Military Review

Shot in the top ten. Russian weapons are coming into fashion

92
Shot in the top ten. Russian weapons are coming into fashion



The ORSIS T-5000 sniper rifle, which was developed and produced in Moscow, will be tested in Pakistan. This was announced at the International Exhibition DSA-2014, which completes its work in Malaysia.

According to the head of the Russian delegation, Rosoboronexport director for special assignments Nikolay Dimidyuk, the exhibition was a success. More than 30 delegations visited our exhibit. There were very substantive talks with the Secretary General of the Ministry of Defense of Malaysia, Ismail bin Haji Ahmad. The Armed Forces of this country showed interest in the Buk-M2E anti-aircraft missile systems, Russian armored vehicles, the Pantsir-C1 anti-aircraft missile and cannon systems, and Russian-made aircraft modernization.

In general, the growing interest in weapons and military equipment offered by our country for export will be explained. She has worked well in various regions of the world. In addition, Russia fulfills its obligations regardless of the political situation and has never threatened anyone with sanctions. Today it has become especially appreciated.

Nevertheless, a real breakthrough on the world market of Russian high-precision was a sensation. weapons. It is no secret, Kalashnikovs have become the most common due to their simplicity, unpretentiousness and high reliability. Without disputing this, Western competitors put forward such an argument: Russian small arms are good for an ordinary soldier, and a completely different system is needed to equip a professional warrior: expensive, complex, well designed and very high-precision. And this in Russia, in their opinion, was never able to do.

And the complete surprise for refined small arms traders of “true professionals” was the appearance on the market of sniper rifles ORSIS T-5000.

Stainless steel barrel. The diameter of the muzzle - 23 mm. The caliber of the bullet is measured according to the internationally accepted standard. These are perfectly calibrated calibers in terms of ballistics: 308 Win, which corresponds to 7,62-mm and 338 Lapua Magnum - that is, approximately 8,6 mm.

The rifle is equipped with a three-chamber muzzle brake of the original design. Bed of alloy materials. There is an ergonomic pistol grip and adjustable butt. Rifle weight from 5,6 to 5,8 kg. Removable magazine on 5-10 ammo. Made for right-handed and left-handed users. In ballistics there is the concept of angular minute MOA - the minute of angle. It indicates the accuracy of shooting in the absence of wind and is measured in a series of five shots. Sniper can be considered only the trunk, which provides MOA below one. Rifles, now produced in Moscow, show the "angular minute" below 0,5. In the world of such high-precision unit systems.

The sighting range at which an experienced shooter gets from this rifle into the "top ten" is one and a half kilometers.

When a former Special Forces soldier of the US Armed Forces was a great connoisseur of small arms, and now the famous actor Stephen Seagal took the T-5000 for the first time, he was delighted. After reviewing the creators of the rifle and its production technology, Stephen Seagal agreed on the design and mass production of a powerful sniper rifle called ORSIS by Steven Seagal. The weapon will be different ergonomic design and the ability to hit targets at a distance of 2400 meters. Work on the Russian rifle from Steven Seagal are in full swing.

In addition to Pakistan, Indonesia, Malaysia, the Philippines, and even Saudi Arabia have shown interest in the latest sniper systems offered by our country. It is possible that the tests T-5000 will be held in the climatic conditions and these states.
Author:
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http://www.rg.ru/2014/04/18/oruzhie.html
92 comments
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  1. dmitrij.blyuz
    dmitrij.blyuz April 19 2014 07: 17
    +39
    Hammer Seagal! Not in words but in deed. To see in relatives, as it were, the Russians were! good
    1. SHILO
      SHILO April 19 2014 07: 56
      +40
      The video is just in topic.
      1. radar1967
        radar1967 April 22 2014 03: 17
        +3
        Firstly, it didn’t go out of fashion ..... It’s time for our old SVDushka to make a good girlfriend. The SVD has a large spread of -8cm. For young snipers, this causes real difficulties in sighting. Lost. They are panicking. Refuse weapons.
        In addition, if the sniper is confident in his weapon, then he will not always hit the enemy in the largest part of the body, the body. It will be possible to shoot on the limbs. So to speak - the more accurate, the more humane ...
        Secondly ... It’s not a problem to make an accurate rifle ... But reliability can be badly affected due to accuracy. Details are very clearly fitted, but any grain of sand and oooh! Delay in shooting. It may turn out to be a PARKETnik for elite special forces. So it’s too early to remove SVD from armaments. I even shot incorrectly assembled SVD. / in the dark, due to the short rod, the spring was incorrectly put into the bolt / namely, such shooters and we always have been and will be 90% in the army and the police. The boys need to learn something ...
        1. Timeout
          Timeout April 22 2014 11: 49
          0
          Quote: radar1967
          The SVD has a large spread of -8cm.

          What distance was shot at?
          1. radar1967
            radar1967 April 23 2014 09: 53
            0
            At 100m of course. SVD has a norm of 8cm per 100m. Too much.
    2. atalef
      atalef April 19 2014 10: 16
      +1
      Quote: dmitrij.blyuz
      Hammer Seagal! Not in words but in deed. To see in relatives, as it were, the Russians were! good


      Well, the Russians were definitely not there. although what does it matter
      According to some reports, his father, a mathematics teacher, Samuel Stephen Seagal (1928-1991) - a Jew; his mother, Patricia Segal (1930-2003), is Irish [5], and his paternal grandfather and grandmother Nathan Siegelman (Nathan Siegelman, 1892-1973) and Dora Goldstein (Dora Goldstein, 1894-1989) came to America with children from St. Petersburg [4] [6]. According to Segal himself, his paternal grandfather came from one of the Buddhist regions of Russia, and then, in the first half of the 7th century, he moved to the United States. Seagal recalls that in his childhood he was told about his grandfather that he was a “Mongol”, however, it is not known who he really was, a Mongol, a Buryat or a Kalmyk, because those who “could know the answer to this question have already left” . In the photograph of his grandfather and his family, according to Seagal, there were people with slanting eyes, with Mongolian hats on their heads [XNUMX]
      1. mirag2
        mirag2 April 19 2014 12: 56
        +8
        "- Oh, yes! Yes, I am Brother myself!" (The actor pronounced these words in Russian).
        My grandfather is from St. Petersburg, my wife speaks fluent Russian, and among the Russians living in the USA I have many close friends.
        I am always happy when they come to my house! Especially on your birthday!
        And of course, my Russian roots are very important to me, because your culture is one of the greatest in the world! ".
        Grandfather Sigala is a Mongol of Kalmyk-Buryat origin.
        If anyone is interested in the Mongoloid Jews, pay attention to Hakamada, mother is a Jewish woman from the KGB, father is a Japanese communist, daughter is a rare beauty.
        http://www.husan.ru/Sigal_2.php

        http://starcasm.ru/kto-po-nacionalnosti-steven-seagal/
        1. Kapitan Oleg
          Kapitan Oleg April 20 2014 13: 22
          +8
          Yes, nationality is not important, the main thing is Russia! Remember Breivik's shooting of youth on the island! Nobody put up any resistance to him, only Russian-Chechens, the rest of the "civilized cultural" only rushed about and waited for death.
          1. BLACK-SHARK-64
            BLACK-SHARK-64 April 21 2014 12: 28
            +1
            well done lads ...
        2. dmitrij.blyuz
          dmitrij.blyuz April 21 2014 14: 03
          +1
          Grandfather Sigala is a Mongol of Kalmyk-Buryat origin. === Yokarny Babai! Seagal, my countryman turns out to be by birth !!! Buryat-Mongol. With an admixture of Russian blood. Now it’s clear why no one can determine his nationality! I will immediately send him an invitation to omulevka!
        3. SANAY
          SANAY April 21 2014 22: 55
          0
          I generally respected Seagal after his interview with Rossiiskaya Gazeta! Thinking person!
    3. penguin
      penguin April 20 2014 09: 13
      +3
      I read somewhere that he’s Russian for 1 quarter, either his grandfather and grandmother, or his great-grandfather and great-grandmother, left for the states from Vladivostok
    4. Nick
      Nick April 20 2014 19: 50
      +4
      Quote: dmitrij.blyuz
      Hammer Seagal! Not in words but in deed. To see in relatives, as it were, the Russians were!

      Yes, and additional advertising provided for myself ...
      1. afire
        afire April 21 2014 09: 27
        +3
        and Jews are always looking for stumbling blocks, they themselves don’t have such weapons, they are angry, and those who have them will sneakily crap, vilely searching for petty things and trying to belittle worthy qualities of praise.
        At the same time, an autopsy is fighting against Assad. And whoever offends them, the affected victims are screaming about the Holocaust.
        how vile you are.

  2. Afinogen
    Afinogen April 19 2014 07: 26
    +13
    And the complete surprise for refined small arms traders of “true professionals” was the appearance on the market of sniper rifles ORSIS T-5000.


    I remember when Serdyukov everyone wanted to buy snipers abroad.
    1. Timeout
      Timeout April 19 2014 10: 45
      +14
      Quote: Athenogen
      I remember when Serdyukov everyone wanted to buy snipers abroad.

      And they managed to buy a certain amount of Steyr SSG 04. And as always in Russia they did not provide cartridges, the entire nomenclature is not used in the troops, so it is not accepted for service. The T5000 is a good rifle, but it has its drawbacks. For example, trunks made of stainless steel, but not susceptible to corrosion, but the resource is small especially when shooting with one-piece. In military weapons, chromium-molybdenum steels are used. Further, the cost of 180000 rubles without a sight is definitely expensive at a cost of about 60000 rubles maximum. This is at a price for the same Steyr in 1700 raccoons for the dealer. Well, then it’s just PR, the manufacture of rifling by planing, which the manufacturer claims is the most innovative technology, and it was used at the Tula State Arms Plant in the early 20th century. In fact, this technology is best suited for the manufacture of stainless steel trunks, for cutting trunks of high-quality x / m steel in this way just hesitates to sharpen tooling. They really should pull up technologies for industrial production, and their output is still equal in quantity to a small private company from the same mattress or Germany.
      1. SLX
        SLX April 19 2014 11: 06
        +11
        Quote: Timeout
        but the resource is small especially when shooting with a single-point.


        And what is their trunk resource? In general, both manufacturers and buyers, the T-5000 is embarrassed to voice many numbers: barrel resource, bolt group resource, operating temperature range and tydy, and typy.

        Quote: Timeout
        Well, then it’s just PR, the manufacture of rifling by planing, which the manufacturer claims is that this is the most innovative technology used at the Tula State Arms Plant in the early 20th century.


        Well, this is still not the case - gouging is gouging, and modern tolerances are very different. Yes, and without modern emulsions there is nothing to worry about, but this is still a problem. Well, the planing technology was known at TOZ since the 18th century, when rifled muzzle-loading nipples and others like them were made.
        1. Timeout
          Timeout April 19 2014 14: 44
          +6
          Quote: SLX
          And what is their trunk resource? In general, both manufacturers and buyers, the T-5000 is embarrassed to voice many numbers: barrel resource, bolt group resource, operating temperature range and tydy, and typy.

          From experience, I can say that the resource of a barrel made of stainless steel is 2 times lower than that of a conventional one from 2500 to 3000 shots. When shooting with powerful ammunition, a stainless steel can be even smaller. The bolt group usually has a much longer resource, up to 50 thousand shots without loss of strength and performance.
          Quote: SLX
          Yes, and without modern emulsions there is nothing to worry about, but this is still a problem.

          Yes, a problem for oil and steel weapons, stainless steel is planed at once without much effort. And as evidence, almost 99,9% of arms firms are seated on mandrels and cold forged. Laser measurements showed that cleanliness and tolerances with gouging are not much better than with other methods on a stainless steel. On other steels, the quality of this method drops significantly.
          1. SLX
            SLX April 19 2014 16: 05
            +7
            Quote: Timeout
            From experience, I can say that the resource of a barrel made of stainless steel is 2 times lower than that of a conventional one from 2500 to 3000 shots.


            Well, thank you! And then figs where you will find the very "little things" in which the devil sits. But then a few more questions for you, as a local historian.

            These rifles are designed for upscale profs who need to shoot a lot and regularly. Very rude (because it’s never a sniper), but if 50 rounds per week, then in fact the rifle’s life on the barrel is burned in a year. Is it so? And what to do with such a resource, because a sniper with his rifle should be related? Training rifles and barrel replacement once a year on them?

            But, whatever one may say, the price of the kit only on the trunks is atomic, and also ballistic computers, without which the serious work of a sniper is already unthinkable, expensive equipment and so on, and so on and so forth. Our decision makers have always been shocked by such numbers. Has something changed in their psychology, even with respect to high-class specialists?

            And another question about the aluminum (probably still duralumin) bed. Its general advantages are known - weight, lack of leash due to humidity, etc. But how practical is it in cold and hot weather, as well as with accidental bumps and other troubles in harsh operating conditions?

            Quote: Timeout
            When shooting with powerful ammunition, a stainless steel can be even smaller.


            For power, as a rule, they pay with pressure and a greater load on the rifling, so it is not surprising. But then the training of specialists becomes gold.

            Quote: Timeout
            The bolt group usually has a much longer resource, up to 50 thousand shots without loss of strength and performance.


            Adjustment of the shutter mirror on the "bolt" is hardly required when firing, but when changing barrels?
            1. andron72
              andron72 April 20 2014 16: 28
              +1
              You write like a sheep request
              1. Timeout
                Timeout April 21 2014 11: 07
                +1
                Quote: andron72
                You write like a sheep

                Dear, at the moment, the viability of the T-5000 as an army rifle is being discussed here. Carefully read the posts, it talks about the price, quantity and technology that are in no way suitable for use in combat conditions. Exorbitant price, the inability to release the series on an industrial scale. So it turns out that in the form of a horned cloven-hoofed one, it’s not the hard worker behind the machine that acts, but the manager who has the cash from this production.
          2. SLX
            SLX April 19 2014 16: 14
            +6
            Quote: Timeout
            And as evidence, almost 99,9% of arms firms are seated on mandrels and cold forged.


            These are gross technologies providing performance with acceptable quality, which, alas, is not enough for modern sniper requirements.

            Quote: Timeout
            Laser measurements showed that cleanliness and tolerances with gouging are not much better than with other methods on a stainless steel. On other steels, the quality of this method drops significantly.


            Gouging of stainless steel for Russia is generally a dead-end path - too many trunks are needed for such a country. Soviet technologies of dimensional figured chrome plating and surface hardening of chrome plating had to be developed in time, since small western firms cannot afford such research. Although, however, it is not too late now, given the complete stagnation in the development and production of the "shooters" themselves. And if nanotechnology hadn’t been sawed, but they were seriously engaged in it ...
            1. Timeout
              Timeout April 20 2014 04: 06
              +5
              Quote: SLX
              Very rude (because it’s never a sniper), but if 50 rounds per week, then in fact the rifle’s life on the barrel is burned in a year

              Preparation of a sniper means shooting 400 rounds a month at least. That is, the stainless steel will not serve even 8 months, the x / m barrel for 18 months. For Russia, of course, this is very costly, the cartridges are foreign and bite very much in price due to customs regulations and the greed of many Russian suppliers. The problem of trunks in this case is also not in the last place, the same "Promtekhnologii" lomyat for extra. trunks are unreal money. So at the moment this is a problem created by our system.
              Quote: SLX
              But, whatever one may say, the price of the kit only on the trunks is atomic, and also ballistic computers, without which the serious work of a sniper is already unthinkable, expensive equipment and so on, and so on and so forth. Our decision makers have always been shocked by such numbers. Has something changed in their psychology, even with respect to high-class specialists?


              The trick is that the Soviet-Russian school focuses on the natural training of a sniper, ballistic tables are learned by heart. Auxiliary devices are not at the forefront, equipment at the moment is not anything supernatural in price, take the cost of the same new outfit kit for an ordinary soldier, but a sniper, a single soldier so everything will be okay with the equipment.
              Quote: SLX
              luminium (probably still duralumin) bed

              How many users, so many opinions! In my opinion, duralumin is preferable for sniper weapons, even if a milled bed is cheaper than a puff composite, fabrication is technologically simpler, and the well-known D16T is used for this, although very many do not want to agree with this ... Wear resistance and performance are no different from carbon fiber.
              Quote: SLX
              Adjustment of the shutter mirror on the "bolt" is hardly required when firing, but when changing barrels?

              No adjustments required.
              Quote: SLX
              These are gross technologies providing performance with acceptable quality, which, alas, is not enough for modern sniper requirements.

              The accuracy for example with cold forging on the mandrel at the moment is 0,02 - 0,03 mm, and the purity is 10 class. Burning is 1 grade lower. By the way, the quality of the trunks made by forging in Kovrov for snipers is not micron not inferior to the Orsis ones! It all depends on the quality of the mandrel.
              1. SLX
                SLX April 20 2014 08: 46
                +3
                Thank you so much for the interesting details, and even with great knowledge!

                Quote: Timeout
                By the way, the quality of the trunks made by forging in Kovrov for snipers is not micron not inferior to the Orsiss ones! It all depends on the quality of the mandrel.


                It is good to hear that, finally, there is the most important technology brought to mind that the defense industry can be proud of.
                1. Timeout
                  Timeout April 20 2014 11: 57
                  +1
                  Quote: SLX
                  It is good to hear that, finally, there is the most important technology brought to mind that the defense industry can be proud of.

                  You're welcome! Russian gunsmiths generally like to surprise! In fact, we are still not very deep ... So we'll see!
                  1. Basarev
                    Basarev April 20 2014 17: 11
                    0
                    I also heard that there is a special technology for the production of aircraft engines: in the face of a single crystal, the entire engine is entirely grown from the melt of some cunning alloy. So: is it possible to grow a decent trunk in the same way?
      2. Garysit
        Garysit April 20 2014 12: 21
        +2
        They can't just change technology because they purchased outdated American barrel equipment and technology from Remington. Blanks for trunks purchased there.
      3. Garysit
        Garysit April 20 2014 12: 21
        0
        They can't just change technology because they purchased outdated American barrel equipment and technology from Remington. Blanks for trunks purchased there.
      4. andron72
        andron72 April 20 2014 16: 23
        0
        you carry crap fool
      5. Samaritan
        Samaritan April 20 2014 19: 31
        +2
        How much more to industrial!
        Good rifle on order !!!
    2. BLACK-SHARK-64
      BLACK-SHARK-64 April 21 2014 12: 29
      0
      he was a bastard ...
  3. cerbuk6155
    cerbuk6155 April 19 2014 08: 01
    +3
    And our sniper weapon enters the WORLD market. drinks
  4. Nickanor
    Nickanor April 19 2014 08: 16
    +5
    Seagal respect! Literate guy.
  5. Recon
    Recon April 19 2014 08: 25
    +2
    Less than a year left to wait. Adult boys have adult toys :)
  6. dmitrij.blyuz
    dmitrij.blyuz April 19 2014 08: 28
    +4
    ORSIS by Steven Seagal. The weapon will be characterized by ergonomic design and the ability to hit targets at a distance of 2400 meters. Work on the Russian rifle from Stephen Seagal is in full swing. ============= Serious application from a serious person!
  7. buzer
    buzer April 19 2014 08: 50
    +5
    I have a request to administer the site and patrons of the site ... Please give full information on the biography of Seagal !!! just not from Wikipedia !!! And then in different sources on Sigal different information. He’s a sheriff, oh, he’s a special forces soldier, then he’s a prince ... Not a biography, but a fantastic script e ... you !!!
    1. PSih2097
      PSih2097 April 19 2014 09: 43
      +1
      Quote: buzer
      Oh, he’s a commando, then he’s a prince ...

      and in the CIA there are no specialists?
  8. Alexey Prikazchikov
    Alexey Prikazchikov April 19 2014 08: 51
    +7
    Orsis already in Iraq the local special forces in full use for about a year, woke up with such flocks.
  9. tchoni
    tchoni April 19 2014 09: 16
    +1
    Cool rifle of normal caliber. Is it interesting that our entire purchases will be?
  10. Andrey SPB
    Andrey SPB April 19 2014 09: 42
    0
    It's nice to see that our defense industry is pushing the range of weapons on the world market !!!
    And together with it, it occupies a strong position in the sale of precision weapons !!
    1. SLX
      SLX April 19 2014 10: 56
      +17
      Quote: Andrey SPB
      It's nice to see that our defense industry is pushing the range of weapons on the world market !!!


      And how is our defense industry sideways here? LLC "Promtechnology" is a private company with a rather murky history. One of the co-owners of this company, Mr. Sorokin, is some kind of big president in another big sports association. True, he had no money to create such a candle factory. Therefore, I found a couple of people with money that had nothing to do with the defense industry, persuaded them to invest, obtained the necessary licenses and permits, and pushed everything gained by inhuman labor to the state order level. And then another $ 100 miles for the construction of an already large candle factory. Young man?

      But only at the same time Lobaev with his rifles, similar technologies and similar machines for some reason escaped to the UAE. Why would it be if we have such support for small businesses in the defense industry? Probably, his conflict with the Izhevsk plant and the vulnerable soul did not survive all these hassles, and the sovereign's sniping policy is no side here.

      And what did the chronically dying Izhevsk plant do at the same time? Has become a Kalashnikov concern? It's good! Where are the products? Even the A-12, issued as the quintessence of modern weapons achievements, can not be brought to mind which year. And neither Lobaev, nor Promtekhnologiya even want to be friends with them ...

      Therefore, do not cheer-patriotic songs about the achievements of our defense. T-5000 is her shame. And under Comrade Stalin, for this shame, many would answer not with armchairs and pockets, but with their own heads.

      Quote: Andrey SPB
      And together with it, it occupies a strong position in the sale of precision weapons !!


      Oh yeah! Yes! The seven or eight trunks per working day that they can now produce - this will certainly turn the world market around. The main thing is that the master toolmaker, sharpening the drill, does not get sick, otherwise all the production on figs will rise without him and no CNC machines will help.

      There remains a "trifle" - to equip the Russian army and Russian special services in the required quantity with modern sniper weapons, made not to Western standards, but to Russian ones. But you can see this will have to wait a long time.
      1. Timeout
        Timeout April 19 2014 15: 17
        +4
        Quote: SLX
        But only at the same time Lobaev with his rifles, similar technologies and similar machines for some reason escaped to the UAE.

        Lobaev's production also did not come out of the category of a very small series, and the quality of the last batches was lower than the baseboard, 50% of the defect. But in general, his rifles in themselves had nothing unusual and original except for the caliber. So he was seduced by an Arab grant of 50 lemons forever green. Well, the rest is completely agree with you.
        1. Basarev
          Basarev April 20 2014 17: 17
          +1
          Eh. Meanwhile, the SVD of the early releases had only a small amount of accuracy for more than a minute - and this, in the complete absence of sniper ammunition - used the usual Mosinsky or PKMovsky cartridge. I think that if a genuine sniper cartridge of 7,62x54 mm caliber appeared, then it would be super SVD would have a grouping no worse than this very T-5000.
          1. Timeout
            Timeout April 21 2014 11: 10
            0
            Quote: Basarev
            SVD of early releases was only very small for more than a minute

            You are mistaken, according to all documents, modern SVDs have an accuracy of 1,04 MOA, many instances shoot less than 1 MOA, the early ones consistently fired at 0,7 - 0,8, and there were instances that shot 0,5 MOA.
            1. Basarev
              Basarev April 21 2014 20: 06
              0
              It seems that I was guided by not entirely reliable sources ... But this does not change the essence - there are subminute SVD and there were unit samples with an excellent half-minute. And at the same time they used the most ordinary rifle cartridge. I believe that when we create a real sniper ammunition, let it charge to them an exceptional half-minute SVD - that accuracy and accuracy will increase even more. True, there is a question for optics - the four-time PSO-1 for such a hypothetical ultra-precise rifle does not look too serious.
      2. tchoni
        tchoni April 20 2014 07: 51
        +3
        Quote: SLX


        Oh yeah! Yes! The seven or eight trunks per working day that they can now produce - this will certainly turn the world market around. The main thing is that the master toolmaker, sharpening the drill, does not get sick, otherwise all the production on figs will rise without him and no CNC machines will help.

        There remains a "trifle" - to equip the Russian army and Russian special services in the required quantity with modern sniper weapons, made not to Western standards, but to Russian ones. But you can see this will have to wait a long time.

        Sorry, but a rifle of this class in the army in droves and is not needed. There simply are not so many shooters capable of realizing its potential. For the SVD troops, the solution is almost perfect, and the barrel represented here is a weapon of special forces, and even then not all. Yes, and a cartridge for such a rifle - a thing not cheap and piece
        1. SLX
          SLX April 20 2014 09: 19
          +2
          Quote: tchoni
          Sorry, but a rifle of this class in the army in droves and is not needed. There simply are not so many shooters capable of realizing its potential. For the SVD troops, the solution is almost perfect, and the barrel represented here is a weapon of special forces, and even then not all.


          Calculate the approximate productivity of "Promtechnology" on trunks (the number of working days for seven to eight trunks per day minus rejects), then read the comments of the respected Timeout about the annual need for trunks per sniper and as a result you get the approximate number of snipers that a small private shop can provide with trunks. The calculation will be very approximate, but the order of the numbers will be very, very indicative.

          Then estimate the number of main consumers in the heap of offices - FSB, FSO, MVD, MO. And for a rough assessment, take in that in every region of the Russian Federation sniper groups with such weapons are needed, at least in the regional units of the FSB and in the regional special forces of the Ministry of Internal Affairs (which, incidentally, are not sitting idle). So even for them the trunks are not enough. Therefore, the discrepancy between the capabilities of the manufacturer and the needs will be an order of magnitude, if not an order of magnitude. And, of course, the line units of the Moscow Region, Ministry of Internal Affairs (BB), and the FSB (PV) are out of the question.

          Quote: tchoni
          Yes, and a cartridge for such a rifle - a thing not cheap and piece


          This is another shame on our defense industry and our generals from the Moscow Region and the military-industrial complex. They, they see, are dreaming everything on the scale of the Third World War and rotor lines, which is why it is still there. Although sovereign concepts of the production of sniper ammunition had to be reviewed twenty years ago, and it was high time to start manufacturing them. Only one long, long ago obsolete requirement to drive 7H1 with a bimetal bullet shell is clear, although long ago it was possible to switch to sniper bullets to tompak.

          Orientation for the purchase of cartridges from adversaries not only increases their cost and carries various risks (for example, the risks of sanctions), but also runs counter to Russian requirements and views on combat use. And this is very serious!

          So, for example, many adversary cartridges are equipped with primers designed for reliable operation at temperatures from -40 to +40. Therefore, in a Russian frost of -50, they do not provide stable internal ballistics and can even give pressure upshots, which can lead to damage to the weapon. And at +50 there, the pressure is equivalent to firing cartridges with an enhanced charge. And it seems to be a trifle - you think, some kind of capsule. And there are a lot of such "trifles" ...
          1. tchoni
            tchoni April 20 2014 22: 26
            +2
            You see, the number of tasks requiring accurate shooting at 1,5 - 2 km - one, two, and missed. In reality, combat missions are solved at a distance of up to 1 km. no further. If further. it is easier to connect artillery and other mortars. therefore, for an army rifle, a distance of 800 m -1000 m is necessary and sufficient (by analogy with the strength of alcohol - up to 40 degrees is permissible and sometimes necessary - further - brute force if the goal is not just to cut into a small vinaigrette.) And at such distances SVD for the RF Armed Forces, even hundreds of SUCH rifles will be just right - and a thousand is just too much, because such a "volyn" requires a non-acidic course of external ballistics + a ballistic computer + a normal observer. And where have you seen this in the "motorized rifle" troops?
            I apologize if I offended anyone. but, in my opinion, a real army sniper relies on a rangefinder in optics and the help of the Almighty + his own mind and cunning, and further than 800 m (and that, according to the notorious foreman-ensign themselves themselves experienced) does not shoot.
            1. SLX
              SLX April 21 2014 11: 38
              +2
              Quote: tchoni
              You see, the number of tasks requiring accurate shooting at 1,5 - 2 km - one, two, and miscalculated. Really combat missions are solved at a distance of up to 1 km. no further.


              High-precision rifles are not only range, but also accuracy, which, for example, the average SVD cannot provide at similar distances. Therefore, high-precision rifles expand the capabilities of special units, incl. "lengthening their arms" and significantly increasing capabilities at medium and short distances due to better accuracy and increased power.

              Quote: tchoni
              If further. it’s easier to connect artillery and other mortars.


              Not easier. Artillery cannot react instantly, requires adjustment and is expensive. Therefore, for example, counter-sniper combat in a "small" war cannot be waged with artillery alone.

              Quote: tchoni
              therefore, for an army rifle, a distance of 800 m -1000 m is necessary and sufficient ... And at such distances SVD


              And why are forces and means divided into regimental, divisional, etc.? To solve your range of tasks. But for some reason, a different approach prevailed in solving sniper tasks - one tool for all tasks, and even Afghanistan did not help clear the brains of our brave generals.

              SVD - rifle battlefield and regimental snipers. And no more. In divisions and armies (to which we will return anyway) there should be sniper groups that solve problems that are not accessible to regimental snipers both in terms of knowledge and weapons. For example, when regimental snipers begin to lose in the counter-sniper fight. Accordingly, they need another toolkit - more expensive, but also better.

              And besides this, there is also numerous intelligence, which also needs different sniper rifles. For SVD and Vintorez are good, but nobody canceled the task of destroying the enemy’s equipment in their rear, and it’s better to solve them from afar. And large-caliber rifles are the mass and dimensions of both rifles and b / c
              1. tchoni
                tchoni April 22 2014 09: 57
                0
                "SVD is a rifle of the battlefield and regimental snipers. And no more. In divisions and armies (to which we will return anyway) there should be sniper groups that solve problems that are not available to regimental snipers both in terms of knowledge and weapons. For example, when regimental snipers begin to lose in counter-sniper combat. Accordingly, they need a different toolkit - more expensive, but better. "

                Almost agree with you. at the division level, it’s really worth having something like a platoon of highly trained snipers solving tasks of high complexity and for them such a rifle is vital. but these are 20-30 rifles per division - 200-300 rifles for all aircraft + 100-200 for the BB and the Ministry of Internal Affairs (although in my opinion a rifle of this kind is just the last for the latter, because they often have to work in conditions when they need selective target defeat)



                "It is not easier. Artillery cannot react instantly, requires adjustment and is an expensive pleasure. Therefore, for example, counter-sniper combat in a" small "war cannot be waged with artillery alone."
                Here I do not agree. Potma as artillery of the company - battalion unit (i.e. ordinary mortar and AGS) is a very powerful argument in the counter-sniper fight. Due to the possibility of firing due to the shelter and covering of solid areas. In some cases, RPGs are simply irreplaceable (shooting through a bush and tree crowns)

                "And why are forces and assets divided into regimental, divisional, etc.? To solve their own range of tasks. But for some reason, a different approach prevailed in solving sniper tasks - one tool for all tasks, and even Afghanistan did not help clear the brains of our to the gallant generals. "

                The fact is that SVD is very convenient. Accurate enough (The accuracy of the battle with a 7N1 sniper cartridge was 1,04 MOA for comparison, the M24 sniper rifle when using a sniper cartridge has a grouping of 1,18 MOA, for M40 - 1), the carrier in the carrier is 4.5 kg versus 6.5 for the M40 and the service is unified on a cartridge with a machine gun (the shooting quality of course falls, but nevertheless on pitless fish and pike cancer) I repeat, even professionals prefer it to solve ordinary tasks (i.e. shooting at lengths up to 800 m. lack of rigid target selection) . there was no need burning in a high-precision rifle that's all. And those 500 people who really need such a rifle simply did not take it for their problems compared to the world revolution - nothing. And it is very pleasing that now they began to turn to face this minority.


                "And besides that, there is also a lot of intelligence, which also needs different sniper rifles." - here it is not entirely clear. If we mean purely reconnaissance activities, a sniper rifle is needed only as a cover for retreat. If we add sabotage ships - then yes, I agree one hundred percent, although, again, SVD solves 80 percent and deviation tasks.
                1. SLX
                  SLX April 22 2014 14: 30
                  +1
                  Quote: tchoni
                  Almost agree with you. at the division level, it’s really worth having something like a platoon of highly trained snipers solving tasks of high complexity and for them such a rifle is vital. but it's 20-30 rifles per division


                  This is only part of a new approach to military sniping in the part of the OSH. For:

                  1. Already a regiment needs a regiment sniper group engaged in combat training, helping to organize the proper combat use of regular snipers in battalions and companies, solving complex sniper tasks in the interests of the regiment. These are just a few high-precision rifles for them, but in the division this is already a substantial increase in them.

                  2. It is necessary to abandon the principle of "one soldier - one gun" for snipers. In the same regimental reconnaissance company, scout snipers, in addition to the existing regular SVD and Vintorez, should also have high-precision rifles. Not for everyone, of course, but even two or three such rifles in a regimental reconnaissance company will make significant adjustments to your assessments of divisional needs.

                  In linear battalions, such rifles are most likely superfluous, even in battalion reconnaissance platoons. But there is a practice in local conflicts of raiding from linear battalions, but it’s better to look closely and think a lot before making a decision.

                  3. And in the division there is also reconnaissance battalion.

                  Quote: tchoni
                  "And besides that, there is also a lot of intelligence, which also needs different sniper rifles." - here it is not entirely clear.


                  I meant that in addition to high-precision sniper rifles of the usual caliber, there are also large-caliber sniper rifles, which should also be an integral part of the sniper weapons system of military snipers. Where exactly and exactly how much is a separate issue, but I’m more about the concept - it’s impossible to assign all sniper tasks in the troops to SVD and Vintorez only.

                  Quote: tchoni
                  If we keep in mind purely reconnaissance activity, a sniper rifle is needed only as a cover for retreat. If we add sabotage vessels, then yes I fully agree, although again SVD solves 80 percent of diversion tasks.


                  Decides. But "long arms" can significantly reduce the risks in solving these 80% problems by increasing the distance. Therefore, the question, at least, is already worthy of discussion, which, naturally, must be discussed with the participation of people who solve these 80% of problems.

                  Quote: tchoni
                  200-300 rifles for all aircraft + 100-200 for the BB and the Ministry of Internal Affairs (although in my opinion a rifle of this kind is more suitable for the latter, since they often have to work in conditions where selective target destruction is required).


                  BB is already part of the sun. ;) But not the point. Counting the structure. In addition to the SV, there are fleet marines, airborne forces, and GRU special forces. They do not belong to the motor-shooting divisions. Therefore, your grades are already seriously underestimated. Troops of other offices - VV MVD and PV FSB. There are also units, formations, training centers, etc., i.e. not so simple. Special forces of the FSB and the Ministry of Internal Affairs with their regional division and constant work in these areas. And you won’t get away with one rifle, and you won’t run into the neighboring region if needed. Well, and the FSO.

                  So there are thousands, but not hundreds.
                  1. tchoni
                    tchoni April 28 2014 20: 42
                    0
                    You convinced me. Regarding the number of high-class rifles needed in the troops, I agree with you, (my 300 - 500 are really few) but I'm not talking about that a bit. I’m trying to convey the idea that the accuracy of a shot at long and very long distances depends more on external conditions and the training of specialists, and not just on the class of the rifle. Just organizing the normal training of sniper groups, and thinking over the organization of their combat work, as well as having done some work with the rest of the personnel in this direction, you can achieve tremendous results (the beaten analogy, but I can not resist - we recall the Wehrmacht of the sample from the early forties) - at the same give time to fools super-screws - there won’t be any sense. Therefore, I believe that auxiliary rifles - I don’t even know how to say it, probably like leggings in the gym - can protect your hands from corns, but they won’t make you stronger.
                2. SLX
                  SLX April 22 2014 14: 39
                  +1
                  Quote: tchoni
                  The fact is that SVD is very convenient. Accurate enough ...


                  I am in no way against SVD. I am against the fact that with its help in the XNUMXst century they tried to solve all problems, as they did forty years ago.

                  Quote: tchoni
                  Here I do not agree. Potma as artillery of the company - battalion unit (i.e. ordinary mortar and AGS) is a very powerful argument in the counter-sniper fight. Due to the possibility of firing due to the shelter and covering of solid areas. In some cases, RPGs are simply irreplaceable (shooting through a bush and tree crowns)


                  Artillery and heavy infantry weapons are not a prodigy. The effectiveness of their combat use is based primarily on competent management, and their performance characteristics are already secondary. Artillery is capable of delivering a fire defeat, but only if it is the final chord in the system of numerous counter-sniper events. And this fire defeat is not the primary goal of these events - the primary goal is to save people, then equipment, etc. And, of course, a sniper should not jeopardize the performance of combat missions! And only a sniper can press a whole company to the ground - believe in a word that the sensations are unforgettable.

                  For example, a mini-garrison with its mortars, infantry fighting vehicles and other threats. Surveillance of the perimeter is not enough, even if it is conducted by artillery scouts. By the way, the perimeter still needs to be prepared. Exit to the position of a sniper is carried out covertly, watch carefully and try to hide the flash of the shot. And a bullet in the head is more likely than notching a flash of a shot. So, what is next? Consumption of shells and mines by area?

                  Therefore, it is necessary to assess the terrain, possible layoffs (including non-standard ones), ways of moving away from them, temporary anti-shelling caches, possible methods of action of snipers, etc. And this cannot be properly assessed without the participation of professional snipers and / or appropriate training and experience (do we have any instructions on these issues for platoons and companies?). That's when there will be such assessments, then it is possible to make plans for firing raids on the beds, caches and escape routes.

                  But much more effective in the fight against snipers will be brought not by passive defensive actions, even with the participation of artillery, but by active ones - ambushes, mining (including special mine clearance), installation of remote reconnaissance systems and sniper detection equipment, etc.
            2. SLX
              SLX April 21 2014 11: 41
              +2
              Quote: tchoni
              Therefore, for the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, even hundreds of SUCH rifles will be just right - and a thousand is just too much, because such a "volyn" requires a non-acidic course of external ballistics + a ballistic computer + a normal observer. And where have you seen this in the "motorized rifle" troops?


              And who said that the motorized infantry troops meet today's requirements? These troops passed Afghanistan, b / d during the collapse of the USSR, Chechnya, and the multi-star generals of these troops could analyze the experience of dozens of other military conflicts taking place at the same time. And draw conclusions. But they don’t want to. And they do not know how.

              In our minds, only hundreds of such rifles are needed in divisional (or at least in army) sniper groups. Hundreds of such rifles are needed by intelligence and special forces. There should also be training centers where they prepare the best shots for the senior sniper link. Etc. And there is also the VV MVD, PV FSB. And they also have tasks for snipers. And in the mobile reserve it would not be bad to finally put something within reasonable limits. Etc. And on a circle around the country - thousands and thousands.

              Quote: tchoni
              I apologize if I offended anyone.


              What insults? Calm interesting conversation with different opinions.

              Quote: tchoni
              but, in my opinion, a real army sniper relies on a rangefinder in optics and the help of the Almighty + his own mind and cunning, and further than 800 m (and that, according to the notorious foreman-ensign themselves themselves experienced) does not shoot.


              Our military sniping was reduced to a level below the baseboard and has been on it for decades. SVD in the teeth conscript, because the state laid, and forward. And they taught him shooting from SVD, but not sniping - there was nobody to teach. And we still have many combined arms commanders who neither understand the significance of sniping, nor the role of mortars, nor why do we need a maneuver, etc. And for all these we pay with blood. Although it’s high time to start drawing conclusions from other people's experience.
            3. radar1967
              radar1967 April 22 2014 04: 25
              +1
              I agree. SVD - 500-800m. At 1km you can get into the barrel. But, there is always a need for a rifle operating at 1,5-2km. The interaction between the armed forces is always at the lowest level. No one will ever give you a mortar or a gun.
              T-5000 must still withstand Pakistani conditions / ??? /. And this dust, dirt, rain, and weapons in the mountains have the ability to icy with an incredibly huge crust. Pieces have to break ice.
              1. tchoni
                tchoni April 28 2014 20: 44
                0
                sorry, but 1,5 - 2 km is a shot from the category "I cooked for a month - I hit once" here even a large caliber does not save - it is very difficult.
  11. Oml
    Oml April 19 2014 09: 56
    +3
    "Or maybe when Sylvester Stolone arrives, we will show him the latest developments in aircraft construction and help him produce the best aircraft or helicopter to surpass all the previous ones?"
  12. Hikar
    Hikar April 19 2014 10: 10
    0
    200 000 p approximately worth
  13. sandrmur76
    sandrmur76 April 19 2014 10: 36
    +2
    Heard Stephen Seagal is not the last place he has among world-famous snipers. Therefore, he understands small arms.
    1. Wiruz
      Wiruz April 19 2014 10: 56
      +5
      Last place out of how many? If out of ten, this does not mean that he does not understand weapons. Anyway, in any case, he looks into the sight more often than we do.
      1. tchoni
        tchoni April 20 2014 22: 27
        +1
        no guys, Seagal is a real bench-rester. Maybe not a champion, but he understands something in something.
  14. Quantum
    Quantum April 19 2014 10: 45
    +1
    A dozen of these rifles in eastern Ukraine, stopped and scared
    byzoborzhevyh mercenaries in the form of fighters Falcon. And, Natsik from PR just
    would have fled.
  15. Wiruz
    Wiruz April 19 2014 10: 54
    0
    It’s time to adopt this beauty. And on its basis, or on the basis of the VS-8, do self-loading.
  16. Monster_Fat
    Monster_Fat April 19 2014 11: 27
    +2
    You should not pass off the products of a semi-handicraft shop as a kind of "race" and "achievement". This "enterprise" itself is a completely finished production process made in Austria and Germany - that is, there is, in general, no machine tool made in Russia. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of similar small arms shops producing single "mod" copies of small arms or even small batches of it for special forces, police, etc., all over the world. It is enough to watch the series "Boys with Cannons" about the activities of such a group of "Red Jecket" in the USA to be convinced of this.
    1. Timeout
      Timeout April 20 2014 12: 17
      +1
      Quote: Monster_Fat
      Similar small arms shops

      I will support you "Fat Monster", such an enterprise will never go beyond the custom series. And even if you look at the price list of Orsis, you can see the nomenclature immediately. And so the Glock "screwdriver" for crazy money, and the T5000 is manufactured using technologies for a citizen, and wrap-around optics ...
  17. Little Muck
    Little Muck April 19 2014 12: 21
    +2
    You can praise or cherish our news, a matter of taste, commitment, understanding the essence of the issue, etc.
    But the fact that Seagal belongs to the elite in the world of snipers is a fact. And a person who values ​​his reputation would not have ventured into an adventure, is also a fact.
    And I’ll say it again. It is a pity we do not have a law allowing us to have such weapons for personal use.
    I would like that.
    1. SLX
      SLX April 19 2014 18: 35
      +1
      Quote: Little Muck
      But the fact that Seagal belongs to the elite in the world of snipers is a fact.


      And where can I find the details of this fact? Has he been regularly involved in special operations as a sniper for the last 10-15 years? Or maybe he became a multiple champion in some kind of shooting? Or opened his own school, where he teaches snipers, who are the sniper elite? If not, then how sideways did he get into the world elite of snipers?
      1. Little Muck
        Little Muck April 20 2014 01: 35
        +1
        Quote: SLX
        And where can I find the details of this fact?


        RT in Russian

        Published on October 11th. 2013 year
        The famous Hollywood actor Stephen Seagal visited the exhibition "Hunting and Fishing", held in Moscow. Being an excellent sniper, the American actor praised the new generation of Russian weapons. During a visit to Russia in the spring of 2013, Stephen Seagal became the face of a Russian arms manufacturer

        http://www.rg.ru/2013/10/03/sigal-site.html

        Steven Seagal. Military Secret. 28.10.2013
        Stephen Seagal is an aikido master and sniper. Arrival in Russia.
        31.10.2013
        www.youtube.com
        1. Timeout
          Timeout April 20 2014 04: 23
          +2
          Quote: Little Muck
          Stephen Seagal - Aikido Master and Sniper

          I can answer a similar trick by the media, crippled fingers during fights and training do not add accuracy when shooting. One of the two, or you're a sniper, or a melee.
          1. Polevik
            Polevik April 20 2014 10: 55
            +3
            Quote: Timeout
            One of the two, or you're a sniper, or a melee.

            You say the thing. In our time, snipers were generally forbidden to melee. And they had their own fizuha. But they gave the result - dear mother!
          2. andron72
            andron72 April 20 2014 16: 35
            0
            I watch drugan everything you know, but on the moon we don’t have a base laughing
        2. SLX
          SLX April 20 2014 09: 27
          +1
          Quote: Little Muck
          Published on October 11th. 2013 year


          The main problem of quotes on the Internet is that people immediately believe in their authenticity (V.I. Lenin) (c)
    2. Alexey Prikazchikov
      Alexey Prikazchikov April 19 2014 19: 06
      +3
      And I’ll say it again. It is a pity we do not have a law allowing us to have such weapons for personal use.
      I would like that.


      You can buy it. buy a smoothbore then a hunting license. Wait 5 years and voila.
    3. The comment was deleted.
  18. Free wind
    Free wind April 19 2014 14: 21
    +1
    Trunks for rifles are foreign, more precisely, barrel stocks. Alas, the metals and alloys of the remaining parts are also foreign.
  19. siberalt
    siberalt April 19 2014 14: 22
    +1
    And what are more real targets for these tests in Saudi Arabia? laughing
  20. Fofan
    Fofan April 19 2014 15: 39
    +2
    the sad thing is that these rifles do on fully imported equipment.
    that’s when ours will be able to make similar equipment that will be competitive in world markets, then I’ll be happy.
  21. mig31
    mig31 April 19 2014 15: 47
    +2
    Fashion for everything Russian has always been from sables, etc. etc....
  22. federal
    federal April 19 2014 17: 59
    +3
    When I first picked up SVDeshku, I got the feeling that you were hugging a girl, and Orsis was generally a couch.
    1. radar1967
      radar1967 April 22 2014 03: 20
      0
      I also called my "Tanyuha".
  23. kocclissi
    kocclissi April 19 2014 23: 13
    +1
    This is far from an army tool! Like a Ferrari is not a business class!
  24. silver169
    silver169 April 20 2014 05: 27
    +1
    The T-5000 rifle is good, but it is an expensive weapon, for specialists, not for the army. And we need as soon as possible to develop a cheaper mass sniper rifle for the Russian army to replace the SVD. This could be done by ORSIS.
    1. Timeout
      Timeout April 20 2014 12: 01
      +1
      Quote: silver169
      The T-5000 rifle is good, but it is an expensive weapon, for specialists, not for the army.

      The manufacturer made this weapon expensive, as a similar barrel from Steyr wrote above costs less than 2000 bucks.
    2. SLX
      SLX April 20 2014 17: 12
      +4
      Quote: silver169
      The T-5000 rifle is good, but it is an expensive weapon, for specialists, not for the army.


      With imported barrel blanks, with such productivity, with this form of ownership and with such a resource of trunks, these are insane risks for consumers. And at such a price and with the availability of domestic technologies, schools of design and production that have not yet died, this is also a lot of sovereign money thrown into the pocket of nimble private traders.

      Quote: silver169
      And we need as soon as possible to develop a cheaper mass sniper rifle for the Russian army to replace the SVD.


      And what does SVD not like? Have our distances changed on the battlefield? Or did the accuracy requirements increase sharply? In addition, the SVD has a considerable reserve both in the barrel and in cartridges.

      At SVD, the rifling pitch was changed from 320 mm (for sniper 7N1) to 240 mm (to use the entire range of domestic rifle and machine gun cartridges, especially BZT), which significantly impaired its accuracy by 7N1. And the barrel manufacturing technology also has considerable reserves.

      The 7H1 sniper cartridge was originally designed for a rifling pitch of 320 mm. The introduction of a cartridge with a heavy bullet to the tank will also expand the capabilities of SVD. A slight increase in the cost of sniper bullets by changing the material of the bullet shell (bimetal, at least on tompak, but better on something new or even good old cupronickel) is also an increase in accuracy. There will probably be problems with armor-piercing sniper - I don’t know what step of the rifling it was designed for. But even if it is under 240 mm, then this is a completely solvable question and simpler than designing a new model of a mass sniper rifle.

      This is even without sights and other things. Therefore, if you approach the matter in a businesslike way, and not as always, then the SVD will be envious for a long time.

      Quote: silver169
      This could be done by ORSIS.


      Could. Especially if the money was given immeasurably. Only in this case ORSIS will act as a general contractor, distributing a lot of orders and pocketing a considerable amount of money for its effective management.

      And the real work will be done by those who have experience, personnel, proven technologies and expensive equipment for testing experimental samples.
  25. saag
    saag April 20 2014 08: 40
    +2
    Quote: silver169
    And we need as soon as possible to develop a cheaper mass sniper rifle for the Russian army to replace the SVD.

    What does SVD not suit?
    1. Nikita_Pilot
      Nikita_Pilot April 20 2014 11: 49
      +2
      It may be old, but everything performs its tasks smoothly. It is more powerful and the lethal force is higher, plus the accuracy of the bolt rifles is also higher than that of semi-automatic ones.
      1. Timeout
        Timeout April 20 2014 12: 03
        +1
        Quote: Nikita_Pilot
        It may be old, but everything performs its tasks smoothly. It is more powerful and the lethal force is higher, plus the accuracy of the bolt rifles is also higher than that of semi-automatic ones.

        Yes, it does and there are instances that hit 0,5 MOA. Power sets not the barrel but the ammunition!
  26. Nikita_Pilot
    Nikita_Pilot April 20 2014 11: 45
    0
    6C8 is better. Maybe it's some kind of separate class of sniper rifles? I do not know, but 7.62 for me is so small in 6C8 12,7 mm am .
  27. suomi42
    suomi42 April 20 2014 15: 19
    +2
    Russian small arms have traditionally been considered the best in the world for centuries. Our task is not to lose this tradition.
  28. Free Island
    Free Island April 20 2014 18: 17
    0
    as soon as something directional is done in Russia, there will immediately be a couple of rubber contraceptive products that will offend everyone.
  29. Dezinto
    Dezinto April 20 2014 18: 32
    +1
    He must already issue a Russian passport! ... Normal uncle!
  30. marrrat
    marrrat April 20 2014 20: 34
    -1
    not so scary Russian tank as his drunk crew
  31. the handsome
    the handsome April 20 2014 21: 12
    +1
    What kind of industrial mass production are we talking about? Such rifles throughout Russia (Army, FSB, FSO, etc.) need two hundred pieces of force. Such rifles are purely piece goods, as are specialists who can realize their capabilities.
  32. tchoni
    tchoni April 20 2014 22: 37
    +1
    The mattress covers distinguish between the "SNIPER" rifle and the "SUPPORT RIFLE". A sniper is a screw cutter capable of solving SPECIAL tasks (such as when one cupcake should be bent, and 99 people standing nearby to remain alive) at a distance of up to 2 km. A support rifle is such a crap that can hit a lying person from 1000 m, and it's good if it hooks someone else on the way (there are no enemies of ours there). the first one is piece. the second is massive. So - the discussed device is the first option. And if YOU try to make it massive - you are incorrigible romantics :-)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
    1. Obliterator
      Obliterator April 20 2014 23: 47
      +1
      Quote: tchoni
      The mattress covers distinguish between the "SNIPER" rifle and the "SUPPORT RIFLE". A sniper is a screw cutter capable of solving SPECIAL tasks (such as when one cupcake should be bent, and 99 people standing nearby to remain alive) at a distance of up to 2 km. A support rifle is such a crap that can hit a lying person from 1000 m, and it's good if it hooks someone else on the way (there are no enemies of ours there). the first one is piece. the second is massive. So - the discussed device is the first option. And if YOU try to make it massive - you are incorrigible romantics :-)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

      Well, these very mattress mattresses of this class are immediately ordered by thousands - are they incorrigible romantics? Yes, they use it not for some special tasks, but for the most ordinary army - shooting everything that moves. What are they doing wrong?
      Quote: Monster_Fat
      It is enough to watch the series "Boys with Cannons" about the activities of such a group of "Red Jecket" in the USA to be convinced of this.

      Red Jacket is exclusively engaged in the peeling of ready-made guns.
      1. tchoni
        tchoni April 21 2014 07: 46
        +1
        I don’t quite understand what you’re talking about (it’s me about thousands of rifles) with a regular rifle. usa is the m40 (with modifications) of these rifles was ordered a total of 700 pieces. in the present time in the ranks of about 500. + several hundred 50-caliber rifles of various modifications. At the same time, I want to note that the m-40 class is much lower than the sample presented here
        1. Obliterator
          Obliterator April 21 2014 13: 11
          0
          M40 is only the ILC, but there is the US Army, which owns just thousands. Recently, they ordered a large-scale rework of the M24 in the XM2010 to increase the firing range. Why do you think that the M40 is much worse than ORSIS? She shoots very well too.
          1. tchoni
            tchoni April 28 2014 20: 49
            0
            Well, the M40 Barrel is made with less accuracy. The second as a bed material - plastic or wood - due to different TCR - the point of impact floats depending on the temperature. I’ll say that this rifle is MUCH worse, but then the SVD can be said to be in the same class with them.
      2. Alex 1977
        Alex 1977 April 21 2014 12: 31
        +1
        Quote: Obliterator

        Well, these very mattress mattresses of this class are immediately ordered by thousands - are they incorrigible romantics? Yes, they use it not for some special tasks, but for the most ordinary army - shooting everything that moves. What are they doing wrong?

        And who said it was right?
        They and the Harriers order. And the F35B.
        And a lot of junk.
        Weapons are ordered under military doctrine.
        The effectiveness of military doctrine is proved by wars won.
        The Yankees have problems with this. Yes, a strong sniper school.
        But is it needed in such quantity, with such armament and tactics of application, or is it PR, tradition and conservatism?
        We have here the landing with sapper blades rushes well. And no one denies the usefulness and effectiveness of this skill. In certain situations.
        But no one is going to buy diamond-coated titanium blades on the edge.
        A batch of a million pieces.
        And even more so, replace these blades with BSL for sappers and armored personnel carriers ...
        1. Obliterator
          Obliterator April 21 2014 18: 13
          -1
          Quote: Alexey 1977
          And who said it was right?
          They and the Harriers order. And the F35B.
          And a lot of junk.
          Weapons are ordered under military doctrine.
          The effectiveness of military doctrine is proved by wars won.
          The Yankees have problems with this. Yes, a strong sniper school.
          But is it needed in such quantity, with such armament and tactics of application, or is it PR, tradition and conservatism?
          We have here the landing with sapper blades rushes well. And no one denies the usefulness and effectiveness of this skill. In certain situations.
          But no one is going to buy diamond-coated titanium blades on the edge.
          A batch of a million pieces.
          And even more so, replace these blades with BSL for sappers and armored personnel carriers ...

          What does it mean right? Or are you one of those who think that professional snipers should only be in all kinds of FSB / FSO and other special forces, and let the army men paw? Army snipers, specially trained and armed with high-precision rifles, work, and work, judging by the reviews of the Yankees, very productively. Moreover, the price is by no means the space price for them - the sum of the contract for deep modernization of all army M24 with the replacement of almost all parts is equivalent to the price of only one F-15C Eagle fighter, which the Pentagon generally has hundreds. That is, within the military budget, this is generally a penny. No one is going to completely change the SVD to a T-5000 rifle, but in addition to it, it is also needed.
          1. Alex 1977
            Alex 1977 April 21 2014 21: 08
            +1
            Quote: Obliterator

            What does it mean right? Or are you one of those who think that professional snipers should only be in all kinds of FSB / FSO and other special forces, and let the army men paw?
            I don’t count anything. I urge you not to spoil the fever.
            [
            Army snipers, specially trained and armed with high-precision rifles, work, and work, judging by the reviews of the Yankees, very productively.

            The key phrase is Yankee reviews.
            moreover, there are two nuances - the first, as far as this is true.
            The second - completely different charters, the principles of interaction between the armed forces, and so on. The devil, as always, in the details.

            Moreover, the price is by no means the space price for them - the sum of the contract for deep modernization of all army M24 with the replacement of almost all parts is equivalent to the price of only one F-15C Eagle fighter, which the Pentagon generally has hundreds. That is, within the military budget, this is generally a penny. No one is going to completely change the SVD to a T-5000 rifle, but in addition to it, it is also needed.

            We speak for the modernization of existing SVD? I'm with both hands for!
            Or the purchase of gentle and extremely expensive weapons, the potential of which is the majority
            can’t use the shooters?
            Moreover, there is no place in the Charter for them, in the logistics system for them there is no place with their Lapua Magnum, in the weapons workshop there is simply no equipment, not people who can repair and maintain such weapons. God, I don’t know for sure, but I’m sure that such trunks cannot even be smeared with ordinary oil. "The British do not clean guns with bricks."
            This is not an AK sledgehammer mending. Speak cheap?
            Or will you send a war guarantee to the rear?
            I repeat - the devil is in the little things,
            1. Obliterator
              Obliterator April 22 2014 01: 11
              +1
              Quote: Alexey 1977
              We speak for the modernization of existing SVD? I'm with both hands for!
              Or the purchase of gentle and extremely expensive weapons, the potential of which is the majority
              can’t use the shooters?
              Moreover, there is no place in the Charter for them, in the logistics system for them there is no place with their Lapua Magnum, in the weapons workshop there is simply no equipment, not people who can repair and maintain such weapons. God, I don’t know for sure, but I’m sure that such trunks cannot even be smeared with ordinary oil. "The British do not clean guns with bricks."
              This is not an AK sledgehammer mending. Speak cheap?
              Or will you send a war guarantee to the rear?
              I repeat - the devil is in the little things,

              Modernization of SVD? Well, if someone can breathe a second life into SVD so that it will compete with bolts in accuracy of shooting, then honor and praise be to him. But most likely a miracle will not happen, and you will need an accurate long-range rifle like ORSIS. Yes, and trends are moving towards a greater spread of magnum calibers, and self-loading rifles for them almost never produce. So that
              I completely agree with you about the little things. Oh, very much they affect our life. However, the rest ...
              I probably won’t reveal the big secret if I say that generally for any army news there is no place either in the charter or in the logistics. But they are sure to appear there when this very novelty enters the army, and if not, then this is a jamb of performers, not products.
              As for chemistry - yes, more substances are needed. But the rules. snipers are always very kind to their weapons, they do not need to be forced to clean the rifle after firing.
              This weapon is not at all something cosmic and incomprehensible, it is the same firearm, treat it normally, that is, as prescribed by the user manual and everything will be OK. By design, it (a rifle), by the way, is even more reliable than the vaunted AK or SVD, because the design has much fewer moving parts than there.
              Quote: Alexey 1977
              The key phrase is Yankee reviews.
              moreover, there are two nuances - the first, as far as this is true.

              It seems to me that the sniper profession has long proved its effectiveness and need for military conflicts. We know that the Yankees do not spare money on the training and armaments of their snipers, plus they definitely do not have a lack of combat experience. In my opinion, everything is quite believable. I don’t doubt a word about the Yankees saying that a sniper is a very good (if not the best) way to clear the streets of those who like to shoot from a grenade launcher.
              1. tchoni
                tchoni April 30 2014 09: 26
                0
                Quote: Obliterator

                Modernization of SVD? Well, if someone can breathe a second life into SVD so that it will compete with bolts in accuracy of shooting, then honor and praise be to him. But most likely a miracle will not happen, and you will need an accurate long-range rifle like ORSIS.

                SVD is quite accurate. The accuracy of the fight with a sniper cartridge 7N1 1,04 MOA for comparison, the M24 sniper rifle when using a sniper cartridge has a grouping of 1,18 MOA, for M40 - 1), the carrier carrying 4.5 kg versus 6.5 for the M40 and almost 5.5 without sight and a magazine for the M24 ( with devices 7.3) and service, unified on a cartridge with a machine gun (the quality of the shooting, of course, falls, but nonetheless on pikeless fish and cancer pike). Moreover, firing at a pace from the SVD is much easier than from recharging.
  33. silberwolf88
    silberwolf88 April 21 2014 01: 22
    +2
    The rifle is good 10+.
    The line between special tasks and support tasks is now blurring as the tactics of warfare become more complicated, in the absence of a solid front line, the presence of significant goals in the order of the units, therefore, despite the high cost and complexity of training those who use it (including command personnel as organizers of using all fire means) its widespread use is possible.
  34. 51064
    51064 April 21 2014 02: 26
    +2
    Quote: SLX
    These rifles are designed for upscale profs who need to shoot a lot and regularly. Very rude (because it’s never a sniper), but if 50 rounds per week, then in fact the rifle’s life on the barrel is burned in a year. Is it so? And what to do with such a resource, because a sniper with his rifle should be related? Training rifles and barrel replacement once a year on them

    Well why the pros. The rifle has a pretty decent .338 Win Mag caliber, if I'm not mistaken. Pros are not those who put a hole in a hole at a dash with a 50m hole, but those who work in a field in conditions that are really close to combat, or work in combat. Trunks do not count, the main thing is to complete the task. The trunk can be changed, but the person - no. And this is the beauty - the barrel is worn out, but please, you can put a new one, exactly the same. Shooting is never too much, if only not to the detriment of the rest of the training tasks, so let the trunks wear out and the soldiers gain combat experience.
    1. Obliterator
      Obliterator April 21 2014 02: 51
      0
      Quote: 51064
      Shooting is never too much, if only not to the detriment of the rest of the training tasks, so let the trunks wear out and the soldiers gain combat experience.

      Your skills as a rifle shooter can be trained on much cheaper weapon systems. Or even use shooting simulators such as the "Scutt".
    2. Allegedly
      Allegedly April 21 2014 12: 35
      +1
      Quote: 51064
      To shoot is never too much


      The goal (in many senses of the word) - justifies the means.
  35. 51064
    51064 April 21 2014 02: 55
    0
    Quote: SLX
    And what does SVD not like? Have our distances changed on the battlefield? Or did the accuracy requirements increase sharply? In addition, the SVD has a considerable reserve both in the barrel and in cartridges.

    The best way is to try it yourself. EVALUATE everything - weapons, cartridges, wind, range finders, target designation. SVD is an excellent universal "apparatus" of mass combat. Have you been hunting? Is there a massive battle on the hunt? Is there a margin for error? Where do you want to go to the eye, hand, finger, leg or head?
    Do you want to kill the victim or just neutralize him? - This is only a small part of the questions and answers at the same time.
    1. SLX
      SLX April 21 2014 09: 47
      0
      Quote: 51064
      This is only a small part of the questions and answers at the same time.


      Sorry, I didn’t understand how your small part of the questions and answers relates to the question.
  36. 51064
    51064 April 21 2014 03: 40
    0
    Quote: Obliterator
    Your skills as a rifle shooter can be trained on much cheaper weapon systems. Or even use shooting simulators such as the "Scutt".

    I agree to a certain extent. But to train a good sniper constantly on the simulator is like for example a skier on a track simulator or training bench trying to teach something and achieve, most importantly, results. I can’t say anything about climbers - they now have artificial routes that reveal the best much more efficiently than natural rocks. But, I think, in relation to military tasks this is not critical.
    1. Obliterator
      Obliterator April 21 2014 13: 33
      0
      Quote: 51064
      I agree to a certain extent. But to train a good sniper constantly on the simulator is like for example a skier on a track simulator or training bench trying to teach something and achieve, most importantly, results. I can’t say anything about climbers - they now have artificial routes that reveal the best much more efficiently than natural rocks. But, I think, in relation to military tasks this is not critical.

      Maybe you do not quite understand me? By no means did I say that the simulator will completely replace the real shot. The simulator allows you to train your shooting technique, that is, for example, smooth descent, proper breathing, etc.
      There is still such an interesting moment about the high cost of snipers - you can train them on a cheaper caliber.
  37. 51064
    51064 April 21 2014 04: 05
    0
    Yes, I forgot about the submariners - they have the same simulators on the move. Especially when it comes to multi-profile dives, special mixtures for breathing, trimixes, rebreathers (so that there are no bubbles))). Basically, in order to avoid mistakes with decompression, the minimum remainder of the respiratory mixture, oxygen poisoning, or nitrogen anesthesia and much more from the nuances. I didn’t dive more than 45 meters, so everything is still ahead)))
  38. Kostya pedestrian
    Kostya pedestrian April 21 2014 09: 21
    +1
    Entertaining optics, it seems that not just a means of guidance and approximation, but also the fixation of the results of shooting. I hope that also Russian production.

    As a counterargument to the second pass, I want to note that according to vio.ru, the first three winning places in the number of victories for our snipers are:


    702 USSR Mikhail Ilyich Surkov (4 s.d.)
    601 CCCP Vladimir Gavrilovich Salbiev (71 GVSD and 95 GvSD)
    534 CCCP Vasily Shalvovich Kvachantiradze (259 p.p.)

    PieS: the exhibit in the photo is very similar to the samples from the movie weapon "Fictional Reality"
  39. No war
    No war April 21 2014 10: 02
    0
    People!!! I am shocked by your anti-Semitic harsh statements. And are you talking about fascism in Ukraine? Why don't you ask the Ukrainians if they needed to be protected like that? Why none of you writes that Ukraine got rid of the president-thief who does not know the sense of proportion? I don’t know if the feeling of shame for the first person of the state is familiar to you, we are familiar !!! Yes, the new government has no authority, no well-coordinated team. Yes, I don't know what our future will be. But when our soldiers are held hostage yours, when the president allows himself to lie and at the same time speak to the whole world that "there is no country, there is no treaty", forgetting that there are people living on this territory who believed him and thought that we -friendly countries, what should Ukrainians think? I don’t know why they had to push our heads together, but there are no Ukrainian tanks "with good intentions" on your land. I can never convince you. We have a different information space. But I want your president's speech yesterday to make you think and at least doubt something. I wish you and us a bright future. Stay human!


    So the majority of residents of Ukraine believes. Let us read and hear them, Ukrainians, if we really consider ourselves their brothers and sisters!
  40. dimitris
    dimitris April 21 2014 10: 09
    0
    Glory to Russian weapons!
  41. larisa gurina
    larisa gurina April 21 2014 10: 48
    +1
    Quote: Kapitan Oleg
    Yes, nationality is not important, the main thing is Russia! Remember Breivik's shooting of youth on the island! Nobody put up any resistance to him, only Russian-Chechens, the rest of the "civilized cultural" only rushed about and waited for death.

    how civilized they are ... they present themselves in such a way, but in fact, they are getting closer to animals ...
  42. DIMAS
    DIMAS April 21 2014 11: 43
    0
    Quote: SLX
    For power, as a rule, they pay with pressure and a greater load on the rifling, so it is not surprising. But then the training of specialists becomes gold.

    so then they are specialists to be golden .....
  43. capex1
    capex1 April 21 2014 15: 04
    +3
    I think RUSSIAN WEAPONS will still make a lot of noise (it will be sold more and more successfully). Lately, American gadgets do not inspire confidence even by the Americans themselves (although ba take the F-35 project).
  44. Pasus
    Pasus April 21 2014 15: 51
    0
    oh, and smashed the coca in recent years, completely bloomed.
  45. dchegrinec
    dchegrinec April 21 2014 17: 54
    0
    It would be good to develop models of weapons not that similar, but many times superior to any existing and promising analogues of foreign production.