- Natalia Alekseevna, on the solemn, symbolic day of March 18, as Orthodox people noticed, it was on the day of St. Luke, the Confessor, the Crimean Archbishop, that a great event happened - Crimea and Sevastopol returned to Russia. You were also present then in the St. George Hall of the Kremlin. What feelings did you have in this historical moment?
- For me, at the beginning of 90's speaking at rallies from a truck for the Crimea, for Sevastopol, against the lawless dismemberment of our country, this is not just happiness, it is the crowning of the works of many years. I remembered my associates, who, together with me then, at other times, were not afraid of losing everything, became outcasts, were published only in patriotic journals that they tried to make marginal. I remember our joint work with Mikhail Georgiyevich Astafyev, people's deputy of Russia in 1990-1993, and publicist Ksenia Grigorievna Myalo, with whom we wrote at the beginning of 1995 for the II World Russian Council “Act on the unity of the Russian people”, “Appeal about the Russian Sevastopol ", created the public committee" Russian Sevastopol "...
This is a great event, and his descendants will still appreciate it. We are still in a state of euphoria, but it is already clear that the world has become different. It became different because it ended, it is a thing of the past, when Russia not only conceded, but, it would seem, permanently (or for a very long time) lost the right to historical initiative, to an independent weighty word in history, in world politics. Russia on 18 of March 2014 of the year restored itself as a geopolitical force and an independent historical personality, equal to the entire aggregate West, with the right to its own search for the meaning of its historical being. I believe this is what happened, and that is why we see such a tantrum in the West. Although, from the Munich speech of V. Putin of the 2007 of the year, they felt that Russia had gotten off its knees, but then, probably, we still had no real leverage to fully state this. Although the recognition of South Ossetia and Abkhazia is also an act of great historical and state courage.
President Putin’s message is a brilliant speech by a completely fearless statesman with a sense of history, historical destiny, a nation, and an understanding of the main main streams in history. I think that after those years of humiliation, of permanent losses, this should give us hope and strength for our historical resurrection, however, which I personally never doubted. Even in the nineties, when it seemed that everything was terrible, seriously and for a long time, when this belief could seem to be some kind of quixotic ...
The message was a brilliant analysis of the history of our state in the twentieth century, when the Bolshevik perekroyka occurred, the establishment of administrative, completely arbitrary boundaries. For the first time, through the lips of the President of Russia, not in passing, but the whole world was given a historical and legal assessment of the Russian national catastrophe: the Russian people became the largest divided people in the world. This is a landmark statement, which carries a historical task. I waited for this for a long time. It was said about how modern Ukraine was created.
- I remember the phrase of the president that, finally, our opponents remembered international law, better late than never.
- Yes, yes, they remembered, but it's too late for them. Everything was perfectly said in the course of the Munich speech, honestly and openly, an analysis was given of the fall of the Western world into the abyss of absolute pharisaism and lawlessness, when, in the absence of a counterbalance in the face of the Soviet Union, they became international law, which became “the faculty of unnecessary professions. And of course, there was a brief insight into the immediate history of the Ukrainian crisis, with reliance on the facts it was clearly stated that it was not we who created this crisis.
For more than 20 years, our state, as the President stressed, appreciating the very high good relations with Ukraine, put up with the loss of sovereignty over the Crimea and Sevastopol, proceeding unconditionally only from maintaining Ukraine’s neutral status and not joining the blocs and alliances hostile to Russia. It is the United States that is behind the transformation of this crisis into a tool for a complete breakdown of the entire political concept, in which Ukraine drifted outside and inside, in order to realize on the clean board the desired geopolitical project with Ukraine, which has been drawn completely into NATO. And this plan was destroyed by Russia! But how!
I will repeat the comparison with the collapse of the unbridled ambitions of Hitler's Germany: if Hitler were satisfied with the Munich Agreement, the partition of Czechoslovakia and the Anschluss of Austria, which the West accepted, it could have remained with the unified All Germany potential. But he wanted the border of "great Germany" along the Volga, and the Russian soldier entered Berlin in response. So they lost everything, even the fact that no one disputed before the fascist aggression as the property of Germany.
Sober voices in the West also warned: the goal to draw Ukraine in its post-Soviet borders into a frankly anti-Russian configuration, into NATO, is a direct path to the inevitable disintegration of the Ukrainian state. Therefore, the responsibility lies entirely on them, who did not shun even to rely on the disgusting neo-Nazis, who were made the main instrument for the destruction of Ukrainian statehood.
For us, of course, it is important not only the restoration of our outpost. For us, the Crimea, and especially Sevastopol, is not just a strategic, from the point of view of military configurations point. This is a sacred land, watered with Russian blood. This is a city of Russian glory. Two heroic defenses of Sevastopol make this place a stronghold of our national identity. Having betrayed the historical memory of Sevastopol, the people will no longer be able to stand up in history. But today, after two decades of decline and oblivion, suddenly we again appeared to the world as a historical people, as a nation with common historical experiences and spirit, as a single successively living organism, which prefers honor and national dignity to comfort. And the happiness of such an discovery of oneself overwhelms the soul! In the Kremlin, in the St. George Hall, a sense of the unreal encompassed. Many, including me, had tears in their eyes. I recalled both the Russian Sevastopol 1992 Public Committee and the work of the Supreme Council Commission (later dispersed by Yeltsin) to establish the status of the city of Sevastopol. I remember how this ruling was made. By the way, it remains in force, because when Yeltsin launched the so-called “constitutional reform” and dispersed the Supreme Council, he declared all possible resolutions of the Supreme Council as an 22 of September illegal. Therefore, all decisions to this number remained legal. Therefore, you can come back to this. By the way, how correctly and wisely 18 of March of 2014 were accepted into Russia as a part of Russia are two subjects. Sevastopol should be subordinate to the center itself, and not to regional power, for this is the Black Sea Fleet, this is a strategic element in our defense system.
- It is amazing how now Russian people, even far from politics, have rebelled, cheered.
- People are far from politics, people are very different: rich and poor, educated and simple, grumblers and merry fellows - as I joke, burners and ascetics - all of a sudden they felt like Russians remembering their history. And this, I think, infuriates Western strategists. This unprecedented patriotic upsurge, such identification of oneself with the entire centuries-old history of the state and its future - this is the true national self-consciousness. This is not a lacquering of sins and imperfections, which we still have very many. This feeling of belonging is not only to the present day, but to the entire history of the state, and, above all, to the Fatherland, which is not identical to the state. But today the state and the Fatherland have merged in one rush, and it is worth a lot. How not to lose us this bunch! The people of Crimea gave us a huge lesson. He showed us how to remain, almost for the life of a whole generation, loyal to the Fatherland, when it would seem that it is in decline, and nothing foretells that it will remember you. By their loyalty they have inflated the smoldering light of national feeling in our country too. Feelings are not ethnic, not opposing themselves hostile to someone, namely, the feelings of our indestructible Russian place in history. We were, we are, we will. Righteous feeling
We must remain worthy of faith in us Crimeans. I talked about this and I will speak: it made a huge impression on me. After all, they were well aware of how many sins we have. After all, now all the information is available, they could read and certainly read all these unbridled Russophobic sites, which pour poisonous “rain” hatred on historical Russia, on “rashka” ... and who wrote how “we shoved our stupid snout into the Ukrainian garden”.
- Novodvorskaya came to the recent opposition “peace march” with the badge of the “Trident named after S. Bandera”.
- Such grotesque figures - a remarkable result - the complete marginalization of Russophobia! This is an edifying example of how people who are gifted with intellect, educated, with a bright word and a pen can walk to what degradation in self-poisoning by hatred. All these gifts become absolutely without grace when they are burned from within with hatred.
Therefore, while preserving our right to denounce sins, to a constant national and civil task of the authorities, we must not forget that the state is a great value. We saw how in Ukraine people, spellbound by the illusion of breaking everything to the ground, destroyed the state with their own hands, led it to chaos, loss of sovereignty and all managerial functions. Former idols have become helpless puppets in the hands of external sponsors and outright monsters - Bandera ... Is this not the deplorable fate of the subverters?
- Natalia Alekseevna, at this moment of joy, nevertheless, is there any alarm? You said: will we be worthy? In addition, we see how hostile the world around Russia is.
- You know, the current period is simpler and clearer than the period of post-perestroika euphoria over the “entry” of Russia into the “civilized community”. As you know, by “civilized world” the West means only the United States and the set of its allies. Although, in fact, in the world more than 7 billion population. And we know how much the smug West takes in it.
Did the cold war end? If we remove the flair of demagogy and pseudo-humanistic rhetoric, we will see that for more than 20 years we have been under much greater pressure (ideological, ideological, spiritual, geopolitical and military) than during the Soviet Union. The Cold War - I studied it almost all my life - was a fairly predictable and stable period. Although, of course, it was very unpleasant in its atmosphere: the sides poured mud at each other, declared everything that was in the interests of the rival, hostile to the universal ideals of progress and freedom, democracy, and so on. The Soviet Union withdrew itself, let's say frankly, so criminally and helplessly ... well, let's not come back to this now ... so that the “poor West” would not be frightened by the “totalitarian monster” and convey its democracy in the fastest way - with bombs. And what? After that, all Western postulates: peace, sovereignty, universalization of progress — everything was trampled upon first by the bombings of sovereign Yugoslavia (well, where is international law ?!) and then everywhere: Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, finally the transformation of Syria into the desert, where death , horror and destruction. And all this was covered up by incredible hypocrisy, everything, it turns out, was going on for the sake of democracy ... Whom can it now deceive ?!
Now, just all the masks are reset, and everything is completely naked. And we, in general, no stranger to live like this. We see: as soon as Russia, without pretending to interfere in the affairs of far corners of the globe, unlike the United States, whose warships plow the ocean thousands of miles from their shores, now, as soon as we begin to act independently and take care of what is happening directly on our borders, Russia is immediately declared the enemy of democracy, progress ... We are too large. Even our existence within the borders of the Russian Federation, even if we are amorphous and have not formulated our national interests, no longer allows us to control the world from one point. We interfere, for inevitably we are some kind of alternative, a different historical project.
Now, of course, in propaganda - the emphasis is on the material, on the consumer criteria of “success”, and only the place where they are rich is attractive. Yes, this, of course, is important for people, and we must do a lot to ensure that in our country there is a true social state, a decent life for everyone. The monstrous bundle is not divine! But Crimeans proved that these criteria are not the most important for them. They dreamed of reunion all the time, because for them - where the Fatherland is, it’s good there, with any domestic risks! And they are ready together with the Fatherland and us to share all the hardships and misfortunes. This is the foundation of all human history, otherwise everyone would race to gold mines. But this is not. And the French cried when the German Tanks entered Paris. And the heroes of the Resistance, despite the betrayal of the authorities, despite the fact that quite a few Frenchmen were in the Nazi army, risked their lives for the Fatherland, for the sake of their free, beautiful France ...
We have faced so many temptations in our previous history! And it was so bitter for me to observe that temporary capitulation in front of the Pepsi civilization that swept the mass consciousness in the 90s. But I believed that this was a temporary phantasmagoria, that this fog would dissipate ...
- Have you ever been to Sevastopol in 90?
- Yes, together with Mikhail Astafyev, I attended 1992 in the year just at the time when the Supreme Council of Crimea made a fateful decision about a referendum in the Crimea ... Then there was a lot of pressure from Kiev. And the whole square was surrounded by demonstrators with Russian flags. When the deputies came out, the hands of children stretched to them: “Russia! Russia!". It was impossible to look at it without tears ... Then I traveled twice to the Crimea to the literary and public festival “The Great Russian Word”, when I was already a State Duma deputy, and after. I was in Simferopol and in Sevastopol at conferences organized by the famous Crimean scientist and politician Vladimir Pavlovich Kazarin on the anniversaries of the Yalta Conference, the Crimean War and the defense of Sevastopol (the British were there). In order not to “stir up” relations with Ukraine, in order to avoid a dispute, whose Sevastopol, in Russia, in general, did not even celebrate the anniversary date of the heroic defense of Sevastopol in the Crimean War! But this heroic epic was distinguished by an unprecedented universal, from a sailor to an admiral, an awareness of the universal importance of this defense. And Kornilov's dying words: “So defend Sevastopol!” Have already entered history, and it is impossible to forget them.
It has already been mentioned - in 1992, Ksenia Myalo, Igor Rostislavovich Shafarevich, I, Astafyev and several other people created a public committee "Russian Sevastopol" and held large conferences that gathered here in Moscow, 500 people each. I published in the newspaper "Evening Sevastopol", this newspaper of our Black Sea fleet I was then printed in almost every issue.
In Sevastopol, Commander Admiral I.V. Kasatonov, and naval officers. I remember in the building of the Supreme Council, where I participated as an expert in the work of the Commission on determining the status of the city of Sevastopol, entered a room where they sat, and they were told that this was Narochnitskaya. So they all stood up and gave me the honor. It must be said that in general naval officers are a special caste, the knightly valor and spirit of the officers of the Russian army still lives in them especially. They are kept very noble, they are even gallant, always a pressed form (never saw anyone in crumpled trousers). They are slender, beautiful precisely for their courageous and not glamorous article. They are men, they are heroes. I became very friendly with Igor Vladimirovich Kasatonov, and then he even dedicated a page to me in his book about the fleet.
These were hard, but also unusually inspired years, it seemed that a little more, a little more of us would be, and we would stop, prevent further slipping ... I carefully followed all the negotiations on the Black Sea Fleet. At first there were some successes, a logical coordinate system was first developed, in which the coastal infrastructure was involved, which is very important. The then ambassador, now deceased, outstanding diplomat Yury Vladimirovich Dubinin, did a lot for this. I even consulted with him a couple of times. But the position of the then leadership of Russia was: to give in, not to "stir up", pacify ... The United States put pressure, tried to conduct the "B-Breeze" exercise, remember?
By the way, the women of Sevastopol are very similar to the women of Transnistria. Do you know that when the fateful decree of the Supreme Council (soon shot) of the status of the city of Sevastopol was adopted, the women of Sevastopol sewed St. Andrew’s flags out of sheets one night? They sat all night with these flags. Our women feel the heart when everything collapses. They have some kind of maternal instinct to protect and save life.
For the first time, I wrote about the importance of Crimea and Sevastopol to Russia, which cannot be handed over, in the Maritime Collection, the oldest Russian magazine of the Navy, which has been published since 1848. The other day we met with the captain - the editor, who was breaking through this article, which passed, although with difficulty, with difficulty, for the leadership of the magazine, and accordingly, the curator from the Navy understood that this was a challenge to the official line. I had absolutely no Marxist language there and a lot went beyond the usual framework. But nevertheless, the editor and the magazine showed will, it was printed, and I am very proud of it.
“Today they ask this question: well, they gave us the Crimea, because there is nowhere to go, but what will happen to the rest of Ukraine? ..
- As a person who has been involved in international relations all his life and generally understands something in this, I can share my thoughts on this matter. Let us think about what Lavrov and Kerry talked about for six hours? I think that basically it is not about sanctions: “You give us this, and we give you back” (although, probably, this was also a conversation). I am sure that Lavrov told Kerry that Crimea is a fait accompli that the United States should accept as such. And then what else to talk about six hours? I think they probably threatened us: "For the Crimea, we are in NATO now quickly the rest of Ukraine ...". We do not know what our brilliant diplomat Sergey Lavrov said in response, but I would say: “And you are not afraid that Ukraine will split then and fall off because of your ambitions all of Novorossia with the Odessa region, and even Transnistria will demand respect his will? So you really, please think before you draw your client into NATO, because this is a direct path to the division of Ukraine and the responsibility will again rest with you. ” What is actually said - I do not know, but I guess ...
On the other hand, in the Crimea, after all, there was absolutely unequivocal people’s mood, they were only given a sign that they would be supported, and that’s all. In the rest of the Russian Ukraine, I do not see such a self-organization. They themselves must have their say. Now, if they are dragged into NATO, if the militants of the Right Sector start operating there, then, I think, such consolidation will occur.
Today, Ukraine is on the brink of a split, a situation of complete lack of rights has been created. The Kiev lawless leadership does not control the pro-Russian East, or even the anti-Russian West of Ukraine, which is dominated by neo-Nazis, thugs who are ready to kill and humiliate not only their sympathy for Russia, but even their adherence to law and law.
But let's compare: our enemies, poisoned by bestial zoological hatred of the “Muscovites,” are ready to fight and die for their idea. Are we, Russians, ready to fight for our destiny, for our history, for the Russian land, in the end, for the good, truly Christian existence of the nations? Are we ready? Here, Tatyana Zhdanok (a fighter for the rights of Russians, a member of the European Parliament from Latvia) said wonderful words: “There are situations when tolerance and tolerance cease to be virtues.” Non-resistance to evil is a sin for a Christian. That is my answer to this question. When we realize this, and those around us feel it, we are already conquering this readiness and will alone, as we have won now.