Military Review

17 watch glory aircraft carrier "Shinano"

70



One old Japanese proverb says: “In the world, the three largest and most useless things were created - the Great Wall of China, the Egyptian pyramids and the Japanese Yamato class battleships. But the truth is, the largest battleships in stories of humanity - these indestructible monsters, thousand-ton steel giants - could not fully reveal their potential, and they actually appeared at the dawn of the dreadnought era, when a new shock force had already replaced fleet - aircraft carriers.

In total, four ships of this class were laid. Only two of them, “Yamato” and “Musashi”, were completed and participated in combat operations of the Imperial fleet, the fourth (building # XXUMX) was disassembled on the slipway, but from the third, # XXUMX ... With the third an interesting, but tragic story came out . However, first things first.

After the defeat in the Battle of Midway, the Japanese fleet simply lacked aircraft carriers. Still, losing the best heavy aircraft carrier and almost 4 aircraft in one fight is very, very noticeable! And with this it was necessary to do something. Given the relatively low speed of shipbuilding in Japan and a shortage of materials, it was decided to urgently re-equip existing ships (mostly passenger liners) or unfinished projects into a sort of ersatz aircraft. The admirals' attention was drawn by the third Yamato class ship, #250, ready for 50%. Awareness of the uselessness of battleships in the Pacific has already arrived, and there was not much money for completion, so in the summer of 110, No.1942 began to finish building as a heavy aircraft carrier and named it Shinano. He had literally everything ... Starting from the displacement, ending the headache of engineers about how to make at least an average aircraft carrier out of a good battleship.

Speaking of displacement. There is information everywhere about the total displacement of the ship at 72 thousand tons, almost the same as the total mass of the battleship classmate. The figure is dubious, since the thickness of the Shinano reservation was reduced, there were no GK towers on it, nor was a massive superstructure. However, there was an armored flight deck, additional supplies Tanks with fuel and planes, but they are unlikely to have brought the aircraft carrier to the same mass with linear. Probably, the real figure of the total displacement is floating around 65 thousand, which is also very, very impressive. Instead of the largest and most useless battleship in the world, the Sinano was destined to become the largest and most useless aircraft carrier in the world. And that's why.

The launch of the 8 on October 1944 of the year took place, completion work continued as a matter of urgency at the naval shipyard in Yokosuka, but by November the 44 American super-strengths B-29 had already reached the shipyard and were potentially dangerous for the ship. The management decided to transfer him away from harm to the base in Kure, which is located on the other side of Japan, and there it is already there to make the final adjustment and acceptance. No sooner said than done. 2176 sailors and officers, 300 shipyard workers, and about 40 various civilians came on board. While the aircraft carrier was preparing to depart, all the unoccupied hands were riveting, boiling, painting, caulking, in general, the ship mechanisms and systems were brought to mind. November 19 The Shinano 1944 was officially introduced into the fleet.

Only the best of the best should command the pride of the fleet. That was Captain Toshio Abe. Just two years ago at Midway, he commanded a destroyer division. Here he is already on the bridge of the very ship in the world. Such an inconceivable career growth quite clearly gives an idea of ​​the general state of affairs in the ship’s crew. No, the sailors, of course, knew their business, but many of them were “green” graduates of training courses, and the rest lacked neither experience, nor skill, nor the proper fighting spirit.

Captain Abe was informed that there would be no air cover from the shore, and his own air group was not yet equipped. The only thing that could fly aboard the aircraft carrier was passing cargo from the Oka 50 guided missiles, but they were not suitable as a defensive weapon. Three destroyers (Isokadze, Yukikaze and Hamakadze) were assigned as escort escorts, and two of them had problems with radio and sonar equipment that they did not manage to eliminate after the Battle of Leyte Gulf. Very careless attitude to the "last support of the fleet." The only hope for a safe swimming was the night transition.

28 November 1944 of the year at 18 hours of the afternoon on a warm fine evening (and they have there at the end of November around + 10) "Shinano" left Tokyo harbor and went on his first military campaign. An almost full moon was shining in the sky, which provided excellent visibility to both observers friendly and not so much. Having moved some distance from the port, the ship took the course 210 and anti-submarine zigzag at a speed of about 20 nodes (they could not give more, only 8 boilers from 12 operated) headed towards the port of destination, and feast reigned in the galley. Traditional black bean miso soup was served, there were also delicious corn tortillas, cakes and fruits. Incredible luxury for a war-torn country.

On board the USS Archerfish submarine that evening a gloomy mood reigned. For several days, not a single vessel, even remotely similar to the target, has been shown. This was their fifth military campaign, and the sailors simply scratched their hands to accomplish some sort of feat as quickly as possible, receive a medal and go to the coast to celebrate this matter. The boat was quite large, 95 meters in length and 2400 tons of underwater displacement. The maximum speed on the passport reached 20 nodes, but after five trips the maximum available was around 19. Divine providence was no longer on the side of the Japanese. So that November evening, when the malfunctioning radar of the submarine was still launched, he immediately found the object in 12 miles to the northeast. Initially, the target was mistakenly identified as an island, but when it became clear that the “island” was moving, the captain of the submarine, Joseph Enright, happily rubbed his hands. After all, what could be so big, except for a thick tanker, and tankers — slow and easy targets ... And only one destroyer noticed as part of the escort.



On the "Shinano" watch officer made a detour and warned observers: "Be careful." The officer on duty at the radar station noticed flashes from the radar beam and determined by their signature that they belonged to an American submarine. Captain Abe found it necessary to notify the escort and increase combat readiness.

Despite the clear weather, the Archerfish uniquely identified the target as an aircraft carrier only in 21: 40. The situation has changed dramatically. A warship is not a slow, helpless navynik, but a dangerous enemy with a strong escort of escort. In such an ambiguous situation, Captain Enright decides to go on a follow-up course with a subsequent attempt to make a torpedo attack of the target. By this time, both the Americans and the Japanese knew exactly about the presence of each other and the relative location of the enemy. At any moment, the destroyers of the cover could make an impudent submarine, but the courageous crew in the surface position squeezed out of their "fish" everything possible and impossible, risking a breakdown of the diesel engine in the hope of a successful volley. At some point, the destroyer Isokadze leaves the order and the 35 node motion goes straight to the boat. The crew of the submarine is ready to dive, turn away, but in the last seconds, Captain Abe gives the order to the destroyer to return to the system. Most likely, the Shinano considered such arrogant actions of the boat to be just a red herring and, fearing the attack of the wolf pack, Toshio prefers to keep all available forces with him, hoping for the speed of the convoy, but, although the speed is higher, the anti-submarine zigzag, which is connected, does not give up on the "Archerfish".

In 23: 20 due to overheating of the bearing of the propeller shaft, the Shinano reduces speed to 18 nodes. The boat is slowly beginning to catch up. In 3: 05 in the morning, the Archerfish finally reaches a more or less comfortable distance and attack rate. Naturally, dives. The Japanese who have lost radar contact with the enemy, fearing this very attack, lay an unexpectedly large turn and ... roll out right across the course of the submarine at a distance of several hundred meters, literally at the pistol shot. "Shinano" clearly someone jinxed. Four out of six torpedoes hit the target one by one. Measured and mercilessly, right in the middle of the hull on the starboard side. Joseph Enright diving to 160 meters on his “fish”, is subjected to an unsuccessful and unpresented (non-working sonars) attack of destroyers and safely escapes, and the tragedy begins to unfold on the aircraft carrier at this moment. Time on the clock - 3: 17 am ...

The first torpedo hit the board a little forward from the helm, flooded refrigerated warehouses, and one empty tank for aviation fuel. Also, the shock wave killed many sleeping engineers from the technical staff, who rested from the watch in the premises above. The second torpedo hit the junction of the propeller shaft with the hull and flooded the shaft line. The third hit the starboard in the area of ​​the boiler room №3, flooded it and drowned all the attendants on duty. The destruction of the hull also led to the beginning of the flooding of adjacent boiler houses. The fourth and final flooded right-side compressor station, anti-aircraft shell depot and damage control station №2. It is obvious that such destruction for sinking a ship of this class is clearly insufficient. To drown the Yamato, it took 10 torpedoes and 13 bombs. And then he sank after the explosion of artillery grabs. Musashi received 12 torpedoes and 10 bombs, and also fought for buoyancy for a long time. Had such a situation happened with a fully operational ship, the Shinano would have safely reached the port of destination and began repairing it, which probably would not have ended before the end of the war. But he was not such a ship. The aircraft carrier was actually unfinished: the klinketny doors were unpressurized, the watertight bulkheads were poorly fixed and flowed along all the seams, the stationary pumps did not work, and the manual pumps were clearly not enough, and not everyone knew how to handle them. The situation was aggravated by the decision of Captain Abe after a torpedo attack to go at full speed, to prevent subsequent hits from an imaginary wolf pack of American submarines. The pressure of the water flow on the 18 nodal course literally pushed the aircraft carrier under water.

The situation can be described briefly: immediately after receiving damage, flooding became uncontrollable. It is simply unrealistic to plug all non-capped openings for cables and pipes in bulkheads under conditions of constant flow of water. The ship was doomed. It remained only to be thrown onto the shore, and even that is not a fact that they would have reached.

In 03: 30, the heel reached 15 degrees, then, thanks to counter floods on the port side, the ship straightened up a bit, to 12 degrees, but it was obvious that it was impossible to reverse the situation.

In 5: 00, the captain gave the order to transfer all civilian and working shipyards to the destroyers who approached, as they sowed panic and interfered with rescue operations. By morning 6, the bank reached 20 degrees and continued to grow, by seven due to the lack of steam, the engines stopped. Attempt to take the aircraft carrier in tow failed. As a tugboat, there were only small destroyers who simply would not have pulled the Shinano mass, and there were no suitable towing cables of suitable thickness. In 9: 00 ship de-energized. The roll remained at the level of 20 °. In 10: 18, the crew sounded to leave the ship, evacuation began, while Captain Abe himself and his two watch assistants preferred to stay and die along with the ship. The crew rescue situation was aggravated by the fact that the flight deck had already touched the water and its huge streams rushed through lifts and other technological hatches into the interior, drawing people from the ocean surface to the depths.

In 10: 57, after 17 hours after entering its first combat campaign, the Shinano went on board and went to the bottom, stern ahead, taking the life of the 1435 sailors with them. Although the official Japanese version provides data in 600-700 dead. It is believed that many were saved by using individual rescue equipment. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. The portrait of the emperor was rescued, secret documents remained in the safe and lay at a depth of 4 km.

So ended the tragic history of the world's largest aircraft carrier (only 10 years it surpassed in size American "Forrestal"). It should be added that the emergency regime, simply unprecedented, secrecy led to the fact that until the very end of the war Joseph Enright did not know what kind of “island” he had sunk. The 28-thousandth “Hayataka” was recorded on his account, and then only after he described the vessel in detail and provided him with an exploration of his sketches. By the way, there was no such hayataki in the Japanese imperial fleet, and instead of recording the captain in the track record of an aircraft carrier, which, according to intelligence, simply could not be, and he was, he was recorded another, which, according to the intelligence department existed. It was only after the war that they finally figured out and, with joy, handed Enright a naval cross, for an invaluable contribution, so to speak. Enright, in turn, wrote a whole book about a drowning Shinano, a very decent book.

In conclusion, I would like to add that the secrecy of the aircraft carrier played another sad joke with him: today only two photos of the ship are known. One of them was made from an American reconnaissance aircraft (the appearance of which led to the fateful decision to transfer the vessel), and the second from the coast during sea trials after launching. And that's all, no more reliable photos. The November aerial photographs of Yokosuki are on the Internet, but they are difficult to find, and the quality does not allow one to unequivocally consider where Shinano stands there.



Materials used:
http://www.angelfire.com/planet/solomon0/Shinano.htm
http://www.brighthubengineering.com/marine-history/115666-ijn-shinano-japans-largest-aircraft-carrier/
http://www.militaryfactory.com/ships/detail.asp?ship_id=IJN-Shinano
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_aircraft_carrier_Shinano
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  1. Santa Fe
    Santa Fe 7 February 2014 08: 43
    +7
    One old Japanese proverb says: “The three largest and most useless things were created in the world - the Great Wall of China, Egyptian pyramids and Japanese battleships of the Yamato class. But the truth is, the largest battleships in the history of mankind - these indestructible monsters, thousand-ton steel giants - have not been able to fully reveal their potential

    Oh really??

    Ships were built, participated in combat operations, died heroically in the conditions of the numerical superiority of the enemy - what else do you want from them?

    When the Yankees learned their true size and caliber GK - 460 mm - oo @ boiled over boiling water

    The way that Yamato and Musashi died - proves that they were well-designed before, tenacious beasts died only after 10-11 torpedo hits, most of which were from ONE side

    As for the allegedly "ineffective" spending of funds: whatever the Japanese build instead of Yamato - the result in 1944-45. would be alone. Think Shokaku and Taiho - they couldn't even get to the DB zone
    1. tlauicol
      tlauicol 7 February 2014 09: 11
      +3


      it's like seriously discussing survivability of Comrade Katani, in which bandits planted 50-60 bullets. although one would be enough.
      Yamato and Musashi 6-7 torpedoes would be enough for the eyes, and Yamato exploded already turning over.
      cruiser "Nati" was hit by 10 torpedoes and 21 bombs? Yeah, only the first hit paralyzed him. he waited helplessly for several hours while the Yankees returned to the aircraft carriers, refueled and armed the planes, took off again, line up and flew back. And then each pilot hastened to plant ammunition in the agonizing ship, before it disintegrates into atoms
      1. tlauicol
        tlauicol 7 February 2014 09: 27
        +6
        For comparison, the aircraft carrier Hornet, 25000t. Disabled by 4 bombs and two torpedoes, + 2 ram attacks. not bad for an armless aircraft carrier full of fuel and ammunition! Another bomb and torpedo - and he finally left the emergency parties. You can consider the ship destroyed.
        But he doesn’t sink! Nobody is fighting for survivability! the destroyer "Mastin" fired eight torpedoes at it, three of which hit the target. Then eight torpedoes were fired by the destroyer Andreson. Although it was hit by 6 more torpedoes, the aircraft carrier remained afloat. The destroyers opened cannon fire, firing a total of more than 150 shells. The Japanese are driving the Americans away to take him in tow !!! However, seeing the scorched skeleton, 6 more torpedoes are inserted into it!
        Total: 5 bombs, 2 ramming planes unspecified number of 5tidyuymovyh shells and 18 torpedos, half from which one heavy Japanese torpedoes. Despite the fact that the struggle for survival has long ceased. Yamato Musashi nervously smoking in aside, looking at the aircraft carrier, to-ing is three times smaller and is not protected by 400mm - 500mm armor.
        Ammunition overrun - and Yamato and Hornet actually need much less. But the pilots want to excel! Excitement and hatred.
        1. CHILD
          CHILD 7 February 2014 09: 46
          +4
          yes)))) not successful, everything turned out ... sneakily awake))))))
        2. Santa Fe
          Santa Fe 7 February 2014 20: 56
          0
          Quote: Tlauicol
          For comparison, the aircraft carrier Hornet, 25000

          Says little
          Its dimensions are similar to those of the Yamato, all the difference is in the density of the filling and the contours of the underwater part

          Hornet is an exceptional case of survivability of ships of this class, more than NEVER ANYTHING REPEATED anywhere else. The only explanation is that the lightweight body with sealed hatches in the bulkheads floated on the surface of the water like a porous cork)) A gas storage explosion was miraculously avoided - most likely, there was not much fuel left on the boat and it managed to burn out

          In terms of ship survivability, aircraft carriers are a bad example.

          Yorktown (Hornet's twin brother) - barely alive after two torpedoes, roll 20 degrees, abandoned by the crew, towed. Two more torpedoes and the end came

          "Wasp"(a close relative of Hornet) - burned down and drowned from two torpedoes

          Lexington (~ 50 thousand tons) - two bombs and two torpedoes, an explosion of gasoline vapors, the end

          "Sekaku" - 3 torpedoes, fuel tank detonation, end

          "Taiho" - 1 torpedo, explosion of gas vapors after 6 hours after the attack, end

          "Arc Royal" (pictured) - quietly rolled over from one torpedo. it happens
          1. SkiF_RnD
            SkiF_RnD 8 February 2014 00: 05
            0
            I think that the battleships of the Third Reich "Bismarck" and "Tirpitz" are good examples of the survivability of ships of their class.
          2. tlauicol
            tlauicol 8 February 2014 07: 26
            0
            (C) "The only explanation is that the armored hull with sealed hatches in the bulkheads floated on the surface of the water like a porous plug" - an excellent explanation of the buoyancy of the section of the TKR pr.82 "Stalingrad"
            Battleships: newest Odeshes - one mine

            Viribus Unitis is the newest, weakest battleship, but 90 kg of TNT in a mine is Bugaga!

            "Conti di Cavour" - one torpedo

            Valiant - one man / torpedo

            and if we start counting two, three torpedoes / bombs - how many can’t be counted?

            I wrote about Hornet / Yamato - much less is needed to destroy them
            1. Santa Fe
              Santa Fe 8 February 2014 16: 32
              0
              Quote: Tlauicol
              Battleships: newest Odeshes - one mine

              Dreadnought. It was built before the First World War
              In those days, very little attention was paid to the issues of PTZ
              Quote: Tlauicol
              Viribus Unitis "is the newest, weakest battleship, but 90 kg of TNT in a mine is Bugaga!

              Similarly
              Little dreadnought built in the beginning of the century
              Quote: Tlauicol
              "Conti di Cavour" - one torpedo

              Take a look at the year of its construction
              Similarly
              Quote: Tlauicol
              Valiant - one man / torpedo

              Quinn - WWII superdreadnaught, same as his fellow Barham
              Similarly
              Quote: Tlauicol
              and if we start counting two, three torpedoes / bombs - how many can’t be counted?

              Of interest are only ships built in the late 30 - early 40's

              Not one of them was sunk by conventional bombs
              Only Prince of Wales died from 2 torpedoes (far from the most perfect, constructive mistake + unfavorable combination of circumstances)
              Quote: Tlauicol
              I wrote about Hornet / Yamato - much less is needed to destroy them

              6 underwater explosions without serious loss of combat capability - great result
              1. Kars
                Kars 8 February 2014 16: 37
                +1
                Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                Odeishes "- one mine
                Dreadnought. It was built before the First World War

              2. tlauicol
                tlauicol 8 February 2014 16: 47
                0
                In sl. Once I will write directly: "Odeyshes" was built before WWII - ie. exactly one year before his death!

                and what kind of conventional bombs? FAB100? What Washington agreements prohibit the use of armor-piercing or heavy bombs against battleships?
                1. Kars
                  Kars 8 February 2014 17: 28
                  +1
                  Quote: Tlauicol
                  and what kind of conventional bombs? FAB100?

                  up to 2 tons and not manageable.
                  1. tlauicol
                    tlauicol 8 February 2014 17: 36
                    0
                    The rules of war do not allow or what? Then ban torpedoes / mines. Oleg won, he prefers that I "attack" battleships / cruisers on the move, for example
                    1. Kars
                      Kars 8 February 2014 23: 13
                      +1
                      Quote: Tlauicol
                      The rules of war do not allow it?

                      Physics rules. What kind of carrier aircraft could carry and use such ammunition? I look at Polmar’s lists of aircraft carrier weapons - at most 2000 Pounds. And heavy bombers with high accuracy were very low accuracy.

                      about the move - I agree, it would be nice to go. By the way, due to lack of fuel, Yamato did not develop maximum speed, and did not keep all the boilers in work .. at his last exit. And the Yankees are almost in perfect conditions and having scout managed to lose almost 50 aircraft (lost)
                      1. tlauicol
                        tlauicol 9 February 2014 05: 38
                        0
                        Too much bonuses for battleship, is not it? Interest-only represent the newest battleships late 30s-nachala40h years (Oleg). Just ordinary bombs. Medium and small caliber. One or two per brother. Battleship on the basis hodu.V not attack. No torpedoes / mines. No ASD. Accordingly, there are no submarines either. Only deck aircraft. The balance of forces is desirable 2linkora against the carrier. Non-flying weather.
                        The rules of physics, like the rules of war, will not forbid even a wretched biplane to take a torpedo. But the rules of physics forbid book the entire ship - from the keel to the truck
                        It is a pity that the 50 aircraft were lost - two destroyers it seems to have gone
                      2. Kars
                        Kars 9 February 2014 13: 17
                        +1
                        Quote: Tlauicol
                        A lot of bonuses for the battleship, do not you find?

                        What are you talking about being at sea? You should be in port, and even before the declaration of war)))))
                        Quote: Tlauicol
                        . Just ordinary bombs. Medium and small caliber. One or two brothers

                        As I already wrote unusual bombs, carrier aircraft are not if, so how can this be considered a bonus?

                        Quote: Tlauicol
                        No torpedoes / mines. No PSA.

                        Well, torpedoes were excluded from the experiment at will, and the UAB, in principle, wasn’t, at the end of the war they made limited quantities of Fritz.

                        Quote: Tlauicol
                        Only deck aircraft. The balance of forces is desirable 2linkor against an aircraft carrier.

                        And what can an aircraft carrier use not carrier-based aviation? Will you use the Doolittle method? I am only for)))
                        Quote: Tlauicol
                        and what kind of conventional bombs? FAB100? What Washington agreements prohibit the use of armor-piercing or heavy bombs against battleships?

                        By the way, you didn’t mention torpedoes / mines here, so what is the essence of the pretension?
                        Quote: Tlauicol
                        even a wretched biplane will not be forbidden to take a torpedo.

                        biplane - yes please, it will be great if you arm your aircraft carrier with them, the irons will not come to your aid like in the Danish Gulf.
                      3. tlauicol
                        tlauicol 9 February 2014 16: 45
                        0
                        And what you've came up against the aircraft carriers? in war all means are good, especially aviation. Battleship was created against carriers or what? I breathe evenly for aircraft carriers, but battleships ... except for the beauty I love, but for the rest crap and written shell
                    2. Santa Fe
                      Santa Fe 9 February 2014 15: 05
                      0
                      Quote: Tlauicol
                      Of interest are only the latest battleships of the late 30x-beginning40x years (Oleg).

                      Why consider the dreadnoughts of the beginning of the century, if they had a number of obvious shortcomings - first of all, little attention was paid to anti-torpedo protection
                    3. tlauicol
                      tlauicol 9 February 2014 16: 46
                      0
                      battleships of the beginning of the century also drowned at the beginning of the century with modern weapons

                      and then consider that? Only Iowa. the rest is recessed from new
                    4. Santa Fe
                      Santa Fe 9 February 2014 19: 02
                      0
                      Quote: Tlauicol
                      battleships of the beginning of the century also drowned at the beginning of the century with modern weapons

                      Artillery

                      The first meeting with the submarine and its torpedo weapons shocked the Britons (Hawk, Albuquir and Kreissy ~ von Vedigen)
                      But until the 20's, little attention was paid to the issues of PTZ

                      EMNIP system width PTZ Orel (Tsushima) - 1 m, PTZ Tirpitsa ~ 5 meters
                      Quote: Tlauicol
                      only iowa

                      Everything that was built in the 30-e, 40-e
  • Papakiko
    Papakiko 7 February 2014 10: 38
    +2
    Quote: Tlauicol
    And then each pilot hastened to plant the ammunition in an agonizing ship, before it decays into atoms

    Categorically true comrade.
    For to return to the deck with a torpedo under the belly is a "divine wind".
    And examples of "Bismarck", "Tirpitz", "Hood", American troughs in Pearl Harbor are quite enough.
  • Santa Fe
    Santa Fe 7 February 2014 21: 02
    0
    Quote: Tlauicol
    Yamato and Musashi 6-7 torpedoes would be enough for the eyes

    Six torpedoes - precisely for such a max. the number of hits was calculated by PTZ Yamato, without a significant loss of combat capability of the battleship (which was demonstrated during the sinking of Musashi)

    Next - serious problems begin.

    a lot depends on the damage scheme, it is desirable that the hits fall on both sides, then the ship can withstand more. Yamato was smashed mainly by the left side (10) and all 1 hit the right
    1. tlauicol
      tlauicol 8 February 2014 07: 34
      0
      how do you think the loss of a third of the artillery of the Civil Code is a significant loss of combat effectiveness? after being hit by a torpedo in the single weak Musashi two years earlier
      1. Santa Fe
        Santa Fe 8 February 2014 17: 01
        0
        Quote: Tlauicol
        in Musashi two years earlier

        I do not know such a case request
        Mb boat torpedoing in xnumx? But it all ended well for Musashi.

        In the 1943, Yamato torpedoed - the torpedo successfully hit the joint between the armored carrier and the PTZ. Flooded the cellar tower GK

        By the way, Yamato had 1147 waterproof compartments
        Quote: Tlauicol
        loss of a third of the artillery of the Civil Code is a significant loss of combat capability?

        The full speed, control, power supply, anti-aircraft guns and 2 / 3 art.GK are preserved. It will not be lost in battle, and cross the ocean on its own
        1. tlauicol
          tlauicol 8 February 2014 17: 32
          0
          Well, yes, Yamato.

          1147 watertight compartments?!? Hmmm, maybe it transcend torpedoes 1146
  • Andrei from Chelyabinsk
    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 7 February 2014 09: 41
    +12
    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
    Oh really??

    In fact, yes
    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
    Ships were built, participated in combat operations, died heroically in the conditions of the numerical superiority of the enemy - what else do you want from them?

    Well, let's figure it out. The war began. The Japanese paralyzed the actions of the American fleet, gouging it in Pearl Harbor, captured the Philippines, Indonesia, all sorts of Singapore and so on and so forth ... Who did it? without touching on the very heroic actions of the army and the air force (we are talking about the navy, right?) - this is the work of Japanese aircraft carriers, battle and heavy cruisers, destroyers. And what about the "Khasir fleet"? But they did not touch him, they kept him in emergency. Midway? Yes, if Yamamoto covered Nagumo's aircraft carriers with his battleships, and did not keep them 100500 miles behind, Midway would be Japanese. And Guadalcanal? What would become of the American Dakotas if the Japanese had not thrown their old battle cruisers into the attack, but the Yamato? The question, in my opinion, is rhetorical. And in the end, the Japanese threw their battleships into a decisive battle only at Leith, when nothing could save them from defeat.
    In general, Yamato and Musashi really turned out to be no more useful for Japan than the Chinese wall. But the blame for this is not the battleships, but the leadership of the nihon kaigun, which was completely unable to dispose of the power at its disposal.
    1. Santa Fe
      Santa Fe 7 February 2014 21: 11
      0
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      And what about the "Khasir fleet"?

      It was common for all fleets to conserve their "main forces" for a more important, general battle (which will never come wink )
      At the same pasta burned with their Vittorio Veneto
      Tirpitz can also be credited here, but the Germans were able to turn him into a powerful scarecrow and trap.

      WWII battleships were effectively used for their intended purpose only by the Allied fleets - they had multiple numerical superiority at sea and in the air, more moves and opportunities.
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      In general, Yamato and Musashi really turned out to be no more useful for Japan than the Chinese wall.

      The moral aspect in itself exceeded all others.
      The spirit of the nation is built on such things.
      1. tlauicol
        tlauicol 8 February 2014 07: 36
        0
        The spirit of the nation is built on victories.

        You, Oleg, a renegade, apostate and heretic, strayed from the path of the righteous Kars am
        1. tlauicol
          tlauicol 8 February 2014 09: 08
          0
          Tirpitz is a scarecrow! Right ! (C) "WWII battleships were effectively used for their intended purpose only by the Allied fleets - they had multiple numerical superiority at sea and in the air" - not in the eyebrow, but in the eye

          MAS15 (15 tons of VI) drowned the dreadnought 1500 times more than itself.

          "Tirpitz" - well, uh ... well, but he took 5 saboteurs prisoner who blew it up


          Minzag "Nusret" (365 tons) drowned three battleships, disabled a linear cr-r

          New Jersey allegedly killed 172 Vietnamese, firing 6200 main battery shells

          Liner "Queen Mary" during the war, transported 1 soldiers and officers. Alone, without protection, hoping only for his own speed and luck. Needless to say, in decades of peace, he earned money and did not spend? However, there was also a loss from him - the liner cut in half the light cr-r Curacao (and here they are poking damage from the destroyer tanker Arleigh Burke / Porter, which does not even have light armor)

          Yamato - shot down 5 planes

          Escort aircraft carrier Bogue (alteration based on a dry cargo ship) - sank 13 submarines

          Corvette "Malmo" (380t - we would have had a missile boat) captured a boat of Somali pirates



          Atomic cr-r "Peter the Great" (25 tons) - also captured a boat with pirates
          1. Santa Fe
            Santa Fe 8 February 2014 17: 17
            0
            Quote: Tlauicol
            - not in the eyebrow but in the eye

            what so pleased?
            Quote: Tlauicol
            Minzag "Nusret" (365 tons) drowned three battleships, disabled a linear cr-r

            May he win the whole war. And we will see
            Quote: Tlauicol
            New Jersey allegedly killed 172 Vietnamese, firing 6200 main battery shells

            How many Syrians were killed by pilots shot down over the Bekaa Valley in 1983?
            Quote: Tlauicol
            Liner "Queen Mary" during the war, transported 1 soldiers and officers.

            Speed> 30 knots DURING THE WHOLE TRANSITION
            The German raiders by that time were gone
            In the air - the dominance of the allies
            German U-bot is not capable of attacking such targets
            Quote: Tlauicol
            the liner cut in half the light cr-curacao (and here they poke damage from the tanker destroyer Arly Burke / Porter

            We look at the size and age of this "cruiser"
            As well as collision speeds
            Quote: Tlauicol
            Atomic cr-r "Peter the Great" (25 tons) - also captured a boat with pirates

            Many enemies sunk 10 Amerian Nimitz
            1. tlauicol
              tlauicol 8 February 2014 18: 33
              0
              Tirpitz and Yamato won the war? It may have drowned three armadillo, at least for two?
        2. Santa Fe
          Santa Fe 8 February 2014 17: 04
          0
          Quote: Tlauicol
          The spirit of the nation is built on victories.

          Varangian?
          Brest Fortress?
          Surrender of Moscow to 1812?
  • avt
    avt 7 February 2014 10: 10
    +1
    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
    Ships were built, participated in combat operations, died heroically in the conditions of the numerical superiority of the enemy - what else do you want from them?

    NO!!! In no case ! We will agree that the aircraft carriers, in spite of the most serious damage and fires, remained afloat during that war, moreover, they performed the Flying Dutchman and achieved it with their own. laughing
    1. Santa Fe
      Santa Fe 7 February 2014 20: 38
      0
      Quote: avt
      aircraft carriers and that war, despite serious damage and fires

      To stay afloat without damaging the underwater part of the hull is not a lot of intelligence.

      Another question is that sometimes one bomb was enough to turn a weakly protected ship into flaming ruins, with a complete loss of course, combat effectiveness - and the subsequent destruction of their own escort by destroyers
      1. tlauicol
        tlauicol 8 February 2014 08: 26
        0
        This is not syphilis - it is the Germans who are trying to reanimate the battleship Gneisenau.

        Someone may call him a heavy cruiser, but at least light - from this his armor will not become thinner than Tirpitz. One 450kg bomb turns it into ruins, 112 corpses, the ship is out of order FOREVER.
        The Scharnhorst of the same type, a little earlier from a height of 3-3,5 km, was pierced by three 450kg bombs through - they all came out through the bottom without exploding! Flooding of GK cellars, 3000 tons of water, broken tanks, darn bottoms, replacement of 200 km of power cables and CMS cables. (Falklands, ay) -
        They say that a certain Antelope died from the explosion of a 450kg bomb? Yeah, only she did not stand at the pier, was 12 times smaller and had an armored deck 130-150mm thinner, and a side 350mm - i.e. actually had no armor at all. I would like to see the twin brothers stomp 12000 miles from the Falklands in the stormy Atlantic, getting 12 bombs! Yes, even after received 3 unexploded, when water reaches the portholes, and fuel flows through holes. Could Gneisenau have reversed?
        In April of the 44th, the same bomb (dropped, however, from a low altitude) pierced the Tirpitz armored decks, went deep down, de-energized the bow towers of the Civil Code and also did not explode! Who knows, maybe the fate of Gneisenau was waiting for Tirpitz?
        1. Santa Fe
          Santa Fe 8 February 2014 17: 34
          0
          Quote: Tlauicol
          the ship is out of order FOREVER.

          Do not exaggerate. Germany didn’t have enough forces to restore it - in 1942 there were things and more important, greetings from Volgograd

          By the way, Gneisenau recaptured its value - together with Scharnhort they sank Glories. captured 11 ships, shook the nerves of the Angles
          Quote: Tlauicol
          In April 44 the same bomb

          Not the same. 726 kilo dropped from high altitude
          And this happened already in August 1944.
          Quote: Tlauicol
          They say that a certain Antelope died from the explosion of 450kg bomb?

          discharge height - several tens of meters
          1. tlauicol
            tlauicol 8 February 2014 17: 47
            0
            (C) "Not the same. 726 kilos, dropped from a great height
            And this happened already in August 1944 "- it doesn't matter when. And the WG and T decks are equally armored - what, 450kg did not pierce W? 726 kilos like Kars and asked - up to two tons and uncontrollable. And without accelerators, otherwise it could be dropped lower - as you like

            Well, would Sh and G come from under the Falklands?
            1. Santa Fe
              Santa Fe 8 February 2014 18: 14
              0
              Quote: Tlauicol
              it doesn’t matter when.

              The bottom line is that in April the tirpitsa was bombed from a low-flying flight - even 726 kg was not taken
              Quote: Tlauicol
              450kg didn’t pierce W through?

              And only produced on the day of July 24 from height 3000-3700 m the attack of 15 "Halifax", armed with 227-kg high-explosive and 454-kg armor-piercing bombs (according to other sources, the first were semi-armor-piercing, and the second weighed 908 kg), gave the result.

              3 454 kg and 2 227 kg bombs, from a great height. Result - 2 killed, 15 wounded
              roll and trim corrected pretty quickly. Steam in boilers was raised altogether in record time. The draft remained a meter greater, but by 19: 30 the ship was able to go to Brest, developing a speed of 25 knots.
              Quote: Tlauicol
              and without accelerators

              Then it will not be 454 (according to other 908 data) kg

              And I doubt that any accelerators helped the Aargs when bombing on a shaver. Bombs will not pick up speed, pilots will not have time to aim
              1. tlauicol
                tlauicol 8 February 2014 18: 41
                0
                First topmast bombing, then accelerator bombs or 750 kg bombs on a defenseless ship throwing corpses of anti-aircraft gunners overboard
                1. Santa Fe
                  Santa Fe 8 February 2014 18: 51
                  0
                  Args would not have enough time or planes for such an attack scheme
                  And there were no such bombs
                  Quote: Tlauicol
                  throwing overboard corpses of anti-aircraft gunners

                  why exactly the anti-aircraft gunners?
                  1. tlauicol
                    tlauicol 9 February 2014 05: 44
                    0
                    Well, the Britons didn’t have a battleship.

                    why anti-aircraft gunners? well, let them get charred on the deck, maybe they’ll throw off a wave
          2. tlauicol
            tlauicol 8 February 2014 18: 38
            0
            I do not exaggerate: one 450kg bomb against 40 battleship = 000 corpses, a minimum of 112 years for the restoration (according to German optimists) of a ship wrecked near the berth wall and not in the stormy sea
            1. Santa Fe
              Santa Fe 8 February 2014 18: 48
              0
              Quote: Tlauicol
              one 450kg bomb against the 40 000 battleship

              Reset from high altitude + a rare combination of circumstances (getting into the open hole of the ventilation system)
              Quote: Tlauicol
              2 of the year according to forecasts of German optimists

              rearmament "Gneisenau" with six 380-mm guns instead of nine 283-mm. Such a replacement was planned earlier, but the outbreak of the war prevented, as well as the resulting overload, accompanied by a decrease in the side height and an increase in the trim on the bow, if the bow of the hull was not subjected to a decisive alteration. But now, with damage to the bow, the situation has changed. Calculations have shown that with an appropriate lengthening of the nose, rearmament will not affect the draft and differential in any way. More detailed studies of the rearmament of the Gneisenau with six 380-mm 52-caliber guns, carried out during 1942, showed the following:

              - it is necessary to significantly increase the power of the power grid;
              - it is necessary to reinforce the barbets of the main caliber towers;
              - new towers installed on existing barbets still need to be designed and manufactured;
              - should change the supply system of ammunition and artillery fire control;
              - to obtain an additional margin of buoyancy and displacement of the center of buoyancy to the nose the housing must be lengthened.
              1. tlauicol
                tlauicol 9 February 2014 05: 47
                0
                lucky as with a bomb, ah! coincidence - Let the loser cry! and rejoices that stood at the pier
                it is significant in the damage of T W and D that the armor did not help. although it was almost half the weight
  • Nexus 6
    Nexus 6 7 February 2014 17: 03
    +1
    Hooray !! We’ll die to the last !!!

    Their contribution when participating in operations? For what purposes fired guns GK Musashi? For aircraft, special shells, in its last hour, the effectiveness is zero.

    When did the Yankees know their true size and caliber GK - 460 mm? After the war, lifting up the surviving documentation and interrogating eyewitnesses.
    The Yankees themselves admit that if they knew the true parameters of Yamato and Musashi, then they would have to act and plan operations with an "eye" and a great effort.
    "Due to" secrecy, the Japanese did not even implement the "Fleet in beeing" concept.

    The prevailing opinion is that the survivability of Yamato and Musashi was quite mediocre. There are many questions, in particular, to the design of the PTZ. She, when hit by torpedoes, could break through the main body, instead of "dispersing" the impact. Etc. etc.
  • Pilat2009
    Pilat2009 7 February 2014 17: 06
    +1
    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
    Ships were built, participated in combat operations, died heroically in the conditions of the numerical superiority of the enemy - what else do you want from them?

    I wish they drowned someone, like Bismarck
    1. Santa Fe
      Santa Fe 7 February 2014 20: 36
      0
      Quote: Pilat2009
      I wish they drowned someone, like Bismarck

      Too uneven conditions on the theater

      Forces allocated by the US Navy for the sinking of the Yamato: 8 aircraft carriers from the 58th formation.

      drums "Hornet", "Essex", "Bennington", "Bunker Hill" and "Hancock";
      light Bellow Wood, San Jacinto and Bataan.
      386 aircraft prepared for attack on their decks

      In case the aircraft could not take off due to weather conditions, Admiral Spruence ordered six battleships to prepare for battle: Missouri, New Jersey, Massachusetts, South Dakota, Indiana, Wisconsin at support of 5 heavy and two battle cruisers ("Alaska" and "Guam")

      + complete loss of stealth: B-29 scouts were constantly watching over the base and preparations for the last Yamato campaign; American submarines spotted the exact time of the Yamato exit
      1. Pilat2009
        Pilat2009 7 February 2014 20: 52
        0
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        total loss of stealth:

        they turned out to be worthless. it was better to build aircraft carriers. the saying was true
        1. Santa Fe
          Santa Fe 7 February 2014 21: 15
          0
          Quote: Pilat2009
          they turned out to be useless. it was better to build aircraft carriers.

          Could this have changed anything in the battle with the EIGHT Amerian aircraft carriers?
          1. Pilat2009
            Pilat2009 7 February 2014 22: 21
            0
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            Could this have changed anything in the battle with the EIGHT Amerian aircraft carriers?

            If you count 50-60 airplanes with PREPARED Midway level pilots, why not? Yamato walked without any cover and obviously one way, lack of fuel. If you follow the tactics of the carrier connections, then the one who previously detected the enemy defeated. Midway’s death is fatal nepruha, akin to the fate of the Russo-Japanese war. And if there were not 4 but 8 aircraft carriers? Errors in the tactics of releasing relatively small groups did not allow an effective attack. Well, the pilots had to prepare a shift. No, America would have won, of course, there is no reason to doubt but the effectiveness of warfare can be doubted
            1. Santa Fe
              Santa Fe 7 February 2014 23: 15
              +2
              Quote: Pilat2009
              and clearly one way

              This was Ten-Go's plan of operation. "Yamato" was supposed to run aground off the coast of Okinawa and turn into an impregnable artillery battery

              That would be a BIG problem for the Yankees - from that moment on, torpedoes would cease to act, and Yamato sneezed on ordinary bombs
              Quote: Pilat2009
              If you count on 50-60 aircraft with trained pilots

              1. against almost xnumx yankee aircraft?
              2. on outdated aircraft? !! (By the end of the war, Zero was inferior to Hellket and Corsair in all performance characteristics)
              3. WHERE do Japan have trained pilots in the 1945 year ?? All veterans are dead, newcomers to cook - no fuel
              4. what is the meaning of such an operation? Yamato - went with the goal of becoming a well-fortified battery and disrupting (delaying) the Amer landing on Okinawa
              Quote: Pilat2009
              And if there weren’t 4 but 8 aircraft carriers?

              In a year, the Japanese would be kicked out of Midway, and in a couple of years, Japan would surrender

              The Yankees built the 151 aircraft carrier during the war years, of which 30 percussion. 10 battleships and 850 destroyers. What else is there to argue about?
              Quote: Pilat2009
              If you follow the tactics of avinos compounds, then the one who previously discovered the enemy won

              The Yankees at Midway made it easier - they hacked the Japanese JN-25 code and knew everything about the enemy's plans - the exact time, place, composition of forces
              1. Kars
                Kars 7 February 2014 23: 20
                +1
                Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                That was the operation plan

                Something that reminds me. Only the roles have changed))))
                1. Santa Fe
                  Santa Fe 8 February 2014 01: 41
                  0
                  Quote: Kars
                  Something that reminds me. Only the roles have changed)

                  agree, this point of view is much more fun than the previous

                  Plowed maneuvering field
            2. Santa Fe
              Santa Fe 7 February 2014 23: 23
              0
              Quote: Pilat2009
              and 8 aircraft carriers?

              By the way, where did you get that 8?

              Do you think there is a linear dependence of the cost / complexity of the building on the displacement? Compare the length of Yamato and, for example, the aircraft carrier Shokaku wink
              1. Pilat2009
                Pilat2009 8 February 2014 00: 20
                0
                Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                Compare the length of Yamato and, for example, the aircraft carrier Shokaku

                take the displacement of hiru and calculate how much could be built instead of two monsters
                1. Santa Fe
                  Santa Fe 8 February 2014 01: 36
                  0
                  Quote: Pilat2009
                  take a displacement hiru

                  And what will it give?

                  It is better to check out their dimensions, power of the power plant, the number of crew, fuel consumption, the cost of aircraft of the air group, the required number of gasoline for training pilots, etc. interesting things
                  Quote: Pilat2009
                  and count how many could be built instead of two monsters

                  Two Hiru instead of each battleship. With half empty decks

                  And they will die from the first bomb or torpedo, as their comrades Kaga, Soryu and Taiho did
                  1. tlauicol
                    tlauicol 8 February 2014 07: 59
                    0
                    some of the Japanese comrades died under the fire of light cruisers, another exploded from a 25kg shell (Buagaga), a third bomb, the fourth bomb didn’t hit at all - but it exploded anyway (fire). Well, okay, we’ll write everything off to torpedo tubes.
                    What about Aoba and Kinugasa? One 227kg bomb from a small height - and both cruisers are in a coma. Another 450kg bomb under one fly and both are drowning. Okay, Aoba, battered in battle, and Kinugasa, who is part of the squadron on the high seas, is 42 years old? Penetrated through the entire add-on to the holds, counter-flooding does not help
                    1. Santa Fe
                      Santa Fe 8 February 2014 17: 39
                      0
                      Quote: Tlauicol
                      Well, okay, we’ll write everything off to torpedo tubes.

                      Well, how did you like
                      Quote: Tlauicol
                      What about Aoba and Kinugasa?

                      In no way
                      Washington bits, deck 30 mm
                    2. tlauicol
                      tlauicol 8 February 2014 18: 31
                      0
                      armored stubs are three and a half times larger than the armless antilope
                    3. Santa Fe
                      Santa Fe 8 February 2014 18: 40
                      0
                      Quote: Tlauicol
                      armored stubs are three and a half times larger than the armless antilope

                      What does it matter in the absence of armor? They will pierce the ship anywhere, then everything depends on luck

                      On the morning of November 14, Japanese ships were attacked south of the New Georgia Islands by aircraft from the aircraft carrier Enterprise. At 09.15 the cruiser was hit by a 227 kg bomb dropped by Lieutenant Robert Gibson of the VB-3 Squadron, a Dontless (SBD-10) aircraft. The bomb, destroying the bow of the bridge near the installations of 13-mm machine guns, penetrated deep into the ship and exploded on the lower deck under the waterline, which led to large flooding and a roll to the port side. The explosion killed the commander, Captain 1st Rank Macao Sawa (in office since August 20, 1941) and a senior officer. A torpedo officer took command of the ship. Counter-flooding from the starboard side made it possible to temporarily straighten the cruiser, but the roll soon increased to 7 °. The 09.50 close gap 454-kg bombs, dropped by "Dontless" from the VS-10 squadron (lead captain 3rd rank James Lee) near the stern, caused an explosion of aviation gasoline tanks, disabled the steering gear and increased flooding. Two hours later, despite all the efforts of the crew to take control of the flooding, "Kinugasa" capsized on the port side and sank
                    4. tlauicol
                      tlauicol 8 February 2014 18: 49
                      0
                      in the absence of armor on TKr?
                      I would say: what does the thickness of the armor matter if it is still full of unprotected holes?
                    5. Santa Fe
                      Santa Fe 8 February 2014 18: 54
                      0
                      Quote: Tlauicol
                      in the absence of armor on TKr?

                      Etozh Washington
                      Quote: Tlauicol
                      what does the thickness of the armor matter if it is still full of unprotected holes?

                      Squadron of Kurita. 700 sorties to Tirpitz. Xnumx Shots at Bismarck

                      The design of the ships was constantly improved, what rolled from Gneisenau and the Dreadnoughts will not ride from Iowa
                    6. tlauicol
                      tlauicol 9 February 2014 05: 50
                      0
                      and ammunition and delivery vehicles remained in the 19th century? FritzX with Iowa would be nice to ride
                    7. Santa Fe
                      Santa Fe 9 February 2014 14: 59
                      0
                      Quote: Tlauicol
                      FritzX with Iowa would be nice to ride

                      Not every plane will lift Fritz. A special carrier was required for it.

                      And do not forget, this rare and exotic "wunderwaffe" was ahead of its time by 5 years. By the end of the 40s, RCR (Boston) appeared, and the planes with Fritz turned into an excellent target
                    8. tlauicol
                      tlauicol 9 February 2014 16: 50
                      0
                      is special media harder than building a battleship? the answer is obvious

                      by the end of the 50s, probably? and most importantly, that torpedoes disappeared or mines?
                    9. Santa Fe
                      Santa Fe 9 February 2014 18: 57
                      0
                      Quote: Tlauicol
                      is special media harder than building a battleship?

                      Most developed countries had battleships.
                      Fritz-X and its carrier - only in one Germany. Together with the SAM Wasserfall)))

                      With the advent of the SAM, Fritz loses its meaning
                      Quote: Tlauicol
                      by the end of 50x, probably?

                      http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lark
                      Bumblebee program - somewhat slowed down with the end of the war, but by the end of the 40's there were already working samples of Terriers

                      By the end of the 50's, air defense systems were massively
                      Quote: Tlauicol
                      and most importantly, that torpedoes disappeared or mines?

                      torpedoes against NK - completely disappeared from the arsenal of jet aircraft

                      Mina is an insidious thing, but the chance to encounter her is not so great. Yes, and it’s impossible to sink a battleship like Vengard 1 mine
  • Andrey77
    Andrey77 9 February 2014 20: 23
    0
    I will subscribe to every word. The author of the article - write in hieroglyphics an old Japanese proverb.
  • Moore
    Moore 7 February 2014 10: 12
    +1
    Maybe the point is also that the Yamato and Musashi gasoline ate so much that they were kept only for “emergencies”?
    IMHO.
  • Jedi
    Jedi 7 February 2014 12: 26
    +1
    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
    When the Yankees learned their true size and caliber GK - 460 mm - oo @ boiled over boiling water

    Well, everything is clear ... then the yawning Americans with fear sent the entire Japanese Navy to the bottom. interesting, but our brave warlords in a fit of fearlessness drowned a lot of enemy aircraft carriers, battleships, cruisers, destroyers, submarines ... ???
    1. 0255
      0255 7 February 2014 13: 21
      +1
      if you're talking about the Second World War - what kind of aircraft carriers did the Germans have? On May 9, 1945, the Germans had only 1 aircraft carrier under construction. And the German fleet fought more with the British, with the Red Army more battles were fought on land.
  • avt
    avt 7 February 2014 16: 07
    0
    Quote: 0255
    On May 9, 1945, the Germans had only 1 aircraft carrier under construction.

    Actually, two, they lost the alteration from the cruiser, and one more in the thoughts from the transport.
    1. 0255
      0255 7 February 2014 17: 10
      0
      Quote: avt
      Quote: 0255
      On May 9, 1945, the Germans had only 1 aircraft carrier under construction.

      Actually, two, they lost the alteration from the cruiser, and one more in the thoughts from the transport.

      two so two.
  • Ivan Tarasov
    Ivan Tarasov 7 February 2014 16: 53
    +1
    Instead of useless super battleships, it was possible to build 41 aircraft carriers with a standard displacement of 4 tons by the year 42, forming a powerful aircraft carrier strike force numbering 000 aircraft.
    1. ilea123456
      ilea123456 7 February 2014 19: 36
      0
      all the fault of the show off lol
  • Gremlin
    7 February 2014 22: 13
    0
    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN

    Oh really??

    Ships were built, participated in combat operations, died heroically in the conditions of the numerical superiority of the enemy - what else do you want from them?



    The ships, which are a masterpiece of engineering thought and designed by their very nature for linear squadron combat, but which did not participate in such battles until the end of the war, but were used on the "bump floor" (covering aircraft carrier formations, auxiliary artillery during infantry landings, etc.) did not reach their full potential. Yes they were built, yes they participated, yes heroically, but not there and in the wrong role for which they were created.
  • xomaNN
    xomaNN 7 February 2014 23: 19
    0
    And the swing that was notable with the LK "Shinano" from the Japanese. Silenok was really not enough for a naval war. am
  • dv-v
    dv-v 9 February 2014 08: 43
    0
    extremely poor quality material -
    Akagi remade from battlecruiser
    kakga from the battleship.
    Shinano did not have such opportunities and prospects both structurally and economically.
    Kure base is located on the same east coast of Honshu Island, just south. those. It’s just in a greater reach for the startegical aviation of the United States - simply due to the fact that yokosuka was not only a military aviation company, there is Tokyo nearby, but also higher risks. + Yamato was built in the chickens.

    Well, in general, the material contains a lot of all kinds of blunders.
    1. Andrey77
      Andrey77 9 February 2014 20: 26
      0
      There are pros on the ships here - SWEET_SIXTEEN. The article is, to say the least, weak.