Military Review

Ukraine will create an anti-aircraft missile and artillery complex for India

16
A few days ago, the exhibition of weapons and military equipment Defexpo-2014 ended in India. During this event, several agreements were signed for the supply of various military products. In addition, the exhibition resulted in contracts and memorandums of cooperation. So, Ukraine and India intend to create a new anti-aircraft missile and artillery complex (ASC) for the Indian armed forces.


According to the official website of the Ukrainian state concern "Ukroboronprom", representatives of the State Enterprise GHVP "Spetstechnoexport" (Ukraine) and the company Larsen & Toubro ltd. (India) signed a contract for the creation of ZRAK for participation in the tender of the Indian Ministry of Defense. The Indian Armed Forces intend to purchase 138 units of a promising anti-aircraft system, and the Ukrainian defense industry, together with the Indian one, are going to create such equipment and receive a major contract. According to the published data, the Indian company Larsen & Toubro ltd. will receive tender documents and will be able to take part in the competition. The Ukrainian side, in turn, undertakes to supply one combat and one command vehicle of a promising anti-aircraft complex.

On the Ukrainian side, several defense enterprises belonging to the Ukroboronprom concern will be involved in the work. So, the construction of the command vehicle of the new ZRAK will be dealt with by the Kharkov Automobile Plant. The combat vehicle of the complex should be manufactured by the State Space Design Bureau “Luch” (Kiev). The gun for the anti-aircraft complex should be presented by the Kiev design bureau Artillery Armament. Terms of construction of two cars new ZRAK have not been announced.

If the promising anti-aircraft missile and artillery complex, which will be created by Ukrainian specialists, is arranged by the Indian Ministry of Defense and is adopted, the cooperation of the two countries in the military-technical sphere will reach a new level. It is worth noting that in recent years, countries are constantly expanding their cooperation. During the recent exhibition Defexpo-2014, deputy general director of Ukroboronprom, M. Glushchenko, spoke about the dynamics of the development of cooperation between Ukraine and India. In 2012, the total volume of Ukrainian-Indian contracts for the supply of weapons and military equipment amounted to 120 million US dollars. The following year, 2013, the total volume of contracts amounted to 397,4 million.

Thus, a possible contract for the supply of 138 anti-aircraft missile and artillery systems will be the largest agreement between Ukraine and India for the supply of weapons or military equipment. For obvious reasons, it is too early to talk about the results of the tender of the Ministry of Defense of India or about the prospects for a new SURK of Ukrainian design. Now it is known only about the existing agreement between the enterprises of the two countries, and more detailed information is missing. Because of this, at the present time, one can only speculate and try to predict what the new PSRA will be for the Indian army.

Ukraine will create an anti-aircraft missile and artillery complex for India


It should be noted that Ukrainian defense enterprises have some experience in creating anti-aircraft systems. It is possible that in the new complex for India, some developments from previous projects will be used. For example, back in the late nineties, the Ukrainian defense industry introduced the Donetsk air defense system, which was a deep modernization of the ZSU-23-4 Shilka anti-aircraft gun. The Donets machine was a modernized Shilka tower mounted on a modified chassis of the main tank T-80UD. ZRAK Donets retained the old radar sight, but received a digital fire control system, navigation system and equipment for working with external target designation. In addition, the ammunition capacity of the guns was doubled. To increase the combat qualities on each side of the Donets tower, two transport and launch containers with missiles of the Strela-10M complex were installed.

CENT "Donets" was a variant of the deep modernization of ZSU "Shilka" with the extensive use of existing components and assemblies. For obvious reasons, such a development has a very limited potential and is unlikely to be able to interest potential buyers. For this reason, by the end of the last decade, Ukrainian specialists began to develop a new anti-aircraft missile and artillery complex "Centaur".

In terms of its architecture, the CENTER "Centaur" is similar to the "Donets" system, but it has a number of serious differences. As the basis for a new combat vehicle, an existing or advanced tank chassis was proposed. This chassis is supposed to install a tower with weapons and a complex of electronic equipment. In front of the tower, the Ukrainian designers placed two automatic guns of 40 caliber mm. According to some reports, 57-mm guns were proposed in the early stages of development, but in the end, smaller-caliber guns were chosen. On the sides of the turret of the machine "Centaur" should be placed lifting launchers with eight (four on board) transport and launch containers of anti-aircraft missiles. In the stowed position, the containers should be located inside the armored casing.



Possessing a radar and optical-location systems for target detection and weapon control, the Centaur SCRA could simultaneously attack two targets. The transported ammunition was to consist of 8 guided missiles and 200 high-explosive fragmentation and armor-piercing shells. According to reports, when using missiles, the Centaur complex will be able to hit targets at ranges up to 12 km and at altitudes up to 6 km. When attacking with artillery systems, the range of damage is reduced to 6 km, the maximum height to 4 km. Thus, according to the idea of ​​the authors of the project, the promising CRAFT "Centaur" could provide air defense of stationary objects and troops on the march in the near zone, attacking approaching targets of various types with rocket or artillery weapons.

As you can see, Ukraine has certain achievements in the field of anti-aircraft systems. Using these developments, enterprises that are part of the Ukroboronprom concern will be able to create a modern anti-aircraft missile and artillery complex in the foreseeable future. The exact dates for the commencement of tests of the combat and command vehicles of the new AGREEMENT are not yet known. Moreover, at the moment it is precisely known only about the existence of a treaty between Ukraine and India. Probably, new information on the development of promising PSRA will appear in the very near future.


On the materials of the sites:
http://ukroboronprom.com.ua/
http://armstrade.org/
http://korrespondent.net/
http://pvo.guns.ru/
http://btvt.narod.ru/
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  1. Dimsan
    Dimsan 12 February 2014 08: 27
    -2
    This all sounds nice, of course, but as always, the deadlines are tightened and they receive an outdated ZRAK at the exit. And they cannot be compared with our Shell at all!
    1. Greyfox
      Greyfox 12 February 2014 09: 10
      +8
      The Ukrainian defense industry is now in the state of the Russian 90-ies. Plus the lack of experience in creating air defense systems. Remembering how painfully the Pantsir was created, the prospects for creating this ZRAK are vague. What can I say about the Indians, "Monsieur knows a lot about perversions."
      1. Vovka levka
        Vovka levka 12 February 2014 14: 17
        +4
        Quote: Greyfox
        The Ukrainian defense industry is now in the state of the Russian 90-ies. Plus the lack of experience in creating air defense systems. Remembering how painfully the Pantsir was created, the prospects for creating this ZRAK are vague. What can I say about the Indians, "Monsieur knows a lot about perversions."

        Why run ahead of the engine?
        Time will tell.
        1. Geisenberg
          Geisenberg 13 February 2014 06: 28
          +2
          Quote: Vovka Levka
          Quote: Greyfox
          The Ukrainian defense industry is now in the state of the Russian 90-ies. Plus the lack of experience in creating air defense systems. Remembering how painfully the Pantsir was created, the prospects for creating this ZRAK are vague. What can I say about the Indians, "Monsieur knows a lot about perversions."

          Why run ahead of the engine?
          Time will tell.


          time here just does not play a role. Maidan will show you the place where all Ukrainian industry is dented. Indians just down the drain letting their money if they contact the Ukrainians.
    2. badger1974
      badger1974 12 February 2014 11: 52
      +7
      a shell based on KAMAZ, it looks fearsome, you have a Tunguska, this is a masterpiece, upgrade it "in step with the times" and will be a masterpiece of ZRAK for at least 20 years
      1. anarky
        anarky 12 February 2014 15: 19
        +3
        Well, yes, it’s only 12 km that it hits a rocket. And KAMAZ is much cheaper than a tracked chassis. And in SM they promised to beat 40 km altogether ...
  2. Akim
    Akim 12 February 2014 08: 46
    +3
    I am here on the "Mіlіtarniy portal" (by the way a good professional forum, but a little nationalistic), I found a link to information.
    Sergei Zgurets, an expert at the Center for Army Research, Conversion and Disarmament, explained yesterday that the product is a "new short-range missile and cannon system." It will be mounted on an extended base of a multipurpose light armored transporter-tractor (MT-LB) with a new combat module. The module will include two surface-to-air missiles developed by the Luch design bureau, as well as two artillery pieces.

    http://www.kommersant.ua/doc/2404985
    Two rockets is not enough.
    1. cosmos111
      cosmos111 12 February 2014 11: 28
      +1
      Quote: Akim
      Two rockets is not enough.

      how exactly the air defense system, has no prospects (competition in this sector of the air defense system) is very strong (((
      "Panir-S" is an order of magnitude better in terms of performance characteristics ((((

      but the point is different ... the Ukrainians have created their own BMPT, based on the T-64 tank, it remains only to book a tank, a tower with a 4, 23 mm ZU-23-2 >>>> an excellent armored vehicle for urban battles good ((((((
      Syrians improvise, and here is almost a finished sample !!!!!
      1. cosmos111
        cosmos111 12 February 2014 11: 30
        +2
        _______________________________________________
        1. samoletil18
          samoletil18 12 February 2014 22: 33
          0
          From the proposed complex on the Maidan, they shy away in the presence of an Indian customer, and the contract will be executed with premium payments.
      2. Akim
        Akim 12 February 2014 11: 48
        +8
        Quote: cosmos111
        "Panir-S" is an order of magnitude better in performance characteristics

        Believe me - I don't care. The Shell or the Korean will win, I'm not hot not cold. But as a citizen of my country, I will be glad that the country is simply participating in the tender. So there will be a prospect for updating the fleet of its air defense brigade link. If the "Tunguska" turns out to be worse and the machines wear out, then there will be something to replace. In general, a start will be made.
        1. cosmos111
          cosmos111 12 February 2014 12: 33
          +1
          Quote: Akim
          In general, a start will be made.

          in the variant BMPT, will go like hot cakes (((
          Akim, call (those) in Ukroboronprom >>> suggest (those) an idea ((((
          in all comments, about the Syrian war >>>> "Shilka", an excellent vehicle for urban combat, but poorly armored ((((

          idea, I give it for free >>>> you will chop the bobble (those) and Ukroboronprom, you will not lose money (((
          You see, not only in Israel there are brains, And ???? what
          about the T-armored personnel carrier "Akhzarit" probably thought the same ((( recourse
          1. Akim
            Akim 12 February 2014 12: 42
            +3
            Quote: cosmos111
            Akim, call (those) in Ukroboronprom >>> suggest (those) an idea ((((

            The idea is not new. "Shilki" and "Pragi", even during the civil war in Yugoslavia, were used in this way and added additional armor to them. There were also variants based on the M-80 BMP.

            They put anti-aircraft guns both on the M60 and on armored tractors. But the tank chassis was not used, because the tanks themselves were needed. Serbs now have heavy infantry fighting vehicles.
            1. Roman 1977
              Roman 1977 12 February 2014 20: 39
              +3
              Well, if we talk about the ZRAK, then even Egypt has them: "Ain Sakr" (Egyptian modification of the Strela-2 "), combined with a 23-mm twin anti-aircraft gun based on the M113A2 armored personnel carrier and" Sinai-23 "also based on the M -113. "Sinai-23" has Soviet (licensed in Egypt) 23-mm anti-aircraft guns and three missiles "Aun Zakr", as well as a control and guidance radar company Dassault. "Nil-23" - also has two guns, two Aun Zakr missiles and a Thompson radar.

              Its further development

              Do not discount the Israelis, who at one time created a rather interesting ADAMS ZRAK, created together with the Americans, which is equipped with Barak-1 vertical-launch missiles (a container with eight missiles hangs slightly behind) and the American ship’s Vulcan Phalanx missile, while the radar from the cannon system is common to the entire complex and is used both as a search engine, as for firing a cannon and for guiding missiles. This approach, of course, reduces the cost of the system, but makes it impossible to simultaneously use different types of weapons - until the guidance of the missiles is completed - it is impossible even to prepare data for the guidance of the gun. And, of course, the system is fundamentally single-channel, both by target and by missile.

              A very interesting ZRAK was created in Serbia by the Yugoimport company, both on the basis of a 20-mm ZSU BOV-3 and on the basis of a truck.

              1. badger1974
                badger1974 12 February 2014 21: 14
                +1
                then cover the beam on Luazik with an assembly of arrows-3m and here are those zrk, and sell at least india for about. Easter, cheap and angry, Lutsk is in Ukraine, there are no problems with suppliers, no one needs "lunar rovers" so you can vparivat, arrows -3m identically without foreign supplies, the zrk itself, if you scratch a turnip, you can assemble needles and Attach Il-2 VYa attack aircraft, 23mm fit
                1. Roman 1977
                  Roman 1977 12 February 2014 21: 21
                  +3
                  No, this is the best Ukrainian unit, called Banderlog's dream, "mo.skalam"

                  The miracle of Svidomo thought !!! good
                  "Sala KHeroyam! Death to curds!"
                  1. badger1974
                    badger1974 12 February 2014 23: 15
                    0
                    Roma, a big plus, this is a thermo-mixture, which Indians do not want to buy an analogue of MLRS, that it is possible for each Indian on such a lunar roam, and Pakistan is in a deep knockout
                2. The comment was deleted.
              2. Roman 1977
                Roman 1977 12 February 2014 23: 49
                +3
                You can recall a few more options ZSU:
                For example, a Yemeni ZSU with an 20-mm six-barreled gun "Volcano" based on the BTR-152В1. A large body volume made it possible to conveniently place ammunition inside. A cut was made in the back of the car roof, which in the hot climate there made it possible to do without forced (and most often ineffective) ventilation.

                The Americans also tried to create at one time a ZSU based on the Stryker. The complex includes 8 missiles in transport and launch containers, a radar for target detection and missile guidance, a control computer, anti-jamming communications and data transmission equipment to ensure coordination between the complexes ADATS and other necessary equipment. The variant of the complex intended for the American army is also armed with a 25-mm automatic cannon and a 12,7-mm machine gun. The range of the complex is 8-10 kilometers.

                There was another version of the SPLAC LAV-AD - a system developed by General Dynamics, installed on the chassis of the LAV armored personnel carrier. Testing of the complex began in the 1992 year, and production of the complex was launched in the 1996 year. But now in the States there are only 17 of such complexes. The basic set of this installation: 25-mm gun GAU-12 Gatling, is used to combat targets at ranges up to 2,5 km. To her 8 guided anti-aircraft missiles "Stinger" - to hit targets at ranges up to 8 km.

                Another "Blaser" variant. It is armed with a Mistral missile defense system with a range of 6 km and a Thomson-CSF TRS 2630 radar, which is capable of detecting targets at ranges of up to 20 km. The radar is equipped with a phased antenna array and allows automatic tracking of targets and identification of "friend or foe".

                By the way, badger1974, if it’s interesting, Akim talked about 6 and 8 mi Iranian memory based on the memory 23, here are their photos

                1. badger1974
                  badger1974 13 February 2014 09: 46
                  0
                  Yeah, Iranian Mesbah is unrivaled, remote, sit in the dugout and stuff your own ribbons, the only thing on the march is the park
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        2. cosmos111
          cosmos111 12 February 2014 13: 00
          +3
          Quote: Akim
          t Shell or Korean,

          Korean serious rival ((((
          given the Korean high, the element base level (((
          and tracked platform based on K-21 infantry fighting vehicle good (((
          1. Akim
            Akim 12 February 2014 13: 43
            +2
            Quote: cosmos111
            given the Korean high, element base level ((

            The rate of fire in the guns is small 600 high./min per barrel. So, you need a VERY good MSA.
          2. Kars
            Kars 12 February 2014 14: 03
            +3
            Probably worth it will be like 5 Ukrainian complexes.
    2. anarky
      anarky 13 February 2014 04: 45
      0
      Maybe 2 types of rockets? And then the wasp BK more turns out.
  3. drossel81
    drossel81 12 February 2014 09: 14
    -2
    It will turn out like with BTR 4 for Iraq, the world will laugh again
    Link for those who do not know)) http://bmpd.livejournal.com/715996.html
    1. GastaClaus69
      GastaClaus69 12 February 2014 13: 38
      -4
      Well, well, laughed at the cracks in the Ukrainian armored vehicles? Maybe then you will laugh at the crack from which three tankers died in the Khabarovsk Territory? Or is it not funny anymore?
      1. badger1974
        badger1974 12 February 2014 13: 56
        +2
        for me personally, cracks are just an addition to the layout of the BTR-4, and even the four afloat photos cause a feeling of underworking, huge glazing, the doors are like a limousine, the seals sit down and what is there to sink, there was even a photo when the four is afloat and the tester is on it , his caution can be seen even through the photo, so about BTR-4-unfinished
        1. GastaClaus69
          GastaClaus69 12 February 2014 14: 23
          +1
          Yes, and so it is clear that the BTR-4 is not the crown of tank building, but a useful experience .. I’m annoyed by the gear-cutting of some citizens of the Russian Federation. No one was hurt because of our marriage, and even if some Iraqi had been hurt, it would not be cold, not hot for us. And the case of an exploding tank due to marriage is already a tragedy! And so, for which they fought for it and ran into it. But at the same time, they still continue to gnarled ..!
          1. maxvet
            maxvet 12 February 2014 21: 18
            +2
            if you consider the opinion of the Russians "scoffing", then your comment can be regarded as gloating ...
          2. SkiF_RnD
            SkiF_RnD 12 February 2014 22: 58
            0
            Do not escalate, please. Due to the fact that the flags are the same (or vice versa, different), it is not very smart to evaluate the qualities and advantages of strangers. This is most true for the Ukrainians themselves. You’ll listen to some of your compatriots, so you want to declare war on Ukraine. This is not a reason for me to tell you, for example, right now. I don’t even want to remind me somehow, I didn’t seem to offend anyone, but there is a sediment. So it’s not Russian, but Soviet, as yours love to write. Maybe his Ukrainian did? Just kidding. But you understood my idea, I think. Sincerely. hi
      2. drossel81
        drossel81 13 February 2014 06: 07
        0
        Well, after these words there is no doubt in your adequacy, and the story of the Soviet-Ukrainian assembly armored personnel carriers is a fact that cannot be ignored
  4. umah
    umah 12 February 2014 09: 42
    +6
    Hmm .. "Arrow" + "Shilka" = "StraShilka"

    You can say anything you want: and that intelligent life originated in Ukraine, and that Ukraine is a leader in anti-aircraft technologies, etc. But if you think about it, how can a country that has created only StraShilka claim to win the tender? If it were so easy to create an effective air defense / missile defense system (without any groundwork, from scratch), then India would have taken it up.
    1. Akim
      Akim 12 February 2014 10: 11
      +3
      Quote: umah
      But if you think about it, how can a country that has created only StraShilka claim to win the tender?

      If you can easily win a tender there, why are you nervous and ulcerating? Or is your money pulled out of your pocket?
    2. badger1974
      badger1974 12 February 2014 12: 25
      +2
      "StraShilka" --- hit the bull's-eye, there is no other way
  5. La-5
    La-5 12 February 2014 10: 00
    +2
    Why put a light turret heavy tank chassis? Anti-aircraft guns do not have the same range of tasks.
    1. badger1974
      badger1974 12 February 2014 11: 37
      +2
      in our day it happened, to mold everything in a tank chassis, but if BAT and any engineering equipment are created on a tank chassis, then this is a useful and necessary thing, then sculpt a BMP and here’s another miraculous deprivation of any aesthetics (parameter unimportant in general) , or the Indians are so stupid or have nowhere to put the chassis
    2. extankist
      extankist 12 February 2014 12: 31
      +3
      It depends on what you have in mind, the chassis of a tank without a turret and a cannon is not that heavy. Everything else is an attempt to achieve unification. Thus, to reduce the number of various repair kits, oils and greases, to reduce the "lifting" of material resources by the rear services.
      1. badger1974
        badger1974 12 February 2014 12: 51
        0
        if you subtract fifteen from forty, then twenty-five is a lot, after sticking what we see in the photo, you get the same 40 tons, not too heavy for a regimental air defense? here along the way it is necessary to figure out what the customer's terms of reference was, and if the Indians are satisfied with the tank chassis, then the rear services will not be able to reduce the "rise" of material resources, the Indians have Russian influence mate of the T-72 and T-90 bases as far as is known
        1. extankist
          extankist 12 February 2014 13: 10
          +4
          The weight of the "Tunguska" in the combat position is 34 tons, again, with unification, which is what every thinking minister of defense and his retinue in the GABTU or his analogue strives for, the weight of a car walking next to it does not matter, if we do not talk about the motor resource (the influence of weight affects ). But you are wrong about raising material resources. Variety of rem. kits, fuels and lubricants increases their total number for each unit of weapons and military equipment (utilization rate of rear and technical support vehicles), and when unified, it decreases in total mass. That's what I mean.
          1. badger1974
            badger1974 12 February 2014 13: 41
            +1
            there is no doubt, I drew attention to the fact that the Indians have a slightly different tank base, it is more Ural than Kharkiv, starting from hodovka and ending with a power plant, but if in Pakistan, yes, there are 80 Kharkiv,
            and so in general terms on the topic, Donetsk in this tender looks extremely bad from and to,
    3. Alexander D.
      Alexander D. 12 February 2014 23: 38
      +2
      Quote: La-5
      Why put a light turret heavy tank chassis? Anti-aircraft guns do not have the same range of tasks.

      And who told you that they will take the tank chassis as the basis? LKMZ is going to restore the production of MT-LB
      http://www.ukraineindustrial.info/archives/1524
      1. La-5
        La-5 13 February 2014 04: 48
        0
        What a stupid question? The article says so, plus a photo is.
        1. Akim
          Akim 13 February 2014 05: 13
          +1
          Quote: La-5
          plus a photo is.

          Photo of what? Or do you believe everything indiscriminately without analyzing?
  6. siberalt
    siberalt 12 February 2014 10: 30
    +1
    During the Vietnam War, military reports were published daily in the central newspapers of the USSR, including the number of downed American planes. The Soviet people "rooted" for Vietnam and rejoiced at every pair of three shot down planes. And suddenly, in 71-72. dozens of these planes were shot down almost every day. Our Shilki earned it. Soon the war ended.
  7. Aeneas
    Aeneas 12 February 2014 11: 12
    +5
    The carapace was created with Arab money, taking into account the requirements of the sheikhs. India provides money for two full-scale specimens and development. Parallels beg ... There is a rocket, or almost there repeat The beam created a rocket for the Belarusian air defense system Stiletto. the choice of base armor is also available. the radio-technical part is quite possible to integrate by the forces of Kiev Quantum, Radar, Zaporozhye Iskra, Donetsk Topaz. It would be a great desire! For many enterprises and design bureaus have a limited engineering and design staff. I judge by a rather successful Ray, from where I have some information from the "first hand". They have a lot of work on old topics for which money has already been paid by all sorts of Pakistanis, Belgians, Indians, etc. There is simply not enough staff and time. But with a 40-mm cannon, it seems to me, there may be problems, because Tula is not yet a Ukrainian city.
    1. Akim
      Akim 12 February 2014 11: 27
      0
      Quote: Aeneas
      But with a 40 mm gun, it seems to me, there may be problems, for Tula is not a Ukrainian city yet.

      Information flashed that it could be a 30-mm KBM-123.
      1. Argon
        Argon 12 February 2014 13: 09
        0
        But I know several countries with a slightly higher production and scientific potential than Ukraine, while they did not cope with the task of creating a ZRAK, these are the USA, Sweden, the countries of the European Union. The Russian "Pantsir" is still in the process of being finalized, not providing many Ukrainian optimism in the comments cannot but be skillful, but one should look at the issue soberly, most likely it is about expanding the potential of the Strela-10 complex by replacing the missile's seeker and integrating the artillery component with the corresponding radar (most likely of Israeli production). Having highly appreciated the humor of the Slav brothers about the calibers, it should be noted that the chassis of the "motorcycle league" is unlikely to withstand (in terms of stabilization parameters) even one 23mm machine gun. Most likely they will integrate Vladimirov's machine guns (I think a couple) because India has a fairly large number ZPU-2; ZPU-4. The main advantage of the resulting complex is the price, so only the Chinese can compete with it (but only theoretically). because they are an ally of Pakistan.
        1. Akim
          Akim 12 February 2014 13: 26
          +1
          Quote: Argon
          At the same time, they could not cope with the task of creating the ZRAK, these are the USA, Sweden, EU countries

          And the Chinese could! By the way, Italians finish their ZRAK with a 75 mm cannon. (one) + 4th air defense system. Turks on the way.
          1. badger1974
            badger1974 13 February 2014 09: 58
            0
            on top of the trunks along the air R-60 air-to-air, well done there really is a unification, then the Ray would better stick to the R-77 complex, it also has its share in the production
        2. anarky
          anarky 12 February 2014 15: 30
          +1
          That's just the requirement for modern US combat aircraft to drown when fired with 23 mm shells (hi Shilke) somehow it does not get along with the CPV in the air defense missile defense system. Why do you think 30 mm machine guns in Tunguska and Shell?
          1. Akim
            Akim 12 February 2014 15: 59
            +1
            Quote: anarky
            Here is just the requirement for modern combat aircraft in the United States to fire at the firing of 23-mm shells

            Chinese ZRAKs have a 25 mm cannon. Now the caliber is not important. 25 mm Bushmaster 25mm M242 Bushmaster APFSDS (core only 10 mm), pierces the T-54's frontal armor.
            1. leon-iv
              leon-iv 12 February 2014 16: 10
              +1
              Just the same caliber is now more important than ever because you need to choose the correct ratio of BK / Price / What can be crammed into it.
              1. Akim
                Akim 12 February 2014 16: 28
                0
                Quote: leon-iv
                choose the ratio BK / Price / What you can cram into it.

                Why is an anti-aircraft gun an excessive filling in shells? Density of fire and so is created high + fuses are installed remotely / automatically (well, this is in the future). Now such a gun against helicopters, cruise missiles and attack aircraft. All of them are relatively slow.
                1. leon-iv
                  leon-iv 12 February 2014 16: 49
                  +1
                  Why is an anti-aircraft gun an excessive filling in shells?

                  Increase the probability of hitting a target at the best price.
                  1. Akim
                    Akim 12 February 2014 17: 44
                    0
                    Quote: leon-iv
                    Increase the probability of hitting a target at the best price

                    So what's the little things?
                    Let's put a cannon like on Oto melara draco.
                    According to their calculations, three shells for an air target.
                  2. badger1974
                    badger1974 12 February 2014 20: 55
                    +1
                    it is extremely expensive, 23 mm wins in the density of a disconnected aiming axis, that is, like gatling-based systems, the frontal lesion area is cheaper to pull a bunch of 23mm or 20mm in a heap than to saturate them with all sorts of smarts
                2. anarky
                  anarky 12 February 2014 16: 54
                  +1
                  They discussed at the airbase that a cannon (in terms of the number of shells per target) is not much cheaper, and sometimes more expensive than a missile. Yes, and a smart shell of 23 mm is difficult to make, and even more so of a 14,5 mm CPV cartridge. And survivability is not only the quality and thickness of the armor, but also the relative position of the units, redundancy, etc. Even if the Bushmaster shell gets in, it’s not at all a fact that it will damage something vital. Look at the pictures of rooks from Chechnya and South Ossetia, with which they sometimes flew home. These are the damages that attack aircraft hold.

                  PS: yes and there are no such anti-aircraft guns in Ukraine. Is that to copy from Tunguska. And there are no such shells.
                  1. Akim
                    Akim 12 February 2014 17: 48
                    0
                    Quote: anarky
                    They discussed at the airbase that a cannon (in terms of the number of shells per target) is not much cheaper, and sometimes more expensive than a missile. Yes, and a smart shell of 23 mm is difficult to make, and even more so of a 14,5 mm CPV cartridge.

                    Let's wait and see. In general, the 23x152 shell is now small for anti-aircraft guns.
                    1. badger1974
                      badger1974 12 February 2014 20: 36
                      0
                      Oralovo, look at the Iranian complex ZAK woven from 6 23 mm, scream
                    2. anarky
                      anarky 12 February 2014 23: 29
                      0

                      Let's live - see

                      Well, it's interesting to guess)

                      In general, the 23x152 shell is now small for anti-aircraft guns.

                      What are we talking about
                  2. badger1974
                    badger1974 12 February 2014 20: 34
                    +1
                    14.5 it is compressed 23
                    1. anarky
                      anarky 13 February 2014 04: 42
                      0
                      And 14,5 is compressed 12,7 :)
                      1. badger1974
                        badger1974 13 February 2014 12: 12
                        0
                        I mean the Blumovsky 14,5-147mm, a pretty huge energy
                      2. anarky
                        anarky 13 February 2014 12: 29
                        0
                        In the sense of muzzle energy?
          2. badger1974
            badger1974 12 February 2014 23: 34
            +1
            Do you know what such ammunition will do with the T-34 with a complex of passive and active protection? absolutely nothing, zero - so no need to talk about the shooting gallery
        3. Alexander D.
          Alexander D. 12 February 2014 23: 43
          +1
          Quote: anarky
          That's just the requirement for modern US combat aircraft to drown when fired with 23 mm shells (hi Shilke) somehow it does not get along with the CPV in the air defense missile defense system. Why do you think 30 mm machine guns in Tunguska and Shell?

          Do you yourself believe that the Pantsir will shoot down the American F-15, F-16, F-18? It's not even worth dreaming about the F-22. The above planes will "send gifts" without even entering the coverage area of ​​this ZRAK. Amers already have bombs that hit a target at 40-60 km. Will the Carapace get him?
          1. anarky
            anarky 13 February 2014 04: 34
            0
            About the downing of the Pepelians, I did not start. although from an ambush on the optical channel why not? Here is the place to recall Yugoslavia.
            But the KAB or temple launched from the pepelats can well bring down.
          2. badger1974
            badger1974 13 February 2014 10: 07
            +1
            and the carapace doesn’t need to be chased after them, the ZRAK is intended to shrug off all twirls, storm trophies and flying tomahawks, for all F-long-range combat there are divisional S-300 type air defense systems and others, they will have to knock them down, and they’ll easily dump them like a gritsa no variation
  8. badger1974
    badger1974 12 February 2014 11: 44
    0
    I have a question as to a person who owns information,
    as far as it is known from the press, Luch works with nodes of many complexes with foreign companies, but he did not deal with IR systems, how much do I know about Arsenal was engaged in IR systems, is this company alive now? and if alive why is it not out of mind from him, in the past the leader IR GOS and Optics
    1. Akim
      Akim 12 February 2014 12: 04
      +2
      Quote: badger1974
      I know Arsenal was engaged in IR systems, is this enterprise alive now?

      The Arsenal plant is alive and well. Recently I received an order for Sura helmet-mounted designators.
      1. badger1974
        badger1974 12 February 2014 12: 23
        0
        this is of course great for aviation, but is it possible to bring such systems to life in air defense systems? It would be a good innovation, because the French also aim their rapiers with helmet target designation and a very long time ago
    2. Aeneas
      Aeneas 12 February 2014 12: 45
      +3
      coincidence ... I have a familiar engineer at the Arsenal. Well, such an engineer-technologist, but still at KB. The design bureau and the factory are working, the scale of course is not Soviet for a long time. Hindus rummage around the plant, are very interested in helmet-mounted target designation systems for pilots.
      1. badger1974
        badger1974 12 February 2014 14: 34
        0
        Yes, in our factories and defense enterprises, whoever doesn’t rummage around, but there’s practically no sense in this, it turns out one misunderstanding that overshadows truly rational and advanced developments
    3. Alexander D.
      Alexander D. 13 February 2014 00: 00
      +1
      Quote: badger1974
      I have a question as to a person who owns information,
      as far as it is known from the press, Luch works with nodes of many complexes with foreign companies, but he did not deal with IR systems, how much do I know about Arsenal was engaged in IR systems, is this company alive now? and if alive why is it not out of mind from him, in the past the leader IR GOS and Optics


      Especially for you:
      http://bmpd.livejournal.com/473586.html

      http://rbase.new-factoria.ru/news/ukraina-i-germaniya-razrabotali-mobilnyy-zrk-a
      sgla /

      http://kotobood.livejournal.com/561996.html
    4. LINX
      LINX 15 February 2014 03: 27
      0
      Quote: badger1974
      I have a question as to a person who owns information,
      as far as it is known from the press, Luch works with nodes of many complexes with foreign companies, but he did not deal with IR systems, how much do I know about Arsenal was engaged in IR systems, is this company alive now? and if alive why is it not out of mind from him, in the past the leader IR GOS and Optics


      KP Central Design Bureau Arsenal has mastered the production of advanced homing warheads



  9. leon-iv
    leon-iv 12 February 2014 15: 39
    0
    Yes, as the system is rather weak. In fact, the old RLC to which the OEC sawed.
    He, in fact, to saw and saw up to the Shell especially SM soon on the way.
    Then wat still interesting what radar will attach. I think Spark with a small size will be busy for a long time. There are 2 options, either for a long and tedious sawing all by ourselves or Collect around the world.
  • badger1974
    badger1974 12 February 2014 12: 05
    -1
    yeah, our defense industry never ceases to amaze with the masterpieces of "laughter and tears", after the ridicule of the BTR-4 and BMP based on the tank, this is a mixture of arrows and shilka based on 80-ki-just takes the first line of hits in ... uh in military equipment ,
    is it really impossible to do anything from scratch, because such advanced ideas are in Ukraine, an excellent material base, not to mention the groundwork from Soviet times, and here on those ..
    shame
    by the way, and no one will say on this push-push the SLA is also ancient, or there is an odd man from ATRA
  • Leshka
    Leshka 12 February 2014 12: 17
    +1
    Ukrainians should succeed
  • vkrav
    vkrav 12 February 2014 12: 31
    -5
    Damn, so will "create" or "deep modernization of Shilka"?
    1. Akim
      Akim 12 February 2014 12: 50
      +1
      Quote: vkrav
      Damn, so "will create" or "deep modernization of Shilka"

      There are no "shylok" in the Ukrainian army. Even the Marines. Don't be fooled by the picture, it's from the 90s.
      1. vkrav
        vkrav 12 February 2014 13: 51
        +2
        Well, then a blocky modification of the Yenisei ... Even cooler ... 57th year. Yes, and about Shilok you are wrong ... In Simferopol, the Shatka simply demonstrated to the particularly patriotic gang of Tatars, it was enough for them.
        1. Akim
          Akim 12 February 2014 14: 18
          +1
          Quote: vkrav
          Yes, and about Shilok you are wrong ... In Simferopol, the Tatars simply demonstrated to a particularly patriotic gangway Tatars, they had enough.

          I didn’t say that they don’t exist. They are simply put into reserve. The last were the Marines, two years ago. And from "Yenisei" - the caliber of 37-mm is now more relevant than 50 years ago.
    2. Vital 33
      Vital 33 12 February 2014 13: 04
      +1
      Damn, did you read the article? Or did you view the current diagonally?
      1. Akim
        Akim 12 February 2014 13: 30
        0
        Quote: Vital 33
        Or did you view the current diagonally?

        I read not only this one. No information yet. Only on the chassis.
        1. Vital 33
          Vital 33 12 February 2014 13: 37
          +1
          Akim I am not for you ..))) To the previous comrade. When I wrote your post was not yet, you got ahead of me for a couple of seconds ...
        2. The comment was deleted.
      2. vkrav
        vkrav 12 February 2014 13: 55
        +1
        Was it worth reading further? Is it information about a specific contract or a historical excursion about heroic achievements such as the Ukrainian type of the military-industrial complex?
        1. Vital 33
          Vital 33 12 February 2014 13: 59
          +1
          vkrav (3) SU  Today, 13:55 ↑ New


          And it made sense to read on

          I see ...
          Continue in the same spirit...
        2. The comment was deleted.
    3. The comment was deleted.
  • extankist
    extankist 12 February 2014 12: 37
    -1
    Quote: Leshka
    Ukrainians should succeed

    BTR-4 also turned out, so much so that it returned from Iraq almost in full force.
    1. Alexander D.
      Alexander D. 13 February 2014 00: 02
      +3
      And he went to Indonesia - you never know where you will find and where you will lose ...
  • crambol
    crambol 12 February 2014 12: 44
    0
    Ukraine will create anti-aircraft missile and artillery complex


    As they say - God give them, and we care about health!
  • sapran
    sapran 12 February 2014 12: 48
    +1
    The Indians have very stable ties with the Bofors, he is in their arsenal.
    Here, as it were, there are points of contact, the MTLBU chassis was surprised because there are options and studies on a special chassis developed both for self-propelled guns and for air defense systems using elements of the chassis and MTO from 478 (do not confuse with the "urebish" made on the basis of a tank chassis) this work collecting dust on shelves since 1995 and it is more preferable or easy to modify according to customer requirements. But for now, all these are just thoughts, conjectures and fantasies crying
    1. extankist
      extankist 12 February 2014 13: 20
      +3
      Over the years of service in the armed forces, I can say that the best chassis in my opinion are Ural, KrAZ, MTLB, from BTVT - T-80, 2C3, BREM-1 - everything else is somewhat difficult to operate and maintain (I didn’t serve as deputy armament in Tungusks, therefore I can’t give an assessment.) I don’t ask about trailers, E-5, a good trailer).
  • washi
    washi 12 February 2014 13: 45
    0
    Ukraine will create an anti-aircraft missile and artillery complex for India
    Brad.
    This is a modification of Shilka, which is already on the market.
    1. Alexander D.
      Alexander D. 13 February 2014 00: 05
      +2
      Quote: Vasya
      Ukraine will create an anti-aircraft missile and artillery complex for India
      Brad.
      This is a modification of Shilka, which is already on the market.

      Have you already seen the prototype? Where does such confidence in plagiarism come from?
      1. anarky
        anarky 13 February 2014 04: 58
        +1
        I respect your patriotism, but there are no competencies in creating an air defense system in Ukraine. The chassis from MT-LB is already alarming. Not for nothing that they used to make their chassis for ZRPKs. I just have a plant next to them that produced them (and now it seems, too)
        1. Akim
          Akim 13 February 2014 05: 19
          0
          Quote: anarky
          . The chassis from MT-LB is already alarming

          It all depends on the artillery systems and their rate of fire.
          1. anarky
            anarky 13 February 2014 12: 27
            0

            It all depends on the artillery systems and their rate of fire.

            It is clear that for a quad "Maxim" or ZGU-1 which thread is not needed, but if Ukraine plans to win this tender, it should be something at the level of Tunguska / Pantsir (25-30 mm) and with the corresponding rate of fire ( or even about 40-mm there was a rumor), so the cart will need an appropriate one.

            PS: Yes, and you still need to carry rockets with you. I hope that about "2 rockets" on the car - this is some kind of journalist error, otherwise the complex causes misunderstanding at the level of its concept.
  • 120352
    120352 12 February 2014 14: 44
    0
    And who on the Maidan will rage?
  • extankist
    extankist 12 February 2014 14: 54
    +5
    Quote: GastaClaus69
    Yes, and so it is clear that the BTR-4 is not the crown of tank building, but a useful experience .. I’m annoyed by the gear-cutting of some citizens of the Russian Federation. No one was hurt because of our marriage, and even if some Iraqi had been hurt, it would not be cold, not hot for us. And the case of an exploding tank due to marriage is already a tragedy! And so, for which they fought for it and ran into it. But at the same time, they still continue to gnarled ..!

    What a "bestial" manner of SOME gentlemen from Ukraine to link a technical dispute with victims. Moreover, in the Khabarovsk Territory there could be an elementary violation of security measures, sending a charge with a stopper from a cannon, etc., what does the design have to do with it. You will definitely bring a tank explosion, Nord-Ost, Volgograd.
    1. badger1974
      badger1974 12 February 2014 23: 42
      -2
      I’ll add, and the ggg themselves excreted overwhelmed the capital kiviv,
  • sapran
    sapran 12 February 2014 15: 03
    +2
    I don’t understand why the Tunguska Indians are "not satisfied"? !!! After all, the machine has been purchased and is already in service, why breed a variety of types? !!
    If everything is bad with the artillery unit at the "Tunguska", then it is not easier to somehow resolve the issue with the Russians on "filing" "corners and roughness" in the car at the request of the customer?
    1. leon-iv
      leon-iv 12 February 2014 15: 42
      +2
      Many people want to eat there. Moreover, the tunguska is still not the top of perfection.
    2. badger1974
      badger1974 12 February 2014 20: 43
      -1
      a freebie, that’s why, to the Indians it’s a Scarecrow and has not been combed in a stump, they, like the Chinese, need to seize the outskirts of the technology market, see the root
      1. Alexander D.
        Alexander D. 13 February 2014 00: 04
        +3
        Quote: badger1974
        a freebie, that’s why, to the Indians it’s a Scarecrow and has not been combed in a stump, they, like the Chinese, need to seize the outskirts of the technology market, see the root

        I wonder where you got such dislike (I would even say disgust) for everything Ukrainian, for everything that your compatriots produce?
        1. badger1974
          badger1974 13 February 2014 10: 38
          0
          I’ll answer, not to everything, but to the fact that, given a good material and intellectual base, the technique becomes ill-conceived from this stupid,
          for example, on the topic, okay with the chassis, there are a lot of this and pr-in debugged, but with the warhead complete n ....., and this is Luch- who participated in the development of excellent Scythian and Hornet complexes, excellent R-77 missiles ., in a compartment with Arsenal, you could have a little fun with the R-77 missile for the ZRAK-the answer is, let it hit 70 kilograms inappropriately, reduce it, you could hide the 2nd operators in the chassis body and make the artillery rocket uninhabited thereby by reducing the weight of the complex, the answer is possible, it is possible to facilitate the operator’s task of guiding the complex by means of an otic system of the type
          but it’s easier to stick the shilka tower and weld four TPKs with dozens of old, and all this know-how a hundred years in the afternoon,
          and such imperfection is a constant occurrence in military equipment
          it’s not angry here, but I rejoice when I really have something to be proud of, but that's just what the minuscule is proud of and it should be awesome
    3. Argon
      Argon 13 February 2014 00: 40
      0
      Just with the artillery unit at the Tunguska everything is in order, there are nuances with the missile control channel that do not suit the military at present (the lack of a thermal imager). Ultimately, the Indians are not satisfied with the price of the issue, this concerns the Pantsir, Tunguska, "STRA" Shilki "-There is also a political component. The fact is that the main enemy of the complex being created will be transport helicopters of the Pakistani Air Force, with the help of which infantry will be transferred and supplied in the mountains of Kashmir (now there is a demelitarized zone). Moscow and London They are actively working to regulate the conflict between the nuclear powers. The main element of this policy is to prevent violation of the military parity of opponents. For this reason, the main manufacturers of ZRAK will not arm the opposing sides (I mean Russia, China). The main "modernizer" of Shilka is Belarus It is also unlikely to be outraged. And the operation of a modern high-tech ZRAK in high altitude conditions is laborious, and given its st The cost and "features of logistics" in the mountains are also wasteful. In these conditions, India is trying to develop ZRAK using the dubious potential of "independent Ukraine". Given the rather high level of those project risks and the required low cost of the serial sample, the main requirement, I think that work will go along the way described in my first comment (see above, if you're interested, of course).
  • Cristall
    Cristall 13 February 2014 02: 02
    +1
    Well - it will be interesting how engineers can solve the problem.
    I ask polit. discuss topics in their headings. Through each line a message to end the conversation on the "Maidan"
    1. badger1974
      badger1974 13 February 2014 12: 02
      0
      but there’s nothing to see there, the engineers have already solved this problem as always ..... well, this is why this absurdity in Ukrainian parades will ride with the unnecessary Yatagans
  • stix99
    stix99 15 February 2014 01: 38
    0
    VERY LIKE THE CAR ON THE "New Indian project for the modernization of BMP-2" ..... hi