477 April 22 2014 15: 25
    0
    Guys, why isn’t included in the classification of Marshal Vasilevsky, Alexander Mikhailovich?
  41. Chuykov
    Chuykov April 22 2014 18: 59
    0
    Yes, in my opinion, the competition is somewhat blurred, to a certain extent it is quite difficult to compare the merits of the commanders of different eras. But the fact that the results of the competition will be affected by some "promotion" of all three finalists, this is a fact, because in the general mass few know, for example, who such Skobelev or Ermolov, while Zhukov, Nevsky and Suvorov are the most popular characters in Soviet historiography.
  42. VAZ-2102
    VAZ-2102 April 22 2014 19: 14
    0
    Parasitically. 70 years have passed since the war, but we do not know for sure the soldiers killed Zhukov for nothing or not. If you take Zhukov’s memories, then there are no evidence that the opposite is true. Usually the Stalinists reproach him and Stalin respected Zhukov very much. It’s not for nothing that Zhukov was deputy defense for Stalin.
  43. Stavros
    Stavros April 22 2014 19: 21
    0
    It’s simply not proper to determine which of them is great. All of them are worthy sons of their Fatherland.
    1. evgenii
      evgenii April 22 2014 19: 35
      0
      You are absolutely right .. By the way, they forgot about Prince Dovmont (St. Timothy of Pskov), and about Mikhaila Vorotynsky, the winner in the greatest battle of that time, the Battle against the Tatar-Crimean and Turkish armies under YOUNG
  44. A1L9E4K9S
    A1L9E4K9S April 22 2014 20: 35
    0
    That's what friends, we are millions and each person has his own opinion, although we all quarrel, fight, and we will not come to an unequivocal opinion. It is very difficult to make a choice, there are a great galaxy of Russian commanders, each is good and bad in its own way, each has many skeletons in closet. For me, the greatest commander is the Russian people. In vain, the organizers staged this vote, there was no need to tear up the past. Each military leader fought for their homeland because of their abilities and it was not for us to reproach them for cruelty or weakness. There were dashing times.
  45. sprut
    sprut April 22 2014 20: 53
    +1
    I voted for Yermolov.
  46. Oleg1968
    Oleg1968 April 22 2014 20: 54
    0
    IMHO: It is ridiculous, stupid, and probably politically "biased" to rank by "rank". If you enter one, then you do not need to look for it, it is a RUSSIAN SOLDIER
  47. SLX
    SLX April 22 2014 21: 10
    +1
    In the comments, opinions expressed different opinions about the competition. Add my five cents.

    Do you need similar contests? Are needed. Only they must be done not through the ass, but after thinking a lot. For example, regarding the formulation of questions. For how and how will we measure the actions of the commander? His contribution to the art of war? So this is a very narrow area of ​​human knowledge, accessible only to professionals. And that is not for everyone, but only for those who have access to documents that are still not declassified - for example, for some reason, not declassified documents of the Headquarters of the Second World War. And until there is widespread access to the real truth about the wars of Russia, there will be no objective assessments.

    Can then measure folk love? Why not? This is closer to the tasks of propaganda. And for the masses. Here are just a lot of intimate details about the life and work of our commanders, too, inaccessible to the masses, because they are contrary to popular prints of heroes. So there are considerable problems with popular love.

    Therefore, such surveys are only able to reflect the current opinion of the population about their former leaders. But this is also a very interesting and very useful affair. True, it is useful if and only if there is freedom of choice, and not the rigid attitudes of the organizers of the competition. And if there was such a free choice, the number of votes for General Vlasov would surprise many. And others would be forced to think that something is clearly wrong in the Danish kingdom. Not so, not because the traitor was on the blessed lists, but because they vote for him and there are many such voices.
  48. bbss
    bbss April 22 2014 21: 39
    +1
    This "Guess" is not needed. First, history should be taught as normal. Or popularize. Why did they lump together the generals of different eras? How to compare the merits of political leaders, statesmen Peter the Great, Alexander Nevsky, Alexander the First and generals, voivods, field marshals, generals who were not political figures? Why load the list with the names of commanders who obviously won't even make it to the semifinals? There is profanation under the guise of popularization.
    I did not vote and I will not. Although I like the life and heroic deeds of the Russian commander General Field Marshal Peter Lassi (Irish by nationality). Russian soldiers loved and respected him.
    What did you hear about him?
  49. Gato
    Gato April 22 2014 21: 45
    0
    The diversity of views is a wonderful thing, but still there are questions where such diversity can lead to a sad result.

    The diversity of views, for example, in the XII century, led to the general belief that the Earth is round, and witches need to be burned. It is great that then there was no Internet (and a variety of views). You can see that these were the dogmas of religion. Well yes. And what is better media today? The difference is only in the level of technology - human stupidity does not change request
    People of the 300th century would not understand at all what we are arguing about now, and in XNUMX years our disputes will seem to our descendants something like a dispute "who owns this forest with such delicious hares." laughing
    1. Turkir
      Turkir April 22 2014 23: 59
      0
      The diversity of views, for example, in the XII century, led to the general belief that the Earth is round, and witches need to be burned. It is great that then there was no Internet (and a variety of views). You can see that these were the dogmas of religion.

      What did you mean? Apparently about something not available to me. recourse
  50. artgrad
    artgrad April 22 2014 22: 03
    0
    Quote: Predator
    In general, GLORY TO VANKA for the company!
    - Roly-platoon!