Military Review

Problem "Mistral." Problem for France

109



Despite the ridiculousness of the sanctions imposed by the West, Washington and Brussels are still hoping to at least slightly mischief Russia. So, France threatened to terminate the agreement on the sale of two UDC "Mistral" to the Russian Naval Fleet. Paris must be given its due: he, along with Berlin and Rome, until the last did not want a confrontation with Moscow, but it seems that US President Barack Obama still managed to convince Francois Hollande to join the anti-Russian bloc. At the same time, France understands that sanctions will be ineffective and only harm the political prestige and national economy of the Fifth Republic.

Deal of the Decade

The agreement on the construction of Mistral class amphibious assault ships was signed by representatives of Russia and France in June 2011. Helicopter carriers are engaged in the construction of the French company STX, whose shipyards are located in the city of Saint-Nazaire, although the stern is assembled at Russian enterprises. In addition, Russia will also deal with the pre-armament of ships. To equip a single UDC, it will take at least a year — such dates are laid down in the plans of the Ministry of Defense.

One of the UDC "Mistral", called "Vladivostok", 5 March has already left the port of Saint-Nazaire and went to sea trials. The second ship "Sevastopol" is almost completed, it should be launched this summer. Now his stern is being completed on the slipway A of the Baltic Shipyard, after which they are towed to France, where the final assembly of the helicopter carrier will be completed.

Russia planned to locate both vessels in Ulysses Bay in Vladivostok: On February 11, the first pile of the berth intended for servicing Mistral-class ships was filled. Both UDCs are assigned to the Pacific Fleet - temporarily. Officers of this fleet are retrained in St. Petersburg in order to serve in foreign helicopter carriers.

When buying Mistral, Russian specialists were most interested in the SENIT-9 combat information management system — one of the latest foreign developments. But France promised to transfer the secrets of this technology to Russian specialists only on condition that Moscow orders the construction of two more ships. It is known that the blackmail did not work, and both sides remained with their: Russia buys only two helicopter carriers, and France keeps military secrets.

"Mistral" as weapon diplomacy

17 March was warned by Laurent Fabius, head of the French foreign ministry, that the sale of the Mistral UDC could be canceled. The logic of the Parisian official is interesting: in his words, France will take such measures if "a further escalation of the conflict occurs in Ukraine". How is the political crisis in Kiev connected with the introduction of sanctions against Russia, Laurent Fabius did not elaborate.

It turns out that if some “Right Sector” somewhere in Lviv or Ivano-Frankivsk once again attacks the prosecutor's office or the SBU, will Russia be responsible for this? The conclusions of the French official completely divorced from reality: the fate of the contract concluded between the military departments of the two influential powers, depends entirely on the actions of juvenile delinquents.

Laurent Fabius considers the refusal to sell Mistral to the third stage of the sanctions imposed against Russia. According to the estimates of the French Foreign Minister, the United States and European countries are now at the second stage, and only a little bit is left to the third.

However, the official completely forgot that the purchase of helicopter carriers is an exclusively political decision. At the time when the deal was concluded, relations between Russia and France were rather warm, and both countries were counting on long-term mutually beneficial cooperation.

Even on the eve of the signing of the contract, Russian experts began to argue about whether to buy ships at all: according to experts, the Russian fleet does not need the French UDC. The fact is that foreign helicopter carriers are not adapted for Russian-made helicopters, which, when landing on the deck, increase the height of the vessel. The ship from this becomes less stable.

Also helicopter carriers are not adapted for walking in the ice - and this is a prerequisite for the operation of ships in the northern latitudes. The Mistral design is such that they will not be able to go to sea even with a small ice cover, which makes it impossible to use them in the Baltic Sea, in the Pacific Ocean, and even in the Black Sea basin.

Moreover, the money paid to French shipbuilders could be used to build modern ships of a similar class at shipyards located in Russia. This would not only equip the naval forces, but also stimulate the modernization of domestic enterprises. Engineers are guaranteed to be able to design such vessels that would exactly correspond to the technical features of Russian-made helicopters.

At the same time, the cost of building ships in Russia is much less than abroad. Why "Mistral" decided to buy from France - a separate issue to military officials responsible for such a decision.

But, despite any mistakes, Russia does not lose anything because of the actions of Monsieur Hollande. France now has to pay damages to the Russian military department - yes, what!

How France punished herself

The termination of the sale of such equipment as a helicopter carrier will be a serious problem for France. Paris will face such difficulties as:

• refund of the contract amount to Russia - 1,2 billion dollars, while 80% of this amount has already been transferred to French accounts;
• additional payment of a multi-billion dollar fine for failure to comply with its obligations;
• great difficulty in finding buyers who are ready to purchase unfinished ships;
• loss of foreign policy prestige: hardly anyone will want to get involved in a country that does not adhere to the agreements reached.

Russia has the right to file a lawsuit in the Geneva Arbitration Court. A few years ago, Moscow itself got into an unpleasant situation when it refused to sell Iran a batch of the latest anti-missile systems worth about 700 million dollars. Then the representatives of the Islamic Republic appealed to the international community with a demand to judge the dispute, and the trial ended in favor of Iran: Russia paid 4 a billion dollars to its partner.

It is easy to imagine how many billions can be demanded from France. The cost of the deal between Moscow and Paris is almost two times higher than in the case of Iran. Accordingly, compensation payments will be much more.

With this money, Russia will be able to build several ships capable of competing with the Mistrals on an equal footing, but at the same time suitable for operation in the seas washing its shores.

If France freezes the funds intended for compensation payments, such actions will be regarded as international piracy and a violation of the basic principles of cooperation between states. Paris will lose face, and will become an outcast not only in the east, but also in Europe itself. The loss of prestige will be an unbearable blow to French diplomacy: the country is now trying to gain a foothold in Africa, and it needs a crystal clear reputation.

And Russia remains the winner, regardless of whether sanctions are imposed. The choice is simple: either the Navy gets new helicopter carriers, or Paris pays a huge fine.

As for the berth for the Mistral in Vladivostok, it will not be empty: even if the French UDC does not get to the Pacific Fleet, it is still planned to deploy a compound of other ships in Ulysses Bay.
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  1. artist-mamluk
    artist-mamluk 20 March 2014 08: 00
    +7
    Yes, and with this Mistral. Personally, I do not need him.
    1. Metal
      Metal 20 March 2014 08: 06
      +59
      He needs paratroopers. In general, I think that if the West imposes all these sanctions, then the country will experience a boom in the development of industry and agriculture. So it’s a question of who will win and who will lose.
      1. tilovaykrisa
        tilovaykrisa 20 March 2014 09: 29
        +14
        If the embezzlers from the defense and land shoot and officials step on the quayside, and finally begin to finally finance the village and central regions instead of subsidies for the Caucasus, then BUM will be real, and nothing will actually change.
        The frogmen, even if they lose the court, will be delayed for years with the payment of fines, we also paid Iran not in a year or even two.
      2. Good cat
        Good cat 20 March 2014 09: 51
        +9
        In another article they wrote that for 2 boats Russia should pay 1 billion euros. when building at our shipyards with this money it was possible to build 4 ships (data from the article). So maybe you should be happy?
      3. 222222
        222222 20 March 2014 11: 34
        +6
        ..Mistral. it seems. capacity = 450 marines + 13 tanks ..

        .""Moscow. March 19. INTERFAX.RU - Employees of the French defense company DCNS and the STX shipyard in Saint-Nazaire are concerned about reports of the possibility of suspending the supply of Mistral helicopter carriers to Russia, the Parisian newspaper Le Figaro writes on Wednesday.

        "Saint-Nazaire has been alarmed since French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius suggested on Monday that the sale of Mistrals to Russia could be questionable," the newspaper writes.

        One of the newspaper's interlocutors working on these ships expressed regret that "politics and events in Ukraine have an impact on the work of the shipyard."

        Le Figaro notes that, according to experts, the refusal to complete the contract with the Russian Federation will directly jeopardize 600 jobs in France. In addition, it will significantly reduce DCNS revenue.

        According to the newspaper, at present France has received from Russia more than half the amount of 1,2 billion euros for helicopter carriers. In the case of a decision not to deliver two ships currently under construction in France, it will be necessary to compensate Moscow for this refusal of contractual obligations.
        "Who will pay for this? The state. And therefore, the French taxpayers," the newspaper writes.
        In addition, in the event of a cancellation of the contract, France will be forced to abandon the plan, which provides for the future possibility of its participation in the work on two more Mistral helicopter carriers in Russia.

        At the same time, Le Figaro emphasizes that in Paris, perhaps, they will still not refuse the deal with Mistrals. In particular, Fabius himself stressed that "so far this (about the refusal to supply the Mistral. - IF) is not being discussed."
        See the original material at http://www.interfax.ru/world/365893
        1. Dictator
          Dictator 20 March 2014 17: 07
          +2
          For that fought for it and ran. Recently, they are sorely lacking in brains ...
        2. gigiperfetto
          gigiperfetto 21 March 2014 00: 25
          0
          .ui, monsieur. You have Mi.srali, .ui, .ui !!! belay (something google translator doesn't work) repeat
      4. Kuvabatake
        Kuvabatake 20 March 2014 11: 53
        +8
        How interesting is a summer yacht for our paratroopers? She is even afraid of thin ice.
        1. waisson
          waisson 20 March 2014 21: 27
          +2
          in the winter, she will put the truckloads on an air cushion and all the crowd behind smelt laughing -WE NEED TO CREATE YOURSELF so that we do not depend on anyone - soldier
      5. washi
        washi 20 March 2014 15: 40
        +2
        Quote: Metall
        Paratroopers need him

        Where do we want to land?
        Japan, Korea?
        We will take them peacefully.
        1. galser
          galser 20 March 2014 16: 36
          +4
          Russia will not fight with anyone. Takes all peacefully.
          1. Hitrovan07
            Hitrovan07 20 March 2014 19: 46
            +4
            and most importantly polite wink
        2. Bosk
          Bosk 20 March 2014 20: 23
          0
          But don’t have to land, just the presence of a pair of such ships, say in the Baltic, will not badly contribute to diplomacy with some countries of that region, especially if these boats are not intrusively looming near the coast of these countries ...
          1. dmitriygorshkov
            dmitriygorshkov 21 March 2014 06: 33
            0
            Quote: Bosk
            a pair of such ships, say in the Baltic, will not badly contribute to diplomacy with some countries of that region

            Have you read the article? They will not be able to walk in the Baltic!
      6. Baloo
        Baloo 20 March 2014 19: 19
        +5
        I’m a civilian, I don’t understand:
        1.Air-cushion landing craft that immediately fly to a 2-meter shore and a rod through small forests and bushes — a sufficient number of them, operational costs and tactical capabilities — better or worse?
        2.Where are guarantees that the tsruli will not lay the tab and at one o’clock the warships will not become troughs?
        3. Is it an offensive weapon or a defensive one?
        4. At what distance from the coast can landing begin and at what maximum wavelength?
        5.Kakva effectiveness of own air defense of mistral from low-flying targets such as sea-sea, coast-sea, air-sea?
        1. Ptah
          Ptah 20 March 2014 21: 34
          +1
          1. Those SVPs are not so SEAWORTHY, and have very little autonomy. Therefore, they can be ranked as "defensive" (a very imprecise term).
          2. All the fuss just flared up due to the fact that the "custodians" refused to supply electronics, hoping that ours would be rattled and "sent to the printer." In iron sides and deck and bilge mechanisms, it is problematic to insert the "tab".
          3. More towards "offensive". see item 1.
          4. Two (?) Landing boats are placed in the docking chamber of this mastodon, which in turn are capable of delivering two bets with a crew ashore.
          Distance is not that important, the main air cover is by helicopters based on the Mistra.
          Judging by the side height of these boats, the wave is not more than 1.5-2 m.
          5. Efficiency is slightly greater than nothing. Therefore, it is imperative that other types of ships exist in the grouping. Common modern formation practice.

          Quote: Balu
          sea-sea, coast-sea, air-sea?

          Especially the "coast-sea" smiled. laughing Thanks! Patent the name urgently. Prior to that, ground-to-ground was always used, even if airborne launches.
          And the "air-sea" generally knocked under the table .....
          I remembered ...

          “Your surface-to-air missiles are good at getting into AIR.
          Request to send surface-to-air missiles
          belay

          Here is a little more detailed. Although about "Juan Carlos", but they are the same type. There are interesting pictures.

          http://topwar.ru/19794-glavnyy-konkurent-mistralya.html
          1. philip
            philip 21 March 2014 06: 58
            +1
            I went to your link. Perplexed? Do we need this custody or where?
            1. Ptah
              Ptah 21 March 2014 09: 25
              0
              And these issues have been dealt with for three years now. Different spices and not really. You can search yourself if you wish. And read the opinions.
              I have already repeatedly explained my position (even yesterday, on this thread).
              The only thing I can add. It’s good that we stopped only at two, instead of the planned 4.
              It's too late to cut in the back - let them be. One at the Pacific Fleet, the other at the Black Sea Fleet
      7. dustycat
        dustycat 20 March 2014 20: 31
        +4
        Quote: Metall
        He needs paratroopers.

        Paratroopers need an ice class.
        The war is not only in the summer.
        And in Russia, the winter period is officially 8 months.
        The question is much more interesting.
        These Mistrals are sawn under our control systems (yes I know - not quite so Russian, but not standard for Mistrals).
        Who will buy them with this system ?!
        So we are only talking about delaying the supply.
        What could be in favor for Russia - the pier for the Mistrals will not do all one on time - so this will only benefit.

        Quote: Metall
        In general, I think that if the West imposes all these sanctions, then the country will experience a boom in the development of industry and agriculture.

        But that's for sure.
        Zunzwang SGA and the EU.
      8. waisson
        waisson 20 March 2014 21: 23
        0
        Marines need it and paratroopers need planes
        1. philip
          philip 21 March 2014 07: 03
          0
          Cho MP are not people. too, by what we can.
      9. timer
        timer 21 March 2014 00: 11
        0
        I don’t need such a landing ship. This is nonsense. And defense officials who are involved in this deal are under trial with confiscation of property for causing damage to the country !!
    2. Hamul
      Hamul 20 March 2014 09: 42
      +9
      When France unilaterally cancels the Misral agreement with the Russian Federation, the military and military-industrial complex will have a new state holiday in the Russian Federation.

      And the dictator Putin’s rating among the illegitimate people of Russia will grow even more.
      1. donavi49
        donavi49 20 March 2014 11: 16
        +10
        POGHOSYAN will pour Champagne - for even more Su-30MKI. The Rafali have not been signed yet, and if there is a recall of the Mistrals, the Indians will stop the contract for the Rafals.

        It's simple:
        They have disputes with Pakistan, and if in the event of another mess, the world community considers Pakistan to be right, then Rafali and Mistral can stop it. That is, France for India is also becoming an unreliable supplier, unlike Russia.
    3. Rustam
      Rustam 20 March 2014 11: 13
      +23
      On the situation with our UDC I would like to comment and voice my position

      Many watchmen know and with many we discussed the issue of purchasing these UDCs for the Navy - my position is known, from the very beginning I advocated for this project - and the situation as well as the position of France upsets me (mainly the clown of Hollande)

      after all, as I know, French companies that Sagem, Thales, DCNS, Bolle, GK PRO are opposed to breaking up relations, but again, but Oland runs like a dog after a master-sorry

      there are two options

      - make noise (pretending) and when to settle down continue to work

      - they will break the contract (unlikely) but nevertheless, then I think workers with STX will stuff the remaining 15% of the rating to one person in one place — I will be upset, but no more.

      PS-For everyone, my position. Crimea is more important than any foreign technology, even the most advanced, any mutually beneficial relations, this is a matter affecting our state of the Russian Federation.
      1. Ascetic
        Ascetic 20 March 2014 11: 42
        +8
        Quote: Rustam
        make noise (pretending) and when to settle down continue to work


        Here, one should rather agree with Rogozin.

        "The television statements of French Foreign Minister Fabius about Russian-French military-technical cooperation are surprising. All these political waves around the referendum in Crimea will soon pass, and our countries will have to work together further,"
        "Either fulfill your contractual obligations and deliver the ships on time, or return the money and stern parts collected at our Baltzavod!"

        link

        1. Rustam
          Rustam 20 March 2014 11: 56
          +6
          Ascetic
          Here, one should rather agree with Rogozin.


          Hi colleague. 80% sure that they will make noise and calm down, because contracts for hundreds of millions, and billions in all areas of the military-technical cooperation, and I repeat my words France is the key that will give, and gives our ICC the opportunity for further development.
          we also know that already some generals of our military-industrial complex are rubbing their hands that it will be possible to work as under Ivanov and K.

          The same situation with the Germans in Mulino — but we can’t exclude the bad option — Crimea is more important than any contracts and contacts; here it’s already a political and vital matter for our country.
          1. dmitreach
            dmitreach 20 March 2014 22: 07
            +2
            Rustam, Ascetic, I strongly greet you. Like Rustam, I would like to voice my position. I have ALWAYS supported this expensive contract. Because of the controversy around THIS topic - I registered on this site two years ago ... February 10th. Time is running fast ... Time has confirmed my position. The Navy is a consequence of the country's policy. Not the other way around. Mistral, NOT FULFILLING ANY combat duty, made a split in the monolith (not yet) "NADO". Look how their 30 francs are closer to their bodies. Than an overseas suzerain. What are the sanctions? What are we talking about?

            PS
            My first comment on the site (sorry, heartfelt that I quote myself repeat ):
            dmitreach RU 10 February 2012 12:47 | West wind. Overview of the UDC type "Mistral"
            Comrades, maybe there will be enough articles in the spirit of "vsepolymerspro ****"?
            The fleet is not being built - the guard, treason! Under construction - the same picture.
            Even this site is full of articles with vivid reviews of the situation in the military-industrial complex. From which it follows unequivocal: the patient is alive!
            So, why Russia Sevastopol (had in mind the name of the second DVKD)? Arguments for:

            1. Russia is not the USSR - the world is not going to throw caps over it. For people keen on the topic of the fleet, it is well known that there is no rational spending of funds on the Soviet fleet. On the motley types of ships, insanely expensive to maintain, and sometimes without a home - a marina. (TAVKR in the raid) Yes, and machines for the production of certain types of submarines were purchased in Japan. (separate spy theme)
            2. Domestic shipyards are loaded with orders for the very gateway. There are currently no slipways for the Mistral bookmark.
            3. Build their own BDK, NATO project 11711 - Ivan Gren. It is planned 6 in a series, but 2 to master - hard. In addition to these ships, much more is being built at domestic shipyards. WORKERS (qualified) are not enough!
            4. In connection with the procurement program of the French DVKD, the idea of ​​building a shipyard on the island of Kotlin is considered. In any case, the government has pledged huge funds for the re-equipment of the shipbuilding industry. What the other day told Dmitry Rogozin.
            5. Created on the fragments of the USC industry. Who will say that this is bad?
            6. Mutually beneficial cooperation with France, as a member of NATO, and even in the military sphere, undermines the bloc, makes it not monolithic. Not only a factory for the production of thermal imagers in fr. Licenses built in Russia. Avionics for export SU and MIG - French. Kura is a multi-billion dollar project. Verdict - to be friends with the French, to develop joint projects.
            7. The next two ships will be built with the great participation of specialists from Russia, with the involvement of Russian production facilities.
            1. dmitreach
              dmitreach 20 March 2014 22: 10
              +1
              Is such a ship needed at the level of the concept of fleet development? A lot of keyboards are pulled over the monitor in the process of a dispute ... However, in my opinion the question is children's. For Needed.
              1. There were projects of such a ship. (Ivan Rogov - 3 ships, Kherson- "Ivan Tarrava") "Similar" - it is said with a stretch, because the concept of DKVD with azipods is a new topic, not 70-80s of the last century. You need to develop an idea.
              The number of countries with ships of this class is growing, how many Empires with colonies are among them?
              2. Russia does not wage colonial wars - speculation on the topic, hysteria about anything. Let me explain. Has Russia decreased to the borders of Muscovy? In past years, the 775 project was not used as a dry cargo ship for the needs of the Pacific Fleet, to supply Sakhalin Kamchatka, the Kuril Islands? Maybe bridges were built there to supply cars with transport? He did not evacuate ambassadors with their families from "countries with a friendly regime". "Friends" did not supply military-industrial complex products? Have you already merged as the world's gendarme? Did the Cypriot authorities detain a ship going to Syria with Russian weapons? France does not use its DVKD in humanitarian missions for the country's prestige? Therefore, this is a separate topic; because sometimes it seems to me that more than half of its life "Sevastopol" will spend "under the flag of the Ministry of Emergencies", in places of humanitarian disasters.
              3. Trolling NATO mongrels is very pleasant. It is not an easy task "Sevastopol" - the second in the series for Russia. Who just from the "*** ram on the fan" is not thrown into the circle of this deal. politics is a delicate thing, you need to be able to troll.
              4. The infrastructure for basing these ships will be built. No one says that they will exhaust the resource in the raid. And this again, jobs.
              5. Any specialized KB will increase intellectual work on adapting ship systems to the existing range of weapons of domestic production. By the way, and the construction of new vehicles for the DVKD camera dock. Who said that only the French will build? Who said that Eurofighters and Cougars have already been purchased? Who claims that the equipment and means of landing will be only French? All this is a miserable drive and hysteria!
              6. I have long wanted to throw a stone at our military-industrial complex because it is far from holy. Yes, they steal there. Yes, the attempt to be the "navel of the earth" for the MO has failed. Already ray Taburetkin, poking with a stick, in the growing asses, schemers from the military-industrial complex, than another Hitler. Anyone willing to argue? Under the rule of Taburetkin, the fleet began to resemble the only submarine in Ukraine? Does the shipbuilding industry resemble the Nikolaev shipyard? Let's judge honestly, by deeds. There is not an unambiguous attitude towards Taburetkin, but if it does not become that he is the best in recent decades ...
              7. Loading of the Kamov enterprise by additional orders.
              8. Staff training by NATO experts. If you can’t steal, buy it.
              9. I foresee a competition among young officers for serving in these pelvis. Curiosity is a tasty dish.
              1. dmitreach
                dmitreach 20 March 2014 22: 11
                0
                10. Why do they usually talk about ferries, relegating Zenith-9 and SIC-21 to the background? If you can’t steal, buy it. Who believes that Russia has succeeded in communications technology? I don’t want to remember about 888. Do you think the fleet is better?
                11. Azipods Vrtsil we certainly do better than the Finns. And in general we have no problems with ship engines and never had. Kuzya, who goes with a tug according to the principle: "Tamara and I go as a couple" is a vivid evidence of this. The rescue tug, project 5757, "FOTIY KRYLOV", "NIKOLAY CHIKER", was also built by us, without the participation of the Finns. And most importantly, they built them so that they would simply get rid of the extra dough.
                12. Who else lives in a thermonuclear conflict? Is there a cellar in the garden area from nuclear bombs? Let me tell you a secret: in the middle of the last century, on the Bikini Atoll (Marshall Islands), many nuclear tests were carried out. I remember July 1, 46, when an atomic bomb was dropped on 73 decommissioned warships. Or Operation Crossroads and the 27-ton Battleship Arkansas, which stood up as a "candle", i.e. VERTICAL, from the explosion. If you want, you can google on YouTube and watch a newsreel. By the way, ironically, the bomb was next to the landing ship, the remains of which were not found AT ALL! Do you still think that a ship must withstand an atomic explosion? By the way, the other day there was an interesting article "Kamikaze and P-000" Granite ". I will add a thought to the article: nowadays battleships are not being built. After several incidents at sea, they decided to limit themselves to strengthening the casemates and vital compartments of the ship, but not at the expense of" tank armor " ...
                12. The fleet is the greatness of the power of the state. An interesting article "Our ships were better", which provides research by American experts on the topic: "the projection of force into the surrounding space." Simply put, a warship is not always needed for its intended purpose, and even more so for a nuclear war! For there are more political movements than wars, and words need to be backed up by the fleet. Although, in real life, there are a lot of situations in which the military fleet carries out humanitarian missions. Do you seriously believe that Sevastopol will be fired upon with rockets? If this happens, other types of weapons will start talking and then Bikini Atoll will be on a different scale. Until this happens, the Russian Navy has other tasks besides being part of the strategic nuclear forces.

                "Sevastopol" - to be Russian!


                I remain in my opinion.

                ZYY. it’s a pity that Ivan will not be bubbled into the series. At least in the form in which they plan to finish it. It is a pity that there will be no shipyard on Father Kotlin. At least at the moment, the decision has been revised. NOT being accepted into the list of the fleet, this steam has already made a rustle.
    4. Rus2012
      Rus2012 20 March 2014 14: 05
      +1
      Quote: artist-mamluk
      Yes, and with this Mistral. Personally, I do not need him.


      France threatened to terminate the agreement on the sale of two UDC "Mistral" to the Russian Navy.

      the position of the article is not entirely correct - not "terminate" but "slow down" the implementation of the Agreement. Although failure to meet the deadline will also be punished ...
    5. The comment was deleted.
    6. siberalt
      siberalt 20 March 2014 19: 57
      +1
      And what is so worried! Their capitalists are no better than ours. They will figure it out. laughing
    7. waisson
      waisson 20 March 2014 21: 22
      +1
      and I was always against the pore
  2. Commander
    Commander 20 March 2014 08: 01
    +10
    Well, what for this scrap metal is not necessary! Military equipment must be Russian!
    They want to punish themselves - let them punish!
    1. La-5
      La-5 20 March 2014 08: 39
      +8
      Of course, domestic technology should be a priority, but foreign technology should not be disdain. Remember - the Russian Empire and the USSR had many ships of foreign construction.
    2. galser
      galser 20 March 2014 16: 51
      +1
      I agree the technique should be Russian but TECHNOLOGIES partners need to control))
  3. Altona
    Altona 20 March 2014 08: 02
    +5
    In fact, it would be better to lay ice class vessels at the shipyards than this colonial pelvis, which still requires guarding ships ...
  4. sergey32
    sergey32 20 March 2014 08: 16
    +7
    Maybe I'm behind the times. Has a decision on Iran’s lawsuit against Russia been made and a huge fine paid?
    1. upasika1918
      upasika1918 20 March 2014 12: 01
      +15
      The author is not in the subject. And on the Mistrals, and on deliveries to Iran. Iran will receive its facilities. And bargaining with him is no easier than with the Westerners. This is not a commodity-money exchange. There are a bunch of related items, secret items, mutual obligations and concessions, promises and refusals. Plus cash transactions - where, who, how, in what currency, credit lines, on what conditions and guarantees. Personnel training and technical support. Copy protection. Copyright agreement. Patent Agreement. Coordination by location. Dates and number of inspections. And also translators, specialists, curators of SIR, wives, relatives, gifts, signs of attention and just bribes. According to the Mistrals: The matter is so dark and muddy that it is better for everyone to stall and not to spoil their reputation. And Serdyukov is not that figure. And Minister Fabius did not say anything to the ears of GDP. Only that which is intended for the public. By themselves, these ships are just the tip of the iceberg. Reducing a deal to commonplace kickbacks is for hollow-bones. Such deals have been promoted for years, and the real effect is given after years, in the second and third stages. Spelled out on separate papers, signed by serious uncles.
  5. Rostovchanin
    Rostovchanin 20 March 2014 08: 17
    +5
    It is easy to imagine how many billions can be demanded from France. The cost of the deal between Moscow and Paris is almost two times higher than in the case of Iran. Accordingly, compensation payments will be much more.

    With this money, Russia will be able to build several ships capable of competing with the Mistrals on an equal footing, but at the same time suitable for operation in the seas washing its shores.

    .... it was a multi-trip trip ... ours decided it was easy to cut the dough according to the example of the Iranians .... they paid 1 billion ... they will return 8 billion through the court .... and they will do a dozen Rogovs ....
    1. PSih2097
      PSih2097 20 March 2014 18: 00
      +8
      Quote: Rostovchanin
      and a dozen Horny do ....

      Then it is better to modify the project 11780 "Ivan Tarava" for the current realities ...




      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. siberalt
        siberalt 20 March 2014 20: 03
        0
        Yeah. A barge with a motor or steam for transporting cars for sale. In such barges, Russians drowned their political opponents at the beginning of the 20th century. Very sorry. But this is a story.
  6. PLO
    PLO 20 March 2014 08: 21
    +3
    but some still consider the Mistral contract to be a good idea, even more so do not mind buying anything else abroad request

    and all warnings that it was bad to depend on foreign suppliers were overlooked.
    even the talk of a possible refusal of supplies at the official level in principle discredits such projects ..
    1. saturn.mmm
      saturn.mmm 20 March 2014 10: 58
      +6
      Quote: olp
      but some still consider the Mistral contract a good idea

      It was more a political move, after the crisis of 2008 the situation at the shipyard was not brilliant, in order to survive the crisis and conclude a contract, it seems like everyone is well-Russia gets ships and the shipyards survive the crisis and good relations between the countries.
      As they say, no good deed goes unpunished.
  7. mamont5
    mamont5 20 March 2014 08: 22
    +2
    Since technology did not work, why did he need Russia. Let them choke, only the money will be returned.
    1. Aleksys2
      Aleksys2 20 March 2014 10: 29
      +4
      Quote: mamont5
      Let them choke, only the money will be returned.

      And not only money, I remind you that the feed was made in Russia, let it also be returned.
      1. Igool
        Igool 21 March 2014 01: 04
        +2
        In addition, and forfeit is a holy thing. Give and not sin
  8. terrible
    terrible 20 March 2014 08: 23
    +2
    :) It is exemplary to catch up with all these Peugeot, Renault and Citroen under the windows of the French embassy, ​​and crush it with a tractor. cars are still so-so :)
  9. dobrik10
    dobrik10 20 March 2014 08: 23
    +3
    One of the most unsuccessful and unnecessary purchases of our country, it is clear that it was more political than a strategic deal and this is even more offensive.
    This should not be the case in government procurement of weapons.
  10. Terrible ensign
    Terrible ensign 20 March 2014 08: 33
    +1
    So in 2011, when the signing took place, I thought that some fornication ...
    Neither clear goals, nor a well-thought-out use strategy (the force is still projected by the AOG, and not by helicopter carriers, although it (AUG) is drowned with the help of nuclear submarines or missile cruisers, but this is the case in the case of a big war) ... So the French are now started ...
    It is necessary to correctly make it clear to them that those who bustle in the long term are sent to all known addresses with the introduction of judicial sanctions and contractual costs.
  11. cahekmosa
    cahekmosa 20 March 2014 08: 34
    +1
    nafig Mistrals, and let it be better for the "Grenov" to pay for fines (if they bring him)
    1. beige
      beige 20 March 2014 09: 04
      +4
      Quote: cahekmosa
      nafig Mistrals, and let it be better for the "Grenov" to pay for fines (if they bring him)

      That's exactly "if they bring it." There is money, but there is not enough capacity. All shipyards are loaded for years to come.
      1. saturn.mmm
        saturn.mmm 20 March 2014 11: 00
        +1
        Quote: sand
        That's exactly "if they bring it."

        With "Gren" it is necessary to bring the brains of customers. If only they knew what they wanted.
      2. aleks 62
        aleks 62 20 March 2014 16: 03
        +6
        As for the shipyards, you are wrong ... There was an article on this site - how much and why ... So it says that there is no full load ... Well, if you really need it, then you are welcome to Crimea - 2 plants (Kerch and Feodosia) are idle ...
        1. Ptah
          Ptah 20 March 2014 16: 57
          0
          Quote: aleks 62
          We ask for favors in Crimea - 2 factories (Kerch and Theodosius) are idle ...

          A displacement will allow? Take a look at the acceptable sizes that allow you to collect the mentioned stocks.
          Hulls for Class III ships - yes. And above - additional power is needed.
          The only thing that was was in NIKOLAEV. In what condition - I guess.
          Not for nothing that the article also mentions a pier under construction for this monster.
          As an option, you can finish building at the Finnish shipyards. They are idle, but there are no orders for super-liners (tourists).
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. aleks 62
      aleks 62 20 March 2014 16: 00
      +1
      That's for sure ... As far as I know, the BDK takes 300 infantry and about a dozen tanks ... On the deck you can also put 3-4 verta pieces ... It will be both cheaper and more practical ... Both in quantity and in quality ..
      1. PSih2097
        PSih2097 20 March 2014 18: 14
        +1
        Quote: aleks 62
        That's for sure ... As far as I know, the BDK takes 300 infantry and about a dozen tanks ... On the deck you can also put 3-4 verta pieces ... It will be both cheaper and more practical ... Both in quantity and in quality ..

  12. _SeaMan_
    _SeaMan_ 20 March 2014 08: 43
    +5
    I wonder what kind of .. they shove these ships? They were built to order and under our armament, you have to redo something again. Let them take it ...
  13. svskor80
    svskor80 20 March 2014 08: 49
    +3
    Serdyukov must be tortured at the stake in order to find out how much money the French gave him to buy ships abroad. The ships themselves, even if not immediately, but they would have found their place in the fleet, but why they did not build their own, no one explained. Now is a "unique" chance to elegantly get rid of the problem, as they say you yourself did not want. Let the United States buy and exploit.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. siberalt
      siberalt 20 March 2014 20: 07
      +1
      It seems that Serdyukov is only a performer. And a hair will not fall from him for this. laughing
  14. Dimkin
    Dimkin 20 March 2014 08: 53
    +1
    Monsieur Oland, keep these Mistrals for yourself, return only the money.
  15. poccinin
    poccinin 20 March 2014 08: 54
    +3
    Well, if such a thing. then let the ships take themselves and RUSSIA RETURN MONEY! we ourselves will build what we need.
  16. Horst78
    Horst78 20 March 2014 09: 04
    +2
    The fact is that foreign helicopter carriers are not adapted for Russian-made helicopters, which, upon landing on deck, increase the height of the ship. The ship from this becomes less stable.
    This is generally how to understand?
    increase the height of the vessel
    In physics, it seems like with an increase in mass, the body is immersed in water. Helicopter what? Does it sit on the top of the mast? what
    1. pv1005
      pv1005 20 March 2014 09: 24
      0
      In the same I wanted to ask.
      1. Pivowar
        Pivowar 20 March 2014 09: 55
        +2
        Obviously, the author was referring to the metacentric height of the vessel. With an increase in metacentric height, the stability of the vessel decreases, which contributes to capsizing during heavy rolling. But all this can be compensated by additional equipment for an additional fee, respectively, and a decrease in internal volumes.
      2. Mhpv
        Mhpv 20 March 2014 10: 06
        +4
        If you talk like that, then how should the aircraft carrier sausage during takeoff and landing? request
        And Iran did not hear that such a fine (exactly) was paid, Iran itself claimed that it was not the money that was important to it, but the fulfillment of the contract.
        In general, it’s time to write articles with the Mistrals. There is a contract, money paid, everything else is an empty concussion. We need them, we don’t need to argue too late, we will hold summits on them and bring cars from Japan laughing , next time they will think seven times before buying once. hi
        1. aleks 62
          aleks 62 20 March 2014 16: 20
          +2
          Aircraft carrier and sausage .. With a strong storm, he does not take and does not let out planes ... They also have pitching dampers (gyroscopes and active dampers, such fins on the underwater part that constantly deviate and keep it within certain limits). the larger the vessel (and the aircraft carriers are 60-80 thousand tons), the less responsive it is to the wave ... A simple example is a pleasure boat and, for example, a BMRT trawler ... In the same weather conditions, the first winds. and the second barely sways ...
        2. PSih2097
          PSih2097 20 March 2014 18: 17
          +1
          Quote: mhpv
          And Iran did not hear that such a fine (exactly) was paid, Iran itself claimed that it was not the money that was important to it, but the fulfillment of the contract.

          they Antey 2500 (S-300V) stuffed instead of S-300P ...
    2. ARS56
      ARS56 20 March 2014 10: 30
      +2
      "In physics, it seems like when the mass increases, the body is immersed in water."
      There is a pitching at sea! Increasing the height of the ship (not the ship it!) And the center of mass reduces dynamic stability.
      The height of the upper deck of the Misral was increased for our helicopters. When landing on the upper deck, which is higher than that of the French, the deck of our heavier helicopters and the stability of the ship decreases.
      1. Mhpv
        Mhpv 20 March 2014 11: 13
        +1
        Ship stability
        (ship)
        the ability of a ship brought out of equilibrium by the influence of external forces (waves, wind, etc.) to return to its original position again after the termination of these forces. It is one of the most important seaworthiness of the ship. Stability depends on the shape of the ship’s hull, cargo distribution and the completeness of filling the tanks with liquid cargo. The theory of the ship distinguishes between static stability associated with the action of slowly increasing forces (often referred to simply as stability) and dynamic stability. A measure of stability is metacentric height. Distinguish between longitudinal and transverse stability, as well as stability at small inclination angles (initial stability) and stability at large inclination angles.
        EdwART Explanatory Naval Dictionary, 2010

        Metacentric elevation of the Metacentre above the center of gravity of a floating body. M. c. serves as a measure of stability (See Stability) of a ship.
      2. Horst78
        Horst78 20 March 2014 12: 27
        0
        Quote: ARS56
        When landing on the upper deck - higher than that of the French, our deck heavier helicopters and there is a decrease in the stability of the vessel.
        I still do not understand how our 8 KA-52 with a total mass of 97,6t + 8 K29 with 92t. can affect the Mistral with a full displacement in 21300t.?
        1. Mhpv
          Mhpv 20 March 2014 14: 57
          0
          Quote: Horst78
          I still do not understand how our 8 KA-52 with a total mass of 97,6t + 8 K29 with 92t. can affect the Mistral with a full displacement in 21300t.?

          No way?
          What are they building there?
          Everything has been calculated for a long time.
        2. aleks 62
          aleks 62 20 March 2014 16: 24
          0
          If the "Mistral" had a mast 100m high, then it would be enough for it to roll over, probably 10 tons tied to the top of the mast ... This physics is a shoulder, a lever ...
          1. Mhpv
            Mhpv 21 March 2014 12: 00
            0
            Quote: aleks 62
            If "Mistral" had a mast 100m high

            If only, would it be enough! Enough to carry nonsense and fantasize about flipping the "Mistral" or are you smarter than the designers?
            How sausages in a storm I know without you, and without sedatives
            Quote: aleks 62
            A simple example is a walking boat and, for example, a BMRT trawler ... In the same weather conditions, the first winders. and the second barely sways ...

            And this comparison is from the category of "compared ..... with a finger"
            Compare "Mistral" and "George Bush": length, width, height, draft and displacement and you will understand that they are proportional to each other, and in a big storm most ships try to take cover.
            And this video for thought:
    3. ARS56
      ARS56 20 March 2014 10: 30
      +2
      "In physics, it seems like when the mass increases, the body is immersed in water."
      There is a pitching at sea! Increasing the height of the ship (not the ship it!) And the center of mass reduces dynamic stability.
      The height of the upper deck of the Misral was increased for our helicopters. When landing on the upper deck, which is higher than that of the French, the deck of our heavier helicopters and the stability of the ship decreases.
    4. nerd.su
      nerd.su 20 March 2014 10: 38
      +5
      Maybe the author meant - the center of gravity rises? However, in the article, besides this, there are many controversial points. for example
      Paris will lose face and become an outcast not only in the east, but also in Europe itself. The loss of prestige will be an unbearable blow to French diplomacy: now the country is trying to gain a foothold in Africa, and it needs a crystal clear reputation.

      Do we have medieval Chinese concepts? Who in hypocritical Europe can be confused by some mythical "loss of face"? What is a "crystal clear reputation" for in Africa? Yes, if you are crystal clear in Africa - you do not give kickbacks - you are generally not interesting to Africans!
      The author refers to the Geneva Arbitration and Iran. So a decision against Russia is one thing, albeit in favor of Iran, and a completely different matter - a decision in favor of Russia against France, and even at a time when the entire "democratic" world is eager to punish us! Maybe the author believes in the independence of the court in the west? Naive schoolboy! Of course, in the end the money will be returned to us, maybe a fine will be counted in our favor. Years in 10.

      So we need to quickly pick up "Vladivostok" yourself. To copy the bow. And where will we go to the already built second stern? If the mistral really can't stand ice, it doesn't matter, a command ship is needed in the Mediterranean. And nothing more long-term in the West to order. Let the GRU bring secrets, so it is safer. Proven by the Cold War.
    5. aleks 62
      aleks 62 20 March 2014 16: 05
      +2
      ... The center of gravity is shifting up ... As the shipbuilders say, the metacentric height is growing ....
      1. Ptah
        Ptah 20 March 2014 17: 04
        +1
        Quote: aleks 62
        ... The center of gravity moves up ...

        I will add. Which entails an increase in the amplitude of this center during rolling. The consequences are not the most pleasant.
        In the best case, additional loads on the entire set, which requires its strengthening and, accordingly, an automatic increase in displacement. The circle is closed.
        As the most pessimistic apogee - overkill.
        1. PSih2097
          PSih2097 20 March 2014 18: 18
          +6
          Quote: Ptah
          Quote: aleks 62
          ... The center of gravity moves up ...

          I will add. Which entails an increase in the amplitude of this center during rolling. The consequences are not the most pleasant.
          In the best case, additional loads on the entire set, which requires its strengthening and, accordingly, an automatic increase in displacement. The circle is closed.
          As the most pessimistic apogee - overkill.

          I will throw a quote from an alternative ...
          Thanks for the information - I didn't have any sensible data on "Kremenchug" :)))

          And what about their alternative to Mistral ... Alas, the Kherson project cannot compete with Mistral. Mistral in comparison with Kherson has the following advantages:

          1) This is a FRENCH project (pronounce the word "French" loudly and with a breath).

          2) The Mistral is not adapted to the conditions of service in the North. But it is precisely such ships that we need on the Northern Fleet and Pacific Fleet!

          3) The Mistral is built according to the norms of civil shipbuilding. This is an unconditional progress in military shipbuilding.

          4) The Mistral is equipped with an innovative power plant (we all squeak with delight at the word "innovative", right?) - this is not old "Kherson"

          5) Our landing boats do not fit in the Mistral. This is saving!

          6) Unlike domestic aircraft carriers, Mistral cannot serve helicopters on the flight deck - they must be lowered into the hangar. This increases the preparation time for departure - and rightly, otherwise your head will feel dizzy to watch how these helicopters fly back and forth here.

          7) The speed of Mistral corresponds to the speed of the latest Russian battleships during the Russo-Japanese War. This is the continuity of our glorious maritime traditions!

          8) Mistral can not land armored vehicles on an unequipped coast. And rightly so - what should she do there? It will be more whole. Yes, and the landing form from Yudashkin to get dirty in all kinds of gullies is useless ... Ugly!
          1. Ptah
            Ptah 20 March 2014 18: 50
            0
            Sasha, thanks for the humor! I myself occasionally love (?) To do this ...
            Three years ago I became an ardent advocate of the Menstrual purchase project. As a fighter with a warhead-1 (navigator), I would be happy to operate such a colossus.
            Two years ago, I became an opponent of this "brick". I understood that the contract was signed for the sake of political concessions and as gratitude to Sarkozli for his position in relation to Ossetia and Abkhazia.

            A little later, after reading articles that describe in detail the technical characteristics and other ships of this class, I came to the final conclusions.
            1. A ship of this class is unambiguously needed for Russia, rushing to its former greatness on the oceans, but connected with the almost complete absence of an appropriate base for the rapid construction of such a displacement.
            2. There is a good alternative to "Menstrual" - this is Spanish "Juan Carlos 1"... I'm for buying a pair of these. Its advantages are obvious in comparison with the "guardian". From price to application.
            3. Once the deal has taken place, let it be. THIS IS STATUS. It allows you to develop management skills and find application as a floating hospital or ....
            Sanatorium for nostalgic demobilized sailors. belay laughing
            1. dmitreach
              dmitreach 20 March 2014 22: 31
              +3
              ... There is a good alternative to Menstrual - this is the Spanish Juan Carlos 1.

              Already discussed both up and down. The Spaniards are more dependent on O Merigi than France. Juan has a lot of American equipment and, as a result, is right to block the deal. The French are no longer technically dependent (e.g. CIUS). If not for the pro-Omery GunSS government and Charles Maurice De Talleyrand- Perigord (again a politician, albeit from the time of the Bourgeois revolution) - a coalition could be created with the French. The nightmare of the Anglo-Saxons.
      2. Mhpv
        Mhpv 21 March 2014 12: 04
        0
        The mass of helicopters on the deck is more than compensated by fuel, water and ballast tanks, plus landing boats and a bunch of any cargo that is closer to the waterline.
        If you are trying to convince me that we do not need the "Mistral", then I know this without you and do not defend this acquisition. I have already argued a lot on this topic, I don’t want to argue here anymore, but don’t talk nonsense about how it will roll over or something something like that, better give a real example when the "Mistral" turned over from the French over the years of operation.
  17. samoletil18
    samoletil18 20 March 2014 09: 10
    0
    All that was interesting was the electronic filling. I was sure that it was included in the ingredients of this expensive cake. And so in FIG it is needed! We will build our own UDC, and build already under the new mastered helicopters. The consequences of the anger are partially offset by France? Well, this is for the Crimean War, Russia will simply repay part of the debt.
  18. Vadim12
    Vadim12 20 March 2014 09: 16
    +1
    It must be terribly dumb to order trash that can not swim at the slightest ice crust !? Serdyuk and iPhone on a stupid count several times. am
  19. Crang
    Crang 20 March 2014 09: 22
    +4
    Mistrals are good ships. We must make sure that we get them. And we will get two ships capable of acting as a DC, command and staff ships, PLO cruisers and even light aircraft carriers. This is a powerful reinforcement for our fleet.
  20. Gagarin
    Gagarin 20 March 2014 09: 24
    +3
    Before I read the article, I already knew the comments before!
    Certainly LET THE SKE!
    A great case to return France to their trough.
  21. bvi1965
    bvi1965 20 March 2014 09: 55
    +1
    Quote: svskor80
    Serdyukov must be tortured at the stake in order to find out how much money the French gave him to buy ships abroad. The ships themselves, even if not immediately, but they would have found their place in the fleet, but why they did not build their own, no one explained. Now is a "unique" chance to elegantly get rid of the problem, as they say you yourself did not want. Let the United States buy and exploit.


    During the trial in the courts, it will come up anyway who rolled back how much and to whom.
  22. kind
    kind 20 March 2014 10: 07
    +1
    It takes a lot of time and effort to gain partners and reputation, but losing a trust takes just a minute. I do not mind the French, the people deserve that ruler, whom he himself chose. They want to flog themselves - let. In addition to same-sex relationships, they will introduce political masochism. In short perverts.
  23. ARS56
    ARS56 20 March 2014 10: 18
    -1
    Quote: Metall
    He needs paratroopers ....

    Please answer which paratroopers of which country and in what place they will be able to use the ship (it is impossible to call it a ship), which cannot be used even with a small ice cover? A ship ready to roll over with all its contents during the first small storm? The vessel will not even be able to leave the place of basing, because in Russia there is no ice-free quiet lake. And is this small flooded, but very expensive heliport, needed there?
    D.A. Medvedev, who initiated this purchase, must be imprisoned for embezzlement in order to pay for his show-offs and fined for the amount of damage caused to Russia.
    1. Crang
      Crang 20 March 2014 11: 05
      +6
      The design of the Mistral UDC is traditional for modern shipbuilding. And nothing is he ready to turn over. The architecture of the ship is roughly similar to the British light aircraft carrier Eagle. And all the shortcomings that you brought - believe me, they are characteristic of most of the domestic warships. Our armament will be supplied to him. Armor ... Well, you can hang it later. The ships themselves are needed. I was already tired of sailing on boats and watching films like "Sea Devils". This is something that our ocean-going nuclear missile fleet has become or what? Tough guys with machine guns on boats?
      1. Ptah
        Ptah 20 March 2014 17: 54
        +3
        Quote: Krang
        similar to the British light aircraft carrier Eagle

        Rather, the Spanish helicopter carrier "Juan Carlos I." The same type, but "Juan" is one and a half times cheaper, the Spanishis were ready to give up along with all the stuffing, but equipment for the Russian weapons systems was required.
        With their brick-like appearance, the Juan's deck allows aircraft to take off, which Menstrual does not.

        http://armyromantic.ru/tehnika/92_desantniy_korabl_s.htm
      2. PSih2097
        PSih2097 20 March 2014 18: 22
        +2
        Quote: Krang
        Armor ... Well, then it will be possible to hang.

        What are we going to bet? "knife", "relic" or "pin 5" ??? wassat
  24. de bouillon
    de bouillon 20 March 2014 10: 53
    0
    with the introduction of sanctions, money is not returned
    1. samoletil18
      samoletil18 22 March 2014 21: 20
      0
      Quote: de bouillon
      with the introduction of sanctions, money is not returned

      Judging by the Iranian lawsuit about the S-300, they are returning with a six-time bonus.
  25. abc_alex
    abc_alex 20 March 2014 10: 54
    +8
    Dear, you would look in the internet for a direct speech by Fabius :) And everything will fall into place.

    Firstly, he said that perhaps it would be considered within the framework of blah blah blah. Not canceled but considered and only possible! Do you feel the difference? :)
    Secondly, he also said that an indispensable condition for terminating the transaction would be ... the UK blocking the accounts of Russian oligarchs in its jurisdiction. This is just tough.

    You see, men, the French have a white fang for the British. :) And throwing poop across the English Channel for both of them is a national sport.
  26. Yuri11076
    Yuri11076 20 March 2014 11: 05
    +1
    Yes, imposing sanctions, breaking contracts, they think only as a fifth point. Their head is probably for another "and I also eat in it" :)
  27. Earnest
    Earnest 20 March 2014 12: 08
    +1
    Quote: bot.su
    Russia has the right to sue the Geneva Arbitration Court. It is easy to imagine how many billions can be demanded from France. The transaction value between Moscow and Paris is almost two times higher than in the case of Iran. Accordingly, compensation payments will be an order of magnitude larger.

    What kind of Geneva court will rule in favor of Russia? We will not roll out our lip - we would return our own in a bad version. But the message of the French is also understandable: "If so, then maybe someday."
    1. nerd.su
      nerd.su 20 March 2014 13: 23
      0
      Something you have with quoting is strange ... I did not say that.
  28. Berkut-UA
    Berkut-UA 20 March 2014 12: 15
    +1
    Quote: Aleksys2
    Quote: mamont5
    Let them choke, only the money will be returned.

    And not only money, I remind you that the feed was made in Russia, let it also be returned.

    And what is this quarter of the ship of Russia for?
    To finish building ... They will not
    It is better to have and build grandmother what is really necessary.
    1. valokordin
      valokordin 20 March 2014 12: 34
      +1
      Quote: Berkut-UA
      Quote: Aleksys2
      Quote: mamont5
      Let them choke, only the money will be returned.

      And not only money, I remind you that the feed was made in Russia, let it also be returned.

      And what is this quarter of the ship of Russia for?
      To finish building ... They will not
      It is better to have and build grandmother what is really necessary.

      Attach the stern to our other ship.
      1. PSih2097
        PSih2097 20 March 2014 18: 23
        +1
        Quote: valokordin
        Attach the stern to our other ship.

        to Gren ...
  29. valokordin
    valokordin 20 March 2014 12: 32
    +1
    Yes, do not frighten the paddlers with the consequences of abandoning the Mistral, it is only welcome. Let them take them for themselves.
  30. chunga-changa
    chunga-changa 20 March 2014 12: 34
    +1
    They declare not a refusal to deliver, but a suspension of implementation until Russia does something. And there is no ship and there is nothing to return the money for. And the failure to meet the deadlines will be carried out as "through the fault of the customer", because everything depends on Russia, do what they ask and it's in the bag. If you go through the court, then the proceedings are not at all a problem to drag out for years, the only ships are almost ready and the French will have to keep them in this state. But even in this case, I am sure there is a point in the contract at whose expense everything will happen, if "through the fault of the customer." In general, the only ones who will definitely profit from this contract are Jewish law firms.
  31. Bakansky
    Bakansky 20 March 2014 12: 41
    0
    yes, it’s not just that we buy them from storage, they will need them, they will need paratroopers, but you can build your own, of course, but this time
  32. Lelek
    Lelek 20 March 2014 12: 41
    +3
    The French would very much help us by canceling the Mistral order. This Serdyukovskiy trick costs us dearly with the apparent low usefulness of the product. And so - save money. fool
  33. Lone gunman
    Lone gunman 20 March 2014 12: 55
    0
    If the French do not change their minds, then we’ll hit below the belt — we will ban the export of frog legs to France.
  34. darksoul
    darksoul 20 March 2014 13: 00
    +1
    As the course of recent events shows, all the sticks that they throw us in the wheels, reel and the wheel is made even more. Keep up the good work, we will only become stronger
  35. w2000
    w2000 20 March 2014 13: 00
    0
    Russia has not paid Iran any penalty 4 billion - the author raves.
  36. Peacemaker
    Peacemaker 20 March 2014 13: 06
    +1
    chunga-changa (2) Today, 12:34
    They declare not to refuse delivery, but to suspend implementation until Russia does something. And there is no ship and no money

    But are there not penalties for late execution of the order? For anyone it will hit the face and prestige! Then order something from them ...
  37. Roman 1977
    Roman 1977 20 March 2014 15: 16
    +2
    And it will be good. Will go to the piggy bank of sanctions, take the place of something more substantial. Of course they will suspend. All will be. And then, when the Mistrals pass, they will give, although it would be better not to give. There are no economic sanctions and never will be. Cooperation with NATO, as well as especially the big eight, didn’t bother us anywhere. It’s Yeltsin’s tickled vanity, but Putin has BRIC, to which South Africa has also joined))) And you issue visas, imagine.
  38. donavi49
    donavi49 20 March 2014 15: 31
    +2
    The French were smarter than the Germans. FOUND THE BEST SOLUTION! That is, to fulfill the ORDER and if the wind blows in the wrong direction, then stay with the face and NATO allies.

    France will consider suspending the Mistral class warships in Russia in October 2014. According to Agence France-Presse, French Defense Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian said this.

    «The transfer of the first ship is scheduled for October, so the issue of suspension of supplies will be discussed in October”, The minister said.
    http://www.gazeta.ru/politics/news/2014/03/20/n_6026021.shtml


    That is, if there will be no escalation further than Crimea, and the topic will fade in the world by October, then Mistralki will put it. But if the topic does not fade, or the Liberation Campaign in Eastern Europe begins, then Mistralki will not deliver.


    By the way Sevastopol at the BALTZAVOD!
    1. Royaljib
      Royaljib 28 March 2014 22: 22
      0
      It would be nice to indicate the authorship of the photo, if you didn’t bother to ask the author for republishing
  39. rudolff
    rudolff 20 March 2014 15: 53
    +2
    The situation with the Mistrals is not at all as straightforward as it might seem and wave the penalties somewhat recklessly. As a general rule, international sanctions are force majeure circumstances that impede further performance of contractual obligations. Penalties, fines, penalties, interest, damages in such cases are not recoverable. Whether the announced sanctions are thereby force majeure is decided by a specific court. Therefore, rejoice prematurely.
    Requirements to return the stern of the ship can generally be considered as an unfortunate joke. The customer of its construction at the Baltic Plant was not us, but the French, and they were obliged to pay the cost of the work performed. From the moment of payment, this is their property.
    With the Iranian contract, everything is more complicated. We wanted to be white and fluffy in front of our "American partners" and refused to supply S-300 air defense systems to Iran, although they were not subject to sanctions regarding offensive weapons. That is why the chances of the Iranians winning a lawsuit against Russia, if they do not finally give up on it, are very high. The only legal lead we have against their claims is that the missiles of this complex are capable of hitting ground targets. However, the Iranians may reply that they did not order such an option.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Igool
      Igool 21 March 2014 01: 12
      +2
      There is no force majeure in this situation. In case of force majeure, the third force interferes with the benign performance of the contract. "an unpredictable event (for example, natural disaster, military operations, strikes, revolutions, etc.), not depending on the will of the parties involved in the transaction, but leading to the impossibility of fulfilling contractual obligations. "
      In this case, the threat of sanctions by France, i.e. direct dependence on the will of one of the parties
  40. Poppy
    Poppy 20 March 2014 16: 20
    +2
    Quote: bot.su
    Do we have medieval Chinese concepts? Who in hypocritical Europe can be confused by some mythical "loss of face"?

    so there’s nothing to lose there
  41. Poppy
    Poppy 20 March 2014 16: 22
    +2
    Quote: rudolff
    As a general rule, international sanctions are force majeure circumstances that impede further performance of contractual obligations.

    this is in the case of UN sanctions, and not unilateral sanctions as it is now
    1. rudolff
      rudolff 20 March 2014 17: 09
      +2
      From the point of view of our Foreign Ministry, yes, the sanctions are unilateral and illegal. From the point of view of France, Germany is applied within the framework of a package approved by the European Union, a recognized international organization. The situation is controversial and depends on the position of a particular judicial authority.
  42. 52
    52 20 March 2014 17: 04
    0
    Quote: Poppy
    Quote: bot.su
    Do we have medieval Chinese concepts? Who in hypocritical Europe can be confused by some mythical "loss of face"?

    so there’s nothing to lose there

    But what about the precious tolerant w ... true face?
  43. kafa
    kafa 20 March 2014 17: 06
    +1
    why is this super barge self-propelled at the price of an aircraft carrier? Papuans drive!
    we have no Papuans !!! Serdyuk wanted to buy floating warehouses for the tropics. repeat
  44. ankh-andrej
    ankh-andrej 20 March 2014 18: 00
    +1
    Then representatives of the Islamic Republic appealed to the international community to decide the dispute, and the trial ended in favor of Iran: Russia paid $ 4 billion to its partner.

    This is when Russia paid 4 lard? My question has not yet been resolved. What is the author driving here.
  45. Takashi
    Takashi 20 March 2014 19: 30
    +1
    I remember in any more or less competent contract for the supply of equipment - force majeure conditions (war, earthquakes, etc.) are prescribed under which the party responsible for the supply automatically withdraws all obligations.

    In the event of sanctions - do force majeure conditions ensue, do they actually refuse delivery ??
  46. Artem1967
    Artem1967 20 March 2014 20: 08
    +2
    The Mistrals are in the Black and Mediterranean Seas, not in Vladik. In the Pacific, more serious technology is needed. And to revive the Mishiko and the maydanutyh who have fallen off the chain - this is the very thing. The flag will also be displayed in Syria. Hollande himself probably did not understand what he blurted out. Or France has some extra money, then okay, let's help to part with them.
  47. Chifka
    Chifka 20 March 2014 20: 19
    +1
    Sorry for the stupid question, not special, but: landing the HELICOPTER on the HELICOPTER increases the height of the vessel (no matter what) and reduces its stability. Marked, as I understand it, as a flaw. Then what, in fact, should board a helicopter carrier? Hang gliders?
    1. yur
      yur 20 March 2014 22: 27
      +1
      Quote: Chifka
      Sorry for the stupid question, not special, but: landing the HELICOPTER on the HELICOPTER increases the height of the vessel (no matter what) and reduces its stability. Marked, as I understand it, as a flaw. Then what, in fact, should board a helicopter carrier? Hang gliders?
      No, not hang gliders. Just a small helicopter should be landing on a French helicopter carrier - a small French helicopter, and not our serious combat vehicles.
      1. The comment was deleted.
    2. dmitreach
      dmitreach 20 March 2014 22: 55
      +2
      This is utter nonsense, from the author of the article. in the style of that nonsense about fuels and lubricants, which allegedly are not produced in Russia.

      Also, helicopter carriers are not suitable for walking in ice - and this is a prerequisite for operation sudo in the northern latitudes. The design of the “Mistral” is such that they cannot go to sea even with a small ice cover, which makes them impossible to use in the Baltic Sea, the Pacific Ocean and even in the Black Sea basin


      Also nonsense. There is a concept "ice class". Etc.

      The author of the article, as a whole, wrote not badly, but certain places indicate NOT Possession of military subjects.
  48. thrower
    thrower 20 March 2014 21: 31
    0
    Good day to all !
    I would like to make my 5 kopecks on this issue.
    first, Russia does not have aircraft carriers and helicopter carriers, but at the same time, there is experience with the massive use of helicopter connections.
    second, the Mistral cannot walk on ice. And we need it, even if it's a no brainer that they will be used where there is no ice, but there is a powerful cover of naval formations from the coast (Black Sea, Mediterranean Sea, Caspian Sea).
    thirdly, they will not give us full computer support for them, but they will not follow how ours break their computer systems for controlling the battle.
    Are we really getting a little for this money?
  49. navodchik
    navodchik 20 March 2014 21: 42
    +1
    Something I have not heard about $ 4 billion paid to Iran. According to my information, Russia is proposing the replacement of C300 with Antei-2500
  50. typhoon7
    typhoon7 20 March 2014 21: 57
    +2
    Maybe I’ll say not quite the topic, but apart from "Mistral" we have their components in Sushki and MiGs. Also, if I'm not mistaken, they are taking part in the project of a promising armored personnel carrier, and this is probably not all. Today's political or some other trade benefit, tomorrow, when the situation aggravates (and these are our probable friends) can adversely affect the country's defense. Armament should be your own. Obama read out the new sanctions and they catch not only our officials and oligarchs, but also our banks, and if I understand our defense industry correctly. It's time to finally get down to business.
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 20 March 2014 22: 03
      +2
      Thales and KO in export Dryers and MiGs - in ours only in MiG-29K / UB for the Navy and that is because the Russian Navy did not want to change the board, but to do it as with the Indians (cheaper and already practiced).

      BTR Atom - development for the future and it has been in limbo since February.

      We have a good military-technical cooperation with TALES - but there the guys know how to count money, if they do something through TALES Holland, they seem to have experience similar to Africa’s ban on France’s radars.