Military Review

Why does Russia need three modifications Su-27

97
The expediency of procurement by the Russian Air Force of three modifications of the Su-27 fighter is questionable. This conclusion was made by Western experts of the Internet portal War Is Boring.


Why does Russia need three modifications Su-27


At the moment, Russia is manufacturing and purchasing three aircraft, which represent a deep modernization of the multipurpose heavy fighter Su-27 (Flanker according to NATO classification). They were developed by the Sukhoi Design Bureau and are manufactured at two different enterprises - the Komsomolsk-on-Amur Aviation Plant (KnAAZ) and the Irkutsk Aviation Plant of the Irkut Corporation. According to Western experts, this decision is quite strange and can lead to substantial financial costs. Currently, the US Air Force is seeking to get a single fighter in the framework of the concept of JSF (Joint Strike Fighter) - F-35 "Lightning-2" (Lightning II).

Representatives of this type of troops announced the need to purchase 1763 new aircraft to replace most of the fighters currently in service and to increase the combat potential of the Air Force. Russia, on the contrary, is currently acquiring three types of modern fighters - Su-30M2, Su-30SM and Su-35. The procurement volumes of each of the aircraft are tens of units. Russian Ministry of Defense does not explain fighter procurement principles aviationHowever, experts believe that this is due to the desire to maintain the functioning of the two enterprises amid declining volumes of export of military aircraft. Such a strategy, according to foreign experts, will have a positive impact on improving the combat qualities of the Russian Air Force, which largely consists of aircraft delivered to the troops in the 80–90s. While the latest fifth-generation fighter T-50 (PAK FA) became widely known both in Russia and abroad, the introduction of the Su-30M2, Su-30SM and Su-35 aircraft into the Air Force attracted less attention.

The first Russian Air Force received the Su-30М2 fighter. His photographs at the Krymsk airbase, located in the southern part of the Krasnodar Territory, were published in December 2011. In November, three Su-2013CM airplanes were transferred to Domna air base on 30. By the end of last year, a total of ten aircraft were delivered to this air base. The transfer of another ten cars is expected this year, with the result that the formation of an aviation regiment is fully completed. In February, the 2014 of the first Su-35С fighters were transferred to the 23 fighter aviation regiment based at the Dzemgi airbase in the Khabarovsk Territory. According to experts, the Su-30М2 fighter, the first to be commissioned by the Russian Air Force, is the least perfect of all three aircraft. It is a development of the Su-30MKK model developed by KnAAZ for China. Su-30MKK, in turn, is considered a modernization of the Su-30 and is inferior to the Su-30MK fighter produced by Irkut Corporation. Su-30MKK equipped with equipment for refueling in the air and Russian avionics, allowing you to perform a wide range of combat missions. However, it is inferior to the Su-30MK, since it is not equipped with front horizontal tail unit (AIP) and aircraft engines with a deflected thrust vector. Some time later, KnAAZ received a contract for the supply of the PRC of the Su-30MK2 aircraft, which can use anti-ship armament.

This fighter was then sold to Vietnam, Indonesia, Venezuela and Uganda. The main external feature of the Su-30MKK / MK2 and Su-30М2 export aircraft for the Russian Air Force are two tail keels with a flat upper edge. The first order for the production of Su-30М2 for the Russian Air Force was received in the summer of 2009. These aircraft have much in common with a single-seat fighter with improved Su-27CM3 avionics, which also produces KnAAZ, and first-generation Su-27 aircraft. The Ministry of Defense ordered four Su-30М2 fighters and twelve Su-27М3 fighters. Experts suggest that double planes will support single in the course of training and combat missions, and possibly as an all-weather fighter. At the moment, the total volume of orders for Su-30М2 fighters is about 20 machines. Four aircraft were delivered to December 2013. Su-30CM, outwardly quite strongly resembling Su-30М2, is produced by competitor KnAAZ - Irkut Corporation. Both companies are part of the United Aircraft Corporation (UAC), which unites all state and commercial Russian aircraft manufacturers.

Experts consider the Su-30CM version of the Su-30MK, which was supplied to China, Malaysia and Algeria, adapted for the Russian Air Force. Compared with Su-30MKK production KnAAZ Su-30MK has higher aerodynamic performance. There is a possibility of equipping it with both Russian and Western avionics - the buyer can choose the appropriate components from Russia, Ukraine, France, India and Israel. Some components of the Su-30MK are installed in the Su-30CM. These include the double cabin of the aircraft, the front horizontal tail, engines with a deflected thrust vector, an electric remote flight control system (EMF). Unlike the aircraft produced by KnAAZ, the fighters of the Irkut corporation are equipped with a shorter vertical tail. In March, the 2012 of the Russian Ministry of Defense unexpectedly placed an order for Su-30CM. In December of the same year, it was doubled and made 60 aircraft, which, as planned, will be delivered by the end of 2015. At the time of December 2013, the Russian Air Force only transferred 16 Su-30CM.

In February, 2014, according to information from a number of media outlets, the Ministry of Defense intends to sign additional contracts for the supply of another 50 Su-30CM worth more than two billion dollars. It is assumed that part of these aircraft or the entire new batch may be transferred to the Russian Navy, in this case, it is expected that deliveries will begin before the end of 2015. One of the main differences between the Su-30CM and the export Su-30МКИ for India is the use of Russian avionics instead of analogues made in Israel and India. However, much of the French equipment was retained, including the helmet-mounted display and navigation system. While on the Su-30М2 there is a H001В radar, which is an upgrade of the radar installed on the Su-27, the more powerful Bars-R H30М radar with passively phased antenna array (PAR) is included in the Su-011M avionics. Su-30M from Su-30MK is distinguished by the presence of more powerful ejection seats, adapted for heavy Russian pilots.

Experts believe that the Su-30CM will be able to use the new medium-range air-to-air missile RVV-SD and the new missile of the same short-range class RVV-MD. It is expected that the Su-30CM Russian Air Force will be equipped with other advanced air-to-air missile weapons. Su-35 differs from the two above-mentioned fighters in the first place because it is single-seater. The very concept of this aircraft appeared in the 80-s, but the direct development started at the beginning of the 2000-s. Su-35С, which KnAAZ was working on, received a new glider, improved avionics and aircraft engines. The AL-41F engines with a deflected thrust vector, a new optoelectronics, improved EDSU are installed on this fighter. PGO was dismantled due to the fact that the above-mentioned innovations allowed the Su-35С to provide an excellent level of maneuverability, according to experts. According to experts, after finalizing the development of the T-50, the Su-35C is equipped with a radar with a passive PARB H135 Irbis, an improved version of the Bars radar. It was assumed that the Su-35C as well as the Su-30М2 and Su-30СМ will be produced in the export version under the designation Su-35БМ.

A number of media outlets published information on a proposed deal with China, which is currently not confirmed. In 2009, the Ministry of Defense ordered the Su-35 fighters, 22 of which were transferred to the Air Force in February of the 2014. Twelve of these aircraft are deployed at Dzemgi airbase as part of a combat unit. The final delivery of the 48 Su-35C under the contract will be completed as expected in 2015. According to experts, the likelihood of signing another contract on 48 machines is high. Thanks to its advanced capabilities, it is Su-35C that experts believe will remain the main fighter of the Air Force until the mass entry of the low-profile T-50 into service. Capable of carrying an RVV-BD long-range air-to-air missile, according to some media, this fighter will be able to replace the outdated Russian Air Force MiG-31 interceptors. The question of the need to purchase three cars of the Su-27 family is quite relevant.

Experts believe: the production of one aircraft would be more appropriate, but the fact that rival enterprises are responsible for the production of aircraft, complicates the situation. At that time, when the Su-30 family of aircraft had significant success in the international market, the competition between the two manufacturers was not a significant problem. Su-30М2, the capabilities of which are the smallest of all the three aircraft, has, according to experts, a slight modernization potential. Earlier in the press there was information that Su-30М2 was purchased for the Russian Air Force after the failure of the deal with China. Su-35S are distinguished by a more powerful aircraft engine, improved avionics and weapons, and an updated radar. The production of Su-30CM is better debugged, the cost of this aircraft is lower, and the presence of two crew members allows you to perform more complex combat missions and more efficiently train pilots. Currently, the export prospects of the aircraft are rather vague. Foreign countries with the largest number of Su-30 family vehicles - India and China are actively building planes under license.

Malaysia chose not to purchase an additional amount of Su-30MKM, but decided to rent fighters. It is assumed that Indonesia can purchase Su-30 family aircraft to replace the outdated F-5, but even if the contract is signed, the number of imported fighters will be relatively small. According to experts, the decision of Moscow to purchase three types of aircraft is dictated by the need to support the production of both KnAAZ and the Irkut corporation. At the same time, the use of all three aircraft in the Air Force will make them more attractive to foreign customers. Today the Russian Air Force is in dire need of new fighters. The T-50 will be operational only after a few years. While the plane received positive ratings from the largest media, there is little technical information about the testing of five prototypes at the moment, according to experts. Unlike the American F-35, the T-50 tests are not public. In one of the published documents there is information according to which significant changes can be made to the T-50 project, but the degree of their probability is not specified. The timing of the T-50 program is constantly being postponed. Initially it was intended to transfer the final version of the prototype to the flight center in Akhtubinsk for testing in the 2014 year.

Experts believe that this will happen no earlier than the second half of 2016, which violates plans to declare the initial combat readiness and the beginning of mass production of the aircraft at the end of 2016. Experts are confident that in the best case, the probability of which is not very high, 60 T-50 will be delivered in 2016 – 2020. As a result, the Russian Air Force is in great need of updating the aviation fleet. Much of the fighters in the Russian Air Force is rapidly becoming obsolete. The collapse of the Soviet Union and the subsequent economic crisis significantly reduced the production of military aircraft. Only over the past few years, Moscow has been able to establish the production of fighters. Despite the fact that the above-mentioned aircraft have higher characteristics than their predecessors, the purchase of several dozen Su-30М2, Su-30CM and Su-35 will not be able to drastically improve the situation. The MiG-29, lighter than the Su-27 family of fighters, is used on a smaller scale.

Relatively recently, Algeria refused to acquire an aviation regiment of used MiG-29CMT. Heavy MiG-31 fighter interceptors are still in service, but only a small number of them have been upgraded to the level of MiG-31BM. Experts believe that not all of these aircraft have received advanced weapons. In light of the collapse of the MiG-29 modernization project and the uncertainty about the successor to the MiG-31, experts believe that it is Sukhoi’s aircraft that will protect the Russian sky for a long time. At present, the prospects for concluding contracts for the supply of Su-30М2, Su-30СМ and Su-35 for the Russian Air Force are not clear. However, experts agree that the future of fighter aviation in Russia largely depends on the development of a program to create a low-profile fifth generation T-50 fighter.
Originator:
http://vpk-news.ru/articles/19463
97 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. APASUS
    APASUS 13 March 2014 19: 06
    +43
    No matter how many fighter versions are produced, when the Air Force has not made purchases for 20 years, everything will benefit!
    1. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 13 March 2014 19: 13
      +33
      The expediency of procurement by the Russian Air Force of three modifications of the Su-27 fighter is questionable. This conclusion was made by Western experts of the Internet portal War Is Boring. laughing laughing yeah !!! it means the right way we go comrades! bourgeois have come !!! wassat
      1. ty60
        ty60 13 March 2014 20: 01
        +1
        Adapted for different tasks. F-15s are beaten in aerial combat. So it is not yet out of date.
      2. ty60
        ty60 13 March 2014 20: 01
        +1
        Adapted for different tasks. F-15s are beaten in aerial combat. So it is not yet out of date.
        1. 0255
          0255 13 March 2014 21: 35
          +1
          Quote: ty60
          Adapted for different tasks. F-15s are beaten in aerial combat. So it is not yet out of date.

          The F-15 was created specifically for mobile combat, under the impression of the American Air Force command from the losses of Phantoms in Vietnam. It was only in 1986 that the F-15E strike, created on the basis of the training F-15D, flew for the first time. Although the F-15S could also be equipped with bombs instead of air-to-air missiles.
          1. not main
            not main 13 March 2014 21: 48
            -2
            Quote: 0255
            F-15 was created specifically for maneuverable combat

            Here is the news! Too shy to ask, why the F-16? To scare Vorobyov?
            1. mojohed2012
              mojohed2012 14 March 2014 06: 56
              0
              The Americans have the same inconsistency in the Air Force. At the same time, in Europe, where the United States is trying to sell its used and new F-15 silent needles, no one runs to buy them, i.e. Europe understands that in the future, without its planes, it may completely lose everything. So NATO is supported only by the US Army. The armies of Europe have long been degrading. The reduction of armaments and the number of troops leads to the decline of the Western world order and the escape from the control of third countries due to the fact that the East and Africa respect only strength, but not "European values".
          2. SkiF_RnD
            SkiF_RnD 14 March 2014 08: 16
            +2
            F-15 was created specifically for maneuverable combat


            Is it? And the Americans think that it was a compromise between the highest possible speed and maneuverability. It was created under the impression of intelligence data on the MiG-25. They did not manage to find out the purpose of our aircraft in time, so the "Eagle" was conceived, among other things, to fight against the "25". The performance characteristics included the highest possible speed, but they wanted maneuverability, so they did not succeed in Mach 3, of course. But the Su-27P was created precisely as a highly maneuverable fighter to defeat the Eagle. So your thesis is somehow incomprehensible hi
      3. aktanir
        aktanir 13 March 2014 20: 11
        0
        Harass the developers, and preferably their bosses, involved in the creation of new planes, commissars and FSB officers with the authority to shoot on the spot without trial and investigation for only one tea party at the workplace, smoke breaks, climbing social networks on the Internet, booze and fake hospital .
        The T-50 product will be ready in a few months.
        1. Vasek
          Vasek 13 March 2014 20: 50
          +8
          Quote: aktanir
          The T-50 product will be ready in a few months.

          Perhaps he is closer to the "series" than these experts think, after all:
          "... technical information on the progress of testing five prototypes at the moment, according to experts, is little. Unlike the American F-35, the T-50 is not tested publicly ..."
          But the fact that to experts I don’t like the lack of technical information on the T-50 - I like it very much!
      4. vo.dum
        vo.dum 13 March 2014 21: 45
        +2
        But MiG is still sorry ... will destroy the school .... sad
        1. TiGRoO
          TiGRoO 13 March 2014 22: 33
          +3
          Stop the panic! The moment now delivers a moment of 29k / cube + will finish the moment of 35, and most importantly they are already working on a new Light Fighter, everything will be comrades)))
          1. SV
            SV 14 March 2014 16: 59
            0
            Pagasyan won’t give, Tupalev planted / she took away the contract for the pack and / and do not care about everything. there are lards !!!
    2. Vadim-Skeptic
      Vadim-Skeptic 13 March 2014 19: 20
      +7
      But really, why? Well, Su-35, okay. And two obscure modifications of the Su-30?
      1. platitsyn70
        platitsyn70 13 March 2014 19: 40
        +8
        we need airplanes, we need tanks, we need everything and the better and cheaper the better in the west.
        1. Nick
          Nick 13 March 2014 20: 10
          +2
          Quote: platitsyn70
          we need everything and the better and cheaper the better in the west.

          Quality and price depend on the output of the series ...
      2. Vladimir 23rus
        Vladimir 23rus 13 March 2014 19: 41
        +8
        Two not clear modifications we sold fellow and now decided to understand what we sold laughing crying
      3. Sma11
        Sma11 13 March 2014 20: 00
        +4
        РЎСѓ-35 СЃРїРѕСЃРѕР ± ен СЃРѕРІРµСЂС € Р ° ть РІРѕР »РµС‚С‹ РЅР ° РјР ° Р »С‹ С ... РІС ‹СЃРѕС‚Р ° С ... СЃ РѕРіРёРёР ±Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р °Р ° Р , Pd RЅRѕSЃS,Ro RЅR ° RЅRѕSЃRoS,SЊ SѓRґR ° SЂS <RїRѕ P "SЋR ± RѕRјSѓ RІRѕR · RґSѓS € RЅRѕRјSѓ RїSЂRѕS,RoRІRЅRoRєSѓ Ryo SѓRЅRoS ‡ S,RѕR¶R ° S,SЊ RЅR ° F · RμRјRЅS <C † Rμ RμR »Рё Р ± еР· Р · Р ° С ... РѕРґР ° РІ Р · РѕРЅСѓ РџР'Рћ противникР°.
        РЎСѓ-30РЎРњ РѕР ± Р »Р ° РґР ° РµС Ѓ СЃРІРµСЂС ... РјР ° невренностью, РѕСЃРЅР ° С ‰ ен СРР ° РґРёРѕР »Р °Р ° СРРРРРРСР ·Р ° С RμRЅRЅRѕR№ SЂRμS € RμS,RєRѕR№, SЃRїRѕSЃRѕR ± RμRЅ RїSЂRoRјRμRЅSЏS,SЊ SЃRѕRІSЂRμRјRμRЅRЅRѕRμ Ryo RїRμSЂSЃRїRμRєS,RoRІRЅRѕRμ RІS <SЃRѕRєRѕS,RѕS ‡ RЅRѕRμ RІRѕRѕSЂSѓR¶RμRЅRoRμ RєR "P ° ° In SЃSЃR" RІRѕR · RґSѓS ... -RІRѕR · RґSѓS ... In "Ryo In the "RIRSR · RґSѓS ... -РІРѕРІРµСЂС ... RЅРѕСЃС‚СЊВ".
        РЎСѓ-30Рњ2 - СѓРґР ° СЂРЅС ‹Р№ СЃР ° РјРѕР» РµС ‚СЃ Р ± РѕР» СЊС € РѕР№ РґР ° Р »СЊРЅРѕСЃС‚СЊСЋ РїРѕР» етР°. RЎRѕR · RґR ° of the PS RЅR ° F ± P ° R · Rμ RoSЃS,SЂRμR ± RoS,RμR "SЏ RЎSѓ-30 (RЎSѓ-30RњRљ2) RѕRїS,RoRјRoR · RoSЂRѕRІR ° RЅRЅRѕRіRѕ RґR" SЏ RЅR ° RЅRμSЃRμRЅRoSЏ SѓRґR ° SЂRѕRІ RїRѕ RЅR ° Р · РµРјРЅС ‹Рј Рё РЅР ° РґРІРѕРґРЅС‹ Рј С † елям РІС‹ СЃРѕРєРѕС‚РѕС З РЅС ‹Рј оружием

        R ”R ° СЃР ° РјРѕР» РµС ‚РѕРґРёРЅ Рё тот же - РЅР ° С З РёРЅРєР ° СЂР ° Р · РЅР ° СЏ
        1. silver_roman
          silver_roman 14 March 2014 14: 53
          0
          You probably meant a glider, because the concept of "airplane" is not entirely correct, although there are significant changes in the planet, the same PGO. I mean that sometimes the external similarity does not mean complete similarity.
          1. Sma11
            Sma11 14 March 2014 17: 32
            0
            РЎРѕРІРµСЂС € енно С‚РѕС ‡ РЅРѕ. РќРѕ РІ РІР »Р ° нере, РЅРµ РјРѕРіСѓС‚ Р ± С ‹С‚СЊ СЃСѓС ‰ ественны С ... РёР · менений. РўР ° Рє РєР ° Рє, РѕСЃРЅРѕРІС ‹РІР ° СЏСЃСЊ РЅР ° своем РсРІС‹ те, Р ± РѕР »РµРµ 10 Р» РµС ‚СЃР» С °Р¶РёР »РІРєРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРѓРІР No. Р ° РІРёР ° С † РёРё РІ РўРР§. Rљ RїSЂRoRјRμSЂSѓ: RђRЅ-72, RђRЅ-72Rџ, RђRЅ-74 - SЂR ° F · RЅS <Rμ RІRЅSѓS,SЂRμRЅRЅRѕSЃS,Ro RІRїR "RѕS,SЊ RґRѕ RґRІRoRіR ° S,RμR" RμR№. РќРѕ РїР »Р ° нер РѕРґРёРЅ Рё тот же. Р ›РёРЅРµР№РєРё РњРё-8, РђРЅ-24 (26), Р Р» -76.
      4. Kasym
        Kasym 13 March 2014 20: 28
        +5
        As far as I understand, the factories had some "groundwork" (ie parts of the fuselage) for various modifications of the Su-27. And so that the good would not be wasted in vain, they decided to assemble planes from them. Fast and cheap. On the other hand (this is indicated in the article), having various Su-27 mods in their Air Force, it is easier to promote them to foreign markets. hi
      5. StolzSS
        StolzSS 13 March 2014 20: 31
        +3
        They are quite understandable. The matter is the need to feed people and the need to deliver airplanes right now and both plants are loaded ... plus a puzzle to the enemies .. after all, it’s fawn when you definitely don’t know the possibilities that the old 27 may fly to you or maybe the 35th))) so that they are doing everything right within the framework of the possible ....
    3. voldmis
      voldmis 13 March 2014 19: 51
      +3
      No matter how many planes you buy - they are all OURS! Personally, I am "For" any modifications. Let Western experts not pry into our affairs.
    4. Army1
      Army1 13 March 2014 19: 58
      +11
      Need a light Front-line fighter, and this should be done by the Design Bureau angry MOMENT.
      1. voldmis
        voldmis 13 March 2014 20: 04
        +2
        Quote: Army1
        We need a light Front-line fighter, and this should be done by the MIG Design Bureau.


        Agree to 100%!
        1. 0255
          0255 13 March 2014 21: 44
          +3
          Quote: voldmis
          Quote: Army1
          We need a light Front-line fighter, and this should be done by the MIG Design Bureau.


          Agree to 100%!

          there is a MiG-35, which everyone still can’t buy:

          there is a MiG-XX project:

          someone hopes that they will resume the MIG LFI project, which was developed together with the MiG MFI:

          The question is whether they will have money request
  2. konvalval
    konvalval 13 March 2014 19: 09
    +16
    Listen to your wife (Western experts) and do the opposite and get to the point.
    1. avg
      avg 13 March 2014 22: 11
      +2
      Quote: konvalval
      Listen to your wife (Western experts) and do the opposite and get to the point.

      Listen to the wife of a Western expert, yawn, stretch, pat on the pope and say hello to your husband. wink
  3. Geisenberg
    Geisenberg 13 March 2014 19: 09
    +8
    Who should just care what equipment we have in service?
    1. almost demobil
      almost demobil 13 March 2014 19: 13
      +7
      If the enemy criticizes you, then you are doing everything right.
      1. Iron Mike
        Iron Mike 14 March 2014 07: 38
        0
        This is far from always the case.
        1. silver_roman
          silver_roman 14 March 2014 14: 57
          0
          By the way, if I’m not mistaken, these are the words of Stalin. The irony is that you have it on your ava.
      2. The comment was deleted.
    2. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 13 March 2014 19: 20
      +2
      We are worried about the technique of potential opponents, and so they are worried. request
      1. Vasyan1971
        Vasyan1971 13 March 2014 19: 39
        +2
        Experiencing their premature f-35.
        1. Geisenberg
          Geisenberg 13 March 2014 19: 45
          +2
          Quote: Vasyan1971
          Experiencing their premature f-35.


          They would have lived better for their experience.
      2. Geisenberg
        Geisenberg 13 March 2014 19: 45
        +2
        Quote: Ingvar 72
        We are worried about the technique of potential opponents, and so they are worried. request


        What interests us specifically is not the list of technology, but the methods of its destruction, weaknesses and strengths. These are different things.
    3. not main
      not main 13 March 2014 21: 14
      +1
      Quote: Geisenberg
      Who should just care what equipment we have in service?

      First of all, a potential adversary or, as they say now, a “partner,” damn tolerant! And many modifications are the norm and everyone does it!
  4. indiggo
    indiggo 13 March 2014 19: 10
    +6
    Well, the Su-30M2 most likely as a combat training bought. or just to hold the aircraft.
    Su-30SM infa passed on them that they will form the basis of fleet aviation. that is, while they are being purchased for the Air Force
    because it’s the only aircraft that we can build on schedule. after the su-30 will begin to replace the su-24 navy of the Russian Federation.
    1. Sergh
      Sergh 13 March 2014 20: 45
      +2
      Quote: indiggo
      after the su-30 will begin to replace the su-24

      In-in, you reminded me, "Var iz Boring" forgot about the Su-34 (which will replace the Su-24, for indiggo), and then the whole park has collected, and then such a ki-goat. They were jealous, suddenly Fu-35 will fail, and we have such a choice.
  5. alone
    alone 13 March 2014 19: 14
    +3
    Actually, I’m far from aviation. I would like to hear the opinion of Vaf-a, Alex and other competent comrades.
    1. Nayhas
      Nayhas 13 March 2014 22: 21
      0
      Something competent is late, so let me, if something is corrected or obstructed.
      The question is much broader. Su-35S / 30M2 / 30SM / 34.
      It’s silly to produce Su-35 and Su-30M2 at the KnAAZ at the same time, it’s more logical to transfer all the capacities to the Su-35S production, since they decided to bet on it.
      Now about the Su-30SM and Su-34. This machines actually duplicate each other, attack aircraft but with a different concept of use. Su-30SM is actually an analogue of the F-15E, designed to operate outside the air defense zone, only the weapons are poorer and worse. The Su-34 is designed to break through air defense and strike directly at point blank range, which sounds wild in the 21st century, but again the reason for this is the lack of a wide range of weapons allowing operation outside the air defense zone and the lack of modern detection and guidance tools.
      One of the cars is superfluous. The question is what? Here we need scales.
      Sioux 30SM
      + An excellent modern aircraft factory with new equipment capable of fulfilling bulk orders, which has repeatedly confirmed;
      + can be used as a training;
      + Can work effectively both as a strike aircraft and as a fighter;
      + great modernization potential, shock capabilities can be increased through the integration of suspension sighting systems, new missiles in-in, in-w;
      - the lack of domestic suspended sighting systems and scarce means of destruction do not allow effective "work from afar".
      Su-34
      + a large mass of armor used increases survivability when working in the low-altitude defense zone at low altitudes
      - at low altitudes, the main enemy is MANPADS that "hit" the nozzles of the engines disabling them or into the fuselage, how the armored cabin can help here is not clear, the plane will be shot down / damaged anyway, and the combat mission is not completed;
      - due to the high mass, the use as a fighter is excluded;
      -NAPOiCh plant did not undergo conversion and obsolete production lines, mass production of Su-34 is impossible 12-16 vehicles a year is the maximum. For comparison, the plan for 2014. 14 Su-34 vs 21 Su-30SM.
      My conclusion is that the Su-30SM and Su-35S remain, the rest are "on the way out" ...
      1. sivuch
        sivuch 14 March 2014 10: 21
        0
        On the Su-34
        A large mass of armor is a common myth. Since the armored car is included in the power plan of the airframe, excess weight is no more than 400 kg. Refusal from guided airplanes, for example, saved at least 200 kg.
        At low altitudes, the main adversary is also the shooter. And if, if the nozzle is damaged, the plane returns on one engine (the engines are spaced apart and did not save on the P / P screens), then it is unlikely that the pilots would be damaged.
        Use as a fighter is very possible and is already being mastered. It is not always and not everywhere that you need to rotate the BVB.
        By the size of the combat load, the possibility of suspension of heavy products, range, EW Su-30 station (glider of the old Su-27) and were not nearby
  6. Delink
    Delink 13 March 2014 19: 17
    +2
    Malaysia chose not to purchase an additional quantity of Su-30MKM, but decided to rent fighter jets.


    Oh, these cunning asses. Everyone wants a freebie.
    And if they destroy the plane? Will they pay the full cost?
  7. Siberian19
    Siberian19 13 March 2014 19: 20
    +3
    so envy them! we release 3 modifications, they cannot configure one their f-35 in any way!
  8. Russ69
    Russ69 13 March 2014 19: 21
    +3
    Today, by the way, the Su-27 flew to Belarus, another A-50 there, just in case ...
    MINSK, March 13. Six Russian Su-27 fighters relocated to Belarusian Bobruisk. This is stated in the message of the Ministry of Defense of Belarus
    “Since January of this year, the combat readiness of the Armed Forces of Belarus has been tested. At the first stage, the readiness of the governing bodies, formations and military units of the Belarusian segment of air defense in the Unified Regional Air Defense System of Belarus and Russia was checked. At the second stage, the readiness to fulfill the tasks of the Unified Regional Air Defense System as a whole with the involvement of part of its Russian component, which is provided for by agreements within the Union State, will be tested, ”the department said.
    “For this purpose, the Belarusian side invited the Russian Federation to participate in the joint phase of the exercise, and on March 13, 2014, six Russian Su-27 fighters and three military transport aircraft with aviation technical personnel of the Western Military District were redeployed to the Bobruisk airdrome,” - the military said.
    At the same time, the report says that “in the event of further buildup of force groupings in the states adjacent to the Republic of Belarus on the territory of Belarus, adequate response measures will be taken.”
  9. indiggo
    indiggo 13 March 2014 19: 22
    +1
    And if they destroy the plane? Will they pay the full cost?

    Of course, I think all these nuances will be spelled out in the contract.
  10. Chifka
    Chifka 13 March 2014 19: 22
    +6
    Western experts consider it unreasonable to modernize and develop, manufacture and adopt effective Russian military equipment. Correctly consider. And suddenly, God forbid, some graters with Russia, we are in fact using with this very weapon we have nowhere to go for our opponents ... Quite reasonable doubts and fears.
    At the same time, I agree with them in something, to pile up the counter with the help of the latest weapons, rather than modernized rarities, which are much more pleasant. So we, gentlemen (I am experts), are working very productively on this, have a little patience ...
  11. Dyukha Siberian
    Dyukha Siberian 13 March 2014 19: 24
    +1
    why why? to come up with a fourth faster)))
  12. tchack
    tchack 13 March 2014 19: 25
    +5
    In light of the collapse of the MiG-29 modernization project and uncertainty about the successor to the MiG-31

    Already, it seems, they decided that they would build the Mig-41 ....
  13. konvalval
    konvalval 13 March 2014 19: 28
    +2
    What do you mean why? Now the Old Man has sent 6 pieces. Maybe someone else from friends will be required.
  14. fleks
    fleks 13 March 2014 19: 31
    +5
    diversification-if one plant gets up-the other will make up for everything and the difference between the modifications is minimal
  15. indiggo
    indiggo 13 March 2014 19: 34
    +10
    understand that everything that is happening right now is not from a good life, roughly speaking, the main task is to provide the Russian Air Force in a short period of time with aviation equipment. right now we are talking a lot about the state of the Ukrainian army, but already managed to forget that literally 8 years ago it was not much better with us.
  16. Irokez
    Irokez 13 March 2014 19: 40
    +4
    I do not understand why the three modifications of the SU-27? But what about the SU-34, this platypus with a large type of weapons on the ground and over longer distances. SU-30SM and SU-34 are a bit similar in their capabilities.
    What is the meaning of war right now? Arrived bombed or fired a racket and home and the SU-34 will be more effective than the others. Specialists beyond the hillock did not begin to discuss it, probably bearing in mind that it would develop on its own and be bought to replace the outdated SU-24 which are a little afraid in foreign countries.
  17. Smiles to you
    Smiles to you 13 March 2014 19: 43
    +1
    It is impossible. forget about OKB. Moment. ATTACKS RUSSIA Ahead !!!!
  18. Wiruz
    Wiruz 13 March 2014 19: 45
    +2
    To be honest, I am far from aviation, but I also ask this question from time to time. They explained here to me on a website that, they say, the Su-30M2, in fact, is a combat training fighter, oriented more toward attacks on ground targets - a sort of underfighter and underbomber. Of course, I do not know how much the Su-30SM is cheaper than the Su-35, but the second, unlike the first, is more universal. Su-35 can be used both by the Air Force and in the coastal aviation of the Navy. If I had stars on uniform - I would have abolished all the Su-30s, but ... a large giraffe - he knows better
    1. indiggo
      indiggo 13 March 2014 19: 51
      +5
      I repeat once again, the main reason for the production of the Su-30 is the need to update the fleet of fighters, at that time the Su-35 could not be produced in the right amount.
    2. evil hamster
      evil hamster 13 March 2014 23: 54
      +1
      Su30M2 is a necessary measure due to an acute shortage of sparks. Initially, there were few of them, but when the Air Force began to fly less or less, their resource began to rapidly beat out. Judging by the fact, the Su30M2 is being shoved in pairs for a regiment, they will be used precisely as sparks. In this context, everything is quite logical, the Su30CM is too expensive for this purpose, it differs greatly from the equipment of the cab from drill machines (it is problematic to teach people how to use the Su27 and Su 27CM - the cab is very different), it differs greatly in capabilities. But Su30M2 just right. I do not think that in addition to the already ordered 16 cars there will be more.
      With this, it is understandable and logical, but in the C30CM / Su34 / Su35 three, everything is much more interesting and confusing.
      All of the above is purely unclear IMHO
  19. indiggo
    indiggo 13 March 2014 19: 45
    +2
    well, not really, su 34 is not a fighter but a bomber. its main purpose is primarily ground targets.
  20. Denchikpro
    Denchikpro 13 March 2014 19: 45
    +1
    beauties !! For twenty years they haven’t done anything for the defense industry, but here in what orders)))
  21. Roman 57 rus
    Roman 57 rus 13 March 2014 19: 47
    +2
    Because each unit of military equipment has strengths and weaknesses, and due to the variety of modifications, it is possible to partially smooth out the flaws of the model
  22. s1н7т
    s1н7т 13 March 2014 19: 47
    +2
    A contradictory article - either all this is useless, or, on the contrary, is useful for maintaining factories (by the way, why only factories? The Air Force is not needed, perhaps, airplanes - here and now, whatever, just to fly, study, improve and complete new shelves?). So, in the end, such "experts" are worth a little. In the "years of stagnation", the magazine "Jane" seems to have been more interesting. Our "best enemies" are getting smaller, they are getting smaller laughing
  23. wizarden
    wizarden 13 March 2014 19: 57
    +1
    Now the primary task is to saturate the Air Force with new planes, the faster the better. The equipment produced during the Soviet era is rapidly aging both morally and most importantly physically, therefore, to compensate for the losses, everything that our industry can produce right now is bought.
  24. Cossacks
    Cossacks 13 March 2014 19: 58
    0
    Today in the newspaper Arguments of the week Uglanov’s article about the activities of Pagasyan was published. Serdyukov is resting. Who is a fan of aviation, read will be something to reflect on.
  25. patsantre
    patsantre 13 March 2014 20: 00
    +7
    First I want to say one thing. In this and many other news, members of the forum say "they say, n **** s are different, then we are doing the right thing." Nobody was different, just some incomprehensible expert, even whose name we do not know, made some conclusions of his own. ALL. When politicians start whining, that's another matter.
    Further. Then someone stuttered about the F-35. So the same F-35 also has 3 modifications, which also differ significantly from each other, and the degree of unification is much higher than that of our aircraft. Only we have 3 (even 4, together with Su-34) types of aircraft for the Air Force, not counting the already standing Su-27s, and they have modifications for each type of army.
    After reading the headline, I generally thought that it would be about the Su-27SM, SM2 and SM3. I remember the purchase of these new machines (both purchase and modernization) was in the GOZ. It is interesting to know what is the difference between the two.
    Another point. In Western countries, there is a tendency to switch to radar from AFAR. All aircraft purchased by them are equipped with one, or will be equipped in the near future. the United States generally has these survivors, F-22 and later modifications of the F-15, F-16 and F-18. It is necessary to catch up and urgently.
    1. indiggo
      indiggo 13 March 2014 20: 09
      +1
      AFAR as shown by tests is not a panacea. on the same su-35 is an irbis. Being a VFD, it is not inferior to an AFAR.
      1. patsantre
        patsantre 13 March 2014 21: 17
        0
        What does it mean not inferior? What is not inferior? Which radar? AFAR has many significant advantages, and this is a fact.
        1. PLO
          PLO 13 March 2014 21: 49
          +1
          Well, what are the advantages of AFAR compared to VFAR?
          1. patsantre
            patsantre 13 March 2014 23: 12
            0
            Like, I don’t have time to arrange now, this has been repeatedly discussed. I’ll have to dig into the comments 2 months ago, now I won’t do it. You can take a look at the comments of Kaptsov's article about the F-35.
            1. PLO
              PLO 13 March 2014 23: 25
              +1
              everything is clear with you)
              and most of Kaptsov’s articles can be parsed, he really likes to stick out a convex and hide something important.
              1. patsantre
                patsantre 14 March 2014 13: 03
                0
                What is clear, then?
                I generally said that about AFAR specifically described in the comments on his article, and not he in his article.
        2. sivuch
          sivuch 13 March 2014 21: 56
          +1
          To be more precise, AFAR has more advantages than PFAR, but at least everything should be squeezed out of PFAR, which is done
  26. super-vitek
    super-vitek 13 March 2014 20: 12
    +3
    The arrival of new technology is always good, but in my opinion Poghosyan and the UAC, in his person, monopolized the aviation industry. Where are our legendary MiGs?!? I think that aviation should have healthy competition everywhere !!! Only if you have it you can count on really advanced, a breakthrough now in technology. In my opinion, for the revival of the MiG, they should give the development of a front-line fighter, they did a great job of it, but all this should be regulated by the player !!!
  27. Cossacks
    Cossacks 13 March 2014 20: 25
    -2
    When on the plane of the second half of the last century they put 2 displays instead of part of the pointer devices and all this is called the 4 ++ generation, it somehow does not inspire. In general, it is ridiculous that the democrats still live at the expense of Soviet potential and reasonably talk about the dark past and the dungeons of Stalin. Instead of finding out at least at Wikipedia level where and how many prisoners there are policemen in different countries per 1000 inhabitants. I assure a curious picture. Hence the reasoning that soon this is how they will fill up with new military equipment, but tomorrow and immediately 2 there are no 3 aircraft. And they will show the Lipetsk center. And we certainly believe in friendly cheers. GDP has come true is a man. And it is forgotten who appointed Serdyukov who gave him a hero and who granted amnesty. And why trifles by 2024 everything will be. And only one problem I ate too much of these breakfasts and the old one began to fall for this bullshit. Which I wish you too.
    1. evil hamster
      evil hamster 14 March 2014 00: 03
      +2
      You know, I am not saying by any means that everything is fine with us, but to deny the obvious progress in the supply of new aircraft to the Air Force is the same as denying the sunrise.
  28. The comment was deleted.
  29. chunga-changa
    chunga-changa 13 March 2014 20: 39
    +2
    According to Western experts, this decision is rather strange and can lead to significant financial costs.

    This is their arms purchase there. And decisions are made based on the offer price. And here we are investing in defense industry enterprises. If you don’t buy any model, a plant will close somewhere, usually a city-forming one. And the price of the issue will move to a completely different plane. And something really needs to be done. There is nothing good about it.
  30. Monk
    Monk 13 March 2014 20: 55
    +1
    The expediency of procurement by the Russian Air Force of three modifications of the Su-27 fighter is questionable. This conclusion was made by Western experts of the Internet portal War Is Boring.


    Bl .... I, they all know here, how can we live without them wassat
  31. supertiger21
    supertiger21 13 March 2014 21: 01
    0
    The expediency of procurement by the Russian Air Force of three modifications of the Su-27 fighter is questionable. This conclusion was made by Western experts of the Internet portal War Is Boring.


    Since "Western experts" do not like this state of affairs, then we are doing the right thing what we buy ... tongue laughing
  32. Leshka
    Leshka 13 March 2014 21: 07
    +1
    how much is needed and will be laughing
  33. maksim
    maksim 13 March 2014 21: 19
    +2
    in a real combat situation, quantity and not only quality play a small role
  34. Alex Nick
    Alex Nick 13 March 2014 21: 26
    0
    Everything is so complicated on planes, you’ll break your head. That would be to teach them to dodge enemy missiles in the machine, they would not have a price.
  35. Arh
    Arh 13 March 2014 21: 33
    +2
    I love the sky! ! ! * * *
  36. Irokez
    Irokez 13 March 2014 21: 37
    0
    You can dodge, but the pilot will be a krantets. Most likely, terminator planes will soon fly according to the program both for free hunting and for bombing, and without pilots and operators. You just need a lot of sensors and the Institute of Programmers to develop programs for all cases of air combat. Automatic take-off and landing - this is how a trifle program will work. The main intelligence embedded in the program by the programmer.
    I suppose that this already exists (in its infancy) in the future.
  37. mountain
    mountain 13 March 2014 21: 49
    0
    repeat How can I say in spirit that I didn’t understand what, but experts are touching, everything, like one from behind a hill. And not what if he had a mother with crooked teeth and gave birth to an expert and brother, and sisters. Our bloggers wrote about F-35 and all the experts, let them take it into account in Washington. wassat
  38. sivuch
    sivuch 13 March 2014 21: 52
    +2
    Su-30SM from Su-30MK is distinguished by the presence of more powerful ejection seats, adapted for heavy Russian pilots.
    ------------------------------------------
    Guys, this phrase from the article alone didn’t alert you?
    1. alone
      alone 13 March 2014 22: 22
      +1
      Quote: sivuch
      Su-30SM from Su-30MK is distinguished by the presence of more powerful ejection seats, adapted for heavy Russian pilots.

      belay People. But he is right! It turns out that the pilots weigh 150 kg +)) laughing The author is a prankster.
    2. Setrac
      Setrac 13 March 2014 22: 49
      +1
      Quote: sivuch
      Guys, this phrase from the article alone didn’t alert you?

      Yes, the whole article alerted us. As in the joke: "sprinkle it with chalk."
  39. Ek.Sektor
    Ek.Sektor 13 March 2014 21: 54
    +1
    Drying is great, but how is MiG doing now? I don’t hear something about them, I’m afraid they wouldn’t close the office recourse
    1. Irokez
      Irokez 13 March 2014 22: 10
      0
      Quote: Ek.Sektor
      Drying is great, but how is MiG doing now?

      Mig-35 is finalizing.
  40. Inok10
    Inok10 13 March 2014 22: 10
    +3
    The expediency of procurement by the Russian Air Force of three modifications of the Su-27 fighter is questionable. This conclusion was made by Western experts of the Internet portal War Is Boring.

    how happy these experts are .. :) :) .. and, what a joy to their radar and optical guidance .. flies like SU-27, identified .. or maybe not SU-27, but SU 30M2? .. also an option .. BIUS begins to collect the puzzle .. operating with the usual ones within the framework of the algorithm "YES", "No", "Or" .. the puzzle does not add up .. SU-27 via optical and radar channels, the answer is "yes" .. "or" SU-30M2? .. "or" SU-30 SM .. "or" SU-35 .. OH, "shsets mein goth shouts" BIUS is the same "cyclic command", the Russians infected me with a virus .. reboot .. the sound of the squibs of the forced ejection seat ejection .. the pilot (let's call it John) .. lands and amicably picked up by the arms and legs of the search team swinging him hears: .. "John, you are a real guy! .. you are a Hero! .. engage in battle with a Russian UFO, this can units, you did everything right, you still had no chance! " .. :) :) :) :) :) :)
    1. patsantre
      patsantre 13 March 2014 23: 22
      0
      Bullshit))
  41. corporal
    corporal 13 March 2014 22: 13
    0
    The numbers are straining something: 1763 among amers and several dozens with us. Is this parity ??? Or can one of our SU-30s withstand 50-60 aircraft in aerial combat?
    This is what we need to talk about, not what "unique" aircraft we have am
    1. alone
      alone 13 March 2014 22: 24
      +1
      Quote: Corporal
      This is what we need to talk about, not what "unique" aircraft we have

      And who is now interested in it? Here, in the wake of euphoria, it can resist 1 and a hundred winked
      But the fact that the West has complete superiority in the air is not one word.
      1. Nayhas
        Nayhas 13 March 2014 22: 27
        +2
        Quote: lonely
        And who is now interested in this? Here, in the wake of euphoria, 1 and a hundred can resist winked
        But the fact that the West has complete superiority in the air is not one word.

        Ah, it's not difficult to deceive me! ..
        I'm happy to deceive myself!
        A.S.Pushkin.
      2. Inok10
        Inok10 13 March 2014 22: 37
        +3
        Dear "Lonely (2)" who called himself "Omar Khayyam" in his full name .. historical insert: "Khayyam's childhood fell on the cruel period of the Seljuk conquest of Central Asia. Many people died, including a significant part of scientists. Later, in the preface to his Algebra "Khayyam will write bitter words:
        "We have witnessed the death of scientists, from whom remained a small long-suffering bunch of people. The severity of fate in these times prevents them from completely surrendering to the improvement and deepening of their science. Most of those who now look like scientists dress the truth with lies, without leaving science beyond counterfeiting and hypocrisy. And if they meet a person who is distinguished by the fact that he seeks the truth and loves the truth, tries to reject lies and hypocrisy and abandon boasting and deceit, they make him the object of their contempt and ridicule "
        .., and you Dear familiar with the concept of the ratio of quality and quantity? .. THERE IS NO WAY EXCELLENCE! ..
      3. s1н7т
        s1н7т 13 March 2014 23: 31
        -2
        Quote: lonely
        But the fact that the West has complete air superiority is not a single word

        Probably, out of habit, they rely on Moscow’s air defense / missile defense - they’re watching him, probably laughing
  42. Wiruz
    Wiruz 13 March 2014 22: 46
    +3
    Just for the sake of raising the mood and pride in Russian Airplane.
    Everyone flies as they can, Su-35 - as he wants
  43. SPLV
    SPLV 13 March 2014 22: 48
    +1
    Funky comments. Only who remembered that in addition to economic considerations and the renewal of the aircraft fleet, there is the question of the development of aircraft manufacturing enterprises and the possibility of reconfiguring them to release new products. It looks like Irkut may become the main production site. According to the experience of World War II, the probability of transferring the defense industry deep into the territory of the country is high, since Komsomolsk is too close to the border.
    And about the uniformity of American aircraft, you can argue. There, too, almost every year new modifications are created, they are only called more modestly: A, B, C, 1 block, 5 block, 9 block, and not like ours 27, 30, 35. The point is not changing.
    And competition "Sukhoi" must be mandatory. In the form of a cheaper and simpler aircraft, whose losses can be replenished with lower cost and time costs for production, operation and pilot training. History has long proved that monopoly in any business does not lead to good.
    1. patsantre
      patsantre 13 March 2014 23: 23
      +2
      The difference in the avionics of the blocks is perhaps. And ours have completely different airplanes based on one.
      1. supertiger21
        supertiger21 15 March 2014 15: 50
        0
        Anton, do you think the F-15E and F-15SE are not made on the basis of the same aircraft ??? Super Hornet is also a deep modernization of the F / A-18, descended from the prototype YF-17, whose distant ancestor is Northrop F-5 Tiger-2. The F-16 also has a huge number of modifications, up to block-60. So, as you can see, the Yankees themselves are fans of diversity.
  44. evil hamster
    evil hamster 14 March 2014 00: 30
    +3
    Well, if we abandon our circumstances, then by and large the Western expert is adequate. Indeed, for a spherical country in a vacuum, an order for 3 relatively similar machines, but very different in capabilities, is not good, moreover, at the time of these, it could pass under the article "Wrecking". However, unlike a Western expert, we cannot abandon our circumstances, and our Air Force is not in a vacuum, but completely in Russia, from whose history everything has grown over the past quarter century. Our entire quartet Su30M2 / Su30SM / Su34 / Su35 - not from a good life, but the consequences of a mess and lack of money. Well, now, what do we need planes yesterday, we need factories, people with experience in real mass production are needed - what to do, we will have to pay otherwise.
    By the way, unification with tanks naturally happened to us, Kharkov left, Omsk / Leningrad Tagil remained dead - something like that in aviation I would not like, although from the point of view of the design bureau and not the capacities, almost the same thing happened.
  45. Inok10
    Inok10 14 March 2014 01: 10
    +3
    Quote: evil hamster
    Well, if we abandon our circumstances, then by and large the Western expert is adequate. Indeed, for a spherical country in a vacuum, an order for 3 relatively similar machines, but very different in capabilities, is not good, moreover, at the time of these, it could pass under the article "Wrecking". However, unlike a Western expert, we cannot abandon our circumstances, and our Air Force is not in a vacuum, but completely in Russia, from whose history everything has grown over the past quarter century. Our entire quartet Su30M2 / Su30SM / Su34 / Su35 - not from a good life, but the consequences of a mess and lack of money. Well, now, what do we need planes yesterday, we need factories, people with experience in real mass production are needed - what to do, we will have to pay otherwise.
    By the way, unification with tanks naturally happened to us, Kharkov left, Omsk / Leningrad Tagil remained dead - something like that in aviation I would not like, although from the point of view of the design bureau and not the capacities, almost the same thing happened.

    ... and how did the SU-34 get into your listing? .. this is a "product" from a completely different opera .. :) ... full of "good gentlemen" your "experts" let them work on the construction of individual shelters with an autonomous life support system and sit there with such "expert assessments" .. :) ..
    Kharkov is gone
    .. what they gave and did, and was never when the Flagship ..
    Omsk / Leningrad died remained Tagil
    .. The chicken pecking a grain .. :) .. There will be a Day and there will be Food .. :)
  46. EvilLion
    EvilLion 14 March 2014 02: 55
    0
    From not a good life. Su-30СМ is what is now, when the Soviet Union is being massively decommissioned, Su-35С is a near-medium-term prospect, PAK FA is rather a distant prospect.
  47. eagle11
    eagle11 14 March 2014 13: 25
    0
    It's simple, planes are needed yesterday. The Su-30cm is a multifunctional aircraft, according to the SD, a well-oiled aircraft, the equipment at the plant does not require modification. Su-30m2, replaces the "twin" Su-27ub, they no longer have a resource. The Su-35, so far, is not quite ready, just starting production. Su-34 bomber.
    He smiled very much about the relief envelope on the Su-35, the poor pilot belay
    1. supertiger21
      supertiger21 15 March 2014 15: 58
      +1
      Quote: eagle11
      It's simple, planes are needed yesterday.


      It’s better to buy now, after only a few years, than not to buy at all.

      Quote: eagle11
      The Su-35, so far, is not quite ready, it is only going into production.


      It looks like you were stuck in 2011))) And already 3 years have passed! 34 units of the 35th have been built, and they have already been transferred to the Air Force. They will deliver the last batch of 14 units and from 2015 (according to plan) Dryers will be put into operation.
  48. Inok10
    Inok10 16 March 2014 01: 44
    +3
    Quote: supertiger21
    Quote: eagle11
    It's simple, planes are needed yesterday.


    It’s better to buy now, after only a few years, than not to buy at all.

    Quote: eagle11
    The Su-35, so far, is not quite ready, it is only going into production.


    It looks like you were stuck in 2011))) And already 3 years have passed! 34 units of the 35th have been built, and they have already been transferred to the Air Force. They will deliver the last batch of 14 units and from 2015 (according to plan) Dryers will be put into operation.

    .. :) :) :) .. They now have savings, Sequestration of the Military Budget .. now they have Intelligence on their servers, are updated every Five years .. :) :) :) :)