Military Review

Dvukhsredny friend spetsnaz

33
The product of the Tula Instrument Design Bureau OJSC, which is part of the High-Precision Complexes Holding, will be the star of the DEFEXPO India 2014 exhibition


The Russian holding company OAO NPO Vysokotochny Komplektsy successfully produces not only high-tech weapon systems, but also a unique rifle weapon. At 8-th International Exhibition of Land and Naval Weapons, which will be held as part of Defexpo India 2014 from 6 to 9 this February in New Delhi, the holding presents a unique two-medium-sized automaton ADS capable of hitting targets both under water and on land .

In February of this year, one of the leading production associations of the Russian military-industrial complex - the holding company NPO High-Precision Complexes - marks its fifth anniversary. Over the years, VK products have earned high marks both among the Russian military and law enforcement agencies, as well as abroad. The Pantsir-S anti-aircraft missile cannon system protects not only the S-300 and S-400 air defense systems of the Russian Armed Forces, but also strategically important targets in almost ten countries of the world. Anti-tank guided complexes "Cornet" became the stars of arms exhibitions around the world. Hezbollah operators during the second Lebanon war successfully hit them considered one of the most protected Israeli Tanks Merkava.

Last year, another NPO NPK Vysokietochny Komplektsy OJSC JSC NPK Engineering Design Bureau, the operational-tactical Iskander missile system, caused a political crisis in Europe after the German media declared that the Armed Forces of Russia placed several launchers of these OTRK in Kaliningrad.

Held every two years under the auspices of the Ministry of Defense of India and the Confederation of Indian Industry, Defexpo India is one of the most significant foreign exhibition sites of the military-industrial sector. Subjects - weapons and military equipment for the ground forces and naval forces, communication systems, electronic warfare, air defense, etc. Dual-use products are also presented. The exhibition will bring together leading military manufacturers from Russia, the USA, France, and the UK - only around 32 countries.

For Russian enterprises of the military-industrial complex Defexpo India is one of the priorities. Russian-Indian cooperation in the military-technical field lasts for more than four decades and forms the basis of a strategic partnership between Russia and India. This year, representatives of almost 40 Russian defense enterprises will arrive in New Delhi. Thus, there is nothing surprising in the fact that it is this representative international exhibition of armaments that has become a platform for the presentation of the unique two-medium-sized automatic ATC.

The reasons for the lack of world analogues

ADF, that is, a two-medium special automaton, is the only one in the world capable of striking targets both under water and on land.

“In the West, a fighter uses special weapons such as the German submarine pistol P-11 from Heckler und Koch under water, and on land - the usual full-time small arms,” says Maxim Popenker, editor-in-chief of the World Guns Internet project.

Dvukhsredny friend spetsnazOrdinary submachine guns and underwater pistols are ineffective, since the bullet will pass only two or three meters, and the ammunition of the special weapons such as 5,66-mm MPS cartridge from the APS underwater submachine gun or the SPP-1 pistol in the air is unstable - it will be very difficult to hit the target. But a fighter acting underwater with an aqualung, or a diver, when every gram of equipment counts, it is inconvenient to haul two machine guns at once - special and ordinary, and even ammunition to them.

“APS is a regular weapon of my unit,” the former officer of the intelligence department of the USSR / Russian Navy, now a diving instructor, said on condition of anonymity. - It is very convenient under water. Good accuracy, accuracy and firing range. But it is only under water. On land there is no benefit from it. ” According to our anonymous interlocutor, his former subordinates went to the depth either with an APS machine gun or with an SPP-1 pistol, and in a special sealed bag lay a regular small arms.

“If a fighter has a machine gun or a sniper rifle,” explains the former intelligence officer, “then the second weapon was given an SPP-1 pistol, and ordinary submachine gunners — the APS. During the exercises, we landed on the territory of the conditional enemy, dug in wetsuits, scuba diving, etc. We also did with underwater weapons. In theory, we had to carry it with us, because these are very expensive “toys”. Who needs extra weight? Fortunately, these are teachings and then we dug out the MTA and SPP. But in a real war, we would do that, too. The situation when you climb to storm the ship or the ship of the "enemy" is even worse - the APS dangles, interferes. Where to go? Do not throw out the same ... "

Our interlocutor also noted that at the end of the 80-s, the Main Intelligence Directorate, whose subordination consisted of naval special forces, had formulated a requirement for small arms developers to create an armament complex that could be used both on land and under water with minimal replacement. “It was believed,” he says, “that we need a two-medium pistol and an automatic rifle. Pistols would act as a second weapon for snipers and machine gunners. But later, the two-medium gun was abandoned. On land, we used only special pistols with a silencer, and then rarely. And the underwater SPP-1 is frankly weak compared to the MPS. We did not like him. All the same, the anti-sabotage subunits of the probable enemy did not have analogues of the APS. And now no. Even if not the whole unit is armed with two-medium weapons, we could always fight back. ”

After the collapse of the USSR, only the end of the 90s - the beginning of the 2000s - was able to return to the creation of two-medium weapons, when the Instrument Engineering Design Bureau and the Central Design Research Bureau of sporting and hunting weapons in 2003 started to work on the two-medium special machine .

The developers came to the conclusion that a two-medium product can be achieved by simply replacing the cartridges, when on land the machine guns with ordinary cartridges and under water with special ones. The arrow needs only to quickly change the magazine with one type of ammo to another. Moreover, the experience of using the APS underwater submachine gun in anti-sabotage units and special-purpose units of the USSR / Russian Navy showed that there are no large-scale battles under water and a swimmer can easily manage with one special ammunition store.

On the approaches to the creation

The designers of the Tula Instrument Engineering Design Bureau, having begun to design a two-medium-sized machine gun, understood right away that it was necessary to refuse 5,66-mm underwater cartridges.

According to Maxim Popenker, in the 2005 year, this design bureau developed a special underwater cartridge in the dimensions of a conventional millimeter cartridge 5,45x39 and using its same sleeve. The new cartridge has a carbide bullet weighing 16 grams with an initial speed of about 330 meters per second. According to the expert, it can be attributed to the category of armor-piercing.

“In the water, the stabilization of the bullet and the decrease in resistance are due to the cavitation cavity created by the flat pad in the nose when moving. The effective firing range of the SRP chuck under water is approximately 25 meters at a depth of five meters and up to 18 meters at a depth of 20 meters. When firing under water, the PSP cartridge exceeds the 5,66-mm MPS and MPST cartridges from the automatic fire alarm system in combat effectiveness. Due to their size, 5.45 PSP cartridges can be used from standard magazines from AK-74 machines, ”says Popenker.

It was decided to create an automatic grenade launcher complex A-91М, which had received positive feedback from the special forces, on the basis of the special forces of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the Interior Forces of the Ministry of Internal Affairs proposed for armament. The reason for this choice is simple: A-91M is designed according to the bullpup scheme, when the trigger is brought forward and is located in front of the magazine and the percussion mechanism.

“The underwater APS, even despite the folding butt, was not always convenient for the swimmer when leaving the carrier or moving weapons under water,” the editor-in-chief of the Internet project World Guns said. According to him, the bullpup scheme was chosen for reasons of compactness and minimizing the size of the machine. The dimensions of the ADS turned out to be rather small compared to the APS, but the machine gun has good ballistics due to the sufficient length of the barrel.

“It’s convenient to get out of the water and leave the carriers with ADF using the bullpup scheme,” says Popenker. “The main thing is that there is no need to tinker with a folding butt, as on the MTA.”

The work on the new underwater automat that lasted two years was completed in 2007. The ADF was immediately created as a rifle-and-grenade launcher complex with an installed grenade launcher GP-25. Considering the high aggressiveness of the salty sea water and the desire not to increase the weight of the two-medium automaton, the designers minimized the use of a specially treated corrosion-resistant metal, replacing it with plastic. Such a decision not only protected the machine, but also made it easy enough for action both on land and under water. Subjected to refinement and gas outlet, received two modes of operation - "water / land." The shooter selects the mode depending on the environment in which it operates.

The main problem of small arms, developed according to the “bullpup” scheme, is its use by left-handers (the case flies right into the person who shoots). We have to refine the "trunk" to throw the sleeve in a safe direction for left-handed people. In the ADF, the spent cartridges are reflected forward when the automation box is closed, which reduces gas pollution in the face of the shooter, eliminates the possibility of injury by the cartridge when working as a group, and also (unlike side reflection) ensures that the weapon is adapted for left-handed and right-handed people without a bulkhead of the machine.

In the course of the work, a new two-medium machine gun was equipped with fastenings for optical, collimator and holographic sights, tactical flashlights, laser sightings, as well as CBs (silent firing devices), i.e. silencers.

The development of the machine to customer requirements dragged on for almost six years. The uniqueness of the work itself and the tasks assigned to the designers affected it. The Tula Instrument Design Bureau and the High Precision Complexes holding company passed this test with flying colors and at the end of 2012 - the beginning of 2013, the new two-medium special machine went into trial operation for both special purpose and anti-sabotage operations of the Naval fleet.

According to Dmitry Konoplev, managing director of Instrument Design Bureau, OJSC, and Alexander Denisov, General Director of High-Precision Complexes, OAO, ADF earned only positive personnel reviews during military operations. 13 of August of last year, by a decree of the government of the Russian Federation, a two-medium special automatic was adopted by the Russian army.

The first open presentation of ADF took place during the Sea Salon, held last year in St. Petersburg. Then dvuhsredny automatic caused a keen interest among specialists and foreign military. The uniqueness of both the ADS machine itself and the technical solutions applied in it is obvious. The Russian Navy received a shooting complex with a special high performance underwater cartridge.

Challenges and export potential

“In 1950 – 1960, the USSR Navy began to create its own special formations for sabotage against ships and targets of a potential enemy. Such formations in domestic military terminology are called maritime intelligence points (MRI). According to their status and the number of personnel, the MRP can be equated to a special-purpose squad. Now there are five such groups in the Russian Navy, ”says the military historian, author of stories Navy of the USSR / Russia Dmitry Boltenkov.

According to him, after the catastrophe with the battleship Novorossiysk, the command of the Soviet Navy to protect its ships, nuclear submarines and infrastructure created special units to combat underwater sabotage forces and means. Such a detachment in status and number of personnel can be equated with a company. Now in the Russian Navy 12 detachments PDSS. Formations like them are also in the internal troops of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Russian Federation.

“Today there is an active re-equipment of the special purpose naval units and PDSS,” emphasizes Boltenkov. - New anti-sabotage boats “Rooks”, watercrafts for delivery, evacuation and fire support of saboteurs on the coast are being purchased. There are new scuba gears, hydro and diving suits, communications equipment, night vision devices, etc. ”

As world experience in the use of reconnaissance and sabotage units and subunits, such as the American SEAL (widely known “seals”), the British SBS (special boat service), the French maritime commandos of the Hubert team, shows that their use is multifunctional. Combat swimmers have ceased to be only an "anti-ship weapon", like the legendary Italian saboteurs of the "black prince" Valerio Borghese during the Second World War. Now the units of the marine special forces not only carry out sabotage under water in enemy ports, protect their waters from enemy saboteurs, but also act like ordinary reconnaissance saboteurs. If you look at the map of Afghanistan, you will not find either ports or large bodies of water, but the ISAF has on a permanent basis at least 200 – 300 American “seals” and their British counterparts from the Special Marine Service of the Royal Marine Corps.

Restless and on the seas. In recent years, piracy in the waters of Somalia and certain areas of the South China Sea has become an international problem. Combat swimmers were brought several times to release captured ships and their crews. An example is the seizure of the American container ship "Maersk Alabama" in April 2009, when captain Richard Phillips was released as a result of the operation of American "seals" from DEVGRU. True, the release did without an assault, and the pirates were destroyed by sniper fire. Participant in the operation to free Captain Phillips, Mark Owen, in his memoirs “Not an Easy Day” (No Easy Day), claims that the DEVGRU command considered one of the options for a night storming of a rescue boat scuba divers, where they held the hostage. Another US military general, Karl Steener, who commanded the United States Special Operations Command (JSOC) in 80 – 90-s, described in his memoirs “Shadow Warriors” preparations for the release of the Akila Laura passenger liner "In October 1985, claims that two attack options were considered - assault from helicopters and the invisible penetration of combat swimmers into the ship.

So there are enough tasks on the sea for ADF. But the newest two-medium machine will find its application on land.

“My office is familiar with ADF. Shot from it, assorted. Weapons difficult for professionals. Not for ordinary conscripts. But on land, a two-medium automatic will be very useful, ”the intelligence officer of the military district headquarters admits. According to him, several dozen automata are needed for special purpose brigades subordinate to the command of the district. “There are enough rivers, lakes and other bodies of water on the Bolshoi Land,” said our interlocutor. - It is often more effective to lead a group to the object of attack or intelligence, not by parachute or helicopter, but on the water surface. Not without reason, diving training has now returned to the brigades. The Americans in Iraq deployed whole flotilla of river forces, which not only patrolled rivers and lakes, but also carried out sudden raids.

As part of each “saber” squadron of the legendary SAS regiment (special aviation service) of the armed forces of Great Britain, considered one of the most professional special forces units in the world, there is a platoon of watercraft operating on rivers and lakes, as well as coastal waters on boats, canoes and scuba gear. There are the same units in the 13th Dragoon Regiment of the French Army, also engaged in deep reconnaissance, and the American Green Berets undergo combat divers courses for operation in closed reservoirs and rivers.

ADF will also be useful for servicemen of the internal troops of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia guarding important state facilities.

“We are practically the same subdivision of the counter-sabotage struggle as the navy. We only work for the most part in reservoirs and artificial reservoirs. When patrolling, it sometimes becomes necessary to get out of the water in order to check technical facilities and structures, ”explains a former officer-diver of the internal troops.

According to the interlocutor of the publication, his former colleagues not only fight against unauthorized access to the protected territory, but if necessary are ready to fight back terrorists and prepared saboteurs of a potential enemy.

“Modern terrorists are armed and equipped no worse than elite special forces. Can get advanced scuba gear and even underwater weapons. With ADF, military personnel will not be at risk of being killed when they inspect all kinds of plums, valves, etc. on land, ”the officer of the internal troops notes.

We can safely say that ADF will be in demand on the international arms market. The two-medium special machine gun will find its buyer, taking a worthy place in the list of weapons of the elite special forces of the world. Moreover, in the modern market of armaments so far he has no competitors, and all special underwater armaments are very expensive. Not every state can afford to equip a fighter with a conventional and underwater submachine gun.

Undoubtedly, the product line of the High-Precision Complexes holding company has been replenished with a unique product demanded by the domestic military and possessing a large export potential. It remains to wish the management and employees of OAO NPO High-Precision Complexes not to stop on their achievements in their jubilee and continue to produce competitive products.
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  1. makarov
    makarov 6 February 2014 07: 50
    +6
    Eh ma! I thought that they would really tell the WHOLE TRUTH about the creation of the 5.45 PSP cartridge ??? They do not want to, they are shy about paradoxicality. Initially, the terms of the TK were for the development of a cartridge using PBS. We made calculations and a number of layouts based on them. When shooting the mock-ups, they were convinced of the instability of the bullet flight and the tendency to overturn at ranges, and they had already lowered their hands, getting upset, but then they remembered about the two-average. We conducted experimental shooting under water, and ... a miracle happened, we got exactly the result that was from the customer back in the early nineties. This is how it happened, and now, after almost a decade, they begin to "ride their ass" in front of readers, like "we planned", "a unique solution", etc., there is no way to tell the truth, how it really happened ( ?) !!
    1. Ascetic
      Ascetic 6 February 2014 20: 28
      +1
      Quote: makarov
      what really tell the whole truth about creating a cartridge 5.45 PSP ???


      Patent
      Small arms cartridge for underwater shooting
      The cartridge consists of a standard steel cartridge case of an automatic cartridge of 5,45-mm caliber, a charge of gunpowder grade SENf 45 / 3,98 * and a special bullet weighing 16 grams * of tungsten alloy. According to public information, during state tests it was found that at a depth of up to 5 meters, the maximum range of destruction of ammunition by the PSP is 25 meters, and the energy of a bullet at a depth of 5 meters and a range of 20 meters is 167 J. The initial speed of a bullet when shooting in air is 333 m / s *.

      Bullets cartridges PSP and PSP-UD (combat training of a bronze alloy)


      link
  2. DNX1970
    DNX1970 6 February 2014 08: 20
    +1
    We are waiting for the cheap Chinese version! But in general, a big respect, keep it up !!!!
  3. Ruslan
    Ruslan 6 February 2014 08: 23
    +10
    I would not sell it to anyone. let it be only with us. Is that the old APS palm off.
    1. kostiknet
      kostiknet 6 February 2014 10: 37
      +6
      Quote: ruslan
      Is that the old APS palm off.

      and it’s not to sell, they will interrupt no matter how. I do not want to know at all that our group of combat swimmers was destroyed by our own weapons. Anyway, why deprive yourself of an advantage in armament?
  4. Professor
    Professor 6 February 2014 09: 10
    -12%
    Well done engineers who embodied such technical solutions in metal, however:
    The product of the Tula OAO Instrument Design Bureau, which is part of the High Precision Complexes holding, will become a star DEFEXPO India 2014

    Modestly, well done. laughing

    The reasons for the lack of world analogues

    1. How can it be without a tax in the world. How can anyone translate such an idiom into English?
    2. There are no analogues since the niche of such weapons is microscopic. Fighting with combat swimmers whose number is comparable to the number of astronauts (I exaggerate, but not far from the truth).

    If you look at the map of Afghanistan, you will not find either ports or large bodies of water, but at least 200-300 American “seals” and their British colleagues from the Royal Marines special boat service operate on an ongoing basis as part of the ISAF.

    In the mountains of Afghanistan, such a machine will simply not be replaced. fool

    We can safely say that the ADF will be in demand on the international arms market.

    I would have their courage. 100-150 pieces will be sold by force. That's the whole market potential.
    1. bazilio
      bazilio 6 February 2014 09: 50
      +7
      Quote: Professor
      1. How can it be without a tax in the world. How can anyone translate such an idiom into English?

      Why this banter?
      Quote: Professor
      2. There are no analogues since the niche of such weapons is microscopic. Fighting with combat swimmers whose number is comparable to the number of astronauts (I exaggerate, but not far from the truth).

      Yes, you are right, the model is not for mass weapons in millions of copies. And this confirms the uniqueness of the ADS. I bet that the armed forces of many countries would like to possess such complexes, but due to the lack of supply of adequate samples at an affordable cost, it is easier to refer to an extremely narrow niche.
      1. viktorR
        viktorR 6 February 2014 17: 50
        +5
        Why this banter?
        - Envy)?
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Apollo
      Apollo 6 February 2014 09: 53
      +5
      Good day to all.

      quote-ADS, that is, a special two-machine gun, while the only one in the world is capable of hitting targets both under water and on land.

      1. Dmitry 2246
        Dmitry 2246 6 February 2014 11: 10
        +4
        The weapon delighted. The balance and dimensions are ideal for working on any technique. The dimensions do not interfere with moving quickly, and the grenade launcher always adds confidence against the enemy behind cover. Add "standard caliber" - and here is the first order of 10 thousand.
  5. datur
    datur 6 February 2014 09: 52
    +2
    [quote = Ruslan] I would not sell it to anyone. let it be only with us. except that the old aps palm off .---- agree !!! wink and then show the Chinese and then the Chinas, independently develop it, repeat
  6. avt
    avt 6 February 2014 10: 05
    +12
    Cool pattern good The engineering solution is amazing, again you can see how the loaf was brought to mind, starting from "Thunderstorm".
    Quote: Professor
    2. There are no analogues since the niche of such weapons is microscopic. Fighting with combat swimmers whose number is comparable to the number of astronauts (I exaggerate, but not far from the truth).

    Quote: Professor
    In the mountains of Afghanistan, such a machine will simply not be replaced. fool

    And you can also add that Schmeiser, after he made the Kalash, drew the ADF drawings. However, what am I request . It is well known that Kalashnikov reworked the Galil assault rifle. Well, better than Tavor, there is nothing in the world. At the expense of the mountains of Afghanistan - here just a rifle-grenade launcher complex must be tested for reliability under appropriate conditions. But in one thing you are right - the series will probably be small, because since Tavor no one will spin it.
    1. Professor
      Professor 6 February 2014 10: 45
      -12%
      Quote: avt
      . It is well known that Kalashnikov reworked the Galil assault rifle. Well, Tavor is better in the world.

      Hooked on a living? It happens. wassat
      Galil alteration of Kalash - this is how he is described, Tavor is not positioned in the best or lacking analogs in the world.
      1. avt
        avt 6 February 2014 12: 48
        +5
        Quote: Professor
        Hooked on a living? It happens.

        No . I just don't like it very much when they turn on the “woodpecker effect” with a smart look and giggle - in this case, they stubbornly pedal the possibility of shooting under water, absolutely not noticing the fact that this weapon has the ability to work with STANDARD ammunition in the air and SPECIAL in the water, without any alterations when switching from one cartridge to another with placement in a regular store.Can you give analogs developed before or after the creation of ADS ??? Then we will talk about
        Quote: Professor
        having no taxes in the world

        In the meantime, only an artistic whistle about
        Quote: Professor
        Tavor is not positioned in the best or nonexistent world.
        , they say, and didn’t really want to do it like that.
        Quote: Ilya Mikhalych
        Cool machine, you can’t say anything. Although advertising the machine without showing its performance characteristics is somehow not entirely honest.

        It is made on the basis of the A-91M, even the Tula’s version was made under the NATO cartridge, you can quite look for their videos on YouTube.
        1. Professor
          Professor 6 February 2014 13: 44
          -8
          Quote: avt
          I just don't like it very much when they turn on the “woodpecker effect” with a smart look and giggle - in this case, they stubbornly pedal the possibility of firing under water, absolutely not noticing the fact that this weapon has the ability to work with STANDARD ammunition in the air and SPECIAL in the water

          For all his service, somehow there was no need to fire under water.

          Quote: avt
          Can you give analogues developed before or after the creation of the ADS ???

          I repeat, the engineers are brave, only there is no need for such weapons.

          This is from the area of ​​very "necessary" bells and whistles like these.




          Quote: avt
          they say that I didn’t really want to do it as such.

          I repeat, Tavor is not positioned as the best in the world or tax-free. Nevertheless, the soldiers are happy with them and the re-equipment of the army is in full swing. What can not be said about the "star" of the Indian exhibition.
          1. avt
            avt 6 February 2014 14: 11
            +5
            Quote: Professor
            For all his service, somehow there was no need to fire under water.

            Really a battle swimmer? In practice, engaged in sabotage and anti-sabotage work? Or just a great weapon specialist?
            Quote: Professor
            This is from the area of ​​very "necessary" bells and whistles like these

            Forgot to add here Israeli development for shooting from around the corner, which is advertised as a great achievement already on "Discovery"
            Quote: Professor
            I repeat, the engineers are brave, only there is no need for such weapons.

            Yes, we have a lot of things that we have, in the opinion of "probable friends," no need. From aircraft carriers and "Ash", which suddenly became, in the opinion of "independent experts" expensive and redundant, to ADS.
            Quote: Professor
            Nevertheless, the soldiers are happy with them and the re-equipment of the army is in full swing. What can not be said about the "star" of the Indian exhibition.

            What I'm talking about, there will always be "well-wishers" who prove the absurdity of a new weapon and who then laugh at the old models that are in service. And here is an excellent example of a weapon capable, when using specialized ammunition, to work in water. But putting it into service, as well as a PR company promoting the market, the matter is completely different for other people and does not affect the characteristics of the weapon in any way.
            1. Professor
              Professor 6 February 2014 22: 01
              -4
              Quote: avt
              Real combat swimmer

              Where to? repeat But on the island of Maysky he was on duty.

              Quote: avt
              In practice, engaged in sabotage and anti-sabotage work?

              So you already agree with me that a weapon is the maximum for sabotage and counter-sabotage work, that is, a "niche"?

              Quote: avt
              Forgot to add here Israeli development for shooting from around the corner, which is advertised as a great achievement already on "Discovery"

              Corner shot is very well bought by special forces around the world, including Russia. wink



              Quote: avt
              Yes, we have a lot of things painted in what we, in the opinion of "probable friends" is not necessary.

              With ADS, everything is much simpler. We will wait a year and see how many orders will be received for it.

              Quote: avt
              And here is a wonderful example of a weapon capable, when using specialized ammunition, to work in water.

              Is there a camera on it? GPS? MP3 player? Internet connection? Since everything in one is necessary and think about it ... laughing
            2. Marine One
              Marine One 6 February 2014 22: 50
              +5
              Quote: avt
              Really a battle swimmer? In practice, engaged in sabotage and anti-sabotage work? Or just a great weapon specialist?


              Interfering in your dialogue. If that, that same swimmer. It was. Recently. SF, MCI. On the subject of the article. The idea is generally interesting, but judging by factory advertising and YouTube videos is useless. We must take and try. Therefore, all the discussions here are just a concussion. In view of the tactical specifics of the work of the specialized units of the SPN, I treat universal devices with a fair amount of suspicion. Having the opportunity to choose, I prefer for water that which is tested in water, and for sushi, that which is tested and intended for land. In general, the less a group has to shoot at a task, the greater its final effectiveness.
              1. avt
                avt 7 February 2014 10: 04
                +1
                Quote: Marine One
                . We must take and try.

                Naturally! Therefore, there are military tests. By the way, this unit flashed in the hands of a fighter at a ceremonial performance on the day of the VIF at the Pacific Fleet, the roll looks noticeable.
                Quote: Marine One
                So you already agree with me that a weapon is the maximum for sabotage and counter-sabotage work, that is, a "niche"?

                No, I don’t agree. But I won’t argue - I personally did not hold and did not use it in my hands.
                Quote: Professor
                Corner shot is very well bought by special forces around the world, including Russia

                laughing Ayayayay! It was they, from an oversight, from savagery, that they simply did not understand the futility of the technical tricks you noted.
                1. Professor
                  Professor 7 February 2014 11: 09
                  0
                  Quote: avt
                  No, I don’t agree. But I won’t argue - I personally did not hold and did not use it in my hands.

                  That's great. soldier

                  Quote: avt
                  Ayayayay! It was they, from an oversight, from savagery, that they simply did not understand the futility of the technical tricks you noted.

                  Not at all like that. Corner shot filled his scanty niche. That's all.
                  hi
      2. tellurium
        tellurium 7 February 2014 11: 03
        0
        Citizen Etzrael is clearly "not indifferent" to the success of Russian gunsmiths and Russia as a whole.
  7. Ilya Mikhalych
    Ilya Mikhalych 6 February 2014 11: 38
    0
    Cool machine, you can’t say anything. Although advertising the machine without showing its performance characteristics is somehow not entirely honest.
  8. Zubr
    Zubr 6 February 2014 13: 32
    +3
    Well what can I say? GOOD FELLOWS !!! Of course it’s easier to wear, spec. ammunition and full-time 5.45x39 ammunition and this THIS WONDERFUL MFP. Well, they took the standard 4 ammunition horn specials. ammunition and the rest are standard, given that the density of water is 800 times higher than air, the conditions for hand-to-hand combat under water are rather difficult, and the main thing is to detect the enemy at a distance of up to 25 meters and hit him with specials. ammunition. Yes, a fairy tale! Well, nothing will be brought to the series, since they have already entered trial operation. And at the expense of exports, generally do not sell such technologies! good

    WELL FOR OUR ENGINEERS ... !! drinks
  9. Bruevich
    Bruevich 6 February 2014 14: 17
    +2
    My amateurish opinion. A good weapon is always beautifully beautiful and inspires confidence. This sample is just a sight for sore eyes. I just want to keep it in my hands.
  10. Duke
    Duke 6 February 2014 17: 01
    +2
    TTX automatic machine
    Weight with a grenade launcher - 4,6 kg;
    Length - 685 mm;
    Cartridges 5,45x39 mm: PSP-UD - for underwater shooting, 7N6 - for firing in the air;
    Rate of fire - 800 rounds / min;
    Landing range on land - 500 m.
  11. desertfox
    desertfox 6 February 2014 17: 40
    +2
    Quote: Professor
    This is from the area of ​​very "necessary" bells and whistles like these.

    And what did not please the curved machine gun?
    They seem to have done a lot for installation in firing points.
  12. housekeeper
    housekeeper 6 February 2014 17: 43
    +1
    Everything is great, but one thing is not clear - why immediately offer for export? Around some friends and threats to expect from nowhere or thirst for profit above all?
    1. family tree
      family tree 6 February 2014 21: 04
      +1
      Quote: little house
      Everything is great, but one thing is not clear - why immediately offer for export? Around some friends and threats to expect from nowhere or thirst for profit above all?

      A year or two, the same Chinese will begin to do this, shooting, a simple thing and a long time to encrypt the cartridge will not work. You have to have time to spin and sell more expensive. There will be money, something new can be brought to mind, it’s still possible to come up with for free, but to make it work properly, the process is expensive and time-consuming request
  13. AlNikolaich
    AlNikolaich 6 February 2014 21: 09
    0
    Quote: Ascetic
    Patent
    Small arms cartridge for underwater shooting
    The cartridge consists of a standard steel cartridge case of an automatic cartridge of 5,45-mm caliber, a charge of gunpowder grade SENf 45 / 3,98 * and a special bullet weighing 16 grams * of tungsten alloy. According to public information, during state tests it was found that at a depth of up to 5 meters, the maximum range of destruction of ammunition by the PSP is 25 meters, and the energy of a bullet at a depth of 5 meters and a range of 20 meters is 167 J. The initial speed of a bullet when shooting in air is 333 m / s *.

    Very interested in the possibility of firing this cartridge from a conventional machine gun, for example, the AK-74 under water. I think it should grow together! It is unlikely that the ADS cuts another step, or the shape is very different.
    1. Massik
      Massik 6 February 2014 22: 14
      +3
      Hi water hammer! And the rupture of the receiver ...
    2. stasimar
      stasimar 6 February 2014 22: 31
      0
      The gas outlet, which received two operating modes - “water / land”, was also finalized. The shooter selects a mode depending on the environment in which he operates.
    3. Marine One
      Marine One 6 February 2014 22: 57
      +3
      With luck, the half-machine will fly up, half-machine down. In case of failure, the swimmer will grab the forehead with a part of the machine. There is also a chance that a potential adversary will choke with laughter.
  14. Massik
    Massik 6 February 2014 22: 29
    +2
    The cocking handle is embarrassing, judging by the video, it drives the air in front of the face only in this way, and under water (which is usually not ** ha crystal clear) this thing will constantly stir up in the face of the shooter. If the massive lever next to the butt is a translator or a safety catch, then it is almost impossible to reach it without releasing the pistol grip, not to mention the underwater equipment ... Instead of fencing a garden with a "bullpup", we would have developed a classic automatic machine for the same cartridge ...
    1. Garunu4
      Garunu4 7 February 2014 00: 29
      0
      They, in my opinion, did the hilt and trigger incorrectly, it was necessary to make it open and large on older samples so that it could work in the hands, because even in summer we have cold water, we don’t dive in a wet wetsuit. A dry or insulated gloves, they are quite weighty in the hole the finger will crawl poorly.
  15. Doznanied
    Doznanied 7 February 2014 09: 28
    0
    Most likely, all the necessary improvements will be made to eliminate the "childhood diseases", including according to the results of practical exploitation in the troops.
    In general, there is joy and pride for our designers. good
  16. Novik
    Novik 8 February 2014 03: 45
    +1
    In general, yes.
    There are bullpup lovers and critics.
    Personally, in general, I like this direction of development.
    As an example - "AUG", both externally (design aesthetics) and thoughtfulness (submachine gun, assault rifle, automatic rifle, automatic rifle, light machine gun, high-precision automatic rifle) - especially the solution of single and automatic fire, pulled the trigger - single, even stronger - automatic good)
    When we learn to consider the money / efficiency formula, something like that will be adopted.
    We need a single set of weapons that can be used in various conditions.
    As for the "ADS" - in my opinion, it remains only (?) To refine the ergonomics, - "an ugly duckling, in a transitional age."
    smile
  17. slon53
    slon53 13 February 2014 09: 21
    0
    You can’t sell to potential opponents. This is not a plane or a submarine, you won’t get a lot of money, but you will substitute your combat swimmers and special forces for a blow from your own weapon. In general, it is better to call less on special weapons, because these weapons are special.