Media: India abandoned Russian Vikramadityi anti-aircraft complex

India announced it was abandoning the installation of the Vikramaditya aircraft-carrying cruiser of the Russian Kashtan anti-aircraft artillery system, media reported.
Instead, India is considering the possibility of acquiring French or Israeli systems, writes the relevant publication Strategy Page.

"Kashtan" - the Russian anti-aircraft missile artillery complex (ZRAK) "Dirk", which is designed for the defense of ships and stationary objects from high-precision weapons (anti-ship missiles), air targets (airplanes, helicopters), as well as for the firing of small marine and land targets. The complex has full automation of combat work from detection to destruction of the target.

Adopted in 1989, was installed on the Admiral Nakhimov and Peter the Great atomic missile cruisers, the Admiral aircraft cruiser fleet Soviet Union Kuznetsov ”and other ships.

The aircraft carrier Vikramaditya (the former heavy aircraft-carrying cruiser Admiral Gorshkov), which was transferred to the Indian Navy in Russian Severodvinsk in November last year, arrived at the naval base of Karvar on the coast of the southern Indian state of Karnataka 8 in January.

The largest export contract in the field of military-technical cooperation in the sale and modernization of Admiral Gorshkov was concluded with India in 2004. The Russian authorities were to hand over to Vikramadity in 2008. However, the repair and modernization of the Soviet aircraft-carrying cruiser was delayed, and its deadlines shifted to the end of 2012.

At the same time, the issue price has noticeably increased: the initial amount of the contract was 1,5 billion dollars, but already in the course of the work it exceeded 2 billion dollars. The total value of the transaction, according to unofficial data, is estimated at about 2,3 billion dollars.

An official ship handover ceremony was to take place in December 2012, but a few months before that, an accident occurred during sea trials in the Barents Sea. The aircraft carrier has failed power plant.

The problems occurred when an attempt was made to give full speed to the 30 nodes - three boilers that serve the ship’s steam turbines failed. As a result, the transfer of the aircraft carrier was postponed for another year and only 16 took place on November 2013 of the year.

Comments

[NIVH]

No matter how Indians are too smart ... Well, they don’t want to depend on one supplier, but there is such a thing as equipment compatibility ... Avaricious pays twice!

[alexng]

Quote: NIVH

Miser pays twice!

A fool three times!

[alexng]

Quote: NIVH

Miser pays twice!

A fool three times!

[Igor39]

They took the Jewish "Barak 8".

[Apollo]

Good morning everybody

Quote: Igor39

They took the Jewish "Barak 8".

Right.
Instead of Chestnut, India wants to acquire Israeli systems. India does not hide its dissatisfaction with the quality and characteristics of the systems of Russian weapons that have already been supplied to it. India already uses Israeli Barak-1 missiles, and now Israel offers much more advanced Barak-8 missiles.

http://minval.az/news/44392/

[makst83]

A sucker always pays!

[Andrey Yuryevich]

[quote = NIVH] India is rapidly developing in the field of weapons, and it seems to me that in this way, they just spy on technology from the French, they have a "dagger", now they will spy on the French, and in two or three years they will make their own.

[igor.borov775]

Absolutely true do not put your eggs in one basket, and OUR necessary to try these things very tough competition NEARLY depends new to offer all customer leaves, it's not just products but they depend on it lives, it's always a huge responsibility and consider all options, choose THE BEST, AND THIS OPTION DOES NOT SOLVE SOMETHING MEANS THIS SYSTEM ABOUT WHICH WE SITTING HERE DO NOT KNOW THIS MARKET AND NEED TO LIVE BY ITS LAWS

[StolzSS]

What do you want from them? The reindeer herders will change the modern device to the advertised junk from the advertising booklets ... Monkeys of current from a palm tree got off and here they are being taken into beautiful pictures ....

[tronin.maxim]

I don’t even know which is worse: either from the Chinese to buy, or from the Jews?

[igor.borov775]

I VERY WANTED TO GET A NEW BIOSOS THAT WOULD LIKE SELLING BY HIMSELF OFFER THE AIRCRAFT OFFERING A BORN OF AIRPLANES AND ALL HOLIDAYS BUT PRICE, THE JEWS ARE ALSO SOMETHING ABOUT

[kodxnumx]

Yes, I strongly doubt that the Franks and Jews created the best weapons, we have no equal in anti-aircraft anti-aircraft installations!

[Dezzed]

"We have no equal in rocket-anti-aircraft installations!"

And what is your short- and medium-range missile defense?

[Dezzed]

"but there is such a thing as equipment compatibility ..."


Compatible ship and anti-aircraft system?

if you continue the thought, then the Indians must sew the uniform for sailors in Russia.

[igor.borov775]

AND HOW THEN THE MISTRAL IS ALSO THE WEAPON CONTROL INFORMATION SYSTEM THE WHOLE CHEESE HAS BEEN SUSPENDED AND THE SECOND PLACING OF THE MARINE IN ORDER ABOVE

[zaazua]

compatibility of anyone with whom ???

[siberalt]

Is corruption really stronger than Russian in India? Or our kickbacks are not satisfied.

[avt]

Quote: siberalt

Is corruption really stronger than Russian in India? laughing Or our kickbacks are not satisfied.

In addition, there are a couple more factors - the diversification of arms supplies, which they turn into collecting weapons and the hypertrophied conceit of the ancient holders of the mysterious knowledge about vimanas and other miracles transmitted orally. This secret knowledge prompted them to replace asbestos with bricks. Well, the result is known - the "curvature" of our shipbuilders.

[Andrey Yuryevich]

The problems occurred when an attempt was made to give full speed to the 30 nodes - three boilers that serve the ship’s steam turbines failed. As a result, the transfer of the aircraft carrier was postponed for another year and only 16 took place on November 2013 of the year.
damn cauldrons ... how much blood did the naval drink! last century damn it! Because of these boilers, our excellent destroyers of the "Sarich" project died prematurely in the Bose ... as the Indians were bred for e.u. I can't imagine this type!

[Nayhas]

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

how Indians lit up on e.u. I can’t imagine this type!

What could we offer? GTUs do not have such power with us, and replacing a power plant would cost a decent amount. The Indians bought the GTU aircraft carrier under construction from the Americans from GE, they themselves do not know how to do from GE either.

[Revolver]

Quote: Nayhas

What could we offer? Gas turbines of such power do not

In a good way, an aircraft carrier needs a nuclear reactor. But the turkeys probably got squeezed up, they wanted it as cheaply, so the Chinese brick boilers had raped.

[Cynic]

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

how Indians lit up on e.u. I can’t imagine this type!

Mmmm, I can’t imagine the same as you are not aware of this Santa barbara with thermal insulation of boilers.
Or are you from a cohort _ What can these Russians think smart?
Then it’s clear that in the information war the distortion of reality is quite acceptable.

[VNP1958PVN]

Did the French push the bribe?

[mabuta]

I don’t understand anything. At first, India insisted on replacing the power plant, which led to an accident during sea trials and, as a result, to putting the system into operation. Then they installed their batteries on the submarine, which led to an explosion and fire. Maybe their agents of influence lobby someone’s interests. Now that’s an excellent, fully automated complex was not in the yard. Maybe the bucks are being thrown off?

[spech]

Maybe bucks throw off?

they saw there no worse than ours

[alexng]

Or maybe ordered specifically for disassembling and draining a green wrapper. Well, then they will put on the "Dagger", as always happens with the Indians.

[smith7]

"Kashtan" for the Russian Navy is called "Kortik". Provides air defense for the near zone. They do it in Tula. Given that the aircraft carrier does not go alone, it is possible to completely abandon the air defense located on the ship itself. But "Kashtan" is a really highly effective ZRAK, a weapon of "last resort". Few "French" or "Jew" compares to him. In vain they are so, Indians. I will assume that they tried to bring down the price below the lower limit, but ours did not yield. In this sense, they (Hindus) are very harmful. Without "Kashtan" a certain "inferiority" will come, this is not a set of multi-colored flags, which does not matter from which manufacturer ...

[ken]

In my opinion, the "states" pushed the Indians through - they are giving up our tanks, planes, and now the Kashtan anti-aircraft artillery system. They developed the Indians on their own heads, but in general ...

[Yarik]

NIVH Today, 06:31 New
No matter how Indians are too smart ... Well, they don’t want to depend on one supplier, but there is such a thing as equipment compatibility ... Avaricious pays twice!


Confused, brahmaputra. That is, compatibility can fail them.

[Nayhas]

India announced it was abandoning the installation of the Vikramaditya aircraft-carrying cruiser of the Russian Kashtan anti-aircraft artillery system, media reported.

It is strange that this is considered news. It’s already known soooo that during the alteration of Gorshkov all air defense systems were removed. All artillery and the SAM Dagger. If there were plans for Kashtan, then it would have been set during the conversion.

[bigELDAK]

tth ram 8

[zaazua]

and why is this comparison ?????
first air defense missile defense, and I am a PCR!

[Santilo42rus]

They don’t want to, we don’t have to leave it for ourselves, and then we'll see how the elbows will bite

[Apollo]

Quote India announced about refusal from the installation of the Vikramaditya cruiser “Russian chestnut” anti-aircraft artillery system, the media reported.

Doodles

[Walk]

In general, I wonder who the Indians were going to fight on foreign territory. An aircraft carrier is a weapon of attack, and of prestige, of course. It is useless for defense. I understand China - they have territorial problems, but India doesn’t have that kind of thing, except for Sri Lanka. So there are a couple of destroyers enough. Or is it prestige?

[Apollo]

Quote: Walk

I understand China - they have territorial problems, but India doesn’t have that kind of thing, except for Sri Lanka.

I will add ......... and with Pakistan regarding the state of Jammu and Kashmir.

[Saburo]

The weapon of prestige. For about the same purpose, why an aircraft carrier in Brazil. Now aircraft carriers are the largest of modern surface ships.

[sv68]

and we won’t cry, let them buy what they want, and the country that sold the anti-aircraft complex to India must prepare for the fact that their weapons will suddenly become inoperative and often breaking

[gregor6549]

I have already expressed my opinion about "Kashtan" but I will repeat myself again. This air defense system can be called successful at a stretch. Firstly, the integration of cannon and artillery weapons in one "bottle" led to the need to equip this system with high-speed and high-precision cylindrical synchronous servo drives (SSP) to control weapon guidance in azimuth and elevation. Anyone who has dealt with SSP understands how difficult it is to realize high accuracy and speed in power SSP. At the same time, high accuracy is required mainly for guns (on the order of several arc minutes), and for missiles these requirements are much lower (plus or minus bast shoes). Further, when an air attack attack on a ship from different directions, Kashtan has to consistently transfer his guns and missiles to all directions where there is a threat to the ship. Given that targets at different azimuths can be located at a given time and at different ranges, such
rotating the "head" is not the best solution, Next. The stock of missiles of the complex is limited and will be used up very quickly, and the possibilities of reloading missiles in the process of repelling a raid are more than limited. Therefore, it would be more rational to separate the guns from the missiles, and place the missiles in a vertical type launcher (fixed or revolving type). This makes it possible to have a much more solid stock of combat-ready missiles, the ability to fire missiles at the VC in any directions and angles without using complex and cumbersome SSPs, and to use bunches and missiles in areas where they are most effective at any given time. And it is easier to place spaced systems on a ship than combined ones. This trend, by the way, is dominant in most of the world's fleets. In this case, we observe an attempt to cross a hedgehog with a snake, which is understandable in principle since It is profitable for the manufacturers of land Tunguski and Shells to drag their developments to ships with minimal changes, minimal headache, and in the shortest possible time but with the maximum profit. Whether this is beneficial to the fleet is another question.

[Svetlana]

I do not really understand this topic, but I think that rather, you are right. There are no fools in India and never have been. If this was decided, then there were good reasons. We have always had friendly relations with India, but it will not sacrifice national interests for friendship.

[gregor6549]

I apologize for the confusion. I have to write in Russian in English "clave".

[Revolver]

Quote: gregor6549

I apologize for the confusion. I have to write in Russian in English "clave".

www.translit.ru

[Sirocco]

Quote: Svetlana

I don’t really understand this topic,

I am also not good at this topic. But judging by your comment and Gregor's comment above,

There are no fools in India and never have been.

It turns out we have fools designer? But what about the Shell? Also bullshit, in your opinion? And on the account of friendship with India, I will say this. Russia has two friends, this is the army and navy. It happened so historically. Even a former friend in the Czech Republic calls for NATO troops to enter Ukraine, from the aggressor in the person of Russia. Such are the former friends.

[Svetlana]

Our designers are the best in the world, but the conditions in which they are forced to work do not allow them to jump above their heads. Corruption, like rust, destroys the greatest achievements of the best specialists, on which many people want to warm their hands for nothing, but simply for some kind of squiggle on a piece of paper. At the expense of the Czech Republic - she is not our friend since 1999 of the year. Eastern Europe from the Gorbachev-Yeltsin era turned to us booty. And India has never refused friendship with us.

[Sasha_Bykov]

BUT CORRUPTION IS EVERYWHERE AND INDIA IS NOT AN EXCEPTION AS THERE, THERE SAVED A MILITARY BUDGET TO THE FLOW DELIVERED, AND TIES FROM FOREIGN CORPORATIONS CANNOT BE EXCLUDED

[scientist]

Quote: gregor6549

integration of cannon and artillery weapons in one "bottle"

It is associated with the need to reduce weight and size characteristics. aircraft carrier, although a large ship, but not dimensionless. In addition, why make 2 SSP, 2 expensive optical and radar tracking systems, if you can do one, it is much cheaper.
SSP tracking accuracy is easy enough to ensure that what servomotors have learned to do. But to ensure the stabilization of the platform during the shooting burst, this is a big problem. Apparently for this reason, the cannon complex was developed specifically to provide less impact.
We can only speculate about the true reasons for India's refusal to put "Chestnuts" on Vikramaditya. But as a specialist in the creation of air defense systems, I can say with a high degree of probability that this is due to the complete automation of the Kashtan system. The aircraft carrier is primarily intended to support aviation flights. And if the Kashtan complex does not have a reliable system of state identification, and it is not available in the export version, then you can easily knock down your planes. If the Indian system of state identification is installed on Kashtan, it is obvious that the Indians themselves doubt its reliability, so they do not want to risk it.
The next important factor is a comprehensive approach to creating an air defense system based on uniform technological and software principles. If India has decided to equip the aircraft carrier with Israeli air defense systems, then the radar reconnaissance systems and ACS should be the same company. Otherwise, there will be a problem in the algorithms of combat support and quality of target designation. In addition, in the case of an emergency, such as an accident, missed targets or false alarms, it will be very difficult to find the extreme.
But I personally do not understand why, without conducting comparative tests, India again makes decisions that clearly smell like another corruption scandal. Several years ago, a number of Indian officials were already involved in receiving large bribes from Israeli companies, and Israeli companies were removed from MTC with India, then they were allowed, but with special control measures enshrined in a special Law on MTC with Israel, and now everything seems to be back to square one own. As the saying goes, “let the hand of the giver not fail,” especially when the recipients hold high government posts. It is a pity that the recipients of kickbacks do not understand that sooner or later, they will have to pay a much higher price.

[Earnest]

And in which year, remind me, did India refuse?)) At the stage of issuing the terms of reference, I think. As I remember now, what big trees were then)) The news was rotten:
- And who are the judges? - For antiquity
To a free life their enmity is irreconcilable,
Judges draw from forgotten newspapers
The times of the Ochakovskys and the conquest of the Crimea "*,
- Crimea, hmm, "conquered", is it time to repaint the old gossip? In verse I will finish the thought:
Don't go past the mother-in-law's house, author, otherwise the Russians will beat you because of the Vikramaditya.


* A. S. Griboedov, “Woe from Wit” - especially for the author.

[tupolev-95]

How many years India has been buying our weapons, so much and complaining about the quality, but for some reason continues to buy. I read the article and right before my eyes came another article, which I read back in the 90s, when I went to school. There Indians complained about "Tunguska" .In my opinion this is how they do business.

[gregor6549]

India 90x and modern India are two big differences. In 90, India had no particular choice, no serious money, no experience. America preferred to sell weapons to Pakistan, China was also not a friend of India, and Russia was ready to sell everything to anyone who wanted, sometimes for nothing. Now it is a completely different country with different opportunities and the whole world is already different. It is not for nothing that many high-tech western companies give a lot of their work, especially in the IT field, to the same India. And cheap and quite angry. Again, the negativity in working with Russian companies, India has accumulated pretty much (we recall only the epic with this aircraft carrier). Therefore, the Indians have become more circumspect in choosing counterparties, and even in India itself, the compliance of the purchased / created equipment with the requirements of the national defense has become more attentive and professional.

[plague_veliky]

India announced it was abandoning the installation of the Vikramaditya aircraft-carrying cruiser of the Russian Kashtan anti-aircraft artillery system, media reported.
We will wait for official sources, otherwise it will turn out like with the T-50 the media trumpeted the Indians' discontent, and they took it and said that they say that it’s all journalism that they spread nonsense.

[Lesorub]

The Hindus started it in vain - obviously they won’t win!

[razved]

Another attempt to "diversify" arms imports.

[kelevra]

They do not want, do not, too proud they have become something!

[project sity]

E .. old Indians, all is not enough for them. Litter american poland I have nothing to say

[Cynic]

Hmm.
I remembered - Deus quos vult perdere dementat prius [deus quos vult perdere dementat prius]
Overall

"Whom God wants to punish, that first deprives the mind"

Considering _
Pantheon of Indian gods and supreme deities - Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva.
Further _
Three forms of Vishnu: Maha, Garbodakasayi and Ksirodakasayi.
...
A few thousand.
In general, the most interesting is yet to come, let's hope the Indians understand that the main thing is not to sin, but

the main thing is to repent in time

[emeldos2]

Yes, let them do what they want, they pay for beauty and not for security.