Military Review

Education Orenburg Cossack troops

74
In the 18th century 20-40, the Russian government carried out a number of major measures to strengthen the southeastern border of the empire and increase the role of the Cossacks in its defense. Two circumstances made these measures vital.


First, significant success was achieved in the development of the Volga region and the Urals by Russia. In the Urals at the beginning of the 18th century, the largest metallurgical base of that time was created. The Volga region by this time becomes the breadbasket of the country. But it was the Urals and the Volga region that were areas of the empire, the most vulnerable to the attacks of nomads.

Secondly, as a result of the Northern War, Russia solved the most pressing foreign policy tasks on its western borders and therefore was able to concentrate its main efforts in the east. And here immediately revealed the weakness of the military-political positions of the empire. So, in the west by the time the Russians conquered the shores of the Baltic Sea, and this opened up trade opportunities with Europe. Strongly weakened Sweden and Poland could no longer threaten the Russian state. In the east, a completely different situation took shape. After the unsuccessful Prut campaign of Peter I, the access to the Sea of ​​Azov was again lost, and the strong Ottoman Empire, in alliance with a large number of semi-mass and vassal states, not only closed the way to warm seas for Russia, but also posed a serious threat militarily. The Central Asian caravan trade routes controlled the Khanates and the Emirates hostile to Russia. The unsuccessful campaign in Khiva of the Bekovich-Cherkassky detachment, and then the large defeats of the Cossacks in repelling nomad attacks on Russian territories in 1723 and 1724, showed that in a purely military sense, Russia's capabilities are limited. Moreover, they were so limited that it was not only difficult to conduct an active offensive policy, but even for the safety of the actual Russian settlements it was impossible to be completely sure.


Fig. 1. East is a delicate matter


First of all, it was necessary to take care of the fortification of fortifications in Bashkiria, directly adjacent to the South Ural factories. It was the central sector of the defense of the south-eastern border of the Russian state, where mainly Samara and Ufa Cossacks of the Zakamsk defensive line served. Here, in accordance with the Senate Decree of 15 in March 1728, a system of signal beacons is introduced everywhere. All of Bashkiria from the city to the city, from the fortress to the fortress, in 20-30 years was covered with guard towers (lighthouses) with visible distance from one another. Lighthouses were located on the tops of mountains or hills. At the lighthouses guard Cossacks were constantly on duty. When danger approached with the help of light and smoke signals, they let know from the lighthouse to the lighthouse that the enemy was approaching and what its numbers were. If necessary, the outfit called for reinforcements or attacked the enemy himself.


Fig. 2. Alarms


In addition to lighthouses, patrols, posts, and "secrets" were organized in remote places for observation. And so on for hundreds of miles from Bashkiria to the Volga region. But the weak point of the Zakamsk line was its disconnection with the territory of the Yaik Cossacks. The most dangerous was the section of the border between Bashkiria and the Middle Current of Yaik, where the territories inhabited by Yaik Cossacks began. This practically unprotected area attracted the attention of Asian predators, precisely here they penetrated Russian territory and moved freely to the Volga region. To cover this gap on the orders of Empress Catherine I, by the decree of the Military Collegium in 1725, a town was founded at the confluence of the Sakmara River into Yaik. Yaitsky Ataman Merkuryev was instructed to provide the Cossacks who wished to settle in a new place with all the necessary assistance. At the same time, the Collegium clearly stipulated to inhabit the town exclusively with free Cossacks, and by no means fugitive from Russia by peasants. However, in this part of the decree was unfulfilled. Some of the peasants had a desire to flee from the landlords to the Cossacks, where, although it was difficult and dangerous life on the border, but the life of free people. And the Cossacks had the desire and material interest to accept, and sometimes lure, these fugitive people. The fugitives were hired as workers to the well-to-do Cossacks, and from them the bold men were hired to organize various kinds of military events. And the Cossacks, as far as possible, tried to hide the runaway. It is no coincidence that two years later, by decree of the Supreme Privy Council, the Senate was ordered to send fugitives and peasants to the former place of residence from the town of Sakmara. True, this decree was unfulfilled. However, this town was inadequate cover from the raids of nomads. It is characteristic that the Bashkirs who lived in this area, themselves not at that time reliable citizens of the Russian crown and often themselves attacking Russian villages, were forced to ask to build here several fortresses in order to block the road to the nomads. This was due to the fact that their attacks were systematic and the Kirghiz-Kaysak nomads tended to disassemble little who should be robbed, Russians or Bashkirs. By the middle of the 30 of the 18th century, the question of creating a fortification system in this region was acutely included in the agenda. Two events served as a direct reason for this: the formal entry into Russian citizenship in December 1731 of the Kazakhs (then they were called Kirghiz-Kaysaks) of the younger and middle zhuzes; Bashkir uprising 1735 — 1741's.

Accepting Russian citizenship, the Kazakhs hoped first of all that the Russian Empire would help them in the fight against the Dzungars attacking them. Russian military presence in the steppe seemed to them necessary. They themselves asked Empress Anna Ivanovna to build a fortress in the foothills of the Southern Urals. 7 June 1734 of the year, by order of the Empress, the city was founded and commanded "to call this city Orenburg and in any case call and write with this name." The city was originally founded at the mouth of the Ori River. Later, in 1740, Orenburg was moved to Krasnaya Gora tract, the old fortress became known as Orsk. By decree of 18 in October 1742, the city was moved to third place at the mouth of the river Sakmara, where it is now, and the former fortress became known as Krasnogorsk. Construction of Orenburg was begun, it seemed, under the most favorable circumstances. Everyone wanted its construction: Russians, Kazakhs, Bashkirs. But they wanted to achieve different, in essence, even opposing goals. The city under construction could be fully used not only to protect the Kazakhs from the Dzungars, the Bashkirs from the Kazakhs, but also against those and others. They figured it out pretty quickly. In the summer of 1735, an attack on Russian troops led by the State Secretary of the Senate and the founder of Orenburg, IK. Kirillov began Bashkir uprising. Through 2-3, a rebellion swept the whole of Bashkiria. It was a partisan war, unprecedented in the southeastern Russian Empire, in which both warring parties did not hesitate to choose the means. Particularly frequent and cruel attacks by the rebels, along with Russian villages, were villages of Meshcheryaks, Teptyars, Mishars, and Nagaybaks. The rebels had a very difficult relationship with the local Tatars. It was not by chance that during the uprising most of these nations were supported by government forces without hesitation. To suppress the uprising, significant military forces were sent to BNK in 1736, including, in addition to regular troops, up to three thousand Volga Kalmyks, three thousand Ufa bersheriks, about a thousand Don, two thousand Yaik Cossacks. Lieutenant-General A.I. was appointed the chief commander of the region. Rumyantsev. He won two major victories over the rebels on the river Duma and in the mountains between Yaik and Sakmara. But the rebellion did not subside. The final reconciliation of the region was associated with the activities of Prince V.A. Urusov, whom the government handed over command of the troops. In an Asian way he brutally cracked down on the rebels, while the Bashkir elders who did not support the rebels presented on behalf of the empress weapons, cloth, money, grades. Peace in Bashkiria was established. But the government and local administration understood that peace here cannot be strong and durable without creating a reliable defense system. Already during the Bashkir uprising 1735-1741, the leaders of the Russian administration IK. Kirillov, A.I. Rumyantsev, V.A. Urusov, V.N. Tatishchev take emergency measures to complete the construction of the Orenburg defensive line. Outposts, redoubts, fortresses in which Samara, Alekseev, Don, Little Russian, Yaik and Ufa Cossacks are settled for residence are being created. The government pays special attention to strengthening defense on Iset and in the adjacent areas. Chelyabinsk, Chebarkul, Miass, Etkul fortresses are built here in the 30-s of the XVIII century, which, on the one hand, protect the plants of the Southern Urals from nomads, and on the other, they separate Bashkir and Kirghiz-Kaysak (Kazakh) tribes.

Education Orenburg Cossack troops
Fig. 3. Monument to the first builders of the Chelyabinsk fortress


As a result, in the 30-40 of the 18th century, a system of border fortifications, enormous in scale and length, was created in the Urals and in the Ural region. It includes six defensive lines:
- Samara - from Samara to Orenburg (fortresses Krasnosmarskaya, Bordskaya, Buzulukskaya, Totskaya, Sorochinskaya, Novosergeevskaya, Elshanskaya)
- Sakmarskaya from Orenburg up the river Sakmara on the 136 versst (Prechistinskaya and Vozdvizhenskaya fortresses, the Nikitsky and Yellow redoubts);
- Nizhneyaitskaya - from Orenburg down the Yak on 125 versts to Iletsk town (fortresses Chernorechinskaya, Berdskaya, Tatishchevskaya, Rassypnaya, Nizhneozernaya and 19 Cossack outposts);
- Verkhnejaitskaya - from Orenburg Yaik up to 560 vents to Verkhnejaitskaya fortress (fortress Orskaya, Karagaysky, Guberlinskoy, Elias, lakeside, Kamennoozornaya, Krasnogorskaja, Tanalykskaya, Urtazymskaya, magnetic, Kizilskaya, Verkhnejaitskaya three and thirteen advanced post redoubts);
- Isetskaya - along the Miass river to its confluence with Iset (Miass, Chelyabinsk, Etkkul and Chebarkul fortresses, Ust-Miass and Isetsky fortresses);
- Uysko-Tobolsk - from Verkhneyaitskaya to Zverinogolovskoy fortress, including the Karagai, Uisk, Petropavlovsk, Steppe, Koelsk, Sanary, Kichiginsk, Troitsk, Ust-Uysk fortresses besides her.

This entire system, the 1780 version, was named the Orenburg defensive line. It began from Guriev town on the shores of the Caspian Sea and ended at the Alabuga detachment, located on the border of the Tobolsk province. For her defense, along with the Yaik army, a whole series of government decrees created the Orenburg Cossack army on the basis of a merger of free Cossacks and people who were included in the Cossack class by government decrees. The core of the troops was the communities of Ufa, Alekseev, Samara and Yaik Cossacks resettled to the Orenburg line. The Cossacks (descendants of the Yermakivtsi) were included in the composition of the troops with broad autonomy. In 1741, the first group of Ukrainian Cossacks from 209 families (a total of 849 serving Cossacks) arrived on the line from the Ukraine. To the Cossack class attributed to the relocated during the reign of Peter I archers, not implicated in the rifle rifle. But all this was missing. With all the dislike for runaway peasants, the government was forced to look through the fact that they, with the connivance of the local authorities in the Urals and in Siberia, are being registered as Cossacks. Moreover, with the beginning of the Bashkir uprising, the nominal decree of Empress Anna Ioannovna to all fugitives in the Urals was forgiven their guilt in exchange for agreeing to enroll in the Cossacks in the newly built towns. In the same period, for the defense of the frontier line, all the exiles and even some convicts were recorded as Cossacks. Be that as it may, the number of Cossacks on the Orenburg defensive line grew rapidly. In 1748, the Senate Military Collegium issued a decree on the organization of the Orenburg Irregular Army and on the introduction of the institution of a military ataman. The first chieftain appointed Samara Cossack Mogutov Vasily Ivanovich. The composition of the troops included: Samara, Ufa, Alekseev, Isatian Cossacks, Stavropol baptized Kalmyks, separate teams of resettled Yaik, Don and Little Russian Cossacks and all serving noblemen, boyars and former prisoners (foreigners), retired soldiers and officers enrolled in Cossacks, noblemen, noblemen and former prisoners (foreigners), retired soldiers and officers. , alien people (descendants), settled in the fortresses of the Orenburg line. This decree actually completed a series of government decrees related to the creation of the Orenburg Cossack army, which soon became the third largest among the Cossack troops in Russia. The seniority of the army was borrowed from the oldest Ufa Cossacks. After the conquest of Kazan in 1574, the voivod of Nagim arranged the Ufa fortification, inhabited by city service Cossacks. This date was the year of seniority of the Orenburg army. Consequently, it can be concluded that the Orenburg Cossack army, unlike the Don, Volga and Yaitsky, was formed and strengthened not spontaneously, but was created by decrees from above, organized and combined into a single whole by the administrative-command way. From the very beginning it did not know the veche freemen and the Cossack self-government (except for the Isatian Cossacks), and staff and army officers and officials fueled the army. And yet, in the southeast of the great empire, the Orenburg Cossack army was born, strengthened and honestly serving the Fatherland, powerful, well-organized and disciplined. From the very beginning, it did not know the peace and temporary respite from the very active actions of the aggressively brutal attacks of the neighboring Kirghiz-Kaysak, Bashkir, Kalmyk or Karakalpak militant tribes, who, despite their oath promises to serve Russia faithfully and keep the peace on the border, continued to engage in robbery - thief fishing.


Fig. 4. Orenburg horse and foot Cossacks



Fig. 5. Orenburg Equestrian Cossack Artillery


At the same time there are significant changes in the economy and the life of the Cossacks. Cossack fortresses, towns, outposts, settlements, and guards all lose more and more the features of temporary settlements. The Cossacks really inhabit the areas inhabited by them. The economy of the Cossacks becomes more stable and versatile. The welfare of the Cossacks depended on the size of government salaries, as well as the size of rights and privileges. It should be said that the monetary salary and clothing allowance was very small, at that time did not exceed one and a half rubles per year per Cossack. Although it mattered. For comparison: the annual rent (payment to the landowner or the state) of the average peasant at that time was about two rubles. Therefore, the most important privilege of the Cossacks was his exemption from all taxes (dues) and duties, except for military service. Cossacks are much better than even the Ural and Siberian peasants, were endowed with land and land. Their holdings were 4-8 times the holdings of neighboring peasants. True, in the Urals it was not at that time of significant importance, there was enough land for everyone. Much more important was the quality of plots and the size of rights to use pastures, hunting and fishing grounds of fields, forests, rivers and lakes. Therefore, in reality, the Cossacks lived more prosperously and had better living conditions than the neighboring peasantry. However, the life of the Cossacks, especially the rank and file, can not be painted in pink colors and colors. It was not simple and not easy, because the main duty of the Cossack - military service and defense of the Fatherland was very difficult, troublesome and dangerous. What really Ural Cossack could have income, except salary? There were several of them:

1. Mining, obtained in military campaigns. In case of luck, she could be very significant, especially if the Cossacks managed to capture thoroughbred horses, which were highly valued. Therefore, the seizure of Bashkir, Nogai, Kirghiz-Kaysak, Karakalpak herds was one of the most common types of military industry among the Cossacks. However, the nomads in this in no way inferior to the villagers. Reading the documents about these incidents, it can be said that for those and others it was not only a day-to-day business, but also a kind of sport.

2. An important source of income was agriculture. True, agriculture was at least important, but secondary. His development was hampered by military service, due to which the Cossacks were forced to leave the house for a long time. The development of agriculture restrained the constant military danger from the nomads, who especially willingly attacked those working in the field far from outposts. But animal husbandry, especially the breeding of horses, was well developed. Horticulture was also developing, but mainly to meet family needs. In the southern regions, watermelons and melons were grown in large quantities for sale.

3. One of the main income items of the Cossacks was hunting and fishing, the benefit of fish and game was abundant. For the Cossacks who lived along rivers, fishing was often more profitable than the zipun trips. Cossacks in the most jealous way guarded their privilege - the right of bugren. Only servant Cossacks were allowed to aggravate (retired or not serving this right did not have). “And it so happens that one Cossack who is lucky enough to have from forty to fifty or more sturgeon will catch, and will win twenty or thirty rubles in the same way ...” Commercial fishing was developed not only on Yaik, but also on Miass, Tobol, Iset and other rivers and lakes, which are numerous in these lands.

4. Orenburg Cossacks had the right to engage in crafts. These included: carting, maintenance of fords and carriage, breaking of stone, rafting of wood, beekeeping. The special crafts included the production of wonderful shawls from goat down and Armenian camel hair.

5. Orenburg Cossacks were engaged in trade. The main items of trade were: bread, cattle, leather, oil, lard, fish, salt, factory goods and products.

In general, taking into account these and other incomes, the Cossacks in the Urals were always quite prosperous, especially in comparison with the peasantry of the central provinces of Russia. But this higher standard of living was achieved at the price of constant, very difficult works of the peaceful and military.

Separately, I would like to dwell on the ethnic origins of the new Cossack army. Centuries-old multi-ethnic история and the process of subsequent Russification of the indigenous and natural Russian Cossack troops (Don, Volga, Yaik) was described in detail by Cossack historians and writers and was also touched upon in many articles of the series on the history of Cossacks (http://topwar.ru/22250-davnie-kazachi-predki .html; http://topwar.ru/31291-azovskoe-sidenie-i-perehod-donskogo-voyska-na-moskovskuyu-sluzhbu.html).

But despite this, as well as despite the facts and even his own eyes, the majority of Russian citizens stubbornly believe that the Cossacks are an exclusively Russian phenomenon, mainly because they so want to consider these citizens themselves. In this regard, it is curious to pay attention also to the multi-ethnic character of the troops, which were no longer formed spontaneously, but by government administrative measures. There is no doubt that the main supplier of the fighters to the newly formed army was the Russian ethnos, but the participation of other ethnic groups with their subsequent Russification and recapitalization should not be underestimated. As is well known, popular proverbs and sayings are a concentrated clot of the philosophy of the past. So, the saying "The eye is narrow, the nose is ply, according to the Russian passport - our main people outside the Volga" characterizes the ethnographic situation in the Trans-Volga region, in the Urals and in Siberia. And the Orenburg Cossacks in this matter are not at all an exception.

What are the main ethnic groups participated in the creation of the Orenburg Cossacks?

Almost simultaneously with the Orenburg Cossack army and in its immediate vicinity, the Stavropol Kalmyk Cossack army is being formed. The Kalmyk horde took Russian citizenship back in 1655, and since then has served the kings military service. The Russian government did not interfere in the internal affairs of the Kalmyk uluses, but the Orthodox Church quite actively conducted missionary activity among them. As a result, in 1724, up to 1,500 Kalmyk families (tents) accepted the Orthodox faith. At first, they continued to live in their old places between Tsaritsyn and Astrakhan, but living together with the unbaptized did not go well, "and being baptized with unbaptized Kalmyks in the vicinity have always quarrels between themselves and without that can not live." Kalmyk Khan Donduk Ombo “bothersomely asked” the Russian authorities to remove the baptized Kalmyks from unbaptized. 21 May 1737, by decree of Empress Anna Ioannovna, they were resettled to the Zakamsk defensive line and the city of Stavropol (Volzhsky) was founded. Command and control was arranged according to a Cossack pattern. Later, the Stavropol Kalmyk army was incorporated into the Orenburg Cossack army and relocated to new lines. During the centuries-old cohabitation and service with the Orenburg Cossacks, today, the baptized Kalmyks almost became Russified.


Fig. 6. Group photo of the Orenburg Cossacks of the late XIX century. It is impossible not to pay attention to the diversity of individuals.


Despite the rather frequent uprisings of the Bashkirs and their active participation in the Pugachev riot government, the farther away, the more attracted the Bashkirs to military service and the protection of the border line. The first step in this direction was made by Ivan the Terrible, who attracted the Bashkir detachments to participate in the Livonian War. Peter I, although he feared the Bashkir rebels, widely used their troops in the Northern War. After the suppression of the Bashkir uprising of 1735-1741, the Bashkirs are increasingly attracted to the border service, but they are put in a mixture with more reliable units from the mecheryakov, serving Tatars, Nagaibaks and Cossacks. As this happened, the Bashkirs, by their estate and legal status, are increasingly beginning to converge with the Cossacks. In the 1754 year, the Bashkirs removed the obligation to pay tribute. The tsar's decree directly stated that the Bashkirs "without paying a tribute to the tribute, would be the only servants like the Cossacks." 10 April 1798 was followed by a decree introducing a cantonal control system in Bashkiria, which finally turned the Bashkirs and mescheryaks into a military estate modeled after the Cossacks. Bashkir and Meshcheryak Cossacks, as well as teptyary, were actively attracted to participate in wars and foreign campaigns. In the 1812-1814 years, after Don, the Cossack troops from the Urals were the second largest sent to the front. The 43 regiment sent them to fight Napoleon, including the Bashkir 28. After World War II, several thousand French prisoners of war were enrolled in the Orenburg Cossacks. However, the main task of the Urals was to protect the border line from Tobol to Guriev. In 20-30-s of the XIX century to 70% of the Cossacks on the border line were Bashkirs and Mescheryaks. In general, the Bashkir-Mescheryak army was the largest Cossack army in the Urals by the beginning of the 19th century.


Fig. 7. Bashkir Cossack beginning of the XIX century


In 30-50-s of the XIX century begins the gradual disbandment of the Bashkir-Mescheryak army. Part of the Bashkirs and mecheryakov internal cantons transferred to the Orenburg and Ural troops, others in the tax-paying population. After the end of the Crimean War and the conquest of the Caucasus, internal reforms began in Russia. In the military, they were conducted by the Minister of War Milyutin, some of which concerned the Cossacks. He had the idea of ​​dissolving the Cossacks in the general mass of the Russian people. He prepared and 1 January 1863 of the year sent a note to the troops, which suggested:
- to replace the Cossack general service with a set of eager people who love this business;
- establish free access and exit of people from the Cossack state;
- introduce personal land tenure;
- to distinguish in the Cossack regions a military unit from a civil one, a judicial one from an administrative part, and to introduce the imperial law into judicial proceedings and the judicial system.

On the part of the Cossacks, this reform met with sharp opposition, because in fact it meant the elimination of the Cossacks. The Cossacks indicated to the Minister of War three immutable beginnings of Cossack life:
- public land ownership;
- caste isolation troops;
- The custom of electing and self-government.

Decisive opponents of reforming the Cossacks were many grandees and, above all, Prince Baryatinsky, who had subdued the Caucasus mainly with Cossack sabers. The emperor Alexander II himself did not decide on such a reform of the Cossacks. After all, even 2 of October 1827 of the year (9-years old), he, then the heir and Grand Duke, was appointed ataman of all the Cossack troops. Military atamans became his governors in the Cossack regions. All his childhood, youth and youth were surrounded by Cossacks: uncles, orderlies, orderlies, instructors, trainers and educators. In the end, after many disputes, a letter was declared confirming the rights and privileges of the Cossacks. But the Bashkir-Meshcheryak army failed to defend. The army was abolished according to the highest approved opinion of the State Council "On the transfer of control of the Bashkirs from the military to the civil department" from July 2 of 1865. But a significant part of the Bashkir, Mishar, Nagaibak and Teptyar soldiers by this time was already in the Orenburg army. Most of the descendants of these fighters have now completely become Russified and know about their origin only from family legends.


Fig. 8. Group photo of the beginning of the 20th century Cossacks-Nagaibaks of the village of Paris


At the same time, in places of compact residence in the Chebarkulsky and Nagaybaksky districts of the Chelyabinsk region, descendants of the Cossacks – Nagaibaks (baptized Tatars) have so far preserved bilingualism (they speak Russian and Tatar) and many elements of national culture. But urbanization and industrialization take their toll. The descendants of the Nagaibak Cossacks are sent for permanent residence in the cities, and those living in the diaspora are now practically Russified.


Fig. 9. Sabantuy (plow festival) in the Nagaibak village Paris, Chelyabinsk region in our time


It was in such conditions that the Orenburg Cossack army was formed and became the third largest among the eleven Cossack troops, eleven pearls in the brilliant military crown of the Russian Empire. Until the liquidation of the Cossacks by the Soviet authorities, the Orenburg Cossacks did a lot of noble deeds, but this is a completely different story.


Fig. 10. Orenburg Cossacks-foragers in the Turkestan campaign


Materials used:
Mamonov V.F. and others. The history of the Cossacks of the Urals. Orenburg, Chelyabinsk, 1992.
Shibanov N.S. Orenburg Cossacks. XVIII — XIX centuries. Chelyabinsk, 2003.
Gordeev A.A. History of the Cossacks.
Author:
Articles from this series:
Siberian Cossack Epic
Old Cossack ancestors
Cossacks and the annexation of Turkestan
Education Volga and Yaitsky Cossack Troops
Cossacks in Time of Troubles
Seniority (education) and the formation of the Don Cossack troops in the Moscow service
Azov seat and the transition of the Don troops in the Moscow service
Formation of the Dnieper and Zaporizhia troops and their service to the Polish-Lithuanian state
The transfer of the Cossack army hetman to the Moscow service
Treason of Mazepa and the pogrom of Cossack liberties by Tsar Peter
The uprising of Pugachev and the elimination of the Dnieper Cossacks by Empress Catherine
Cossacks in World War 1812 of the year. Part I, pre-war
Cossacks in World War 1812 of the year. Part II, the invasion and expulsion of Napoleon
Cossacks in World War 1812 of the year. Part III, foreign campaign
Formation of the Kuban Army
The feat of the young Platov (Battle of the Kalalah on the third of April, 1774)
Education Orenburg Cossack troops
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  1. SILAnov
    SILAnov April 4 2014 09: 10
    +3
    Revival of the Cossacks - Revival of Russia !!! soldier
  2. Refugee from Kazakhstan
    Refugee from Kazakhstan April 4 2014 10: 03
    0
    Something that some narrow-eyed Cossacks!
  3. Marks
    Marks April 4 2014 11: 25
    11
    Monument to the Cossacks in Orenburg. There was a lot of controversy over white or red, they simply decided the Orenburg Cossacks!
    1. bandabas
      bandabas April 4 2014 18: 32
      0
      That's right. And then we have- "Pans are fighting, but the lads have their forelocks cracking." A common example is modern Ukraine
  4. Nagaibak
    Nagaibak April 4 2014 11: 32
    +9
    I liked the article. Put a plus. However, I would like to note some inaccuracies in the article.
    1. "But a significant part of the Bashkir, Misharsk, Nagaybak and Teptyar soldiers by this time was already in the Orenburg army."
    This statement is not clear.
    The Bashkir-Meshcheryak army is a separate formation NOT related to the Orenburg Cossack army. Bashkirs and Meshcheryaks with teppers were in this army. In fact, it would be like a Cossack army. They also had the ranks of a mediocre coroner.))) In the Cossack troops, they were just a corral. That is, you confused the troops. The Ataman regiment and the 3rd OKP participated in the overseas campaign against Napoleon from OKW. And two more regiments called up before the war of 1812. There were no Bashkirs with Meshcheryaks in OKV.
    Before the period of the OKW considered by the author, the Russian-Swedish war of 1790, the Russian-Turkish war and the wars with Napoleon 1812-1814 took part. The Russo-Turkish War of 1829, the Suppression of the Polish Uprising of 1830, the unsuccessful campaign of Perovsky to Central Asia.
    2. Nagaybaki, Kalmyks of the Stavropol Cossack army and Muslim Tatars (former service Tatars, Kundra Tatars are descendants of the Nogais.) - They were part of the Orenburg Cossack army. And they were Orenburg Cossacks.
    3. The role of attributed Cossacks is not covered, but they doubled the number of troops at least. These were Russian peasants and white arable soldiers.
    4. "In the 20-30s of the XIX century, up to 70% of the Cossacks on the border line were Bashkirs and Meshcheryaks."
    I have other numbers. "In 1840, my first trip to a two-hundredth detachment to the ruler of the Middle Horde .... The head of the detachment was the military foreman Lobov. The detachment consisted of two hundred Cossacks and five hundred Bashkirs." p.10 "Notes of N.V. Agapov: from the marching life of the Orenburg Cossacks." - Orenburg, 2013.
    Not at all 70%.
    The first ataman of OKV was V. Mogutov. Man led the army for over 30 years! It was possible to mention him, because it was the time of the formation of the army.
    5. According to the photo. Fig. No. 6 Two Cossacks in furry hats are the Urals. Not Orenburgers.
    6. In the photo Fig. 9. most likely Kazakh. They also live in Paris, percent 10.))) Nagaybaki depicted in a group photo of the beginning of the century. Apparently there are European and Asian types.
    7.Fig. 8. It’s a pity there is no Marek Rozna.))) I would definitely point him to the Cossack Nagaybaks with balalaikas in their hands.))) And he claimed that Russian Cossacks with balalaikas are the fruit of Soviet propaganda.))) And here with balalaikas, yes also the Türks.))) The Cossack in the middle is interested in embroidery on the shirt)))
    1. vzvodnik
      vzvodnik April 4 2014 17: 01
      +1
      Quote: Nagaibak
      The first ataman of OKV was V. Mogutov. Man led the army for over 30 years! It was possible to mention him.

      And about the chieftain Dutov, of course!
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Turkir
      Turkir April 4 2014 18: 42
      0
      And I liked the article and your comments. The main thing for me is that you are not indifferent. Thank.
    4. Atash
      Atash April 4 2014 22: 45
      0
      Hello Nagaybak! Congratulations on this article.
      Quote: Nagaibak
      He pointed to the Cossacks Nagaybakov with balalaikas


      So there is a violin nearby. Also a "primordial" Cossack instrument?
      Your will, it seems to me, the photo more confirms the opinion of Marek - the overall composition of the photo looks artificial, propaganda. And embroidery too. Soviet propaganda continued the imperial tradition of eradicating the memory of the Turks in Russia.
    5. Guard
      Guard April 7 2014 18: 51
      +1
      Quote: Nagaibak
      6. In the photo Fig. 9. most likely Kazakh. They also live in Paris, percent 10.))) Nagaybaki depicted in a group photo of the beginning of the century. Apparently there are European and Asian types.

      In black and white, IMHO, also Kazakh. In my opinion, the Bashkirs did not have such a headgear. And the Kazakhs and Kyrgyz have it.
      Quote: Nagaibak
      . Fig. 8. It’s a pity there is no Marek Rozna.))) I would definitely point him to the Cossack Nagaybaks with balalaikas in their hands.))) And he claimed that Russian Cossacks with balalaikas are the fruit of Soviet propaganda.))) And here with balalaikas, yes also the Türks.)))

      ;))))
      There is also a violin nearby - also a national Cossack instrument))) Personally, it’s a balalaika, a violin that cuts the eyes in this photo (with all due respect to these musical instruments).

      Z.Y. With great and sincere respect)
  5. Nagaibak
    Nagaibak April 4 2014 11: 50
    +4
    A little more information on the organizational aspects of military units in the Orenburg region.
    "The separate Orenburg corps consisted of: corps headquarters, 29th
    (numbering changed, from 1820 - 26th, from 1833 - 23rd, then 22nd) infantry division, garrison artillery of the Orenburg region
    ha represented by the 14th garrison artillery brigade (3,5
    foot companies) ?, engineering teams of the Orenburg district (in the city.
    Orenburg and Orsk)? ... Of the artillery in the corps was the District Ar-
    senal and 57th light artillery company, but in 1819. in connection with the
    by the aggravation of the situation, she was transferred to the Caucasus. Instead of her
    two Cossack horse-artillery companies No. 10 were formed
    and 11. The corps included the Neplyuevskoe military school (opened
    then in 1825, later transformed into a corps) ?, Military worker
    Tea Company No. 35, Orenburg Disabled Team, 12 Disabled
    teams in cities and 2 stage teams. Most of the troops were
    quartered in Orenburg, Uralsk, Orsk, Troitsk, Verkhne-
    Uralsk, Ufa, which also had their own disabled teams.
    Some of the battalions were stationed in the fortresses of the Orenburg line:
    Kizilsky, Tanalytsky, Magnetic, Zverinogolovskaya, Stepnoy.
    The cavalry of the corps were irregular: Orenburg
    Cossack army with two horse-artillery companies, Ural
    Cossack army, Bashkir-Meshcheryak (from 1855 - Bashkir)?
    army, Stavropol Kalmyk army and two Teptyar regiments,
    who were in the position of regular Cossack. "
    R. N. Rakhimov
    Separate Orenburg building:
    Projects and realities of the warring outskirts
    in the Nikolaev era.
  6. adok
    adok April 4 2014 11: 58
    +2
    Gumilev wrote about this. Türks (baptized) + Slavs + Germans + Finno-Ugric = Russian.

    the territory from Korea to the Black Sea has always been inhabited by kindred Turkic peoples - first they are the Huns, then the Huns, then the Turkic Kaganate, then the "Mongols" empire. therefore, any strong ruler (Chinggis Khan, Batu, Tamerlane) united vast territories in a matter of years and became a "great" ruler. but in fact his task was not so difficult because of the kinship of these peoples.

    only with the advent of Orthodoxy and Islam in the free steppes did a single people begin to share on the basis of. southern nomadic tribes where Islam came settled in cities and lost their identity. Northern nomadic peoples adopted Orthodoxy and served the Russian Tsar and were Russified. they were obliged only to fight — they did not pay any taxes, unlike the Russians. received a salary. it attracted more and more people. they all called themselves Cossacks - from the Turkic language they were literally free people. they were ruled by the Atamans - literally - the eldest person. created their Cossack camps - land, place.
    1. Turkir
      Turkir April 4 2014 18: 58
      +2
      Gumilev did not write about Russians like that. He wrote about complementarity, as about mutual understanding.
      As for the Turks, this is generally an interesting topic. It was not in vain that Gumilyov singled out this topic in a separate book "Ancient Turks".
      So, not everyone who speaks Turkic is a Turk. Gumilyov has this.
      I almost forgot that it will be interesting for you to read the book, which by the way came out only in 1991. "Jagfar Tarihi". It has not been accepted by official historians, but it has not been refuted either. In it I found many interesting facts and believe me, unless, of course, you have read it, that many things will be understood by you in a completely different way.
      In search of truth, one has to make difficult journeys.
  7. Nagaibak
    Nagaibak April 4 2014 12: 02
    +5
    "But despite this, and also contrary to the facts and even their own eyes, the majority of Russian citizens stubbornly believe that the Cossacks are an exclusively Russian phenomenon, mainly because they so want to consider these citizens themselves."
    1.Quality is certainly a Russian phenomenon. Like it or not. Yes, the Türks took part in its formation, and perhaps it went from them. But, by the 20th century, these were Russian people belonging to the Russian world. Denying this is stupid.
    2. The most multinational Cossack army of Orenburg. There was just nobody there. BUT, at the beginning of the 20th century, almost 80% of the troops were Russian Cossacks. I am silent about the Don and Kuban troops. There, the percentage of foreigners in the troops was minimal.
    1. Black
      Black April 4 2014 14: 05
      +2
      The article is a pleasure. Those who read carefully will find the difference between the Cossacks (as a people) and the Cossack Army, the author, in my opinion, draws a clear line between one and the other (this is to those who refer to the fact that the Cossacks are a runaway rabble).
      Quote: Nagaibak
      Cossacks are certainly a Russian phenomenon.

      You, Andrei, a special bow for clarification, for the subtleties ...
      Cossacks are a Russian phenomenon ... Is it Russian because we, Cossacks, belong to the Russian world? If in this sense, yes. But then, with the same approach, the Karakalpaks, Bashkirs, Kalmyks are also a Russian phenomenon ....
      There is a certain stretch in this. No?

      By balalaika .....
      You know, I’m also extremely surprised ... At us, on the Don, at least among the horsemen, the balalaika was not held in high esteem ..
      1. Nagaibak
        Nagaibak April 4 2014 16: 09
        +3
        Thanks for your kind words.
        Black "The Cossacks are a Russian phenomenon ... Is it Russian because we, the Cossacks, belong to the Russian world?"
        But the Cossacks do not speak Russian?))). In Chinese?))) I understand what you mean. But, I do not share the view that the Cossacks are just a separate people. If the Cossacks were not Russian people, they would speak the Turkic dialect, al bo what other. The rest does not hold water. I read a book about the dialects of the Ural Cossacks. Philologists concluded the Russian language with them.))) This is about, they say, their own special language among the Cossacks. Was in Mari El there in the northern regions the Russians live. Vyatka people.))) For every incomprehensible Cossack word I can easily find an incomprehensible Vyatka.))) Vyatka talk.))) And why. Nothing, they are the same Russian people.
        Cherniy "But then, with the same approach, the Karakalpaks, Bashkirs, Kalmyks are also a Russian phenomenon ...
        There is a certain stretch in this. No?"
        Now the inhabitants of Russia are all a Russian phenomenon.))) This is if with a stretch. A friend of mine told me how at the turn of the late 90s-2000 he landed on Polish bandits in Poland. They brought him to the main, and they turned out to be Chechens. We decided everything in his favor. They asked well, how is it at our home, in the homeland, in Moscow?))) I do not know if his story is true or not, but something like that with the Russian world.)))
        1. Atash
          Atash April 4 2014 23: 21
          +2
          Quote: Nagaibak
          If the Cossacks were not Russian people would speak the Turkic dialect


          Well, they still speak Turkic. Very few, yes. There are still such people, their "home" language is Turkic, or Tatar in another way.
          Here's from Murad Aji's "Polovtsian Field Wormwood":
          “In November 1991, at the Union Circle of Cossacks in Stavropol, I spoke about my search ... A guy came up and stunned. It turns out that the language of the ancestors, which I have already spoken about, has remained in the villages of the Don to this day. It is called the“ home ”language of the Cossacks.
          Everything, as in the last century! The same was noted by Leo Tolstoy in the novel “Cossacks”: “Well done, a Cossack flaunts knowledge of the Tatar language and, having walked around, even speaks Tatar with his brother.”
          1. Guard
            Guard April 7 2014 19: 02
            +1
            Quote: Atash
            The same was noted by Leo Tolstoy in the story "Cossacks"

            Until the 20th century, Cossacks in the Caucasus and in the Steppe all spoke Turkic. And even better than in Russian. However, the majority were ethnic Russians. In ancient times, Cossacks were from the Türks, and under the Romanovs, the Cossacks finally turned into a Russian sub-ethnos (by blood).
            Well, the modern descendants of the Cossacks are completely Russian. Both by blood, and by language and culture.
        2. Black
          Black April 4 2014 23: 31
          +1
          Quote: Nagaibak
          But the Cossacks do not speak Russian?

          Thank you for the effort to answer.
          Cossacks speak Russian. Now.
          But I assure you, a friend I brought as a student to visit the village, did not understand my grandmother at all. I constantly had to pound. And according to her stories, her grandmother still wore "panties". Very Russian ...
          The assimilation started by the politics of raskachachivaniya back in the 17th century gave its way. Self-identity has been blurred for centuries.
          Now we, no doubt, are Russians.
          py.s. I am not saying that this is bad ... it is.
      2. Nagaibak
        Nagaibak April 4 2014 16: 31
        +1
        Black "Balalaika .....
        "You know, I am also extremely surprised ... At us, on the Don, at least among the horsemen, the balalaika was not held in high esteem."
        Nagaybaks still have developed choral singing. They adopted this from the Russian Cossacks. Like the fact that they did not eat horse meat. By the way, pork too.
        Regarding the Russianness of the Cossacks, I can add more. I read epics and songs of the Ural Cossacks. I especially liked about the Cossack Ilya Muromets. About Yaik Gorynych.))) And after that they can be considered not Russian people?
        1. Atash
          Atash April 4 2014 23: 30
          +2
          From the same source:

          "Gorynya, Dubynya and Usynya - that is how these heroes were called before they became Ilya Muromets, Dobrynya Nikitich and Alyosha Popovich. It was they who drove the Wends from Central Europe, it was they who destroyed their primitive world: Gorynya" shakes the mountain on the little finger ", Dubynya" Dubye makes up ", Usynya" stole the river with his mouth, catches fish with his mustache ".
          The prototypes of the heroes were the Kipchaks - the enemies of the Wends.
          The analysis of these images has led literary critics into confusion: it turns out that the fabulous Russian heroes are derived from the "three-member Turkic group - the Fiery Serpent, the Deep Serpent, and the Water Serpent." This three-headed snake that has descended upon the Wends is also known in Baltic fairy tales, not to mention the Turkic ones.
          The serpent is a sign of the Turks, our symbol. The steppe dwellers even now address the respected person as "Gorynych" or "Azhidahaka". "End of quote.
        2. Black
          Black April 4 2014 23: 36
          +1
          Quote: Nagaibak
          Nagaybaks still have developed choral singing.

          To my shame, I know almost nothing about Nagaybaks ...
          I'll take action ... hi
        3. Guard
          Guard April 7 2014 19: 17
          +1
          Quote: Nagaibak
          Like the fact that they did not eat horse meat.

          If I am not mistaken, then the Nagaybaki eat horse meat. And pork too. Just less than Kazakh horse meat and Russian pork)
    2. Sour
      Sour April 4 2014 14: 08
      +3
      Who should be considered a foreigner?
      If all non-Russians, then in the Kuban army about half were Ukrainian-speaking Cossacks.
      If we consider the non-Orthodox to be foreigners, then we cannot consider the Mordvinians, who were part of the Orenburg and Siberian troops, to be foreigners. Yes, and the Nagaybaks are Orthodox.
      In short, the division into foreigners and Russians within the Cossacks does not have a clear border.
      The Siberian army included one Tatar village. The Tungus, and especially the Buryats, were accepted into the Transbaikal army. Among the Cossacks of the 2nd division of the Trans-Baikal army, many were drilled. The Don army included 13 Kalmyk villages (and in the 16-17th centuries there was one Tatar), the Terek army was also very international.
      1. Nagaibak
        Nagaibak April 4 2014 16: 18
        +2
        Sour "If all non-Russians, then in the Kuban army, about half were Ukrainian-speaking Cossacks."
        But Ukrainians are not Russian?))) Russia, Ukraine, Belarus is all Holy Russia !!!)))
        Sour "If we consider the non-Orthodox as non-Russians, then we cannot consider the Mordovians as foreigners, who were part of the Orenburg and Siberian troops."
        Mordovians are Orthodox.)))
        "Sour" As part of the Siberian army there was one Tatar village. The Tungus, and especially the Buryats, were accepted into the Transbaikal army. There were many Buryats among the Cossacks of the 2nd Division of the Trans-Baikal Army. The Don army included 13 Kalmyk villages (and in the 16-17 centuries there was one Tatar one), the Terek army was also very international. "
        I agree with you that yes, Cossack troops were multinational, but the Russian element still prevailed.
        Sour "There was one Tatar village in the Siberian army."
        The Siberian Cossack army of the Tatars was about 10%. Not one page for sure.
        1. Atash
          Atash April 4 2014 23: 44
          +3
          In my opinion, you take the Russified element for the Russian element. Again, there are Kipchaks of the initially light type. And the Ukrainians are not Slavs, but the Russified Kipchaks. What we hear now: Maidan, ghet. "Maidan" is Turkic without question. Now the Türks say "ket" - "go away, go", this is according to "get". Compare Ukrainians with Belarusians. Belarusians - Slavs, look at the nat. clothes, language - a slightly modified modern Russian. Ukrainian compared to Belarusian is simply a mockery of Russian, as if people were forced to speak a foreign language. But they live nearby. Among the Turks, nature, like language, is very changeable, amorphous. Modern Kazakhs, speaking Kazakh, can no longer do without Russians "already", "but". Especially incomprehensible is the love of the word "new", but there is an absolutely analogous simple word. That is, it is very easy to be Russified or weathered. The Turks are the same. Turgut Ozal complained that his grandchildren or grand-nephews did not understand him, although he did not use something Old Ottoman in his speech.
          1. Sour
            Sour April 5 2014 14: 40
            0
            Quote: Atash
            Again, there are Kipchaks of the originally bright type

            Stop repeating Civilihin's nonsense.
            This nonsense has long been refuted and only ignorant people believe in it.
            Archaeological evidence indicates that the Polovtsy (Kipchaks) were
            Mongoloid people.
            1. Atash
              Atash April 5 2014 20: 26
              +2
              Genghis Khan was a green-eyed and red-bearded. In my opinion, universally recognized. Kipchaks are not only Polovtsy, there are many, one phenotype, or whatever, is simply unlikely.
      2. Black
        Black April 4 2014 23: 42
        0
        Quote: Sour
        In short, the division into foreigners and Russians within the Cossacks does not have a clear border.

        I will say to the peak of you ...
        The Cossacks did not divide into Russians and foreigners ...
        There they clearly divided into Cossacks and newcomers, assigned, "primaks" ...
        This is on the Don.
        Kuban, Yaik, apparently, were more democratic.
    3. Atash
      Atash April 4 2014 23: 10
      +2
      And the founder of the Don army was called Saryk-Azman. Purely Russian name smile .
      Cossacks are Kipchaks living independently, without a khan, initially. In Turkic, the word "Cossack" means this status. Because it is very important whether you are under the khan or you don’t obey anyone. Then they were joined by the provided Russians and others, perhaps. And our name "Kazakhs" is not a coincidence. Khans Dzhanibek and Kerey left the subordination of the Sheibanids, as far as I remember, and so they became Cossacks with their subjects. This is one word in Turkic languages, and the last "x" was made by the Bolsheviks to distinguish them from the Cossacks. The Bolsheviks were no longer particularly in the subject, but before the revolution, in order to hide the fact that the Cossacks are Kipchaks, Turks, we, Kazakhs, stubbornly called "Kirghiz-Kaisaks" taken out of nowhere.
      Quote: Nagaibak
      By the 20th century, these were Russian people belonging to the Russian world.

      We all belong to the Russian world: Ukrainians, Kazakhs, Belarusians, and Georgians. But from this we do not cease to be Ukrainians, Kazakhs, Belarusians and Georgians. Russians live in cities with Turkic names: Kursk, Bryansk, Ryazan, Tula, etc. There were Ryazan Cossacks in their time. That is, the Kipchaks.
      1. Black
        Black April 4 2014 23: 52
        +1
        Quote: Atash
        We all belong to the Russian world: Ukrainians, Kazakhs, Belarusians, and Georgians. But from this we do not cease to be Ukrainians, Kazakhs, Belarusians and Georgians.


        Oh, some wonderful words! Lubo!
  8. Hort
    Hort April 4 2014 12: 15
    +1
    in the last photo, the color of the gymnasts is unnatural for some ... Article plus.
    1. Sour
      Sour April 4 2014 14: 16
      +1
      I know this photo from the book of A. Ganin. This photo is black and white.
    2. The centurion
      April 4 2014 20: 15
      +2
      Quote: hort
      on the last photo the color of the gymnasts is unnatural

      The photo is actually black and white; there could be no other in the 19 century. And this coloring, apparently not very reliable.
      1. Hort
        Hort April 7 2014 12: 15
        0
        I’m talking about this. It is clear that the photo is black and white in the original. But they didn’t guess with the coloring - some kind of too poisonous salad color turned out
  9. Nagaibak
    Nagaibak April 4 2014 12: 16
    +3
    In order not to be unfounded, I cite data on the national composition of OKV for 1891.
    "Along with the growth of the total population, the growth of the Orenburg Cossack army also took place. In 1891, the ethnic composition in the Orenburg Cossack army was as follows:

    The national composition of the OKW (1891)
    nationality number of Cossacks percentage
    Russian 287 324 87
    Tatars 21 581 6
    Nagaybaki 8 709 3
    Mordva 5 450 2
    Bashkirs 3 955 1
    Kalmyks 2 144 0,5
    Poles 80 -
    Chuvash 68 -
    In the 1st Orenburg military department of the Tatars, there were 17332 people, in the 2nd Verkhneuralsk military department - 4234 people, in the 3rd Troitsk military department - 3 people. In the army, 8 percent were of the Mohammedan faith. "
  10. Sour
    Sour April 4 2014 14: 58
    +2
    Curious facts from the history of the Cossacks.
    I suspect that not all supporters of the idea of ​​"the Cossacks as a people" will like it.
    During the Civil War, the villages of Mamaevskaya and Kapitonovskaya of the 3rd department of the Orenburg army were excluded from the army "for Bolshevism" on July 16.07.1918, XNUMX by the decision of the Military Circle.
    At the same time, in the same 1918, the Semirechensky army was replenished with 4 new villages - Ivanovskaya, Zakharyevskaya, Romanovskaya, Stefanovskaya. These are peasant volosts, accepted as part of the Semirechensky army for practically total resistance to Bolshevism.
    Somehow this does not really fit with the idea of ​​the Cossacks as a "nation". What kind of nation is this, into which one can be accepted and from which one can exclude?
    1. Nagaibak
      Nagaibak April 4 2014 16: 22
      +2
      Sour "Somehow this does not really fit with the idea of ​​the Cossacks as a" nation. "What kind of nation is this, into which you can accept and from which you can exclude?"
      It is hard to disagree with you.))) Whom they just did not accept their ranks.))) In the civilian circus in general was around.))) Just like in our time in Ukraine.
    2. Turkir
      Turkir April 4 2014 19: 05
      0
      Interesting topic.
      I want to ask, but do you know the book Evgraf Petrovich Savelyev "Ancient history of the Cossacks"1915 edition?
      1. Sour
        Sour April 5 2014 14: 38
        +1
        Yes, I know.
        In the Middle Ages, one could speak of Cossacks (and not everywhere) as an ethnic group. More precisely, about different ethnic groups.
        In the 17-20 centuries, this is certainly an estate.
        In the 30-40s of the 20th century it was a branch of the army.
        Now it is a social movement.
        This is somehow the case. The term "Cossacks" at different times carried different meanings.
  11. xan
    xan April 4 2014 15: 01
    -1
    empire is not khukh-mukhra!
    I didn’t even know about the Meshcheryaks, Nagaybaks, Teppers, and others, and in the empire no one bothered with nationality and nationality — they were simply identified as Cossacks and that’s all, an imperial warrior! And they added French prisoners with Poles, this audience is more complicated, but in the next generation it’s definitely our warriors, and even what!
    1. Sour
      Sour April 4 2014 15: 10
      +1
      The Ural Cossacks also included many descendants of Poles, mercenaries and gentry, participants of the Troubles of the early 17th century, who fled to the Ural steppes and settled there.
      Their characteristic feature were surnames ending in "-skov, -tskov". For example, the Ural Cossacks with the surname Minovskov had Polish ancestors with the surname Minovskiy, Novitskov - with the surname Novitskiy, etc.
      1. Nagaibak
        Nagaibak April 4 2014 16: 24
        +1
        Sour "Their characteristic feature were surnames ending in" -skov, -tskov ". For example, the Ural Cossacks with the surname Minovskov had Polish ancestors with the surname Minovskiy, Novitskov - with the surname Novitskiy, etc."
        But the Urals did not know these features. Thank.
      2. Yaik Cossack
        Yaik Cossack April 5 2014 09: 55
        +1
        An interesting version, but what about the Donskoys, Azovskovs and other similar names?
        1. Sour
          Sour April 5 2014 14: 42
          0
          Quote: Yaitsky Cossack
          An interesting version, but what about the Donskoys, Azovskovs and other similar names?

          I don’t know, I can’t say.
          I have a friend by the name of Donskov. Hereditary resident of the Nizhny Novgorod region. His ancestors clearly had nothing to do with Cossacks.
  12. Silvio
    Silvio April 4 2014 15: 39
    +4
    Quote: Sour
    Somehow this does not really fit with the idea of ​​the Cossacks as a "nation". What kind of nation is this, into which one can be accepted and from which one can exclude?

    We talked about it already. Cossacks are an estate, not a nation. The determining factor is the class factor, all the talk about the existence of such a nation is the speculation of Russian and Turkic nationalists. The revival of the previously existing paramilitary class in Russia has no real prerequisites and is simply impossible.
    1. Yaik Cossack
      Yaik Cossack April 5 2014 10: 17
      0
      I want to say right away that no one wants to engage in separatism, and it’s stupid to assume, the merits of the Cossacks in the construction of Russia are difficult to overestimate. The question of our self-identification is our question, and there is nothing for any "experts" to go into there. Cossacks have all the signs of a people - their history, territory of residence, dialects, customs, typical physiology and faces, and division into friends and foes. Look at the book, published before the revolution by the Russian Academy "Peoples inhabiting the Russian Empire", there is a Cossack people. And who, besides the Cossacks, after the abolition of the estates, remember in what class their ancestors were? Having gone through the civil war and repression and having lost 3/4 of our numbers, having gone through Sovietization, we know that we are Cossacks. This does not apply to Cossacks dressed up in spirit and clinically ill.
      1. Sour
        Sour April 5 2014 14: 45
        +1
        Quote: Yaitsky Cossack
        there are Cossacks people

        Cossacks of Transbaikalia, Cossacks of Terek and Cossacks of the Urals did not speak the same dialect, did not have a common origin. Only ignorant people can speak of Cossacks as a nation. And I don't care about your self-identification. You can call yourself at least a Pecheneg or an ancient Greek, but that will not change anything. One can attribute oneself only to a really existing nation, and not to some kind of fool invented at the desk.
        The Cossacks did not have a single territory, a single language, a single religion, or a single origin. Only rights and obligations were united, and even then in the era of the Empire. What kind of nation is this? With such success, the merchants can be called a nation. Identify yourself as you like - what's the point?
        1. Atash
          Atash April 5 2014 20: 58
          +2
          If you don't know anything about Desht-i-Kipchak, then you may be right. But just like that.
          Quote: Sour
          not a single territory, not a single language, not a single religion, not a single origin.

          A single territory - Don, from there they began to send out. Batu also dispersed many people from there. It is believed that he fought mainly against certain Kipchak clans. The common language of the original "Cossacks" is Turkic. Religion is what a topic, Tengrism, reborn into Christianity. Origin? Well, I have already posted about this, they rendered everyone in a row to dilute to zero concentration, here is the result - you are talking about the absence of a single origin.
  13. Sour
    Sour April 4 2014 18: 18
    +2
    Quote: Nagaibak
    The Siberian Cossack army of the Tatars was about 10%. Not one page for sure.

    As of January 1, 1914, there were 167 souls in the Siberian army, including 985 generals and officers with families. The army was divided into three divisions, which included 1349 villages, 48 villages and 123 settlements.
    National composition: Russians (including Little Russians and Belarusians) - 94,3%, Mordovians - 4, 89%, Tatars - 0,81%.
    Religious composition: Orthodox - 98,19%, Old Believers - 1,0%, Muslims - 0,81%.
    Muslim Tatars lived in the village of the Tatarsky village of Cherlakovskaya, 2nd division of the army. After the February Revolution, the village was separated into a separate village - Tatar.
    1. Nagaibak
      Nagaibak April 4 2014 19: 49
      +1
      Sour "National composition: Russians (including Little Russians and Belarusians) - 94,3%, Mordovians - 4, 89%, Tatars - 0,81%."
      I admit, I was mistaken.))) Damn, there is no ash at hand.))) So I would have sprinkled my head.)))
      1. Sour
        Sour April 4 2014 19: 50
        0
        I also have no ashes. And then I would send you by mail. Alas.)))
  14. belovur
    belovur April 4 2014 21: 48
    +1
    Now in the Orenburg region in almost every administration there is a specialist in the affairs of the Cossacks and military personnel. Only the Cossacks have no business. It is a pity that the glorious estate goes down in history.
    1. Silvio
      Silvio April 5 2014 13: 50
      +2
      Let's not dissemble, this estate has already gone down in history, as well as the nobility, for example. The estate rested on privileges and special state functions assigned to it. The empire was actively expanding as early as the 19th century. and the importance of the Cossacks in colonizing and protecting the borders of vast territories was paramount. Already in the 20th century. commodity-money relations destroyed not only the traditional way of life of the Russian countryside, but also undermined the ideological steadfastness of the Cossacks. Now it’s a completely different time, there are no colonial tasks and the Cossacks were remembered for the sake of maintaining military-patriotic traditions.
  15. Atash
    Atash April 4 2014 23: 51
    +2
    Quote: Nagaibak
    What kind of nation is this


    But they never called themselves Russians, maybe only very recently, when at the end they began to lose the memory of their roots. And so: "Are you Russian? -No, Cossack" Russian Cossacks were called, I am a Nazi muzzle, ami, Ukrainians are Ukrainians.
    1. Sour
      Sour April 5 2014 14: 34
      0
      Quote: Atash
      But they never called themselves Russian,

      I know for sure that up to the 50s of Great Danes, many Vologda residents from rural areas did not consider themselves Russian. When asked who is by nationality, they answered: "I am a Vologda citizen." As my father, a veteran of the Second World War, told me, the army personnel officers called the Vologda Oblast "the 17th republic" for this. Then there were 16 union republics within the USSR.
      1. Sour
        Sour April 5 2014 15: 48
        +1
        By the way, until the 30s, nomadic Uzbeks from the Syr Darya basin did not call themselves Uzbeks. Most often they called themselves either "Türk" or by the name of the genus (Karluk, Barlas, etc.). Germans in some regions of southern Germany began to call themselves "Deutsch" only under Hitler.
        1. Guard
          Guard April 7 2014 19: 29
          +1
          Quote: Sour
          By the way, until the 30s, nomadic Uzbeks from the Syr Darya basin did not call themselves Uzbeks. Most often they called themselves either "Türk" or by the name of the genus (Karluk, Barlas, etc.).

          All right. And for a long time they could not get it, why they suddenly became one people with Sarts, despite the strong difference in phenotype, culture, language, cuisine, mentality.
          But during the Soviet era, they got used to the name "Uzbek" and identify themselves as one with the descendants of the Sarts.
          Quote: Sour
          Germans in some regions of southern Germany began to call themselves "Deutsch" only under Hitler.

          When the Bavarian elector signed a treaty to join the German Empire at the end of the 19th century, he said: "Wir wollen Teutsche sein, aber Bayern bleiben "(" We want to become Germans, but remain Bavarians ").
  16. Atash
    Atash April 5 2014 00: 06
    +2
    Quote: Atash
    They called Russian Cossacks, I am the Nazi face, Ami, Ukrainians Ukrainians.


    Well, what are you doing? Cossacks are many different, I say what I heard, read.
    In Kazakhstan, the Semirechinsk Cossacks lived well with the locals, just as the locals hated migrant peasants. Dutov and Annenkov spoke Kazakh for a reason. Historically native language, easily acquired.
    In general, this is the same policy of Moscow to destroy the Kipchak trace in the history of Russia. They sent them to the Cossacks, encouraged the training, forced to help, even the French and the Poles, so that they quickly turned Russified. And then they launched a myth: the estate that arose from the runaways. And Peter 1 gave the Don army a symbol: a naked man on a barrel of wine, a wino in one word. Yes, drunkenness was severely punished always in the Cossacks.
    1. Sour
      Sour April 5 2014 14: 52
      0
      Quote: Atash
      and Annenkov spoke Kazakh for a reason

      When did Boris Vladimirovich Annenkov manage to master the Kazakh language? He was born and raised in Ukraine, graduated from the Odessa Cadet Corps and the Alexander Moscow Infantry Junker School. Until 19 years, he was unlikely to see a living Kazakh.
      1. Atash
        Atash April 5 2014 21: 06
        +1
        He even sang a Kazakh song when he was shot. Well, if the Don is still spoken in Turkic at home, then Annenkov could at least have heard enough from childhood.
      2. Guard
        Guard April 7 2014 19: 41
        +1
        Quote: Sour
        When did Boris Vladimirovich Annenkov manage to master the Kazakh language?

        Annenkov owned Kazakh perfectly. This is emphasized by different authors. Indeed, the Kazakhs have a memory that before the execution the chieftain sang a song in the Kazakh language.
  17. bublic82009
    bublic82009 April 5 2014 02: 09
    0
    interesting and informative article. learned a lot for myself
  18. Yaik Cossack
    Yaik Cossack April 5 2014 10: 41
    0
    photo fig. 6 - these are Cossacks of the Life Guards of His Majesty the Ural Cossack Hundreds, and not Orenburg. The Ural Cossacks (Ural) they are the same Yaitsky one, and the Orenburgers is another, do not be confused. Targeted, the Orenburgers are trying to steal the name and history of the Urals, especially impostors from Sverdlovsk. Again, I want to say that I know a lot of Orenburg-decent people, but the family is not without freaks.
    1. Sour
      Sour April 5 2014 15: 19
      +1
      The Cossacks in the photo are not guards anyway. They are dressed too differently. There is only one white guard belt in general. Your version is not entirely convincing.
      At the far left is the Berdan rifle of a Cossack model. He, by the way, has no checkers. Apparently, judging by the rifle, this is the era of Alexander the 2nd or 3rd. The one on the far right has uniforms of the Siberian or Turkestan linear rifle battalion. It is hardly a Cossack at all. The one sitting below has a checker, but has a white uniform and black trousers without stripes. Judging by the form - a Turkestan shooter, only for some reason with a saber. He didn’t have a headdress at all, neither the Cossacks, nor the shooters, except for the sergeants. Perhaps they are all Cossacks, dressed up differently because of the long fighting situation. But I see no reason to classify them all as guardsmen.
      1. Sour
        Sour April 5 2014 15: 44
        +1
        By the way, the far right does not have a saber belt, which was worn over the right shoulder. There he has only a rifle strap. Over his left shoulder he had a sword belt, which was characteristic of non-commissioners and sergeants. Again, the sword belt is not guards. In his left hand it is not clear to him that either a checker, or a nut with a long cut. But this item does not hang on it. And in general, a strange photo.
        You saw him in the internet, and read the signature under it. You didn’t want to take a closer look at it. Signature completely satisfied you.
        1. Yaik Cossack
          Yaik Cossack April 5 2014 16: 04
          0
          follow the link, photos from the same series, on the same background, with the same people
          http://www.yaik.ru/forum/showthread.php?6022-%D0%A3%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8C%D1%8
          1%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F-%D1%81%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%BD%D1%8F-1892-%D0%B3%D0%BE%D0%B4&p=786
          94 # post78694
          1. Sour
            Sour April 5 2014 16: 28
            0
            You are reluctant to think about what I said. Therefore, you suggest to follow the link. There is nothing new for me. Nothing at all. Photos without comment by their authors mean nothing.
  19. Silvio
    Silvio April 5 2014 15: 57
    +1
    Quote: Atash
    In general, this is the same policy of Moscow to destroy the Kipchak trace in the history of Russia. They sent them to the Cossacks, encouraged the training, forced to help, even the French and the Poles, so that they quickly turned Russified. And then they launched a myth: the estate that arose from the runaways.

    It is unlikely that anyone will question the significance of the nomadic culture of the Turkic peoples in the formation of the Cossacks, but this does not lose its class essence. At least if we talk about Cossacks since the 18th century. The national aspect of the Cossacks is interesting for the sake of affirming the viability of nationalist ideas. If there is a certain historical community of people with glorious traditions and undeniable merits to the current state, then, as a rule, there is a tendency to attribute this community to their nationality. What to do, victories always had many relatives ...
    1. Sour
      Sour April 5 2014 16: 34
      +2
      Quote: Silvio
      It is unlikely that anyone will question the significance of the nomadic culture of the Turkic peoples in the formation of the Cossacks, but this does not lose its class essence.

      Representatives of the Turkic peoples (and not only them) were among all the classes of the Empire. And their percentage was no lower than among the Cossack class. A huge number of noble families were of Turkic origin (and German, and Caucasian, and Polish, etc.) What does this change? That the nobles in Russia were a separate nationality? And that someone wants to "destroy the Kipchak trace"? This is already paranoia. By the type of Maidan.
    2. Atash
      Atash April 5 2014 21: 33
      +1
      The Semirechye army fought with the Kokandans; this alone automatically provoked the sympathy of the local Kazakhs, who were already forced to be settled, because the settlements did not allow them to roam. And when you are settled, you yourself can no longer defend yourself from military people.
      I have enough of our own victories, even if there are not many. And the Cossacks are nice to me, I'm glad to know about new relatives. I would be happy to sympathize with the victories of the Russian Empire, but these victories were to please certain European camps, the Cossacks used there, but I am glad of their glory, but I do not feel any need to get some of their laurels.

      There is a very interesting point. In the 80s in Argentina, an old Cossack visited a Soviet exhibition. "In the first German one for years I did not go out, but in the Civil and the second German one I hacked you red-bellied bastards, notably hacked you. There is no root in you. I was thrown here like a weed, and I overgrown farming, with earth."
      Someone here on the forum had a father-in-law seven times racked up, six times he again "overgrown" the economy.
      Like it or not, they are real Cossacks. Here they do not belong, unfortunately, I think. We Kazakhs also have a million Kazakhs abroad, and they have preserved their true Kazakh life, mentality, and religion there. And those who survived here are already something else, I'm afraid, spineless.
  20. Yaik Cossack
    Yaik Cossack April 5 2014 16: 36
    0
    There is no need to substitute concepts; the essence of the Cossacks is not class. Cossacks lived in their territories long before the borders of the Moscow state crept there. For example, in Uralsk (the capital of the Ural Cossack army), traces of a settled settlement with traces of the Slovenian and Polovtsian culture date back to the 9-10th century.
    1. Sour
      Sour April 5 2014 17: 01
      0
      How do the Don Cossacks and peasants of the Don Army Region (not to be confused with the Don nonresident) who lived among the Cossacks from the 18th century differ in ethnic sense?
      They spoke the same dialects. The huts were built in the same manner, they went to the same churches.
      The differences were in state duties and privileges and related traditions. But these are purely class differences, not ethnic ones. After all, the traditions of the nobility or clergy differed from the peasant no less than the traditions of the Cossacks.
      However, if you have driven myths into your head, then this is forever. It's like a mine put on the indecisiveness, and so are the myths in the head too. Otherwise, an explosion, a break in all the usual patterns. It’s better not to extract such a mine.
    2. Sour
      Sour April 5 2014 17: 03
      -1
      Quote: Yaitsky Cossack
      Cossacks lived in their territories long before the borders of the Moscow state crept there.

      This does not apply to all Cossacks, but only to some. Most Cossack troops were created artificially. And the Ural army after the accession of the Younger Zhuz could be disbanded. From a military point of view, it was no longer needed. But here the role was played by questions of domestic and class politics.
      1. Yaik Cossack
        Yaik Cossack April 5 2014 17: 35
        0
        there are natural Cossacks Donets, Tertsy, Urals and Kubans. And the majority, "artificially" created, were created due to the resettlement of natural Cossacks. What does it mean to disband ?! The Urals fought for Russia in 35 wars, and this is both before the accession of the Kazakhs and after, in addition to the internal border service, they formed regiments for external service. ... And the Kazakhs, both before and after the accession, continued to steal and steal cattle, kill and steal people and sell them to Central Asia. Can you imagine what an army is? The army is autonomy with all the consequences, the first thing after the revolution in the Urals, as well as on the Don, republics were proclaimed.
        1. [comment-show]
          Sour
          Sour April 5 2014 17: 48
          0
          Quote: Yaitsky Cossack
          Can you imagine what an army is?

          Imagine no stupider than you.
          Quote: Yaitsky Cossack
          And the majority, "artificially" created, were created due to the resettlement of natural Cossacks.

          This is a lie, and complete. Don't lie to me. I know the history of the Cossacks clearly better than you. Both among the Kuban and among the Terts were full of peasants enrolled in the Cossacks. Among Orenburg residents they made up one third, among Siberians and Semirech residents, half, among the Transbaikal residents the majority.
          Don Kalmyks to which nation should be ranked - "Cossack" or "Kalmyk"? Trans-Baikal Buryats? Etc.
          Quote: Yaitsky Cossack
          The Urals fought for Russia in 35 wars, and this, both before the accession of the Kazakhs and after, in addition to the internal border service, they formed regiments for foreign service

          And what do you mean by that? What kind of Russia did the Cossacks fight? And the rest of the estate during the wars on the stove sat?
          The disbandment of this army would not affect the combat effectiveness of the Russian army. If anything, the regular cavalry fought for Russia no worse than the Cossacks. Have you heard about the Balaclava battle? Then the British cavalry Cardigan overturned the 1st Ural Cossack Regiment and drove him like rams. The situation was saved by the counterattack of the Odessa and Bug Lancers, which cut down over 400 Angles and saved the Urals from defeat. So everyone fought for Russia, not just the Cossacks.
          [quotethe first thing after the revolution in the Urals as well as in the Don were proclaimed republics.

          [/ comment-show] [comment-deleted]
          The comment was deleted.
          [/ comment-deleted]
  1. Sour
    Sour April 5 2014 17: 57
    -1
    I could not add, the browser is buggy.
    In 1918, "republics" were proclaimed in Samara, Ufa, Arkhangelsk, Omsk, Vladivostok, not counting the national outskirts.
  2. Yaik Cossack
    Yaik Cossack April 5 2014 22: 38
    0
    We rummaged for a long time to write nasty things. As I understand it, you read the writings of Kolontaev, a history teacher. If you know the story well, then read the works of eyewitnesses. Composition of General-Lieutenant M.I. Bogdanovich. The history of the Eastern (Crimean) war through the eyes of an official historiographer.
    "The artillery opened frequent and cross-fire. However, the movement of the British was so fast that our buckshot was carried over their heads, and they swooped down on the Don battery. The front and charging boxes of the latter, as well as the light horse No. 12 battery, quickly began to withdraw back, why the Ural regiment, which was in the 1st line, was extremely constrained and could not acquire the proper swiftness for an attack. Frustrated by the breeders who passed through it, charging boxes and limbers, it took a blow on the spot, was overturned, together with them, the hussars of the Duke of Saxe-Weimar, who were standing in the third line, and in great disarray, all our cavalry began to withdraw to the water canal located in its rear. cavalry, General Liprandi ordered 3 squadrons of the combined Uhlan regiment, standing secretly in the bushes, to attack the enemy in wing. Exhausted by heavy losses from fire and hand-to-hand combat, the English cavalry found it difficult to withstand a new blow, and, seeing the enemy's movement in the flank, General Cardigan decided to retreat. Having closed ranks, the British in exemplary order began to retreat in two lines. However, the 1st line was almost destroyed by an attack on the flank of the lancers. The 2nd managed to break through, but, in general, the Cardigan brigade ceased to exist: out of 700 horsemen who rushed into the attack, no more than 200 returned. "
    So there was no flight of rams, but there were objective circumstances. The merits of those who have ever fought for Russia no one thinks of honor and praise to them. But you had to rummage around to find something like that in dubious interpretation, although it is much easier to find many glorious moments in history. And if you say that the Cossacks were a rudiment, why in the Great Patriotic War began to revive the Cossack cavalry units, which showed themselves brilliantly. In particular, the 6th Guards Cavalry Corps, formed mainly from the Urals and Orenburg Cossacks. By the way, the Germans after the successful use of the cavalry by the red army began urgently to revive the increase in the composition of the cavalry
  • Silvio
    Silvio April 5 2014 17: 06
    0
    Lived long before, it is undeniable. But in their final formation, the Cossacks were bound by obligatory relations with the supreme Russian government and committed to the ideas of imperial statehood. And this connection turned out to be more significant than the factor of national-cultural opposition to the Russian world. Antibolshevitsky-minded Cossacks could have won the Civil War, but did not. They didn’t have ideals in that war, they didn’t have the idea that they had served for hundreds of years and for which they had died before.
  • Atash
    Atash April 5 2014 20: 23
    +1
    Quote: Sour
    And that someone wants to "destroy the Kipchak trace"? This is already paranoia.


    Now this no longer matters, especially after the revolution, the Bolsheviks, of course, no longer bothered with this. But then the destruction of memory had quite compelling, especially at the moment very understandable, motives. The memory of the Horde and the post-Horde strong Kipchak khans was fresh. Even under Ivan the Terrible (how much time has passed since the Battle of Kulikovo!) Davlet Kerey burned Moscow without any problems. Khan Kuchum was not a wimp, either, but this is a very late period. In general, we declare everything at least up to the Volga and right up to the Black Sea the territory always inhabited by the Slavs. And the Kipchaks, if any, were just nomadic savages, all kinds of Polovtsy, Pechenegs, Khazars, Sarmatians, they did not have any statehood, they lived by robbery of Russian principalities. That's how it is now, they say that when Russia built fortresses in the current north-Kazakhstan regions, the Kazakhs did not have a state, therefore the lands were “originally” Russian. Then, too, took this thesis into service. And the Horde were Mongols. There will be no problems with the Mongols.
    Then it turns out only in Moscow the right to everything and everything. Now we see this as either indisputable or unimportant (“paranoia”), and then the threat of claims was real and the work to destroy the Kipchak track did not stop. And this idea is thrown from Europe, the word "yoke" is Polish.
    Therefore, the fact that all these lands were once the Kipchak empire of Desht-i-Kipchak was completely removed from history. How many people know what happened on these lands before the 10th century? No, they think that the Slavs have always lived there. And what did they do for these 10 centuries, how did they live? Well, they lived somehow, in a primitive communal way. And then they humbly called the Varangians: "Come and reign over us. Our land is rich, but there is no order in it." And the Varangians, these warlike Vikings, who fought all they could, had not paid any attention to these "rich" lands before. There was a lack of time. Moreover, how they converted, and "came" and had the full program according to the orders of that time. And with the decline of Byzantium, their business was covered. For many centuries they settled down with the Wends, they had to somehow settle down on this land, to master these riches ourselves.
    I do not urge to draw any legal conclusions from all this. There is a principle of inviolability of real borders, it is better to proceed from it. It’s not Crimea that needs to be taken, but all of Ukraine. Take away politically, not legally, de facto. Just in any case, aren't we all trying to know the historical truth? So let's think about the facts, and then, how will anyone succeed.
  • Silvio
    Silvio April 5 2014 21: 31
    0
    Quote: Atash
    Even under Ivan the Terrible (how much time has passed since the Battle of Kulikovo!) Davlet Kerey burned Moscow without any problems.

    The Crimean Khan was definitely not a weakling, but if we talk about the Kypchak trace of the Don Cossacks, then who tried to erase this trace when? Under I. Grozny, the history of the Cossacks was not exactly written, and the Don people at that time looked more like Gopniks than defenders of the fatherland. And why was this track extinct? From symbiosis with nomadic culture (for all the complexity of their relationship), the history of the Cossacks does not go against the history of the state itself. Present-day Russia is the heir to the political traditions of the Golden Horde, and this stigma will continue to be borne by itself, no matter what.
  • with Yaika
    with Yaika April 5 2014 23: 38
    +1
    Quote: Nagaibak
    Thanks for your kind words.
    Black "The Cossacks are a Russian phenomenon ... Is it Russian because we, the Cossacks, belong to the Russian world?"
    But the Cossacks do not speak Russian?))). In Chinese?))) I understand what you mean. But, I do not share the view that the Cossacks are just a separate people. If the Cossacks were not Russian people, they would speak the Turkic dialect, al bo what other.

    Every time the majority tries to put the Cossack people in the "Procrustean bed" of the language. People - to know he must have his own language. And the point !!!
    Tady explain why there are Austria, Austrians, but there is no Austrian language? Austrians are a phantom of the people ??? But, for the sake of learning a lesson, for example, a well-known Austrian ("The Terminator") is tedious to say that if he speaks German, then he is a German, it is quite possible for his point of view to "get" on the "neck" ...
    Let's take something else: the Swiss live in quiet Switzerland, but there are four official languages. And a Swiss, speaking in Italian, does not consider another Swiss, who speaks French, for example, as a "dyed" Swiss, or as a "geek" from his people ...

    The language of the Cossacks was similar to Russian, a lot was taken from it, maybe it was original (linguists need to understand), but there are also differences. The Ural Cossacks, for example, in conversation, and in general, basically lacked the neuter clan. Everything was either masculine or feminine. The rest is "confusion-understand".
    My grandmother called a man, of course, a man. Well, if this was a comprehensively positive, successful man, who had an order, a correct family way of life, then such a man was called - MAN! No female "-a" endings! Men - that's all !!!
    As far as I know, the Turks also do not have a middle clan. So it turns out that not everything is so simple with languages.
    Language, language ... Language is not a panacea for defining a people !!! Although one of its components.
  • with Yaika
    with Yaika April 6 2014 01: 27
    0
    Quote: Sour
    Curious facts from the history of the Cossacks.
    I suspect that not all supporters of the idea of ​​"the Cossacks as a people" will like it.
    During the Civil War, the villages of Mamaevskaya and Kapitonovskaya of the 3rd department of the Orenburg army were excluded from the army "for Bolshevism" on July 16.07.1918, XNUMX by the decision of the Military Circle.
    At the same time, in the same 1918, the Semirechensky army was replenished with 4 new villages - Ivanovskaya, Zakharyevskaya, Romanovskaya, Stefanovskaya. These are peasant volosts, accepted as part of the Semirechensky army for practically total resistance to Bolshevism.

    It is no secret that the Cossacks often died while in regular units in the royal service. In earlier times, when there were clashes with neighbors, much more died. It was a payment for their existence, for the fact that they are Cossacks.
    Take 1603, Ataman Nechay went to Khiva with a detachment of 500 Yaitsky Cossacks. No one came back. 1620 - Shamai with 300 Cossacks went to the same region. Also no one returned. If we take into account that according to the 2nd census of the Yaitsky Cossacks in 1723, Colonel Zakharov (one hundred years later), there were a little more than 6 thousand Cossacks in the Yaitsa army, then you can understand that most of the male population died in two campaigns. Without the replenishment of men, the fate of those remaining, including women and children, would be unenviable.

    For this reason, outsiders from other cities were accepted, but only those who were suitable for the Cossacks. And only the grandson of the adopted could claim the privileges that the Cossacks had in comparison with others.

    But the one-two acceptance never came through. One of the main criteria was the so-called. "moral and volitional qualities". Razgildyai, drunk, servants could never get approval for assignment to the Cossacks.
    That's why at a critical moment for all Cossacks - during the years of the revolution, when many Cossacks died, they rejected some of the moral-volitional qualities and accepted others to fight against Bolshevism. And it is not yet clear what powers and privileges the attributed were given.
    And the adoption took place in principle so that the "natural" Cossacks could show everything that the Cossack way of life requires, and not that the newly adopted gang began to arrange their own rules with drinking, "rubbish" on the balalaika, massacre and other obscenities in the Cossack settlements.
  • with Yaika
    with Yaika April 6 2014 02: 33
    0
    Quote: Sour
    Yes, I know.
    In the Middle Ages, one could speak of Cossacks (and not everywhere) as an ethnic group. More precisely, about different ethnic groups.
    In the 17-20 centuries, this is certainly an estate.
    In the 30-40s of the 20th century it was a branch of the army.
    Now it is a social movement.
    This is somehow the case. The term "Cossacks" at different times carried different meanings.




    Great Soviet Encyclopedia.
    Ethnic group, related in language and culturally similar community of people. E. G. were, for example, the ancient Slavs, the ancient Germans. Typical E. g. - Celtic peoples who lost linguistic unity, but retained their cultural and ethnographic identity, Paleo-Asian peoples S.-V. USSR, Eskimos of the USSR, Canada, USA and Greenland, Indians of America, Arabs of Asia and Africa. Ethnographic group representing a part of the people should be distinguished from E. g.

    But it’s interesting to trace the idea of ​​a certain transformation from an ethnic group into an estate ... How could this happen?
    In the Status Laws, in Section IV, Chapter I - rural inhabitants (if the emphasis is on this document), then there is no talk of the estate.
    Also interesting is the causal relationship of further transformation from the estate to the military branch? What role did female Cossacks, young Cossacks who had not reached the draft age, take in these types of troops? Is it not an Instruction on the blame for the transfer of Cossacks to the military branch?
    And what about the current "teleportation" of the armies to the Social Movement? And then what will happen? It's interesting to find out the vector of motion ...
  • with Yaika
    with Yaika April 6 2014 03: 55
    0
    Quote: Sour

    Cossacks of Transbaikalia, Cossacks of Terek and Cossacks of the Urals did not speak the same dialect, did not have a common origin.

    The first three self-organized Cossack troops - Don, Grebensk (Tersk) and Yaitsk (Ural) - in the formation of these troops took the Cossacks-Don. In all the rest - the basis was the Cossacks of these troops. For the formation of the Orenburg army, 500 families from the Don and Ural troops were sent according to the Decree (if I am not mistaken in numbers). The consequence - there is a common origin. Similarly, there was the settlement of other troops.

    Quote: Sour

    Only ignorant people can speak of Cossacks as a nation.

    Just do not need arrogance.
    Quote: Sour

    Only ignorant people can speak of Cossacks as a nation.

    And in some ways I agree with that! The Cossacks are not a nation, just like a nation of "Tatarism", "Swiss" or "Ukrainians" !!!
    Quote: Sour

    One can attribute oneself only to a really existing nation, and not to some kind of fool invented at the desk.

    It seems like psychosis is already breaking through?
    But if you please explain, my dear man: there is a nation of gypsies, but ... they never bothered to establish their statehood, but ... the nation is present ... How is this, how is it ??? It’s straightforward to tear the template, or to have your own language is more serious than the state system ?!

    Quote: Sour

    The Cossacks did not have a single territory, a single language, a single religion, or a single origin. Only rights and obligations were united, and even then in the era of the Empire. What kind of nation is this? With such success, the merchants can be called a nation. Identify yourself as you like - what's the point?

    Have you ever wondered: how was the land given to three troops (to the Donets, Combes and Yaitsky Cossacks)? They were not part of Muscovy in 1613. (Interesting girls are dancing! ... winked ) But the Cossacks on these lands already lived! lol
    About languages ​​already touched a little.
    Religion ... Christianity ... the grief reformer Nikon was born only in 1605, until 1667 - the year the reforms began - were still baptized with two fingers ... Everywhere !!!
  • Silvio
    Silvio April 6 2014 08: 18
    0
    Quote: from Yaik
    But the one-two acceptance never came through. One of the main criteria was the so-called. "moral and volitional qualities".

    And so it was probably, as a general rule, well, in very memorable times. For the beginning of the 20th century, a universal record of peasants in the Cossacks was also characteristic, as well as drunkenness in the Cossack environment and signs of moral decline. In general, the way of Cossack land use was archaic for capitalist Russia, the removal of often the best land in the army treasury exacerbated the severity of the land issue. For more developed economic societies, the separation of economic and military components in the development of remote territories is characteristic.
  • with Yaika
    with Yaika April 6 2014 09: 14
    0
    Quote: Silvio

    And so it was probably, as a general rule, well, in very memorable times. For the beginning of the 20th century, a universal record in the Cossacks of peasants was also characteristic ...

    So, about the Cossacks straight in Stanislavl: "I do not believe !!!" Well, they can't live right, they collect all the drunkenness and drunkenness for themselves ...
    And this is a fact:
  • Silvio
    Silvio April 6 2014 09: 19
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    Quote: Atash
    We Kazakhs also have a million Kazakhs abroad, and they have preserved their true Kazakh life, mentality, and religion there. And those who survived here are already something else, I'm afraid, spineless.

    So maybe for the sake of raising the national spirit, so much attention is paid to the topic of the Turkic origin of Genghis Khan and the Turkic roots of the Russian Cossacks? A small in size and settled on a vast territory people probably should somehow resist the cultural and economic expansion of their neighbors. For a long time, one Kazakh historian sharply criticized such a pseudoscientific tendency in the history of KZ in his article. He wrote about the fact that it looks like a desire to adhere to other cultures, to raise their self-esteem regarding the influence on the global historical processes of the past. In fact, the history of the great steppe is also interesting without these troubles about the ethnic origin of the Mongol khans and the national composition of the RI estates.
  • with Yaika
    with Yaika April 6 2014 09: 30
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    In this "tugament" it is written that the decision should be a stanitsa society - and the stanitsa included several settlements, not one: therefore, only "all people", and not a small group of people, decided the question of enrollment in the army.
    Quote: Silvio

    ... as well as drunkenness in the Cossack environment and signs of moral decline.

    Pernicious habits also took place on the territory of the army, but it must be borne in mind that among the Old Believers (and only 2,84% of the Ural army of the Cossacks of the Orthodox faith) lived together. In those days, they were not afraid of the party committee, not of Finland. police, and were afraid of God's punishment. But with a new understanding of the universe, it’s unlikely that you will be able to convince you of this ...

    Quote: Silvio

    In general, the way of Cossack land use was archaic for capitalist Russia, the removal of often the best land in the army treasury exacerbated the severity of the land issue. For more developed economic societies, the separation of economic and military components in the development of remote territories is characteristic.

    In the Ural army, all land belonged to the Military Economic Board. A Cossack is born - get 22 tithes of land. The Cossack died - the land returns to the Board.
  • Silvio
    Silvio April 6 2014 09: 36
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    Quote: from Yaik
    So, about the Cossacks straight in Stanislavl: "I do not believe !!!" Well, they can't live right, they collect all the drunkenness and drunkenness for themselves ...
    And this is a fact:

    This is certainly a fact. There are very convincing written sources about drunkenness in the 3rd department of OKV with a description of the consequences thereof in the form of bodily degradation of the male population. The 3rd department is mainly the New Linear region, when in 1836 if it was necessary to close the border, then state peasants were recorded in Cossacks to be sent to the far steppe for permanent residence (for death, as was thought) and they didn’t particularly look into their teeth.
  • with Yaika
    with Yaika April 6 2014 10: 00
    0
    Quote: Silvio
    ... state peasants were recorded in Cossacks to be sent to the far steppe for permanent residence (for death, as was thought) and they didn’t particularly look into their teeth.

    Here is the difference between the Cossacks by origin and the Cossacks by "postscript" (now - by the issued certificate). The mentality has been developed by generations, not by acquisition!
  • Silvio
    Silvio April 6 2014 10: 12
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    Quote: from Yaik
    In those days, they were not afraid of the party committee, not of Finland. police, and were afraid of God's punishment. But with a new understanding of the universe, it’s unlikely that you will be able to convince you of this ...

    Well, I believe, honest Stanislavsky! I argue only in general categories, and not analyze Old Believer relations in this community. The VHF were not disbanded ascribed Cossacks, there was no need for this, therefore, they preserved their moral character. Well, commendable.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Yaik Cossack
    Yaik Cossack April 6 2014 13: 51
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    The Urals were asked about sharing the same contingent with them as the OKW, the Cossacks were categorically against and said that they would pull all the military duties themselves, because of this they had a two-year longer service life than the Cossacks of other troops, even the percentage of troops mobilized to the total number of troops in World War I was greater than in other troops.
  • with Yaika
    with Yaika April 6 2014 14: 13
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    Know Romanov coddled about the seniority of the troops. Do it!
    Well, well done Orenburgers !!!
  • with Yaika
    with Yaika April 6 2014 14: 17
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    somehow not the first time it turned out
  • Silvio
    Silvio April 6 2014 17: 09
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    Quote: Yaitsky Cossack
    The Urals were asked about sharing the same contingent with them as the OKW, the Cossacks were categorically against and said that they would pull all the military duties themselves, because of this they had a two-year longer service life than the Cossacks of other troops, even the percentage of troops mobilized to the total number of troops in World War I was greater than in other troops.

    Most likely, the story is silent about who and how raised the issue of sharing. In fact, everything is more prosaic, the land in those parts is not very fertile for tillage, and therefore there was no significant influx of migrant peasants. The Urals lived not so much as farming as fishing. The territory of the Southern Urals, on the contrary, was rich in chernozems and was actively populated. You can’t get a lot of Cossacks from central Russia, but please, local peasants into Cossacks. The Urals were small in comparison with the OKW, but more stubborn in opposing the Bolsheviks.
    1. Yaik Cossack
      Yaik Cossack April 7 2014 00: 50
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      Well, why ?! Governor Neplyuev Ivan Ivanovich during the consolidation of the Lower Yaitskaya line
  • EXA-2
    EXA-2 April 11 2014 14: 39
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    That's how special forces began.