Military Review

Why do the Japanese hate in neighboring Asian countries

277
Why do the Japanese hate in neighboring Asian countries



During World War II, it was common for Japanese soldiers and officers to chop civilians with swords, pin down with bayonets, rape and kill women, and kill children, old people. That is why, for the Koreans and the Chinese, the Japanese are hostile people, murderers.

In July, 1937, the Japanese attacked China, the Japanese-Chinese war began, which lasted until the 1945 year. In November-December 1937, the Japanese army launched an attack on Nanjing. December 13 Japanese captured the city, 5 days was a massacre (the killings continued and later, but not so massive), which entered into historyas the "Nanking Massacre." In the course of the massacre, which was staged by the Japanese, more than 350 thousand people were slaughtered, some sources cite a figure of half a million people. Tens of thousands of women were raped, many of them killed. The Japanese army acted on the basis of the 3's “clean” principles: “burn out clean”, “kill everyone clean”, “steal clean”.

The slaughter began with the fact that the Japanese soldiers withdrew thousands of Chinese of military age from the city of 20 and killed everyone with bayonets so that they could never join the Chinese army. The peculiarity of the massacres and harassment was that the Japanese did not shoot - they protected the ammunition, killed everyone and crippled them. weapons. After that, the massacres began in the city, women, girls, old women were raped, then killed. They cut hearts out of living people, cut their bellies, pierced their eyes, buried them alive, cut off their heads, killed even babies, and madness was happening on the streets. Women were raped right in the middle of the streets - the Japanese were intoxicated by impunity and forced fathers to rape daughters, mother sons, samurai competed, who would kill a man more with a sword - a certain samurai Mukai who killed an 106 man won.

After the war, the crimes of the Japanese military were condemned by the world community, but since Tokyo has denied them since the 1970-ies, Japanese history textbooks write about the massacre that many people were simply killed in the city, without details.



Singapore massacre

15 February 1942, the Japanese army captured the English colony of Singapore. The Japanese decided to identify and destroy “anti-Japanese elements” in the Chinese community. During Operation Purge, the Japanese checked all male-men of draft age, including Chinese men who participated in the war with Japan, Chinese officials serving the British administration, Chinese people who donated money to help China, Chinese, Chinese-born, and so on. From the filtration camps they were taken out and shot. Then the operation was extended to the whole peninsula, they decided not to "stand on ceremony" there, and, due to the lack of people for the inquiry, they shot everyone in a row. Approximately 50 of thousands of Chinese were killed, who were still lucky, the Japanese did not complete Operation Purge, they had to deploy troops to other sectors - they planned to destroy the entire Chinese population of Singapore and the peninsula.



Manila massacre

When in early February 1945 of the year it became clear to the Japanese command that Manila could not be held, the army headquarters was transferred to the city of Baguio, and Manila was decided to be destroyed. Population destroy. In the capital of the Philippines, according to the most modest estimates, more than 110 thousand people were killed. Thousands of people were shot, many were poured with gasoline and set on fire, the city’s infrastructure, apartment buildings, schools, and hospitals were destroyed. On February 10, the Japanese massacred the Red Cross building, killed everyone, even the children, and the Spanish consulate was burned, along with the people.

The slaughter was going on in the suburbs, in the town of Kalamba, the entire population was destroyed - 5 thousand people. They did not spare the monks and nuns of Catholic institutions, schools, and students were killed.



The system of "comfort stations"

In addition to the rape of tens, hundreds, thousands of women, the Japanese authorities are guilty of another crime against humanity - the creation of a network of brothels for soldiers. The usual practice was to rape women in the occupied villages, some women were taken with them, few of them were able to return.

In 1932, the Japanese command decided to create “comfortable home-stations”, justifying their creation by a decision to reduce anti-Japanese sentiment due to mass rape on Chinese soil, concern for the health of soldiers who need to “rest” and not get sick with venereal diseases. At first they were created in Manchuria, in China, then in all the occupied territories - in the Philippines, Borneo, Burma, Korea, Malaysia, Indonesia, Vietnam, and so on. In total, these brothels passed from 50 to 300 thousand women, and most of them were minors. Until the end of the war, no more than a quarter survived, morally and physically disfigured, poisoned by antibiotics. The Japanese authorities even created the proportions of “service”: 29 (“customers”): 1, then raised to 40: 1 per day.

Currently, the Japanese authorities deny these data, earlier Japanese historians spoke about the private nature and voluntariness of prostitution.



Death squad - 731 squad

In 1935, the so-called Japanese Kwantung Army was established. "731 squad", its goal was the development of biological weapons, delivery systems, human tests. He worked until the end of the war, the Japanese military did not have time to use biological weapons against the United States, and the USSR only because of the rapid onset of the Soviet troops in August 1945.

“Experimental mice” of Japanese specialists became more than 5 thousand prisoners and local residents, they called them “logs”. People were slaughtered alive for "scientific purposes", infected with the most terrible diseases, then "opened" while still alive. They carried out experiments on the survivability of "logs" - how long they would last without water and food, scalded with boiling water, after irradiation with an X-ray machine, withstand electrical discharges, without any cut-out organ, and more. another.

The Japanese command was ready to use biological weapons in the territory of Japan against the American landing, sacrificing civilians - the army and the leadership had to be evacuated to Manchuria, to the "alternate airfield" of Japan.

Asian nations have not yet forgiven Tokyo, especially in the light of the fact that in recent decades Japan has refused to admit more and more of its war crimes. Koreans remember that they were even forbidden to speak their native language, they ordered to change their native names to Japanese ones (“assimilation” policy) - approximately 80% of Koreans adopted Japanese names. Girls were hijacked in brothels; in 1939, 5 million people were forcibly mobilized into the industry. Korean cultural monuments were stolen or destroyed.

Sources:
http://www.battlingbastardsbataan.com/som.htm
http://www.intv.ru/view/?film_id=20797
http://films-online.su/news/filosofija_nozha_philosophy_of_a_knife_2008/2010-11-21-2838
http://www.cnd.org/njmassacre/
http://militera.lib.ru/science/terentiev_n/05.html
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  1. Ruslandeth
    Ruslandeth 17 July 2013 06: 51
    +33
    -------- He worked until the end of the war, the Japanese military did not have time to use biological weapons against the United States, and the USSR only thanks to the swift offensive of Soviet troops in August 1945 .---

    I don't know whether it's a bike or not, but I heard that the spread of encephalitis ticks in the regions of Sibiri and the Far East is the result of the use by the Japanese of the so-called. "biological weapons" - infected carriers (rodents, insects)
    1. anomalocaris
      anomalocaris 17 July 2013 07: 43
      +16
      Not a bike. So it was.
      1. afire
        afire 17 July 2013 09: 43
        +66
        I didn’t look much, and so everything is clear, tin, damn it turns out we alone on the planet didn’t do such shit ... You can not believe anyone but our army and navy.
        1. Pit
          Pit 17 July 2013 11: 54
          +34
          Quote: afire
          damn it turns out we alone on the planet did not do such shit ..

          Well, all of us who condemned us with all this condemned us, like it’s all our hands, and they are soft and fluffy nyashki whom the northern barbarians treacherously attacked and ...
          And the worst thing, in all this, is that we have some "fellow citizens" support this ...
        2. Aryan
          Aryan 17 July 2013 11: 54
          0
          I do not agree a bit, I give personal observations
          was recently in Vladivostok and drew attention to Japanese, Korean and Chinese tourists ....
          and it was very noticeable that the Koreans frowned more and went away all the same from the Ketais ...
          1. T80UM1
            T80UM1 17 July 2013 12: 03
            +7
            I’ll tell you one secret, the Koreans do not like the Chinese too, the occupiers are the ones, the Russians in vain hobnob with them ...
            1. Selevc
              Selevc 17 July 2013 19: 57
              +3
              Well, they were probably South Koreans, and China supported the North at one time, so they probably do not like it !!!
          2. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny 17 July 2013 12: 08
            +8
            Koreans don't like Japanese, of course, but they don't like Chinese anymore. Nobody likes them in Asia. Except Pakistanis laughing
            1. Quiet
              Quiet 17 July 2013 19: 02
              +2
              Koreans don't like Japanese, of course, but they don't like Chinese anymore

              And I treat the Koreans badly wassat - they eat dogs !!!! angry laughing
              1. pav-pon1972
                pav-pon1972 17 July 2013 19: 51
                +3
                Useful for the lungs ...
                1. pav-pon1972
                  pav-pon1972 18 July 2013 20: 43
                  +1
                  In 1993, I became a lieutenant in an ode to parts of the Khabarovsk garrison. At the central market I was treated to noodles, and there it turned out dog meat, eggs and soy sauce ... + dog meat, and after that I do not disdain dog meat (I graduated from UCOA) ....
          3. Coward
            Coward 17 July 2013 12: 24
            +1
            For the sake of curiosity. How did you distinguish between Chinese, Koreans and Japanese? You can’t tell about flags in your hands, they go without them. And by the way, there are very few Japanese tourists in Vladik.
            1. T80UM1
              T80UM1 17 July 2013 12: 28
              +11
              just like you distinguish between the Germans, the British and the Russians, although for me you are all Korean on the same face ... :) The Chinese have different facial features, like the Japanese and Koreans, the Chinese are basically all undersized, the Koreans are not, the Japanese have more eyes )))
              1. Igarr
                Igarr 17 July 2013 12: 48
                +26
                I grew up in Uzbekistan.
                Therefore, my very thought - how to distinguish them - is amazing.
                How? Yes, they are all different. And very different.
                I, say, a Tasmanian from an Australian, hardly distinguishable. And then, because there are no Tasmanians, not one.
                And, his Asians - so, grew up with them. Genka Pak is Genka. And Yurka Tsoi - This is Yurka. And Sun Han is a Chinese.
                Just like two fingers ... asphalt.
                1. German
                  German 17 July 2013 13: 27
                  +2
                  burning! FIVE points! tongue
              2. Coward
                Coward 17 July 2013 12: 52
                +1
                A question was asked to the Aryan.
                Regarding your answer.
                These are the Chinese undersized ???? As far as I remember, it was just about the Japanese that they said that the nation was undersized. I live in Dalian, near the so-called "Japanese house", the Japanese live. I'll try to compare the eyes.
                1. RPD
                  RPD 17 July 2013 13: 21
                  +3
                  I also grew up in the Asian republic and can distinguish Buryats from Kalmyks, Chinese from Japanese, or Korean. I can’t explain how, but I don’t even hear the language. even the northern Chinas are very different from the southern ones)))
                  1. Yeraz
                    Yeraz 17 July 2013 14: 29
                    +4
                    Quote: RPD
                    I also grew up in the Asian republic and can distinguish Buryats from Kalmyks, Chinese from Japanese, or Korean. I can’t explain how, but I don’t even hear the language. even the northern Chinas are very different from the southern ones)))

                    And in the north, the Turkic people are yogurs, not Chinese, they are higher and their eyes are wider than those of the Chinese.
                    1. Viator
                      Viator 18 July 2013 02: 34
                      +1
                      Xinjiang is not all of China, and it is full of Han Chinese, i.e. ethnic Chinese. He lived there for three years.
            2. Marek Rozny
              Marek Rozny 17 July 2013 14: 16
              +13
              Coward, Mongoloid peoples are very different. Kazakhs and Japanese are indistinguishable in appearance. Once he worked in international affairs, and when the Japanese delegations came, he was always soared, confusing his own people and the Japanese. Like "our", I address him in Russian or in Kazakh: "Please go there", "Take the materials", and in response I heard the embarrassed "Arigato". And you look at this, like a Japanese: "Please, take your seat", and in response: "Thank you, I will choose my place myself." laughing
              But Koreans are usually quite different. Cut the eyes first. Mongols, Kyrgyz and Eastern Kazakhs - the standard of "Mongoloid". Koreans are taller than Chinese. From the Chinese, the smell is characteristic - a nasty sweet-sour. I don't know if we smell like lamb or horse meat laughing , but the Chinese have a smell that cannot be confused with anything. The Japanese movement is constrained, but the view is independent. Kazakhs have no stiffness at all, and their faces are arrogant. Koreans are calm, movement is very constrained. The Chinese keep in a crowd, they make a lot of noise (Kazakhs are also very noisy). The Japanese love to look at everything, the Kazakhs never look at anything from the sides, the Chinese look more at people. The Japanese and Kazakhs rarely look in the face (eyes) (unlike Europeans). The Chinese have chaotic arm and leg movements, worse dressed than all the other Asians I have mentioned. Kazakhs (at official meetings and drinking parties) are dressed the most expensively, they have the most expensive phones and watches. At informal meetings, South Koreans and Japanese sometimes dress too brightly (especially young ones), they love all kinds of baubles that Kazakhs generally hate. The Chinese, even officials, dress like "from a flea market." Japanese and Koreans usually have non-aggressive faces during a meeting. The Kazakh face looks more aggressive (even if he actually has no aggressive thoughts at all). Mongols, Kyrgyz people most often have a carefree and naive "face". The Chinese look constantly preoccupied with something. A wandering look, it is clear that a bunch of all sorts of thoughts are running through his head, of which only a small part is pronounced. The Japanese talk to a stranger a little, but loudly. The tonality is similar to Mongolian. South Koreans speak softly, the tone of voice is like that of small children (or rather like that of Japanese women), they speak in a drawn-out manner. Due to the peculiarities of speech, it is not immediately clear whether the Korean is swearing or not. The Chinese speak very quickly, the language is similar to the sounds of knocking thin strips of glands. The Japanese and Chinese gesticulate little. Koreans only actively gesticulate with loved ones. Kazakhs no longer gesture, but rather move their bodies like boxers. Koreans do not shout at children absolutely, and Kazakhs communicate with children in a soldier's way.
              In short, Asians can be distinguished among themselves even at a certain distance.
              1. Coward
                Coward 17 July 2013 15: 44
                +1
                Damn, maybe with observation I sucks. For me, the Koreans, the Japanese, the Chinese, even the Kazakhs are indistinguishable. Only in language and distinguish. I agree about the smell from the Chinese, but it seems to me that southerners are guilty of this. Northerners eat less of this grass, similar to wild garlic.
                1. Marek Rozny
                  Marek Rozny 17 July 2013 20: 21
                  +3
                  and another joke about which I forgot to say! Koreans do not sweat! Kazakhs, Mongols, Japanese sweat profusely from heat or work, and Koreans do not need deodorants)))) or they have non-sweaty sweat))) in short, a riddle for me. maybe because of their cuisine such a phenomenon or is it a genetic feature. xs.
                  and another funny joke. most Kazakhs (and mine) have ear wax sticky, like Europeans. and the Mongols and East Kazakhs have dry earwax, like all other Asians, including the Japanese and Koreans. Mom’s mother is a Kyrgyz, we need to ask what thread her sulfur is)))) I already asked a couple of years ago my friends on this topic))) a really interesting result was obtained)
              2. de_monSher
                de_monSher 18 July 2013 05: 42
                0
                By the way, Neighbor ... *) If you so stubbornly want to ascribe the Japanese to your relatives = and through them the Chinese, too, and they are proven to be related = you can safely delete your relatives, me, your neighbor, Uzbek ... * ) In me, a lot of blood, and Altai-Turkic, and Semitic, and Indo-European. But there is not a gram or blood of South Asian mentality ... *) Yes, you are right - their wars have been continuous genocide for centuries, and their main weapon is assimilation. But our main difference from them is a rather bright personality ... And when you, a small raid, of your ancestors of the nomads, into a neighboring village, with the rape of 50 neighboring women, and with a long pursuit, followed by chopping off the heads of 10-15 neighboring villages, you will call genocide, amid millions being cut out in wars between the clans of the Qin or Ming empire, I will make you laugh and say that you are falling into epic again fantasy... *)))

                So, Neighbor, choose yourself who you kinsmanand who is not. And at the same time, nevertheless, study the scientific and not the pseudo-scientific literature... *)

                That's something like this ... *)
                1. Marek Rozny
                  Marek Rozny 18 July 2013 18: 39
                  +4
                  The Uzbeks (those from the Turks) are nowhere closer to relatives. And the Sarts / Turkic Tajiks, who now call themselves Uzbeks, are not related to me. Everyone knows how pseudo-Uzbeks relate to Kazakhs. There was never any friendship between us. You are Sarts, not Altaians. And if I can visually confuse a Japanese or Mongol with a Kazakh, then I will not confuse a Sart with a Kazakh. And if I can talk about the historical kinship of the Altai peoples, then with the "Tajiks" I can only talk about a historical cultural exchange. Without any formulation about "brotherhood".
                  Z.Y. If, of course, you have Asian cheekbones, prefer horse meat rather than pilaf, and you know what Turkic kind you are from, then I will gladly call you an Uzbek and a relative. And if you are an ordinary, indigenous Tajik, then it would not even enter my head to look for family ties. I have a normal attitude towards Tajik culture and Tajiks, but even if you now speak Turkic, this does not mean that you have left Altai, Siberia and Mongolia, unlike the Turks, Mongols, Koreans and Japanese. With them I can talk about our distant kinship.
                  Well, in terms of mentality, Kazakhs and pseudo-Uzbeks are generally two opposites. A Buddhist Kalmyk or a Russified Tatar with a Russian name is much closer to me than a Muslim "Uzbek". In short, the Altai / Turanians are not related to you, and this has always been known to everyone.
                  1. de_monSher
                    de_monSher 18 July 2013 19: 36
                    +1
                    Unless, of course, you have Asian cheekbones, prefer horse meat rather than pilaf,


                    Stunned. Neighbor, will you still set conditions for me - "if you eat horse meat - relatives, if you eat pork - it doesn't matter, if you eat grasshoppers - jump off to ..."? So what? Like, you adhere strictly to Chinese "wisdom" = she will touch me utterly =, "I am what I am to him"? So why don't you gallop across the steppes, why don't you cover mares? .. *))))

                    Neighbor, I have three principles in eating -

                    1. Do not eat horses... You know, I myself raised one horse, Akhal-Teke - Magda, from young hooves. And I have a friendly attitude towards horses. I respect them. Here is to curb the wild, I love it with pleasure, in this relation with horses on you. But about you, I'm not even sure that you know how to stay in the saddle, here, as in the saying - "Grandfather is a Cossack, Father is a Cossack son, and his Son ..." hmm ... let's say - dog tail ... *)
                    2. Do not eat dogs. Dogs are also my weakness. These are human friends and not food ... *)
                    3. I do not eat any dirty tricks like the Chinese ... *) Well, nafih, you get drunk some thread of deer shit, and you yourself become a deer ... *)

                    And if for you, neighbor, grub, this is what determines your worldview, then yes - you are not my kin, and not a neighbor even ... then you have a direct road to relatives with the Japanese ... *)))) = laugh = ...
                    1. Marek Rozny
                      Marek Rozny 19 July 2013 06: 19
                      +2
                      Quote: de_monSher
                      you do not cover mares

                      Bestiality and sleeping with bachs is a non-Kazakh occupation. But sartes perceived it normally.
                      VI Kushelevsky, "Materials for medical geography and sanitary description of the Fergana region". Volume II. - New Margelan, 1891:
                      "... in general ... in Ferghana ... a significant number of the poor male population must satisfy themselves in another way; hence sodomy and bestiality.
                      ... They (Ferghana - my note) corrupt the boys to satisfy their passion; ... this kind of copulation is called by them (residents of Kashgar - my note) “Andijancha”, because in general in Kashgar and other neighboring countries all Ferghana people are called Andijan people.
                      ... there existed, and maybe even now exist ... brothels with boys and hermaphrodites, serving for unnatural copulation with the poorest population, such as: mardakers, arbakeshs, etc. BL Grombchevsky told me that he accidentally stumbled upon one of these brothels, located on the road between N. Margelan and the village of Khoja-Magiz, found there 6 young boys aged 15-17, who satisfied the working class of N. Margelan; they lived in an ugly filthy environment, but they were dressed rather cleanly, and, moreover, they were whitewashed and rouged like prostitutes. The session cost 10 kopecks. "
                      http://rus-turk.livejournal.com/154265.html
                      Quote: de_monSher
                      Neighbor, I have three principles in eating -
                      1. Do not eat horses.

                      Who would doubt that. This is Altai food, not Sartovian.

                      Quote: de_monSher
                      But about you, I’m not even sure that you know how to stay in the saddle

                      I can not only ride and care, but also carve from start to finish. The benefit of the tribal village is a couple of hours away by car. Although far too steppe to measure knowledge of horses with melon traders.

                      ZY Pay attention, a Kazakh can easily call even the Buryats a fraternal people. And "Uzbeks" do not dare to call it that. And you yourself, use the word "neighbor", because you yourself understand that nifiga we are not relatives. And not even friends. What is considered a dignity by the Sarts is not valued by the Kazakhs (Kyrgyz, Karakalpaks). What we consider to be correct, the sarts take for an insignificant trifle. We have the opposite concept. In Uzbekistan, the word "Kazakh" (goat, kozooo) is a synonym for a naive simpleton who cannot be fooled by sin. And among the Kazakhs, the concept of "sart", which we still call you, is an unambiguous synonym for a deceiving merchant. Isn't that so? We have never been brothers in culture, genes, or mentality. It is now in Soviet times that the Sarts were ranked among the Turks, based on the linguistic principle. But both we and you know perfectly well that you are Sarts / Tajiks, not Turks. Therefore, the Kazakh / Kyrgyz / Karakalpak do not have any kindred feelings towards the "Uzbeks". Your brothers live in Dushanbe.

                      And food - very interesting factor. The Japanese and Hungarians, by the way, have horse meat in traditional national cuisine. They are not sarts.
                      And for you, any dog ​​is a friend, and we have a wolf - a noble beast, and of dogs - only a wolfhound-tobet and a hunting dog-basins are respected among the Turks for their intelligence, strength and courage. The Turks treated the rest of the well-known dog breeds with open contempt. Most dogs are cowardly creatures, yet most modern dogs are genetically descended from jackals, and only a small part are from wolves. The dog will sell the owner for a piece of meat. And the wolf for the sake of his comrades will consciously take risks and death.
                      1. de_monSher
                        de_monSher 19 July 2013 14: 01
                        0
                        Bestiality and sleeping with bachs is a non-Kazakh occupation. But sartes perceived it normally.



                        Who would doubt that. This is Altai food, not Sartovian.


                        I can not only ride and care, but also carve from start to finish.


                        A clumsy train of thought = in the sense, straightforwardly, like a plot in a dumb American action movie =, complete lack of imagination, playing brutality = attempt to appropriate the brutality of ancestors, and even foreign ancestors, yourself =, the absence of any solid knowledge and most importantly - complete lack of sense of humor... Marek, how do you live? *)))) A normal person in your place would hang himself for a long time ... *)) Okay, argue your opponent, Smiley... He is worthy of you. He also has epic fantasies in his head swarming and multiplying ... *))))
                2. Essenger
                  Essenger 18 July 2013 20: 26
                  +7
                  Quote: de_monSher
                  you can safely delete from your relatives, me, your neighbor, Uzbek ...

                  Cross out the business then. Why do you react so sharply? For example, I’m not particularly interested in whether Uzbeks consider the Kazakhs brothers or not.
                  1. de_monSher
                    de_monSher 18 July 2013 20: 51
                    0
                    Why do you react so sharply?


                    I do not I reactI kidding... A person has a complete mess in his head, because of which he is daydreaming. He divides people according to their gastronomic preferences - if suddenly, his neighbor on the site, a thoroughbred Kazakh, becomes a vegetarian, he will probably kill the first horse he comes across, tie his neighbor to a chair, and start shoving horse meat into his mouth, like - "What are you Kazakh , if you don't eat horse meat! "... *))))

                    And amid pride in the fact that he, Marek, in his life he exhausted a couple of three herds of poor horses, inside his brain, at times, hallucinations are drawn, oh, quote = almost! = - "The former greatness of the Kazakh people. Even our khan, Chipmunk, when in front of his wife's eyes, the cat turned his head , on their wedding night, foresaw that in 300 years women will fall ill with emancipation "... *))))

                    Isn’t that so? *)) Is it really impossible to laugh so softly at the violent fantasies of a fragile mind? *) Why is it that you immediately attribute reflection to me? *)
                    1. Alibekulu
                      Alibekulu 19 July 2013 07: 17
                      +5
                      Erkin Abil is the author of books on the history of Kazakhstan. Now the vice-rector at the Kostanay Pedagogical Institute, told about such an incident that happened during service in the Army .. Somehow two Uzbeks clashed, and one of them threw to the other: - "You are not Uzbek! - I am Uzbek! And you are sart!" am
                      So, something like that .. immediately make a reservation, I do not want to offend anyone, I write that I heard ..
                      And, in general, the Kazakhs had a proverb - "ozbek oz agam, sart sagadam" ... "Uzbek is the elder brother .." always, for myself, they clearly distinguished these 2, say, ethnonyms ..
                      1. de_monSher
                        de_monSher 19 July 2013 21: 07
                        0
                        I understand you, neighbor ... no one wants to offend anyone, it just happened ... *)

                        You understand if you fall into epic fantasies, you can prejudice such things that it’s just a guard ... *) For example, we take and develop several theories that have the right to life.

                        1. The Kazakhs, not the Türks, but just the monastic Mongols. And all at once falls into place. And then Marek’s nonsense, completely justified - yes, his relatives there, somewhere in Japan, China = In Inner Mongolia = etc. ... *)) This is a stone in a garden Mareka... *)
                        2. In reasoning Smiley-a all would be nothing but a few but. As a rule, the Türks always performed allies and not the enemies of the Slavs = Black Klobuki, Pechenegs, Polovtsy, Berendey =, opposed together with the Slavs, Mongols in the east and south, Poles and Lithuanians - not north and west. Not only that, in your princes, Old Russian, often half or three quarters were of Turkic blood ... = the same poor fellow Igor, for example. It was a stone in the Smile garden = ... *)))

                        Yes, we will consider ethnonyms - at the same time, nevertheless, so be it, I will not consider the Kazakhs to be an urethral Mongols.

                        1. Kazakh - is close in sound to the word in the phrase "qoqqan qoziq"= I take the Latin transcription, since it is easier to convey sounds =. Literally, if translated from Uzbek, it means" Lonely column ", it is applied to a person - a renegade, an outcast, a loner. In general, the word Kazakh, among the Türks, is a lumpenized part of the population , expelled to the steppe, for any wrongdoing.

                        2. Sart. Purely Kazakh word. Many researchers believe that it originated from the Türkic phrase "Sary at", "Yellow (Pied) horse" - here, in Central Asia, the prevailing color of horses is just that. It happened simply - the Kazakh renegades made frequent raids on the Turkic cities = of course, everyone wants to eat =. They were tolerated for some time, and then they organized punitive expeditions. To which the Kazakhs started running screaming "Oh, fight! Sary atlar! Sary atlar!" Hence the genetic hatred of the Kazakhs, towards the "Sarts" ... *)

                        Do you understand me, Neighbor? *)) I don’t want to offend anyone, Neighbor ... *) honestly ... just like Marek ... *)) it’s just that Marek, alas and ah, really, has very little knowledge in his head. Only ambition, and fantasies ... *))

                        PS: What I wrote above is nothing more than theories ... the same as those that Marek cites. And I do not claim that these theories are true. Unlike Marek ... *))
                      2. de_monSher
                        de_monSher 19 July 2013 21: 50
                        +1
                        Yes, about the "shitty" attitude of the Kazakhs to the Sarts. Somehow, I fulfilled the contract in the Caspian region. It was necessary to examine a section of the Kazakh steppe, endless ... damn it ... *)) We, together with my colleague from Alma-ata, a Ukrainian, were thrown to the point. In general, as a base for ourselves, we have chosen one Kazakh aul. For days on a flight, we wound kilometers on the speedometer of the "bobby", examined, and in the evenings and nights, the Kazakh brothers fed us for slaughter = you, hospitable people, no one argues =. A week later, I had to get away to Alma-Ata. Here, Aksakal, comes to us, with 6 girls, and grit - "You, Khokhol, so be it, go for yourself, and you, Sart, stay. Choose any of the girls, even all, and live with us ". My colleague, from a fit of laughter, almost burst his stomach, and my jaw almost fell out ... *)) like, 21st century, mid-10s ... with difficulty twisted, like - "Thank you, Father , I will never forget your kindness and trust. But ... first I fly to Alma-Ata, and there it will be seen! "... *))))
                      3. Marek Rozny
                        Marek Rozny 20 July 2013 14: 35
                        +4
                        Quote: de_monSher
                        The Kazakhs, not the Türks, but just the monastic Mongols.

                        Well, who are the Turkic ones? ))))))))))))))) Sarts or what? )))))) Probably, the mighty horse army of Tajiks / Sarts galloped into the Karaganda steppes, crushed the steppe dwellers to smithereens, enslaved them and made them speak Turkic)))))) Or how and who "Turkic" the Kazakhs? Your thoughts?
                        Quote: de_monSher
                        The Kazakhs made frequent raids on the Turkic cities ... They endured them for some time, and then they organized punitive expeditions. To which the Kazakhs, set off on the run screaming "Oh, fight! Sary atlar! Sary atlar!" Hence the genetic hatred of Kazakhs, towards "Sart"

                        uaaaaaaaaahahahahahaha))))))))))))))))))))))))))) I cried ... Introduced a horde of minke whales-Tajiks with ketmen chasing fearful Hordes throughout the steppe)))))) ))) I forgot what the Sart street comedian clowns were called in your region before the revolution? Such a long funny Tajik word)
                        Quote: de_monSher
                        In general, the word Kazakh, among the Türks, is a lumpenized part of the population expelled to the steppe for any misconduct.
                        Gyyyyyyyyyyyyy, again brought to tears))))))) Sarty, you have to go to work on "comedy-tv", you will easily move the Armenians. And it seems to me that you will earn more there than at construction sites and bazaars.
                        A warrior made of sart is like a shell made of foam. One Kyrgyz ten "Uzbeks" will disperse just one swearing. "Yoldashi". Once I looked at the list of the heroes of the Soviet Union from among the Uzbeks, so judging by the photographs, names and biographies, Kazakhs and Kyrgyz were recorded in the "Uzbek" SSS, and there are only a few Sarts. But the Sarts were the first in the region in terms of the number of draft cowards during the war. If you put on a military uniform on an Uzbek, then he will not become a soldier. Sart is sart.

                        Quote: de_monSher
                        Sart ... Many researchers believe that it came from the Türkic phrase "Sary at", "Yellow (Pied) horse"

                        Acad. V. V. Bartold: "The word sart, which the nomads used with undisguised contempt for the sedentary population and which the folk etymology explained as" sary it "(" yellow dog ") ..."
                        Orientalist P. Kuznetsov: “The Tajiks are completely indifferent to their transformation into Sarts, it seems to me, even willingly, because having become Sarts, they get rid of the shameful nickname of slave (kul) given to them by the Turks. Many residents of the villages of Khissarak, Sanginak and Iskent are not for which they did not want to confess to me their Tajik origin precisely because, not to their estate, to call themselves descendants of Tajiks means that they recognized themselves as slaves. "
                        (Proceedings of the Turkestan Department of the Imperial Russian Geographical Society. Vol. 2, issue 2, 1900).

                        In short, if for the Sart (Turkic-speaking Tajik) the Altai is not a relative, then what is it to indignantly climb about? None YOU do not shove Altai peoples as relatives. Your relatives are Tajiks and other effeminate Persians.

                        ZY "Sary at" ... laughing
                      4. de_monSher
                        de_monSher 20 July 2013 14: 41
                        0
                        You see, Marek ... You yourself confirm my words ... each of you has a genetic hatred for us, Uzbeks, which spills out over such trifles. I expressed just a couple of theories, you already have a surge of emotions ... *) You must understand - I am completely neutral towards you. I have nothing to prove, I have a centuries-old history behind me, and a bunch of ancestors who did not destroy the building ... *) You, however, always have to prove something - that you are not a camel, but a "great warrior". That's the whole difference between us - you are notorious for the lack of YOUR history ... *)) that's all ... *))
                      5. de_monSher
                        de_monSher 20 July 2013 14: 55
                        +1
                        You have fantasies ... of course. That is OK. It is inherent in children to fantasize ... *)) It’s a pity of course that you will never grow up and grow wiser, but in general it doesn’t matter ...

                        By the way, my family, without interruption, comes from Sheybani Khan. And I, quite calmly admit that at one time my ancestors came to Central Asia as invaders ... *) BUT this does not change anything. Most importantly, my ancestors fell into this large cauldron, called ethnic genesis of the peoples of Central Asia, and put their hand = and not only hand = into the History of this region. You, the Neighbor, personally you are simply trying to pass off your wild fantasies as reality. Your full right. But the story will not change from this ... *)) Believe me ... *)
                      6. Marek Rozny
                        Marek Rozny 20 July 2013 22: 52
                        +2
                        Quote: de_monSher
                        you have genetic hatred of us, Uzbeks,

                        Hatred of "Uzbeks"? :) 1) You can only hate an equal or stronger opponent. "Uzbeks" are not even a stretch. Not a single Turk considered and does not consider the "Uzbeks" as wars. You are excellent artisans, merchants, farmers. But the phrase "Sart-soldier" evokes a grin from a Kazakh, Kyrgyz or Karakalpak.
                        2) Uzbeks are Turks, descendants of nomads. And you are the Sarts, who in the 20th century gave the name "Uzbek". Open the census of the population of tsarist Russia, see how many real Uzbeks were there before the revolution, how many Sarts and how many Tajiks there were in the territory of present-day Uzbekistan.
                        In 1897 in the Russian Empire there were 968 sarts, Uzbeks - 726 534 person. For example, then it was Kazakhs - 4 084 139 people, Tatars - 3 737 627 human.
                        After just 100 years, there are as many as 30 million "Uzbeks"! Gyyy, even rabbits do not reproduce at such a rate))) Even if we count the sarts + Uzbeks of 1897 together (one and a half million people), the number of "Uzbeks" has increased 20 times in one century (today - 30 million "Uzbeks")! laughing Will you be 100 million in 600 years? lol Is it a shame to remember where so many "Uzbeks" came from? It’s you who hang Russian noodles on the ears that you are Türks, and the Kazakhs understand very well that you are ordinary Tajiks. With all the attendant features of culture and mentality.
                        Quote: de_monSher
                        my family, without interruption, comes from Sheybani Khan.
                        So are you a Sheibanid? It's strange, but historians say that the "Sheibanids" have no blood relation to Sheibani Khan himself laughing Maybe you wanted to say that your ancestors were from Abulhair? But even in this case, sheybanidu especially nothing to brag about - fig shtetl politicians and fig wars. The last sheybanid was Pirmuhammed, who died in 1601.
                        And even if we assume that you personally still have Sheibani or Abulkhair as your ancestors, then what is the point of calling Kazakhs "Turkic Mongols" if it turns out that you yourself are kind of like a "Mongol"? laughing
                        Well, and somehow inconvenient to remind, your "ancestor" Sheibani was defeated in 1509 by the Kazakhs during his campaign to the Kazakh steppe by the troops of Kasym Khan, and the next year he was defeated (and eventually killed) by the Turkic ruler of Persia. And here you fill in about the "punitive campaigns" against the "Kazakh lumpen")))
                      7. de_monSher
                        de_monSher 21 July 2013 01: 40
                        0
                        Well, and somehow inconvenient to remind, your "ancestor" Sheibani was defeated in 1509


                        Fairy tales. In 1509, Sheibani Khan put your Janish, who called himself the Sultan, in the G pose ... and fucked him in full. Moreover, the campaign to your steppes was precisely punitive - they lost too much scent, steppe bandyuts ... *) And if you mean "defeat" from Chipmunk Khan and Kasym, as it were, the Sultan ... So strange, that after this defeat, Sheibini Khan, went to northern Afghanistan = where, by the way, he died, in 1510 =. Strange, isn't it? A man getting punched in the face, goes to beat someone else? So ... I will disappoint you a little. After the beat Dzhanish, Kasym and Chipmunk, simply so to speak, "scattered across the steppe", and the campaign against these two steppe animals was nothing more than unsuccessful - they just scattered, mr-a-z-o-t -a steppe, she did not give a fight ... *)))

                        And about you ... everything is clear with you. We do not want to correct. Well, you just would not be familiar with the story, so you also distort it ... moreover, it’s stupid and inept = Janishe’s defeat from Sheybani, is strictly documented = ... Mdya ... really, a difficult case for you ... you would to the doctor, my friend ... *)
                      8. Marek Rozny
                        Marek Rozny 21 July 2013 18: 55
                        +5
                        Khan Sheibani defeated Sultan Zhanysh, but in the battle with the Sultan (future Kazakh khan) Kasym Sheibani suffered a complete defeat (with the date "1509" I was not mistaken, since historians adhere to two versions - 1509 or 1510).
                        I neighed over your imagination that Sheybani defeated Kasym and Chipmunk)))) Read the primary sources, and not the Uzbek school books:
                        "... After Khorasan, Maverannahr, Turkestan, Tokharistan, Badakhshan, Kandahar, Zabul, Khorezm, Astrabad and [the territory] up to Iraq submitted to Shahbakht-khan (Sheibani - my note), he set out with a huge army for the sake of mastering And when he invaded [the limits of] Dasht-i Kipchak, he sent forward all the army with Timur-sultan and Ubaydallah-sultan, which suddenly came upon Kasim-khan, and he [due to the unexpected attack] did not had the strength to resist and was not able to accept the battle, and his entire headquarters and the entire el-ulus in Ulug-Tag fell into the hands of the sultans. Then, since they [sultans] did not have experience or because they considered the enemy despicable, insignificant and trampled, they indulged in pleasures at the headquarters of Kasim Khan for several days ...

                        In a word, the sultans and beks along with the victorious troops indulged in pleasures because of their carelessness, and when Kasim Khan talked about their carelessness, he sent a small number of people for reconnaissance [of a man] named Moyunsiz-Khasan, and he approached [captured sultans] rate. And when the sultans, who did not put up a guard, were afraid, seeing those small people in the distance, and not paying attention to each other, everyone fled in panic, then not a single person had the courage to confront the enemy. Of course, the enemy was ambushed and many people fell on the battlefield. Kanbar Mirza, who was the senior Bek of Shakhbakht Khan and to whom he gave to the Balkh allies with the localities belonging to him, was killed there, and the arms of the entire army fell into the hands of the Kazakhs.

                        In a miserable situation, the Sultans united with the Shahbakht Khan, and then the enemy came after them and killed many of the prominent [associates of Muhammad Shaibani Khan].

                        In a word, Shahbakht Khan suffered a major defeat, and when [his] dominion reached its climax and the time [of transition] to decline came ... "

                        (ABDALLAH BEN ALI NASRULLAHI [BALKHI], "CREAM CHRONICLES" ("ZUBDAT AL-ASAR")) Written in the period 1520-1540.

                        And here is a modern commentary on this work ("Materials on the history of the Kazakh khanates of the 1969th-XNUMXth centuries. (Extracts from Persian and Turkic works)", N. Mingulov, ed. Science, XNUMX):
                        Abdallah Balkhi talks about the campaign of Muhammad Shaibani Khan against the Kazakhs at the end of the life of this ruler. This campaign took place in 1510 and ended in defeat for the Uzbeks. The date of the campaign should, however, be clarified: perhaps the campaign was undertaken not in 1510, but in 1509. In accordance with the entire Shaibanid historiography, Abdallah Balkhi removes responsibility for the defeat of the Uzbeks from Muhammad Shaibani-khan and transfers it to other persons. Apparently, this was the official version, which, nevertheless, is difficult for a modern researcher to agree: the stampede of the Uzbek army is difficult to explain if you agree with Abdallah Balkhi and other authors that the Shaibanid army rushed to run, only the Kazakh army appeared on the horizon . Indeed, the goal of the Shaybanids was precisely to find and defeat the Kazakh army and rob the Kazakh ulus.


                        Well, and which of us writes nonsense? laughing
                      9. de_monSher
                        de_monSher 21 July 2013 19: 04
                        0
                        khan) Kasym Sheibani suffered a complete defeat (I was not mistaken with the date "1509", since historians adhere to two versions - 1509 or 1510).


                        You have not explained how he, having "suffered defeat" from Chipmunk and other animals, IMMEDIATELY went on a campaign to Afghanistan and even managed to die there? *)) Do you understand what logic is? Causal relationships? *)) Or for you, such concepts do not exist in principle? *)))
                3. KG_patriot_last
                  KG_patriot_last 20 July 2013 22: 59
                  +5
                  We only call our southern Kyrgyz sarts laughing
                  1) For the Kazakhs and Kyrgyz, the Mongols are closer in terms of internal perception of the world than the Uzbeks, this is true and should not be offended. Accordingly, the Mongols themselves consider themselves closer to us than to the Japanese and Chinese.
                  2) The Türks are a very large branch of the RACE (subrace). There is as much difference between a Turk and a Kazakh as between a Kazakh and a German.
                  3) Uzbeks, Uyghurs are very close in spirit to the peoples, and strangely enough Tajiks are very close to them. Accordingly, any Tajik will be closer to the Uzbeks than to the Iranians. Tajiks are the Persian people.
                  4) Azerbaijanis, Turkmens, Turks are peoples even closer to Persians. The Kurds (Persian people), respectively, are also closer to them in culture than for Pashtuns, for example (although Kurds and Pashtuns are Persian peoples)
                  5) And there is a central branch of the Türks: these are Kazakhs and Tatars (Polovtsy, Pechenegs, Kipchaks, Naimans)
                  6) The Kyrgyz are the northern cluster of Turks. We are closest to the northern Türks remaining now in Russia. The Yenisei Kyrgyz were the ancestors of the Kyrgyz, Khakass, Tuvans and Altai. But at the moment, Kazakhs are the most kindred people in culture and language.
                  7) Why didn’t Genghis Khan conquer the Kyrgyz? Yes, because the Tatar-Mongols are we. We are nomads of the steppes. One blood. Uzbeks? They were in Khorezm.
                  8) The Japanese are as far from the Türks as the Indians. Distant relatives. The Mongols are also far from the Japanese, as are the Eskimos. The closest to the Japanese are the Koreans, Chinese, Vietnamese.
          4. Yarbay
            Yarbay 21 July 2013 21: 14
            +3
            Quote: Alibekulu
            sagadam "

            interesting..
            probably sadagam.type victim ??
          5. Alibekulu
            Alibekulu 21 July 2013 21: 51
            +6
            Quote: Yarbay
            probably sadagam.type victim ??

            Yes, right ..
            Moreover, it is interesting that the Türks, many centuries before, had a similar expression in meaning: "there is no Türk without a Tata" .. that is how they called the settled Central Asian farmers ..
            And, in general, among the neighboring peoples, the Kazakhs had a bad reputation .. "C, you can't throw out songs of words .." as they say
  • Viator
    Viator 18 July 2013 02: 41
    +1
    Also an interesting fact: the Chinese also do not distinguish us whites without appropriate practice. "Hairy" from "noses" of some kind (nicknames of the Russians and the French, respectively) - over the five years of my life in different provinces, I was literally just a couple of times recognized as a Russian, 99% believe that all whites are Americans. Well, or the French. Perhaps the Australians, but this is usually the end of the options - all of us, "buy gui", are white devils.
    1. studentmati
      studentmati 18 July 2013 02: 47
      0
      I agree completely!
  • klavyr
    klavyr 23 July 2013 18: 03
    -1
    Quote: Coward
    And by the way, there are very few Japanese tourists in Vladik.

    which once again confirms the reluctance of the Japanese to be in the infected area
  • Alex
    Alex 13 February 2014 23: 07
    +1
    Quote: Coward
    For the sake of curiosity. How did you distinguish between Chinese, Koreans and Japanese?
    I once spent four months in Japan, noticed that they are still different. You can’t describe it in words (here, probably, you need experts in anthropology or drawing up verbal portraits), but if you put a Chinese, a Korean and a Japanese nearby, then with a certain experience you can distinguish them.
  • German
    German 17 July 2013 13: 25
    +5
    one of the Tsar Alexandrov was right saying: Russia has only two allies, the Army and the Navy!
    1. Kasym
      Kasym 17 July 2013 16: 12
      +6
      I just couldn't understand: "Why are the island peoples so" boundless "?"
      In Asia, Japan, in Europe, England. Both those and other "business" have done above the roof. Or due to the fact that they lived separately or due to the fact that there were not enough resources. But the fact is obvious. Both those and others colonized everyone in a row, the blood of the sea poured out - as they say.
      The only difference was that Japan was able to get rid of it as it should, the turn for England was achieved.
      1. Ruslan_F38
        Ruslan_F38 17 July 2013 17: 07
        +3
        The Japanese are real beasts, the massacre in Nanjing is a proven fact, as are the atrocities during World War II! Traditions, respect for elders, education for some reason did not make them people! Oddly enough, time does not cure them.
        1. Revolver
          Revolver 17 July 2013 18: 52
          -2
          Quote: Ruslan_F38
          Tradition, respect for elders, education

          They don't value life, even their own. It just so happened - Japan is a country with very active seismicity, anyone could and can be covered at any moment, and their culture is based on the fact that you need to be ready for death at all times. As far as I remember (though from the English language presentation), the word "mercy" is not included in the Bushido moral complex, as well as humanism in relation to prisoners. As it was said in that presentation, the samurai preferred hara-kiri to captivity, sometimes that, in particular, with the prisoners they could do such that the hara-kiri seemed a slight tickle. Well, and a hypertrophied attitude to honor, as they understand it. Well, the gods are theirs, Shinto, to them as judges.
      2. bomg.77
        bomg.77 17 July 2013 19: 04
        0
        Quote: Kasym
        I just couldn't understand: "Why are the island peoples so" boundless "?"

        it is from a confined space and not only
        Ostravites but also the Highlanders: Chechnya, Dagestan, Tibet, Karabakh
        gurkha (Nepal)
      3. Quiet
        Quiet 18 July 2013 04: 29
        +2
        I just couldn't understand: "Why are the island peoples so" boundless "?"


        "The smaller the island, the more cannibalism", Old New Zealand proverb .... am belay wassat lol good laughing
        1. studentmati
          studentmati 18 July 2013 04: 41
          0
          Law of energy conservation.... am
          1. Quiet
            Quiet 18 July 2013 05: 00
            0
            Law of energy conservation

            Rather, the law of preserving the minimum territory necessary for living. If the space is large, then you can haw everyone who flies and runs on four legs. If a little guzzle their own kind.
            1. studentmati
              studentmati 18 July 2013 05: 06
              +1
              This is the law of conservation of energy.
              1. Quiet
                Quiet 18 July 2013 05: 29
                -1
                Nature does not allow the appearance of energy from nowhere and disappearance to nowhere. Perhaps it turns out only this way: how much one body loses energy, so much else it gains; how much one type of energy decreases, so much is added to another type.

                This is the law of conservation of energy.


                ????? !!!!!! request

                And here is physics if we are talking about something else! ????
                1. studentmati
                  studentmati 18 July 2013 05: 33
                  0
                  There are 50 people running on my island. Suddenly another 20 from the shipwreck appeared. Either will I eat these 20, or will they eat me?
                  Well, what is this if not physics? The law of conservation of matter or energy? Maybe I’m not formulating so?
                2. Quiet
                  Quiet 18 July 2013 08: 03
                  0
                  Maybe I’m not formulating so?

                  Already warmer ...
  • Gladiatir-zlo
    Gladiatir-zlo 17 July 2013 20: 45
    +4
    I agree, it is not in vain that there is an opinion that when the Russians get weaker, the rest go wild "
  • Troitsky
    Troitsky 18 July 2013 00: 15
    0
    Actually, they were engaged) In the USSR, at least there were similar developments. But my info from the documentary, xs true or not.
  • Su24
    Su24 22 July 2013 13: 53
    -2
    what an anti-Japanese propaganda. That is why to publish questionable materials, the site turns yellow.

    But the Japanese are still well done.
  • svp67
    svp67 22 July 2013 17: 40
    0
    Quote: Ruslandeth
    I don't know whether it's a bike or not, but I heard that the spread of encephalitis ticks in the regions of Sibiri and the Far East is the result of the use by the Japanese of the so-called. "biological weapons" - infected carriers (rodents, insects)

    One can only be glad that they did not succeed in ensuring that this "muck" was carried by mosquitoes, and yet they worked very fruitfully in this direction ...
  • Genera
    Genera 17 July 2013 06: 55
    +23
    Yes, they are not of this world. "Tamagotchi" alone took away how many children's lives. I stifle them, not the Kuriles.
    1. RPD
      RPD 17 July 2013 13: 22
      +5
      and their cartoons are diby))
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 17 July 2013 14: 21
        +4
        Quote: RPD
        and their cartoons are diby))

        They have a different worldview. By the way, Soviet cartoons and fairy tales are perceived by Americans as complete crap, which is a shame for ours. They do not fit into our Soviet cartoons. I once read reviews on the American site about the movie "Frost" - for amers it is a wild trash))))
        And we do not understand what they find in the Nicholas’s ugly cartoons.
        Z.Y. I'm also not a fan of Japanese cartoons, although about robots it has always been interesting to see. Somehow I was trying to watch Japanese cartoon porn on an Internet - this is a complete takeaway of the brain.
        1. MakSim51ru
          MakSim51ru 19 July 2013 10: 12
          0
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          By the way, the Soviet cartoons and fairy tales are perceived by the Americans as complete crap, which our, essno, insulting


          How to say. If an adult evaluates cartoons, then maybe yes. Then by the way I remembered the performance of a child psychiatrist. So he said, why should they be surprised that our children are growing up so quickly (in the bad sense of the word). Thanks so to say Disney cartoons.
    2. Scoun
      Scoun 17 July 2013 14: 30
      +3
      Quote: Genera
      Blast them, not the Kuril Islands.

      Personally, I have a negative attitude towards the Japanese .. all of their bushido musido spreads only to the Japanese themselves, as does their Shinto faith ...
      and the fact that they are trying to "forget" the fact that they vytvarit cannibals .. need to poke them .. poke their noses into these facts ... I have already written and will repeat .. this Hollywood inspired romanticism on samurai dukhman but the whole culture and decency of the Japanese only for domestic consumption has been for centuries .. but as they climbed out of the island's borders, the island monkeys went to atrocities.
      1. smile
        smile 17 July 2013 14: 45
        +3
        Scoun
        I agree. The fact. that the Japanese considered everyone else but themselves not quite human ... now, by the way, despite the penetration of Western culture and external decency, little has changed ... their culture is really so different from the European one. which really is the difference, as with aliens ...
      2. Su24
        Su24 23 July 2013 13: 18
        -1
        Quote: Scoun
        Quote: Genera
        Blast them, not the Kuril Islands.

        Personally, I have a negative attitude towards the Japanese .. all of their bushido musido spreads only to the Japanese themselves, as does their Shinto faith ...
        and the fact that they are trying to "forget" the fact that they vytvarit cannibals .. need to poke them .. poke their noses into these facts ... I have already written and will repeat .. this Hollywood inspired romanticism on samurai dukhman but the whole culture and decency of the Japanese only for domestic consumption has been for centuries .. but as they climbed out of the island's borders, the island monkeys went to atrocities.


        Yes, yes, you are right, and we also need to poke into our "totalitarian" past so that we must repent and be ashamed.
  • T80UM1
    T80UM1 17 July 2013 07: 04
    +37
    All this is certainly true, but the Chinese, for example, did this themselves, cut out 1.5 million Dzungars, assimilated the Manchu, the same policy was manifested in relation to Vietnam and Korea. These actions are characteristic of the Far Eastern peoples ... For example, the Mongols when they captured China slaughtered 180 thousand men, when they captured Otrar, for example, they slaughtered all pregnant women, they opened their bellies and killed their babies, when the tamerlan captured India, he built an iramid from 100 thousand Indians, and so on. It is Asia that is dominated by the principle of the strong ... Accordingly, for Russia it is necessary to have a powerful group of troops in the Far East.
    1. Lech from ZATULINKI
      Lech from ZATULINKI 17 July 2013 08: 46
      +18
      yes it is - but the Japanese did it already in the enlightened 20th century in approximately this way it was
      (people’s stomachs are ripped open, they’d see the pleasure of it).
      1. smile
        smile 17 July 2013 14: 49
        +1
        Lech from ZATULINKI
        Still military representatives of Europeans, who were with the Japanese troops during the suppression of the rebellion of boxers. those who had the experience of colonial wars were shocked by the methods of the Japanese ... they unanimously declared that there are NO SUCH soldiers in Europe. By the middle of the 20th century, nothing had changed ....
        1. kavkaz8888
          kavkaz8888 17 July 2013 17: 51
          +1
          Wasn't the boxer uprising in China?
        2. Su24
          Su24 23 July 2013 13: 26
          -1
          Quote: Lech s ZATULINKI
          yes it is - but the Japanese did it already in the enlightened 20th century in approximately the same way it was (people ripped open their bellies, they enjoyed it).



          Quote: smile
          Still military representatives of Europeans, who were with the Japanese troops during the suppression of the rebellion of boxers. those who had the experience of colonial wars were shocked by the methods of the Japanese ... they unanimously declared that there are NO SUCH soldiers in Europe. By the middle of the 20th century, nothing had changed ....


          Indeed, nothing has changed. And the Japanese built Auschwitz. And purposefully gouged out residential areas of cities. Well, Asians, what do you say!
      2. samuraisinto
        samuraisinto 18 July 2013 15: 47
        +1
        this is a photoshop from the langley headquarters of the CIA — they carefully monitor everything here and oblige everyone to hate Japan — and worship the Anglo-Cox — Japan is the only monster that can snarl at the almighty!
      3. INVESTOR
        INVESTOR 19 July 2013 12: 56
        0
        I can imagine what would have happened if the nuclear weapons had appeared first among the Japanese and Germans and not among the mattresses or us ...
    2. Denb
      Denb 17 July 2013 14: 27
      0
      Nonsense! You, my friend, teach the story first! The Manchus were in power for 300 years, the last emperor of Pu Yi died in Beijing on October 17, 1967, how the Chinese assimilated them
      1. T80UM1
        T80UM1 17 July 2013 15: 21
        +2
        Yes there were and then they peacefully became Chinese ... And where are the Manchus now?
      2. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 17 July 2013 15: 46
        +6
        Although the last Chinese emperors were Manchus blood, they have long been Chinese (Han) in essence. And in general, the Manchus plunged into China like children - they conquered, and did not take into account the experience of other steppe neighbors. The Turks, as soon as they realized that living in the giant China they had conquered, threatened with complete assimilation, sent all these "delights" in three letters and went back to the steppe. The Manchus defeated and eventually disappeared as a people. You can't live with the Chinese together. They will stupidly absorb. Read articles about Russian border settlements! They are already Sinicizing with might and main. They learn the language, celebrate home holidays in China, work in China, eat Chinese food and so on. And that's in just 20 years. What will happen to these people in another 20 years if the border is not closed tightly? There are two options: either all the border Russians will be completely Sinified, or the Chinese population across the river must be massacred to get rid of the danger of Sinization. You can be democratic with them, but these are not small numbers of Vainakhs or Dagestanis who will never be able to "occupy" Russia, as many tryndyat here on the site. This is one and a half billion people. How do you assimilate them? No way. And what is the likelihood of assimilation while living in or near China? Almost 100%.
        A hundred years ago, in neighboring Xinjiang (aka "East Turkestan"), the main population was Turkic - Uighurs, Kazakhs, Kyrgyz. Now the Chinese are already half (according to the official Chinese data) and the rate of Chinaization of the region is growing. The Uighurs there make a buch every year, because they see that the Chinese have simply overrun them. And the CCP does not hide its intentions to transfer the "surplus" population from the Chinese regions to the Turkic Xinjiang. In short, at this rate, the Uyghurs will join the list of disappeared peoples. The Russians, kanesh, do not care about some incomprehensible Uighurs, but at least they looked at the situation in the Far East. Even if it will formally be the Russian Federation, it will be terribly flamboyant.
        1. Cyber7
          Cyber7 18 July 2013 00: 39
          +1
          Cleverly noticed.
          For a people that multiplies at such a pace and inferior even to the Japanese in a shootout, assimilation is the most powerful weapon.
          And this is a weapon of mass destruction, since there are many, and our women are so compassionate and loving.
          1. studentmati
            studentmati 18 July 2013 00: 43
            0
            Quote: Cyber7
            and our women are so compassionate and loving.

            Compassionate and loving from the fact that our men are mostly water-loving and from that incapable. But nature requires its own ...
    3. Alibekulu
      Alibekulu 17 July 2013 18: 52
      +4
      Quote: T80UM1
      when they captured Otrar, for example, they cut everyone out,
      In Kazakhstan, in the 90's, the film “The Death of Otrar” (“Shadow of the Conqueror”) was shot. It has an interesting point. Before his execution, the ruler of Otrar Gair-khan asked to spare at least children .. but he was told that if they spare his children, they will cut the throat of my grandchildren ..
      Of course, this is fictional fiction, but very characteristic .. How, to grind, so that you don't get any "Return of the Jedi"
    4. samuraisinto
      samuraisinto 18 July 2013 15: 44
      0
      you have read from where horror movies !? you simply captured them into slavery and worked or changed slaves, who WILL BE killing the horse that feeds you! but the annals about military exploits, to put it mildly, not everything is true ....
  • FC SKIF
    FC SKIF 17 July 2013 07: 38
    +15
    Why do they hate them? View only the photo for the article and everything becomes clear. This is what the idea of ​​exceptionalism, the superiority of one nation over the rest leads to. The same were the fascists of Germany, the Poles in Ukraine, the British in India, the Europeans in America. The list is long.
    1. Quiet
      Quiet 18 July 2013 04: 47
      -1
      The same were the fascists of Germany, the Poles in Ukraine, the British in India, the Europeans in America. The list is long.

      ... Perhaps even all together they smoke enviously aside looking at what the Japanese thought of.
  • Joker
    Joker 17 July 2013 07: 39
    +14
    It all reminds me of something, but it reminds me of all Nazi Germany, the methods are the same, the Germans also built "rest houses", but the civilian population was destroyed.
    1. Lech from ZATULINKI
      Lech from ZATULINKI 17 July 2013 08: 34
      +7
      and this entertainment of the samurai army is a typical picture for them
    2. RPD
      RPD 17 July 2013 13: 23
      +4
      Hitler to justify the alliance with the Yapi called Yapi Asian Aryans
      1. Essenger
        Essenger 17 July 2013 17: 41
        +7
        yes yes "honorary Aryans".
  • Yura
    Yura 17 July 2013 07: 55
    +14
    Samsonov Alexander, an article plus, plus, plus, an article on all Japanese resources urgently, these people have already forgotten who they really are, they are cannibals, and if you give them free rein everything will happen again. The moral of the Japanese is she only for him. Japanese duplicity is the basis of its morality.
    1. Lech from ZATULINKI
      Lech from ZATULINKI 17 July 2013 08: 41
      +6
      deftly bastard chopped off the head of a samurai man in one word
      1. Yura
        Yura 17 July 2013 09: 16
        +11
        Quote: Lech s ZATULINKI
        deftly bastard chopped off the head of a samurai man in one word

        Here it is a manifestation of Japanese morality, to kill people the skill elevated to the rank of art. The killing of their own kind is unnatural, but here this competition is perfect.
        1. T80UM1
          T80UM1 17 July 2013 09: 32
          +3
          Well, considering that their sword was accepted after the sword pierced 3 bodies folded together or after cutting off the head with one blow ... They even have death in battle is considered the highest death ...
        2. Scoun
          Scoun 17 July 2013 14: 36
          +2
          Quote: Jura
          Here it is a manifestation of Japanese morality

          all Japanese morality was for centuries only for domestic consumption, as was their Shinto belief ...
          their faith is essentially similar to *********
    2. Mikhail3
      Mikhail3 17 July 2013 13: 51
      +1
      You are wrong, the Japanese are not duplicitous at all. They all remember this, know about themselves and are not at all ashamed. Watch their feature films carefully. As a source of information, they are, of course, useless. And it is absolutely invaluable if you need to understand the national character, identify patterns of behavior and, accordingly, what ideals do those people who make films and those for whom they make. Carefully note how the Japanese imagine a warrior. What should be the ruler ....
      1. Papakiko
        Papakiko 17 July 2013 14: 56
        +3
        Quote: Mikhail3
        You are wrong, the Japanese are not duplicitous at all. They all remember this, know about themselves and are not at all ashamed. Watch their feature films carefully.

        I fall into complete "Euphoria" from such inferences.
        Why don't you fall into ecstasy from the creations of our "GROSPAPA" in the person of Mikhalkov? Great movie about the Great War, etc.
        Quote: Mikhail3
        They all remember it

        Quote: Mikhail3
        and not at all ashamed

        Quote: Mikhail3
        the Japanese are not duplicitous at all

        Did you study at MGIMO or do most of your relatives live in japonia?
        Foul, corrupt, notorious people.
        Only notorious and insignificant individuals try to rise due to the humiliation of others.
        Quote: dejavu
        I don’t know why, but I have a strong rejection of the Japanese. They are certainly hardworking, bold blah blah blah, brave and so on, but something bad is constantly scraped in the soul when I think about them. Maybe their permanent complexes regarding island life and small genitals made them what they are, but what they have never evoked admiration or warmth in the soul. Like robots, closed and impenetrable. In the war, cruel and crazy

        Well, Komrad described correctly.
        1. Vodrak
          Vodrak 17 July 2013 18: 51
          +2
          In Kazakh, Japan sounds like Japonia, and rightly so
        2. Yarbay
          Yarbay 18 July 2013 07: 32
          +1
          Quote: Papakiko
          Only notorious and insignificant individuals try to rise due to the humiliation of others.

          More than agree!
      2. smile
        smile 17 July 2013 15: 02
        +1
        Mikhail3
        We just have different opinions about the concept of "duplicity" ... if your proposal (no matter what - business or indecent - a decent Japanese woman :))))) you answer "thank you, I will definitely think about such an interesting proposal and perhaps agree "- it means" no ". if they answer you" thank you. sorry. I am not ready to answer now. I will consider your proposal and inform you of my decision later. " it means "NO !!!! Get out of the way, zass ... c" ... :)))
        Naturally, I mean those who are older - after 25 years.
        Therefore, they are sincerely surprised by our stupidity and sincerely offended when they are accused of duplicity ... Dullness is attributed to our usual inferiority ... :)))
        1. Mikhail3
          Mikhail3 17 July 2013 17: 31
          0
          You are right, we have different concepts of duplicity. Look, you have formalized the concepts by which you can determine what exactly you were told. That is, did the Japanese cheat? Not at all, she expressed her answer very frankly, simply in her manner. So she, you know, is not obliged to learn our method, she is not a smolyanka, she is Japanese!
          And her indignation at the stupidity of the bulls, who do not bother to learn anything about the way other people communicate, is quite justified.
          Actually, it’s a blind belief that everyone should speak his language, think like him, want the same as him, etc. etc. used to be mainly American. And the Russians always respected the culture of other nations and tried to understand it ... well, before, yes. Then they were lazy ...
          Papakiko and you re-read my post one more time. As for ecstasy ... I don’t smoke, I don’t smell, I don’t chew and I don’t inject. Without ecstasy, the brains are clearer, I advise you too. Actually, I Japanese, how to say it ... I have very little respect. Generally I do not respect, to be honest. But this is not a reason at all not to try to understand them, if only because they are dangerous.
          Again. It's one thing when our pimple released a movie that no one began to watch. And it’s completely different when you see in dozens and hundreds of films over and over again ... You know, I regularly watch Euronews. And the bourgeois cinema, and cartoons ... it’s not what interests them that interests me there at all. Rather, this too. Looking at the fact that they are trying to hammer you in the head with a sledgehammer, you can understand a lot about beaters.
          And much more can be determined that which they themselves have overlooked. Look, Americans, they are confidently fighting the Chinese for the place of the worst soldiers in the world. So right away you can’t determine which of these peoples will take the prize in the competition for the title of the first pisser. And who is the first media hero of the Americans (after Mickey Mouse, of course wink )? And this is Superman! I am convinced that they traded this guy for decades simply in the desire to cut the dough. What happened? But it turned out that ordinary Americanos sits and writes in any unusual situation. And why? Because they explained to him from the Holozad detsva, there is no superpower - sit and do not rock the boat! And then you will be a corpse, like a horde of cops from these films. Equipped, armed, courageously rushing into battle ... absolutely useless corpses that can do nothing.
          1. Papakiko
            Papakiko 18 July 2013 16: 35
            -1
            Quote: Mikhail3
            As for ecstasy ... I do not smoke, I do not smell, I do not chew and I do not inject

            "Wheels" missed and it is possible, in extreme cases, vodka enemas (or others). wink laughing
            They started about the Japonians and ended up with a mattress.
            What is it for?
    3. albert
      albert 17 July 2013 22: 26
      +2
      Yes, and it is useful for us to recall the Japanese intervention in the Far East, during the civil war, the death of Lazo and Sibirtsev plus the punitive expeditions of the Japanese against partisans in the Amur region.
  • Dejavu
    Dejavu 17 July 2013 08: 23
    +17
    I don’t know why, but I have a strong rejection of the Japanese. They are certainly hardworking, bold blah blah blah, brave and so on, but something bad is constantly scraped in the soul when I think about them. Maybe their permanent complexes regarding island life and small genitals made them what they are, but what they have never evoked admiration or warmth in the soul. Like robots, closed and impenetrable. In war, cruel and crazy.
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 17 July 2013 10: 24
      +9
      Excessive cruelty in war is characteristic of all Altai peoples (steppe Turks, Mongols, Manchus, Japanese, Hungarians). In peacetime they are very friendly, hospitable, sincere people. But if there is a war, they will destroy the enemy totally. Without any reflection. And they will not feel guilty - "this is war!"
      And I will sincerely wonder after the war why they are offended. The ancestors of the Altai peoples from ancient times lived in the neighborhood of China, and they did not come up with any other way to limit the mobilization capabilities of this enemy, except to massacre them. Any "non-brutal" conquest of China leads to only one result - 100% absorption of the conquerors by the Chinese nation. Therefore, the "Altaians" from ancient times are accustomed to the fact that in a war it is necessary to genocide the enemy.
      And although for a long time the Hungarian did not look like a Japanese, military traditions, incl. associated with the extermination of the conquered population, they are preserved in their cultures.
      Kazakhs are absolutely non-military in peacetime; in the event of a military conflict, they also often resorted to the policy of genocide. My fellow countryman TM has already mentioned here how the rather big Dzungar ethnos was "liquidated" - but not only the Manchus tried there, the Kazakhs, for their part, drenched the Dzungar steppe with blood, and completely assimilated the children and women. That is why our East Kazakhstan Kazakhs are distinguished by a strongly pronounced "Mongolism" in appearance. Modern Kalmyks are a tiny surviving part of the Dzungarian people. When the Kalmyk people decided to return to Dzungaria from the recently populated Volga, the Kazakhs killed almost all of them on the way, since they considered them the same Dzungars with whom they waged a war of total destruction.
      In 1916, when the arbitrariness of the tsarist government in Kazakhstan reached its zenith (forcibly took the land from the Kazakhs and handed over to Russian settlers-Stolypin), Kazakhs without weapons (Kazakhs were forbidden to have weapons) launched the largest (in territory) uprising in the Russian Empire. They killed both tsarist officials, and Cossacks, and soldiers, and unfortunate settlers. In turn, the royal punishers also did not particularly stand on ceremony with the Kazakhs. As a result, the entire Kazakh steppe was covered in blood - both Russian, and Kazakh, and guilty, and innocent. There was no mercy for anyone - be it a rebel, be it aul grandmother, be it a royal Cossack, be it a nude peasant who had just arrived from Ukraine. Only after the overthrow of the tsarist government (and the actual stoppage of the resettlement of Russian peasants and the de facto cancellation of the decree on mobilizing the Kazakhs for rear work on the WWI fronts) did the Kazakhs calm down.
      Of course, from the point of view of modern morality - the killing of civilians during the war is monstrous. However, at the same time, it should be noted that there is another perception by the "Altaians" of the factor when genocide is carried out against them. After the war, the "Altaians" have no claims against the enemy, who committed inhuman or treacherous methods. The Japanese, the Kazakhs, the Hungarians, and the Mongols could also remember a lot of the immoral done by their opponents, but they prefer not to wave their fists after the fight. The Hungarian uprising against the Austrians in tsarist times was defeated by the Russian army, the Japanese do not make "gesheft" on the topic of nuclear bombings, the Turkestanis do not reanimate old sores (unlike other neighbors from Ukraine, the Caucasus, the Baltic states) that happened in the bad years of the tsarist / Soviet authorities. What was - what was. You can't forget, but you can't get hung up on it either.
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 17 July 2013 10: 27
        0
        I communicate well with the Japanese, there are close friends. Reliable and companionable. Much makes me envy white, in many issues Kazakhs still need to learn from them. We discussed the topic of the Japanese-Chinese wars with them many times. There was not a shadow of regret either among the Japanese or the Kazakhs during these conversations. Under the Europeans, we never touched on this topic, so as not to jar the Europeans (they are used to genocide in a different way - in "peacetime"). And when we remained purely Kazakh-Japanese companies, we talked about this topic (and generally with regard to China) without hesitation. The Japanese strongly, very much differ from the Kazakhs in mentality. But when we talk about war - the feeling that we are one nation. Even in conversation with Russians, whom I consider to be really historical friends / partners and even relativesthere is no such absolute unanimity in military matters; I feel different mentality when military / historical topics are discussed. Although many Russians are still "Altaians")))) Apparently, some Russians really have a lot of "Tatar" blood)
        1. Bezarius
          Bezarius 17 July 2013 12: 22
          +6
          According to genetic research, we don’t have any Tatar blood.
          1. Igarr
            Igarr 17 July 2013 13: 13
            +2
            Marek, burst my eyes ... hello.
            Probably, because my father was born in Aleisk, it means that I'm part of it - an Altai .. my attitude to all these horrors is exactly Altai.
            And why is fuss?
            Due to the fact that not everyone was brought to a "common denominator".
            That destroyed ALL in the city of Kalamba, in the Philippines - and so what? Anyone say what?
            This city saw the name for the first time.
            Always interferes - unfinished. Well, there is not a single nation on Earth that could boast that everything is always brought to an end.
            Even arrogant Saxons, what unprincipled bastards are, are incapable. 200 million Indians were destroyed, and 4 million were abandoned. (Or how many Indians are there now?).
            Well, they would have left Johnny Depp - the actor is good, okay. Half Indian. And that’s enough.
            But after all the rest - for what left? For the whole world to poke a finger - ha, Americans, they’re not able to do a damn thing. Even the Indians were not destroyed. And they are swaying at world domination.
            The Chinese ... the Dzungars were ruined, ruined ... but is Kirsan Ilyumzhinov sooner or later, but he will remember that. And he will be right.
            Germans .... oh-oh-oh-oh, Germans ... with their "final decision." Not only were they hung there (in Nuremberg) like lamb carcasses, but by the neck, so they still PAY - to the failed final decision.
            .
            So ... took up the tug - do not say that not a dozen.
            Or don't mess at all.
            ...
            For people, people ... with a life span of a maximum of 100 years - fear death? Nonsense.
            As long as I am, there is no death. And when there is death, there is no me.
            Just.
          2. smile
            smile 17 July 2013 15: 31
            0
            Bezarius
            Really - not at all. The tale was invented by the propaganda of Europeans 25 years ago. in order to justify his attitude towards us as savages ... later taken by our tilition ...
            In general, Marek’s attempt to cling to the Japanese was amused ... for whom, to whom, and to the Chinese and Koreans they will be closer, thousands of years have passed ... interestingly, no one thinks what genes you play will bring up the upbringing ? If Marek says that Kazakhs like to commit atrocities (I personally disagree with this), then it’s not the genes that are guilty, but the mentality education ... everything else is an attempt to justify itself ... and unsuccessful.
            .... I also liked his attempt to screw a very famous episode here, when the rebellious Kazakhs really destroyed the helpless civilians of the Cossack villages and immigrants, whose male population was drafted into the army, and there were practically no troops there and the resettlement was suspended due to that. that the war is going on, not to that, and both women and old people would not be able to cope with the resettlement .... the guys just took the opportunity that turned up .....
            the excuse is an incomparable tradition among them ... did not forget to say about the grandmother in the aul, but also did not forget to replace women and children in Cossack villages and peasant villages with Kazakov and peasants ... what a funny tolerance it turns out :))) ... yes, murderers, rapists, robbers and looters were punished rather harshly, I agree with that .... but similar attempts, under the guise of tolerance, to push through their usual nationalist version of the Russian invaders and colonialists ... everything, as always ... even in the subject of Japanese, some Kazakhs will surely remind themselves ... of our entsev 90s still kick forget ... :))))
            And I also communicate with the Japanese ... Japanese girlfriend ... with respect to the Japanese, Marek is right. in everything.
            1. smile
              smile 17 July 2013 16: 33
              0
              smile
              Amendment. In the first line of my comment, I meant 250 years, not 25
            2. Marek Rozny
              Marek Rozny 18 July 2013 19: 33
              +2
              Quote: smile
              In general, Marek’s attempt to cling to the Japanese was amused.

              Cling to? I immediately said that our mentality is completely different. Only in terms of military psychology, the natives of Altai - the Japanese, Turks, Mongols, Hungarians - are the same.
              Quote: smile
              the rebellious Kazakhs did indeed destroy the helpless civilian population of the Cossack villages and migrants, whose male population was drafted into the army, and there were practically no troops there and the resettlement was suspended due to that. that the war is going on, not to that, and both women and old people would not be able to cope with the resettlement .... the guys just took the opportunity that turned up .....

              Hello, we arrived, and who destroyed the Kazakh villages and received awards for this? And who wrote the winning broadcasts with the mention of machine guns and guns - rural women with children? Or are these trophies taken from the Kazakhs? It is not necessary to pretend that there were only peaceful Slavs in the Kazakh steppe, there was always above the roof of the Cossacks and soldiers. And during the suppression of the uprising - also punitive detachments with artillery. And the first blood was Muslim - it all started after the police shot the protesters against mobilization on July 4, 1916. After all, this was a violation of the treaties by which the Central Asians became part of Russia. After that, porridge began. So do not expose that it was the Muslims who first shed blood. From the Russian provinces sent a punitive corps of 30 thousand soldiers armed with machine guns and guns. And this despite the fact that there were also local troops on the territory.
              And if the Russians were killed 3-4 thousand, then the number of killed Central Asians is determined by tens of times more. The Kazakhs did not have small arms at all, except for the antediluvian homemade kara-multuk. Let me remind you that since the 18th century it was forbidden to Russian merchants to sell even axes and knives to Turkestans. And even with such a poorly armed but massive uprising, the tsarist army was never able to cope. And let me remind you that the regional commanders Folbaum and Kuropatkin (the same "hero" of the Russian-Japanese war) armed the Russian civilian population with small arms. Russian peasant settlers were not angels, they were willingly the first to attack the Asians (Folbaum allowed) and plundered the property of the Kazakhs and Kyrgyz. Even merchants at fairs were killed to grab the merchants' property. The documents of that era are over the roof. These are not events of the 14th century, but events that have not yet hit a hundred years.
              1. Marek Rozny
                Marek Rozny 18 July 2013 19: 34
                +1
                The consequences were such that even in the first decades of Soviet power, Turkestans were considered unreliable, they were practically not drafted into the army (until the end of the 30s), and many Bolshevik leaders of the region openly said that Kazakhs needed to be physically exterminated. And this is already in the years of Soviet power! After all, the Kazakhs reacted indifferently to the Russian revolution and did not take a special part in the civil war. And the entire political elite of Kazakhstan (Baitursynov, Shokai, Baymenov, etc.) generally stood on the fact that Kazakhstan should take the democratic footing, and not the communist ones. Simple Kazakhs did not distinguish between white and red, this was perceived as a purely Russian showdown. Only a small part of the Kazakhs, led by Imanov (the one who was one of the main leaders of the anti-royal uprising) supported the Bolsheviks, and a small part of the Kazakhs were among the Dutovites and Annenkovites (the Dutov and Annenkov were simply pretty to the Kazakhs as people who knew the Kazakh culture and language perfectly. In addition, Dutov believed that Kazakhs should have autonomy, which distinguished him from other White Guards). This is for the Kazakhs-normal Russians. And the Stolypin settlers, officials and soldiers were strangers. And if the Kazakh Cossacks would not shoot at the Kazakhs by order, then the Kazakhs would not touch them.
                Well, and finally:
                From the telegrams of the military governor of Folbaum, dated August 14, 1916, Verny:
                "Immediately move from Andijan another 8 companies with artillery and cavalry to the Przhevalsk district and from Tashkent call at least 8 companies with artillery to Verny for an operation in the direction of Zharkent and Przhevalsk."
                "Consider the smallest groups of Kazakhs in heaps already for rebellion, suppress such, cause panic on these volosts, at the first sign of unrest arrest at least minor leaders, hand them over to the field court and immediately hang ... Well, catch one of the suspects and hang them for example."
        2. Hort
          Hort 17 July 2013 14: 36
          +1
          it is not Tatar blood that matters. Remember the wars of the Scandinavians and the ancient Rus (and other Slavs). Almost the same attitude towards war and death as the Japanese. Of course, the matter practically did not reach the outrageous cruelty (with rare exceptions), but "genocide" too, no, no - the settlement or town was cut out and burned almost completely, including livestock
          1. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny 17 July 2013 15: 04
            0
            Hort, there is a significant difference. the Scandinavians and the ancient Slavs had separate military castes / estates / squads. the rest of their relatives had nothing to do with military craft. and the mentality of war is different from the mentality of a fisherman or a plowman. among the Turks, Mongols, Japanese, every boy / youth / man must be a war. why did the Altai peoples smash giant China in all wars? because most of the Chinese are farmers, artisans, merchants. and the Turks, Mongols, Japanese - first of all a soldier, and then a blacksmith or a shepherd.
            The Scandinavians and Slavs were not a total nation of warriors. Therefore, the psychology of a German-Slavic warrior cannot be personified with the mentality of a German-Slavic civilian. Yes, the Germans praised death in battle, only most of the Germans were not engaged in military affairs (I mean the era of Christianization and later. Before Christianization, they were of course a warlike nation). It's hard to say about the attitude of the Slavs to the war. There are no good ancient sources. In ancient times, the Türks, Mongols and Tungus were constantly described by the Chinese in their annals (and there was also a Türkic written language), and as regards the history of the Eastern Slavs, there are a lot of white spots until the 9th century. But even from the 9th century, we can say for sure that the Eastern Slavs were not some kind of special warlike nation (with the exception of the small professional princely squads). That is why the Rurikovichs had to hire all the time and "Varangian" (North German) warriors and Turkic nomads, who were all accustomed to weapons and a military lifestyle from childhood. But here pay attention, the Türks were hired by clans / tribes, and the "Varangians" (waering) are not just "Germans" or "Scandinavians", this is precisely the military estate among the northern Germans. Once the Germans were really a nation of warriors, and then, after Christianization, the military people separated from other tribesmen.
            The Japanese have an interesting ethnogenesis. They, like many peoples, were formed on the basis of several. If I understand correctly, pure Japanese were engaged in military service until the 20th century. But all sorts of assimilated Ainu and other aborigines were "eternal peasants" who worked for the alien Japanese (real Japanese came from Altai to the islands already inhabited by other peoples). There are a lot of works on why the Japanese were rigidly divided into samurai / shoguns and other "white bones" and weak-willed peasants who were even afraid of a fly. It reminds of the situation in India, where brahmanas are the descendants of conquerors.
            1. smile
              smile 17 July 2013 16: 31
              +3
              Marek Rozny
              Forgive me, I could not bear it .... why then did the Russian farmers (the caste of warriors could not be significant) smashed the Horde to smithereens? Is it because the Russian peasants are more capable of fighting than born warriors? :)))
              Why did we calm down the Khazars, Pechenegs and Polovtsians ... or do you think that our soldiers were equal in fighting qualities to dozens of "natural-born warriors"? You know that the Horde was crushed before and after the Battle of Kulikovo ... and in terms of population and resources, the Russians were many times inferior to their comrades Tatar-Mongols (I will call them that, can I?)
              In your words, in this case, there is a grain of truth ... but alas, you are mistaken in relation to Russians ... I wonder why only in relation to Russians? :)))
              1. Marek Rozny
                Marek Rozny 17 July 2013 17: 27
                +1
                Quote: smile
                why then did the Russian farmers smash the Horde to smithereens?

                What battle is this? In what war did the Russians defeat the Horde? The horde itself fell apart due to the separatism of the Genghisides. If you mean the Battle of Kulikovo, then kagbe is not a good example, given that Mamai was an enemy of the Horde, and his troops included Ryazans and Genoese, and others. And even the defeat of Mamaev’s ratification did not absolutely affect the situation. Russia was still under the rule of Genghisides for another hundred years.

                Quote: smile
                Pochemts our calmed Khazars, Pechenegs and Polovtsy

                The Khazars were defeated by the Polovtsy (Kipchaks). Rurikovich inflicted the penultimate blow to Khazaria, after it was gouged by the Oghuz Turks (ancestors of the Turkmens and Turks). But even after the blow of Prince Svyatoslav Khazaria, it still existed, until it finally dissolved as a state in other Turkic states.
                The Pechenegs were also gouged by the Kipchaks-Polovtsians. The remnants became berendeys ("berindi" in Turkic - "traitors"), i.e. for the money they became lifelong mercenaries of the Russian princes. Yes, there was a victory of Yaroslav over the Pechenegs, but apparently, it was a small Pechenezh sortie to Kiev, because For a long time the Pechenegs were a serious military force, until the Kipchaks ruined them.
                And finally, the Kipchaks-Polovtsians themselves. There are isolated moments when the Russians beat small detachments of the Polovtsians, but on the whole there were no "crushing" victories. Generally. By and large, the Polovtsi lost only to the Chingizids. And even then we must take into account that most of the Kipchaks served not Kotyan, but Genghis Khan even before Kalka. The Polovtsi are still alive and well. For example, the current Minister of Defense of Kazakhstan, Adilbek Zhaksybekov, is a Kipchak.
                Most often, Russian princes used Turkic nomads as mercenaries on both sides at the same time. One prince had, for example, Polovtsians, another prince had Pechenegs or Varangians. In any case, this is considered the Russian victory of the Russian prince))) You carefully look at all these feuds, you will see something like: "Yaroslav hired two detachments of Varangian mercenaries, and in response Svyatopolk hired Pechenegs ..." And the result of the battle can be twisted as you like, "the Russians defeated the Pechenegs" or "the Russians defeated the Vikings", but what? The victorious prince will love the Russian laughing
                When they recall how Svyatoslav gouged the Khazars, they do not remember that he did this with the help of the Oghuz)))
                1. Marek Rozny
                  Marek Rozny 17 July 2013 17: 28
                  +1
                  Quote: smile
                  You know that the Horde were smashed before the Battle of Kulikovo and after ...

                  Name these major victories and explain why, for almost 300 years, Russia was still under the rule of the steppes?
                  Quote: smile
                  Moreover, in terms of population and resources, the Russians were many times inferior to the comrades of the Tatar-Mongols
                  Hello ... why on earth did the Horde suddenly have more Russians? even if you count all the steppe inhabitants from Mongolia, China, Central Asia, Siberia and the steppes of present-day Russia and Ukraine, then even then confirmation of your words will not work. And what resources do you mean? What did the Horde drag with them in carts, conquering Russia?

                  Quote: smile
                  you are mistaken in relation to Russians ... I wonder why only in relation to Russians?
                  because you are Russian, and it is simply unpleasant for you that someone is stronger than you in military terms. After all, the Russians believe that they are invincible, that no one defeated them, well, and if they did, then it was somehow "dishonest." From this comes the rejection of my posts. It is easier for the Russians to imagine that there was no yoke, that the defeat in the Russian-Japanese war is an English meanness, and they prefer to completely ignore the unsuccessful Russian-Turkish wars. Well, or to consider that those wars were insignificant, and when the Russians won, they were important wars. That's all.
                  1. Rider
                    Rider 17 July 2013 18: 35
                    0
                    for marek rozny


                    Since we’ve gotten up to history, here in general volumes can be written about all the absurdities that are studied in schools and universities as postulates of this science. Here - inexhaustibly! We will touch only on some.
                    There are warrior nations whose military skill and courage must be envied by all other nations. Boys in these nations from childhood have always been brought up like warriors. Military art and personal courage have always been considered among these peoples the main virtue of men.
                    But ...
                    Some time ago, the people of the earth somehow abruptly began to live according to the principle of "all against all". This is how it suddenly happened in history. Instantly the unions of tribes broke up, the peoples began to move to new places to conquer living space, and there was no peace anywhere. Everyone killed foreigners. This was the only way to survive. Peace was not simply "not there", it could not even exist - all decent lands were inhabited, and it was possible to take them under oneself only by destroying the locals. Europe went crazy, and everything was simple and without a doubt, like any madman: if you met a stranger, kill him, or he will kill you. The one who killed more and was killed less received more land and more opportunities to increase in numbers. Each tribe was waiting for assassins on all sides, and it was itself a killer for everyone. It was clear to everyone: the more territory, the larger the tribe will be and the more guarantees that the tribe will survive. The one who fights better will have more land. Whoever has better warriors will get more chances. Well, how then did it happen that the peoples, whose cult was always war and plunder, were pushed aside by peoples who were more fond of peasantry and handicraft, into a narrow strip of the barren Scandinavian Peninsula, driven into the deserts of North Africa and into the lifeless steppes of Asia, trapped in the gorges of Scotland , Caucasus, Pyrenees, etc.?
                    Who, then, are the warrior nations? Those who like to fight, or those who win the war, cursing the war itself?
                    Here are conversations about the Mongol-Tatar yoke - this is really a masterpiece! For example, the Arabs in Spain were (we repeat - they were!) For EIGHT HUNDRED YEARS! As a result, the Spaniards are a little dark, and in Spanish architecture, music, topography - everywhere the Arabic sticks out. But no one ever talks about the "Arab eight-century yoke"! But some eastern robbers rushed to Russia for a hundred and fifty years (!), Burnt cities and villages, took tribute and went back somewhere to their steppes, while Russia increased its territory, built cities and fortresses, beat the German knights, and to the Tatar khans for loyal service to the Russian tsar (during the so-called "yoke"!) she distributed settlements (for example, the city of Kasimov, granted at one time to the Tatar khan Kasim for some services to the Russian court). At the same time, there is nothing Tatar or Mongolian in Russian culture, and in appearance, Russians are pure Europeans! Here's the funniest part! Gather at least a hundred Russians - among them there are neither high-cheekbones nor slanting eyes, if they did not mix with the Volga peoples (Mari, Chuvash, etc.). In general, Mongolian or Turkic blood always wins over European, and according to Mendel's law, hereditary traits are transmitted from generation to generation without being exterminated. And now we will ask the same hundred Russians - did you know that the Mongols and Tatars poured almost a third of their blood into your blood, indulging in your great-great-great-grandmothers? And all a hundred will answer - of course we know! And if you ask them then - where are these Mongoloid and Turkic signs that do not disappear in generations? And nowhere! But what have Mendel, heredity, and the European kind of Russians to do with it when there was a "yoke"! Try to ask at least the above questions about the "yoke" of historians, how they will immediately consider you just a dropout and will not even seriously oppose you. The yoke is a historical axiom.
                    1. Marek Rozny
                      Marek Rozny 20 July 2013 14: 56
                      +2
                      Rider, answering your message is a dead number. You need to rediscover history books. Thugs of all sorts of Fomenko and other alternatives to comment not hunting. Already a thousand times on this subject I wrote.
                      I understand perfectly well that the Russians are offended that some "Tatar-Mongols" (and those who understand the topic understand that these are the direct ancestors of Kazakhs, Bashkirs, Nogays, and not Kazan Tatars or Mongols of Mongolia), but this is not means that this has not happened in the history of Russia. Tomorrow they will write a book that the Russian army defeated Japan in the Russian-Japanese war, and all these years the truth was hidden by evil Jews, Germans, Anglo-Saxons and Martians.
                      I myself in the 90s read books about the fact that the British descended from the Kazakhs, and that the entire glorious Kazakh history was hidden by the "conspirators".
                      And where are the descendants of the Turkic conquerors in the Russian people? Yes, everywhere)))) Personally, I noticed them even when the program "While I was watching everything at home" with Timur Kizyakov and Andrey Bakhmetyev))))
                  2. Essenger
                    Essenger 18 July 2013 02: 30
                    +3
                    Quote: Marek Rozny
                    because you are Russian, and it’s just not pleasant for you that someone is stronger than you


                    The truth is easier to accept when it is on your side)))
                  3. smile
                    smile 18 July 2013 11: 49
                    +2
                    Marek Rozny

                    Battle of Vozha, 1365 Prince Togai attacked Pereyaslavl Ryazan, burned it, but on the way back he was overtaken by Ryazan Prince Oleg and defeated. In 1367, another khan Pulat-Temir attacked the Nizhny Novgorod possessions, but was repulsed by the local prince Dmitry Konstantinovich. From 1360 to 1375, the ushkuiniks made eight large campaigns on the Middle Volga, not counting small raids. So, in 1374, for the third time they took the city of Bolgar (not far from Kazan), then moved down the river and burst into Sarai - the capital of the great khan.
                    The yoke was in stigma with that. with which the Horde-internecine strife collapsed. But you, recognizing the second, do not notice the first ... intentionally. How so?

                    The territory controlled by the Horde was probably no smaller than the Roman Empire. All peoples participated in the campaigns of the Tatars. Everyone was there. For example, Russian regiments participated in some Mongolian Chinese campaigns. Khubilai’s army included both Koreans and Chinese. In addition, when establishing the yoke, Rus was fragmented. Sometimes the Prince did not love his neighbor more than the nomads. With which previously completely coped. Nobody knew. How many of them and how dangerous they are. When they found out, it was too late. The matter was further complicated by that. That at that time the Russians did not yet recognize themselves as a single nation. About the strength ... well, do not anger Allah. As far back as the 16th century, there were fewer Russians than Poles and French ... Why, by the way, didn’t they count Central Asia? Or do you think that the Tatars at Batu were crushed by the strongest European armies of countries (whose population exceeded Russia by several times) just like that? Thank you for counting Siberia, which the Tatars also captured before this .... :))))
                    Resources, I mean the population of conquered ulusniki, regularly supplying conquerors with warriors in the form of duties and simply wanting to join a predatory campaign, cattle, weapons, the presence of gold. Without which it was difficult to do in wars even then ... Tell me more. Why don’t you know that. :)))) And if you know, then why are you wonderingly surprised?

                    In principle, I believe that we are invincible. Destroyable. but invincible. Yes, we had temporary defeats. Especially if the enemy was strong, such as the Ottomans, before whom Europe was in awe ... But we, unlike you, buried all the shockers of the universes that came to us.
                    But you miss that we begin to talk about it precisely when petty nationalists like you begin to lie ... moreover, judging by the fact that you are a competent person, lying intentionally. But this is insulting. So you have to poke. What are you yourself compared to us - nobody ... what? Unpleasant? But it's true! :))) At the same time, I somehow know that it’s impossible to say this ... but you don’t know what to say about us the way you don’t .... This is the whole difference between us .... here I personally ONLY answer you .... if I see your next run over to us ..... always .... caught the difference
                2. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 17 July 2013 17: 37
                  +2
                  Quote: Marek Rozny
                  What battle is this? In what war did the Russians defeat the Horde?

                  In the Battle of Blue Waters. The horde was strong, but clearly not enough.

                  The Tatars with frantic zeal began the battle, bombarding Lithuania with thick iron hail from bows, several hassles occurred, but caused little loss through proper construction and quick maneuvering. And Lithuania with Rusyns suddenly came upon them with sabers and spears and in hand-to-hand fighting broke through their frontal parts and mixed the dances in a semicircle, and the rest, especially the New Breasts with Koryatovichi, raced from their side arrows and arrows with long spears, like wind blowing them sheaves in a storm. (c) Chronicle of Maciej Stryikovsky
                  1. Marek Rozny
                    Marek Rozny 17 July 2013 18: 22
                    +2
                    "... Analyzing the problem of Podillia's entry into the Grand Duchy of Lithuania in the second half of the XIV century, historian Dmitry Vashchuk noted that despite a large number of special studies, neither the time of the battle, nor its place, nor whether it was at all ... "

                    "How many historians have tried to reconstruct the dynamics of hostilities on that summer day in 1362 in the fields of the Blue Waters (...), but each in his search got into such difficulties that then a new version appeared, not similar to the one in question." (K. Tarasov, "Memory in Legends: Figures of the Belarusian Past". Minsk, 1990, p. 61.) "

                    Even if we consider it a real historical battle, it should be noted that one of the three "Tatar princes" was called Dmitriy... Not a very common name for "Tatar-Mongol" laughing
                    There could not have been any large Horde troops there, since then there would have been at least some lain khan of minor damage, but there wasn’t even a single Genghisid there, but only supposedly some three noyons. Atamans from the locals collected tribute on this territory. Ordintsev there only a small detachment could only be. Even if we assume that three Temniks were sent there to deal with the Lithuanians who appeared, then there was definitely no large army. Temnik - this is 1000 wars under control. Three temniks - 3000 wars. Moreover, everywhere I stumble on the fact that Olgerd gathered a significant army of 5 to 30 thousand people, apparently he expected that he would be met by the large army of the Horde in Podillia. But instead, there were three thousandths unknown to anyone, moreover, one of them, judging by the name, was a Slav. Who in a hurry to collect these thousandths is unknown. They obviously could not count on reinforcements from the Horde, given that the Horde itself had a complete paragraph and confusion. Horde stupidly did not notice the battle on the Blue Waters. It was not up to Podillia then. Somewhere on the Lithuanian border, they did not even pay attention to the defeat of a tiny detachment. This is the year 1362 - the year when all sorts of impostors ruled in Sarai for six months, and the country disintegrated into independent uluses in all directions. This year Khan Murad has just defeated the previous Khan of the Horde Kildibek, in short, a civil war is going on, armies of hundreds of thousands of warring khans are fighting, so no one even looked at the border incident. What a nafig Podillia, when even Khorezm had already fallen away from the Horde, and the cunning upstart Mamai (Nechingizid) handed out labels on behalf of the Khan of the Golden Horde to Russians and Lithuanians and actually tore off the "Ukrainian" part of the Horde from the entire state.

                    And most importantly, since when did Prince Olgerd (the son of Gediminas) become a Russian prince, and Lithuanians and Rusyns turned into Russians ???
                    Do you want to remember how this "Russian" prince successfully smashed the Russian armies several times in order to prevent the growth of Moscow?
                    1. Lopatov
                      Lopatov 17 July 2013 18: 35
                      +3
                      Quote: Marek Rozny
                      it should be noted that one of the three "Tatar princes" was named Dmitry.

                      Sovereign by label in Kiev By the way, not Dmitry, but Dmitry.


                      Quote: Marek Rozny
                      And most importantly, since when did Prince Olgerd (the son of Gediminas) become a Russian prince

                      The Grand Duke. Grand Duchy of Lithuania, Russian, Zhemaysky and others.

                      Quote: Marek Rozny
                      Lithuanians with Rusyns turned into Russian ???

                      And where is it about the Lithuanians? There were no such people in the XNUMXth century.

                      Quote: Marek Rozny
                      Do you want to remember how this "Russian" prince successfully smashed the Russian armies several times in order to prevent the growth of Moscow?

                      Why not. And you can recall, for example, Mikhail Tversky, who also went to war in Moscow. From this it should be concluded that there were no Russians in his army?
                      1. Marek Rozny
                        Marek Rozny 17 July 2013 19: 23
                        +3
                        1) "... The defeat of the three Horde princes was first mentioned in the chronicle legend" About Podillia ":
                        "If the prince was the ruler of the Lithuanian lands, the great prince Olgird and, walking in the field with the Lithuanian army, defeated the Tatars in the Blue Water, three brothers: Prince Khachebey and Kutlubug and Dmitry".

                        The name "Dmitr" appears in the later Gustynskaya chronicle.

                        2)
                        Quote: Spade
                        The Grand Duke. Grand Duchy of Lithuania, Russian, Zemaitsky and others.

                        He never had such a title. He was simply the "Grand Duke of Lithuania".

                        3) Mikhail Tverskoy was Olgerd's puppet. No more, no less. He was not an independent figure. By the way, in 1371, Michael also received a label from the Horde. Can we consider him a "conductor of Russian politics"? An ordinary Gauleiter, who could not do anything without the support of Lithuania and the horde. Dmitry Donskoy in those years began to pay the wrong "cash desk" - Mamai, instead of paying the legitimate khan of the Horde. Essno, Mikhail, who received a label for the Great Reign, began to gouge Moscow, which turned to the separatist Mamai. As a result, Dmitry Donskoy came to his senses in time and in 1380, as you know, gave Mamai in the teeth. True, two years later, this merit did not save him from being run over by Khan Tokhtamysh, when other Russian princes whispered that supposedly Donskoy himself had separatist thoughts in his head, and the fact of non-payment of tribute was obvious. What Tokhtamysh did in 1382 and how loyal Donskoy later became - we know. But that is another story. But Mikhail Tverskoy tried his best all the time, convincing the khans of his loyalty. True, he did not care who the khan was, he was ready to support anyone who came to power in Sarai. If only they gave a label. And for this he was ready to beat Moscow as many times as necessary.
                      2. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 17 July 2013 19: 39
                        +1
                        I never saw any clear evidence that the Russians had nothing to do with the defeat of the Horde under Sinyukha.

                        And by the way, why were the ON Statutes written in Russian?
                  2. Marek Rozny
                    Marek Rozny 17 July 2013 18: 50
                    +1
                    To make it clear, imagine that during the civil war in Russia, say in 1918, the Iranian army, led by the ruler of this country, attacked a border post in Turkmenistan, where they were met by three battalions of border guards (and in the worst case, three battalions from among local militias, forcefully and hastily put together) under the command of three majors. The result of this "battle" is predictable. And it is clear that no one from Petrograd will send troops to that region at this moment. Since there is no power in the country, there is a war between whites and reds.
                    Just keep in mind that mini-wars are going on inside the reds and whites. "Lenins" appear every six months, after which they are killed and a new "Lenin" is installed. So the Russians are not up to some kind of border conflict on the outskirts of a giant empire. Such a situevina was in the Horde in 1362. And you say
                    Quote: Spade
                    The horde was strong, but clearly not enough.
                    In my opinion, it is like saying that "Russia was strong in 1918".
                    1. Lopatov
                      Lopatov 17 July 2013 19: 04
                      +5
                      Strange, but when the Horde captures the Russian principalities, taking advantage of their fragmentation, you consider it kosher, and the Horde is strong.
                      As soon as Moscow, for example, does the same, your opinion changes to the exact opposite.

                      It may still be easier to be guided by the following criterion: Russia is, but the Horde does not exist?
                    2. Marek Rozny
                      Marek Rozny 17 July 2013 19: 42
                      +3
                      Quote: Spade
                      Strange, but when the Horde captures the Russian principalities, taking advantage of their fragmentation, you consider it kosher, and the Horde is strong.
                      As soon as Moscow, for example, does the same, your opinion changes to the exact opposite.

                      No not like this. It's one thing when they conquer all of Russia as a whole, and another thing when a tiny border detachment is defeated far from the main forces. To expose it as a "battle" is somehow too tense. If Olgerd had captured the entire territory of the Horde, as Ivan the Terrible did, then it would have been "kosher." And in the best case - a minor skirmish.

                      By the way, I just looked for what kind of "Dmitry" was among the three Tatars - this is Dmitry, the prince of the Crimean Greek state Theodoro (Mangup). In short, the Greeks were also recruited into the Horde "rapid reaction unit". Apparently, things were really bad if the Horde sent the Hellenes instead of the nomads. laughing That's really quite a "storm" for the whole world)))

                      By the way, this whole trinity was not related to the Horde, but were the people of Mamaia. The one who relied in the Crimea not on the Turks, but on his European partners. Mamai, as you know, killed supporters of the legal khan in Crimea, because they refused to consider him the rightful ruler of the ulus.

                      Now one of the reasons why in Sarai no one led his ear is clear.
                    3. Lopatov
                      Lopatov 17 July 2013 19: 59
                      +3
                      Olgerd chopped off a large piece, then there was the Kazan Khanate. Then Astrakhan. Then one gifted, taking advantage of the fact that the Russian troops participated in the Livonian War, ran into Moscow and called himself in this regard "He Who Takes the Throne". It ended in defeat at Molody, where the Crimean Khanate lost most of its male population.

                      So the staff does not need to puff up.
                    4. Marek Rozny
                      Marek Rozny 17 July 2013 20: 52
                      +2
                      Chopped off the part that the Golden Horde at that time no longer controlled at all. This was the patrimony of Mamaia. And, essno, the Horde would not send troops to defend the Mamaev’s Murza. And again, Grew, Olgerd is no Russian prince. Neither by origin nor by status.
                      Kazan and Astrakhan were taken by the already mentioned Grozny. By the way, who in the army and in the state apparatus had a tueva hucha "Tatars". For example, the nephew of the Kazakh Khan Taukel, Uraz-Muhammad, was the commander of the Russian troops of Grozny in the Crimean direction. But who is interested in these details in Russia? )
                      The Battle of Molody is a good example of the victory of Russian weapons. And here on the site I have repeatedly said that it would be better for the Russians to propagate this battle than to hold on to moronic myths "about the victory of the Russians over the Horde in the Battle of Kulikovo." True, victories over the Crimean Khanate or the Astrakhan Khanate are no longer victories over the Golden Horde, since this state no longer existed. The Horde destroyed itself. The Russians had absolutely no influence on this event. Ivan the Terrible gathered the fragments of the Horde together, while he positioned himself as the legitimate heir of the Horde and Chingizid. And at the right time, he generally appointed the Chingizid prince as the head of state in order to give formal legitimacy and observe the "rules of the game" in the eyes of the former inhabitants of the Horde, who recognized the power of only the Chingizids. From that moment, by the way, all Russian rulers had tughra - a sign that was used exclusively by the Chingizids in official correspondence. It was used for letters with the former Horde. Even Putin has a tughra, although it is currently just an unofficial decorative sign.
                      The former uluses of the Horde did not show much resistance to Ivan the Terrible. The steppe dwellers already did not care who was "above", Grozny declared himself a Chingizid, everyone pretended to believe. An "iron hand" is better than Zamyatnya with her stupid temporary workers. And if Grozny was not a sadist, then he would have had a chance to reunite the Horde almost bloodlessly. But no, he chopped wood with Kazan, even the already sworn Siberians, led by Kuchum, freaked out. Well, he got the Crimeans with his stupid campaigns. Although there was a real chance to immediately become allies. Moreover, he had already taken the Baltic states by the forces of the "Tatars".

                      Z.Y. If the majority of the population of the Crimean yurt really died in the Battle of Molodi, then what prevented Moscow and then St. Petersburg from taking deserted Crimea ??? According to this logic, only women and children should have stayed there. So I do not agree with this statement.
                    5. Lopatov
                      Lopatov 17 July 2013 21: 04
                      +1
                      How many letters. And zero sense. Are you deliberately trying to "speak" uncomfortable questions?
                      Facts: the Russians were beating a horde. They hit hard. Including under the leadership of Olgerd. And in the end, finished off. Having taken for themselves those territories that they wanted. Including Crimea.
                    6. Marek Rozny
                      Marek Rozny 17 July 2013 21: 31
                      +2
                      Lopatov,
                      1) Once again I ask in what battle did the Russians defeat the Golden Horde?
                      2) What does Olgerd have to do with Russians? This is a Lithuanian prince and he is non-Russian by nation.
                      3) Crimea was taken in the 18th century, and they were gouging since the time of Grozny. And they took it only when there were only "memories" of the Horde. And the difference in technical weapons was already enormous. By the 18th century, the main clans of the steppe inhabitants had already left the Crimea - to Poland, the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, to the east - to the Nogai and then Kazakh steppes. By that time, the Crimean yurt was no longer even an independent state, it was a protectorate of the Ottoman Empire, the Crimeans themselves no longer had any human strength to defend themselves. When the Turks surrendered Crimea to Russia, only then did the Russian army enter the peninsula. And the remnants of the steppe dwellers who did not want to live under the Russian crown left the Crimea. Forever and ever. Those Crimeans that remained are the same Turks, like a ballerina from me. This is a compote from Greeks, Goths, Armenians, who at one time switched to the Turkic language and have never been nomads.
                    7. Yarbay
                      Yarbay 17 July 2013 21: 42
                      +3
                      Quote: Spade
                      Facts: the Russians were beating a horde. They hit hard.

                      Show the facts))))
                      Shovels are not serious))))
                      During the heyday of the Horde, no one * dared * to beat them !!
                      Moreover, sought to be noticed !!
                      There was a kind of USA of those times!
                    8. Marek Rozny
                      Marek Rozny 17 July 2013 22: 44
                      +2
                      There will be no such facts) Because there were no such battles) Algerd already had to be called the Russian prince in order to pull at least one iconic successful Russian battle against the Horde by the ears.
                      Only Olgerd was never a Russian prince, and he defeated it unclear who, but obviously not representatives of the Horde, but the non-Chigizid Mamai, whom most of the steppes did not support. In Crimea, he kept more due to the Genoese. And since the steppe residents did not support him, he therefore had to call Ryazans and Genoese to the Battle of Kulikovo in order to put together at least some more or less army. So in the Blue Waters he sent against Lithuania the Greeks! )))) He would have forced the old women to go into battle)
                    9. smile
                      smile 18 July 2013 18: 11
                      +1
                      Yarbay
                      Hi!!!!! Have not argued for a long time!
                      Eh. damn, there is no time for a detailed answer .... Yarbai. you are in the know. that we even took their capital, robbed and burned to the ground? even before Kulikov’s field .... if you want, tomorrow we’ll pour ... :))) I’m running !!!!!
                    10. Yarbay
                      Yarbay 21 July 2013 21: 20
                      0
                      Quote: smile
                      if you want, tomorrow we’ll pour ... :)))

                      With pleasure))))
                      But I’m obviously late))) You understand the post with us, until the first * star * you can not))))))))
    2. Shuriken
      Shuriken 17 July 2013 20: 38
      +3
      Tumen, for a second, 10, not 000!
    3. mamba
      mamba 17 July 2013 23: 08
      +1
      Quote: Marek Rozny
      Temnik - this is 1000 wars under control. Three temniks - 3000 wars.

      Temnik - the Tatars have a superior over darkness, i.e., tens of thousands. Temnik was under the direct command of the khan himself ... F.A. Encyclopedic Dictionary Brockhaus and I.A. Efron
      TEMNIK - the old Russian name for the head of the Tatar detachment of ten thousand troops, "darkness" or "tumen" ... Cossack dictionary
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 18 July 2013 00: 53
        0
        Sorry, here I was of course mistaken about the parking. Stupid mistake, I confess. And he himself wrote on the site more than once about the meaning of the word "tumen". But the essence remains the same. On the Blue Waters, the Tatars could not deploy large forces in any way. This territory had already fallen away from the Horde by 1362. In that direction the Nechingizid Mamai was driving. But the most fun begins after this "victory" over the Horde. It was in this year that Olgerd received a label from Mamai, Olgerd, the "winner", began to pay tribute to Mamai, and in general a military-political alliance was created between Olgerd and Mamai. And in 1370, a Tatar detachment sent by Mamai took part in Olgerd's large military campaign against the Teutonic knights in Prussia.

        A very strange "victory" over the Tatars, if Olgerd then begins to pay tribute to Mamai. Was he so worried about the label? In short, the questions with this battle are above the roof. Or maybe it wasn't there? Did the unknown chronicler lie? After all, there are no more sources for this battle. But absurdities after this battle are above the roof. Well, the payment of tribute by Olgerd to Mamai does not fit into the picture of "the defeat of the Tatars by the Lithuanian army." And what for Olgerd and other Lithuanian princes then regularly received labels? I did not find a translation of the label given to Olgerd, but here is an example of the label given to Vitovt.

        "Extract from the royal pact of Khadzhigirey, king of the Tatar, Khadzhigirey-king word:
        ... Firstly, we gave Kiev completely, forever to the plenum of our Lithuanian brother Vel. To Prince Casimir, the Lithuanian pans wanted us to, and we made them according to their wishes, just like the first kings did, namely: Kiev with all incomes, lands, waters and belongings (property), Lutsk (Łuczko?) With waters and all belongings them, Smolensk with lands, waters and all their belongings, Podolia with lands, waters and all their belongings, Kamenets with lands, waters and all their belongings, Bratslav with lands, waters and all their belongings, starting from Kiev to the mouth of the sea ... (hereinafter referred to as places)
        ... and the castles that are recorded here, those castles with panes with panes, with boyars, before this brother to our prince Vitold (Vitovt), and now also to our brother Zhigmunt (Sigismund) will serve our brother Casimir. They are also obliged, as before they were served, from those castles (and weights) and tributes they are obliged to give, and if they are not obedient, then it will not be good for them, and we gave this letter of ours under a gold seal. It was written in Crimea, the year 867, by his bright grace of the Prophet Muhammad, the day 22 of the month 7bris (Septembris - September?) Of the year from the birth of Jesus (A.D.) 1471. "

        Does it look like Lithuania "defeated" the steppe dwellers? Not really.
  • smile
    smile 18 July 2013 11: 37
    0
    Marek Rozny
    Unfortunately, I could not answer you yesterday - just now I went to VO ...
    Briefly. Horde. The battle on the river Vozhe, in which they suffered no less terrible defeat than on the sandpit, does not mean anything? And without any Genoese, and especially Ryazanians who didn’t marry one or the other on Kulikovo Field (got the perestroika nonsense) ... about what the ear-moths captured, they burned and robbed the capital of the Horde, did you hear? I am sure of this, you simply cannot not know about it ...
    As for the Polovtsy, Khazars and Pechenegs ... how do you write everything in detail ... :))) they say they killed each other. And we bought and appropriated our glory .... but to us, it means they did not climb because they were kind? As I understand it, Constantinople also took Constantinople? ... Reread again your comment .... isolate your main idea .... Isn’t it a shame? Why is this idea of ​​Russians the main one for you? If I wrote similar about your fellow tribesmen, I would be ashamed ... Altai, damn it. Lovers cut and rob. And then it justifies the call of blood ... It is impossible.
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 18 July 2013 17: 19
      0
      Quote: smile
      Battle of the Voge River

      If we remembered the battle on Vozha, then let's remember the beginning and end of the story, and not a separate small moment.

      With the death of the Khan of the Golden Horde Janibek in 1357, "Zamyatnya" began in Sarai, and the uluses (republics, in modern terms) began to fight each other for border territories (on the principle of "all against all"). All uluses (Russian, Tatar, Mordovian and others) on the border erected fortifications against each other. Dmitry Suzdalsky decided to plunder the neighboring Bulgar on the sly (sedentary Türks-farmers lived there), which he regularly did in the 60-70s of this century. In 1376, he knocked out Dmitry Donskoy from Moscow and the Lithuanian prince Dmitry on these campaigns. They robbed and killed in the neighboring ulus notably, the chronicles do not hide this. In addition to robbery, these Russian princes forced the ruler of the Bulgar to pay tribute annually. Mamai (in fact, the formal khan was Arabshakh, and Mamai was not a khan, but he believed that the Bulgars should pay tribute to HIM, and not to these Dmitriy) immediately after that he organized a punitive campaign - first to the Principality of Novosil, and then defeated the Suzdal people on the Pian river (1377) and plundered the lands of these princes. But since the goal of the campaign (to make Dmitriev loyal to Mamai) failed, next year the Mamaevites again smash the lands of the Suzdal-Nizhny Novgorod prince, and then the punitive detachment is sent to Moscow.
      Why is Dmitry Donskoy (as well as Suzdal, Mordovians, Ryazan and others) impudently hammer a bolt on the Barn and rob each other? Because at this time, Sarai is busy with the war with the Tamerlan troops led by Tokhtamysh, who over and over again tries to get the rights of the legitimate ruler of the Golden Horde and knock out Mamaev's puppets from Sarai. And while the main army of the Golden Horde is fighting in the east of the empire, appanage rulers began to plunder each other, knowing full well that there is NO real ruler in Sarai. And there is only a series of temporary workers who are not engaged in "establishing constitutional order" in the uluses (including the Russian uluses), but in surviving in palace intrigues and a full-scale war with other Chingizid contenders. Why couldn't the Mamaevites have large troops against the Donskoy on the Vozha River in 1378? Because since 1377 the main army fought with the Tamerlane army, and this threat was much more dangerous than some provincial Russian prince. Tamerlane’s army from 1377 to spring 1378 FIVE times invaded the Golden Hordehaving spent the 4 largest battles with the troops of the eastern part of the Golden Horde. In the spring of 1378, the Tamerlaneites began to capture the remaining western part of the Golden Horde and the Mamaevites were forced to send all their forces to fight Tokhtamysh. To understand the whole highlight of the situation, remember that the war of Mamaia (from the Kiyat clan) with Tamerlan (from the Barlas clan) is a war of two people who did not have the right to the Golden Horde throne and waged the war with the hands of Genghis puppets. Tokhtamysh was originally a pawn in the Tamerlane game. (It was later Tokhtamysh and Tamerlan clashed against each other when Tokhtamysh, becoming a khan, got out of control).
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 18 July 2013 17: 20
        +2
        By the time of the clash on the Vozha River in August 1378, Mamai had only a small part of the Steppe under control, the troops were defeated by the Tamerlanites, so Mamai frantically recruited not the steppes, but the Europeans already, was sent to Genoa, with the Greek colonies, and later Ryazan and ON He could no longer send a strong steppe army against Donskoy. But although Muscovites and Ryazanians were able to defeat the punishers of Mamaia on the Vozha River, Mamai instantly reacted and immediately launched a counterattack and was able to defeat the Ryazan principality (after that Ryazan became a temporary ally of Mamaia).
        But these were already the dying convulsions of Mamaev’s power. He was no longer able to beat Moscow. It is significant that the strength of Mamaia at the time of the Battle of Kulikovo was no longer composed of several Turkic steppes, but of Armenians, Greeks, Genoese, Circassians, Burtases, Poles, Lithuanians and Ryazans.
        By the end of the 70s, Mamai completely lost his influence among the steppe inhabitants, even those expressing loyalty in labor were actually waiting for Tokhtamysh as the legitimate heir to the throne.
        In short, Mamai played out with his games with the Chingizid princes. The Battle of the Vozha is one minor incident. And then - it is difficult to call it a battle against the Golden Horde. This is a clash with the Mamaevites. And the Golden Horde itself did not exist at that time. There were shards of an empire where everyone fought against everyone. The "government" troops of the Horde, led by the khan, fought with the Tamerlane. They had no time for a showdown with the Russians. Arabshah (the formal khan of the Golden Horde) participated only in the battle on the Pian river. But a small army was already sent to the battle on the Vozha River, because the unit was headed by a minor commander named Begich.
        If the defeat of a small detachment under the command of some Murza Begich is the brightest victory over the Horde, then for God's sake. Just do not forget that for the defeat of Begich on Vozha they answered immediately. And if you tear out individual insignificant battles from the general context, then you can expose the capture by the Romanian army of the Soviet cities of Balti and Khotin in July 1941 - as proof that the Romanians are stronger than the Red Army.
        1. smile
          smile 18 July 2013 17: 50
          0
          Marek rozn
          Briefly. because, as I have half an hour, as I warned, I can answer tomorrow.
          You wrote all this to what? How we beat them, so they have a civil strife, and how do they do us, when we have the same civil strife so what? This already looks like an impudent distortion - they beat us when we had feudal fragmentation and were beaten only because of this. All! And in our armies was full of militias. not just professional warriors. which were very few.
          And further. I don’t understand why you are putting a lot of well-known material here? For solidity or to chat the topic? Your initial postulates are false. and this hefty text does not in any way confirm them ... if only because. that this small detachment of many thousands was no less than our army ..... what is unclear here? Have you forgotten the essence of the dispute?
          And that’s what you won’t be able to chat.
        2. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 19 July 2013 04: 55
          0
          Do not play around. You just present a small battle with an unknown Murza Begich as a "bright victory" over the Golden Horde. And the Russians lost everything main battles of the Golden Horde. Whom did the Russians beat? Name the name of the Khan defeated in the battle. There are no such. Yes, Donskoy defeated Mamai in 1380. He was not the only khan. The troops were largely composed of non-Turks. Mamaia’s power was eliminated by Tokhtamysh before. And after Dmitry Donskoy tried to ignore Tokhtamysh ... You yourself know what happened to the future capital of Russia. It’s not for him to beat the Genoese with the Armenians, it’s the steppes who returned.
          Yes, the Russian and Lithuanian princes tried to use the Memorial and get rid of the Horde government, but could not do anything. Because at that time in history, the best wars in the world were the Turkic nomads, until the technical successes of the West put an end to the military hegemony of the Eurasian steppes.
          Quote: smile
          Why are you putting in a ton of well-known material here?

          So that you do not pull out a small episode from the general context. And about the Romanians in 1941, I recalled precisely for this purpose.
          Quote: smile
          if only because. that this small detachment of many thousands was no less than our army .....
          Why did you decide this? The Russians write that there were supposedly 50 thousand opponents. That's nonsense. Led by a small commander. This is the same as imagining that an officer with the rank of major was placed at the head of the 2nd shock army of the Red Army.
          Three tumens of 30 men, led by Batu and Subudey, walked through Western Europe as if on a walk, destroying all the European armies that had met. The Horde army of 20-30 thousand people, led by Jebe and Subudey - such was the army on Kalka. And here supposedly 50 thousand troops were led by anyone anyhow. Ay-ya-yah, what a stupid Mamai.
          Even in Tamerlan, in the decisive battle with Khan Tokhtamysh (on the Kondurch River), 100-120 thousand were in the army. But this battle is actually equivalent to the Battle of Stalingrad + Berlin operation in scale and significance of that time. So do not even start sculpting about "50 thousand" Horde people, led by Murza Begich, sent by Mamai against the Moscow prince (in all of Moscow in those years there were no more than 40 thousand inhabitants). If Mamai had really sent so many wars with Begich, then there would be no stone unturned from Moscow.

          In short, instead of examples, you originally wrote a small episode, and now there’s nowhere to go, therefore you will rush poop at me personally, instead of proving your example.
          And the essence of this dispute is simple - the Russian princes did not inflict any significant defeats on the Golden Horde. Generally. This causes a break in the Russian template, because after finishing school, every Russian knows that "the Russians defeated the Tatar-Mongols." But when you ask in which battle and which khan they won, instead of answers, there are usually attempts to switch to personality. Am I chattering the question or are you? Name at least one worthwhile real victory of the Russian troops over the Golden Horde. It is only in cartoons about Tugarin-Snake that the Horde pay tribute to the Russians laughing
        3. smile
          smile 19 July 2013 13: 50
          +1
          Marek Rozny
          Hey. Something you are right in. Something in no.
          Wrong in the main, you said. that the Türks are stronger than the Russians is not true. Horde. which you rated at 30 thousand :))))) why not 3 thousand? captured the floor of Europe. When we were fragmented. Everything.
          When the Russians rallied, we, with your multiple superiority for centuries, crushed you always and everywhere, where we met your aggression or where we wished. We drove the Ottomans into our hole so that we were afraid to blather in our direction. "I suppose you know. that even now there are fewer Russians than you." We have calmed down all the robber descendants of the Altai, who love to justify the murders of the defenseless with the call of blood. crushing their predatory instincts.
          2. Reasoning about the general mentality of the Altai people is unreasonable reasoning about the general mentality of the Indo-Europeans, ignoring the millennia of separate development. I’m too lazy to write, below, in the correspondence with Papakiko, I have already described all this in great detail, you will want to read it .... Everything, there will be a new article where you again begin to rave about the superiority of the Türks and put them in their place. and I’m not going to waste time on senseless bickering. I want to read, and not rummage through the internet ....
        4. romb
          romb 19 July 2013 15: 37
          +1
          Water again ...
          Where are the facts ???
        5. smile
          smile 19 July 2013 20: 07
          0
          romb
          Then Russia was decentralized .. we were conquered ... when at least part of Russia united (without half of Novgorod Rus) crushed all the nomads not only with a professional army, the fighting ability of which all the Türks who laid their eyes on us .... the delicate play of the Turks on our contradictions allowed us to keep us in check for some very considerable time .... when we rallied at least partially (with the exception of half of Rus- Novgorod), we trampled the Turks, using the resources of half the World, which by that time were dehydrated Wali to our fortune of the 12th century ... then the Turks, half of which was united by the Ottomans ... climbed again and here (although there were more of them even in the Turkish Empire than us) we simply trampled them ... we had such peasants .... you know that before the end of the 19th century, non-Russian soldiers were not called up to the army ... well, that's why they trampled .... just a Russian peasant in terms of fighting qualities would shut up a couple of dozen Turkic relatives ..... like that? I told the truth .... just slightly distorted the lies of Marek, who also says part of the program ... but in his favor ...

          I gave you an example of Marikovsky lies. only in our performance ..... what I wrote in this commentary has the same authenticity. if not a big ... Turk then we really are. 1-10 pi ... they did as they wanted .... and who cares how difficult it was ....
          That's all, let’s say, there will be an article, we will have a fight ... Marek. I am ashamed to ask about it, therefore. like yourself too lazy .... write an article .... swearing ... yay ... :))))) I seriously .... and at the same time I apologize, I already drank ... not to that extent. like a Japanese .... but nearby .... :))))
        6. romb
          romb 19 July 2013 20: 33
          +1
          Vladimir, Marek, at least, relies on the facts, which are indicated in written sources. But his opponents, not being able to refute what they wrote, feeling that they are completely draining it, they openly engage in mystification of historical events, or even bear obvious absurdity.

          Have a nice rest! hi
        7. smile
          smile 20 July 2013 14: 28
          -1
          romb
          Thank you!
          Ron. you read the whole controversy, you know how this debate began ... you understand perfectly well that the Turks we have been battling for six hundred years, usually with a numerical margin in their favor, are a fact ... so what ... Turk, you pretend that you don’t notice anything? :))). You can yell a lot how much cooler they are than Russian ... but for more than five thousand years we have been interfering with their shit. as soon as they lift our tail on us ...
          but about the mentality, I have already said enough in the comments on this thread ... and no one even tried to refute .... So. that Ron .... you are deeply mistaken ... or rather wishful thinking ... ...))))
        8. romb
          romb 20 July 2013 17: 30
          +2
          Vladimir!
          Once again, you have not indicated where you get your data.
          Well, let's try to deal with the material that you want to indicate as an argument.
          For example, Ushkuyniki. Who were the earplugs? What goals and objectives did they set for themselves?
          If you try to neutrally analyze this community, it turns out that the earplugs are clearly not pulling the role of knights of the liberators. In fact, they were ordinary river filibusters who committed their armed assaults on caravans of merchant ships or individual riverine cities, the vast majority of which (not counting Zhekatau and the old Saray-Batu) were just exactly the same Russian cities, i.e. belonged to the Russian princes. And for some reason they ruined the squads of the Russian governor and princes. In fact, their goal was quite prosaic, and did not carry the ideological coloring that you want to impose on them.
          I will be more brief: they did not raid for the good or in defense of the Russian people, they generally did not give a damn about it. They had one goal: personal enrichment through robbery and looting of the weaker.
          If you touch on the terms of action of the earpads, it turns out that all their heroes are ter. Mamaev Hordes were committed in a strictly defined period of time, namely: from 1360 -1381gg. during the period of the well-known Memorial - the Great Troubles in the camp of the Juchids. And here's what is interesting, after the recognition of Tokhtamysh as khan, they sank into the water, they were almost never seen in the territories directly controlled by the Genghisids. And most importantly, virtually all of their raids ended in tears for them, namely, severed heads.
          To be honest, I don’t understand, can you really be proud of the attack of river robbers on the defenseless city of Saray-Batu, in which, moreover, there were no Horde troops, in addition to all the rest, a considerable part of the townspeople were ordinary trading people, of whom a considerable part were Russians? I would understand your pride if the earflaps clashed under the banners of the Russian princes with nomads in direct confrontation on the battlefield, and so admire the usual lawlessness ....
          If we talk about the raids of the fifteenth century, i.e. committed almost a hundred years later, this is a completely different story. By then, the Horde as a centralized force no longer existed. It broke up into many small khanates under the control of various Genghisides who entered into an internecine struggle for a place in the sun.
    2. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 21 July 2013 00: 31
      +2
      uahaha)))))))) This is when "the Russians rallied"? this is when Ivan Vasilyevich drowned his consanguineous Russians in blood? in my opinion, the Russian principalities were CONQUERED by Ivan the Terrible. Well, the fact that he fought with the help of the Horde Murzas and Turkic wars is a parable in the tongues. Is it not from the time of Ivan Vasilyevich that Turkic noble families begin in Russia? Ivan the Terrible lured all influential Turkic murzas who were dissatisfied with their khans. Godunov adhered to the same policy. Even Uraz-Muhammad, who was taken prisoner (he was not captured as a result of the battle), was treated kindly by the Russian tsar and was made commander in the Crimean direction. Russian "Tatars" fought against the Balts, Swedes, northern peoples and others. In particular, they conquered for Russia the Turkic fragments of the Horde that died in the Bose. You will see the genealogies of the 16th century Russian establishment - sheer "Tatarva" (and not only the Shuiskys, Obolenskys) - the Urusovs, Bulgakovs, Yusupovs, Kekuatovs, Kutumovs, Shirinskys, Meshcherskys, Narykovs and others. Moscow at the time of Ivan the Terrible or Boris Godunov was a typical Horde state, both in structure and culture, and in the ethnic composition of the ruling elite and troops. But what’s really there - Godunov himself comes from the "Tatar" Murzas. Western Europeans, by and large, did not see any difference between pre-Petrine Muscovy and the Tatar khanates - one fig difference. Only Peter stirred up the "old Moscow way of life", which was essentially Turkic.
      I understand that this cuts the ear of a Russian person - Ivan the Terrible and Boris Godunov actually built their state, relying on Turkic campaigners who already had real experience in managing the state and the army, and who built Muscovy according to the only template that they knew - they built familiar to them "Horde".
      If you think that the first Russian tsars had "think tanks" and armies, consisting exclusively of ethnic Slavs, then you are very deeply mistaken. Sorry, but the Russians did not have any military experience, or in terms of public administration, so they simply invited the former Horde people. These "ronins" built pre-Petrine Russia and they also augmented the Moscow principality with new lands. Who was at the head of the Moscow army during the time of Vasily III in the war with Kazan, and who was one of the generals of Ivan the Terrible during the capture of this city? Shah Ali. Who led the Russian army in the Livonian War? Sain Bulat Khan (Simeon Bekbulatovich). Etc. Even later (in the 17th century), the Russian army of Mikhail Fedorovich (the grandfather of Peter the Great) still consisted of "Tatars" to a large extent - the number of only the Tatar-Bashkir irregular cavalry was 18,700 people with the total number of the Russian army at 92,5 thousand (1630). The Turks from the moment of the collapse of the Horde have served the young Russian state with might and main, although many are sure that the steppe-men got under the Russian flag only since the war of 1812.
  • Yarbay
    Yarbay 21 July 2013 21: 23
    +1
    Quote: Marek Rozny
    Yes, Donskoy defeated Mamai in 1380. He was not the only khan. The troops were largely composed of non-Türks

    I’ll just add that apparently there were many Turks in the Don army !!
    Even with the latest research, most!
  • Marek Rozny
    Marek Rozny 18 July 2013 20: 41
    0
    Quote: smile
    about what the ushkuyniki captured, burnt and robbed the capital of the Horde, did you hear?

    Ushkuiny attacked Sarai Batu (Astrakhan region), which by that time had long been no longer the capital of the Horde, but was a seedy us point, which by that time was not even really mentioned.
    The capital of the Golden Horde since 1282 was the city Sarai Berke (Volgograd region).
    When I write here about the capital, calling it "Saray", by default I mean Saray-Berke, not Saray-Batu.
    When the ear-boats sailed in 1377, a muzzy village remained, roughly speaking, from the old capital.

    Z.Y. And there was also the city of Saraichik / Saraishik in the Urals (on the territory of the KZ), which is also often confused in Russia with the two above-mentioned cities.

    Quote: smile
    And without any Genoese, and even more so Ryazans, who did not marry either on one or the other on Kulikovo Field
    Well, they didn't go to the battlefield. The Genoese were on the field. Only the residents of Ryazan and the Lithuanian Yagailo "did not have time" to arrive at the battle. But until Mamai was overturned, they were his allies. And this is not "perestroika delirium", but Russian chronicles.

    Quote: smile
    As for the Polovtsy, Khazars and Pechenegs ... how do you write everything in detail ... :))) they say they killed each other. And we bought and appropriated our glory .... but to us, it means they did not climb because they were kind? As I understand it, Constantinople also took Constantinople?

    Yes, Turkic tribes cut themselves with themselves. The ancestors of the Russians did not go deep into the Steppe, confining themselves to border clashes and defense. Svyatoslav is the first (and by and large the only) who deeply climbed into the Turkic steppe, reaching the capital of Khazaria. I did this with the help of the Oguzes. Let me remind you that Svyatoslav constantly hired various Turkic tribes, both Oguzes and Pechenegs.
    Tsargrad lands were stormed by Svyatoslav together with nomad allies, and this is a historical fact. Only not the Polovtsians, but the Pechenegs. Well, since Svyatoslav, to put it mildly, led an unpredictable policy, concluding and breaking an alliance seven times a week, in the end, all the neighbors wanted his death - the Byzantines, the Bulgarians, the Khazars, and the Pechenegs. He got everyone with his multi-vector robberies. That is why it turned into a drinking bowl for the Pechenezh Khan. All, of course, were then bandits, but Svyatoslav was completely a fanatic of the principle "I fight because I fight." At first he was friends with the Oguzes against the Khazars, then with the Byzantines against the Bulgarians, then with the Bulgarians and Pechenegs against the Byzantines.
    As you know, almost all the Pecheneg wars died in the Byzantine campaign, and, apparently, Svyatoslav saved his wars and clearly did not intend to give part of the production to the Pecheneg ally, because went back home with Byzantine gifts. Apparently, Khan Kurya realized that he had been thrown. And then there were Byzantines and Bulgarians sent missions to the Pechenegs with gifts ... But this is another topic.

    Well, as for the cutting of the Chinese, then there is nothing to hide, give the neighbors of China just a pretext, and the Chinese massacre will happen again. There is no other way to fight them. Otherwise, there would not have been one and a half billion now, but many times more. During the war with this giant - not to sentiment. And those who thought that it was not necessary to cut them out had long been assimilated by the Chinese themselves. Here is such a gloomy and ugly truth.
  • MakSim51ru
    MakSim51ru 19 July 2013 10: 56
    0
    You carry garbage, my dear. Well, start with the fact that:
    Quote: Marek Rozny
    Hort, there is a significant difference. the Scandinavians and the ancient Slavs had separate military castes / estates / squads. the rest of their relatives had nothing to do with military craft. and the mentality of war is different from the mentality of a fisherman

    And what does the same Japanese have something wrong?

    Quote: Marek Rozny
    Therefore, the Rurikovichs had to hire all the time and "Varangian" (North German) wars and Turkic nomads


    In exactly the same way as the Chinese princes more willingly recruited immigrants from other principalities (less chance of betrayal, greater dependence on the prince)

    Quote: Marek Rozny
    But here, pay attention, the Turks were hired by clans / tribes


    Have you heard about torques? But was the Turkic people the same?
  • Hort
    Hort 23 July 2013 11: 34
    0
    Well, according to fragmentary sources and descriptions of travelers, the Slavs and their Russians, too, from childhood brought up a sword to hold, figuratively speaking. By the way, it is important to note that among the same yapps, the militia was in the same way an order of magnitude worse trained than the "guard" of the samurai of the shogunate, in exactly the same way as the princely squad differed from the militia.
    Well, I will correct a little: the Vikings are not a nationality, but a "profession", like the Vikings. Therefore, in the Varangians there were not only and not so much the North Germans as the Baltic Slavs (encouraged, Rugi / Rus) and the Scandinavians. The same Rurik, according to some hypotheses, was just either light brown or encouraging. And he came from somewhere from under Radigosch or Arkona.
    Again, based on the descriptions of the campaigns of the Krugs in the Baltic and from the works of Rybakov, they walked well there: several times they besieged Hedeby, landed in Scandinavia, and they held an impressive bridgehead there for a long time.
  • German
    German 17 July 2013 13: 35
    +2
    An interesting point of view: I put a plus. Although I disagree on some issues, but the general view on the topic, still deserves attention ...
  • Yura
    Yura 17 July 2013 13: 54
    +1
    Quote: Marek Rozny
    You can’t forget, but you can’t get hung up on it either.

    Gold words. To think and build your life further, remembering the mistakes, knowing where you can expect a dirty trick, and to live without a dirty trick to your neighbors.
  • Papakiko
    Papakiko 17 July 2013 15: 29
    +3
    Quote: Marek Rozny
    In 1916, when the arbitrariness of the tsarist government in Kazakhstan reached its zenith (forcibly took the land from the Kazakhs and handed over to Russian settlers-Stolypin), Kazakhs without weapons (Kazakhs were forbidden to have weapons) launched the largest (in territory) uprising in the Russian Empire. They killed both tsarist officials, and Cossacks, and soldiers, and unfortunate settlers. In turn, the royal punishers also did not particularly stand on ceremony with the Kazakhs. As a result, the entire Kazakh steppe was covered in blood - both Russian, and Kazakh, and guilty, and innocent. There was no mercy for anyone - be it a rebel, be it aul grandmother, be it a royal Cossack, be it a nude peasant who had just arrived from Ukraine. Only after the overthrow of the tsarist government (and the actual stoppage of the resettlement of Russian peasants and the de facto cancellation of the decree on mobilizing the Kazakhs for rear work on the WWI fronts) did the Kazakhs calm down.

    One of the "ballads" about MEGAKAZAKH.
    Quote: Marek Rozny
    Excessive cruelty in war is characteristic of all Altai peoples (steppe Turks, Mongols, Manchus, Japanese, Hungarians). In peacetime they are very friendly, hospitable, sincere people. But if there is a war, they will destroy the enemy totally. Without any reflection. And they will not feel guilty - "this is war!"
    And I will sincerely be perplexed after the war why they are offended.

    Then the Anglo-Saxons should also be counted among the "Altaians".
    Ispanov with Portugal to whom? For a couple they destroyed a heap of countless peoples.
    In North America, 100 million red-skinned people were destroyed by the forces of the emerging American nation (all the scum of Europe) -Which "Altaians" are they to be ranked among?
    Egyptians, that "God-pleasing people" were destroyed, Ottoman Turks, etc. etc.
    ??????????????????????
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 17 July 2013 16: 49
      +1
      Quote: Papakiko
      One of the "ballads" about MEGAKAZAKH.

      Ballad? Are you familiar with the theme of the 1916 uprising? Or just strangled?
      Quote: Papakiko
      Then the Anglo-Saxons should also be counted among the "Altaians".

      I have already written here about how the European peoples prefer to genocide. they do this in "peacetime" times, and not during a direct military conflict.
      Quote: Papakiko
      Ispanov with Portugal to whom? For a couple they destroyed a heap of countless peoples.

      the Asians fought with an enemy who was at the same military-technical level. at the same time, let me remind you that they fought against the "eternally giant" China. the Europeans killed those who were at a low technical level. in battles against an enemy equal in technology, the Europeans, alas, did not shine. as soon as the colonies in the 20th century had a weapon with which it was possible to kick a pink ass to Europeans, then instantly all European empires shrank to a minimum.
      Quote: Papakiko
      Egyptians that "God-pleasing people" were destroyed
      you again confuse the genocide of the two belligerent countries, and just genocide in "peacetime". the Turks, Mongols, Japanese have not had such cases in history. they only commit genocide during war. I’m not saying that this is great, I’m talking about a significant difference in mentality. Altaians have either war or peace. among European peoples, morality allows to arrange genocide in "peacetime". the Turks harshly walked over the Armenians only after the Armenians themselves began the massacre of the Turks. in peacetime, the Turks did not genocide the conquered peoples. the Armenians themselves asked for it. and now they've gotten everyone with their "holocaust".

      Besides, China is China. Apart from massacres, there is no other way to stop this country. Even if you count all the Turkic, Mongolian, Finno-Ugric, Tungus, Japanese-speaking inhabitants from Western Europe, from Okinawa, from the Sea of ​​Okhotsk to Afghanistan, even then there will not be even a third of the number of Chinese. Therefore, when there is a war with China, all the "Altai" tried to inflict maximum damage on this enemy, not sparing its civilian population. Otherwise, there would be not 1,5 billion Chinese now, but many times more. And the Chinese world would not end on the Amur. What is incomprehensible to you in the actions of the Japanese, Turks, Mongols? A yard and a half of Chinese keep the whole world in suspense, but what if there were two, or even three times as many? I think they would not stand on ceremony and would have arranged a "pax sina" from Hawaii to Foggy Albion long ago. At the same time, the Chinese will always find a reason to declare something non-Chinese to be Chinese. Tomorrow they will be pouring information into the Russian and English-language Internet that the balalaika is a primordially Chinese instrument, kvass will be declared an invention of Confucius, and the song "There was a birch tree in the field" - a stolen Chinese melody about a bamboo grove. And while you are in tetanus, they will convince the whole world of this, and then they will "remember" that Genghis Khan is the founder of China, and the entire empire of the Genghisids, including Russia, must by law be the territory of the PRC. The Chinese are pro at how to represent black as white and vice versa.
      1. FRIGATE2
        FRIGATE2 17 July 2013 21: 50
        +1
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        Confucius

        I do not think Confucius is Chinese. According to the photos, he is curly and most likely a Jew or Turk.
        The gene for curls is among Jews, Saks, and Turks.
        1. smile
          smile 18 July 2013 17: 57
          0
          FRIGATE2
          Yeah. even blacks and Indians. whose civilization is still ancient Chinese and was its donor ... :)))))) The question is, why did the Indians forget whose civilization is older than the Turks and Entichs of the Altaians themselves? By the way, if Mark’s supporter is that all descendants of the Altai people have a common mentality, find a common mentality among Indo-Europeans who are at least a thousand years older than the Altai people. By the way. Marek, you can join your supporter ... what. nothing to say? :))))
    2. smile
      smile 17 July 2013 17: 25
      +4
      Papakiko
      Right Right in the eye! :))) And about the ballad about megacases, the progenitors of the Japanese .... :))))
      especially...:))))
      And pay attention. how elegantly a comrade manages to kick the Russians and at the same time justify the atrocities of his fellow tribesmen .... talent, you will not say anything. :))))
      Altai-they are ... I look at Hitler's Altai roots peeping ... judging by the deeds ... :)))) now I understand why he is so like a Japanese - because Altai blood, because that Kazakhs gave birth to both him and the Japanese, here! :)))))))
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 17 July 2013 17: 36
        +2
        ... detailed lexicostatistical analysis and comparative distribution approx. 2000 lexical isoglosses (summarized in the Altai etymological dictionary [2003]) speak in favor of the fact that the Altai family is divided into 3 subfamilies:
        Western (Turkic-Mongolian), disintegrated in the middle. 4th millennium BC e. on the Turkic and Mongolian branches (25 matches in a 100-word list);
        central, including the Tungus-Manchu branch;
        eastern (Japanese-Korean), disintegrated in the middle. 3 thousand BC e. to Korean and Japanese-Ryukyu branches (33 matches in a 100-word list). Historical data indicate that up to III millennium BC. e. Japanese-Koreans and Tungus-Manchus formed a unity, split by the creation of the Glazkov culture and the kingdom of Kochoson. The split of the Japanese-Koreans occurred only in the IV century BC. e., when some of them moved to Japan and assimilated the local Ainu, created the Yoyoi proto-Japanese culture.
        The emergence of scientific altavistics is associated with the name of B. Ya. Vladimirtsov, G. Y. Ramstedt and N. N. Poppe. G. Ramstedt substantiated the kinship not only of the Turkic, Mongolian and Tungus-Manchu languages, but also of Korean. Subsequently, R. Miller put forward, and S. A. Starostin finally substantiated the Japanese language belonging to the same family.
        1. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 17 July 2013 17: 42
          +3
          And just chat at least once in your life with a Japanese on this topic. He will confirm to you that the Japanese consider both Koreans, and Mongols, and Turks - relatives.
          But distorting my words and ascribing to me that the Japanese allegedly descended from the Kazakhs is not necessary. Moreover, at the very beginning I wrote that the Japanese are very different from the Kazakhs in mentality. And only in matters of military morality - our peoples are absolutely identical. In the same way, the Mongols and Hungarians. Of which they are constantly accused of excessive cruelty during the war. You just decided to fast, because you don’t know anything about the psychology of these peoples. And I have an established opinion about the psychotype of these peoples based on frequent contacts. And I can say where we have common sides, and where we differ from each other.
          1. smile
            smile 18 July 2013 12: 00
            +1
            Marek Rozny

            Well, why do you spell truths to me? You talked about the mentality.
            Let's compare Sanskrit and Ukrainian. Russian languages ​​- there are much more words with the same sound .... will you draw conclusions about the mentality? :))) Let's remember about the Indo-European group ... will you isolate the general mentality? :))) Let's recall that people came to North America on the isthmus at the Bering Strait .... the mentality is the same? I'm not talking about the Semitic-Hamitic language group.
            Thousands of years have passed ... entire nations, Empires have disappeared, dissolved and assimilated ... and you are looking for a common mentality .... yeah, between the Hungarians and the Japanese ....... existing and developing in completely different conditions, environments and environment ....
            I talked with the Japanese and I will communicate. And with some representatives of this nation, it’s close enough .... Yesterday I called my friend when the pier will be back. And asked what she thinks ... she said that of course relatives ... especially when you consider that we all came out of Africa ... to the question, but yours agree, I answered - well, you know how polite we are. .. and neighs .... You see, out of politeness, the Japanese comrades will agree not only that Hungarians are their siblings. But also with the fact that perhaps you have the same mother with them .... it is strange that you are not familiar with such a Japanese trait. Because you really know the Japanese and have characterized them quite correctly. And I mentioned it. All .... I want to read ....
            Yes. I joked ... and joked because it’s impossible to take a person with a petty nationalist complex seriously ... you are humiliating yourself with your petty, petty nitpicking and trying to somehow kick at every convenient and inconvenient case of Russians ... a clear complex of petty nationalists .... no attempt to cover up with objectivity will help - it’s still obvious ... I’d better joke. How to draw conclusions about all Kazakhs on offended nationalists ....
            I can answer no later than 17 Moscow time - then I will not be up to an Internet.
            1. Papakiko
              Papakiko 18 July 2013 16: 58
              +2
              Quote: smile
              I talked with the Japanese and I will communicate. And with some representatives of this people, it’s close enough.

              I strongly support you and this is not due to origami and sushi.
              Communicating and exchanging with different people, you grow yourself and grow your offspring.
              And Marek zhzhzhzhot!
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              And I can say where we have common sides, and where we differ from each other.

              It is necessary to submit it to the Nobel Prize.
              1. smile
                smile 18 July 2013 18: 02
                +1
                Papakiko
                Yeah, really burning .... look. how skillfully he dodges specific questions ... he tries to divert the argument to the side and chat it, breathing in a ton of well-known information .... a petty nationalist and nothing more, it's a pity. the guy is talented .... if he was more objective, I would understand ... a person can chuck ... and his one is too clearly visible, but a fiery passion is Russophobia .... just insulting ....
                By the way. mind you. he didn’t write anything to this comment of mine ...- you see there’s nothing to talk about ... :)))
                And I'm not friends with a Japanese because of origami .... :)))) Honestly ... :))))
                1. Papakiko
                  Papakiko 18 July 2013 19: 16
                  +1
                  Quote: smile
                  And I'm not friends with a Japanese because of origami .... :)))) Honestly ... :))))

                  It could have been omitted.
                  Definitely not out of love for bonsai or mastering karasansui. wink
                  Quote: Marek Rozny
                  that the Japanese consider both Koreans, and Mongols, and Turks - relatives.

                  Quote: smile
                  his one is clearly visible, but his fiery passion is Russophobia .... just a shame

                  All right, you fall into despondency from the "Soros consumer".
                  Purely for banter over the "Mauritius":
                  China is a multinational state on the territory of which 56 nationalities live. According to the Third All-China Census of 1982, there were 936,70 million Chinese (Han) and 67,23 million representatives of national minorities in China. The 55 nationalities living in the country include: Zhuang, Hui, Uyghurs, and, Miao, Manchus, Tibetans, Mongols, Tujia, Bui, Koreans, Dong, Yao, Bai, Hani, Kazakhs, Thai, Li, Fox, she, lahu, va, shui, dong-xiang, nasi, tu, kyrgyz, qiang, daura, jingpo, mulao, sibo, salary, bulans, gelao, maonan, tajiks, pumi, well, achana, evenki, jing, Bengluns, Uzbeks, Ji-nos, Yugurs, Baoan, Duluns, Orochons, Tatars, Russians, Khaoshan, Hezhe, Menba, foreheads (in decreasing order of numbers).
                  According to the Third All-China Census of 1982, there were 936,70 million Chinese (Han) and 67,23 million representatives of national minorities in China.
                  Despite the small number of national minorities, they live on the territory that occupies about 50-60% of the country's territory, mainly in Inner Mongolia, Tibet, Xinjiang Uygur, Guangxi Zhuang and Ningxia Hui Autonomous Regions, as well as the provinces of Heilongjiang, Jilin, Liaoning, Gan-su, Qinghai, Sichuan, Yunnan, Guich-zhou, Guangdong, Hunan, Hebei, Hubei, Fujian and Taiwan.
                  It's all about the question of whom the Japonites "genocide".
                  And I will simply miss the historical "knowledge" about the history of the Russian state.
                  1. The comment was deleted.
                  2. Papakiko
                    Papakiko 22 July 2013 03: 20
                    -1
                    Quote: Marek Rozny
                    Well, my knowledge of Russia is deeper than that of most ethnic Russians.

                    You Tolkien and Rowling or Andersen go and share your "knowledge".
                    Quote: Marek Rozny
                    There are many Uighurs and Dungans (Hui) in Kazakhstan - these people fled from China to maintain their cultural identity.

                    And what fate awaits them? Assimilated to be "Kazakhs"?
                    Quote: Marek Rozny
                    or admins as usual do not notice insults against me?

                    In order for the admins to "poke", you first need to be extremely educated yourself, and then they will notice and warm you. Well, of course, do not deal with the "troll-lo-lo", with the latter you just "want". hi
          2. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny 21 July 2013 02: 21
            +1
            Quote: smile
            Let's compare Sanskrit and Ukrainian. Russian languages ​​- there are much more words with the same sound .... will you draw conclusions about the mentality? :)))

            For God's sake, let's talk about that too. Indo-European peoples do not have a common mentality. They parted in ancient times, and already a bunch of thousands of years ago they turned into different peoples. There are enough common words in the Indo-European language to talk about common roots, but there are much more common words in the Altai languages. Agglutinative languages, to which, for example, the Turkic language belongs, are more conservative. Any Kazakh or Turk can easily read the Turkic text of the 6th century, transcribed from the runic alphabet to modern alphabets. But the Russian person already does not understand half of the text in the "Lay of Igor's Host" in the 16th century edition. European languages ​​are changing very quickly, while Altai languages ​​are changing very, very slowly. As I already mentioned, when I decided to learn Japanese for the sake of pampering, in two hours I came across a noticeable number of words in which I saw roots familiar to Kazakhs.
            As for the mentality, I already wrote several times here that the difference in mentality between us and the Japanese and Koreans is already big. We are completely different in this regard. And only in terms of military psychology, all Altai peoples are absolutely identical. Yes, the Altai peoples (Turks, Mongols, Hungarians, Japanese) are really distinguished by their excessive cruelty towards the enemy. And in all wars, without exception. And at the same time, the Altai know how to instantly switch to a "good-natured" regime after the war is over. These are Europeans, Arabs and other Asians who will maintain a smoldering hatred for the reconciled enemy for a long time, and the Turks / Mongols / Japanese / Hungarians live immediately after the armistice as if nothing had happened, having neither claims to the former enemy, nor feeling guilty for the cruelty. A Hungarian, Turkestan or Japanese would never think of whining about the "injustices" of yesterday's enemy or, on the contrary, sprinkle ashes on his head, apologizing for his "bad behavior" during the last war. This is a characteristic feature of the Altai peoples. This is what I'm talking about.
            Yes, other nations are also cruel during the war. sometimes... But the Altai will always be cruel towards the enemy, be it an armed enemy or its civilian population. The Altai have no sentiment towards the enemy. There will be another war with China tomorrow, and again the Turks / Mongols / Japanese will slaughter the Chinese with a clear conscience. Even those who are now saying: "Ay-ya-yay! How can you kill women and children ?!", in this war they will calmly do it themselves.
            If Zhukov had not ordered to stop the cruel treatment of the conquered Germans, then the Soviet Asians would have really fucked up all the German women and would have calmly let them "into the expense." Because an enemy woman is a woman, but she is still an enemy. A woman is weaker than a man, but more insidious. The woman killed Attila, whom no man could kill. And the enemy child must be killed, because if you do not cut out the enemy cleanly, then tomorrow he will turn again into an enemy who will kill you or your son. Once the Huns did not finish off the enemies, they left one boy alive, chopping off his hands and feet, and as a result, a wolf came out and conceived from him the descendants who created the Turkic empire and defeated all their enemies. This is the basis of Turkic mythology. The enemies of Yesugei were killed, but Temuchin's jerk was left alive, and in the end they all died at his hand when he became Genghis Khan.
            1. Marek Rozny
              Marek Rozny 21 July 2013 02: 24
              0
              Today it is a small animal - and tomorrow it will turn into a tiger. Therefore, if you want your people to live quietly tomorrow, then kill the enemy completely, and the women of the enemy people must either give birth your children, or die.
              I understand that I am saying very cruel things. But thanks to this psychology, the Altaians still exist, and have not turned into Chinese, like other (more "humane") nations that once coexisted with China. The Europeans never had such a neighbor at their side, therefore the war of total destruction in their conditions was not an urgent need. And for the ancestors of today's Turks, Mongols, Japanese, Hungarians - this was an urgent need for survival next to giant China. By and large, this problem is still relevant. People living in Europe will never understand the depth of this problem. For most Russians, China is somewhere very far away, and pictures of how the Chinese assimilate Russians do not arise. And the European peoples do not know how to think for many years ahead. Asians (and especially the Chinese) usually think decades ahead. And this is not bravado before the Europeans. This is the normal state of the Asian brain. In Kazakhstan, state programs are signed for almost 50 years, in China, state programs are signed for 100 years. In Russia, only now, following the example of Kazakhstan, they began to engage in long-term planning. But if a Tatar or Kazakh can easily imagine what his country will be like in 10-20 years and how he will personally live, then the Europeans will laugh and answer the question: "What will your country be like in N years" and say, fuck knows him. Europeans and Asians have very different concepts about time. The events of 500 years ago for a steppe dweller or a Chinese are literally events of yesterday. I have witnessed more than once how two Kazakhs from different clans could fight, finding out whose clan was cooler in some thread in the 13th century. My own mother's grandmother (Uysun clan), having learned that my mother's fiancé (my future father) was from the Argyn clan, was very unhappy and grumbled that “these argyns had taken our horses from us in due time”. She was talking about a minor event three hundred years ago! In Russia, in Altai, a few years ago, archaeologists unearthed a "Scythian princess". Local residents (Turkic-speaking Altaians) made a fuss, demanding to bury the "princess" back and claiming that they were her direct descendants. Archaeologists and historians laughed in their articles, recalling that the Scythian queen was red-haired with Caucasoid features, in contrast to the black-haired Mongoloid Altai. When genetic studies were carried out, it turned out that the Altaians were absolutely right. They really have a lot to do with this woman buried in the Bronze Age, according to DNA analysis ...
              And for Russians, the shooting of the White House in October 1993 is already perceived as events of the times of Tsar Pea. I'm not saying that it is unlikely that the Russians can fight, figuring out whose ancestors of these debaters are cooler - Drevlyans or Polyana ... We have very different categories of time. Hungarians write in their textbooks that the Kazakh steppes are their homeland. Kazakhs have always said that Hungarians are our relatives. Everyone around was laughing. They carried out large-scale DNA research and now no one laughs - the Magyars are really closest to the Kazakhs from the Argyn clan (subgenus “Madiyar”).

              Well, I don’t humiliate Russians. I just have the audacity (in their eyes) to tell them their own story, which they do not want to hear, and which is significantly different from their usual school myths. If you consider this an insult, then for God's sake. You can continue to believe in "victories" over the Golden Horde and represent the entire history of Russia in an exceptionally rosy popular print. But only because of this, Russia is drowning in nationalism, which can split Russia. The USSR has already been fucked up because of the moronic national policy pursued by Moscow, instead of reforming it in time.
            2. Papakiko
              Papakiko 22 July 2013 03: 27
              +1
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              Once the Huns did not finish off the enemies, they left one boy alive, chopping off his hands and feet, and as a result, a wolf came out and conceived from him the descendants who created the Turkic empire and defeated all their enemies. This is the basis of Turkic mythology. The enemies of Yesugei were killed, but Temuchin's jerk was left alive, and in the end they all died at his hand when he became Genghis Khan.

              Forgot about Remus and Romulus (founders of Rome) write. The wolf also fed those, a naive mlynnnnnn. Now wolves in those places only in the zoo can be seen.
  • KG_patriot_last
    KG_patriot_last 21 July 2013 00: 12
    +1
    The Japanese and Germans are only to blame for the fact that they fought according to the ancient in the 20 century ... the last. Any ancient war was fought for the complete destruction, the seizure of women, the killing of descendants, the robbery of property, the theft of slavery.
    Woe to the vanquished.
    And why now the United States can not defeat Afghanistan? Yes, it’s very simple: they are fighting humanely. No matter how much we all love Americans, we must admit that those rare killings of civilians are still not ancient wars ... If the United States wanted it, they would have slaughtered everyone from 0 to 100. But who will give them? The face of the war has changed ...
    For the same reason, I do not understand the statements about the atrocities of the USSR in Europe: the Europeans probably forgot what atrocities are ... Germans and Japanese fought meticulously and traditionally. Fascism is certainly bad, but they cannot be distinguished from the general mass of peoples. They are the same representatives of humanity as Bandera, Romans, Mongols, Indians, Arabs (the fact that Arabs slaughtered everyone in the 6 century who did not agree with their new theology is not a secret for anyone).
    Australian peoples didn’t just kill, they ate enemies, Indians killed their own best warriors, Mexicans still quarter, Arabs cut off their heads, Indians burned alive, 1994-96 blacks slaughtered in millions, the British hung in packs, the Romans forced the enemies to kill each other, the French burned people, and then guillotined. Cruelty is this person. Death is his companion.
  • knn54
    knn54 17 July 2013 08: 30
    +16
    The Japanese are convinced of their uniqueness. No other people in the world spends so much time discussing how incomprehensible the Japanese are for other nations. In 1986, Japanese Prime Minister Yasuhiro Nakosone noted that a large percentage of black and Mexican people in the United States slow down the US economy and make the country less competitive. In the USA, this remark provoked fury, but in Japan it was perceived as an obvious truth. After the occupation of Japan, many children born of Japanese and Americans appeared. Half blacks were sent to Brazil with their mothers.
    The Japanese are also distrustful of their fellow expatriates. For them, those who left Japan ceased to be Japanese forever. If they or their descendants ever want to return to Japan, the attitude towards them will be the same as towards foreigners.
    In Japanese history students, the “exploits” in the occupied territories are practically not consecrated. AND MOST IMPORTANT — if the Nuremberg trials took place in Germany, where Nazism was condemned and military offenders executed, then this was not the case in Japan, and many executioner generals are still national heroes.
    - Death Squad - Detachment 731.
    It has been PRACTICALLY proven that the MASS appearance of encephalitis ticks in the Far East in the 30s was a matter of “specialists” from the detachment. And judging by how the outbreak of encephalitis in Hokkaido was instantly suppressed, the Japanese have an effective remedy for this ailment.
    -Koreans recall that they were even forbidden to speak their native language, ordered to change their native names to Japanese (the policy of "assimilation") - approximately 80% of Koreans adopted Japanese names. Girls were stolen into brothels, in 1939 5 million people were forcibly mobilized into industry. Korean cultural monuments were taken away or destroyed.
    Practically the entire heavy industry and most of the hydropower plants in North Korea, and railways in the South and North of Korea, were built by the Japanese. Moreover, the Japanese strived in every possible way and are striving to prove their kinship with the Koreans and always welcomed the adoption by the Koreans of Japanese surnames. It came to the point that among the most distinguished samurai, honored to be marked with name plates in the Yasukuni Temple, there are several Korean generals ...
    The Japanese in 1965 already paid South Korea a huge sum of compensation at that time, now North Korea is already demanding $ 10 billion.
    1. T80UM1
      T80UM1 17 July 2013 10: 31
      +1
      I agree, because of this, the Soviet government deported 50% of Koreans from the Far East to Central Asia.
    2. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 17 July 2013 10: 49
      +1
      Quote: knn54
      Practically the entire heavy industry and most of the hydropower plants in North Korea, and railways in the South and North of Korea, were built by the Japanese. Moreover, the Japanese strived in every possible way and are striving to prove their kinship with the Koreans and always welcomed the adoption by the Koreans of Japanese surnames. It came to the point that among the most distinguished samurai, honored to be marked with name plates in the Yasukuni Temple, there are several Korean generals ...


      Koreans don't like Japanese people sooooooo much. I didn’t communicate with the north, and more than with the southerners. For them, the Japanese are still enemies. And the Japanese do not understand why Koreans treat them this way. The Japanese do believe that Koreans are their kin (albeit distant and heavily wounded). Koreans are also an Altai nation. The Japanese think that Koreans are something like "the Japanese who have been spoiled by the Chinese." A drunken Japanese will prove to a Korean that they are relatives, and a Korean will not agree with this, although he recognizes "Altai" roots.
      By the way, I checked the phrase "we, Kazakhs are your relatives" on absolutely all familiar Japanese, Koreans (Seoul). 100% of Japanese people said "yes, we also know about it." Koreans agreed with this phrase only out of politeness))))
      When I talked to the Japanese that the Japanese had done a lot of things in Korea (I only knew the Korean version of events), the Japanese usually argued, explaining that on the contrary, they had raised the living standards of Koreans, they did not engage in genocide, as in other countries, and only uprooted "Chinese people. "from Koreans. Then I checked on the internet - the Korean population actually doubled in 30 years of Japanese occupation. All modern Korean (without Chinese) culture was established under the Japanese. The Japanese, of course, pursued their policy in Korea harshly, but the hanguki got a lot of nishtyaks. At least, IMHO, the Japanese occupation was more beneficial for Korea than the period of "Chinese domination".
      I didn’t think of talking to the old Koreans about this topic, and the younger generation was brought up on the fact that the Byak Japanese and their national bell were taken as a trophy. In short, they do not like the Japanese. But the main reason why Koreans do not like Japanese is that the Japanese really look down on the Hanguks (like the older brother to the younger). This hurts the Koreans incredibly. And here the Koreans are absolutely right.
      1. T80UM1
        T80UM1 17 July 2013 11: 04
        +2
        As a Korean I will say :) Relations between Russians and Ukrainians by analogy))) And Koreans do not belong to the Altai nationality.
        1. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 17 July 2013 11: 26
          +2
          Quote: T80UM1
          As a Korean I will say :) Relations between Russians and Ukrainians by analogy))) And Koreans do not belong to the Altai nationality.

          Annie hasseio! ))) I studied in South Korea, lived in Seoul, visited many cities and even villages) I met more than once with Koreans, who were the first to start talking about the ties between Koreans and Turks) They even called "Seoul / Seoul" ("new settlement ") cited as evidence of the long-standing relationship of our languages, linking the word" oul "with the Turkic" aul ". Of course, our cultures and genetics are very different from each other, but the Korean language still belongs to the Altai group of languages.
          Japanese, for example, is wildly different from Turkic by ear. But when I took some tutorial on the Japanese language, I came across a sufficient number of common roots for many words in the basic vocabulary, and the structure of sentences is similar. And this despite the fact that I never engaged in comparative linguistics between these languages. It’s just that in the very first hours of training I came across obvious signs that once in ancient times our languages ​​came from the same Altai root.
          Well, and the fact that at one time amused me - Korean soju vodka was the first in Korea to be made by the Horde, when the Genghisids annexed Korea to their empire. Apparently, the Horde could not make hoppy kumis in the conditions of a small number of pastures, they had to drive alcohol from local cereals. Even in the alcoholic theme, our cultures touch each other)))
          1. T80UM1
            T80UM1 17 July 2013 11: 34
            +4
            Salaam Aleikum!
            Koreans descended from nomads agree, but as for the Altai family of peoples, this is not so little. Language may be, but not nationality. I didn’t know about vodka ...
          2. Hleb
            Hleb 17 July 2013 20: 57
            +1
            Marek, why did he study there? What is the purpose?
            1. Marek Rozny
              Marek Rozny 21 July 2013 03: 16
              +1
              government project management in the IT field.
      2. Mikhail3
        Mikhail3 17 July 2013 14: 03
        +4
        Japan does not have its own resources. It's good to find a "relative" and shout: BROTHER !!! shake his pod. To build, for example, the railway and metallurgy ... to take out more metal and in general everything that can be grabbed. Beware of narrow-eyed "relatives" on yours blaming ...
      3. de_monSher
        de_monSher 18 July 2013 03: 41
        0
        that the Koreans are their relatives (albeit distant and very well-worn). Koreans are also an Altai nation.


        Very controversial statement, Neighbor. The Japanese are trying to prove their Altai roots - yes. For example, since the 80s, a friend of mine, an archaeologist from Japan Kato-san, stuck out in our area = he practically lived in Tashkent and Samarkand = and in your country in Kazakhstan ... he dug everything, dug, tied everything together, and tied, tried to prove something ... *) Let's just say ... there is a fairly high degree of probability that the Japanese have a connection with the Altai family. By the way, this is evidenced at least by the fact that the true Japanese, those who do not admire the beauty of Fuji or sakura = and there are quite a lot of them =, look at ummm ... all the same, the newcomers "Japanese" sideways and downward. After all, Japanese culture, let's say, from the 14th to the 19th centuries, is an alien culture and absolutely artificial. And ... that is, "Japanese" culture is actually a "remake" of the 11th, 12th centuries = So, perhaps, the clash of the Manamoto and Taira clans, it was, to some extent skirmish between old and new Japan =. Centers of old Japanese culture remained, for example, in Okinawa. And the newcomers "Japanese", the true Japanese - oh, how they do not like. And, by the way, the culture of the true Japanese is closer to the oceanic one. The Polynesians are related to them ... *) So the Horde's attempt to capture Japan, the one when Kamikaze helped the Japanese, was not the first, I think ... *)

        And as for the kinship of the Japanese, Kazakhs, and Kirghiz, based on the proximity of loges and language constructions = here I agree with you, surprisingly there are a lot of such constructions, common roots = so this, by the way, does not mean anything at all. Sanskrit also gave a bunch of his designs to all the languages ​​of the Indo-European language family. So what? From this, Devanagari did not become a prototype of the Cyrillic or Latin alphabet ... *)

        As for relations between the Japanese, Koreans and Chinese ... nevertheless, everything is more complicated than you want to imagine. Koreans are really perceived there as South Asian Jews. And do not like the Chinese and Japanese. Well, the Chinese themselves and the Japanese cannot stand each other's spirit. But the Koreans, whether they forget the rancor and arrogance of both the Japanese and the Chinese ...
    3. Turdaun
      Turdaun 17 July 2013 11: 12
      +5
      AND MOST IMPORTANT, if the Nuremberg Trials took place in Germany, where Nazism was condemned and military offenders executed, then this was not the case in Japan, and many executioner generals are still national heroes. [/ Quote]

      Dear, here you are unfortunately not right, just the trial over militaristic Japan was, or rather, over its war crimes, the so-called "TOKYAN PROCESS":

      The list of defendants of the Tokyo process is a list of persons who were found guilty by the International Military Tribunal for the Far East of committing crimes against the peace of the Russian, humanity, mass murders. Also indicated are the persons in respect of whom the judicial investigation was terminated.
      The creation of a tribunal for Japanese war criminals was provided for in the Cairo [1] and Potsdam declarations [2], but after the occupation of Japan, the Allies did not have a single opinion on who exactly and for which specific crimes should be judged. Despite this, according to the order of the Commander-in-Chief of the Allied Occupation Forces, General Douglas MacArthur, arrests of war crimes suspects were carried out. A total of 39 people were detained - mostly cabinet members of General Hideki Tojo.

      Douglas MacArthur issued a special proclamation, where he ordered the formation of the International Military Tribunal for the Far East. On the same day, he adopted the Statute of the Tribunal, which indicated how the tribunal will be formed, what crimes it considers and how it will function. The model of this document was the corresponding document of the Nuremberg Tribunal.

      April 25, 1946, according to Article 7 of the Charter, this document was officially published.

      During the process, 818 open court hearings and 131 courtroom sessions were held; the tribunal received 4356 documentary evidence and 1194 testimonies (of which 419 were heard directly by the tribunal). The last meeting of the tribunal took place in 1948.
      As in the Nuremberg trials, all charges were divided into three categories: A, B and C.

      Category A [3] (paragraphs 1-36) included accusations of Crimes Against the World (English) Russian, planning and waging an aggressive war, violation of international law and was applied only against the top leadership of Japan.

      Category B [4] (paragraphs 37-52) included charges of mass killings

      Category C [5] (paragraphs 53-55) - allegations of crimes against the customs of war and crimes against humanity, applied to Japanese of any rank.
      There were a total of 29 accused. Yosuke Matsuoka (Foreign Minister) and Admiral Osami Nagano died during the trial from natural causes. Sumei Okawa (philosopher, ideologist of Japanese militarism) experienced a nervous breakdown during the trial and began to behave strangely, showing signs of mental ill health. He was excluded from the list of defendants. Fumimaro Konoe - (Prime Minister of Japan in 1937-1939 and 1940-1941) committed suicide on the eve of his arrest by taking poison.

      Seven defendants were sentenced to death by hanging and executed on December 23, 1948 in the courtyard of Sugamo Prison in Tokyo. 16 accused were sentenced to life imprisonment. Three (Koiso, Shiratori and Umezu) died in prison, the remaining 13 were pardoned in 1955. Shigenori Togo, Minister of Foreign Affairs and Minister of Great East Asia Affairs, was sentenced to 20 years in prison; died in prison in 1949. Mamoru Shigemitsu, ambassador to the USSR, was sentenced to 7 years in prison; In 1950, he was pardoned and subsequently became Minister of Foreign Affairs again.
    4. Pimply
      Pimply 17 July 2013 15: 36
      0
      Quote: knn54
      Practically proven

      Proven, or practically proven? Who, how?

      This is not to say that the Japanese did not conduct experiments, this is not to delve into pseudo-history.
  • Lech from ZATULINKI
    Lech from ZATULINKI 17 July 2013 08: 33
    +5
    japs killed people like on a flipper
  • lawyer
    lawyer 17 July 2013 08: 48
    +11
    The article is correct, even the Japanese did medical experiments on people, I personally watched a dock movie, my hair stood on end, a very cruel nation. soldier
  • Pashhenko Nikolay
    Pashhenko Nikolay 17 July 2013 08: 48
    +11
    Pure animals. And the world still pity them because of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Or maybe they still deserve it?
  • Fox
    Fox 17 July 2013 08: 48
    +16
    the author walked through the summits. without recalling what the Yapes did with the Russians on Sakhalin and the Far East after the revolution. These scum should be leveled, not negotiate with them.
    1. polly
      polly 17 July 2013 10: 05
      +14
      Primorye will never forget their atrocities! This is how they hosted in my hometown.
  • stroporez
    stroporez 17 July 2013 08: 51
    +5
    there is a feeling that they, Bandera, are individuals from the regional army, American "cavalrymen" are close relatives ..............
    1. KG_patriot_last
      KG_patriot_last 17 July 2013 09: 08
      +3
      they forgot the actual ordinary German fascists ...
  • Pushkar
    Pushkar 17 July 2013 09: 15
    +8
    During WW2, an officer of the Imperial Japanese Army could not become a senior officer unless he became a samurai. At least that's how it was in the navy. For this, the officer had to undergo the "kimotori" ritual, ie. cut and eat the liver of a still living enemy. They are cannibals.
    1. Lech from ZATULINKI
      Lech from ZATULINKI 17 July 2013 09: 27
      +12
      Not only cannibals but also infanticides. (NANKIN)
      1. Muadipus
        Muadipus 17 July 2013 10: 45
        +13
        Awful photo. I just thought we were living here, getting smart, outraged, some problems were being buried, there were all sorts of housing and communal services, Putin, Navalny, Bolotnye and Snowy, etc. etc. And here are such photos ... We forgot that the war is very scary. Highly!!! We forgot a lot ... Forgot. And the reality is that all this can happen again.
        1. Voodoo
          Voodoo 17 July 2013 11: 02
          +7
          So do not drop a bomb after that on the Japs (((
        2. samuraisinto
          samuraisinto 17 July 2013 11: 03
          -10%
          100 years ago, the war with the Circassians, then the Chechens didn’t come up with the word not so long ago, the Chechens came out with Germany in 2014 and this is not a joke the war for resources! You can predict the outcome of Russia revolution in 2017 (((((Lord, I’d like to live in an abundance of food goods rations rations! not what do you think oil is endless in stocks !?
          1. Muadipus
            Muadipus 17 July 2013 11: 13
            +19
            Dear, the Russian language is great and mighty, and it provides punctuation marks, well, there are all sorts of "commas" and etc. Use them, then it will be easier to understand your thought in your posts. Best wishes.
            1. 3 inches.
              3 inches. 17 July 2013 20: 46
              +6
              you are kindly with him. I haven’t even a hint of thought ....
          2. smile
            smile 17 July 2013 16: 05
            +2
            samuraisinto
            As I understand it, this comment of yours is a pathetic attempt to inflate the idiotic rumors that 2017 will happen again in 1917? are the same idiotic rumors about the end of the world not enough? Not all the fools have gone extinct? :))) Although, of course, judging by the non-depletion of the ranks of MMM fans, idiocy is an indestructible thing ... :))))
            1. samuraisinto
              samuraisinto 18 July 2013 15: 56
              -5
              Now Russia owes Germany 120 billion $ the more debt is returned the more
              it becomes in the world of secret sophisticated Germanmassonian lodges (the current owner
              Russia-Muller, the head of Gazprom!)
              In 2014, the first world war with Germany will be BUDDET (the first, as the new
              era new millennium)
              the situation is getting worse and there WILL BE a revolution! but I was lifted up by a west-west trap
              Lenin is a German spy!
              and the east is glorifying yang and nin-Slav! comrade! your political task is that BUDDET
              in 2017, not the great October socialist revolution, but the great cultural hieroglyphic revolution!
              look at the example of any church in Uryupinsk - in 1929, the former priests of the Communists did not completely destroy it
              for Christianity in the 1990s-saving of building materials and this is the Cathedral of Christ the Savior in the Kremlin a significant place and then the swamp 50 to 50
              1929 plus 50 = 1980 forza speculation the beginning of capitalism plus 50 = 2030 = (((((sob
              1. de_monSher
                de_monSher 18 July 2013 16: 03
                +5
                samuraisinto

                You would, comrade ... urgently, just like a bullet, sit down at your desk, and learn the grammar of the Russian language.

                And then, it seems that you, by the special grace of the head physician of your local psychiatric hospital, have been given a netbook so that you do not run amok, but sit quietly in the corner and crush Claudia, like the same cockroaches in the head of the blonde with whom she bought crayons. .. *))
              2. Turdaun
                Turdaun 19 July 2013 14: 09
                +1
                Ravings of a madman...
          3. Turdaun
            Turdaun 19 July 2013 14: 07
            0
            Incomprehensible rubbish ...
    2. Muadipus
      Muadipus 17 July 2013 10: 30
      +10
      Quote: Pushkar
      During WW2, an officer of the Imperial Japanese Army could not become a senior officer unless he became a samurai. At least that's how it was in the navy. For this, the officer had to undergo the "kimotori" ritual, ie. cut and eat the liver of a still living enemy. They are cannibals.

      And if the enemy drunk got caught and his liver is ceyrotic? Conclusion: The more you drink vodka, the nastier the fate of the samurai! :)
      1. Igarr
        Igarr 17 July 2013 13: 28
        +3
        So, Muadipus ...
        Do the Japanese - sake - drink warm from the bald?
        Such a culture is a warm liver ... warm vodka ... hot eggs, as a contraceptive. (You know the way - to hold the testicles in hot water, the sperm cells die - purely Japanese.
        Continue ... or enough ..
        sushi, skiyaki, puffer ... Hiroshima, Fukushima ... everything is so hot. Piping hot.
        Culture, damn it.
        And not sop ... chew.
        Joke.
        1. smile
          smile 17 July 2013 17: 37
          0
          Igarr
          Well, finally, the Japs more than sake respect the net (there are a lot of varieties up to 45 degrees) and Avamori (up to 60 degrees) ... and how decent people drink what is stronger - chilled ... :))) but in general, they are not very fools to drink, no less than ours ... :))))
          1. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny 17 July 2013 21: 03
            +1
            drunk japanese likes to fight. a drunk Korean simply smiles to the whole world))) the Japanese are much stronger than Koreans regarding drinking. can drink dohrena. Koreans break quickly. Japanese drink less, Koreans can drink their soju every day. even women or at lunchtime. drink a bottle of 18-20 degrees and then arbayten. and if a Japanese starts drinking, it will stop only when the alcohol runs out or when it is completely full of alcohol. here the Japanese are like Kazakhs, Mongols and Russians.
            Europeans also drink differently. Frenchmen, Italians know how to drink up to a certain point. in sisyu drunk you will see their hell. Finns and Germans are still alcoholics. Czechs really prefer to drink beer and it's hard to talk them into Russian vodka. and Bulgarians would rather indulge in wine than vodka. Kazakh, Russian or Mongol will choose vodka, "to make it go faster" laughing It’s hard to lure Koreans with vodka, and the Japanese will never give up. The Chinese are also lovers of kick in the trash. Get drunk quickly, but do not know how to stop on time like Koreans.
        2. 3 inches.
          3 inches. 17 July 2013 20: 48
          +1
          warm sake is drunk by those who don’t have money. So that it’s stolen faster. And since that's all. Cold
          1. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny 17 July 2013 21: 23
            +1
            I'm not Japanese, but I like sake warm. it tastes good. and Korean soju can be easily drunk warm. but the Chinese rice "acetone" even frozen to drink is not very pleasant. but the Chinese beer tastes better than the Korean one. even in Korea I tried some local "folk" brew, forgot the name. nicho so.
            there was a funny moment: Korean friends rush in to me and shout to me: "We have found Russian vodka especially for you!" I was delighted, and they give me some tiny bottle with the inscription "KGB Vodka" with a fruity taste and strength of 15 degrees, South Asian production, gyyyyy)))) well, essno, thanked them for their care)
            In general, Russian vodka ("Stolichnaya") was not there in all stores and was very expensive. But Dutch vodka at 45 degrees was relatively cheap.
            But the most expensive drink for me was the Kazakstan brandy, which we asked in advance from all Kazakhs who flew to Seoul. We shared it only with a select few)
            Another funny thing about Korean alcohol: they have the main brand of beer "OB". At first I laughed, I said that we in Kazakhstan sell such feminine hygiene products (then there was still constant advertising on TV). And then I came across a beer called "Caffrey" ... Spelled slightly differently in English, but pronounced almost exactly like "Carefree" pads. The only thing missing was the Tampax beer. The beer is good, but nothing outstanding.
            Well, Asians also love all sorts of tinctures with ginseng, snakes and other "penises of the Red Book animals." Well, everyone knows that. I also tried Vietnamese vodka with the blood of some snake. Vodka is like vodka. I did not understand the trick. Probably, the Vietnamese use it as a placebo.
  • Terrible ensign
    Terrible ensign 17 July 2013 09: 19
    +1
    Thank you for reminding!..
  • Asan Ata
    Asan Ata 17 July 2013 10: 06
    +6
    In Alma-Ata, we had many Japanese prisoners of war, built houses, dams, I must say, with high quality, they still stand. Almost none of them returned to Japan.
    1. samuraisinto
      samuraisinto 17 July 2013 10: 16
      -22%
      you drive! where is the Japanese surname! or the Fritz bosses in Russia told them to become Kazakhs!? But the Hanshrist Hitler Marxist fritzurs are chasing their German surnames throughout Russia — family clans and think about whose colony Russia is German or Japanese — if the Japanese didn’t make hara-kiri in captured went to the towers of the NKVD
      1. Asan Ata
        Asan Ata 17 July 2013 10: 20
        +12
        Learn to speak Russian, for starters. If so curious, come and show.
        1. samuraisinto
          samuraisinto 17 July 2013 10: 24
          -17%
          hakamada first appeared in the era of imperialism secondly the daughter of a communist do not be shy do not be a tambourine give examples!
      2. Kasym
        Kasym 17 July 2013 16: 45
        +6
        Samyray, respect decency! You are not talking with a peer. They drive the bulls to a watering place, if that.
        Asan Ata, and I remember the water from our (Alma-Ata) water during the Union - a water pipe from trees (sawed a tree in half, then hollowed out the cores, then joined together, the pipe is ready - made and thought up by the Japanese). I mean the water pipe from the water intake to City .Environmentally and without loss of interest. And now they put the iron, after the collapse of the Union.
        1. samuraisinto
          samuraisinto 18 July 2013 15: 58
          0
          simashita shitsure! in Japanese, excuse me please!
    2. T80UM1
      T80UM1 17 July 2013 10: 29
      +3
      Yes, I know, but as for not returning, this is not so, almost all of them were interned home in the 50s
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 17 July 2013 11: 01
        +3
        I can’t say for sure, most of them returned home, but I often heard that sometime some Japanese prisoners stayed in the KZ of their own free will. And now in Astana I have a Japanese friend Tsuyoshi from Japan who clearly decided to marry a Kazakh woman and stay here. He is convinced that the Japanese and Kazakhs are relatives.
        And they built a lot in the KZ. And really high quality.
        And in modern times, when they finished building a bridge in East Kazakhstan (a year or two) ahead of schedule, they asked them if this would affect the quality - the Japanese construction manager was surprised by the question and answered the journalist briefly but exhaustively: “No. We're Japanese. "
        1. T80UM1
          T80UM1 17 July 2013 11: 09
          +3
          there were only a few, about them, by the way, I looked at the report on the swag, the rest returned home
          1. samuraisinto
            samuraisinto 17 July 2013 11: 12
            -7
            you write it here, but why I have never heard on TV or seen newspapers in books — moral means someone is cunning, and what is the point of the media, even in the era of publicity! keep silent about the Japanese actually !?
            1. T80UM1
              T80UM1 17 July 2013 11: 27
              +7
              I did not understand anything from what you had in mind, rephrase.
              1. samuraisinto
                samuraisinto 17 July 2013 11: 30
                -1
                I have never heard from the official sources about the above - a question! why!? and where - I say this already 3 times! last names of the Japanese! especially!
                1. T80UM1
                  T80UM1 17 July 2013 11: 36
                  +2
                  I wrote that I saw the broadcast on TV, that Japanese lives in Astana, that’s all I remember.
                  1. Marek Rozny
                    Marek Rozny 17 July 2013 11: 58
                    +3
                    ... A cadet of the imperial military school Ahiko Tetsuro was not listed in any of the military lists. After all, he never held a rifle in his hands, did not manage to become a soldier when the war began and ended.

                    He was only 15 years old when he, the fourth son of a large family of hereditary fishermen, was sent to study at the Imperial Military School by the will of the Emperor of Japan.

                    In the summer of 1945, Ahiko arrived at the place of study in the city of Yamagata on southern Sakhalin. But the cadets of the school did not start classes. A few days later, on August 9, the USSR declared war on Japan. The leadership of the imperial school soon fled, leaving the boys to their fate ...
                    The Soviet-Japanese war lasted only three weeks. On August 2, 1945, Japan surrendered. South Sakhalin became part of the Soviet Union. The city of Yamagata became Nevelskoy. And the Japanese boy, who did not wait for his father’s boat, was sentenced to 10 years of hard labor in Stalin’s camps ...
                    A puny Japanese teenager was dragged in goods from Sakhalin to Kazakhstan. And threw in the mines of Karlag ...
                    He went through all the circles of hell. And survived! Perhaps because the name Tetsuro consists of one character meaning “iron”?
                    In 1954, after the death of Stalin, Tetsuru was "released" with a certificate and a mandate to leave the USSR within three months. With this certificate, a poor, ragged Japanese tried to find his way home. He wrote letters to Japan, to Moscow. I have not received any answers.
                    And humbled himself. Met a woman who became his wife. Katya Krause, German, from a family of repressed. Two outcasts only because of nationality found each other and warmed. In 1983 (!) Ahiko finally received a passport and became a citizen of Kazakhstan.
                    Only at the beginning of the 90s did the relatives find the forgotten Japanese. And two years later, after 50 years of separation, he set foot on the homeland of Hokkaido. This meeting was broadcast on all channels of Japanese television.
                    But no matter how his relatives pleaded, he did not stay in Japan. He returned home, in Aktas, to his wife and children.
                    “I am a happy man,” Ahiko repeated, “very happy ...”
                    1. Marek Rozny
                      Marek Rozny 17 July 2013 12: 01
                      +1
                      From another article:

                      "Until recently, the prisoner of war Ito Minoru lived in Uzunagash, who left for Japan with his family in 2000. Miura Masao, who worked as a gamekeeper during the Kunayev era, still lives in Bakanas."
                      1. smile
                        smile 17 July 2013 16: 18
                        +1
                        Marek Rozny
                        Yes, there were quite a few such cases.
                    2. smile
                      smile 17 July 2013 16: 17
                      +5
                      Marek Rozny
                      In 1983, he could not become a subject of Kazakhstan due to the fact that the state of Kazakhstan did not exist. Tale of that. that a foreigner released from prison without a passport and scribbling letters to Japan, Moscow and other instances could live without the attention of the authorities and meet with a German ... no more than a fairy tale ... and you understand that perfectly. Although the story is beautiful.
                      For reference, a person with a certificate and a mandate to leave home without documents and will not be allowed to cross the border ... not a single party ... and will not be allowed to go out on all four sides ... and even then .... :)))
                      person. making up a story is not just a liar. but a liar who did not represent those realities .....
                      In this regard, it is extremely difficult to pick out the seeds of truth from the heap of lies of the author of the article ... :))))
                      1. Rider
                        Rider 17 July 2013 19: 01
                        +1
                        Quote: smile
                        no more than a fairy tale ..


                        removed from the tongue.
                      2. Marek Rozny
                        Marek Rozny 17 July 2013 19: 57
                        +1
                        http://www.stengazeta.net/article.html?article=3101
                        Here is a normal article, you can read it.
                        And here's another http://www.stengazeta.net/article.html?article=3058
                        It is a very real person. Like a gritsa, even something happens in life that could never happen.

                        http://www.ktk.kz/ru/news/video/2013/05/31/22895 - а вот тут сам японский посол говорит об этом японце. он оказывается только-только переехал в Японию.
                      3. Marek Rozny
                        Marek Rozny 17 July 2013 20: 09
                        0
                        and regarding the "passport of Kazakhstan", it means, essno, the Soviet passport of a citizen of the Kazakh SSR.
                        and I’ll just remind you that until 1975 not all Soviet citizens had passports. most collective farmers did not have it at all.
                      4. Rider
                        Rider 17 July 2013 23: 02
                        0
                        Quote: Marek Rozny
                        passport of a citizen of the Kazakh SSR.


                        nonsense again.

                        passport of a citizen the USSR uniform for all republics.
                      5. Yarbay
                        Yarbay 18 July 2013 07: 45
                        0
                        Quote: Rider
                        nonsense again.

                        the passport of a citizen of the USSR is the same for all republics.

                        Yes, no need to find fault)))
                        Personally, I understood what Marek meant, I think you too !!
                      6. Rider
                        Rider 18 July 2013 13: 13
                        -2
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        Personally, I understood what Marek meant, I think you too !!


                        well it is.

                        I realized that tovarisch, zaviraet.

                        and how he mentioned about "unsuccessful" wars with Turkey, and even a song.

                        so unfortunate that they threw the Turks out of the Crimea, the Balkans and the Caucasus.
                        Well, some failures, blin.
                        we are so unfortunate that we have crushed the POL-CONTINENT for ourselves, and REGULARLY knock out the teeth of everyone who turns up by the arm.

                        Well, to cut ALL who are above the trolley axis, yeah, in this we did not succeed.
                      7. Marek Rozny
                        Marek Rozny 18 July 2013 18: 23
                        +2
                        Ryder, what is the lie? I have already given not only links to articles about this Japanese, but also a link to a video where he talks about him Japanese Ambassador to Kazakhstan! You still say that this is a conspiracy of Marek, the ambassador and the Kazakh media.

                        The period of the Russian-Turkish wars is very long. Let me remind you that even Peter the Great was once in Turkish captivity and the Moldovan ruler Cantemir (by the way, Chingizid) had to pay a ransom for the Russian emperor. Yes, these wars ended with the fact that they forced the Ottoman Empire to give up the Crimea, but this does not mean that this was a walk filled with exceptionally brilliant victories. There were also wars with the Turks, where the Russian armies were smashed to smithereens. Let me remind you that by and large all the Russian armies sent by Ivan the Terrible to the Crimea were completely destroyed. The Russian army of the Crimeans brilliantly defeated in the battle at Molody, but in general, attempts to capture the Crimea were a failure. Crimea went to Russia not for the battles on the territory of the Crimea, but for the successes of the Russian army in the Balkans. It was "there" that they captured the Crimean Peninsula.

                        Well, if you doubt that the Russians could have slaughtered women and children, then remember how Suvorov cut out the Kuban completely, or how during the civil war both Russian sides killed captured opponents.
                        And once again I recall how our Soviet army sent a million Afghans into the world in 10 years. Of course, they didn’t cut it out, but simply in volleys of MLRS erased settlements. Of course, there were Mujahideen, but there was a civilian population. Moreover, there were much more civilians than wars.

                        And I am not saying that the Russian army (but not the Soviet one) was the weakest in the world, I just remind you that it was not omnipotent. The Tsarist army went through a bunch of wars, including the one with the Japanese in the early 20th century. And in 1945 it was not the Russian army that won, but the Soviet one. In my family, both grandfathers have medals for the victory over Japan. Zadolbali already that they misinterpret my words and attribute my statements regarding the Russian Tsarist army to the SOVIET army. You have the same trouble as many Russians consider the concepts "Russian" and "Soviet" one and the same. What a fig? Why are "Soviet soldiers" called "Russian soldiers" in Russia? Okay, Americans or Europeans. If they had said so, I would not even have led my ear. But when their own people allow such a substitution of concepts, this is in no way.
                      8. Marek Rozny
                        Marek Rozny 18 July 2013 18: 23
                        +1
                        But when their own people allow such a substitution of concepts, this is in no way. Or call them "Soviet soldiers". Yes, the Russians were the majority. But then why do the Russians avoid the phrases “the Russian army was defeated in the Uman cauldron in 1941”, “Russian soldiers of the 53rd division fled from the battlefield in the fall of 41”? In such cases, it is usually always said "the Soviet army was defeated" or simply "the soldiers fled from the battlefield." Here it is inconvenient for you to remind your nationality. But when Panfilov's men stop the Germans, then already the word "Soviet soldiers" is used dozens of times less often than the phrase "Russian soldiers", or it is generally thought that the Germans were stopped by the mythical "Siberians", which were not at all in the days of the German offensive near Moscow It was.
                        Let's call the servicemen of the Red (Soviet) Army "Soviet soldiers", especially if there are not all ethnic Russians there. There were no Russian national units in the Red Army and in the SA. There were separate national Kazakh, Kyrgyz, Tajik, Azerbaijani units (for example, the "101st Kazakh Rifle Brigade") or the "1st Moscow Rifle Brigade". This is a different matter.
                        Yes, the Kazakhs call the units formed in Kazakhstan, Kazakh / Kazakhstani, but this is to emphasize that not only one Russian people fought, as many here think. If I am not mistaken, by 1943 40% of the Soviet army were non-Slavs. At least 80 million people (and there are figures of 100 million) out of 195 million were in the occupation zone (Ukraine, Belarus, part of the RSFSR, the Baltic states, Moldova). Therefore, at the turning point of the war in the Red Army, there was a significant number of non-European draftees. And it was with their participation that the Red Army began to return its western lands. I do not call the Soviet army - the Russian army. The Russian army is an army of Russian princes and tsars.
  • smile
    smile 17 July 2013 16: 08
    0
    Asan Ata
    Has everyone died? Strange ... abnormal mortality ... almost all returned from Siberia ... mortality was lower than among Germans ...
  • samuraisinto
    samuraisinto 17 July 2013 10: 13
    -8
    they burned Japan with a nuclear bomb, they didn’t abandon the flag or the emperor, unlike the rest of the world! not a single American soldier in the Japanese islands possessed fear of children and women who knew bushido! ready to tie up with igrants and to death! not a single nation has this
    1. Middle-brother
      Middle-brother 17 July 2013 10: 22
      +5
      Quote: samuraisinto
      not a single American soldier in the Japanese islands landed in fear of children and women who know bushido!

      Americans just didn’t have time, and few people had a clue about bushido
    2. samuraisinto
      samuraisinto 17 July 2013 10: 23
      -9
      in Russia, the emperor and his German wife left for Hitlerland in China, the beast people they made their emperor pamidors grow up - why kill the horse that feeds you
      1. Tambov we ...
        Tambov we ... 17 July 2013 21: 24
        +4
        Lord, there is the Russian language !!! Express yourself on it, with all the punctuation marks, build your thoughts in accordance with the reader, and not BE-ME ... And write the words correctly, without mistakes ... "pamidors"
    3. kostiknet
      kostiknet 17 July 2013 11: 17
      +4
      Quote: samuraisinto
      ready to get in touch with the players and to death! no nation has such a thing

      And you, uneducated friend, have you read the history of the Second World War, except for (Yusovsky comics)? About how our people went to enemy tanks with a grenade, a bottle with a combustible mixture, or with a lousy bottle of machine oil (to "close up" the triplex tank and give their comrades a CHANCE for life)! Or were they all "samurai"?
      1. samuraisinto
        samuraisinto 17 July 2013 11: 22
        -22%
        let's analyze, all the people of Russia in 1941 are tied up with explosive packages and go to the Fritz and ... but the story is different ... from the back of the fence the death squad is ahead of the Fritz, and in general it does not go an hour before, but for centuries from the religion of philosophy in the philosophy of Christianity, humility to the enemy that the Communists did not have time to uproot from the Russian people by the way Fritz in the form of Peter the Great and brought Christianity
        1. Simon
          Simon 17 July 2013 14: 10
          +9
          You know the history of the Great Patriotic War badly, there was no SMERSH in 1941, it appeared much later and it was not used in barrage detachments.
        2. ia-ai00
          ia-ai00 17 July 2013 21: 04
          +2
          Something you think is too early to argue on this site, dear samuraisinto! You should read more books and watch historical, documentary films, rather than comics about the Second World War, the production of SyshA, and only then you can talk.
          1. Essenger
            Essenger 21 July 2013 18: 30
            +4
            Quote: ia-ai00
            You should read more books and watch historical, documentary films, and not comics about the Second World War, production of SUSHYa


            only production of the ussr / russia?
        3. Tambov we ...
          Tambov we ... 17 July 2013 21: 31
          +2
          Read the Russian language textbook, writer.
        4. Turdaun
          Turdaun 19 July 2013 14: 28
          +2
          Samurai, for a start read the LETTER ... Read You are IMPOSSIBLE.
  • Muadipus
    Muadipus 17 July 2013 10: 21
    +6
    Pity for oneself and the enemy is the highest insult in their culture. They do not regret themselves, that in everyday life, that in disasters, and naturally in battle, what we expect from them in relations with the enemy. If their lives are nothing, then the enemies are generally a weed. It must be understood that pity and compassion are not peculiar to this nation.

    Thanks a lot to the author for the reminder. History must be remembered, and such a stone must be carved.
    1. samuraisinto
      samuraisinto 17 July 2013 10: 33
      -9
      Buddhism says life is a misery and death (not punishment but deliverance from
      suffering and punishment! in fact and how the West-West trap differs from the East Slav Slavic yang and Nin
    2. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 17 July 2013 11: 15
      +4
      Quote: Muadipus
      Pity for oneself and the enemy is the highest insult in their culture. They do not regret themselves, that in everyday life, that in disasters, and naturally in battle, what we expect from them in relations with the enemy. If their lives are nothing, then the enemies are generally a weed. It must be understood that pity and compassion are not peculiar to this nation.

      I almost agree, but I will correct - "pity and compassion are not characteristic of this nation" only during the war. In peacetime, these are people who will accept a neighbor as he is, will share someone else's grief, know how to be compassionate and be generous. The Japanese always and a lot provide assistance to different states. At the same time, they do not do it in exchange for political or economic concessions. It's just because you need help. They never spared money for humanitarian aid. And they will never reproach or recall this. The ability to empathize with another person is very well developed among the Japanese. What empathy for people! The Japanese can stare for hours at a beautifully lying cow cake, and earn a year to spend money on the opportunity to watch the arrival of birds in a country far from Japan. One of my Japanese Kent can loudly express delight when a simple drop "somehow in a special way" flows from a beer mug, and will photograph this drop from all sides and proudly show how he caught this moment. I am far from such a worldview. I don't get into these joys. Probably because we (Kazakhs, Russians, Anglo-Saxons) are inferior to the Japanese in the ability to see beauty and enjoy the world around us. And how they decorate even ordinary breakfasts! This is a nation of special aesthetics.
      1. Muadipus
        Muadipus 17 July 2013 11: 37
        +8
        Thanks for the amendment addition. I agree with the above. plus. I personally am new to the Japanese, judging more by books and films. One thing is clear that they are completely different and their culture is diametrically opposed to ours. And the portrait of a Japanese friend described by you, I painted in the best traditions of Hollywood: - such an esthetic killer in a tuxedo who will slowly cut his throat and photograph with admiration, a trickle of blood flowing down the victim’s body and so dramatically falling to the ground, irrigating the petals, amazing beauty, white Freesia. ...
        1. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 17 July 2013 11: 51
          +5
          Quote: Muadipus
          such an aesthetic killer in a tuxedo who will slowly cut his throat and photograph with admiration, a trickle of blood flowing down the victim’s body and falling so dramatically on the ground, irrigating the petals of stunning beauty, white Freesia. ...

          gyyyy, I have the same associations when I come across this Japanese mania to take a shot of all kinds of dick and enjoy it))))
          1. Igarr
            Igarr 17 July 2013 13: 48
            +3
            Got it, Marek ...
            About the feature.
            For hours staring at a drop of beer ... and the Dutch for hours staring at naked, fat women in the paintings.
            And the world stares for hours at the elusive smile of Gioconda.
            We are ready to stare at the icons for hours - even if it's a remake.
            The Japanese will see beauty in Fuji ... but they will not see beauty in the steppes of Kazakhstan, in the mountains of the Tien Shan, in the severity of the Pamirs, in the discreet softness of the Central Russian Plain. In the beauty of the Arctic.
            We are all humans.
            And, two are not the same.
            Each of us is special.
            One thing in common - we are children of God. and the inhabitants of the earth.
            ..
            ..
            Hollywood ... Silence of the Lambs, eh?
            1. Marek Rozny
              Marek Rozny 17 July 2013 14: 31
              +2
              Hi Igarr! )
              A big difference though. Kazakhs perceive the surrounding picture as a whole, and always miss the details. The Japanese are the opposite. They get hung up on details and poorly perceive the whole picture.
              Question: - How do you like this beer?
              Kazakh response: G_no, not beer. The taste is disgusting.
              Japanese answer: Good beer, very beautiful foam.
              German answer: So-so beer, but few.

              Different cultures, different perceptions of the surrounding reality.
              1. Cat
                Cat 18 July 2013 00: 04
                +2
                Quote: Marek Rozny

                A big difference though. Kazakhs perceive the surrounding picture as a whole, and always miss the details. The Japanese are the opposite. They get hung up on details and poorly perceive the whole picture.
                Question: - How do you like this beer?
                Kazakh response: G_no, not beer. The taste is disgusting.
                Japanese answer: Good beer, very beautiful foam.
                German answer: So-so beer, but few.

                Different cultures, different perceptions of the surrounding reality.

                Wow, how beautifully said ... straight envy, big green oppressive envy))
                They look at beer. And they see - foam.
                the most gorgeous, awesome, chocolateiest example of Japanese logic in general and worldview in particular. =)
            2. MakSim51ru
              MakSim51ru 19 July 2013 11: 33
              0
              Quote: Igarr
              ... In the beauty of the Arctic ...


              Plus ...
          2. Midshipman
            Midshipman 17 July 2013 14: 41
            +4
            The perversion is complete at first glance, the usual non-Japanese layman. So complete that it causes the only desire to drop a couple of dozen nuclear weapons on their islands and forget about them to hell. Yes, they actually will not be offended)
      2. Vbuben2raza
        Vbuben2raza 17 July 2013 14: 40
        +9
        You poorly know the Japanese ... The Japanese never help their own, they have no sense of mutual assistance. He witnessed: an elderly Japanese man fell from the heat, everyone passed by and did not even pay attention, ours helped. In the mountains, the Japanese abandon their. Non-Japanese children are treated like monkeys, he himself observed as in Russia, in the village. Solnechnoye, Japanese babochniki (they have such a passion for catching butterflies from around the world), thinking that no one sees them scoffed at the boys of about seven, who were interested in foreigners. Adult uncles laughed when one of them pretended to be stabbing at children. But when they saw two riot policemen passing by, they already became white. A lying nation and we have nothing to love and respect. They envy us, but are silent about it - bushido does not allow it. Whenever they get drunk they say: in Russia, life, love ... And we have traditions. And they are the same warriors, some show off remained.
        1. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 17 July 2013 18: 32
          +2
          Now I read in another post on the site:

          "Gari:
          The Japanese mafia - the yakuza - came to the aid of the victims of the earthquake and tsunami. In many prefectures, it was its representatives, and not government officials, who were the first at the scene of the tragedy, helping the wounded and rescuing the injured. The Mafia sent tons of food, water, medicine and warm clothes to evacuation centers for the victims of the earthquake and tsunami. "
      3. de_monSher
        de_monSher 18 July 2013 04: 27
        0
        when a simple drop "somehow in a special way" flows from a beer mug, and will photograph this drop from all sides and proudly show


        A friend of mine, Tatarin, could hunt for a single cockroach for days, then drop a drop of contrast agent = radioactive iodine on his back and put it on a film sensitive in UV or IR in a macro shot ... *)

        Several of my friends, Russians, Ukrainians, are turned on gel mixtures, and suspensions. They can develop different mixtures for months, which with a certain illumination will behave like flashes of supernovae, gas nebulae in space, etc.

        I can cite a lot of such examples ... *) the Japanese have no particular aesthetics - what you brought as an example is the individual characteristics of individuals ... and the nation has nothing to do with it ... *)))
        The maximum that they have minimalism in their blood = but their life has already taught them = and the absolutely indifferent perception of death as a process, as a phenomenon - my jaw dropped out once, when a 7-year-old Japanese boy, with me, quite calmly talked about that if his life does not succeed, then in 20 years he will have to kill himself. For seven years, this is really, strange ... and maximalism doesn’t smell anymore ... *) Rather, fatalism. And if he treats his death this way from childhood, then how will he relate to the death of others? *)
        1. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 19 July 2013 08: 44
          +3
          You are talking about individual enthusiastic people of these nationalities. And the Japanese are all maniacs when it comes to sophisticated aesthetics. Ikebana, the decoration of dishes, waiting for an hour for the sakura blossom and the thrill of looking at other ordinary and unusual things - this is a national feature of the Japanese. If a Kazakh starts looking at horse poop, he will be mistaken for a jerk. And the Japanese will take pictures from all sides, have released a photo album with a million copies, serious societies of lovers of "brown sakura" will be created, they will sing in verse the frailty of the world, about how yesterday's steppe grass has now become a brown handsome man, schoolgirls will walk in horse poop costumes, and TV will broadcast about how long it takes kakakha to look dramatic, but still "alive".
          To understand their troubles with this aesthetics, one must be born in Japan. And in the family of Japanese and Japanese.

          Z.Y. I was afraid of death until the years 4-5. When he suddenly thought about her, he could not sleep until morning. I was afraid. And then his father taught him to be afraid of shameful acts, not death. By school age there was absolutely no fear of death. He ran along the ledge of the roof, jumped from tall trees, maneuvered in the stream of cars. He perfectly understood that it was dangerous, that I could die, but there was absolutely no fear. Thoughts of suicide have never been, puff-pah-pah. But it is no secret that many children and adolescents are prone to suicidal thoughts. Recently, in our KZ, there has been a straightforward fashion for schoolchildren to commit suicide on any trifle :(
          1. FRIGATE2
            FRIGATE2 19 July 2013 22: 08
            +2
            Quote: Marek Rozny
            And the Japanese are completely maniacs in the matter of sophisticated aesthetics

            The Japanese, Koreans, Chinese are excellent copiers. In 1856, a French frigate crashed on the shores of Japan.

            Do you know what detail of the frigate surprised the Japanese?
            A simple bolt and nut are still an innovative invention for fastening materials.

            It may seem to many that now Korea, China, Japan are the most presumptuous, but these dragons are such thanks to their national mentality, discipline and hardworking and adoration to repeat the same thing a million times.

            And the Türks, the Russians in the majority, are also Türks and we all have the same spirit
          2. de_monSher
            de_monSher 19 July 2013 22: 27
            0
            In general, and in general ... Man ... Neighbor - stop the blizzard. Petty nationalism - didn’t bring anyone to good, but on the contrary = for that it is petty =, led to shredding of thoughts and spirit ...

            As for horse meat, I eat it - if necessary. I won't turn up my nose from food when I'm hungry - this is the lot of small children, "I don't want this! I won't! I want chocolate, in marmalade!" But making a fetish out of food or dividing people according to their gastronomic preferences is a kindergarten, that still. And too strong meat - horse meat, the pressure instantly goes off scale from him. To consume too much of it, do not respect your body - it will wear out, you will not have time to blink an eye.

            Marek, really, All your theories, "historical" absolutely ... have nothing to do with real history. To pseudo history - yes. To the local history - yes. But not history. Swearing with you is lazy and funny. Each of your "historical" arguments has at least a dozen refutations.

            Look something like this ... *)
            1. Marek Rozny
              Marek Rozny 21 July 2013 04: 13
              0
              Quote: de_monSher
              Yes, and too strong meat - horse meat, the pressure instantly rolls over him. Too much to consume it, your body is not respected - it will wear out, you will not have time to blink an eye.

              nifiga you do not know about horse meat. Yes, and how do you know Sartu))) neither you nor your ancestors did not eat horse meat. that's all. there are no Altai peoples who don’t eat horse meat. oturechichnye on language - another thing. In short, everything will be fine with the body, nothing will wear out there. These are Sartovsky tales.

              Quote: de_monSher
              All your theories, "historical" absolutely ... have nothing to do with real history. To pseudo history - yes. To the local history - yes. But not history.
              What? Didn't like quotes from Russian pre-revolutionary orientalists about Sarts and Bachs? ))))
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                1. Marek Rozny
                  Marek Rozny 21 July 2013 17: 12
                  +1
                  gyyyy, sart was offended) kick me out to the steppe for "bad behavior"))))
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                      3. Marek Rozny
                        Marek Rozny 21 July 2013 20: 14
                        0
                        what questions do you have? you mess up even on your own history))) you should have questions to yourself - "why do you know the history of your country so sucks?" )))

                        I brought you a historical document of the 16th century (and written by a chronicler from the Uzbek side), what else do you want? you still accuse that it was the Uzbek chroniclers of that time who falsified the defeat of their khan, so that in the 21st century the Kazakhs would be pleased))))) your "ancestor" rushed to Afghanistan because in the western direction he was given a mouthful, that's what he needs was to compensate for defeat on one front by victory on the other. Anyway, after his defeat on the Kazakh front, he begins to do a bunch of stupid things, and this was emphasized by the chroniclers. If you have never read the Uzbek chronicles, then here is the end of the already quoted text "Zubdat al-Asar":

                        “In a word, Shahbakht Khan suffered a major defeat, and when [his] dominion reached its climax and the time [of transition] to decline came, this glorious khan committed some unseemly actions. One of them [was] that [ also] before he took Turkestan from Kuchum Khan and handed it over to Sayyid-Ashik, and then, when he was in distress and returned from a campaign against the Kazakhs, he took Bukhara from Ubaydallah-Sultan and gave [it] to Sayyid- Ashika, and he took the possession of Hisar from Hamza Sultan and Mahdi Sultan and made Ubaydallah Sultan the khakim there. For this reason, the sultans were offended.

                        When he went to Khorasan, he sent some Beks [there], and he himself went to El Khazar. Since the places in which they [the Hazaras] lived were impregnable, he could not win over them and returned to Herat.

                        At this time, news came that Shah Ismail had come up with an army from Iraq and had come close to the borders of Khorasan. Shahbakht-khan sent tavachis [messengers] to the sultans and ordered that they all go to Merv together with the army of Maverannahr and Turkestan. And when he himself came to Merv and joined him, having come from Samarkand, Timur-Sultan, and the other sultans had not yet had time to join, Shah Ismail went to the vicinity of Merv ...

                        What happened next you should know. From his skull, Shah Ismail the First made a drinking cup.

                        well, and your tantrum is visible by your numerous insults personally to me))) well, I understand, you also need to compensate for the wounded sense of own bankruptcy in the dispute laughing
                2. The comment was deleted.
                  1. Marek Rozny
                    Marek Rozny 21 July 2013 19: 57
                    0
                    Sart, I generally ceased to understand you from the moment you started hysteria))) I'm already writing your answers in such a way as to drive you into shame. Modern Uzbeks begin in 1924, everything that was in the history of the Uzbeks before this does not apply to the Tajik "Uzbeks". Although what the bazaar is about, if you even recorded Temirlan in Uzbeks, although this barlas, on the contrary, cut those who then called themselves Uzbeks. The paths of "Uzbek" history are inscrutable))) And if Timur would have known that in the 20th century he, a Horde from the Barlas clan, would be "mixed" with Uzbek Sheibanids, Sarts and Tajiks, he would have fallen into the sediment of amazement lol And now he is the national hero of the "Uzbek" people))))))))))) If someone called him "Uzbek" to his face, he would rip the skin off that person. But does the Sarts really care? What difference does it make to them - Timurids, Shibanids ...
                    1. de_monSher
                      de_monSher 21 July 2013 20: 20
                      0
                      Kozo, do you really have problems with the frontal lobes of the brain? *)) When the next horse was hammered, did it hoof you, did your "thinking functions" correct? *))) I'm talking about Ivan, you're talking about Boob ...

                      You, in response to my first comment about Sheibani Khan, and about his campaign against these, yours, steppe animals ... their mother's leg, with their names, only Burkduk and Kasym can be remembered ... *)) And so , I normally ask you - "Why did Sheibani Khan, if he was" defeated "by the Kazakhs, not die there, but literally a couple of months later ended up in the north of Afghanistan and died there?" What do you answer me? "There weren't so many of you Sarts ... but there were so many ... in the steppe of Sheibani Khan was beaten ... and finally, you only read Uzbek books ... you are hysterical ... throwing poop ..." blah blah -blah ... blah-blah-blah, Kazakh woman in the steppe, gave birth to a marmot, and then went to chop wood into the taiga ... blah-blah-blah ... these are your words, LITERALLY ... *)

                      Come on so ... Nah, we are throwing back the official historians, and other bitters. They have such a job - presidents ass licking. They get calories from this and money. What do you have in Kazakhstan, what do we have in Uzbekistan. Did you close this question?

                      So answer ME a question ... I’ll simplify it if you don’t have enough brains to understand ... WHY Sheybani Khan died not in Kazakhstan, but in Afghanistan? *))
                    2. Marek Rozny
                      Marek Rozny 21 July 2013 20: 58
                      0
                      Hey, hysterical, do you have to answer questions a hundred times? Can’t you think of a logical answer yourself? Have you even bothered to read the given chronicle?
                      "... And when the sultans, who did not set up the guard, got scared, seeing in the distance those few people, and not paying attention to each other, all in a panic fled, not a single person had the courage to confront the enemy. Of course, the enemy was ambushed and many people fell on the battlefield. Kanbar Mirza, who was the senior Bek of the Shakhbakht Khan and who he gave to the Balkh soyurghal with the areas belonging to him, was killed there, and the arms of the entire army fell into the hands of the Kazakhs.
                      In a miserable position, the sultans united with Shahbakht Khan, and then the enemy came after them and killed many of the prominent [associates of Muhammad Shaybani Khan] ... "

                      Your imaginary "ancestor" escaped from the battlefield, so his heels sparkled that the Kazakhs could not catch up. Or did you expect that official Shaybanid chronicler will write everything in his own words, they say, our bright Khan draped? But even between the lines it is clearly visible that if the whole army fled from the Kazakhs, the stump is clear, and the khan himself ran a bullet from the Steppe.

                      And, in my opinion, even a non-Uzbek here on the forum should have already remembered that Sheibani died during the battle with the Shah of Persia, and not in the war with Afghan residents. What connoisseur of Uzbek history are you if you don’t know that your "ancestor" was killed on the territory of present-day Turkmenistan (near the city of Merv)? Sheibani even got in the teeth from the Hazaras and returned from the inglorious campaign to Herat, and from there he moved to Merv, where his army was defeated, and he himself was killed.
                      In short, you have a "deuce" throughout the history of Uzbeks. So ask yourself a question about "brains".

                      Quote: de_monSher
                      Kazakh woman in the steppe, the groundhog gave birth,

                      Surkov your wife will give birth, not a Kazakh. Zadolbal with his bestiality. The second time already here on this topic you write. Now you write about fantasies with "covering mares", now about marmots. You are ... go to women. Kazakhs have never had such traditions as the Sarts. Our mentality is really different. We took any woman we wanted (albeit not always out of love, but sometimes just by force). Therefore, we did not have spermotoxicosis and, accordingly, homosexuals, pedophiles and zoophiles. But Russian ethnographers, some of whom I have already cited here, note that bestiality and pedophilia were widespread among the Sarts due to the fact that they lacked women. A hundred years have passed, and some Sarts, apparently, still have their habits. There was another "Uzbek" named "Dust", who also wrote endlessly on the topic of bestiality. He is talking about it in the forums of the site "CentrAsia" almost every day. This, incidentally, is another feature that distinguishes the Turks from the Sarts / Tajiks. And this is not an insult, this is a real cultural feature that causes bewilderment and contempt on the part of the Altai towards the "Pamirians".
                    3. de_monSher
                      de_monSher 21 July 2013 21: 16
                      0
                      that Shaybani died during the battle with the Shah of Persia


                      Well, you see, a horse-eater, you can sometimes think - even a monkey, look, you can sometimes teach you to press the keyboard. Sheybani, retreated from Herat to Merv, and died there in the battle of Ismail 1. But, nevertheless, only in modern Kazakh historiography, is there a mention of the defeat of Burundi Khan and Sultan Qasim. All other authors have a mention of a FAILURE march on Kasym and Chipmunk. And the problem here is not in obscurity, but in the conjuncture. Really, if the Uzbek troops were defeated in Kazakhstan, Ismail 1st. no longer would they have to be, supposedly killed by the Kazakhs, lured from Merv ... *)

                      So, horse-eater, I can give you two tips:

                      1. Do not read the Kazakh pseudo-historians. They will give 100 points of handicap to the Ukrainian, with their Ukrai.
                      2. Do not be nervous, do not rush poop, breathe evenly ... in general, drink valerian, and eat another piece of horse meat. Once again, you will feel once again that you are a true Kazakh ... *)
                    4. Marek Rozny
                      Marek Rozny 21 July 2013 22: 26
                      +1
                      Quote: de_monSher
                      Well, you see, a horse-eater, you can sometimes think - even a monkey, look, you can sometimes teach you to press the keyboard.

                      are you talking to yourself self-critical you however.

                      Quote: de_monSher
                      Sheybani retreated from Herat to Merv, and there he died in the battle of Ismail 1.

                      I wrote to you three times already - that Sheibani was killed by a Persian shah. you got confused all the time and wrote about Afghanistan.
                      Quote: de_monSher
                      But, nevertheless, only in modern Kazakh historiography, is there a mention of the defeat of the Chipmunk Khan and Sultan Kasim. All other authors have a mention of a FAILURE march on Kasym and Chipmunk.

                      Yep, are you kidding me? I have already poked you a UZBEK chronicle several times, where it is written in black and white about the rout of the Sheybani army, perpetrated by the Kazakhs.

                      Quote: de_monSher
                      Really, if the Uzbek troops were defeated in Kazakhstan, Ismail 1st. no longer would they have to be, supposedly killed by the Kazakhs, lured from Merv ... *)
                      Why did you decide that all kings have "disposable" armies? That is, if someone was defeated once, then he will no longer be able to recruit troops ??? I just fought shit. For example, Tokhtamysh buried several of his large armies in unsuccessful battles while he conquered the eastern part of the Golden Horde. But nevertheless, every time in a few months with a NEW army invaded the Golden Horde. By your logic, once he lost his army, the khan cannot fight anymore. You fought the bullshit from the very beginning, and now you come up with all sorts of crap, just to make excuses.

                      Quote: de_monSher
                      1. Do not read the Kazakh pseudo-historians. They will give 100 points of handicap to the Ukrainian, with their Ukrai.

                      Have I brought you at least one Kazakh source? I have given you exclusively Uzbek, Russian, Soviet and Tajik sources. is it generally bad with vision?


                      Quote: de_monSher
                      2. Do not be nervous, do not rush poop, breathe evenly ... in general, drink valerian, and eat another piece of horse meat. Once again, you will feel once again that you are a true Kazakh ... *)

                      You began to pour insults to the first. Reread your and my messages. Unfortunately, you didn’t have ANY reason, therefore, insults both to my address and to all Kazakhs naturally began. Of course, this is easier than giving reasons.
  • simpleton
    simpleton 17 July 2013 10: 29
    +8
    Creepy! But somehow memory works selectively: the Japanese are flayers! beat them! and as companies in their Japanese place, yes "loot" with their help, so here the Japanese are the right guys. What can you do, money doesn't smell! And tap, of course, everything is correct: they were bad guys, very bad ...
  • rodevaan
    rodevaan 17 July 2013 10: 38
    +9
    So it was. It’s just that the Sino-Japanese war was practically not covered, there was almost no interest in it, so the people know almost nothing about this war. And there were such atrocities that even the German savage nonhumans did not know. Asians are Asians, human life there was valued even less anywhere. Needless to say, the most terrible, brutal and perverted tortures in the history of mankind were invented and practiced in Asia, and the slower and more sophisticated the murder was, the greater the reverence of the brutal crowd caused the executioner.
    I once read various sources about the war on the Pacific Theater, where already at the very end the amers cleaned the islands of the Japs - there were also described all sorts of cases where the latter manifested simply primitive savagery - for example, samurai fanatics, if the provisions were over - they willingly chopped and ate shot down prisoners of Amer pilots having fun chopping off their heads and limbs with a captive, there were cases when prisoners were cut into small pieces, trying as hard as possible so that he was still alive. During the assault on several large islands, the Japs, in view of a hopeless situation, committed mass suicide of their own civilian population (there were a civilian population on large islands), drove them to the Amer landing, and they killed the survivors with cold steel before the taken aback Americans.

    Recently I was on a business trip to Japan, - looked at them, talked to them - and they seemed to me a very peaceful, positive, calm nation, smiling, willingly talking - girls, schoolchildren and kids in general look like toys - I want to touch and stroke. In general, communicating with them, I had very positive impressions, and you will never think that 70 years ago, representatives of this nation could create such terrible primitive atrocities.

    By the way, the title of the article does not lie. Many neighbors really hate the Japanese, especially the Chinese, and do not forget what they did on their land in their time. We had an international travel group, the Chinese were with us. When traveling to Shinkonsen (high-speed train), it was boring and I talked to a Chinese translator, a young guy of about 25. During the conversation, I asked, they say, how do the Chinese relate to the Japanese, to be honest? After all, there were different times. To which he, without embarrassment, answered - to be honest, we hate them. Like, we had a lot of wars with them, they killed a lot of people, they despise us and consider us people of the lowest grade. Therefore, we hate them. I think he was right, because the way it is as he said.
    In confirmation of his words: somehow we rode in two buses to the training ground of the automobile plant. We, the Russians, were on the bus with the Japanese, in the second there were Arabs and Americans, in the third there were Chinese and Singaporeans. Along the way, I came across a narrow and very uneven, hilly section of the road, which our head bus overcame with difficulty and with shaking, like in an UAZ. Overcoming the obstacle, we waited for the rest. The Arabs with the Americans barely passed and also began to wait, when the Chinese drove into the obstacle course - the Japs began to gnaw scornfully at them on the bus and release caustic curses and jokes at them. It was strange to watch this unanimous restraint.
    That's it.
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 17 July 2013 11: 47
      +1
      Quote: rodevaan
      Recently I was on a business trip to Japan, - looked at them, talked to them - and they seemed to me a very peaceful, positive, calm nation, smiling, willingly talking - girls, schoolchildren and kids in general look like toys - I want to touch and stroke. In general, communicating with them, I had very positive impressions, and you will never think that 70 years ago, representatives of this nation could create such terrible primitive atrocities.

      Well, what am I talking about - during the war they (like the Turks, Hungarians, Mongols) switch something in their head and they will herach the enemy, not deciphering - the armed enemy, civilians, guilty, innocent. The enemy and the point. 5 minutes after the end of the war, the Japanese, Hungarian, Kazakh and even Finn will calmly call the former enemy to drink tea and discuss all sorts of neighborly matters, without even thinking that 5 minutes ago was a different person.
      "Altaian" ("Turanian") in war and in peacetime are two completely different psychological states. Switch instantly.
      Quote: rodevaan
      the Chinese drove in - the Japs began to scorn gossip over them in the bus and let out caustic curses and jokes at them. It was strange to watch this unanimous restraint.

      In general, none of the Asians like the Chinese. Especially the Turks, Mongols, Japanese. The range of feelings is distrust, contempt, hatred. We have been living side by side for not the first millennium. We have normal relations with everyone, but with the Chinese - a poorly concealed desire to start a war again. There is no fear of losing the war, but there is a fear that the Chinese will swallow our culture. Nobody wants to become Chinese. The Chinese have even included the Kyrgyz epos "Manas" and the Kazakh dombra in the "cultural heritage of China", which infuriates their neighbors. They even presented the Turkic-Mongolian 12-year animal cycle (the so-called "Eastern calendar") to the whole world as a Chinese invention.
      A couple of years ago, the Chinese sent a request to UNESCO to recognize the horse sausage "kazy" - a Chinese national dish. Although this is a purely Turkic-Mongolian dish! And the Chinese did not make kazy in ancient times, nor now. It is a predatory nation that dissolves everyone without a trace. Therefore, it is the largest nation in the world, and not because it reproduces like rabbits.
      1. T80UM1
        T80UM1 17 July 2013 12: 00
        +5
        The Chinese are the locusts of Asia, and no one in Asia who loves them ... They captured everyone and genocide in their own way.
      2. rodevaan
        rodevaan 18 July 2013 02: 35
        +1
        Quote: Marek Rozny

        In general, none of the Asians like the Chinese. Especially the Turks, Mongols, Japanese. The range of feelings is distrust, contempt, hatred. We have been living side by side for not the first millennium. We have normal relations with everyone, but with the Chinese - a poorly concealed desire to start a war again. There is no fear of losing the war, but there is a fear that the Chinese will swallow our culture. Nobody wants to become Chinese. The Chinese have even included the Kyrgyz epos "Manas" and the Kazakh dombra in the "cultural heritage of China", which infuriates their neighbors. They even presented the Turkic-Mongolian 12-year animal cycle (the so-called "Eastern calendar") to the whole world as a Chinese invention.
        A couple of years ago, the Chinese sent a request to UNESCO to recognize the horse sausage "kazy" - a Chinese national dish. Although this is a purely Turkic-Mongolian dish! And the Chinese did not make kazy in ancient times, nor now. It is a predatory nation that dissolves everyone without a trace. Therefore, it is the largest nation in the world, and not because it reproduces like rabbits.


        “Well, yes, yes,” here in Asia they have their own graters, their cauldron of passions, and their centuries-old confrontation. The same Chinese and Japanese - they have had continuous brutal wars for 1000 years, and few people know that, for example, the first conflict of these states was recorded back in 663, and the Japanese periodic invasions of China were no less terrible than the Nanking massacre. Just few people know about this from a wide audience, because it was not particularly interesting to anyone. And there are actually confrontations about the same as ours and the Fritz, and even with even greater intensity! And who would you think is the biggest chauvinist here in SE Asia? Who do you think hates your neighbors the most? Never guess - South Koreans! Most of them hate everyone - both the Japs and the Chinese, and of course their northern tribesmen, consider themselves the most highly developed among them all. Although without the Americans, they would be far in the tail.

        And about the Chinese - in vain you are. I understand the fear of many Russians in the Chinese quantitative gap. But to me they are much prettier than the same fascist shortcomings and indeed the geyropastants in general. Yes, a different race, a different culture, other customs, but they relate to us much better than the Western, which was eaten will remain the enemy.
        1. studentmati
          studentmati 18 July 2013 02: 44
          0
          Quote: rodevaan
          but they treat us much better than the zapadoid,

          Do you really believe that? Perhaps from the time of Mao there still remains some trust in the older generation, but the instinct of preserving the nation is above any good attitude. The same Mao was friends with the USSR until the creation of his atomic bomb. And what is the good attitude here? When you really want to eat, sympathies dissolve like fog ...
          1. rodevaan
            rodevaan 19 July 2013 04: 22
            0
            Quote: studentmati
            Do you really believe that?


            - I really believe it!
            I was born and live in Vladivostok, I constantly travel to China, and I come across them in what is called "in the first person", so I am not afraid of either the "yellow threat" or the Chinese themselves.
            Unlike the unbroken west, overgrown with cave Russophobia, who hates everything Russian at the genetic level, we have never really fought with China, and China has lost much more from Russia's colonization of the Far East than Geyropastan during all the wars with us. And the name of Muravyov-Amursky in general in China causes undisguised fury - thanks to this competent Russian politician who circled the Chinese at one time, we now have Primorye, as part of Russia, and not in joint use with China.
            Nevertheless, communicating with ordinary Chinese people that we have, that in China, I see either a friendly or neutral attitude towards the Russians. You can not say about the attitude of the Chinese to the Westoids. They openly hate pi-n-dos, and the same geyropastan. They remember very well the times when the colonial regimes of small-shavens and paddlers plundered and dragged away China in the 19th century ... And even now they see (ordinary Chinese) in Russia an ally against the Western-shaped bastards.

            Therefore, I openly speak and believe that we, the Russians, need not be afraid of China, but be in alliance with them against our eternal enemy - the West. Of course, it’s not worth going to them with open arms, because they, like any state, pursue their own policies. But it is an indisputable fact that this large country, which has enormous weight in the international arena, is, along with India, one of our key allies in many international affairs, and we, as neighbors and as true partners, should further deepen and develop our mutual relations! Moreover, the West is already rolling into a rubyroid in its crisis, and the economic and financial center of gravity is slowly flowing from there to the East!
        2. de_monSher
          de_monSher 18 July 2013 04: 48
          -2
          Yes, a different race, a different culture, other customs, but they relate to us much better than the Western, which was eaten will remain the enemy.


          Never ... never ... never ... never believe, Japanese or Chinese = they, in fact, are not much different from each other, because they probably hate each other = ... this is a simple truth for any Asian. .. Friends - from afar. Shake your hand - cautiously. Yes, even smile through your teeth ... In general, if you feel its strength - be friends. And if you are weak, they will kill you, "eat", they will not blink an eye ...

          And so. Chinese women, damn it, drag from hairy men ... it's theirs some kind of fetish, really ... *))
          1. rodevaan
            rodevaan 19 July 2013 04: 24
            +2
            Well, I don’t know, I had no business with depraved Chinese women, so I find it difficult to comment on anything.
      3. Turdaun
        Turdaun 19 July 2013 14: 43
        0
        True said !!!
    2. Coward
      Coward 17 July 2013 12: 38
      0
      In China, every year on the day of the Nanking massacre, an air siren howls.
  • omsbon
    omsbon 17 July 2013 10: 42
    +6
    The samurai spirit for testing in 1945 turned out to be a bunch since chopping off women and children’s heads is one thing, and fighting with skilled and battle-hardened warriors is completely different, hence the massive surrender.
    1. samuraisinto
      samuraisinto 17 July 2013 10: 45
      -19%
      with seasoned warriors !? Fritz moved to Siberia all the tusks in 1945 and that settled ... (((((and the real owner of Russia, Muller is the head of Gazprom! and I have never seen a single Japanese in real life in Siberia, one Japanese surname neither French there was a war with France by mu sher amy SHERAMYGI - my dear friend, but the Fritz created in Russia for the French such a situation that there are no French names for these are German colonies ((((
      and Stalin sent autobahns in Germany to build there were only engineers and there was nobody to wield a shovel
      1. 3 inches.
        3 inches. 17 July 2013 20: 54
        +6
        orderlies on the site! faster, and then a completely human screen splashes with saliva !!!
    2. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 17 July 2013 11: 32
      +3
      Quote: omsbon
      mass surrender.

      by order. there wouldn’t be an order, so far they would have partisaned in the jungle.
      1. omsbon
        omsbon 17 July 2013 22: 50
        +1
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        by order. there wouldn’t be an order, so far they would have partisaned in the jungle.

        In the jungle, the Japs could be partisan, but only the taiga is NOT the jungle! laughing
        In the newsreels of those years, heaps of samurai swords and boxes of explosives for blowing up tanks voluntarily laid by samurai often flicker. Although the bushido code does not approve of surrender.
    3. Max_Bauder
      Max_Bauder 17 July 2013 13: 36
      +4
      Only cowards kill women and children
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 17 July 2013 14: 35
        +1
        Quote: Max_Bauder
        Only cowards kill women and children

        Usually, the Asian peoples of conquered women and children were taken to their people and brought them up in their cultural and linguistic traditions. But in the case of wars with China, most opponents stupidly genocide them. Because there are a lot of them, and all Chinese women cannot be married.
  • Standard Oil
    Standard Oil 17 July 2013 10: 44
    +2
    Why do they hate the Japanese? It's simple: Detachment 731 + treating others as "inferior races" = hatred of all your neighbors in the present and acquaintance with the Red Army in the future.
    1. vkrav
      vkrav 17 July 2013 10: 50
      +3
      Why don't you mention that Shiro Ishiya, the "father" of amerskoy biological weapons, worked for a long time and fruitfully for the "good of democracy"?
      1. Standard Oil
        Standard Oil 17 July 2013 10: 53
        +4
        But is he not from the same detachment 731? And the Americans love war criminals.
        1. vkrav
          vkrav 17 July 2013 10: 57
          +2
          Ishii is basically this detachment. A good book is Morimura Seiichi. Devil's Kitchen:
          http://www.x-libri.ru/elib/morim000/
          Just about that.
      2. samuraisinto
        samuraisinto 17 July 2013 10: 56
        -18%
        you eat from the trough of mass misinformation earlier in Russia the enemies of the people of the Chasotila Shas that there are no enemies of the Chasas!? what wasn’t chiked before!? the second one who controls the planet does so we don’t know what the neighboring tribes are or are obliged to hate it is easier to control and manage peoples
        1. Muadipus
          Muadipus 17 July 2013 11: 58
          +5
          Oh, and it's hard to read you. :(
          1. T80UM1
            T80UM1 17 July 2013 12: 34
            +4
            In Japan, apparently studied)))
  • vkrav
    vkrav 17 July 2013 10: 47
    +9
    about "samurai spirit"
    1. kagorta
      kagorta 17 July 2013 11: 37
      +3
      It’s a pity not to do one thing, not to find this bitch and to do the same with his own family. What would he squeal interestingly. And then the Americans acted as wise, intelligent, visionary. It was agreed that the Chinese would also have zones of occupation (for example, they would have come off, for example, the Yapes themselves, who surrendered to us in China, asked them to be taken to Siberia, since they began to kill them in China quietly) and to us ( us Hokkaido.
      1. saruman
        saruman 17 July 2013 13: 12
        +4
        Quote: kagorta
        It’s a pity not to do one thing, not to find this bitch and to do the same with his own family. What would he squeal interestingly


        The Japanese at home were accustomed to this. In Japan, samurai terror and apartheid have been established over the centuries in relation to other classes. A samurai could kill and torture anyone, with or without reason, including Buddhist priests. After the Meiji revolution, the power of the samurai (shogunate) was eliminated, but the new imperial power soon began to introduce "samurai" traditions into the army (there were no others, remember the movie "The Last Samurai" with Tom Cruise). The newly converted "samurai" quickly learned to apply these "traditions" to other peoples. By the way, this was state policy.
  • sergey158-29
    sergey158-29 17 July 2013 11: 23
    +7
    I would call it SAMURAI FASCISM about which many do not know!
    1. Muadipus
      Muadipus 17 July 2013 11: 52
      +1
      Quote: sergey158-29
      SAMURAI FASCISM
      in fact, the word "fascism" is not appropriate here, especially since the word came from the Italian language and means "union" ... if we compare it with Hitler's fascism ... then IMHO the Germans were more humane ... they simply carried out genocide, i.e. e extermination. Shootings, burning, gas chambers ... etc. And in this article and in the photographs posted in the comments ... we observe bullying with obvious pride and pleasure. A soldier in all wars has to kill, but you must admit that there is a difference in how they kill.
      1. Max_Bauder
        Max_Bauder 17 July 2013 13: 43
        +7
        The difference between a warrior and a thug:

        A warrior kills to protect himself and others from killing, and is forced to do so, although this is disgusting, forgiving the forgiveness of God.

        Cutthroat - kills for pleasure, and defenseless and weak, against a strong opponent he is a coward, hides, he has no honor, he can pretend to repent in order to survive.
  • revnagan
    revnagan 17 July 2013 11: 38
    +7
    Listen, brothers, is it just that I have some kind of déjà vu? After all, such publications have already been on this site, only more detailed, but the facts, names and photos are the same.
    As for the Altai peoples who do not consider such atrocities to be a war crime, it’s not like the Yapis won the war, and they don’t set the rules. Such sadism is not clear to normal people, so you need to raise the question of punishing war criminals and punish them cruelly.
    1. Max_Bauder
      Max_Bauder 17 July 2013 13: 45
      +5
      I agree! A normal person who still has a particle of God in his soul will never do such a thing, much less remain indifferent. Altai is not Altai, a warrior will never kill defenseless innocent people, you can punish (but it is still considered a sin) in the same way only those who did such crimes.
      1. Selevc
        Selevc 17 July 2013 20: 05
        +3
        Listen here on the site of many some idiotic look at the war !!! And when the carpet bombing is carried out - under the bombs none of the innocent dies? And where is the difference between a civilian and a partisan? He buried his machine gun in the garden and everything was peaceful, he dug up partisans !!! And when next to you your friend is torn to pieces or from home comes news of the death of your relatives - will you still remain a humble warrior?

        War is not a beautiful theater, but dirt, grief, heaps of corpses and a sea of ​​tears ... And only Fate or God (as anyone else) decides whether you will live or die !!!
        1. Max_Bauder
          Max_Bauder 18 July 2013 16: 26
          +2
          Do not lie please! War is not war, morality is everywhere, but can a pilot tell his conscience that he was ordered, why can't he refuse the bombing of the carpet ?? Is he a robot ?? what honor does he protect the country by killing civilians ?? if you bomb airfields, military, equipment, this is understandable, but they don’t kill unarmed residents! Did Napoleon kill the inhabitants of Moscow, Minsk and other cities? or did children and women take part under Borodin?

          Ours in Afghanistan, if only Americans could just drop bombs, wouldn’t introduce infantry at all, and even more so there wouldn’t be 13000 dead military deputies, ours were looking for bandits in villages, by the way, one wrote that ours also killed old people and children in villages, this is an isolated case , as it was in Samashki 1995 in Chechnya, and this is on the conscience of the commanders and soldiers participating there.

          Everyone is responsible before his actions. He obeys orders to take sin upon his soul and lay hands on himself a few years later from conscience or go against everyone, but to be killed, everyone’s choice. There is one rap song where in the chorus it sounds: How will you continue to live! Here it is!

          Have you seen the movie "The Savior" with Denis Quaid? his hero is a mercenary peacemaker in Bosnia in 1993, he was for the Croats, but when a pregnant Serb woman was spoken in front of him, he would intercede, the girl would die, but give birth to a baby, and the hero of Quaida would save him at the risk of his life.

          So for the sake of the baby, I will even have to shoot at my own, because I will fight for the sake of faith and not by order, life is short and answer to God that I will not be ordered, it is better to say I died by doing the right thing. Let me be shot as a traitor, but I'm not an infanticide.

          Here someone organizes a team to kill thugs, bandits, I will go voluntarily, give only weapons and food.

          And by the way, why do you think that war has no morality, did our grandfathers kill babies when they went to Berlin? I do not believe! they killed the Nazis so that they stopped what they were doing, is it really not clear to everyone.
  • arni
    arni 17 July 2013 11: 54
    +4
    This is their mentality.

    In Japan, almost every family has these photographs, and they hang in the most conspicuous place, and they will proudly tell you about their ancestor "hero". This is their mentality. By the way, when they found themselves in our camps, the Japanese were extremely surprised by the humane attitude. They sincerely believed that they should be subjected to torture and execution.
  • Yun Klob
    Yun Klob 17 July 2013 11: 54
    +5
    complete! They didn’t crush them in 45
  • morpogr
    morpogr 17 July 2013 12: 13
    +2
    Here it is a code of samurai, animals and nonhumans.
  • asbaev
    asbaev 17 July 2013 12: 22
    +3
    It's just that an entire nation has an inferiority complex. They need a good master. Let's help aposhki. :)
  • Yeraz
    Yeraz 17 July 2013 12: 23
    +3
    Hmm. Well, I think they hate the Chinese even more. With fellow Mongols, when it came to the Chinese, their faces changed immediately, they feel disgusted. As they told the Chinese they hate it, they would cut it out under the root. They called them rats. They live like rats , the numbers are like rats and look like rats. But the Japanese have a no. attitude. I personally like the Japanese. I love Japanese the most, but I can not stand the Chinese language, it’s so disgusting. Well, the color and taste.
    1. Master Taiga
      Master Taiga 17 July 2013 13: 08
      +4
      I support. In Asia, the Japanese are now much better treated than the Chinese. Today, Japan is a highly developed, peace-loving country, and China is an aggressor who killed 50 people in Tibet in the 200s. But our notebook cheers do not like to remember about this. Give them the ancient scarecrow of the Japanese Empire, which perished as much as 000 years ago, and war criminals are almost completely hanged after the Tokyo process. And what about the carved, Tibetans, Uighurs, Mongols and Russians: in Damansky and during the Cultural Revolution. Yes, looking at what the Chinese were doing with ours, you regret that the Japanese killed them a little.
  • tverskoi77
    tverskoi77 17 July 2013 12: 42
    +1
    In the history textbook this article!
  • PDM80
    PDM80 17 July 2013 12: 42
    +3
    The Japanese are a strange nation, they are like the British and Americans are wild sitting on their islands (in the case of America mainland). Che wonder that they have killed people in thousands, they do not care about their lives. What can you expect from a nation in which a cult of suicide, pedophilia, etc. You watch their films there more bloodly, dear mother. In a word freaking. It is alarming that they are again trying to raise their heads! No wonder the last exercises were held!
    1. Max_Bauder
      Max_Bauder 17 July 2013 13: 48
      +3
      Do you want peace ?! get ready for war! said the ancient sages.

      With such "peaceful" neighbors it is necessary to keep an ear to it.
  • antonio
    antonio 17 July 2013 13: 22
    +4
    The Japanese by their atrocities generated self-hatred, the Americans during the war years had such a slogan "Kill more Japs" to kill more Japanese, the author forgot about the mockery of the brave samurai prisoners. The Japs did not really learn how to fight (except for the aircraft carrier fleet and the night attacks of the imperial fleet). In the war on land, they showed themselves weak and mediocre, received from everyone ... In addition to the atrocities of the land army, there is nothing in fact.
  • RPD
    RPD 17 July 2013 13: 25
    +1
    all Asians have a strange attitude towards death, that of a stranger, that of their own. to condemn their morality is to condemn the morality of Aboriginal Alpha Centauri
  • lelikas
    lelikas 17 July 2013 13: 30
    +2
    Quote: Marek Rozny
    Then he checked on the internet - the Korean population has actually doubled in 30 years of Japanese occupation.


    Well, fuck all forty times a day - the birth rate is increasing ...
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 17 July 2013 14: 39
      0
      Quote: lelikas
      Well, fuck all forty times a day - the birth rate is increasing ...

      stupid answer. during the Japanese occupation, Koreans not only doubled in 30 years, but life expectancy doubled.
  • rugor
    rugor 17 July 2013 13: 53
    0
    Once I read one poll conducted in the Russian Federation, and so, we consider the Chinese as the most bloodthirsty, and the Japs as the most peace-loving. Paradox!
  • asbaev
    asbaev 17 July 2013 13: 58
    +1
    A terrible film, not people, but some kind of insects, locusts, even the name of animals does not turn the tongue. Not racist, but after the film the Japanese are very disgusted.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • vkrav
    vkrav 17 July 2013 14: 21
    +1
    Quote: RPD
    all Asians have a strange attitude towards death, that of a stranger, that of their own.

    This is traditional for crowded places with high natural mortality. But, in my opinion, only in Japan did parents kill children when they could not feed them.
    1. Max_Bauder
      Max_Bauder 18 July 2013 16: 16
      0
      You're right! the smaller the people, the more valuable life, and the more people will kill each other in batches.
  • Jrvin
    Jrvin 17 July 2013 14: 54
    -1
    According to the stories of the veteran’s grandfather, the Japanese were terribly afraid of ours ... ours are all the same the same thugs in the 45m gave a light to light.
  • Goldmitro
    Goldmitro 17 July 2013 15: 04
    +3
    <<< During World War II, it was common for Japanese soldiers and officers to hack civilians with swords, stab them with bayonets, rape and kill women, kill children, the elderly. After the war, the crimes of the Japanese military were condemned by the international community, but since the 1970s years Tokyo denies them, >>>
    And in this denial, Tokyo is not alone! And their other accomplices in the world massacre that they committed: Germany and its allies, who destroyed millions and millions of civilians of different nationalities, old people, women, children, first of all, Russians, against whom the main blow was directed, and who planned, in case of victory , in general, to destroy entire nations, also DO NOT LIKE to remember their "exploits" and find, if I may say so, "understanding" in the "civilized" Western countries, which, using the power of their media, are trying to turn history upside down and already the USSR and to present Russians not as liberators, but as the instigators of the massacre, vindictive bloodthirsty barbarians who shed rivers of blood for innocent citizens of civilized Europe! This is understandable! A raven will not peck out a raven's eyes. For the West, all these countries are aggressors - their own and will remain their own, and Russia for them was and will remain a stranger, hostile, because it does not allow them to rule the world, Therefore, it will ALWAYS be she who will be bullied, hang "all dogs" on her, accuse all mortals sins, while others will get away with it!
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 17 July 2013 15: 21
      -7
      Oh, yes, we ourselves have blood on our hands. I understand that now there will be seething and a lot of disadvantages, but we have lost 1 million Afghans in 10 years. And we sleep soundly. Because of poverty, the Japanese raised their children with bayonets, and we simply wiped Afghan villages off the face of the earth with Grads, so that soldiers would not risk it again. Which way looks more decent? In fact - one fig difference. In general, the Western world is fighting "non-contact" today, spreading "democracy". Only civilian corpses from this are not much less.
      1. Regis
        Regis 17 July 2013 23: 01
        +4
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        The Japanese because of poverty on the bayonets of children raised

        Quote: Marek Rozny
        Afghan villages were simply wiped off the face of the earth by "Grads"

        Extremely unsuccessful example.
        To wipe out the village from the face of the earth, in which the spirits hid behind the backs of their own children, and it is PURPOSE to kill with a bayonet a child is not the same thing. And people committing these acts are driven by different motives. Some do not want to lose their soldiers, while others simply kill for the sake of primitive brutality - murder for the sake of murder.
      2. Max_Bauder
        Max_Bauder 18 July 2013 16: 14
        0
        I do not agree! Killing is a sin, but not a sin if you kill in order to protect yourself or protect others, for life is God's gift, and to kill for pleasure when this can be avoided is definitely a sin, for which God will not pat on the head.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 17 July 2013 15: 37
    +7
    Little is known about this in Russia, but the number of victims of the Japanese occupation is estimated at about 25 million people.
    1. Yura
      Yura 17 July 2013 22: 53
      +1
      Quote: Pimply
      Little is known about this in Russia, but the number of victims of the Japanese occupation is estimated at about 25 million people.

      Yes this is so, you are right little is known about this, and most of the victims (I know about the figure of 20 million) are Chinese.
  • Monster_Fat
    Monster_Fat 17 July 2013 15: 52
    +2
    That's about Japanese cartoons - "anime". In fact, these are not quite "cartoons" - they are often multi-part stories expressed by means of animation. Some, ten heads higher than the works of "Pixar", "Disney", etc. To get acquainted, so to speak, with the morality of medieval Japanese, their way of life at that time, I advise you to watch the anime "Obsessed with Death". Warning - not a sight for the faint of heart. There is also a good fairy tale "Basilisk" - a masterpiece of animation, a kind of version of the Japanese "Romeo and Juliet" - a very powerful thing. Well, in fact, the Japanese still remain, an arrogant cruel nation. I sometimes communicate with them on business and I can say that they have contempt for all other nations, just in their blood.
  • terry
    terry 17 July 2013 17: 07
    +3
    The atrocity syndrome, apparently, sits not only in the Japanese.
    Remember Yugoslavia, during the Soviet era, they lived perfectly having a passport with the ability to visit 75 countries. And what happened to them just recently?
    Where did civilized Europeans get such a thirst for blood from?
    And they are not Altai at all ..
  • akv0571
    akv0571 17 July 2013 17: 18
    -5
    And how brutally killed the family of Nicholas 2?
    These executioners wanted to personally kill the king, respectively, for the family and persons accompanying the royal family, among them was the famous doctor Botkin, the cartridge was not enough. And the survivors were finished off with knives.
    There were also children there, and they were killed by Russian "heroes" !!!!!
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 17 July 2013 18: 28
      +4
      in general, much can be recalled of the atrocities of both white and red during the civil war. with a bayonet they pricked both women and children, and stars cut out and so on. Both Russian parties accused each other of such savagery.
    2. Selevc
      Selevc 17 July 2013 20: 01
      +5
      But how did Tsar Nikolai destroy MILLIONS of his fellow citizens - for no reason at all ??? Mediocre losing two wars and giving power in the country to some kind of visiting Jewish revolutionaries !!! The dog got it to him !!!
      1. Yura
        Yura 17 July 2013 23: 01
        +1
        Quote: Selevc
        And how Tsar Nikolai killed MILLIONS of his fellow citizens - for no reason at all

        Not in vain and not for nothing that the people gave him the nickname BLOOD, Nikolai the Bloody. His reign began with the death of people during the coronation and ended with a bloody meat grinder.
      2. Max_Bauder
        Max_Bauder 18 July 2013 16: 47
        +1
        It is unlikely that you would say so in the place of the king, when bayonets penetrated your body, you can’t say so! We don’t know whether the tsar was guilty or not, but in any case, it’s not worth brutally killing, they could shoot, or rather one shot to the head. But all the same, I would tell a soldier who killed him on the spot if he believes he was guilty, it’s clear that I would be put to the wall myself too, but I would immediately know that my life is worthless for the councils and I shouldn’t have lied for them at all. Everyone can kill with someone else’s hands.
    3. samuraisinto
      samuraisinto 18 July 2013 16: 13
      -2
      that's what you lie! in our city of Novokuznetsk there was a measure of the city Martin stole a lot a lot of everyone bought it in Spain, they are Paskuds in power all on one snout !!! Yeshe still manage to whitewash over time by political order!
  • Mikhail m
    Mikhail m 17 July 2013 17: 52
    +1
    James Jones Thin red line.
    Look on the other hand, I recommend reading.
    Only there are many letters, not everyone will prevail.
  • georg737577
    georg737577 17 July 2013 18: 19
    +2
    That's because what is interesting - almost everything that the Japanese undertake, they get it competently and efficiently ... In everything rationality, accuracy. And they killed in the same way ... That's just their "anime" for me a mystery .. complete, as for me.
  • I HAVE T
    I HAVE T 17 July 2013 18: 19
    +5
    Quote: Marek Rozny
    The Japanese because of poverty on the bayonets of children raised


    Gorgeous phrase. Straight pity for the poor Japanese woke up. Indeed, spending 1 cartridge per infant is such a waste!

    ps Sorry for the emotionality.
  • Steppenwolf
    Steppenwolf 17 July 2013 18: 21
    +6
    Hmm ... I don’t seem to understand some things: I can, with pleasure and a lot, look at the dismembered and other trash, but when I see photos like stabbed babies with bayonets, something clicks in the brain and tears come out in my eyes ... What- then the nerves are not to hell ... Apparently getting old ...
    Here they wrote in the comments about the neglect of life of both their own and the enemy among the Yap - and for some reason I saw only the satisfaction of my not very healthy, even from my point of view, inclinations of soldiers and officers ... Economists x + evy .. .protrons they saved bl + eat ... 20th century in the yard, mammoths have been killed for a long time, pterodactyls do not fly, and they save cartridges and rejoice like small children: + and look, I chopped everything off to him, but he was alive ... gee- gee + ... If it comes to genocide - show respect both to yourself and to the enemy - put a bullet in his head.

    to samuraisinto: I don’t understand: are you stupid or stupid?!? Or do you have functional illiteracy ???
    Let’s omit your view of events in History at the school level of a 15-year-old who read 100500 articles of obscure content in 1 night and now has hellish mess in his head, but it’s also IMPOSSIBLE to write! This is pi + dec! In principle, you cannot correctly state your thoughts, both in terms of content and in design, I have a persistent desire to rip you off with a soldier belt, it will suddenly help, and then they can rip off all your Russian language teachers for such work.

    ps Sorry, it's boiling ...
    1. Yura
      Yura 18 July 2013 12: 46
      +1
      Quote: SteppenWolf
      ps Sorry, it's boiling ...

      Who do you apologize to and for what? Everything you said is more than fair.
      1. Steppenwolf
        Steppenwolf 19 July 2013 10: 59
        0
        Umm ... Yes, I'm talking about my curtsy Grammar Nazi towards samuraisinto)))
  • Crang
    Crang 17 July 2013 18: 32
    -3
    And at the end there was an airplane with the beautiful name "Enola-Gay". And such a good fungus. The creatures deserve, even though I don't like Americans.
    1. Max_Bauder
      Max_Bauder 18 July 2013 16: 51
      0
      Despite all the atrocities of the Japanese, I consider them to be the same as everyone, that is, no one is without sin, but about the bomb thrown by him, I think no matter how cruel it is, it was impossible for a friend to stop them, because they could resist so much that they would participate in the war children, all the more if the front had moved to their island, and with a small sacrifice they immediately thought that it would be better to leave offspring for the future, otherwise now people would think of the Japanese as ancient Romans.