Military Review

Rusichi

36
Rusichi



Now Ukrainians are trying in every possible way to quarrel with the Russians, they are setting some brothers against others. All kinds of historical myths - down to the anecdotal tribes of "ukrov", supposedly giving birth to Ukrainians. Although initially there was only one people, Rusich. Of course, in various areas of Kievan Rus there were dialects of the Russian language. In the Dnieper, the Slavs mixed with the Turkic tribes, in Vladimir-Suzdal Rus with the Finno-Ugric. Nevertheless, they recognized themselves as one people. They had common princely dynasties, a common faith, historical destinies.

But in the XII - XIII century. Russia disintegrated, fought, and was crushed by the hooves of Tatar avalanches. But at the same time, a new state, Lithuania, emerged from scattered tribes. The Western Russian principalities, which were not affected by the Tatar invasion, were put under pressure. Gedimin was particularly active in the beginning of the 14th century. He finally subjugated Belarus, set his sights on Volyn and the Dnieper region. Russian princes, who ruled here, were tributaries of the Horde, the Khan army came to them. But Gedimin in 1324 broke these princes and Tatars on the Irpen river, seized Kiev and assumed the title of "Grand Duke of Lithuania and Russian" (by the way, not Ukrainian - such a term did not exist yet).

The power to resist the Horde was impressive. Other Russian lands reached Lithuania. Smolensk region voluntarily passed under her patronage, Bryansk region submitted. Gedymin and his successor Olgerd were quite loyal to new subjects. In the associated principalities remained the same laws, self-government. The rulers did not burden people with excessive exactions, did not encroach on Orthodoxy. On the contrary, semi-wild forest tribes adopted Russian culture and writing. Russian has become the official language in Lithuania. It would seem that Russia will revive again with its capital in Vilna.

But under the auspices of the Horde, Moscow also rose. Tatar khans considered it as a counterbalance to Lithuania. They didn’t press too hard not to push them towards the enemies, they allowed them to contain significant military formations. And additional benefits provided internal features of Moscow Russia. Under Ivan Kalita, the Metropolitan, St. Peter. Moscow became the spiritual center of the Russian people. But sv. Peter determined the basic guidelines of the future state. He instructed to build the "Kingdom of Truth". Of course, it was an ideal. In fact, it was not always possible to provide the “truth”.

But Kalita aspired to such an ideal, brought a firm order in the principality, supported justice, strictly controlled the economy and collection of taxes, stopped abuses. The successors of Kalita, Simeon Proud, Ivan Krasny, Dmitry Donskoy, guided this same ideal. But truth and justice are in themselves oh how much they meant! Moscow Russia has not yet increased its territories, but it has grown by people; they moved here from other principalities, from Lithuanian possessions.
Nevertheless, the outcome of the rivalry with Lithuania looked unequivocal. Could tiny, modest Moscow to withstand a huge and victorious power. And in the 1360's. Tatars broke out "confusion" - unrest. Olgerd immediately took advantage of this. In 1363, Olgerd defeated the Tatars on the Blue Waters, annexed the region along the Bug and the Dniester, became the owner of the entire Right Bank of the Dnieper. The following campaigns joined the Left Bank. On the side of the Lithuanians went Prince of Tver Mikhail. They tried "at the same time" to conquer Moscow - and all of Russia would be ruled by Olgerd and his relatives.

In 1368, 1369, 1373 huge Lithuanian armies invaded Moscow possessions. They left behind themselves solid ashes in the place of villages, piles of corpses, hijacked endless columns of prisoners, masses of cattle. Twice they approached Moscow itself. But sv. Dmitry Donskoy managed to build a stone Kremlin, the new fortress successfully withstood the siege. The military art of Muscovites also grew, and they managed to stop the third invasion near Kozelsk.

In addition, not only military resources played a role in the confrontation. The fact that the “truth” in the Moscow state was bigger than in the Lithuanian one began to make itself felt. Dissatisfied and offended, they moved to the Moscow service, like Dmitry Bobrok from Volyn, Bryansk boyars Peresvet and Oslyabya. Affected and different attitudes to Orthodoxy. In Moscow, it remained the core of all politics, the Grand Duke was primarily aware of himself as a defender of the faith. And the Lithuanian sovereigns, on the contrary, adapted religious views to political needs.

Their western neighbors, Poland, the Teutonic and Livonian orders, were a stronghold of Catholicism, flooded the country with agents and preachers. In 1377, they managed to persuade the dying Olgerd to adopt the Latin faith. He had 11 sons, 5 Orthodox and 6 pagans. The father left the pet, Jagaila, the heir, and the same Catholic advisers found themselves next to him. They set it up with their pagan brothers to start a war against the Orthodox brothers. But they turned to Moscow. Dmitry Donskoy defended fellow believers, and for the first time the border with Lithuania moved to the west. From the obedience of Jagielle came the Dnieper, Chernihiv, Novgorod-Seversky, Bryansk, a number of small possessions - expressed their willingness to be transferred under the authority of Dmitry.
Furious, Jagiello found a powerful ally with the Catholic and pagan parties. Mom, I. In 1380, he led the army to join up with him in order to crush Moscow with joint forces. But even on the Kulikovo Field, his Lithuanian brothers, Andrei Polotsky and Dmitry Bryansky, fought bravely. Jagiello was late for the battle just one day's transition. I learned about the crushing defeat of Mamai and rushed to flee back home. An inglorious campaign undermined his authority even among pagans. He was overthrown by Uncle Keystut. True, the meanness of Jagiella was not to occupy. He invited his uncle to a feast and stabbed him along with all his entourage. Cousin Vitovt imprisoned in a dungeon. But the Lithuanian, Russian princes were outraged, and to sit on the throne, Yagailo bowed ... to Moscow.

After the victory over Mamaia, the prestige of Dmitry Donskoy rose extremely high. The Lithuanian ruler grabbed his daughter, and at the same time recognized the seniority of his father-in-law over himself, promised to obey him, to convert his subjects to Orthodoxy. In 1382, they signed an agreement, sealed them, Jagiello accepted Orthodox baptism. It remains to marry the young. Huge Lithuania obeyed Donskoy! All Russia was about to unite under its supreme power, and the history of Eastern Europe could have gone differently. But ... at that time, Tokhtamysh, who had flown up, burned Moscow.

The international authority of the power of Dmitry, who soared to the skies, immediately collapsed. And the Catholic advisers told Jagielle that it was not necessary to fulfill the contract. It is better to marry the Queen of Poland Jadwig - he will receive the title of king, the whole state, will receive the support of the West. In 1385, Poland and Lithuania joined together, the king crossed over to Catholicism, and began to baptize his subjects according to the Catholic rite. Orthodox equalized with the pagans. They were forbidden to hold public office, to marry with Catholics. Several nobles were executed, the Poles rushed into Lithuania, and they were placed in all key posts.

At this point, my relatives, cousins, rebelled in civil war. And Vitovt escaped from prison to the Germans, managed to pass off his daughter for the Russian Grand Prince Vasily I and declared himself a defender of Orthodoxy. Although honesty and he did not differ. At the same time, he conspired with the Teutonic Order, adopted Catholicism. He began raids on Poland with the knights, Jagiello howled and ... offered him an alliance. If he agrees to submit to the king, then let him take Lithuania. The proposal was made not without a second thought - to take Lithuania meant to suppress numerous rebellious relatives.
But Vitovt was not embarrassed, concluded an alliance with the murderer of his father. As an ally, he chose the strongest of the feudal princes, Skirgaila, promised three boxes and with it crushed the rest of the relatives. With them, Vitovt did not stand on ceremony. His cousin Vignuta poisoned, Korigayle cut off his head, ordered his uncle Narimant to hang on a tree and shoot with bows. And he grabbed for himself. Skirhaila paid off his “best friend” with Kiev, but he also sent poisoners to him, and assigned him Kiev. The two most cruel and treacherous brothers, Jagiello and Vitovt, won the civil war.
Moreover, the new ruler of Lithuania carried out reforms. Vitovt really liked the rules in the lands of the Teutonic Order, and he introduced severe serfdom. The Austrian diplomat Herberstein described Lithuanian Rus: "The people are miserable and oppressed ... For if someone, accompanied by servants, enters the home of a villager, then he can do anything with impunity, rob and take things necessary for everyday use and even brutally beat the villager." “From the time of Vitovt up to our days, they are in such severe slavery that if someone is accidentally sentenced to death, then he is obliged, on the orders of the master, to execute himself and to hang himself with his own hand. If he refuses to do this, he will be cruelly carved, inhumanly tortured and nevertheless hung. ”

But these orders liked the feudal lords, Vitovt gained the support of the nobility. Successes he provided and insidious diplomacy. He seduced the young son-in-law of Basil I with the prospects of a union, married his daughter. But at the same time he again conquered the principalities, which fell away from Lithuania under Dmitry Donskoy. He decided to swallow Moscow itself. He entered into an agreement with the overthrown khan Tokhtamysh - Vitovt will help him return the throne in the Horde, and the khan gives up his Moscow ulus. The Catholic Church and Jagiello ardently supported the project, with Vitovt and Tokhtamysh made German, Polish troops. But they failed, Khan Temir-Kutlug and commander Edigei crushed the united army on Vorskla.

Nevertheless, Vitovt was sure that Russia would not leave him. Another chance fell to him after the death of Vasily I. On the throne, he turned out to be a minor Vasily II with his mother, Vitovt's daughter. Against the boy his uncles rebelled, the boyars intrigue. Vasily I and the regent-mother were forced to seek the protection of the Lithuanian grandfather. Oh, now Vitovt did not miss his. He forced the helpless Moscow sovereign to abandon Pskov, Novgorod — he started the war and laid a tribute to these cities. Ryazan and Tver imposed "unions", and they had to recognize submission to Lithuania.

The result of the rivalry was obvious, Russia was absorbed! Vitovt became proud, he decided to secede from Poland, begged the royal crown from the German emperor. Moscow, Ryazan, Tver grand princes respectfully arrived at the magnificent celebrations on the occasion of the coronation. We have arrived as vassals to congratulate the all-powerful sovereign, to stand by the throne at his celebrations. But the Poles did not want to lose Lithuania, they stole the crown, which they brought to Vilna. The ceremony fell through, and Vitovt died of frustration. Lithuania was again divided by distemper, Catholics were cut with the Orthodox, anti-Polish party with Polonophile.

Most of the Lithuanian nobility did not want to unite with Poland, they understood that they would be killed. But Western partners gradually gained Lithuania. The Poles began to penetrate the charms of the European "Renaissance". Luxury, imported curios, rich outfits, frivolous morals came into vogue. Pans burned time at balls, feasts, lush hunts. They boasted and "freedoms" - they were free-will, they regulated kings, they were buried in verbiage at meetings of the senates and seimas.

Lithuanian aristocrats are tempted. They acquired Polish chefs, musicians, tutors, mistresses. Polish nobles married their daughters to Lithuanian and Western Russian princes, nobles. They were richer than the Poles, owned large estates. And the Lithuanian and West Russian princes with the Pans also willingly married Polish women. They absorbed the “rebirth”, knew how to be cheerful, exciting, show signs of “culture”. The Catholic clergy and Poles dragged their supporters to the highest posts in Lithuania, and in the 15th century. the old Russian culture was supplanted. At the top of society, she was replaced by Polish interspersed with Italian. In 1449, the Inquisition was introduced in Lithuania, they writhed in the torture halls and shouted at the fires the unfortunate, recognized as witches and heretics - this was also part of Western culture.

Moscow Russia was on a different path, centralization, built autocracy. But European models, as it seemed, gave Lithuania undeniable advantages. She was supported by the Catholic West, and Moscow - no one. "Freedom" lured Russian boyars, fat cats. Oppositionists of all stripes ran abroad and received the warmest welcome. Novgorod "golden belts" repeatedly conspired with Casimir, as if to jump under the authority of his state.

However, for ordinary people, the hard power of Moscow sovereigns turned out to be much more preferable than the dominance of aristocrats! It was the autocracy that provided them with justice and "truth", protection from external enemies, and from internal predators. Thanks to this, Vasily II and his son Ivan III broke down the specific resistance. Moscow Russia gradually grew into a vast state. Its army was more disciplined, more trained than the militia of the gentry, and the next king, Casimir, did not dare to confront. Tried to blast mines.
As is known, the dying Byzantium concluded a church union with the Catholics. But Russia rejected it, the Uniate Metropolitan Uniate appointed to Moscow, Isidore had to flee abroad. And then Byzantium itself fell under the blows of the Turks. Uniya hung in the air, the Uniate “patriarch of Constantinople” (the same Isidor became) sat in Rome without a congregation. The springboard for the distribution of the union decided to make Lithuania. In 1458, Pope Pius II appointed Gregory Bulgarin as Metropolitan of Kiev Uniate. Casimir ordered to meet him with pomp, the Orthodox bishops go under his beginning.

In 1461, the Moscow Metropolitan, Prelate Jonah, died, and the Lithuanian king immediately sent an embassy. He persuaded the Moscow sovereign that the metropolitan already exists, Gregory the Bulgarian, he would take the place of Jonah, the church would be reunited, and the common metropolis would contribute to the fraternal union of Moscow and Lithuania. The trick did not pass, the Roman-Lithuanian intrigues were turned from the gate.

Well, Casimir, despite the friendly assurances, did not refuse the war either. If you could break Moscow! In the same way as Jagiello made an alliance with Mamaia, and Vitovt with Tokhtamysh, Casimir made bridges with the Horde Khan Akhmat. Agreed on 1480 to strike together. However, Moscow diplomacy was not asleep, acted efficiently. An alliance was made with the enemy Akhmat, the Crimean Khan Mengli-Giray. He made a raid on Volyn, the Polish and Lithuanian pans were frightened for their own estates, and the march broke down.

Akhmat led a horde to the Ugra, waited for Casimir, but he was not there. Moreover, the population did not sympathize with its sovereign, but with Moscow! The local principalities — Vorotynskoe, Belevskoye, Odoevskoe, and others — were the subjects of the king, but did not give Ahmat any warriors or supplies. Furious, Khan burned 12 cities belonging to Lithuania, but failed to break through the Russian defense. The standing on the Ugra marked not only the end of the Horde yoke for Moscow. It angered the Russian inhabitants of Lithuania. They compared how Ivan III defends his state, and how Casimir, for the sake of Catholic politics, brought the Tatars to their own lands.

This resulted in insurrection, and a number of princes announced that they were switching to the service of Moscow. Transfer together with the principalities. The Lithuanians tried to fight, but they were beaten, and the cities surrendered to the Moscow commanders without a fight. The new Lithuanian sovereign Alexander had to make peace in 1494, give Vyazma and other border areas. And Ivan III in the peace treaty took a very eloquent title - "the sovereign of all Russia."
The Catholic world at that time rolled into a full abyss of decomposition. On the papal throne, he found himself the most scandalous "high priest", Alexander VI Borgia: a poisoner, a pervert, a lover of his own daughter. It is not known what kind of “god” the pope believed in, but he hated Orthodoxy. The successes of the Russians were extremely disturbing to him, and he began to push the Lithuanian Alexander to a rematch. He promised support, helped to conclude alliances with Livonia, Hungary. And in Lithuania itself launched a campaign of okatolichivaniyu. Uniate metropolitan Joseph traveled around the country with detachments of Latin monks and soldiers. They took away from the Orthodox churches, priests were displaced. Having stepped into the city or village, people were forced to cross into Catholicism. Those who resisted were robbed of children, women, and re-baptized by force. Pope Borgia abundantly welcomed such actions. He issued a special bull, congratulated the Lithuanians: "Heretics, at last, are lit up with the true light."

But Ivan III did not keep silent, frankly wrote off that in Lithuania “they are building Latin goddesses in Russian cities, taking wives from husbands, and children are being baptized into Latin law from their parents ... Can I see indifferently oppressed Orthodoxy?” Declared war, and instead of revenge she turned into a disgrace for the Western coalition. Novgorod-Seversky, Chernihiv, Starodub, Gomel, Lyubech immediately crossed to the side of Moscow. The Lithuanian army was utterly defeated in the battle of Vedroshi.

The alarmed Borgia pope instantly became a “peacemaker”. In 1502, he offered his mediation in the settlement, he urged Ivan III to be compliant, not to look for acquisitions in the west. But the emperor ignored the mediation of the pervert Pope and did not show concession, he chose almost a third of the Lithuanian possessions!

From now on, the confrontation has rolled into “one gate”. The West incited Lithuania to new wars, and each time it lost cities and regions. However, the organizers of aggression were able to benefit even from defeats. In 1569, when Lithuania completely broke off, Rome and the Polish pans achieved the conclusion of the “Union of Lublin” - the Grand Duchy of Lithuania lost its independence and was absorbed by Poland, merged with it into one power, Rzeczpospolita.

But as a result of this confrontation, the Russian people for a long time remained divided. Those who lived under the rule of Moscow and St. Petersburg were called “Great Russians” in time. Those who lived under the rule of the Commonwealth, Byelorussians and Little Russians. Somewhere from the XVI century. the designation “Ukraine” also appeared, but it was applied only in the direct sense, as “margin”. The documents of that time mention “Polish Ukraine” (present-day Ukraine), “Moscow Ukraine” (Siverschyna, Belgorod, Kursk, Ryazan), “Sloboda Ukraine” (Kharkov, Izyum, Ostrogozhsk). Designated and "Crimean Ukraine" - the outskirts of the Crimean Khanate, and "Siberian Ukraine." The people of Ukraine themselves called themselves “Russians”, Orthodoxy - “the Russian faith”. By the way, in the administrative division of Poland, Lviv was considered the “Russian province”.
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  1. Sanyht
    Sanyht 22 March 2014 08: 09
    +16
    to what extent must one be a JUDAH in order to generally divide the thousand-year-old mixture of peoples into different nationalities in the USSR!
    1. Horde
      Horde 22 March 2014 13: 01
      +1
      Nevertheless, the outcome of the rivalry with Lithuania looked unequivocal. Could a tiny, modest Moscow withstand a huge and victorious power.

      some kind of nonsense, firstly not Moscow, but MOSKOVIA, namely MOSKOVIA is the PRIMARY concept and the name of the city and the river came from the name of the country, but where the name MOSCOW-MOSCOW KINGDOM came from is unknown historians very carefully hide this circumstance. The very name MOSCOW is also incomprehensible. -MOSKOVIA, what is it? it is quite clear what Novgorod or Tver is, is it a door somewhere, Yaroslavl, but MOSCOW? In addition, Shambarov forgets that by stretching Lithuania so far to the east, he comes into conflict with the circumstances that these territories are WHITE RUSSIA, i.e. Therefore, BELARUS could never be too "GREAT" ...
      1. SkiF_RnD
        SkiF_RnD 22 March 2014 13: 36
        +4
        This is indicated not only by Shambarov, but by a number of authoritative historians. And where does it come from, the city of Moscow, from the name of the country? This cannot be, the first mention of Moscow much earlier than the beginning of the formation of the Moscow Kingdom proper. Just the same Muscovy Rus was called Muscovy because Moscow became its center, by analogy with Dnieper, or in another way, Kievan Rus, and with Vladimir Rus. It does not happen that the historical capital is named after the country, but on the contrary, it happens, and quite often. Actually there are a lot of examples, the Greek name of the country of the ancient Egyptians - "Egypt" - from the name of the capital (Greek - Memphis, native - Het-Kaa-Ptah, in the Greek version "Hikupta"). The name of Assyria is from the name of the state-nome, the first city of the Assyrians, Illum Ashur (that is, "the city of Ashur"). Roman Empire - from the name of Rome, not vice versa (in the original the city is called Roma, well, the name of the state is appropriate). In general, most often the state is called either in the capital or by the name of the people. show examples of historical city names after states? Sincerely. hi
        1. Horde
          Horde 22 March 2014 14: 40
          +1
          Quote: SkiF_RnD
          And where does it come from, the city of Moscow from the name of the country? This cannot be, the first mention of Moscow much earlier than the beginning of the formation of the Moscow Kingdom itself.

          There is a contradiction, but the main thing here is the completely hidden meaning of the name MOSCOW - WHAT IS IT? there is an assumption that there was a PATRIARCH of MOSH, from which the name MOSCOW
          http://www.chronologia.org/audio/20140310_eho_nosovsky2.html
          1. SkiF_RnD
            SkiF_RnD 22 March 2014 15: 16
            +2
            There is a contradiction, but the main thing here is the completely hidden meaning of the name MOSCOW - WHAT IS IT?
            I am not a supporter of conspiracy theories. I know that in official history there are noticeable schools, omissions, and so on, but where does the stupid history and theory of super-scientists without the Nobel? You would also say that a city called Mosoki and Kwa is called, when I listened, I almost choked with laughter, it was like that. Do not take to heart, but what is the fundamental difference in general, why the city is called Moscow? Why Ashur? Why roma? Why Beijing? But this is not so important. It is important that a city with that name exists at the time of the birth of the Moscow Kingdom as such for hundreds of years. And the hack card, here. laughing Sincerely. Post scriptum, the name Moscow morphologically seems to be Finnish, and the majority of scientists agree that the Dnieper Rus colonized the local lands, squeezing them from the Meri, Chud, Mordovians, and other Fino-Ugrians. There people settled across a strip, if you now ride along these edges, there are the names of rivers, villages through one that is Finnish, then Slavic. Yes, and among the Russians there are people with cheekbones and a wide nose base, characteristic of the aborigines of these places. The word "Moscow" is similar to the Finnish one; indeed, they have such place names ending in "-va". There is nothing so strange in this, Berlin is also a Slavic word and nothing, the Germans seem to be happy, they do not change it to something else. hi
            1. Horde
              Horde 22 March 2014 16: 33
              -1
              Quote: SkiF_RnD
              I am not a supporter of conspiracy theories

              not a supporter means secrets in history, you are a happy person everything is clear to you ...

              Quote: SkiF_RnD
              what about the stupid stories and theories of super-scientists without the Nobel?

              Considering why they are giving snobel, let’s say the Obama Peace Prize, this incentive has lost all credibility among thinking people ...

              Quote: SkiF_RnD
              Do not take to heart, but what is the fundamental difference in general, why the city is called Moscow? Why Ashur? Why roma? Why Beijing? But this is not so important.


              well, it’s possible that it’s all the same to you why Rome, Roma, Romans, Rumelia, Romania are so similar, but it doesn’t matter to others that their point of view looks more justified, because people don’t call the city’s bay.
              Quote: SkiF_RnD
              Why beijing

              on old maps, this region of Asia was called the PEGOUS Horde, from here pezhin or spoiled Beijing ...
              Quote: SkiF_RnD
              And the hack card, here

              it’s difficult to find a REAL CARD of the 18th century, and even 17th is probably ALL DESTROYED by the Romanovs ...

              Quote: SkiF_RnD
              the name Moscow morphologically seems to be Finnish


              everything is strange, why would the GREAT RUSSIAN PEOPLE, who had possessions half the world, call their capital the name of the insignificant Finnish people? it doesn’t happen ...

              Quote: SkiF_RnD
              There is nothing so strange in that, Berlin is also a Slavic word and nothing, the Germans seem to be satisfied, they are not changing for another

              and how do you think that in the word BERLIN Slavic?
              1. Yemelya
                Yemelya 22 March 2014 16: 37
                +3
                Quote: Horde
                on old maps, this region of Asia was called PEGA HORDA


                On whose maps?
                1. Horde
                  Horde 22 March 2014 17: 22
                  -2
                  Quote: Emelya
                  On whose maps?

                  I don’t want to poke around, maybe later Fomenko Nosovsky has a whole book OLD CARDS there definitely are ...
                  1. Yemelya
                    Yemelya 22 March 2014 20: 25
                    +1
                    Quote: Horde
                    I don’t want to poke around, maybe later Fomenko Nosovsky has a whole book OLD CARDS there definitely are ...


                    Yes, I don’t have to have maps, at least give me an answer, on which maps could have been written "Piebald Horde" in Russian?
                    1. Horde
                      Horde 22 March 2014 21: 16
                      -3
                      Quote: Emelya
                      Yes, I don’t have to have maps, at least give me an answer, on which maps could have been written "Piebald Horde" in Russian?

                      find in the net PEGOA ORDA FOMENKO will give you a number of materials including the book PEGOUS HORDA
                      1. Yemelya
                        Yemelya 22 March 2014 21: 45
                        +4
                        Is this even where? Some border of Siberia with the Lukomorye. Whose card is it? Marco Polo painted, or who?
                  2. tomket
                    tomket 23 March 2014 20: 39
                    +1
                    well enough is already a shame fomenko
          2. tomket
            tomket 23 March 2014 20: 38
            0
            funny pictures again ?????
      2. Bully
        Bully 22 March 2014 18: 21
        +3
        [quote = Horde] [quote]
        some nonsense, firstly not Moscow, but MOSCOW, it is MOSCOW that the PRIMARY concept and the name of the country went the name of the city and river [/ quote]
        Just the opposite! Primarily the name of the river. And her name is not Slavic, but Sarmatian. In Sarmatian Moscow is spinning, twisted (VN Tatishchev claims. In his time there were still villages that spoke Sarmatian)
        1. Horde
          Horde 22 March 2014 18: 35
          +1
          Quote: Bully
          (VN Tatishchev claims. In his time there were still villages that spoke the Sarmatian language)

          Unfortunately, the works of Tatishchev, as well as the works on the history of Lomonosov, were edited by the Germans, therefore, the Sarmatians said there unknown ...
          1. Bully
            Bully 22 March 2014 18: 55
            +3
            Quote: Horde
            Quote: Bully
            (VN Tatishchev claims. In his time there were still villages that spoke the Sarmatian language)

            Unfortunately, the works of Tatishchev, as well as the works on the history of Lomonosov, were edited by the Germans, therefore, the Sarmatians said there unknown ...


            If we follow this logic, then, in principle, reliable information from past years does not exist and it is pointless to use the arguments of ancient authors. But then it is even more senseless to use the arguments of modern historians who do not have their own knowledge of events of which they were not contemporaries. In my opinion, this is a dead-end path. By the way, the modern edition of "The Tale of Bygone Years" differs significantly from the version given in the work of V.N. Tatishchev. Moreover, the comparison is not in favor of the modern version, although it is written in the language we are accustomed to, and not in the pre-reform one. In particular, in the modern version there is absolutely no mention of the expulsion of the Jews from Russia during the time of Vladimir Monomakh. Where is the editorial staff of Schletzer and Miller? Old or modern?
      3. Bully
        Bully 22 March 2014 18: 35
        0
        The concept of White Russia has nothing to do with the territory of modern Belarus. White Russia was called Russia Zalesskaya (Rostov, Suzdal) V.N. Tatishchev t. 1, part 2
        1. Horde
          Horde 22 March 2014 18: 40
          -1
          Quote: Bully
          Onia Belaya Rus has nothing to do with the territory of modern Belarus. White Russia was called Russia Zalesskaya (Rostov, Suzdal) V.N. Tatishchev t. 1, part 2

          from scratch means BELARUS arose? you tell me dad, here's a laugh ...
          1. Bully
            Bully 22 March 2014 18: 59
            0
            Quote: Horde
            Quote: Bully
            Onia Belaya Rus has nothing to do with the territory of modern Belarus. White Russia was called Russia Zalesskaya (Rostov, Suzdal) V.N. Tatishchev t. 1, part 2

            from scratch means BELARUS arose? you tell me dad, here's a laugh ...


            Why so primitive ?! Read the indicated source - you will find there answers to your questions)))
            1. Horde
              Horde 22 March 2014 19: 37
              -2
              Quote: Bully
              Why so primitive ?! Read the indicated source - you will find there answers to your questions)))

              wow do you think the state, which is in fact OBJECTIVE REALITY, the argument is more primitive than the writings of even a respected scientist? this does not happen, by the way, I drew your attention to the fact that the work of Tatishchev fell into hostile hands ...
              1. Bully
                Bully 22 March 2014 21: 13
                +1
                So the state of Ukraine is an objective reality. However, the Russians used to have a very specific meaning in the concept of Ukraine. For example, the Principality of Ryazan was for a long time Ukrainian land of Russia. By the way, the name Belaya Rus as applied to the Moscow-Vladimir-Suzdal land is found in both Western and Arab historians.
                1. Yemelya
                  Yemelya 22 March 2014 21: 42
                  +1
                  Quote: Bully
                  The Ryazan principality was for a long time Ukraine of the Russian land.


                  That's right!

                  Ukraine - the territories of Moscow Russia and the Commonwealth, bordering the Wild Field.

                  Borderland, in a word
    2. Ascetic
      Ascetic 22 March 2014 14: 34
      +5
      Quote: Sanyht
      to what extent must one be a JUDAH in order to generally divide the thousand-year-old mixture of peoples into different nationalities in the USSR!


      In Russia, the liberal European movement through the separatists of the boyars of Veliky Novgorod began to spread in 1471. Novgorodians were looking for an ally in Lithuania. It was about a party of boyars - supporters of the Lithuanian orientation, led by Martha Boretskaya. These fierce opponents of Moscow sought to transfer Novgorod under the rule of Casimir IV the Jagiellon, believing his promises to keep the Novgorod liberties and the Orthodox faith intact. Prince of Kiev Mikhail Olelkovich (great-grandson of Olgerd of Lithuania) arrived in Novgorod in 1471. This Gediminovich, who was a relative of Casimir IV, was to become the Prince of Novgorod. Thus, the boyars demonstrated their commitment to a rapprochement with Lithuania.
      secret anti-Orthodox and anti-Moscow propaganda began through the clergy. It appeared on the basis of the denial of Orthodox religious values, the so-called. the movement of the "Judaizers" All this seemed as they would say in a modern way. the movement of Novgorod Rus to European values, liberal freedoms is a kind of liberal, cultural and humanist movement that supposedly sought to enlighten the dense Rus, rooted in its Orthodox conservatism.These views were especially stubbornly promoted by the prominent Soviet historian Yakov Solomonovich Lurie, but in fact served as a separation forever of the Novgorod lands from the power of Moscow.
      And only thanks to the tough stance of Ivan III the Great (Holy) this heresy was rigidly swept out of Russia, as it seemed then forever. The Cathedral of 1504 decided to put to death the chief heretics through burning.
      They burned in specially constructed wooden log cabins, probably not wanting to demonstrate to the gathered horrors of dying agony. In Moscow, the brother of Fedor Kuritsyn, Ivan Volk Kuritsyn, Ivan Maximov, Dmitry Pustoselov, were executed. Nekras Rukavov was sent to Novgorod to cut back on his tongue, where he was burned along with the St. George archimandrite Kasyan, his brother Ivan Samocherny and others. The rest were sent to monasteries


      If they were to say so, the religious liberals would have won, in addition to the Belarusians and Ukrainians, a nation of Novgorodians would have appeared. They also roamed later on any move
      link
    3. rezident
      rezident 23 March 2014 14: 50
      0
      Nafig get in the way.
    4. sso-xnumx
      sso-xnumx 23 March 2014 18: 02
      +2
      I.V. was right Stalin, when he opposed the policy of self-determination of nations and offered to introduce only autonomy, and preferably without it at all! Only the provinces, in the sense of the region.
  2. sergey32
    sergey32 22 March 2014 08: 27
    +15
    It revolts me why we don’t have a single monument to the creator of Russia, Ivan III the Great. It was he who, from a small Moscow principality, created a mighty country. He began to rule from childhood, went to military campaigns with his father, led a skilful foreign policy, and delivered the country from the Horde dependency. The most significant sovereign in our history.
  3. The comment was deleted.
    1. SPAAARTAAA
      SPAAARTAAA 22 March 2014 09: 41
      0
      Another troll has registered! Recently, something has become a lot of you. Do you work out babosy or do * p * ak on your own?
      1. avt
        avt 22 March 2014 09: 53
        +5
        Quote: SPAAARTAAA
        Another troll has registered!

        And now, not with his mind, but with his backside in the Crimea, he turned on the back laughing
        Quote: Rusin№1
        Ancestors of modern Ukrainians Belarusians and Russians from the western regions

        It seems like it’s not from proto-curas anymore, it almost means common ancestors.
        Quote: Rusin№1
        There are as many Turkic genes in Ukrainians as there are in Poles, about 2%
        However, in modern Russians there are as many.

        Even ready for racial equality laughing
        Quote: Rusin№1
        Ukrainians and Belarusians never considered themselves "Russians", but Rusyns. Hack on the nose, ignoramus.

        BUT, Velikoukriya rules. Yes, the Austro-Hungarians did a lot of work on the Ukraine project, they did a great job.
        1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Samurai3X
      Samurai3X 22 March 2014 09: 45
      +2
      Quote: Rusin№1
      The ancestors of modern Ukrainians Belarusians and Russians from the western regions (Pskov, Smolensk)

      Quote: Rusin№1
      Modern Russia is the legal successor of the Moscow principality, created by the Mongols in the 1263 year, as a vassal to oppose other north-Russian principalities, primarily Tversky.

      Quote: Rusin№1
      Ukrainians and Belarusians never considered themselves "Russians", but Rusyns. Hack on the nose, ignoramus.

      Each of the points should be justified, dear ... And so this is from the level a second cousin grandmother said. x)
      You probably live only within the apartment and the Internet, since you think so and practically do not talk with people)
      1. muginov2015
        muginov2015 22 March 2014 12: 02
        +1
        Do not pay attention to this provocateur - another ukromaydaun with fat instead of brains - everywhere puts smelly heaps
      2. Blot
        Blot 22 March 2014 12: 18
        -4
        Ukranians-this is the Russian !!! The most Russian! They are the founders of Russia! And it is strange to me how they forgot about it ... But Belarusians never considered themselves Russian !!! And not because being Russian is bad, but because we are just different people.
        1. Yemelya
          Yemelya 22 March 2014 12: 55
          +4
          Quote: Blot
          fenders-this is the Russian !!! The most Russian! They are the founders of Russia!


          And, like, Novgorod, etc. did not participate in the foundation?

          Quote: Blot
          And it is strange to me how they forgot about it ...


          Small-town nationalism has become a state ideology in an artificial state.
          1. Blot
            Blot 22 March 2014 14: 33
            0
            I mean, at first it was Kievan Rus. When the cue came to the Dnieper.
            1. Yemelya
              Yemelya 22 March 2014 15: 09
              +3
              Quote: Blot
              I mean, at first it was Kievan Rus.


              "Kievan Rus", as far as I know, is a term of historians, such as "Egypt of the Ancient Kingdom", just the capital was there since 882, but Russia (if it was called so at that time) was not only around Kiev, and certainly not from Kiev " is gone, "Kiev is one of the political (economic) centers, which became the capital of a centralized (if this term is applicable to that era) state.
              1. Blot
                Blot 22 March 2014 15: 35
                0
                Then why did Rurik not call himself Russian, and did Kiy designate himself? But because Kiy led RUSINOV.
                1. Yemelya
                  Yemelya 22 March 2014 15: 44
                  +1
                  Quote: Blot
                  and Kiy designated himself


                  And where did he designate himself so?

                  And how do we know how Rurik designated himself?
                  1. Blot
                    Blot 22 March 2014 15: 49
                    0
                    Well, at least that was Muscovy and Kievan Rus.
                    1. Yemelya
                      Yemelya 22 March 2014 16: 15
                      +3
                      Quote: Blot
                      Well, at least that was Muscovy and Kievan Rus.


                      First there was Russia, which historians later called Kiev for convenience of designation, then such a state did not exist, a geographical name remained, in the vastness of which there were principalities, great and small. Muscovy is a foreign name applied to the state of Russia, the heir to the Principality of Moscow. Ivan the Terrible was the king of all Russia (not all, of course, but he was called so, with a claim, so to speak). All sorts of Poles and Lithuanians, under whose control was located that part of Russia that is now Ukraine, the stump is clear, for convenience and, probably, for propaganda purposes, they called that Russia, which was under Moscow’s rule - Muscovy. Moscow Russia, then it was also called Israel.
        2. IS-80
          IS-80 22 March 2014 15: 01
          +1
          Zmagar provocateur drew. You may come from another nation, but the Belarusians are Russian.
          1. Blot
            Blot 22 March 2014 15: 37
            -4
            Did you call me a provocateur? And what is the provocation? This is a story, perhaps this subject was not in your school. But most likely that you just smoked around the corner when these lessons were going.
            1. IS-80
              IS-80 22 March 2014 17: 32
              0
              Yes, at least the fact that you have the emblem ON is on your avatar. I do not smoke first, and secondly, this rubbish with grand-ducal nationalism must be crushed in the bud.
              1. Blot
                Blot 22 March 2014 22: 09
                0
                I understand you. Unfortunately, this symbol has been discredited. But it was under this emblem that we beat both the Germans and the Poles. And then, is nationalism bad?
                1. sscha
                  sscha 22 March 2014 23: 59
                  +1
                  Nationalism - should have a place in moderation! Otherwise, it turns into Nazism - fascism - an empty place !!! - zero !! History teaches those who do not teach it !!! laughing hi
            2. Aleksandr89
              Aleksandr89 23 March 2014 17: 07
              +2
              Dear Klyaksa, if you are such a fan of historical banners, then put the Coat of Arms of Polotsk or Turov Principality on the avatar, at the worst end of Kievan Rus. This emblem has compromised itself at a later time and it is not necessary to advertise this emblem.
        3. skullcap
          skullcap 23 March 2014 22: 31
          +1
          Quote: Blot
          Ukrains - this is Russian !!! Most Russian! They are the founders of Russia! And it is strange to me how they forgot about it ... And the Belarusians have never considered themselves Russian !!! And not because being Russian is bad, but because we are just another people


          As kosopuz, and therefore the most ancient, I affirm that Ryazan people are just another people.
          At the same time, the Belarusians, along with Black Rus and Bereste Rus, have always been an organic and inseparable part of the Russian people. From the side of the most ancient, and therefore the most wise - kosopuzogo - people, this can be seen quite clearly. You can believe me absolutely calmly.
        4. The comment was deleted.
  4. sscha
    sscha 22 March 2014 08: 49
    +3
    And I especially carefully read the names of the cities "Moscow outskirts", "Slobodskoy outskirts" (namely, the outskirts). The outskirts are extreme lands.
    The extreme lands of Muscovy !!! laughing
    And here is Ukraine in its current borders and especially Stepan Bandera? hi
    1. Yemelya
      Yemelya 22 March 2014 20: 33
      +1
      Quote: sscha
      Outskirts - extreme lands.
      The extreme lands of Muscovy !!!
      And here is Ukraine in its current borders and especially Stepan Bandera?


      This is the outskirts of the Commonwealth.
  5. borisjdin1957
    borisjdin1957 22 March 2014 09: 33
    0
    from the Don.
    Faith! The Orthodox faith is the pivot of the peoples living in Eastern Europe. And how can I not mention Metropolitan Alexei who took care of Muscovy during the growing up of Dmitry Donskoy! Thanks to him, his efforts, the principality surrounded by Lithuania, Mikhail Tversky, Mamai, the Tatar horde, could not only survive, but also defeat Mamai on the Kulikovo field! This man deserves great memory!
  6. predator.3
    predator.3 22 March 2014 10: 16
    +3
    Jagiello was late for the battle for just one day's transition.
    Yes, he was not late anywhere, he was just waiting for someone to win.
    1. Blot
      Blot 22 March 2014 12: 13
      +1
      Didn't wait and was not late !!! Although Muscovy was an enemy for Lithuania, but Jagiello, like the entire army (mostly), were still Orthodox! And so he stretched the baggage train !!! He also knew that on the side of the Russian troops, his cousin, Andrei Polotsky, was fighting with his squad! Jagiello already knew that he would not "be in time" !!!
      1. Yemelya
        Yemelya 22 March 2014 12: 50
        +1
        Also, somehow, it seems that he was not in a hurry ...
      2. predator.3
        predator.3 22 March 2014 13: 03
        +2
        Quote: Blot
        but Jagiello, like the entire army (mostly), were still Orthodox! And so he stretched the baggage train !!! He also knew that on the side of the Russian troops, his cousin, Andrei Polotsky, was fighting with his squad! Jagiello already knew that he would not "be in time" !!!
        Andrei Olgerdovich Polotsky was his brother, whom Jagiello expelled from Polotsk, Jagiello himself is the son of Tver Princess Ulyana, 2nd wife of Olgerd!
        And his Orthodox army plundered a train of other Orthodox - Novgorodians returning home from the Kulikovo field! and religion, he changed like a glove; he wanted to become a Polish king, converted to Catholicism in 1385
        1. Blot
          Blot 22 March 2014 14: 26
          0
          Andrei Polotsky was the son of Keistut and the brother of Vtovt!
          1. predator.3
            predator.3 23 March 2014 13: 21
            0
            Yan Tengovsky offers the following list of children of Olgerd [23]: From the first marriage with Anna:
            Fedor (d. 1394/1400) - Prince of Ratnensky, the founder of the princes Kobrinsky and Sangushek.
            Andrei (d. 1399 in the battle of Vorskla) - governor of Pskov (1342–1349), prince of Polotsk (1349–1387), governor of Novgorod (1394);
            unknown by name son (d. 1353);
            Dmitry (d. 1399 in the battle of Vorskla) - Prince of Bryansk, Trubetskoy, Drutsky, owner of Pereyaslavl-Ryazan (1379-1388);
            Vladimir (1398 or later) - Prince of Vitebsk (before 1367), Kiev (until 1367–1394);
            an unknown daughter (d. 1370 or later) - the wife of Prince Ivan of Novosilsky;
            Agrippina (1342 or later - 1393?) - the wife of Suzdal Prince Boris Konstantinovich;
            From a second marriage with Julian:
            Kenna (c. 1351–1367) - wife of the slup prince Kajka (Casimir IV);
            Euphrosyne (c. 1352-1405 / 1406) - wife of the Grand Duke of Ryazan Oleg Ivanovich;
            Skirgailo (Ivan; c. 1354–1394) - Prince of Vitebsk (c. 1373–1381), Trok (1382–1392), Polotsk (1387–1394), governor of the king in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania (1386–1392), prince of Kiev (1394 );
            Koribut (Dmitry; c. 1355 - until 1404) - Prince of Novgorod-Seversky;
            Fedor - the wife of Svyatoslav Karachevsky;
            Lungveni (Semyon; 1356 or later - 1431) - governor of Novgorod (1389-1392), prince of Mstislavsky (1390-1431);
            Elena (1357/1360 - 1437) - the wife of Vladimir Andreevich the Brave;
            Jagiello (Vladislav; c. 1362-1434) - Grand Duke of Lithuania (from 1377), King of Poland (from 1386);
            Maria (c. 1363) - the wife of the boyar Voidila, the wife of Prince David Gorodetsky;
            Karigailo (Casimir; c. 1364/1367 - 1390) - Prince of Mstislav;
            Minigailo (c. 1365/1368 - until 1382);
            Alexandra (1368/1370 - 1434) - wife of the Mazovian prince Zemovit IV;
            Catherine (1369/1374 - 1422 or later) - wife of the Mecklenburg prince Johann II;
            Wigund (c. 1372–1392) - Prince of Kern;
            Svidrigailo (c. 1373-1452) - Grand Duke of Lithuania (1430-1432);
            Jadwiga (c. 1375) - wife of the Auschwitz prince Jan III.
        2. Blot
          Blot 22 March 2014 14: 35
          0
          And Jagiello was the son of Algerd.
        3. Blot
          Blot 22 March 2014 14: 44
          -1
          Have you forgotten that the rest of Russia considered Novgorod to be traitors to Russia? Nevsky supported the Tatars.
          1. Blot
            Blot 22 March 2014 15: 40
            -1
            Well, what are you minus? Open the story and see.
            1. predator.3
              predator.3 23 March 2014 13: 23
              0
              Quote: Blot
              Open the story and see.

              Yes, I graduated from a whole history department!
  7. DS22
    DS22 22 March 2014 10: 22
    +7
    We are one people, like it or not!
  8. The comment was deleted.
  9. parus2nik
    parus2nik 22 March 2014 11: 06
    +3
    set some brothers on others.. But we are not brothers, one people, Great Russians, White Russians, Little Russians (Ukrainians) -Russians ... someone always wants us not to be united and beat one by one .. Where did the Slavic tribes living on the territory of Western Europe? Those who did not want to "Europeanize" were destroyed .. And those who "Europeanized" became Czechs, Slovaks, Poles .. forgetting their Slavic essence ..
  10. Blot
    Blot 22 March 2014 11: 48
    +5
    Modern Belarus is historical Lithuania !!!!!!!!!!!! And modern Lietuvia is Zhamoitia and Aukštaia !!! Which, before the XNUMXth century, did not even have their own writing! So, Gedymin could not "crush" Belarus-Lithuania under himself !!! The author himself does not understand what he is writing !!! The name Belarus was introduced only by Catherine. Gedymin's son Algerd freed Ukraine from the Tatars, raskherasty them on the Blue Water! And Gedymin's grandson, Algerd's nephew, Andrei Polotsky, (Vitovt's brother) beat the Tatars on the Kulikovo field along with the Russian troops. So, such historians as the author of this article should be driven away with a filthy broom for distorting the facts! Before you write something, you need to teach the subject a little! In general, we are all SLAVS, and therefore, we need to stick together right now !!!
    1. SkiF_RnD
      SkiF_RnD 22 March 2014 13: 39
      0
      So Lithuanians are Slavs, so what?
      1. Blot
        Blot 22 March 2014 14: 32
        +2
        Litvin and not Lithuanians !!! Modern Lietuva (Lithuanians in your opinion) is Zhmud and Aukštaity! These are the Baltic tribes. Lithuania is the Polabian Slavs, who were forced to shed from "Europe", because they began to squeeze them there! The Krivichi also molted, but they went along the north of the modern territory of Belarus. It was they who founded the present capital of the Lithuanians, Vilnia !!! It was Krivich - hail. Some also claim that it was Lithuania who came from Mecklenburg! And there is confirmation of this.
    2. zavesa01
      zavesa01 23 March 2014 04: 56
      0
      BRAVO !!! Unfortunately, many now consider Lithuania to be the Baltic states, which is generally not true. In schools, the history of ancient Russia is practically NOT taught at all. About the ancient world and even more.
  11. Blot
    Blot 22 March 2014 12: 07
    +1
    Oh yes! By the way! Catherine the Great bred the Mindovg clan - the first King of Lithuania (Belarus), from Rostislav Polotsky! And there is no reason not to trust Catherine! So decide for yourself whether Gedymin, the heir to Mindovg, could crush under himself, as he writes, with the permission of the historian, His own lands ????? I goof ...
    1. IS-80
      IS-80 22 March 2014 17: 35
      0
      Yeah, Catherine the Great is still that historian. Actually, there is no reason to trust either.
  12. Cossacks
    Cossacks 22 March 2014 12: 26
    +1
    The history was constantly corrected by the Rurikovichs, Romanovs, the Lenin Guard, current liberals, and as a result, any nonsense can be found in it. But there is a logic of things and a natural course of history. Therefore, I believe that the Norman and in general the official version of the History of Russia is far-fetched. Everything is sharpened under one task to solve all their problems at the expense of the Russians. Therefore, they deliberately embroil crap about the positive role of baptism, that Belarusians and Ukrainians are nations, and not assimilated by the Poles of Rus. For reference, Russians used to be in the sense of non-Russians. The question is why the word Russian is so persistently introduced. Came to senility officials say ethnic Russians. All this is a consequence of Russophobia and illiteracy.
  13. sv68
    sv68 22 March 2014 12: 51
    0
    I’ll say simply, it’s not the essence that the name of the people is important, but its essence is important
  14. kamr
    kamr 22 March 2014 14: 32
    +2
    Current Ukraine does not consider itself Slavs.
    1. Blot
      Blot 22 March 2014 14: 41
      +5
      They already have brains on one side !!! Suma get off ... They shout at the Russian bastards, although they themselves are Russian !!! shredded ...
      1. IS-80
        IS-80 22 March 2014 15: 06
        0
        And who are you? Native American chtoli?
      2. Yemelya
        Yemelya 22 March 2014 15: 14
        0
        Quote: Blot
        They shout at the Russian bastards, although they themselves are Russian !!! shredded ...


        If you look at the activists of the Maidan, etc. Svidomitami, then for the most part they do not seem to have a relationship with the Slavs - some sort of chukhokhachi. Tyagnibok is a true Aryan, damn ... black and bulging eyes - at best - some Moldavian. Yarosh is a clear caucasoid.
        1. Blot
          Blot 22 March 2014 15: 44
          0
          Perhaps I agree with you.
  15. Cristall
    Cristall 22 March 2014 18: 34
    +2
    guys what you got ... There is a plausible story, but there is no absolutely pure true story (in general, as well as the absolute truth)
    History is the most changing part of the culture and description of the event that you can imagine.
    The most imaginary part, the most fantastic part. Each nation writes "its" history, each ruler his own, each writer his own. Go figure out, whose history is the most historic ...
    about the opinion - Rusichi, Rusyns ... one fig ... Hops said that Rusyns, in history - Rusichi ...
    But the implications of Kiev are still difficult to challenge. Triangle Novgorod-Kiev-Moscow. In addition, all these early feudal princes are mainly KIEvsky.
    In general, I live in the territory of the ancient Greeks. And I consider the history of Ukraine (textbook) suitable only for going to the toilet. Very "Ukrainian".
  16. Bully
    Bully 22 March 2014 20: 50
    +3
    Author: "... Yagailo was only one day's march late for the battle. I learned about the crushing defeat of Mamai and rushed to flee home. The inglorious campaign undermined his authority even among the pagans. He was overthrown by uncle Keistut."

    Where did the information come from?
    Yagailo was not late for anywhere, but stood and waited for the Tatars to gain the upper hand. Mamai before the battle was tortured to send messengers to him. The first reason for inaction (D. Balashov "Holy Russia"): between the army of Yagailo and Dmitry Ivanovich stood the squad of Oleg Ryazansky and covered the rear of the Russians. The second reason: Jagailo needed to keep the army for the subsequent struggle for power with Uncle Keistut, who, being a pagan and a true Lithuanian, despised Jagailo for dishonesty and venality.
    1. Blot
      Blot 22 March 2014 22: 16
      +2
      Do you really think that the squad would stop the army of Jagaille? If he really wanted to help the Tatars, then do not hesitate, he would do it. Ah, Jagiello really was a scumbag, that's for sure. Keystut is insanely sorry ...
      1. Bully
        Bully 22 March 2014 22: 38
        +2
        Oleg Ryazansky had an army be healthy - they fought constantly and successfully! And with the Tatars, and with Lithuania, and unfortunately, with Moscow. Especially in their own land. Oleg’s professionalism is evidenced by the fact that the Moscow army sent by Dmitry Ivanovich with a punitive purpose to Ryazan (supposedly because Oleg showed Tokhtamysh fords on the Oka) was defeated on his head. But the Moscow army consisted of veterans of the Battle of Kulikovo.
      2. Yemelya
        Yemelya 23 March 2014 12: 40
        +1
        Quote: Blot
        Do you really think that the squad would stop the army of Jagaille?


        And Jagiello has a regular army.
        The Ryazan principality was the same state as the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, the Ryazan prince had the same title. The scales are different, no doubt, but not by an order of magnitude. And for a rough estimate of the military potential of the Ryazan Prince. the information about the losses of Dmitry's troops on the Kulikovo field, given in "Zadonshchina", may come up. Ryazan boyars died the most. This, of course, is circumstantial evidence, but I think it will do for a rough estimate.
  17. V1451145
    V1451145 22 March 2014 22: 21
    -2
    Ukrainians are very melodious people.
    Gathered together, they can spend hours singing their favorite songs, just to not work.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Cristall
      Cristall 23 March 2014 11: 54
      0
      chord ... I’m not a Ukrainian ... I sing weakly (only at school I did well) I don’t like to get ready, I have to work ... ehhh
  18. Nasrat
    Nasrat 22 March 2014 22: 53
    +5
    History is written by people, and politicians are rewriting. I know one thing - I live on my own land where my Father, my Grandfathers and I are buried in RUSSIAN, albeit with Ukrainian roots, and not even one academician, and even more so an "academician" with a weapon has no right to call me an ethnic group or a national minority. I will kill.
  19. The comment was deleted.
  20. Alexandr0id
    Alexandr0id 23 March 2014 02: 50
    -2
    the whole point is that the East Slavic tribes, contrary to popular belief and this article, with all their kinship, have never been a single nation. there was no Russian nation, later divided into Russians, Ukrainians and Belarusians. there were separate tribes - glades, Drevlyans, streets, Tivertsy, northerners, etc., at some point united by the Varangian kings - Rurik and his descendants, while due to the sedentary mixing of the tribes in the short-lived old Russian state, it never happened. in fact, the tribal division resulted in a further administrative division - many separate principalities with related dynasties, but with diverse tribes. it was in this form that the Mongols found them, and then the Lithuanians. and only during the period of the Tatar and Lithuanian-Polish occupation did the Russian, Ukrainian and Belarusian peoples begin to form.
    the so-called united old Russian nationality is more a political concept.
  21. zavesa01
    zavesa01 23 March 2014 05: 17
    +1
    However, ALL of these tribes were SLAVES, which means one people with a very closely intertwined culture.
    If it is hypothetically assumed that there was no Tatar-Mongol horde, and there was an internecine war between Christian and pagan Russia, then many of the misunderstandings of history become easily explained. Moreover, it is WESTERN historians with obstinacy that the yoke was. It is interesting to read the history of Russia according to their version only with NOT consoles. It turns out very interesting. And the rewriting of the history of Lomonosov and Tatishchev was! Why and why ??? A nation can only be destroyed by destroying its culture and history. Glory to the ancestors for the fact that they very quickly wrote a new, legendary story. Which not even the Western people can repeat, cannot be involved. That rage from their insignificance and envy. Hence the hatred of the Russians.
  22. On the bayonet
    On the bayonet 23 March 2014 11: 04
    0
    A nation that does not remember its past has no future.
    Historian V.O. Klyuchevsky.
    So everything is correct, it is very important to study both theory and materiel, so as not to become "Ivan who does not remember kinship"!
  23. rodevaan
    rodevaan 23 March 2014 11: 18
    +1
    WE ARE BROTHERS! AND WE WILL TOGETHER - WOULD IT WANT THIS WEST OR NO! IT IS NECESSARY TO WORK ABOUT IT - ALL OWN TIME! CRIMEA AND SEVASTOPOL SHOW IT!
    RUSSIAN GREAT WORLD - WILL BE ONE AND UNBEATABLE - AND THIS TIME IS NOT AWAY!
  24. Aleksandr89
    Aleksandr89 23 March 2014 16: 54
    0
    Quote: Blot
    Ukranians-this is the Russian !!! The most Russian! They are the founders of Russia! And it is strange to me how they forgot about it ... But Belarusians never considered themselves Russian !!! And not because being Russian is bad, but because we are just different people.



    For those, he poorly taught history at school, or they slipped him the wrong textbooks, or he has a Western history, let me remind you briefly. During the early Middle Ages, numerous related tribes of the Slavs of the 6-9th century settled on the territory of Eastern Europe. The Slavs in the territory of the modern countries of Russia, Belarus and Ukraine began to mix with the local Finno-Ugric tribes, the Balts and the remnants of the Scythian-Sarmatians. As a result, Prince Vladimir unites the entire territory of Eastern Europe on the basis of Slavic tribes.
    For lovers of the aging of their history, I will also write that with the weakening of the Old Russian State (Kievan Rus, in the sources of mention of the tribes of Rus), the population was called Rusich, or people Russian. So those who studied poorly remember only the Mongol invasion, which finally divided the united people. But before them there were invasions of nomads: the Pechenegs (10- early 11 centuries), Polovtsy (11-12 centuries) and the devastation of the territory of modern Ukraine, the creation of the so-called Wild Field, beneficial to nomads in the steppe. Since that time, resettlement from Ukraine began in two directions: to the west, the territory of Galicia-Volyn Rus (Principality) and to the northeast, the territory of the Vladimir-Suzdal principality (Rus) - the future beginning of Moscow. The Galician-Volyn principality fought with the Hungarians and Poles in the 12th beginning. 13th century - this is one of the strongest states, but was forced to join Вthe eldest Кaffection ЛItovsky (Belarus and Western Lithuania, all Orthodox). The Principality of Vladimir fell under the Horde yoke and emerged from the process of a new unification. Moscow after the overthrow of the yoke became an opponent in the gathering of the East Slavic territories of the principalities. Both ON and Moscow were two equal contenders for the creation of a pan-Slavic Eastern European Orthodox state. Their forces were approximately equal, but the intervention of third forces hindered the processes of unification. Moscow-Russia redirected colonization to the eastern territories and their annexation. The GDL, under pressure from Poland, gradually separated from Russia primarily religiously (the spread of Catholicism and Uniate). The Russian Empire at the end of the 18th century (1772,1793,1795) returns the territory of Ukraine and Belarus. But part of the territory of Ukraine - Galicia became part of the Austrian Empire. Literary Ukrainian was artificially deduced there, which became a symbol of the struggle for independence and the liberation of Ukrainian territories from Russia.


    Today's Ukraine, as it were, was not a sadly artificial formation. After the revolution and the victory of the Bolsheviks, Ukraine received the territory of the south and south-east, which were Russian. When the RI army took away the territory of modern southern Ukraine and Crimea from Turkey as a result of two wars in the 18th century DO NOT BELIEVE, BUT THERE WAS NOT UKRAINIANS. THESE TERRITORIES RE-POPULATED RUSSIANS AND BUILT NEW CITIES.

    For fans of the Ukrainian Cossacks, I also recall that they were in the service of Poland and Russia at the same time. A ZAPORIZHSKY SICH was a little south of modern KIEV and protected the NORTH territories from intrusions from the Wild Field.
  25. ShtyrliTTS
    ShtyrliTTS 23 March 2014 20: 51
    0
    A force capable of resisting the Horde impressed. Other Russian lands reached Lithuania. Smolensk voluntarily passed under her patronage, the Bryansk region obeyed. Gedimin and his successor Olgerd were quite loyal to the new subjects. In the annexed principalities, the old laws and self-government were preserved. The rulers did not burden people with excessive requisitions, did not encroach on Orthodoxy. On the contrary, the semi-wild forest tribes adopted Russian culture and writing. Russian has become the official language in Lithuania.
    The semi-wild forest tribes are the force that defeated the horde !! and after the seizure of the territory of "Belarus" they also voluntarily adopted the language of the enslaved people as the main language. understand me correctly).
    The indigenous population of the Republic of Belarus anthropologically and genetically invariably 3000-3500 years old (as a minimum) These are studies of Belarusian scientists. Not so long ago, an article about research by the Russian Academy of Sciences came out to the VO, which confirmed the theory that Belarusians are Slavicized Balts. And to the citizen who mentioned nationalism at the sight of my state symbols, I recall that the ROA during the Second World War used the current Russian flag.
  26. mehmeh
    mehmeh 4 December 2014 19: 50
    0
    The current nationalist attacks are connected with the desire to tear Ukraine from rapprochement with Russia. peaceful methods did not work.
    So it went off the ban on education in Russian. ban television press. some sort of euro, as if the Ukrainians would decide Europe will cooperate with them. bright union of a rider and a donkey
    Donkey chooses euro comedy choice at all