Military Review

The tale of outstanding intrigue. On a detective with the names of authentic historical figures

42
The tale of outstanding intrigue. On a detective with the names of authentic historical figures

Whether in Gorbachev's perestroika, or at all in the Khrushchev thaw — I don’t even remember now, after years of prescription, I learned: the brave writer Pilnyak in Story of the Unsettled Moon exposed one of the innumerable many crimes of Stalin’s tyrrrrha ™ Stalin’s murder of a great red killing of the great red crime of Stalin’s murder of the great red Stalin’s murder of the great red Tatar, killing a great red crime Stalin’s Stalin’s murder of the great red moon Stalin’s death surgery - and for this revelation he himself was killed in the framework of illegal mass repressions. I read the story itself at the turn of the millennium: there are no direct accusations (it could not have appeared in Soviet times, when any published, but never proven suspicions were considered slander and punished more severely than today), but the hints are completely transparent and pretty convincing.


To my shame, only recently - years 5 – 7 ago - I thought: where did Boris Andreyevich Vogau come from (Pilnyak is a pseudonym: as Wikipedia suggests, he lived in a village mostly engaged in forestry - in local dialect of woodcutters they were called pilnyk, development pilnyankami) learned about the evil idea? Surely one of the surgeons shared with him the technical subtleties of no less villainous implementation? Or maybe the anesthesiologist, over a glass of tea, told how he selected the composition of the mixture of chloroform with ether (there were no other means of general anesthesia at that time), guaranteed to kill the hero of the civil war?

Mikhail Vasilyevich Frunze really died 1925.10.31 after surgery for stomach ulcers. The official version - blood poisoning - is at least doubtful: the rules of surgical antiseptics were developed half a century earlier and strictly followed in almost all hospitals of the world, and even in places where government members were treated, even more so. It seems that the immediately spread rumor is true: the heart of the conqueror of the White Guard Crimea and the predatory Central Asia stopped from the effects of chloroform - the individual intolerance of drugs even now cannot recognize in advance and hope only to improve the methods of resuscitation, and then they had no idea about it at all.

The assumption of deliberate murder arose due to the fact that during the operation it turned out that the ulcer had already healed. Surgical intervention turned out to be unnecessary: ​​the continuation of conservative measures like a diet would be enough. But the then medical technology was not yet so sensitive as to unequivocally distinguish the scar from the active — albeit temporarily silent — ulcers. Therefore, Frunze himself repeatedly wrote to his wife, Sophia Alekseevna Popova (she was in Yalta when he went to the hospital, and he found it impossible to return her from treatment - she died as early as next year) - about her desire to operate and close the question, and not wondering if the time bomb will work in the stomach.

It turns out that death is explained only by an inevitable accident in medicine, but the writer simply, as they say now, pinned something wrong?

Hardly. The story appeared in the ninth year of Soviet power, when everyone in the country already understood: one must either filter the market or be responsible for it. Vogau by that time had time to participate in many political disputes, abundant in the then writing world. He was repeatedly beaten with weighty arguments, and he himself answered in the same way. If we ventured to get into the games at the highest level (and Frunze 1924.06.02 became a candidate member of the political bureau of the Central Committee, that is, one of about a dozen most important people in the country: the accused Iosif Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili was a member of the same political bureau with 1919.03.25, that is, since its inception, and for the first time got into the politburo, temporarily created to lead an armed uprising, 1917.10.23), then just hoping for complete personal security. That is, speaking again in modern language, he had a reliable roof.

So, let us try to believe: if not the death of Frunze itself, then at least Vogau's story is part of some serious intention. And we will try to decipher it, relying on the precepts of the masters of the detective and conspiracy.

Among the key questions of these genres is the motive of the act. They also taught in Rome: id fecit cui prodest - he did it to whom it is profitable. Unreasonable maniacry happens incomparably less often of a mercenary plot.

True, from a difficult hand and a crooked language of Nikita Sergeevich Khrushchev, non-habitual handshakes are supposed to be considered: Stalin’s tyrrrrran ™ Stalin was just a maniac, exterminating people just to taste and discretion, without any particular reason, not to mention the reason. But the successor himself called from his point of view a motive for the actions of the predecessor quite well-founded: that he was so afraid for his power that he destroyed anyone who could replace him even in the distant future.

In this sense, Frunze could hardly pose even the slightest threat to Dzhugashvili. Of course, he was a prominent party and military leader. He led, in particular, the crushing of Kolchak, Wrangel, the Emir of Bukhara, and after the Civil War - a deep reform of the armed forces. But Dzhugashvili himself also had enough military merit. Tsaritsyn’s defense, a key transportation hub for the supply of grain to the center of Russia from the North Caucasus, he managed almost a year, and very successfully: the city fell only a few months after being the only stories People's Commissar for Nationalities Affairs (1917.11.08 – 1923.07.07) and the Second People's Commissar of State Control (1919.03.30 – 1920.02.07 - then he became the first People’s Commissar for Workers 'and Peasants' Inspection) and so forth, and so on and so forth ... transferred to another — at that moment no less important is the front of civil war. In the Polish 1920 campaign, he served as commissar of the Southwestern Front (under the front commander Alexander Ilyich Yegorov - colonel of the Russian imperial army, and later one of the first five marshals of the Soviet Union) and did not support the plan of the commander of the Western front, Mikhail Nikolayevich Tukhachevsky (in the imperial the second lieutenant’s time, also one of the first marshal’s fives, does not take into account the problems of troop supply (almost the entire World War I Tukhachevsky was in German captivity, so he did not nodded) and by virtue of this naturally ended in failure. On the part of the party, however, the merits of Dzhugashvili were incontestably higher than the merits of Frunze.

True, in the party of that time they were arguing, not paying special attention to the ranks, titles and experience. But not a single document, not a single memoir has preserved any traces of disputes between Dzhugashvili and Frunze. On the contrary: in the few cases where they participated in the same political discussion, both were on the same side. Of course, the bloody gebnya could eat all the evidence of contradictions. But even Khrushchev himself was not honored to write at least one plausible disagreement in his memoirs. Meanwhile, with many other members and candidate members of the politburo, Dzhugashvili often argued for a long time. Well, if you organize a medical murder, then some of them. Opportunities enough: they had the disease worse stomach ulcers.

So, Joseph Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili is hardly the organizer of the intrigues around Mikhail Vasilyevich Frunze: he has no reason for this, or at least a reason. But in eliminating the second people's commissar for military and maritime affairs (with 1925.01.25) and the second chairman of the revolutionary military council (with 1925.01.26), the first owner of these posts, Leib Davidovich Bronstein, was hardly interested.

Strictly speaking, the chronology of his military career is multistage. RVS he headed with 1918.09.06. NKVMD - with 1923.07.06. Before that - 1918.03.14 - became the second - after Nikolai Ilyich Podvoisky - people's commissary for military affairs. The naval forces of the country before him had time to guide (on Wikipedia, with the conversion of Julian dates to Gregorian): Pavel Efimovich Dybenko 1917.11.08 – 1918.03.15; Modest Vasilyevich Ivanov 1917.11.21 – 1918.02.08; Vasily Mikhailovich Altfater 1918.04.10 – 1919.01.22; Evgeny Andreevich Berens 1919.04.24 – 1920.02.05; Alexander Vasilyevich Nemitts 1920.02.05 – 1921.11.22; Eduard Samuilovich Pantserzhansky 1921.11.22 – 1924.12.09.

But these details then hardly interested anyone. It was Bronstein, not Podvoisky, who organized the transformation of the scattered Red Guard units into the Workers 'and Peasants' Red Army. It was Bronstein who achieved army discipline by all means - from ardent speeches to the execution of every tenth, borrowed from the ancient Roman experience, in the ranks of a guilty military unit. It was Bronstein who attracted more than half of the officers and generals of the imperial period to the new armed forces and ensured the loyalty of most of them to the hostage-giving of relatives and friends.

By the way, Bronstein sharply scolded Dzhugashvili during the defense of Tsaritsyn just for the fact that a large conspiracy of military experts was uncovered in the city: they complained to Moscow that a considerable part of those arrested were not involved in intrigues. This was finally confirmed by the investigation carried out on the orders of Dzhugashvili as thoroughly as possible at the height of the war. But even before the majority of those arrested had returned to freedom, the conflict had time to spill out not only at the meeting table of the political bureau, but also at the rostrum of the party congress. From the end of 1980, anti-Soviet propagandists diligently advertise everything that Bronstein said about Dzhugashvili, and even fantasize about Tsaritsyn to the best of their own ignorance of military affairs and national history.

Nowadays, few people remember that Pavel G. Gorinstein in the chorus of the song “The White Army, the Black Baron” to the music of Samuel Yakovlevich Pokrass did not originally write

So let the Red

squeezes powerfully

your callous bayonet

and we all should

uncontrollably

go to the last mortal combat!

а

So let the Red

squeezes powerfully

your bayonet with a callused hand!

With squad naval

Comrade Trotsky

lead us to the final battle.


This fame was well deserved. Of course, an extensive historical experience is convincing: if Leib Davidovich was in the right place at the right time, the revolution would most likely have other military leaders, not worse (and perhaps even better - not to check now). But this one did fine.

Alas, no past merits redeem future sins. The creator of the victorious army was removed from its leadership three years after the end of the Civil War, not at all because the other members of the Politbureau envied his glory. It was just that in peacetime, difficulties came to the fore that had no special significance in the face of a common formidable enemy.

Long before the revolution, Leib Davidovich became famous for throwing around the whole wide range of variations on the theme of social democracy. His constant opponent Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov, who was reputed to be a swagger among revolutionaries (as Mendel Crick of Babel was known as a bastard among the bindyuzhnik), called him a political prostitute precisely for the scope of these throwings.

What is funny is that no matter where Bronstein throws, he was able to substantiate another turn in brilliantly revolutionary texts, proving that just the chosen direction allows achieving the victory of the proletarian cause in the shortest possible time. Therefore, those who wanted everything were always accumulated around him at once and at any cost (as I have already said more than once, any price is always paid from someone else’s pocket). Even after its elimination of 1940.08.21, his ideas still attract people of just such a warehouse. In particular, the new conservatives, who determined the policies of the United States of America under both Bush’s presidents and who were capable of acting exclusively in sorts, were convinced Trotskyists in their youth.

I note that it was necessary to kill Leib Davidovich because with the start of the Second World War he became a natural candidate for the post of head of government in exile — an indispensable tool of political pressure (during the war for distancing the Finnish border from Leningrad, the formation of a government in Terioki Of the Finnish Democratic Republic under the leadership of Otto Wilhelmovich Kuusinen). He was first warned. 1940.05.24, a group of veterans of the Spanish Civil War (where the Trotskyists tried several times to seize power in the course of hostilities, which infuriated the rest of the Republicans pretty badly), led by then-renowned artist José de Jesus (he signed “David”), Alfaro Siqueiros Aliparo Siqueiros broke the job Bronstein House in Coyoacan - a suburb of Mexico City. Experienced fighters rushed into the bedroom, riddled the machine guns with walls and cabinets, but didn’t shoot a single bullet under the bed where Bronstein and his wife Natalia Ivanovna Sedova and one of their grandchildren hid. He did not seem to heed the warning: intrigues with his participation continued until his death.

If Leib Davidovich was so popular and influential through 11 years after his expulsion from the USSR, one can imagine what his weight was right after the Civil War, and especially in the armed forces. Each word of the highest military leader of the country was perceived as a direct guide to action. And the words from it were about the same as in the midst of the war itself.

At the dawn of Soviet power, all the predictions of Karl Heinrikhovich Marx and Friedrich Friedrichovich Engels were taken very seriously. In particular, they sincerely believed: in a globalized (even then, this concept was fashionable) world, conditions for revolution ripen everywhere at the same time. The revolutionary outbreak in backward Russia was perceived as the first spark of a global fire. The warriors went into battle under the slogans of the unity of the proletariat and the inevitability of universal happiness. But the war ended, and the world revolution never happened. I had to decide what to do next.

According to Marxist theory, the socialist revolution cannot win only in one country: the world of capital will unite against it and sooner or later crush it. This prediction seems to have come true in the era of perestroika. But then there was a very unfavorable confluence of many external and internal circumstances for us. His detailed analysis has been going on for many years, and it seems that even then it was possible to save both the country and socialism. The theory points to a serious threat, but not an imminent collapse.

At the same time, the danger of a worldwide attack was regarded as highly relevant. Not to mention anything else, several Soviet republics in Germany were crushed by the central government (then Defense Minister Social Democrat Gustav Karlovich Noske went down in history with the words "Perhaps someone should be a bloody dog! I’m not afraid of responsibility") and the Hungarian Soviet Republic was crushed by the joint intervention of its neighbors, Romania and Czechoslovakia, by decision of the Entente Council.

Bronstein suggested the simplest way out. The Soviet republics in neighboring countries were crushed because we could not support them on time. So, we must rather break through there - and the people will once again rebel against the oppressors. The revolution, supported by the troops, will be truly global. And so that the Entente could not intervene - it is necessary to hit its weak places. India is not far away, relations with Afghanistan are not bad (the British invaded there more than once, so the local tribes will help anyone against Britain) - we must begin with a campaign there.

Colleagues looked at the case more realistically. The combat power of the USSR was shown by the failure of the Polish campaign (despite the fact that the previous victory of the Poles over the Russians happened in the 17th century), the unpunished capture of Bessarabia by Romania and the regular invasions of Finns into Karelia. Our weakness, by the way, persisted for a long time: until the end of the 1920s, Poland was considered a serious threat to the USSR, and until the middle of the 1930s all interested parties were considered to be a dangerous alliance between Poland and Romania for us. This means that military exploits should be postponed for the distant future, but for now look for other options. Even the chairman of the executive committee of the Communist International Ovsey Gershon Aronovich Radomyslsky - Grigory Yevseyevich Zinoviev - did not consider it possible to export the revolution on bayonets: he preferred to cultivate the communist parties, and if necessary, support the uprisings prepared by them, but not intervene openly, in order not to bring to obvious conflicts.

The world, exhausted by the First World War, was not eager to start new battles - therefore, during the Civil War, foreign contingents on our territory turned out to be very small and left at the very first signs of disobedience. But Bronstein's appeals for expansion could change public opinion: even those who strongly oppose an attack on others are ready to defend themselves from an external threat. He became dangerous for the country.


Meanwhile, in the command of the armed forces the words of the head of these forces found a very sympathetic response. Winners generally tend to overestimate their capabilities. In this case, the commanders were also convinced of the magic power of progressive ideas. As the French, inspired by the promise of freedom, equality and fraternity, smashed the whole of Europe at the turn of the 18th –19th centuries, so were the Red Army men, inspired by the upcoming work for themselves, without exploiters, easily crushed by the non-opposition members opposing them device of the country only through the constituent assembly and did not recognize anyone the right to predetermine its result). The commanders viewed the misfire in Poland as an annoying coincidence caused by the inexperience of the leader of the Western Front. And they were sure: now there is enough experience. And they often underestimated the role of economic resources. Even those who went through 1915's year-long famine believed that now, after the development of the military industry in 1916, everything needed to be found for victory.

In 1937 – 8, high-ranking military officers under investigation were most often accused of Trotskyism. Formally, it was right: almost all of them made a key part of his career under the command of Bronstein, he picked them up and threw them, executed and pardoned them.

Execution, by the way, is often literally. Thus, the creator and commander of the Second Cavalry Army, Philip Kuzmich Mironov, was killed by the sentry in the courtyard of Butyrka prison, where he was obviously accused of a false accusation, and many historians believe that it was Bronstein who ordered the extrajudicial execution.

But the words about the Trotskyism of the military are true and to the point. The desire to get everything at once and at any cost is natural in combat conditions. Therefore, the USSR military command inevitably caused Trotsky-style solutions — even when Leib Davidovich Bronstein himself did not support these decisions at all. At the same time, the specific situation does not always contribute to such a desire, and often the attempt to implement it turns out to be disastrous. Therefore, Trotskyism is dangerous for the country as a whole and its armed forces in particular.

Understandably, Brontein’s resignation caused discontent among top military leaders not only because Frunze took his place, which seemed to them not to be supreme, but only equal: with all his well-known successes during the Civil War, some other commanders made no less. It was also important that the style of activity of Frunze, already known for his tenure as Deputy Bronstein (with 1924.03.14) and part-time Chief of Staff of the Red Army and the Military Academy (since April 1924), was much less consistent with the wishes of his subordinates. Yes, and the military reform of Frunze, which included a tenfold reduction of the army (from five million, unbearable in peacetime, to half a million) and the transfer of a significant part of it to the militia format (with a three-month draft and subsequent monthly retraining every few years), infringed the interests of most of the command composition.

I can not unequivocally say that at least one of the heroes of the Civil War wanted the new people's Commissar to die. And it’s even more difficult to imagine that someone from the military - with all their weight in the society at that time - achieved treason from the doctors in the Hippocratic oath in order to bring this death closer. But when it happened, it was natural to intend to use it in the interests of the army - as many heroes understood these interests.

Mikhail Vasilyevich Frunze was replaced by 1925.11.06 Clement Yefremovich Voroshilov - later also one of the first five marshals, but at the time of the appointment, according to many of his subordinates, he was not a commander at all, but a commissar. True, Alexander Nikolaevich Linovsky (Pomorsky) in the "Far Eastern Song" to the music of Boris Andreevich Shikhov wrote:

We do not forget the steel and formidable power,

when the earth breathed destruction,

when Lugansk mechanic Voroshilov

drove the shelves over sloping fields.


And this is largely true. In March, 1918-th Voroshilov created volunteers from among the workers and led the First Lugansk Socialist Detachment, which defended Kharkov from the Germans. Then he commanded the Tsaritsyn Group of Forces (where he first collaborated with Dzhugashvili). I also visited other command posts. But still, the most famous part of his activities in the Civil War is associated with the First Cavalry Army: Semyon Mikhailovich Budyonny commanded it, and Voroshilov was a member of its Revolutionary Military Council.

In Russia - in contrast to many other great powers - the highest military leader was almost always a professional soldier. Even those who had been a student before the revolution, like Iona Emmanuilovich Yakir, or a turner, like Juozas Mikhailovich Vareikis, were considered to be subordinate to a political appointee. Naturally, one of the honored commanders could decide: if you compromise those who chose Voroshilov from all possible candidates, there will be hope for the return of the beloved by the military Bronstein.

To this day, the Russian intellectuals, finding at the first meeting between themselves mutual friends, usually joke: “not the world is small, but the stratum is narrow”. At the time of the events described, this stratum was still incomparably thinner. Boris Andreyevich Vogau undoubtedly repeatedly found himself in the same company with many warlords. So now it’s already impossible to guess which of them could prompt the popular writer with the idea of ​​the “Tale of the Moon that has not been extinguished.” But he himself could well not only be carried away by the desire to describe a plan comparable to medieval intrigues, but also believe a hint: if politicians are offended, the military will cover up. Yes, and really covered up: although the book was withdrawn from sale in a couple of days, the writer got off stormy arguments.

I do not exclude at all that the author found the experienced experience of interaction with the military to be pleasant, useful and worth repeating. Or maybe he was again used in 1930 in the dark again - without explaining to him the goals of another intrigue to which he was involved. But judging by the appearance of the story, the arrest of 1937.10.28 could have some grounds under it. And the fact that 1938.04.21, the Military Collegium of the USSR Supreme Court, sentenced him to death (and enforced the verdict then enforced the sentence on the same day) on charges not of conspiracy, but of spying for Japan, where he managed to go (and even wrote a book about the country “The Roots of the Japanese Sun”), can be explained by the reluctance of the authorities to show the full scope of contradictions between groups that hold different views on the expedient path of the country's movement: it’s much easier to talk about the evil plans of external enemies than to explain the reasons turning conscientious like-minded people into internal enemies.

All of the above, of course, just assumptions. But in my opinion, they are much more plausible than assumptions about the omnipotent intrigue, impassively sending to death a person who is not dangerous to him and innocent of anything, simply from the desire to destroy everyone who is no worse than himself.
Author:
Originator:
http://www.odnako.org/
42 comments
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  1. Ingvar 72
    Ingvar 72 7 February 2014 12: 35
    +20
    Wasserman fellow, an honest Jew. He does not hesitate to list his compatriots who held leading posts in the RSFSR in the 20s. Namely, in the 20s there was a peak of the genocide of the Russian people, and not in the 37th, as the liberal press has been trying to impose on us since the 90s. The article is a huge plus.
    1. Horst78
      Horst78 7 February 2014 17: 49
      +3
      I support, but I haven't finished reading the article sad after a working week did not pull wassat then I will read smile
    2. kris
      kris 7 February 2014 19: 09
      +1
      Quote: Ingvar 72
      honest jew

      laughing laughing laughing
      1. ty60
        ty60 7 February 2014 19: 50
        +7
        nothing ridiculous. a Jew until the last will be bargaining with you. but when they shake hands, everything. fulfill your obligations and you will not be thrown, unlike compatriots, alas! they are obligatory people.
      2. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 7 February 2014 20: 25
        +4
        Quote: kris
        honest jew

        There are anomalies. laughing
    3. Corsair5912
      Corsair5912 7 February 2014 19: 14
      +5
      Quote: Ingvar 72
      Asserman well done, honest Jew. She does not hesitate to list her compatriots who occupied leading posts in the RSFSR in the 20 years. Namely, in the 20 there was a peak in the genocide of the Russian people, and not in the 37, as the liberal press has been trying to impose on us from the 90. The article is a huge plus.

      Wasserman is not one of those Jews who were born in the USSR, but go to Israel to their homeland.
      In the 20 years there was no genocide of the Russian people, but there was a civil war in which the Russians fought with the Russians, the brother went to his brother.
      My grandfather was a revolutionary in 1906 who was sentenced to 10 years of hard labor and an eternal settlement in Siberia, from where he did not return, and his brother the priest was a staunch open enemy of the Soviet regime and was shot in Orel in 1938 by the sentence of the NKVD troika.
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 7 February 2014 20: 38
        0
        Quote: Corsair5912
        In the 20s there was no genocide of the Russian people, but there was a civil war,

        The civil war ended in 1920-21. And then there was genocide. Depossession, surplus appropriation, decossackization and much more. And the representatives of God's people distinguished themselves there.
        1. Basarev
          Basarev 7 February 2014 21: 55
          +1
          But they continue to do dirty tricks to this day. The nation did not like the frankness and honesty of the Russians.
          1. afdjhbn67
            afdjhbn67 8 February 2014 08: 12
            0
            yes, he is making fun of you, sticking out his Jewishness
          2. Bezz
            Bezz 8 February 2014 12: 41
            0
            Quote: Basarev
            and the honesty of the Russians.

            Especially such as Yakunin, Sechin, Shuvalov. Continue the list? Crooks are everywhere. But racism (anti-Semitism) is your own, it is advisable not to stick out.
        2. loginovich
          loginovich 8 February 2014 10: 06
          0
          How everything is neglected to steer the country and under socialism is a dangerous business
      2. Bezz
        Bezz 7 February 2014 22: 22
        +3
        Quote: Corsair5912
        My grandfather was a revolutionary in 1906 who was sentenced to 10 years of hard labor and an eternal settlement in Siberia, from where he did not return, and his brother the priest was a staunch open enemy of the Soviet regime and was shot in Orel in 1938 by the sentence of the NKVD troika.

        How old are you ?? !! It turns out that your father was born before 1906? And the grandfather was born no later than 1888. In Russia, even tsarist, youngsters were not tried. Although, remembering your comments on history, this is not surprising. Ten thousand years there, 20 thousand here - what's the difference ?!
        And the second mythical grandfather - how he lived to 1938. being an ardent open enemy of the Soviet regime and was shot in 1938 in Orel by the verdict of the NKVD troika.
    4. afdjhbn67
      afdjhbn67 8 February 2014 03: 03
      +4
      why do you have a Jew in the first place, just an intelligent person, and undoubtedly a patriot
    5. German
      German 8 February 2014 07: 19
      0
      Wasserman is a Jew .. well, so what? He is not f ... d (f..d not nationality, but character and upbringing!) I agree with a plus!
  2. svp67
    svp67 7 February 2014 17: 39
    +1
    "The water is dark in the clouds ..."
    1. 11111mail.ru
      11111mail.ru 7 February 2014 18: 53
      +3
      Quote: svp67
      "The water is dark in the clouds ..."

      If we have already undertaken to quote, then perhaps more accurately: "in the cloud". If there are differences, it is necessary to substantiate your undoubtedly wise thought.
  3. dr.star75
    dr.star75 7 February 2014 17: 48
    0
    Our "respect" to Wasserman. But we must not forget where the revolution comes from.
  4. Genur
    Genur 7 February 2014 18: 00
    +2
    Thank. The catalog compiled and put everything on the shelves. Use ...
  5. RUSS
    RUSS 7 February 2014 18: 08
    -22%
    Another "laundering" of Stalin, that very often such articles began to appear, for me all these Wasserman engineers are not authorities who do not inspire confidence in anyone, another game of "one gate". Duplicate articles "about myths" and about their "debunking". Wasserman is a dust-eater, but not a historian or analyst, an ordinary well-read person with charisma.
    1. old rocket man
      old rocket man 7 February 2014 19: 33
      +10
      Quote: RUSS
      Wasserman is a dust-eater, but not a historian or analyst, an ordinary well-read person with charisma.


      I don't know what charisma is, but I ask you not to express yourself about Wasserman! laughing
      1. German
        German 8 February 2014 07: 25
        0
        less often watch "Prisoner of the Caucasus" but otherwise agree laughing
    2. afdjhbn67
      afdjhbn67 8 February 2014 03: 25
      +1
      it's strange that you do not notice analysts in his reasoning ...
    3. loginovich
      loginovich 8 February 2014 10: 28
      +1
      The more I learn about democracy I become more and more Stalinist
    4. Slavapom
      Slavapom 8 February 2014 13: 14
      0
      apparently the so-called 'historian' M Solonin!? is the authority for you. if so, then you are clearly at the wrong address.
    5. The comment was deleted.
    6. old rocket man
      old rocket man 9 February 2014 00: 43
      0
      Quote: RUSS
      Wasserman Dust Eater


      ПЫлЕgulp = it is on Novoukrainsky-vacuum cleaner.
      You probably meant to say -polyglot? laughing
  6. Black
    Black 7 February 2014 18: 10
    +2
    Wasserman is such a Wasserman !!! Crumbled words like a cabbage chef into a vinaigrette. Masterly and damn entertaining. Well done.
    Whatever I would disagree with, then, in my opinion, not all nonsense should be elevated to the equivalent of Trotskyism.
  7. Roman 1977
    Roman 1977 7 February 2014 18: 10
    +14
    Somehow like this...

    Speech in the House of Commons W. Churchill:
    "I personally cannot feel anything other than the greatest admiration for this truly great man, the father of his country, who rules the fate of his country in times of peace and its victorious defender in times of war."


    Speech in the British Parliament W. Churchill:
    Russia was very lucky that when it was agonizing, it was headed by such a tough military leader. "This is an outstanding personality, suitable for harsh times. A man is inexhaustiblely brave, domineering, direct in actions and even rude in his statements ... However, he retained a sense of humor, which is very important for all people and nations, and especially for big people and great nations. Stalin also impressed me with his cold-blooded wisdom, in the complete absence of any illusions. "

    Alexander Ivanovich Pokryshkin:
    History once, as they say, will prove its point. I was raised by Stalin and I think that if we were led by weak people during the war, we would have lost the war. Only strength, mind helped to resist in such an environment. You did it. And they made a great contribution. We always appreciated you ...

    Adolf Gitler:
    “A community can be created and protected only by force. And it is not necessary, therefore, to condemn Charlemagne for creating by force a united state, which, in his opinion, was so necessary for the German people.
    And if Stalin in the past years applied the same methods to the Russian people that Charles the Great used to apply to the German people, then, given the then cultural level of the Russians, one should not curse him. Stalin also concluded for himself that the Russians need strong discipline and a strong state to unite them, if you want to provide a solid political foundation for the struggle for survival waged by all the peoples united in the USSR and help an individual achieve what he cannot achieve on his own for example, get medical attention.
    ... And it would be foolish to ridicule the Stakhanov movement. The armament of the Red Army is the best proof that with the help of this movement it was possible to achieve unusually high successes in educating the Russian workers with their special mentality and soul. ”

    G. Picker "Hitler's Table Talk".
    From the book of Felix Chuev “One Hundred and Forty Conversations with Molotov”:
    - Vasily Gavrilovich Grabin, the designer of guns, sent greetings to you. I met him recently. He gave me a magazine with his book “Weapons of Victory” and wrote: “This is how the weapons of victory were forged in the era of JV Stalin.”
    I asked him: “How do you think Stalin was a smart man?” - “Smart is not the right word. We have a lot of smart people. He was a spiritual man, he cared about people, Stalin. Khrushchev said that we were not preparing for war. And I did all my guns before the war. But if they listened to Tukhachevsky, then they would not have been. ”

    Continue...
  8. vorobey
    vorobey 7 February 2014 18: 13
    +22
    Damn well, at least shoot me, I respect this guy for several reasons.

    1. He is more Russian than any zombie Westernophile koi abound now.

    2. He is happy that he is a Jew and is not afraid of it, in contrast to some of us who, with embarrassment, admit that they are Russian.
    1. Horst78
      Horst78 7 February 2014 18: 16
      +5
      Well done wink coolly commented. Although I don't like Jews (I don't trust them), I have a Jewish friend and we are FRIENDS
  9. Vitaly Anisimov
    Vitaly Anisimov 7 February 2014 18: 27
    +4
    Not the peasants, this Wasserman did a fine job. He really got into our souls ... At VO he’s already the owner, everyone praises him (including me) .. Let's be more careful with enthusiasm (he was an ardent anti-Soviet .. and right there he saw right away and sings a nightingale) and we gullibly hung our ears.! Like, we don’t have such Russian analysts, and it’s not possible for us to poke our nose .. I’m putting a minus! This is some kind of zombie .. ring if not right .. hi
    1. RUSS
      RUSS 7 February 2014 18: 30
      +1
      Quote: MIKHAN
      Not the peasants, this Wasserman did a fine job. He really got into our souls ... At VO he’s already the owner, everyone praises him (including me) .. Let's be more careful with enthusiasm (he was an ardent anti-Soviet .. and right there he saw right away and sings a nightingale) and we gullibly hung our ears.! Like, we don’t have such Russian analysts, and it’s not possible for us to poke our nose .. I’m putting a minus! This is some kind of zombie .. ring if not right .. hi


      Here I am about it, plus you!
  10. RUSS
    RUSS 7 February 2014 18: 35
    +2
    Wasserman is undoubtedly an intellectual and cunning, and perhaps skillfully plays on the mood of the people, now Stalin's rating is very high, therefore (as MIKHAN commented) he regained his sight, he knows what "songs" to sing now.
  11. 11111mail.ru
    11111mail.ru 7 February 2014 18: 49
    +2
    I have not read B. Pilnyak's book, but I remember a post-perestroika film based on this book, with picturesque scenes of the drowning of prisoners of war. Well, like, you know, the "creators" from the demo cinematography once again kick the "commies"! Those shots were shot with sadistic savor. Probably they liked what and HOW their grandfathers and great-grandfathers did. Well, and the article for the content of the presentation = naturally PLUS!
  12. Vitaly Anisimov
    Vitaly Anisimov 7 February 2014 18: 53
    -1
    Look at his face and smile .. (it feels like he just laughs and enjoys the way he picks at us for the sore spots in his soul) But we are naive and trusting, after all! Imagine if such a person comes to power (God forbid!) And every evening in all the media he will say praise of this kind of person .. And then he will begin to quote excerpts from the Talmud .. (and those who grab the pitchfork will instantly destroy it ..) Remember this just and don’t believe anyone .. In a terrible and troubled time we live men .. And most importantly, take care of the souls of your children! Communicate with them live on campaigns, go fishing and talk to them as if you had no time or were not tired .. Well, not just know what else to write at the genetic level .. angry
    1. Corsair5912
      Corsair5912 7 February 2014 19: 19
      +6
      I do not believe that Stalin was involved in the death of Frunze, just like Kirov, this lie was concocted by the Trotskyists, their common enemies.
      1. Vasek
        Vasek 7 February 2014 22: 16
        +1
        Quote: Corsair5912
        I do not believe that Stalin was involved in the death of Frunze

        Few remember that Frunze is a Moldovan wassat
        And the Military Academy was not named after him for nothing.
        Of course, to many "commissioners" he was like a bone across the throat.
      2. Bezz
        Bezz 8 February 2014 02: 06
        0
        Quote: Corsair5912
        I do not believe that Stalin was involved in the death of Frunze, just like Kirov, this lie was concocted by the Trotskyists, their common enemies.

        If your grandfather was a revolutionary in 1906, as you wrote above, in the previous comment, then maybe you personally knew Comrade. Stalin. And therefore you have the right not to believe in his involvement in the death of Frunze and Kirov. It would be interesting to read your memoirs about that heroic and violent time.
    2. Black
      Black 7 February 2014 19: 32
      0
      Quote: MIKHAN
      Look at his face and smile ..


      In-in! And on the pockets on the facade ..... Let's see what is in them ... There is time.
  13. Anatole Klim
    Anatole Klim 7 February 2014 18: 59
    +5
    In Russia - in contrast to many other great powers - the highest military leader was almost always a professional soldier. Even those who had been a student before the revolution, like Iona Emmanuilovich Yakir, or a turner, like Juozas Mikhailovich Vareikis, were considered to be subordinate to a political appointee. Naturally, one of the honored commanders could decide: if you compromise those who chose Voroshilov from all possible candidates, there will be hope for the return of the beloved by the military Bronstein.

    Is Bronstein a career soldier? Wasserman was cheating!
    If Leiba Davidovich had not been in the right place at the right time, the revolution would most likely have found other military leaders, no worse (and perhaps even better - now it is impossible to check).

    And here I agree.
  14. konvalval
    konvalval 7 February 2014 19: 11
    +5
    All the negativity towards Stalin after the 20th Congress of the CPSU is, of course, the "merit" of Khrushchev (May beetle). In order to make himself white and fluffy, he raised the sins of Stalin to a large extent.
    Wasserman is undoubtedly an erudite Jew with a Russian soul.
    1. Vasek
      Vasek 7 February 2014 22: 22
      +4
      Quote: konvalval
      All the negativity towards Stalin after the 20th Congress of the CPSU is, of course, the "merit" of Khrushchev (May beetle).

      By the way, Putin, in my opinion, is the first leader of the country who did not build his image on sling mud at the previous one.
      1. German
        German 8 February 2014 07: 31
        +1
        Quote: Vasek
        Quote: konvalval
        All the negativity towards Stalin after the 20th Congress of the CPSU is, of course, the "merit" of Khrushchev (May beetle).

        By the way, Putin, in my opinion, is the first leader of the country who did not build his image on sling mud at the previous one.

        But this is undoubtedly a sensible thought! Ett you correctly noticed (it's a pity that I myself did not think about it)
      2. The comment was deleted.
  15. Patriot of Ukraine
    Patriot of Ukraine 7 February 2014 19: 20
    -7
    Wasserman is the mouthpiece of the Zionists. Only complete fools can listen to him
    1. 11111mail.ru
      11111mail.ru 8 February 2014 11: 19
      0
      Quote: Patriot of Ukraine
      Wasserman is the mouthpiece of the Zionists

      Not a fact, a person is known by his deeds. Doing good = kind person! Does evil = evil person. So what of the fact that he is a Jew? Not every Jew is a Zionist, and not every Zionist is a Jew.
      Quote: Patriot of Ukraine
      They can only listen to it complete fools

      Judging by the way / user / "Patriot of Ukraine / got acquainted with the content of the article and expresses his" opinion ", then first of all, without regarding the others, he himself is declared complete doorakom.
  16. shelva
    shelva 7 February 2014 19: 23
    +2
    These are all speculations not supported by facts. And what's the difference - who killed Frunze ?, Stalin, Trotsky or Dzerzhinsky in general, there were no herbivores there. Internal party groups, power struggles and all that ...
    The main thing is for what? There are several versions, but one seems to be the most logical. This concerned the army reform, which was going to be carried out, and Frunze had some considerations that he was going to voice at the next party plenum. But he did not do this due to a failed operation.
    Among other things, while reforming the army, it was supposed to remove political instructors. "Why do the red commanders need political assistants?" The civil war ended, the commanders studied in academies and at the higher command courses, became communists. According to Frunze, dividing power in the army into military and political in such a case is harmful to the common cause.
    Who could perceive this as a "stone in their garden"? Who could see in this a weakening of the party's power over the army? He could organize the elimination of the reformer.
  17. shelva
    shelva 7 February 2014 19: 28
    +1
    And it is a pity that this part of the reform did not go through - the political instructors were annoyed with their checks and political information. Even in Africa there was no living from them.
    1. old rocket man
      old rocket man 7 February 2014 20: 00
      +1
      Quote: shelva
      And it is a pity that this part of the reform did not go through - the political instructors were annoyed with their checks and political information. Even in Africa there was no living from them.

      And they knocked !!, the woodpeckers are resting. drinks
      1. s1н7т
        s1н7т 7 February 2014 22: 11
        -1
        Quote: Old Rocketman
        And they knocked !!, woodpeckers are resting

        Yeah, the commanders knocked no less. Among the old missilemen - including.
        1. old rocket man
          old rocket man 8 February 2014 00: 20
          -1
          Quote: c1n7
          Quote: Old Rocketman
          And they knocked !!, woodpeckers are resting

          Yeah, the commanders knocked no less. Among the old missilemen - including.

          I feel I hit a sick person. Aren't you one of these backsliders? laughing
  18. Corsair5912
    Corsair5912 7 February 2014 19: 35
    +4
    Quote: MIKHAN
    Not the peasants, this Wasserman did a fine job. He really got into our souls ... At VO he’s already the owner, everyone praises him (including me) .. Let's be more careful with enthusiasm (he was an ardent anti-Soviet .. and right there he saw right away and sings a nightingale) and we gullibly hung our ears.! Like, we don’t have such Russian analysts, and it’s not possible for us to poke our nose .. I’m putting a minus! This is some kind of zombie .. ring if not right .. hi

    Vitaly, who was not an anti-Soviet on the wave of perestroika or did not see clearly, let him first throw a stone at Wasserman. Even those who in the 1991 year were awarded ZaCPanka and they received sight. Here is this famous medal.
    1. Patriot of Ukraine
      Patriot of Ukraine 7 February 2014 20: 04
      +1
      say right away I’m spinning like a weather vane, I change my views depending on the situation as a Wasserman. But it was clear to normal people in 1991 what the hell was going on with the country and the fact that the USSR should not expect anything good from the USA.
      1. Corsair5912
        Corsair5912 7 February 2014 20: 31
        +1
        Quote: Patriot of Ukraine
        say right away I’m spinning like a weather vane, I change my views depending on the situation as a Wasserman. But it was clear to normal people in 1991 what the hell was going on with the country and the fact that the USSR should not expect anything good from the USA.

        Everything was clear to everyone, but they chose Yeltsin.
        As for the weather vane, only fools do not change their decisions and views.
        Cujusvis hominis est errare, nullius, nisi insipientis, jn errore perseverare (Every person tends to make mistakes, to persist in errors is peculiar only to a fool) Cicero.
        1. Vasek
          Vasek 9 February 2014 01: 34
          0
          Quote: Corsair5912
          Cujusvis hominis est errare, nullius, nisi insipientis, jn errore perseverare (Every person tends to make mistakes, to persist in errors is peculiar only to a fool) Cicero.

          good
          ... And experience, son of difficult mistakes,
          and genius, friend of paradoxes ... "
          A.S. Pushkin (with the filing of Kapitsa laughing )
  19. Vitaly Anisimov
    Vitaly Anisimov 7 February 2014 20: 04
    +2
    Quote: Corsair5912
    Quote: MIKHAN
    Not the peasants, this Wasserman did a fine job. He really got into our souls ... At VO he’s already the owner, everyone praises him (including me) .. Let's be more careful with enthusiasm (he was an ardent anti-Soviet .. and right there he saw right away and sings a nightingale) and we gullibly hung our ears.! Like, we don’t have such Russian analysts, and it’s not possible for us to poke our nose .. I’m putting a minus! This is some kind of zombie .. ring if not right .. hi

    Vitaly, who was not an anti-Soviet on the wave of perestroika or did not see clearly, let him first throw a stone at Wasserman. Even those who in the 1991 year were awarded ZaCPanka and they received sight. Here is this famous medal.

    Most did not dare to argue with you .. and I throw a stone at you! The humpback talked us out ... with verbiage .. Yeltsin was fighting with privileges .. (he rode buses from the bridge and fell ..) We woke up when the country began to choke with blood, plundered and humiliated .. But what I say all this makes no sense, everyone knows .. ( and for another year we begin to believe the Jews in power, expect a lot of blood and devastation ..) I think there is no need to bring examples from history and the recent past .. They are useful under control, and if everyone breaks out to power, put out the candles brother to brother, father to grandfather .. Checked !
    1. Corsair5912
      Corsair5912 7 February 2014 20: 35
      -1
      Quote: MIKHAN
      Most did not dare to object to you .. and throw a stone at you! The humpback talked about us ... verbiage .. Yeltsin struggled with privileges .. (he drove on buses from the bridge ..) Woke up when the country began to plague with blood and was humiliated and humiliated.

      The stone is not in me, Vitaly, but in Wasserman.
      I did not believe in spotted Gorbi, the German of the year, or the drunk Reltsin. And I do not believe in the omnipotence of the Jews either.
      I never believed in miracles
      In the coming paradise did not get along with a suitcase

      V.S. Vysotsky.
      1. Vasek
        Vasek 7 February 2014 22: 25
        0
        Quote: Corsair5912
        The stone is not in me, Vitaly, but in Wasserman.
        I did not believe in spotted Gorbi, the German of the year, or the drunk Reltsin. And I do not believe in the omnipotence of the Jews either.
        I never believed in miracles
        In the coming paradise did not get along with a suitcase
        V.S. Vysotsky.

        Nikolay, and who do you think was Vysotsky by nationality?
        1. Corsair5912
          Corsair5912 8 February 2014 08: 45
          0
          Quote: Vasek
          Quote: Corsair5912
          The stone is not in me, Vitaly, but in Wasserman.
          I did not believe in spotted Gorbi, the German of the year, or the drunk Reltsin. And I do not believe in the omnipotence of the Jews either.
          I never believed in miracles
          In the coming paradise did not get along with a suitcase
          V.S. Vysotsky.

          Nikolay, and who do you think was Vysotsky by nationality?

          Vasek, I don’t think, I know, Vysotsky was Russian by nationality.
          Just don’t have to cheat on his songs and list his non-Russian ancestors, everyone chooses his nationality. There are many r ... on an unknown nationality who had Russian ancestors.
          1. Vasek
            Vasek 9 February 2014 01: 09
            0
            Quote: Corsair5912
            everyone chooses nationality



            I agree if by nationality, chosen by everyone, you mean belonging to a certain nation (in terms of culture, history, "soul" (if you like)).
            But, in this case, Vysotsky is the same Russian as Anatoly Alexandrovich Wasserman. He considers himself not a Ukrainian, even though he was born and raised on the territory of modern Ukraine. But I, being from those lands, know a few Odessans who agree with the belonging of Odessa to Ukraine.
            Perhaps I should have said "by origin" instead of "by nationality."
            But here - generally a dark forest! Most of us can easily get confused remembering the national origin of all our ancestors.
            And this variety is not bad, in my opinion. laughing
  20. Vitaly Anisimov
    Vitaly Anisimov 7 February 2014 20: 47
    +1
    Quote: Corsair5912
    Quote: MIKHAN
    Most did not dare to object to you .. and throw a stone at you! The humpback talked about us ... verbiage .. Yeltsin struggled with privileges .. (he drove on buses from the bridge ..) Woke up when the country began to plague with blood and was humiliated and humiliated.

    The stone is not in me, Vitaly, but in Wasserman.
    I did not believe in spotted Gorbi, the German of the year, or the drunk Reltsin. And I do not believe in the omnipotence of the Jews either.
    I never believed in miracles
    In the coming paradise did not get along with a suitcase

    V.S. Vysotsky.

    I understand you .. and sympathize ..! bully (and there is still a small pebble in you.)))
  21. parus2nik
    parus2nik 7 February 2014 21: 07
    +4
    On August 6, 1925, Grigory Ivanovich Kotovsky was killed (the murder was recognized as committed on a domestic basis, later the killer was released ahead of schedule), two months later Mikhail Vasilyevich Frunze died 1925.10.31/XNUMX XNUMX ... was ... At the same time, Frunze highly appreciated the military and economic talents of Kotovsky ...
    1. Snoop
      Snoop 7 February 2014 21: 29
      +3
      Most likely these two deaths are links in the same chain. Most likely a showdown between clans among the military. Indeed, both of these people were not part of Trotsky's cohort. It can also be added that Kotovsky was "at knives" with Yakir. Another fact, Frunze asked for all the materials of the criminal case on Kotovsky's murder. Then the operation ... and the case returns to Odessa.
      1. parus2nik
        parus2nik 7 February 2014 21: 52
        +1
        Then the operation ... and Frunze dies .. (the knife in the hand of the young surgeon trembled, figuratively speaking)
        1. Snoop
          Snoop 7 February 2014 21: 58
          +1
          Letter to O.P. Kotovskaya V.G. Schmerling (Soviet writer.)
          1923 Trotskyist opposition. The beginning of the discussion in the units finds Grigory Ivanovich on the way from Baku, where he went on business of the Sugar Plant. On the way, he learns that Primakov is going from Moscow to the division with Trotsky's letter. The path of Gregory Iv. lay in Moscow, but he did not linger and hurried to the corps.

          Grigory Ivanovich was straightforward in character. He used military tricks with pain in his soul. He strove for an open fight. Upon arrival at the corps, he immediately left for Berdichev, where a discussion was already begun by the division commissar Broige, cat. defended Trotsky's position. Part of the divas. took the position of "sitting on two chairs", Grigory Ivanovich, with his characteristic passion, fell upon both. He believed that the vacillation of the division's political leadership would weaken the division and achieved the recall of Broyde and others. At the same time, he managed to be at meetings every day, both in units and in the city - everywhere he sharply opposed the opposition.

          At our factory, the administrator was a Bessarabets Popov, a cat. in the heat of an argument, he hit the Trotskyist, who came to complain to Kotovsky, but received an impressive verbal bath from him that he did not know how to get out of the house. Since then, Grigory Ivanovich was not so trusting of people; he analyzed everyone and if he suspected sympathy for Trotsky, he got rid of such a worker.

          This is how the agronomist Pyatakov, the brother of the now shot enemy, entered the sugar factory. He looked closely at his work and a month later offered to leave, giving him the name "rotten intellectual, attached to the Soviet regime." Upon arrival from Kiev, he told me that Yakir took the position of "sitting on two chairs", and at home he had a difficult situation, and although Yakir invited him to dinner, he left. Yakir's wife itched Yakir that she did not openly take the side of Trotsky, the cat. gave them this position. Grigory Ivanovich was struck by the behavior of the two-faced Yakir in such an important matter of principle. He then told me that such people of the Party are harmful, dangerous, because at any difficult moment they can change.

          And when Yakir was again appointed commander in Ukraine, I asked Grisha why he and other corps corps did not protest against his appointment. He said that he, Yakir, had already been digested in Moscow, and they all knew him well and would decipher him in time if he changed the general line of the party, but he did not have to decipher the villain.

          Kotovsky was killed at 3 o'clock in the morning from 5 to 6 / VIII, at 6 o'clock in the morning the civil and judicial authorities were on the spot, and the corps commander arrived only at 14 o'clock. and interrogated everyone. The forensic examination insisted on the prompt sending of the corpse to Odessa for an autopsy, but he forbade it, since he must interrogate everyone and examine the corpse himself, because Comrade Frunze does not give him rest with inquiries.

          Only after my sharp protest and threat to inform comrade Frunze about his behavior, he deigned to give permission to leave. The whole process of the investigation was conducted from the angle of simple crime. A year later, the trial.
          1. parus2nik
            parus2nik 7 February 2014 22: 59
            0
            Thank you, this letter is known ... But O. P. Kotovskaya is going too far ... and has the right to do so, about the Trotskyists ... the letter was written under the impression of past trials ... Maybe we are looking for a black cat in a dark room, especially since there she's not there? .. And on the other hand, a strange coincidence ..
            1. Snoop
              Snoop 8 February 2014 05: 38
              0
              I was interested in the strange position of the military, in the person of the corps commander, only who exactly does not she write in the letter. Refuses to provide a corpse for autopsy. Slows down the investigation under the pretext that he himself needs to interrogate everyone. What does this have to do with it? He has no such powers. Even if he wants to interrogate someone, how does the sending of a corpse for examination interfere with this?)))
            2. 11111mail.ru
              11111mail.ru 8 February 2014 11: 24
              0
              Quote: parus2nik
              .And on the other hand, a strange coincidence ..

              It's worse than a coincidence, it's a trend!
      2. Vasek
        Vasek 7 February 2014 22: 29
        0
        Quote: Snoop
        Most likely a showdown between clans among the military.

        Military, you say?
        Kotovsky and Frunze are Moldovans.
        Bronstein-Yakir-Tukhachevsky (etc.) - not really!
        1. s1н7т
          s1н7т 8 February 2014 00: 31
          0
          Quote: Vasek

          Military, you say?
          Kotovsky and Frunze are Moldovans.

          What, and Marinescu is not a military man? laughing The brainlessness of the USE generation?
          1. Vasek
            Vasek 8 February 2014 04: 02
            0
            Quote: c1n7
            What, and Marinescu is not a military man? The brainlessness of the USE generation?

            Yes, I actually mean that it was not "military" that opposed these two groups.
            And if about the Unified State Exam, then 35 years ago our final exams were called differently.
            And the fact that Marinescu is from another generation is a military man and a hero of another war, our generation knows very well.
            So, which of us is brainy is a moot point, and this dispute for you, oh, how difficult it will be to win from me. soldier
        2. Snoop
          Snoop 8 February 2014 05: 39
          0
          Were they rural teachers?)))
          1. Vasek
            Vasek 8 February 2014 09: 07
            +1
            Quote: Snoop
            Were they rural teachers?)))

            Kotovsky began his career with robbery and banditry. Then he considered himself Robin Hood of Odessa-Moldavian. On this, the Bolsheviks recruited him - he had really good organizational and tactical inclinations.
            Mikhail Vasilievich, on the contrary, approached "the science of winning" wisely. As a result, both careers in the struggle for Soviet power ended.
            But from the "enmity" of the Bronstein-Yakir group (also, by the way, a native of Chisinau), etc., they were not saved at all by the "intra-war" confrontation.
            That's what my comment was about. And there is no need to juggle - I myself honestly gave the debt to the Soviet Union as a career officer, and I am detailing the history on a well-deserved rest for myself (a hobby, as it were).
            What I wish you, Vyacheslav!
          2. Vasek
            Vasek 8 February 2014 09: 11
            0
            Trust me, it's not as simple as a "shizzle my nizzle", Snoop! laughing bully
  22. polkovnik manuch
    polkovnik manuch 7 February 2014 23: 06
    +1
    I respect Wasserman, but today I simply did not understand the article. According to Wasserman, it turns out that 60-70% of the more or less significant military leaders of the civil war are Jews! Leiba Trotsky is a political prostitute - as VI Lenin said, there was also an adventurer thirsty for a "world fire", BEFORE THE LAST RUSSIAN (RUSSIAN) WORKER AND PEASANT! In addition, one of the authors of the institute of commissars (political instructors), and most of the commissars were again Jews!
    1. Black
      Black 8 February 2014 00: 21
      0
      Quote: polkovnik manuch
      I respect Wasserman


      Advice (although the matter, in principle, is not rewarding .....)
      Do not make yourself an idol!!!!
    2. old rocket man
      old rocket man 8 February 2014 00: 24
      0
      Quote: polkovnik manuch
      In addition, one of the authors of the institute of commissars (political instructors), and the majority of commissars were again Jews!

      What surprises you so much?
      Firstly, not all of them were bad people, and secondly, these are well-known facts and the founder (Karl Marx) was also a Jew laughing
      1. 11111mail.ru
        11111mail.ru 8 February 2014 12: 01
        +1
        Quote: Old Rocketman
        and the founder (Karl Marx) was also a Jew

        So what of this? Taken from G. Klimov "Protocols of Soviet Wise Men":
        “The anti-Semitism of Karl Marx, the son of a baptized Jew, who, in his book Problems Concerning the Jewish Question, wrote that Jews crown and dethrone kings, that they strive for a world government that will be commanded by the Jews, that their god is money and their profession is usury ... "
        In his work "On the Jewish Question", he allows himself such statements: "The basis of Judaism is selfishness. The only connection that unites Jews is the preservation of their property and selfishness ... "" The worldly culture of a Jew is usury, his god is money. Emancipation from usury and money, that is, from real Judaism, will be the liberation of our time. "
        Last year, one of the members of the forum with the flag under the "Star of David" corrected me something like this: a Jew who has changed his religion ceases to be a Jew. Think for yourself ...
  23. voliador
    voliador 8 February 2014 00: 59
    +2
    Almost all of these revolutionaries are Jews. And even sniffing with the Germans.
  24. Same lech
    Same lech 8 February 2014 03: 23
    0
    (as I have said more than once, any price is always paid from someone else's pocket).
    Right...