Military Review

Old planes do not happen

50
Old planes do not happen


The discussion about the safe life of the aircraft is gaining momentum: the State Duma amended the Air Code of the Russian Federation, which tightened the rules for admitting foreign aircraft to civilian traffic.
In particular, it was proposed to ban flying on aircraft older than fifteen years. "RG" asked to express their point of view of the Director General of the State Research Institute of Civil aviation, Doctor of Technical Sciences, Professor Vasily Shapkin.


Vasily Sergeevich, air experts say: there are no old planes. Need to talk only about the airworthiness of the aircraft?

Vasily Shapkin: Absolutely right. Maintaining the airworthiness of aircraft and ensuring their safe operation is a complex technical and organizational task. And this kind of bans she does not dare. By itself, the calendar life of the aircraft or helicopter says little.

The determining condition is the technical condition of the aircraft. And it, in turn, depends on the completeness and quality of work on its maintenance, including the timely implementation of the necessary controls, modifications and replacements established by the developer. The airworthiness of an aircraft is certified by an airborne certificate of airworthiness, which is issued by the aviation authority of the state of its registration in accordance with established procedures. Another thing is how much the airworthiness of aircrafts having long service lifetimes costs.

And, really, how much?

Vasily Shapkin: The cost of their operation as the increase in air increases due to the need to perform a large amount of modifications and inspection work. In addition, early-generation aircraft have the worst performance in terms of economy, ecology, capabilities of on-board equipment systems, and comfort. That is, the calendar service life is a category for the most part economic, and the airline itself decides how profitable it is to operate an aircraft with a large touch or service life.

Once again, the level of airworthiness requirements of the aircraft does not depend on the period of its operation. Meeting these requirements is a necessary condition for issuing an onboard airworthiness certificate.

We analyzed the life of the "flying" world aircraft fleet. In the USA, for example, there are DC-3 type airplanes, whose service life exceeds 70 years. And they fly, fly safely.

At one time, was the disposal of the Ministry of Transport of Russia, which restricted leasing and rental of aircraft with a calendar life of 25 and more years?

Vasily Shapkin: Then a large number of Russian (Soviet) aircraft were returned to Russia from abroad and, in accordance with the order of the Ministry of Transport of Russia N 110, the State Research Institute of Civil Aviation, together with the aircraft developer, determined the list of measures that the operator must perform to enter it into the state register. Only flying aircraft and helicopters were put into the state registry. This made it possible to compare the operating conditions of the “declared” instance with the operating conditions of the types of aircraft flying in Russia. And also to evaluate, as we say, its loading, accumulated damage, to determine the actual technical condition and possible limitations in operation.

I will say right away that not all aircraft declared to be entered in the state register began to carry out transport work. Many of them were sent to overhaul and only after it were allowed to be used in civil aviation of Russia.

After the introduction of the FAP-80 "On State Registration of Aircraft" (FAP - Federal Aviation Regulations. - Ed.), The order N110 was canceled, and the aircraft could be put into the state register in any technical condition, which was and is being done now. Our institute no longer participated in the preliminary assessment of the technical condition of the aircraft or helicopter before putting it into the state register.

But the very fact of putting the aircraft in the state registry still does not give him the right to start operation?

Vasily Shapkin: Of course, does not. The aircraft must be certified according to the Federal Aviation Regulations and receive a certificate of airworthiness. And only after that it can be allowed, or not allowed, to fly.

What is the average service life of Russian aircraft?

Vasily ShapkinA: The average lifetime of an air fleet is the same as “average temperature in a hospital.” And therefore it is necessary to talk about the airworthiness of each specific instance of the aircraft, regardless of the timing of its operation.

It should be borne in mind that aircraft are dropped out of service primarily because of the increasing requirements for environmental protection (noise, emissions into the atmosphere) and the accuracy of on-board equipment systems.
Author:
Originator:
http://www.rg.ru/2014/02/14/shapkin.html
50 comments
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  1. andrei332809
    andrei332809 18 February 2014 18: 44
    +4
    The determining condition is the technical condition of the aircraft. And it, in turn, depends on the completeness and quality of work on its maintenance, including the timely implementation of the necessary controls established by the developer, improvements and replacements.

    and there’s nothing more to add.
    1. invisibility
      invisibility 18 February 2014 19: 26
      +4
      As usual, no one sees the problem with us. Or does not want to see. There are no old planes, there is a bad condition. It happens with us! Because there is no quality service, no control at all levels, no quality fuel, no spare parts, etc. That is why we have the concept of age for an aircraft! You shouldn't be like a dime-iPhone who, after another disaster, utters a genius! "If our aircraft manufacturers cannot get ahead ... then ban it !!!"
      And it says the state husband! Yes, he has a concept, at the level of a merchant-hawker in Cherkizon, who is spinning his point!
    2. Rus2012
      Rus2012 18 February 2014 19: 34
      +7
      The determining condition is the technical condition of the aircraft.

      ... well, no arguing against the law of gravity ...
      BUT! The technical condition of the aircraft is a multifactorial multivariate indicator.
      There are no old planes - right!
      But, if it was created with the same requirements -
      service life - 25let, 4capa through 5, MTBF - 0,9999 - this is one!
      And if - after 10 years of operation in the leasing company, it is not bought back by the operator, but sent to the secondary market ... And if the requirements for failures have been reviewed for a long time and concepts have already been introduced - non-responsible failures with which further operation is allowed - this is completely different!

      As a result, many of our (and other second-rate and third-rate) campaigns are commissioning used liners, after the 2 cap, with video monitors boarded up by plywood in the cabin, and God knows with what irresponsible non-working units, with old batteries, so the charge does not hold on low gas, with a slurred history (the last case of a fall in Kazan) ... and there is
    3. jjj
      jjj 18 February 2014 20: 51
      +2
      Recall An-10. Fatigue of the metal led to destruction in the air and disasters. Tu-104 had to change one leader (the oldest aircraft) due to the end of its useful life. The changer, as a laboratory, flew for a long time. And everything was fine with him. But the younger combat vehicles began to collapse. Still, the certificate of airworthiness - a certificate, and years do not pass without a trace
    4. AVV
      AVV 19 February 2014 01: 05
      +1
      Quote: andrei332809
      The determining condition is the technical condition of the aircraft. And it, in turn, depends on the completeness and quality of work on its maintenance, including the timely implementation of the necessary controls established by the developer, improvements and replacements.

      and there’s nothing more to add.

      Everything is dull to justify such a quantity of junk in Russia !!! It's like a doctor, he would say that you need to look after the patient's condition, and not at his age !!! But obviously, the higher the age, the greater the likelihood of heart failure , or other organs, and already in bed there are problems !!! So, what is the age, what is the person, what is the plane matters !!!
      1. Alex 241
        Alex 241 19 February 2014 01: 12
        +1
        But I would like a hundred old planes to fly! At least these!
    5. Reasonable, 2,3
      Reasonable, 2,3 19 February 2014 11: 25
      0
      This is the law against carcasses and yaks.
  2. waisson
    waisson 18 February 2014 18: 59
    +7
    old planes do not exist - until they make a profit amonly now our gentlemen are trying to fly on new
    1. Rus2012
      Rus2012 18 February 2014 19: 39
      +1
      Quote: waisson
      only now our gentlemen are trying to fly on new

      ... new discord! laughing
      VIP-boards were collected only with a sample with small tolerances. After the 1 cap, we went to Aeroflot on regular lines ...
      Wait, I don’t know, the first presidential Il-96 - probably 20 for years ...
  3. propolsky
    propolsky 18 February 2014 19: 04
    +2
    And the failures are mostly new ones: statistics and flight experience.
    1. Rus2012
      Rus2012 18 February 2014 19: 42
      +4
      Quote: propolsky
      And the failures are mostly new ones: statistics and flight experience.

      there is such a curve for failures on the operating time of the resource ...
      But, it consists somehow of three parts: the initial one - to a sufficiently high level, then the 2 / 3 stabilizer of its service life, then slowly - a collapse, it begins to crumble ....
  4. saag
    saag 18 February 2014 19: 10
    +3
    there are, there are old planes, and why is DC-3 to be used as an example?
    1. Horst78
      Horst78 18 February 2014 19: 47
      +1
      The plane is a complex contraption. The glider has its own resource, the engine has its own, The blades or blades of the turbines have their own. It all depends on how timely the overhaul of the corresponding units is carried out. In general, the plane can fly for 60 years or more.
      1. VAF
        VAF 18 February 2014 20: 21
        +3
        Quote: Horst78
        The glider has its own resource, the engine has its own, The blades or blades of the turbines have their own.


        So yes, but do the turbine compressor blades of the engine have their own resource, and not the general motor? request

        Quote: Horst78
        ... It all depends on how timely the overhaul of the corresponding units is carried out.


        Maybe you wanted to write HOW QUALITY is produced? wink Because the term is timely at all here .. not appropriate soldier
        1. jjj
          jjj 18 February 2014 20: 56
          +1
          Airframes, power plants and electronic equipment have service forms after a certain number of flying hours. Accordingly, the replacement of units and assemblies is carried out in a planned manner precisely on the fly, of course, if there are no failures
          1. VAF
            VAF 18 February 2014 21: 07
            +2
            Quote: jjj
            The glider, power plants and electronic equipment have forms of service after a certain number of flight hours.


            The glider and equipment yes, have a REDO on the forms. ON ENGINES only INSPECTIONS and the possibility of extending the MTO by 600 hours according to the bearing condition. but naturally within the interrepair calendar.

            And by the way, according to the certificate of airworthiness, this document is issued precisely for the period between overhauls and the calendar, and then .. is extended! wink
            This is to your top comment and "end" phrase about .. "year" wink
            1. VAF
              VAF 18 February 2014 21: 26
              +2
              Quote: vaf
              This is to your top comment and "end" phrase about .. "year"


              And for WHAT minus belay ?? request
  5. ICT
    ICT 18 February 2014 19: 39
    0
    serviceable, faulty, equipped and combat ready (something like that from memory), there are no other options
    1. Alex 241
      Alex 241 18 February 2014 19: 43
      +3
      Quote: TIT
      serviceable, faulty, equipped and combat ready (something like that from memory), there are no other options

      Airworthiness compliant and non-compliant.
      1. Lissyara
        Lissyara 18 February 2014 23: 22
        +2
        Sash, I agree completely. States 2,5. Take off - Do not take off. Well, a half-read "Sky!" And into battle.
    2. 11111mail.ru
      11111mail.ru 18 February 2014 21: 25
      +1
      Quote: TIT
      there are no other options

      and ... having the remainder of the resource, allowing the continued operation of the aircraft.
      This is what this thread says.
      1. VAF
        VAF 18 February 2014 21: 28
        +2
        Quote: 11111mail.ru
        ... and having the remainder of the resource, allowing the continued operation of the aircraft.


        Yes, but only within the ESTABLISHED REPAIR CALENDAR!
        1. igor67
          igor67 18 February 2014 21: 36
          +3
          Quote: vaf
          Quote: 11111mail.ru
          ... and having the remainder of the resource, allowing the continued operation of the aircraft.


          Yes, but only within the ESTABLISHED REPAIR CALENDAR!

          Hi Sergey, I never thought about where all the folders with passports from cars are stored, this is such a huge number of passports for each unit, the cable is even scary to think about
          1. VAF
            VAF 18 February 2014 21: 44
            +3
            Quote: igor67
            I never thought about where all the folders with passports from cars are stored


            The military records of aircraft and engines are kept by the SD engineers (regimental, of course) and in special safes-cabinets.
            Passports for units and equipment are kept by the squadron engineer in the house .... by services.
            When the car goes for repair, then everything is taken either on board (transporters) or by escorts (the same at VTA) or by a steam locomotive to the factory
            1. Alex 241
              Alex 241 18 February 2014 21: 47
              +3
              Quote: vaf
              When the car goes for repair, then everything is taken either on board (transporters) or by escorts (the same at VTA) or by a steam locomotive to the factory
              And they are never transported on the plane that owns the form.
              1. VAF
                VAF 18 February 2014 21: 57
                +2
                Quote: Alex 241
                And they are never transported on the plane that owns the form.


                Sanya, so I wrote ... accompanying wink
                1. Alex 241
                  Alex 241 18 February 2014 22: 02
                  +3
                  The commander is to blame. I just remembered how the poor RLO was "rolled out" on the parade ground, for an error in the form. There is also a whole procedure to correct it. It's easier to hang yourself!
            2. igor67
              igor67 18 February 2014 21: 48
              +3
              Quote: vaf
              Quote: igor67
              I never thought about where all the folders with passports from cars are stored


              The military records of aircraft and engines are kept by the SD engineers (regimental, of course) and in special safes-cabinets.
              Passports for units and equipment are kept by the squadron engineer in the house .... by services.
              When the car goes for repair, then everything is taken either on board (transporters) or by escorts (the same at VTA) or by a steam locomotive to the factory

              Thank you! Why and asked when the cars came for repairs helped to take out the folders.
        2. ICT
          ICT 19 February 2014 00: 20
          +1
          Yes, but only within the ESTABLISHED REPAIR CALENDAR!

          NIAO-90, is there a taxiway in civil aviation or are there your little books there?
          1. Alex 241
            Alex 241 19 February 2014 00: 27
            +1
            Of course their own. NIAO-MANUAL ON AVIATION ENGINEERING (NIAO-90)
            This Manual defines the purpose, tasks, rights and obligations of ITS units, formations and formations for engineering and aviation support of combat operations and combat training, establishes general rules for the operation and repair of aviation equipment, requirements for ensuring its reliability, flight safety, and engineering and technical training. personnel, determines the procedure for the deployment and maintenance of aviation equipment at airfields, accounting for its presence and condition in aviation units and institutions of the USSR Armed Forces and the USSR DOSAAF.
  6. Horst78
    Horst78 18 February 2014 19: 40
    +1
    Well, we, for example, in Strezhevoy from Tomsk fly rarities AN-24 and AN26 Tomskavia. No others. And what to do? There is no other transport with the regional center (try the winter road to the GAZelle at -40). In the army and the air force, there will be older planes, and in the 90s, I think maintenance was also not at the level, but they are not prohibited from flying. The only way out is the state support for leasing such aircraft as AN-140, 148, SSJ100, Tu-204, Il-96. You won't be able to ride a stack of territory on buses and railways.
    1. VAF
      VAF 18 February 2014 20: 00
      +5
      Quote: Horst78
      In the army and the air force, there will be older planes, and in the 90s, I think maintenance was also not at the level, but they are not prohibited from flying.


      Do not think correctly. just don't know!
      But the minus is not for this but .. "for the state support of Super-Bobik" soldier
      1. testerman
        testerman 18 February 2014 21: 18
        +1
        Why minus HORST78? So what does SuperBobica support? The glider is not great, flew Samara-Moscow, felt all the delights of climbing with the engines turned off ... but enter the position of residents of Strizhevoy and other Northern cities. For not having the best at least something on regional airlines is already a panacea. For comparison, the road along the railway from Strizha takes more than two days to Tomsk, not counting two changes in Nizhnevartovsk and Tyumen, and in fact the distance is 800 km between the two cities and 1:40 fly on AN24.
        At least it's better than burning tires on the winter road in anticipation of a miracle, that is, at least someone who will pass by
        1. VAF
          VAF 18 February 2014 21: 35
          +2
          Quote: testerman
          Why minus HORST78? So what does SuperBobica support?


          So I wrote openly why. and not minusanul in tihushka! wink
          And my position is like this .. I just can't look. as 2nayo..2 your people ... it is the people, not the state soldier

          Quote: testerman
          I felt all the delights of climbing with the engines turned off.


          Sorry, but it's like ... belay
  7. sinukvl
    sinukvl 18 February 2014 19: 58
    +1
    Interestingly, is there such a thing as metal fatigue that does not exist in nature or the load-bearing elements of the fuselage are not subject to it? What have you already learned to do from plastic, so does plastic have fatigue? And since there is such an indicator, it means that there is a service life, it means that old aircraft also exist. And we must fight against this, and not tell that everything is fine with us.
    1. VAF
      VAF 18 February 2014 20: 04
      +3
      Quote: sinukvl
      Interestingly, is there such a thing as metal fatigue that does not exist in nature or the load-bearing elements of the fuselage are not subject to it?


      Of course there is! At the Chaplygin Research Institute, all aircraft are still .. "fly" (break down due to static), and according to the results, all the strength modifications (bulletins) are published that are mandatory and for the implementation of which new resource values ​​and calendar dates are set for the aircraft!
      1. Alex 241
        Alex 241 18 February 2014 20: 20
        +4
        Quote: vaf
        Of course there is! At the Chaplygin Research Institute, all the planes are still .. "flying"
        Hi Seryozha.
        1. VAF
          VAF 18 February 2014 20: 26
          +1
          Quote: Alex 241
          Hi Seryozha.


          Sasha, hello buddy drinks Well, and a separate THANKS and RESPECT for the GREAT ILLUSTRATION of my comment and showing the work of the FSUE "SibNIA im. S. A. Chaplygin "! good
          Yes, and belatedly for amerovskoy X-9! told and showed everything soldier
          1. Alex 241
            Alex 241 18 February 2014 20: 33
            +3
            Seryozha, Chaplygin (Chapa) taught us a course in aviation electrical engineering, he was an entertaining man! Favorite phrase was: Turn on "Polylux" and drove, the resistance on the diagram is thin and long as a sleeper! We changed it in our own way: Comrade cadets, we were yesterday Major Fedorenko removed a woman, thin and long as a wassat
      2. igor67
        igor67 18 February 2014 21: 13
        +2
        Quote: vaf
        Quote: sinukvl
        Interestingly, is there such a thing as metal fatigue that does not exist in nature or the load-bearing elements of the fuselage are not subject to it?


        Of course there is! At the Chaplygin Research Institute, all aircraft are still .. "fly" (break down due to static), and according to the results, all the strength modifications (bulletins) are published that are mandatory and for the implementation of which new resource values ​​and calendar dates are set for the aircraft!

        At our rehab base, especially important units were X-rayed 100 percent, we had our own, why there was an X-ray room and a mandatory "check" for microcracks
  8. alone
    alone 18 February 2014 20: 28
    +1
    VAF is as usual today and it's a pleasure to read such comments. hi

    PROFESSIONAL. No comments.
    1. VAF
      VAF 18 February 2014 20: 54
      +3
      Quote: lonely
      It is a pleasure to read such comments.


      Greetings and thank you of course drinks
      But a Alex 241, FID, Ustin and many, many, many !!! good
      This is a PRO, so a PRO, and even more so .. ACTIVE good drinks soldier
      1. alone
        alone 18 February 2014 21: 04
        +1
        Quote: vaf
        This is a PRO, so a PRO, and even more so .. ACTIVE


        Sergey, these words apply to all the listed professionals. drinks Thanks again to you, SSI, Alex, Ustin. hi soldier
      2. Alex 241
        Alex 241 18 February 2014 21: 05
        +3
        Yes, what is Seryozha, I "fly" on my desk with a heap of papers. Fortunately, at least sometimes I break out to the airfield. I see the guys off, inhale the smell of kerosene.
        1. VAF
          VAF 18 February 2014 21: 18
          +3
          Quote: Alex 241
          Yes, what is Seryozha, I "fly" on my desk with a heap of papers. Fortunately, at least sometimes I break out to the airfield. I see the guys off, inhale the smell of kerosene.


          Yeah, otherwise I don't know wink You might think I'm not getting out because of the "handle" or "horns2 lol
          This is already in the past ... now the same plant-KB-plant (and where there is a dash there is a steam locomotive, well, as a last resort ... Aeroflot

          And so .. only at the already "relics" I look and .. remember drinks .. "eh .. we were also .. once .. ratters" soldier

          1. Alex 241
            Alex 241 18 February 2014 21: 22
            +2
            Quote: vaf
            . "eh .. we were also .. once .. ratters"

            It's too early to rip off the horseshoes.
            1. VAF
              VAF 18 February 2014 21: 39
              +1
              Quote: Alex 241
              It's too early to rip off the horseshoes.


              Not Sanya. This is still like a knacker, and it’s a bit too early, although ... No. , but here are the horseshoes ... it's high time crying
            2. igor67
              igor67 18 February 2014 22: 17
              +4
              Quote: Alex 241
              Quote: vaf
              . "eh .. we were also .. once .. ratters"

              It's too early to rip off the horseshoes.




              ***
              The crew is walking across the field after the flight, and in front of them the stewardess is walking ...
              The commander looked at her and said: "What a chassis she has!"
              Navigator: "What is this - what hanging tanks !!!"
              They go further ... they ask the flight engineer:
              - Why are you silent?!?!?
              BI: "So it's up to you to talk ... Mine is to uncover and test in all modes ..." laughing
        2. igor67
          igor67 18 February 2014 21: 20
          +3
          [quote = alex 241] What kind of Seryozha is there, I "fly" on my desk with a heap of papers. Fortunately, at least sometimes I break out to the airfield. I see the guys off, I inhale the smell of kerosene.
          Sweet smell of kerosene good my hands turned red from kerosene by the end of the shift
          1. Alex 241
            Alex 241 18 February 2014 21: 23
            +5
            Quote: igor67
            my hands turned red from kerosene towards the end

            This is normal! Worse when the nose turns red from SHS laughing
            1. igor67
              igor67 18 February 2014 21: 31
              +2
              Quote: Alex 241

              This is normal! Worse when the nose turns red from SHS laughing

              Our alcohol (if the alcohol tank is clean) was poured out by the LIS people, and if we got the sultyga, I disconnected the alcohol valve and blown it out with air, for another kolomarchik drinks
        3. pint45
          pint45 18 February 2014 21: 28
          +1
          EXCELLENT AIRCRAFT WIRES !!
  9. testerman
    testerman 18 February 2014 21: 11
    +1
    Quote: Horst78
    Well, we, for example, in Strezhevoy from Tomsk fly rarities AN-24 and AN26 Tomskavia. No others. And what to do? There is no other transport with the regional center (try the winter road to the GAZelle at -40). In the army and the air force, there will be older planes, and in the 90s, I think maintenance was also not at the level, but they are not prohibited from flying. The only way out is the state support for leasing such aircraft as AN-140, 148, SSJ100, Tu-204, Il-96. You won't be able to ride a stack of territory on buses and railways.



    Finally the guard. He flew repeatedly from Nizhnevartovsk to Tomsk and back. The hydraulics of the chassis on a wire, even somewhere in the photo was if you look. To the remark during landing, only a smile full of irony and the answer "oh well, if you plan something for the swamps." In March, fly back and forth again ... so you think, maybe take a chance on the winter road
  10. APASUS
    APASUS 18 February 2014 21: 20
    +2
    Vasily Shapkin: The average service life of an aircraft fleet is like "the average temperature in a hospital."

    This characteristic response of the official, in terms of meaning, reminds Gorbachev! He did not answer normally any question. Who was involved in the interview, what kind of Shapkin?
  11. Air Force
    Air Force 18 February 2014 21: 36
    +1
    Explicitly customized article. Airlines want to continue buying and exploiting old junk.
    Moreover, they tell us fairy tales about maintenance. Any normal person tries to buy a new car and not a "penny" after a major overhaul. So why should it be the other way around with airplanes?
  12. Achtaba1970
    Achtaba1970 18 February 2014 22: 01
    +1
    When the DC-3 was designed, a large margin of safety was laid (there were no computers for calculations, there were no environmental standards, and finally there was no need to mess up much with fuel efficiency. Therefore, a large margin of safety.
  13. polkovnik manuch
    polkovnik manuch 18 February 2014 22: 23
    +1
    It was instructive, I listened to smart people and understood the same thing everywhere: in the navy and in aviation.
  14. Commandor
    Commandor 19 February 2014 00: 36
    +2
    In general, we have a retired plane at the airport, recently celebrated 50 years. And nothing, flies ... used to be able to design and assemble. No what now.
    1. Alex 241
      Alex 241 19 February 2014 00: 50
      +1
      Quote: Commandor
      recently celebrated 50 years.

      Are not these by chance?
      1. not main
        not main 19 February 2014 02: 27
        0
        An2 is much older than Il14
  15. valokordin
    valokordin 19 February 2014 02: 30
    -1
    There are no old planes, there is the old slovenliness. In general, to everyone on the forum, we must support Yanukovych, the fatherland is in danger!