Military Review

Special Aviation Poghosian

265



On April 8, at the initiative of the State Duma Defense Committee, closed hearings should be held - they are waiting for the president of the United Aircraft Corporation (UAC), Mikhail Poghosyan. There are a lot of questions to him. Public corporation PR specialists cannot answer them for sure, know yourself praise the Sukhoi Superjet 100 and the new Sukhoi Design Bureau combat vehicles - the Su-35, Su-34 and, of course, I will accept the T-50 (promising aviation Frontline Aviation Complex PAK FA).

As it became known to the editorial board of the Academy of Sciences, not only the General Prosecutor’s Office of Russia was puzzled by the failed results of Pogosyan’s activities as head of the UAC. The military are complaining, the top leaders of the country are voicing their hidden discontent. And I am sure that the deputies and experts of the State Duma will not pass by civil subjects.

Strangled aircraft ...

In the 80-e years of the last century, only the Samara aircraft factory produced by plane a week. And not small - Tu-154M. So they could?
And now we have a picture that wants to howl. The same Samara produces, at best, three or four small (capacity up to 52 passengers) liner An-140. The entire aviation industry of the country last year issued all 36 passenger cars. Of these, 24 "Superjet", which is 80% packed with foreign components. The rest is one IL-96, two Tu-214, six An-148. For comparison: in 2013, Boeing delivered record-breaking 648 civilian aircraft, Airbus 626.

Single domestic passenger planes accrue mainly to government agencies. IL-96 sent to the Special Flight Squad (SLO) to serve the highest officials of the state, An-140 called up for military service. Over the past seven years, commercial airlines have received about 50 machines from our aviation industry. And more 700 foreign-made aircraft.

For the sake of justice, the current head of the UAC did not corner the aircraft manufacturers alone. Liberal and market-maker E. Gaidar generally considered his own civil aircraft industry to be a whim; Marshal of Aviation E. Shaposhnikov, when he was general director of Aeroflot, opened the window for Boeing and Airbasov to penetrate the Russian market. Former Minister of Industry and Trade V. Khristenko publicly announced the closure of the IL-96 program, Prime Minister Dm. Medvedev regularly demanded a ban on flights of one or the other domestic aircraft. But today the Ministry of Industry and Trade is headed by D. Manturov, UAC - M. Poghosyan. With them demand. They should ask this question: why did our country become an influential player in the civil aircraft market, not as a manufacturer, but as a buyer?

Who is your friend?

Many experts believe that Pogosyan is only a screen for more powerful manipulators. Yes, without high patrons certainly not done. But more than three years ago, he headed the UAC and now acts as a soloist in the aircraft industry. This is sufficient time to correct the consequences of sabotage acts of predecessors. But no, he continues to pump out funds from the state budget for “super-engineering”, demonstrates to the public giant foreign contracts for these liners. True, for some reason, most often these are companies that are in a comatose and pre-bankrupt state.

Vice Prime Minister Dm. Rogozin has long and rightly demanded that everything be done in order to preserve and support domestic design schools. But all projects in civil aviation are perceived by Pogosyan completely or reduced to the construction of special boards. I talked with the designers of AK Ilyushin, and with their colleagues from OJSC Tupolev - their future is shrouded in a mist of uncertainty. Here Rogozin says that it is necessary to start producing passenger IL-114 in Russia. And the CB, just in case, immediately prepares a proposal to the Ministry of Defense to make a patrol version of the aircraft for them. Because Pogosyan will wave aside from the “passenger”, but it is difficult to ignore the Ministry of Defense, headed by S. Shoigu.

Rogozin needs to complete the training and put on the wing of the military transport Il-112. For the cab and electronic stuffing, the designers and technologists decided to unify it with the IL-76MD-90А, which this year was launched into mass production. On the IL-76 installed the most modern equipment by today's standards. I emphasize - domestic! And what are the UAC and the Ministry of Industry and Trade trying to smelt "Ilyushins"? Cab and electronic components from the "Superjet". Which are produced mainly overseas. That is, to put the Russian Air Force dependent on the whims of the US State Department.

Apparently, for Pogosyan and Manturov, theirs is not here, but there. They do not care at all that, without regular orders, the enterprises supplying components for the aircraft industry will lose, as the effective managers now say, competence. Or simply unfavorable production is curtailed. Then certainly to bow to the western partners, friends of Pogosyan and Manturov, let's go.

For a quarter of a century Tupolevs, with half the sin, having built Tu-76 liners of various modifications, rescued the domestic production of components. They are often blamed for the fact that it is difficult to find two completely identical Tu-204. And this is true - the aircraft was improved all the time, retrofitted, modernized. But there was no series! One aircraft per year is a hand-made piece of paper, like the Rolls Royce.

Apparently, the state will does not reach the executor in the person of Pogosyan to build his own planes, to develop his own aviation industry. Or he diligently, until fired, solves his own problems, juggling financial flows. The decisions of higher officials, including those of the vice-premier level, are sabotaged by the president of the KLA. Yes, and to the direct instructions of the President of Russia V. Putin is regarded as insignificant recommendations.
Something needs to be changed in the control system of the aviation industry. Pogosyan, under the watchful eye of the long-eliminated Minaviaproma, would not have been so free. Previously, MAP created the appearance and technical requirements for airliners, and the designers competed in their implementation and competed. And Pogosyan competes with himself, smoothly brings the situation to the point of no return. And if it is not stopped, then we will stay with one “great” new formation “Sukhoi Civil Aircraft” (GSS) and a bunch of faceless and amorphous “centers of competence”.

An-148T - a truck from Pogosyan will be rescued by the "Superjet"

To provide for foreign customers the possibility of installing components of Western production - good. But in the first place should be complete independence from external factors. This statement in no way concerns the Ukrainian engine builders. Yes, it is not easy for them to exist in the new political reality, but even the most frantic representatives of all “sectors” will not risk breaking the existing Russian-Ukrainian cooperation in aircraft building and arranging an anti-Maid explosion in the south-east of the country. Moreover, plans for the construction in Voronezh of a whole series of X-NUMX An-150T aircraft, the cargo version of the passenger liner, were announced. The Russian side has already received a full package of technical documentation. And no one proposes to install almost French SaM-148 engines of the Rybinsk assembly (the same as on the Superjet) instead of Zaporozhian D-146-436 on the aircraft.

The Voronezh aircraft manufacturers will cope with such an order for 4 – 5 years or not, time will show. There are doubts, since the UAC in the person of Pogosyan has long been keeping the aircraft factory on a starvation ration. In 2014, only six aircraft of this type will be produced - a mockery of common sense. An-148, like the Tu-334, is able to easily wipe the nose of the completely “import-dependent” “Superjet”. Therefore, Pogosyan did and does everything possible so that the “An” was not available for commercial operation and became the next plane of the state structures and the Ministry of Defense. The production of a large series of An-148T trucks does not contradict Pogosyan’s policy — its Superjet, the cuckoo of Russian aviation, he defended from An, closing the passenger niche for the Voronezh machine. And with its power, the Tu-334 has long been keeping it near the wall at the aircraft factory in Kazan, not allowing retrofitting and selling to those who wish even two almost finished aircraft, the best sign that the Tupolev machine is able to press the “Superjet” on the market.
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265 comments
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  1. konvalval
    konvalval April 5 2014 15: 14
    +44
    Are these Manturov and Poghosyan, like a little redhead, also untouchable? There is no government on them? It turns out that there are no issues to be resolved with Crimea, but with these in no way, as my three-year-old great-granddaughter says. Drive, and maybe plant.
    1. Nevsky_ZU
      Nevsky_ZU April 5 2014 15: 19
      +30
      Such paragraphs in Ukraine, the local Russian is just scary to read, here all hopes for the revival of Great Russia:

      Rogozin needs to complete the training and put on the wing of the military transport Il-112. For the cab and electronic stuffing, the designers and technologists decided to unify it with the IL-76MD-90А, which this year was launched into mass production. On the IL-76 installed the most modern equipment by today's standards. I emphasize - domestic! And what are the UAC and the Ministry of Industry and Trade trying to smelt "Ilyushins"? Cab and electronic components from the "Superjet". Which are produced mainly overseas. That is, to put the Russian Air Force dependent on the whims of the US State Department.
      1. elmi
        elmi April 6 2014 00: 07
        +12
        But all the projects in the civilian aircraft industry are perceived by Poghosyan with hostility or are reduced to the construction of special boards.

        And not just civilian projects, but also momentarily. There is an assumption that Poghosyan is lobbying for the development of the SU family, to the detriment of other projects, including momentarily. Yes, and the light MiG is for Poghosyan, which is an eyesore, other than to explain that recently there has been a release of heavy dryers, but there is no instant? Nobody has canceled light fighters yet. They are still in demand abroad. They are cheaper, they consume less fuel, they are more difficult to detect, because they have many times less ESR. According to Soviet doctrine, the optimal ratio of light and heavy fighters should be 3 to 1 and we get the emphasis in the direction of heavy. So development should be uniform and lobbying alone should not be because the country's defense capability suffers.
        1. DimychDV
          DimychDV April 6 2014 05: 12
          +4
          The problems are also in the fact that people who understand both the aviation market and the aviation industry at the same time have miscalculated in the country once or twice.
          "Yes, I have the best rockets in the world!"
          - "And how do you know that they go like hot cakes?"
          - What are you: they are all secret ... But the best!
          ... and so on - until they crashed somewhere with a large gathering of reporters.
        2. sleepy
          sleepy April 6 2014 12: 19
          +5
          Quote: elmi
          "There is an assumption that Poghosyan is lobbying for the development of the SU family, to the detriment of other projects,
          including by MIG. "


          The creators of the MiGs wrote an open letter to the president.
          The work team believes that the enterprise is on the verge of destruction
          "... In addition, the IC staff draws attention to the following:
          1. Why, after the departure of General Designer Belyakov R.A. Our company is led by the descendants of "Sukhoi" and "Irkut" who are competitors of our company?
          The result of their many years of activity with the inability or unwillingness to defend the interests of the company today are:
          debt in the amount of 48 billion;
          closure of a number of topics (1.44, MiG-AT, MiG-110);
          disruption of the Algiers contract;
          losing the tender in India;
          the delay in the supply of India MiG-29K (not the fault of the EC);
          delay in resolving issues on the MiG-29K for the Russian Navy ...
          ... In connection with the foregoing, we consider it necessary:
          Conduct a full audit of the financial position of RAC MiG OJSC, optimizing the costs of the governing apparatus and increasing due to this the salaries of ordinary engineers.
          Conduct an objective investigation into the causes of the situation, with the public announcement of its results.
          Stop the activities of MA Poghosyan and Co. on the collapse of the aviation industry.
          Stop the collapse of our enterprise, which can still create the best samples of aviation technology, and, thereby, preserve the unique Mikoyan Design School - in the name of strengthening the defense capability of our Motherland "
          http://www.metronews.ru/novosti/sozdateli-migov-napisali-otkrytoe-pis-mo-prezide
          ntu / Tpokju --- nINEFRlUm5xiM /
      2. vell.65mail.ru
        vell.65mail.ru April 6 2014 00: 41
        +10
        It is profitable for someone to buy scrap abroad, someone has it, and his aircraft is on the side, can really really intervene harshly to the president_or weak !!!
    2. Su24
      Su24 April 5 2014 15: 40
      .
      Another anti-Poghosyan criticism with exaggerations and distortions. The author absolutely does not want to consider the situation in dynamics, and as a result, does not give any real practical recommendations. Just an emotional cry from the heart.
      1. Cherdak
        Cherdak April 5 2014 16: 16
        .
        Quote: Su24
        Another anti-Pogosian criticism

        Not that word! Vovchik Leonov aki Pug flickers, stamps and throws his verses on the fan:
        Why is Putin suffering Pogosyan?
        Who "roofs" Poghosyan?
        Aerobatics in lies and the sky
        Aviation proud, aviation flooded


        And meanwhile:

        Sukhoi Superjet 100
        Dates of the first flights for 2014:
        1 95044/24.01.14/5 _ 95057. 10.03.14 XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX
        2 95050/07.02.14/6 _ 95052. 19.03.14 XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX
        3 95047/19.02.14/7 _ 95058. 31.03.14 XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX
        4. 95051 05.03.14
      2. skifd
        skifd April 5 2014 17: 18
        +30
        Judging by the nickname, are you in Poghosyan’s team?

        Quote: Su24
        The author absolutely does not want to consider dynamic situation


        In what "dynamics"? Come to any airport, you will see the "dynamics" ... It is clearly negative, well, not in favor of the domestic aircraft industry .. The airliners are still Soviet-built (already few), and foreign "tubs" of the same years of construction are the main part fleet!
        1. Cetegg
          Cetegg April 5 2014 17: 46
          +3
          http://malchish.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=414&Itemid=35 ссылка на интересный цикл статей о суперджете и Российском авиастроении!
        2. Rakti-kali
          Rakti-kali April 5 2014 18: 05
          .
          Quote: skifd
          The airliners are still Soviet-built (already few), and foreign "pelvis" of the same years of construction - the main part of the domestic fleet!

          And what, someone forbids domestic companies to buy domestic airplanes? Ah, they don’t want to !? Stop ... what does Poghosyan have to do with it?
          1. Cetegg
            Cetegg April 5 2014 18: 17
            +26
            The company "Red Wings" used a Tu-204! She wanted to keep buying these models! But ... she was stupidly forced to refuse contracts for the purchase of domestic aircraft models! and as soon as they began to buy supported Boeings and Airbases, lo and behold, artificially created economic barriers collapsed around this airline!)
            1. Cetegg
              Cetegg April 5 2014 18: 22
              +30
              To the Chairman of the Government of the Russian Federation.
              V.V. To Putin

              Dear Vladimir Vladimirovich!

              Recently, at a meeting with Aeroflot CEO V. Savelyev You criticized him for the insufficient use of Russian-made aircraft. Allow me to consider this a praise to me, our Red Wings airline operates the largest number of domestic airliners in the country - 8 TU 204 aircraft. And not a single foreign car.

              Since 2006, I have been subsidizing Red Wings airline for reasons of principle. The reason for the loss is, firstly, excessive leasing rates from Ilyushin Finance Co. (our partnership with the Government since 2000, where I invested about 5,5 billion rubles without any income), - about 12 million rubles ./month at similar rates on foreign cars 2 times lower! The second reason is dumping on the charter transport market by state-owned companies that easily and unconsciously fly at a loss (Atlant-Soyuz, Orenburg Airlines, KMV-air, etc.) Why wouldn’t we sell the carrying capacity chair by 20-30% lower than cost, if the growing debt doesn’t bother anyone (closes the budget), and the “financial result” (at least one billion rubles a year) brings a tour operator, especially Turkish, to state management in a box from a photocopy machine.

              We add to this that insignificant subsidies on leasing rates are paid by Red Wings by the Ministry of Transport not always and with a delay of up to a year, and VAT is almost not returned.

              In other words, the cause of the losses is not our bad management, and not the bad planes. These reasons (easily eliminated at the request of the Government) are beyond our control. Given the above circumstances, as well as the catastrophe in agriculture, the failure of the individual housing market, the crisis of default on loans NRC is unlikely to be able to subsidize Red Wings endlessly.

              From my (one-way) correspondence with the Ministry of Economic Development and the Ministry of Transport, I realized that these departments are not interested in either the fate of Red Wings, the fate of the IFC, or the embezzlement in the public sector in the field of air transportation. Although these companies are closely related - revenue from Red Wings with 2007. is one of the main sources of income for IFC.
              In my opinion, the approach of these departments to their duties is at least non-state. I hope that I can’t be blamed for the lack of efforts, if you want, for patriotism, for saving the aircraft industry or for not wanting to exploit Russian aircraft.

              I ask you to instruct the Ministry of Transport to take measures to restore order in the airline industry, and the Ministry of Economic Development to take an active part in the fate of the system-forming Ilyushin Finance company for the aviation industry.
            2. Geisenberg
              Geisenberg April 5 2014 19: 06
              +15
              Quote: Cetegg
              The company "Red Wings" used a Tu-204! She wanted to keep buying these models! But ... she was stupidly forced to refuse contracts for the purchase of domestic aircraft models! and as soon as they began to buy supported Boeings and Airbases, lo and behold, artificially created economic barriers collapsed around this airline!)


              It was just closed using a convenient occasion. Boeings are constantly fighting all over the world and no one is closing down for example Malaysian Airlines ...
              1. Cetegg
                Cetegg April 5 2014 19: 18
                +10
                Even the IAC is actively involved in protecting the interests of Boeing!) A striking example of this is the Boeing 737 disaster in Kazan! MAC will not "bite the hand that feeds" wink
              2. Cetegg
                Cetegg April 5 2014 23: 33
                +2
                Here's about "Red Wings" Excerpt "The Russian aviation industry may lose its largest client - Red Wings. The Federal Air Transport Agency is dissatisfied with the state of affairs in the airline controlled by businessman Alexander Lebedev and threatens to suspend its activities. The entrepreneur himself considers the claims against the carrier far-fetched. the act of inspection control of basic facilities dated April 13 of this year (a source close to the airline told about its existence), “the operator does not meet the requirements of federal aviation rules.” In particular, the Rosaviation commission had questions about the certification of the recently appointed general director of the carrier Leonid Itskov, except In addition, the company is charged with the absence of the head of the air transportation organization service.Federal Aviation Regulations No. 106 ", - the act says. According to these points, the Federal Air Transport Agency may impose restrictions or suspend the operator's certificate or cancel it. "" In June 107, at a meeting with the then Deputy Prime Minister Sergei Ivanov, it was decided that Vnesheconombank would finance transactions with the Tu-11 SM, but its representative yesterday stated that nothing is known about the contract with Lebedev. A person familiar with the course of negotiations between the UAC and Lebedev explains that Vnesheconombank treats interaction with the businessman with caution: Lebedev is not very consistent in implementing the agreements. At the end of last year, he signed a memorandum on the exchange of a 2011% stake in the Ilyushin Finance (IFC) leasing company belonging to his National Reserve Corporation for eight Tu-204 aircraft owned by IFC for Red Wings. But in a letter to Vnesheconombank President Vladimir Dmitriev on February 25,8, Lebedev asks for a stake in IFC for real estate on Vnesheconombank's balance sheet, and calls the exchange for planes imposed. And the bank has already begun the exchange process, says a representative of the IFC, the deal is planned for approval at the next board of directors. Lebedev says that he is looking for other sources of financing for the transaction - state banks and leasing companies, and he does not rule out the sale of a stake in Red Wings. "" As a result of the exchange, 204% of the shares in IFC owned by the corporation will become the property of the leasing company, and Tu- 8-25,8B, leased to the carrier Red Wings, will become his property. "Lebedev was stupidly kicked out of the shareholders of the leasing company, which was the only one to order the Tu-204. The order for 100 aircraft decreased from the beginning to 204 units, and then to 44 units.
                1. 31231
                  31231 April 6 2014 00: 25
                  +4
                  Are you bothering about this Lebedev here? http://web-compromat.com/business/2183-bankira-lebedeva-snjali-v-nomere-s-devush
                  kami-video.html
                  Bgg. Honest businessman and saint olegarch.
                  1. Cetegg
                    Cetegg April 6 2014 01: 07
                    +6
                    to put it mildly))) ... I wanted to defecate on Lebedev from a high bell tower!) but Red Wings was one of the few airlines that bought the Tu-204! and due to underfunding, Tupolev Design Bureau closed many promising projects!
              3. Rakti-kali
                Rakti-kali April 6 2014 13: 16
                +1
                Quote: Geisenberg
                It was just closed using a convenient occasion.

                belay Why is this a fright ???
                In the spring of 2012, an inspection was carried out that helped to establish that Red Wings Airlines significantly exceeded the maintenance intervals for its machines; violations of the flight rules, working hours and rest of crew members, as well as maintenance procedures for four Tu-204 aircraft were revealed. The Federal Air Transport Agency, which revealed these violations, then confined itself only to recommendations on eliminating violations and deficiencies.
                On June 18, 2013, the Federal Air Transport Agency renewed the Red Wings operator’s certificate for the commercial transport of passengers and goods. On June 22, the airline resumed charter flights, and from July 12, 2013 regular flights from Moscow.
                In 2013, the airline was going to get two Tu-204s that had stopped operating Kavminvodyvia.
                Since April 5, 2014, Red Wings Airlines began operating regular flights on the route Moscow - Simferopol. Aircraft - Tu-204.
            3. The comment was deleted.
          2. Geisenberg
            Geisenberg April 5 2014 19: 05
            +9
            Quote: Rakti-Kali
            Quote: skifd
            The airliners are still Soviet-built (already few), and foreign "pelvis" of the same years of construction - the main part of the domestic fleet!

            And what, someone forbids domestic companies to buy domestic airplanes? Ah, they don’t want to !? Stop ... what does Poghosyan have to do with it?


            Moreover, ........deleted by moderator Apollothat there’s nothing to buy from Poghosyan. There are no airplanes for sale and will not be while he is at the helm.
            1. Cherdak
              Cherdak April 5 2014 22: 56
              -5
              Quote: Geisenberg
              There are no airplanes for sale and will not be while he is at the helm.

              It's ugly, Dmitry, to write so indiscriminately ...
              - What are the results of 2013 for the KLA and plans for the current year?
              - Production is developing quite intensively: a total of 128 aircraft were produced last year, of which 95 military and special aviation and 33 civilian. But if the output of military aircraft grew by 20 percent, then the civilian - by almost 50. This was largely due to a significant increase in the production of Sukhoi Superjet 100 (SSJ) aircraft. Over the year, we have achieved a twofold increase in the production of these machines, and since the start of the program, production has increased five-fold. So, in 2011 we released five SSJs, in 2012 it was already 12, and last year - 25 aircraft. This year we plan to produce 40 such aircraft, and from next year we will produce more than 50 aircraft annually. That is, starting from the middle of this year, we must reach the production rate of at least four aircraft per month.
              - To whom specifically will these liners be delivered?
              - Along with the main customers of SSJ - Aeroflot and Interjet - we should have another major operator - UTair Airlines (having ordered 24 airliners). She will begin to receive aircraft in the middle of this year. Well, in addition, we hope to further expand the operation of our new machines in Yakutia, Sky Aviation, Lao Central and Gazprom Avia, as well as with new customers.
              1. vlademaev
                vlademaev April 5 2014 23: 31
                +6
                Cherdak (1) FI Today, 22:56 PM ↑ New
                Quote: Geisenberg
                There are no airplanes for sale and will not be while he is at the helm.
                It's ugly, Dmitry, to write so indiscriminately ...
                - What are the results of 2013 for the KLA and plans for the current year?
                - Production is developing quite intensively: a total of 128 aircraft were produced last year, of which 95 military and special aviation and 33 civilian. But if the output of military aircraft increased by 20 ....

                You obviously do not catch up or pretend to be? Your superjets (or rather Pogosyanovskys) are more than half foreign in configuration, and not domestic. Hence, dependence on supplies from abroad and their policies. it THE MOST IMPORTANT THING. Secondly, the silt and carcasses have long been decorated and ready to fly, to bring to mind you need several tens of millions, then when it took a lot more to dry from scratch hundreds of billions of dollars. It THE CRIME. In addition, they are still not brought to mind these superjets and they continue to spend money on them. In my opinion, it should be clear to someone who is not at all knowledgeable in this matter that this is either a cut of money or a betrayal or irresponsibility. But to admit the first, and second, and third in high positions is impossible.
                1. Cherdak
                  Cherdak April 6 2014 11: 44
                  -1
                  Quote: vlademaev
                  You obviously do not catch up or pretend to be?

                  There are simply people who easily zombie. This happened with information on Serdyukov, and now there is a rampart on Poghosyan. Have you ever seen or read ANALYSIS or just live EMOTIONS? Any process must be considered from different angles. And then the picture ceases to be black and white ...
                  Quote: vlademaev
                  dependence on supplies from abroad and their policies.

                  So what? This is civil aviation! What kind of "sofa patreot" requires 100% domestic? And, most importantly, why? Learn from Stalin - take the best and use. You have Khrushchev's approach - to catch up and overtake, regardless of quality and costs. Poghosyan's approach is to pass international certification as quickly as possible and to occupy his own niche. This is a smart approach, as its sales show. Compare with other KB.
                  Quote: vlademaev
                  these superjets are not brought to mind and they continue to spend money on them.

                  Any new technique requires refinement and improvement. Do you have any children's ideas
                  Quote: vlademaev
                  it should be clear that this is either a cut of money or a betrayal or irresponsibility.

                  It should be clear not to you, but to the prosecutor's office and the court, that these are two different things. Have you checked Poghosian bookkeeping and are a certified auditor? Or are they only capable of spitting like a stranger like this without leaving a chair?
                  1. vlademaev
                    vlademaev April 8 2014 14: 04
                    0
                    No, Attic, you don’t understand. Nobody will give the best for superjets, this is, firstly, secondly, we have one of the best schools of civil aircraft manufacturing. Thirdly, contracts are signed for components for a superjet, and a license is not purchased, These are completely different things. We will continue to depend on them. Sludges before they got down to the superjet were almost brought to mind, but they were put to jokes and started spending billions of dollars on this box. This is generally known information. So, you are either paid by the swagger and manturov, or you don’t understand the topic yourself. A superjet may one day fly, but it will not be domestic aviation. And our scientific minds will remain no destiny. Now and so among the designers, the average age is 60 years old. The continuity of scientific generations will be interrupted. Soon there will be no one to create anything new because of such villains.
            2. Rakti-kali
              Rakti-kali April 6 2014 13: 19
              +4
              Quote: Geisenberg
              Moreover, .........deleted,

              Come on, my dear .........deleted by moderator Apollo
              Quote: Geisenberg
              that there’s nothing to buy from Poghosyan. There are no airplanes for sale and will not be while he is at the helm.

              And you compare how many new airplanes were sold under Poghosyan and how many years before him, a year of commercials since 1991. I guarantee a break in the template.
          3. Cherdak
            Cherdak April 5 2014 22: 50
            +1
            Quote: Rakti-Kali
            what does Poghosyan have to do with it?

            Despite the fact that he is a talented designer and an excellent business executive.
            And the rest have missed ... their design bureaus and production sites, and now they howl: "Give government money!"

            During the period of "rebuilding-alteration", at first they stupidly switched to pots and pans, rented out premises "vacated by conversion", and then cheaply poured their developments for small grandmothers to everyone. Here is the result.

            And all sorts of zhurnalushlyugi like the same Vovchik Leonov for small money actively stamp any crap. By the way, I won’t be surprised if Vovchik is working off his “hryvnia” again from Antonov
            1. Rakti-kali
              Rakti-kali April 5 2014 23: 33
              -2
              Quote: Cherdak
              Despite the fact that he is a talented designer and an excellent business executive. And the rest have missed ... their design bureaus and production sites, and now they howl: "Give government money!"

              So I already wrote about this above! But some "Tavarischs" have already become very familiar with the slogans "fucking all the polymers!" and "the insidious Pogo strangles poor Desde ... that is, the domestic aircraft manufacturer." It's also strange that the uncle is not accused of addiction to the blood of Christian babies in the morning ...
              1. 11111mail.ru
                11111mail.ru April 6 2014 07: 48
                0
                Quote: Rakti-Kali
                It is strange that the uncle is not accused of addiction to the blood of Christian babies

                And what is the data? Then from this place in more detail ...
                1. Rakti-kali
                  Rakti-kali April 6 2014 13: 23
                  0
                  Quote: 11111mail.ru
                  And what is the data? Then from this place in more detail ...

                  I will not argue with you, because there is nothing more stupid than proving the absence of anything far-fetched.
                  And in general, I try to adhere to the principle - "do not argue with go-about-that", because this will first lower the opponent to his level, and then without problems will crush him with experience.
              2. Cherdak
                Cherdak April 6 2014 11: 55
                +3
                Quote: Rakti-Kali
                smothers ... domestic aircraft manufacturer

                I hope that a sprout of truth will break out in this senseless dispute, and then the people are ready to disperse the UAC, to raise especially loud screamers to leading posts and ... to remain without domestic planes. Maidan for aviation.
                True, then some Serdyuk Sidorov will be to blame for everything, and then they will slide habitually towards Putin.
            2. vlademaev
              vlademaev April 5 2014 23: 34
              +8
              As a designer of military aircraft, he may be talented, but he never had anything to do with civilian aircraft and there is nothing to climb if he is a patriot and unemotional.
            3. samoletil18
              samoletil18 April 5 2014 23: 59
              +8
              Quote: Cherdak
              And all sorts of magazine hats
              And I heard bad reviews about Poghosyan from people directly connected with the aviation industry, i.e. working in this area. Yes, you can give Poghosyan a pie from the warehouse: he kept the design bureau and related production. But, having become the "main aircraft manufacturer" of the country, be so kind as to save everyone, not just your own. Or rather, fulfill your human and civic duty as a leader.
              1. Cherdak
                Cherdak April 6 2014 12: 01
                +2
                Quote: samoletil18
                save everyone, not just yours.

                But doesn’t this happen? And the Yakovlevites (corrupt like Judas), and the Tupolevites (stuck in the last century), and the Beria (though well done, that they themselves survived), and the Mikoyans (that's where the leadership must be woolly so that the fluff flew) ... the list is long.
                But they all want to get on the Christmas tree (in state flows) and not strain their brains (there is a fifth column), and most importantly - there is nothing to offer, nothing ... it remains only to throw something on the fan
            4. sleepy
              sleepy April 6 2014 13: 32
              +3
              Quote: Cherdak
              "And the rest have missed ... their design bureaus and production sites,
              and now they are howling: "Give me state money!"
              During the period of "rebuilding-alteration", at first, they stupidly switched to pots and pans, rented out premises "vacated by conversion", and then cheaply poured their developments for small grandmothers to everyone. Here is the result ... "


              How the aircraft builders lived and who brought them to the handle. And no matter - a talented business executive or an excellent business executive - they drowned the entire aircraft industry as a competitor. Nothing personal - business is business. Here is the result.

              From the book of Stepan Sulakshin. "Treason."
              The list of documents due to which the enterprises of the Soviet aircraft industry were destroyed.

              "To make a decision on full exemption for a period of five years from customs duties, dues and taxes for Boeing-750 aircraft, Douglas-DS10 aircraft imported into the territory of the Russian Federation
              in 1994 - 1995 and operated on domestic and international airlines. "(Order of the Chairman of the Government of the Russian Federation V.S. Chernomyrdin N 1489Р dated October 7, 1996)

              “Unfortunately, recently there has been an extremely dangerous tendency of thoughtless lobbying of the interests of the domestic aircraft building complex on the part of government agencies. We ask you to support the question of the inadmissibility of the serial launch of the Tu-204 aircraft on Russian air routes and the continuation of the doctrine of leasing advanced models of western aircraft. " ...
              http://kan-kendarat.livejournal.com/17641.html
              1. Cherdak
                Cherdak April 6 2014 14: 40
                +1
                Quote: sleepy
                How the aircraft builders lived and who brought them to the handle.

                But again, Poghosyan is to blame laughing
                1. sleepy
                  sleepy April 6 2014 17: 14
                  +1
                  Quote: Cherdak
                  "But again Poghosyan is to blame."


                  Someone is lobbying for foreign aircraft manufacturing, possibly M. Poghosyan
                  nothing to do with it. He just takes advantage of the situation.
                  And what remains to buy domestic campaigns in the conditions
                  lobbying for foreign aircraft?
          4. sleepy
            sleepy April 6 2014 12: 43
            +4
            Quote: Rakti-Kali
            "And what, someone forbids domestic companies to buy domestic airplanes? Oh, they don't want to !?
            Stop ... what does Poghosyan have to do with it? "


            Someone is lobbying for foreign aircraft manufacturing, possibly M. Poghosyan
            nothing to do with it. He just takes advantage of the situation.
            And what remains to buy domestic campaigns in the conditions of lobbying for foreign aircraft?

            "In November 2010, Alexander Lebedev, the owner of Red Wings, approached the government with a proposal to purchase 44 Tu-204SM aircraft. For this, the businessman demanded that the state significantly reduce the cost of the aircraft - from 1,5 billion to 1 billion rubles. support and guarantee the residual value of the aircraft After a series of meetings with suppliers of components, a compromise was reached - 1,1 billion rubles.
            UAC management then tried to disrupt the deal by inflating the price by one and a half times. "Http://www.kommersant.ru/doc/1606860

            However, the misadventures of the Tu-204CM project did not end there. Oddly enough, the Red Wings airline suddenly appeared a lot of violations. And it was after the conclusion of the purchase agreement for the Tu-204SM. In April 2012, the media announced:
            http://www.rbcdaily.ru/industry/562949983653573

            It seems that the management of Rosaviatsia, like the UAC, is participating in the company to close the Tu-204SM project. Russian officials do not like him very much. But why didn't he please them? Isn't it your ability to compete with Boeing? Obviously, Western aircraft lobbyists have plenty of ways to interest Russian officials. Moreover, the highest rank.
            1. Rakti-kali
              Rakti-kali April 6 2014 13: 50
              +2
              Quote: sleepy
              "In November 2010, Alexander Lebedev, the owner of Red Wings, approached the government with a proposal to purchase 44 Tu-204SM aircraft. For this, the businessman demanded that the state significantly reduce the cost of the aircraft - from 1,5 billion to 1 billion rubles. support and guarantee the residual value of the aircraft After a series of meetings with suppliers of components, a compromise was reached - 1,1 billion rubles.

              Those. citizen Lebedev was given 400 million rubles each. from my and other Russian citizens' pockets for each aircraft, and then Ilyushin-Finance, controlled by Lebedev, leased these aircraft to the Red Wings at the market price. Oh-he-ri-tel-but! Here is such a business woman ...
              Quote: sleepy
              Oddly enough, the Red Wings airline suddenly appeared a lot of violations. And it was after the conclusion of the purchase agreement for the Tu-204SM.

              Angry Pinocchio themselves - planes are few to buy, they also need to be exploited competently.
              Quote: sleepy
              It seems that the leadership of Rosaviatsia, like the UAC, is participating in the company to close the Tu-204SM project. Russian officials do not like him very much.

              He does not like the fact that the management of "Tu", instead of creating a competitive product, continues to extort money from the state. At the same time, no real measures are taken to improve the product.
              Quote: sleepy
              Is it not his ability to compete with Boeings?

              If he could compete on equal terms with Boeing, without the support of trousers with popular money, then all the airlines of the world would buy it, because competition and just business, as they say, is nothing personal. But it is heavier, eats more fuel, and flies to a shorter range with less load, and in this form it is not a competitor to Boeing.
              1. sleepy
                sleepy April 6 2014 17: 29
                0
                Quote: Rakti-Kali
                "That is, citizen Lebedev was given 400 million rubles from mine,
                and other Russian citizens pockets for each plane,
                and then Ilyushin-Finance, controlled by Lebedev, leased these aircraft to the Red Wings at the market price.
                Oh-he-ri-tel-but! Here is such a business woman ... "


                After a series of meetings with suppliers of components, a compromise was reached - 1,1 billion rubles. is a market economy.

                As for business, such a business was imposed on the Russian Federation by agents of the State Department, since the reign of B. Yeltsin.
                This is how the American bridges, Oryol tunnels, stadiums for FC Zenit and much more are built in St. Petersburg.
                Why be surprised - kickbacks and cuts?
                It all started with cashing.
                Claims to B. Yeltsin and his followers.
                1. Rakti-kali
                  Rakti-kali April 6 2014 18: 42
                  -2
                  Quote: sleepy
                  As for business, such a business was imposed on the Russian Federation by agents of the State Department, since the reign of B. Yeltsin.

                  And what does the "strangler of the domestic aircraft manufacturer" Pogosyan have to do with it?
                  Quote: sleepy
                  After a series of meetings with suppliers of components, a compromise was reached - 1,1 billion rubles. is a market economy.

                  Market relations - this is when the state in the person of officials does not twist Faberge suppliers to rollback from Lebedev. And what you described is not market relations, but corruption, and at the national expense. Or do you think the residual value guarantee is free or out of pocket of an uncle official? No, dear, this is from the budget.
              2. sleepy
                sleepy April 6 2014 17: 38
                +3
                Quote: Rakti-Kali
                "If he could compete on an equal footing with Boeings, without the support of public money, then all airlines in the world would buy him, because competition and just business, as they say, is nothing personal ..."


                Therefore, Boeing makes every effort to lobby its interests.
                Business is business - the sneakiest survives.

                Unlike automobiles, airplanes in the USSR corresponded fully to the international level. Hundreds of established records testify to this.
                Why there were few of them in the capitalist countries is a question that has an obvious answer.
                Because, as well as because our nuclear reactors, superior to the US in terms of efficiency and safety, do not stand in Japan,
                France or Germany.
                Yes, our aircraft always lost in fuel efficiency, but dug out in safety. Say it is not significant?
                Well, in a market economy it really is not significant, insurance companies are responsible for everything, and in the USSR a very important property was considered.
                In a planned state economy, efficiency was never measured in money, the criteria were only one - social importance and social utility. And therefore, Soviet aircraft is the optimal balance of safety and economic efficiency, with a bias on the first element.
                Ask the passenger what is more important for him - to fly whole or cheap?
                1. Rakti-kali
                  Rakti-kali April 6 2014 19: 01
                  -1
                  Quote: sleepy
                  Therefore, Boeing makes every effort to lobby its interests. Business is business - the sneakiest survives.

                  Again, what is the fault of the UAC leadership in the circumstances? They then do not sell Boeing, as well as watermelons. This is air carriers are tempted by tasty (read inexpensive) leasing from Uncle Sam or Uncle Franz.
                  Quote: sleepy
                  Unlike automobiles, airplanes in the USSR corresponded fully to the international level. Hundreds of established records testify to this.

                  Hundreds of established records show only the capabilities of a specially prepared record car.
                  Quote: sleepy
                  Unlike automobiles, airplanes in the USSR corresponded fully to the international level.

                  Until a certain time, yes, they did. In some ways, for example, if possible, operation from unequipped or poorly equipped sites, even exceeded. But from some point on, the absence of real competition in the conditions of the command-administrative economy led to the fact that the development of our airplanes began to "slow down", lagging behind the pace of development of the world. And in the end, what could be exploited on command, regardless of costs, in conditions when a choice became possible, and every penny was needed to count, began to lose in the competition. Why? Because now the goal is not just "took more, raised it higher, took it further", but also made it cheaper.
                  Quote: sleepy
                  Yes, our aircraft always lost in fuel efficiency, but dug out in safety. Say it is not significant?

                  Yes, Soviet planes crashed many times less than bourgeois ones, but bourgeois ones are operated more than normal. So with smaller absolute losses, the relative ones of Soviet / Russian aircraft, if not large, are certainly not smaller.
                  Quote: sleepy
                  In a planned state economy, efficiency was never measured in money, the criteria were only one - social significance and social utility.

                  Oh, just do not idealize! In a planned state economy, efficiency has never been measured by social significance and social utility. It was measured by the ratio of the planned production to the expenditure of allocated funds / resources. The economy - that it is capitalist, that socialist, operates according to the same rules. And the distribution of results has differences.
                  1. alicante11
                    alicante11 April 7 2014 02: 32
                    +2
                    Until a certain time - yes, they corresponded


                    Corresponded to the end. Yes, technically, they still correspond. There were problems with the "gluttony" of the aircraft. Noisiness? So this was not so long ago confused. And our new planes also meet all noise standards. Even not only the new ones, the Tu-154M seemed to match. In terms of comfort, the Il-86 was superior to foreigners, which led to high operating costs and the removal of the machine from production. But on the other hand, reliability is much higher and the cost of spare parts WERE lower in mass production.

                    So with smaller absolute losses, the relative ones of Soviet / Russian aircraft, if not large, are certainly not smaller.


                    Well, statistics would be nice. I personally look too lazy. But I bet that it will be in favor of the Soviet machines. And even the question is not only technical, that ours hammered a huge margin of safety. It's about the socialist approach to exploitation. If the amount of fuel is due according to the norms, then it was poured and was always available at the airports. If it was supposed to twist the glide path, then it was twisted, regardless of the "unproductive fuel consumption". If it is supposed to be treated with an anti-icer, then no lady who flew only in business class could never say that "if you have zero, you need to save campaign costs." And the capitalists had it all. Not as hypertrophied as we have now. But there was, and as a result, simply because of this, a large percentage of disasters.
            2. Cherdak
              Cherdak April 6 2014 14: 44
              +3
              Quote: sleepy
              Someone is lobbying for foreign aircraft manufacturing, possibly M. Poghosyan

              This is a powerful zigzag of thought:
              "If there is no water in the tap,
              Poghosyan's works " laughing

              Quote: sleepy
              the management of Rosaviation, like the UAC, participates in the company to close the Tu-204SM project

              Then Yakovlevites with their Yak-242
        3. cdrt
          cdrt April 5 2014 19: 05
          -7
          Quote: skifd
          Judging by the nickname, are you in Poghosyan’s team?

          Quote: Su24
          The author absolutely does not want to consider dynamic situation


          In what "dynamics"? Come to any airport, you will see the "dynamics" ... It is clearly negative, well, not in favor of the domestic aircraft industry .. The airliners are still Soviet-built (already few), and foreign "tubs" of the same years of construction are the main part fleet!


          Well, every week I go to airports at least twice.
          Yes, ours are few, but now there are actually more and more "hated" SSJs - so for me, it is more convenient than ANY other Soviet or Russian aircraft. Finally, they even started to take off on time, otherwise I did not fly on time before :-)

          And somehow MS-21 was forgotten ...
          Well ... An-148 is by no means a domestic plane. This is an airplane, produced in many respects on the territory of a state generally hostile to Russia, from which we just chopped off a colony. No matter how friendship is foreseen in principle.
          1. Cherdak
            Cherdak April 6 2014 12: 20
            +3
            Quote: cdrt
            And somehow MS-21 was forgotten ...

            More precisely, the Yak-242, which is designed to replace the Tu-154 and Tu-204

            I wonder how the "potters" will howl when they find out about the foreign filling recourse
            Here, from the minusers, is anyone familiar with the history, for example, the appearance of the T-34 tank, some Tupolev planes, cars and trucks in the USSR? Or still believe that they are created in sharashka?
            1. sleepy
              sleepy April 6 2014 12: 55
              +2
              Quote: Cherdak
              "... Here from the minus, someone is familiar with the history, for example, the appearance of the T-34 tank, some Tupolev aircraft,
              cars and trucks in the USSR? .. "


              History teaches that who does not care about his army,
              contains at his own expense a foreign army.
              Another story teaches that anyone who does not care about their own industry, maintains foreign industry at their own expense.
              At the same time supporting the aviation industry of the countries - members of NATO.
              In Soviet times, the aircraft industry of NATO countries was not supported.
              1. Cherdak
                Cherdak April 6 2014 14: 49
                -2
                Quote: sleepy
                History teaches ... Another story teaches ...

                This is typical verbiage.
                To begin with, everyone writes his story ...
                And what does NATO have to do with it?
                1. sleepy
                  sleepy April 6 2014 15: 06
                  +1
                  Quote: Cherdak
                  "To begin with, everyone writes their own story ...
                  And what does NATO have to do with it? "



                  Everyone writes his story, that's right.
                  But HISTORY will still put everything in its place.
                  Who does not contain his own will contain someone else's.
                  What does NATO have to do with it?
                  I would like to know the share of avionics of NATO member countries, and not just
                  "share of foreign components" in domestic aircraft.
        4. Horst78
          Horst78 April 6 2014 00: 12
          -6
          Quote: skifd
          Come to any airport, you will see the "dynamics".
          Do you live and think at ALL airports day and night? Do not you think such a comment is funny?
        5. alicante11
          alicante11 April 6 2014 14: 33
          +3
          Well, for the sake of truth, after all, you should not juggle. The flagships of the domestic aviation industry fly on quite modern B777, A380 aircraft (Transaero, Aeroflot). Another thing is that it is mainly on the Moscow air routes. Local airlines are a funeral song. B737, A320, at best - Tu-204, if you look at the "new" Far Eastern AK "Aurora". And even An-24 with plating hanging from the bulkheads in the Khabarovsk AL. At the same time, Sukhoi brings to the market exactly those domestic aircraft that are needed in local aviation - and this is good. Although, of course, for the modernization of the regional park, they are still not produced much.
          As for the rest of the manufacturers, there are two points here. First, it is necessary to produce airplanes in series, then they will be cheaper and they will be taken. After all, even the Tu-204 was taken by our AK. And this is a question for management. Need to work. Sukhoi works, while the rest are engaged in requests for salvation. Second, we live under monopoly capitalism. And, of course, one hundred Sukhoi wants to be a monopolist. Given the opportunities in lobbying, it is clear that the "drying" will be on horseback. However, this does not negate the need for other design bureaus to work and try to survive. They have potential that must be used.
          1. dmitrij.blyuz
            dmitrij.blyuz April 6 2014 15: 20
            0
            And from the time of Khristenko, Shaposhnikov, and now Pogosyan and Manturov, all the aircraft industry developments have rested in the Bose! Why does the superjet fly, but Tu and Il no. There are no questions for anyone? Is there too little laziness to turn on the brain or no brains?
            1. Rakti-kali
              Rakti-kali April 6 2014 19: 05
              0
              Quote: dmitrij.blyuz
              Why does the superjet fly, but Tu and Il-no. No one has questions?

              The Sukhovites made an airplane, and the Tupolevites made suitcases without handles - this is the answer to the question, and without any cospirological theories about the insidious "strangler of the domestic aircraft manufacturer Otel ... uh-uh ... Poghosyan."
              1. dmitrij.blyuz
                dmitrij.blyuz April 6 2014 19: 08
                +2
                About the glider, can be more specific? Whose design, who made, etc.
      3. Horst78
        Horst78 April 5 2014 17: 31
        -2
        Quote: Su24
        Another anti-Pogosian criticism with exaggeration and distortion. The author absolutely does not want to consider the situation in dynamics, and as a result, does not give any real practical recommendations.

        I agree. Criticize everyone much and who can offer something real? Our airlines buy foreign equipment, but what does Poghosyan have to do with it? Let the Duma call the general directors of airlines and ask them "Why don't you buy domestic aircraft?" This will be more honest than criticizing Poghosyan all the time. ps Waiting for cons lol
        1. skifd
          skifd April 5 2014 17: 46
          +16
          Quote: Horst78
          Our airlines buy foreign equipment, but what does Poghosyan have to do with it?


          Are you sure they are all "ours" ?? And has someone been able to offer the same "our" airlines at least something other than "Superjet" recently ?? And why ? In the article, if you have read it completely, it is indicated. And in general, this time of "effective managers" has already bothered, it is time to revise such a policy, and return to the public sector the industries that are of strategic importance for the country, and completely.
          1. Horst78
            Horst78 April 5 2014 18: 07
            0
            I agree with you
            Quote: skifd
            tired of this time of "effective managers"
            . And about
            Quote: skifd
            has someone been able to offer the same "our" airlines at least something other than "Superjet" recently ??
            there are the same TU-204/214, AN-140/148/158 which "ours" take in units and who is to blame? Poghosyan? Do you even know how aircraft are sold? Nobody now pays 100% for the equipment. There is either leasing or credit, but here there are already other realities. And into the account
            Quote: skifd
            it’s time to audit such policies, and return industries to the public sector,
            and agree and disagree. Unfortunately, we do not live in the USSR. And if, as a citizen, you want to do something on your part, that is, there are many opportunities. For example: refuse to fly on foreign equipment or make a civil request to the State Duma. Finally, WE elected these deputies. If we are sitting here on the forums and OUR deputies are spread rot, then WHO are we ourselves? You need to start with yourself, and then ask others. hi
            1. typhoon7
              typhoon7 April 5 2014 19: 04
              +11
              And you are aware that when Dima went to the States of Barak he got 50 Boeings, he has such a concept, lobbying. All Western leadership is engaged in this, but ours is not. When problems arise in the western aviation industry, the states are directly involved in these problems, and ours is not. The aviation industry is a component of state security. If in the States someone would do with their aircraft industry what our comrades did with ours, there is no need to explain what would happen to them.
              1. Mainbeam
                Mainbeam April 5 2014 19: 48
                +1
                Quote: typhoon7
                when Dima went to the States of Barak, he got 50 Boeing

                Let's not be unfounded, but immediately lay out a reference, or quote.
                1. igor.borov775
                  igor.borov775 April 5 2014 21: 57
                  +10
                  What DAMS are talking about at the congress now that it’s amazing to wonder how it turns out that it takes months or years to get all sorts of approvals. , There are 25 billion who have washed up, Karaulov in his program clearly showed what kind of cat is sitting there, A major specialist, But there are not enough and not enough money for science, something would not be enough, But you can keep quiet about the aircraft industry Even Rogozin cannot break through a team of effective ministers working in sweat plows, In Ukraine, the oligarchs all blamed but the authorities in their farts kept us different oligarchs do not climb into structures there is a solid company, it clearly follows the same line, What is the difference, but the size of the country saves and so It’s been commanded and managed for a long time, We don’t have an Old Man because we live badly, I noticed for a long time our structures don’t really like Minsk, they know that it’s not creeping through with us,
            2. cdrt
              cdrt April 5 2014 19: 08
              +8
              Quote: Horst78
              AN-140/148/158


              How much is the Ukrainian equipment there?
              Our say?
              Where are you from? laughing

              Here Tu-204 - ours, IL-76 - ours, IL-114/112 if they start to release, it will be ours. And the rest, as it were, are not very ours
              1. Horst78
                Horst78 April 5 2014 20: 14
                +4
                Quote: cdrt
                Where are you from? laughing

                From Siberia, the city of Strezhevoy could have been seen in PM (but they didn’t write about it from where).
                What plane is produced 100% from parts of your country? The Brazilian Embraer exports fuselages and engines but this does not stop Brazilians from being proud that they have their own aviation production. What do you know about the production chain? Are you aware that our aircraft carrier cruiser elevators were made in Tashkent?
                1. igor.borov775
                  igor.borov775 April 5 2014 22: 14
                  +6
                  I am aware of the fact that our development was carried out by Uzbekistan and Uzbekistan, and for your information, it was Uzbekistan that made a lot of deliveries to the fleet, It so happened that this republic could be proud of the fleet of the country that it was, And the torpedoes also made a development and testing center in the Middle Asia was that from this, There is nothing to drive the blizzard. Each republic made a feasible contribution to the country's armed forces,
                2. typhoon7
                  typhoon7 April 5 2014 22: 27
                  +4
                  What do you compare Brazil and Russia, as a result of recent events, we are starting to strangle us with sanctions from those we buy avionics from our avionics, our military aviation also partially depends on their details. Oxygen is shut off, and we are completely dependent on them. It does not bother you. In other cases, the state may pull up civil aviation for military purposes, and there are only Airbuses and Boeings and no spare parts, but bookmarks are also possible. In Brazil, if she strongly jerks against the west, he will block her oxygen and in ten, fifteen years she will roll back to the Stone Age for the same reason, depending on the west in these matters. Russia is a power and that’s why we will always be hooked with the West whether we want it or not. Also, Brazil had no options, it started from scratch, and by the way, we had such an aviation industry that only the states could afford and we destroyed it all. For what? For the sake of the West to tell us well done, do you have democracy? And now we are sitting with a broken trough, well, if this crap does not happen again with the medium-haul one.
                3. Cherdak
                  Cherdak April 5 2014 23: 07
                  +1
                  Quote: Horst78
                  What plane is 100% produced?

                  This is more obvious if we compare the drying with the Boeing (although they bashfully about Russia omitted the information).
                  Maybe someone will understand what is the international division of labor for civil engineering recourse
                  1. Cherdak
                    Cherdak April 6 2014 12: 34
                    +2
                    This is more obvious.
                    Whose Boeing? American or what?
                    1. dmitrij.blyuz
                      dmitrij.blyuz April 6 2014 17: 35
                      +1
                      Attic! I wanted to minus, but my hand trembled. I reached for a pivot drink, stuck a plus sign. This prospectus, well, you just don’t respect! Where did you dig it? It’s not clear why, I’ll answer: the Russian component of the Boeing is not visible. And there are almost 30% of ours in the airframe. The landing gear is the same. Calculation of the strength of the glider, ours did and is doing. In fact, in the drawings about 40% and in our components about 3%, the liner is not quite theirs! KB (a glider branch) of a Boeing is in Moscow somewhere. It is better to ask Alex-241 and SSI. They are definitely in the know!
                4. cdrt
                  cdrt April 6 2014 21: 13
                  0
                  Quote: Horst78
                  Quote: cdrt
                  Where are you from? laughing

                  From Siberia, the city of Strezhevoy could have been seen in PM (but they didn’t write about it from where).
                  What plane is produced 100% from parts of your country? The Brazilian Embraer exports fuselages and engines but this does not stop Brazilians from being proud that they have their own aviation production. What do you know about the production chain? Are you aware that our aircraft carrier cruiser elevators were made in Tashkent?


                  About where will this joke was laughing
                  For some reason, I can’t completely update the profile, it constantly falls into error.
                  Sam - Moscow.
                  I think I’m pretty good at production chains because I’ve been connected with them for 18 years already :-)
                  And the times of the USSR with the current then there is nothing to compare.
                  Then - that Tashkent, that Saratov was, and now - other states with not the fact that friendly politics
              2. Old_kapitan
                Old_kapitan April 5 2014 21: 39
                +9
                Here is the Tu-204 - ours, IL-76 - ours, IL-114 / 112 if they start to release, it will be ours.
                That you have clarified well - IF they will ...
                Shl. It's not entirely clear why I, a Ukrainian, are more worried about the Russian aviation industry than the Russians themselves? Is it not clear that "effective management" of an "effective manager" is built on one thing - the use of official position? And is it really not clear that this is bad? Bad for anyone.
              3. nov_tech.vrn
                nov_tech.vrn April 5 2014 22: 21
                +2
                Horst78
                AN-140/148/158 - 70-80 percent of Russian components, do not forget that the same engines or engine nacelles are not without our suppliers
                1. Horst78
                  Horst78 April 5 2014 22: 39
                  -1
                  Quote: nov_tech.vrn
                  Russian components 70-80 percent,

                  So I about it hi and then they say that 80% of imports. Why did they run into the SSJ100? There are other planes. The same AP-148 is a direct competitor to the SSJ100.
                  1. Cherdak
                    Cherdak April 6 2014 12: 04
                    +1
                    Quote: Horst78
                    The same AP-148 is a direct competitor to the SSJ100.

                    Let Antonov prove that he is a competitor. So far, it is only with a Russian order that even Cuban units live for a Russian loan.
                  2. dmitrij.blyuz
                    dmitrij.blyuz April 6 2014 18: 47
                    +1
                    Glory! hi Superjet is untouchable! wassat A lot of the "blah blah" faction is here in the subject! Do not climb there. Minus ogrebete-mama do not cry! Together with me! laughing Manturo-Pogosyanovsky’s special prices are immeasurable! See my minuses!
                2. Cherdak
                  Cherdak April 6 2014 12: 30
                  +2
                  Quote: nov_tech.vrn
                  AN-140/148/158 - 70-80 percent of Russian components, do not forget that the same engines or engine nacelles are not without our suppliers


                  Well, where did you find 70-80% of Russian components? negative
            3. sleepy
              sleepy April 6 2014 13: 05
              +1
              Quote: Horst78
              "Do you even know how aircraft are sold?
              No one now pays 100% for equipment. There is either leasing or credit,
              but here there are already other realities ... "



              For a long time, everyone is aware of what is being leased or for interest on the price.

              The contract for 44 Tu-204SM between IFC and Red Wings was estimated at $ 1,5 billion
              и The initial one-time contribution was 10%.
              Under the terms of the agreement, the transaction was to be subsequently
              financed by credit resources of VEB.
              However, lobbying for leasing Boeing is paying off.
              “The Russian aviation industry may lose its largest client, Red Wings. The Federal Air Transport Agency is unhappy with the state of affairs in the airline controlled by businessman Alexander Lebedev and threatens to suspend its activities.
              The entrepreneur himself considers the claims against the carrier far-fetched ... "
              http://www.rbcdaily.ru/industry/562949983653573
          2. Rakti-kali
            Rakti-kali April 5 2014 18: 07
            -9
            Quote: skifd
            And someone was able to offer the same "our" airlines lately something other than "Superjet" ??

            Stop! But what about the famous "Yaroslavna's lament" about the "masterpieces" from the Tu company, vilely ruined by the insidious black ... uh-uh ... Poghosyan?
            1. Geisenberg
              Geisenberg April 5 2014 19: 14
              +6
              Quote: Rakti-Kali
              Quote: skifd
              And someone was able to offer the same "our" airlines lately something other than "Superjet" ??

              Stop! But what about the famous "Yaroslavna's lament" about the "masterpieces" from the Tu company, vilely ruined by the insidious black ... uh-uh ... Poghosyan?


              Well there he is. You whine, here you are and cry. ... planes just don't see something ...
              1. Rakti-kali
                Rakti-kali April 6 2014 12: 59
                0
                Quote: Geisenberg
                But you

                Demetris, my brother and I did not drink and did not shed blood together, I do not consider you a friend, and I did not allow you to switch to "you", so we will stay on "you".
                Quote: Geisenberg
                here you are and cry. ...

                And so I constantly observe this "cry of Yaroslavna" from adherents of a religion called "fucking-upsepolymers". It's just that some naive people contradict themselves, stating that "Tu" had "well, finally cool" new airplanes almost from rebuilding, and immediately declare that our airlines do not fly these "well, finally cool" airplanes, while blaming in the current situation of Poghosyan. To the question - "how could Poghosyan influence the situation from 1991 to 2008, and why the management of the companies that developed and produced these" well, finally cool "pepelats did not touch a finger to bring them to mind, and then to a series, so that our airlines can buy them? " - the indistinct moaning continues again about "fucking the polymers", without any facts with arguments like, "the evil podpin-dosnik Poghosyan is to blame for everything, because he is Armenian /" effective manager "/ ... (underline or add the necessary)".
                Quote: Geisenberg
                planes just do not see something ...

                Over the past 5-6 years, the UAC has produced more GA aircraft than all manufacturers of the former USSR for the period from 1991 to 2008. What miracles are you still waiting for? Well, it is impossible in 5 years to restore and expand what has been falling apart for 17 years.
                1. sleepy
                  sleepy April 6 2014 13: 18
                  +1
                  Quote: Rakti-Kali
                  "It's just that some naive people contradict themselves, stating that Tu had" well, finally cool "new airplanes almost from rebuilding, and immediately declare that our airlines do not fly on these" well, finally cool "airplanes, while accusing Poghosyan of the current situation ... ... the indistinct moaning continues again about "fucking the polymers", without any facts with arguments like, "the evil Poghosyan is to blame for everything"


                  M. Poghosyan has nothing to do with it.
                  His designers failed. developers, consultants ...
                  consultants from Boeing.
                  And who invited them, agents of the State Department?

                  "... Despite the veil of corporate secrecy around the 'super aircraft', the media got information that the car initially had problems with the skin and with the airframe in general. The fact is that at the end of the 20th century, frames for airliners were bent from sheet metal ...
                  Although laborious, it is reliable.
                  On SSJ, Boeing consultants advised putting milled ribs. Moreover, the Yankees themselves did not do that ...
                  As a result, in order to maintain overall strength, the Superjet sheathing had to be made thicker, refusing chemical milling. In this case, the weight of the machine inevitably had to increase.
                  Most likely, according to the glider and the choice of engine power, a fatal mistake was made by the designers at the stage of the preliminary design - they did not take into account the growth trend of the mass of the airframe and did not provide for a power reserve. This led to an excessive consumption of fuel, a decrease in the flight range and a deterioration of take-off and landing performance when using the SaM 146 engine. As for the general professional level of the specialists who created the Superjet, this is a separate issue. A rather typical illustration is the scandal at KnAAPO with 70 (!) Fake diplomas from engineers working on this machine.
                  So where were the American consultants looking? .. "
                  http://www.aex.ru/docs/3/2010/9/19/1158/
                  1. Rakti-kali
                    Rakti-kali April 6 2014 14: 19
                    0
                    Thank you, neighing.
                    Quote: sleepy
                    The fact is that at the end of the 20th century, frames for airliners bent from sheet metal. Although laborious, it is reliable. On SSJ, Boeing consultants advised putting milled ribs. Moreover, the Yankees themselves did not do that ...

                    This is a masterpiece! Now I will tell everyone that the parts bent by the press turn out to be more reliable than the milled ones.
                    Sorry I couldn’t read further - laughter parses.
                  2. evil hamster
                    evil hamster April 6 2014 15: 27
                    +2
                    You know, but in the text you cited, the nonsense is written, which in general is not surprising for the hive. The fact is that there is no good and bad technical process, but there is an optimal and not optimal from the technological and economic points of view. If the designers and technologists of the GSS decided to apply some kind of technical process, it means that they had good reason, this is first.
                    Secondly: the frame, in the general case, is a rather complex curved frame with different thicknesses of the elements and, as a rule, many stiffeners. So it is difficult to "bend from sheet metal" frames, except in the most primitive cases. You can rivet from bent elements - yes, but to argue for the advantage in reliability of riveted over solid milled - this somehow does not work.
                    And thirdly: aircraft manufacturers all over the world are trying to make the most highly loaded elements of the set either completely milled or forged with fur processing, they don’t know that this is not reliable. That they do not read AEX from them ...
                    1. sleepy
                      sleepy April 6 2014 17: 56
                      +1
                      Quote: evil hamster
                      "And thirdly: aircraft manufacturers all over the world try to make the most heavily loaded elements of the set either completely milled or forged with fur processing, they do not know that this is not reliable."


                      It turns out that aircraft manufacturers in the USSR were mistaken when frames were bent
                      for sheet metal airliners, considering that although laborious,
                      but reliable.
                      Thanks to the Boeing consultants who advised us to put milled ribs on the SSJ.
                      Now everyone needs to be united and do it right,
                      if anyone else does the old fashioned way.
                      We will wait for consultants in other sectors and do
                      as they say.
                      1. evil hamster
                        evil hamster April 6 2014 20: 44
                        0
                        Dear, I will not prove to you the obvious things, just a couple of pictures from neta maybe they will lead you to think.
                        Surge frame riveted from stamping sheet and milled parts
                        Surge milled frame.

                        IL76-90A pay attention to power frames in the area of ​​openings and center section
                        Mig29 power center section frame.

                        And do not blame the Soviet designers, they knew their job. But I repeat, there is no right process, there is the right process for this part, from this alloy, in this particular plant and for the specifically planned production.
            2. oldstaryi
              oldstaryi April 5 2014 22: 37
              +4
              Stop! But what about the famous "lament of Yaroslavna" about those vilely ruined by the insidious black ... uh-uh ... Poghosyan ...


              Read Arguments of the Week regularly and you will be happy!
              1. Rakti-kali
                Rakti-kali April 6 2014 13: 25
                -1
                Quote: oldstaryi
                Read Arguments of the Week regularly and you will be happy!

                Why not "Speed-info"? The level of competence is one.
                1. dmitrij.blyuz
                  dmitrij.blyuz April 6 2014 13: 53
                  -1
                  You are mistaken. AN-sensible source. Only the "Pogosyanists" are indignant! laughing
                  1. dmitrij.blyuz
                    dmitrij.blyuz April 6 2014 15: 00
                    0
                    In plus to minus-And Manturovtsy too! Do not cough, special!
        2. Sergh
          Sergh April 5 2014 18: 07
          +15
          Quote: Su24
          Another anti-Poghosian criticism with exaggeration

          What the hell are the exaggerations and distortions, Poghosyan even in our Novosibirsk Chkalovsky plant pushed the production of the Su-34s in the shops and additionally stuck his Jets-100. Here it is necessary to expand the area for 34-ok, and he takes the last for his homna. Already got this Poghosyan, in his neck, in the neck.
          1. I do not care
            I do not care April 5 2014 19: 11
            +4
            Quote: Sergh
            homna

            through B laughing
          2. weaver85
            weaver85 April 5 2014 19: 44
            +7
            Poghosyan needs grandmas involved in jet support, beat off, show the result. You can ask how much the state of finance has poured into our non-Russian plane, you would like to compare it with the Olympics.
          3. Horst78
            Horst78 April 5 2014 20: 57
            +4
            And at your Our Novosibirsk Chkalovsky plant how many planes were made during the Soviet era and how many are now ordered by defense? Have additional jobs from the SSJ100 appeared or not? Do not forget to argue with such criteria. hi
          4. 225chay
            225chay April 5 2014 23: 13
            +1
            Quote: Sergh
            Already got this Poghosyan, in his neck, in the neck.


            When KAMAZ was driven by Harutyunyan, the one that killed a bus with people in the suburbs (almost two dozen victims), then "all Armenia", including that located on the territory of Russia, raised a howl that he was a poor fellow and not to blame ... but Kamaz was to blame because the brakes failed and the mythical owner of the transport, whom Hrachya Harutyunyan did not want to call "kicked out" with a show-off memory ...

            That's also with Pagasyan, all the people from Ararat gather from everywhere and start the defense in defense
            1. sleepy
              sleepy April 6 2014 13: 46
              +2
              Quote: 225chay
              "This is the same with M. Poghosyan, all immigrants from Ararat gather from everywhere and start in his defense."


              And here come from Armenia? Everything is much simpler.
              From the Internet.
              "A real information war is being waged around the SSJ project ...
              ... As it turned out, the strongest propaganda of the "super-aircraft" project is being conducted at numerous aviation forums.
              First of all, of course, on the forum of the official website of the Sukhoi Design Bureau.
              Moreover, a special database "SSJ-100: reality
              against speculation ", http://superjet.wikidot.com/
              which compiles the argumentation of SSJ supporters against the rather obvious arguments of its opponents.
              A rather large team of SCAC specialists takes part in writing both the materials of this "knowledge" base and in discussions on Internet forums. Behind the well-coordinated and massive actions of this team, you can easily notice the organizational basis - apparently in the large financial flows of Sukhoi's company there is a considerable share allocated for advertising, including through the Internet. Moreover, this advertisement does not exclude the methods of "black PR" and other dirtiest information technologies used in social networks.
              And here it is not the domestic roots of such methods that are visible - the main specialists in such forms of information warfare are
              in another country
              . "
              1. Rakti-kali
                Rakti-kali April 6 2014 14: 38
                0
                Quote: sleepy
                A rather large team of SCAC specialists takes part in writing both the materials of this "knowledge" base and in discussions on Internet forums.

                Urgently starting to call Poghosyan! And then! It turns out I also have to pay for my opinion! Or even take the staff ... fellow laughing
                1. sleepy
                  sleepy April 6 2014 18: 01
                  +2
                  Quote: Rakti-Kali
                  "I am urgently starting to call Poghosyan! Otherwise! It turns out that they have to pay me for my opinion! Or even take them to the staff ..."


                  Why to call? There is the Internet.
              2. Berxen
                Berxen April 7 2014 01: 48
                0
                Quote: sleepy
                And here come from Armenia? Everything is much simpler.
                From the Internet.
                "A real information war is being waged around the SSJ project ...
                ... As it turned out, the strongest propaganda of the "super-aircraft" project is being conducted at numerous aviation forums.


                Listen, well, that’s already prohibitive. This site was created as a RESPONSE to the tubs of slops poured onto the CSW at all aviation forums in the country. Paradox - the quite well-sold plane of the Russian Federation is desperately spreading rot itself by the Russians themselves. They do not care that it was designed in Russia, which means that the Russian designers got experience and money. They do not care that it is produced in the Russian Federation - Russian workers receive a salary. They are not familiar with reading that many spare parts declared import on numerous demotivators and tables are actually produced by the Russian aviation industry. The 334th and Boguslaev are not enough for happiness.
                1. alicante11
                  alicante11 April 7 2014 02: 42
                  0
                  This is a market that always strives for monopoly. The dry ones advertise themselves and they rake others for themselves, the rest, who are worse with marketing, scream like March cats that dry rot is on them. And those are right and others. But what can you do, the market is not comrade. Stalin, who handed out "earrings to all the sisters." Then whoever got up first got his slippers. And it was Poghosyan who got up first. So it will end up with all the other design bureaus picking up a dry holding, like KNAAPO in its time. And then we will have ILs with carcasses on domestic and foreign air routes and MIGs of the 5th generation. Of course, the monopolist will have to pay much more for all this happiness. But, the law of the market. For that fought for it and ran. One hope is that the state can take the monopolist for the Faberge too. If he wants, of course.
        3. Geisenberg
          Geisenberg April 5 2014 19: 13
          +10
          Quote: Horst78
          I agree. Criticize all the arrogance and something real who can offer?


          I can for example. In short, as Old Man Makhno used to say, we are closing the road to foreign suppliers on the Russian air transportation market and that’s it. Close both the procurement of aircraft and the provision of transportation services within the country. Leave only after-sales service. Redirect subsidies to companies with purely Russian capital. In a year, demand for Russian aircraft will go, a little later, there will be an offer for low-cost domestic serial passenger aircraft.
          1. Mainbeam
            Mainbeam April 5 2014 19: 57
            +2
            Quote: Geisenberg
            Close and purchasing aircraft

            Nooooo. Then there will be no competition. Domestic aircraft industry, like the domestic auto industry, does not want to increase passenger comfort.

            I fly very few on airplanes, but it so happened that almost every time on a different type of airplane. And domestic balalaikas cannot be compared with import ones. About jet 100 and 204 I do not speak, did not fly. Maybe something has changed for the better? And it won’t even change. I do not agree to ride a fret viburnum, the Chinese are already doing better cars!

            I am for the domestic aviation industry. But, damn it, let's go meet the passengers with leaps and bounds so that it does not hurt ...
            1. 26rus
              26rus April 5 2014 21: 38
              +4
              Quote: MainBeam
              And domestic balalaikas cannot be compared with import ones.

              I would not be so categorical. Recently I had a chance to fly a B-737. Impressions ....... Compared to this "balalaika", the carcass is just an example of comfort.
              1. Mainbeam
                Mainbeam April 5 2014 22: 02
                +1
                Who is so lucky. We once took off on the An-24 after an additional correction in Samara. You sit on a swing - wings above, under the porthole emptiness - your eyes have nothing to lean on. I see how the flaps work, the landing gear retracts. Interesting. We are sitting on the starboard side. We gain height. Full fuel tanks. A flash from the right engine, the rumble changed, the plane skidded off. I think - a scribe.

                My girl did not look through the window, felt something was wrong, asks: "What happened?" And I think: "I can't do anything like that." I say: "Everything is fine, maybe we got into turbulence." And the day is sunny, summer, it's so good to live! I don't give a look, only palms, bitches, sweat, can't be torn from trousers. Summer, white trousers, specific prints ...

                The stewardess ran and looked through the portholes on the right. The pilot got out of the cockpit and went to the tail of the plane. My girl asks: "What's going on?" And me: "Like, maybe the pilot wanted to push." Why bother people, but I myself think that the tanks are full. The co-pilot ran into the tail. And me: "Well, you never know ..." After 5-10 minutes the engine was started, the altitude continued to gain. Above the clouds in general beauty!

                And I never fell asleep in flight. Nah ...

                1. oldstaryi
                  oldstaryi April 5 2014 22: 40
                  +3
                  they just forgot to add that the plane was about 35 years old from the moment it was released! Hence the problems ...
                  1. Mainbeam
                    Mainbeam April 6 2014 06: 37
                    0
                    Maybe I flew all the planes of our and foreign 35 years ago? Maybe more, maybe less. The best experience from the Bombardier CRJ-200. Like a bus ride: no cracking, no buzzing, no shaking. And he, I think, is not new. And the worst ones are not even from An-24, but from Yak-42. I’ll say again that I didn’t fly on 100 and Tu-204 jets. So I say to whom how lucky.
                    1. oldstaryi
                      oldstaryi April 6 2014 12: 27
                      +1
                      Maybe I flew all the planes of our and foreign 35 years ago? Maybe more, maybe less. The best experience from the Bombardier CRJ-200. Like a bus ride: no cracking, no buzzing, no shaking. And he, I think, is not new. And the worst - not even from the An-24, but from the Yak-42. Once again I will say that I did not fly on jets-100 and tu-204. So I say to whom how lucky.


                      You see what the problem is, in the USSR ALL civilian aircraft are failed military. Hence the problems with comfort. The exception is IL-86!
                      We must give the opportunity to make carcasses, ilya, yaki ours and everything will be fine! And the locomotive of the economy will accelerate! hi
                      1. Rakti-kali
                        Rakti-kali April 6 2014 14: 21
                        -1
                        Quote: oldstaryi
                        You see what the problem is, in the USSR ALL civilian aircraft are failed military.

                        It touched ... It turns out the Yak-40, Yak-42, Tu-154, Tu-134, Il-62 are military aircraft, just a little unhappy ...
                2. 26rus
                  26rus April 5 2014 22: 44
                  +4
                  I'm not talking about that a bit. I haven't flown for a long time, because there were expectations - well, a foreign car after all ... But it turned out ... Salon - as if three Ikarus of thirty were blinded together. The chairs are narrow, uncomfortable, there is nowhere to put your legs. And a persistent plastic smell. And how it rattled during takeoff and landing. Neither Tu nor Il were not so "different".
                3. Irokez
                  Irokez April 5 2014 22: 49
                  +2
                  In Soviet times, more than once flew on the AN-24.
                  Yes, the plane compared to cars like a Cossack in front of the Lada. But this is already the last century and right now they are becoming less and less and will soon cease to exploit completely.
            2. samoletil18
              samoletil18 April 6 2014 00: 38
              +4
              Quote: MainBeam
              Nooooo. Then there will be no competition. Domestic aircraft industry, like the domestic auto industry, does not want to increase passenger comfort
              Come on! Before the destruction of the "Red Wings" flew them on board to Moscow from Ekb. I didn’t understand until the crew was presented on an internal broadcast that it was a Tu-204. The chairs (Economy class!) Seemed even more comfortable, I did not find any difference in the noise for the worse. In addition to competition, there are regulations, protocols and other standards that determine operational characteristics. The Il-18 went well abroad not only in the CMEA, but who competed with him?
              The bottleneck in the aviation industry is engine building. The rest, at the very least, can be adjusted painlessly enough if you remove the "effective managers", but who is against licensed engine production? If no other options are left for a foreign manufacturer, they themselves will line up for a tender, because this is money.
              PS / However, sanctions, and mattresses with Perm do not dump something.
              1. Berxen
                Berxen April 7 2014 01: 52
                0
                Quote: samoletil18
                The biggest bottleneck in the aviation industry is engine building. The rest, at the very least, can be adjusted painlessly enough if you remove the "effective managers"


                While Saturn and Salut are quite tolerably coping with the engines, can the problem of the godless lag of the domestic electronic base be quickly and painlessly solved? And for some reason, Saturn is pumping millions into the development of processors, operational amplifiers and power transistors.
            3. sleepy
              sleepy April 6 2014 13: 57
              +2
              Quote: MainBeam
              "The domestic aircraft industry, like the domestic auto industry, does not want to improve the comfort for passengers."


              This is news - domestic aircraft industry does not want to increase comfort ...
              It can be much simpler - no money and save on comfort,
              Trying not to reduce reliability.

              But foreign aircraft manufacturers save on reliability.

              From the Internet.
              “When we flew in Iran, our Tupolev ensured the regularity of flights twice as high as Boeings and Airbuses. It was impossible to get tickets for our flights, because as soon as the Shuravi guaranteed getting to the destination airport exactly on schedule. In airports with difficult terrain and schemes of calls, our swallow furnished any western rattlesnake. Fuel in Iran is cheap, and therefore no one considered the consumption there as an important indicator. Regularity and serviceability were more important. I will say a simple thing, being in isolation from the service base and having only two technicians, we ensured 100% serviceability of the materiel. No Boeing could provide such a thing. Because their logistics is perfect, in view of the fact that bourgeois planes often break down. "

              As for the general professional level of the specialists who created the Superjet, this is a separate topic. A typical illustration is the scandal at KnAAPO with 70 (!) Fake diplomas from the engineers working on this machine. So where did the American consultants look? .. "
              http://www.aex.ru/docs/3/2010/9/19/1158/
          2. Horst78
            Horst78 April 5 2014 21: 27
            +1
            Thanks for the answer hi But
            Quote: Geisenberg
            as Old Man Makhno used to say

            This is the point. You remembered Makhno, but I remember the film "The Sixth" where it was said "We live in the state, not in a gang"
          3. igor.borov775
            igor.borov775 April 5 2014 22: 28
            +2
            What are you saying that our ministers will start to hurt right away, Nifiga suggested then you have to roll up your hands and work for real, And there they will start and demand products, you don’t know how to do this, you need to go through the full production cycle And now it’s not accepted, He’s The Academy of Management and it doesn’t matter that he doesn’t know anything about production, he can manage it, he’s a manager, And the rest doesn’t concern him, How many of them are pushed around there can’t be counted, Therefore, he’s a manager as well, Taburetkin is all right,
          4. Rakti-kali
            Rakti-kali April 6 2014 13: 27
            0
            Quote: Geisenberg
            we close the way for foreign suppliers to the Russian air transportation market and all

            A foreign supplier will close its market, and then domestic carriers and manufacturers will definitely have "everything", from the word "3,14 zdets".
        4. andrewvlg
          andrewvlg April 5 2014 20: 24
          +3
          Quote: Horst78
          announced Criticize all the arrogance and something real who can offer?

          That's it. When the "dashing" times came, many manufacturers "did not come out". And those who were able to survive, it was worth a lot. The leaders were dying from a heart attack, from a gangster's bullet, they fired from despair. But some managed to "pull out" their production. And now, when the state has money for the state defense order, such custom-made articles appear, accusing the "survivors" of "surviving." You guys, are you completely blind? !! I am Russian, but if Pogasyan "pulled out" his enterprise in the "dashing" years, and the rest "pissed him off", why should he be bullied for that ?! The same for the T-90. They were able to, although they were dying, but they "pulled out" production. Where is the T64, where is the T-80? Are they writing articles? Have you won at least one tender (except Thailand) for the supply? Being leading KB in the USSR?
          1. Irokez
            Irokez April 5 2014 22: 57
            +5
            Yes, no one belittles Poghosyan's merits, but maybe they are too high or biased.
            What he pulled out was not purely his merit, but many people trying to survive somehow, but all the air companies fell down at the time, you yourself know who from behind the hill and did not allow to turn around.
            Right now, Russia is intensely purchasing weapons, and a little later I feel that aviation will begin to be purchased for the citizen, because at this time, when they clawed over new interests in geopolitics, they would have to do their own thing as a counterweight to survive.
            Even if building transport workers is excellent (jobs and production support), and then you can quickly release a citizen.
        5. Cherdak
          Cherdak April 5 2014 22: 59
          +6
          Quote: Horst78
          Waiting for cons

          Hold on, Vyacheslav!
          Not everyone is fooled by "black PR" - you will have pluses too ...
          Most Ukrainians are minus, but they are supposed to passport.

          And the plane is really good ...
      4. 77bob1973
        77bob1973 April 5 2014 18: 39
        +5
        I live 700 meters from Pulkovo Airport, what the SSJ-100 looks like - I haven’t seen it in my eyes! Four years have passed since the start of construction of this unit, it is time to take stock, disappointing results.
        1. lelikas
          lelikas April 5 2014 21: 58
          +7
          Quote: 77bob1973
          I live 700 meters from Pulkovo Airport, what the SSJ-100 looks like - I haven’t seen it in my eyes! Four years have passed since the start of construction of this unit, it is time to take stock, disappointing results.

          This is from me :).
          1. Irokez
            Irokez April 5 2014 23: 00
            0
            One military technician said about this Jet that the engines will swallow dust very low and there will be debris from the ground, but this is not good for the engine.
            1. Horst78
              Horst78 April 6 2014 00: 42
              +1
              Quote: Irokez
              One military technician said

              Funny said lol but what about
              Quote: Irokez
              then the engines will swallow dust and debris from the ground very low

              therefore, the ANs have higher engines. And at the expense of dust, this is a complaint to the airport support service. Who says SSJ100 is designed for unpaved strips?
      5. Geisenberg
        Geisenberg April 5 2014 19: 04
        +8
        Quote: Su24
        Another anti-Poghosyan criticism with exaggerations and distortions. The author absolutely does not want to consider the situation in dynamics, and as a result, does not give any real practical recommendations. Just an emotional cry from the heart.


        Well, that is, there is no doubt that many are not happy with him? But is this not an indicator that the person is busy in the wrong business and has taken someone else's place? It remains only to clearly determine whether it harms the country by stupidity or greed, or all the same with intent for thirty from across the ocean.
        1. Mainbeam
          Mainbeam April 5 2014 20: 01
          +3
          Quote: Geisenberg
          whether he harms the country by stupidity or greed or all the same with intent for thirty

          Yes, you can always divide pests into two categories: either fagot or dunce.
          But it is necessary to answer for wrecking before the fatherland.
          As they say, not knowing the law does not exempt from liability.
        2. 225chay
          225chay April 5 2014 23: 21
          +3
          Quote: Geisenberg
          It remains only to clearly determine whether it harms the country by stupidity or greed, or all the same with intent for thirty from across the ocean.

          Really similar! Or maybe both at once, but the greed for money among these comrades prevails
      6. weaver85
        weaver85 April 5 2014 19: 10
        +9
        Domestically, you can produce your aircraft from your own components (engines, materials, avionics). We can build your own medium-range airliners. And the author points out that the actual monopoly Poghosyan in the aviation market is strangling the domestic aviation industry. Dynamics in financial flows and orders, which are organized in such a way that the domestic school of aircraft and engine-building is facing the fact of extinction. Maybe you will show "dynamics" without emotion? Could you explain why Khristenko-Manturov-Poghosyan act as agents of influence for foreign corporations? Without jerking?
        1. oldstaryi
          oldstaryi April 5 2014 22: 42
          +2
          Read in "Arguments of the Week". There they WRITTENLY wrote about the pogos!
        2. sleepy
          sleepy April 6 2014 14: 02
          +2
          SSJ is pulling off the already not very rich financing of the industry for itself, depriving other projects of development opportunities. In electronics there is such a concept - "shunt". It diverts part of the current bypassing the section of the electrical circuit under consideration. This is useful if some kind of "parasitic" currents occur.
          There is such a concept in medicine - it removes excess blood.
          I believe that it is time to introduce such a concept in finance as well - this is the diversion of "extra" money for some completely useless projects.
          If there is a goal to limit the development of any branch of the economy ..
          .
          There is a suspicion that the RRJ project was initiated from abroad precisely for this. Although the project itself could have been born in the minds of Sukhoi Design Bureau specialists,
          but give it a go, secure funding and full state support
          allowed "cooperation" with Boeing.
          Boeing would not do this if he did not see for himself the benefits.
      7. Bobxnumx
        Bobxnumx April 5 2014 19: 37
        +5
        But Spurget is, by and large, a failed project. There are few aircraft produced, but there are enough problems with them.
        1. bomg.77
          bomg.77 April 5 2014 19: 45
          +3
          Which planes were produced more in Russia.? And were there such?
        2. Berxen
          Berxen April 7 2014 01: 58
          0
          Quote: Bob0859
          But Spurget is, by and large, a failed project. There are few aircraft produced, but there are enough problems with them.


          What planet are you from? In 2013, the Superjet took 20% of the regional market. 45 aircraft in 5 years - this is the most massive civilian aircraft since the union! Where did you get such washed ones?
      8. user1212
        user1212 April 5 2014 21: 00
        +1
        Quote: Su24
        Another anti-Poghosyan criticism with exaggerations and distortions. The author absolutely does not want to consider the situation in dynamics, and as a result, does not give any real practical recommendations. Just an emotional cry from the heart.

        Found guilty of all troubles. Poghosyan is to blame for everything.
        Can the minusculeers answer a couple of questions? All our design bureaus fell apart in the 90s. Why is this the fault of the person who at that time was just the first deputy gene. Designer KB Sukhoi? And here are a couple of questions that I would like to get an answer to:
        Who handed over the building of a supermarket to the building of Yakovlev Design Bureau?
        Who passed under the hotel and offices of the building of the Tupolev Design Bureau? Who privatized the test base of KB and turned it into a company for commercial cargo transportation?
        Why did many of the specialists of KB Ilyushen go to the Russian division of the Boeing?
        Why in the Mikoyan Design Bureau, the generals changed each other like gloves, with lawsuits, searches in offices, etc.
        Why nowhere do the names of these people flicker? But because they have not left the aviation industry anywhere. They continue to milk the state, blaming the collapse of the Dry

        What the hell are planes? Yes, it’s better to sell the premises in Moscow, preferably to ourselves, in your pocket. And the planes ... these planes ... They only interfere. It’s more profitable to sell premises!

        But now it is necessary to somehow explain to the population their failure. And the guilty party was found: there he is, Poghosyan! Only he did not sell a meter of Sukhoi square real estate, only he kept the design bureau and made PAKFA and Superjet! So it was decided to blame him for the collapse of the aviation industry and the collapse of all the other design bureaus.
        1. user1212
          user1212 April 5 2014 21: 24
          +2
          Well, one more. Why does Vladimir Leonov (the author of the article) receive awards (apparently forever green) from Motor Sich (supplier of the main competitor of dry products on the Russian market)? So you are what an "independent journalist"!
        2. oldstaryi
          oldstaryi April 5 2014 22: 45
          +2
          Yes, to blame. If you made fighter jets, then do not get into civil aviation. This is the same as MIT climbed to make a sea-based missile ...
          1. user1212
            user1212 April 6 2014 04: 30
            +2
            Do not bring the blame on the healthy. Tupolev Design Bureau was not able to design a plane for 2000. No one. No specialists. Back in the 90s, most were gone, KB property sold out. Secretaries in Tupolev Plaza should have designed the plane?
          2. Berxen
            Berxen April 7 2014 02: 02
            0
            Quote: oldstaryi
            If you made fighter jets, then do not get into civil aviation. This is the same as MIT climbed to make a sea-based missile ...


            Hmm, I wonder if you won a tender for 250 strategic bombers in the 70s, and then the project SUDDENLY closed to enter the Tupoley competition? And if the second tender was won by Myasishchev’s project, but SUDDENLY given to Tupolev, who for some reason reworked the project again? Everyone somehow sharply forgot about the Tupolev lobby in the party and government.
        3. igor.borov775
          igor.borov775 April 5 2014 22: 49
          +2
          We need to start a little from the other end, Sukhov’s company was identified as the main one in the aircraft industry and it wasn’t that there were no orders, Bank loans were taken under the state, it helped a lot, export of cars increased, the rest of them hung, they didn’t pass and didn’t give , I remember how Chernomyrdin promised but did not grow together, So the rest swung, Yes, Mr. Chubais needed to be added here, he signed a very favorable agreement with the Yankis on preferential acquisition of BOING planes, there was even a deadline There was a whole story, But it was, But our media we cried now only on BOEAGES we will fly,
          1. user1212
            user1212 April 6 2014 04: 40
            +3
            You confuse cause and effect. Sukhoi Design Bureau received money because it built aircraft, and did not build an aircraft because it received money

            By the way, few people like to remember, but initially it was supposed to develop SSJ together with the same Ilyushushintsy and Yakovlevtsy. They had to help with their experience in creating civilian vehicles — designing a wing and a tail section, and Ilyushin also did all the testing and certification of the aircraft. The aircraft was positioned in this way - the development of Sukhoi - Ilyushin - Yakovlev. It just didn’t work out - when it came to real work, it turned out that there was already nobody to do it all with them. It's a pity! As a result, the main part of the airframe for the glider was issued by Sukhoi, the entire tail of Taganrog, Boeing was invited to consultants (at the initial stage of the project there was no Boeing at all), and for testing it was necessary to create a VIC from scratch and restore the abandoned one and the unfrozen hangar, by that time, was no longer Tupolevsky. (copy paste)
        4. sleepy
          sleepy April 6 2014 14: 18
          +3
          Quote: user1212
          "Maybe the minus players will answer a couple of questions?
          All our design bureaus fell apart in the 90s. "


          SSJ as a vacuum cleaner sucked off all possible investments in other projects.
          This means the final death of civil aviation design bureaus,
          the death of an entire school.
          All this frenzy in supporting the SSJ project cannot be explained in any way by the desire to raise the aviation industry. And why should he even rise?
          That all the money from the sale of superjets will be directed to the reindustrialization of the industry. Someone believes in this7 How will the aviation industry rise?
          Our Russian aviation equipment will simply not put anything on if there are only superjets or planes like him around.
          This will lead to the fact that aircraft instrumentation as an industry in the Russian Federation
          will die completely. So maybe this is the main point?
      9. dmitrij.blyuz
        dmitrij.blyuz April 5 2014 21: 34
        +2
        Far from being anti-Poghosyan criticism! The arguments of the Week in each issue raise questions of national Aviation. Yes, there is a heading: "People's plane Tu-334." Here is only one article from the last issue. But in each issue there are not only comments but also facts collapse of the civil aircraft industry by Poghosyan and Manturov. By the way, this article is now in front of me. From April 3. (supplier of the main competitor of dry in the Russian market)-what does Motor Sich supply there for a competitor dry?
        1. user1212
          user1212 April 6 2014 04: 54
          +4
          That's exactly what the arguments of the week are. And the journalism of Leonov works there. What are the facts in Leonov's articles? I have never seen him an article with facts and figures. Everything is based on the opinion of anonymous experts. One lies. Can you give a link?
          Here is an article by Leonov
          http://argumenti.ru/society/n354/199145
          Here is a parsing of lies in this article
          http://superjet100.info/wiki:ssj-davit

          In general, there is one pattern in the articles that water the superjet. Their authors in most cases Leonov, Gusarov, Bozhieva.

          Quote: dmitrij.blyuz
          then does Motor Sich supply for a competitor dry?

          D-436-148. No?
          1. dmitrij.blyuz
            dmitrij.blyuz April 6 2014 07: 45
            -3
            Prefer French? Thanks to Motor Sich, we still have engines of this class. But haven't they really killed the NK-93, Tupolev Design Bureau? His one idea of ​​transferring the production of a civilian aircraft to a purely military enterprise is already delusional. Is it not his idea to take the design and production of a new generation of strategists from Tu and Sukhoi? Sukhoi is focused on fighter aircraft. He never did strategists and there are no such capacities there. same. A specific cut of the dough is coming. Jews cry that they are not so capable!
            1. user1212
              user1212 April 6 2014 11: 14
              +1
              Quote: dmitrij.blyuz
              But wasn’t it all done, practically ruined NK-93, Tupolev’s design bureau?

              Also deducted from Leonov?

              In 1999, the engine gas generator was tested at the TsIAM Central Technical Inspection in simulated flight conditions (H = 11 km, Mn = 0,75). According to the results of these tests, shortfalls in efficiency (after 8 years of refinement) amounted to: Δη * Knd = 1,8%, Δη * KVD = 1,4%, Δη * TVD = 7,1%, Δη * Tnd = 2%. According to the results of linking the engine parameters in bench conditions, the shortage of efficiency fan fan Δη * vv = 1 ... 1,5%, efficiency fan turbine Δη * tvv = 1%. Due to shortfalls in efficiency the actual gas temperature in front of the turbine during take-off operation exceeded the design temperature by more than 140 ° C, and the specific fuel consumption during cruising operation exceeded the declared value by 9% (according to TsIAM
              As of March 2003, the development of the engine is still at the initial stage, ~ 10% of the necessary work has been completed, the final structural profile of the engine (typical design) has not yet been determined. The vane machines of the engine are made at the technology level of the 1980s (with a large number of stages in the compressor). There is still no standard SPG. The mass of the NK-93 engine No. 10 (according to the data of OAO SNTK named after ND Kuznetsov) is 6364 kg instead of 5140 kg according to the technical specification (an excess of 24%). (http://bmpd.livejournal.com/445832.html)

              This "great breakthrough" project of the Tupolev Design Bureau has not been able to bring to mind for 20 years already. Well, they have no specialists. They fled long before the formation of the UAC (and this is 2008).

              In 2004, when there was a competition for the regional leader of the Tupolev Design Bureau, he was not able to develop an aircraft. None at all. Neither civilian nor military. There are no people, the property has been sold out, the equipment has been looted (don’t you remember the name of the person who led the KB Tu?

              In April 1998, the Board of Directors elected the Director General of OJSC ANTK im. A. N. Tupolev »Vasily Alexandrov. Together with Aleksandrov, the military came to a number of senior positions in the company - employees of the institute, which he directed. The building of the pilot plant (ZOK), where almost all aircraft for flight and strength tests were built, as well as the building of the foundry and forge shop and the vacuum laboratory, were sold together with the territory for demolition and construction of residential buildings. The historically famous COSOS building, where, in fact, Soviet aircraft construction began, was sold and resold
              (http://ru.wikipedia.org article by Tupolev (design bureau))

              The full restoration of KB Tu will take a lot of time. I hope we still fly on their planes, but now they can only design individual parts, but not the whole plane
              1. dmitrij.blyuz
                dmitrij.blyuz April 6 2014 13: 01
                +1
                "great breakthrough" project of the Tupolev Design Bureau === like, how did the Kuznetsov Design Bureau's engine do. No? Dvigun have been crushed for how many years? In this case, you will not be able to fly on Tu, Yak, Il. Batons and watermelons are yours. What did Gaidar say about our Aviation Industry?
                1. user1212
                  user1212 April 6 2014 13: 54
                  0
                  Quote: dmitrij.blyuz
                  sort of like the KB Kuznetsov engine did

                  Wrong
                  Quote: dmitrij.blyuz
                  Dvigun coffin how many years? Without finance

                  In the collapse of the USSR, it seems that you too are to blame for Poghosyan. I repeat the UAC was formed a little later and could not in any way affect the refinement of NK 93.
                  Quote: dmitrij.blyuz
                  Although he flew 76th

                  IL-76LL (flying laboratory).
                  in May 2007, 3, we conducted the first flight of a flying laboratory with an inoperative engine NK-93. Why not working? Because it was necessary to see the speed of autorotation, the behavior of the aircraft. The power plant is quite heavy - more than seven tons. In the first flight, we recorded the autorotation speed. Due to the lack of funding that year, it was only possible to participate in the MAKS-2007 air show; virtually no work was carried out.
                  Read more: http://vpk-news.ru/articles/15106
                  Yes. Flying is so flying. True, there was still a flight on December 15, 2008 for 4 km with a check of the regimes up to 0.4 face value, but does this change things much?
                  Quote: dmitrij.blyuz
                  In this case, you can’t fly to Tu, Yak, Il. Batons and watermelons is yours

                  I should not choose the aircraft of the design bureaus you listed, but the airlines. You didn’t confuse me with Aeroflot?
                  Quote: dmitrij.blyuz
                  What did Gaidar say about our Aviaprom?

                  I did not write a biography of Gaidar. I have no idea what he was saying about our aviation industry.
                  1. dmitrij.blyuz
                    dmitrij.blyuz April 6 2014 14: 11
                    +2
                    The engine was completely destroyed. I didn’t, so to speak, was next to it at the tests on the 76th. I will not argue. You in the subject === http: //yandex.ru/clck/jsredir ? from = yandex.ru% 3Byandsearch% 3Bweb% 3B% 3B% 2Fw
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              2. dmitrij.blyuz
                dmitrij.blyuz April 6 2014 14: 31
                0
                More in the topic. Next, educate yourself. === http: //yandex.ru/clck/jsredir? From = yandex.ru% 3Byandsearch% 3Bweb
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                Z1AxV1dnWTM5clBnb0x2TTJGX0wxZg&b64e=2&sign=7716082d2a190933a8d6d64ed8b33c05&keyn
                o = 0 & l10n = ru & mc = 3.7409532604048383
          2. dmitrij.blyuz
            dmitrij.blyuz April 6 2014 14: 25
            0
            There is still a little bit. But actually a lot. Interview. == http: //yandex.ru/video/search? Text =% D0% BD% D0% BA-93% 20% D0
            %B4%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B3%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BB%D1%8C&where=all&filmId=rni65sOx8gE
      10. oldstaryi
        oldstaryi April 5 2014 22: 31
        0
        Poghosyan to the count! Together with the Mantur and the Medved! What are the distortions? Poghosyan kills the whole industry! You really need to build YOUR planes! And such managers on the count, definitely!
    3. vo.dum
      vo.dum April 5 2014 15: 45
      +18
      This has been going on for more than a year already ... and who will dismiss him if the prime minister and liberalist ..... and there are a lot of questions to the GDP on the failures of his personnel policy ... And then Su seems to be raised, and MiGs and other design schools with world names and best practices we throw them into the wreck because of these gentlemen and their money ... yes, any state will be glad to accept such design bureaus in its jurisdiction ... Tu, MiG, Il, Be ... we can not save ... cry then we’ll have no design school .... and how many have already lost ??? remember and think ... how did we manage to allow this ??? the answer is simple, just like now we allow some manager to kill the most important industry for the country ...
      1. Cherdak
        Cherdak April 5 2014 16: 21
        +7
        Quote: vo.dum
        we allow some manager Pogosyan to destroy the most important industry for the country.

        Bravo! So him! Doesn’t know how to do anything, only Vadim lets dust into his eyes!
      2. Nick
        Nick April 5 2014 16: 24
        +11
        Quote: vo.dum
        .da and the GDP a lot of questions about the failures of its personnel policy.

        But what can I say, with all due respect to I. Stalin, I reproach him for one thing, I did not manage to ensure the continuity of the course and allowed the revisionists, led by Khrushchev, to enter the upper echelons of power, a man whose personality scale allowed him to manage the region at best case, but no more ...
        1. Ivan Petrovich
          Ivan Petrovich April 5 2014 16: 45
          +5
          yes, probably ... but personalities, at the helm of a state, on such a scale as Comrade Stalin do not appear often. God's will...
      3. Ivan Petrovich
        Ivan Petrovich April 5 2014 16: 41
        -1
        question to putinoidam. Imagine for a moment that instead of the gdp at the head of the state, Comrade Stalin ... What would happen to the Christians, Shaposhnikovs, supporters, etc.? and would we fly on Boehs Boeing?
        1. svp67
          svp67 April 5 2014 18: 16
          +3
          Quote: Ivan Petrovich
          Imagine for a moment that instead of the gdp at the head of the state, Comrade Stalin ... What would happen to the Christians, Shaposhnikovs, supporters, etc.? and would we fly on Boehs Boeing?

          And you remember the story ... after the collapse of the aircraft industry in the Civil War, our country used foreign aircraft for a long time, remember at least Li2 and Tu4 that Putin appeared to blame us too, or are there objective reasons?
          1. Ivan Petrovich
            Ivan Petrovich April 5 2014 22: 36
            0
            but the difference is that he himself, the gdp, is also to blame for the collapse
          2. samoletil18
            samoletil18 April 6 2014 00: 50
            0
            Quote: svp67
            Li2 and Tu4

            Which Russian aircraft factory produces the B-737, for example?
            1. samoletil18
              samoletil18 April 6 2014 10: 43
              +2
              If the minus is from Poghosyan, then I'm happy! Knocked on him.
            2. samoletil18
              samoletil18 April 6 2014 10: 43
              +1
              If the minus is from Poghosyan, then I'm happy! Knocked on him.
          3. The comment was deleted.
          4. 11111mail.ru
            11111mail.ru April 6 2014 08: 19
            -1
            Quote: svp67
            And you remember the story ...

            Let's remember, I agree.
            Quote: svp67
            after the collapse of the aircraft industry in the Civil War

            The collapse of the aviation industry was announced. Well, where and in what capacity was the "aviation" industry in the Russian Empire? Russobalt was evacuated from Riga in 1915 and produced aircraft (1912-1917, 240 aircraft of various types). This is not the aviation industry, because aircraft engines R.I. did not produce.
            Quote: svp67
            our country has long used foreign aircraft, remember at least Li2 and Tu4

            Turns out? The prototypes Douglas DC-3 "Dacota" and Boeing B-29 "Superfortress" were used to create their own aircraft Li-2 and Tu-4, which differed from the prototypes like VAZ-2101 from FIAT-124.
          5. sleepy
            sleepy April 6 2014 14: 45
            +2
            Quote: svp67
            "Do you remember the story ... after the collapse of the aviation industry
            in the Civil War, our country has long used
            foreign aircraft ... "


            Using foreign aircraft does not always mean supporting foreign aircraft manufacturers.
            For example, the use of Fiat developments did not mean support for the Italian automotive industry.

            What is the situation now?
            In 1938, a technical school for aircraft instrumentation was created in Leningrad.
            They trained technicians who serviced aircraft and technologists for production.
            And where is this technical school - sunk into oblivion ...

            But there is the Aviation and Transport College of St. Petersburg State University of Civil Aviation.

            The college prepares transportation organizers, passenger service on board the aircraft, licensing and certification, booking and sale of air transportation and services, aviation security, specialties that provide knowledge in service activities, professional ethics in service, management and marketing, planning and operation of transport services , transport law and service systems, training of air traffic controllers of modern automated air traffic control systems with in-depth study of the English language ..

            And where is the support of domestic instrumentation? Some services and everything.
        2. dmitriygorshkov
          dmitriygorshkov April 5 2014 18: 36
          +6
          Quote: Ivan Petrovich
          question to putinoidam.

          Petrovich! Do not be like Bandera shkolota!
          Of course, we have an ass all around, but it seems that some kind of shifts are taking place, which we are happy about! We are waiting for development!
          1. typhoon7
            typhoon7 April 5 2014 19: 08
            +3
            I agree with you that GDP would be such a team of economists, as in the power and foreign policy bloc, but the situation needs to be changed, it will not bring to good.
          2. Nick
            Nick April 5 2014 20: 36
            +2
            Quote: dmitriygorshkov
            Of course we have an ass around, but

            It is of course ... oops, but not around, but in many matters ...
          3. Ivan Petrovich
            Ivan Petrovich April 5 2014 22: 34
            +6
            and I am not likened to anything. As you know, under Comrade Stalin, the Banderaites were simply destroyed, without too much noise. I can’t even imagine that at that time there would be people like Serdyukov, Chubais and so on in power.
            1. sleepy
              sleepy April 6 2014 14: 57
              +3
              Quote: Ivan Petrovich
              "As you know, under Comrade Stalin, Bandera's people were simply destroyed, without unnecessary noise."


              Destroyed only when resisting during detention.
              Surrendered Bendera were tried by a Soviet court,
              as judged by the Vlasovites.
              Thanks to the humane Soviet court under I. Stalin, many Bendera
              and the Vlasovites remained alive and raised their children in the future
              according to their convictions.
        3. cdrt
          cdrt April 5 2014 19: 12
          +4
          Quote: Ivan Petrovich
          Imagine for a moment that instead of the gdp at the head of the state, Comrade Stalin ... What would happen to the Christians, Shaposhnikovs, supporters, etc.? and would we fly on Boehs Boeing?


          With IVS, most of them flew licensed Li-2s, and somehow nothing
          1. dmitrij.blyuz
            dmitrij.blyuz April 5 2014 21: 49
            +2
            Li-2 is our name for a DC-3 produced under license from the American Douglas. But that one had the motors - "Wright Cyclone". We couldn't make an exact copy, and we didn't have to.
        4. weaver85
          weaver85 April 5 2014 19: 50
          0
          In America, Tu and Ilah would fly for export now, with living Stalin :)
        5. Nick
          Nick April 5 2014 20: 31
          +5
          Ivan Petorvich, you think too straightforwardly. Stalin began with such gentlemen as Trotsky, Zinoviev, Kamenev, Bukharin, etc. Gradually eliminated them from power, but not immediately and not by a wave of a magic wand, moreover, by methods far from applicable in today's reality ...
        6. andrewvlg
          andrewvlg April 5 2014 20: 33
          +2
          Quote: Ivan Petrovich
          question to putinoidam.

          You, citizen, if you hang up labels, learn our native Russian language, at least in C grade. No, dear ... in the word putinoids and brief. Or do you have a different native language, not Russian?
    4. platitsyn70
      platitsyn70 April 5 2014 15: 53
      +17
      there is pressure on Russian aviation from the same boig and airbase, someone warms his hands not bad on this.
    5. Sibiriya
      Sibiriya April 5 2014 20: 30
      +2
      Unfortunately, no one canceled the rollbacks
      mattress covers also roll well
      to do as Stalin could not cope - gone
      and more
      The winners of the "gold" in the Sochi Olympics, Russian Anton Shipulin and Belarusian biathlete Daria Domracheva, with only one slip by a pair, won the main start of the Race of Champions, which ended in Moscow, - a mixed relay.

      The relay race was preceded by a personal race with a mass start, in which Marie Doren-Abert (France) and Jacob Fak (Slovenia) won. Our Anton Shipulin finished second in the men's race.

      Well done boys smile
    6. AVV
      AVV April 5 2014 22: 38
      +4
      Quote: konvalval
      Are these Manturov and Poghosyan, like a little redhead, also untouchable? There is no government on them? It turns out that there are no issues to be resolved with Crimea, but with these in no way, as my three-year-old great-granddaughter says. Drive, and maybe plant.

      It’s time to create a deputy commission on this issue, there’s nothing for them to simply wipe their pants, it’s time to raise domestic production and refuse to import !!! With the sanctions of the West this is the most urgent issue for Russia !!!
      1. samoletil18
        samoletil18 April 6 2014 00: 56
        +1
        Quote: AVV
        create a deputy commission on this issue

        Yeah, who wants to fly out of the Duma?
      2. The comment was deleted.
    7. 225chay
      225chay April 5 2014 22: 58
      0
      Quote: konvalval
      Are these Manturov and Poghosyan, like a little redhead, also untouchable? There is no government on them? It turns out that there are no issues to be resolved with Crimea, but with these in no way, as my three-year-old great-granddaughter says. Drive, and maybe plant.

      Such as Pa Gasian will ruin and finish off the Russian aviation industry to the end, how to give a drink and don’t go to your grandmother.
      One crawls into a bread place (sorry, to a managerial post with oh..er..enny salaries) and starts pulling all his brainless relatives to responsible positions and until they kill and pull away production they won't calm down
  2. Vitaly Anisimov
    Vitaly Anisimov April 5 2014 15: 16
    +3
    Verification is needed (interdepartmental), but not bickering! no time now!
    1. 52
      52 April 5 2014 16: 07
      +8
      Yes, no verification is needed !!! Already a criminal case and the names of the motherland! And, in general, only mass executions of entih freaks will save the nation!
    2. 225chay
      225chay April 5 2014 23: 30
      +2
      Quote: MIKHAN
      Verification is needed (interdepartmental), but not bickering! no time now!


      And in the factories to revive the quality control department, for defective products in the mines.
      in the Ministry of Defense of SMERSH with the same powers as during the war ...
  3. Nevsky_ZU
    Nevsky_ZU April 5 2014 15: 17
    +11
    Vice Prime Minister Dm. Rogozin has long and rightly demanded that everything be done in order to preserve and support domestic design schools. But all projects in civil aviation are perceived by Pogosyan completely or reduced to the construction of special boards. I talked with the designers of AK Ilyushin, and with their colleagues from OJSC Tupolev - their future is shrouded in a mist of uncertainty. Here Rogozin says that it is necessary to start producing passenger IL-114 in Russia. And the CB, just in case, immediately prepares a proposal to the Ministry of Defense to make a patrol version of the aircraft for them. Because Pogosyan will wave aside from the “passenger”, but it is difficult to ignore the Ministry of Defense, headed by S. Shoigu.


    Who is stronger than Shoigu in conjunction with Rogozin or Pogosyan "long-liver"?
    1. weaver85
      weaver85 April 5 2014 20: 00
      +4
      At the end of the XNUMXs, Zyuganov seems to have initiated an investigation with the Communist Party of the Russian Federation about what Manturov and Poghosyan had done? There go and sickly "bundles" too, if nothing ended. But now they will ask - in the light of the sanctions, the jet will not fly without American-French details :)
    2. sleepy
      sleepy April 6 2014 15: 35
      +3
      Quote: Nevsky_ZU
      "Who is stronger than Shoigu in conjunction with Rogozin, or is Pogosyan a 'long-liver'?"


      "On April 8, at the initiative of the State Duma Defense Committee, closed hearings are to be held - the president of the United Aircraft Corporation (UAC), Mikhail Poghosyan, is awaiting. There are already a lot of questions for him ..."

      After the hearings, we find out who is stronger.
      Although if the hearings are closed, we can find out in 50 years.
      Maybe that's why they are closed, because there is something to hide?
      1. dmitrij.blyuz
        dmitrij.blyuz April 6 2014 15: 50
        +1
        Exactly. Judging by this page, many people are supportive. So it’s hard to hope for improvements. It’s harder than returning Crimea. In your native country, the walls are taller and stronger! Do not break.
  4. andrey903
    andrey903 April 5 2014 15: 18
    +18
    Sukhoi is an Armenian family business. The leaders are completely Armenians, Poghosin relatives. The plant territory is walked with numerous guards.
    1. Nevsky_ZU
      Nevsky_ZU April 5 2014 15: 25
      +8
      Quote: andrey903
      Sukhoi is an Armenian family business. The leaders are completely Armenians, Poghosin relatives. The plant territory is walked with numerous guards.


      It is sad...
      1. Horst78
        Horst78 April 6 2014 01: 07
        0
        Quote: Nevsky_ZU
        Sukhoi is an Armenian family business.

        Quote: Nevsky_ZU
        It is sad...

        Are you sure? What faith is said above? "Hamlet" (originally from the Caucasus) buried my father and I owe him for it.
    2. Cherdak
      Cherdak April 5 2014 16: 25
      +2
      Quote: andrey903
      Numerous guards walk around the plant

      No, he alone lives in an underground bunker and is afraid to go out bully
      A cognac pipeline was made from Armenia to Komsomolsk-on-Amur and now the factory is called Pogost-on-Armur lol
      The information is accurate - I heard it myself in the tram.
      1. bomg.77
        bomg.77 April 5 2014 17: 49
        -7
        MiG company, behave like scoundrels! How tensions arise in the country, they throw a vile article. It was after the disaster in Kazan, they tried to earn points on their blood. Pogosyan is not an angel, but trying to replace him is not a fact that we will get an angel. MiG firm I would advise you to study and spend money on airplanes, and not on articles and writers.
    3. bomg.77
      bomg.77 April 5 2014 18: 14
      +1
      Quote: andrey903
      Sukhoi is an Armenian family business. The leaders are all Armenians, relatives of Poghosyan.
      Artyom Mikoyan, was also a relative of Anastas Mikoyan .. Do you regret it?
      1. ia-ai00
        ia-ai00 April 5 2014 21: 15
        +7
        It is necessary to judge people by deeds, not by nationality or family affiliation. And if the "actions" of a specific "individual" harm the industry of their country, and foreigners - the benefit, then it is necessary to remove from production and bring to justice, to the fullest extent.
        1. bomg.77
          bomg.77 April 6 2014 04: 08
          0
          Quote: ia-ai00
          People must be judged by deeds, not by nationality or family affiliation
          To whom I replied, he focuses on nationality. I agree with the rest of the commentary, but with one caveat, both sides should be listened to, not just Sukhoi's direct competitors.
    4. 225chay
      225chay April 5 2014 23: 33
      0
      Quote: andrey903
      Sukhoi is an Armenian family business. The leaders are completely Armenians, Poghosin relatives. The plant territory is walked with numerous guards.


      Oh ... well then, a pipe to production! Where these "brothers" appear, everything will be ruined and destroyed like in Armenia
      1. bomg.77
        bomg.77 April 6 2014 04: 12
        0
        Quote: 225chay
        Oh ... well then, a pipe to production! Where these "brothers" appear, everything will be ruined and destroyed like in Armenia
        The Armenians are still nothing, the most important thing is that the Azerbaijanis are not taken, otherwise it will be like with a mace and Ashurbeyli
    5. evil hamster
      evil hamster April 6 2014 01: 21
      +2
      Give two akhrenet, horror of what is being done, the dominance of non-Russians. Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhdhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh - - - - Saw all Armenians Mikoyanov with Jews Gurevich and all sorts of Yangels there with red-hot iron, pluck memorial plaques from a paint-box, rename the streets, TAKE WIN.
      1. 225chay
        225chay April 6 2014 23: 54
        -2
        Quote: evil hamster
        Give two akhrenet, horror of what is being done, the dominance of non-Russians. Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhdhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh - - - - Saw all Armenians Mikoyanov with Jews Gurevich and all sorts of Yangels there with red-hot iron, pluck memorial plaques from a paint-box, rename the streets, TAKE WIN.

        Do not stir up ethnic hatred!
        All people are not to blame for the dirty tricks of individual representatives! ...))
    6. Berxen
      Berxen April 7 2014 02: 12
      0
      Quote: andrey903
      Sukhoi is an Armenian family business. The leaders are completely Armenians, Poghosin relatives. The plant territory is walked with numerous guards.
      Reply Quote Report Abuse


      Do not be ashamed to lie?
  5. I read the news
    I read the news April 5 2014 15: 18
    +20
    Why in 30-e, 40-e years, these issues were resolved, but now not?
    1. Nevsky_ZU
      Nevsky_ZU April 5 2014 15: 22
      +17
      Quote: I readNews
      Why in 30-e, 40-e years, these issues were resolved, but now not?


      I agree with you about the Russian people from the outskirts, experiencing for the Great Russia and its return .. sad
      1. oldstaryi
        oldstaryi April 5 2014 22: 52
        +4
        I agree with you about a Russian person from the Outskirts, worried about Great Russia and its return .. sad



        Hello to the Malorossam! We are with you! drinks
    2. Ivan Petrovich
      Ivan Petrovich April 5 2014 16: 47
      +5
      and then a man drove a little different scale ...
    3. Irokez
      Irokez April 5 2014 23: 14
      +1
      The time was another harsh and hungry.
  6. omsbon
    omsbon April 5 2014 15: 19
    +16
    Apparently, for Pogosyan and Manturov, theirs is not here, but there. They do not care at all that, without regular orders, the enterprises supplying components for the aircraft industry will lose, as the effective managers now say, competence. Or simply unfavorable production is curtailed. Then certainly to bow to the western partners, friends of Pogosyan and Manturov, let's go.


    If the benefits and friends are there, then Pogosyan should sit here with the number on the jersey.
    1. Nevsky_ZU
      Nevsky_ZU April 5 2014 15: 23
      +4
      Quote: omsbon
      Apparently, for Pogosyan and Manturov, theirs is not here, but there. They do not care at all that, without regular orders, the enterprises supplying components for the aircraft industry will lose, as the effective managers now say, competence. Or simply unfavorable production is curtailed. Then certainly to bow to the western partners, friends of Pogosyan and Manturov, let's go.


      If the benefits and friends are there, then Pogosyan should sit here with the number on the jersey.


      But what about the T-50 PAK FA? Merit or not? He personally showed Putin the cockpit canopy ... Well settled down ...recourse
      1. skifd
        skifd April 5 2014 17: 31
        +5
        Quote: Nevsky_ZU
        But what about the T-50 PAK FA? Merit or not?


        There will still be enough trouble with the T-50, and Poghosyan did not personally do it, the work of a large number of people. The conversation is not just about the fate of the Sukhoi Design Bureau, but about the situation as a whole. Well, a person in such a position should not think about his personal ambitions and create preferences only in the direction that is (perhaps only personally) beneficial to him. IMHO.
        1. igor.borov775
          igor.borov775 April 5 2014 23: 20
          0
          It’s not the matter of politics; it’s the policy of our liberals in the upper echelons of power. Yes, lucky Sukhoi in the early 90s was able to achieve that this company became the only supplier, although there were no supplies but there were loans and this helped, He could even make a civilian plane, If he started to make it completely Russian where Sukhov’s company was, you don’t know, but you need to know, Where TU IL AN is, the Yankis would quickly crush the more helpers they have here, It was a breath of heaven, and what we did ourselves we see where everything is, Other the matter is the movement of capital in the UAC itself is another matter, here you need to look, Let it build Super pleases the Yankees but you need to raise your own
      2. oldstaryi
        oldstaryi April 5 2014 22: 56
        0

        But then what about the T-50 PAK FA? Merit or not? He personally showed Putin the lantern of the cabin ... Well attached ... recourse


        There are a lot of problems. While PAK FA is far from the declared characteristics ....
    2. Vadim12
      Vadim12 April 5 2014 15: 48
      +5
      Check for discrediting connections - and plant!
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. 225chay
      225chay April 5 2014 23: 36
      -1
      Quote: omsbon
      If the benefits and friends are there, then Pogosyan should sit here with the number on the jersey.


      They have already spread throughout the country and have occupied warm places, plus they are dragging and arranging for their posts ...
  7. zinander
    zinander April 5 2014 15: 20
    +8
    Pogosyana is high time, however, as well as Serdyukov ...... and for some reason, to the great regret of many, and now there ...
    1. Cherdak
      Cherdak April 5 2014 16: 28
      -2
      Quote: Iskander
      Pogosyana is high time, however, like Serdyukov ...

      I always liked people with a limited set of cardinal decisions winked

      Simplicity is worse than theft, they say.
      If fools give the will, they will be clever with the light.
      Saltykov.
      1. Cherdak
        Cherdak April 10 2014 13: 39
        0
        It is curious enough to get acquainted with the opinion of an expert on Serdyukov:

        Guilty without guilt
        Oleg Matveychev, political strategist

        Given:

        1. Recent events in Crimea, sudden exercises, etc., have shown that Russia has an army, is well armed, equipped, and trained. By the way, the events in South Ossetia confirmed the same thing. Even living conditions seem to Ukrainians just a fairy tale.
        2. Again, the latest actions of the authorities (in the broadest sense of the word) indicate the presence of common sense and logic. As well as the professionalism of the army commanders, who supposedly all "left the army."

        The army is not done for six months, and for the year too. But in the beginning of the zero we had no combat-ready units and there was a complete collapse.

        Conclusion: Serdyukov did no harm, and maybe brought great benefit.

        By the way, of the 15 billion that he allegedly stole, the Ministry of Defense has already recognized that everything was found. And the part turned out to be insignificant in the scale of the army and obviously did not have a direct relationship with Serdyukov personally.

        Or maybe it is worth punishing those representatives of the Investigative Committee who unprofessionally promoted on Serdyukov, made him a demon, discredited all the power in Russia, and then turned out to be unable to prove anything?
  8. ia-ai00
    ia-ai00 April 5 2014 15: 23
    +3
    The entire aviation industry of the country last year issued a total of 36 passenger cars. Of these, 24 "Superjet", which 80% packed with foreign components.


    Well, after all, you can see with an unarmed look - Wrecking!

    the current head of the UAC drove aircraft manufacturers into a corner not alone. The liberal and marketer E. Gaidar generally considered his own civilian aircraft industry a whim, aviation marshal E. Shaposhnikov, when he was CEO of Aeroflot, opened a window for Boeing and Airbus to penetrate the Russian market.

    It's time to CLEAN Russia of "heroes", not just remove from office, but call to account, with confiscation, and inevitable PERIOD on LESOPOVAL.
    And those who reward these SVO ... with state awards, and erect monuments to these Iudam, - there, on felling, and not just sit in a sewing workshop and "sew mittens"!
    1. weaver85
      weaver85 April 5 2014 20: 17
      +4
      It is necessary to educate generations on these faces, and tell children:
      - This is Tolya, with it the energy network created by Soviet labor was fragmented and sold after the main factories of Russia.
      - This is Angry, with him we barely said goodbye to the armed forces.
      - And this is Poghosyan, with him in Russia, domestic civilian aircraft stopped buying, and the aircraft industry curled up to 30 aircraft per year.
    2. Geometr74
      Geometr74 April 5 2014 21: 44
      -4
      it turns out as before 50% are sitting, the other 50% are guarding them
  9. ia-ai00
    ia-ai00 April 5 2014 15: 26
    +8
    andrey903 (3) RU
    Sukhoi is an Armenian family business. The leaders are all Armenians, relatives of Poghosyan. Numerous guards walk around the plant

    SECURITY should be changed to "FREE" after confiscation ...
  10. Monster_Fat
    Monster_Fat April 5 2014 15: 28
    +4
    Poghosyan .... in the south of Russia, Armenians are called "Caucasian Jews", in my opinion, that says it all ...
  11. saag
    saag April 5 2014 15: 33
    +4
    it’s necessary to disaggregate the KLA, otherwise it has turned into a large, clumsy bureaucratic machine
  12. Siberian19
    Siberian19 April 5 2014 15: 43
    +6
    Surely no one can cheat on this guy’s hands, he raked everything for himself, and I won’t give others and others! Where are our mighty silts and that, brisk and fast yaks with twinks, if this is all because of the extinction, then he is an enemy of the Russian state!
  13. Chicot 1
    Chicot 1 April 5 2014 15: 44
    +8
    Wow! .. They decided to take Senor Poghosyan, Commander of the Order of Merit to the Italian Republic, for a ticklish place? .. It's high time. Moreover, together with all his hangers-on and accomplices. And not like Anatoly Serdyukov, but with all the diligence and diligence. Until the logical end ...
    I really hope that this is not an empty rumor, and that Senor Poghosyan will not be able to get away ...
  14. sazhka4
    sazhka4 April 5 2014 15: 49
    +14
    With Crimea, Putin is great. The rest is oak. "Friends" must be chosen .. The whole picture of "well-being" is spoiled, and even substituted at every step. And the people are all in "neponyatki". Chubais, Poghosyan, Serdyukov, Medvedev .. Tell me who your friend is and I'll tell you who you are.
    1. Ivan Petrovich
      Ivan Petrovich April 5 2014 16: 49
      -1
      an excellent speech at the next epoch-making pedrosny congress :)
  15. Navy7981
    Navy7981 April 5 2014 15: 50
    +4
    I think that the UAC should not be headed by the head of the company, which is part of the UAC. One way or another, but we perceive competition only from an administrative point of view, and Poghosyan is no exception. Appoint the chief of the KLA, the head of Ilshin, and we’ll get a roll of it aside. Just like the Minister of Automotive Industry Yakovlev (without detracting from his talent as a designer) gave Yaku no small preferences.
  16. Genry
    Genry April 5 2014 15: 52
    .
    Another vyser from Nevsky_ZU and its alliases.
    I heartily instructed all the assenting minuses.
    Let's get it back.

    And Poghosyan, unlike you, does his job, builds airplanes. And to whom it bothers, do planes and sell, otherwise hundreds are bought by Boeing (of course, here Poghosyan is to blame).
    1. sv68
      sv68 April 5 2014 16: 14
      +7
      Poghosyan is ruining the Russian aviation industry. His efforts will soon leave in the skies of Russia more than one Russian aircraft - a superjet - actually a hodgepodge and call it domestic - a hoax
      1. Genry
        Genry April 5 2014 16: 24
        -6
        Poghosyan kept his design bureau from collapse. The rest, de facto, did not survive, there are no leaders in them (have not yet grown).
        It’s the same as complaining that you don’t have a cow. She wanted to eat, you didn’t feed her and she died (such cattle). Now you complain that your neighbor hasn’t died. Redneck envy is the name for such behavior.
        1. samoletil18
          samoletil18 April 6 2014 01: 08
          +3
          Quote: Genry
          Poghosyan saved his design bureau from collapse
          India and China saved "his" design bureau from collapse.
          1. Berxen
            Berxen April 7 2014 02: 14
            0
            Quote: samoletil18
            India and China saved "his" design bureau from collapse.


            But why didn’t it take others?
        2. dmitrij.blyuz
          dmitrij.blyuz April 6 2014 19: 23
          +1
          Hey, Henry! To understand the "Mlada Okraina" in Russian vodka? You will not have more aircraft construction. Smoke turnips, and you will be happy, Maidan! Adyu.
      2. evil hamster
        evil hamster April 5 2014 16: 56
        +2
        I’ll tell you so in confidence, but the Russian aviation industry in civil aviation died by the year 2000, and Uncle PoGo has nothing to do with this. And yet, yes, to break up what is dead is not possible. And no matter how you like it - Superjet Russian aircraft designed, tested and manufactured by Russian designers and workers, and An148 - this is a Ukrainian aircraft, even if you crack - this is a fact! The same fact as the fact that Tu334 is not needed by any operator in the world is a reality reconcile.
        1. Old_kapitan
          Old_kapitan April 5 2014 17: 34
          +10
          Superjet A Russian aircraft designed, tested and manufactured by Russian designers and workers, and the An148 is a Ukrainian aircraft, even if you crack it, it's a fact
          You will laugh, but the An-148 developed in Ukraine and manufactured in Russia from Russian components is more Russian than the Superjet, which consists of half of the imported components - and this is a fact!
          1. evil hamster
            evil hamster April 5 2014 18: 10
            +5
            No, I will not, because it is not a fact. Russian components in An148 - glider and KSEIS-148, SAU-148, EDSU-148, SUIT-148 as far as I know, it seems like our protectors were before. It sometimes happens that the comrade of the SSI has him check with him, IMHO, it’s just that he is engaged in. And everything else - Ukraine and whose import there is fucking and still a cart. So, in terms of Russianness, komplektuhi is still a question of who is ours and who is not. But in the question whose plane there are no questions, An-148 - Ukraine, in the person of Antonov Design Bureau, has developed, tested, stratified and has all the rights. The same with the jet, only there Russia in the person of the GSS. I hope such an obvious fact does not cause your rejection?
        2. weaver85
          weaver85 April 5 2014 20: 38
          +3
          Not a single operator needs? What about Red Wings?
          Do you even understand that the survival of such giants that were created to solve global problems (rather than self-sufficiency) is a matter of strategic planning, orders and protection? There was no one to defend the domestic aviation industry at the highest level, but there were lobbyists Airbus, Boeing and the French something (well, I forgot) with pronounced motivation and convincing results. Financial flows are wrapped in them, we are not building our own, and what we are building is not entirely ours.
          1. evil hamster
            evil hamster April 6 2014 01: 30
            -1
            What about redwings? Wanted to buy Tu334? Can you give more details? What was the contract? or so are the statements to the press: they say we wouldn’t let it go with joy and evil?
            1. sleepy
              sleepy April 6 2014 15: 46
              +2
              Quote: evil hamster
              "And what about Redwings? I wanted to buy a Tu334? Can you get more details?"
              What was the contract? or so press statements:
              they say we would be happy and not let the sinister go? "


              Red Wings wanted to buy 44 Tu-204SM aircraft.
              If Tu production expanded due to this contract,
              would have reached the Tu-334.

              "In November, Alexander Lebedev addressed the government,
              owner of Red Wings, with a proposal to purchase 44 Tu-204SM aircraft. For this, the businessman demanded that the state significantly reduce the cost of the aircraft - from 1,5 billion to 1 billion rubles., Provide technical support
              and guarantee the residual value of the aircraft. After a series of meetings with suppliers of components, a compromise was reached - 1,1 billion rubles.
              http://www.kommersant.ru/doc/1606860

              The UAC leadership then tried to disrupt the deal by pushing the price one and a half times. However, the businessman raised a scandal, even wrote a letter to Putin. We managed to bring down the price and there was no convenient pretext for closing the project. The contract for 44 Tu-204SM between IFC and Red Wings was estimated at $ 1,5 billion
              and the initial lump sum was 10% ... "
              http://malchish.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=417&Itemid=35
              1. evil hamster
                evil hamster April 6 2014 16: 18
                -1
                Well, it’s understandable, balls, balls, if only WOULD ...
                But in fact nothing, well, and tales from Lebedev about 44 aircraft, they are tales. The campaign with 8 planes was going to take 44 well, yes, yes, yes, but not 144 then?
        3. oldstaryi
          oldstaryi April 5 2014 23: 01
          +1
          You will still laugh, but the TU-334 is very necessary INSIDE our country! A byak type MS-21 in the furnace!
          1. evil hamster
            evil hamster April 6 2014 01: 14
            -1
            No, I won’t laugh, and yes, inside our country, the Tu 334 has not gnawed at more than one tender organ, there is no demand for it and it will not, you want to argue, bring me a purchase contract, og! Ms21 aka Yak242 - the future of our aircraft industry and really the prospect of achieving at least something. Could you argue your undoubtedly very valuable opinion on this issue, why did MC 21 not please you so well, so briefly?
            1. alicante11
              alicante11 April 7 2014 02: 57
              0
              why did MS 21 not please you so well, so briefly thesis?


              I personally pleased everyone. It’s already enough to read the slops for the domestic aviation industry, and the slops of domestic production. And dryers get from competitors and competitors from dryers. Who benefits from? Boeing and watermelon who say - look, what all Russian guano planes are. Moreover, they themselves talk about it, we do not pull the tongue. And if you think about it? Why is your cool airplane not for sale, but the "ugrebish and semi-foreign" SSD is for sale? It's just that their marketing is worse. Because relatives and friends of relatives are sitting in commercial departments. The job is not dusty, but money. But at the same time, Poghosyan was able to make his relatives work, while the rest were not. Who is to blame for this? Poghosyan, GDP? This is CAPITALISM, gentlemen-comrades, and at the same time it is monopoly. They drained the USSR in 91, now it's too late to prove anything.
        4. dmitrij.blyuz
          dmitrij.blyuz April 6 2014 19: 53
          +1
          The Wicked Hamster! hi And without reminders, I know perfectly well the time of the collapse of our Aviaprom. You are mistaken, but that was before 2000. At that time I was still wandering at aircraft factories, military unit, etc. At that time Khristenko was appointed to the post to revive GVF, after him-Poghosyan. I don’t need to remind me about bending factories, the departure of specialists, re-profiling into turners of the former flight crew. This was my life. The Air Force officer. And Samara, and Kazan, until the last rivet knew. You should not teach me how and the notorious Henry! I have the honor!
          1. evil hamster
            evil hamster April 6 2014 21: 21
            +1
            Firstly, the post you answered was not for you.
            Secondly I wrote к In 2000, it collapsed like any process has its inertia, as well as restoration.
            Thirdly, after Khristenko Maturov at the Ministry of Industry and Trade, Poghosyan is not one of these, he is at the UAC in 2011 after Fedorov.
            Fourth, I didn’t contact you and I didn’t teach you, so I don’t understand yours.
    2. Chicot 1
      Chicot 1 April 5 2014 16: 30
      +9
      Quote: Genry
      I heartily instructed all the con cons

      Well, instructed the minuses, and then what? ..
      Quote: Genry
      And Poghosyan, unlike you, does his job, builds airplanes

      It is not Poghosyan who builds airplanes. They are built by designers in the design bureau and hard workers in factories. Poghosyan considers denyuzhku, since he is an "effective manager" ...
      Quote: Genry
      Let's return

      Danivosprosvashche ... Any your whim, dear Genry. You can even ask for supplements if there is not enough ...
      1. Rakti-kali
        Rakti-kali April 5 2014 17: 28
        -2
        Quote: Chicot 1
        It is not Poghosyan who builds airplanes. They are built by designers in the design bureau and hard workers in factories. Poghosyan considers denyuzhku, since he is an "effective manager" ...

        Naturally, it is not Poghosyan who personally builds aircraft, and it is clear that they are being built by designers and hard workers at factories. But what is surprising here? After all, Poghosyan is a really effective manager, without any quotes. And it is quite normal that he "thinks denyuzhku", that is, controls the fin. streams. This is his job.
        Koshkin, for T-34, he did not draw any blueprints himself, moreover, he was not even the ideologist of the project, but simply brought to mind the project of the arrested on frivolous charges of wrecking Dick. However, this does not negate the fact that the legendary T-34 appeared on the arsenal of the Red Army due to precisely the organizational talent of Mikhail Ilyich. So Poghosyan is an excellent organizer, thanks to which Russia has the opportunity to equip its air forces with the latest aircraft and produce quite high-quality and competitive civilian vehicles.
        1. Old_kapitan
          Old_kapitan April 5 2014 17: 42
          +6
          to produce quite high-quality and competitive civilian cars ...
          ... from imported components. And if this concerns avionics! ...
          1. Rakti-kali
            Rakti-kali April 5 2014 18: 10
            -5
            So what? Worldwide practice. Moreover, localization is only growing from year to year.
        2. Chicot 1
          Chicot 1 April 5 2014 20: 05
          +10
          Wow! .. They remembered even the "thirty-four" mulberry ... However, in order ...
          Quote: Rakti-Kali
          Naturally, it’s not Poghosyan who personally builds planes, and it is clear that they are built by designers and hard workers in factories

          Well, at least you don't deny it. And this is encouraging ...
          Quote: Rakti-Kali
          After all, Poghosyan is a really effective manager, without any quotes. And it is quite normal that he "thinks denyuzhku", that is, controls the fin. streams. This is his job

          He's terribly effective. Especially when it comes to counting money. It's true. He also tries to effectively get rid of his competitors. "Il" was too tough for him, although there were attempts. "Tupolev" practically gobbled up. And this is already a fait accompli. "Antonov" will not get it just because he is in a foreign country ...
          But even the fact that he put his grabbing little hand to the Tupole's comatose is enough to put the senior in jail ... Or do you think this is so, minuscule, like a little change in your pockets? ..
          Quote: Rakti-Kali
          Koshkin, for T-34, he did not draw any blueprints himself, moreover, he was not even the ideologist of the project, but simply brought to mind the project of the arrested on frivolous charges of wrecking Dick. However, this does not negate the fact that the legendary T-34 appeared on the arsenal of the Red Army due to precisely the organizational talent of Mikhail Ilyich

          Your truth. But only Koshkin did not saw public money. And did not interfere with the work of other design bureaus. For example, Zh.Ya. Kotin. Yes, and the T-34 was entirely from "domestic components", and not from "bourgeois", like the "Super-Jet-100", which was promoted to thawed ...
          Quote: Rakti-Kali
          Poghosyan is an excellent organizer, thanks to which Russia has the opportunity to equip its air forces with the latest aircraft and produce completely high-quality and competitive civilian vehicles

          What a loaf of pathetics is edron! .. And taperich down to the ground ...
          Pogosyanovsky cuts became parables of warriors. About the fact that he spread rot of competitors, I already wrote above. Senor Poghosyan did not develop anything new. Everything that he now issues on the mountain, in fact, is still a development of the Soviet era ...
          About the fact that Aslanovich is a big fan of the "family contract" has already been written without me ...
          And the last question - for what merits did the highest order of the Italian Republic be handed over to Senor Poghosyan? ..
          1. igor.borov775
            igor.borov775 April 5 2014 23: 34
            0
            HOW FOR TRAINING = ITS ITALIANS AND WE RETURN TOGETHER TOGETHER
            1. Chicot 1
              Chicot 1 April 6 2014 16: 14
              +1
              Quote: igor.borov775
              HOW FOR TRAINING = ITS ITALIANS AND WE RETURN TOGETHER TOGETHER

              Yes, what are you saying! .. So, so that you know - a combat training plane was riveted with Italians by the Yakovlev Design Bureau, and not Sukhoi. And we call it Yak-130 ...
              So what is the merit of Senor Poghosyan here? ..
        3. sleepy
          sleepy April 6 2014 16: 11
          +1
          Quote: Rakti-Kali

          "Naturally, it is not Poghosyan who personally builds airplanes, and it is clear that they are built by designers and hard workers at factories. But what is surprising here?"


          So M.A. Poghosyan is just a manager?
          Not versed in design and manufacturing,
          but understands and manages financial flows?

          Return S. Ilyushin, A. Tupolev, S. Korolev, I. Stalin.
          That's who knew the production and development of new technology
          and introduced advanced technology.
          Stalin and in tank building gave way to a single-tower tank T-34,
          although at that time it was not obvious.
          And M.A. Poghosyan is an effective level manager of Lee Yakokiki? Or even higher?
          1. Rakti-kali
            Rakti-kali April 6 2014 19: 12
            -4
            Quote: sleepy
            Return S. Ilyushin, A. Tupolev, S. Korolev, I. Stalin.

            I do not do necromancy.
            Quote: sleepy
            Stalin and in tank building gave way to a single-tower tank T-34, although at that time it was not obvious.

            It-ti ehooooooooh ... How it all started ... Svirin read about the history of Soviet tank building, you will be interested, just do not break the pattern from the habit.
    3. weaver85
      weaver85 April 5 2014 20: 26
      +3
      Yes, of course, Poghosyan is not alone in the answer, his hands are not growing up to heaven, all those whose interests he pursues are to blame.
      1. dmitrij.blyuz
        dmitrij.blyuz April 6 2014 19: 17
        +1
        You have read the article inattentively.
    4. 225chay
      225chay April 5 2014 23: 44
      0
      Quote: Genry
      And Poghosyan, unlike you, does his job, builds airplanes. And to whom it bothers, do planes and sell, otherwise hundreds are bought by Boeing (of course, here Poghosyan is to blame).

      Well, it is clear: Armenians are all "talented", only they can be the country's main bankers, leaders, etc. other peoples do not have such qualities ... the Armenian lobby is immediately visible and on the website they even shield and justify their own pests. very ugly sad and even disgusting ...
    5. sazhka4
      sazhka4 April 7 2014 10: 11
      +1
      No need to swear, even if you really want to. There are enough words and phrases in the Russian Language ..
  17. typhoon7
    typhoon7 April 5 2014 15: 53
    +16
    In general, I consider the destruction of Tupolev, Ilyushin (and possibly the MiG) a sabotage. To destroy factories, capacities, collectives, Bureau, developments, only in order to create this "miracle", in which our only horns and legs. All this cost the country more than one billion green rubles, and this despite the fact that due to lack of funding, other projects are being cut. The same MiG-35 is actually ready for production, it's about the money. By the way, the medium-haul is also far from all of ours. By the way, why does China buy Airbuses and Boeings buy hundreds of supers, selling S-400s and superjets, I think the links of the same chain. It is necessary to revive both the civil and military aircraft industry, and to increase production capacity. I looked at the production of the MiG, it feels like they are assembling cars in some kind of box for repairing cars, then they say that they cannot master the state. order. Therefore, they cannot, that neither the capacities nor the people.
    1. Rakti-kali
      Rakti-kali April 5 2014 17: 47
      +4
      Quote: typhoon7
      In general, I consider the destruction of Tupolev, Ilyushin (possibly MiG) a diversion.

      For the full F @ opa in the company Tu, you need to blame only the leadership of the company Tu. The state gave them money no less than Sukhoi, but they donated that money, the territories of their production and testing complexes, if they had trouble. Although no, it’s not just delays, but they deliberately plundered. And they continued to whine about the fact that no one wants to buy their suitcases without handles.
      "the Tu passenger airliner collapsed on the fly - because the Tu company produces xy-etu" (C) from the folklore of GA pilots of the late 80s.
      With Il, everything is more complicated - his production complex remained in the monkey, and there was no money to build "the same only better" for a long time. However, now the plans for the production and modernization of Ilov are enormous.
      MiG - also not Othello ... uhh ... Poghosyan strangled, and his own redneck - the 29th of course was a great machine, but a light fighter with two engines and a mass close to heavy at the moment looks anachronism. Well, in the PAK FA program, betting on outdated 1.44 was the height of naivete.
      Quote: typhoon7
      "miracle", in which our only horns and legs.

      Quote: typhoon7
      By the way, the medium-haul is also far from all of ours.

      Well, first of all, how did you want? Now NOBODY collects civil aircraft "purely by himself, and only from his own", because under such a scheme, they will either undergo certification for 20 years, or cost more than their weight in gold, or will be assembled from any g @ vna admitted to production only because it is domestic, which will not add to their competitiveness in foreign markets.
      And secondly, just about 2/3 of the "miracle" consists of domestic, and every year the localization is growing.
      Yes, and in the end I will throw a "poisoned halberd" - the "medium-haul" is not sculpted by Sukhovtsy, but even Yakovlevtsy.
      1. Sergh
        Sergh April 5 2014 19: 12
        +7
        Quote: Rakti-Kali
        Now NOBODY assembles civil aircraft "purely by himself, and only from his own"

        Why did you lose your temper, bro, you can be quieter, otherwise plug your ears.
        So you say nobody collects himself? Yeah, we used to collect all our lives, we collect practically everything for the warriors, but now, suddenly, we can't. Well, everything is clear with amers, they chop carrots in China, they save cents. And the bourgeois do not collect everything, but only because the whole of Europe is only one Yakutia, and therefore it is not possible for the Hunters to collect their Arbus alone. Likewise, MisRal is scrubbed by the bottom of the barrel throughout Europe. And about certification and a piece of gold, this is your delusional amateur performance on the go, invented and out of hand ... Your SuperJiday, our Novosibirsk Tolmachevo cannot accept, the engines scrabble on concrete, but oh well, enough for the day, it's time to go to the cradle.
      2. sleepy
        sleepy April 6 2014 16: 32
        +3
        Quote: Rakti-Kali
        "For the complete ... in firm Tu, one should blame only the management of firm Tu.
        The state gave them money no less than Sukhoi, but they gave this money, the territories of their production and testing complex ...
        quite deliberately plundered. And they kept whining about
        that no one wants to buy their suitcases without handles ... "


        What kind of state gave money to Tu?
        The USSR gave, it was a matter.
        In the Russian Federation, the interests of Boeing were lobbied.

        “Unfortunately, recently there has been an extremely dangerous tendency of thoughtless lobbying of the interests of the domestic aircraft building complex on the part of government agencies. We ask you to support the question of the inadmissibility of the serial launch of the Tu-204 aircraft on Russian air routes and the continuation of the doctrine of leasing advanced models of western aircraft. " ...

        "To make a decision on full exemption for a period of five years from customs duties, dues and taxes for Boeing-750 aircraft, Douglas-DS10 aircraft imported into the territory of the Russian Federation in 1994-1995
        and operated on domestic and international airlines. "
        (Order of the Chairman of the Government of the Russian Federation V. Chernomyrdin N 1489Р
        October 7, 1996)
        http://kan-kendarat.livejournal.com/17641.html
        1. sleepy
          sleepy April 6 2014 16: 41
          +4
          "You had to have a rare idiocy to automatically transfer the tracing paper of Western production to a Soviet factory. Because our factories are
          it is a fundamentally different structure, organized completely differently.
          Factories lived according to the laws of the family. They worked together, lived in the same houses, rested together, treated together, raised children together.
          7 sponsored schools were at the Aviation Plant.
          The factory was in order: there is no housing - you get a hostel, after 3-4 years they give "youth housing" (a hotel type apartment), after 10 years - a normal apartment. Long? Let's compare. Now my friends took a two-room apartment on a mortgage. Now for 29 years they will pay 31 thousand rubles a month. And in vain they hope to gain something on inflation: trying to outwit the bankers is an empty idea, because at one moment they will unilaterally review any terms of any agreement. And if you delayed the payment a little (everything happens in life: an operation, dismissal from work) - they throw out a flat under the white sky. Now in progressive America there are already whole tent cities of the hapless mortgage (written in April 2008, before the crisis).

          Taking care of the workers was profitable. Because the production was organized on the principle of the Russian artel. We will talk more about what an artel is, and how its laws are ineradicably sitting in our brains and souls. This is the very mystery of the Russian worker, over which the Western masters are puzzling. And precisely because they will not "drive in" in any way, all strikes in Russia take place precisely at foreign enterprises. I’ll explain everything on my fingers, and at the same time I’m not a bit afraid that I will reveal our secret to foreigners: they still won’t understand, because we look at the world with different eyes. Artel is a wildly effective principle of labor organization! Japan's economic miracles are based on the same pattern: artel, family. Strange as it may seem, with the Japanese, our brains are similar.
          But with the Americans - no.
          On this artel, family principle, we mastered industrialization at a frantic pace and recovered after the war.
          We even canceled cards before America and England.
          (Of course, that they had a card system, they are silent now).

          The factory is your home, The factory is your family. And if you are not drunk hopeless, then everything will be all right with you, just work!
          So they worked on the Aviation - with all their might and enthusiasm. 100 aircraft per year.
          9 handsome "TU" every month flew into the sky from the factory airfield.
          And spit in the eyes of the one who says that we had bad airplanes.
          These were the most reliable and safest aircraft in the world!
          Not a single accident was on the TU-154 due to the fault of the glider.
          Once upon a time, 100 planes flew up from here to the sky.
          Now at Aviakor they dream of 10.
          Data for February 2008: from 28 thousand workers at the Plant left
          3,5 thousand. "

          http://kan-kendarat.livejournal.com/17641.html
        2. Rakti-kali
          Rakti-kali April 6 2014 19: 34
          -1
          Quote: sleepy
          What kind of state gave money to Tu?

          The state of Russia.
          Quote: sleepy
          To make a decision on full exemption for a period of five years from taxation of duties, fees and taxes of Boeing - 750 aircraft

          So take and compare the Tu-204, a 1989 model car, with a Boeing 757, a 1982 car, and tell the whole honest people what the Tu-204 is not inferior to Boeing. I'm already interested. I look forward to it.
    2. 225chay
      225chay April 5 2014 23: 52
      +3
      Quote: typhoon7
      In general, I consider the destruction of Tupolev, Ilyushin (possibly MiG) a diversion. Destroy factories, capacities, collectives, bureaus,


      Whatever the hands of such Pagasyans touch, the destruction of bankruptcy will certainly be cut ... if I am not mistaken, the Moscow automobile plant seems Babayan went bankrupt? correct if I'm wrong ...
      1. alicante11
        alicante11 April 7 2014 03: 27
        -1
        Is Humpback also Armenians? Or EBN is Azerbaijani? Or is Chubais a Chechen redhead? Or Chernomyrdin is the Baltic braked? PR what are you doing here?
        This was visible under socialism, while under capitalism it was clogged with rubbish of advertising and lobbying interests, kickbacks, cuts. Therefore, no matter how golden your plane is, if you can’t sell, no state will help.
        I say, stop pouring guan over the domestic aviation industry. And the dry one has jambs and carcasses not of a child prodigy. But they are still normal planes. At the level.
  18. dizelniy
    dizelniy April 5 2014 16: 02
    +10
    Manturov is a sociologist, probably this is enough for characterization.
  19. targitai
    targitai April 5 2014 16: 03
    +10
    Most likely will come out of the water dry. There are still a bunch of untouchables. The same Serdyukov earned on the tower, and received an amnesty. And his girlfriend scored everything, doesn’t go to interrogations, doesn’t want to get acquainted with the case. And lives in a luxury apartment. An ordinary person would have been knocked on the liver for a bag of potatoes a long time ago, and for billions a humane house arrest.
    1. 52
      52 April 5 2014 16: 28
      +4
      No, it seems it will not work. It seems like something is changing in the Russian State ...
  20. konvalval
    konvalval April 5 2014 16: 11
    +2
    Quote: konvalval
    Are these Manturov and Poghosyan, like a little redhead, also untouchable? There is no government on them? It turns out that there are no issues to be resolved with Crimea, but with these in no way, as my three-year-old great-granddaughter says. Drive, and maybe plant.

    As I understand it, they put manturs and burned down, and the rusty one had not had time yet.
    1. Siberian19
      Siberian19 April 5 2014 16: 16
      +4
      tooting!
  21. Grbear
    Grbear April 5 2014 16: 14
    +6
    April 8 initiative State Duma Defense Committee should take place closed hearings - are waiting for the president of the United Aircraft Corporation (UAC), Mikhail Poghosyan.


    Apparently the tension meter is off scale. If only not to "pulled".
  22. afdjhbn67
    afdjhbn67 April 5 2014 16: 24
    +5
    Quote: Su24
    Another anti-Poghosyan criticism with exaggerations and distortions. The author absolutely does not want to consider the situation in dynamics, and as a result, does not give any real practical recommendations. Just an emotional cry from the heart.
    in something it seems like a run-in, but the realities are present, it’s necessary that the author of the MAP correctly writes an independent body, but for now there’s an opportunity — whatever I want, I will turn it over and it’s necessary, I have to shake the top of the aircraft industry for a long time ..
    1. scientist
      scientist April 5 2014 18: 41
      +7
      even the most rabid representatives of all kinds of “sectors” will not dare to break the existing Russian-Ukrainian cooperation in the aircraft industry and arrange an anti-Maidan explosion in the south-east of the country

      It’s naive who this can stop now, if for the sake of their vile goals they cold-bloodedly shot hundreds of people, including their own, dunk Muzychko and are now confident in their victory and, of course, impunity on the roof of the United States. For the sake of destroying Russian-Ukrainian ties, all this canoe was organized by the CIA. Does anyone else have doubts?
      And Pagosyat is a greenhouse victim of his own ambitions, who imagines himself the king in a huge corporation, creating himself a state in the state. If such people are not let down from heaven to earth, sooner or later they turn into criminals and a big state problem.
    2. sleepy
      sleepy April 6 2014 16: 49
      +1
      Quote: Su24
      "Another anti-Poghosyan criticism with exaggerations and distortions. The author does not want to consider the situation in dynamics, and as a result, does not give any real practical recommendations. Just an emotional cry from the heart."


      Just an emotional cry from the soul.
      But the material continues to accumulate on the Internet.
      On this topic has already been
      "Why does Poghosyan's tail wiggle the rest of the dog? August 12, 2013"
      http://topwar.ru/31640-pochemu-hvost-pogosyana-vertit-ostalnoy-sobakoy.html
  23. konvalval
    konvalval April 5 2014 16: 33
    +1
    Quote: konvalval
    Quote: konvalval
    Are these Manturov and Poghosyan, like a little redhead, also untouchable? There is no government on them? It turns out that there are no issues to be resolved with Crimea, but with these in no way, as my three-year-old great-granddaughter says. Drive, and maybe plant.

    As I understand it, they put manturs and burned down, and the rusty one had not had time yet.

    That rusty bit drew.
  24. irek
    irek April 5 2014 16: 35
    +5
    need to get rid of these people they are agents of foreign states
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. 225chay
      225chay April 7 2014 00: 05
      -1
      Quote: irek
      need to get rid of these people they are agents of foreign states

      not just understand, but plant until the end of their days or shoot!
  25. UREC
    UREC April 5 2014 16: 35
    +7
    The situation with the industry is not simple, here it is necessary to assemble and deal with a competent commission. Now such a strategic direction as the civil aviation industry should tightly control the state if it wants economic growth.
  26. Eaero
    Eaero April 5 2014 16: 38
    +9
    We must definitely ask how some important Russian military aviation technologies turned out to belong to a certain company from Southeast Asia and now we have to pay a lot of money for them.
    And at the same time to find out who actually owns this company.
    In 2008, I was beguiling the director of the TANTK them. Beriev build 2 pcs. firefighters and 2 pcs. passenger Be-200 with 80% prepayment, and guaranteed an option for another 6 pcs. As a result, it was said that in the foreseeable future I have no chance due to a sluggish transfer of production from Irkutsk to Taganrog, and in general, they cried that everything was very bad with production prospects.
    1. oldstaryi
      oldstaryi April 6 2014 12: 20
      0
      In, in! And the FSB, we can only wring out business! They do not care about the homeland!
    2. The comment was deleted.
  27. Giant thought
    Giant thought April 5 2014 16: 40
    +4
    If Poghosyan’s personal activity brings at least part of the damage specified in the article, then the most peaceful outcome for him would be his resignation. Under Stalin, they were shot for such matters. I believe that in this matter there should be a nationwide approach, and not narrow industry goals, the so-called parochial patriotism.
  28. aeroliga-66
    aeroliga-66 April 5 2014 16: 46
    +5
    The article is really +++! Only Che for a rat minus the adequate comments on the case? The same vrazhiny as the hostess with the mantour and red
    1. 225chay
      225chay April 5 2014 23: 57
      -1
      Quote: aeroliga-66
      ! Only Che for a rat minus the adequate comments on the case? The same vrazhiny as vagabond with a manture and red

      Armenian lobby ...)
  29. polkownik1
    polkownik1 April 5 2014 16: 56
    +10
    OAK is not needed at all! Whoever leads it, the UAC will remain a structure - a parasite. Need the Ministry of the aviation industry and a set of design bureaus. For some reason, Mr. Manturov and the company do not question the need for the existence of the Ministry of Trade. And this is in a market economy!
    1. Genry
      Genry April 5 2014 17: 42
      +2
      But in general, who dared to build airplanes in Russia?
      Bury Poghosyan!

      Liberastam URAaa !!!
      Give Boeing and Volktsvygen !!!
      Prosrat all polymers !!!
    2. typhoon7
      typhoon7 April 5 2014 20: 11
      +2
      I agree to all 100%.
  30. targitai
    targitai April 5 2014 17: 01
    +4
    Quote: 52gim
    No, it seems it will not work. It seems like something is changing in the Russian State ...

    I don’t know, I don’t know ... If it were changing, then the heart would be sitting.
  31. Cristall
    Cristall April 5 2014 17: 02
    +1
    somehow strange in the article - "bad Pogosyan" and "good Rogozin" ..
    how cute.
    Is Rogozin so pure and blameless?
    In general, all the "upper" people have long lost their fear .... Serdyukovshchina is a bad example.
  32. evil hamster
    evil hamster April 5 2014 17: 14
    -7
    The article is another vyser, full of delirium to the top of the head. It’s generally difficult to single out something here, this text is beautiful. But of course the sentence especially delivered, about the An148 supposedly de - this is not an import aircraft, but of course there are no options at all that Boguslaeva is bent and this device will remain without engines that you are not what you are. I don’t even want to sting so stupidly.
  33. Old_ret
    Old_ret April 5 2014 17: 33
    +15
    The personnel system itself needs to be changed and the representatives of Boeing and Airbus are driven from our universities, in Samara Aerocos, for example, they have settled down and all talented young people are lured to themselves, because once there was a regime institution.
  34. Lone gunman
    Lone gunman April 5 2014 17: 41
    +4
    ))) ... but I thought, but here is where the dog is buried - Poghosyan and even Gaidar, by the way, Gaidar has already died for 5 years, and "retired" with his retinue more than 10 years ago, but things are still There. Especially my opinion of a "little" man - so, if Russia entered into long-term contracts around the world for the construction of aircraft, then we would not produce 1-2 units, but 100-200 units per year, then I would not I am very familiar with the technical characteristics of our passenger aircraft, but I think they are not much worse, or maybe better than Western counterparts, but the question is the comfort of both the service structures and the passenger itself, I think that Boeing and Airbass are better in terms of comfort than those Tu, An and Il, we now live not in a command-administrative system, but in a market one, and a passenger and a company like Aeroflot vote with money, the whole problem is that we have not reorganized yet, especially the visitors of this highly respected site, in one word - MANAGEMENT (management) and the struggle for the sales market - that's what the problem is, and not all sorts ofconspiracy theories.
  35. cahekmosa
    cahekmosa April 5 2014 17: 41
    -3
    bullshit, not an article. Neither fact, nikher confirmed. Not a single name, not a single company name, not a single digit. ARTICLE - Crap.
    1. Stinger
      Stinger April 5 2014 19: 27
      -3
      I agree. Impotent Viagra is always to blame.
  36. Sergey Eagle
    Sergey Eagle April 5 2014 17: 48
    +7
    In reality, domestic aviation (at least civilian) has almost completely lost ground. In the 70s, 80s, 90s, the whole country flew practically on domestic aircraft and it was available even to cadets of military schools. Instead of improving their native aviation, the Gaidarites and other democrats decided to destroy it. And they got their way. Why do we need high-tech production of semiconductors and microcircuits? or aviation? We will be a "gas station" for Americans. It is easier to destroy high-tech production for the sake of immediate benefits, but it takes a lot of time to restore. The Superjet story is very vague and requires litigation to ensure that it is in the interests of the state. Perhaps Rogozin will need help from the president to establish the true state of affairs with aviation.
  37. gozmosZh
    gozmosZh April 5 2014 17: 55
    +6
    AiF have long uncovered this topic.

    An open letter to President V.V. Putin

    http://argumenti.ru/politics/n415/299811

    subscribed:
    Hero of the Soviet Union, space pilot
    Wolf Igor Petrovich;
    Heroes of Russia, Honored Test Pilots of the Russian Federation:
    Yesayan Ruben Tatevosovich,
    Knyshov Anatoly Nikolaevich,
    Matveyev Vladimir Nikolaevich,
    Tolboev Magomed Omarovich,
    Shchepetkov Oleg Adolfovich;
    Hero of Russia, aerospace systems tester
    Kiryushin Evgeny Aleksandrovich
    1. Genry
      Genry April 5 2014 18: 21
      -3
      Half-truths are not true.
      Vote for Tu but bury Su, doesn't it seem stupid?

      And the Tu334 is shit and not a plane. Old, flawed 134 podshamanili and try to suck in. If someone wanted to buy it, two pieces would not stand in the sump.
  38. Fiero
    Fiero April 5 2014 18: 31
    +4
    1) The author of the article "Superbudget for the" Superjet "" (analysis and link to the article here), journalist of "Moskovsky Komsomolets", Olga Bozhieva in 2011 received an award from ... "Motor Sich".
    2) Vladimir Leonov, the author of "Arguments of the Week" articles praising Motor Sich and scolding the Superjet, also received an award from Motor Sich.
    __________________________________________________________

    I thought for the majority here, and so everything is clear ... A no.
    And why this rubbish in general drag on the portal?
  39. bddrus
    bddrus April 5 2014 18: 39
    +1
    Everything is correct - there are no Jacob, no MIGs, Ilov and Tushek have been lost, now it's time to take Sukhoi - here are his "experts"
  40. typhoon7
    typhoon7 April 5 2014 18: 39
    +8
    Quote: bomg.77
    MiG company, behave like scoundrels! How tensions arise in the country, they throw a vile article. It was after the disaster in Kazan, they tried to earn points on their blood. Pogosyan is not an angel, but trying to replace him is not a fact that we will get an angel. MiG firm I would advise you to study and spend money on airplanes, and not on articles and writers.

    What does the company have to do with it? If Mr. Poghosyan was awarded powers to the skies, then he should lobby the interests of the entire aviation industry. He could take to France with Sushka and MiG, but this was not. He took the drone project for himself, although it was the MiG that advanced in this direction, and the PAKDA project, he took it from Tupolev, does not seem to you that this is already lawlessness. What was easier for the state to do was to modernize the production of Tupolev and Ilyushin (who have dozens of years of experience) or invest more than a dozen billion bucks in this super one (where your only glider and landing gear), for the sale of which the S-400 goes to China (China these Super are not needed, he can afford cool Airbuses and Boeings, and our aircraft industry is now breathing in the wings) At one time, he shut up Kuznetsov’s engines. And MiG is commanded by a decent man and patriot of his country. The company is state-owned and directly dependent on the state. the budget through whom these funds move you do not need to explain. He, as the head of the KLA, must push cars on the foreign market.
  41. Fiero
    Fiero April 5 2014 18: 56
    +2
    Our Ukrainian friends, of course, take care of the Russian civil aviation industry more than anyone else in the world ...
    And they only want to help us, paying Leonov’s prizes ...
    It is sad that here too many people think that we owe it to the banderlogs forever.
  42. gozmosZh
    gozmosZh April 5 2014 19: 10
    +6
    In our country, there are several promising aircraft, and the MC21 is not among them, but the TU334 is strangled and not allowed for production, because this plane will bury all this gang-watering under the acronym GSS.
    Tu 334 is a ready-made project for a long time, and many billions are not needed to launch it into series, which without a trace dissolve in a vacuum for "design" "testing" "agreement" "assessment and certification" and so on blah-blah-blah when launched in a series of aircraft from scratch. Moreover, in spite of all the enormous costs, "Superjet" for some reason still turned out to be a designer from imported components. What is more interesting for aviation officials - to handle large flows of dough or small ones?

    Sukhoi's firm has been making and is making excellent fighters, but has never dealt with passenger aircraft, and this is not the same thing. Likewise, the Yakovlevites were mainly engaged in fighters and sports aircraft, with the exception of the short-haul Yak-40 and Yak-42. The main suppliers of passenger liners were Tupolev Design Bureau (Tu-104,124,134,154,144,204,214) and Ilyushin (Il-12,14,18,62,62M, 96). For the sake of western "partners" the strongest design bureaus of Ilyushin and Tupolev were destroyed! Instead of them, manufacturers of military equipment began to take up passenger aircraft, so it is impossible to create a normal aircraft in 10 years, even at the expense of huge budgetary investments from the state. I think that the sooner the Sukhoi Civil Aircraft budget sawing company goes bankrupt, the better it will be for our aviation industry, because competent and honest leaders may come to the leadership of the aviation industry and, unlike the former minister Khristenko and the president of the aircraft building corporation Poghosyan, they will stop pushing the unpromising project Superjet-100 and will pay attention to domestic modern developments of Tu-204, 214 which have been successfully flying for 10 years, Tu-334, which was certified 10 years ago and is still not produced in series by the efforts of the above persons. I am sure that the last word has not been said for the wide-body long-haul (10 thousand km) Il-96. But all these planes need to be dealt with not from the point of view of financiers, but from the point of view of problems by engineers and technicians. Unfortunately, all of today's madhouse in the aviation industry was paid for 20 years ago and was created by the faithful associates of Boeing's capital! Until they make decisions, there will be no revival of the Russian aircraft industry!
  43. Fiero
    Fiero April 5 2014 19: 12
    0
    Well, at least for the same An-70
    Of the three An-70s built, one crashed to the ground back in 1995, burying a crew of seven under its rubble, the other made a “rough emergency landing”, breaking in half. Well :
    http://www.airforce.ru/content/okb-antonova/58-70-vzlet-i-padenie/

    Instead of the oath promised by the company of 8800 km and the requested Air Force of at least 8000 km, the "seventies" mastered only 6580 km. And this is at a time when the representatives of ANTK them. OK. Antonov with honest eyes told "enlightened Europe" that their wonderful An-7X is capable of not only "effortlessly taking" the specified range, but even doing it with a very decent cargo on board (the company promised that the An-7X would transport 20 tons to 7400 km). In addition, the aircraft had problems with cruising speed (instead of the declared “up to 800 km / h” the An-70 barely kept about 700 km / h) and a number of other “mission inconsistencies”.
  44. Fiero
    Fiero April 5 2014 19: 13
    -1
    The main reason for going beyond the permissible deviations from the given characteristics was in the power plant. At the same time, not only “the basic technical data of the D-27 engine and the rotor fan (a specific type of propeller - Prim. SG) SV-27 were not achieved”, but it turned out that the joint creation of the Zaporizhzhya machine-building design bureau “Progress” and Motor Sich OJSC (this same D-27) has disgusting reliability. Only during the first stage of state testing (completed by the end of 2001) did 168 take place !!!!!! serious malfunctions, of which 30 were related to cases of so-called "surge" (when, "having incorrectly swallowed air and unsuccessfully mixed it with fuel", the engine, figuratively speaking, "put two fingers in his mouth and coughed loudly" is a very dangerous phenomenon even on multi-engine aircraft). And in 22 cases (once for every 47 flight hours), at least one of the 4 turbo-fan engines (TVVD) of the D-27 of the tested aircraft simply ... turned itself off !!! flight.
  45. Mainbeam
    Mainbeam April 5 2014 19: 34
    +4
    Here they are - traitors to the motherland.

    The liberal and marketer E. Gaidar generally considered his own civilian aircraft industry to be a whim; aviation marshal E. Shaposhnikov, when he was CEO of Aeroflot, opened a window for Boeing and Airbus to enter the Russian market. Former Minister of Industry and Trade V. Khristenko publicly announced the closure of the Il-96 program, Prime Minister Dm. Medvedev regularly demanded a ban on flights of one or the other domestic aircraft. But today, the Ministry of Industry and Trade is headed by D. Manturov, the UAC - by M. Poghosyan ... Apparently, the state will not reach the executor in the person of Poghosyan - to build his own planes, to develop his own aviation industry.

    Even in the 1996 year, Khristenko considered responsible for the collapse of the domestic aviation industry.

    And to consolidate the result, I will quote:
    Quote: Cetegg
    To the Chairman of the Government of the Russian Federation.
    V.V. To Putin

    Dear Vladimir Vladimirovich!

    Recently, at a meeting with Aeroflot CEO V. Savelyev You criticized him for the insufficient use of Russian-made aircraft. Allow me to consider this a praise to me, our Red Wings airline operates the largest number of domestic airliners in the country - 8 TU 204 aircraft. And not a single foreign car.

    Since 2006, I have subsidized Red Wings Airlines for reasons of principle. The reason for the loss is, firstly, excessive leasing rates from Ilyushin Finance Co., (our partnership with the Government with 2000, where I invested about 5,5 billion rubles without any income), - about 12 million rubles / month with similar rates on foreign cars 2 times lower!

    The second reason is dumping on the charter transport market by state-owned companies that easily and unconsciously fly at a loss (Atlant-Soyuz, Orenburg Airlines, KMV-airlines, etc.) Why wouldn’t we sell the carrying capacity seat at 20-30% lower than cost, if the growing debt doesn’t bother anyone (closes the budget), and the “financial result” (at least one billion rubles a year) brings a tour operator, especially Turkish, to state management in a box from a photocopy machine.

    We add to this that insignificant subsidies on leasing rates are paid by Red Wings by the Ministry of Transport not always and with a delay of up to a year, and VAT is almost not returned.

    In other words, the cause of the losses is not our bad management, and not the bad planes. These reasons (easily eliminated at the request of the Government) are beyond our control. Given the above circumstances, as well as the catastrophe in agriculture, the failure of the individual housing market, the crisis of default on loans NRC is unlikely to be able to subsidize Red Wings endlessly.

    From my (one-way) correspondence with the Ministry of Economic Development and the Ministry of Transport, I realized that these departments are not interested in either the fate of Red Wings, the fate of the IFC, or the embezzlement in the public sector in the field of air transportation. Although these companies are closely related - revenue from Red Wings with 2007. is one of the main sources of income for IFC.

    In my opinion, the approach of these departments to their duties is at least non-state. I hope that I can’t be blamed for the lack of efforts, if you want, for patriotism, for saving the aircraft industry or for not wanting to exploit Russian aircraft.

    I ask you to instruct the Ministry of Transport to take measures to restore order in the airline industry, and the Ministry of Economic Development to take an active part in the fate of the system-forming Ilyushin Finance company for the aviation industry.
  46. Signaller
    Signaller April 5 2014 19: 35
    +1
    What are you friends talking about ??? About Poghosyan ??? General Director of the United Aviation Corporation. ??? Okshnutsya (find out in Russian) friends. He has a pocket. The pocket is large with a flap, but the fact that it fell into the pocket is his. The valve opens in only one direction. . Therefore, everything is done in order to fall there. Pull out of the pocket and put in the case --- the valve interferes. Therefore, you will never wait for investments from such people with a pocket and a valve. Only in your mammon. The rest ???? Do not wait.
  47. Thompson
    Thompson April 5 2014 19: 36
    +3
    Quote: Su24
    Another anti-Poghosyan criticism with exaggerations and distortions. The author absolutely does not want to consider the situation in dynamics, and as a result, does not give any real practical recommendations. Just an emotional cry from the heart

    Yes, I would not be so one-sided in the assessment. I think few people doubt that there is still some lobbying on the part of POGHOSYAN. And it’s not necessary to make the auto industry from our aircraft industry, i.e. to produce one Zhiguliner. Our country should produce the whole range of aircraft, from micro to macro, and not be limited to a super-mega-gadget!
    There must be competition, not monopoly! (although that and others, we have in a perverted form) More precisely, the will of the POWER must be!
  48. jindol47
    jindol47 April 5 2014 19: 38
    0
    History repeats itself only on another coil of the spiral. Poghosyan is the policy of Tupolev, who crushed Myasishchev and Sukhoi
    1. sleepy
      sleepy April 6 2014 17: 01
      +1
      A. Tupolev did not lobby for the foreign aircraft industry to the detriment of the domestic one.

      "Tupolev knew how to build airplanes, and Stalin knew Tupolev."
      http://topwar.ru/37351-aleksandr-roslyakov-tupolev-umel-stroit-samolety-a-stalin
      -tupoleva.html # comment
  49. Cossacks
    Cossacks April 5 2014 19: 51
    +1
    Poghosyan in the aircraft industry is also the same as the former MO Taburetkin in the army. And for some reason everyone asks who is behind them. Well, a very difficult question.
  50. Captain45
    Captain45 April 5 2014 19: 56
    +7
    As if, without going into too much drinking and disagreement between companies, I want to find out or hear from knowledgeable people: HERE, damn it, WHY, UNTIL 2008, the Norilsk-Moscow ticket cost about 154oo on a Tu-8,5, like a damn, came "Nord_star "with my Boeings, so the ticket cost 20 thousand rubles and this is not in season. Summer is August-September and it reaches 35
    1. 16112014nk
      16112014nk April 5 2014 21: 55
      +4
      The limitless greed of our air officials.
    2. 16112014nk
      16112014nk April 5 2014 21: 55
      0
      The limitless greed of our air officials.