On the eve of the anniversary of the renowned aircraft designer Sergey Vladimirovich Ilyushin, the General Director - the General Designer of the Aviation Complex named after him Viktor Vladimirovich Livanov told the Military Industrial Courier newspaper about the latest Il-76MD-90А, plans and prospects for the construction of the Il-112 and Il-114, joint work on the Russian-Indian ITA, as well as on how the promising aviation transport aviation complex (PAK TA) will look like.
- Viktor Vladimirovich, it is known that March 17 held a meeting at the base of the Ilyushin Aviation Complex, headed by Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin. Could you tell us more about this?
“This meeting was attended not only by the top officials of the aviation industry, in particular, Mikhail Aslanovich Pogosyan, head of the United Aircraft Corporation, there were also representatives of the United Engine Corporation and the Ministry of Defense. Alas, much of what we discussed at this meeting is a state secret, so I can’t tell you more. We discussed the prospects of light turboprop military transport aircraft IL-112В, passenger IL-114. I reported on the results of our enterprise, prospects. Everything went very constructively and positive results were achieved. On many projects we have moved forward.
We showed Dmitry Olegovich our production base, design bureau, promising projects. Rogozin was very interested to see how the work of young specialists was organized. I want to say, without false modesty, that in Ilyushin AK there are very good conditions for recent university graduates. Dmitry Olegovich was convinced of this.
- In December 2013 of the year during the presentation of the “Aircraft Builder of the Year” award, the creators of the IL-76MD-90А aircraft received the most awards in the most important nominations, in particular, “For the creation of a new design” and “Innovative project of the year”, and you personally received the award in nomination "For a personal contribution to the development of the aviation industry." How is the fate of this unique car now evolving? When will the first production models go into service with the Russian Air Force? Are there any problems with the implementation of the state defense order on this topic?
- There is an opinion that IL-476 is just a digitized “hard worker” IL-76. But it is not. Yes, we have kept the aerodynamics of the IL-76, so as not to make extra purges. But at the same time, the IL-76MD-90А has all new systems, a new wing, avionics, digital flight navigation equipment, a digital fuel system, etc. It was difficult, but we did. Already, five cars are being built in Ulyanovsk. This year, the blood from the nose, as in the LG and contract recorded, the first aircraft surrendered to the military. We plan that the transfer will take place in the third quarter, but perhaps earlier. In general, if possible, then surrender and two sides. Next year, according to the State Armaments Program, we will already deliver two cars. Total to 2016 year, we must pass a minimum of three aircraft. We have no doubt that we will do all this. Moreover, all three cars are already assembled at the Ulyanovsk plant.
- Are there civilian airlines and foreign buyers interested in Il-476?
- There is one question: how can we arrange the sale? The plane is expensive, for cash - the cash does not buy such machines in the world. We'll have to organize leasing. But we are not negotiating with the airlines right now until the 39 of the contracted vehicles is handed over to the Ministry of Defense. Potential buyers are already showing interest in IL-76MD-90А. True, most are waiting for our plane to fly "in the series." But we are sure that as soon as IL-76MD-90А begins to flow en masse for the Russian Defense Ministry, delegations will immediately go in to see and evaluate how the plane flies. And the orders will be. There is already interest from India, Algeria and even China. There is interest from Iran and Libya.
- AK Ilyushin already planning the future development of IL-476? Will there be a “black wing” and other composite materials on it, like on the European military transport A-400M produced by Airbus?
- A year ago, AK Ilyushin received an offer from the United Engine Corporation to see the engine PD-14. We, using the characteristics of the engine, have calculated what tactical and technical characteristics the IL-476 will have. Yes, with PD-14, provided that the JDC can withstand all the characteristics specified in the project, our aircraft will become more economical. The range will increase by one thousand kilometers and reduce fuel consumption. So, as a further development of the IL-76MD-90, we consider the installation of a promising engine PD-14.
While in the construction of IL-476 we use magnesium alloys, although there are problems with corrosion. As the machines move in the series, we may move on to steel structures. In the process of mass production, we estimate what will happen to the weight, let's see how IL-476 will lead in operation, and then we will start changing to steel.
At the same time, the military is categorically against the “black wing” and not only on IL-76MD-90А, but also on ITA and IL-112В. Planes must land on the ground, stones may fly off during take-off, which will damage the wing. How to solve the problem of repairing the “black wing” in the field, because there is no such technology in the field.
Now the “black wing” is on the passenger Boeing-747-8, Boeing-787, Dreamliner and Airbus A-380, but they sit on the concrete! And on the American military transport C-17 the wing is ordinary, from the military it is only on A-400M. The Russian Air Force understands this well. IL-76MD-90A must be repaired in the field. Perhaps, the military will eventually agree on a “black wing”, but only when the technology of its repair will be debugged. And in Russia, the MS-21 aircraft with such a wing will rise into the air only in 2016. On the other hand, in-depth analysis shows that using the “black wing” instead of the usual kind of revolutionary weight loss does not work. For example, Japanese aircraft manufacturers put a classic wing on their perspective transport worker.
- At the MAKS-2013 air show, Lieutenant-General Viktor Bondarev, commander-in-chief of the Russian Air Force, said that the military planned to acquire 40 new Il-478 refueling aircraft in the next three years. How is work going on aircraft refueling now and when will the contract be signed?
- Not only the work on the aircraft itself, but also on the formation of the contract has already been basically completed. It is necessary to make individual touches. Now we already have a number of ideas. There is an offer to sign a contract on the day when we surrender the first serial IL-476 to the military.
- Viktor Vladimirovich, we know that many special machines were created on the basis of the Il-76, in particular, the DRLO A-50 aircraft, the “flying laser” A-60, etc. Will there be special versions of the IL-76МД-90А and base antisubmarine option to replace the IL-38?
- Of course, on the basis of the IL-76MD-90А many special boards will be created. Moreover, such works are now actively carried out, but due to the fact that they all belong to state secrets, I cannot tell you more.
As for the anti-submarine aircraft, it should be well patrolled. For example, IL-38 can patrol for at least 11 hours. But in IL-476, this figure is much worse. To be honest, it is better suited IL-114, for which we advocate. The experience of flying on this machine shows that the IL-114 can patrol for at least 14 hours. And we see no greater alternative. Of course, the Americans made the latest anti-submarine "Poseidon" based on the "Boeing-737-800". But at the same time, they leave in the ranks and the entire fleet of Orion P-3 turboprop, made, as we remember, on the basis of the civilian Elektra aircraft of the Lockheed company. The task of setting hydroacoustic buoys, low-altitude search, etc., no one shot. And the US military is well aware.
Will remain in the ranks of the naval aviation of the Russian Navy and the Il-38, until the end of 2020, we will upgrade all 28 machines according to the Novella project.
- In the contract portfolio of AK Ilyushin there is a unique Russian-Indian military transport aircraft MTA. What stage is this project at?
“We have already done an advance project, which was presented to the Russian-Indian joint venture Multirole Transport Aircraft Limited, which organizes all the work on this project. In the near future, the Ilyushin Aviation Complex should proceed to the next stage - a draft design.
Unfortunately, the Indian side too often changes the project management. I flew to India in February in order to personally transfer the advance project. Now the Indians are refining it. There was a bureaucratic delay, because we pass the documentation for a reason, and through Rosoboronexport, even though it is for a Russian-Indian joint venture. After this, the advance project should analyze the Indian Ministry of Defense. Representatives of the Indian aircraft manufacturing concern HAL has already received him on the spot.
At the same time, the Indian Ministry of Defense, although formally it should not have taken an advance project, asked us to send it for review. So we are waiting for the final conclusion of the Indian military, and I hope that immediately after this a contract will be signed for a draft design and detailed design.
MTA is replacing An-12, so the question often arises as to why MTA is with jet engines, although An-12 is a screw machine. But neither the Indians nor we have an engine of sufficient power to make a screw machine at its base.
- At the beginning of the interview you mentioned that the fate of the IL-112В and IL-114 was discussed at the joint meeting. Can you tell us what decision was made?
- While the final decision on a light military transport IL-112V has not yet been made, although there are significant positive developments.
At the last meeting we discussed the course of work, so to speak, we decided where we are now. The military fully support this car, but so far they are not satisfied with the issues of price and timing. At the meeting I asked them: what are we going to do? They replied: "We will find a compromise."
Dmitry Rogozin instructed the Ministry of Industry and Trade, the KLA and the Ministry of Defense to coordinate all the necessary documents as soon as possible. There is such a concept “calculation and calculation material - RCM”. We handed him over to the Ministry of Defense, but, unfortunately, he did not suit the military. The Defense Ministry is demanding a reduction in price not only for development work, but also for production vehicles. Therefore, at the last 17 March meeting of AK Ilyushin, an instruction was given - to find a compromise solution in two weeks that would suit both us and the Russian Air Force.
To be honest, the Ministry of Defense is more concerned about the price of a serial vehicle than OCD, because he has to buy these planes further throughout the 10 years. But it is with the price of the serial machine there are nuances. Only 30 percent of this amount falls on the assembly plant, and the rest is the subcontractors. Although the cooperation with us is already one hundred percent agreed. Therefore, we are now with the Ministry of Industry and Trade, to whom these plants are subordinate, within two weeks we will recount and look for a reasonable compromise.
We finally decided on the engine for the IL-112В. We will put the TV-7-117CM. As the program progresses, they agreed with the UEC that they will continue to work on this engine. The “dvigatelisty” promised us a little to raise the power, and, of course, reliability. Also, we have already agreed with the Ministry of Defense that two contracts will be simultaneously signed - both for OCD and for the series.
- And how many military plan to buy cars and whether there will be its civilian version?
- Now in the state program of armament up to 2020 of the year (HPV-2020), only 62 of the IL-112В aircraft is laid. Here on these 62 aircraft and will be a contract. Of course, the need of the Ministry of Defense and other power structures is much greater, but only this quantity is indicated in the LG. Therefore, legally, the Ministry of Defense can order only that amount. But it does not frighten us, we consider 62 boards as the first stage.
At the meeting, Dmitry Rogozin also set us the task of making a civilian version of the IL-112. I will say straight away that two variants of civil aviation propellers were considered - a model based on the IL-112 or the resumption of production in Russia of the IL-114. Paradox, but in the Russian Federation there is no own turboprop aircraft.
- You mentioned IL-114. What are the prospects for the resumption of production of this machine in Russia?
- To be honest, at the meeting the opinions were somewhat divided. Some participants were against. But IL-114 has undoubted advantages. The aircraft is certified with two engines - both Russian and Canadian. If relations with Canada are complicated, then we put the Russian engine. Opponents of the aircraft say that IL-114 does not fly on the ground. I want to say this is a misconception. Flies. We just did not have time to conduct its certification for flights from the ground. The research and production enterprise Radar-MMS, which is headed by Georgiy Vladimirovich Antsev, has a flying laboratory based on IL-114. There it has been exploited for almost ten years. Of course, this is an experimental aircraft and does not comply with the requirements of civil aviation, so we allow Radar-MMS to land on the IL-114. And the board sits on the ground and on the snow.
Our main task is to solve the issue of price. We know how much Q-400, ATR-42 and 72 are. Now, according to preliminary calculations, we are somewhere in the middle. Therefore, if we are to produce in Russia, we must make sure that our IL-114 is cheaper than its foreign counterparts.
- How do you assess the demand for IL-114 and the possibility of its production in Russia? Will you attract specialists from the Tashkent aircraft factory?
- Dmitry Rogozin set us the task for two weeks to determine the parameters of the Il-114 market, not only commercial, but also civil, and submit the data to the Military-Industrial Commission.
To be honest, we have not yet considered at which aircraft factory you can resume production of the IL-114. We will discuss this issue separately.
Actually, surprisingly it sounds, but under the IL-114 it is economically advantageous to build a completely new factory. After all, our existing plants bear a heavy burden of overhead, the managerial apparatus, and all this leads to higher prices for the aircraft they produce. And it's not a joke. Let's count. We work on IL-114 for four and a half to five years, we will build a plant in parallel. We are talking five years before the release of the first serial, and during this time we will build two plants! There would be money. Now the construction facilities are so developed that it is not at all difficult to build a turnkey plant.
Of course, we do not rule out joint work with the Tashkent Aviation Plant, although we do have Il-114 drawings, but not digital ones, but paper ones. Tashkent can do, for example, a wing or part of the fuselage. All these design elements can be easily transported by IL-76. So if a positive decision is made on IL-114, then we will go and begin to negotiate.
So far Tashkent produces IL-114 for its airlines, so they have good specialists. At the same time, I do not exclude that Tashkent specialists can transfer us to work.
- Viktor Vladimirovich, recently it became known that the Ilyushin Aviation Complex began work on the modernization of the heavy An-124 military transport aircraft. Could you tell us more about this?
- These works are carried out within the framework of the state order. The Ministry of Defense announced a competition for the first stage, that is, the development of an advance project. AK Ilyushin won it, the work received the name "Kolos". By the end of the year we will hand over the military design project to the military, and if it satisfies the Ministry of Defense, we will sign a contract for the development of design documentation. Speaking roughly, in our project we plan to unify the IL-76MD-90A and An-124, because the fleet of military transport aircraft should be as unified as possible. But the main problem is the engines. We are currently negotiating with the Progress plant on their third series D-18. Surprisingly, despite the fact that the An-124 is the machine of the Ukrainian Antonov, in Russia we found about ten people, including the chief designer of this aircraft, who were hired. According to the tactical and technical requirements set by the military, the upgraded An-124 will not only meet all ICAO requirements, but also have modern navigation equipment, avionics and on-board self-defense systems.
- And for what promising machines does Ilyushin AK work?
- We call it PAK TA - a promising aviation transport aviation complex. Although this is a long-term job, we are already considering what we can offer to the military after the 2030 year. And not only military, but also civil aviation. Now we are considering the "carrier fuselage" scheme, there was another version of the "carrier wing". And we are already thinking about what to offer after the 2030 year. So far, the project is carrying out research work at TsAGI, as well as at the Myasishchev Experimental Machine-Building Plant. Wind tunnel blows were made several years ago. The proposed scheme showed a positive result. TsAGI more closely engaged in this project. The perspective of PAK TA is huge. Now the task within the framework of research work is to determine the geometry, characteristics, look at the engines and only then give a proposal. So our plan looks something like this - first we rent the IL-112B, then the MTA, and closer to the year 2030 we go to PAK TA. It is important that the military will formulate in their TTZ on a promising car. And how they are determined what they want, then we will do everything.
- Viktor Vladimirovich, thank you very much for the informative interview, on behalf of the team of the newspaper “Military Industrial Courier”, let me congratulate you and the entire aviation complex named after S. Ilyushin on your jubilee - the 120 anniversary of your creator, the greatest aircraft designer, three times Hero of Socialist Labor Sergey Vladimirovich Ilyushin.