Military Review

Will the Kazakhs move to the north?

143
Will the Kazakhs move to the north?



Against the background of the annexation of Crimea to Russia, ideas of mass relocation to the north of the titular population of the country began to be discussed in the public space. However, such a policy is by no means new to Kazakhstan. Moreover, it has already produced quite tangible results, although the Kazakh authorities have so far failed to radically change the ethnic composition of the population of the northern regions.

20 in March, almost immediately after the Crimean referendum and the beginning of the process of legal accession of the peninsula to Russia, the Kazakhstan online publication Matrix.Kz announced plans to resettle in the northern regions of the republic 300 thousand Kazakhs. News It was published with reference to the Kazakh edition of shyn.kz, which, in turn, referred to the Chinese resource tieba.baidu.com. “... In connection with the latest events in Ukraine, Kazakhstan in the three northern regions will strengthen cooperation with China in the agricultural sector,” the report said, “... this large project requires about 200 000 workers. And the total need for people is about 300 000 people. And in this regard, Kazakhstan can use an excess of labor in the south of the country, and China, in turn, can send excess labor from Xinjiang. ”

The scheme of the proposed cooperation of Kazakhstan and China, outlined in this message, is as follows: “1. Kazakhstan gives China the right to lease and use land; 2. A surplus of labor resources from South Kazakhstan is transferred to the north; 3. Excess labor from the northern Xinjiang Altai, Tarbagatai, Ili region, China sends to Kazakhstan; 4. Produced products will be sold on the Kazakhstan market, surplus - in the Chinese; 5. China takes on the financing and provision of equipment. " It has been suggested that the main goal of the project is not in the economic development of the northern regions, which are already the main industrial and grain producing region of Kazakhstan, but in preventing the “Russian reconquest” by mass immigration of people from southern Kazakhstan and eastern regions of the PRC. in the northern regions of Kazakhstan.

The Kazakh authorities have soon denied the existence of such plans. The head of the Ministry of Labor and Social Protection of the Population, Tamara Duysenova, 28 in March, in response to a question from Kazakhstan’s Internet resource Tengrinews.kz, stated that this was not true. “The fact is that there is no such thing,” she noted, “There is a government decree on the resettlement of oralmans in certain regions. If oralmans arrive, then they are provided with more benefits and employment in the northern regions. And the fact that 300 thousands of people relocated - no.

It is noteworthy that the idea of ​​resettlement to the northern regions of the population of the southern regions was discussed as early as October in 2013, when it was far from the events in Ukraine and the Crimea.

She was nominated by Senator Svetlana Dzhalmagambetova, who was concerned not at all about the threat of separatism, but about the introduction of a per capita financing of budgetary institutions that put them in difficult conditions. “I just have the impression that in the north or it’s necessary to close all the villages and say, or let's move people from south to north,” she said, “If there is no school in the village, if there is no settlement in the village, no one’s will not live there. The President moved the capital to have a population here. But everything is around Astana, and then there no one wants to live. ”

It is worth recalling that Kazakhstan started the resettlement of the Kazakhs in the northern regions immediately after the collapse of the USSR. At the time of independence, the majority of the population of its northern and northeastern regions were Russian and other European peoples, which caused the Kazakh authorities hidden concerns about the possible growth of separatist sentiments. According to the all-Union census 1989, Russians constituted the majority of residents of East Kazakhstan, North Kazakhstan, Karaganda, Pavlodar, Tselinograd, Kustanai and Kokchetav, as well as a significant part of the Semipalatinsk and Dzhezkazgan regions, most of whose inhabitants were Kazakhs. In the southern and western regions of Kazakhstan, by contrast, the titular population prevailed. Particularly noticeable was its dominance in the west of the republic, where Kazakhs constituted from 1 / 2 to 2 / 3 inhabitants.

From the point of view of the Kazakh authorities, this situation threatened the territorial integrity of the country. Also at the beginning of the 1990's. The experience of Moldova, which actually lost a large part of its territory as a result of the conflict with Transnistria 1992, was still very fresh.

In order to eliminate ethno-demographic imbalances, the authorities took three groups of measures: they moved the capital from Almaty to Astana, changed the administrative-territorial division of the northern regions, and started moving the Kazakhs from the CIS and foreign countries. The most noticeable, of course, was the transfer of the capital. Its official reasons were the remoteness of Alma-Ata from the geographical center of the republic, poor environmental conditions, increased seismic danger, difficulty of construction work, as well as the need to create a second center of economic growth. In reality, the main reasons were the desire to change the national and ethnic composition of the population in favor of the Kazakhs. In July, 1994, the Supreme Council of Kazakhstan adopted a resolution on the transfer of the capital to the regional center Akmola. In December, 1997, the president, signed a decree that finally fixed the status of the capital to Akmola, six months later renamed Astana, which in Kazakh means “capital”. In the autumn of 1997, the transfer of central authorities to Astana began. As a result, the number of Kazakhs in Astana began to grow rapidly. By 1999, it grew 2,7 times (from 49,8 to 133,6 thousand), while Russians decreased by 14,8% (from 152,1 to 129,5 thousand).

Administrative-territorial reform of the second half of the 1990-ies. was aimed at combining mainly "Russian" areas with "Kazakh". So, the East Kazakhstan region in 1997 was merged with Semipalatinsk, Karaganda - with Dzhezkazgan, Kokchetav region is divided between North Kazakhstan and Akmola, and Turgai - between Akmola and Kostanay regions. In all of these regions, Russians by the end of the 1990s. accounted for less than half of the population, and their dominance within individual areas was not so obvious.

But the main way to eliminate the ethno-territorial imbalance was the resettlement of ethnic Kazakhs from the CIS and foreign countries to the north and north-east regions of the republic.

According to various estimates outside the republic in 1990-s. lived from 4 to 5 million Kazakhs - more than half the number of the titular ethnic group in Kazakhstan itself. The most numerous were the Kazakh diaspora in China (about 1,3 million), Uzbekistan (870 thousand), Russia (660 thousand) and Mongolia (157 thousand). In addition, ethnic Kazakhs lived in Turkmenistan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Afghanistan, Turkey, Iran, Pakistan and other countries. The most numerous was the Kazakh diaspora in the PRC, which, apparently, was to become the main demographic base for the resettlement of 300 thousand Kazakhs to the territory of Northern Kazakhstan.

In 1992, Kazakhstan adopted the Law on Immigration, which provided Kazakhs who were resettled in the republic in connection with “persecution, oppression, restrictions on rights and freedoms, well-founded fears of being subjected to it,” as well as “a desire to return to historical homeland ”, refugee status, and those who left the territory of Kazakhstan in the course of mass repressions, persecutions, prisoners of war and their descendants - refugee repatriates. In December 1997, a new law “On Migration of the Population” was adopted, according to which the repatriate (oralman) was considered “an indigenous person expelled from the historical homeland ... due to massive political repression, illegal requisition, forced collectivization, and other inhumane actions voluntarily moving to the Republic of Kazakhstan for the purpose of permanent residence, as well as its descendants. ” By law, immigrants had the right to a wide range of benefits: free cross-border travel, travel to a place of residence, transportation of property, assistance in finding a job, advanced training and learning the state language, getting education, medical assistance, pensions and benefits, allocation of land and long-term loans . In practice, however, far from all of them could be obtained.

From 1991 to 2011, thousands of Kazakh families with a total of about 221,3 thousand returned to the territory of Kazakhstan 860. Most of them came from Uzbekistan (60,5%), China (12%), Mongolia (10,4%), Turkmenistan (8%) and Russia (5,3%). At the same time, the majority of oralmans (Kazakh. “Immigrant”) were located in the northern regions. So, from 12,5 thousands of Kazakh families who immigrated to Kazakhstan throughout 1991-1996, 44,7% were located in Karaganda, Pavlodar, Kokchetav and Semipalatinsk regions. According to the quota for 2003, in the North Kazakhstan, Kostanay, Akmola and Karaganda regions it was planned to settle almost half of the 5 thousands of IDP families.

In April 2012, the repatriation of Oralmans was unexpectedly suspended until a special order of the government and has not yet been resumed.

Adaptation of immigrants who found themselves in unaccustomed economic, socio-cultural, and climatic conditions, occurred with great difficulty. Often this provoked their repeated migration to the southern regions and countries of former residence. At the same time, the “quality” composition of oralmans left much to be desired. If the European population leaving Kazakhstan had a high level of education and professional qualifications, many immigrants did not know how to read and write. A significant part of the emigrants were industrial workers and specialists, and the repatriates often refused to work in the industrial sector. Having experienced difficulties with housing, job search, social and language adaptation, the oralmans became a headache for the authorities. In October, 2011, the head of the state holding Samruk-Kazyna, the son-in-law of President N.A. Nazarbayev, Timur Kulibayev, at a meeting in connection with the strike of oil workers in Mangistau, said that “oralmans from Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan are now moving to Zhanaozen in whole villages. In their countries they were, we will speak, on the sidelines. ” At the same time, “the strikers have their own informal leaders, who together came from Karakalpakstan”. Therefore, measures to restrict migration to Zhanaozen, whose social infrastructure cannot cope with the influx of immigrants, are long overdue. In December, 2011 in Zhanaozen, the largest mass riots occurred with 1986, which escalated into clashes between striking oilmen and police and resulted in the death of 15 people.

Nevertheless, the ethnic composition of the population of the northern regions after the collapse of the USSR has changed markedly. By the beginning of 2010, the Russians exceeded the number of Kazakhs only in the North Kazakhstan region, where they accounted for 48,2% and 33,9% of the population, respectively. In addition, Russians were about 40% of residents of Akmola, East Kazakhstan, Karaganda, Kostanay, Pavlodar regions and almost 1 / 4 of Astana residents. The paradox also lies in the fact that earlier the Kazakh authorities themselves expressed concern about the increasing emigration of the Slavic population that could leave Kazakhstan without qualified specialists. According to some information, N. Nazarbayev personally asked V. Putin to reduce the intensity of the implementation of the program to resettle compatriots in the country. Immigration to the northern regions of the Kazakhs from China or the southern regions of Kazakhstan in an amount comparable to the population of the whole region will lead to a violation of the ethno-demographic balance and may provoke another wave of Russian emigration. In addition, the Chinese Kazakhs, many of whom have a good education and fit well into the realities of life in the PRC, have not shown much desire to move to Kazakhstan.

So the news about the resettlement of 300 by thousands of Kazakhs, most likely, is an information stuff intended to check the public reaction.

But even if these plans remain on paper, over time the Russian question in the north of the republic can be solved by itself. The birth rate of the Kazakhs is higher than that of the Russians, who also continue to emigrate to Russia. Under these conditions, the ethno-demographic balance in the northern regions will gradually change in favor of the Kazakhs, and the Russians, as has already happened throughout Kazakhstan, will become an ethnic minority.
Author:
Originator:
http://www.stoletie.ru/zarubejie/kazahi_perejedut_na_sever_629.htm
143 comments
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  1. Canep
    Canep April 8 2014 14: 57
    +12
    I already read something similar on the same site, because my answer is this:
    1. Kazakhs are divided into zhuzes, the eldest - south, the middle - north and the youngest - west, (well, they still say zhuz - orys, but this is not the case now).
    2. Friendship between zhuzes was not special when it was not, and the northerner in the south does not feel comfortable, and vice versa (it’s so ... to put it mildly).
    3. Kazakhs have very strong generic ties within.
    4. In the south, the climate is much milder and you can profitably engage in agriculture, and the proximity to China makes trade very profitable, that is, people have work.
    From all of the above it follows that southerners will go to the north only if it is not possible to live in the south, by any state programs or Komsomol trips, etc. people cannot be lured to the north, with the exception of the capital Astana.
    1. W1950
      W1950 April 8 2014 15: 04
      +2
      An old article. And Kazakhstan needs not to resettle the population, but to make it easier, to reunite with Russia.
      1. predator.3
        predator.3 April 8 2014 15: 54
        +1
        Kazakhstan in three northern regions will strengthen cooperation with China in the agricultural sector, the report said, ... for this large project, about 200 workers are needed. And the total need for people is about 000 people. And in this regard, Kazakhstan can use the excess labor in the south of the country, and China, in turn, can send excess labor from Xinjiang. "


        And what is this collaboration about? What will be grown? and why it is necessary to drive exactly the Uyghurs? In short, some questions, even the Hunghuz want to rent land in Ukraine, it seems the conversation was about 3 million hectares! sad
        1. Kasym
          Kasym April 8 2014 17: 27
          +9
          Dear Colleagues ! You say from what zhuz you are, and then kind - this will give an understanding of where you live on the territory of the Great Steppe. There were no cities. If a Russian says that he is a Novgorodian, then it is clear where the person (or Muscovite) comes from. Many people, not Kazakhs, consider this topic (zhuzes) to be some kind of sacrament (taboo). This is not true . There is currently no such strong division among the Kazakhs. For example, among my relatives (men), almost everyone takes wives from other clans. This has been the practice since ancient times to avoid incest. There is a difference, even in appearance, between southerners and northerners. But this is more due to the climate (in the south there are 300 sunny days a year, in the north, on the contrary). There is also an opinion that there should be 4 zhuz (even better that neither Kazakhs). To prevent the other three from fighting. But this is more of a joke (in which there is some truth). So it's very good that the nat. the composition of Kazakhstan is so rich. This will not allow us to slide into intergeneric squabbles and give us, Kazakhs, to be in good shape.
          Yes, create conditions at least at the North Pole (decent salary, accommodation, conditions) - anyone will eat. Though Kazakh, even African.
          Most of the oralmans are going to move to the RK to their ancestral lands. In Mongolia during the famine of the 30s they moved from the north and west, the southerners to the PRC or further south, the east to Iran and Turkey. And now they are trying to return to their ancestral lands, and not where the Government says. It is enough to create highly paid slaves in the North of the RK. places and people will certainly go there. That is why many people go to Astana and Alma-Ata (in Russia - Moscow, St. Petersburg, etc.)? Because you can find a good job with a decent paycheck. pay and feed their families by sending part of the money. At my entrance, she recently moved, there lives a woman with 3 children from the Kyrgyz Osh (father is Kyrgyz, mother is Tatar). "There is money here, you can do business. There is no money in Osh - what to do there?" Now in the plan of the government to make 2 more megalopolises with 1 mil. people .. These are CHIMKENT and AKTUBINSK. That is, add 2 more cities to Astana and Alma-Ata with conditions as in capitals (there is money). hi drinks
          1. Kasym
            Kasym April 8 2014 19: 44
            +4
            Sorry, I mixed up the east and west of Kazakhstan - about the relocation.
            I would like to add that the name of the genus gives an understanding of your roots.
            Tore - Genghisides, leather - the Arabian branch, Jalaira - the Mongolian branch, etc. .. But this is more interesting to the Kazakhs and historians themselves. hi
      2. dmitrich
        dmitrich April 8 2014 15: 58
        +7
        Quote: W1950
        An old article. And Kazakhstan needs not to resettle the population, but to make it easier, to reunite with Russia.

        let them live.
        1. Aljavad
          Aljavad April 9 2014 00: 51
          +5
          let them live.

          That's right!
          And may everything be fine with them. And more of these. Stable, adequate and friendly. And we will be friends allies.
      3. maks-101
        maks-101 April 8 2014 18: 40
        +3
        An old article. And Kazakhstan needs not to resettle the population, but to make it easier, to reunite with Russia.
        what our years are, the process is going on with Belarus there is a union state and with Kazakhstan there will be one and the currency will be easier for us to share.
    2. Siberian19
      Siberian19 April 8 2014 15: 24
      -7
      I liked it more like that!
      1. de_monSher
        de_monSher April 8 2014 15: 46
        +14
        I liked it more like that!


        However, for your more than 100 years of age, you still think so - if you shine a light bulb in your eye, you may also blink. Well, the fact that you have developed Parkinson is nothing. MozK you once "underfed" your intellect, so he takes revenge on you ...
        1. RusKaz
          RusKaz April 8 2014 17: 25
          +6
          Quote: de_monSher
          However, for your more than 100 years of age, you still think so - if you shine a light bulb in your eye, you may also blink. Well, the fact that you have developed Parkinson is nothing. MozK you once "underfed" your intellect, so he takes revenge on you ...

          ))) tin wrote)) +100500
        2. The comment was deleted.
    3. diver1977
      diver1977 April 8 2014 15: 46
      +3
      The idea itself, in principle, is crazy - relocation. In China, this is possible, but with us, how? They will give me a command to go south - I will send them to hell and that’s all. And then - where will they live? 300 is such a city. Bullshit in general.
      1. aksakal
        aksakal April 8 2014 16: 03
        +12
        Quote: diver1977
        The idea itself, in principle, is crazy - relocation. In China, this is possible, but with us, how? They will give me a command to go south - I will send them to hell and that’s all. And then - where will they live? 300 is such a city. Bullshit in general

        - Why crazy? laughing In Celingrad, already at the stage of rumors about the transfer of the new capital, the easiest part of the Kazakhs from the city of Shymkent, better known as Texans or X-Men, has already rushed here. laughing Create conditions in the very north - and they will be there, they are everywhere where it smells like a gas-shift. These are energetic guys, they do not care what environment they live in, they will adapt to any environment. It will be necessary to live in Lviv - they will live there too laughing Although the majority of Kazakhs dislike Shymkens with yasami. The expression "Shymkent variants", reflecting the peculiarities of the mentality of Shymkent people, has become a common expression.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Ascetic
        Ascetic April 8 2014 21: 38
        +2
        Quote: diver1977
        The idea itself, in principle, is crazy - relocation. In China, this is possible, but with us, how? They will give me a command to go south - I will send them to hell and that’s all. And then - where will they live? 300 is such a city. Bullshit in general.


        very indicative post characterizing the current situation in Kazakhstan.

        IlyaS
        04.04.2014 20:22

        I live in Kazakhstan, I work in Almaty. Well, what can I tell you - you can live quite normally, BUT Nazarbayev is still alive. What will happen after him is a big question ... Of course, everything related to the elevation and promotion of the titular nation to the first roles is being intensely introduced. This can be seen with the naked eye - all the names of government agencies, previously written in Russian and Kazakh - now only in Kazakh. In government agencies, almost 100% of the titular nation. But there is no harassment on a national basis, although problems at the household level are not simple. There is work for qualified specialists, although local, i.e. Kazakh citizens are paid much less than foreigners from Europe and even less than Chinese specialists, whose qualifications leave much to be desired. And local Kazakhs themselves do not like oralmans, especially those who came from far abroad - illiterate, but aggressively inclined on the basis of Islam. There were many peasants with beards in short pants, betraying adherents of Wahhabism and Salafis, which, however, is almost the same. In general, the situation is still stable, but in Ukraine it was also such for the time being ...
    4. danperevera
      danperevera April 8 2014 19: 44
      +1
      As a resident of Northern Kazakhstan, I can say that derusification has always been silent glanders. Not so loud and stupid as in the Baltic states, but always the crowding out of Russians has taken place and is taking place. Public service, law enforcement, nat. companies are almost fully equipped with national personnel, often based on zhuz and generic grounds. A new boss arrives and immediately brings his relatives to warm places. Since the Russians are outside this certain ethnosocial system, by and large they are not allowed to enter state structures. It remains to work only in business, trade and production. Those who do not want to put up with this are leaving for Russia, and there are a lot of such people. Almost all Russian youth study in Russia and remain to live there. So the article as a whole conveys both the situation in the Republic of Kazakhstan and the history of this issue.
      1. blizart
        blizart April 8 2014 20: 39
        +3
        Nobody will undertake to predict the situation on the national question in Kazakhstan, even in the medium term. Is there a process of de-Russification of Kazakhstan? Yes, it does, but given the almost complete loss of interest (other than the economic component) of Russians in the Kazakhs, it is natural. When describing the current state of society in Kazakhstan for nat. I would like to note the following question:
        1 Civilizational friction between oralmans and native Kazakhs is a reality.
        2 Kazakhs of the south and the north are different this reality.
        Reality number three: We have been preparing for the GMMO (Main Inspectorate of the Ministry of Defense) for three months and now we are standing completely overwhelmed by this preparation at the morning divorce-33 Kazakhs, and the company commander informs us (in Russian) that they will finally arrive tomorrow. Chairman of the Commission Major General Medvedev, early. Headquarters Colonel Lukashenko.
        1. Alibekulu
          Alibekulu April 8 2014 23: 19
          +5
          Quote: danperevera
          Public service, law enforcement, nat. companies are almost fully equipped with national personnel
          danpereverastop pouring tears already crying A peasant is already over thirty.
          If you yourself screwed up after listening to the old fool and did not enter the Petropavlovsk VV School, when it was enough just to hand over the documents, who is to blame, "titles" ??! request
          Secondly, if you really wanted to become an officer, you would go to the army. Through the army it is much easier, as you should know, there is an appropriate quota for them.
          Yes, but there is much less competition, there were no "thieves" corny, so they would not get into the army. Yes, and those coming from the army, as a rule, were not burdened with intelligence. So you had every opportunity.
          Thirdly. Since the "evil Kazakhs" did not give you a go, you could simply enter Russian military universities, Kazakhstan is allocated budgetary places where the examination commissions of the RF Armed Forces held reception soldier .
          For example, in the Omsk armored, not far from Peter ...
          RS: I am not a hero and not a fighter, but nevertheless, about you and people like you, it's good that at least one "crybaby" in the Armed Forces of the Republic of Kazakhstan is less ..
          By the way, why did you put it on the "black list" ?!
          Quote: danperevera
          but always the crowding out of Russians has been and is taking place
          As a resident of Northern Kazakhstan, I will ask - did you try not to "push out" ?? wink
          1. foxxi
            foxxi April 9 2014 14: 07
            +3
            In 2000, an ethnic German, a graduate of the Omsk school, remained to serve in the Russian Federation, then the next Chechen company began, the assault on Grozny and he was the tank commander, well, the boy died in the first battle, got a grenade through the hatch ... heaven and earth to him in fluff, only his father said something like that ... no one is driving us from here, he would return to RK - he would be alive ... apparently he had such a fate.
            1. RusKaz
              RusKaz April 9 2014 16: 46
              +4
              Quote: foxxi
              In 2000, an ethnic German, a graduate of the Omsk school, remained to serve in the Russian Federation, then the next Chechen company began, the assault on Grozny and he was the tank commander, well, the boy died in the first battle, got a grenade through the hatch ... heaven and earth to him in fluff, only his father said something like that ... no one is driving us from here, he would return to RK - he would be alive ... apparently he had such a fate.

              I remember one ancient parable that I read for a long time. I’ll tell you in my own words, so sorry for clumsiness if Che.
              Karoche in a city besieged by enemies, one person saw Azrael (an angel is the messenger of death. Whoever sees him will die soon). Well, it’s clear how he will die, yes, in a besieged city. And this man decided to avoid death. He fled to the deserted desert, but died there of thirst ((
              Whoever is destined to die will not escape this. So father is wrong, I think.
              Land in rest to the kid ((
      2. Rinat 1
        Rinat 1 April 8 2014 20: 58
        +5
        These are like you provocateurs and sow ethnic hatred. You look who the top managers of the national company are English, American, Pole. it’s not just Russian, there are no Kazakhs. And as for the civil service there is also no sugar, the average salary is at the level of 80 thousand tenge (16 thousand rubles), and many specialists try to work in the private sector. In Russia, too, now St. Petersburg taxis.
      3. Maza
        Maza April 10 2014 12: 27
        0
        Kazakhs chop off the branch on which they sit, well, they will squeeze out Russians and other nationalities. What's next! And, then it will be like this (one of the options, "Chinese comrades will come and teach the Kazakhs to live in the steppe in a new way. And everything will be fair and according to the law. They completely forgot the story of who pulled them out of poverty and saved them from the genocide of the Dzungars. Time will set apart. everything is back to normal. We are neighbors, and who knows, how many times will have to turn to each other. Do not chop men, do not chop hot.
        1. Beck
          Beck April 10 2014 14: 46
          +1
          Quote: Maza
          Kazakhs chop the branch on which they sit, well, they will squeeze out Russians and other nationalities.


          What are you yelling for nothing. First read the comments of people, then you will find out that people have already answered your heart-rending questions. And for you personally, no one will be repeated.
      4. The comment was deleted.
    5. Alibekulu
      Alibekulu April 8 2014 20: 41
      +4
      Quote: Canep
      Kazakhs are divided into zhuzes, the elder is south, the middle is north and the younger is west
      In the ranking of zhuzes, one can trace the process of expansion of the Kazakh Khanate. Originating in the south, then after Yermak's campaign, most of the Siberian Khanate departed, then the Nogailly "joined". Therefore, both Senior, Middle and Junior.
      If somewhere is wrong, correct .. hi And, in general, it should have been 6 probably ?! - "Alty Alash"
      Quote: Canep
      people do not lure north
      Well, now it seems like the "Texan Spring" is in full swing .. "Hedgehogs" have multiplied .. laughing
      And, if there is quiet discontent in the north, then in the west, it has more open forms - "they keep an all-round defense" .. I emphasize that the friction is not mental .. It's just that southerners are more actively making their way, which naturally causes discontent among the locals ..
      Quote: igorra
      Kazakhs, such as the Bashkirs, not from a good life, decided to part with independence.
      Yeah .. But why did the Russians part with independence and move to Ulyg Ulys / or, to say the Golden Horde ??!
      1. already a Muscovite
        already a Muscovite 30 September 2017 20: 21
        +3
        Well, let’s tell us about the bloody Russian-Kazakh massacres ... Otherwise, Petka and Katka have distorted the story for us here ...
  2. FunkschNNX
    FunkschNNX April 8 2014 14: 58
    +18
    Follow other news from the OBS agency (one grandmother said)
  3. I read the news
    I read the news April 8 2014 15: 01
    +1
    Educated Russians will leave, uneducated Kazakhs will remain.
    Who is better off?
    1. Canep
      Canep April 8 2014 15: 15
      +10
      Quote: I readNews
      Educated Russians will leave, uneducated Kazakhs will remain.

      I would not say that about Kazakhs in our design department, Russians and Kazakhs 50/50. Recently, a Kazakh engineer is not something out of the ordinary.
      1. ehomenkov
        ehomenkov April 8 2014 18: 03
        +1
        Don’t lie - you’ve survived the Russians long ago ... recently, a Kazakh engineer just does his hand at claudia in all forums. If where the Russians stayed - only there - where they don’t allow folders under your armpits - you have to plow the kyle or sledgehammer.
        1. Rinat 1
          Rinat 1 April 8 2014 18: 17
          +8
          Well, to see you, too, was not sweet in Russia, just sit under the flag of mattress covers. People like you kindle a fire between our peoples.
          1. Aljavad
            Aljavad April 9 2014 01: 03
            +3
            Wildly sorry! On the machine poked you minus ...
            Regarding ehomenkov completely agree!
        2. Canep
          Canep April 8 2014 18: 53
          +10
          Quote: ehomenkov
          Don’t lie - you have long survived the Russians ...
          Actually, I myself am Russian, my parents are from the Ivanovo region, and I was born in Pavlodar.
          I did not understand that such a new way of trolling, or in the boarding school for the mentally retarded, American sponsors connected the Internet.
          1. Vicius
            Vicius April 9 2014 14: 44
            +3
            I do not know exactly how or what, but my relatives and relatives have long left Kazakhstan. I asked. They say they don’t drive them out, they don’t even squeeze them out, but they create such conditions, you will leave yourself. There is no bilingualism, everywhere you need to know Kazakh, and now also in Latin. The technical documentation is translated, at the very least, into some mixture of languages ​​and signs, it turns out - you won’t understand, you will understand. It’s hard to say what will happen next, we must live now. And the Kazakhs, which are more educated, go to Russia. There are no prospects for a specialist in Kazakhstan, everyone says that.
        3. Lelek
          Lelek April 8 2014 19: 33
          +4
          IN AND. Lenin: "And you, my friend, are a provocateur."
          Petruha: "Gulchatay, show your face ...". fool
    2. RUSS
      RUSS April 8 2014 15: 27
      +2
      Quote: I readNews
      Educated Russians will leave, uneducated Kazakhs will remain.
      Who is better off?


      It's better? It will be better for the authorities of Kazakhstan, since it is easier to manage the illiterate population.
    3. Dmitry Toderes
      Dmitry Toderes April 8 2014 15: 34
      +2
      It’s better for Kazakhs - they want to live in the Stone Age - well, let them live in the Stone Age.
      1. Canep
        Canep April 8 2014 17: 38
        +9
        In Ekibas, over the past 10-12 years, 3 new factories have opened and are operating: the turnout switch factory where I work, the car-building plant, and the electric machine repair plant (for locomotives and excavators). This is a city with a population of 138000 people in which there are 2 large power plants, several coal mines and a plant for the repair of mining transportation equipment. In Pavlodar, 2 large plants were opened, Electrolysis and Pipe-rolling, did not count small and medium ones. Kazakhstan is confidently heading towards industrialization. The automobile industry has been created, the nuclear and aviation industries are being created. And here you are talking about the Stone Age. High speed internet is available to almost everyone. Recently I bought a cell phone, turned on the data transfer and almost lost my eye, it works at a speed of 20 Mbps (HSPA +) and it’s not in Astana but in Ekibas, in Astana 4G is used by everyone who has it.
        1. ehomenkov
          ehomenkov April 8 2014 18: 09
          +2
          are you pushing political literacy, sapper? we know everything - we live with you ourselves ... am
          1. Canep
            Canep April 8 2014 18: 27
            +10
            With whom you live it is visible on a flag. If you don’t know, he’s American.
            1. Lelek
              Lelek April 8 2014 19: 35
              +5
              Correctly. BAAAA-BACH him. drinks
          2. romb
            romb April 8 2014 18: 45
            +7
            So, it means you live with us. Why don’t you follow our local orders? You must have forgotten that we all foreigners - Russians, Germans, Koreans and others, are required by law to indicate in their nickname an identification digital identifier - on which there is a code of the authority that issued a certificate to a non-titular subcity permitting the use of various modern means of communication. Where is he, why not indicated? Who are you, more precisely, from what ghetto are you writing from? Do you have a twenty-hour shift already over?
            1. Canep
              Canep April 8 2014 18: 59
              +6
              Quote: romb
              So, it means you live with us. Why don’t you follow our local orders? You must have forgotten that we all foreigners - Russians, Germans, Koreans and others, are required by law to indicate in their nickname an identification digital identifier - on which there is a code of the authority that issued a certificate to a non-titular subcity permitting the use of various modern means of communication. Where is he, why not indicated? Who are you, more precisely, from what ghetto are you writing from? Do you have a twenty-hour shift already over?

              wassat wassat wassat
              Similarly, in a boarding school for the mentally retarded, American sponsors connected the Internet.
              wassat wassat wassat
              Is it in America that foreigners should indicate something there ?, in which case you yourself why without a license plate. In general, the joke is not bad.
              1. romb
                romb April 8 2014 19: 05
                +5
                A person, probably, constantly reads comments on the Law. That brain and bombed wassat
        2. Guard
          Guard April 8 2014 21: 37
          +5
          Quote: Canep
          In Ekibas, over the past 10-12 years, 3 new plants have opened and are operating:

          About seven years ago I came to Ekibas for the first time. Before that, Astana acquaintances scared: "Every day people are killed on the streets there. The concept is that if you were not in prison, it means not a man. There are only gopniks and drug addicts around. For 5 tenge they can kill ..."
          I arrived. Around normally dressed people, all busy with something, the first waiter was amazed - I did not even meet such courtesy and cooking knowledge in super-expensive restaurants. The truth was embarrassing that the hands in the tattoos were laughing But he finally finished me off when he asked what I wanted for a side dish, and while I was gathering my thoughts, he suggested some option with the words: "Nutritionists recommend ..."
          The impressions of the residents of the city were the most wonderful. And when I asked the taxi driver, where are all the gopniks, murderers and drug addicts, he answered me: "Anything happened. Now there is no such thing." I asked: "Why has everything changed"? Answer: "There is no time to deal with garbage. In the morning everyone needs to go to work."
          Z.Y. Only two things I didn’t like in Ekibas - asphalt, which was completely killed, and boarded up elevators in high-rise buildings (although it seems that they had already been repaired).
          1. Canep
            Canep April 9 2014 06: 56
            +4
            Quote: Guard
            in Ekibas - completely killed asphalt
            The asphalt killed on the other way on the highway from the border of the region to Astana (to the ring), it seems that Astana is the capital of the banana republic. And in Ekibas, asphalt is now no worse than in the capital. In any case, I caught pits in Astana. And about crime in the 90s, Ekibas was the kiminal capital of Kazakhstan, after 7 pm it was dangerous to go outside, now it’s much calmer.
      2. Aljavad
        Aljavad April 9 2014 01: 05
        +1
        in the stone age

        they’ve been there for thousands of thousands of years bully
        Learn History. And not according to Fomenko hi
    4. diver1977
      diver1977 April 8 2014 16: 03
      +18
      Why such a stereotype about the lack of education of the Kazakhs? Have you been with us? A strange man. Since the 19th century you know a lot has changed.
      By the way, not so long ago, one lecturer came to us from Ukraine, held a seminar on energy efficiency. Cool man, talked a lot about himself and in general. He used to work in aircraft construction, now everyone says it has collapsed, I had to relearn.
      So he really liked us. He speaks as if he had visited the Union: people are calm, not embittered, are engaged in business, work. There is no doom. Stability is felt, established life. I write from his words, I haven’t been to Ukraine.
      And what I see on YouTube, the news is complete mess. I think so - first the economy, then politics. Now is the time to work and earn. And swinging the rights with naked * opa is foolishness. On the example of Ukraine, Kyrgyzstan, Georgia, this can be seen very well. No one began to live better from revolutions. And we will slowly build ourselves a beautiful country to the envy of our enemies and to the delight of our friends :)
      And about education - if our universities provide education, to put it mildly, not really - that is, the whole world. Many study abroad who have the opportunity. Although my younger brother graduated from the Karaganda Polytechnic, now he works on cisco, earns great money, even calls abroad.
      I myself am a first teacher of Russian language and literature, a second Germanist (Romano-Germanic philology), a third lawyer. I don’t complain about the lack of education, I studied diligently everywhere. So in vain you are so.
      1. Alibekulu
        Alibekulu April 8 2014 17: 24
        +6
        Quote: diver1977
        And about education - if our universities provide education, to put it mildly, not very
        The funny thing is that now Russian universities have a sedimentation tank for graduates of Kazakhstani schools laughing Those who can’t reach the minimum threshold for admission to universities in Kazakhstan. Those. those who do not have the mind to dial even this minimum .. belay (Although there are different situations ..) In recent years, in Kostanay, the largest recruitment in the branch of CSU. They even turned to the head university with a request to increase the set - there are restrictions for branches ..
        1. already a Muscovite
          already a Muscovite 30 September 2017 20: 46
          0
          Quote: Alibekulu
          The funny thing is that now Russian universities sedimentation tank


          But the Association of Higher Education in Kazakhstan, according to which of the 131 thousand graduates of local schools, about 40 thousand left this year (2017) to enter Russian universities. What is it 40 thousand
          Quote: Alibekulu
          those who do not have the mind to dial even this minimum ..

          Honestly, it's just your patriotic fantasies ...
      2. Aljavad
        Aljavad April 9 2014 01: 12
        +1
        Where does this stereotype come from?

        And he left the forest wassat
      3. foxxi
        foxxi April 9 2014 14: 10
        +6
        and what did you want ... as they say a language without bones and in general ... shallow Emelya - your week ...
    5. aksakal
      aksakal April 8 2014 16: 05
      +11
      Quote: I readNews
      Educated Russians will leave, uneducated Kazakhs will remain. Who benefits from this?

      - I don’t know, I’m probably selling my golden teeth and will somehow live. Or I’ll try to learn to read and write, so that you can somehow answer your post, otherwise I don’t even know how to write laughing
    6. The comment was deleted.
    7. asadov
      asadov April 8 2014 17: 26
      +2
      To the Chinese. They will be glad to new lands.
    8. Bayonet
      Bayonet April 8 2014 18: 36
      +6
      Quote: I readNews
      uneducated Kazakhs

      Great-power chauvinism on the face!
    9. Lelek
      Lelek April 8 2014 19: 29
      +5
      Educated Russians will gladly be replaced by educated Chinese. good
      1. Guard
        Guard April 8 2014 23: 47
        +6
        Quote: Lelek
        Educated Russians will gladly be replaced by educated Chinese. good

        The uneducated "golden-handed" Russians who have left will be replaced by normal educated Kazakh Russians, of whom the country is proud. We need the best Kazakhs, Russians, Uzbeks, Germans, Ukrainians, Koreans, Caucasians, Dungans. Trilingual, with a good level of education, patriotic, courageous, initiative, hard-working, tolerant, strong.
        And all sorts of temporary workers, chauvinists, tribalists - "suitcase, station, _____".
  4. fregina1
    fregina1 April 8 2014 15: 05
    +1
    Nothing depends on the move of the Kazakhs! After Nazarbayev's "departure" Kazakhstan will fall into 4 parts! I think ours understand this perfectly well and are working out options! Nursultan is wise, but ... not eternal!
    1. RUSS
      RUSS April 8 2014 15: 30
      +3
      Quote: fregina1
      Nursultan is wise, but ... not eternal!

      I think after Nazarbayev, Kazakhstan will be different.
      1. mamont5
        mamont5 April 8 2014 15: 34
        +3
        Quote: RUSS
        I think after Nazarbayev, Kazakhstan will be different.

        Yes, that's for sure. He needs to think about the heir. Well, or we think about his heir.
        1. Kasym
          Kasym April 8 2014 17: 36
          +4
          NAS painted economic programs until 2050. fellow . So there is something for Kazakhstan people to do. There are decent ones that will replace him. Do not worry . drinks
          1. Lelek
            Lelek April 8 2014 19: 38
            +4
            Well, thank God. And I...
    2. eprst
      eprst April 8 2014 18: 19
      +12
      I myself live in northern Kazakhstan. Recently, my wife went to pay for utility services. Stands in line and hears the conversation from behind: "If only Russia took us as Crimea, otherwise after the change of power (leaving the National Academy of Sciences) southerners will come and we will be completely crushed" .. The spouse turns around in complete confidence to see the Russians ... and sees women talking -Kazashki .. These are the moods, we are Russian by blood and it is not our fault that our ancestors moved for a better life and lay here in the ground .. and for us she is dear!
      1. Semurg
        Semurg April 8 2014 22: 11
        +1
        Quote: eprst
        I myself live in northern Kazakhstan. Recently, my wife went to pay for utility services. Stands in line and hears the conversation from behind: "If only Russia took us as Crimea, otherwise after the change of power (leaving the National Academy of Sciences) southerners will come and we will be completely crushed" .. The spouse turns around in complete confidence to see the Russians ... and sees women talking -Kazashki .. These are the moods, we are Russian by blood and it is not our fault that our ancestors moved for a better life and lay here in the ground .. and for us she is dear!

        Is it interesting NAS northerner or what?
        1. foxxi
          foxxi April 9 2014 14: 11
          +3
          No ... he's the Elder Zhuz of the Shaprashta family ...
      2. The comment was deleted.
  5. Zymran
    Zymran April 8 2014 15: 05
    +8
    The most noticeable, of course, was the transfer of the capital. Its official reasons were the remoteness of Almaty from the geographical center of the republic, the poor environmental situation, the increased seismic hazard, the difficulty of construction work, as well as the need to create a second center of economic growth. In reality, the main reasons were the desire to change the ethnic composition of the population in favor of the Kazakhs


    Yes, that’s the truth.
  6. Vicius
    Vicius April 8 2014 15: 09
    -3
    The Kazakhs will eventually move to the South ... good
    1. Canep
      Canep April 8 2014 18: 36
      +4
      It does not seem to reach the people, there will be no great migration of Kazakhs, all the more so the northerners will not go south.
  7. waisson
    waisson April 8 2014 15: 11
    +2
    here the map is really old but there is something to think about for Kazakh brothers
    1. waisson
      waisson April 8 2014 15: 12
      +1
      and with what to stay
  8. Fiero
    Fiero April 8 2014 15: 12
    0
    Has derusification intensified?
  9. Kyrgyz
    Kyrgyz April 8 2014 15: 13
    +8
    And in this regard, Kazakhstan can use excess labor in the south of the country, and China, in turn, can send excess labor from Xinjiang
    A funny tactic is to strengthen the ethnic composition of the north from a hypothetical threat from the Russians (of which there are few in the Urals) due to an almost guaranteed loss in favor of China, which is clearly overpopulated, is this not the plan Ukrainian strategists suggested? laughing
    People should be treated normally then, and they will not have to be afraid, not every Russian in northern Kazakhstan would like to be in Russia now, taxes are simpler there, and many troubled affairs are possible that they have already forgotten about for a long time, and there is really no territorial border with Russia.
  10. Giant thought
    Giant thought April 8 2014 15: 21
    0
    Another manilovism.
  11. igorra
    igorra April 8 2014 15: 22
    +1
    Explain to me Kazakhs, Georgians and others like them, why are you kind of softer to say, ungrateful? When Kazakhs - Uighurs were slaughtered, Georgians - Turks, your ancestors came running under the wing of Russia, and their descendants now call us invaders. Are there above mentioned representatives of glorious peoples on the forum? Maybe answer? You are not ashamed of the graves of the ancestors who bequeathed to you - your descendants to be forever with Russia and in trouble and joy. Our fathers and grandfathers only recently defended such a battle, and you have modern descendants in my opinion, the bucks all outweighed the graves and honor.
    1. Zymran
      Zymran April 8 2014 15: 35
      +7
      Quote: igorra
      When Kazakhs - Uighurs cut


      laughing laughing laughing

      When? Kazakhs supported all anti-Chinese stocks of Uyghurs in Xinjiang dating back to the 19th century. and ending in the middle of the past.
      1. igorra
        igorra April 8 2014 16: 04
        +1
        Kazakhs, like the Bashkirs, not because of a good life, decided to part with independence. Learn a little history and not from your modern textbooks, take at least the old Soviet ones. Not anything personal, just a statement of historical facts, look at the great and terrible ukrov, to which they were brought by not knowing history and being separated from their roots. Nature does not tolerate emptiness, "exceptional" grant-eaters will come to you and it turns out that in addition to the dill, there were Kazakhopitheks.
      2. Pagan
        Pagan April 8 2014 16: 13
        +1
        Well, I hope you won’t deny the problems with the Dzungars, and Russia's help in solving this problem?
        1. Beck
          Beck April 8 2014 16: 40
          +10
          Quote: Pagan
          Well, I hope you won’t deny the problems with the Dzungars, and Russia's help in solving this problem?


          With a tongue, you are illiterate to grind.

          In the centennial war with the jungars, Russia Kazakhstan didn't help. I didn’t interfere at all. At a private level, Siberian Russian merchants intervened who sold a firearm to the Dzungars.

          China helped, without even thinking about Help. So like China did.

          By the middle of the 19 century, all the nomadic peoples adjacent to China were in vassal dependence on Beijing. Only the jungars were independent. One of the Chinese ministers reminded the emperor that in the 13 century, China looked down upon the nomads and paid. Like, you need to pay attention to the independent Dzungars, who refuse all offers of vassality. The emperor thought and made a decision.

          In 1854, a huge army was formed from the nomads vassal to China, according to some reports about a million people, but let it be at least five hundred thousandth. This army completely swept the Dzungaria and almost completely destroyed the Dzungars. Only one ulus with battles made its way to Kalmykia.

          And what does Russia have to do with it?
          1. Zymran
            Zymran April 8 2014 16: 58
            +3
            Quote: Beck
            By the middle of the 19 century, all the nomadic peoples adjacent to China were in vassal dependence on Beijing. Only the jungars were independent. One of the Chinese ministers reminded the emperor that in the 13 century, China looked down upon the nomads and paid. Like, you need to pay attention to the independent Dzungars, who refuse all offers of vassality. The emperor thought and made a decision.

            In 1854, a huge army was formed from the nomads vassal to China, according to some reports about a million people, but let it be at least five hundred thousandth. This army completely swept the Dzungaria and almost completely destroyed the Dzungars. Only one ulus with battles made its way to Kalmykia.


            In the 1756 of the Chinese, there were 48 of thousands in two armies, or rather not the Chinese, but the Mongols and Manchu.

            Russia limited itself to diplomatic measures, approximately the same as the West is now comfortable with regard to the Russian Federation.

            The fact was that the Dzungar Khanate played a convenient buffer role between RI and China, and also because the Russians simply did not have significant military forces in the region.
            1. Beck
              Beck April 8 2014 17: 12
              +2
              Quote: Zymran
              In 1756 was


              Yes, the error came out not in 1800, but 1700.

              And the rest is details. The main thing is that the Dzungar Khanate destroyed China.

              The number of Chinese troops is different. From a million to your 48 thousand. But, I think 48 thousand dzungars, under the root, would not be destroyed.
          2. Pagan
            Pagan April 8 2014 20: 52
            +3
            And the construction of these fortresses in particular - Semipalatinsk (1718), Ust-Kamenogorsk (1720) is not help? In 1741, with the next invasion of the Dzungars, the Senate of the Russian Empire sent a mission of Karl Miller, 1742. And the fact that Ablai Khan was captured by the Dzungars and was released through the mediation of the Orenburg governor I.I.Neplyuev is this also a trifle? Khan Tauke asked Russia in the person of Peter the Great for a protectorate (read protection) back in 1717. And what does the 19th century have to do with it? Rossii.Nu and, as always, help for you is a five-hundred thousandth army (no less) that "swept" Dzungaria and solved the problem for you.
            1. Guard
              Guard April 8 2014 23: 01
              +4
              Quote: Pagan
              In 1741, during the next invasion of the Dzungars, the Senate of the Russian Empire sent the mission of Karl Miller, 1742. And the fact that Khan Ablai was captured by the Dzungars and was released through the mediation of the Orenburg governor I. I. Neplyuev is also a trifle?

              Do not be smart.
              1) Karl Miller did not even get an appointment with the Dzungar ruler. Galdan-Tseren dismissed him like a midge. The official Dzungarian excuse is "in connection with the smallpox epidemic". So Miller, with all his desire, could not comb the Dzungars about the Kazakhs, politics and the weather.
              2) How did Neplyuev show "mediation" ??? Did he write a letter to the Dzungars or maybe he sent ambassadors to Galdan?

              As for the construction of Russian fortresses on Kazakh lands, they were originally built to protect the newly acquired Russian lands from possible attacks by the Kazakhs. And you can also remember the rogue Matvey Gagarin - the first Siberian governor, who in 1713 convinced Peter the Great to build a defense line ("Irtysh line") of caravan routes, on which he wildly welded, becoming the richest man in the Russian Empire. Within the framework of this project, the fortresses you mentioned appeared - Semipalatinsk and Ust-Kamenogorsk. The same Gagarin also advised Peter to send military missions further inland to the east in search of "Yarkand gold".

              As for Tauke, then again you are past the checkout. He really asked for help from Peter the Great, but Peter ignored his requests and simply seized "disputed territories" in Siberia and eastern Kazakhstan, because of which, in fact, the Kazakhs fought with the Dzungars. While the steppe dwellers were wetting each other, the tsar took away the bloody and depopulated lands, building Russian fortresses on them, which turned into today's Siberian cities. Peter the Great did not bring any benefit to the Kazakhs, but only pursued a policy of ousting the Kazakhs from the Urals and Siberia.

              And, by the way, about Neplyuev. The Orenburg governor was so "worried" about the Kazakhs that he wrote letters to the Kalmyk ruler Donduk with a request to send troops for the war with the Kazakhs, and cleverly quarreled the Kazakhs with the Bashkirs, pushing their heads together, tk. both Kazakhs and Bashkirs were "annoying elements" for Neplyuev, who did not want to submissively obey the Russian administration.
              1. already a Muscovite
                already a Muscovite 30 September 2017 21: 07
                +3
                Quote: Guard
                crowding out Kazakhs from the Urals and Siberia.

                We have already begun to get used to it somehow, that everything that was on horseback, somewhere else, was originally Kazakh lands ...
          3. already a Muscovite
            already a Muscovite 30 September 2017 21: 00
            +2
            again the Russians are to blame ...
            Quote: Beck
            At a private level, Siberian Russian merchants intervened who sold a firearm to the Dzungars.

            But what about the world famous Battle of Orbulak ?? In the year 1643. In which the Kazakhs for the first time, massively used firearms ??
        2. Guard
          Guard April 8 2014 21: 44
          +7
          Quote: Pagan
          Well, I hope you won’t deny the problems with the Dzungars, and Russia's help in solving this problem?

          Four times, Russia saved the Kazakhs from extermination (according to some pseudo-experts on Kazakh history):
          For the first time - during the great Russian-Dzungarian war. The second time - during the landmark Russian-Chinese war. The third time - during the glorious Russian-Uyghur war. And for the fourth time - during the Russian-Martian war near Karaganda.
          1. already a Muscovite
            already a Muscovite 30 September 2017 21: 13
            +2
            Well, tell us about the glorious victories of the Kazakhs, in the Kazakh-Zhdungar, Kazakh-Chinese, Kazakh-Uyghur wars. Well, about the glorious battle of the Kazakhs with the Martians near Karaganda, too, tell. Do not be shy...
    2. Andrey KZ
      Andrey KZ April 8 2014 15: 41
      +11
      Quote: igorra
      Explain to me Kazakhs, Georgians and others like them

      Well, what for put the Kazakhs on a par with the Georgians? I remind you that Kazakhstan is a consistent and faithful ally of Russia. According to the article, something I strongly doubt that there will be many southerners who want to move north. Is that to Astana.
    3. diver1977
      diver1977 April 8 2014 15: 42
      +16
      Why ungrateful? Do not confuse people and power. Yes, and the authorities seem to be with Russia, they entered the Customs Union. I will not speak for everyone, but I will say for myself - I personally am not inclined to underestimate the contribution of the Russian and Soviet people to the development of my homeland. It is priceless. It’s even stupid to talk about it and argue, it’s an axiom — we wouldn’t be stupid now as an ethnic group without Russia, we would be cut out. But it is not entirely true to consider who owes what to whom. We must stay shoulder to shoulder and work and fight together, like our grandfathers. It is anyway more profitable and will be the result. Purely my opinion.
    4. Sma11
      Sma11 April 8 2014 16: 08
      +6
      Georgians - Turks

      Small clarification. Georgians were slaughtered - Iranians (Persians), and Turks slaughtered Armenians.
      1. Aljavad
        Aljavad April 9 2014 01: 35
        +3
        Georgians were slaughtered - Iranians (Persians), and Turks slaughtered Armenians.

        Both Georgia and Armenia were "disputed territories" near the borders of Iran and Turkey. They were alternately volted by both of them. And as if they were of the Gentiles, they were cut. When "I don't want" turned into "I can't" they called the Russians. Still, co-religionists. In any case, to lose sovereignty, so at least to avoid religious oppression ...
        The situation with the Kazakhs, of course, was different.
    5. Rinat 1
      Rinat 1 April 8 2014 16: 09
      +15
      This is where you read that the Uighurs slaughtered the Kazakhs? stop Of course, one should not underestimate what the USSR did for Kazakhstan. I myself live in Kapshagai near Almaty, and I will tell you there is no oppression by the Kazakhs against the Russian population. Yes, everyday nationalism is sometimes found, but this is not universal. For example, I have a lot of friends both among Russians and among other nations. But lately there are a lot of articles in the VO for the disagreement of two fraternal peoples. I think these articles do not need to be paid attention.
      1. Kasym
        Kasym April 8 2014 17: 45
        +9
        Rinat +, colleagues from Russia, not knowing our reality and history, to put it mildly, froze nonsense. If they are so interested, let us ask around before writing such comments. hi
        I remember how Kazakhs in 1986 were accused of Nazism and extremism after the events of December. But 23 years of independence have already passed. And now it became clear who is who! Who dragged the USSR, and who was a parasite. Who put his nation above others.
        1. already a Muscovite
          already a Muscovite 30 September 2017 21: 17
          0
          And who was the parasite ??
          ... From 1955 to 1985, 43 cities were built on the expanses of Soviet Kazakhstan, including such industrial centers as Rudny, Ekibastuz, Shevchenko (now Aktau), Arkalyk, Stepnogorsk, Kentau, Temirtau and Zhanatas. In 1965, Kazakhstan produced 10,6% of high-voltage equipment, 6,5% of rolling equipment, 10% of concentrating equipment for their total production in the country.
          In the period from 1981 to 1986, more than 400 enterprises were built in Kazakhstan. Mechanical engineering and metalworking were major industries of the republic. Machine-building plants worked in the cities of Alma-Ata, Ust-Kamenogorsk, Karaganda, Uralsk, Petropavlovsk and Pavlodar. The products of the Almaty Heavy Engineering Plant were supplied to almost 50 countries of the world, including Western Europe and Japan. The largest enterprise in Petropavlovsk - the Petropavlovsk Heavy Engineering Plant (PZTM) - produced such high-tech products as mobile systems with medium-range ballistic missiles (SS-20, SS-21, SS-23). ​​"
          Well, brag about what you yourself did ??
      2. Canep
        Canep April 8 2014 18: 11
        +8
        Quote: Rinat 1
        . Yes, everyday nationalism is sometimes found, but this is not universal.
        Everyday nationalism is everywhere, both in Russia and in Kazakhstan. In Russia there is still such a phenomenon as intolerance towards Muscovites. Muscovites contemptuously call Russia Zamkadye, and Russians respond to Muscovites with the same coin. And note all this among the Russians. About Caucasians, I will generally keep quiet here, not even everyday nationalism, but national intolerance. We have nothing like this in Kazakhstan. I'm almost sure if a Russian gets into some kind of trouble in the aul of southern Kazakhstan, where only Kazakhs live, for example, the car breaks down (just not Kruzak) or some medicine is needed, then he will receive help and no one will tell him - "suitcase, railway station, Russia ".
        PS I’ve been to Kapchagai, training camps at the Ili landfill, the city is new and beautiful, at least it was like that in the 90s, but I don’t think it got worse.
        1. Rinat 1
          Rinat 1 April 8 2014 18: 30
          +4
          The city is still beautiful. At night, handsome. Come to stay, we will meet on the first level. Soon swimming season!
          1. Canep
            Canep April 8 2014 18: 47
            +3
            If it works out this summer, you need to go to Almaty, chat with your son-in-law (sister's husband), and then to Sary-Ozek, show Prenavchuk mother-in-law (wife died in 2011). From Almaty to Sary-Ozek through Kapchagay go. But this is if the children let go.
        2. Kasym
          Kasym April 8 2014 19: 59
          +3
          Minesweeper, Kapchagay - the gaming capital of the south. So take the grandmas more. laughing drinks Friends' wives once asked to "save" their husbands from there after 3 days of "disappearance".
          By the way, the road from this year to Alma-Ata - Kapchagai - Taldy-Kurgan - Ust-Kamenogorsk will begin cap. to repair. wink
          1. Rinat 1
            Rinat 1 April 8 2014 20: 28
            +2
            Already do. But now the condition of the roads is like after a carpet bombing. Horror and only.
        3. already a Muscovite
          already a Muscovite 30 September 2017 21: 25
          +1
          Quote: Canep
          In Russia, there is still such a thing as intolerance towards the Muscovites. Muscovites contemptuously call Russia Zamkadye, and Russians respond to Muscovites with the same coin.

          laughing What the heresy ?? Muscovites in Moscow already in the afternoon with fire can not be found. All visitors. In Moscow and the region the population will be more than in all of Kazakhstan. Zamkadye is not a contemptuous name, it's just a joke from the Comedy Club.
    6. Canep
      Canep April 8 2014 17: 56
      +4
      Quote: igorra
      When the Kazakhs-Uyghurs were slaughtered,

      wassat wassat wassat Then someone wrote about educated Russian and uneducated Kazakhs. At your post, Russian education is visible, do not disgrace us Russians. Aren't you ashamed of your ignorance?
      Quote: igorra
      You are not ashamed of the graves of the ancestors who bequeathed to you - your descendants to be forever with Russia and in trouble and joy.
      What is Kazakhstan going away from Russia somewhere? Integration is outpacing.
      Quote: igorra
      Our fathers and grandfathers only recently fought such a battle
      In Kazakhstan, not only not a single monument was destroyed, but also new ones, mainly to the Afghan wars, were erected.
      Quote: igorra
      and you have modern descendants in my opinion, the bucks all outweighed the graves and honor.
      Type in Russia people are the most disinterested.
      1. Guard
        Guard April 8 2014 23: 55
        +6
        Quote: Canep
        Integration is outpacing.

        Now, as part of my work, I take part in the creation of general technical regulations of the Customs Union. If it seems to someone that we do not have integration processes, then it really just seems to him. In fact, the work done at all levels is gigantic, and the merging of the CU states is ongoing.
    7. foxxi
      foxxi April 9 2014 14: 13
      +3
      The Uighurs of the Kazakhs were not slaughtered ... those who tried to be called Kalmyks ... literally the remains ... Dzungars.
  12. Sterlya
    Sterlya April 8 2014 15: 29
    +2
    I don’t want to think about what will happen when Nazarbayev and Lukashenka “leave”. In principle, these countries rest on the personal authority and abilities of their leaders. And what about the continuity of power? And the "democrats" will not stand aside at this time
    1. Guard
      Guard April 8 2014 23: 10
      +3
      Quote: Sterlya
      I don’t want to think about what will happen when Nazarbayev and Lukashenka “leave”. In principle, these countries rest on the personal authority and abilities of their leaders. And what about the continuity of power? And the "democrats" will not stand aside at this time

      And I don’t worry. I do not see any preconditions that the Kazakhs will choose the next president dumber Nazarbayev. Before that, all of our first Kazakh leaders were clever - Kunaev, Shayakhmetov. And most of the khans were far from fools, since from the 15th century they managed to put together a nation and secure a territory that was not large in size.
  13. mackonya
    mackonya April 8 2014 15: 33
    +2
    Well, it's not even funny, honestly.
  14. Gur
    Gur April 8 2014 15: 37
    .
    There are a lot of people in my circle of contacts who came from Kazakhstan to Russia, which means that they are not very kind to them, to put it mildly, but there are also economic reasons, most likely a combination of reasons, but one thing is clear that this Russophobic mood in the post-Soviet space already bothers
    1. diver1977
      diver1977 April 8 2014 16: 12
      +14
      OMG ... What Russophobia? Experts hesitated already. To take you to the carriage and bring you here. I will mercilessly feed with a beshbarmak, try to drown in whiskey and beer, strangle a chechel with a pigtail))))
      1. strenadk
        strenadk April 8 2014 18: 18
        +5
        WELL DONE!!! information about Kazakhstan kitchen in Russia, is it? My wife’s sister lives in Krasnoyarsk, she’s so afraid to go and says that we have women in burqas and basmachi with daggers, but she herself was ours, Kapchagai. Some stuffing of information takes place to test our reaction, to quarrel everyone and everything, since Kazakhstan is almost the only post-Soviet country where people are calmly smiling and smiling at each other, and not by order.
        1. Rinat 1
          Rinat 1 April 8 2014 19: 18
          +6
          That's for sure, we live nearby, and it seems that Russia is on the other side of the world. There is a lot of information garbage, the purpose of which is discord between friendly peoples.
      2. Canep
        Canep April 8 2014 19: 29
        +2
        Quote: diver1977
        ruthlessly feed beshbarmakom
        But before the hospital they can really be disharmonious. The food is heavy, with the stomach you can easily bend.
        1. Rinat 1
          Rinat 1 April 8 2014 19: 32
          +3
          Well, for this you need to drink besh koumiss. And everything will be alright.
        2. Guard
          Guard April 8 2014 23: 13
          +3
          Quote: Canep
          The food is heavy, with the stomach you can easily bend.

          You cannot overeat horse meat)))) But you can easily overeat beshbarmachniy noodles ("zhaima" in the sense) and baursaks. And an overabundance of lamb is also hard to bear. And you can really eat horse meat. It is absorbed very quickly by the body.
        3. foxxi
          foxxi April 9 2014 14: 17
          +3
          the main thing is not to drink water after ... especially cold and raw ... drink tea ... koumiss ... and everything will be in chocolate ...
    2. Canep
      Canep April 8 2014 19: 24
      +2
      Quote: Gur
      There are a lot of people who came from Kazakhstan to Russia among my circle of contacts, which means that, to put it mildly, not very

      People go to Russia for several reasons.
      1. People got money and no one could move closer to relatives now got this opportunity
      2. There is no certainty that with the departure of Elbasy everything will remain as it is now and will not get worse.
      3. People just want to be closer to relatives.
      4. In Russia, the standard of living is slightly higher, especially in Moscow. In the metro, an announcement - a metro driver - from 55000 to 90000 in Kazakhstan, a salary of more than 1000 $ is hard to find, and 3000 $ even more so.
      5. Domestic nationalism. This reason is most likely that it will be concomitant and not basic, and if a person travels only for this reason, then it is most likely that he himself is a nationalist.
      1. Sma11
        Sma11 April 10 2014 09: 35
        0
        4. In Russia, the standard of living is slightly higher, especially in Moscow. In the metro, an announcement - a metro driver - from 55000 to 90000 in Kazakhstan, a salary of more than 1000 $ is hard to find, and 3000 $ even more so.

        It’s expensive to live in Moscow. Muscovites themselves move from Moscow to the province laughing . Huts are rented and live on in the suburbs. And in Russia, finding a salary greater than 1000 $ is also problematic to find. And you will find - three skins will be lowered for her.
    3. Gur
      Gur 9 November 2015 11: 06
      0
      If I am mistaken, and in fact everything is wrong, then I am sincerely glad, but where the comments of those who have moved out, your position is clear and understandable, I will also be happy to feed you Kuban borsch and kebabs.
  15. Val_y
    Val_y April 8 2014 15: 53
    +2
    I think there will be no action against Kazakhstan, since it is a strategic ally. Ukru would digest (well, at least 2/3 laughing at most all)
    1. Beck
      Beck April 8 2014 17: 02
      +5
      Quote: Val_Y
      I think there will be no action against Kazakhstan, since it is a strategic ally. Ukru would digest (well, at least 2/3 as a maximum of all)


      HERE - HERE, HERE. This is the essence.

      1. This is an invention of the resettlement of 300. This cannot be raised at once. But something of course will change.

      2. The story of the Crimea made me think seriously. Kremlin not a man - no words. He promised in exchange for nuclear disarmament of Ukraine to guarantee the territorial integrity of Ukraine in 1996 and not what he guaranteed, but he himself dismembered Ukraine. Violating all international treaties.
      The Kremlin also promised Kazakhstan territorial integrity in exchange for nuclear disarmament. But now you can see what his promises are worth. The script was worked out in Ukraine. Bringing troops into Northern Kazakhstan, holding a referendum "on bayonets", alienation.

      3. That is why Kazakhstan, at the moment, does not want to put all the chips on one field. TS, CSTO is good, but what guarantees can there be that the Kremlin will not again become an oath-breaker? Looking at Ukraine there are no such guarantees. Therefore, relations with China are developing. We wanted to go to the Eurases joyfully. And now we want, but now with caution and caution. The unipolar orientation of Kazakhstan towards Russia is undermined by Russia itself.
      1. romb
        romb April 8 2014 17: 51
        +7
        Certain risks certainly exist. And at the same time, I do not think that a similar scenario will be, or rather, even possible in relation to Kazakhstan. Ukraine and Ukraine have too different relations with Russia. No matter how hard it was for our countries at times, Kazakhstan and Russia almost always tried, and they managed to find mutually acceptable options for cooperation. Well, if, nevertheless, such an attempt is made, then this will lead to much more widespread and catastrophic consequences on the entire Eurasian continent.
      2. Guard
        Guard April 8 2014 23: 26
        +5
        Russia and Ukraine had strained relations from the very beginning. But in Ukraine itself, the negative attitude, which in some regions developed into outright chauvinism, in relation to Russians and Russia, was a parable in languages. Scandals and quarrels in Russian-Ukrainian relations were all the time. In addition, whatever one may say, but in Ukraine there really were lands that, in theory, should belong to Russia.

        In Kazakhstan, the situation is "slightly" completely different. There have never been any real frictions and disputes between our countries. Kazakhs and Russians, for the most part, compliment each other. Graters appear only on the Internet, when they begin to argue "who gave whom more nishtyakov"; in real life, Kazakhs and Russians do not argue to such an extent, avoiding the sharp corners of the common history.
        Well, and most importantly, there are no "historical Russian lands" in Kazakhstan. Any attempt to find a "Russian land" in Kazakhstan breaks down on the question "How many Russians lived in such and such a region of Kazakhstan 100, 200, 300, 500 years ago?"
        Of course, there will always be ignoramuses who will talk about the mythical Russian regions that were given away by Khrushchev, Stalin, Lenin, Tsar Gorokh, but there are no such devil in the Kremlin who would in all seriousness be looking for a "Russian field" in the Kazakh steppe. ZhYrYnovsky does not count. This is a clown, not a real Russian politician. He is zero in Russian foreign policy. And in domestic politics, he does not decide anything. And Russians themselves have not perceived him as an adequate person for a long time (as it was not long ago in the 90s).
        1. Beck
          Beck April 9 2014 06: 54
          +4
          Quote: Guard
          Of course, there will always be ignoramuses who will talk about the mythical Russian regions that were given away by Khrushchev, Stalin, Lenin, Tsar Gorokh, but there are no such devil in the Kremlin who would in all seriousness be looking for a "Russian field" in the Kazakh steppe.


          There is definitely no ignorant in the Kremlin. But the clever people there are ready at any moment to raise the ordinary horror stories about the persecution of Russians in Kazakhstan and about "primordially" Russian lands to the official, state level in order to have a pretext for intervention.

          Ukraine.
          The Kremlin's (not Russia's) problems with Ukraine did not begin yesterday or the day before yesterday. They began in 2000, when Putin came to power. Putin has an imperial mindset created by KGB education. He, as an imperial nationalist, is very worried not about the collapse of the UNITED COUNTRY of the USSR, but over the collapse of the EMPIRE. He needs the overwhelming power of Moscow throughout the CIS. He also took up the non-gathering of the "lost" lands. He began with the Slavic countries - Ukraine and Belarus, they say, let's go back under the political wing of the Kremlin. They naturally did not want imperial power, and it began, closing gas taps, customs barriers, sanitary cordons, economic sanctions, defamation in the media. And they didn’t write anything about Lukashenka. Belarus was eventually left alone. And the Kremlin, taking advantage of the situation, punished Ukraine.

          And what happened in Ukraine? The people opposed the rotten regime of Yanukovych. Yanukovych escaped. New parliamentary and presidential elections scheduled. All. Of course, with such public perturbations, foam always forms, only foam, antisocial elements - thieves breaking shop windows, hooligans, right-wing individuals and all this is fueled by provocateurs. But this is NOT THE WHOLE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE. And the Kremlin attributed all this foam to all the people. Ukraine wants the EU and WHAT ANY BUSINESS where it will go is its sovereign right. And even with Ukraine, you can establish equitable relationship. But the Kremlin did not call this foam, but called the entire movement of the Ukrainian people to self-affirmation fascism. Russian media reproach Bandera. And who is Bandera for the Ukrainians - he was a fighter for the independence of Ukraine from whoever it was. At the age of 30, he fought against the Polish administration in Ukraine. He was captured and sentenced to death by the Polish authorities, replaced by life imprisonment. Bandera came out of prison when the Germans occupied Poland. Then the Germans, in the early 40s, arrested Bandera for trying to proclaim Ukraine independent, and placed him in a concentration camp. Where did he come from in 44. And also he fought against the power commies. Based on the similar logic of the Russian media and Khan Kenesary Kasymov, who fought against the autocracy, we can call a bandit and fascist in relation to tsarism. Bandits can be called all those who fought against dictatorial regimes - Garibaldi, Fidel Castro, sepoys of India, etc.

          All this I wrote about Kremlin policy, and not about Russia. It so happened that Kazakhs have no one closer to the Russian people, even among the Turkic peoples.
      3. Sma11
        Sma11 April 10 2014 09: 40
        0
        3. That is why Kazakhstan, at the moment, does not want to put all the chips on one field. TS, CSTO is good, but what guarantees can there be that the Kremlin will not again become an oath-breaker? Looking at Ukraine there are no such guarantees. Therefore, relations with China are developing. We wanted to go to the Eurases joyfully. And now we want, but now with caution and caution. The unipolar orientation of Kazakhstan towards Russia is undermined by Russia itself.

        The U.S. Department of Defense is building an ultra-expensive dual-use biological laboratory in Kazakhstan. This laboratory, designed to complement the system of similar facilities located by the Pentagon along the perimeter of Russia's borders. The construction of the Central Reference Laboratory based on the former Soviet Anti-Plague Research Institute in Almaty began in 2010 with the financial support of the US defense department. The commissioning of the laboratory is expected in 2015. Its work will be supplemented by a new station for early warning of disease outbreaks in Central Asia, located in the village of Otar (presumably on the basis of the Scientific Agricultural Research Institute of the Institute for Agricultural Research). The opening of the latter is scheduled for April 2014, for its construction the United States allocates 5,6 million dollars.
        Officially, the Central Reference Laboratory in Almaty is being created to ensure the safety of especially dangerous pathogens remaining in Kazakhstan from the Soviet military-biological program, and to study methods of protection against them, as well as the employment (after twenty years!) Of former military biologists. At the same time, a number of circumstances indicate that in reality this laboratory can be used for military biological developments conducted by the United States.

        Friendship is friendship, but ....
        1. Beck
          Beck April 10 2014 14: 40
          0
          Quote: Sma11
          The U.S. Department of Defense is building an ultra-expensive dual-use biological laboratory in Kazakhstan. This laboratory, designed to complement the system of similar facilities located by the Pentagon along the perimeter of Russia's borders.


          Can you list similar objects along the perimeter of the borders? Most likely not, so that there is nothing to shake the air with an unknown article written by someone.

          Why is the Pentagon building?

          1. It is America that has highly skilled combat biological weapons experts. That they will be able to recognize and neutralize battle strains anthrax, plague, cholera, etc.

          2. Renaissance Island in the Aral Sea was a testing ground for bacteriological weapons of the USSR Armed Forces. But for bacteria, there are no polygon boundaries. It is not known how many hundreds of kilometers, at the moment, the threat of encapsulated bacteria has lurked. It is not known exactly what bacteria it is.

          3. The government of Kazakhstan turned to Moscow with a request to provide data on which bacteria and viruses the work was carried out at the landfill in order to take appropriate preventive measures - the Kremlin is silent. And the epidemiological situation around the Aral Sea is the most difficult in the world.

          EXACTLY TO PROTECT THE POPULATION OF KAZAKHSTAN FROM THE CONSEQUENCES OF THE DEVELOPMENT AND TESTING OF BATTERY STRAPS OF BACTERIOLOGICAL WEAPONS AND COOPERATION WITH AMERICAN BIOLOGISTS WAS IMPROVED. And at the same time to work in natural epidemiological areas.

          In the early 80s, I worked in the city of Aralsk near the Aral Sea. Once in the summer, an epidemic of hepatitis broke out in Aralsk. Sick and old and young. 40-5 thousand were ill for 7 thousand of the population of the town. Schools, clubs, and other administrative buildings were adapted for hospital beds. Mortality was very high, but the exact numbers were classified. Special teams of doctors arrived from Moscow and Leningrad, but they helped little. The hepatitis virus that broke out did not respond to treatment with appropriate medications and conventional treatments.

          The people made two conclusions - Or biological material leaked from Renaissance Island - Or, the military biologists of the USSR tested the hepatitis virus fighting strain on the population.

          Choose any. I still have not chosen. And you filed your comment with a hint - the bastards are Americans and traitors are Kazakhs. First, they would say with which bacteria and viruses they worked at the training ground in order to know the direction of the efforts made in the prevention and prevention of a catastrophe - not an atomic, but a BIOLOGICAL EXPLOSION of combat strains.
      4. already a Muscovite
        already a Muscovite 30 September 2017 21: 47
        +1
        Quote: Beck
        The story of the Crimea made me think seriously. The Kremlin is not a man - it does not hold words. He promised in exchange for nuclear disarmament of Ukraine to guarantee the territorial integrity of Ukraine in 1996 and not what he guaranteed, but he himself dismembered Ukraine.

        I hope that I really made ... There would be no attempt to make the Crimea the Americans under the guise of Maidan, Crimea would remain Ukrainian. If I’m not mistaken (I read somewhere), the Ukrainian authorities took the money for renting Sevastopol right up to 2027. And still they tried to resell it again ...
        So Kazakhstan has nothing to fear ... Well, if only he, just like Ukraine, does not begin to hand over land to Americans for military bases ....
  16. marshes
    marshes April 8 2014 15: 54
    +9
    The situation in the south, high birth rates, lack of jobs and kindergartens, three-shift schools.
    The situation in the north, low birth rate, there are not many jobs either, but depopulation is taking place, many settlements are disappearing, schools are closing down.
    I’m looking through the press of neighbors in the border regions of the Russian Federation, they are worried that young people are leaving for Central Russia and are not returning, they are glad that migrants from Kazakhstan come to them and make up for the population decline.
    1. Semurg
      Semurg April 8 2014 22: 24
      +4
      Quote: marshes
      The situation in the south, high birth rates, lack of jobs and kindergartens, three-shift schools.
      The situation in the north, low birth rate, there are not many jobs either, but depopulation is taking place, many settlements are disappearing, schools are closing down.
      I’m looking through the press of neighbors in the border regions of the Russian Federation, they are worried that young people are leaving for Central Russia and are not returning, they are glad that migrants from Kazakhstan come to them and make up for the population decline.

      what is most interesting, according to my observations in South Kazakhstan, the highest birth rate among Uzbeks and Kurds, then Kazakhs, then Slavs, and if in 90-2000 Slavs 1 maximum 2 children are now 3-4 are not uncommon, maybe the economy has become better, maybe Asians They took an example. I traveled north in the summer there, like I used to have 1 or 2 children.
  17. romb
    romb April 8 2014 16: 04
    +9
    It seems that something very similar was already on the site?
    Although, it is quite possible that the reputable site administration simply decided:
    - "Since there is no important news from Kazakhstan, and the Kazakhs have recently quieted down something completely. Let's re-launch the old topic with a new sauce. And the people on the site will not hurt a little distraction from the Ukrainian topic." winked
    1. Rinat 1
      Rinat 1 April 8 2014 16: 41
      +8
      It's right! Collision of two friendly peoples foreheads! FAT Plus to you !!!
      1. Kasym
        Kasym April 9 2014 01: 42
        +4
        No, guys. What does a journalist want? To provoke a stormy discussion in society, to show oneself. To do this, go along the "knife edge", as they say. The sharper, the more effective. And what is it, negative or positive, they don't care. I gave birth to a theme against the background of Ukraine and let's download it. "And I am the first, and I am the first." ... In the west, they noted that they will give a grant next time. I see that more and more of these "hot cakes" appear. Sculpt and sculpt. bully
    2. The comment was deleted.
  18. Asan Ata
    Asan Ata April 8 2014 16: 11
    +12
    There is an outcome of the Slavs from Kazakhstan, this is a normal phenomenon. Old people remain, young people are looking for the future in Russia, and more in other countries. How did Russians and Ukrainians appear in Kazakhstan? In the 50s, about six million Russians and Ukrainians who arrived on party vouchers to raise virgin lands from the RSFSR and the Ukrainian SSR remained in the Kazakh SSR. Today, after the abuse, this land will give birth to 7 centners per hectare and then every 4-5 years. This is not Ukraine with its 3-meter layer of black soil. We had to dig a chernozem with a shovel, and even it was blown away after intensive digging. But in the 19th century they warned:The traditional form of animal husbandry that has developed in the Kazakh steppes since ancient times will be fully preserved in the coming years. The forced imposition of non-traditional activities such as agriculture and grain production can subsequently turn these lands into deserts. In these steppes, serious farming is difficult for two types of reasons - natural and economic. Severe winters and arid summers in a number of areas will lead to the death of crops, and all labor will be wasted. It is one thing if the lands in Kazakhstan were rich in black earth. But this is not, and the impression of fertility that arises is deeply misleading. In addition, water resources to ensure abundant harvests in Kazakhstan are insufficient.
    Mambetali Serdalin-Shubetov, in a report to the Senate Commission on Trade Development in the Russian Empire, March 8, 1890

    Russians and Ukrainians in Kazakhstan are now Kazakhstanis, for the most part international, just like Kazakhs, to be honest, over the years they have acquired many features of Kazakhs - internationality, hospitality, and goodwill. So everything is in order with us. drinks
    1. diver1977
      diver1977 April 8 2014 16: 23
      +14
      Many people think that in winter peaches grow)))
      When I tell my friends about snowdrifts up to 2 floors and frosts of -50, many do not believe)
      In our Akmola region, 11 centners are removed and they are happy.
    2. Guard
      Guard April 8 2014 23: 35
      +4
      Quote: Asan Ata
      The traditional form of animal husbandry that has developed in the Kazakh steppes since ancient times will be fully preserved in the coming years. The forced imposition of non-traditional activities such as agriculture and grain production can subsequently turn these lands into deserts. In these steppes, serious farming is difficult for two types of reasons - natural and economic. Severe winters and arid summers in a number of areas will lead to the death of crops, and all labor will be wasted. It is one thing if the lands in Kazakhstan were rich in black earth. But this is not, and the impression of fertility that arises is deeply misleading. In addition, water resources to ensure abundant harvests in Kazakhstan are insufficient.
      - Mambetali Serdalin-Shubetov, in a report to the Senate Commission on Trade Development in the Russian Empire, March 8, 1890


      Stalin, like the Russian tsars, like Khrushchev, also pondered how to turn the Kazakh steppe into virgin lands. As a result, it was decided that virgin soil in Kazakhstan should be plowed, BUT! Only after forest belts are planted along the virgin lands, which will bring down the steppe winds.
      And the hurry-up Khrushchev decided to do everything quickly. As a result, you know, a lot of land was destroyed due to soil erosion. Although there were constant proposals from Kazakhstan to Moscow - instead of grain growing, to strengthen beef cattle breeding. But Nikita wanted to "catch up and overtake" ...
  19. Earnest
    Earnest April 8 2014 16: 30
    +8
    Quote: Rinat 1
    But lately there are a lot of articles in the VO for the disagreement of two fraternal peoples. I think these articles do not need to be paid attention.

    No, Rinat, you have to! It is necessary to pay attention and react, and not only work together (in the sense of hands), but also on forums to strangle creatures trying to bring discord between nations.
    1. Rinat 1
      Rinat 1 April 8 2014 17: 15
      +7
      You're right! We are united by one story. Our ancestors, shoulder to shoulder, defeated the fascist evil spirits in their lair. And now we should not become like any creatures and pour mud on each other!
  20. polite people
    polite people April 8 2014 16: 32
    -2
    There is no logic, everything is decided by money.
  21. Kyrgyz
    Kyrgyz April 8 2014 17: 17
    +6
    Probably it would be worth considering in the light of recent events that before showing anger and taking sides, especially in the ethnic strife, it is worth determining the criteria by which the strife itself should be considered interethnic, and not pretended to be such a routine or a showdown of commerce. In the framework of upholding violated rights, there may be people who direct a resolution for the sake of personal advancement as a leader of the justice movement.
  22. buzer
    buzer April 8 2014 17: 20
    +10
    it's time to publish on the site just articles about Kazakhstan. Geography, history, culture, etc. Purely introductory, without any policy. And from some comments you don’t know to laugh or cry ... Some people have mess in their heads! Or just come to Kazakhstan, there are many places to relax. Here, of course, not Antalya and Hurghada (the climate is not the same), but in the summer a lot of people travel from Russia. And some in the comments carry some kind of blizzard of stereotypes and do not even understand what they say nonsense.
  23. Signaller
    Signaller April 8 2014 17: 54
    0
    I think no one will go. They have nothing to do there. There our Russian-speaking and German-speaking collective farms from the USSR remained. . Steppes. Fields and all. Tselinograd has birch pegs. All .... A small river Ishim flows. . There are no mountains. Nothing but steppe fields. and adobe villages of indigenous Kazakhs. (maybe better, I say 73). There is nothing for people to do there. There are no mountains. there are no forests .. Astana-Tselinograd is now a city in the steppes. It used to be a big village. Alma-Atoy cannot be compared. For 25 years, I think a little has been done. It is impossible to create something normal there. The climate is not the same.
    1. Kasym
      Kasym April 8 2014 20: 19
      +7
      Signal operator, type PLEASE in the search engine "Photos of Astana". And there will be no talk. I am not particularly selenium how to post pictures (fellow countrymen, please do), and the children went to bed.
      The signalman is already aksakal - you need to help deal with the topic.
      There, Nazarbayev planted a forest around Tselinograd-Astana and trees, be healthy already. hi
    2. Kasym
      Kasym April 8 2014 20: 36
      +2
      One kind
    3. Kasym
      Kasym April 8 2014 20: 37
      +1
      Or one more thing. Bayterek
    4. Kasym
      Kasym April 8 2014 20: 39
      +3
      Here is another view. All this was built in 10 years.
    5. Kasym
      Kasym April 8 2014 20: 41
      +2
      Or this ensemble. "Lighter". By the way, it was on fire, so the residents of Astana very accurately "brand" all new buildings.
    6. Kasym
      Kasym April 8 2014 20: 49
      +2
      Kazakhstan Pyramid. It was specially built for the congress of representatives of traditional religions.
  24. cerbuk6155
    cerbuk6155 April 8 2014 18: 08
    0
    Quote: W1950
    An old article. And Kazakhstan needs not to resettle the population, but to make it easier, to reunite with Russia.

    And heal better and military threats will be less. drinks
  25. ehomenkov
    ehomenkov April 8 2014 18: 17
    +1
    Well, what - the Russians - revered our Kazakh sages? That's it .. They, like great Ukrainians, rewrote the whole story for themselves and jump out of their pants from their own greatness .. Just think - some kind of Russia with its own history .. and the Russians - in general - and the invaders ... we all live with it day...
  26. supertiger21
    supertiger21 April 8 2014 18: 43
    +2
    The Kazakhs pursue a clever ethno-territorial policy, although it is aimed at turning ethnic Russians into a national minority. In any case, this is their business, the main thing is that there is no violence, as in Ukraine.
  27. ehomenkov
    ehomenkov April 8 2014 18: 49
    +1
    that banderlog that nat.pat think that the Russian colonialists staged a famine in the 30s. oppress Russians in the language issue. consider themselves a privileged nation, the governing state. And not any gratitude for the factories built by the Russians. The Russians should plow and the Kazakhs to control.
    1. romb
      romb April 8 2014 18: 58
      +11
      Young man, more expression - once you kindle, burn so that it burns.
      Only I have one small request for you - learn the Russian language, it will come in handy in life.
      1. Rinat 1
        Rinat 1 April 8 2014 19: 11
        +7
        that banderlog that nat.pat think that the Russian colonialists staged a famine in the 30s. oppress Russians in the language issue. consider themselves a privileged nation, the governing state. And not any gratitude for the factories built by the Russian cities. The Russians should plow and the Kazakhs should be controlled
        Yes, along the way, the guy is inadequate.
        1. romb
          romb April 8 2014 19: 15
          +5
          I do not exclude such a probability. Or maybe just still young enough, due to which, he perceives many things too literally.
          1. Rinat 1
            Rinat 1 April 8 2014 19: 24
            +5
            I looked at his last comment, then he is with the flag of mattresses, then with the flag of RK. Along the way, he doesn’t know where to determine, as in that joke about the monkey.
            1. romb
              romb April 8 2014 19: 37
              +5
              This is because of Beeline's servers. I have the same "problem", the flags are often confused, one comment can be defined as native - Kazakh, but the other, which I wrote just a couple of minutes later, is already as US.
  28. Flipman
    Flipman April 8 2014 19: 09
    +9
    Kazakhs and Russians have a common language, Russian obscene)) I go shorter in a taxi and there two guys talk to each other with mates so they 99% swear in Russian without accent) they themselves are from Taraz, it was in Almaty (the former Alma-ata, if who doesn’t know the former Faithful) so about what I’m talking to each other in Russian, we won’t have serious problems! do not compare Kazakhs and banderlogs, and Kazakhs' hospitality is beyond praise! if there are Kazakhs, they can tell when the Russians and not only were exiled almost naked here as they helped them!
  29. Astana_KZ
    Astana_KZ April 8 2014 19: 59
    +8
    Gentlemen of the forum, I do not understand at all, what kind of article is this? Why is it written in the style of "Russians are expelled from Kazakhstan", what is the author of this article hoping for? Believe me, nothing like this is happening here, what other migration from south to north? How do you imagine it at all? I want to appeal to people who incite hatred on ethnic grounds - guys, you will not succeed, Kazakhstan is a peaceful country, in which dozens of different nations live in peace and harmony. Believe me, there is no oppression, the Russian brother works on an equal basis with the Kazakh and has the same rights. I myself am from Astana and many Russian friends, and I can’t even think that I can quarrel with them on ethnic grounds, I can’t even imagine this, is this even possible? Do not believe the provocateurs who want to embroil us ... the best way is to come to Kazakhstan and see for yourself the friendliness and hospitality of the Kazakhs.
  30. Ermek
    Ermek April 8 2014 20: 22
    +9
    Russian people should not forget that tens of thousands of Kazakh Warriors during World War II laid their heads in battles for the liberation of the present territories of modern Russia. This fact convinces me that in the harsh days, Kazakh and Russian will be one people.
  31. Flipman
    Flipman April 8 2014 21: 15
    +10
    Well, the 316 Panfilov Division, for example, by the way from Almaty)) here is a park in their honor
    we respect the monuments)
  32. Kustanayets
    Kustanayets April 8 2014 21: 41
    +5
    Part of the Russian youth leaves to study in Russia - they remain there. Despite the fact that Kazakh families are more large. Naturally, the balance will change in favor of the Kazakhs through the generation. 300 thousand may be resettled, but not immediately, but in 20-30 years, by the year 2040. Moreover, it can even go exclusively to Astana - as in any country in the world, people aspire to the capital.

    And the article must be read from the end.
  33. Semurg
    Semurg April 8 2014 21: 50
    +8
    The replay article has nothing to add. On personal comments, I personally thank the Russians for the cities of Kazakhstan, for universal secondary and affordable higher education, for the virgin lands and industry, for the salvation from the Uigurs and Dzungars with the Chinese, and many more for that. All Russians did this only for the sake of the Kazakhs, did not sleep and did not eat, and from morning to night they only thought what else would make this nomad good and useful. But as they say, any medal has a second, so to speak, dark side of those good deeds that the Russians did while raising Kazakhstan. And if you say all the good things that I listed above that we did the Russians for the Kazakhs, then you must admit that the bad things that were done to the Kazakhs are the same thing you did (and not the authorities, Jews, Georgians, aliens, etc.). In general, it would be nice to leave these mutual counters in the past and not pull them out constantly in all topics. And I noticed maybe we tried on our part, maybe the Russians from Russia are slowly changing, but those 3-4 people who tried to raise the srach again hung minuses, and earlier they got pluses for such posts.
  34. foxxi
    foxxi April 9 2014 14: 41
    +5
    the article is of course not just like that ... such fairy tales are not written from scratch and without an order, although if you look at the perspective of current and past events, especially on the "open" issue of changing the Prime Minister and the Cabinet of Ministers of the Republic of Kazakhstan ... his resignation is not clear why what happened, as well as the arrival (appointment) to this post of Masimov K., who is rumored to be a "pro-Chinese" .. and when he was prime minister, there were also rumors about transferring the lands of the Republic of Kazakhstan to a long-term lease to the PRC ... there is something to think about ...
  35. Beck
    Beck April 9 2014 16: 06
    +4
    Something admins with moderators for caution. Koment Viciusa removed. Although previously the most rabid yesterday’s comments everywhere were full of colors. His koment in relation to them can be called neutral. Still answer to his koment.

    I do not know exactly how or what, but my relatives and relatives have long left Kazakhstan. I asked. They say they don’t drive them out, they don’t even squeeze them out, but they create such conditions, you will leave yourself. There is no bilingualism, everywhere you need to know Kazakh, and now also in Latin.

    What other conditions are needed for living in Kazakhstan? All conditions are, as evidenced by the Slavs of Kazakhstan on this site.

    As for bilingualism - This is the wish of the future. Administratively now, for ignorance of the Kazakh or Russian language, nothing is threatened and is not expected. And the Slavs, though not in this generation, but will come to bilingualism. Those who are now studying in schools will grow up and no problems.

    Only bureaucrats and then a high rank have problems with bilingualism. There, there is no place for a Kazakh who does not know the Russian language and a Slav who does not know the Kazakh language.

    And in the service sector and those institutions that directly work with the population - banks, public service centers and others, in general, there are also restrictions, but set not by the administration, but by life.

    A Kazakh who does not know the Russian Language will never be hired by a clerk, operator, employee of any institution. And this is because he needs to communicate with any visitor, even with an old Kazakh who does not know Russian, even with his grandmother, a Slav who does not know Kazakh.

    That is why the majority of employees of such institutions are bilingual Kazakhs, who can explain everything in both Kazakh and Russian. There are very few bilingual Slavs at this moment.

    But, if a Slav or Korean or German knows the Kazakh language, then, all other things being equal, he will have an advantage over the Kazakh when hiring.

    So that you do not need the philistine La-La about bilingualism.
    1. foxxi
      foxxi April 9 2014 16: 50
      +3
      Yes, relax already, you need to look when, at what time they left ... maybe at that time it was socially bad and even dangerous, but not on nationalist soils ... namely, social ... when everyone was bad and the Tungus and Kazakh and Russian ... but about ...