Pacific Fleet to replenish 14 surface and 7 submarines

Far Eastern shipbuilders agreed with the Navy command a production program for the construction of ships for the Pacific fleet. On February 12, Andrei Basargin, Director General of the Amur Shipbuilding Plant (NPS), told the Minister of Defense of Russia, Army General Sergei Shoigu.

Before 2024, four corvettes, three frigates, seven minesweepers, six diesel submarines of the Varshavyanka-type 877 project are planned to be commissioned, and repairs will be made with the modernization of the Bars-type nuclear submarine of the 971 project.

The first to be commissioned are the 20380 "Perfect" and "Loud" corvettes. The total amount of contracts for only the three ships closest to delivery is 30 billion rubles.

Basargin also suggested that the government should create on the basis of the enterprise one of two military shipbuilding centers in Russia (the first is in Pomerania on the basis of the Zvezdochka shipbuilding plant).

Comments

[LaGlobal]

One ship per year ??
- will not be enough for the Pacific Fleet ?? But what about the two aircraft carriers that were recently talked about ??

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: LaGlobal

But what about the two aircraft carriers recently talked about ??

Chatting don't build.

[LaGlobal]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

Chatting don't build.

exactly! Or is it from the version where "they harness for a long time ..."?

[Samaritan]

... I twist, twirl, I want to confuse ...

[Trailer]

Go right - the song starts! To the left - a fairy tale says! Sorry for the Pacific Fleet, from the heart! Take a look at Yapov for comparison!

[avg]

Basargin also proposed that the government create one of the two naval shipbuilding centers in Russia on the basis of the enterprise.

Of course, such a center is needed in the Far East, but the fact that in the post-Soviet era I do not remember more than one trouble-free project at this enterprise is somewhat annoying. In addition, its capabilities do not allow the construction of larger ships.

[kris]

Quote: LaGlobal

By 2024, it is planned to be commissioned

first to 2015 year
then to xnumx
now until the year 2024.
Putin seems to be ready for the next term!

[Serg65]

Quote: kris

Quote: LaGlobal

By 2024, it is planned to be commissioned

first to 2015 year
then to xnumx
now until the year 2024.
Putin seems to be ready for the next term!

So you advertise Putin? I first thought about something else, I repent.

[And Us Rat]

Quote: kris

... it seems Putin is going to the next term!

In every joke, there is a fraction ... jokes

[Boa kaa]

Quote: And Us Rat

And Us Mother (2) Today, 16: 00 ↑

Respected! Black humor is not appropriate here! If we (the country) do not rise from our knees by 2020, then we will be "reduced" to 15 million people within the borders of Muscovy (maximum to the Urals) to work on a rotational basis for the production of hydrocarbons on the shelf of the Arctic Ocean. So 2132 doesn't suit us! But if the PU does not disperse the neoliberal monetarists, then its people will move and find a new leader who can return the country to the place it occupied during the "heyday of stagnation", when industrial production was 85% of the US.

[And Us Rat]

Quote: Boa constrictor KAA

Black humor is not appropriate here!

I agree, it would be funny if it were not so sad.

Quote: BoA KAA

If we (the country) do not rise from our knees by 2020, then we will be "reduced" to 15 million people within the borders of Muscovy (maximum to the Urals) to work on a rotational basis for the production of hydrocarbons on the shelf of the Arctic Ocean.

No, I'm afraid it will be even worse, the territory of Muscovy, in this scenario, will be forcibly Islamized, under the auspices of either Iran or the KSA and turn into "Balkans 2.0"

Quote: BoA KAA

But if PU does not disperse the neoliberal monetarists ...

It is necessary to deal with the cause of the disease, and not with the symptoms. THE MAJOR AND BASIC misfortune of Russia that eats it from within is CORRUPTION. And if it is not suppressed even to a latent state, it will devour the country like a cancer, to the ground.

[Hitrovan07]

May I ask where the year 2020 comes from - beautiful numbers or is there "hidden" information?

[Sirocco]

You are probably behind the times)))) Crassavchik, after all)))))

[Su24]

Quote: kris

Quote: LaGlobal

By 2024, it is planned to be commissioned

first to 2015 year
then to xnumx
now until the year 2024.
Putin seems to be ready for the next term!

Not funny. If you follow the news, you should know the volume of arms supplies to the Armed Forces.

[lelikas]

Quote: LaGlobal

One ship per year ??
- will not be enough for the Pacific Fleet ?? But what about the two aircraft carriers that were recently talked about ??

- On a new ship.
Carriers are only plans for plans - they have no order or technical assignment.
Well, if all the plants begin to hand over to the fleet, at least one product a year - you look and two work out.

[Serg65]

Quote: LaGlobal

One ship per year ??
- will not be enough for the Pacific Fleet ?? But what about the two aircraft carriers that were recently talked about ??

We are talking about the Far Eastern shipbuilders, is not it? What capacities are they at. will you rivet 10 boxes per year? Dreaming is certainly nice, but reality is very different from a dream. 20 years they didn’t build anything, but here you want to catch up and overtake America in five years?

[Ruslan]

you can build 4 corvettes in Komsomolsk at once (as I was told), although maybe more, there are 9 dry construction docks. if not for a year, then for a couple of years. but this if there is a desire. you can even build ships up to 15000 tons (a chemical carrier did such a displacement), but it’s problematic to launch them, but it’s possible. but this if there is a desire, but I doubt such a desire. and in general I doubt edrosii that they can do something.

[Civil]

Let's say not the fleet, but the Pacific squadron ...

[starshina78]

I am glad that at least at such a pace the native Pacific Fleet is being updated!

[Su24]

Quote: LaGlobal

One ship per year ??
- will not be enough for the Pacific Fleet ?? But what about the two aircraft carriers that were recently talked about ??

The article dealt only with the construction of ships in the Far East itself.

[120352]

Sorry, but corvettes are ships, not ships.

[crysalid]

A ship is the general name of any engineering structures with buoyancy, even a tanker, even an aircraft carrier, even a submarine.

[Alexander Romanov]

Chot I did not understand, but where are the atomic forces? And that the destroyer program in Russia is closed, or something

[1c-inform-city]

One can feel the talk about destroyers sliding down to the level of talk about aircraft carriers. Somewhere, someone projects something, but what and when is incomprehensible.

[LaGlobal]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

Chot I did not understand

- maybe this is an official "fake"? They say here's a misinformation to you, but by 2024 destroyers, women of Warsaw, Borei, aircraft carriers, on average, 2 - 3 pieces for the Pacific Fleet will be produced ??

- how do you think?

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: LaGlobal

- how do you think?

The thought is good, only the problem is that it is in your head, not in Shoigu's head. In short, what is there to think, the supplies will go, then we'll see, otherwise you can chat forever.

[Retx]

last year, the Ministry of Defense signed a contract for the Leader ROC to create a surface ship in the ocean zone, and this work has just begun.

[lelikas]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

Chot I did not understand, but where are the atomic forces? And that the destroyer program in Russia is closed, or something

Not closed - they just don’t know what to build again - the old projects are not the same, the new ones are expensive, in short everything is as always, that is, a sea of ​​ideas but no money, that is, money, there are ideas, it is not clear which one to implement.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

destroyer program in Russia

I understand that now it’s fashionable to call destroyers frigates, because the frigate is just a light version of the destroyer, the tasks are the same. I would like to ask knowledgeable people how the modern destroyer differs from the modern frigate, and the corvette from the watchman?

[lelikas]

Quote: Ingvar 72

I would like to ask knowledgeable people how the modern destroyer differs from the modern frigate, and the corvette from the guard

Fashionable overseas name.

[arane]

The frigate is designed to deal with air and underwater targets (frigate URO), has a displacement of 3000-6000 t. BOD are more suitable for frigate URO according to our classification (except for displacement, our missile launchers up to 7500t). Destroyers are slightly larger ships. They have a more versatile purpose. Able to combat underwater, surface and air targets, provide fire support to amphibious assault forces. In essence, the 956 destroyer is such a small cruiser

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: arane

Destroyers are slightly larger ships.

Found an interesting article on this topic.

Classification is one of the most interesting questions of the modern fleet. There is considerable inconsistency. The same combat units in different countries can be called patrol, patrol, escort ships, corvettes, frigates. In the second half of the 20th century, the same combat unit was considered a destroyer and a cruiser, a destroyer and a frigate, a frigate and a cruiser, etc., depending on the “political course”. By the end of the last century, the tendency to “lowering the level” clearly prevailed - ships that fully corresponded to the capabilities and tasks of classic cruisers (the Soviet EM of the 956 project, the American Orly Burk) were ranked as destroyers.

Today, among other things, the Russian Navy is moving away from the previously adopted classification of lower-ranking ships - small anti-submarine and missile ships, watchdogs - in favor of the Western Corvette / Frigate scheme
Read more: http://vpk-news.ru/articles/7822

It turns out just a tribute to Western fashion, such as how to call creativity a creative and monitoring control.

[silver_roman]

Well, at least in tonnage.
The same Airlie Burke will soon catch up with Tikanderogu. Recent modifications are already under 10 tons like. And to take the same 000 - 22350 tons full displacement. And a lot follows from here: the power plant power, speed, cruising range, and most importantly - weapons!
It goes without saying that with the development of technology, a lot of weight is no longer required to perform comparable tasks, but still some performance characteristics still depend on the tonnage.
So I would not level the frigates and destroyers.

[dmitrij.blyuz]

It is possible that project 21956 successfully rested in the Bose.

[fzr1000]

Uh-uh, just an explosion on the supply plan. Or was it already been planned for a long time, but Shoigu had to give a kick at the plant so that they were born faster before the arrival of the Mistral?

[3935333]

why project 877 "Varshavyanka" ??? for the Black Sea Fleet build pr 636.3 (also "Varshavyanka"). I understand that this is practically the same thing, but what exactly will they create for the Pacific Fleet, project 877 or 636.3 (or else specifically the plant itself does not know what it will pull at its facilities and specialists)? I think the author was mistaken.

[lelikas]

Quote: 3935333

(or else specifically the plant itself does not know what it will pull on its capacities and specialists)?

The customer does not know, there is no working VNEU for the boat - without it, finished projects are distorted.

[1c-inform-city]

I understand that this refers to modernized boats.

[mountain]

There are already no emotions, only questions remained. And where? And where? And most important, why?

[Andrey Yuryevich]

on the one hand, the news is not bad, on the other, another manipulation of numbers ...

[Kibalchish]

"Perfect" has been under construction since 2006. So think about how much they will rearm.

[donavi49]

There was a devastation at the factory, plus they could not establish cooperation for a long time, the products on the 2-3 of the year are late and this is the norm!

Perfect optimistic yet 2-2,5 year to do.

[silver_roman]

Quote: Kibalchish

"Perfect" has been under construction since 2006. So figure out how much they will rearm

The same garbage with Gorshkov, but atm seems to be a problem with art. I think how to figure it out, go to the test!

[poccinin]

at our Amur plant, the management must be chased in the neck, they cannot organize work in 3 shifts. they say there is no money. They gave them 7 billion for "PERFECT" and they work in one shift. but the cars "behind" the checkpoint are one more expensive than the other. The administration is there to clean so many people in the office and each computer is on the desk and the salary is more than 30 probably. In general, our salaries in the city are a mess of 10 = 000 rubles somewhere else is not much . no interest. that's all and go to the west.

[lelikas]

Quote: poccinin

at our Amur plant, the management must be chased in the neck, they cannot organize work in 3 shifts. they say there is no money. They gave them 7 billion for "PERFECT" and they work in one shift. but the cars "behind" the checkpoint are one more expensive than the other. The administration is there to clean so many people in the office and each computer is on the desk and the salary is more than 30 probably. In general, our salaries in the city are a mess of 10 = 000 rubles somewhere else is not much . no interest. that's all and go to the west.

Unfortunately, this is not only in your factory, it is almost everywhere - in hell it will break a leg from managers, deputy managers, assistant managers, then what one person did before - does five, although the volume of work has increased 1,5 times.

[Hitrovan07]

You still forgot about automation - so the volumes are really shrinking, and the staff of managers is growing. I see only one thing - the parents of the children not only matured, but also brought their children, and those of their own - in general, it is necessary to employ everyone and not work at the machine

[silver_roman]

Shoigu recently inserted a lyuley to your "managers". maybe the ice will break! At least I hope so!

[Fin]

They don't even plan to build a single atomos. Yes ... Apparently in the Far East they managed to destroy the production to the ground. After repairs "Ustinov" and "Nakhimov" should be sent to the Pacific Fleet.

[Vitaly Anisimov]

Russia is swinging as always ... until the thunder strikes ..

[Kibalchish]

But it will break out (God forbid) and there will be nothing to answer. Take an interest in the state of Pacific Fleet at your leisure.

[Vitaly Anisimov]

Quote: MIKHAN

Russia is swinging as always ... until the thunder strikes ..

It’s interesting why they only neglected me that I wrote such seditious or insulting ..? Hurray, we’re screaming early, we’re only planning to get ready .. After Syria, they gathered a group that they could, and this is not enough against the NATO armada. Again, our sailors will tear vests (in case of a mess) and stand to death ... We need new ships and urgently, but we plan everything we’re going to (and bastards are stealing ..) It’s just a shame for the men .. he criticized a little ... and felt hearty ...)))

[RONIN-HS]

There is such a thing as "personification of responsibility", IMHO, the lawyers will correct it, if that ... But you cannot already refer EVERYTHING AND EVERYTHING to the whole people. Everyone works in his place - drivers carry goods, doctors - "treat" builders are building.
And the fault for the collapse lies with specific individuals and services ... I think time will pass and they will all receive a well-deserved mark (according to the deed, or vice versa - according to inaction). It is not too late, and the number of sins has not drawn to the heavier article of the Criminal Code, THEN REMEMBER, (tv.a.r.r.i) and urgently, Mlyn, urgently start working, and not steal!

[Magyar]

Tired of empty talk, when build and adopt, then you need to shout cheers.

[gispanec]

article bullshit ..... well firstly .... for the Pacific Fleet they have already put for repair and modernization the atomic barracuda of the 945th project (all 3 in the plans) and where for the Pacific Fleet Mistral ??? ... them in the article no .... and where is the missile cruiser ... which from the North will be distilled to tof ?? ..... .....

[lelikas]

Quote: gispanec

article bullshit ....

Not quite so - we are used to the fact that all the articles on the "Fleet" are just small notes like news.

[Duke]

It seemed to me that the article was only about loading the Far Eastern shipbuilding enterprises.

[xtur]

> It seemed to me that the article was only about the loading of the Far Eastern shipbuilding enterprises.

Yes, I also thought so

[donavi49]

Even before the 24 year is unrealistic. The star will be introduced to gas workers and oil industry workers. The current capacities - Vostochnaya - are overloaded with trifles, but large ones simply cannot be overcome, Amursky - devastation at the plant and inefficient management - these two corvettes will be tormented for a long time, plus at least write off the quality of the work on their orders and this is done on money supply to the Drillers, Blagoveshchensk makes boats and non-self-propelled targets, Dalzavod ship repair,

This means that Amber will do 11356 at the Pacific Fleet (22350 for 8 years it will not be possible to collect so many new ones, given that everything under construction on the Northern Fleet is possible except for Gorshkov, who is most likely on the Baltic Fleet as the main one, closer to the medicine cabinet). 4 Corvettes can be assembled in Amurk, but they will be all-platinum.

6х636 - Admiralty will give without difficulty.

Trawls - the question is, what will the trawls be? The Navy does not know this yet. Rather, there is Alexandrite, which will be tried in 2015, but not the fact that it will take off. And so far only the Nevsky Plant can build Alexandrites, there is a matrix there, the new matrix pays off only with a good batch. There is a new project "sea trawler", which in operation and by 17-18 will be ready.

[demel2]

Quote: donavi49

, Dalzavod ship repair,

Daliavod died, now they are collecting Daewoo screwdrivers.

[donavi49]

No, he will resurrect like the Phoenix - but without shipbuilding.
http://smitsmitty.livejournal.com/131142.html

[1c-inform-city]

Unfortunately, Amber I think will be busy in the near future. There is an order for six 11356 plans for rumored three more. And there are no hints that on the Pacific Fleet, rather again on the Black Sea Fleet to ensure Middle-earth. And most importantly, India is inclined to think about ordering another three 356x and maybe six. In addition to them, Vietnam scratches behind the ear and most likely something will be combed out. The Northern shipyard will be loaded up to the throat of 20385 and 22380 because it was declared the main ship, and this is more than 20 ships. It remains to pull out the Amur CPS.

[Roman 1977]

Far Eastern shipbuilders agreed with the command of the Navy production program for the construction of ships for the Pacific Fleet. The General Director of the Amur Shipbuilding Plant (AES), Andrei Basargin, told the Minister of Defense of Russia, General of the Army Sergey Shoigu 12 of February about this.
Before 2024, four corvettes, three frigates, seven minesweepers, six diesel submarines of the Varshavyanka-type 877 project are planned to be commissioned, and repairs will be made with the modernization of the Bars-type nuclear submarine of the 971 project.
The first to be commissioned are the 20380 "Perfect" and "Loud" corvettes. The total amount of contracts for only the three ships closest to delivery is 30 billion rubles.

Boldly, boldly, I would even say very boldly ... Only at the exit is zero. At the Pacific Fleet we still have Project 1164 Varyag RRC and 4 BODs that do not leave the ocean (the Tributs is already under repair), and the Project 956 Bystryi destroyer, which is dangerous to fly far. And if other fleets are actively updating or planning to update, then only corvettes are being built for the Pacific Fleet (we will take the UDC out of the brackets for now) and those with a creak at the local shipyard. True, the Pacific Fleet received 2 Project 21980 Grachonok missiles this year, which, however, does not please much. "Alexander Nevsky" has been put into trial operation so far.
The project 20380 Corvette "Perfect", laid down in 2006 at the Amur shipyard, has not even been launched yet, although according to the state defense order it was supposed to be transferred to the fleet in 2013. Today it looks like this and I strongly doubt that it will be commissioned in this state this year. What is the situation with the second corvette of the project 20380 "Loud", laid down at the ASCZ, I do not know, but judging by the situation with the "Perfect" is clearly no better.

TARKR project 1144 "Admiral Lazarev" withdrawn from service in a state of long-term conservation, was laid up in the Abrek Bay. Here is his status as of June 2013. It is unlikely that it will be restored. Most likely on pins and needles ...

And all this against the backdrop of the rapidly growing yeast fleets of China, Japan and South Korea, which are now already inferior to the Pacific Fleet in the main surface ships and China already in the nuclear submarines.

[donavi49]

First, we must come to terms with the fact that one Pacific Fleet and the whole Navy cannot keep up with the fastest growing fleet in the World (I mean the PLA Navy).

Southerners now want to build the second three of the most powerful missile destroyers in the world (King Sizhong - 128 missiles without RAM), and they are quiet. And they cannot be called enemies or even opponents.

The Japanese are building, now they are forcing, but mainly against China. In fact, Japan and China now have an Arms Race in the Navy.

[Roman 1977]

Dear donavi49, I would like to answer you, here's what:

Quote: donavi49

First, we must come to terms with the fact that one Pacific Fleet and the whole Navy cannot keep up with the fastest growing fleet in the World (I mean the PLA Navy).

I absolutely agree with you, at such a pace, we will soon not only follow China, in general we will not keep up with anyone. For comparison: "Vladivostok" of the "Mistral" type, which is being built by the French, with a total displacement of 21 tons, laid down in February 300, launched and in November this year it is planned to transfer to the fleet. The second Sevastopol is also being built at a fairly rapid pace.

And we have a project 20380 corvette with a total displacement of 2220 tons, which has been under construction for 7-8 years. And the frigate of project 22350 has not been able to hand over to the fleet for 8 years, the same large landing craft "Ivan Gren", so already all 10, and it looks like 11, because they are going to hand over to the fleet already in 2015.
If I had my will, I would have bought 5-6 frigates of the Fremm type from them in both the air defense and the anti-aircraft defense variants, it was built for Morocco for 3 years.

But "regional barons", like Basargin, who are part of the USC, will not give it. No, they will promise mountains of gold, take money from the budget, and at the end we will get zero and another failure of the state defense order, while they will shrug their shoulders, citing reasons. In Soviet times, people were imprisoned for this ... Ships are needed now. To cover the same "Syrian Express", all combat-ready ships from all 4 fleets were scraped. Or maybe someone would argue that the 1969-built "Sharp-witted" is more modern than a Fremm-class frigate?
Comrade Stalin, whom you cannot reproach in any way for the lack of patriotism, you know, also did not hesitate to buy warships abroad. remember the heavy cruiser "Petropavlovsk", nee "Seidlitz" or the leader "Tashkent" built in Italy and nothing happened.

I’m generally silent about tsarist Russia; half of the warships in overseas shipyards were built there.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Novel 1977

I’m generally silent about tsarist Russia; half of the warships in overseas shipyards were built there.

??? Sorry for the immodest question, what did you have in mathematics school?

Quote: Novel 1977

Comrade Stalin, whom you cannot reproach in any way for the lack of patriotism, you know, also did not hesitate to buy warships abroad. remember the heavy cruiser "Petropavlovsk", nee "Seidlitz"

Well, yes - for loans issued by the Germans themselves.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

M-dya, as expected, except for the minuses - nothing

Quote: Novel 1977

I’m generally silent about tsarist Russia; half of the warships in overseas shipyards were built there.

Well, for example, out of the main ships of the fleet - 31 squadron battleships in the Russian Imperial Navy were built abroad as many as 2. We built all seven of our dreadnoughts (4 in the Baltic and 3 in the World Cup) ourselves. Russia, indeed, occasionally ordered warships abroad, but this happened mainly when its own shipyards were 100% loaded and it was no longer possible to build anything beyond what was laid down, and the ships were urgently needed (urgent strengthening of the fleet in front of the RYA). Therefore, references to the fact that they say "but under the tsar we built half a fleet abroad" - they are a little of that ... far-fetched.
The situation with "Tashkent" is even more amusing. So yes, we ordered it in Italy. A whole leader. That Vissarionych built 6 leaders and 34 large destroyers at his own shipyards - we are silent, for some reason. We remember about the purchase of "Seidlitz" (no jokes, but we really bought it with German money), about the construction of six cruisers at our own shipyards (project 26 and 26-bis) and the parallel construction of 7 more cruisers of project 68 - again forgotten
Not good overall

[PLO]

Roman 1977 reminds me of someone ..
deja vu?

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: olp

deja vu?

And who knows? :)
However, be that as it may, if we want to revive the fleet, we need to get a three-liter jar of petroleum jelly and remind all interested parties how to work and what will happen to those who do not want to work how. And do not order ships abroad.
This is harder, yes. But we really have no other options

[lelikas]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

you need to get a three-liter jar of petroleum jelly and remind all interested parties how to work and what will happen to those who don’t want to work.

In no case is Vaseline - just scrap and blowtorch!
Otherwise, they still like it.
And if you order - so "Burke" immediately.

[dmitrij.blyuz]

Insert the grease holder and periodically syringe!

[Roman 1977]

Quote: olp

Roman 1977 reminds me of someone ... deja vu?

If it `s not a secret. Whom? I hope not Serdyukov? (Joke)

Well, for example, out of the main ships of the fleet - 31 squadron battleships in the Russian Imperial Navy were built abroad as many as 2. We built all seven of our dreadnoughts (4 in the Baltic and 3 in the World Cup) ourselves. Russia, indeed, occasionally ordered warships abroad, but this happened mainly when its own shipyards were 100% loaded and it was no longer possible to build anything beyond what was laid down, and the ships were urgently needed (urgent strengthening of the fleet in front of the RYA). Therefore, references to the fact that they say "but under the tsar we built half a fleet abroad" - they are a little of that ... far-fetched

Now about tsarist Russia: 1st Pacific squadron: battleships-7 (foreign-built 2 - "Tsesarevich" and "Retvizan" are the strongest ships of the squadron); armored cruisers-4 (1 - "Bayan"), armored cruisers of the 5st rank -3 (2- "Varyag", "Askold", "Bogatyr"); 18nd rank armored cruisers - 8 (both: "Novik", "Boyarin"). That is, out of 45 large ships, 7 (3%) are foreign-built. Of the XNUMX gunboats, XNUMX incl. famous "Korean" of foreign construction.
2nd squadron battleships and coastal defense battleships-11 (all domestically built); cruiser I rank-5 (1 "Svetlana"); cruisers of the II rank - 3 (all domestically built)
Also abroad were built
A series of destroyers "Kit" ("Vigilant"), built at the shipyard of Friedrich Schichau, Elbing, Germany;
Series "Trout" ("Attentive"), built at A. Norman's plant in France;
"Lieutenant Burakov" series - "Forge & Chantier" and Norman plant, France;
The series of destroyers "Mechanical Engineer Zverev" - Shihau shipyard, Germany.
The lead destroyers of the Rider and Sokol series were built in Germany and, accordingly, in Great Britain; destroyer "Pernov" - plant A. Norman, France; Batum - Yarrow shipyard in Glasgow, UK; "Adler" - Shihau shipyard, Germany ...
Russian fleet for 1914: Battleships and battleships (all of domestic construction); Armored cruisers - 6 (2 "Rurik", "Admiral Makarov" -33%) Armored cruisers - 8 (all domestically built)
Those. and a half, I certainly bent. but a third was built for sure ...

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Novel 1977

Those. and a half, I certainly bent. but a third was built for sure ...

:)) Why, Boliarin, do not consider the Black Sea Fleet :)?

[Roman 1977]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

The situation with "Tashkent" is even more amusing. So yes, we ordered it in Italy. A whole leader. That Vissarionych built 6 leaders and 34 large destroyers at his own shipyards - we are silent, for some reason. We remember about the purchase of "Seidlitz" (no jokes, but we really bought it with German money), about the construction of six cruisers at our own shipyards (project 26 and 26-bis) and the parallel construction of 7 more cruisers of project 68 - again forgotten

We ordered it in Livorno, the Italians built it for us and it turned out to be better in comparison with our leaders of Project 1 "Leningrad". In addition, we must not forget that the destroyers of Project 7 and 7U were built on the basis of the Italian project of the Maestrale-class destroyer. At the same time, some of the destroyers received Italian control devices for artillery and torpedo fire of the "Central" type. Several installations "Central" were sent from Odessa to Leningrad to the plant "Elektropribor", where on their basis the production of domestic PUSOs began. The basis for the project of light cruisers of Project 26 (Kirov) was the theoretical drawing of the light cruiser Eugenio di Savoia of the Duca d'Aosta type of the Ansaldo company, redesigned for the installation of 180-mm B-1-P guns in three three-gun towers. And its propulsion system was a power plant and auxiliary mechanism of another Italian cruiser of the "Raimondo Montecuccoli" type (enlarged type "Condottieri"). With Italian help, the GTZA (main turbo-gear unit) was also built for the remaining five light cruisers at the Kharkov Tractor Plant.

captured Italian light cruiser "Duca d'Aosta" ("Kerch") 1950

Soviet light cruiser Kirov
In addition, in 1933 the OGPU concluded an agreement with Ansaldo for the construction of two patrol ships for the border guard of the Pacific Ocean. These ships were laid down on February 8, 1933 in Genoa under the names PS-8 and PS-26. In March 1935 they were given the names Kirov and Dzerzhinsky. The ships had a total displacement of 1161 tons. The armament of the ships was three 102/60-mm guns of the Obukhov plant system and four 45-mm semi-automatic 21 K. The fire control system - Italian the company "Galileo". Each ship was equipped with two 3-meter range finders. Ships served in Kamchatka until 1959.

Also in Italy, 45-cm and 53-cm torpedoes, 100-mm Minisini anti-aircraft installations and the Galileo fire control system as part of the Duplex KDP and a three-meter rangefinder, which were installed on the leaders of the Project 1 destroyers - Leningrad, were purchased “Moscow” and “Kharkov”.

[Roman 1977]

Now about the Germans. I hope you have not forgotten that submarines of type C, Srednyaya, Stalinets of series IX, IX bis and XVI, built in 1936-1948 (a total of 41 units were built, including the famous S-13 Marinesco) were built on the basis of a project developed by order of the Soviet side by the German-Dutch design bureau IvS (later Deshimag).
Or do you really think that the same Soviet Union could have built a heavy cruiser similar to the Seidlitz in 1940.
And after the war, Comrade Stalin did not disdain captured ships at all: the same battleship Novorossiysk (the former Italian Julius Caesar, the already mentioned Italian light cruiser Duca d'Aosta (Kerch), the German light cruiser Nuremberg "- Soviet" Admiral Makarov ", which served until 1959 (the entire USSR received 155 warships and more than 500 auxiliary ships from Germany), 11 German destroyers and destroyers; 7 Japanese destroyers, 4 gunboats, 2 BKA, 2 SKA; 2 Romanian destroyers "Regele Ferdinand" ("Dashing") and "Regina Maria" ("Flying"), 2 destroyers: "Maraheshti" ("Light") and "Marashti" ("Dexterous"), 2 TFR, a minelayer, 3 gunboats boats, 5 monitors and 1 SKA.

battleship "Novorossiysk"

light cruiser "Admiral Makarov", former "Nuremberg"

destroyer "Dashing" former "Regele Ferdinand"

Soviet landing on a German captured self-propelled ferry type "Siebel" (Siebel-Fahren)
And also submarines: 10 German submarines: 4 "sevens" ("U-1057", "U-1058", "U-1064" and "U-1305", in the Soviet fleet "N-22" ... "N -25 ", then" S-81 "..." S-84 "), one" nine "(" U-1231 ", in the Soviet fleet" N-26 ", then" B-26 "), 5 newest" electric boats "XXI and XXIII series (" U-3515 "," U-2529 "," U-3035 "," U-3041 "and" U-2353 ", Italian" babies "" SV-1 "," SV-2 "," SV-3 "," SV-4 "and" SV-6 ", and even the Romanian" Rechinul "," Marsuinul "and" Delfinul "(TC 1-3). After the war in 1947, the Finns had 265 million Finnish marks, the battleship Väinämöinen was bought, named Vyborg, which served until 1966.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Novel 1977

Now about the Germans. I hope you have not forgotten that submarines of type C, Srednyaya, Stalinets of series IX, IX bis and XVI, built in the 1936 — 1948 years (total built 41 unit, including the famous C-13 Marinesco) built on the basis of the project

That's it. Based on the German project at Soviet shipyards. And not in German shipyards.

Quote: Novel 1977

Or do you really think that the same Soviet Union could have built a heavy cruiser similar to the Seidlitz in 1940.

Honestly, there was a crappy cruiser. In fact, there was no special need to buy him; this negotiation could be regarded as a mistake.

Quote: Novel 1977

And after the war, Comrade Stalin did not disdain trophy ships at all

Why would he disdain something? But trophy ships are trophies, the USSR did not order their construction to anyone :)

[Roman 1977]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

That's it. Based on the German project at Soviet shipyards. And not in German shipyards.

That's right, especially since the German shipyards themselves were busy to the eyeballs, and the USSR did not make any plans except for the five-year ones on 22.06.1941, had 271 submarines, including the project developed by the Germans (Germany on 01.09.1939/57/XNUMX-XNUMX) .

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

Honestly, there was a crappy cruiser. In fact, there was no special need to buy him; this negotiation could be regarded as a mistake.

At that time, no one else could offer the USSR. The Soviet industry itself hardly coped with the construction of a ship of this class. Well, about the negotiation, see for yourself: in 1940 at war Germany lacks warships, especially heavy ones, and she sells the newest heavy cruiser to the non-belligerent USSR. Moreover, allegedly the USSR was ready to buy another cruiser of this project, "Seydlitz".

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

Why would he disdain something? But trophy ships are trophies, the USSR did not order their construction to anyone :)

That's right, there is no reason to disdain. "I pulled the horse out from under the foe and show off." However, neither the United States nor England brought captured German, Italian and Japanese ships into their fleet. The Americans, they were used as targets in nuclear tests, the British simply cut their own needles. Therefore, only the French used several German boats of the XXI series.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Novel 1977

At that time, no one else in the USSR could offer anything else. Soviet industry itself was unlikely to cope with the construction of a ship of this class then.

Why not? In fact, the Admiral Hipper-class cruisers were rather weakly armored and, at the same time, overly large Washingtonians with very unreliable and voracious EIs. The armament also did not strike the imagination 4 * 2-203-mm for a ship with a standard displacement of 16 thousand tons - this is not enough. What was really outstanding on them was an MSA and 105-mm stabilized anti-aircraft guns, but the fact is that all this could be purchased without a cruiser.
Perhaps it made sense to buy a ready-made cruiser (just because it was unfortunate that there were few of them), but here to take the semi-finished product on the eve of the war ... We could not get any necessary technical solutions from it and could not put it into operation on time. It would be better if they bought 88-mm anti-aircraft guns, chesslovo.

Quote: Novel 1977

However, neither the USA nor England captured German, Italian and Japanese ships in the composition of their fleet did not enter.

Naturally - why should they? The strongest freedoms of the world, they immediately allowed half of their own ships to be consumed. I exaggerate, of course, but they really didn’t know where to put their own ships, where else were they trophy? :)))
Our fleet, after the war, reduced to a nominal value, is another matter.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Novel 1977

We ordered it in Livorno, Italians built it for us, and it turned out to be better in comparison with our leaders of the 1 Leningrad project.

Which is not surprising, given the five-year eurasian in the bookmark terms

Quote: Novel 1977

In addition, we must not forget that the destroyers of the 7 and 7U project were built on the basis of the Italian project of the destroyer of the Maestrale type

Actually, the contribution of the Italian colleagues was limited to the development of a theoretical drawing (Ansaldo firm) and model run in the experimental pool in Rome.

Quote: Novel 1977

At the same time, part of the destroyers received Italian control devices for artillery and torpedo firing of the Central type. Several Central units were sent from Odessa to Leningrad to the Elektropribor plant, where the production of domestic PUSOs began on their basis.

This is not entirely true - "Central" was ordered for the leaders of project 1, and on the sevens they put TsAS-2, which were much more interesting, although yes, they were developed on the basis of the central.

Quote: Novel 1977

The basis for the project of light cruisers of Project 26 (Kirov) was the theoretical drawing of the light cruiser Eugenio di Savoia of the Duca d'Aosta type of the Ansaldo company, redesigned for the installation of 180-mm B-1-P guns in three three-gun towers.

Yeah, only we did it ourselves. And at the same time introduced a bunch of fundamental design changes (such as longitudinal-transverse set, etc.)
But really - what is all this for? You have just very convincingly painted - The USSR did not buy ships. He acquired technologies and projects, modified them and built them himself..

[silver_roman]

Russia. as the successor of the USSR, took over his pride. But I must admit. that the situation is really deplorable

[cosmos111]

Quote: Novel 1977

alignments: "Vladivostok" type "Mistral", which is being built by the French,

the Japanese, already in service with their helicopter carriers ((((
aircraft carriers will soon be built (((
it is necessary to answer with something >>>> ships under construction for TF, obviously not enough (((
Japanese Helicopter Carrier - Hyuga (((

helicopter-uh-xnumx

[Roman 1977]

Quote: donavi49

Southerners now want to build the second three of the most powerful missile destroyers in the world (King Sizhong - 128 missiles without RAM), and they are quiet. And they cannot be called enemies or even opponents.

The Southerners fleet is still imprisoned against the DPRK fleet, which it covers like a bull to a sheep.
Again for comparison:
The flagship of the North Korean fleet is the patrol ship "Najin", two were built in total: in 1973 and 1975, on the basis of the Soviet TFR project 50 of the late 40s, one was supposedly already scrapped. Full displacement-1500 tons, armed with 2 anti-ship missiles P-15 of the 60s, 2x1 100-mm AU B-34, 2x2 57-mm AU, 2x2 30-mm AU AK-230, 6x2 25-mm AU 2M-3M , 2 bombs, 30 min. That is, there is practically no air defense except for universal guns with manual guidance and two ancient anti-ship missiles.

For comparison: the South Korean destroyer King Sedzhon the Great, built in 2008-2012, a total of 3 were built, another 3 are being built. Destroyers of the King Sedzhon type are analogous to American destroyers of the Arli Burke type with a large displacement. Total displacement of 10 tons. Armament: 290 UVP Mk-2 VLS for 41 and 48 cells, respectively (up to 32 KR Hyunmoo III).

In addition, do not forget South Korea’s territorial problems with Japan over the Dokdo Islands (the South Korean helicopter carrier is named after them). I do not consider the South Koreans to be either enemies or rivals, nevertheless I would prefer that the Pacific Fleet surpass the fleet of the Republic of Kazakhstan, and so far in the region our fleet surpasses only the DPRK fleet and is approximately equal to the Taiwan fleet.

Quote: donavi49

The Japanese are building, now they are forcing, but mainly against China. In fact, Japan and China now have an Arms Race in the Navy

I will not dispute the obvious fact. But do not forget that Japan has real territorial problems with Russia. China is booming and is also looking with interest at the Far East and Siberia.

[Roman 1977]

Imagine a hypothetical situation, next week the same Japan demands from Russia to hand over the Kuril Islands to it, threatening to seize them by force otherwise. And how can we answer her? Pacific Fleet: 1 RRC project 1164 "Varyag", 4 BODs of project 1155 (1 "Tributs" under repair until 2015), 1 destroyer of project 956, 2 "batons" of project 949A "Tver" and "Omsk", 1 nuclear submarine of project 971 " Samara ", 6 diesel-electric submarines of project 877, 4 MRK of project 1234, 8 MPK of project 1124M, 11 RCA of project 1241.
It doesn't seem to you that it somehow does not look very serious against the background of the Japanese: 16 diesel-electric submarines (5 newest Soryu-class, 11 Oyashio-class), 2 Hyuga-class helicopter carriers, carry 4 helicopters, can be used both as PLO ships and for amphibious purposes; 39 destroyers (2 "Atago", 4 "Congo", 2 EMV "Shirane", 2 "Hatakaze", 2 "Akitsuki", 5 "Takanami", 9 "Murasame", 8 "Asagiri ", 5" Hatsuyuki ", in some sources are qualified as frigates); 6 frigates of the" Abakuma "type; 3 UDC of the" Osumi "type;
Maybe other fleets will help practically all the running surface ships of the 1st-2nd rank of the Northern Fleet now in Mediterranean: "Peter the Great" and "Kuznetsov" with "Admiral Levchenko". Well, maybe they will join
BOD "Severomorsk", "Kulakov" and the destroyer "Admiral Ushakov". "Chabanenko" in sludge, is preparing for repairs, which will begin at the beginning of this year (steep hills have been rolled up).
BF: only "Persistent" and "Yaroslav the Wise" and "Fearless" are being repaired at "Yantar", and "Fearless" until the end of 2015, their poor fellows were also "driven".
Black Sea Fleet: "Moscow" and "Pytlivy" of project 1135M, without anti-ship missiles and with outdated air defense, well, maybe once again "grandfather" "Sharp-witted" will shake the old days, though they said that it was an extreme campaign for him in Mediterranean, but 8 " Mosquitoes "are not a joke anyway. And that's it!

Map of the presence of surface ships 1-2 of the rank of the Russian Navy in the World Ocean according to 10.02.2014 data (clickable)
That is, what we have at the output: 1 TAKR with 12 Su-27K, 1 TARKR "Peter the Great", 1 RRC project 1164, 3 BOD project 1155, 2 destroyers of project 956 (these are unlikely due to problems with engines ), 1 SKR project 01990 and 1 SKR project 1135M. Even Tsar Nicholas 2 sent more ships to Tsushima ...

[Serg65]

[quote = Roman 1977] Imagine a hypothetical situation, the same Japan next week demands Russia to hand over the Kuril Islands to it, threatening to otherwise seize them by force. And how can we answer her? [quote] [/ quote]
And what is that? There was already such a situation in 45, then the Pacific Fleet, after transferring part of the ships and personnel to the operating fleets, also looked like a cuto, but they answered !!! Do you think that the fleet alone will reflect the aggression of the Japanese? If, besides constantly frightening Japanese, strategists cutting circles in the circle of Japan, admire Iskanders on tour on Kunashir, doesn’t that mean brave Japanese sailors ??

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Serg65

And what is that? There was already such a situation in 45, then the Pacific Fleet, after transferring part of the ships and personnel to the operating fleets, also looked like a cuto, but they answered !!!

No one answered, because no one "ran over" In April 1945, the last nichon-kaigun ships for which there was still enough fuel left for Okinawa (the last Yamato campaign) and refueling was one way.
Japan still had some ships, but there was nothing to refuel them, the Japanese fleet did not participate in battles with the USSR 1945.
Well, now ...

[donavi49]

Well, this is not so simple - the fleet is at war with the fleet only in the distant ocean. When working from the Kuril Islands, our chances are great even with the forces of the Pacific Fleet. All the same, the PGRK will work, the mosquito forces are as efficient as possible, all types of aircraft (and on the 2-3 the day already has Su-34 from the European part), and the Japanese have good 6 ships with Standard and Aegis and just a couple with Standard.

[cosmos111]

Quote: donavi49

The Japanese are building, now they are forcing, but mainly against China. In fact, Japan and China now have an Arms Race in the Navy.

all countries are developing their fleets (((
Turkey chose an ambitious project, the construction of four frigates worth 4 billion $ (((
The project, frigates TF2000, was developed by 2000 year ((((

[silver_roman]

On a photo 1144 it is direct to look painful. Well, at least they decided to upgrade the second eagle.

[gispanec]

Quote: Duke

It seemed to me that the article was only about loading the Far Eastern shipbuilding enterprises.

re-read ..... thought .... drank coffee ..... digested ... and lo and behold ... the article really says ONLY about loading Far Eastern shipbuilders ..... I beg your pardon for what I said above .. .

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: gispanec

re-read ..... thought .... drank coffee ..... digested ... and lo and behold ... the article really says ONLY about loading Far Eastern shipbuilders ...

Finally! And I already thought that I was the only one so attentive :)))
The article is not about the shipbuilding program for the Pacific Fleet, but only about that part of it that will be implemented by the Far Eastern enterprises

[colonel manuch]

We are building very slowly. Maybe Sergey Kozhukhetovich has turned the "tail" for effective managers, so at least they will start to move, and most importantly, we have lagged behind the technological equipment of the CVD over the years! This is what the seizure of strategically important industries by fools and "fifth column" means.

[samoletil18]

The specified "contribution" to the Pacific Fleet, judging by the article from the Far Eastern factories. And they keep quiet about others? Or is there nothing to wait?

[Saburo]

Yeah, four corvettes, three frigates, repair one submarine by ... 2024. Yes, now the 7th fleet will surely tremble with fear.

[demel2]

No Kuzhugetych will wean the managers to steal, he will not find many thousands of turners, milling workers, that is, highly qualified specialists, shipbuilders, only Comrade Stalin can do this. , which I doubt, then we will discuss.

[Bene valete]

I agree with you on 100%.
In the Far East, there are practically no Really Live Shipbuilding Plants, there are only Phantoms of the Great Past ... imitating construction or repair.
And most importantly, it suits all and local authorities. Some beautiful statements every six months, but there is no real progress ...
The NEA itself tumbles in its own juice .. in ten years, in my opinion, 8 directors have changed!
Well, what's to make Moscow laugh with s..mi from 2006 to 2014 ... - 8 years have been building a "boat" with a displacement of 2000 tons, and the end of construction is not visible at all (((

[Bene valete]

I agree with you on 100%.
In the Far East, there are practically no Really Live Shipbuilding Plants, there are only Phantoms of the Great Past ... imitating construction or repair.
And most importantly, it suits all and local authorities. Some beautiful statements every six months, but there is no real progress ...
The NEA itself tumbles in its own juice .. in ten years, in my opinion, 8 directors have changed!
Well, what's to make Moscow laugh with s..mi from 2006 to 2014 ... - 8 years have been building a "boat" with a displacement of 2000 tons, and the end of construction is not visible at all (((

[Al_lexx]

Basargin also proposed that the government create one of the two naval shipbuilding centers in Russia on the basis of the enterprise.

This is the main thing.
Well, let's pray ...

[gallville]

Are they kidding?
4 ships of 2 thousand tons.
3 ships of 4 thousand tons.
auxiliary vessels
and as many as 6 diesel submarines ?!
The invincible fleet will turn out their opponent in the ocean simply will not find
Moreover, in 2024 there will be few survivors from the backlog of the USSR.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: gallville

Are they kidding?

Again. The article is not about the total number of ships that should replenish the Pacific Fleet, only about the ships that receive Pacific Fleet from the Far Eastern shipbuilders.

[Shot off]

Citizens, the news is not complete, this is only one plant in Komsomolsk-on-Amur will release all this. The rest is not mentioned. Yesterday there, I inserted Shoigu Pendel and the news on vpk-news.ru skipped.

[altman]

The situation in the Far East is simply nasty .. And the number of ships under construction for the Pacific Fleet is simply criminally small .. Is it really impossible to establish an effective ship repair work, at least as on "Zvezdochka"?

[Leshka]

not enough

[moremansf]

Ships are definitely needed, but we must not forget about the infrastructure ... there is practically no infrastructure at the Pacific Fleet, it is necessary to create, and this is also time and considerable costs ... The enemy does not sleep, which means we need to move ... The command at the Pacific Fleet is competent, everything pupils of the Northern Fleet, great practical experience, but without state support "you cannot move mountains" and the trip of the RF Ministry of Defense to Primorye gives every reason to believe that the Pacific Fleet will be revived and will take its rightful place in the defense shield of Russia ...

[dmitrij.blyuz]

I hope that Shoigu didn’t just go for a drive to DV Chepiki, to the right place, some people were inserted. Work should go. Kuzhegetych just doesn’t hang around the country.

[Stinger]

The rate of destruction is three times higher than the rate of recovery.
Data on submarines from the site http://oosif.ru/tihookeanskiy-flot
1990 year:
19th brigade submarine Pacific Fleet (Vladivostok, Ulysses Bay)
28th submarine division of the Sakhalin fleet Pacific Fleet (Sov.havan)
??. ??. 90 - The 28th division was reorganized into the 366th division of a sludge.
420th Division of the Pacific Fleet Submarine (Magadan, Nagaev Bay)
4th Flotilla of Submarine Pacific Fleet (Pavlovsky Bay)
21st submarine division of the 4th flotilla of the Pacific Fleet submarine (Pavlovsky Bay)
26st submarine division of the 4th flotilla of the Pacific Fleet submarine (Pavlovsky Bay)
29th submarine division of the 4th flotilla of submarine Pacific Fleet (Shell)
2nd Flotilla Submarine Pacific Fleet (Vilyuchinsk)
8th submarine division of the 2nd flotilla of the nuclear submarine Pacific Fleet (Vilyuchinsk)
10th submarine division of the 2nd flotilla of the nuclear submarine Pacific Fleet (Vilyuchinsk)
25th submarine division of the 2nd flotilla of the nuclear submarine Pacific Fleet (Vilyuchinsk)
45th submarine division of the 2nd submarine flotilla (Vilyuchinsk)
182nd separate brigade of submarines of Pacific Fleet (Bichevinka)
2012 year:
19th brigade submarine Pacific Fleet (Vladivostok, Ulysses Bay)
16th squadron of submarines of Pacific Fleet (Vilyuchinsk)
10th submarine division of the 16th submarine squadron of the Pacific Fleet (Vilyuchinsk)
25th submarine division of the 16th submarine squadron of the Pacific Fleet (Vilyuchinsk)
182nd separate brigade of the submarine Pacific Fleet (Zavoyko Bay)

[Khan]

It is interesting who they will build specialists and there are no skilled workers, or they are of retirement age. And if anyone has remained I don’t think that they will. The state does not support specialists and the working class has thrown them many times.

[darksoul]

every time they shoot new phrases, I'm already confused)))

[Semen Semyonitch]

Where are the ships of the first rank? Gone as a class ???

[marder4]

plans plans, but where is the real hardware?

[kris]

Quote: marder4

plans plans, but where is the real hardware?

bullion in banks!

[Puffed up]

It’s time to understand, the Orthodox, that they don’t need an IM fleet then a Russian fleet in the Far East. But the Chinese need the Far East and Siberia.

[kirpich]

The more I read, the more sad. Corvettes, frigates ... well, I don’t understand these foreign classifications. I’m dearer a destroyer, a guard, a BOD, an IPC ..., etc.

[Watchman]

The Amur plant is certainly not the North Shipyard, but 8 years to build a corvette is criminal negligence and corruption, as well as recognition of the plant in its own insolvency!

[tundra]

I didn’t know where to write, otherwise I’m looking at the SVERDLOVENKA offended. But in vain fellow countrymen I wanted the best ... I’m Tagilsky and I’m not letting my own go ..... but the thing is that he freaked out ... Well, they do everything in the Urals with quality ... well, it happens .... but me here they got it .... and you s offended offended or something countrymen We will still fight

[kirpich]

That dumb man, zemlyak

[red-dog2]

her mom! and no real large ship. A shame!