Give socialism!

As the discussion showed the first part of the article on socialismI was absolutely right that the idea of ​​building socialism does not have 100% support in Russia. The results of voting on the article: 53% "against" and 47% "for" (30 - 27 votes). True, it is necessary to take into account that part of the minuses, apparently, was caused by the principle “all or nothing”, and some of the respondents implied disagreement with some arguments that are not related to socialism itself. Well, and where, without such an important moment, as “I saw the author, I did not read, I just didn’t minus”? .. All this was reflected in the comments. Therefore, it is unlikely to be a mistake to suppose that the order of 50% of the politically active population of Russia would like to return to socialism in one form or another. The second half of the politically active population, for whatever reason, either rejects socialism or is completely satisfied with capitalism. Therefore, it must be understood that a return to socialism will meet resistance not only from the side of the oligarchs and their henchmen, but also a significant part of the population. That will inevitably lead to tension in society, and, possibly, to a clash of politically active groups of the population. In such a situation, the chances that the government will decide on the socialist modernization of the country are simply insignificant, even if the authorities suddenly wanted it. And all the more it is necessary to think about the coexistence of economic systems.

The first stage is preparatory. At this stage of the creation of a socialist enclave (if you do not like the word reserve), it is necessary to determine the region or several regions in which such modernization can be carried out. As I said, I propose to dwell on the regions of the Far East. With the exception of Yakutia and possibly Chukotka. The reason for the exclusion of Yakutia is clear; the Republic of Sakha (Yakutia) is already a rather autonomous entity in the federation, and unnecessary problems with the division of powers and the sharing of wealth with local elites are not needed. As for Chukotka, there is practically no economically active population and opportunities for the development of economic projects. However, the exclusion of the Chukotka Autonomous Region is completely not necessarily from my point of view, in contrast to Yakutia. Thus, for the creation of the Far Eastern Socialist Republic (DVSR), the following territorial entities of the Far Eastern Federal District remain: Amur Oblast, the Jewish Autonomous Region, Khabarovsk Territory, Sakhalin Oblast, Magadan Oblast, Kamchatka Territory. In principle, it is possible to exclude the Sakhalin region, where large capitalist projects like Sakhalin-1 and Sakhalin-2 are developing. This may meet with additional resistance from the owners. Although, again, this is completely optional.

It is also necessary to conduct a legal training issue. To legalize the status of the region, to hold a referendum among the population of the region, to make changes to the legal acts related to the creation of a new region. However, these are purely mechanical questions. More interesting are the questions that will consolidate the socialist development of the region.

Thus, it is necessary either to adopt a law or to sign a presidential decree on a moratorium on the transfer into private hands of any state, regional and municipal property in the territory of the region. The deadline for the cancellation of the moratorium may well be tied to an internal referendum in the region. Create a statistical compendium of the region in which to reflect the economic indicators of the region to organize planning. The presence of state-owned enterprises and their economic indicators. Since it is they who will become the pioneers of a socialist planned economy. Announce and fix the law financing: the money will be allocated by the federal center according to existing programs. Create a legal basis for the relationship of the region with the divisions of federal companies and natural monopolies on the basis of long-term contracts. Create a legal framework for the fiscal service of the region in the form of a separate division of the Federal Tax Service. And also create a legal framework for the introduction of special tax regimes - the socialist "simplified". In which the interest rate of the single tax will be laid all taxes and fees, including social ones. Most likely, this can be done on the basis of the proclamation of the region as a special economic zone. Some peculiarities of a legal nature will probably require the adoption of a separate Federal Law, such as, for example, in the Yantar FEZ in the Kaliningrad region. Another important component of the preparation is the creation of a uniform wage grid for regulating wages. My opinion is that the ETS should have a 4 grade (unskilled workers, skilled workers, engineers, managers). And each of the four ranks must have 10 sub-categories. Moreover, the 3 subdivision should overlap with the lower discharge. Thus, the 1-3 subdivision of the 2-th category - skilled workers, must overlap with the 8-10 sub-categories of the 1-th category. This is to take into account the prestige of qualifying growth without careerism. Specific figures in the ETS should be determined on the basis of the economic model created on the basis of statistical data on the regional economy, taking into account the need for financing from the budget of the region at least the minimum prescribed pension and social obligations.

2 th stage. Zero five-year plan. Within the framework of the zero five-year plan, a gradual restructuring of the regional economy should take place on a socialist basis. In the first year of the five-year plan, it is necessary to create a bank that will perform the functions of a budgetary bank in the region, a non-state pension fund, and a special division of the Federal Tax Service. Also, the State Planning Committee should be created, which will develop a program for the remaining 4 years on the basis of economic statistics and federal financing laws. In the goal-oriented part of the program, the need to create production facilities and infrastructure should be included, which will be used as a basis for the further development of the region. The main part should be spelled out and economically justified specific infrastructure and production projects. In particular - a list of industries that can provide the financial base of the region. Emphasis must be placed on heavy industry. In the Far Eastern regions there is a significant number of ports and shipyards, some of which require modernization and / or sound management. For example, Amur shipbuilding can be loaded with orders for the creation of tourist ships and ships of the river-sea class. Large shipyards can be loaded by creating ships for shipping companies that are being organized. Do not forget about the military order. These investments will quickly begin to generate income. I want to note that it is not PROFIT, which is the goal of capitalist construction, namely, income. Naturally, the payback period is important, but to a lesser extent than the increase in gross domestic product. Newly created enterprises should be directed to the manufacture of production equipment in order to create a basis for new industrialization.

As an example of infrastructure projects, I can cite the development of BAM, which has been talked about for quite some time, and the creation of a branch to Nikolaevsk-on-Amur. A promising area of ​​investment is the reconstruction of a powerful small aviation. Since large airports are mainly in the hands of private owners, it is necessary to invest in the development of one or more of the state airports - Khurba, Yelizovo or other regional GUP airports as hubs and bases for a regional airline. And also to small airports and the development of MVL aviation on the basis of an economical An-2 aircraft, which can reliably connect the settlements of the region over long distances and at the same time be economically justified.

As a secondary direction, funded on a residual basis, a budget trade network can be created (for example, the Veteran store chain in Khabarovsk and other cities of the Khabarovsk Territory) as an alternative to commercial trade and price stabilization through centralized supply excluding resellers. Such projects usually pay for themselves fairly quickly.

As part of the creation and expansion of enterprises, new jobs will appear, which will solve the problem of unemployment and, possibly, attract specialists from other regions. Also, the development of industry and infrastructure will allow to download technical education in the region by increasing the number of target groups in educational institutions.

Thus, within the framework of the zero five-year plan with the use of funds transferred to the region of a part of federal, regional and municipal enterprises and federal subsidies, it is necessary to create a financial base for the subsequent industrial construction. The main areas of application of funds include: tourism, large-scale machine-building, machine-tool construction, transport, woodworking, sea and river natural resources. I leave the mineral resources of the region outside the interests of the socialist economy, so as not to overlap with the interests of the resource oligarchs indicated in the comments to the last article.

3 th stage. The first five years. As part of the development and implementation of the plans of the first five-year plan, priority should be given to highly profitable high-tech industries. And again the most important point is the income, not the payback period. Given the concentration of funds in the hands of Gosplan, they can be accumulated for high-cost projects, which, however, can bring a good annual profit. This will allow not to slow down the pace of industrialization. The basis for the continuation of industrialization should be old enterprises and enterprises created in the zero five-year period. If necessary, federal investments can be replaced either by loans from the same federal center, or by domestic loans from the population, forcing the population’s cash savings to work. From the point of view of capitalist laws, there is no crime here. You can also indirectly attract funds from commercial banks, which will willingly give loans to the population, given its high solvency guaranteed by the regional authorities. This may allow to attract significant funds, for example, in construction, in the form of a mortgage.

It is necessary to reorganize the commercial sector of the economy in order to link it to the socialist economic model. This will be achieved by the widespread introduction of self-regulatory organizations, which will be organized according to sectoral and territorial criteria. The creation of an SRO system, which has been fully developed at the present time, will allow solving several problems at once - both the conjunction of a socialist economy with private business and the private business itself. So, through regional SROs (which are associations of SROs), work plans developed by the State Planning Board in the form of a state order, which will be distributed among entrepreneurs and organizations in SROs, can be lowered to merchants. It is also possible to regulate the number of commercial organizations that are members of an SRO by issuing credits through SRO systems for the development and / or opening of business in those places and industries where it is necessary and, possibly, transferring organizations to other regions with cost recovery. At the same time, according to the law, SROs have the right to establish their requirements for their members. This will allow, for example, to introduce labor compensation in the ETS in commercial structures. Also, entrepreneurs themselves will be in a better position, since they will be provided with work, financing and support. I will give an example. A possible solution to the problem of the dominance of Chinese consumer goods could be the organization of an SRO in the field of tailoring, which private entrepreneurs will join - simple women housewives who are engaged in tailoring. Through SROs, they can be centralized, through lending, to provide equipment for work.

Also regional SRO can purchase and distribute consumables and organize, if necessary, sales through socialist trade networks. In this way, it will be possible to solve the problem of providing the middle class with good and varied clothing and footwear. At the same time SROs will be self-financing organizations working at the expense of their members.

At the same stage, the transfer of education to planned indicators is carried out in linking the graduation of students in technical universities and colleges with the order of enterprises. To meet the most urgent needs, you can use the opportunities of advanced training and additional training / retraining, which is quite normal at present. However, this will make it possible to completely withdraw from commercial education in technical schools, which may remain in humanitarian institutions.

Also important will be the task of ensuring social justice. Among the priorities is the reduction in the cost of food and basic necessities. To do this, it is necessary to oust wholesale dealers from the market, replacing them with a single wholesale network, possibly two, for food and consumer goods. They will be able to centrally purchase goods. They have private sellers and socialist retailers will be able to purchase them at discounted prices. To oust commercial wholesalers and large retail chains from the market, you can apply dumping schemes due to excess financing. You can also lure employees away from them - both in terms of wages and, for example, in the provision of housing, at least in the beginning, in the form of dormitories. If some networks withstand such competition, then at least they will be forced to reach the same economic performance indicators.

Double load can bear the construction industry. On the one hand, it solves social issues - housing, on the other hand, it can pull free funds of the population and entrepreneurs into the economy. Naturally, we are talking about social housing, and only as an exception, about housing of the elite class at a higher cost, if it is in demand.

Of course, the successful implementation of the projects will make moving to a socialist region attractive for the population of other regions of the Russian Federation. That will give the opportunity to complete the production with a sufficient number of personnel.

After the implementation of the plans of the first five-year plan, which will create the basis for further development, the leadership of the region can start creating enterprises for competition and ousting large commercial enterprises from the market of the region. You can begin to create enterprises for the production of consumer goods as import-substituting enterprises, to start implementation on the basis of the existing scientific potential of scientific programs, and, of course, gradually, to develop social programs. For all that, we must not forget about the development and modernization of existing industry.

Of course, they can point out to me that I have not reflected the issues of the fight against corruption, ideology, the protection of the socialist enclave from capitalist predators. This is the subject of the next article.

PS In the wake of recent events ... I have another candidate for the socialist enclave - the Republic of Crimea. She has everything to start - good money that was transferred for the rental of bases fleet, port infrastructure and shipbuilding, a developed recreational industry, an educated and able-bodied population, which, judging by the situation, will only arrive ...

Comments

[My address]

The basis of socialism is justice. Of course, absolute justice is an unattainable ideal, but it is necessary to strive for it. From each according to his ability, to each according to his work. Naturally, the presence of billionaires, and we are all thieves, is not welcome. Not welcome and the rule of thieves in the form of iPhones lovers .
"Not welcome" is an extremely mild expression.

[225chay]

Quote: My address

The presence in power of a thieves support group in the form of lovers of iPhones is not welcome.

the oligarchic thief will oppose socialism with all its might and finances. socialism is their death!

[gfhjkm]

And under socialism, they have that two ways to escape from the country or to the wall.

[jjj]

Under socialism, billionaire property, as its own, will be managed by the same greedy and unprincipled people. Only under the guise of defenders of the people

[stoker]

For the sake of fairness, it should be noted that those who ruled under socialism left behind a Great Power, whose heritage they cannot completely plunder until now (25 years), and whose children were sitting not in Bentleys and night taverns, but in trenches, tanks and aircraft.

[gfhjkm]

Quote: jjj

Under socialism, billionaire property, as its own, will be managed by the same greedy and unprincipled people. Only under the guise of defenders of the people

And you look at China soon they will become the first economy in the world. And we are still wondering if we need socialism or not. And under such capitalism, we will never be able to catch even Europeans in terms of living standards of Americans. After all, socialism is an example of how you can very quickly catch up with Europe and America in terms of living standards and that is the example of the USSR.

[ele1285]

Quote: gfhjkm

in terms of living standards, we will never be able to catch even Europeans with something like Americans. After all, socialism is an example of how you can very quickly catch up with Europe and America in terms of living standards and the example of the USSR.

In terms of living standards to catch a black man from Harlem or a gypsy from Romania?

[vezunchik]

After all, those who committed the coup in the USSR were both party members and leaders and thieves of the Nar. of good! But the inability to use stolen and eternal fear of responsibility, and this is execution, and encouraged them to take drastic measures.

[vezunchik]

that is why countries with a pro-socialist orientation are being destroyed! Yugoslavia, Libya, Iraq, Syria, Ethiopia - all friends of the USSR, But you can’t stop the story! Remember how feudal society resisted, but the advanced England at that time why did it gain dominance in the world? The construction of capitalism has begun! Why was Napoleon victorious? He was the leader of the bourgeois, therefore, Tayleran passed to him. Why did the Bolsheviks win? After all, the bloody Nicholas was removed by their closest ones, and the Bolsheviks did not have most places in the St. Petersburg Council.
When Stalin arrived in St. Petersburg in the summer of 17 g, his active work led to the fact that after 2 months. the popularity and authority of the Bolsheviks rose sharply. Trotsky at that time only arrived in Russia from the United States and had nothing to do with the Bolsheviks. But the Jewish scent did not misfire, he quickly joined the Bolsheviks and, thanks to his demagogy, became one of the leaders.
For some reason, this period of Stalin's work is hushed up, but he is very instructive. It was from 17 to 19 years that Stalin gained the experience of the organizer and leader of the state level.

[ele1285]

Quote: My address

The basis of socialism is justice. Naturally, the presence of billionaires, and with us they are all thieves, is not welcome. The thieves' support group in the form of iPhone lovers is also not welcome.

And if we take for example the Scandinavian "model" of socialism, where, conditionally, the director of an enterprise cannot receive more than four times as much as a skilled worker. And this is spelled out in the law, which is being implemented. Social guarantees for the entire population of the state, an orderly migration policy, etc. ...
And still, society will not remain without billionaires. There are people who move physics forward, someone is a space fan, and someone is given the talent for making money. It’s making money, not cutting it (Bill Gates).
So it’s possible to build socialism with money bags, there would be political will

[alicante11]

This was discussed in the last article. We do not get "all or nothing". We can remain completely "without anything", i.e. without a country.

[Name]

If the author would have written it easier, ask me: for the belyz, or for the red ones ..., otherwise you will understand the academician. I didn’t graduate from the Academy, but I can feel the direction "withers". Excuse me if you don't like chago scribbled.

[alicante11]

For the Russians :).

[Egoza]

I am for socialism! The only thing is that in recent years in the USSR its essence was SO distorted, and in the last years of "independence" it was SO slandered, that now it is practically useless to explain something to people, especially young people! So it is necessary to introduce socialist principles into action without naming them directly. But when there is a real result, at least in 5 years, then say: "Guys! But we switched to socialism! We gave up capitalism, and how good it turned out!" And then already spin it to the fullest. IMHO.

[radio operator]

Quote: Egoza

I am for socialism! The only thing is that in recent years in the USSR its essence was SO distorted, and in the last years of "independence" it was SO slandered, that now it is practically useless to explain something to people, especially young people!

I liked one statement of a Ukrainian veteran:

[Duelist]

Quote: Egoza

I am for socialism!

I like the comparison of the USSR with a joint stock company (OJSC) and Russia with a limited liability company (LLC). In the "JSC" of the USSR - everything was national and it was summarized in the name of MOTHERLAND, young guys were drafted into the army and went to defend the Motherland! I dare say that nowadays young people do not have such a direct identification of themselves as the defender of the Motherland. I would like to, but no, values ​​have dropped from spiritual to material. Capitalism cannot have a human face - always a rat grin! Socialism was ruined by the partocracy - the decomposition of power from structures, the party was one and all rivalry was reduced to the struggle for a single seat. As GORBATY said: - There are two opinions, mine and wrong. Who could stop this traitor?

[Egor.nic]

- Socialism was ruined by partocracy - the decomposition of power from structures, the party was one and all rivalry was reduced to the struggle for a single chair.

Socialism, as a social system, has outlived itself not only because of rotten partocracies, but also because of the rotten people who deserve what they got.

[vezunchik]

Huge damage done Khrushchev!

[Znayka]

I agree, socialism is now mistakenly associated with poverty, corruption, and so on. Information support is also important here. By the way, the above after all echoes the ideas of BER, which the author does not mention. And it would be necessary, since I touch on this topic.

[alicante11]

What is BER?

[Egor.nic]

To smear paper, not to unload cement bags from wagons ...: loughching:
You can vote at least for, at least against the devil, the essence is different, in your mentality and real perception, as well as adequate responsibility for what is happening to everyone, and not a desire to cash in on property redistribution and chaos. Otherwise, empty and useless slogans - Glory to the Communist Party of the Soviet Union or "glory to the Maidan" have related roots. The seizure of power by some and the exploitation (covert or overt) of others.
To understand war, one must go through the war as a soldier; to understand socialism, one must not be present in it by observing it from the side of the regional party committee or sticking to it, but live in socialism in the hinterland, having experienced all its "charms and dirty tricks."
When evaluating a judgment of something or someone, judge as you would like you to be judged ....

[Kurkin]

I agree. For youth, socialism is now a curse word. This can be introduced and called a special economic zone, an advanced development zone, a free economic zone, etc. At one time, in the early 90s, E.E. Rossel (the governor of the Sverdlovsk region at that time) came to EBN with a proposal to create the Ural Republic from the Sverdlovsk, Chelyabinsk, Kurgan, Tyumen regions and the Khanty-Mansi Autonomous Okrug. The purpose of the creation was the preservation of the industrial potential of the Urals from plundering, its further development. The republic envisioned the introduction of a special tax regime and the preservation of the entire metallurgy, engineering and oil and gas production in the ownership of the Republic. But as everyone knows, the Western sponsors of the EBN reformers team had completely different plans for the national economy. In general, I propose that the author also consider the article as a socialist republic and the Urals Federal District.

[alicante11]

Kurkin

Forgive me, dear, each sandpiper praises its swamp. I am a Far Easterner :). And to be honest, I'm afraid I just can't do it. In order to overgrow this skeleton with meat, you need to turn over a bunch of numbers. It is desirable to simulate some points. This is a very big job. So far I was hoping to practice "catching fleas", maybe they will prompt or correct something. But, unfortunately, except for empty "crap" or "come on, come on", there is no way out :(.

[Kurkin]

alicante11, the idea is good. Only now, as soon as people see the word socialism, they immediately have bad associations born, driven by continuous propaganda in the 90s and 2000s. Putin, meanwhile, is trying to build state capitalism in the country based on the Chinese model. The Chinese model is advanced socialism with a share of capitalism. In general, a fair social model is impossible to build in a country where the Central Bank is not controlled by the state. So even for the implementation of the projects you are talking about, you must at least get out of external control, regain control of the Central Bank, withdraw gold reserves from the Treasury, and abandon the dollar. Further, we can already think about the nationalization of SMEs in the heavy and defense industries.

[Svetlana]

In a single region of a large country, it is impossible to establish socialism. This is unrealistic. It is real only in the whole country, even in the same form as in Belarus. We would have to build at least such a system, like the Old Man, and not in one region, but in the whole of Russia. Then there will be many who want to join us.

[Altona]

There are still questions ... What should be done with pricing so that each enterprise relies on something, without inflating its costs to the detriment of other manufacturers' subcontractors ... This raises the second question, namely, who will be the intersectoral regulator, some analogue of the State Planning Commission? Then the end of the market ... Either leave small things in the face of light industry to private owners and cooperatives on the elements of the market ... Then their income will be uneven and unstable, and in group A it will be stably small or medium, but with a significant social package ... In general, how do we to reorganize Rabkrin? I am silent that a small social formation will not survive among the capitalist environment. Where to train staff? In a capitalist environment for money? Defense spending? Cross subsidizing by whom? Many similar questions are piling up. This is energy, raw materials, and everything else ...

[alicante11]

This begs the second question, namely, who will be the intersectoral regulator, some analog of the State Planning Commission?

That is not an analogue, but the State Planning Commission is clearly spelled out. there can be no socialism planning.

Then the end of market conditions ... Or leave small things in the face of light industry to private traders and cooperatives on the elements of the market ...

Exactly. But not only. Unfortunately, we will be forced to abandon some large capitalist production. For example, there is a private Khabarovsk airport and the airport of Komsomolsk-on-Amur Khurb or Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky elizovvo - both state-owned. The first will remain private, the second two will go under the State Planning Commission. In principle, this is not bad either. There will be socialist-capitalist competition :).

Then their income will be uneven and unstable, and in group A it will be stably small or medium, but with a significant social package ..

These issues are resolved through the SRO mechanism. I prescribed it.

Where to train staff?

We in the Far East are full of educational institutions. at what not the last in Russia.

Defense spending?

The part that relies in the form of a tax burden on the federal center. Why your own sun? This is truly separatism.

Cross subsidizing by whom? Many questions like this are piling up

These are questions of specific enterprises and numbers. Hands do not reach this yet. Only principles. I can’t do one work of the State Planning Commission, hell also in my free time :).

[Altona]

Well, I asked organizational and economic questions. They were not invented by me, and not decided by me in due time. Because this is not a one-time task, and maybe even requiring not one, but a group of socialist enclaves within the country with comprehensive management.

[alicante11]

I dare to hopefully answer organizational questions. As for the numbers, then, I repeat, this is an extremely serious and capacious issue. I even doubt if I should try to shoulder it. All the same, there is not enough information, only general statistics.

[zloi_dekabr]

Something like this)))

[Nayhas]

Quote: zloi_dekabr

Something like this)))

Has the author ever seen a map of the USSR? Ignorance is the scourge of Russia ... san of ve ...

[vezunchik]

and a coup d'etat has been completed, for which no one has yet incurred any responsibility!

[Orik]

Any change begins with the PEOPLE who make the change. Where are they from the author? There are NO, no people = no change.

[alicante11]

Excuse me, but where were Stalin's "changed people"? Man is an imperfect creature. And therefore the task of the leader is to make even imperfection work for the country.

[Orik]

Quote: alicante11

Excuse me, but where were Stalin's "changed people"? Man is an imperfect creature. And therefore the task of the leader is to make even imperfection work for the country.

I do not agree with you. Stalin inherited the spiritual, highly moral, not corrupted and hardworking Russian people. Giving him a sufficiently high, non-material goal, the opportunity to develop, reach people, Stalin realized his potential, dreams and aspirations.
At the moment, the situation is fundamentally different, each creative person is worth its weight in gold and while these people are fragmented, not united into a single force that meets the declared goals, it is extremely difficult to achieve results, all changes begin with people.

[alicante11]

Uh-huh, a spiritual, highly moral people who have just trampled on their ideals, destroying churches and escorting the king-father to the other world, for whom he went on the attack 4 years ago. In addition, the people were also illiterate, i.e. in order to use it in industry, it also had to be trained. Moreover, the "people" did not want to study, preferring to drink better and blow up his wife and children. Well, I will not say anything about the various fifth columns from Trotskyists to monarchists, because we have plenty of them too.
The fact of the matter is that Stalin gave them the goal of building a universal, just society. And people worked for that purpose like damned. Even if they didn’t understand what it was, thinking that under communism there would be a tavern on every corner in which they would pour for free, and the wives would be public, I don’t want to. Just while working on industrialization, the people at the same time already formed, and then even yesterday the dark peasants began to understand what social justice is and what it is eaten with. And by the Second World War they already understood so well that they stood up as a wall, almost as one, and did not break even in terrible defeats, in contrast to the God-bearer people of the Russian Empire.

At the moment, the situation is fundamentally different, each creative person is worth its weight in gold and while these people are fragmented, not united into a single force that meets the declared goals, it is extremely difficult to achieve results, all changes begin with people.

Now it’s not too late! There is still a reserve by education - according to him, native, Soviet, not egehnom. A cloud man still remembers how it really was under socialism. Plus, many people are just tired of capitalism. Tired of trembling every day, thinking whether tomorrow will be work and a piece of bread. And whether they and the children will be thrown out of the apartment bought in a mortgage. Will prices soar tomorrow so that there is enough salary for one bus ride. So while all the prerequisites for building socialism are. There is no desire only among those in power.

[Kazakh]

Thus, to create the Far Eastern Socialist Republic (Far Eastern Socialist Republic)

I did not read further the partition of the country under any pretexts, I consider it a CRIME, no matter how good they are. "Crimea was also given under the pretext of greater integration with Ukraine than with Russia

[andrewvlg]

Quote: Kazakh

I did not read further the partition of the country under any pretexts, I consider it a CRIME, no matter how good they are. "Crimea was also given under the pretext of greater integration with Ukraine than with Russia

I completely agree! Are you completely blind, a little Ukraine? Do you want to cut the rest of Russia into republics? And then the Far Eastern republic will go to war against "her". All "Ukrainian revolutionaries" had the same principle - divide and rule!

[jjj]

Now, when the people began to unite, they will try to throw all sorts of ideas in order to sow confusion. Including through articles of this kind. The State Department is not asleep, and it still has many agents of influence

[alicante11]

there is no section there. So read calmly further.

[Kurkin]

Well, they didn’t read in vain, the article does not say a word about the division of the Russian Federation, and the education proposed by the author in the form of a republic should exist inside the Russian Federation, just as for example there is now a republic of Tatarstan.

[Signaller]

Yeahhhhh. So right away ??? Nothing will come of it, definitely. You can speak sweetly, but it won’t become any sweeter in your mouth .. Nationalization of the means of production will lead only to the collapse of everything that now works and makes a profit. It may not bring, but it works. Even one problem, like the monopoly on alcohol, with our fighters for dealcalization, will lead to such problems that it will not seem weak. So is the production of gas-oil. Especially now, when we have already come to that. that for all the amenities, electricity, gas, gasoline, utilities almost 100% of the money is paid. Sliding down to subsidies again ??? Type of sausage 2.20 r. When the state paid most of it, and it was not enough for everyone. And now??? Pays nothing and enough for everyone. Well, maybe someone does not eat to the belly, but enough for everyone. Now is not a question of production. and in the absence of money for these products. You just need to work more and study more to get more. Otherwise, the whole thing washed away your studies. QUALIFICATIONS INCLUDED FOR ANYTHING. WE HAVE ALREADY PASSED THIS.

[woron333444]

the grocery stores were empty, but the refrigerators were full. I do not mean Gorbachev’s time. Have not thought about retirement, it’s suitable and you’ll calmly receive it. And now, even youth can’t drag on an existing enterprise. Everyone wants to be lawyers and economists. These are our children and there is no one to blame. What they raised, they got it. In order to build socialism, at least such as in Belarus, it is necessary to break the country in such a way that it will not seem enough. And do people agree to this? Brains are already hard to swap, impossible

[jjj]

Quote: woron333444

the grocery stores were empty, but the refrigerators were full

They got it. So the party-guild-trade mafia

[vezunchik]

From which Tymoshenko emerged ...

[alicante11]

You just need to work more and study more to get more. Otherwise, the whole thing washed away your studies. QUALIFICATIONS INCLUDED FOR ANYTHING. WE HAVE ALREADY PASSED THIS.

That's exactly what "passed". In the 90s. When suddenly it turned out that there were many "unable to work". Although before that they were quite capable of themselves and even were the foremost workers in production. But they could not enter the new reality, where not labor is valued, but the ability to sell it.

[Thompson]

Bastards commies!

Posted

bilet-10-ussrWe didn’t ask them, and they did everything for us, and sanatoriums and hospitals, kindergartens, education is the best in the world. Imagine being forced to study for free and get free medical care!

Bastards! Sent on a paid vacation! And an 8-hour working day, this is atrocity! A decent life with a pension for which you can pamper your grandchildren! Yes, what they thought up, they are scum, they were going to reduce the working day to 5..6 hours, and the retirement age to 45..50 years! Fiends !!! Well, that did not have time!

And how to persuade them to take preferential and free trips to the trade union committee !. And also these parasites forced us to go in for sports, tormented with hiking trips and the TRP! Hockey boxes were built in the yards and the youth had no choice but to play hockey in the evenings!

Communists mocked people! The apartments were given free of charge, BUT with the wallpaper in a completely WET color! Or had to glue yourself! Everything was directed against people! It’s the case now ... Kaif! Wallpaper does not need to be glued!

And what arrogant little crooks commies! I remember on a student ID flew to Murmansk with a transfer for just 10 rubles!

And after all, they cunningly conducted their subversive activities: you are leaving without a passport to the other end of the country, and at least one police officer got to the bottom, so no one even asked for a passport! And for some reason there were no terrorists! Perhaps they were not interested in arranging sabotage in such freedom.

That’s because the bastards commies did what: you come to any city and here, at least where you want to work, you won’t be hungry, and even scoundrels from the enterprise (!) Gave housing for free, and we come for food coupons in the canteen, no way the imperialists’s machinations ???

I do not understand these commies! In a word, just scum!

(author unknown)

[Danilka]

stop remembering the CCCP it is no longer there like that system. The current commies are ordinary balabol. One name. God save us from returning to that socialism as in the USSR. - not those times. Do you think the current countries with a socialist bias are flourishing? Cuba, Venezuela - life is poor but stable. Sweden, Norway, a high standard of living, but recently high taxes and a lot of all kinds of freeloaders who don’t do nifig are not big countries. And what should Russia do? IMHO, you need to do it based on the principles of social justice, have skills, do business, don’t know how, we’ll teach, we need help, help. But there is no need for people who think that why learn to develop if there is an allowance. But I’m sure that there are a lot of such people around the country. find a balance between socialism and capitalism. None of the other in its pure form is needed.

[the polar]

Quote: Danilka

In short, it is necessary to find a balance between socialism and capitalism. None of this is necessary in its pure form.

Learn political literacy and then it will become clear to you that there can be no "balance" between the robber and the robbed.

Well, except that the "balance" in this version: the "robber" robbed, and the "robbed" sold him a club on the forehead.

[Danilka]

But China, although it is not remotely suitable?

[alicante11]

Do you know that in China there is no pension system, for example? And with what fright do the Chinese go to work for us if they have everything so cool and cool?

[Danilka]

I didn’t get them 1,5 mldr at all, and 145 million of us is quite optimal for starting the implementation of the project of social justice

[alicante11]

I mean, there is no social justice there. As Efremov called "ant pseudo-socialism."

[Border k]

Forgot about the pioneer camps to mention how kids were torn from their mothers to rest, and even with three meals a day - fiends

[vovan50]

I often went to pioneer camps when I was in school. I really liked it! And I was very worried if at some year they did not send me to the camp. There were games, a river, sporting events (I loved playing football), a lightning, a bonfire. Once Cubans came to us. Then Cuba was a legend. (Cuba, my love, Dawn Island is free.) Another time there were border guards, showing melee techniques. Friends, songs and in general it was great !!!

[saag]

The author, well, you need to get hung up on some particular region, you need to create such a virtual socialist republic, i.e. certain regions of the country are linked by ideological and economic cooperative ties, you can go further and connect an entire country - Belarus - to this movement. In a word, a movement open to entry, a socialist stratum on top of existing capitalism, it can also be single-industry towns that, on the one hand, want to close, and on the other, they can organize import-substituting production, in general, import-substituting industrialization can serve as the engine of the socialist stratum, a return to the Soviet education system , maybe with some corrections in the form of a pilot project, the main thing is that the certificate of maturity is recognized by the state. "Workers of all countries, unite!" :-)

[vladsolo56]

I’m sure that not 50% but exactly 70, or even 80% of the population of Russia would like to return the USSR, but certainly not the one that was. Of course, without the Communist Party, even better without parties. Of course, without those republics that do not want to work and hate Russians. The main thing that most people want is guarantees. First of all, guarantees of work and a normal salary, guarantees of obtaining public housing, free education and medicine. If we proceed from such principles of the definition of socialism, then, as I think, 80% of the population will be in favor.

[Sma11]

Perhaps we are slowly moving towards this. All signs that Putin has started something inside the country.

[Danilka]

I would like to say that I saw a lot of people on the site who talk about returning the borders of the USSR or DJI RI, and some even think about the borders in PolEurasia. We cannot restore order in the country, but they vish as they waved. You’re right why do we need those republics that were subsidized

[Bakht]

Quote: vladsolo56

You are right that many want to return to socialism. That is, to work as under socialism, to have all the benefits of a welfare state, and to receive as in Europe. This is a very understandable and reasonable desire. But the ideologist of "people's capitalism" Olof Palme (whom our liberals of the 80s and 90s loved to cite as an example) had something completely different in mind. The main advantage of socialism was stability. W. Palme wrote that “most people do not want to be millionaires. They want stability and confidence in the future. Take away this confidence from people and illnesses, stress, discontent will begin. A normal salary, free housing, medicine and education can only be provided by a strong state . With a strong vertical of power. That is, if we want to have all this, then we must put up with a strong vertical of power that will suppress some other aspects of our life. That is, it is necessary to restore the article for parasitism. Put private activity under the control of the state. Labor must to become a norm of life.Not sitting out your pants in the office, but working at the open-hearth furnace How many people agree to work 8 hours in a hot shop? And get a decent, but minimal life support?

PS Not everyone knows that Sweden has grown fabulously rich in two World Wars. Trading with both parties. It was with this money that "people's capitalism" was built. Which is now bursting at the seams in the same Sweden. In the USSR (for objective reasons) funds for building socialism had to be withdrawn from agriculture. Stalin was not a monster. He just had no other choice.

[Signaller]

And who is stopping to buy housing ????. Laziness and apathy. No more. With normal salary, NOTHING, I personally only bought apartments in the USSR. And neither of which - I'm not worried.

[vladsolo56]

Quote: Signaller

And who is stopping to buy housing ????. Laziness and apathy. No more. With normal salary, NOTHING, I personally only bought apartments in the USSR. And neither of which - I'm not worried.

You know, I’m already tired of hammering basic truths into everyone. How to make money? Where? to earn, you need to get a lot, but as everyone knows, the salaries of teachers, kindergarten teachers, doctors and other public sector employees are not at all where you can earn an apartment. In your opinion all the above professions are parasites and unnecessary, how many professions, even now where can I get an apartment, and even then on credit? So in a social state there must be justice. For example, it infuriates me that some singers or jesters and hypocrites today earn hundreds of times more than miners and metallurgists. Top managers simply brazenly live bathing in luxury, despite the fact that they do nothing for the prosperity of the country. So your comment is only a bravado of your own well-being, and it is not at all necessary what you deserve.

[Signaller]

And who is stopping to buy housing ????. Laziness and apathy. No more. With normal salary, NOTHING, I personally only bought apartments in the USSR. And neither of which - I'm not worried.

[parusnik]

Alik Kantor, you wrote well ... but you are a dreamer ... In order to build socialism you have to start with brains, and only then ..

[alicante11]

Excuse me, but where were Stalin's "changed people"? Man is an imperfect creature. And therefore the task of the leader is to make even imperfection work for the country.

[Rupor]

Building socialism in a single country or even territory is practically impossible. At least in the form suggested by the author! For private ownership of the means of production (the control center of which is located abroad) will perceive this as a direct threat to its existence and will quickly mobilize all its considerable resources for counteraction, explicit and hidden to all the characters who initiate such a project, up to physical destruction. This time. The construction of socialism sets as its goal a comfortable and dignified life for the majority, which will inevitably entail a decrease in the level of comfort, influence, and ambitions of a wealthy minority. At the same time, the minority will take the side of the "capitalists", either explicitly or covertly. As history has shown, the only way to eradicate opposition to socialism from within is repression. Otherwise, there will always be those who find it "cramped", "underestimated", deceived by the enemy's propaganda and others who want to live like in a "capitalist paradise". I think at the moment it is necessary to move to socialism smoothly and in stages, introducing the best that has been accumulated in the USSR and it is imperative to develop new forms of socialism, flexible and competitive. On the verge of a new technological order, the transition from large-scale industrial production to high-altitude instant production "to order". This will bring about significant changes in labor relations and may mark the end of the monopoly of large industrial capital on the means of production. Like air, new ideas are needed in order not to "waste" this chance. By the way, read about Swiss communism, in my opinion it is very interesting!

[alicante11]

The fact of the matter is that I propose not to touch the "property that has already been privatized" (we are not in the 37th year, no matter how sorry it is). And take the state property that still remains on its basis and those transfers that are already relied on by the government to the Far East region, and create new enterprises.

[Danilka]

But it seems to me that you just need to raise income tax over 10 million rubles per month to 20 percent, that is. make a floating tax in the USA. Right, don’t touch it, but right now we’ll start raking it again 20 years later ... They’re busy and pay taxes

[alicante11]

Guess three times to whom the oligarchs and big business will transfer this tax? And how much will prices rise?

[Bakht]

I hope the author is joking. Creation of socialism in a "separate hut"? Socialism and capitalism have completely different approaches to the problems of employment, finance, property. And there are many more differences. I would immediately write that the author is for the collapse of the country. "Transport theorem" at least read the author? Suppose the railway to my hut is paid, then free, and again to pay abroad? Will the salary level be different too? Or how will pensions in two neighboring cities differ? And what about the prices of goods? Why did socialism have an "iron curtain"? Yes, because the cost of raw materials in the USSR and beyond the hill was incomparably different. Penicillin cost 6 kopecks in a pharmacy, and 20 dollars abroad. Yes, in this "separate region" there will be no raw materials, no medicines, no meat at 2 rubles per kilogram. All will be taken out and sold. How we sold all the raw materials from Soviet factories in the late 80s.

Utopia.

[alicante11]

No, I'm not joking. Rail issues are resolved, as I wrote at the regional level with natural monopolies and federal private campaigns. Those. payment for the work of the railway goes under long-term contracts. And paid by transfers, say, once a quarter. At the same time, funds from the population for the use of railway services are collected centrally and can be used, if necessary, as short-term loans for state enterprises.

Socialism and capitalism have a completely different approach to the problems of employment, finance, and property.

As you can see, I took all these points into account. As for the intersection in matters of employment, how will this prevent the creation of a socialist enclave?

And the salary level will also be different? Or how will pensions in two neighboring cities differ? And the prices of goods?

What do you think that they are the same now? You are a naive person :).

[Bakht]

Quote: alicante11

No, I'm not joking.

Just do not joke, then this is a direct path to the collapse of the country.

I can tell you a country where there is socialism. Truncated, of course. This is Turkmenistan. There is a small guaranteed salary. There are kindergartens and research institutes. My 100 dollars - there is a lot of money. I do not know from the media. Communicated with people from this country. Turkmenbashi set himself a monument of gold? Yes, even let him put 100. The child goes to kindergarten. My wife works at a research institute. Veterans free all utilities.

Costs? The country behind the Iron Curtain. It is necessary to open the click and everything will collapse immediately. But I have not seen people who set Turkmenistan as an example. The second example is Libya. As soon as Gaddafi opened the curtain, the country collapsed.

You will not be able to establish production relations with subcontractors. The entire stock of enterprises will go away. S. Kara-Murza wrote about this in his fundamental work "Soviet Civilization". A very fascinating two-volume book.

A simple example. How did Khrushchev plant a bomb under Soviet production? Who knows about such a concept as "zero economic profit" in enterprises? This is what Khrushchev canceled. And then Gorbachev finished off the ITD (individual labor activity) law. To build socialism, Stalin had to kill the NEP. That is, a small private trader. There is no other way.

[alicante11]

Just do not joke, then this is a direct path to the collapse of the country.

Please motivate your opinion. Or is it just IMHO?

The second example is Libya. As soon as Gaddafi opened the curtain, the country collapsed.

I can not say anything about Turkmenistan. Well, Libya’s example is completely off topic. Gaddafi did not open anything and never closed his country. The country collapsed under the bombing of NATO.

You will not be able to establish production relations with subcontractors. The entire stock of enterprises will go away. S. Kara-Murza wrote about this in his fundamental work "Soviet Civilization". A very fascinating two-volume book.

What is in the way? If now the management of the enterprise is looking for allies, then in the planned economy this will be done by the State Planning Commission. And it is not a fact that a private enterprise or a natural monopoly will not become a subcontractor if there are no other options.

A simple example. How did Khrushchev plant a bomb under Soviet production? Who knows about such a concept as "zero economic profit" in enterprises? This is what Khrushchev canceled.

Actually, under Stalin there were private artels and private traders worked.

[Bakht]

Quote: alicante11

This is a long discussion and a big topic. The dotted line can indicate what is on the surface.

Will there be an army, police, customs, border guards in a separate socialist republic? What will be the currency? Who will print money and collect taxes? Now there is an accession of Crimea. And this process will drag on for at least a year. In principle, everything is solved. But will there be social laws. republics are identical to the laws of the Russian Federation? Say what will be the punishment for economic crime? Will there be a separate constitution? How will your Gosplan determine the nomenclature of products? Who will finance social programs? If at the expense of own resources, then the entire financial system of your republic will fall out of the financial field of the Russian Federation. This is the collapse of the State. That is not my IMHO. This is objectivity. With good intentions, the road to hell is paved. I fully understand your desire to restore socialism in at least a separate region. But this will lead to the alienation of this region. Should the public ownership of the means of production be fixed in the Constitution? There can be no socialism. And this is another Constitution of another state.

An example of Libya is just the topic. Gaddafi held on for a long time. And even under the sanctions did not bend. As soon as he started playing with the West, cooperating with Sarkozy, and the CIA, his state (incidentally, the Jamahiriya - translated as democracy) collapsed.

About subcontractors. Why was the production of the T-34 10 times cheaper than the Tiger? Why was the cost of Soviet weapons an order of magnitude lower than foreign ones? Because the subcontractors had no right to profit. The profit was determined by the final product. If in a neighboring state (even if it is Russian) the subcontractor does not see a profit, he will not come to you. And by giving a profit to a subcontractor, you will multiply the cost of your goods. This "zero profit" was destroyed by Khrushchev. That's what he earned the aspen stake for, not the corn.

There have always been private traders. But never, neither under Stalin, nor under Brezhnev, the private owner did not determine the policy of the state. And never the shoemaker on the corner could go beyond the law. And they arrived too. There were shop workers and even wrote about underground factories. Purely legally, they were ALWAYS outside the LAW. The collapse of the USSR (that is, socialism) was not least carried out with the money of the "guilds". Allow the private sector in your social republic and they will bury her. This is not IMHO. It happened before. That is why Stalin destroyed the NEP. The man was of great mind.

There are many questions. There are also more than one answer. But this is the path to collapse.

[alicante11]

Will there be an army, police, customs, border guards in a separate socialist republic?

The police, quite possibly, is even the municipal level, not that regional. But everything else - why? We live in one country.

Who will print money and collect taxes?

The central bank of the Russian Federation will print the money, and taxes will be collected by a special unit of the Federal Tax Service of the Russian Federation in this very special socialist economic zone. No taxes will be collected from budget organizations. Their federal part will be paid by the regional budget.

But will there be social laws. republics are identical to the laws of the Russian Federation

It was under modern laws that I tried to adapt the legislation of the SEZ. The only thing that will be the cornerstone is a moratorium on the transfer of state property to private hands.

Say what will be the punishment for economic crime?

This is the question of the third part of the article.

Will there be a separate constitution?

If necessary, then this does not contradict Russian law. All republics in the Russian Federation have constitutions.

How will your Gosplan determine the nomenclature of products?

Exactly the same as the Soviet Gosplan. There is essentially no difference here. The only thing is that the first time, apparently, those sectors that will be left to the private sector will not be taken into account. But at the second stage, as prescribed, after the creation of the SRO, and private business will be put in a planned stall.

Who will finance social programs? If at the expense of own resources, then the entire financial system of your republic will fall out of the financial field of the Russian Federation.

Um, I'm sorry, but I disagree. In Russia, we have three levels of financing social guarantees. Federal, regional and municipal. Apparently, you did not come across social services :). Therefore, at the regional level, social guarantees, for example, of Moscow, were not nearby with the same guarantees of the Khabarovsk municipal district. Even pensions in Moscow and Khabarovsk are different. What my father-in-law felt after moving. Therefore, if additional social guarantees are introduced in the SEZ, this will not violate the law or the integrity of the Russian Federation at all. And it won’t even become a precedent.

Should the public ownership of the means of production be fixed in the Constitution?

What for? We have several types of property. Among which there are several types of state. Therefore, the only need is a moratorium on its transfer to private. And that’s all.

[alicante11]

An example of Libya is just the topic. Gaddafi held on for a long time. And even under the sanctions did not bend. As soon as he started playing with the West, cooperating with Sarkozy, and the CIA, his state (incidentally, the Jamahiriya - translated as democracy) collapsed.

I disagree. Gaddafi, the first example of the massacre of the color revolution after Lukashenko. Those. his system survived even these "weapons of mass destruction." But she could not stand direct military intervention. The forces are too unequal.

About subcontractors. Why was the production of the T-34 10 times cheaper than the Tiger? Why was the cost of Soviet weapons an order of magnitude lower than foreign ones? Because the subcontractors had no right to profit. The profit was determined by the final product. If in a neighboring state (even if it is Russian) the subcontractor does not see a profit, he will not come to you. And by giving a profit to a subcontractor, you will multiply the cost of your goods. This "zero profit" was destroyed by Khrushchev. That's what he earned the aspen stake for, not the corn.

Because the T-34 was 10 times simpler than the Tiger :). And it is real. Therefore, the Tigers could click the T-34 like seeds. But there were LOTS of them, and there were few Tigers. And still they were overwhelmed either by the number of thirty-four, or by putting anti-tank guns against them.
Why can't this "profit" be hammered into the cost of the goods? After all, she was hammered into the Soviet cost. The cost of cars and oil production was much less than the price at which they were sold domestically and abroad. It's just that this profit was accumulated in the hands of the state and sent to where it was needed. Those. I don't see the difference.

Private traders have always been. But never under Stalin, nor under Brezhnev, the private trader determined the policy of the state. And never the shoemaker on the corner could go beyond the law. And arrived too. There were workshops and even wrote about clandestine factories. Purely legal, they were ALWAYS outside the LAW

Under Stalin, artels were just completely legal.

[Bakht]

Quote: alicante11

Briefly, your proposals can then be reduced to the creation of a Special Economic Area. This is by no means a separate Republic. She will obey the laws of the Russian Federation and live according to the laws of the Russian Federation. Even those entities that have their own Constitution do not have such financial independence. Why philosophize? There is a subject of the Federation, like the Republic of Crimea. Try to introduce socialist ideas there. There is the Republic of Tatarstan. But they will not be able to live according to other economic laws.

I may not have made a very good comparison of the T-34 with the Tiger. Let's compare the cost of the T-34 with the Czech T-38. The thirty-four was cheaper anyway. A modern F-14 "Tomcat" is worth 38 million in 1998. The cost of the Su-27 is 15 million. For export, 30 million are sold.

I was always amazed at the cost of the components that we received. The cost of a mouse for a computer is $ 280, the cost of a display is one and a half thousand. I am not kidding. More expensive than a computer. Because we received spare parts from related companies.

This is all inherent. The main difference between capitalism and socialism in the function of enterprises. In Kara-Murza, it is clearly shown what this difference is. The Soviet economy was not a market economy. And comparing them is pointless. You correctly noticed a very significant point

Simply, this profit was accumulated in the hands of the state and directed to where it was needed.

This is what determines why you will need to rigidly construct the entire structure. A simple example. The government needs to fight AIDS. And it gives instructions to develop a vaccine against this disease, to send a lot of effort and money to hospitals and treatment. And I have a small workshop. Investing in some incomprehensible treatment for some patients will not bring much profit. But the release of disposable syringes will bring a quick and guaranteed income. Will addiction grow? Sorry, I don’t put a syringe in their hands.

Socialism will come by itself. If you prioritize correctly. Employment of the population is a priority. Without reference to profit. The Stalinist model ran counter to the ideas of "pure Marxists".

The essence of the Soviet model (1930-1960) can be reduced to the following most important features: nationwide ownership of the means of production, the decisive role of the state in the economy, centralized management, directive planning, a single national economic complex, mobilization character, maximum self-sufficiency (especially during that period the socialist camp has not yet appeared), orientation primarily on natural (physical) indicators (value play an auxiliary role), the limited nature of commodity-money relations, the accelerated development of industry group A (production of means of production) with respect to group of industries B (production commodities), a combination of material and moral incentives for labor, the inadmissibility of unearned income and the concentration of excess material wealth in the hands of individual citizens, ensuring the vital needs of all members of society and a steady increase in living standards, the social nature of appropriation me etc.

I don’t even know what to highlight here. I am particularly interested in physical indicators as opposed to cost indicators.

http://pandoraopen.ru/2014-01-19/o-stalinskom-ekonomicheskom-chude-i-vysshix-cel
yax /

[alicante11]

Briefly, your proposals can then be reduced to the creation of a Special Economic Area. E

Well, I clearly wrote about this right in the article. When he mentioned the precedent of the FEZ "Yantar", for which a special Federal Law was adopted.

Why philosophize? There is a subject of the Federation, like the Republic of Crimea. Try to introduce socialist ideas there.

I get the impression that you didn’t read the article :(. About Crimea it was just said in P. S. It’s just that the article was written much earlier, but, in connection with the events in Ukraine, I did not post it.

I was always amazed at the cost of the components that we received. The cost of a mouse for a computer is $ 280, the cost of a display is one and a half thousand. I am not kidding. More expensive than a computer. Because we received spare parts from related companies.

Well, what jokes, you just did not try to ask how much of this "broth" was deposited in the pockets of top managers of your company :)? Although, in general, if it is a state-owned enterprise, then it is criminally punishable, and if it is a commercial one, then it is administratively punishable.

A simple example. The government needs to fight AIDS.

Everything is very simple. The state issues a state order for the development of a vaccine, or rather, for the production of its components, you win a tender for the production of this component. And ... voila. Your company is busy with work, makes a profit and at the same time works for the state. And all this is completely in accordance with the laws of the market. And now it’s being done. he worked like this for 7 years.

I don’t even know what to highlight here. I am particularly interested in physical indicators as opposed to cost indicators.

What do not you understand? Under socialism, an enterprise should not be profitable. Because there are other industries that, say, bring SUPER PROFIT. And due to which it is possible to finance a loss-making enterprise, if it is very necessary to ensure the physical performance of the economy.
Moreover, mind you, there is also nothing contrary to the market. This is called "dumping" in the marketplace.

[Bakht]

Quote: alicante11

I still remain of the opinion that it is impossible to create an island of socialism within the framework of one state. In the 20s there were communes in the NEP Sea. Without state support, they would not have survived. I read that the commune also existed in England in the 60s. NOT much she flourished. Different management systems in a single economic system will not take root. Or go broke, or, as you yourself wrote, they will be captured.

As for the cost of components, I know everything perfectly. I took overheads personally. The cost of service is very high. There were no left schemes there. What is the cost of software? A licensed OFFICE at a store in the states cost 600 bucks. Truncated 200. I could quite officially download it from the company's website for $ 6. You will be crushed economically. But the question is not even that. You yourself write about legislative support from the state. Which state? Metropolis or your enclave? Sooner or later, this will lead to the exclusion of the enclave from the mother country.

If I, as a private trader, see that the production of disposable syringes is economically more profitable, then I will produce syringes. And the State with its program will wait. And if the State FORCES me to do some work, then I am no longer a private trader. And no private sector is visible.

Dumping is something completely different. Under socialism, housing was distributed free of charge. Schooling was free. From the point of view of capitalism, these are unprofitable enterprises. Almost all of my class went to circles. Dances, sports, photos, etc. These are all unprofitable enterprises. Therefore, now they are not there. This has nothing to do with dumping. This is a concern for youth. So that they do not stand in the gateway and on the panel. But not dumping.

[alicante11]

Different management systems in a single economic system will not take root. Or go broke, or, as you yourself wrote, they will be captured.

You just need to distinguish between them. The border can be drawn state, can be administrative. And you can legislative. And this moratorium on the transfer of property will be precisely this legislative border.

As for the cost of components, I know everything perfectly.

Then I do not understand your example. Because when I bought office equipment for my company, I took it in ordinary stores. And a laptop, sufficient for work, cost $ 600-800, and in bad times I did not hesitate to buy a used laptop for $ 200. For comparison with the $ 280 you gave per mouse. If I didn’t want to pay money for the licensed office, then I bought a disk with openoffice and decided, i.e. the problem of pirated software. If there was no free software in principle, then I would choose a workplace from the AutoCAD for 125 thousand and an inventory for 12 thousand / workplace. Those. I do not understand why a state-owned enterprise can be crushed by costs. Moreover, in the same region, commercial enterprises will have the same costs, so we will still be in the same situation.

You yourself write about legislative support from the state. Which state? Metropolis or your enclave? Sooner or later, this will lead to the exclusion of the enclave from the mother country.

Only the Russian Federation gives us laws. So how can rejection occur?
Understand that the model does not imply a conflict between the market and socialist parts of the country. And the joint coexistence within the framework of one country, within the framework of its legal field, in which the mechanism for protecting property for the socialist system should only be prescribed. Everything else is in the legal field of the Russian Federation.

If I, as a private trader, see that the production of disposable syringes is economically more profitable, then I will produce syringes. And the State with its program will wait. And if the State FORCES me to do some work, then I am no longer a private trader. And no private sector is visible.

For God's sake. Do not you want, there is another. The state, through the relevant SRO, provides loans for re-profiling or setting up enterprises for the manufacture of vaccine components. It establishes state orders and financing, eliminating the need for the merchant to seek sales for their products. As a result, when you (or another entrepreneur) lose the economic race for the consumer with the overproduction of syringes, you will either have to close your business or come to the area of ​​government procurement, where sales are guaranteed. So no coercion, only market mechanisms.

Dumping is something completely different. Under socialism, housing was distributed free of charge.

Dumping is a reduction in price relative to other offers on the market. The price can be reduced by a certain percentage, can be reduced to cost, can be reduced below cost. It depends solely on the financial capabilities of waging an economic war. But if so, then you can reduce the price to zero, if there is an opportunity to cover costs. So we can say that free housing, education, medicine, youth policy is dumping before competitors (panel, gateway), which is covered by income from other areas of economic activity in order to prepare a sufficient amount of skilled labor for the future.

[Bakht]

Quote: alicante11

You may or may not like Pereslegin. But his "transport theorem" exists and, as it seems to me, it is true. I see her in my country. The disintegration of the state begins in this way. First, let's raise the economy in a particular region. Then there will be conversations about who is feeding whom. Then the local elites (political and economic) will begin to move away from the center. And talk about a referendum will begin. Can't you see which way the European countries are going? Verona feeds Italy; Catalonia feeds Spain; Scotland wants to develop its own North Sea deposits. Quebec pays too much.
Your plan is the first step towards disintegrating the country. The Far East gravitates toward the Pacific. Pereslegin in his article is right in that it is necessary to connect the Far East with Russia in an infrastructural way. And you are going to separate it economically.
There is one more thing. If, as you yourself write at the beginning of your article, 50% of the active population do not accept socialism, then why did you decide that there will be a different ratio in your region? And you have 50% of the population will oppose.
I repeat - your plan is Utopia. No one will ever allow to isolate a huge piece of the country from a single economic field. Coexistence in the territory of one country of capitalist and socialist methods of farming is impossible.

[alicante11]

The collapse of the state begins in this way. First, we will raise the economy in a single region. Then talk will begin about who feeds whom.

Totally wrong. By raising the economy in one region, we are helping to boost the economy in other regions. At a minimum, due to an increase in tax deductions for which it is possible to develop economies of other regions. The Russian Empire and the USSR stood on this for 300 years, raising the economies of their suburbs. A showdown with those who feed whom began only in the event of crises. From which no country is insured. As well as not being protected from a showdown, no multinational country feeds anyone, no matter the social system in it.

Your plan is the first step towards disintegrating the country. The Far East gravitates toward the Pacific.

I do not agree, I wrote why above. DV, yes, gravitates towards the APR, so what? He gravitates towards Russia even more. Who is against the development of infrastructure? After all, it was suggested that I develop the BAM as one of the first infrastructure projects. For what? To increase connectivity with Russia. And to increase transit traffic from Europe to the Asia-Pacific region. Also, the development of aviation will allow the Bole to reliably link the Far East with Russia.

There is one more thing. If, as you yourself write at the beginning of your article, 50% of the active population do not accept socialism, then why did you decide that there will be a different ratio in your region? And you have 50% of the population will oppose

Firstly, I do not think that the entire population of the Far East will accept socialism. Those who do not want to accept it can work in the capitalist sector - which will be represented by natural monopolies such as Russian Railways, large private campaigns such as Rosneft, NK-Alliance, and Sakhalin-1,2 projects. They will not go anywhere. Unless, over time, they will gradually be supplanted if they lose competition. But if this happens, then this is success, then the ratio of those who wish and who are opposed to socialism will already change significantly towards the former. However, I don’t think that opponents of socialism will put sticks in the wheels and refuse free education and medical care. And they will be very pleased that they do not have apartments, while their socialist fellow citizens receive them.

I repeat - your plan is Utopia. No one will ever allow to isolate a huge piece of the country from a single economic field.

They ALREADY exist with us. This is the SEZ.

Coexistence in the territory of one country of capitalist and socialist methods of farming is impossible.

This has not yet been proven. I answered all your objections. In principle, in the articles all the answers are already there, if you carefully read and abandon the antagonism of socialism-capitalism.

[Thompson]

Quote: Danilka

stop remembering the CCCP it is no longer there like that system. The current commies are ordinary balabol. One name. God save us from returning to that socialism as in the USSR. - not those times. Do you think the current countries with a socialist bias are flourishing? Cuba, Venezuela - life is poor but stable. Sweden, Norway, a high standard of living, but recently high taxes and a lot of all kinds of freeloaders who don’t do nifig are not big countries. And what should Russia do? IMHO, you need to do it based on the principles of social justice, have skills, do business, don’t know how, we’ll teach, we need help, help. But there is no need for people who think that why learn to develop if there is an allowance. But I’m sure that there are a lot of such people around the country. find a balance between socialism and capitalism. None of the other in its pure form is needed.

Stop basting the USSR. No one makes him an idol or an idol. He, like any other country has its pros and cons, this is undeniable! But for PEOPLE there were more pluses! This is purely my opinion, I do not impose anyone.

[Egoza]

In short! Examine carefully the works of Comrade I.V. Stalin and act according to his plans! And everything will turn out!

[alicante11]

Well, in fact, these are his recipes. Just an attempt to combine the two systems.

[Nayhas]

Alik Kantor, why do you hate people so much? You leave them alone with your stupid socialism!

[alicante11]

I’m also wondering why you hate people so much that hold on to this stupid, and even bloody capitalism :).

[ovgorskiy]

I will not argue about the advantages and disadvantages of socialism, but this opus of the author is more like writing an 8th grader on free themes. The author is so far from economics that all his writings are more like nonsense. He needs to understand for himself the most important idea that any form of government begins with money. I wrote that I need to build factories, train specialists for free, sell cheap goods, give free housing. I would like to ask the author, and where do you get the money for all this, and you just need a huge amount of money for such purposes. In general, the masterpiece, the reserve of socialism should be financed from the federal budget, and the residents of the reserve will benefit from the benefits of this reserve. Complete nonsense, the slogan on the slogan. The author, teach the economy, I'm not talking about political economy.

[alicante11]

He needs to understand for himself the most important idea that any form of government begins with money.

That is what I took as a basis. The same state-owned enterprises that work now earn money. With this money, thanks to their accumulation, and not scattering into pockets and funds, with the addition of central subsidies, new enterprises are being built that are included in the circle of making money. Private business will also work in the same circle, making its tax deductions to the budget. But at the second stage, it will already be included in the planned economic system through SRO mechanisms.

In general, a masterpiece, the reserve of socialism should be funded from the federal budget, and the inhabitants of the reserve will benefit from the benefits of this reserve. Complete nonsense, the slogan on the slogan.

If you have noticed, I was talking about the funds that are already planned to be allocated for the development of the Far East. Those. no one will "feed socialism". At the second stage, it is no longer planned to receive this assistance.

I would like to ask the author, and where do you get the money for all this, and you just need a huge amount of money for such purposes.

Partially already answered your question. I will add that any economy, even socialist, even capitalist, even feudal, makes money. And the only question is how they are distributed and accumulated.

[Per se.]

"As the discussion of the first part of the article on socialism showed, I was absolutely right that the idea of ​​building socialism does not have one hundred percent support in Russia. The results of voting on the article: 53%" against "and 47%" for "(30 - 27 votes) . "

Most likely, not all the disadvantages meant rejection of socialism, someone simply did not like the article itself. I am for socialism, but I do not believe that socialism can exist in a single region, district or city. This is a social, interconnected system, however, judging by the plans for a "socialist enclave", the author remained on his shores. They used to say, “This is inevitable, like the collapse of capitalism!”, I think, capitalism is alive only because as long as the resources of the planet allow the same USA to cultivate consumerism, like a virus, while some can live off others. In biology, the preservation of the species is more important than the preservation of the individual, this is the algorithm of nature. However, under capitalism, the "rich individual" puts his "priceless" skin above the preservation and well-being of the "species", above society. There is no science in capitalism, there is selfish interest, incentive, - money, and there are rules of the game, how to make this money, on the same stock exchanges, all kinds of financial pyramids, new "old money lenders" from Dostoevsky who became international banks, and others dexterities that resemble casinos. That's the whole "science" of capitalism, and arithmetic is the same in Africa, arithmetic. Of course, I am exaggerating, but I say this in order to understand - capitalism will die, and it will die right away, when the "theory of the golden billion" is impossible in principle, a war reset from the hang-ups of this obsolete system, when the "aspen stake" is driven into the black hearts of those ghouls who languish over their billions, imagining themselves as "gods." Russia can live happily, according to conscience and justice, but this does not require socialism in a single farm, but the cult of society, as the primacy of the species over the individual, throughout the country. In Russia, there are all conditions for happiness, we are the country of God, the USA, the country of Satan.

[alicante11]

Who is against. But tell me how to realize this "potential of light" in the size of the country. I don't see such opportunities anytime soon.

[VAZ-2102]

The communist period in the history of our state is the most ambitious in the number of accomplished cases.

[dmb]

Comrade Kantor, as always, tries to "shove in the unpushable." A mix of different economies? Yes, this option is possible, but not geographically. The country has already gone through a similar period - NEP. But it was only a tool for raising the economy of the entire country and in the interests of its majority. The main means of production were in the hands of the state. The variant proposed by Kantor strongly resembles the creation of an "underground workshop of Vietnamese illegal immigrants," which the capitalists will entrust to work in their own interests. And what kind of capitalist will spend money voluntarily on the maintenance of a socialist reserve. The authorities will not compel him to do this either, for, according to Kantor's plan, it remains capitalist.

[alicante11]

The variant proposed by Kantor strongly resembles the creation of an "underground workshop of Vietnamese illegal immigrants," which the capitalists will entrust to work in their own interests.

Well, we have state-owned enterprises and state corporations. So why can't the Far East state corporation or the Crimea state corporation work, roughly speaking? I agree that the questions of the division of capitalism and socialism are the most responsible and important. But not all at once.

His power will not compel him to this either, because according to Kantor’s plan, it remains capitalist.

It is the power. The fact that it is capitalist is bad. But the fact that the authorities understand the need for changes aimed at strengthening the country is all hope.

[cucun]

Gentlemen, what is the name of the economic and political system of China? Well, not socialism / communism.
It will be necessary to think over the term.

[Amur]

If you give socialism, you give redistribution of property, YOU ARE READY to redistribute Comrade CANTOR?

[alicante11]

I am ready and always was ready. Even when it was his job. But, actually, I just propose to do without this redistribution. I think that you would see it if you read the article.

[Amur]

The gradual displacement of the private owner from all areas of activity - is this not a redistribution?
Remember how collectivization took place in the 30s.

You cannot enter the same river twice. The fact that you need to focus on the production of state capital goods is for sure, only it’s very difficult to build a state control system, you need to take an example from Singapore.

[alicante11]

Displacement by purely economic methods. The article is written. And even measures that need to be taken are given. What does collectivization have to do with it?

[Amur]

You are an idealist, but I would like such a path for Russia.

[GRune]

Utopian however ... Although I personally am for socialism!

[vovan50]

But what if we begin the gradual transformation of capitalism into socialism in this way.
I propose a law according to which, for example, 50% of the shares of each enterprise should belong to those who work on it. I came to work - you have a share, quit - it will be received by another person who came to your place, you cannot sell, transfer, give, the share is attached to the workplace. This is not a transition to what was in the USSR, but it will allow the employees of the enterprise to consider themselves owners, along with the main owners. The profit of the enterprise will be distributed among the shareholders and everyone will be interested in increasing this profit. At the same time, the role of the labor collective will rise, each employee will be protected from the arbitrariness of the owner, interested in the results, initiative will be raised. Now we work for the owner who will receive profit, and we receive a salary that depends more on the owner than on the profit made. People become cogs, they work from now on and nobody knows what the owners decide, di is not interesting. Many well-known enterprises practice the corporatization of workers on the initiative of the owners, i.e. there is already an understanding of the role of those who work. Ours do not have this, which means it is necessary to introduce it legally, at least at some enterprises, at least for the experiment and according to the results everywhere. Please comment for, well, you can and against.

[Per se.]

Quote: vovan50

Please comment for, well, you can and against.

It's good when people think about it, they show concern. If you are interested, I will express my opinion. The owner has no interest in sharing shares and profits with the workers, especially if the owner is foreign. The same lobbyists, owners of a network of all kinds of "Magnets", "Pyaterochek", "Megafons" and industrial concerns are in the government, they are unlikely to offend themselves. The class of workers is shrinking, robots are replacing them, the service sector is strengthening, and there, "small shopkeepers" are also not eager to share. Everything has already been divided, here it will not be necessary to change the law, but the social system. Nevertheless, the role of the state should be guiding, if you somehow carry out the nationalization of a part of the industry, perhaps your idea could take place in "capitalism with a human face", at least you can start from this.

[alicante11]

The profit of the enterprise will be distributed among the shareholders and everyone will be interested in increasing this profit.

Everyone except the leadership. Since it is much more profitable for the management to "pocket" the profit without bringing its shareholders. There are means for this, believe me, it has been studied not only in books, but also in experience. In a small business, this is small means, but it is fraught with great punishment, whereas in a large business, this is immediately a condition, which now in our country is an indulgence for any persecution.
Unfortunately, we have already completed corporatization for all. Remember MMM and vouchers?

Many well-known enterprises practice the corporatization of workers on the initiative of the owners, i.e. there is already an understanding of the role of those who work.

This, of course, is a good scheme. But just such a scheme was used during the raider seizure of the Amur Prospectors' Artel. Shares were bought from employees and lower-level management. As a result, Lopatyuk was left with only a blocking packet, because of which he had to emigrate in order not to go to prison.

[w2000]

Socialism is the future! Russia has no other options if it intends to pursue an independent policy, as The capitalist system was created by the West to serve the interests of the West, and is completely controlled by the West. State capitalism is possible only as an intermediate stage on the path to socialism (namely socialism, since communism at the present evolutionary level of human development and scientific and technological progress, unfortunately, is still a utopia).

[Cossacks]

Better than socialism, as a socio-political formation, mankind has not invented anything yet. But the author is apparently impressed by Thomas More and other utopians. The question is actually simpler. Society has always been divided into those who produce and those who live at their expense. At 17 for the first time in history, those who work hard won. In 91, as a result of the coup, merchants and speculators came to power. To date, the lowest paid category is a worker, an engineer, that is, the main producer of the goods, all the rest live at their expense. The difference in the salaries of engineers and managers reaches 100 times or more. Another layer of wholesalers, sellers. But this is not all at the top of the oligarch, who have an urgent need for sports, for example: whatever foreign sport club. In this scenario, socialism is illusory. Sketch from nature.

[alicante11]

Society has always been divided into those who produce and those who live at their expense.

In fact, under socialism, the state lives at the expense of those who work. What prevents our state from directly living at their (our) expense on a part of its territory?

[Egor.nic]

Socialism is a monster generated, nurtured and cherished by a Jewish-Masonic organization and lumpen (liberals in the present) who joined them for profit. In history, two forms of the social system are known that annihilate their own and other peoples - this is social-nationalism (German fascism) and socialism-Bolshevism (USSR). The roots of socialism originated in Europe since the 19th century and were gradually introduced into Russia through the Jewish diaspora, who hated Russia and the ruling class. The hatred of the Jews towards Russia and the tsarist government was explained by their excommunication from the government, government bodies, state financial activities, and the possibility of access to resources.
Nothing like ...
The coups in Russia were financed with the active participation of American and European Jews, and to the maximum extent, and then independently by Kaiser Germany.
Bribery, provocation, murder of state and political figures, terrorist acts (remember! - terrorism is a product of the Bolsheviks, as a way to fight the unwanted, to intimidate the people and struggle for power)
Again, nothing like? .....
On the other hand, you can blame the party leadership for the collapse of the USSR as much as you like, but whether you or your fathers and grandfathers massively plundered "people's property" from the plant and factories in order to feed themselves or enrich themselves, weren't you and your fathers and Did grandfathers steal from collective farm barns and warehouses, because it was impossible to live for workdays? Was it not you and your fathers and grandfathers who worked in the design bureaus and research institutes that introduced stolen Western technologies, because they themselves could not create anything better, and what they did was not suitable not for the Red Army, in any place. Neither you and your fathers and grandfathers were forcing or buying Western shmutka from fortsovskoy. Neither you yourself and your relatives complained that in the west wages are higher, the standard of living is better, and the goods are of better quality?
Based on this, why blame the mirror, if the erysipelas curve.
And again, now the Jewish writers and orators are trying to provoke the collapse of a country that has just begun to rise to its feet.
Remember, no matter what system you will live in - capitalism, socialism, nonsense - the main thing is that your rights are guaranteed and protected and that they don’t come to you at night and take you away from your neighbor’s denunciation that you have an extra goat or a gold ring so that you had an interesting job and decent pay, not an equalization for survival, so that industry and agriculture would develop and not buying and reselling in the markets, so that your children had a bright future that was not dependent on the party communist elite or business magnates, so that there was no fear of The KGB or the FBI so that you can talk not in a whisper in the kitchen, but openly discuss the political situation in the country or abroad, so that you can be sure of your future ....
Be healthy and judge others and deeds just as you would like to be judged ......

[Kurkin]

Social justice existed in Russia during the time of military democracy. It was nothing more than socialism in its structure.

[Bakht]

Quote: Egor.nic

... The origin of the roots of socialism took place in Europe since the 19th century ...

Writing slogans is a lot easier than thinking. If you can roughly name the birth date of socialist ideas, then you will understand all the absurdity of your statements.

[vezunchik]

unbreakable union

[Demon0n]

To begin with, it’s worth understanding the terminology ...
Capitalism. Socialism. The planned economy / market economy.
The next step should be a study of literature in order to clarify the sea of ​​questions and define additional terms.
And then, you can write smart articles ...

[alicante11]

Well, can you express yourself in detail, where you are wrong? In general, socialism, it happens. There is Cuban from North Korean, sometimes Chinese, sometimes Swedish and Swiss, Soviet, Belarusian. And they are all different. And none will fit the "terms". Therefore, you need to look not only at the term, as you personally understand it, but also at what is written. Unfortunately, many commentators look exactly at the terms, because then they have to insert quotations from the text into their comments.

[Demon0n]

Quote: alicante11

Well, can you express yourself in detail, where you are wrong? In general, socialism, it happens. There is Cuban from North Korean, sometimes Chinese, sometimes Swedish and Swiss, Soviet, Belarusian. And they are all different. And none will fit the "terms". Therefore, you need to look not only at the term, as you personally understand it, but also at what is written. Unfortunately, many commentators look exactly at the terms, because then they have to insert quotations from the text into their comments.

The problem is that both articles are based on misconceptions (terms, etc.). Those. all further reasoning is false (according to the laws of logic). This is the case when it is necessary to study the object from its very foundations. Moreover, I ask you to pay attention to the fact that different scientific fields consider the same object based on their subject (i.e., for each science the same term will have a different definition, and usually not one).
It’s worth starting with the fact that capitalism and socialism can be classified as a socio-economic formation (see definitions, classifications, signs, etc. in different sciences), etc.
Separately, there is a type of economy: planned (command) and market.
It is necessary to put things in order in terminology, then much will become clear. Moreover, as a rule, new terminology questions follow from the definition of the term. Those. the process itself will go ... there is an incomprehensible word that cannot be defined unambiguously - to write out and find the most suitable definition (from a logical point of view - narrow the description of the object so that this description completely unambiguously defines the implied object and only this object).
* By object, I mean a set of subject definitions (based on each individual science, or rather its subject). Otherwise, the object cannot be explored ... *

[alicante11]

The problem is that both articles are based on misconceptions (terms, etc.). Those. all further reasoning is false (according to the laws of logic)

What exactly are the misconceptions? What terms are not used correctly?

Moreover, I ask you to pay attention to the fact that different scientific fields consider the same object based on their subject (i.e., for each science the same term will have a different definition, and usually not one).

That's exactly what. And therefore it makes no sense to say that even the wrong use of terms does not carry the correct semantic load. As the saying goes, "see the root" (c).

It’s worth starting with the fact that capitalism and socialism can be classified as a socio-economic formation (see definitions, classifications, signs, etc. in different sciences), etc.

Once again ... socialism can be completely different. I have cited several types of socialism. And each of them has not only its own specifics, but even different economic systems. Therefore, if we consider them from the point of view of "definitions" and "classifications", then none of them will simply be attributed to socialism. The main features that these systems have in common is the presence of forces myjq social orientation of the state. One could call all these states "patronage". Of course, due to different economic and foreign policy conditions, this "patronage" will be completely different for the North Korean and for the Swiss. In my model, the main points are social justice, which is determined by the presence of the ETC, social guarantees that still exist and, of course, motivational social norms, such as social housing, free education / medical care, etc. This allows us to define the model as socialist. And the second point is the planned economy. Which includes not only state-owned enterprises, but also small and medium-sized private businesses. As a prerequisite for the accelerated development of the region's economy, based on the positive experience of the past.

It is necessary to put things in order in terminology, then much will become clear.

I do not agree. If you read not only the terms, then much will become clear :). After all, everything that I explained above is in the articles.

[Demon0n]

Quote: alicante11

Well, can you express yourself in detail, where you are wrong? In general, socialism, it happens. There is Cuban from North Korean, sometimes Chinese, sometimes Swedish and Swiss, Soviet, Belarusian. And they are all different. And none will fit the "terms". Therefore, you need to look not only at the term, as you personally understand it, but also at what is written. Unfortunately, many commentators look exactly at the terms, because then they have to insert quotations from the text into their comments.

A couple more points ...
Language is a clear and structured form of transmission and processing of information. There is an object, a process ... of the real world that needs to be described for future use. If you arbitrarily change the abstract-semantic meaning of the term, then 2 consequences follow from this:
1) The previous object, process, concept that described the term falls out of the language, therefore, can no longer be subjected to any manipulation. Those. it is no longer possible to deliberately and structuredly think about "this", convey this information, etc.
* Mistakes in words and missing commas are nonsense compared to a voluntary ban on thoughts. How many terms need to be redefined in order to forever ban the development of society? *
2) The effect of the "Tower of Babel" appears: i.e. people using the same term cannot perceive and convey the corresponding information.
* This is to the terminology: "none will fit the term". If a concept, object, process is not described by the existing terminology, the scope of terminology is expanded to include a new conceptual area. And nothing else. *

You absolutely rightly noted that existing processes and concepts may (in rare cases) not fall under the existing terminology (in fact, this is usually not the case: there are many terms and classifications in the framework of even one science, but this is not all know). It is for this reason that I mentioned various approaches to terminology, classification ... For example: to a command (planned) and market economy, it is worth adding a mixed one (I don’t know the countries with the first two, and with the third - choose any, you won’t be mistaken) . Example 2: mixed economy and socialism (famous European country ...). Although socialism - is an ideal abstraction in practice - does not occur. ... this is to the materials of the article.

[alicante11]

Language is a clear and structured form of transmission and processing of information.

The definition you give is a programming language. In human speech, it may be that the same word will mean different concepts (for example, "scythe" - for a girl and "scythe" - like a sandbank jutting into the sea, and maybe into a river or a lake). Therefore, not only the term is important, but also the concepts that surround it. If we are talking about the fact that there is a checkpoint of the Ukrainian army on the spit, this does not mean that the checkpoint of the Ukrainian army is on the girl's pigtail, right? Why, then, seeing the definition of "socialism", you demand that the model meet all the indicators of socialism, which are prescribed somewhere by someone. And with which, by the way, many, even gurus and authorities, may disagree.
In general, talking about terms is completely pointless. Do not want to call the model socialist, name the foster-planned, foster-planned-market, do not like it, come up with your own name. I am interested in objections in the essence of the model, specifics, and not abstract reasoning about the correct application of the terms. Since I have the audacity to hope that when building the model, I will be able to reach the powers that be in any way for its implementation.

[alicante11]

To catch up. There are also jargon in human language. For example, to call an Englishman a sucker, then he will understand that he is a local, but if you call a Russian a sucker, then you can get it by tinsel. The same is true if we recall the "gentlemen of fortune", "radish is a bad person", etc.
And as applied specifically to socialism, compare Stalinist and Khrushchev's socialism. And try each of the general secretaries to explain that one of them or both call their model incorrectly.

[Demon0n]

alicante11

You write about homonyms and morphemes, this is a language norm that depends on the context (read the definitions of what it is). Incorrect comparison (find the definition of the word "term"). Everyday jargon is not at all related to "scientific".
I wrote about the structure and "scientific character" of thinking and approaches to the study of an object (mankind has not invented other methods of research! Other forms and methods are delirium and schizophrenia). You yourself began to touch upon the areas of scientific knowledge, while trying to use a household approach to the process of scientific knowledge and synthesis and distorting (distorting) the corresponding areas of scientific knowledge. Do you think this is the right approach? Maybe it's time to translate the form of description and work with a scientific field into Fenya? Those. roughly speaking, you are describing a scientific area not by scientific methods, and even without knowing the corresponding conceptual apparatus.
The term "socialism" (this term refers to the scientific field of knowledge) has corresponding definitions. Moreover, the concept of "socialism" (... from term to concept ...) has signs and structure (this is also a field of scientific knowledge, at the everyday level this knowledge is applicable only in the context of labeling and several others). I am writing "scientific", not implying the classical division into sciences and non-sciences (this is a controversial topic from the field of philosophy), but to simplify the discussion, it will do.
The definition that I gave does not contradict the known linguistic norms. This is a broad definition (read: ... STRUCTURED form - that is, it has a structure in its! System! And!). To unambiguously define one of the "spoken" languages, the description must be further limited.
Do not engage in nonsense: if you want to talk about scientific (here - philosophical and other) categories, please use the appropriate methods and the corresponding conceptual apparatus for this. Otherwise, everything that you discuss can and should be easily and rightly attributed to heromancy and other quack-mystical areas of activity.

[alicante11]

I wrote about the structure and "scientific character" of thinking and approaches to the study of an object (mankind has not invented other methods of research! Other forms and methods are delirium and schizophrenia).

Words of inadequacy often cover up the impossibility or unwillingness to understand the essence of the issue. You’ve already set your minus, perhaps. Specifically, nothing was said in the case, except for pseudoscientific verbiage, I hope that you are satisfied with your work. Continue the fight for clean definitions. Discussing the intricacies of Russian speech was not part of my plans.

You yourself began to touch on the field of scientific knowledge, while trying to use a household approach to the process of scientific knowledge

Questions of "cognition" I do not discuss. I am discussing the practical application of what has long been "known".

Do not engage in nonsense: if you want to talk about scientific (here - philosophical and other) categories

Ah, estimate, I do not want to reason. I want to prepare the basis for practical application.

In general, as they say, "even call it a pot, just don't put it in the oven" (c). There is clearly nothing to tell you about the case.