Military Review

Risks of cooperation and development of the aviation industry

100
Over the past weeks, the new Ukrainian authorities regularly make various statements regarding further relations with Russia. Official Moscow is accused of a variety of unfriendly actions. In addition, there are threats to break cooperation in various fields. It should be noted that some Ukrainian defense enterprises that supply products to Russia or receive necessary components from Russian partners have already announced their plans. They are not going to break existing ties and refuse to fulfill existing contracts.


Nevertheless, the unstable political situation in Kiev can turn out in a most unexpected way, and Russia should take all the risks into account. For example, an unpleasant surprise for our country may be Ukraine’s refusal to continue cooperation in the construction of aircraft. Currently, Russian and Ukrainian aircraft manufacturers are jointly building cargo and passenger aircraft An-140 and An-148. In addition, in the Russian armed forces and commercial structures there is a sufficiently large number of other aircraft developed by Antonov. Termination of cooperation may to some extent complicate their further exploitation.

To protect the industry, military and air carriers from a possible break of cooperation, it is required to take appropriate measures. The most convenient and promising method of protection against such a gap is the development and construction of its own transport and passenger aircraft of the required classes. Russian aircraft manufacturers already have some experience in this area, but it will take time to complete all the necessary work.


IL-76MD-XNUMHA, photo http://aereo.ru


In the context of cooperation with Ukraine and protection against possible risks should be remembered history military transport aircraft Il-76MD-90А. The aircraft Il-76 for several decades were built on the Tashkent Aviation Production Association. V.P. Chkalov (TAPOiCH). After the collapse of the Soviet Union, the Uzbek aircraft manufacturers experienced constant problems, and over time, the production of new aircraft almost ceased. In the two thousandth years, repeated attempts were made to restore the production potential of TAPOiCh, including with the entry of the enterprise into the Russian United Aircraft Building Corporation.

As a result of lengthy negotiations, the Russian and Uzbek sides did not come to a consensus, which was the reason for further events. Aviation complex to them. S.V. Ilyushin created a new modification of the Il-76 aircraft under the name Il-76MD-90A, the production of which was launched at the Aviastar-SP Ulyanovsk plant. The production of IL-76MD-90A aircraft will allow updating the fleet of military transport aviation equipment of the Russian Air Force, as well as insuring the military against possible problems with enterprises of foreign countries.

In mid-March in the Aviation Complex. S.V. Ilyushin held a meeting devoted to the future of the Russian aircraft industry. During this event, the issue of cooperation with Ukraine was raised. According to V. Livanov, General Director and General Designer of the Ilyushin Company, the construction of Il-76MD-90А aircraft is associated with certain risks. 35 names of finished products used in the construction of new transport aircraft, supplied by Ukrainian enterprises. Due to the difficult political and economic situation in the neighboring state, Russian enterprises may have to look for a replacement for Ukrainian components.

Another topic discussed at a recent meeting was the development of new transport aircraft, which should replace existing equipment in the future. The leaders of the aircraft industry and Deputy Prime Minister D. Rogozin came to the conclusion that it was necessary to continue work on IL-112В projects. In addition, in the near future should be determined the prospects and the future of the project IL-114.


IL-112V


The creation of the IL-112 aircraft began in the early nineties, but for various reasons, the project was delayed. Within the framework of the IL-112 project, it is planned to create two planes - the military transport Il-112В and the commercial passenger IL-112Т. Documentation on the new aircraft was ready in the first half of the last decade, and for the 2007-2008 years it was planned to build an installation batch of new aircraft. In the future, the plans were repeatedly corrected, and in the summer of 2011, the Voronezh Joint-Stock Aircraft Building Company ceased construction of the first prototype of the IL-112В military transport aircraft. After some time, information appeared about the continuation of the project.


IL-114


IL-112 aircraft are often considered as a possible replacement for the obsolete An-26, the construction of which was completed in the mid-eighties. New technologies allowed the authors of the IL-112 project to develop an aircraft that surpasses the old An-26 in terms of carrying capacity. At maximum load, the IL-112 family of aircraft will be able to carry up to 6 tons of cargo. With smaller dimensions and take-off weight, the Il-112 should have flight characteristics at the An-26 level. In operation, the new aircraft should be much more profitable than the old one, which should be achieved by new engines, onboard equipment, etc.

It should be noted that the decision to resume work on the IL-112 project was made last year. As part of the state defense order for the current 2014 year, funding is provided for further work to create a promising military transport aircraft. Conclusion of a contract between the Ministry of Defense and the Aviation Complex named after S.V. Ilyushin was scheduled for this year. In December last year, Deputy Minister of Defense Y. Borisov said that upon completion of the development work, another agreement will be signed, this time concerning the serial production of equipment. The first IL-112В aircraft must be handed over to the customer in 2017 year.

The number of required IL-112В aircraft is estimated at several dozen units. It is noteworthy that the new IL aircraft can replace not only the old An-26, but also the new An-140, which are jointly built by Russian and Ukrainian enterprises. Last autumn, in an interview for Vedomosti, V. Livanov noted that the An-140 aircraft, despite the already launched mass production, has some problems that may affect its future. First of all, the head of the Ilyushin company recalled the requirements for a promising light military transport aircraft, formed ten years ago. According to Livanov, Il-112В, unlike An-140, fully corresponds to them. In addition, the joint production of An-140 aircraft is associated with some serious risks. Thus, the fuselage of these aircraft is assembled by the Aviakor plant in Samara, and the Kharkiv State Aviation Production Enterprise (KSAMC) is responsible for the delivery of the wing. The state of the latter raises some concerns: the supply of important units may suddenly cease.

If you do not take into account the fact that the An-140 aircraft are already being mass-produced, and the assembly of the first IL-112В prototype was suspended several years ago, then the chances of both machines for further production look about equal, and the Russian-designed aircraft can be considered a good alternative to technology co-production. Both Il-112B and An-140 have both advantages and disadvantages, however recent events can change the situation. The extremely unstable situation in Ukrainian politics and economics, among other things, may affect the further fate of the joint project to build the An-140 aircraft and its recently created modifications. In this case, the solution to the problem of creating a light military transport aircraft becomes IL-112В.

As we see, the current Ukrainian crisis can not only affect the international situation, but also spur certain sectors of the Russian industry. The risks associated with Russian-Ukrainian cooperation can be leveled out by developing their own projects of the relevant direction. In the case of transport aviation, the solution to a problem with a possible break in cooperation will be the design and construction of self-developed aircraft.

It will take some time to fulfill such plans, but the result will justify all the costs - the fleet of military and commercial transport planes will not depend on foreign enterprises with ambiguous prospects. At the same time, such a program will help support its own industry, which will also have a positive effect on domestic aviation.


On the materials of the sites:
http://ria.ru/
http://vedomosti.ru/
http://vz.ru/
http://vpk-news.ru/
http://interfax.ru/
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  1. Aeneas
    Aeneas April 4 2014 08: 02
    -32%
    to the fullness of the picture, it should also be pointed out that Dmitry Rogozin, vice-premier for the military-industrial complex, and general director Ilyushin Viktor Livanov, turned out to be relatives by accident. They have a woman in common - in one person Rogozin’s sister and Livanov’s wife.
    1. afire
      afire April 4 2014 08: 30
      +40
      if this does not interfere with work, but rather accelerates it, and with a cup of evening coffee you can work through additional questions, then this is vice versa. In general, the personal affairs of these people are not our business. You no longer notice the forests in your eye.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. samoletil18
      samoletil18 April 4 2014 08: 37
      +21
      Quote: Aeneas
      They have a woman in common

      Well, even if only this will restore the Russian aviation industry and turn it into an independent industry independent of foreign allies, then I am not opposed.
      1. platitsyn70
        platitsyn70 April 4 2014 10: 04
        +8
        the main thing is that this work does not interfere, and who is sleeping with whom or other family affairs is all their own business, they don’t get into your bed, and they won’t ask for a candle.
      2. Aeneas
        Aeneas April 4 2014 10: 48
        0
        Duc, but hto against the contrary against such a good deed !?
    4. Dromac
      Dromac April 4 2014 11: 10
      +6
      Quote: Aeneas
      They have a woman in common.

      The main thing is that not a common man. And then it would look European ...
      When they come to power, their own team should always be with them. No way without it. And many see this as corruption only, there isn’t enough brains for more, especially if it’s just a blogger who writes about it, and he doesn’t dig it with his ear.
      1. Aeneas
        Aeneas April 4 2014 11: 22
        -7
        that "common man" is already there too ... Thank God, not "in a European way." This is the Minister of Education of Russia - he is common for Rogozin (nephew) and Livanov (son).
      2. aksakal
        aksakal April 4 2014 13: 28
        +4
        Quote: Dromac
        The main thing is that not a common man. And then it would look European ...

        - no, we didn’t agree on Airbus, we are purely Russian, well, to the extremes with a small share of foreign components
        1. VAF
          VAF April 4 2014 14: 05
          +1
          Quote: aksakal
          we love purely Russian, well, to the extreme, with a small share of foreign aircraft components


          To us ... is this to whom ??? wink

          A question and then ... an explanation. Why "this question was born" wassat

          1.On March 26, 2014, Transaero Airlines and Chinese leasing company ICBCLeasing signed an agreement on the supply of six Airbus A321 aircraft.

          Delivery dates are from July 2015 to March 2016. Aircraft are acquired under long-term operating leasing.

          Aircraft will arrive at the airline directly from the manufacturer. Their layout has already been determined. The total capacity will be 170 seats. There will be three cabins on planes. This is the Imperial first class lounge - 4 seats, the business class lounge - 8 seats and the economy class lounge - 158 seats. At the same time, all salons will have the highest level of comfort. So, the step of seats in the economy class cabin will be at least 33 inches.

          2.GTLK's subsidiary GTLK Europe has supplied Aeroflot with the third Airbus A321-200. Two more similar aircraft will be transferred to the lessee before the end of this year.

          The deal to lease five Airbus A321 aircraft from the State Transport Leasing Company was approved by the Aeroflot shareholders meeting in mid-October.
          1. VAF
            VAF April 4 2014 14: 07
            +4
            Quote: vaf
            To us ... is this to whom ???


            Extension hi

            3.UTair Aviation, one of the leading Russian air carriers, continues to receive Airbus A321 aircraft under a contract for 20 cars with delivery in 2013-2016 Vnesheconombank's subsidiary, VEB Leasing OJSC, arranges financing of the transaction.

            The aircraft was handed over to the airline during a ceremony at the Airbus factory in Hamburg (Germany). This is the first contract signed between UTair and Airbus, as well as the largest single order for A321 among Russian carriers.

            Under the terms of the contract, A321 aircraft are equipped with CFM56-5B engines and have a monoclassic cabin layout designed to accommodate 220 passengers. The airline plans to operate these aircraft on international and Russian routes with large passenger traffic.

            And generally speaking. so as not to "deliver" the list lol Airbus orders portfolio from Russian airlines is about $ 12 billion, excluding orders through leasing companies, reports Business-TASS wassat ... This was stated by a representative of a European aircraft building company at the ceremony of handing over the Airbus A321 aircraft to UTair.

            "At the moment, 77 aircraft have been ordered with a catalog value of about $ 12 billion," an Airbus spokesman said, adding that in general, taking into account orders through leasing companies, Russian air carriers will receive more than 5 Airbus aircraft in the next 6-100 years.

            Direct orders - 4 A380s and 8 A320s neo for Transaero, 23 A320s for the S7 group, an order for 22 A350s for Aeroflot.

            So, dear aksakal. it is necessary to be more careful with the "slogan" - "US either .....Russian" wassat

            1. FID
              FID April 4 2014 14: 15
              0
              Hello! Glad to see you!
              1. VAF
                VAF April 4 2014 14: 18
                0
                Quote: SSI
                Hello! Glad to see you!


                Hello Seryozha !!! drinks There you wrote a comment that Rostek wants 50? ... "rumors" is that .. more wassat
                1. FID
                  FID April 4 2014 14: 24
                  +2
                  Quote: vaf
                  There you wrote a comment that Rostek wants 50? ... "rumors" is that .. more

                  Rostec resold the contract for bobiks to VEB, and it still wants to buy it, but 50 is already an almost paid (or already paid) contract. Damn "care" about the aviation industry !!!
                  1. VAF
                    VAF April 4 2014 14: 40
                    +2
                    Quote: SSI
                    Rostec resold the contract on VEB's bobiks, and he still wants to buy


                    So I oh .. same bully Glory to our ... "Caring" wassat , although it will be more appropriate angry
            2. timer
              timer April 6 2014 21: 10
              0
              Fuck yourself! Our aviation industry is suffocating from a lack of orders, and these lousy sheep are buying equipment over the hill! I regard this as a betrayal! Where does our leadership look? Or did Airbus, along with the Boeing, buy everyone in the bud?! Meetings are gathering, discussing something. -fraud. And I also want to add, in the USSR there was a clear balance in the aviation industry. I want this same approach to prevail in the current situation when distributing orders for military and civilian vessels!
      3. The comment was deleted.
    5. inkass_98
      inkass_98 April 4 2014 11: 27
      +5
      Quote: Aeneas
      They have a woman in common

      I’ll tell you more - they even live in one country, can you imagine?
    6. svp67
      svp67 April 4 2014 11: 47
      +4
      Quote: Aeneas
      to the fullness of the picture, it should also be pointed out that Dmitry Rogozin, vice-premier for the military-industrial complex, and general director Ilyushin Viktor Livanov, turned out to be relatives by accident. They have a woman in common - in one person Rogozin’s sister and Livanov’s wife.

      What interesting details ... the main thing is to understand how this will affect the BAN of the Ukrainian authorities on cooperation with Russian and the supply of products ...
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. svp67
          svp67 April 4 2014 13: 35
          0
          Quote: aksakal
          - it will not affect in any way, but if a woman is sensible, then she can easily affect the acceleration of the aircraft industry by pushing either her brother or husband.

          So I think so ... flies - separately, cutlets - also on the side ...
          The main thing that...
        3. svp67
          svp67 April 4 2014 13: 38
          0
          I apologize to Aksakal, he became completely blind ...

          aksakal
          Quote: svp67
          PROHIBITION of the authorities of Ukraine


          - it will not affect in any way, but if a woman is sensible, then she can easily affect the acceleration of the aircraft industry by pushing either her brother or husband.
    7. andrey-tse
      andrey-tse April 4 2014 11: 55
      +1
      Guys are doing everything right, lobbying the interests of their structures.
    8. pvn53
      pvn53 April 4 2014 13: 35
      -1
      There should be more good people
    9. pvn53
      pvn53 April 4 2014 13: 35
      0
      There should be more good people
    10. StolzSS
      StolzSS April 4 2014 15: 57
      0
      Lavrenty Pavlovich Beria and comrade Grabin were also married to sisters and this helped a lot in the work, and the director of the 92nd plant could more freely take responsibility in risky decisions related to the production of guns in the war ... hi
    11. builder74
      builder74 April 4 2014 19: 39
      0
      "To complete the picture, it should also be pointed out that Dmitry Rogozin, deputy prime minister for the military-industrial complex, and Ilyushin's general director, Viktor Livanov, turned out to be relatives purely by chance. They have a common woman."

      This does not refute the arguments presented in the article.
    12. tupolev-95
      tupolev-95 April 4 2014 23: 36
      0
      And of course, that is why the An-70 hovered with a dead load, and not through the fault of the Ukrainian side))))
  2. Alez
    Alez April 4 2014 08: 07
    +8
    There should be a law on import substitution designed for 10 years, within 10 years, we ourselves must produce everything from bread to microcircuits. At least 90% of all consumed should be produced in the country.
    1. Alekseev
      Alekseev April 4 2014 10: 12
      +2
      Quote: Alez
      At least 90% of all consumed should be produced in the country.

      It is too complicated, costly and not necessary. But key components need to be produced, of course. And the law (and, mainly, real, practical actions) on import substitution is needed.
      But it is unlikely that Ukraine will cut the branch on which its high-tech industry sits, in the present, and not only in language.
      Are there really all such dense Russophobes and do..y, that is, to blame, "stupid people"?
      1. pv1005
        pv1005 April 4 2014 10: 31
        +6
        Ukraine might be reluctant to cut bitches, but those who manage it will saw off anything.
      2. FID
        FID April 4 2014 10: 54
        +6
        Quote: Alekseev
        It is too complicated, costly and not necessary.

        Let me give you just one example. USSR ... Then you can stop writing ... (I'm talking about complexity, etc.)
        1. Alekseev
          Alekseev April 4 2014 12: 18
          -5
          Quote: SSI
          Let me give you just one example. the USSR

          Quote: SSI
          (this is me about complexity, etc.)

          Yes, an example is right out of place.
          Exorbitant expenses (expensive) played a certain role in the collapse of the USSR. And they were not able to establish a number of industries in the USSR (complicated) - first of all, microelectronics, some materials, machines, etc.
          1. FID
            FID April 4 2014 12: 42
            +8
            IL-96-300 is a completely domestic aircraft, including microelectronics ... By the way, machines and aluminum at aircraft factories are also their own. And no dependence on the opinion of "foreign uncles". Maybe there are some other examples?
            1. aksakal
              aksakal April 4 2014 13: 38
              -1
              Quote: SSI
              IL-96-300 is a completely domestic aircraft, including microelectronics ... By the way, machines and aluminum at aircraft factories are also their own. And no dependence on the opinion of "foreign uncles". Maybe there are some other examples?

              - Alekseev is partly right, because it really was harder for the USSR - according to Khazin, the deepening specialization (the international division of labor) contributed to an increase in labor productivity (and hence a decrease in cost), and at that time the potential of this specialization was far from being exhausted. The USSR could not kunkur, working "traditionally".
              But now Khazin claims that the potential of deepening specialization has been completely exhausted due to the limited size of our planet, and therefore the crisis has struck ...
              And this means that some rollback to the old mode of production will already have ADVANTAGES.
              Here is your debate that for one, the taste is dry, the other praises, the only difference is that one is discussing fresh drying, and the other is a hundred years old lunch. It's about one product, the difference in eras.
              1. FID
                FID April 4 2014 13: 48
                +10
                Quote: aksakal
                It's about one product, the difference in eras.

                I’m not talking about eras, it’s just that in one country it is possible to produce everything, especially in a country like ours. Yes, that far to go, China. Yes, stolen technology, yes, stolen designs, but PRODUCES ALL BY YOURSELF! Including microelectronics of the space category. Chinese missiles, unlike ours, do not fall. And their minister, like our sweet-voiced Dmitry Olegovich, does not have to come up with stories about a picker who mixed up the contacts of the angular velocity sensor!
            2. The comment was deleted.
            3. VAF
              VAF April 4 2014 14: 49
              +1
              Quote: SSI
              IL-96-300 - completely domestic aircraft,


              Seryozha, is there a "final" solution for 300? well for those. that are on VASO.
              I already "heard" from Aeroflot 96 crying
              And now ... only those PMUs. What's in the SLO "Russia" and that's it? recourse

              1. FID
                FID April 4 2014 15: 02
                +6
                VASO does not disassemble the slipway. For SLO, 2 more sides will be built, but not PU. While the issue of 300-k production is hanging. 96104 is redone under Sechin, instead of the truck there will be a sooo long-haul with increased comfort. The ever-memorable Dmitry Olegovich wants to blind a passenger out of 400, but ... Would they really impose sanctions? You look, and it would turn out that ...
                1. VAF
                  VAF April 4 2014 15: 30
                  +1
                  Quote: SSI
                  Would they impose sanctions? You look, and it would turn out that ...


                  It is necessary to sanction and the elimination of "Lamburen type SP" bully ..then the managers will trample ..then it may be revived..aviaprom, our domestic. and while "power has all sorts of things like" Michal you understand Aslanovich ".. there will be no business crying one blah blah blah recourse
                  And what kind of car .. "ruined" am

                  1. FID
                    FID April 4 2014 15: 40
                    +1
                    Yes, the car shine. For the last year and a half, AFL pilots ONLY flew in the machine, every third landing was automatic, until the bow was pressed (there would have been more, but not all ports under the third category were made. It’s ridiculous, the SLR cars fly to St. Petersburg in order to work out going to the second circle in category 3 and Vnukino is the 2nd category). It is a pity, the fleet of domestic cars shrinks like shagreen leather ...
            4. Alekseev
              Alekseev April 4 2014 18: 01
              0
              Quote: SSI
              IL-96-300 is a fully domestic aircraft, including microelectronics ...

              Being quite closely associated with LIS VASO at one time, I agree with you that the IL-96-300 is a good aircraft, but, currently, unfortunately, not entirely competitive. request
              There are also problems with the intended use of the IL-96-400 in the "Flight".
              Why? Yes, roughly speaking, mainly because of the engines.
              Not touching the level of reliability (which was brought to the required level only a few years ago), service prices, etc., the following fact is noted: on similar Boeing and Airbuses only two motorson Ilefour.
              Why do not produce such engines, which can be put two?
              There are no technologies. About 15 key technologies that are present in the West are not in our factories.
              And one of the main tasks in preparing the production of the new PD-14 engine is to create these production technologies. We hope that the task will be successfully solved. To solve such problems - this is not a thoughtless set for you. laughing
              As for microelectronics, there is no need to disturb the IL-96-300 at all.
              Just look at your computer, TV and so on.
              There is a front for the development of scientific and technological progress in Russia. yes
              And you need to progress, as always did, taking your good and the best in the world (from competitors).
              And what do you think?
              1. FID
                FID April 4 2014 18: 15
                +3
                Quote: Alekseev
                If you are involved with aviation, you should know that the IL-96-300 is a good aircraft, but uncompetitive.
                Why? Yes, roughly speaking, mainly because of the engines.

                Are you sure about that? Something a lot of economists have recently become, we are talking about competitiveness, about oil prices, about this ... IL-96 from the beginning of operation I know ... Do you know why it has 4 engines? Do you know that there was an IL-96 variant with two engines? Do you know why twin-engine did not go? If you know, let's talk, then about competitiveness you can ...
  3. Duke
    Duke April 4 2014 08: 07
    +5
    Risks associated with Russian-Ukrainian cooperation can be mitigated through the development of their own projects in this area. In the case of transport aviation, the solution to the problem with a possible break in cooperation will be the design and construction of aircraft of our own design.

    Yours is better than someone else's.
  4. ken
    ken April 4 2014 08: 07
    +21
    Own industry and agriculture are a guarantee of the country's welfare. And no ...
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  5. johnsnz
    johnsnz April 4 2014 08: 10
    0
    I, when for the first time after the "carcasses" of the 144th, 145th boarded the 76th, I almost experienced an orgasm. King of the sky!
    1. creak
      creak April 4 2014 10: 10
      +8
      It happened with an orgasm because there was no serial TU-145, but there was and is a TU-154 .... Yes, and how can they be compared - a passenger and a heavy transporter (completely different purpose) ...
      1. johnsnz
        johnsnz April 4 2014 12: 17
        +1
        I compare transporters. The 144th is quite a serial competitor of the French Concorde, and 145 - aka Tu-22M - flew on an experimental one. Special cargo delivery (Baikonur, Semipalatinsk)
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. creak
          creak April 4 2014 13: 38
          +2
          Quote: johnsnz
          I compare transporters. The 144th is quite a serial competitor of the French Concorde, and 145 - aka Tu-22M - flew on an experimental one. Special cargo delivery (Baikonur, Semipalatinsk)


          And these vehicles according to your transporters (TU-144 and Concord) and you therefore you compare them? Well, well ... But the TU-22M (intermediate project code 145) was originally designed and went into production as a long-range strategic bombing raiser, and to carry special cargoes on this experimental missile carrier (no words) - you still decide which planes you flew in what quality? With materiel you like not so ....
        3. VAF
          VAF April 4 2014 15: 23
          +3
          Quote: johnsnz
          and 145 - aka Tu-22M - flew on an experimental one. Special cargo delivery (Baikonur, Semipalatinsk)


          May I ask ... what do you "smoke"? wink
          And at the expense of 145 ..? It can be "45" or "AM" (well, further "o2" and "03") wink , because. ed.145 .. this is a project of deep modernization of Tu-22k. + narobotki under the project "106B".
          Be careful with ... "slogans" wink

          Project "145" missile carrier (Tu-145)

        4. Des10
          Des10 April 4 2014 20: 32
          +1
          It was near the runway for 2 years and the Tu-22M (Tu-145) was not.
        5. The comment was deleted.
    2. inkass_98
      inkass_98 April 4 2014 11: 30
      +2
      Quote: johnsnz

      johnsnz Today, 08: 10 ↓ New
      I, when for the first time after the "carcasses" of the 144th, 145th boarded 76

      Wow! I, too, when I read science fiction, I am very happy. How many years he worked at the airport, but saw only the Tu-134 and Tu-154, and you also saw the Tu-145! belay
    3. Bayonet
      Bayonet April 4 2014 12: 08
      +2
      Which 144th flew, if not secret?
  6. pts-m
    pts-m April 4 2014 08: 38
    +2
    Was it really necessary to prove from 1992 to the present that your production is independent of the political views of your closest and closest neighbors! Well, everything that has passed and the present is on the conscience of the “patriots” sitting at the helm. That's right ... it’s easier to chop down kickbacks ...
  7. stas11830
    stas11830 April 4 2014 09: 09
    +5
    With Ukraine, anyway, you can't cook porridge. We need to create conditions and opportunities for our own producers.
  8. aeroliga-66
    aeroliga-66 April 4 2014 09: 13
    +1
    He flew 12 years as the navigator of the AN-26 in Barnaul, while in 1997 the entire squadron (6 aircraft, 10 crews) was reduced. And the resource of the AN-26 is still up to you, believe me ...
  9. FID
    FID April 4 2014 09: 17
    +11
    Error again. IL-112T is NOT a PASSENGER aircraft, but a civilian version of a TRANSPORT aircraft. From the easy language of Dmitry Olegovich, this mistake constantly walks. A passenger plane assumes the presence of portholes on the sides, and this recalculation of strength is practically a NEW building, respectively, a new plane.
    1. Sma11
      Sma11 April 4 2014 20: 35
      -1
      A passenger plane assumes the presence of portholes on the sides, and this recalculation of strength is practically a NEW building, respectively, a new plane.

      Oh, what are you talking about? what ? And I thought that the passenger is different from the transport by the presence of a ramp. In addition, he saw the transport An - 72 in the passenger version.
      IL-112T (transport) is a civil cargo-passenger version of the IL-112V aircraft. The aircraft is designed to carry up to 44 passengers and mail; passengers, mail and cargo (on pallets and in containers); cargo and equipment. Salon convertible.
      1. FID
        FID April 5 2014 08: 55
        0
        Quote: Sma11
        Oh, what are you talking about? And I thought that the passenger is different from the transport by the presence of a ramp. In addition, he saw the transport An - 72 in the passenger version.

        When installing benches along the sides, any transport turns into a passenger one. No need to build yourself ... A passenger plane is an aircraft for transportation in the passenger compartment. Transport An-72 turned into An-148 - do you catch the difference or not?
        1. Sma11
          Sma11 April 5 2014 12: 22
          +1
          When installing benches along the sides, any transport turns into a passenger one. No need to build yourself ...

          For your information. Not setting up shops. And the installation of chairs and the installation of partitions.
          Passenger aircraft assumes the presence of portholes on the sides, and this recalculation of strength - almost a new building

          But in this you really are wrong. Unless of course you imagine a fuselage device. In the transport version along the fuselage is the equipment of electrical, pneumatic, hydraulic and other aircraft systems. In the passenger, all this is located under the floor and under the ceiling. And the case design does not depend on the presence of portholes.
          Aircraft Power Pack - a system of rod and beam elements installed in accordance with the structural power scheme of the aircraft; perceives loads and provides rigidity of a contour of a design. Distinguish between longitudinal and transverse sets. The longitudinal S. n. Located along the axis of the aircraft or its elements include spars, stringers, beams, power panels and other structural elements that perceive longitudinal loads. The transverse S. n., Located perpendicular to the axis of the aircraft or to the axis of the longitudinal elements, include ribs, frames and other structural elementsserving to transmit lateral loads and preserve the external and internal shape of the unit. To further increase the local and general rigidity of the aircraft frame, the elements of S. n. at intersections, they are fastened together by bolts, rivets, welding, etc. In heavily loaded structures, rigid sheathing (sheath) associated with longitudinal and transverse sets of bolts, rivets, etc., ensures efficient load transfer and at the same time increases the overall rigidity of the frame aircraft. The presence of three separately working structural elements - a longitudinal set, a transverse set and sheathing - allows the designer to flexibly, depending on the prevailing loads, choose different ratios of stiffness and area of ​​the aircraft elements, while ensuring the minimum weight of the structure.
          1. FID
            FID April 5 2014 14: 32
            +1
            That is why the transport Il-96-400 is undergoing a lengthy revision for the passenger version. Talk better about politics ... I've met computer experts a lot ..
            1. Sma11
              Sma11 April 6 2014 09: 31
              +1
              That is why the transport Il-96-400 is undergoing a lengthy revision for the passenger version. Talk better about politics ... I've met computer experts a lot ..

              A passenger plane assumes the presence of portholes on the sides, and this recalculation of strength is practically a NEW building, respectively, a new plane.

              So tell me about the differences in the fuselage between the Il-96-400 and the Il-96-400T. I would be very grateful. Since it is difficult for a person who has worked in aircraft repair for about 20 years to understand the "fantasies of design" ideas from an opponent from the forum.
              1. FID
                FID April 7 2014 09: 07
                0
                The Il-96-400 (no Il-96-400T, well, they do not produce such a modification) does not have a RAMP (see your statement above), but is a CARGO (transport) modification of the Il-96, cargo hatches are in its sides, Boeing- 747 "Freiter" from the same opera. I am not an "aircraft repairer", but I have been in aviation for more than 30 years, so I say that getting a passenger modification from a transport company is to create a NEW aircraft. Therefore, let's not measure up ... but exist normally on the site.
                1. Sma11
                  Sma11 April 7 2014 09: 31
                  0
                  IL-96-400 (no IL-96-400T, well, do not release such a modification)

                  Long-range super-heavy transport aircraft Il-96-400T
                  Development: Aviation Complex named after S.V. Ilyushin
                  Project Stage: Series Production
                  (http://www.uacrussia.ru/ru/models/transport/il_96_400t/)

                  GOOGLE HELP! good
                  1. FID
                    FID April 7 2014 09: 53
                    0
                    Il-96-400T, let it be your way, but look at the register of manufactured aircraft, you will find only Il-96-400, and please don’t need about the network, I often visit Voronezh, and I can also without Google. I do not draw knowledge from the computer!
                    1. Sma11
                      Sma11 April 7 2014 11: 27
                      0
                      (http://russianplanes.net/registr)* Russianplanes.net registers are compiled on the basis of media reports, analysis of photographs and schedules allowed to publish data from operators, aircraft factories, design bureaus, from the Economy Archive, as well as on the basis of additions sent site visitors.
                      The project administration is not responsible for any inaccuracies or irrelevance of the information provided.

                      serial IL-96-400 manufactured by VASO
                      IL-96-400T 97693201001 1997 RA-96101 in storage
                      IL-96-400T 97693201002 2007 RA-96102 in storage
                      IL-96-400T 97693201003 2009 RA-96103 in storage
                      IL-96-400T 97693201004 2011 RA-96104 in storage
                      IL-96-400T 97693201005 RA-96105 under construction / order.
                      IL-96-400T 97693201006 RA-96106 under construction / order.
                      IL-96-400T 97693201007 RA-96107 under construction / order.

                      Are you talking about this? How to say request . But GOOGLE still steers good !
                      A passenger plane assumes the presence of portholes on the sides, and this is a recalculation of strength - almost NEW housing, respectively - a new plane.

                      There is no great desire to argue with you either, but this is your statement, well, let's say, not entirely correct. Even in terms of aerodynamics. After all, there is nothing newer than the well-forgotten old.
                      Not a single design bureau will begin to re-create a new fuselage when there is a time-tested one, run in a wind tunnel and having not exhausted its capabilities, the old one. About lengthening, installation of additional stiffeners, power plant, etc., etc., etc. I do not say. Therefore, aircraft of any design bureau are recognizable in appearance, like twins.
                      1. FID
                        FID April 7 2014 11: 53
                        0
                        Yes, God bless you! I never argue, if you want "T" - let it be, the fuselages are similar - similar, the planes - different, even the control laws are changing, are Tu-214 and Tu-204 the same or not? And what about the Tu-204SM and Tu-204-300?
                      2. Sma11
                        Sma11 April 7 2014 13: 08
                        0
                        airplanes are different, even control laws are changing,

                        Pa-aprashu more in detail from this place request .
                        Tu-214 and Tu-204 are the same or not? And Tu-204СМ and Tu-204-300?

                        What is the significant difference?
                        "Interchangeability, standardization and technical measurements", as well as "Unification in the design process", well, very interesting subjects for future designers.
                      3. FID
                        FID April 7 2014 13: 35
                        0
                        The gear ratios in the control paths of balancing and flow of rudders in both automatic and manual control are changing. Tu-204 and Tu-214 are assembled in different stocks. The feeders of both aircraft are completely different. Defects in control systems are completely different (which fails at 214, then does not fail at 204 ....). But, in principle, you are right that all planes are similar. There is a fuselage (everyone), there is a wing, there is a keel, there are motors. Even the laws of control are the same to the extent that aerodynamics allow, even deflected surfaces are present on every aircraft ... And these - interchangeability, unification ... is this all very useful, but where are they? Piece production of airplanes ... By the way, where are you from the Volga region? Kazan, Ulyanovsk, Samara? Maybe they met somewhere, or maybe we'll meet again?
                      4. Sma11
                        Sma11 April 7 2014 16: 11
                        0
                        Well, finally everything cleared up. Judging by your last post, I dare to assume that you are a specialist in AO. I look from the side of the SD. This is where our views differ.
                        By the way, where are you from the Volga region? Kazan, Ulyanovsk, Samara? Maybe they met somewhere, or maybe we'll meet again?

                        Hardly. I'm already retired. And so, military transport aircraft.
                        Even the laws of control are the same to the extent that aerodynamics allows, even deflected surfaces are present on every aircraft ...

                        That's why pilots are trained for each modification separately.
                        And these here - interchangeability, unification ... is it all very useful, but where are they? Unit production of airplanes ...

                        You shouldn’t be so. Any line of aircraft, that An, that Tu, that Il have, for the most part, interchangeable parts and assemblies. The same applies to helicopters.
                      5. FID
                        FID April 8 2014 07: 45
                        0
                        Yes, I'm an autopilot (control systems, indicators, missile control systems, etc.). I’m retired myself, but I work, you won’t live in retirement in Moscow, I train my son, I brought him to my work 10 years ago, sometimes I regret, except for specials. detachment and Red Wing in the domestic no one flies, well, except for the single An-148. Tu-22M and Tu-160 can be counted on the fingers, I don’t know, I don’t know ... How will it live?
  • konvalval
    konvalval April 4 2014 09: 24
    +3
    We must move away from imports and develop our own production, and in the transition period pay with Ukraine not with currency but with gas.
  • gogen3
    gogen3 April 4 2014 09: 27
    +4
    Ukraine is sorry, of course ... and their design bureau, but the author of the article is right: regardless of the foreign policy situation, it is necessary to establish a full production cycle in his own country. Rostec and Rosaviatsia to help
    1. FID
      FID April 4 2014 09: 54
      +6
      Quote: gogen3
      Rostec and Rosaviatsia to help

      Are you aware that Rostec purchased 50 (fifty) Boeings? How does this relate to the restoration of the domestic aviation industry?
      1. creak
        creak April 4 2014 10: 45
        +3
        Aeroflot decommissioning the last remaining IL-96 ...
        1. FID
          FID April 4 2014 10: 52
          +2
          Quote: ranger
          Aeroflot decommissioning the last remaining IL-96 ...

          All six are for sale. They still have a landing resource ... One takes Cuba ...
      2. Dromac
        Dromac April 4 2014 11: 02
        0
        And everything is simple - Amers put on the needle - the purchase of foreign aircraft. Try to include sanctions ... And even if they turn it on, it’s not bad either, we will refuse to purchase and we will promote our own, only more actively ....
  • Chicot 1
    Chicot 1 April 4 2014 10: 11
    +1
    Only "An" (by the way, how long is he left?) And "Il" ... And where is "Yak"? .. Where is "Tu"? .. Or "Tupole" was buried completely and irrevocably? ..
    And write about the aviation industry, dear Author, so write about everything, and not only victorious reports on achievements (which in essence are developments of the Soviet era!), But also problems ... Minus ...
    1. Genry
      Genry April 4 2014 15: 00
      +1
      1. Do not require the author to write from what he does not know.
      2.There is a question about the pitfalls of cooperation with neighbors.
      1. Chicot 1
        Chicot 1 April 4 2014 16: 33
        +1
        Quote: Genry
        1. Do not require the author to write from what he does not know

        Once it takes upon itself the work to cover a particular area, it should know. And not just a must, but a must ...
        Quote: Genry
        2.There is a question about the pitfalls of cooperation with neighbors

        Or maybe in this case, own "pitfalls" and different "counter currents" play a much greater role? ..
  • Dwarfik
    Dwarfik April 4 2014 10: 16
    +1
    But in order not to depend on cooperation in the aircraft industry, it is necessary to have fully domestic capacity and scientific development, and there are analogues of Anam, and they lobbied for a kind of support for Ukrainian industry, but now the wind does not favor it! So, quite possibly, a breakdown in relations between the new aircraft will occur, only the services of those currently in service will remain!
  • Sergiys_Praim
    Sergiys_Praim April 4 2014 10: 24
    +1
    Quote: Aeneas
    They have a woman in common


    One seemed to me a very strange comment:
    "They have a woman in common"
    A Russian, as well as a Ukrainian, would never have written so about his sister and wife ...
    Given that the comment with a sub-emphasis ...

    It will not be a big problem for Russia to get rid of the dependence of foreign enterprises with the most disastrous prospects ... Russia will certainly have difficulties in this regard, but they are not critical. But this needs to be done for anyone, enterprises will not be able to work normally with the impending economic collapse. But what will happen to Ukrainian enterprises is that they will finish them, of course, there is no money to re-profile production to the West, and they will not be allowed to enter their market there ... But a little later, a little earlier.
  • svoi
    svoi April 4 2014 10: 25
    +9
    Ukrov, in the near future, is planning "Mary Poppins" in these conditions, it is necessary to drag out the people from "Antonov" to their design bureau already unnecessarily, planes made of fat, black soil, and anti-Russian slogans cannot be built. You can drive to the Maidan and on foot.
    1. Val_y
      Val_y April 4 2014 14: 29
      +4
      Yes, not only from Antonov, but also from Motor Sich and Turboatom yes
  • ddd1975
    ddd1975 April 4 2014 11: 18
    +1
    We are able to build airplanes. I don’t think that it will be a big problem to launch a full cycle in our country. Here is the generation of designers you need to grow, but this is a matter of education in general.
    1. FID
      FID April 4 2014 11: 43
      +3
      Quote: ddd1975
      We are able to build airplanes. I don’t think that it will be a big problem to launch a full cycle in our country. Here is the generation of designers you need to grow, but this is a matter of education in general.

      "At the end of April last year, President of the United Aircraft Building Corporation (UAC) Mikhail Pogosyan announced that 2013 aircraft will be produced at the aircraft factories of the UAC in 147."


      These are ALL types: Yak-130, Su of various modifications, including citizens ...
      So much for you and "I don't think it will be a big problem ..." Airbus produces about one and a half aircraft a day ....
      1. Val_y
        Val_y April 4 2014 14: 41
        +3
        The problem is not only in the designers, but also in the engineers and technicians, and most importantly in the mechanics of the 6th category. Those who embody ideas in iron. (you cannot buy the ability to cook and grind in high quality), you can only learn this and then no less than 10 years. And now everyone wants to be white-collar workers. That's why it turns out that our all aircraft plants produce less than one airbase what
        1. FID
          FID April 4 2014 14: 50
          +2
          Quote: Val_Y
          That's why it turns out that our all aircraft plants produce less than one airbase

          It remains to add - at times less!
  • xsapranx
    xsapranx April 4 2014 11: 28
    0
    If people want, then they will come to you here everything is simple and transparent. But who knows how to work is still working at home or at the same Boeing, and in China. I honestly wonder how practical this aircraft will be and the issue with engines (is there really no alternative)?
  • inkass_98
    inkass_98 April 4 2014 11: 37
    +4
    Developing and building your own is an axiom. The main thing here is not to overdo it and not fall into the idea of ​​"juche" (self-reliance), the consequences of which are visible to the naked eye. But knowledge-intensive industries, incl. aviation, heavy engineering, etc. should be based on its own production and its own scientific base. It is impossible to make the country's defense and its aviation dependent on the momentary sentiments of our foreign colleagues.
  • sv68
    sv68 April 4 2014 12: 13
    0
    one should not expect that the Ukrainian elite will also lobby joint projects with Russia. it is necessary to build airplanes themselves if someone does not want to cooperate with Russia not in words but in practice
  • Spasatel
    Spasatel April 4 2014 12: 25
    +3
    The topic of aircraft construction in Russia is one of the most problematic, and not only aircraft construction. All technically sophisticated and precise production ran into the already global problem of the country: the lack of qualified workers. If in the USSR a worker, especially skilled, was a privileged class with an adequate salary, now in Russia there is a catastrophic shortage of simple hard workers. Young people have been eager for 20 years to become lawyers, managers, merchandisers and other, other ... just not a fitter at the factory. And there, people who have been brought up by the Union, who have been educated, educated and mastery there, are finalizing it. And who is behind them?
    No one ...
    And yesterday it was necessary to think about how to interest boys in schools as a worker, to launch a company to attract young people to factories, and to make sure that the masters of work had their wages corresponding to their qualifications.
    Otherwise, we will not see good luck ...
    1. aviamed90
      aviamed90 April 4 2014 14: 18
      +2
      Spasatel RU

      "... how to interest the boys in schools in the profession of a worker, to launch a campaign to attract young people to factories, and to make sure that the foremen of the worker have a salary corresponding to their qualifications."

      Write everything correctly.
      But in practice - this is what:

      As an example:

      "Training in Saratov Aviation College goes on 11 specialties:

      151001 "Engineering Technology"

      220301 "Automation of technological processes and production"

      200104 "Aviation devices and systems"

      230105 "Computer Software and Automated Systems"

      090108 "Information Security"

      140613 "Technical operation and maintenance of electrical and electromechanical equipment (by industry)

      080110 "Economics and Accounting"

      080501 Management

      070802 "Decorative and Applied Arts and Crafts"

      100201 "Tourism" ".

      Are there many aviation professions?
      1. Sma11
        Sma11 April 5 2014 12: 44
        0
        Well, 6 from 10 except 4 last at the aircraft plant come in handy.
  • xomaNN
    xomaNN April 4 2014 13: 37
    0
    Regrettably for the Academy of Sciences, it is unlikely that it will have the prospect of production in the Russian Federation. Even the realization that some "widespread nationalist Ukrainian. Bottling" will try to put some dirty trick into the documentation in advance, and this will not only threaten with losses, but also with plane crashes (this is of course an extreme)
  • sazhka4
    sazhka4 April 4 2014 14: 40
    +2
    Twenty years of silly chatter and nothing to do. "Tandem" rules .. I wonder how and where? One to the right, the other to the left, or one forward the other back? The result is always the same. He also warmed Yanyka, and let him "squeal" on TV. I don't understand anything .. Dol_bo_e_bizm in its purest form ..
  • yigres
    yigres April 4 2014 15: 41
    0
    Friends, how would the AN-70 look good in the Russian sky? Why is no one talking about this plane?
    1. VAF
      VAF April 4 2014 15: 59
      +2
      Quote: yigres
      but as if


      Therefore, we do not speak, because. in fact .. "if only, if only". Plus "masaletik" count .. "enemy" (in terms of TD and CD) request
  • sergkob2
    sergkob2 April 4 2014 16: 50
    0
    In short, give her a stick in her hand so that both men are driven !!!! lol
  • alex86
    alex86 April 4 2014 18: 25
    +3
    But what do we need to do with Ukraine so that Boeing and Airbus, within the framework of sanctions, stop selling planes to us? ...
  • Glagol
    Glagol April 4 2014 20: 27
    +2
    It’s necessary to speed up;
    Shot, no sane there, Motor Sich and Antonova sorry, but that we
    We can do it. Moreover, the West is vitally interested in the collapse
    Ukrainian aviation space industry and will murder the necessary bribes
    frostbitten.
  • Governor
    Governor April 4 2014 20: 48
    +1
    Only the most independent economy and only the maximum demand for domestic goods! There are no other ways in this insidious world, just not!
  • 16112014nk
    16112014nk April 4 2014 21: 27
    +1
    While they rule Medvedev, Manturov, Pogosyan, Dvorkovich, Shuvalov - nothing will be better.
  • dmitrij.blyuz
    dmitrij.blyuz April 4 2014 21: 33
    +3
    It is not bad to provide for customers with the possibility of installing Western-made components. But in the first place should be complete independence from external factors. Plans for the construction of 150 An-148T aircraft in Voronezh have been announced. The Russian Federation has received full documentation. Nobody offers to install SaM engines on it. -146 Rybinsk assembly. (Superjet). Instead of Zaporozhye D-436-148. I don’t think that any "sectors" will risk breaking cooperation and arrange an anti-Maidan in eastern Ukraine. In 2014, only 6 machines will be produced. Mockery. An-148 and Tu-334s are able to easily surpass the Jet. Therefore, Poghosyan does everything to keep An out of commercial operation. Like, let him fly better in MO. He protected his Jet from An by closing the passenger niche for this aircraft. Tu-334- He holds his power at the aircraft plant in Kazan, not allowing to re-equip and sell two almost finished aircraft - the best sign that the Tupolev car is able to press the Super on the market.
  • dmitrij.blyuz
    dmitrij.blyuz April 5 2014 00: 23
    +1
    On April 8, a State Duma meeting will be held to which Poghosyan is invited. The Dumovtsev has many questions for him, including the Prosecutor’s Office. Let's see what happens.
  • AlNick
    AlNick April 5 2014 10: 43
    0
    An interesting article caught my eye "Why are domestic" Tu "and" Ily "disappearing
    http://argumenti.ru/society/n432/329518
    Recommended

    On April 8, at the initiative of the State Duma Defense Committee, closed hearings should be held - they are waiting for the president of the United Aircraft Corporation (UAC), Mikhail Pogosyan. There are a lot of questions to him.
  • xsapranx
    xsapranx April 5 2014 10: 47
    0
    To replace the An-26, we decided to make the An-178. If it were more relaxed, then the first flights were expected this fall, but given both the state of the country and the leadership of Kiva, this was not destined to come true. In addition, I was somewhat puzzled by the question of the long-suffering An-70, Like Avionics, fans and much more are originally yours. Are you in a position to master the glider (do you own a controlling stake in Antei) or is it very outdated?
    1. wizarden
      wizarden April 6 2014 19: 14
      0
      They couldn’t agree on An-70 even in normal times, but now it’s already possible to say with 100% probability that it will not be in the Russian Air Force. They will mass build IL-476.
  • Cristall
    Cristall April 5 2014 17: 46
    0
    Quote: xsapranx
    To replace the An-26, we decided to make the An-178.

    judging by the characteristics of the Antonovtsy decided to occupy a niche that is not clogged. However, this is real.
    But then again, we don’t pull on our own.
    Maybe there is a plan to buy AN 70 through 3 persons?
    1. Sma11
      Sma11 April 6 2014 10: 22
      0
      An-70 is more likely to replace An-12.
  • jekasimf
    jekasimf April 6 2014 11: 13
    -1
    I really hope that the Antonov Design Bureau, by the fall, will become Russian .... together with Donetsk, Dnepropetrovsk and Kharkov.
  • Ev58
    Ev58 April 11 2014 11: 41
    0
    A country that wants to have a reliable military-industrial complex that allows the development and production of samples of В and ВТ should exclude any dependence on the supply of foreign units, components, materials and technologies, which in their parameters should not be inferior to the best modern achievements of science, technology, production capabilities. This is not the first time the ND issue has been raised. Many of the standards of the former USSR lost their validity, but nothing was created to replace it. Many modern standards of the Russian Federation represent copies of foreign regulatory documents, moreover, "revised" not in the best way. At the same time, the possibilities and feasibility of applying certain requirements are not taken into account, but a process called "harmonization" with foreign standards of the same name is just going on. It is necessary to restore and replenish the base of the ND RF. The same Americans, for example, have such an abundance of NDs on any issues addressed to all levels of the production, technological and testing base, which allows any enterprise to achieve the same goals using uniform methods. With us, every company tries to solve the problem to the best of its knowledge and capabilities. Take EMC, for example. Are there regulatory documents that allow circuit engineers, designers, and production workers to provide uniform methods for achieving the required performance? And so in any industry: from nuclear energy to toy manufacturing.