Military Review

Russia and China will modernize Su-35 together?

47

"Russia and China have a clear understanding of the Su-35", - Pogosyan.


The Russian United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) "feels" that it is possible to sell Su-35 fighter jets to China, despite existing concerns about the "Chinese point of view" on intellectual property issues, February flightglobal.com reports 18.

“We have a good opportunity to work with China on this issue (Su-35) despite the successes of the Chinese industry (copying previously delivered Russian fighters),” said President of the UAC, General Director of the Sukhoi company Mikhail Pogosyan. Speaking to reporters at the Singapore Airshow 2014 exhibition last week, Poghosyan answered the question if he was concerned about the issue of respecting intellectual property: "We will find a place in the Chinese market and will find an opportunity to strike a balance against the background of China’s success."

The media, citing anonymous sources from Rosoboronexport, report that Moscow and Beijing may sign a contract for 20 Su-35 in 2014.

Beijing is keen on acquiring technology in key areas such as aviation engines and avionics. There are concerns in Russian defense circles that China may use the Su-35 technology at its discretion, as was the case with the J-27B fighter based on the Su-11 and the J-15 carrier-based Su-33 fighter aircraft. Poghosyan claims that copying an aircraft (Su-35) created “4-5 years ago” is not a “development tool”.

“I believe that we and our Chinese colleagues have a clear understanding on this issue. I do not know successful examples of copying. The plane is too complicated a product to make a good copy. An airplane is a constantly growing organism. If you don’t know how it was created, you won’t be able to figure out what to do with it in the next 3-4 years. I believe that we have more opportunities for joint development. We and our Chinese colleagues do not look back, we are looking to the future, ”Pogosyan said.

The KLA President also announced that in 2013, the Russian Air Force delivered 12 serial Su-35 fighters. This aircraft in the "full serial configuration." They were produced after the release of 10 pre-production machines, which were used for testing in 2010-2013.

Originator:
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/uac-takes-cautious-approach-to-china-su-35-buy-396043/
47 comments
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  1. buga1979
    buga1979 20 February 2014 05: 53
    +4
    not to sell, and if you sell so at least 40 pieces
    1. Geisenberg
      Geisenberg 20 February 2014 15: 25
      +4
      Why hasn’t anyone put this clown in place yet? You see, he sees prospects and has reached an understanding with Chinese colleagues ... Who should care what they see there with their colleagues in China ?? This is from what department he got there collegues? Why does he not discuss prospects and the market with his colleagues at home? Here is a poor country! Constantly some kind of ur.o. will climb to those places where they should not.
    2. alone
      alone 20 February 2014 19: 13
      +2
      Quote: buga1979
      not to sell, and if you sell so at least 40 pieces

      Which in five years will become 5 times more. The Chinese are able to copy. The truth is the truth.
  2. Edward72
    Edward72 20 February 2014 06: 21
    +22
    Mr. Poghosyan, do you have only green candy wrappers on your mind?
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 20 February 2014 06: 49
      +8
      Quote: Edward72
      Mr. Poghosyan, do you have only green candy wrappers on your mind?

      No, his yuan is quoted.
    2. svp67
      svp67 20 February 2014 10: 26
      +1
      Quote: Edward72
      Mr. Poghosyan, do you have only green candy wrappers on your mind?


      Fact...
      As
      Poghosyan claims that copying an aircraft (Su-35) created “4-5 years ago” is not a “development tool”.
      is fair only if the country already has the proper level of development, but if it is 20 years behind, then this is for it a "leap of 15 years" and this is at least
      1. SV
        SV 20 February 2014 17: 41
        +1
        is fair only if the country already has the proper level of development, but if it is 20 years behind, then this is for it a "leap of 15 years" and this is at least

        I agree, so according to the majority of Western experts, China does not own a number of key technologies for creating 4+ aircraft, and in every possible way seeks to get them ...
    3. avt
      avt 20 February 2014 10: 29
      0
      Quote: Edward72
      Mr. Poghosyan, do you have only green candy wrappers on your mind?

      Well, slowly but surely the moment comes - "well, that's all, now you can cry, it's time to pay for everything on promissory notes ...." Now the chief procurator Chaika has quite seriously voiced the first claims, while the command is true, I did not receive a criminal case. We ran out of crazy budget money for the SCA and the deadlines for payments approached. And what to give? The result then does not correspond to the promises, the steam went off on a beep, somehow it held out on what PAKFA did - pleased the GDP, but in general, the oil painting only became worse.
    4. Geisenberg
      Geisenberg 20 February 2014 15: 26
      0
      Quote: Edward72
      Mr. Poghosyan, do you have only green candy wrappers on your mind?


      I am more and more inclined to believe that this is a mishandled Cossack. If it’s not mishandled, then someone from the State Department (or the CCP?) Is sending him a dough.
  3. Jurkovs
    Jurkovs 20 February 2014 06: 50
    +7
    On the one hand, you need to sell this car to China, they will be useful to him in the southern seas, with such a combat radius, and aircraft carriers are not needed. On the other hand, it is the eternal copying and theft of Russia's intellectual property. What lies behind the joint modernization? China is not signing a patent law declaration, but is buying some technology from us under the guise of modernization?
    1. Altona
      Altona 20 February 2014 11: 00
      +2
      Quote: Jurkovs
      What lies behind the joint modernization? China is not signing a patent law declaration, but is buying some technology from us under the guise of modernization?

      --------------------------------
      Most likely, China wants to tie Moscow to itself an ally and partner in foreign policy. Especially with its impending expansion into the disputed archipelagos in the Pacific and Indian Ocean (a proposal to protect Moscow from the claims of Japan in exchange for its claims to Senkaku and other islands). To this end, Beijing is cooperating extensively with Moscow on all issues, it is not up to America to go with it, even though it is tied to it by 4 trillion candy wrappers in the form of currency and US government debt bonds. Joint fleet maneuvers and exercises in Chebarkul, constant emphasis on cooperation at various summits, hanging the Russian flag with the Chinese one, and other rituals ...
      1. Rus2012
        20 February 2014 12: 20
        +1
        Quote: Altona
        even though it is tied to it 4 trillion wrappers in the form of currency and US government debt bonds


        ... the process was reversed, literally at the end of last year, the PRC "threw out" fifty lards of yuei debt obligations. It is thought according to the agreed scheme with us. And in Sochi, VVP and Xi apparently agreed on plans to "slam the insane with a slipper" ...
        The volume of US government bonds owned by China in December fell by $ 48 billion. This is the largest sale since December 2011 of the year and the second largest in history. The total number of US bonds in the hands of the Chinese declined from $ 1,316.7 billion to $ 1,268.9 billion, which corresponds to the level of March 2013 of the year!

        http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-18/china-sells-second-largest-amount-us-tr
        easurys-december-and-guess-who-comes-rescue

        Do not lag behind our Little Russians brothers - the process can accelerate further.
        Sometimes, instead of guns, play in the silence of classrooms like that ...
    2. Altona
      Altona 20 February 2014 11: 00
      0
      Quote: Jurkovs
      What lies behind the joint modernization? China is not signing a patent law declaration, but is buying some technology from us under the guise of modernization?

      --------------------------------
      Most likely, China wants to tie Moscow to itself an ally and partner in foreign policy. Especially with its impending expansion into the disputed archipelagos in the Pacific and Indian Ocean (a proposal to protect Moscow from the claims of Japan in exchange for its claims to Senkaku and other islands). To this end, Beijing is cooperating extensively with Moscow on all issues, it is not up to America to go with it, even though it is tied to it by 4 trillion candy wrappers in the form of currency and US government debt bonds. Joint fleet maneuvers and exercises in Chebarkul, constant emphasis on cooperation at various summits, hanging the Russian flag with the Chinese one, and other rituals ...
  4. NOMADE
    NOMADE 20 February 2014 06: 58
    +7
    Here are corrupt stupid people! am As soon as they are sold, in a year they will use a "3D printer" to rivet several hundred of some kind of J-12-13 .. (and in fact, it will be a copy of the SU-35), and they will receive this amount, faster than we will introduce a hundred SU- 35.
    Poghosyan and Co., think only of material gain, and not as the interests of the country. (
    1. Edward72
      Edward72 20 February 2014 07: 09
      +1
      It’s with you, me and everyone who is on this site in blood to think about the country. And it’s only profitable, give them carte blanche, so they will sell all the documentation and, as a bonus, a friend-alien identification system
    2. demon184
      demon184 20 February 2014 08: 33
      +2
      to rivet what you want can be on a 3D printer and where will they get alloy manufacturing technology? what print will fall apart without taking off
      1. SV
        SV 20 February 2014 18: 17
        0
        where will they take alloy manufacturing technology

        And if you have already sold it? (.... or in Ukraine they took)
  5. Mihail29
    Mihail29 20 February 2014 07: 03
    +1
    What else can you expect from the MANAGER ...
  6. inkass_98
    inkass_98 20 February 2014 07: 14
    +8
    copying an aircraft (Su-35) created by “4-5 years ago” is not a “development tool”.
    But it saves China a lot of time on its own developments. How many years would they have spent on the development of modern tanks and aircraft if they had not insolently copied foreign models? Yes, Tupolev also copied the B-29 on a screw, but it was about the country's survival in the conditions of the Cold War, there was no time for development, as well as personnel in the post-war devastation.
    And here everything is going very well - stole (bought), copied as best I could, sold.
    And how many specialists from Russia and Uraina were overbought after the collapse of the USSR industry? How much technology has been sold by our incorruptible executives?
    So why not put self-destruction devices on the secret blocks? Then the Chinese will either have to invest in the development of advanced aviation (and other Wonderful) technologies themselves, or really jointly develop something.
  7. Per se.
    Per se. 20 February 2014 07: 20
    +2
    "We have a good opportunity to work with China on this issue (Su-35) despite the successes of the Chinese industry (copying the previously supplied Russian fighters)," said Mikhail Pogosyan, President of the United Aircraft Corporation, General Director of Sukhoi. Undoubtedly, Mr. Poghosyan can find a place in the Chinese market, moreover, under the great joy of our Chinese "partners", "friends" and "brothers". Here, only, something no one answered for the Su-27, and if they were planted and shot, the traders would once again think that for an optimistic "bazaar" and the possible consequences of their greed in immediate interests, they will have to answer with their heads. It is hard to imagine that such a desire was to "cooperate" with China on the latest fighter jet in Europe or the United States. The same States, at one time, mocked a Japanese company for selling us high-precision machine tools, which we could use in the interests of reducing the noise of submarines. There are national interests that are higher than material ones. Finally, first provide your Air Force, put a newer model on the conveyor, and then think about how to modernize the existing fleet in such "cooperation", and so that foreign clones, in the arms market, do not press their own.
    1. evil hamster
      evil hamster 20 February 2014 13: 24
      0
      Quote: Per se.
      Here, only, something no one answered for the Su-27, and if they were planted and shot, the traders would once again think that for an optimistic "bazaar" and the possible consequences of their greed in immediate interests, they will have to answer with their heads.

      Well, there was such an uncle Sminov MP, and so this "huckster" in '83 became due to an oversight of the Sukhoi Design Bureau, you still have to come to him, though you cannot shoot him, he has already died, so to speak, has gone from responsibility, sorry right? But do not be discouraged, there is also the Irkut corporation, these enemies of the people are also massively selling fighters designed by traders from Sukhoi, over the hill, mainly to India, but rejoice there is someone to shoot.
      So in front of the comrade, great achievements are waiting for you, the homeland will not forget your exploits.
  8. dmn2
    dmn2 20 February 2014 07: 29
    +5
    I think that this is not only about money, although for many who promote this agreement, money is a matter of primary importance. I think that it is wise to carry out arms of China as a counterweight to the US-Japan ligament in the Asia-Pacific region. To oppose the United States (or not give them cause for aggression), our allies must be well armed. China, as it were, is not a direct ally, but understands that it is necessary to be friends with Russia, otherwise the West will cut it off from resources and strangle it. We can say that China will be able to use our own aircraft against Russia ... but I exclude this, because in the leadership of China, far from being fools, they understand that worse than a war with the West, only friendship with him can be and China, in the case of an alliance with the West against Russia, will be finished off by this very West without remorse.
    In general, somehow it seems to me. Only in this situation does it make sense to sell equipment to another country when the needs of your army are far from completely satisfied.
    I do not consider the issues of pirate copying and dumping of prices in the market and losses associated with this (because I think that in 10 years, while the Chinese "hack" the Su-35, build a copy and launch it on stream - this is already a topic in the markets will become outdated (from the point of view of marketers), because "invisible" will be promoted to the full and it will be possible to cut tugriks in a large number on them).
  9. twviewer
    twviewer 20 February 2014 07: 32
    +1
    what kind of cooperation can we talk about without a neo-industrialization program? or do we want to do drying in china "like a new iota-iPhone" ?? judging by the sales of iota, even this is too tricky for our managers, so that another drain of the rest of Soviet technologies is being prepared, and then what are we trading in exceptionally useful resources with a staff of 20 miles ??? this is unacceptable.
  10. saag
    saag 20 February 2014 07: 37
    +1
    There will be a RBM - Su-35 to the Chinese aircraft carrier for the Pacific Fleet, and the Chinese will adapt the Su-35 to the deck version :-)
  11. rugor
    rugor 20 February 2014 08: 39
    +1
    Good country to trade! It feels like the planes themselves are heaps. angry
  12. darksoul
    darksoul 20 February 2014 08: 48
    +3
    In Ukraine, traitors and fascists, but why are these worse? I think that this is a direct betrayal of the country, our designers have created a good car, and sell these all. Poghosyan go tangerines at the market
    1. just exp
      just exp 20 February 2014 09: 59
      +2
      and you didn’t think that a block is being created as opposed to am?
      or are you going to fight with the Russian soldiers with the Yaps (who will do absolutely everything that they require)?
      I would prefer to fight the Chinese.
      1. True
        True 20 February 2014 10: 09
        +1
        And how long have you decided with whom to fight a Chinese soldier?
  13. polkovnik manuch
    polkovnik manuch 20 February 2014 09: 13
    +2
    Poghosyan and the company are doing "miracles" again Do we have enough 4 ++, have all the shelves and training centers equipped? The conversation about selling the SU-35 to China has been going on for five years (batch of -48 vehicles), but the Chinese want a batch at half less at first, then 2-3 cars a year at all! It turns out that China needs the zest of air salons, knowing the past "tricks", just to try to copy !!! The question arises: what kind of sale of small (large) parties can we talk about if its regiments are "naked "and they still fly" on foot ", at best on simulators. It may be easier to sell Poghosyan's" effective aviation managers "together with Manturov to China and really engage in rearmament, because time is running out.
  14. Perch_xnumx
    Perch_xnumx 20 February 2014 09: 19
    +3
    Poghosyan hurries to sell his homeland. They will sell China and predictably see Chinese copies in 3-4 years.
  15. Saburo
    Saburo 20 February 2014 09: 26
    +4
    "I don't know of any successful copy. An airplane is too complex a product to make a good copy."

    Well ... I really don’t know what to say. I wonder what Pogosnya thinks about the purely Chinese development of Shenyang J-11? Does he not remind him of anything?
    Cooperation with the Chinese in the field of armaments must be minimized for a long time. First of all, stop the supply of engines for aircraft.
    1. True
      True 20 February 2014 10: 16
      +2
      Quote: Saburo
      First of all, stop the supply of engines for aircraft.

      They are already there, it makes no sense. Industry cannot make some components high enough.
  16. military
    military 20 February 2014 09: 33
    +3
    The Russian United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) “feels” that it is possible to sell Su-35 fighters to China

    a strange manifestation of masochism in Mr. Poghosyan ... to shove a "grenade" in the ass of the Russian aviation industry with his own hands and give the Chinese the opportunity to play with the check ring ... recourse
    1. True
      True 20 February 2014 10: 20
      +3
      Quote: military
      Mr. Poghosyan's tantalizing manifestation of masochism ... to shove a "grenade" in the ass of the Russian aviation industry with his own hands and give the Chinese the opportunity to play with the check ring ...
      For some reason, I’m calm for Poghosyan, everything is fine with him personally. And yes, the Chinese grenade check is ours.
  17. queen
    queen 20 February 2014 09: 33
    +2
    All our "elite" should be given to them for rehabilitation, I think many will not return.
  18. Archikah
    Archikah 20 February 2014 09: 37
    +2
    Good news - the Investigative Committee of the Russian Federation began a check and it revealed a colossal amount of financial "violations" (read theft) in the UAC under the leadership of the brilliant manager Mr. Poghosyan. Poghosyan - on the bunk! negative
    1. military
      military 20 February 2014 10: 43
      +2
      Quote: Archikah
      Poghosyan - on the bench!

      waiting for the command "Fu!" from above ...
      in the form of a hint like "today is not the 37th ..." bully
  19. largus886
    largus886 20 February 2014 09: 50
    +1
    And who in the world is able to buy a large batch of SU-35 except China? We are on the approach of the 5th generation, even if they frolic with copying from the SU-27 they did a great job, but here they choke all the more. But with India on their denyuzhki we will bring to mind the T-50.
  20. Dromac
    Dromac 20 February 2014 09: 52
    +2
    I think it was a trial ball, so to speak to feel public opinion. Poghosyan is a frank merchant, but not far away. Not only does the modern model of equipment sell abroad (without saturating our Air Force), it also wants to stir up some kind of cooperation there. What kind of cooperation? This is a competitor in the arms market, China will soon take all orders there. Honestly, I considered him a visionary, but ........ very wrong. With our own hands we are ruining everything
    1. military
      military 20 February 2014 10: 51
      +1
      Quote: Dromac
      We ruin everything with our own hands ...

      why is that? ... not even their own at all ... THESE hands have quite specific bodies ... however, some of them, as always, are not "in the know" ... repeat
  21. moreman78
    moreman78 20 February 2014 10: 31
    0
    How can traders be allowed to sell military aircraft, submarines, ships, etc. over the hill, when their crumbs get their sun? I would understand if we had everything okay, but ....
  22. Rus2012
    20 February 2014 10: 51
    +1
    Considering how many negative opinions about "sales of modern technologies to China", we have to admit that "an effective manager Poghosyan" is mistaken ...
    But is it really so?
    After all, not one general of Sukhoi makes a decision on the transfer of technologies, especially such serious ones.
    Nevertheless, I would like to believe that the question is deeply thought out.
    Moreover, it is thought out taking into account current realities and long-term prospects.
    Somehow:
    - the likelihood of an imminent collision of the Russian Federation in the Eastern European theater of operations with NATO because of our Ukrainian brothers. Who can support us? Only obviously the PRC. Let us recall how we worked together on the long-distance airlift of the Chinese aircraft with the help of our Il-76 and Ruslans.
    - backup and leverage in matters with Syria

    As for more global things -
    how to resist the Anglo-Saxons in their advance east (near and central Asia).
    Who is our ally in this, if not China?
    And if so, then their interests also need to be taken into account and supported both morally and military-technical.
    It is clear that if not we, then "someone kind" will provide them with everything, and even urge against whom to fight ...

    As for the joint elaboration of the modernization of the Su-35, I see nothing particularly harmful if all issues of scientific and technical interaction, production and sales in third markets are agreed.
    It seems that this is so.

    Example -
    J-7 (an analogue of Mig-21) still serves in the third world and not only, but not only Chinese enterprises are engaged in its equipment and provision. For me, this was a revelation ...
    And we ourselves from China are buying a certain range of ammunition (we ourselves have lost the lines in perestroika-shootout)
    1. military
      military 20 February 2014 11: 03
      +1
      Quote: Rus2012
      Nevertheless, I would like to believe that the question is deeply thought out.

      there is no doubt about that ... the question is "thought out", undoubtedly, deep enough ... repeat a very limited circle of persons ...
      1. Rus2012
        20 February 2014 12: 06
        +2
        Quote: military
        there is no doubt about this ... the question is "thought out", undoubtedly, deep enough ... by a very limited circle of people ...


        The military-industrial complex (military-industrial commission), the Defense Council - what do you mean people "cut" the bulk?
        If you think so, then whom to believe in this country and what to fight for?
        "Drain the water crawl not the cemetery?"
        Or "euromaidan-swamp" -rulite?
  23. UREC
    UREC 20 February 2014 10: 55
    0
    Americans sell their F22 to nobody!
    1. Rus2012
      20 February 2014 12: 08
      +1
      Quote: UREC
      Americans sell their F22 to nobody!

      T-50-will not ...
      As well as Su-9, Mig-31 - also did not sell to anyone and much more ...
  24. room27
    room27 20 February 2014 11: 07
    0
    not only planes, but let them also our women, we will make shortages of them. That's all.
  25. SVD
    SVD 20 February 2014 11: 08
    0
    But what about the SU-35! Let’s upgrade the T-50 with the Chinese, and then quickly dump the hill with the dough!
  26. Hitrovan07
    Hitrovan07 20 February 2014 11: 31
    +1
    We need to sell technologies that Russia will no longer need, why do we need a Su-35 if there is a T-50. The main thing is that the selling price of technologies is an order or two higher than the costs for the same T-50 plus our factories will produce the next, not the previous generation of equipment.
  27. Smiles to you
    Smiles to you 20 February 2014 11: 38
    0
    If you sell, then without avionics and engine. And the party should be at least 50-60 pcs, taking into account deliveries within 3 years, with full prepayment !!! Otherwise, NO-NO !!!