Great Warrior and Defender "Iskander"

192
According to Western military and political experts, high accuracy in combination with the range of the Iskander missile and television complex guarantees the Russian military the defeat of even well-defended targets in Europe. “They can’t be stopped or shot down,” say Western analysts.

Since its establishment in 2009, the High-Precision Complexes holding has achieved great success in the Russian and international markets. Products of the holding's enterprises are well known not only to users, but also to their opponents. According to some information, it was the Syrian “Pantsir” that shot down the Turkish phantom reconnaissance aircraft that invaded the airspace of this Arab country. Anti-tank missile systems "Cornet" were fatal weapons for Israeli tanks in Lebanon. Over five years, the Kornet ATGM has become one of the most popular anti-tank warfare systems in the world, and its new version with the ability to combat UAVs has already found its buyer. In 2013, the High-Precision Complexes included a unique enterprise, the manufacturer of the latest Iskander high-precision operational-tactical missile system, the Engineering Design Bureau from the city of Kolomna.

During the press conference of Russian President Vladimir Putin 19 last December, one of the first was asked: did Russia really deploy Iskander tactical missile systems in the Kaliningrad region? Prior to this, December 15 German newspaper Bild, referring to the data of space intelligence, said that the Russian PRTR was seen not only in Kaliningrad, but also along the borders with the Baltic countries. The result was a local political crisis with hot remarks by European and American politicians and experts under the slogan "Russians are coming!" Vladimir Putin, answering reporters, said that the decision to deploy OTRK in Kaliningrad has not yet been made. Also, the Russian president said: "In its segment, it is the most effective weapon in the world."

Just like the Oka, Temp-S and Pioneer missile systems, the Iskander has now turned from a military tool into a military-political tool. It is noteworthy that the US military attributed the newest operational-tactical complex to armament, "prohibiting access to the theater of military operations," that is, capable of only by its presence significantly affect the distribution of forces in the area of ​​possible conflict and prevent its onset.

The operational-tactical complex "Iskander" remains one of the most mysterious weapons systems in the arsenal of the Russian army and information about it is scarce.

Atomic storm over Europe

If you look closely at the weapons and military equipment of the armies of the developed countries of the world, it is immediately evident that operational-tactical missile systems have found limited use there. In modern armies, they are more focused on shock Aviation with high precision weapons. Although back in the 80s and 90s there were quite a lot of OTRKs in the arsenal of the same US army, their number and all the more their quality could not be compared with the Elbrus operational tactical complexes that were in service with the armies of the USSR and the Warsaw Treaty Organization countries , "Temp-S", "Point" and "Eye". Why is the Soviet, now Russian military leadership relies on the OTRK?

Great Warrior and Defender "Iskander"
Andrei Sedykh collage


For the answer to this question, we turned to the historian, author of books and articles on the opposition of NATO, the USSR and the Department of Internal Affairs Yevgeny Putilov. “Unlike aviation, which was experiencing restrictions on weather conditions and the need to pre-conduct complex organization of air operations, rocket complexes could be used for nuclear strikes immediately. The enemy had no defense against ballistic missiles. ”

According to Yevgeny Putilov, the basis for the hostilities in Europe should have been strategic operations carried out by coalition front groups according to a single plan and under a single command. “It was supposed,” he argues, “that the depth of a frontal offensive operation will be up to one thousand kilometers, and the average speed of advance will be up to 100 km / day for a combined-arms army and even to 120 km / day for a tank army. The achievement of such rates was ensured by the destruction of the enemy’s battle formations simultaneously with the tactical nuclear weapons to the entire depth of the frontal offensive operation. ”

Yevgeny Putilov also explained that since there were practically no nuclear weapons for artillery in the Soviet army before the beginning of 70-s, the front-line and army tactical missile systems were the main carrier of nuclear weapons.
Andrei Sedykh collage


“This is well seen in the example of the front, which was advancing from the territory of Bulgaria,” the historian states. - Here, superiority in aviation was on the enemy's side, although the front had to advance within three to four days to a depth of 150 – 185 kilometers, and then within a week to perform a further task to a depth of 220 kilometers with crossing the Black Sea straits. Operational-tactical missile systems with nuclear weapons were the main means of hacking the enemy’s defenses on mountain passes and narrows. ”

The Soviet OTRK became the “nuclear club” that paved the way for the combined-arms units. Tracking and destroying them for Western countries was very difficult. NATO was saved only by low accuracy and relatively short range of shooting by the army PTRK 9K72 "Elbrus" and divisional "Luna". But the situation changed when the long-range Temp-S was transferred from the Strategic Missile Forces to the Ground Forces, and high-precision Oka OTRK was put into service for the army and front-line missile brigades.

“After the transfer from the Strategic Missile Forces to the Ground Forces in 1970K9 Temp-S, the front-line commanders were able to hit targets from the first day to the full depth of the offensive objectives,” notes Yevgeny Putilov. “Next lay the line of demarcation of nuclear strikes by strategic and operational-tactical means and the goals were already within the competence of the Strategic Missile Forces.”

According to Oleg Kovshar, editor-in-chief of the Internet Project “Military Frontier”, the command of the Oka and Temp-S types was careful: “The preliminary planning of a nuclear strike at the operational level involved only 10 – 15 percents of these OTRKs,” our interlocutor states. - The main burden lay on medium-range missiles - they were connected to the nuclear facility, including for the operational level. Available RSD and OTRK like 9K72 allowed it. The main number of Oka and Temp-S complexes was to start work after the conflict began, that is, to receive target designation in the course of the development of the situation on newly identified targets, such as NATO nuclear attack means, heliports, troop accumulations and so on. d.

By the middle of 80-ies, the troops of the USSR and the Warsaw Pact countries began testing the first reconnaissance-strike complexes based on the Oka and Temp-S OTRK, target designations for which were issued ground-based and aviation reconnaissance, and later satellite systems. Given that the time to prepare for the launch, the introduction of the flight task and the launch itself was within 20 minutes for both complexes, the identified object was destroyed in the period from 30 minutes to one hour. It is noteworthy that at the beginning of the 80-s, special combat units in the OTRK arsenals pushed cluster warheads. The positions of the American ballistic Pershing-2 and ground-based Tomahawk missiles also came under attack from the Oka and Temp complexes. In this situation, US President Ronald Reagan initiated negotiations to reduce medium-range and short-range missiles, which ended with the signing of December 8 by the 1987 of the Permanent Treaty on the Elimination of Intermediate-Range and Short-Range Missiles.

“The official motivation of the Americans in demanding the reduction of the 9K714 Oka missile system within the framework of the INF Treaty was that the American missile of the same size could have an 500 range of kilometers,” says the historian Yevgeny Putilov. - The Soviet "Oka" on tests showed the maximum range of 407 kilometers. However, the position of Soviet negotiators allowed the Americans to demand a unilateral reduction of the Oka complexes under the slogan “You promised.” What was done.

Under the conditions of the limitation of the INF Treaty, the command of the Armed Forces of the USSR in 1987 year formulated the requirements for a prospective OTRK capable of hitting well-protected targets with missiles with both nuclear and conventional warheads in conditions of enemy counteraction, and not only stage of its preparation and exit to the starting position. This complex was designed in 1987 by the Kolomna machine-building design bureau on its own initiative by order and under the guidance of chief designer Sergei Pavlovich Invincible, the Iskander complex.

The birth of a warrior

“At first, there was the 8K14 rocket,” says Dmitry Kornev, the chief editor of the Militaryrussia Internet project. - Appearing at the dawn of the 50s based on the German V-2, by the end of the decade, the rocket formed the basis of the already effective Elbrus missile system 9K72. At the turn of the 50 – 60-ies came the awareness of the effectiveness of new areas - troop (tactical), army and front-line missile systems, as well as such Western innovations as solid-fuel missiles. And a wide front began work on several types of complexes. ”

According to the expert, the OKB-60 GKAT (the future Torch) came forward with a fairly revolutionary project in the middle of 2, which proposed the creation of the Hawk and Tochka military missile complexes based on the B-611 anti-aircraft missile. But they were waiting for air defense and missile defense systems from OKB-2, so at the end of 60-s, work on the ground direction in the design bureau was curtailed, and the documentation on the “Point” was transferred to Kolomna machine-building design bureau.

“By the end of the 60-ies, effective mobile chassis, compact and increasingly precise inertial control systems, efficient mixed solid fuel and engines based on it, compact nuclear warheads were created in the USSR. The creation of reconnaissance-strike complexes was on the agenda. Therefore, a real boom has occurred in 70 – 80s in the field of short-range missiles, ”Kornev told the publication.

The expert also explained that in 1972, due to the workload of MITA on the creation of Temp-2C mobile ICBMs, the draft design of the 9КХNUMX "Uran" complex was transferred for revision to the KB machine-building industry (KBM), where the 711К9 rocket complex was created on its basis "Oka". Then the triumphal march of KBM began in the segment of short-range ballistic missile systems.

“9K714“ Oka ”with a range of up to 500 kilometers gradually transformed into 9K717“ Oka-U ”, which was supposed to grow to“ Volga ”with a range of about 1000 kilometers. On the basis of these complexes, the Volodymyr KBM research and development complex, by the end of 80's - the beginning of 90's, planned to create an entirely new class of rocket weapons - a unified universal modular rocket system that could be used in the interests of divisions, armies and different types of rocket fronts, receiving target designation from different sources, ”continued Kornev.

According to the expert, on the “Wave” it was planned to introduce the re-targeting of missiles in flight, according to information from aviation and other “eyes and ears” of reconnaissance-strike complexes. But the INF Treaty intervened.

“Initially, the creators of the new Iskander two-missile tactical complex 9K715 set themselves the goal of creating a system capable of destroying (with two missiles) an important target at a distance from 70 to 300 kilometers. The development of technology has allowed several times to reduce the outfit of the funds necessary to defeat important goals. This is a comparison with the Elbrus 9K72 complexes that were in service, which Iskander was supposed to replace in the 80's. But the signing of the INF Treaty has made adjustments to the development of rocket systems in our country, and Iskander became Iskander-M — the way we know it now, ”concluded Dmitry Kornev.

From rocket to modular system

Work on the Iskander complex began in 1988. Surprisingly, the collapse in 1991 of the USSR slightly influenced the creation of a new OTRK. In the summer of 1991, the first throwing launches at the Kapustin Yar training ground took place, and in 1992 the Volgograd Titan plant presented the first chassis for the new complex. But in 1993, work on the Iskander shifted to the creation of a "multi-purpose modular missile system of the ground forces," known as the Iskander-M.

The newest operational-tactical complex became the pinnacle of creativity of the chief designer of KBM Sergey Pavlovich the Invincible, to which he went, creating “Point”, “Oku”, “Oku-M”, etc. The newest “Iskander” embodied all the experience and skills of its creator .

“At present, KBM is only improving the Iskander, improving the work of its units and mechanisms, putting new radio-electronic equipment, sighting systems, etc. Sergei Pavlovich the Unbeatable did the rest, developing the unified universal modular missile system Iskander,” the Military Military -industrial courier "Dmitry Kornev.

The new OTRK must hit targets not only with conventional ballistic missiles with different warheads, but also with cruise missiles. In 1995, the first experimental launcher on the Belarusian MZKT chassis appeared and the missile launches began. In 1997, complex tests started at the Kapustin Yar test site, which ended in 2004 with the adoption of the Iskander-M operational-tactical complex for the Russian Army. The very next year, the first complexes entered service with the 630-th separate missile division of the 60-th Combat Use Center in Kapustin Yar. In the same year, the Iskander PTRK export model project was presented. It was named Iskander-E (export) and differed from a Russian product in a launcher for one missile with a reduced range instead of two in the Iskander-M variant.

Until this year, several rocket brigades have been re-armed to the new complex.

Work on the cruise missile started back in 1999-m. After the state tests in 2007, the P-500 was put into service. Initially it was assumed that a new modification, the Iskander-K, would be created under the cruise missile. Several times the “K” variant appeared at various weapons exhibitions, causing genuine interest of foreign buyers. But apparently, cruise missiles will be delivered only to the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation.

According to KBM Director General Valery Kashin, five types of missiles, both aeroballistic and cruise, have already been developed and put into service, three more are under development. It is noteworthy that in the Iskander ammunition there are missiles with penetrating warheads for the destruction of bunkers and other enemy fortifications.

The armament of the likely enemy also does not stand still, new anti-air and anti-missile defense systems appear. Now the American Patriot has passed a significant modernization and is capable of striking aeroballistic targets. The US Navy, which received the upgraded SM-2 and SM-3 anti-missiles, is not far behind. Naval and land systems constitute a single integrated missile defense system in the theater of operations. But the Russian side also has the answer. According to a number of media reports, missiles for the Iskander complex have received systems for overcoming enemy antimissile defense. Such measures, implemented in the Oka OTRK, are passive and active jamming systems hidden in the rocket body. When approaching the target, dipole reflectors, small jammers, etc. are separated from the rocket.

NATO Headache

The newest Iskander-M operational tactical complexes are being used not only by district (front) command and subunit rocket brigades, but also by brigades subordinate to the combined-arms army headquarters, replacing reliable, but already outdated Tochka-U tactical missile systems. .

According to an independent military expert, one of the authors of the book “Tanks of August” devoted to the Russian-Georgian conflict in August 2008, Anton Lavrov, “Iskander” with its markedly increased accuracy and range compared to the “Point-U” brigades. At the disposal of the Ground Forces, for the first time after the failure of the INF, there appears its own long arm, capable of striking at the enemy’s key small-sized objects in its deep rear practically to the entire depth of front-line aviation.

“In today's conflict, Iskander-M will take on the tasks reduced under the INF Treaty of Tempus-S and the Pioneers, while possessing the Oka long-range characteristics,” suggested the chief editor of the Internet project “Military Frontier Oleg Kovshar.

According to Western experts, the Iskander-M operational tactical missile system, with its high precision and an arsenal of missiles for all occasions, will find worthy use not only in a big war, but also in a local conflict to destroy bases, places of concentration, and fortified militant positions. And in combination with the latest Russian reconnaissance systems of the complex missiles, you can hit targets in real time.

Interested in the procurement of the newest complex and some foreign countries. But, according to Andrei Frolov, editor-in-chief of the Export and Armament magazine, due to the negative reaction of the West and the INF Treaty, it is unlikely that these negotiations will be known before the transaction is made. “The countries of the CIS are interested in these complexes, in particular Armenia, Belarus. Perhaps even Ukraine to replace their "points-U". Also Iskander-E may be of interest to Iran or Iraq, ”Frolov suggested.

The newest Iskander-M complex produced by the machine-building design bureau took a worthy place in the arsenal of the Russian army. The complex will cope not only with a high-tech adversary, but also with militants in local conflicts. The company, headed by Valery Kashin, continues to improve the OTRK, in its arsenal there are the latest not only aeroballistic, but also cruise missiles. The leadership of the KBM and its employees were able in a short time to create a unique weapon system, which was highly appreciated by the domestic and foreign military, as well as the president of Russia. Now that KBM has become part of the holding company NPO High-Precision Complexes, which has allowed for the formation of a closed loop control when creating high-precision weapons of the operational and tactical zone of general-purpose forces, the work on Iskander will reach a new level, making OTRK destructive and universal .
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  1. +6
    15 February 2014 07: 24
    I saw the prototype of Iskander in the Cap.Yar in the 90th year, even then he was called that.
    1. Fedya
      0
      16 February 2014 00: 03
      Prototype and not a prototype!
      1. MKV
        MKV
        -7
        16 February 2014 13: 57
        GREAT WARRIOR AND DEFENDER ISKANDER

        laughing laughing laughing

        When the Russian commanders say that they will put Iskander in the Kaliningrad region, it just makes me laugh: to scare THAAD with Iskander, it’s not even "to scare a hedgehog with his bare ass", it’s to scare her a huge porcupine!

        Iskander gas rudders stop working after engine burnout. Then the rocket flies in discharged layers like a shell, according to ballistics.
        Iskander has no "shunting engines".

        At an altitude of 20 km, the air density will be 0.0725 from density near the ground (in 14 times less), at an altitude of 50 km - 0,000878 from density near the ground (in 1139 times less!). About the possibility of maneuvering with overloads at an altitude of 50 km - there is nothing even to dream of! Nothing to rely on there.

        So Iskander-M will be just an easy, creepy catch for THAAD, he will shoot down Iskander with packs of wheelbarrows, train-trains!

        laughing laughing laughing
        1. +2
          16 February 2014 20: 02
          Feel better? fool Tell the Poles about it!
  2. +17
    15 February 2014 07: 33
    It is nice to know that in negotiations with potential opponents we have a trump card ...
    1. AVV
      +8
      16 February 2014 14: 36
      Quote: Sergey7311
      It is nice to know that in negotiations with potential opponents we have a trump card ...

      When they cut the Oka, it was bitter to realize that the traitor Gorb. Went to please Reagan and surrendered with giblets, the best complex of that time, which had no analogues in the world !!! Although he did not fall under the INF Treaty !!! Well, that Invincible is not dropped his hands and created a masterpiece even better than before !!! This is a man, a designer with a capital letter !!! Russia will always be proud of such people !!!
  3. +15
    15 February 2014 08: 29
    And "Iskander" for the USA and Europe is a sickle for eggs wassat
    1. +5
      15 February 2014 19: 18
      I want to note - their eggs too grown!
      Need to shorten! hi
      1. -1
        15 February 2014 19: 50
        Too dangerous for yourself ---- if only for 500km
        1. silaichev
          +1
          17 February 2014 06: 23
          And they told you the whole truth, yeah right now !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      2. 0
        15 February 2014 22: 47
        Very sagging, s, 100% drinks
    2. -7
      15 February 2014 19: 49
      280km is a sickle, and with a nuclear charge, it’s its own balls.
    3. postman
      +3
      16 February 2014 12: 23
      Quote: papik09
      it's a sickle for eggs

      they have their own "sickle"
      MGM-168A ATACMS Block 4A
      block III - R&D on the creation of a new solid-fuel engine, which, with the same dimensions of the OTR ATACMS, which makes it possible to launch it from the M270 launcher, increases its firing range to 500 km
      + R&D on the creation of a naval version of the missile system, which received the designation NTACMS, everything is "ready" to use the modified vertical launch units Mk41 (URO cruisers of the Ticonderoga type and destroyers of the URO type Orly Burke. And for multipurpose submarines and SSBNs like Ohio)

      + R&D of the mobile lightweight version of ATACMS, designated HIMARS (Hight Mobility Artillery Rocket System)
  4. -49
    15 February 2014 09: 06
    The "great warrior" did not participate in any battle, but already a great one. Just like the Tsar cannon. fellow

    According to Western military and political experts, high accuracy combined with the flight range of the Iskander OTRK missiles guarantees the Russian military the defeat of even well-defended targets in Europe.

    Can you refer to the statements of these experts? It is very interesting to read how they motivate "the defeat of even well-protected targets" with a warhead weighing 470 kg, and even guaranteed.

    According to some reports, it was the Syrian "Shell" that shot down the Turkish Phantom reconnaissance aircraft that invaded the airspace of this Arab country.

    According to other sources, Israel missed several times.

    The Cornet anti-tank missile systems proved to be a deadly weapon for Israeli tanks in Lebanon.

    The Russian president claimed that there were no Cornets in Lebanon. Lying? wink

    It was impossible to write a normal article, without this pathos?
    1. +40
      15 February 2014 09: 34
      Quote: professor
      It was impossible to write a normal article, without this pathos?

      prof, this is not pathos, here is "pathos". to your pathos and eternal contempt for everything Russian as before China on a lame mare.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. +1
        15 February 2014 22: 47
        ... or to Kiev crustaceans ... laughing
    2. +16
      15 February 2014 09: 50
      Quote: professor
      The Russian president claimed that there were no Cornets in Lebanon. Lying?

      Dear colleague O. Sokolov, one should not uselessly cast a shadow on the pretender. Putin (then) argued that the "Cornets" were not supplied by Russian government agencies to Lebanon, and was telling the truth request .
      1. -20
        15 February 2014 09: 56
        On February 10, 2007 in Munich, Putin said: “In Lebanon, yes. boxes from under our anti-tank systems. It's true. Our Israeli partners immediately informed me of this. We conducted a thorough investigation of what was happening there. And they found that these systems remained in Lebanon after the Syrian army left it. We have carried out appropriate work with the Syrian partners and conditioned our further cooperation in the field of military-technical cooperation with Syria with the necessary conditions that would exclude the possibility of weapons falling into anyone's hands, except for those for whom they were intended. Such a system has been worked out. We also agreed on a system of possible inspections at warehouses at any convenient time for Russian specialists. In warehouses after delivering our systems to Syria. "
        laughing

        Speech and discussion at the Munich Conference on Security Policy
        1. +11
          15 February 2014 11: 11
          How does this contradict the words

          "Cornets" were not supplied by Russian government agencies to Lebanon, and spoke the truth


          Left by the Syrians. Russians were not supplied. More questions?
          1. MACCABI TLV
            -15
            15 February 2014 11: 21
            there is a question! Are you familiar with the concept of "re-export"? and by whom and how is it controlled? thanks in advance.
            1. 0
              17 February 2014 16: 56
              Are you familiar with the concept of "re-export"?


              It's familiar. Is the proverb "How it comes around, so it will respond" familiar? Russian traditional. In the case of Israel, it was the United States that was the first to get involved in the "game", the USSR went for the Arab world on the principle of "the enemy of my enemy." So that they do not ... eat mattresses or the Israelis themselves. Initially, Egypt and Syria were not strategic targets. And "he called himself a load - get into the box" (yes, the day of proverbs today laughing ). Your "friends" use less civilized occasions. If Hezbollah is, in fact, an unrecognized political force claiming power over Lebanon and not a Mujahideen in any way, then their opponents are just the Mujahideen, Sunni fundamentalists. If you call a spade a spade, then "Hezbollah" are the same terrorists as the Egyptians, Syrians and the Israelis themselves (first of all, I put you here because of Palestine). And Russian suppliers did not deliver anything to Hezbollah. But Syria is their ally, and left, of course, deliberately. Maybe with the approval of the Kremlin. Or maybe not. You yourself preach the commandment "there is no proof, there is no guilt." Remember Israel's nuclear weapons and the 1982 losses. So there is no evidence against Russia either. More questions?
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. -21
            15 February 2014 11: 48
            Quote: SkiF_RnD
            More questions?

            In the delivery of such technology, there is a term "end user".
            Question 1: how did Rosoboronexport deliver ATGMs to a terrorist organization?
            Question 2: Putin hints about boxes... Exactly "boxes", not complexes. Why would it be? wink
            1. +9
              15 February 2014 14: 51
              There is also the concept of misinformation and dirty competition in the supply of such technology.
              Why would we have to believe the provocations of the Saudi (or Israeli) special services?
              After all, the Jews themselves make analogues of Soviet weapons.
            2. +9
              15 February 2014 19: 29
              Fool! For a year or a half I read your comments. And I dare to assure you that if necessary, your comments are read precisely in the context of contempt for everything Russian! And the answer is not silence, as you see. hi
    3. +15
      15 February 2014 12: 41
      Professor, but I wonder if your skepticism about this weapon and its capabilities will be shared by your government if, for example, there is a contract with Iran or another "friend" of Israel?
      1. -17
        15 February 2014 12: 45
        Quote: PDM80
        Professor, but I wonder if your skepticism about this weapon and its capabilities will be shared by your government if, for example, there is a contract with Iran or another "friend" of Israel?

        What "this"? If to Cornets (I am not skeptical of them), then the Persians themselves rivet them. If to the Iders, then they are dangerous only in the hands of Hezbollah and only against civilians.
        1. +4
          15 February 2014 13: 02
          This meant the Iskander. And I wanted to clarify "they are dangerous only for civilians." What is it like?
          1. -8
            15 February 2014 13: 26
            Quote: PDM80
            This meant the Iskander. And I wanted to clarify "they are dangerous only for civilians." What is it like?

            For civilians it is dangerous, 470 kg of TNT will be demolished five-story building with a direct hit.
            1. +6
              15 February 2014 14: 14
              The same will happen with buildings and manpower when a missile hits the location of the soldiers. In addition, that is, it turns out that the Iskander is not so bad if it can overcome the "iron dome". And it turns out that in addition to civilian buildings, the administrative ones ensuring the normal life of the state will also be destroyed. And most of the countries of Europe, like Israel, are not very large. And if in Israel they are accustomed to always be ready that a rocket is flooded into the garden, then in Geyrope not. So what else is needed from the complex, what efficiency. And the fact that the destruction of civilian objects and infrastructure is half of victory was proved by Iraq, Yugoslavia, Libya.
              1. -12
                15 February 2014 15: 02
                Quote: PDM80
                The same thing will happen with buildings and manpower when a rocket hits a soldier’s location.

                Soldiers are not located in 5-storey unprotected buildings.

                Quote: PDM80
                In addition, that is, it turns out that the Iskander is not so bad if it can overcome the "iron dome".

                LCD is not designed to intercept such missiles.

                Quote: PDM80
                And most European countries, like Israel, do not differ in large sizes.

                1. Israel as Russia is capitalized.
                2. One Iskander carries a warhead with a half-ton explosive, and this warhead is not capable of damaging the bunkers. One aircraft of the MiG-29 type carries 3,5 tons of bombs, moreover, "concrete-piercing". Maximum combat load of the su-24-8000 kg (16 Iskander). Who should you fear more?

                Quote: PDM80
                then there is no geyrop

                Are you worried about their sexual inclinations?

                Quote: PDM80
                And the fact that the destruction of civilian objects and infrastructure is the floor of victory was proved by Iraq, Yugoslavia, Libya.

                One Tu-22 is able to make 18 Iskanders with this infrastructure, and one B-52 as 54 Iskanders. Who will we be afraid of?
                1. rolik
                  +12
                  15 February 2014 15: 18
                  Quote: professor
                  One Tu-22 is able to make 18 Iskanders with this infrastructure, and one B-52 as 54 Iskanders. Who will we be afraid of?

                  Oleg, well, do not exaggerate so. What missiles can both Tushka and Beshka do, what will Iskander do ????? You yourself know, but when you enter the enemy’s air defense zone, both Tushka and Beshka are doomed to be shot down, without even reaching the drop point. And in the case of Iskander, he pressed the button, and two minutes later, to where the missile of the complex (if this is the place of deployment of the air defense) hit the planes can safely fly and bomb the rest.
                  I will give an example. The Syrians were beaten by the Iskander along the Iron Dome, and then immediately by the take-off of airfields. And all, the sky for Israeli aviation is closed, but open to pilots not very friendly to Israel.
                  And again, why the b / h iskander cannot damage the hopper. Neither I nor you know the penetrating properties of this b / h. The characteristics say there is a penetrating b / h, that's all. And how much it penetrates is not known.
                  1. 0
                    15 February 2014 15: 55
                    Quote: rolik
                    I will give an example. The Syrians were beaten by the Iskander along the Iron Dome, and then immediately by the take-off of airfields. And all, the sky for Israeli aviation is closed, but open to pilots not very friendly to Israel.

                    How many Iskanders do you need to paralyze an airfield?


                    Quote: rolik
                    Moreover, the author notes that this information is based on unverified sources.

                    untested !!!

                    Quote: rolik
                    B / h Iskander is not 470, but 480 kg.

                    I saw what 500kg air bombs do. For urban development this is impressive, for well-fortified goals I’m not sure.

                    Quote: rolik
                    Again, according to what data ??? When at the same time heels of Israeli aircraft are removed from the sky, then it will be possible to confidently say that our new air defense (Tor, Shell) has worked. But, judging by recent events, it has not (so far) been used there.

                    Did the shell sleep while bombing a suburb of Damascus? Then everything is clear.

                    Quote: rolik
                    And Israeli tanks beat complexes delivered by other countries, such as Ukraine, Belarus, but who knows who put the Cornets))))

                    We carefully read the inscription on the box. wink
                    1. rolik
                      +13
                      15 February 2014 16: 40
                      Quote: professor
                      How many Iskanders do you need to paralyze an airfield?

                      Two rockets. One for tanks with fuel, the other for the "head" (dispatchers, headquarters, pilot's barracks) to choose the shooting side.
                      Quote: professor
                      untested !!!

                      So I do not deny)))))) Because there is no exact information. Even about the Dutch journalist, who, allegedly, was killed by a steel ball from the cassette part of Iskander. When he was reporting in Gori at the military base, when the bombing began.
                      Quote: professor
                      I saw what 500kg air bombs do. For urban development this is impressive, for well-fortified goals I’m not sure.

                      Again, the penetrating part can be like that of amers (a stupidly reinforced steel nose piercing concrete due to speed and mass, and then an exploding landmine), and maybe a little different. But, I repeat, Iskander is aimed primarily at enemy air defense systems, infrastructure. Clears the way of aviation.
                      Quote: professor
                      Did the shell sleep while bombing a suburb of Damascus? Then everything is clear.

                      Maybe he didn’t sleep. Then the situation was what you remember. On the one hand there are bandits, on the other hand there is a fleet of mattress covers. And the threat, and at any moment, get hit. On both sides of the sea and from the bandits. And to fight with Israel, it’s already completely Amban. Now that the situation has leveled off a bit, you can land a couple of Israeli planes. But for now. also not a good option. Yes, and airplanes, that they don’t particularly fly to bomb the suburbs of Damascus))))))) As is customary to say here; Not yet evening!!! Israel has a large and unpaid debt, which, nevertheless, will have to be repaid, and the neighbors will not write off this debt.
                      Quote: professor
                      We carefully read the inscription on the box.

                      So what, what is written on the box "made in Russia" ????? It doesn't say anything at all))))) I'll tell you why. Who said this photo was taken in Israel, Lebanon ??? Is it written on the ground "Israel" or "Lebanon" ???? And even if this photo was taken there, it still proves nothing. I said that this complex could have been supplied by third countries, or rather resell it having received a percentage of the broth. Show me, only genuine, bumazies where it means in black and white that the cargo was shipped by Rosoboronexport and the recipient of Hezbollah. recourse
                      1. -6
                        15 February 2014 17: 32
                        Quote: rolik
                        Two rockets. One for tanks with fuel, the other for the "head" (dispatchers, headquarters, pilot's barracks) to choose the shooting side.

                        I remember how it was in the USSR, in Israel fuels and lubricants are not so accessible, pilots are not in the barracks, and the KP is protected.


                        Quote: rolik
                        Even about the Dutch journalist, who, allegedly, was killed by a steel ball from the cassette part of Iskander.

                        I personally know the Israeli journalist wounded by that "ball" - we have a common hobby.

                        Quote: rolik
                        But, I repeat, Iskander is aimed primarily at enemy air defense systems, infrastructure.

                        And where was this Iskander when the Russian Air Force bombed Georgian airfields. Comments are redundant.



                        Quote: rolik
                        Yes, and planes, something especially does not fly to bomb the suburbs of Damascus)))))))

                        More and more people have been bombing Latakia lately. Again they speak with impunity.

                        Quote: rolik
                        So what, what is written on the box "Made in Russia" ?????

                        So will we read or not? We read it, and then move on to other material evidence. wink
                      2. +3
                        15 February 2014 19: 49
                        Are you here, next, settled down, to provide evidence of evidence? Volunteer, ALI how? laughing hi
                      3. rolik
                        +8
                        15 February 2014 22: 33
                        Quote: professor
                        I remember how it was in the USSR, in Israel fuels and lubricants are not so accessible, pilots are not in the barracks, and the KP is protected.

                        That is, you say that the fuel is at 100 meters depth, the pilots are sitting at home, and the checkpoint is in the depths of the mountain ??? Of course, this may be so, but there remains another aerodrome structure which is not protected and the destruction of which leads to the impossibility of departures for a certain period of time. Enough for adding this airdrome.
                        Quote: professor
                        I personally know an Israeli journalist wounded by that "ball" - we have a common hobby

                        I am sorry, I was mistaken. They dug there not the Dutch journalist, but the Dutch cameraman. So, you can communicate with him only at spiritualistic sessions)))))))))
                        Quote: professor
                        And where was this Iskander when the Russian Air Force bombed Georgian airfields. Comments are redundant.

                        In order to destroy Georgia’s air defense it took one SS 34 to fly, which killed the only rodent radar that gave target designation to the rodent Buk. At the same time, they tested the combat use of the world's best aircraft of their class. But the tank base was well fucked up, but rather, Tochka-U was used.
                        Quote: professor
                        More and more people have been bombing Latakia lately. Again they speak with impunity.

                        it’s like someone didn’t bomb, but they rushed something but without the use of aviation.
                        And again I repeat, the percentages from neighbors to Israel are dropping every day.
                        Quote: professor
                        So will we read or not? We read it, and then move on to other material evidence.

                        The cargo was sent to Syria and what ??? I ask where is the inscription "specially for the Hezbollah movement. Show it to me. And I will ask you to open the boxes, I want to see that there are no potatoes there. You know how it is written on the fence, you will look, but there it is not)) )))))) I want to prove it !!!!! bully Show me the official paper where the supplier is the Russian Federation, the recipient is Hezbollah. Do not present this document yet, please do not present boxes with potatoes laughing
                      4. -5
                        15 February 2014 22: 46
                        Quote: rolik
                        Of course, this may be so, but there remains another aerodrome structure which is not protected and the destruction of which leads to the impossibility of departures for a certain period of time.

                        When was the last time Russian airfields were bombed? And the Israeli days. The runway is repaired within tens of minutes.

                        Quote: rolik
                        So, you can communicate with him only at spiritualistic sessions)))))))))

                        He was an Israeli journalist who was seriously injured, I personally know him.

                        Quote: rolik
                        In order to destroy the Georgian air defense ...

                        The question is power. Where was the "great warrior and protector"?

                        Quote: rolik
                        And again I repeat, percentages from neighbors to Israel are dropping every day

                        The balance is not in their favor.

                        Quote: rolik
                        The cargo was sent to Syria and what ???

                        Who is directed? Right Russia.


                        Quote: rolik
                        And I ask you to open the boxes, I want to see that there is no potato lying.

                        Any whim for you. And here the experts kept shouting: "Why didn't Israel show it?" Here, I presented it.


                        Quote: rolik
                        Show me the official paper where the supplier is the Russian Federation, the recipient is Hezbollah.

                        We smoked this paper with anasha. If you knew what ansha in the Bekaa Valley ... wassat
                      5. rolik
                        +3
                        16 February 2014 00: 32
                        Quote: professor
                        The question is power. Where was the "great warrior and protector"?

                        Where he should be, on the western borders of the country. For Georgia there was "Tochka".
                        Quote: professor
                        The balance is not in their favor.

                        I said, it’s not yet evening, I’m very rarely mistaken)))) Something will happen when it is not clear, but not very long to wait, that's for sure. Honestly, such a chipper in those parts is extremely reluctant to see. But, se la vie however.
                        Quote: professor
                        Who is directed? Right Russia.

                        Sent by Russia, where to Syria and .... ???? Where are the Hezbolschiki ???? Where, even on these closed boxes, is written Lebanon - Hezbollah ????? Netuti))))) means officially, we did not deliver anything to Hezbolovtsy, nothing)))))) And the fact that such an interesting thing is on the tripod does not mean that it is from entich yaschichkov))))) Prove it with figs)))) )))
                        Well, I don’t know about the plan from the Bekaa Valley, I haven’t tried it. But from the Chuy valley, yes, it happened however, I repent)))))) It’s young and green, it was impudent and sharp, so to speak, and beautiful)))))
                        Listen, you got something bad. So the people got excited. To be honest, I would have fired a point against Georgians as well. After all, it is necessary to dispose of the ammunition withdrawn from service in connection with the replacement with Iskander. So the double benefit is obtained, disposed of and covered the heap soldier
                      6. -2
                        16 February 2014 10: 35
                        Quote: rolik
                        And the fact that such an interesting little thing is standing on the tripod does not mean that it is from the entich yaschichkov))))) Figase prove)))))))

                        Made in Russia and serial numbers mean already fake? Then I definitely won’t prove it.

                        Anasha Lebanese is evil. wassat
                      7. +1
                        16 February 2014 22: 04
                        Sent by Russia, where to Syria and .... ???? Where are the Hezbolschiki ???? Where, even on these closed boxes, is written Lebanon - Hezbollah ?????

                        You understand very well that the main thing for Jews is the info war. Photos of supposedly boxes from under Cornets are considered to be iron proof.
                        At the same time, ours in Afghanistan did not hunt for boxes of the type from under the stingers, but for the stingers themselves. But the Jews, instead of admitting that the hunt was unsuccessful, bliss for the whole world "CORNETS! CORNETS! Only they can burn the Chariots."
                      8. 0
                        17 February 2014 21: 55
                        rolikpersonal thanks to you for the fascinating conversation with the "professor" with abundant quotations hi since the respected "professor" has long blacklisted me (I got it to see feel ) and I do not see his posts smile it’s lazy to enter without registration laughing
                        however, nothing has changed since the time of personal disputes with this person (collective?), fierce Russophobia and at the same time omnipresence and omniscience
                        I personally know an Israeli journalist wounded by that "ball" - we have a common hobby

                        Everywhere our respected specialist in soup was, he knows everything, but his "hobby" is already familiar to everyone here wassat
                      9. 0
                        16 February 2014 04: 23
                        When was the last time Russian airfields were bombed? And the Israeli days. The runway is repaired within tens of minutes.
                        Who and what bomb Israel?
                        After getting the Iskander warhead, you will be sawing a new band for at least a week.
                      10. +1
                        16 February 2014 10: 36
                        Quote: Luke
                        After getting the Iskander warhead, you will be sawing a new band for at least a week.

                        470 kg of TNT a week? Maybe a month? wink
                      11. +1
                        16 February 2014 04: 24
                        The question is power. Where was the "great warrior and protector"?
                        He could have accidentally destroyed Georgia, therefore, only Tochka-U.
                      12. +4
                        16 February 2014 11: 23
                        Quote: professor
                        I personally know the Israeli journalist wounded by that "ball" - we have a common hobby.

                        Yes, you have a little something - he saw or has a friend. if the topic about merkava is a familiar tanker, if about missiles - then a familiar engineer, etc. ... The facts really do not agree, but these are trifles when YOU PERSONALLY ....
                      13. -1
                        16 February 2014 11: 35
                        Quote: yanus
                        Yes, you have a little something - he saw or has a friend. if the topic about merkava is a familiar tanker, if about missiles - then a familiar engineer, etc. ... The facts really do not agree, but these are trifles when YOU PERSONALLY ....

                        The country is small, "everyone knows everyone." Here is Zadok in Gori,

                        but after rehabilitation


                        Any questions?
                      14. +2
                        16 February 2014 14: 32
                        Quote: professor
                        Any questions?

                        And what? I also know how to use Google request
                      15. -2
                        16 February 2014 14: 50
                        Quote: yanus
                        Quote: professor
                        Any questions?

                        And what? I also know how to use Google request

                        So take advantage and find out where and how he was injured.
                      16. alex-kon
                        +2
                        18 February 2014 13: 31
                        Something seems to me that this guy was generally pulled out of the wrecked car after the accident. Blue, in the background. Damaged is clearly not ammunition. And the traces just reach from there. Let's just say that an ordinary accident was presented as an attack by an evil Russia on a small helpless Georgia. request
                      17. -1
                        18 February 2014 16: 13
                        Quote: alex-kon
                        Something seems to me that this guy was generally pulled out of the wrecked car after the accident.

                        when it seems necessary to be baptized


                      18. +4
                        15 February 2014 19: 46
                        Competently him! I don’t have enough words from outrage at his rhyme weaving !!! (Which is, of course, a minus to me).
                        In general, I think that the main thing in the relationship between countries and people should be justice, and not the ability to artificially weave their speeches. Let it be said at the level of the layman, but honestly. hi
                      19. 0
                        15 February 2014 22: 59
                        So what, is it written on the door of the barn ""? You open them, and there are FIREWOOD fellow
                2. +5
                  15 February 2014 15: 44
                  Quote: professor
                  Soldiers are not located in 5-storey unprotected buildings.


                  And what does this damned five-story house, half a ton and a nine-story building turn.
                  Quote: professor
                  Are you worried about their sexual inclinations?

                  My concern is that they are trying to impose their inclinations.
                  Quote: professor
                  One Tu-22 is able to make 18 Iskanders with this infrastructure, and one B-52 as 54 Iskanders. Who will we be afraid of?

                  aviation needs its own infrastructure, airfields, etc., and it’s worth it at times more expensive. Well, there’s nothing to say about great vulnerability.
                  1. -12
                    15 February 2014 16: 02
                    Quote: PDM80
                    And what does this damned five-story house, half a ton and a nine-story building turn.

                    I personally observed the 5th floor.

                    Quote: PDM80
                    My concern is that they are trying to impose their inclinations.

                    Do they impose on you? Where do you intersect with them?

                    Quote: PDM80
                    aviation needs its own infrastructure, airfields, etc., and it’s worth it at times more expensive. Well, there’s nothing to say about great vulnerability.

                    Let's calculate how much the Su-24 costs, how many bombs it carries and how many times it can complete its mission and how many Iskander. Khrushchev also thought that missiles would replace aviation.
                    1. +7
                      15 February 2014 16: 38
                      Quote: professor
                      I personally observed the 5th floor.

                      If it `s not a secret. Do you have soldiers in the barracks underground living, or maybe especially fortified buildings? Oil storages, warehouses, hangars for equipment, etc. everything is underground. If not, how many floors are there. And in the chips of the storey buildings, will soldiers and equipment be at the forefront?
                      Quote: professor
                      Do they impose on you? Where do you intersect with them?

                      Previously, by type of service with some m ...... and from among them. And it seems that this topic does not leave you indifferent. So much attention to the subject not related to the article under discussion
                      1. -6
                        15 February 2014 17: 41
                        Quote: PDM80
                        If it `s not a secret. Do you have soldiers in the barracks underground living, or maybe especially fortified buildings?

                        No money for the barracks, in tents, dispersed. sad
                        The Soviet specialists somehow launched a rocket attack on the Israeli air base (though the Arabs pressed the button), the result was a ruined female dormitory, a bunch of corpses of 18-year-old girls, the air base did not do any harm.

                        Quote: PDM80
                        Oil storages, warehouses, hangars for equipment, etc. everything is underground. If not, how many floors are there. And in the chips of the storey buildings, will soldiers and equipment be at the forefront?

                        I posted the above photo of the air base. How many Iskanders do you need for it?

                        Quote: PDM80
                        And it seems that this topic does not leave you indifferent.

                        On the contrary, you raised the topic of gays. They are parallel to me, he lived and studied in Europe and no one from me was gay and did not impose his views on me.
                      2. +8
                        15 February 2014 17: 44
                        Quote: professor
                        I posted the above photo of the air base. How many Iskanders do you need for it?
                        With special warheads and one installation is enough ...
                      3. +1
                        15 February 2014 17: 57
                        Almost the biggest snag is the weight of the warhead 480, but why 480 smoke powder? glycerin? TNT, plastid? or it’s a 480 kilogram thermobaric charge. The power of destruction, the impact on buildings and people, the radius of destruction in each case is different? and this difference is important.
                      4. 0
                        15 February 2014 23: 06
                        480 cassette, will not be enough laughing hi
                      5. +3
                        16 February 2014 11: 28
                        Quote: professor
                        No money for the barracks, in tents, dispersed.

                        That is, when approaching a cassette warhead they smile and wave? request
                    2. +1
                      16 February 2014 04: 28
                      You will consider the Su-24 at what prices? the plane was produced only in the USSR.
                      Khrushchev thought that missiles would replace artillery, not aviation.
                    3. 0
                      16 February 2014 11: 51
                      Quote: professor
                      Let's calculate how much the Su-24 costs, how many bombs it carries and how many times it can complete its mission and how many Iskander. Khrushchev also thought that missiles would replace aviation.

                      And you don’t want to count the chances of reaching the target missile and SU-24? Or calculate the time required to destroy the target?
                      1. 0
                        16 February 2014 11: 55
                        Quote: yanus
                        And you don’t want to count the chances of reaching the target missile and SU-24? Or calculate the time required to destroy the target?

                        Let's count. Arm the Su-24 with planning bombs with a range of 100 km and hello air defense. Talk about retargeting?
                      2. +2
                        16 February 2014 14: 30
                        Quote: professor
                        Let's count. Arm the Su-24 with planning bombs with a range of 100 km and hello air defense. Talk about retargeting?

                        And what about the fact that the combat radius of the air defense is "somewhat" more than 100 km?
                        But nothing that planning bombs can not be dropped from a low altitude, but you need to substitute air defense?
                        But what about the fact that a "gliding" bomb is a typical target for short-range air defense, and Iskander is an inconvenient target?

                        And yes, if there is no air defense, it’s really easier to bomb from a height, as they bombed at an airfield in Georgia. In that situation, simple bombs dealt.

                        But in general, for such purposes, Iskander needs a warhead of 4-5 blocks of 50 kg each, with self-guidance. This will be enough to "plow" the runway, or cover part of the hangars with equipment, or distribute the blow to the control points.
                        This will not completely destroy the airfield, but will sharply lower its capabilities for the time being. With one powerful warhead, this is either a control point or fuel. This can turn a tactical situation around.
                        Iskander has important advantages - accuracy and time of striking. This is important precisely for changing the tactical situation, and other means must completely roll out the enemy.
                        Special warheads are another story altogether.
                      3. -1
                        16 February 2014 15: 10
                        Quote: yanus
                        And what about the fact that the combat radius of the air defense is "somewhat" more than 100 km?
                        But nothing that planning bombs can not be dropped from a low altitude, but you need to substitute air defense?
                        Nitsche that a "gliding" bomb is a typical target for short-range air defense, and Iskander is an inconvenient target

                        And Nitsche that the earth is round, and Nitsche that EW clog air defense, and nothing that air defense is not able to distinguish a real plane from a false target? wink

                        Quote: yanus
                        But in general, for such purposes, Iskander needs a warhead of 4-5 blocks of 50 kg, with independent guidance.

                        ... and are there any? And there are already bombs!

                        Quote: yanus
                        Iskander has important advantages - accuracy and time of striking.

                        The accuracy of smart bombs is better than Iskander.
                      4. +1
                        16 February 2014 15: 21
                        1. It depends on the air defense. Although, of course, there is a problem.
                        2. actually write what is
                        3. Is it like -in centimeters? and the second point, i.e. time, remains
                  2. 0
                    16 February 2014 22: 10
                    And what does this damned five-story house, half a ton and a nine-story building turn.

                    Nine-story building is just easier to undermine. There the load on the walls is greater. And their shape is more convenient for folding. But the Soviet standard reinforced concrete panel in the five floor is very difficult. The maximum half-building will bring down, and even that all depends on the quality of the reinforced concrete panels.
                3. +5
                  15 February 2014 19: 37
                  Fool! You verbiage, like your ilk! I do not consider it necessary to prove the correctness of my words. And in the affairs in which you stick your nose, you seem to be a layman who compares hi things are incomparable, Accustomed for years (we ask you - for centuries) to live by the principle is not ...... beshb, do not live !!! ???
                4. -3
                  16 February 2014 10: 29
                  Those. a downed B-52 means a loss equal to the loss of 54 Iskanders? It is expensive.
                5. 0
                  16 February 2014 21: 53
                  A plane is easier to shoot down than a rocket, then there’s only a kinetic strike at the bunker with great speed, which conventional, thermobolic, or nuclear warhead, it’s easier to destroy the missile itself than in flight
                6. 0
                  16 February 2014 21: 53
                  A plane is easier to shoot down than a rocket, then there’s only a kinetic strike at the bunker with great speed, which conventional, thermobolic, or nuclear warhead, it’s easier to destroy the missile itself than in flight
            2. +6
              15 February 2014 19: 32
              Quote: professor
              For civilians it is dangerous, 470 kg of TNT will be demolished five-story building with a direct hit.
              And the military you have there are all in "tanks" and they will not get it ... how is it ...
            3. 0
              15 February 2014 22: 54
              80 mm NURS will demolish, quite calmly, half of a 2-storey "Stalinist" building. And in it, maybe no more than 10 kg of explosives, what can we say about 470 kg? 5-storey building? You joked? This weight can be a 9-storey building with 6 entrances ..... am
              1. 0
                15 February 2014 22: 58
                Quote: papik09
                You joked? This weight can be 9-storey building with 6 entrances .....

                Are you from personal experience or have you watched? I dealt the work of 500 kg of bombs.
    4. rolik
      +7
      15 February 2014 14: 59
      Oleg, Greetings!
      Quote: professor
      Can you refer to the statements of these experts? It is very interesting to read how they motivate "the defeat of even well-protected targets" with a warhead weighing 470 kg, and even guaranteed.

      Well, let's talk about the Iskanders.
      B / h Iskander is not 470, but 480 kg. (Which does not contradict the regime of MTCR), 10 kg. This (agree) is a decent difference. The complex is designed to launch missiles "against particularly important small and area targets in the depths of the operational formation of enemy forces." That is, his combat mission may be the destruction of firearms (missile systems, multiple launch rocket systems, long-range artillery), airplanes and helicopters at airfields, command posts and communication centers, as well as critical civilian infrastructure.
      For these purposes, the Iskander missile can be equipped with various types of charges - a cluster warhead (warhead) with fragmentation warheads (54 pieces) of non-contact detonation, a cluster warhead with cumulative warheads, a cluster warhead with self-aiming warheads, a cluster warhead a detonating action, a high-explosive fragmentation warhead, a high-explosive incendiary warhead, and also a warhead penetrating to great depths.
      But most importantly, the Iskander is capable of hitting an enemy with nuclear charges, and, according to unofficial data, at a much greater range than 500 km. It follows that Iskander will hit the missile defense, missile defense, headquarters, infrastructure and other NATO crap. Nobody will tell you about the exact characteristics of this complex, do not even hope))))))) Because it is only mattresses who advertise their products in the style of Disneyland, our people prefer (the legacy of the Union affects) to say not everything. I think this approach is correct, as Vinokur said (in his, I do not remember the name, monologue); Surprise will be))))
      The combat use of Iskander: Mikhail Barabanov, an expert at Moscow Defense Brief, points out that the Iskander complex was used at the base of a separate tank battalion in Gori. As a result of the direct hit of the warhead in the arms depot of the Georgian battalion, it detonated. Moreover, the author notes that this information is based on unverified sources.
      Quote: professor
      According to other sources, Israel missed several times.

      Again, according to what data ??? When at the same time heels of Israeli aircraft are removed from the sky, then it will be possible to confidently say that our new air defense (Tor, Shell) has worked. But, judging by recent events, it has not (so far) been used there.
      Quote: professor
      The Russian president claimed that there were no Cornets in Lebanon. Lying?

      No, it’s not lying))))) He correctly says that there were no official deliveries of complexes))))) And Israeli tanks beat complexes delivered by other countries, for example Ukraine, Belarus, but whoever delivered the Cornets)))) lol
    5. +5
      15 February 2014 17: 38
      Quote: professor
      The Russian president claimed that there were no Cornets in Lebanon. Lying?

      No more than your officials silent on the question of the presence of nuclear weapons in Israel ...
      1. -5
        15 February 2014 17: 50
        Quote: svp67
        No more than your officials silent on the question of the presence of nuclear weapons in Israel ...

        Keeping silence and not telling the truth is not the same thing.
        1. +5
          15 February 2014 17: 51
          Quote: professor
          Keeping silence and not telling the truth is not the same thing.
          Russia OFFICIALLY didn’t deliver weapons to those groups - WHERE IS IT WRONG?
    6. 0
      16 February 2014 06: 54
      Quote: professor
      Can you refer to the statements of these experts? It is very interesting to read how they motivate "the defeat of even well-protected targets" with a warhead weighing 470 kg, and even guaranteed.

      WAIT Syria will share with the mercenaries, and AFTER NEXT YOUR SYRIAN TERRITORY YOUR BOMBLE, YOU WILL LOSE COMPLETELY AND LEARN THAT SUCH ISKANDER. AT THE PRESENT TIME, SYRIA DOES NOT.
    7. postman
      0
      16 February 2014 12: 31
      Quote: professor
      It was impossible to write a normal article, without this pathos?

      what did you want from a phony analyst?


      Finita la comedy or exposure of the linden analyst
      http://twower.livejournal.com/478122.html

      About the sufferer for the idea

      Quote: professor
      It is very interesting to read how they motivate "the defeat of even well-protected targets" with a warhead weighing 470 kg, and even guaranteed.


      everything is taken (approximated of course) from data on combat use
      ATACMS (MGM-140A ATACMS Block***)

      1. 32 neg running
      http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/m-140.html
      2.450 neg running
      http://defense-update.com/products/a/atacms.htm
  5. +9
    15 February 2014 09: 50
    Quote: professor
    Quote: Fofan
    prof, this is not pathos, here is "pathos". to your pathos and eternal contempt for everything Russian as before China on a lame mare.

    3.14 take off bags, do not roll. Give at least one example of my "contempt for everything Russian." And in response, silence ... wassat

    yes all your remarks are screams of sneak from kindergarten.
    and the type iskander is nothing
    and his warheads are weak
    pathos and contempt. and also black envy that your vaunted Israel has all the achievements on a single "cast-iron dome", somehow knocking down flying pipe cuttings. although who knows, maybe they themselves fall?
    1. -17
      15 February 2014 09: 52
      Again blah blah blah. I thought so. What about "contempt for everything Russian"? Examples will be?
      1. +4
        15 February 2014 15: 20
        what kind of strange manner do you have, "will there be examples?", it is understandably useless to prove Iskander to you, but why prove it? Do you doubt Gagarin's flight into space, Americans doubt BL "Satan", Poplar-M or Yars? cannot be so invulnerable, and even with a nuclear filling, this is something from an anecdote about a Jew who wants to wriggle out in a hopeless situation ...
    2. -5
      15 February 2014 15: 31
      Quote: Fofan
      and also black envy that your vaunted Israel has all the achievements on a single "cast-iron dome"

      Ooooh, how much poison, don't choke lol

      Meet - OTRK "LORA" are the same eggs Iskander, only in profile.



      And for accuracy ...

      Iskander - Circular probable deviation: 1-30м
      Warhead - penetrating 480kg.
      The maximum range of hitting a target is 280km (up to 500km - option using cruise missiles)

      LORA - Circular probable deviation: 1-10м
      Warhead - penetrating 600 kg.
      The maximum range of hitting a target is 300 km.

      Only here our ours did not accept it - there are more modern and effective types of weapons for the declared distances.
      1. +1
        15 February 2014 17: 00
        LORA - warhead total 600kg
        Professor, where are you?
        that the military can destroy such a warhead 600kg in weight? feel

        By the way, is 280km range an export option?
        And what is more effective? Aviation? Bombing is cheaper, of course, but with an adversary with advanced air defense it is fraught. From afar (300km) - the enemy will move, and hanging over the enemy - it is necessary to suppress air defense.
        1. -4
          15 February 2014 17: 45
          Quote: andrey682006
          that the military can destroy such a warhead 600kg in weight?

          I won’t put my mind to it, I haven’t seen them in service anywhere.

          Quote: andrey682006
          From afar (300km) - the enemy will move, and hanging over the enemy - it is necessary to suppress air defense.

          Iskander clairvoyant? Targeting him Israeli drones will carry out or the same aircraft?
          1. +3
            15 February 2014 18: 00
            But what about the "all-seeing eye of terrorists"? laughing
            And Putin, helping the enemies of Israel? Yes am

            If no jokes - where will the Jewish General Staff move? And if you don’t move, you can use Google? wink
            If warhead with radar guidance - is antenna targeting necessary?
            If a warhead such as "Aerofon" with guidance on the image from space, and the images are sold, right?
            If the warhead is cassette - does it need high accuracy?

            In general, I wrote about the best effectiveness of the Republic of Kazakhstan before aviation in a war with an enemy with good air defense.

            PS And yet, that the military can be destroyed by the Israeli missile LORA? Warhead = 600kg
          2. -2
            16 February 2014 04: 36
            Israeli drones can rest, they will bring satellites.
          3. +2
            16 February 2014 11: 56
            Quote: professor
            I won’t put my mind to it, I haven’t seen them in service anywhere.

            Don’t worry, I will tell the US AGM-86D CALCM with penetrating warhead AUP-3M, 540 kg (PBXN-109).
            Moreover, this winged a rocket with an appropriate "penetration" speed. Iskander has it (penetration rate) - ballistic.
            1. 0
              16 February 2014 14: 00
              Quote: yanus
              Quote: professor
              I won’t put my mind to it, I haven’t seen them in service anywhere.

              Don’t worry, I will tell the US AGM-86D CALCM with penetrating warhead AUP-3M, 540 kg (PBXN-109).
              Moreover, this winged a rocket with an appropriate "penetration" speed. Iskander has it (penetration rate) - ballistic.

              fool
      2. -7
        15 February 2014 17: 44
        Quote: And Us Rat
        Meet - OTRK "LORA"

        Damn, you can't do that. We are here about the "great warrior" who has no analogs in the world, "and you are destroying all raspberries ... laughing
        1. +4
          16 February 2014 02: 24
          Goodnight ! OTRK "LORA" is very interesting, but in my opinion it is only a prototype. "We will finalize at your expense" is called. A rocket is not the entire mobile complex (modular or not, is this rocket?). And in the end, look at the cost, taking into account production (and this is a very difficult task - Israel will definitely get a hole in the budget). Therefore, they refused to be adopted for service. There is no other reason. I have no doubt about the Israeli military-industrial complex and their developments, but the Israeli budget will not pull such a missile unambiguously.
          The presence of such weapons is the guarantee of the country's security. And such as "not fought S-300", but standing in service, any potential aggressor is sobering. There is no doubt about such systems, because this is not the first generation. Or their predecessors Tochka and S-75 (125,200) did not show themselves?
          If Europe does not continue to take into account the security of the CSTO countries (Russia), it will receive Iskander with a cruise missile.
          I don’t understand why Israel can maintain military cooperation with the legitimate government of Georgia (and the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs pointed to the increased military potential of Georgia and its militaristic intentions), but the Russian Federation and Syria cannot. And why the United States could supply the Taliban and all kinds of spirits with the Stingers to Afghanistan, and the Russian Federation could not supply the Cornets to the legitimate government of Syria. Here I see some kind of double standards. This is not fair. hi
      3. 0
        16 February 2014 04: 35
        This Laura doesn't even have a PU. One layout from the exhibition. And do not believe the official figures for Iskander, they are an order of magnitude higher. So our INF Treaty is bypassed.
        1. -3
          16 February 2014 10: 44
          Quote: Luke
          This Laura doesn't even have a PU. One layout from the exhibition. And do not believe the official figures for Iskander, they are an order of magnitude higher. So our INF Treaty is bypassed.

          Your knowledge is so "deep" that I do not even know if you should arrange an educational program or immediately to the ignore list?
          1. +3
            16 February 2014 11: 52
            Be sure to arrange it. And I will read it with pleasure, since there is very little information about this product. Then compare
            1. +2
              16 February 2014 11: 58
              Quote: sivuch
              Be sure to arrange it. And I will read it with pleasure, since there is very little information about this product. Then compare

              I've already started fellow
              Lynx Reactive Salvo Fire System
              Israel replaces smart rocket 155-mm howitzers
              1. 0
                16 February 2014 15: 31
                Well, see.
                The first link, in general, is nothing, and the second one says quite definitely:
                But if there are no planes or airspace control nearby, then the target can be hit by a LORA missile for ten minutes from the moment of receipt of the order.
                Moreover, Laura weighs 1.2 tons. So for her 300km - maximum
                1. 0
                  16 February 2014 15: 44
                  Quote: sivuch
                  The first link, in general, is nothing

                  About PU which supposedly is not.
      4. +2
        17 February 2014 17: 38
        But the profile is not the same. Iskander-M in the version for Russia is equipped with electronic warfare equipment. The range does not exceed 500 km, because the "INF Treaty".

        As part of the Iskander-M OTRK, R-500 cruise missiles can be used, the firing range of which, according to some statements, exceeds 2000 km


        Accuracy 1-30m, depending on the guidance system used.

        Thanks to ANN and optical seeker
        high accuracy of hit 5-7 m is achieved
        .

        OTRK LORA.

        Range 250-300 km. (against 500)
        KVO-10 m. (Against 5-7).
        Ballistic missile ( The missile of the 9M723K1 complex ... conducts intensive maneuvering with overloads of the order of 20-30 units at the initial and final sections of the flight.).
        A warhead is a high explosive, 400 kg, or penetrating, 600 kg (the range with a penetrating warhead is obviously just 250 km. This explains the range dispersion indicated in the performance specification).
        ANN + GPS + TV GOS.

        The P-500 is a Russian medium-range cruise missile, designed for the Iskander complex, capable, according to the statement of First Deputy Prime Minister Sergei Ivanov, to overcome all existing and promising missile defense systems.
        According to wikileaks, the R-500 high-precision subsonic cruise missile is a more modern version of the Soviet 3M10 Grenade with a radius of 2600 km, which was created for the armament of Soviet nuclear submarines.

        The same eggs, you say? Laura is the usual "ballistics", better "Tochka", but not an analogue of "Iskander".
        1. +1
          18 February 2014 14: 29
          Laura is the usual "ballistics", better "Tochka", but not an analogue of "Iskander".

          Excuse me, but I couldn’t keep silent - The point is not a ballistic missile. Otherwise, why would she need x-shaped wings in the middle of the rocket? I read the name somewhere - aeroballistic.
          Laura can also be considered maneuvering if her engine and rudders work along the entire trajectory.
          1. 0
            19 February 2014 13: 05
            And you will excuse me, but all modern "ballistics" have a controlled trajectory. That is, all of these are aeroballistic goals. Iskander also uses full-fledged missile launchers, that is, missiles that use the lift force of their aerodynamics together with the engine thrust for flight. Hence my words Laura is the usual "ballistics"... Well, in your opinion, I compared "Laura" with V-2, or what? I pointed out that these two complexes ("Iskander" and "Laura") are not analogues. I want to ask you. And how do you imagine non-maneuvering ballistic missiles with a 10-meter CEP?

            PS The plumage is, for example, in sub-caliber shells. This, in your opinion, means that the armor-piercing is an aeroballistic object? wink
            1. 0
              26 February 2014 17: 55
              I want to ask you. And what do you think of non-maneuvering ballistic missiles with a 10-meter CWS?

              If with a detachable warhead, then this is practically all ICBMs with UBB, if it is an inseparable warhead, then they are divided into two groups.
              The first is missiles with a quasi-ballistic trajectory and maneuvering in the final part of the trajectory using guided nozzles or gas-jet rudders (thrust vector control). Those. this including and Iskander.
              The second group includes rockets of the "Tochka" type with flight in dense layers due to the wings in the middle of the body and aerodynamic control surfaces (the so-called "lattice control surfaces")

              This, in your opinion, means that the armor-piercing is an aeroballistic object?

              Read carefully, I did not write about the plumage, but about the rudders and the engine, working on the entire trajectory. Of course, it would be worth mentioning the flight in dense layers of the atmosphere, but you still did not notice.
              By the way, about "all ballistics" - if the warhead is detachable, then there are few maneuvering warheads in the world.
        2. The comment was deleted.
  6. +6
    15 February 2014 10: 03
    Quote: professor
    Again blah blah blah. I thought so. What about "contempt for everything Russian"? Examples will be?

    Do you need me to raise all your comments now throughout the forum?
    you have every remark about something Russian oozing poison.
    here please
    1945 year. On the territory controlled by the Soviet army, Poles slaughter Jews. Neither the Minister of Defense of the USSR, no one else in the leadership goes to trial.
    1982 year. Lebanese massacre Palestinians in Israeli-controlled territory. Israeli Defense Minister goes on trial.

    here you are.
    you are comparing situations that you cannot obviously compare. and from this we conclude - what a Russian bad!
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. +16
        15 February 2014 10: 30
        Quote: professor

        2. Once you have already decided to blame, then be so kind as to bring evidence, otherwise all this is 3.14 here.
        3. It is impossible because you do not like it? The situations are identical, in both cases the army controls the territory in which local groups cut out other local groups. In both cases, the army did not prevent. But the result is different, in the first case everyone is silent, in the second they cannot calm down for 30 years. Double standards in action.

        PS
        Do you want to talk about Iskander? wink

        2. I brought, the whole discussion in paragraph 3, the discussion is on the "evidence".
        3.
        Already on July 9, 1946, twelve people were in the dock before the participants of the visiting session of the Supreme Military Court. The court decision was read on July 11. Nine accused were sentenced to death, one each to life imprisonment, ten years and seven years in prison. The President of the NDP Take did not exercise his right of pardon, and those sentenced to death were shot.
        The pogrom in Kielce caused a massive emigration of Jews from Poland. If in May 1946 3500 Jews left Poland, in June - 8000, then after the pogrom during July - 19, in August 000 people [35]. Towards the end of 000, the wave of departure subsided as the situation in Poland returned to normal.
        In 1996 (the 50th anniversary of the pogrom), the mayor of Kielce apologized on behalf of the townspeople. On the 60th anniversary, the ceremony was raised to the national level, with the participation of the President and ministers. Polish President Lech Kaczynski called the pogrom in Kielce "a great shame for the Poles and the tragedy of the Jews."
        are all silent? Prof. Can't you lie?
        long to catch you on a deliberate lie before you admit that you were wrong?
        1. -16
          15 February 2014 10: 34
          Quote: Fofan
          are all silent? Prof. Can't you lie?

          Of course they are silent. Have you noticed at least one accusation against the Soviet troops or the Soviet leadership? Here is the same.

          Quote: Fofan
          long to catch you on a deliberate lie before you admit that you were wrong?

          I confess to "my lie" as soon as you cite a link to the accusations against the Minister of Defense of the USSR (Sharon was the Minister of Defense of Israel, not Lebanon). Come on? Where are the charges, the commission, the court? Let me remind you that Stalin Joseph Vissarionovich was then Minister of Defense.
          Double standards in action.
          1. +6
            15 February 2014 10: 49
            Quote: professor
            Quote: Fofan
            are all silent? Prof. Can't you lie?

            Of course they are silent. Have you noticed at least one accusation against the Soviet troops or the Soviet leadership? Here is the same.

            Quote: Fofan
            long to catch you on a deliberate lie before you admit that you were wrong?

            I confess to "my lie" as soon as you cite a link to the accusations against the Minister of Defense of the USSR (Sharon was the Minister of Defense of Israel, not Lebanon). Come on? Where are the charges, the commission, the court? Double standards in action.

            why blame the Soviet troops and especially the Minister of Defense? Or are they responsible for the actions of the Poles?
            As for the trial of Sharon, your court can judge your citizens for any reason and without it. this is your internal affair. by the way, Sharon was directly condemned from head to toe.
            On September 16 and 17, 1982, in the Sabra and Shatila camps on the outskirts of Beirut, Lebanese Christian phalangists destroyed, according to various estimates, from 700 to 3500 camp residents with the connivance of nearby Israeli troops. From that moment on, Sharon was forbidden for life to hold the post of Minister of Defense. In a 2001 Belgian court, relatives of those killed in Beirut in 1982 made an unsuccessful attempt to hold Sharon accountable as a war criminal.

            that is, no prison term, or any other punishment. only a purely political restriction.
            Prof. Once again, you are a liar and a troll. Sharon actually did not suffer punishment, the situation was used only to remove him from power.
            1. -9
              15 February 2014 11: 01
              Quote: Fofan
              why blame the Soviet troops and especially the Minister of Defense? Or are they responsible for the actions of the Poles?

              why blame the Israeli forces and especially the Minister of Defense? or are they responsible for the actions of the Lebanese?
              the ice has broken, it begins to reach.

              Quote: Fofan
              As for the trial of Sharon, your court can judge your citizens for any reason and without it. this is your internal affair. by the way, Sharon was directly condemned from head to toe.

              However, it does not occur to anyone to blame Stalin for having been tried by Sharon. Feel the difference.

              Quote: Fofan
              that is, no prison term, or any other punishment. only a purely political restriction.

              The ban on holding the post of MO is not a punishment?

              Quote: Fofan
              Prof. Once again, you are a liar and a troll. Sharon actually did not suffer punishment, the situation was used only to remove him from power.

              We have already found out which of us is a liar. Troll in my opinion, too, you - in the topic about the "Great Warrior Iskander" brought Sharon.
              Quote: Fofan
              to your pathos and eternal contempt for everything Russian


              Quote: Fofan
              Sharon actually did not suffer punishment, the situation was used only to remove him from power.

              So "removed" that he became prime minister. And what punishment did Stalin incur for such acts?

              PS
              Do you want to talk about Iskander?
              1. +6
                15 February 2014 11: 05
                why blame the Israeli forces and especially the Minister of Defense? or are they responsible for the actions of the Lebanese?
                even as they answer.
                The phalangists were allies of the Israelis and, in the course of the capture of West Beirut [3] and the planning of cleansing the camps from the alleged militants there, acted in coordination with them [3]. The Israelis secured the cordon of the camps during the massacre. The role of Israel in the massacre is controversial and widely debated.
                According to various estimates, between 700 and 3500 people died in Sabra and Chatil (Kapelyuk [4] [non-authoritative source?]). The Kahan Commission cites the opinion of Israeli military intelligence, according to which the number of victims could be 700-800 people
                1. -11
                  15 February 2014 11: 54
                  Quote: Fofan
                  even as they answer.

                  So Stalin had to answer for the Jewish pogroms.

                  Quote: Fofan
                  The Israelis secured the cordon of the camps during the massacre.

                  Your wiki copy-and-paste skills are impressive. However, you have no idea what these so-called. refugee camps and that they could not be cordoned off. By the way, not a single fact of the "cordoning" was found.

                  Phalangists were allies of the Israelites

                  Rave. They did not sign any agreements on alliance and were the same "allies" as the Polish pogromists were allies of Stalin - they simply did not fight against. And that's all.

                  You should master this topic more thoroughly, but not from a wiki.

                  PS
                  Do you want to talk about Iskander?
                  1. +5
                    15 February 2014 20: 22
                    I want to talk about Judas. Or about Jewish verbiage! And Iskander will say his word when you ask how Hitler took a nap, and mother is a girl with him ... It turns out that my mother fought for the first Jewish state, which was started thanks to my so unloved Stalin ...
                    Hey - you're better off here ... quit !!!
                    Not even an hour - they’ll spit it out! hi
                    P.S. And this is the best outcome for you, a kindred one who doesn’t remember ..) hi
              2. fisherman
                +1
                15 February 2014 22: 26
                why blame the Israeli forces and especially the Minister of Defense? or are they responsible for the actions of the Lebanese?


                a beautiful symmetrical answer, would be a beautiful ...

                if someone from those who were discussing with you would begin to demand roughly punishing the Israeli military (as an option, the Minister of Defense)

                The ban on holding the post of MO is not a punishment?


                So "removed" that he became prime minister.


                You can perfectly debate with yourself)

                But an adult writes
              3. +2
                16 February 2014 07: 15
                Quote: professor
                However, it does not occur to anyone to blame Stalin for having been tried by Sharon. Feel the difference.

                Why compare Great Stalin, who created Israel by the way, with the builder of fences.
                1. 0
                  16 February 2014 10: 56
                  Quote: Dmitry
                  Why compare Great Stalin, who created Israel by the way, with the builder of fences.

                  I don't like fairy tales in the morning, better before going to bed tell me how Stalin created Israel and what would have happened to the mandated Palestine if Stalin had decided not to create Israel. Would the Britons return Palestine to the Ottoman Empire? laughing
          2. 0
            15 February 2014 20: 09
            You're lying, Jew! Stalin was the commander in chief, and he was minister after the Victory-Zhukov! hi (I don’t remember exactly what year. There is no desire to raise literature)
            1. +3
              15 February 2014 20: 13
              Quote: sscha
              You're lying, Jew!


              Here everyone has a nickname, do me a favor, contact the visitor by nickname and not by nationality.
          3. +1
            16 February 2014 04: 40
            Stalin was never the Minister of Defense. The Commander-in-Chief - yes, but not the Minister of Defense. After the war, Zhukov was the Minister of Defense.
          4. +1
            16 February 2014 07: 07
            Quote: professor
            The Minister of Defense then was Stalin Joseph Vissarionovich.

            Stalin was never the Minister of Defense, he was commander in chief.
            1. 0
              16 February 2014 10: 49
              Quote: Dmitry
              Stalin was never the Minister of Defense, he was commander in chief.

              Quote: Luke
              Stalin was never the Minister of Defense. The Commander-in-Chief - yes, but not the Minister of Defense. After the war, Zhukov was the Minister of Defense.

              To teach you and history?
              People's Commissariat of the Armed Forces of the USSR, from 15.3.1946 Ministry of Defense of the USSR. The People's Commissar of the Armed Forces of the USSR from July 19, 1941 to February 25, 1946 was Stalin Joseph Vissarionovich. Still need educational program?
              1. +2
                16 February 2014 12: 15
                Quote: professor
                To teach you and history?
                People's Commissariat of the Armed Forces of the USSR, from 15.3.1946 Ministry of Defense of the USSR. The People's Commissar of the Armed Forces of the USSR from July 19, 1941 to February 25, 1946 was Stalin Joseph Vissarionovich. Still need educational program?

                I don’t need to teach an educational program, the post of Minister of Defense was introduced on March 15, 1946 and was vacant, Bulganin became the first minister in 1947. , Stalin was the Supreme Commander. Wikipedia is not necessary to quote it created an American.
                1. 0
                  16 February 2014 12: 54
                  Quote: Dmitry
                  I don’t need to teach an educational program, the post of Minister of Defense was introduced on March 15, 1946 and was vacant, Bulganin became the first minister in 1947.

                  Educational program is not taught, it is carried out.

                  Quote: Dmitry
                  Stalin was the Supreme Commander

                  And who was the People's Commissar of the Armed Forces of the USSR? wink

                  Quote: Dmitry
                  Wikipedia is not necessary to quote it created by an American.

                  Throw your computer away - it was created by an American. fool
      2. +3
        15 February 2014 20: 05
        Question: where do you get the Russian name and surname from?
        I am not anti-Semite - my ski coach was a great person. blockade - Vasily Osipovich Guzhevich !!!
        But you are not even suitable for him !! And exclamations like "prove" why you are not suitable - I ignore, for people like you to Judas (which is true, because Judas is a Jew in Africa) to prove that the sun rises in the morning, and the snow is white, not black - I do not consider it necessary!
        Whoever wants to see, will see
        He who wants to hear will hear! hi
  7. +12
    15 February 2014 10: 47
    dear professor, the article mentioned two countries Iran and Iraq if the complexes
    so bad (in your words) that means Israel will not protest the sale of complexes
    to these countries? smile
    1. -9
      15 February 2014 11: 03
      Quote: kostyanich
      dear professor, the article mentioned two countries Iran and Iraq if the complexes
      so bad (in your words) that means Israel will not protest the sale of complexes to these countries? smile

      Israel even protests against the supply of ancient stingrays to these countries. 470 kg for a military facility will not cause serious harm, but it can civil.
      1. smersh70
        0
        15 February 2014 14: 42
        Quote: professor
        470 kg for a military facility will not cause serious harm, but it can civil.

        Professor, and with the S-300 you can shoot down Iskander or not ...
        1. +3
          15 February 2014 15: 17
          Quote: smersh70
          Professor, and with the S-300 you can shoot down Iskander or not ...

          It’s just like a question: who do you love more, dad or mom. The developers of Iskander claim that it can not be shot down. S-300 developers claim that it knocks everything down. In reality, neither one nor the other was in battle.
          1. +6
            15 February 2014 16: 54
            But Israel and the United States wrote in boiling water so that the S-300 would not be sold to Iraq. laughing
            And the Poles and gay Germans howl about Iskander in the Kaliningrad region. fellow
          2. smersh70
            +1
            15 February 2014 17: 01
            Quote: professor
            It’s just like a question: who do you love more, dad or mom.

            Well, let’s check when, if anything, Iskander will be given to Armenia wassat
            1. 0
              15 February 2014 17: 47
              Quote: smersh70
              Well, let’s check when, if anything, Iskander will be given to Armenia

              And you are bloodthirsty ... wink
          3. 0
            15 February 2014 20: 24
            Well done here! Soul does not bother! hi
      2. +3
        15 February 2014 15: 13
        470 kg of TNT with an accuracy of 10 km will destroy any mobile gearbox. And in combination with a second missile and warhead cassette - and radio communications.
        It will not be able to counter air defense missiles, because there is a complex to overcome missile defense (read the article), a complex trajectory and stealth missiles in radio beams.
        And if we take into account the penetrating warhead, which is mentioned in the article, then the protected KPs will also be destroyed.
        If in the warhead kit there is a type with guidance on radar radiation, then the air defense components will also suffer slightly.

        This is so, about
        470 kg for a military facility will not cause serious harm


        For your requirements, give links. Why do not you immediately require design documentation? laughing
        There is a lot of unclassified information.
        Even the Swedish WTO with a much lower warhead is equivalent to a nuclear warhead.
        For example:
        TAURUS KEPD 350/150 (Target Adaptive Unitary & Dispenser Robotic Ubiquity System / Kinetic Energy Penetrating Destroyer) is a long-range German-Swedish long-range air-to-surface airborne cruise missile designed for high-precision strikes and destruction of highly protected and deep-seated targets, including important point and extended objects, without a carrier aircraft entering the enemy’s air defense zone. Developed and manufactured by Taurus Systems GmbH based in Schrobenhausen - a joint venture of MBDA Deutschland (better known as LFK - Lenkflugkörpersysteme GmbH) and the Swedish company Saab Bofors Dynamics AB [3].

        TAURUS KEPD 350 - the basic model, with the tandem concrete-piercing warhead (TBBCH) MEPHISTO weighing 481 kg.

        TAURUS KEPD 350 L (Light - light) is a modification of TAURUS with less fueling and lightweight high-pressure fuel transfer system, which reduces the weight for placement on carriers with a lower carrying capacity [2] [4].

        TAURUS MP (Eng. Modular Payload - modular payload) is a rocket that provides the ability to install an arbitrary payload as a warhead [4].

        TAURUS M carries a multiple-charge warhead to engage distributed small-sized targets, such as air defense positions, launchers, command posts, etc. Little is known about the ammunition offered for this type of missile, but according to EADS / LFK they are capable of hitting targets effectively. accurate and inexpensive [2] [5].

        A number of sources report the possibility of using a multiply charged warhead:


        This is so in the first approximation. But there is still an AGM-88 HARM with a warhead weight of 66 kg. And nothing - enough for the radar. In any case, your overseas allies praise her.
        1. 0
          15 February 2014 17: 48
          Quote: andrey682006
          470 kg of TNT with an accuracy of 10 km will destroy any mobile gearbox. And in combination with a second missile and warhead cassette - and radio communications.

          The Iskander guidance system does not allow targeting on moving targets, because uses target information with a time delay.
          1. +2
            15 February 2014 18: 16
            A warhead guidance system for radio emission - allows?
            And the presence of the Aerofon warhead for 9k72 suggests the presence of a similar warhead for Iskander?
            Does a missile’s flight time allow the target to travel far?
            Is column movement possible to predict?
            And the text of the article
            According to Western experts, the Iskander-M operational tactical missile system, with its high precision and an arsenal of missiles for all occasions, will find worthy use not only in a big war, but also in a local conflict to destroy bases, places of concentration, and fortified militant positions. And in combination with the latest Russian reconnaissance systems of the complex missiles, you can hit targets in real time.

            did not notice?

            But still, I would not underestimate the phrase in the article:
            According to the expert, on the “Wave” it was planned to introduce the re-targeting of missiles in flight, according to information from aviation and other “eyes and ears” of reconnaissance-strike complexes. But the INF Treaty intervened.

            Not the fact that the developments did not develop, nor the fact that such missiles would not advertise. But if you add this fact to the development of GLONASS, drones and A-50, it is easy to conclude that if there are no such missiles yet, then they will appear soon.
            1. +2
              15 February 2014 19: 00
              Quote: andrey682006
              A warhead guidance system for radio emission - allows

              Iskander does not have such a seeker. As far as I remember, Temp and Oka too.
              Quote: andrey682006
              And the presence of the Aerofon warhead for 9k72 suggests the presence of a similar warhead for Iskander?

              Well, yes, Iskander has a similar GSN, only the photo is uploaded in digital format.
              Quote: andrey682006
              Is column movement possible to predict?

              Calculate the speed of the column 40-60km / h and the time of receipt of information. For example, a reconnaissance aircraft detected an enemy convoy and took a picture of it, landed, the reconnaissance unit decrypted the photo, handed it over to the command, then decided to strike at it, the photo was transferred to Iskander, the photo was uploaded, the rocket was launched ... Even if it was within 30 minutes. during this time, the enemy convoy will overcome 20-30 km., go anywhere, turn onto another road, etc. Where will the rocket fly? To an empty place ...
              1. +3
                15 February 2014 19: 33
                Aircraft-Survey-Landing-Decryption-Decision
                -hit? Are there any developments in this chain? laughing
                Space does not steer? Can’t you transfer the picture via radio? AWACC can not give target designation by coordinates indicating the direction of movement and speed of the target?

                It is strange that Iskander has no warhead with radio-frequency guidance. There is a point. What prevented doing also on Iskander? Maybe you just have to wait?

                Well, let me remind you about the retargeting in flight. IMHO, in the future must be implemented.
                1. +3
                  15 February 2014 20: 57
                  And how do we know that Iskander has a warhead. Official information in the open press for such as the PROFESSOR.
                2. +1
                  15 February 2014 23: 20
                  "Iskander has no radio-guided warheads" laughing
                  And who said no? bully
                3. -1
                  16 February 2014 04: 51
                  I did not understand, why bother with hovering over a photo, if you can point it by coordinates?
              2. 0
                18 February 2014 14: 35
                Iskander in detail (unclassified)
                http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-185.html
                - radar active GOS 9B918 - developed and produced by NPP "Radar MMS" as of 2009. In 2009, it is planned to serial production of 22 blocks for processing primary information for GOS 9B918 missiles 9M723-1F in 2010-2011.
        2. -4
          15 February 2014 17: 49
          Quote: andrey682006
          470 kg of TNT with an accuracy of 10 km will destroy any mobile gearbox. And in combination with a second missile and warhead cassette - and radio communications.

          if you are lucky and get

          Quote: andrey682006
          For your requirements, give links. Why do not you immediately require design documentation?

          When I refer to "experts" in my articles, I can ALWAYS give links.
          1. +1
            15 February 2014 18: 19
            Can you read your articles?
            1. -2
              15 February 2014 18: 22
              My webpage
              Quote: andrey682006
              Can you read your articles?

              Go to my profile - there is a link: Number of publications: 420 (View all publications)
              1. 0
                15 February 2014 19: 36
                Thanks, I read.
                Although, I must admit, I do not like advertising.
              2. 0
                15 February 2014 20: 34
                Translations.
                And I thought that you yourself are writing articles.
                1. 0
                  15 February 2014 20: 37
                  Quote: andrey682006
                  Translations.
                  And I thought that you yourself are writing articles.

                  And you do not think, you read. There are more than a hundred purely my articles.
                  1. 0
                    15 February 2014 23: 23
                    And it is sometimes useful to think .... "hundreds of purely mine" Did you think well when you wrote this? Are your articles signed? wassat
                    1. 0
                      16 February 2014 04: 52
                      They are "cleanly signed")
      3. 0
        15 February 2014 20: 23
        Unprofessional remark. hi
    2. 0
      15 February 2014 17: 03
      Quote: kostyanich
      dear professor, the article mentioned two countries Iran and Iraq if the complexes
      so bad (in your words) that means Israel will not protest the sale of complexes
      to these countries? smile

      Most likely it will not, these complexes do not reach Israel from the territory of Iraq or Iran.
      Iran already has so many missiles with a range of less than 1000km, and as long as these missiles remain in Iran, they do not bother us.
      Further - more, even the presence of such missiles in our neighbor - Syria, does not cause much concern (they have Scuds). And when the "Magic Wand" missile defense system enters the ABM troops, it will move from the category of strategic threats to the category of tactical ones.
      The problem begins when such complexes are handed over to illegal gangs, Hamas, Hezbollah, and al-Qaeda. This is where the next episode of the soap opera entitled "Aggression of the Zionist Air Force" begins, despite the "unparalleled" air defense and "Indignation hypocritical world community "
  8. Sobolev1961
    +2
    15 February 2014 11: 01
    Partisan missiles? Original but not very productive. Like a mortar on worbies.
    1. -1
      15 February 2014 17: 55
      Quote: Sobolev1961
      Partisan missiles? Original but not very productive. Like a mortar on worbies.

      Yes, it’s more politically correct despite the frank idiocy of the phrase
      Iskander-M, with its high accuracy and arsenal of missiles for all occasions, will find worthy use not only in a major war, but also in a local conflict, to destroy bases, concentration centers, and strengthened positions of militants.

      Iskander militants, you can’t imagine funnier ...
  9. +2
    15 February 2014 11: 02
    Quote: Sobolev1961
    Partisan missiles? Original but not very productive. Like a mortar on worbies.

    no not like this. missiles are more expensive. Much more expensive.
  10. Leshka
    +1
    15 February 2014 11: 28
    Iskander trump card in the confrontation with Europe
    1. +2
      15 February 2014 11: 54
      Quote: Leshka
      Iskander trump card in the confrontation with Europe

      YAO is the trump card.
      1. +2
        15 February 2014 16: 51
        That is, you deny the need and quality of the delivery vehicle for this nuclear weapon? Are you saying that accuracy is not important? And then, on the basis of your speculations, you will accuse the Russians of "waving a club" laughing
      2. -1
        16 February 2014 04: 55
        Professor, why are you distorting people? Iskander can also be equipped with an atomic warhead.
  11. 0
    15 February 2014 11: 36
    According to Yevgeny Putilov, the basis of military operations in Europe should have been strategic operations carried out by coalition groups of fronts according to a single plan and under a single command.
    To act this way, you need to deliver orders to each settlement on time.!. To act synchronously, according to a single plan, means that the automated control system must act: calculate the time for each unit to go to the firing position, bring the materiel into combat position, issue target designation and the exact time for launch.
  12. +3
    15 February 2014 11: 53
    Decent weapon
  13. +7
    15 February 2014 12: 04
    [quote = professor] "The Great Warrior" has not participated in any battle, but already a great one. Just like the Tsar cannon. fellow

    Mr. Sokolov, maybe you know those who would like to try the power of the complex on themselves? Well, whose opinion will be decisive for you. Announce the list pliz .....
    1. -9
      15 February 2014 12: 15
      Quote: igorspb
      Mr. Sokolov, maybe you know those who would like to try the power of the complex on themselves? Well, whose opinion will be decisive for you. Announce the list pliz .....

      At least Georgia. Where was this "great warrior" and what did he do on 8.8.8?

      It always starts like this: having no taxes in the world, a better world ... and then it appears: as a result of combat use it turned out ... request
      1. smersh70
        -1
        15 February 2014 14: 44
        Quote: professor
        At least Georgia. Where was this "great warrior" and what did he do on 8.8.8?

        It seems Point or Iskander fell into the courtyard of the 5th floor in Gori. at least there is a picture of the head of the rocket. Then Medvedev began to justify the low accuracy, that it was as if specially missiles had been applied to residential buildings in order to demoralize the enemy troops. Whether it was true or not, it was on Medvedev’s conscience .......
        1. +6
          15 February 2014 15: 35
          Quote: smersh70
          Quote: professor
          At least Georgia. Where was this "great warrior" and what did he do on 8.8.8?

          It seems Point or Iskander fell into the courtyard of the 5th floor in Gori. at least there is a picture of the head of the rocket. Then Medvedev began to justify the low accuracy, that it was as if specially missiles had been applied to residential buildings in order to demoralize the enemy troops. Whether it was true or not, it was on Medvedev’s conscience .......

          Dear SMERSH .. ask the professor "if from the Syrian side, allegedly Iskanders fly into the blue sky .. flying in circles and not defining a target .. Here are their Israeli rackets, our planes shot down in Georgia .. But if we test our own ... on Israel .. ??? They are not against such an exchange ..? We will just exchange ..! bully
          1. +1
            15 February 2014 17: 15
            Quote: MIKHAN

            ... now if we test ours ... in Israel .. ???

            And what is asked, have you been engaged in the last 60 years ?! belay This is precisely the exchange that you so passionately desired now has a place to be. lol
            1. +2
              15 February 2014 18: 06
              Quote: And Us Rat
              And what are you asking the last 60 years? belay This is exactly the exchange you so crave for and now has a place to be. lol

              Yes, the Arabs tried to teach how to use and fight normally .. alas, not trained ..))))
              1. +1
                15 February 2014 20: 13
                Quote: MIKHAN

                Yes, the Arabs tried to teach how to use and fight normally .. alas, not trained ..))))

                Well, well, our Arabs are SUDDENLY trained, and well trained, but yours are not? Maybe there’s a problem in the teacher? lol

                1. +1
                  16 February 2014 15: 38
                  That's right at that level, i.e. drill and berdanok they are trained. A more detailed answer was in the article about 82 year
                  1. 0
                    17 February 2014 01: 59
                    Quote: sivuch
                    That's right at that level, i.e. drill and berdanok they are trained. A more detailed answer was in the article about 82 year

                    Tell them about it.
                    1. 0
                      17 February 2014 02: 13
                      Very touching. I crawled
                    2. 0
                      17 February 2014 12: 39
                      And I thought, you show me the radar operator
            2. +2
              15 February 2014 20: 33
              And they were engaged in the fact that they saved you from Hitler and death, and then they shared the good in UN to create your state! hi
              What ? Has the memory gone? hi
              1. 0
                15 February 2014 20: 40
                Quote: sscha
                And they were engaged in the fact that they saved you from Hitler and death, and then they shared the good in UN to create your state!

                Did you personally save? Or did the government of the USSR have such a goal to save Jews? No one specifically lifted a finger to save the Jews.
              2. 0
                15 February 2014 21: 09
                Quote: sscha
                And they were engaged in the fact that they saved you from Hitler and death, and then they shared the good in UN to create your state! hi
                What ? Has the memory gone? hi

                You saved yourself from Hitler (and by the way, both of my grandfathers actively helped you in this on the front line) and the Jews didn’t care about you, and the fact that having stumbled upon a couple of concentration camps in Dorga, they began to try on the mantle of savior, it doesn’t bring much honor, considering that all Jews with USSR citizenship from Hitler’s camps went straight to Stalin’s.
                Now about the UN - yes, they voted, and then finding out that Israel does not plan to become the 16 republic of the USSR, and does not want to stand on the rails of communism - for 50 years they tried to destroy it with the wrong hands.
                And we remember all this very well.
                1. rolik
                  +1
                  16 February 2014 00: 56
                  Quote: And Us Rat
                  You saved yourself from Hitler

                  If they saved only themselves, they would have reached the old borders. And they left the concentration camps and ghettos with your ancestors to the fascists. How many millions less representatives of the Jewish nation would be on the planet now ??? And that the Krakow ghetto is a wonderful place to support the sons and daughters of David.
                  We also remember very well how Israel flipped over feeling independent. Therefore, we will continue to render all assistance to the allied Arab countries in the purification of illegally occupied lands.
                  1. 0
                    16 February 2014 02: 45
                    Quote: rolik
                    If they saved only themselves, they would have reached the old borders.

                    Yeah, and they would give Hitler time to brush off the western front, regroup and come to the second round more prepared.
                    Or, if he was defeated, they would have let YSA and other "bourgeois" close to their western borders, without a buffer zone called the "Warsaw Pact Organization" lol Himself is not funny? laughing

                    Quote: rolik
                    Therefore, we will continue to render all assistance to the allied Arab countries in the purification of illegally occupied lands.

                    You will not, Vova gave a tooth. tongue laughing
        2. +3
          15 February 2014 16: 13
          Quote: smersh70
          It seems Point or Iskander fell into the courtyard of the 5th floor in Gori. at least there is a picture of the head of the rocket. Then, already low accuracy, Medvedev began to justify that it was as if specially missiles had been applied to residential buildings in order to demoralize the enemy troops.

          It was a point. The Israeli journalist personally familiar to me suffered from this attack.
          1. +1
            15 February 2014 17: 59
            Quote: professor
            It was a point. The Israeli journalist personally familiar to me suffered from this attack.

            They sorted the remains and came to the conclusion that it was Iskander. I can assume that they launched a target without a loaded photo, purely according to the ANN, where they say 30-60m.
      2. -1
        15 February 2014 15: 21
        What did you find out?
      3. +1
        15 February 2014 20: 29
        S_L _O_VoB_L_U_D. hi
  14. +8
    15 February 2014 12: 24
    Sometimes, in order to level the superiority of the enemy in offensive means, it is necessary to apply asymmetric responses. In the people this is called ingenuity. In the military, the use of weapons that can solve certain goals by unconventional methods, in many ways puts the enemy in a position where he has to think. before attacking.
    The Soviet school of rocketry (all the more so in the absence of a competitive one among the Westerners) in many ways equalizes the lag in the quantitative factor. I mean, in the event of a conflict, the enemy knows that a missile "Domokles sword" hangs over his head. That in the case of enemy air superiority, it will still allow reaching his targets in the depths of the territory.
    He himself served in a missile brigade, at that time armed with the 9K72 complex, in the common people in the West called "Scud". True, now this only missile brigade in Belarus is armed with "Tochki". That, in principle, given the size of the country, allows you to solve certain problems in the event of a conflict. And its location practically in the geographical center of the republic makes the reaction time to any intrusion minimal.
    And the criterion "cost - effectiveness" allows you to inflict damage on the enemy without the use of aviation, especially if the enemy has air defense systems. That in a local conflict, I think, is effective. soldier
  15. bubble82009
    -4
    15 February 2014 12: 58
    in general, such a system of weapons, as well as RZSO type Grad, Hurricane, Tornado are unpromising. They will stand dead weight when performing specific tasks. the personnel are inactive. it makes sense to keep several separate parts with similar tasks? you need to make a complex like the American MLRS. he can use the module to perform various tasks. to cover targets both at the front and in the rear. this will reduce such parts and use them more efficiently.
    1. +1
      15 February 2014 15: 33
      Bagel, have you read the article?
      It also says about the modularity of the Iskander, about the use of cruise and ballistic missiles.
      It mentions penetrating warheads. And about the cassette and high explosive they wrote in the open press.
      We already have a complex like the American MLRS - Tornado-S.
      What else do you need?
      What "specific tasks" are you writing about?
      What does "make sense to keep several separate parts with the performance of similar tasks?" - which parts are you writing about? What "similar tasks"?
      Do you consider artillery support in the interests of brigades of the first and second echelons (20-30 km) and the destruction of airfields and command posts at a distance of up to 500 km to be "similar tasks"?
    2. 0
      15 February 2014 23: 31
      Sir, you check out the TTX MLRS, and then blather wassat
  16. +3
    15 February 2014 14: 00
    Dear professor, since the state of Israel is completely dependent on the views of your relatives across the ocean and pursues a policy that generally serves their interests, it is an enemy for my country and therefore I don’t care where the cornets came from or how many tanks they burned. (The more the better) I must say , nationalities do not interest me.
    1. -1
      15 February 2014 14: 06
      Quote: 1c-inform-city
      so I don’t care where the cornets came from and how many tanks they burned. (the more the better)

      especially when you consider that real Russian citizens died, then your "nationality does not interest me" somehow does not add up. I remember on 8.8.8 the Russian army invaded the territory of a sovereign state "to protect its citizens" living there. I wonder why Russian troops did not enter the war with Lebanon to protect their citizens living in Israel? A rhetorical question.
      1. +8
        15 February 2014 14: 22
        Professor do not play fair. Leaving the question of sovereignty. 8.8.8 attacked the base of Russian peacekeepers, and this is direct aggression against the state under whose flag they were. In the case of Lebanon, there were no Russian peacekeepers there, and Israel is not a whipping boy, and did not ask for help. and would hardly accept if offered.
        1. 0
          15 February 2014 15: 23
          Quote: PDM80
          In the case of Lebanon, there were no Russian peacekeepers there, and Israel is not a whipping boy, and did not ask for help. and would hardly accept if offered.

          Show me the UN decision on which Russian troops in South Ossetia have become peacemakers. 8.8.8 did not have a peacekeeping mandate. request
          1. +6
            15 February 2014 15: 44
            And where are the UN decisions on ground operations in Libya? And in Iraq?
            And where is the UN decision on nuclear weapons in Israel? wassat
            1. -3
              15 February 2014 16: 03
              Quote: andrey682006
              And where are the UN decisions on ground operations in Libya? And in Iraq?
              And where is the UN decision on nuclear weapons in Israel? wassat

              1. In Libya, there was such a decision.
              2. No one will dare to call peacemakers there.
              1. +4
                15 February 2014 16: 29
                1. At the UN in Libya, there was no decision on a ground operation, do not lie.
                You recognized Iraq as a miscalculation of the UN? Which the United States, the Saudis and Israel took advantage of.
                2. The language does not turn? What did you mean? What peacekeepers?

                Israel decided not to advertise nuclear weapons? But what about the implementation of UN resolutions? What about international law? And the fight against the spread of nuclear weapons?
                You wanted to present Israel as a law-abiding state that respects international law?
                By the way, tell us how international law is combined with the Israeli bombing of the Iranian nuclear center?
                1. -3
                  15 February 2014 16: 58
                  Quote: andrey682006
                  Israel decided not to advertise nuclear weapons? But what about the implementation of UN resolutions? What about international law? And the fight against the spread of nuclear weapons?

                  Let's do something in detail.
                  Let's start with UN resolutions, international law and the NPT. I am waiting for your examples (with links, of course), and not an empty, childish chatter.
                  1. +3
                    15 February 2014 17: 17
                    well if by subject, then I did not answer you, but to the professor.
                    And he wrote first of all that neither Israel nor the United States by UN resolutions bothers, but bombing then and as they need. Therefore, I consider the requirement of these countries to Russia to comply with international law unreasonable (to put it mildly).
                    Israel
                    Israel is engaged in nuclear development at a nuclear center in the town of Dimona (Negev desert). In the mid-1980s, Mordechai Vanunu, a nuclear center technician who fled from Israel, told the Sunday Times in London that the center was developing nuclear weapons and that Israel had accumulated between 1958 and 100 warheads since 200. Official Israel refuses to confirm or refute allegations of its nuclear development. Israel, being a member of the IAEA, in every possible way evades joining the NPT, is not a party to international agreements on control of nuclear exports. Israel ignores and makes it difficult to promote the idea of ​​creating a nuclear-free zone in the Middle East [1]. The position of Israel under the NPT makes a large group of countries non-aligned with the Convention on the Prohibition of Biological and Toxin Weapons (BTWC) and the Convention on the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (CWC) [2]. In 2010, at a meeting in Vienna, the head of the Israeli Atomic Energy Commission, Shaul Horev, once again stated that Israel would not sign the non-proliferation treaty [3]. Former IAEA Director Mohammed ElBaradei viewed Israel as a nuclear-weapon state [4].

                    Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty text: http://www.un.org/en/documents/decl_conv/conventions/npt.shtml
                    Signatory States: http://www.fas.org/nuke/control/npt/text/npt3.htm
                    With nuclear superiority, Israel is making it difficult to advance the idea of ​​creating a zone free of weapons of mass destruction in the Middle East, put forward in United Nations General Assembly Resolution 3263 of December 9, 1974.
                    (http://www.inforos.ru/ru/?module=news&action=view&id=35135)

                    J. Pike, an arms specialist, director of the Global Security Organization, called the preservation of the nuclear monopoly in the Middle East "the cornerstone of Israeli security policy." Israel, on the one hand, seeks to maintain high-quality non-nuclear military superiority that can persuade a potential adversary to abandon the use of force and guarantee victory in the conflict without the use of nuclear weapons, and on the other hand, block any attempts by its potential adversaries to obtain nuclear weapons. This doctrine was formulated by Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin after the Israeli air strike on the Iraqi Osirak nuclear research reactor on June 7, 1981 [8]. The doctrine continued with an airstrike on the alleged nuclear reactor in Syria (2007), the killing of Iranian nuclear scientists, as well as cyber attacks on nuclear and other facilities in Iran [11].

                    http://www.iimes.ru/?p=3540

                    Well, in the general popular science form:
                    http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Оружие_массового_поражения_
                    Israel
                    1. -1
                      15 February 2014 17: 23
                      Quote: andrey682006
                      Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty text: http://www.un.org/en/documents/decl_conv/conventions/npt.shtml
                      Signatory States: http://www.fas.org/nuke/control/npt/text/npt3.htm

                      Find Israel in the list - you will find - I agree. but somehow it is crazy to blame someone for violating a contract that he did not sign. Russia also did not sign an international treaty banning anti-personnel mines. Can she be accused of violating what she did not sign?
                      Further, familiarize yourself with the concept of the UN Resolution and the resolution of the UN Security Council. When you understand the difference, then we’ll talk more specifically.
                      1. +2
                        15 February 2014 17: 35
                        And then you have not read the dirt that various "human rights" organizations are pouring on Russia, including for not signing the treaty banning antipersonnel mines.
                        That is, if you didn’t sign it, then Israel is a law-abiding state?
                        And why did Israel itself bomb the Iraqi nuclear center? In accordance with the resolutions?
                        If not, then what prevents on the same grounds from bombing the nuclear centers of Israel itself?

                        Or is a formal approach important to you? Legal?
                      2. -2
                        15 February 2014 17: 51
                        Quote: andrey682006
                        And why did Israel itself bomb the Iraqi nuclear center? In accordance with the resolutions?

                        Duc Iraq was the first to attack Israel. Forgot?
                      3. 0
                        15 February 2014 19: 38
                        Well yes! laughing
                        And bombed the Israeli nuclear center?
                      4. -1
                        15 February 2014 20: 43
                        Quote: andrey682006
                        And bombed the Israeli nuclear center?

                        hunting or are you really interested in?
                      5. -3
                        15 February 2014 18: 06
                        Quote: andrey682006
                        And then you have not read the dirt that various "human rights" organizations are pouring on Russia, including for not signing the treaty banning antipersonnel mines.

                        No, I don’t understand? Signed the RF agreement or not? And if you didn’t sign it, violates it or not - let's be more specific

                        Quote: andrey682006
                        That is, if you didn’t sign it, then Israel is a law-abiding state?

                        In Iran, according to the law, women walk with their heads covered, does Dunk Fortochkina violate the law without putting on a headscarf while living in Uryupinsk?
                        Quote: andrey682006
                        And why did Israel itself bomb the Iraqi nuclear center?
                        In general, Iraq and I are at war, and officially - therefore they bombed - Iraq had the right to respond

                        Quote: andrey682006
                        If not, then what prevents on the same grounds from bombing the nuclear centers of Israel itself?

                        Nothing disturbed
                        Quote: andrey682006
                        Or is a formal approach important to you? Legal?

                        No, we are used to dealing with our enemies on our terms

                        But, back to our sheep, otherwise we jumped off the topic, so what about the NPT? Is Israel violating or not?
                      6. 0
                        15 February 2014 19: 52
                        Israel does not formally violate.
                        And Iran does not violate.
                        And Pakistan.
                        And India.
                        And North Korea.
                        But your allies treat them somehow differently, don't they?
                        Some can be bombed, others not. Why? Congress lobby?

                        But for some reason you justify the attack on Iran with a state of war. And your prime minister is a threat to peace.
                        After all, you can formulate the question differently. For example, Iran, wishing to protect itself from Israeli nuclear weapons, is fighting for nuclear disarmament around the world. After all, we understand that the truth does not play a role here, but how strong are your allies? Including in the sense of propaganda.

                        And with such clever logic, Israel will wait for China's world leadership and fall under sanctions like Iran. Or maybe under a similar bombing in an effort to fight for world peace already other world leaders.
                        The conditions there will no longer be yours.
              2. +4
                15 February 2014 17: 05
                Quote: professor
                1. In Libya, there was such a decision.

                There was no decision on a ground operation.
                1. 0
                  15 February 2014 17: 52
                  Quote: ultra
                  There was no decision on a ground operation.

                  Was there a ground operation? wink
                  1. +1
                    15 February 2014 19: 54
                    And what about nuclear weapons in Israel? hi
          2. +2
            15 February 2014 15: 48
            Well, their role can be evaluated from different angles. In Iraq and Afghanistan, the same is fighting for peace. And the UN has not fulfilled its functions for a long time and does not solve anything.
          3. +3
            15 February 2014 16: 11
            Quote: professor
            Show me the UN decision on which Russian troops in South Ossetia have become peacemakers. 8.8.8 did not have a peacekeeping mandate.

            You just did not ask! To the mission of the OPCW at least join or it is ugly as it comes out! am
            Israel and Myanmar (signatories to the Chemical Weapons Convention, but not ratifying them), as well as South Sudan, Angola, Egypt, North Korea, which did not sign the Chemical Weapons Convention and did not accede to it, are not members of the OPCW.

            Myanmar, North Korea and South Sudan have a good environment! Moralists .......! am
            1. -3
              15 February 2014 16: 21
              Quote: Sid.74
              You just did not ask !!!

              So was there a mandate or not? wink
              1. +3
                15 February 2014 16: 36
                We are obliged to protect our citizens and peacekeepers without a mandate!
                An attack on peacekeepers in the understanding of our "friends" from the UN is a grave crime! Here are a couple of examples for you!

                The United Nations and the United States condemned yesterday’s bombing in Lebanon - around the city of Sidon, whose goal was a United Nations vehicle. Six French peacekeepers were injured.
                The UN Security Council called the incident a "terrorist attack" and condemned attempts to undermine stability in Lebanon and endanger security in that country. The US State Department has called on the Lebanese authorities to investigate the attack and bring the organizers to justice.

                UN, 17 July / Xinhua / - The Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court / ICC / Luis Moreno-Ocampo on Thursday announced that the ICC will investigate an attack on peacekeepers in the Sudanese district of Darfur.
                L. Moreno-Ocampo told the media at the UN headquarters in New York that day that any attacks on peacekeepers are criminal, and he has the right to conduct appropriate investigations.

                So we have the right!
                And when will you give up "chemistry"? And then even the "bloody" regime of Assad and he refused laughing
                1. -3
                  15 February 2014 17: 02
                  Quote: Sid.74
                  We are obliged to protect our citizens and peacekeepers without a mandate!

                  Dear in Israel, Russian citizens are more than in Syria, Abkhazia, Ossetia --- combined. Yesterday they walked out in the restaurant, in the neighboring company the consul of the Russian Federation was, and how do you think of 400 people of guests, how many were Russian citizens?
                  100% more than half and it’s just that, observation.
                  1. +4
                    15 February 2014 17: 27
                    Quote: atalef
                    Dear in Israel, Russian citizens are more than in Syria, Abkhazia, Ossetia --- combined. Yesterday they walked out in the restaurant, in the neighboring company the consul of the Russian Federation was, and how do you think of 400 people of guests, how many were Russian citizens?


                    And then I call on Israel to impose Iskanders on all sides! And bomb weddings! No! But I would call Israel’s policy towards Russia not friendly! It’s a matter of time when all politics will turn upside down! BV is already burning with a blue flame And your throwing in search of allies and not an open alliance with the CA, is proof of that! And as a US soldier from Afghanistan and Iraq, they will completely withdraw so much worse! it was their voluntary decision to leave Russia and send vitsya their historical homeland!
                    It is extremely unpleasant for us to listen to some of your "fellow tribesmen" who pour out vomit in all the media how can you not become an anti-Semite! No.
                    1. -1
                      15 February 2014 18: 08
                      Quote: Sid.74
                      And what I urge Israel to impose on Iskander from all sides!

                      No you are calling

                      Quote: Sid.74
                      We are obliged to protect our citizens and peacekeepers without a mandate

                      Start small - don't supply weapons to Hezbollah and Hamas
                      1. +3
                        15 February 2014 18: 31
                        And this has to do with it. It is necessary to distinguish between Russian citizens, persons with dual citizenship, and persons immigrants from Russia but with Israeli citizenship. Do you have data on how many Russian citizens permanently reside in Israel, not Russian-speaking, but namely citizens.
                        And if these citizens need help, protection, let them officially contact, place a base, a limited contingent, you yourself understand the remoteness, etc., at the same time, there may be an occasion for Iskander to check winked
                      2. +1
                        15 February 2014 18: 39
                        Quote: PDM80
                        Do you have data on how many Russian citizens permanently reside in Israel, not Russian-speaking, but namely citizens.

                        How many compatriots living in Israel do you serve?

                        If we talk about people with Russian citizenship who entered the consular registration in Tel Aviv - then about 150 thousand. At the Consulate General in Haifa, serving citizens living from Hadera and Beit Shean to the north, there are tens of thousands more. Tentatively in total - this is about 200 thousand. Of these, only retirees - more than 36 thousand (two-thirds of them are in our district).

                        Consul of Russia in Israel on "passport problems". Interview

                        Quote: PDM80
                        And if these citizens need help, protection, let them officially contact, place a base, a limited contingent, you yourself understand the remoteness, etc., at the same time, there may be an occasion for Iskander to check

                        Where to go? All together or individually? bully
                      3. +1
                        15 February 2014 18: 57
                        So it’s necessary to the consul. Which restaurant he goes to is known drinks
                      4. +1
                        15 February 2014 19: 40
                        Thanks for the link. it turns out first by hook or by crook from Russia now in line that they will return smile as much as 3 percent with a percent of Israeli citizens. Just for the sake of justice, the population of Abkhazia and Ossetia together is a little more than 300 people, I won’t say the number of Russian citizens, but I think that the vast majority. And there is no army, no modern weapons
                      5. +4
                        15 February 2014 18: 59
                        Quote: atalef
                        Start small - don't supply weapons to Hezbollah and Hamas
                        What do you say and there is evidence?
                      6. +1
                        15 February 2014 20: 51
                        Quote: atalef
                        Start small - don't supply weapons to Hezbollah and Hamas

                        laughing Abrakadabra !!! Your wish is fulfilled, starting today I stop supplying weapons to Hezbollah and Hamas tongue laughing
                    2. +1
                      15 February 2014 20: 37
                      Quote: Sid.74
                      But the policy of Israel towards Russia I would not call comradely!

                      Compared with what was 30 years ago - more than a friendly policy, and from year to year it only improves.

                      And your throwing in search of allies and not a vowel alliance with the SA, confirmation of this!

                      There is no throwing, we have the PRC and India in reserve, which sleep and see to shove YSA from the position of "Friend of Israel N ° 1". And there are no "unspoken unions" - the Wakhabis hate us as much as you, and as well as YUSA. Leisure speculation.

                      And I want to remind you that after the collapse of the USSR, no one expelled from Russia by force, it was their voluntary decision to leave Russia and go to their historical homeland!

                      Voluntary? Have you had to fight half the class and the yard every day just because you are of the "wrong nationality"? Have your parents ever been discriminated against in the "fifth column" in their passports? Don't talk about what you don't know.

                      It is extremely unpleasant for us to listen to some of your "fellow tribesmen" who pour out vomit in all the media how can you not become an anti-Semite! No.

                      We also often find it unpleasant to read them, just like their counterparts from the opposite camp. It's simple - do not read the yellow press, it helps me.
                      1. +1
                        15 February 2014 21: 31
                        Quote: And Us Rat
                        Compared with what was 30 years ago - more than a friendly policy, and from year to year it only improves.

                        But yes, judging by the passions on the site, it’s not very friendly yet, although I do not rule out that everyone is captivated by his own ambitions and stereotypes!
                        Quote: And Us Rat
                        There is no throwing, we have the PRC and India in reserve, which sleep and see to shove YSA from the position of "Friend of Israel N ° 1". And there are no "unspoken unions" - the Wakhabis hate us as much as you, and as well as YUSA. Leisure speculation.

                        Do you think that Israel and the Soviet Union slandered the media!? And not a union, even though there was no short-term! Say a temporary coincidence of interests! Well, I do not know!what
                        You understand that we believe with you and tsakhal, aman and mossad have!
                        The multi-vector policy of Israel has been fixed for decades of its existence!
                        Quote: And Us Rat
                        Voluntary? Have you had to fight half the class and the yard every day just because you are of the "wrong nationality"? Have your parents ever been discriminated against in the "fifth column" in their passports? Don't talk about what you don't know.

                        I just wrote that after the collapse of the USSR!? At that time, and nationality became a sort of relic of the past, all of a sudden they became Russians! Why don't I remember that!
                        Quote: And Us Rat
                        We also often find it unpleasant to read them, just like their counterparts from the opposite camp. It's simple - do not read the yellow press, it helps me.

                        Unfortunately, wherever you go, the news will either echo or rain! And these liberals are right everywhere, so sorry! hi
              2. +2
                15 February 2014 17: 16
                Quote: professor
                So was there a mandate or not?

                UNO - no, there was an agreement between Russia, Georgia and South Ossetia on conducting peacekeeping activities, by the way, on the basis of them, in the territory of the self-determined South Ossetia there were also Georgian units of the peacekeeping contingent ...
                1. +2
                  15 February 2014 17: 53
                  Quote: svp67
                  UNO - no, there was an agreement between Russia, Georgia and South Ossetia on conducting peacekeeping activities, by the way, on the basis of them, in the territory of the self-determined South Ossetia there were also Georgian units of the peacekeeping contingent ...

                  But Georgia, before the war, demanded that the UN withdraw Russian troops from its territory. Link to bring?
                  1. +1
                    15 February 2014 17: 55
                    Quote: professor
                    But Georgia, before the war, demanded that the UN withdraw Russian troops from its territory. Link to bring?
                    And is there a DECISION of the assembly or the UN Security Council?
                  2. +1
                    15 February 2014 18: 00
                    Quote: professor
                    But Georgia, before the war, demanded that the UN withdraw Russian troops from its territory. Link to bring?

                    You never know what Mishiko, an inadequate tie-eater, demanded! Abkhazia and South Ossetia did not think so! Your twist of facts is meaningless!
                    1. -1
                      15 February 2014 18: 26
                      Quote: Sid.74
                      You never know what Mishiko, an inadequate tie-eater, demanded! Abkhazia and South Ossetia did not think so! Your twist of facts is meaningless!

                      Russian President Vladimir Putin congratulated Mikhail Saakashvili on his election as President of Georgia. This was reported on Thursday to "Interfax" in the press service of the head of the Russian state.

                      COMMONWEALTH OF INDEPENDENT STATES (CIS), community of former republics of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. It was formed in accordance with the agreement signed on December 8, 1991 in Viskuly (the residence of the Government of Belarus) by the leaders of Belarus, the Russian Federation and Ukraine, as well as with the protocol to this agreement, which was signed on December 21, 1991 in Alma-Ata (Kazakhstan) by the leaders 11 republics of the former USSR: Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan (Kyrgyzstan), Moldova (Moldova), the Russian Federation, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and Ukraine. In December 1993, Georgia joined the CIS
                      ОThe relations between the CIS member states are based on the principles of respect for the sovereignty, self-determination and territorial integrity of countries and non-interference in their foreign policy and internal affairs, the inviolability of existing borders, the non-use of force and the resolution of disputes by peaceful means, as well as the rule of law.

                      Now explain to me, it seems to me that South Ossetia and Abkhazia were geographically part of Georgia (the borders of which the Russian Federation was recognized) and managed by the president of a sovereign country - the legitimacy of which was recognized by the Russian Federation.
                      Saakashvili, under international law, had the authority to demand to leave the territory of his country’s armed forces of another country (located without an UN mandate) and to undertake methods to return the integrity of the country.
                      Or do you want to say that the war in Chechnya was also not legal, like the attempt of the Russian Federation to restore the country's integrity by returning Chechnya to the fold of the Russian Federation?
                      1. +4
                        15 February 2014 18: 49
                        Quote: atalef
                        Now explain to me, it seems to me that South Ossetia and Abkhazia are territorially part of Georgia (the borders of which were recognized by the Russian Federation)

                        So, the UN warned that the precedent from Kosovo is an erroneous step that would entail very dumb things! And the recognition of South Ossetia and Abkhazia is a forced step! , this is the case if you intend to protect Mishiko!
                        Quote: atalef
                        Saakashvili, under international law, had the authority to demand to leave the territory of his country’s armed forces of another country (located without an UN mandate) and to undertake methods to return the integrity of the country.

                        This fucking patriot is now hiding from Georgian citizens in the US! The integrity of the country? This is like a complete genocide of Abkhazians and Ossetians!
                        Oh, how do you disguise horror just! negativeDo you want to somehow elevate yourself in front of everyone, by dipping others into the dark pages of history!? It sucks you get allies to find!
                      2. smersh70
                        +1
                        16 February 2014 00: 05
                        Quote: Sid.74
                        It’s like through the complete genocide of Abkhazians and Ossetians!
                        By the way, Tsanakoev went over to Misha’s side, and he was Prime Minister at Kakoyev’s. Part of the Ossetians at the beginning also sided with the Georgians, so to speak, after Tsanakoev’s conversion, he still had the influence of a certain part of the Ossetians. By the way, they still live in a refugee village. so there was no genocide, and what kind of genocide for the 20000 people living there is enough of officialdom, we are not on the RTR channel)))) we normally talk)))))
                      3. 0
                        16 February 2014 00: 30
                        Quote: smersh70
                        so there was no genocide, and what genocide for 20000

                        That is, 1500 people are so little things! Well, think it overwhelmed !!! With a population of about 72000 people! 1500 thousands of nonsense! One forty-eighth of the population only!
                        Well, think of the third party peacekeepers killed! What a trifle!
                        That you wanted to hear from me! ???
                        Do not wait!
                        If I said that the population of Azerbaijan tomorrow will be reduced by violent methods to 200000 thousand people, also about forty-eighth of the population of Azerbaijan alone, think what kind of garbage !! What epithets would you have hung on me then !?
                      4. smersh70
                        +1
                        16 February 2014 00: 47
                        Quote: Sid.74
                        That is 1500 people are so little things!
                        I don’t knowingly hello the example of RTR))) people in the know and I don’t remember who, said somehow that the insert on RTR - in Ossetia, 2000 people were killed was delivered specially as part of the information war. In the volumes of the criminal case of the Prosecutor’s Office of the Russian Federation, there is clearly the figure of 131 people. Even in an interview, a representative of the Prosecutor’s Office said that the death toll was not established beyond that
                        Quote: Sid.74
                        72000 people
                        you probably have a census during the years of the Soviet Union))) but only 20000 people live there, including residents of Georgian villages. All the youth dispersed, there were only old people, women, and security officials with teachers. And this applies to all villages. If you do not believe me, watch the video frames from 08. the villages are half empty.

                        Quote: Sid.74
                        What epithets would you have hung on me then !?
                        I to you. What are you. You always eat objectively good true with some deviations in favor of our neighbors smile
                      5. +4
                        15 February 2014 19: 12
                        Quote: atalef
                        Saakashvili, under international law, had the authority to demand to leave the territory of his country’s armed forces of another country (located without an UN mandate) and to undertake methods to return the integrity of the country.
                        It is very interesting, it seems that there are many decisions of the assemblies and the Security Council calling on Israel to liberate the occupied territories, and what about their implementation?
                      6. +2
                        15 February 2014 19: 58
                        Now explain to me, it seems to me that South Ossetia and Abkhazia were geographically part of Georgia (the borders of which the Russian Federation was recognized) and managed by the president of a sovereign country - the legitimacy of which was recognized by the Russian Federation.
                        Saakashvili, under international law, had the authority to demand to leave the territory of his country’s armed forces of another country (located without an UN mandate) and to undertake methods to return the integrity of the country.
                        Or do you want to say that the war in Chechnya was also not legal, like the attempt of the Russian Federation to restore the country's integrity by returning Chechnya to the fold of the Russian Federation?

                        Saakashvili really had such powers. And South Ossetia and Abkhazia had the right to self-determination. And Russia recognized their right. And she defended the free choice of fraternal peoples.
                        And why is it possible in Yugoslavia, but not in Georgia? lol

                        As for Chechnya, who will risk it? International law - that drawbar, like a strong one turned - and so it happened.
                  3. +1
                    15 February 2014 18: 32
                    Is there a UN decision?
              3. +2
                15 February 2014 20: 37
                Quote: professor
                So was there a mandate or not?

                On the basis of what mandate, Israel strikes in Syria. Well, to whom, to whom, and you should be silent ...
                And our peacekeepers were there legally. It was not for nothing that the battalions were mixed, consisting of both Georgians, Ossetians and the Russian Federation.
                1. 0
                  15 February 2014 21: 15
                  Quote: Russ69
                  On the basis of what mandate, Israel strikes in Syria. Well, to whom, to whom, and you should be silent ...

                  Israel is at war with Syria.

                  Quote: Russ69
                  And our peacekeepers were there legally.

                  Based on what law? Do not tell me the resolution number?
                2. smersh70
                  0
                  16 February 2014 00: 06
                  Quote: Russ69
                  It was not for nothing that the battalions were mixed, consisting of both Georgians, Ossetians and the Russian Federation.

                  Peacekeeping forces were mixed, but the battalions were national and only-bearded
                  1. 0
                    16 February 2014 00: 12
                    Quote: smersh70
                    Peacekeeping forces were mixed, but the battalions were national and only-bearded

                    Well, yes, he didn’t put it right ... But the meaning is the same.
            2. -2
              15 February 2014 16: 59
              Quote: Sid.74
              Your environment is good Myanmar, North Korea, South Sudan! Moralists ..

              DPRK laughing Do you have anything against the DPRK?
              1. +3
                15 February 2014 17: 35
                Quote: atalef
                DPRK laughing Do you have anything against the DPRK?

                Yes, in principle, there is nothing! Only they say they have dogs, they feed their uncles !!! And the DPRK, together with Iran, is a threat to the US and the EU! Look how "patriots" in Europe and place locators! They hide behind umbrellas laughing
                1. -2
                  15 February 2014 17: 56
                  Quote: Sid.74
                  Yes, in principle, not what! They just say dogs, they feed uncles!

                  do not worry about this, then they will eat the same dogs

                  Quote: Sid.74
                  And the DPRK paired with Iran is a threat to the US and the EU!

                  Does this bother you?

                  Quote: Sid.74
                  Look how patriots in Europe and locators are setting! Umbrellas hide behind

                  So how then to understand your post
                  Quote: Sid.74
                  your environment is good Myanmar, North Korea, South Sudan! Moralists .......!

                  Quote: Sid.74
                  And when will you give up "chemistry"? And then even the "bloody" regime of Assad and he refused

                  This is his personal affair; he might not have refused
                  It seemed to me (by chance) that it was the Russian Federation that made him do it (thanks to the GDP).
                  Quote: Sid.74
                  But I would call the policy of Israel towards Russia not friendly

                  Do we have a policy? Trade - yes, that's when the Russian Federation will cease to supply weapons to our enemies - then maybe there will be a policy
                  Quote: Sid.74
                  your throwing in search of allies and a vowel alliance with the SA, confirmation of this!

                  In general, with SA diplomatic relations with you and various princes go to you, here they are somehow not seen. And about the allies - they are all looking for - the Russian Federation is no exception. That kind of Venezuela why the heck RF? And they say an ally

                  Quote: Sid.74
                  And I want to remind you that after the collapse of the Soviet Union, no one expelled Jews from Russia by force, it was their voluntary decision to leave Russia and go to their historical homeland

                  Well, yes, do you have a problem with this? I definitely don't
                  Quote: Sid.74
                  It is extremely unpleasant for us to listen to some of your "fellow tribesmen" who pour out vomit in all the media how can you not become an anti-Semite!

                  There is not a small number of Russians - I don’t like to listen to the same ones - do you have any personal complaints about this?
                  Quote: Sid.74
                  how can one not become an anti-Semite!

                  Yes, you and they were
                  1. +2
                    15 February 2014 18: 30
                    Quote: atalef
                    Yes, you and they were

                    That you are in vain! Another would compare with Hitler stop I do not belong to you with such aggression, and if the evil one slips, then the merit is also yours!
                    Quote: atalef
                    Do we have a policy? Trade - yes, that's when the Russian Federation will cease to supply weapons to our enemies - then maybe there will be a policy

                    Tie already, if Russia really supplied weapons, then Israel would have to be much worse! You understand that perfectly!
                    And so it turns out that here on the forum you have Russia on the head, and sometimes frankly rejoice in the failures and problems of Russia! And then what do you blame us for!
                    I want to remind you that Israel and the CU will sign an agreement on trade this year! You are with us in the WTO and you can trade so well! But no, you want a separate agreement with the CU! Is it not an attempt to grease and make a good happy bad game!
                    Quote: atalef
                    In general, with SA diplomatic relations with you and various princes go to you, here they are somehow not seen. And about the allies - they are all looking for - the Russian Federation is no exception. That kind of Venezuela why the heck RF? And they say an ally

                    Venezuela as it is !!! You that our business is common and mutually beneficial, well, and active anti-Western
                    policy! This is in the appendage! wink
                    Regarding the prince, it is necessary to understand that it is a politeness, though terribly disgusting! Politics are generally repulsive stuff! You are obviously sly here that there are no relations at the level of special services between the CA and you!
                    Quote: atalef
                    There is not a small number of Russians - I don’t like to listen to the same ones - do you have any personal complaints about this?

                    Etozh anyone Zhirinovsky? laughing Or Satanovsky or Leontyev can Solovyov or Venediktov and maybe Shenderovich! tongue
          4. 0
            15 February 2014 20: 38
            About double standards, Prohvessor, forgot to say! laughing
            Hold the thief, the thief shouts. hi
      2. +7
        15 February 2014 14: 23
        Oleg, if Iskander is such a bad car, why did the late Ariel Sharon objected so strongly to selling it to Syria?
        Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has asked the Russian leadership to abandon plans to sell Russian Iskander-E (SS-26) missiles to Syria. "He sent a message explaining that such a sale endangers Israel and that these missiles could fall into the hands of the Lebanese Hezbollah and other terrorist organizations in Damascus," a senior office official told AFP on Thursday. Prime Minister of Israel.

        http://www.newsru.com/world/13jan2005/sharon.html


        now, as for the "Cornets" in Lebanon, they were delivered in the 90s, a total of 100 launchers and 1000 missiles were delivered. And how Syria disposed of its property is already its problem.
        Russia does not blame Israel for delivering weapons to Georgia before the 2008 war, for example, the SPYDER SR (6 launchers), and this battery took part in the 2008 South Ossetian war. According to some information, the SPYDER SR SAM shot down a Su-24.
        The combat use of the SPYDER-SR complex took place in 2008. during the Georgian-South Ossetian conflict. 9 August 2008 in 10: 20 air defense of Georgia, with the help of Spyder-SR air defense systems, the Russian front-line bomber Su-24M was shot down from the 929 State Flight Test Center (Akhtubinsk airfield). He flew as part of a group of three bombers with the task of suppressing Georgian artillery in the area of ​​the village of Shindisi (between Gori and Tskhinvali). After the first approach on the plane, two unsuccessful launches of the Python-4 missiles were made, but he was hit by a third missile. The hit caused a fire and the crew ejected, but the dome of the parachute of the navigator Colonel Igor Rzhavitin was damaged by the wreckage of the aircraft, as a result of which he died.

        http://rbase.new-factoria.ru/missile/wobb/spyder/spyder.shtml

        There is evidence that the SPYDER SR launcher was captured by our troops.
        ... the detectives captured five Osa air defense systems, two launchers and a Buk-M1 air defense missile defense system each, and one Spider air defense system.

        http://nvo.ng.ru/wars/2010-01-15/1_kavkaz.html



        allegedly photographs of the captured Georgian SPYDER SR air defense system
        1. +2
          15 February 2014 15: 32
          Quote: Novel 1977
          Oleg, if Iskander is such a bad car, why did the late Ariel Sharon objected so strongly to selling it to Syria?

          Here you have the answer: these missiles may fall into the hands of the Lebanese Hezbollah and other terrorist organizations

          Quote: Novel 1977
          And as Syria disposed of her property, this is her problem.

          You're not right. This is a problem for Russia, so Putin promised to "follow up" so that this does not happen again.

          Quote: Novel 1977
          Russia does not blame Israel for delivering weapons to Georgia before the 2008 war, for example, the SPYDER SR (6 launchers), and this battery took part in the 2008 South Ossetian war. According to some information, the SPYDER SR SAM shot down a Su-24.

          Georgia is a sovereign country and the supply of arms to it is not limited by anyone. I would have looked at the reaction of Russia if Spikes and Spiders were "forgotten" by the Georgians and fell into the hands of the Chechen militants, who would use them against the Russian army and Russian citizens.
          1. +4
            15 February 2014 15: 52
            Quote: professor
            Here you have the answer: these missiles may fall into the hands of the Lebanese group Hezbollah and other terrorist organizations
            Therefore, Russia did not supply Iskander to Syria, and if Iranian missiles fly at you from Lebanon, although according to the latest information it may also be Smerch (I hope I am wrong).
            Quote: professor
            You're not right. This is a problem for Russia, so Putin promised to "follow up" so that this does not happen again.

            I do not know what Putin promised to trace there, nevertheless, this is not a problem for Russia. If you sell your car to a certain citizen, and he handed it to a drunken asshole. who knocked to death a person, then this is not your problem, but the problems of that citizen and that drunk asshole.
            Quote: professor
            Georgia is a sovereign country and the supply of arms to it is not limited by anyone. I would have looked at the reaction of Russia if Spikes and Spiders were "forgotten" by the Georgians and fell into the hands of the Chechen militants, who would use them against the Russian army and Russian citizens.
            Isn't Syria a sovereign country and the supply of arms to it in the 90s, when the Cornets were supplied to it, were also not limited by anything. So. that Russia could supply at least the Kornet, the Iskander, or the Topol without a special warhead, of course. Now, as for the Nokhchi, they left the armament of 42 training units in the leadership. MSD, so they did not particularly need weapons, nevertheless, they did not disdain the like ...


            And the Georgians regularly threw weapons through the Panki Gorge.
            1. 0
              15 February 2014 16: 11
              Quote: Novel 1977
              Therefore, Russia did not supply Iskander to Syria, and if Iranian missiles fly at you from Lebanon, although according to the latest information it may also be Smerch (I hope I am wrong).

              You are not mistaken. They have about 170 different missiles.

              Quote: Novel 1977
              I do not know what Putin promised to trace there, nevertheless, this is not a problem for Russia. If you sell your car to a certain citizen, and he handed it to a drunken asshole. who knocked to death a person, then this is not your problem, but the problems of that citizen and that drunk asshole.

              The example is not correct. In the supply of weapons, both the seller and the buyer assume obligations.

              Quote: Novel 1977
              Is Syria not a sovereign country

              There is no question about Syria. These weapons went straight through Damascus to the terrorists.

              Quote: Novel 1977
              And the Georgians regularly threw weapons through the Panki Gorge.

              The terrorists did not notice Israeli weapons.
              1. +6
                15 February 2014 16: 36
                Quote: professor
                You are not mistaken. They have about 170 different missiles.
                With all my heart I hope that Hel ha'Avir and Sayeret Matkal will shorten it ...
                Quote: professor
                The example is not correct. In the supply of weapons, both the seller and the buyer assume obligations.
                Okay, I legally sell a registered pistol to another citizen, he hands it over to a felon, he shoots someone ... Any questions for me? The same Americans armed dushmans at one time, while part of the "Stingers" ended up in Iran, and part of the supplied weapons are used against the Americans themselves. By the way, not only the Cornets flew into the Merkavas, but also the Iranian versions of the Tou and Dragons, which the United States once delivered to the Iranian Shah; nevertheless, Israel has no claims to the United States.

                Israel can also be indirectly blamed for Hezbollah's armament, since after the withdrawal of Israeli troops from Lebanon in 2000, part of the weapons of the SLA armed by Israel ended up in Hezbollah: several self-propelled 160-mm Makmat mortars (160-mm mortar " Soltam "Israeli production on the chassis of the" Sherman "tank), cars, small arms and other trophies.

                no need to say that this is not "Merkava", I know very well about it, this model is built on the basis of the tank "Tiran-5" (nee T-55) AUL
                Quote: professor
                There is no question about Syria. These weapons went straight through Damascus to the terrorists.
                ... Show me the agreement on the supply of weapons between Russia and Hezbollah ... How Syria disposes of the legally supplied weapons Syria's internal affair.
                Quote: professor
                The terrorists did not notice Israeli weapons.
                . Thank God! Nonetheless...

                The left-gun submachine gun does not resemble anything ... laughing
                1. -2
                  15 February 2014 17: 58
                  Quote: Novel 1977
                  How Syria controls the lawfully delivered weapons of Syria’s internal business.

                  You are wrong. Reread Putin's speech where he mentions the "end user"

                  Quote: Novel 1977
                  The left-gun submachine gun does not resemble anything ...

                  Is it really made in Israel? Or maybe in China? wink
                  1. The comment was deleted.
                  2. +3
                    15 February 2014 18: 31
                    Quote: professor
                    You are wrong. Reread Putin's speech where he mentions the "end user"

                    Putin can say whatever he wants to calm your Israeli, European and American politicians, his job is like that. Check and control the use of weapons supplied to Syria, incl. "Cornets" Putin is not capable of. Will the United States be able to control the use of Israel supplied F-15 and F-16 fighters? Just look at the deeds. As much as Putin did to preserve the power of Assad the son, was not always done under the USSR. Diplomatic support: the threat of a "veto" in the UN Security Council. Arms deliveries via the "Syrian Express", the same "Pantsir", "Yakhonts", and now, as it turned out, "Tornado", and how many more will emerge ... Military: the most powerful navy squadron in Mediterranean. And you think that all this is due to the PMTO in Tartus? I personally doubt it very much. Gaddafi was not so protected.
                    Quote: professor
                    Is it really made in Israel? Or maybe in China?

                    Or maybe in Iran? laughing

                    1. 0
                      15 February 2014 18: 34
                      Quote: Novel 1977
                      As much as Putin did to keep Assad’s son in power

                      And did this help Assad?
                      1. +3
                        15 February 2014 19: 01
                        Does it help yet? At least, while the Basmachi is not supported from the air by American and other aircraft, and Assad’s son was not taken out as a Gaddafi from the drainage ditch. (Israelis do not count, they stick to their goals and bomb only them).
                        Even the "no-fly zone" has not been declared, and the Syrian equipment has not turned into a heap of scrap metal due to the lack of spare parts.



                        And besides, after Camp David there is peace on the Egyptian-Israeli border, well, of course there are no underground passages to Gaza, where and from where they drag everything that is possible according to the old Arabian habit, incl. and weapons, well, sometimes the militants spoil, but nothing like 1948, 1956, 1967 and 1973 is not present and pah-pah-pah is not expected yet. I think that Assad the son would eventually come to the same state of affairs in the Golan. And those who will replace him are fanatics and their idea is only one: "Assad first, and then Israel." Now the Americans support the "correct" (as if there are correct) Basmachi, supplying them with weapons. The Palestinians are also fighting on their side. So, at such a pace, somewhere in Gaza, a Javelin may well fly to the Merkava tower! And that Israel will make claims against the United States?
                      2. 0
                        15 February 2014 20: 33
                        Quote: Novel 1977
                        Even the "no-fly zone" has not been declared, and the Syrian equipment has not turned into a heap of scrap metal due to the lack of spare parts.

                        The way Assad fights is like a desperate attempt to just bang someone.



                        Quote: Novel 1977
                        I think that Assad the son would eventually come to the same state of affairs in the Golan.

                        He was offered, he refused, the train left forever.

                        Quote: Novel 1977
                        And what will Israel claim against the United States?

                        Israel has repeatedly presented the United States, sometimes helping, sometimes not.
                      3. +2
                        15 February 2014 22: 53
                        Quote: professor
                        The way Assad fights is like a desperate attempt to just bang someone.
                        The Syrian army fights as best it can, and they are not opposed by children at all, Islamists from all over the world, incl. and our unfinished militants. And while the Syrian army and Hezbollah are shooting these animals, otherwise they would have been sitting in Gaza or on the Israeli border and doing various dirty tricks on the Israelis.



                        Quote: professor
                        He was offered, he refused, the train left forever.

                        Therefore, Israel decided to get uncontrollable territory on its eastern borders with a crowd of Islamists of all stripes who would regularly make sorties to Israel, being distracted only by disassembly among themselves. Assad son is at least predictable, like his dad, after bashing in Lebanon in 1982, he sat quietly like a mouse behind a broom, preferring to fight with other hands.
                        Quote: professor
                        Israel has repeatedly presented the United States, sometimes helping, sometimes not.
                        Avot from this place in more detail. Where? When? For what? Why dont know?
                      4. 0
                        15 February 2014 23: 02
                        Quote: Novel 1977
                        The Syrian army fights as best they can, and it is not the children who resist them, the Islamists from all over the world, including and our unfinished fighters.

                        To upload photos of what the rebels are armed with or is it not a day of humor today?

                        Quote: Novel 1977
                        Therefore, Israel decided to get uncontrollable territory on its eastern borders ...

                        Israel decided not to intervene. And for me, Assad had to be hung by the balls, at least for that.


                        Quote: Novel 1977
                        Avot from this place in more detail. Where? When? For what? Why dont know?

                        Well, they didn’t inform you, we’ll fix it. feel At least for the supply of needles to the Saudis.
                      5. +4
                        15 February 2014 23: 57
                        Quote: professor
                        To upload photos of what the rebels are armed with or is it not a day of humor today?

                        I understand that you mean slingshots and self-made guns? so besides them there is a bunch of quite modern weapons:


                        Here's an example of the “Yarmouk Martyrs” brigade: T-55AMB, BMP, BREM, a lot of artillery on new trucks.
                        But Syria did not buy Yugoslav weapons at all, where did the Basmachi come from?

                        And all these self-made guns, "slingshots", shushpanzers, were created to demonstrate to the media "the disarmament of the freedom-loving Syrian people, striving for democracy and fighting the bloody dictatorship of Assad." bully
                      6. +1
                        16 February 2014 00: 12
                        Quote: professor
                        Israel decided not to intervene. And for me, Assad had to be hung by the balls, at least for that.
                        Therefore, it regularly strikes at Syrian targets and makes similar statements ...
                        The Israeli authorities for the first time admitted that they would welcome the removal from power of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad. This was stated in an interview with The Jerusalem Post by the Ambassador of Israel to the United States, Michael Oren.
                        According to the diplomat, the victory of the rebels (even including al-Qaeda militants) would be a lesser evil than preserving the current Syrian-Iranian alliance. “From the very beginning, we said that Bashar al-Assad should leave. Better bad guys without ties with Iran than with them, ”said the ambassador
                        .
                        http://lenta.ru/news/2013/09/17/shift/
                        The late Yasser Arafat was also considered a terrorist, however, this did not prevent the late Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin from shaking his hand and negotiating peace.

                        Quote: professor
                        Well, they didn’t inform you, we’ll fix it. At least for the supply of needles to the Saudis.

                        Don't tell me the wrong person. And how it prevented the United States from supplying the main sponsor of Islamic terrorism, Saudi Arabia, with which Israel is still at war, 83 Boeing F-15C Eagle and 70 Boeing F-15S Strike Eagle. After all, Russia can be forced not to supply the Iskander OTR to the secular government of Assad or the defensive S-300 air defense systems to Iran.
                      7. +3
                        15 February 2014 23: 00
                        Quote: professor
                        The way Assad fights is like a desperate attempt to just bang someone.

                        as well as the Israeli army, air force, during the operation in Gaza "Cast lead" (((
                        in all used chemical .. weapons phosphorus bombs (((
                        and this is generally prohibited by international conventions banning the use of chemical weapons .. ((((
                        but prof .... will answer that Israel did not sign anything >>> and bribes are smooth (((
                      8. +1
                        16 February 2014 00: 18
                        Quote: cosmos111
                        as well as the Israeli army, air force, during the operation in Gaza "Cast lead" (((
                        they used chemical .. weapons phosphorus bombs

                        Do not run into Israel, with phosphorus. It is kosher and applied, for the glory smile shit democracy ...
                      9. +2
                        16 February 2014 01: 51
                        Quote: Russ69
                        It is kosher and applied, in glory

                        they have everything kosher that against israeli enemies bully (((
                        DIME is a new type of ammunition (((
                        developed in the USA and there, passed the stage of testing (((
                        ammunition, has a shell of carbon fiber and contains explosives containing up to 85% tungsten powders (((
                        in the explosion of DIME, tungsten particles (a metal capable of conducting very high temperatures) causing large-scale burns ((
                        shrapnel is found, which penetrates the body and leaves tiny holes, causing internal burns (((
                        DIME causes a very powerful explosion, but has a limited radius of damage, up to four meters (((
                        DIME is actively used against Palestinians (((
                        usually strikes are from UAVs (((
                      10. +1
                        15 February 2014 20: 50
                        Н hi em. He will say that it was MANPADS, or RPG POSSIBLE, of Russian production. Jews will always find excuse! But they forget that truth is truth! She is not yours and not mine. It's just the truth!
                      11. The comment was deleted.
                      12. -2
                        15 February 2014 20: 26
                        Of course.
                  3. The comment was deleted.
                2. 0
                  15 February 2014 20: 45
                  Nicely dug proHvessora !! good hi
              2. The comment was deleted.
            2. -1
              15 February 2014 17: 04
              Quote: Novel 1977
              I do not know what Putin promised to trace there, nevertheless, this is not a problem for Russia. If you sell your car to a certain citizen, and he handed it to a drunken asshole. who knocked to death a person, then this is not your problem, but the problems of that citizen and that drunk asshole.

              You are completely off topic, the concept * End-user certificate * applies with weapons - it prohibits re-export or transfer of weapons without the permission of the importer
              1. 0
                15 February 2014 20: 52
                Yeah! Go ask the Mujahideen about re-export! They don’t even know such a word! hi
          2. The comment was deleted.
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. +2
        15 February 2014 15: 38
        Probably because the war between Israel and Lebanon did not start Lebanon.
        The rhetorical answer.
        1. -1
          15 February 2014 17: 27
          Quote: andrey682006
          Probably because the war between Israel and Lebanon did not start Lebanon.
          The rhetorical answer.

          First of all, what is the 1st or 2nd.? Afterwards look for the prerequisites of war - then we'll talk. And then, as a little child, we’ll blur something, but what is not clear. laughing
          1. +2
            15 February 2014 17: 47
            Yes, both Jews began.
            Discovered a secret anti-Semitic plot.
            They created a controlled terrorist organization for provocation.
            Spent this provocation. And they accused Lebanon.
            And now with the links as you like, prove what was wrong. wassat
            And then I’ll say about you like this:
            And then, as a little child, we’ll blur something, but what is not clear. laughing
        2. -2
          15 February 2014 17: 59
          Quote: andrey682006
          Probably because the war between Israel and Lebanon did not start Lebanon.

          It was the Martians who attacked Israel from Lebanon, and that insidious fucked in Lebanon.
          1. 0
            15 February 2014 20: 06
            So you confirm, there are already two of us! laughing
    2. +2
      15 February 2014 14: 54
      Here you are hinting that "relatives from overseas" are helping the Israelis, ie. to American Jews you give a reason to accuse you of anti-Semitism - for the assertion - that Jews can put the interests of Israel and Jews above the interests of the country of residence - is one of the working definitions of anti-Semitism, like denial of the Holocaust, etc. etc.
      http://www.snob.ru/profile/8777/blog/34592
      1. -1
        15 February 2014 20: 40
        Quote: mirag2
        Here you are hinting that "relatives from overseas" are helping the Israelis, ie. to American Jews you give a reason to accuse you of anti-Semitism - for the assertion - that Jews can put the interests of Israel and Jews above the interests of the country of residence - is one of the working definitions of anti-Semitism, like denial of the Holocaust, etc. etc.
        http://www.snob.ru/profile/8777/blog/34592

        In general, in Israel there are much more Russian Jews than American Jews
        1. 0
          15 February 2014 20: 56
          And what, I ask you ?!
          What's the difference?
          For - where he was born - there he came in handy! And this is a Russian proverb. But who said that it does not concern the Jews ?! hi
  17. Docklishin
    +6
    15 February 2014 14: 12
    Something I can not understand Comrade professors ... that’s how much I read, I read his comments, and everything is in doubt. And masterfully under the notes of sarcasm. By the way, not everyone has been given the same thing ... But here's what I want to note - lately they have already gotten to belittle, obsess ... everything that relates to our achievements. Starting from sports to the military-industrial complex. And when a person constantly says that everything is bad and not quite smart ... and do it with a mentor tone, then the person involuntarily starts to doubt his legal capacity .... I want to end my opus as follows - ANY even a small achievement of our Motherland It should be built on a cosmic scale and broadcast on all TV channels, so that the people finally begin to be proud of what they have. But we have actually quite a lot. Who does not agree - let him go through the forest. Z.Y. as far as I know, the combat use of strategic nuclear forces was not carried out, BUT we have been living since 1945 without a global conflict. pah pah pah. Conclusion number 1 - we can answer. Conclusion number 2 - the one who knows how to calculate and analyze has long understood this. Respectfully tof prof.
    1. +1
      15 February 2014 15: 36
      Quote: DocKlishin
      Something I can not understand Comrade professors ... that’s how much I read, I read his comments, and everything is in doubt. And masterfully under the notes of sarcasm. By the way, not everyone has been given the same thing ... But what I want to note is that in recent times they have already gotten to belittle, obsess ... everything that relates to our achievements.

      Russia is a great country with a great history and great people. She has something to be proud of. And so screams about having no analogs in the world look especially ridiculous.

      Quote: DocKlishin
      ANY even a small achievement of our Motherland should be erected on a cosmic scale and broadcast on all TV channels so that the people would finally begin to be proud of what they have.

      ... and who will scream that the king is naked?
      1. -2
        15 February 2014 17: 10
        Quote: professor
        And so screams about having no analogs in the world look especially ridiculous.

        I agree! They just look not funny, but stupid! hi
        1. Docklishin
          0
          16 February 2014 02: 51
          Who designed and created unique ships - Spiral, Buran, Baikal ... Who was the founder of masers, laser systems ... who had the best healthcare and education system in the world ... and finally who won the most bloody war in the history of mankind, saved and didn’t wipe a good half of Europe from their face and dignity - although they had full moral right. Who in the 80s was on par with the United States for the development of the electronics industry. So - it was all WE. And part of this inheritance remains with us. So this is not funny and not stupid. There would be a will. Ulta - minus one.
      2. Docklishin
        0
        16 February 2014 02: 43
        The "king" is not naked, but just weak and sick for now. Everybody tried, the whole progressive Western world. Personally, I have many complaints about what they did in the 90s. Complete devastation and poverty. Such a country has missed ... Some kind of nonsense ... Because there is - and so we are proud. And there are good examples of weapons that are on a par with world counterparts. And this is what we need to talk about. For example, how many countries were able to design a 5th generation fighter - so far 3. Nuclear submarines - only 2. Develop their own MBT - about 5, launch and master space independently - 2-3, whose developments formed the basis for the F-35 - Yak 141. Who was the founder of stealth theory is Peter Ufimtsev. Who developed and first built the prototype of the hadron collider - 80 years Protvino and Dubna. Who first swung at fusion reactors, who designed ionic installations, who created the best rocket engines ...
        1. 0
          16 February 2014 02: 56
          Quote: DocKlishin
          For example, how many countries were able to design an 5 generation fighter - while 3

          False - only 1 country, the rest have not yet crossed the finish line.

          Quote: DocKlishin
          NPS - 2 only

          False - 6 countries.
          Russia
          USA
          United Kingdom
          France
          China
          India

          Quote: DocKlishin
          Develop your own MBT - about 5

          False - 17 countries.

          Quote: DocKlishin
          launch and explore space yourself - 2-3

          False - 16 countries.
          1. Docklishin
            +1
            16 February 2014 03: 08
            Fighter - only 2 technologies. The finish line would have crossed the year that way in the 90th. However ... everyone knows how it ended. A submarine like Los Angeles, Siaulf, Borei - I don’t know, I don’t know. I always believed that the USA and Russia possess the complete superiority of this topic. China is not. India - no reinforced concrete. France and England - perhaps I agree with you. MBT - its schools in Russia, Germany, USA, England, France, Israel. China is far without it, but in this country, as in Pakistan, India and others, it is more likely copying and improvement, rather than development. + lack of history in the design and engineering.
            1. -1
              17 February 2014 01: 56
              Quote: DocKlishin
              I always believed that the USA and Russia possess the complete superiority of this topic. China is not. India - no reinforced concrete.

              In 1963, the first British atomic atom HMS Dreadnought (S101) was commissioned.
              In 1969, the first French nuclear submarine Le Redoutable (S 611) began to perform military service.
              In 1974, China commissioned its first nuclear submarine.
              Indian Submarine INS Arihant, launched on 26 July 2009 year, became part of the Indian Navy by 2012 year. Thus, India became the sixth nuclear power possessing nuclear submarines. The lead ship of the project was launched, two more are under construction, in total it is planned to build five submarines of this project.

              NPS INS Arihant - launching ceremony.
    2. -1
      15 February 2014 20: 58
      So the Jews are alive !!! This is their mentality! And you and I drinks hi Yesterday, in their opinion, they left the taiga !!!
  18. +10
    15 February 2014 14: 27
    The article is not very. To begin with, Iskander, that is, Alexander Filippovich of Macedon, was, of course, a great warrior, but certainly he was not a defender, but rather an attacker.
    Neither LTX missiles nor warhead types are indicated in the article. In principle, all this is on the site
    http://rbase.new-factoria.ru/missile/wobb/iscander/iscander.shtml
    Information and News System
    Rocket technology
    Operational and tactical missile system 9K720 Iskander
    Here the complex is described sensibly and without excess water.
    Perhaps if Adon Professor had read this article, then his skepticism would have diminished.
    1. 0
      15 February 2014 15: 40
      Quote: sivuch
      Perhaps if Adon Professor had read this article, then his skepticism would have diminished.

      I got acquainted. The sarcasm did not diminish - he never became a "great warrior" who did not participate in hostilities.
      1. +4
        15 February 2014 16: 06
        Non-participation in hostilities reduces the characteristics of the complex? belay
        Those. Merkava-4 - a good tank, she is fighting.
        It does not matter what drives the terrorists with machine guns and anti-tank systems, shooting them from afar. From the territory controlled by the infantry. And he does not crawl into the urban zone until stripping from the cornet.

        By the way, suppose Iskander fell into the hands of terrorists.
        The whole complex - PU, TZM, testing machine or only PU? Or just a rocket?
        If the whole complex, then a number of problems arise: Do training calculations have to go before combat work? Where? Who will teach? What training base? Where will the equipment be stored and maintained? How to hide it from the Israeli army? There are a lot of equipment:
        The complex includes six types of machines:
        Self-propelled launcher (SPU) (9P78, 9P78E) 4-6 to the division, 12-18 to the brigade.
        Transport-loading machine (TZM) (9T250 (9T250E)) 4-6 to the division, 12-18 to the brigade.
        Command and staff vehicle (KShM) (9С552) 2-3 per division, 6-9 per brigade.
        Machine regulation and maintenance (MRTO) x / z IMHO 1 per division
        Information preparation point (ППИ) (9С920, КАМАЗ-43101) Х / З IMHO 1 per division
        Life support machine (MZHO) x / z
        Arsenal equipment kit and training equipment

        Total - 10-12 cars at least IMHO. This is not a "Cornet" hide.

        If only PU - then for one start? laughing By the way, whose calculation, who will cook it?
        And if a rocket - how will they carry and launch a 3800kg rocket? How will guidance do?
        1. +1
          15 February 2014 16: 20
          Quote: andrey682006
          By the way, suppose Iskander fell into the hands of terrorists.
          The whole complex - PU, TZM, testing machine or only PU? Or just a rocket?
          If the whole complex, then a number of problems arise: Do training calculations have to go before combat work? Where? Who will teach? What training base? Where will the equipment be stored and maintained? How to hide it from the Israeli army?

          In your view, terrorists are a stoned suicide bomber in the subway. Iskander can be served by regular military personnel, and a "freedom fighter" will press the button. We have already gone through this.
          1. +3
            15 February 2014 16: 41
            What and where did you go? Are you personally or Israel in general? On behalf of whom are you talking here?
            Cadre military can (and should) serve any missile system. And then they (12 cars) discreetly (in a suitcase or in a sleeve, and even cooler - in Merlin's bag from the cartoon) will transport him across several borders. Prepare it for launch, enter data on the target and invite the "freedom fighter" to press a button. So do you understand the process of using the Iskander RK in Lebanon?

            Think, isn’t it easier to launch a rocket with a range of 300 km from the territory of a neighboring state? One hell - the Russians will be to blame! fellow

            Where is the logic, why is it not, and is there only propaganda in the presence?
      2. +4
        15 February 2014 16: 17
        Mar professor, could you translate into Russian what you wanted to say -What Iskander (rocket, not Alexander) -Great warrior who did not participate in the database, or vice versa, that this is a small warrior who participated in the battles?
        And what does it take for him to become just a great warrior - so that one such nonsense withers in the region of Kiriya? So I am against
        1. 0
          15 February 2014 16: 25
          Quote: sivuch
          And what does it take for him to become just a great warrior - so that one such nonsense withers in the region of Kiriya? So I am against

          So dozens of missiles from warheads fell twice as powerful. The result is one dead. Proportions, however, should not be lost.
          By the way, the "rocketman" was pulled up.
          1. +4
            15 February 2014 16: 43
            Is warhead twice as powerful as Iskander?
            460 * 2 = 920kg
            Almost a ton?
            Who and when launched such a warhead in Israel? With the exception of Iran with SCADAS?
            1. -1
              15 February 2014 18: 02
              Quote: andrey682006
              Who and when launched such a warhead in Israel?

              In your opinion, the Jews themselves launched it.
              1. 0
                15 February 2014 20: 09
                Did you read my mind? belay
                Horror! wassat
          2. 0
            15 February 2014 20: 37
            Firstly, not in 2. Saddamych had to cut the warhead to increase the range.
            So these are the same half tons. Only if the ancient Skuds had only a high-explosive warhead with no accuracy (and then all of Israel was in mamadh), then Iskander there are a lot of them different. You claimed that you read the article from Rbaza, but for some reason you write like this , as if a missile has only a high-explosive warhead, and there are, meanwhile, of the 7 types of warheads, 4 are cassette warriors, including self-aiming elements.
            As for preportions, from a quarter to a third of coalition aviation they only did what they were looking for, and the Scuds in the desert were not very successful. A very good result. And if we recall the barracks with marines ..
            1. +1
              15 February 2014 21: 08
              Quote: sivuch
              Firstly, not in 2. Saddamych had to cut the warhead to increase the range.

              I cut back on some, some didn’t have any explosives at all, and some howled fully armed.

              Quote: sivuch
              You claimed that you had read an article from Rbaza, but for some reason you are writing as if the rocket has only a high-explosive warhead, and there are four types of warheads, including self-aiming elements, out of 7 types of warheads.

              The key word there is "may". Scuds, too, "could" be equipped with warheads with OV, and therefore sat in gas masks.

              Quote: sivuch
              As for preportions, from a quarter to a third of coalition aviation they did what they were looking for, and the Scuds in the desert were not very successful.

              Searched for WMD. We do not consider Iskander carrying WMD.
              1. Docklishin
                0
                16 February 2014 02: 29
                Well, that's just the option with the usual warhead and not considered. Or do you think that Comrade Americans deploy a third positional defense ring solely to protect threats from Iran ... This is a violation of parity in nuclear deterrence forces. As for the debate on the theme of Israel, Lebanon, Iran and other countries of the Middle East, in this context, each country has the right to choose its own path and strategy for ensuring national security. For which I deeply and respect the Jewish state - they do not surrender their own. and in the government, as in our 90s, traitors do not sit. Well, okay ... otherwise it has already gone to the wrong steppe
              2. 0
                18 February 2014 14: 57
                I cut back on some, some didn’t have explosives at all, and some howled fully armed.

                Fully armed - this warhead in 1t weight. In order for it to reach Israel, it was necessary either to build another missile (at a different range), or to reduce the payload weight.
            2. 0
              15 February 2014 21: 08
              Quietly! He served in the army? It's ..... Well !!! All told Amer. And if our secretaries are for disclosing you ... ??? (Joke) belay drinks hi
      3. +1
        15 February 2014 20: 51
        Quote: professor
        I got acquainted. The sarcasm did not diminish - he never became a "great warrior" who did not participate in hostilities.

        And God forbid not to participate. It is enough that its presence cools hot heads ... We are not Americans and Jews, we do not arrange wars ...
    2. 0
      15 February 2014 18: 46
      Quote: sivuch
      To begin with, Iskander, that is, Alexander Filippovich of Macedon, was, of course, a great warrior, but certainly he was not a defender, but rather an attacker.

      And Iskander is a purely offensive weapon; in defense it is not effective.
      To understand why, it is enough to understand the seeker used in the Iskander rocket. When approaching the target, an effective inertial navigation system (INS) is used, which brings the missile to the target, then, according to the previously loaded photograph, the target is guided, the target must be contrasting, i.e. stand out against the general background (bridge, runway, buildings, etc. options). To put it simply, the optical seeker should "recognize" the target against the surrounding background. To do this, you first need to get a photo of the target, "load its image into the rocket" and launch. The source of the target's photograph is reconnaissance aircraft and space satellites. As you understand all this is not online, it can take a lot of time to get a photo, so the moving target will move anywhere during this time.
      When attacking an "enemy", the owner of Iskander, even in peacetime, can in various ways establish the location of all "interesting" objects in the depths of the enemy's defense, get their photos from space or from somewhere else. Those. all targets for Iskander are ready in advance at the command and "lie in the daddy"; when attacking, they are hit as they move into enemy territory.
      When repelling an attack, the enemy maneuvers on their own, the troops are withdrawn from bases, supply points, headquarters are mobile and follow the troops regularly changing their position using camouflage means. Of course, there is intelligence to reveal their whereabouts, but reconnaissance aircraft are far from always able to get a photo of the desired object, because enemy aircraft and ground-based air defense systems are guarding the sky. There are few satellites, far from always they can be above the required square, far from always, a clear sky can be above it.
      Those. when repulsing the attack, Iskander will not be able to realize all of its capabilities for the most part.
      1. +3
        15 February 2014 20: 22
        First strike weapon?
        You described the concept of using only one warhead. On an aeroballistic rocket. And they concluded that the whole complex was used. Although even today there is still a cruise missile, a high-explosive, cluster (with different military elements), nuclear warheads.
        IMHO, this is not true.
        Even the article cites two existing and three developing missiles. Nobody writes about combat units. Think because there is nothing? Missiles - are there, but warheads for them - no?
        GLONASS, the development of UAV programs, AWACS - you do not take into account any of this.
        I accept in advance the objection that they are not there yet or they are only being created. But Iskander still has a long time to serve. They will.
      2. 0
        15 February 2014 21: 14
        This is all in theory, that is, what is desired, but in reality it is hi there are special groups, online, and in the noise immunity system transmitting the picture .. (Think yourself, where)
      3. 0
        18 February 2014 15: 03
        Read at your leisure
        In addition to missiles with an inertial control system, missiles with a seeker of two types can also be used, which are used at the final stage of the flight (according to our assessment, they are not in service as of 2009, they are probably being tested since 2004 or later). The seeker in the final section of the trajectory corrects the operation of the inertial control system of the missile (estimated, it cannot be used on Iskander-E):

        - radar correlation GOS - developed by TsNIIAG (Moscow) in the late 1980s on the Volga theme, the missile is guided by comparing the digital terrain map in the target area and the GOS radar data;

        - optical correlation GOS 9E436 - developed by TsNIIAG (Moscow), the missile is guided by the reference image of the target, similar to the GOS missile 8K14-1F. GOS was first presented at Eurosatory-2004.
        - radar active GOS 9B918 - developed and produced by NPP "Radar MMS" as of 2009. In 2009, it is planned to serial production of 22 blocks for processing primary information for GOS 9B918 missiles 9M723-1F in 2010-2011.

        The Iskander-K missiles have a control system, probably based on the principle of trajectory correction by checking the digital terrain map in the correction areas with the data of the radio altimeter, or another.

        http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-185.html
    3. 0
      15 February 2014 21: 02
      To begin with, Iskander is just a name - Alexander. And that is not in Greek, but in Old Persian. hi
  19. +3
    15 February 2014 15: 53
    Quote: sivuch
    The article is not very. To begin with, Iskander, that is, Alexander Filippovich of Macedon, was, of course, a great warrior, but certainly he was not a defender, but rather an attacker.
    Neither LTX missiles nor warhead types are indicated in the article. In principle, all this is on the site
    http://rbase.new-factoria.ru/missile/wobb/iscander/iscander.shtml
    Information and News System
    Rocket technology
    Operational and tactical missile system 9K720 Iskander
    Here the complex is described sensibly and without excess water.
    Perhaps if Adon Professor had read this article, then his skepticism would have diminished.

    All that you know .. But if you bang from the Grad on the "iron dome"? How will the Iron Dome and Iron Rays react? Israel does not yet have an iron point of the system .. (as far as I know) And the grouping of the Russian Navy has come .. and we want to check the "Iron Dome" so what else do you have ... what the professor praised ..))
    1. 0
      15 February 2014 17: 44
      Quote: MIKHAN
      But if you bang from the Castle on the "iron dome"? How the Iron Dome will react

      In one gulp. fellow

      Quote: MIKHAN
      Israel has no iron point in the system yet .. (as far as I know)

      You know bad. There is a titanium, fivefold calcination. bully

      Quote: MIKHAN
      the grouping of the Russian Navy has come .. and we want to check the "Iron Dome" so what else do you have ... what the professor praised ..))

      Ahlan Wussahlan bully
      1. -1
        15 February 2014 21: 18
        Anasrat - have you ever melted or melted titanium, unlike me, to foolishly plump - five-fold calcination !!! ??? fool hi
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. -1
          16 February 2014 03: 05
          Quote: sscha
          ... have you ever melted or melted titanium, unlike me, to foolishly plump - five-fold calcination !!! ???

          It was a subtle intellectual sarcasm, to whom it was necessary - he understood, and to whom the sense of humor was amputated - my condolences lol
  20. +8
    15 February 2014 18: 12
    [quote = professor] "The Great Warrior" has not participated in any battle, but already a great one. Just like the Tsar cannon. fellow/ Quote]
    "Voivoda" also did not participate in any battle, but for some reason everyone is uncomfortable with the thought if she really took part.
  21. +1
    15 February 2014 19: 46

    The left-gun submachine gun does not resemble anything ... laughing[/ Quote]
    Does the singer remind anyone of anyone? ...
    1. +1
      16 February 2014 11: 42
      And who is sitting with a guitar?
  22. +2
    15 February 2014 19: 47
    Yes!!! Who doesn’t know, our am lost in hockey 3: 2. There are claims to the American and Swedish judges who did not defend our puck. am
  23. +2
    15 February 2014 20: 07
    Quote: professor
    Quote: igorspb
    Mr. Sokolov, maybe you know those who would like to try the power of the complex on themselves? Well, whose opinion will be decisive for you. Announce the list pliz .....

    At least Georgia. Where was this "great warrior" and what did he do on 8.8.8?

    It always starts like this: having no taxes in the world, a better world ... and then it appears: as a result of combat use it turned out ... request

    Well Georgia is from a cannon on sparrows. There was no point in brave Georgians shooting such a rocket ....
    1. +2
      15 February 2014 20: 49
      Quote: igorspb
      Well Georgia is from a cannon on sparrows. There was no point in brave Georgians shooting such a rocket ....

      Yeah, it made sense to bomb so "giftedly" by substituting pilots

      1. 0
        16 February 2014 00: 23
        Quote: professor
        Yeah, it made sense to bomb so "giftedly" by substituting pilots

        Bombed, already when the air defense ceased to exist. And it seemed to be enough for a couple of days.
  24. +1
    15 February 2014 20: 19
    Quote: professor
    Quote: Fofan
    prof, this is not pathos, here is "pathos". to your pathos and eternal contempt for everything Russian as before China on a lame mare.

    ............deleted by moderator Apollo do not roll bags. Give at least one example of my "contempt for everything Russian." And in response, silence ... wassat

    Do you show the language of all of Russia, is this contempt?
  25. +2
    15 February 2014 20: 36
    Also Iskander-E may be interesting to Iran

    Here the Jews will conquer if we deliver it to Iran laughing .
    1. -1
      16 February 2014 14: 24
      Quote: voliador
      Also Iskander-E may be interesting to Iran
      Here the Jews will conquer if we deliver it to Iran laughing .

      Launch Range Iskander-E 280km.
      Distance between Iran and Israel 1200 + km.
      Learn materiel for weapons and GEOGRAPHY shkolota! fool
      1. 0
        16 February 2014 15: 45
        First, not 280
        Secondly, in one picture you should be able to offend so many 0 nationalities. Don’t just say that it’s sarcasm
        1. +1
          16 February 2014 22: 31
          Quote: sivuch
          First, not 280
          Secondly, in one picture you should be able to offend so many 0 nationalities. Don’t just say that it’s sarcasm

          Firstly, 280 is what I found in open sources.
          Secondly, this is not sarcasm - it is a reflection of knowledge in the geography of an individual nicknamed volidator.
          Thirdly, if you do not understand the meaning - clarify, "they do not hit the nose for demand," but to act as a "fighter for the truth" based only on your subjective conclusions, and not knowing the background ... the proverb is good "hurry up - make people laugh " hi
  26. +7
    15 February 2014 20: 45
    Hi everyone! I understand that "Professor" staff member is an opponent!
    Well this is necessary, hang on the site, but not on one, and scribble, scribble, scribble. Damn Conan Doyle. We have a rocket, why argue? Come, God forbid you, then compare already specifically. And so I understand that you have nothing to do here and hang in the internet. It would be better to go to a bar and drink beer. drinks
  27. +5
    15 February 2014 23: 30
    In my Kolomna they are made)) Last year, the abandoned railway line to the landfill area was replaced with a new one, work is in full swing, production is expanding. The salary at KBM was raised, the crisis was over.
    So guys, we have something to answer the adversary!
  28. +2
    16 February 2014 00: 06
    Quote Sid. 74
    [quote] Saakashvili, under international law, had the authority to demand that the armed forces of another country leave the territory of his country (who are not mandated by the United Nations) and take methods to restore the integrity of the country [quote]

    Under international law, the state of Israel must leave the territory of Palestine and withdraw troops. The Jews do not want current; there is little land. How do you do this, you can talk about South Ossetia
  29. +3
    16 February 2014 00: 17
    Hmm, Jews, .. such Jews ....
  30. 7ydmco
    0
    16 February 2014 00: 30
    Quote: professor
    Question 1: how did Rosoboronexport deliver ATGMs to a terrorist organization?


    What hezbollah became a terrorist organization? Or a foreign monastery with its own charter? How new smile
    1. +1
      16 February 2014 10: 18
      Quote: 7ydmco
      What hezbollah became a terrorist organization?

      Teach materiel or poke your nose?



      1. antibanukurayza
        0
        17 February 2014 15: 46
        I hate these Zionist Jews. For Jews, a 6 year old boy is also a terrorist. Although he (the boy) does not destroy Jewish houses, he does not demolish the walls with bulldozers in the middle of the night, he does not take away the land. Was there a little Holocaust? Why are you following in the footsteps of those who most recently rotted your grandfathers and great-grandfathers (fascists)? If the Palestinians weren’t genocidal, people would be easier on you. And so - what is hi, such is the answer. Demolished the house - hold the rocket. He took the earth - hold the rocket. He arrested the student and starved to death - keep the bomb. He laid his eye on Al Aksu - hold it again, again and again ...
        I can’t wait to see the moment when the state of Israel disappears from the world map, and the Jews are brought into the golden gene pool of humanity, which is on the verge of extinction. The people, once formerly elected, but proud, betraying a covenant with God, creating wickedness on earth, for which he was destroyed by the Almighty. May the Lord accelerate this day!
  31. 7ydmco
    +1
    16 February 2014 00: 40
    Quote: duche
    Hi everyone! I understand that "Professor" staff member is an opponent!


    I think, rather, the Troll Russian nationalist, inciting hatred for a social group - the Jews smile
  32. 0
    16 February 2014 01: 04
    Quote: 7ydmco
    Quote: duche
    Hi everyone! I understand that "Professor" staff member is an opponent!


    I think, rather, the Troll Russian nationalist, inciting hatred for a social group - the Jews smile


    maybe an asocial Jew?))
    1. 7ydmco
      0
      16 February 2014 14: 15
      Quite possible )))
    2. The comment was deleted.
  33. 0
    16 February 2014 12: 07
    Relatively little is known about the Iskander cassette part. But the Point has been studied well and it has a warhead weight of the same 480 kg. Dmitry on his website laid out in detail both the technical characteristics of the known warhead variants and the required outfit for typical purposes
    http://military.tomsk.ru/blog/topic-191.html
    9K79 Point - SS-21 SCARAB
    The consumption of missiles of the Tochka complex is standard for engaging different types of targets:


    missile 9M79K / 9M79-1K - cluster warhead 9N123K includes 50 9N24 fragmentation submunitions weighing 7.45 kg each, explosive mass A-IX-20 - 1.45 kg (submunition body consists of 18 rings); a turnaround on the target, undermining the central charge and opening the warhead is initiated by the 9E326 radio sensor at an altitude of 2250 m. A training split training model of the warhead - 9N123K-RM; warhead case - 9N311. The warhead was developed and adopted by 1980 (USSR State Prize).
    TTX warhead:

    Warhead length - 2325 mm
    Warhead diameter - 650 mm
    Mass of warhead - 482 kg
    The number of fragments - 15800 pieces
    The number of fragments in one fragmentation element - 316 pieces
    The mass of the fragment is 7 grams
    Damage area - 3,5-7 ha
  34. +1
    16 February 2014 12: 28
    Nice complex! May God grant our Weaponsmiths to finalize and debug everything type-type !!!
    For Europe, Iskander, that the "pump of the bear" is far away THEY!))) And to destroy Poland ..., they got it in World War II ...)))
    But as a GIFT to our "Best cunning-eyed friends" in the Far East, nothing at all !!!
    Considering our 100 km demilitarized zone (I don’t want to swear at the dead),
    then 100-200 deployed Iskander divisions in the Far East - a GOOD response to WS-2 !!!
  35. bubnovitnik
    0
    16 February 2014 14: 19
    I don’t know how for anyone, but for me it’s some kind of messy, meaningless article! (I mean, actually, the very sequence of providing everything and everything).
  36. +1
    16 February 2014 14: 48
    Iskander's capabilities Thank God! Nobody has experienced it on our own skin and we (as people are purely peaceful!) do not advise anyone. But here's the trouble: "some" don't want to understand us, that's why we are posting, guys from NATO and everyone else, remember the statement of the cat Leopold.
  37. 0
    16 February 2014 15: 06
    Quote: professor
    So take advantage and find out where and how he was injured.

    ProfessorI will reveal a terrible secret. I make a living so that Google visitors driving the desired request, find the result that my customer wants))
    1. 0
      16 February 2014 15: 13
      Quote: yanus
      Professor, I will reveal a terrible secret. I make a living so that Google visitors driving the desired request, find the result that my customer wants))

      Happy for you. Nevertheless, what is wrong in my post about a journalist? Specifically pliz.
  38. +1
    16 February 2014 15: 10
    KBM Kolomenskoye has been familiar to me since the 80s, they were the developers of one of the systems on the nuclear submarine, where I served as the dispatcher from our post box. The office was clear, and the developers were strong. Nice to remember. And their "Iskander" is a good "bolt" for the "cunning Yankee nut" in Europe winked
    1. 0
      17 February 2014 17: 19
      It is a pity that the KBM survived the 90s with very large losses.
    2. 0
      17 February 2014 17: 19
      It is a pity that the KBM survived the 90s with very large losses.
  39. ken
    0
    6 March 2014 09: 52
    Our country has a third ally: ARMY, NAVY .. AND ISKANDER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  40. VICTOR-61
    0
    2 August 2014 19: 14
    Yes Iskander -super-inexperienced, the Poles screamed, they won’t help the American pro, they’ll cover them in 2 minutes, and if you supply a nuclear warhead, then there willn’t exist anymore — Poland’s most aggressive country after America - so if in case of war we have something to say thanks to the ISKANDER developers And we are waiting for more novelties in this area
  41. 0
    23 September 2014 20: 22
    Our pride! Our power!

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