Military Review

Soviet-American War 1944 year

108
Few have heard, but in November 1944, the Soviet Union almost went to war against the United States. It was on the territory of Yugoslavia liberated from the fascists, and the famous pilot, Hero of the Soviet Union, and later Marshal A. Koldunov took the most direct part in the events.


Damned imperialists!

This is a very little-studied episode of the Second World War. In the West, they prefer not to remember about him at all. In the USSR about this history It was possible to read only one source - the memoirs of the military pilot N. A. Shmelev “From Low Altitude”, published in the 1966 year. It follows from the book that in the morning of November 7 1944, at the airfield of the city of Niš (Serbia), Soviet pilots from the 707 th assault air regiment were going to celebrate the famous Soviet revolutionary holiday, when they suddenly began to swoop down on strange aircraft and drop bombs. At first, the intruders were mistaken for German “frames” - this is how we called Fokke-Wulfs FW-1941 from 189. It was strange: firstly, the “frame” was a high-altitude reconnaissance aircraft, not intended for ground attack airfields. Secondly, several dozen (!) “Focke-Wolfs” at once were simply nowhere for the Germans to take.

However, the proceedings decided to postpone until later. An emergency link from the neighboring 866 th Fighter Aviation Regiment was flown into the air. In the first attack they managed to “fill up” two strangers. Gradually, the entire regiment took off, and a real “dog fight” began in the air - a maneuverable battle at low altitudes. Another “frame” was shot down, and our Yak-3 was killed. But soon the Soviet pilots noticed with amazement that on the wings and fuselages of the enemy aircraft were drawn not black German crosses, but white stars of the USAF! Someone even remembered the designation of the American "frame" - the heavy fighter P-38 "Lightning". On the same machine, only in the version of the photo reconnaissance, Saint Exupery, who was known to everyone, flew and died.

The best ass-regiment, Hero of the Soviet Union, Captain Alexander Koldunov (46 air victories towards the end of the war) also participated in this battle. The one who in 1987 in the midst of perestroika will be removed from the post of commander-in-chief of the air defense forces for the scandalous landing of M. Rust on Red Square.

It was he who, risking his life, flew up to the leading American to demonstrate the red stars on his plane. Be that as it may, the Americans have gone home. But not for long. Literally half an hour later, another group of American planes attacked a convoy of Soviet troops that was passing through Niš along the highway. They also managed to drive away, but they managed to do things. As a result of the raid, the commander of the rifle corps, General Stepanov, died. His last words were: "Damned imperialists!"

7: 3 in our favor

“The American command,” the author of the memoirs writes, “of course, apologized to ours for this“ incident ”. But what's the use of these false words? They do not return our dear comrades who died during the treacherous raid of the "allies."

Soviet-American War 1944 year

In general, the tonality of the book by N. Shmelev left no doubt that it was seriously edited in the Main Political Directorate of the SA and Navy. Thoughts could even appear: didn’t they write this episode during the years of the Cold War? But suddenly the confirmation came from a completely different side - from the former Yugoslavia.

As you know, the Soviet troops helped the National Liberation Army of Yugoslavia expel the Nazi invaders from the country. Under the agreement that 16 of October 1944 was signed by the Yugoslav Marshal Tito and the Soviet Marshal Tolbukhin, parts of our 17 Air Army received the right to use any local aerodromes. For this, the Soviet Air Force had to train Yugoslav pilots and mechanics in the operation of Yak-3 fighters and Il-2 attack aircraft. One of these groups was based at the airfield of the city of Niš.

Veterans of the Yugoslav division shared their memories of the incident in the Belgrade newspaper Politika from November 9 1988 - just on the 44 anniversary of those events.


According to them, on November 7 1944, a group of B-6 American Mitchell bomber B-25 bomber, accompanied by Lightning fighters, suddenly appeared above the 30 th Guards Rifle Corps of the Red Army north of the city of Nis. Total aircraft were pieces of 31. The Americans very accurately bombed the head of the column: the corps commander died, the 37 soldier and officer, another 9 man was injured. A group of X-Numx Yak-3 fighters took off from the airfield, one of which was immediately shot down. In the air, a fierce battle ensued. The partisan political commissar, who was assigned to the Niski aerodrome, brought to the attention of the personnel that only 7 of American and 3 of Soviet aircraft were shot down. At the same time, Americans lost 14 pilots.

If you believe the data of the unknown Yugoslav Commissioner, it turns out that the Americans lost 5 single "Lightning" and 2 bomber "Mitchell" with a crew of 5 people. Most likely, these were airplanes from the 15 Air Force of the United States Air Force, which were based in Italy in 1944. According to the latest information, only Lightning fighters participated in that battle from the American side and the number of shot downs among them was no more than three.

By mutual consent of the parties, the short "Soviet-American war" was forgotten. If it happened closer to the spring of 1945, when the crack between the allies in the anti-Hitler coalition was much wider, things could turn differently ... But for one of the heroes of the events described, Alexander Koldunov, this meeting with the American pilots was not the last. In 1948, he received the second Hero Star just for the downed Americans, when the Cold War had already begun. But that's another story ...

From the Editor "Courage". Here is the current information about those events: "November 7 1944, in the area of ​​the city of Nis in Yugoslavia, two groups (a total of 27 aircraft) of American Lightning aircraft attacked by convoy the Soviet troops by mistake, and 12 Soviet soldiers and officers were killed, including the commander of the 6 Guards Rifle Corps Guard Major General G.P. Kotov. To repel a raid, 9 fighters, led by captain A. Koldunov, were raised. Risking life, Koldunov approached American aircraft, showing them red stars on the fuselage, but was fired upon, and two Soviet aircraft were shot down. 3 (according to Soviet data) or 2 (according to American data) of the US aircraft were shot down with response fire, including one of the Koldunov himself. In the end, managed to achieve a cessation of the battle - Koldunov almost "put" his plane in front of the leading group of Americans. After the incident, there was a big diplomatic scandal. The Americans recognized the “mistake” and apologized, but the American command downed American planes on the countdown. ”

Based on materials: Sergey Osipov, newspaper "Arguments and Facts" №45, 2004,
Originator:
http://otvaga2004.ru/
108 comments
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  1. Enot-poloskun
    Enot-poloskun 7 February 2014 08: 42
    +40
    Well, ours broke them!

    The Americans attacked suddenly, but ours quickly orientated themselves.

    Perhaps, because of this resistance, Churchill's plan "Unthinkable" was not implemented.

    I do not believe in a random attack by the Americans.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. invisibility
      invisibility 7 February 2014 08: 59
      +29
      The "Unthinkable" plan was not implemented after several moves by the Soviet troops.
      The assault on Berlin is the most important!
      In the West, it seemed that the Red Army was technically weak, physically and morally tired after 4 years of war. The battle for Berlin, poured abundantly cold water on lush heads.
      We shouldn't forget about the redeployment of our troops before the "X" date.
      What suggests, our people knew what these dogs were up to ...
      1. Alex-86
        Alex-86 1 January 2016 22: 55
        0
        Why are Americans dogs? Hmm? The proletarian envy takes for the fact that they turned out to be stronger than the USSR? Well, believe more fairy tales, live in lies, they have not won such a victory over you yet.
    3. Shogun23
      Shogun23 7 February 2014 09: 12
      +8
      The "unthinkable" was canceled because Churchill, by that time was no longer prime minister, and the war with Japan threatened to drag on for a year and a half, and the USSR's help in this war was, oh, how much needed.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. invisibility
        invisibility 7 February 2014 09: 32
        +18
        Quote: Shogun23
        The "unthinkable" was canceled because Churchill, by that time was no longer prime minister

        Do you really think that such operations depend on one person?
        Quote: Shogun23
        and the war with Japan threatened to drag out for a year and a half, and the help of the USSR in this war was oh, how needed.

        The US needed more help.
        The power of the Red Army and the wisdom of the leadership of the USSR — these are the reasons for the failure of this plan!
        1. Shogun23
          Shogun23 7 February 2014 09: 37
          0
          no, but another party came to power, which means a lot.
          DP and without the United States, in your opinion, this most "unthinkable" could happen?
          1. invisibility
            invisibility 7 February 2014 11: 15
            +2
            The party is different, the goals are the same. Plus, do not forget that at that time the US president was Truman, an ardent friend of the USSR.
            I just outlined the main reasons for the failure, the cancellation of this plan.
            1. smile
              smile 7 February 2014 13: 55
              +11
              invisibility
              Despite all his fervent friendliness, it was Truman who put an end to Operation Unthinkable. There are many reasons - one of the bottom, he probably believed that we could be destroyed without entering into a fight with our tank armies - with the help of nuclear weapons. And at that time they simply would not have enough bombs for us, so they decided to postpone it. Also, do not forget that the Americans at that time had another goal - to deprive Britain of colonies and enslave them in a different way. He was not going to give a chance for a renaissance of the British Empire, which was in a very difficult situation.

              About the article. The authors exaggerate the "secrecy" of this episode. I personally read about the incident in Simonov’s front notes as a schoolboy. What kind of secrecy is there in the circulation of Simonov's edition? By the way, the description of the battle is very reliable and fits with modern data. True, there are no Mitchels there. Almost all of our downed ones were destroyed on takeoff, because the first flight took place from an airfield already blocked by the Lightning, under continuous fire. In general, under such circumstances, it was suicidal to take off. no speed. no maneuverability - perfect target. But ours took off. By the way, if one could talk about the fallacy of the first raid, then the second raid was carried out intentionally - they could not help but see the identification marks of our fighters, and nobody canceled the radio. The third group of Lightnings was recalled already on the approach to the airfield, apparently, the rebuff cooled someone's hot heads. In the flight charts of the downed Lightning pilots from the first group, taken by ours from the corpses, it was the airfield that was indicated as the target for the attack ... ours found it instantly.
              1. invisibility
                invisibility 7 February 2014 17: 02
                +3
                smile, welcome!
                I also read that Truman did not decide on a war with the USSR, because of the colossal authority of our country at that time. But their army and generals would not support ...
                But at the expense of the enslavement of Britain because, in my opinion, for the previous years of the war
                have already done this ...
                1. smile
                  smile 7 February 2014 18: 45
                  +2
                  invisibility
                  And you are hello.
                  Yes, sentiment in American society and the army also played a role. I agree.
                  With regard to enslavement - of course, much has already been done - Roosevelt began, but far from all - there were still British troops in all English colonies. The British from quite controlled. And they left there for another ten years. At the same time, the Americans tried to consolidate control over the newly formed countries. Here we were in the way. In fact, the colonial system in that form is buried by us. Now we are weak and colonialism is returning, only the form is different. We will see.
                  1. Ivan_Ivanov
                    Ivan_Ivanov 7 February 2014 19: 21
                    +4
                    To complete the picture. Bust of a hero at home.

                    July 1978 - June 1987 - Commander-in-Chief of the Air Defense Forces of the country. Filmed (like so many) as a result of a rigged and planned provocation - the landing of M. Rust on Red Square. Member of the Central Committee of the CPSU.
              2. The comment was deleted.
              3. blizart
                blizart 9 February 2014 13: 52
                0
                And Savitsky has descriptions of not the most friendly actions of the Allies, and the same result broke the opponent to the fullest. And it was unthinkable only for them, I think no one on this site is in doubt how this operation would end in Brest ... French
          2. The comment was deleted.
      3. vladim.gorbunow
        vladim.gorbunow 7 February 2014 18: 29
        +1
        Cause and effect are reversed. On May 8, 2 million Englishmen came to Churchill's residence to wave a pen to him. Any political strategist will explain that the absolute victory of the Conservatives in the July 5 elections, of which he was the leader, is guaranteed. Meanwhile, on May 23, the Flensburg government of Doenitz was arrested on an order from the American and Soviet administration of Germany, with weak attempts by the British to resist. Then the disarmed Germans were driven into American concentration camps, known for the widespread deaths from hunger and dysentery. That is, Operation Unthinkable was stopped on May 23. As a result of this military-political defeat, Churchill lost his post. The main reason was the occupation of England by the American Armed Forces at the beginning of 44 and the control of its territory. Which Churchill fought so fiercely against right up to the Tehran Conference.
    4. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 7 February 2014 09: 21
      +22
      Quote: Enot-poloskun
      Perhaps, because of this resistance, Churchill's plan "Unthinkable" was not implemented.

      As far as I remember, the "unthinkable" plan was not implemented because it clearly showed that an attempt by the Anglo-American armies to fight a little with the Red Army would turn out to be truly inconceivable people for the proud Anglo-Saxon nation, and the Allied forces would roll from the borders of Germany to the beaches of Normandy MUCH faster than they got to before them laughing
      In general, I must say that the British generals-developers of the "unthinkable" cannot be denied in common sense laughing laughing
    5. Sakhalininsk
      Sakhalininsk 7 February 2014 10: 28
      +13
      Quote: Enot-poloskun
      Well, ours broke into them! The Americans attacked suddenly, but ours quickly got their bearings. Perhaps, because of this resistance, Churchill's plan "Unthinkable" was not implemented. I do not believe in an accidental attack by the Americans.


      There is nothing in the world worse than friendship arrogant-Saxons. Having such allies, even enemies are not needed. Therefore, as historical experience shows, a blatant sax can only be good when it stinks hanging out with a noose around its neck.
      1. Alex-86
        Alex-86 1 January 2016 23: 07
        0
        What is this historical experience? Again from the head we take? As enemies, the Anglo-Saxons are much worse than as friends. An example is the collapse of the Soviet Union.
    6. gsg955
      gsg955 7 February 2014 10: 36
      +1
      It would be nice to repeat the Yankees.
    7. Letun
      Letun 7 February 2014 11: 15
      +8
      Quote: Enot-poloskun
      Well, ours broke them!
      The Americans attacked suddenly, but ours quickly orientated themselves.

      Well, by that time, ours had already fought with the strongest pilots of that time for 3 years, and the Americans only thought that they had fought, so the result is not surprising fellow
    8. velikoros-xnumx
      velikoros-xnumx 7 February 2014 12: 39
      +7
      Quote: Enot-poloskun
      I do not believe in a random attack by the Americans.

      Well, how are you not ashamed to say such a thing about such a respectable state that brings the light of democracy to people angry .If they happen, and if some kind of trouble happens, then it is strictly by accident. Korea happened by chance, then Vietnam, quite by accident with twice Iraq, then Afghanistan and Libya the list goes on with smaller accidents almost endlessly. The question is what to do with them for these accidents? Understand, forgive? soldier
    9. nik.lankaster
      nik.lankaster 7 February 2014 15: 03
      +8
      I do not believe in a random attack by the Americans.


      And you are doing the right thing. After the battle, a map was discovered in one of the downed Lightnings, in which this airfield in Yugoslavia was designated as the target of the attack. In such things it is impossible to be mistaken.
    10. Fedya
      Fedya 7 February 2014 22: 50
      +4
      By the way, Kozhedub, too, filled one American over Berlin! He fired at him, and Kozhedub angry landed him, and this victory was not counted by our little pilot! Even ordered so far to keep quiet.
    11. Alex-86
      Alex-86 1 January 2016 23: 03
      0
      An unthinkable plan - a staff study of a possible war. Everybody and the Soviet side had the same plan. A normal working moment for the General Staff. The "Unthinkable" plan was not put into effect because the plan itself says so: British staff officers came to the conclusion that victory was not guaranteed due to the USSR's superiority in divisions. Have not read, but condemn?
      And also the general. Interestingly, we have a four-star Gerasimov at the same level as you?
  2. Ilja 22
    Ilja 22 7 February 2014 08: 45
    +21
    Stunned !! here are bastards, they have done things under the guise, and I'm sorry, but excuse me from them, 12 people cannot be returned ..
    And forever they stick their nose where it’s not necessary, two-faced, hypocritical, deceitful, selfish! But all the same pi..k received !!
    1. Serg 122
      Serg 122 7 February 2014 12: 38
      +2
      There was a battle check, or a provocation. We got pomardasam, in return ours didn’t bomb them - that’s why they hushed up ...
  3. Yarik
    Yarik 7 February 2014 08: 51
    +16
    From the times of the Wild West, amers have a habit of first being a naughty and then thinking. Dumb all the way, you can’t say otherwise. fool
  4. Shogun23
    Shogun23 7 February 2014 08: 54
    +7
    Other similar cases are known, and even indicative trials of American pilots who attacked Soviet aircraft.
    1. 0255
      0255 7 February 2014 11: 21
      +3
      maybe their commanders themselves ordered the bombing of Soviet troops, and then they themselves condemned those pilots?
  5. CHILD
    CHILD 7 February 2014 08: 55
    +7
    And now they fall under the "friendly" fire .... Kozhedub, as far as I heard, also grappled with the Americans over Germany ... everything happens, unfortunately ...
  6. bif
    bif 7 February 2014 08: 58
    +9
    The Yankees constantly "feel" our troops and the authorities' readiness to give an adequate answer, this has always been the case, and this is happening now on the Maidan ... Feeling the weakness, they will certainly take advantage of this
  7. samoletil18
    samoletil18 7 February 2014 08: 58
    +20
    but the downed American planes were not counted by our command by our pilots. ”

    Kozhedub replenished his combat score with two American fighter jets F-51 Mustang, who mistakenly tried to attack him over Berlin, but were immediately shot down while repelling the attack. As Ivan Nikitovich himself told me, 17 of April 1945 of the year, having met the “Flying Fortresses” of the allies in the air, he withdrew a couple of “Messerschmitts” away from them, but after a second he himself was attacked by American fighter jets.

    Kozhedub survived an even hotter battle with the Americans just before Victory Day, when a squadron of Flying Fortress bombers loaded to the eyeballs, ignoring warning shots, entered the space of the Soviet occupation zone. Having driven three multi-motor giants into the ground, the major put the others to flight, but they were not allowed to include them in the official list of their victories. The regiment commander Pavel Chupikov just joked that he would have to fight with the Americans very soon, and on the very first day of the next war, their downed cars would be credited back to his account.
    http://topwar.ru/27942-kak-ivan-kozhedub-amerikancev-sbil.html
    1. Shogun23
      Shogun23 7 February 2014 09: 07
      -4
      This is one of the most common myths. Kozhedub did not shoot down these planes, and the FKP footage, which they provide as evidence, could not belong to him. Let's pay attention to the lower group of pictures - a PTB is clearly visible under the wing of the mustang. At the same time, according to Ivan Nikitich, "Mustangs" attacked first, and during an attack in American practice (and not only in American practice), the tanks were supposed to be dropped. But this is indirect. But on the film you can see the inscription Zeiss Ikon, that is, the branch of the German company Karl Zeiss, but the American FKP Bell & Howell GSAP 7mm camera was on the La-176 16 GIAP.

      And this is not to mention the fact that all the P-51s that were lost that day were far from the location of the 176th Hyalap.

      In the legend, it is also said that one of the pilots was a black man. But this could not be, negro pilots served only in the 99th Pursuit Squadron and the 332th exterminate. group - 100, 301, 302 squadrons. They all flew over Italy, and covered the Liberators of the 15th Army. In principle, they could not appear on the Eastern Front.

      Somehow, without diminishing the merits of our ace, it should be noted that human passions, including ambitions, were not alien to him.
      1. badger1974
        badger1974 8 February 2014 01: 11
        +3
        on Soviet planes there was a PAU-22 machine gun and later its modifications, on the r-40 modifications there was a bell, the storyboard facts were rigged, only the hit or miss is recorded on the frames, the camera numbers are a modern richness, you are just a chemist who seeks recognition, even any give Zeiss, there will not be a camera number, at that time it was unrealistic, but you can determine the number of the enemy being attacked, about Kozhedub it was a bylina and not a fable,
        1. Shogun23
          Shogun23 8 February 2014 08: 57
          0
          These photographs are presented precisely as proof of Kozhkdub's shooting down of the Mustangs, but since you yourself say that this is a fraud, what proof can this be? And what is characteristic, the film was found after the death of Kozhedub, well, sorry, but not a single historian will take their word for it, without taking into account the facts, even three times a hero of the Soviet Union.
          1. badger1974
            badger1974 8 February 2014 11: 22
            0
            I didn’t talk about paddocking, but talked about the fact that there were no markers on the PAH22 camera, and it was the PAH 22 that were on Soviet-made cars, at the expense of the incident, the shot-down ampilots themselves spoke about this in detail, Vanya limited himself to rattling, and in general such troubles met often in 1945, about a slightly unincreted incident, in large quantities, the 611 IAP commander Isaenko over Balaton also mentions
            1. Shogun23
              Shogun23 8 February 2014 14: 39
              0
              Quote: badger1974
              I didn’t talk about paddocking, but I said that there were no markers on the PAH22 camera, and it was PAHs 22 on Soviet-made machines
              And I'm talking about the fact that in this case, these images cannot be proof of the shooting down of the Americans, moreover, the Americans say that “they fired from a distance and flew away,” there were no downed planes.
              Well, the fact that collisions in the air were not uncommon, no one denies, and this was largely due to the fact that the silhouettes of the aircraft of the Allies were unfamiliar to us, and vice versa, the silhouettes of our aircraft were unfamiliar to the Allies.
              1. badger1974
                badger1974 9 February 2014 21: 46
                0
                here I have had storyboards of the allied victim of Kozhedub, but there are only silhouettes and the frames are smeared, which is normal, in general, and you provided clear frames and with a marker in Latin
                and on the account of the second, there is no doubt here, although post-war clashes in the Far East only reinforce the view that all the confrontation is ahead
      2. sanych your division
        sanych your division 8 February 2014 01: 37
        -5
        Kozhedub on La did not fly over Berlin. Learn the materiel.
        1. sds555
          sds555 8 February 2014 01: 48
          +2
          sanych your division At the end of June 1944, the Soviet ace was transferred by the deputy commander to the famous 176th Guards Fighter Aviation Regiment. This compound, the first in the Soviet Air Force, in August 1944 received the latest La-7 fighters.

          By the middle of 1944, the captain I.N. Kozhedub brought the number of sorties to 256 and downed enemy aircraft to 48.

          For exemplary fulfillment of combat missions of the command, courage, courage and heroism shown in the struggle against the German - fascist invaders, by the Decree of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR of August 19, 1944, he was awarded the title of the second Gold Star medal.

          Having mastered the new fighter, Kozhedub since September 1944, already in Poland, on the left wing of the 1st Belorussian Front, is fighting in the "free hunt" method. First he received a 3-gun version of the fighter, and then switched to a regular 2-gun version. It is this aircraft with the tail number "27", on which Ivan Kozhedub won his 17 last victories, is now an adornment of the collection of the Monino Aviation Museum.
          And on what did the Major Kozhedub fly in the 176th Guards and IAP in 1945, if not a secret? In my opinion, you need to learn the materiel
          p-51
        2. Shogun23
          Shogun23 8 February 2014 09: 16
          0
          Kozhedub consisted of the 19th IAP, which in June 1944 began to rearm on La-7, while renaming it 176 GIAP.
          In April 1945, the 176th GIAP became part of the 265th IAD, the 3rd IAK, the 16th VA of the 1st Belorussian Front, and together with the aircraft of the 4th VA of the 2nd Belorussian Front and the 2nd VA 1- th Ukrainian front, as well as aircraft of the 18th long-range aircraft and the Polish Air Force, participated in the Berlin operation.
    2. aleshka
      aleshka 7 February 2014 21: 38
      +1
      Glory to KOZHEDUBU !!!!
  8. Shogun23
    Shogun23 7 February 2014 08: 59
    +8
    In general, an attack by planes on friendly troops was not such a rarity. For example La-5 / La-7 were very often attacked, due to the similarity of silhouettes with the Fw-190, Or remember how Maurice Schall from the Normandie regiment shot down Vasily Arkhipov by mistake.
    1. Aaron Zawi
      Aaron Zawi 7 February 2014 09: 48
      +5
      Quote: Shogun23
      In general, an attack by planes on friendly troops was not such a rarity. For example La-5 / La-7 were very often attacked, due to the similarity of silhouettes with the Fw-190, Or remember how Maurice Schall from the Normandie regiment shot down Vasily Arkhipov by mistake.

      In 1982, a tank battalion of General Kahalani's division broke through well beyond its assigned lines. Four "Phantoms" flying out to search for Syrian tanks found him and bombed him, mistaking him for the retreating Syrians. About thirty Israeli tankers were killed. Unfortunately no one is insured.
    2. badger1974
      badger1974 8 February 2014 01: 16
      0
      Maurice Shal shot down Arkhipov by air reception "scissors", it is strange how you kept silent which of the Germans died in this attack on the PV of bombers?
  9. melman
    melman 7 February 2014 08: 59
    +2
    Such cases are not uncommon, even according to Kozhedub's recollections, he shot down two "mustangs" over Berlin (they flew into the zone of responsibility of our fighters and shot down one), the regiment commander told him "we will write it down for the next war," and so it happened!
  10. Yun Klob
    Yun Klob 7 February 2014 09: 01
    +14
    English is time to ban, it disfigures the brain.
  11. drossel81
    drossel81 7 February 2014 09: 02
    +6
    Rather, the Americans wanted to check the reaction, as a result, they snatched it from the back of the head and turned on the fool, which for them goes without saying
    1. aksakal
      aksakal 7 February 2014 09: 30
      +9
      Quote: drossel81
      Rather, the Americans wanted to check the reaction, as a result, they snatched it from the back of the head and turned on the fool, which for them goes without saying

      - be that as it may - the Americans did not dare to direct aggression, and they did the right thing - such probing (later in Korea, Vietnam and others) give them very valuable information, which can be formulated like this: "with direct aggression snip off the most do not indulge! ". Such probing led to the fact that America is still alive, and the Russian tricolor is not developing like a white house. Cautious, devils. But the inevitable will happen anyway, whether they feel there or not feel they immediately climb - there will be a tricolor over the White House, this is a historical inevitability.
      1. abrakadabre
        abrakadabre 7 February 2014 13: 08
        +2
        tricolor over the White House to be, this is a historical inevitability.
        No, not to be. But over a pile of smoked rubble, which used to be the White House, it will certainly be.
  12. Vladimirets
    Vladimirets 7 February 2014 09: 05
    +18
    "12 Soviet soldiers and officers were killed, including the commander of the 6th Guards Rifle Corps of the Guard, Major General GP Kotov."

    People drank a dash on the fronts of the Great Patriotic War, so stupidly, they were bombed by woodpeckers.
  13. Evgan
    Evgan 7 February 2014 09: 15
    +3
    It would be interesting, of course, to look at Amer’s documents about what happened ...
    Anything could have happened - both the desire to "probe" our troops, and a banal mistake. The only thing, it seems to me, that it would be more logical for the British to do it - in 1944 Roosevelt was still alive, known for his relatively more loyal attitude towards us than Churchill and, subsequently, Truman.
  14. Dazdranagon
    Dazdranagon 7 February 2014 09: 25
    +3
    Yeah, the Americans never differed in intelligence and quick wit ...
  15. Freemason
    Freemason 7 February 2014 09: 26
    +2
    All the same, my grandfather didn’t lie .. many did not believe him. Thanks to the author for the article. It’s a pity that Grandfather cannot read this already. Surely would smile ...
  16. Flatter
    Flatter 7 February 2014 09: 33
    +2
    In his book "Adler means an eagle", the Hero of the Soviet Union, fighter pilot N Skomorokhov, mentions these episodes very briefly. The frequent American attacks on Soviet planes provoked the pilots' legitimate indignation. The division commander advised, otherwise he could not, teach them a lesson. "Well, we gave them there! "After this, the attacks stopped. The Americans using heavy fighters had no chance of winning against the La-5, led by experienced pilots. Skomorokhov was on friendly terms with the Vysotsky family, who wrote a famous series of songs about pilots
  17. Standard Oil
    Standard Oil 7 February 2014 09: 37
    +5
    Well, the Americans foolishly could and unconsciously attack the Soviet troops, from above they do not see who is swarming there on the ground, for the Americans it was enough to know that there are no American troops on this territory, and they did not care for the rest. And perhaps it was the initiative of the American command in Europe or American intelligence, but the initiative is local, for the same Roosevelt was clearly sincerely trying to establish friendly relations with the USSR, but what about the "hawks" of some Roosevelt?
  18. Prohor
    Prohor 7 February 2014 09: 55
    -1
    It seems to me that it was just a tragic mistake of the Americans.
    But it’s not clear how the fighters bombed it.
    1. Fitter65
      Fitter65 7 February 2014 10: 52
      +3
      P-38 "Lightning" could be used as a fighter-bomber, provided
      bombs weighing 2000 pounds (908 kg) up to 10 unguided missiles. For example, the Pe-2 could carry up to 1000 kg, IL-2 up to 600 kg. Like all fighters, they dived from a dive, occasionally from horizontal flight. At the end of the war We had practice, La-5/7 often flew with bombs.
    2. Dazdranagon
      Dazdranagon 7 February 2014 11: 38
      +1
      Yaki also hung bombs. hi
      1. Fitter65
        Fitter65 7 February 2014 12: 26
        +3
        There was even a bomber modification of the Yak-9b, a bomb load of 400 kg (4x100 kg) was located behind the cockpit.
        1. REZMovec
          REZMovec 7 February 2014 18: 13
          +1
          Not the Yak-9B, but the Yak-7B ...
          1. Alex 241
            Alex 241 7 February 2014 18: 19
            +3
            Yak-9b, FAB-100 bombing, and
            128 anti-tank PTAB. When bombing from such a height, the Yak-9B would have big problems with accuracy.
    3. Spstas1
      Spstas1 7 February 2014 16: 33
      +3
      In the cockpit of the downed American Lightning, a map was found showing the exact targets of the strikes. And one more nuance - American planes took off from the Bari airbase, where they were based in conjunction with Soviet fighters providing air cover for Tito's troops. So the pilots knew very well HOW our Yaks looked (the Yak-9DD was based on Bari).
  19. Fitter65
    Fitter65 7 February 2014 10: 13
    +1
    "... At first, the intruders were mistaken for German" frames "- this is how we called the" Focke-Wulfs "FW-1941 since 189. It was strange: firstly, the" frame "was a high-altitude reconnaissance aircraft, not intended for attack airfields ... "
    The FW-189 was a tactical reconnaissance aircraft, had a practical ceiling of 7300m (that is, it does not belong to the high-altitude category even with a stretch). The first, single, "frames" appeared on the Eastern Front in November 1941. The mass rearmament of reconnaissance detachments on the FW-189 began only in the spring of 1942. As of 1.09.42/174/1000, there were 3000 "frames" on the Eastern Front. The standard operating height of the reconnaissance aircraft was 1944m, with strong opposition from the MZA, the working height rose to 200m. In March 17.04.1945, several "frames" were converted into night fighters. Very rarely "frames" were involved in bombing strikes, bomb load 1944 kg (for example, a raid on Soviet troops on the night of 189/8.05.1945/189). In the summer of XNUMX, the surviving FW-XNUMXs were transferred to the night reconnaissance detachments. The last loss of the "frame" was recorded XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX. At the beginning of production of the FW-XNUMX, its assault version was also designed, but it did not go beyond the construction of several samples. This was by the time a "high-altitude reconnaissance".
    About the article itself, there’s nothing to add, especially since this misunderstanding with the Americans’ attack by our military forces has already been described and discussed for the first time.
    1. REZMovec
      REZMovec 7 February 2014 18: 22
      0
      In March 1944, several "frames" were converted into night fighters.

      What are night fighters ??? What is the speed of "fortresses" and "Lancasters"? And what about the "frame"? And the weapons? It was a reconnaissance artillery coordinator.
      1. Roman 1977
        Roman 1977 7 February 2014 18: 26
        +2
        Ordinary, night fighters Fw. 189 Behelfsnachtjoger. Since the beginning of 1944, some serial FW.189A-1s began to be equipped with the FuG.212C-1 "Litchenstein" radar with a conventional antenna group in the form of a large four-fold dipole, mounted in the bow of the crew nacelle, which precluded the possibility of placing there any effective fighter weapons. For air combat, the upper pivot mount with a 7,9 mm MG.15 machine gun or with a coaxial 7,9 mm MG.81Z machine gun was dismantled, and instead of it a rigidly fixed 20 mm MG.151 / 20 automatic cannon was installed. It was mounted tilted up and slightly forward, similar to the "Schrage Musik" ("Jazz Music") system found on most Luftwaffe night fighters.
        The first two fighters entered service with the 100 NJG1943 night fighter squadron, formed in Bryansk in August 1944, in March 1. Then, starting in May, they began regularly in small quantities to enter service mainly with the first staffel of squadron 100./NJG189. By June, the total number of FW.100A fighters in service with the "hundredth" squadron reached eight. Then in August, five of them were transferred to the second group II./NJG189. Unfortunately, there is no information about the effectiveness of the FW.2 as a night fighter. These machines also do not appear in the memoirs of Soviet pilots. What successes these honored fighters achieved in the field of fighting the U-1945 night bombers remained unclear. Their last rare appearances were recorded in February-March 30 in the area of ​​the Danzig, Witzkerstrand, Greifswald airfields. In total, about 189 copies of the FW.XNUMXA were converted into night fighters.
        http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fww2/fw189.html

        1. badger1974
          badger1974 8 February 2014 01: 46
          0
          you are actually poorly informed about the actions of the night fighters of the backlash on the Eastern Front, in fact, the "owls" were not involved in night attacks on Soviet bombers, they brought more than a thousand victories, as you correctly noted, the NJG100, but they were armed with Ju-88 and Do -217 and BF-110, partly Ns-111, FV-198 wanted to use, but heavy equipment and power did not allow it to be used in the fight against DB-3f and Boston Soviets !!!!!
          among the well-known "night lights" backlash-Prince Wigetstein (Ju-88), Frankzi (BF-110), and one more (but I forgot, I'll find it) but also on BF-110, the owl was ineffective
  20. Kovrovsky
    Kovrovsky 7 February 2014 10: 18
    +2
    With such "friends" and enemies are not needed!
  21. Petergut
    Petergut 7 February 2014 11: 19
    +2
    Damned imperialists!
  22. Wurger
    Wurger 7 February 2014 11: 20
    -1
    "Damned imperialists" - the last words? Very unlikely. I suppose it was written down from the words of some political instructor.
    1. 0255
      0255 7 February 2014 11: 40
      +2
      Quote: Wurger
      "Damned imperialists" - the last words? Very unlikely. I suppose it was written down from the words of some political instructor.

      What else did the Soviet commander have to say?
      1. Wurger
        Wurger 7 February 2014 13: 21
        .
        Kazly fuck .... they are 300% more truthful. And from the "damned imperialists" political rukovskaya rotten meat carries a mile away. The same pearl as "For Sralina!" Fairy tales. As Stanislavsky said - I DO NOT BELIEVE !!!
        1. smile
          smile 7 February 2014 14: 08
          +4
          Wurger
          Yes, who doubted that a person. who has nothing in the skull. besides the cliches of propaganda hostile to our country and liberal perestroika tales, they are not able to believe in reality.
          This is about people like you we used to tell a poem-horror story in childhood:

          I mom in childhood gouged out his eyes,
          So that I can’t find the jam,
          And I don’t watch TV, I don’t read fairy tales,
          But I sniff and hear well ..... :)))))

          So, I have to upset you. You lost the scent. Absolutely. :))))
          1. 0255
            0255 7 February 2014 14: 16
            +2
            I mom in childhood gouged out his eyes,
            So that I can’t find the jam,
            And I don’t watch TV, I don’t read fairy tales,
            But I sniff and hear well ..... :)))))

            where did you get such a sadistic rhyme?
            1. smile
              smile 7 February 2014 16: 27
              +3
              0255
              These rhymes were very popular during my childhood, along with anecdotes about Vovochka - don't you remember - "a little boy found a machine gun, no one else lives in the village"? :)))
            2. Spstas1
              Spstas1 7 February 2014 16: 41
              +2
              Shame on the jungle! Kamrad, what did you do at school ?! Such lyrics were very common among advanced pioneers :) You need to know the source!
          2. Wurger
            Wurger 7 February 2014 15: 22
            -6
            Lost the scent for what? I am an adult, adequate person who knows that in 99% they don’t say such things before death. This, excuse me, is more like some kind of propaganda campaign on the poster. And what kind of liberal perestroika tales? I’m not a liberal when it comes to state interests. Ie you are seriously trying to convince that before death, a person thought in the style of soviet agitation?
            1. smile
              smile 7 February 2014 16: 48
              +9
              Wurger
              You conscientiously deserved this diagnosis when you blurted out - your quote:

              "... a pearl like" For Sralina! "Fairy tales. As Stanislavsky said - I DO NOT BELIEVE" ..

              Don't you know that people really went on the attack not only for ... Yona's mother, but also for the Motherland and for Stalin? It was actually voiced. And it was the perestroika tales that fiercely denied, the liberals, accordingly, picked up this topic - listen to Svinidze, a comrade in this matter is quite in solidarity with you, he also uses your terminology, like Novodvorskaya, about "soviet propaganda". So, do not be ashamed of your like-minded people in their views on our history - in this matter you are of the same blood with them. Or do you disagree with them? :))) Your words suggest otherwise. You, as they say, either take off the cross, or put on your panties .... :))) By the way, our liberals are absolutely not liberal in spirit - they are for the most cruel tyranny against their opponents in order to understand how intolerant and despotic they are, it's enough just to listen to their opinion about the "putinoids" :)))

              I know what people say before they die ... they say different things, including the like. Even now. Even write on posters, although this is rare. And at a time when people were largely ideological - this was all the time. Read what they wrote on the walls of the Brest Fortress or the Gestapo chambers, read what people wrote when they went to their deaths, knowing that they would only read the notes when they were gone - “consider me a communist” not political instructors invented - it was a mass phenomenon. And you are here with your revelations ... disgusting, honestly.
              I don’t know where your sanity is, it’s not interesting to me. I wonder where your conscience is?
              So, do not turn away from your ideological swamp like-minded people, this is not fair, just face the truth. They, too, lie out of "state interests" ... they just understand from a peculiar way ... :)))
              1. Alex 241
                Alex 241 7 February 2014 16: 53
                +6
                Hi Volodya, here are the primary sources.
                1. Alex 241
                  Alex 241 7 February 2014 17: 03
                  +8
                  "I am a particle of my own,
                  I know this from childhood
                  I come as help
                  I remain dying .. "Photos of the execution of 2 Soviet prisoners of war on the Kola Peninsula. Judging by the shape, this is either the fall of 1941 or the spring of 1942. The photos show well the fortitude of a person who was not afraid of death in the face of the enemy.
                2. smile
                  smile 7 February 2014 18: 51
                  +6
                  Alex 241
                  Hello! Thanks for the pictures - you look and trembles ... I want to put this sensible comrade liberalist face in this wall, into these inscriptions made in fact with blood ...
                  1. Alex 241
                    Alex 241 7 February 2014 19: 00
                    +6
                    Quote: smile
                    sane comrade liberalist
                    And it’s better to lean against a warm wall and put it under the barrel! What would I feel! Volodya, unlike them, we saw these inscriptions alive. And they apparently do not even suspect about their existence! Apparently they smoked ABC book!
              2. Wurger
                Wurger 7 February 2014 20: 59
                -8
                Go to the Dumplings in North Korea and die for it.
                1. smile
                  smile 7 February 2014 22: 21
                  +3
                  Wurger
                  What, the nerves passed? :))) Thanks to such Soviet people with such beliefs, we all and the whole World are at the same time breathing air and scribbling comments on the Internet, this also concerns you ... I won’t go to North Korea, my Motherland is here. I’m not sure that in such a situation I could behave like our ancestors who saved the planet, but I really hope so.
                  But in general, can essentially argue? :))) It would be interesting ... reading statements, akin to yours, you feel like an entomologist. :))) And I just want to pin the butterfly with a needle to the album .... :))))
                  1. Wurger
                    Wurger 8 February 2014 10: 53
                    -8
                    What can you argue with? A person who thinks that people are fighting and dying for ideology, it seems, even at 50, did not get out of his 16-year-old pants. How many prisoners did the Red Army of 41 lose? It was the new growth of "ideological" who gave up. I had to call on older people who, to put it mildly, did not like advice, but were real Russian people. They fought for the Motherland, for each other, for their wives, children and parents, and not for Sralin and Soviet power. They won, not thanks to, but in spite of.
                    About the photo with the captions. We will not discuss everything. Let's take one of the icons of heroism. Brest Fortress. It would seem that there is nothing to think about. An example of fantastic heroism. But here we remember that when did the Soviet authorities appoint them "heroes"? In the 60s, if I'm not mistaken. There were inscriptions, but inscriptions for communism, Sralina and Soviet power appeared much later, when they were writing that very "Soviet" history.
                    Another example. Stalingrad if I'm not mistaken. The explosion covered the exit to the basement. In the basement there are 2 machine gunners and a political instructor, who is already wounded and incapable of combat. Lies against the wall. Two machine gunners hold the street for several days, putting up to 200-ton Germans. As a result, he was awarded the order, and the political instructor was awarded the title of Hero of the Union. This is how the "Soviet" history was written. Well, let's start remembering Rzhev or the defense of Leningrad - there is generally darkness.
                    1. Cynic
                      Cynic 8 February 2014 11: 25
                      +1
                      Quote: Wurger
                      There were inscriptions, but inscriptions for communism, Sralina and Soviet power appeared much later, when they were writing that very "Soviet" history.

                      Hm how is it
                      premonitions did not deceive him

                      So the premonition did not deceive me that such, well, directly reinforced concrete, argument would be used. You also remember the Order of the NPO of the USSR of July 28, 1942 No. 227 to recall for the kit.
                      You are predictable Wurger.
                      Yes, about the nickname, in vain you disown its content, the subconscious is a very tricky thing. And you don’t think, but it’s right there and all the attempts to try to veil your souщa naught.
                      bully
                      1. Wurger
                        Wurger 8 February 2014 13: 21
                        -3
                        Is it predictable? You are no better. Somehow your post does not fit with the discussion of my nickname, the interspersion of Order 227 (what is this for?) To the graffiti on the walls. I personally see an attempt to divert the discussion in a different direction. It's like another quilted jacket you push against the wall with arguments, but he, not knowing what to answer, gives out - "and all the red flach over the Reichstag! You are a fascist!"
                      2. Cynic
                        Cynic 8 February 2014 16: 17
                        +3
                        Quote: Wurger
                        I personally see an attempt to divert the discussion in a different direction. It's like you push another quilted jacket against the wall with arguments, but he gives out not knowing what to answer ... "

                        So the experience of getting on the wort you have. Did not help . Sorry .
                        Yes _
                        You Wurger you can’t see anything, by definition.
                        For people like you, the famous principle of the presumption of innocence is turned into presumption of guilt principle !
                        Quote: Wurger
                        You are a fascist!

                        Are you a fascist ?! You are shamelessly flattered!
                        In Russian there is a more suitable word _ ASSOCIATOR
                        a person who assisted in the commission of a crime by advice, guidance, provision of information, means, etc.
                  2. Shogun23
                    Shogun23 8 February 2014 14: 57
                    +3
                    Quote: Wurger
                    But here we remember that when did the Soviet authorities appoint them "heroes"? In the 60s, if I'm not mistaken.

                    In the 65th year, the Brest Fortress received the title of "Hero-Fortress", however, at the same time (on the same day), "Hero-Cities" appear Moscow, Leningrad, Odessa, Sevastopol, or no one remembered about them either. ...

                    Worth you examples of how they "forgot" and "hushed up" about the Brest Fortress.
                    Minsk Theater Y. Kupala puts Gubarevich’s play “The Citadel of Glory” - “about the immortal feat and unbending courage of the soldiers of the Soviet Army who heroically defended the Brest Fortress” (Ogonyok magazine 1951).

                    “In 1949, Gubarevich wrote the heroic drama“ The Citadel of Glory ”, where for the first time it was told about the defenders of the Brest Fortress ... This play was widely recognized by spectators in the republic and abroad. About 1000 performances have been shown over 36 years. ” (Brest Theater)

                    article by M. Zlatogorov in Ogonyok (1948. No 8. P. 13-14) “Brest Fortress! Early in the morning of June 22, 1941, the first German shells and bombs exploded here. And here the fascists first learned what Soviet stamina and Soviet courage are ”

                    Science and Life, 1949:
                    The troops of the Soviet Army covered themselves with unfading glory, defending Brest, Gomel, Mogilev and other cities of Belarus. Until July 9, 1941, valiant fighters and commanders fought besieged from all sides in the Brest Fortress.

                    Theater, 1953: “BREST FORTRESS” In one of the museums in Moscow, there is a fragment of the Brest fortress wall under the glass with the inscription: “We are dying ... These words were written by courageous defenders of the Brest Fortress, who defended their borders until the last breath ...
                    Change, 1952:
                    The oath-inscription of the group of defenders of the Brest Fortress, discovered in the summer of 1952 on the wall of one of the supporting ... Defenders of the Brest Fortress entered one of the brightest and unforgettable pages in the history of the Great Patriotic War.

                    New World, 1952:
                    A lot of positive feedback was caused by the picture of P. Krivonogov “Defenders of the Brest Fortress”. The artist depicted an unforgettable episode of World War II - the heroic defense of the Brest fortress in the summer of 1941

                    Painting by P. Krivonogov “Defenders of the Brest Fortress” was painted in 1951

                    The first publication on the exploit of the fortress’s garrison - the Krasnaya Zvezda newspaper of June 21, 1942 (!) Published an article by Colonel M. Tolchenov “A year ago in Brest”

                  3. smile
                    smile 8 February 2014 14: 57
                    +5
                    Wurger
                    1. I’m not 50, I’m 42 - why are you like me? :)))
                    2. I did not say that people fought and died for ideology. I told. that people fought for the idea as well. Do you see the difference? Moreover, ideology added motivation and strengthened morale.
                    3. You say that when all of our ideological youth was allegedly captured and the older drafted, who did not like the Soviets, overpowered the war? :))) I.e. did our troops in 44 and 45 consist of elderly haters of Communism and personally Stalin? :))) I don’t even want to comment, the absurdity of this statement is so obvious.
                    4. As for the much-loved Svinidze statement. that they won not thanks. but contrary to. then it is akin to the fact that the car delivers the driver from point A to point B not due to control, but contrary to the efforts of the driver. There is no doubt that without a car the driver will not arrive anywhere. but the car with the shitty driver will also go the wrong way. A striking example is where we went with a humpback driver and a driver.
                    5. Heroes of the Brest Fortress became heroes not when they received recognition, but when they committed their heroic deeds. I don’t want to add anything more.
                    6. With regard to specific examples of rewarding, mistakes and rewarding of those who were not involved were with everyone and always. I’m even too lazy to give examples of rewarding Germans and Americans for non-existent feats. Nevertheless, no one is trying to criticize American mythology within the country - someone is not interested, and those who are not too lazy - do not destroy their mythology.
                  4. mark7
                    mark7 8 February 2014 22: 52
                    +2
                    Quote: Wurger
                    The Red Army at 41 how many prisoners lost?

                    it’s very sad that you will always have this badge in pursuit, and our army has lost a lot of prisoners, but not from a lack of heroism, but from miscalculations in the leadership of the troops, people were brought up on the idea, if it hadn’t won, you won’t write.
          3. Cynic
            Cynic 7 February 2014 17: 04
            +8
            Quote: Wurger
            I am an adult, adequate person who knows ...

            And is there any help?
            1. Wurger
              Wurger 7 February 2014 21: 00
              -5
              Well, it looks like you have already issued a white ticket. No, I'm not in your ranks.
              1. Cynic
                Cynic 8 February 2014 01: 45
                +3
                Quote: Wurger
                No, I'm not in your ranks.

                It even became easier on the soul _ What if!
              2. Cynic
                Cynic 8 February 2014 11: 28
                +4
                Quote: Wurger
                you seem to have already issued a white ticket

                No, not yet, reserve officers later deregistered. If anything, starting from the T-55 to the 80s, I can ignite a couple of three ultra-modern iron. On this, so to speak, junk.
          4. REZMovec
            REZMovec 7 February 2014 18: 29
            +4
            It's time for Old Man to give a tip - the fifth column is not asleep.
            1. Wurger
              Wurger 7 February 2014 21: 00
              -3
              Well, Soviet squealing in all its glory.
          5. SSR
            SSR 8 February 2014 11: 49
            +4
            Quote: Wurger
            Lost the scent for what? I am an adult, adequate person who knows that in 99% they don’t say such things before death. This, excuse me, is more like some kind of propaganda campaign on the poster. And what kind of liberal perestroika tales? I’m not a liberal when it comes to state interests. Ie you are seriously trying to convince that before death, a person thought in the style of soviet agitation?

            I apologize to the members of the forum for the fact that the quote is complete (((
            You didn’t lose the scent; you didn’t have it. The Internet to help the Russians do not give up and the sea signal, we die but do not give up, and the rest of the comrades have already shown you.
      2. siberalt
        siberalt 8 February 2014 02: 16
        +6
        Wurger

        Where does such hatred for Soviet history come from? Or on the Maidan thrown at the grandmother? It is not clear why you are registered with such a nickname on the site. Translated from German - killer, strangler. Yes, and in Belarusian networks you lit up your pro-Nazi statements.
        1. Wurger
          Wurger 8 February 2014 10: 38
          -5
          Why are you all clung to the nickname. In relation to you, it does not carry the meaning that you think. Here is, for example, the T-90 "Vladimir". And there is the FW-190 "Wurger". I simply like this plane and that's it.
          Regarding Soviet history. And why love her? For a revolution arranged by Jews with German money? For the famine? For dispossession? For the GULAGs? For the destruction of the Russian countryside? For stupid leaders, because of the stupidity of which, having the resources much more than the opponents, put so many people? Why love something?
          1. Shogun23
            Shogun23 8 February 2014 16: 55
            +1
            Now you have (or had) a grandfather, let's all tell you that he was a drug addict (because he was once injected with morphine in the hospital), an alcoholic (because he had a glass on holidays), or that he was a cruel and cynical killer (because he was in the war). And now you are a descendant of this grandfather, and now you are being shown that your grandfather was a drug addict and an alcoholic murderer! You will answer that "Yes, my grandfather was a real shit and everything they say about him is true!"? Or will you still defend the honor and good name of your family?
            1. Cynic
              Cynic 8 February 2014 17: 20
              +2
              Quote: Shogun23
              Here you have

              Sorry, but poorly formulated example.
              A very wide field of interpretation and by no means in your favor, believe me the cynic.
              And if the
              Quote: Shogun23
              Here you have (or had) a grandfather war hero , let's any shushera they will only tell you that he was ...

              That's where it is, you don’t even have to give a chance.
              hi
              1. Shogun23
                Shogun23 8 February 2014 18: 07
                +2
                Well, I agree, it will be better
          2. mark7
            mark7 8 February 2014 23: 11
            +1
            Quote: Wurger
            Why love something?

            "Is it right, or not right, but this is my fatherland" have you heard such an expression? You are not a patriot, in general, rather a person without a homeland, I consider communication meaningless
          3. badger1974
            badger1974 9 February 2014 22: 21
            +1
            and before the revolution there was something to be proud of? A stolypisky carriage is just the resettlement of the peasantry in Siberia under a stolypin — how many survived them, eh? maybe in the Russian-Japanese empire in the farits was putting people whom are still uncounted? or maybe it’s proud of the first world war, which is pr ... in all respects? or backward technical side of equipment? do not flood, cattle and opportunists are the most tenacious element, from which they will be for all time, and it’s a shame to pour shit on your head, this is really a shame, such a country,
      3. siberalt
        siberalt 8 February 2014 02: 16
        +3
        Wurger

        Where does such hatred for Soviet history come from? Or on the Maidan thrown at the grandmother? It is not clear why you are registered with such a nickname on the site. Translated from German - killer, strangler. Yes, and in Belarusian networks you lit up your pro-Nazi statements.
        1. smile
          smile 8 February 2014 02: 31
          +2
          siberalt

          Come on ... :))) they can register with almost any nickname, if within the framework of the rules .... especially in a foreign language ... :))) And the terrible translation of a nickname is already to a psychologist, see , the guy is weak, cowardly and is experiencing complexes on this occasion ... :))) But I want to be big and scary ... :))) Forgive him, sorry :))))
  • parus2nik
    parus2nik 7 February 2014 11: 21
    +1
    but our pilots didn’t count down the shot down American planes ... but in vain ...
    1. badger1974
      badger1974 9 February 2014 22: 43
      0
      just like the Soviet pilots shot down during the Korean incident, and before and after it, this is certainly wrong
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Monster_Fat
    Monster_Fat 7 February 2014 12: 05
    +5
    There are several episodes that can be read about in the memoir literature, where, for various reasons, our troops had to engage in fire resistance with the allies. However, little (from our side) described episodes when special groups of the so-called. "Allies" hunting for "military secrets" of the Nazis, as well as for their treasures, purposefully invaded the territory occupied by our troops, and in some cases these teams destroyed our soldiers and officers, hiding the traces of their presence. Such events are described in foreign literature. In addition, there is another version-legend about why the disgraced Papanin received the second star of the Hero, that is, a legend (or not a legend) about the armed conflict between the Americans and ours in Antarctica in 1946.
    1. smile
      smile 7 February 2014 14: 14
      0
      Monster_Fat
      That's right ... but you shouldn't have mentioned Antarctica. Why are there fairy tales? With this, please contact our unique colleague Volzov. :))) Remember what General Khludov said in the movie "The Run" to the soldier who criticized him intolerantly? :)))
      1. Monster_Fat
        Monster_Fat 7 February 2014 15: 28
        +1
        I wrote that this is a "legend version".
        1. smile
          smile 7 February 2014 16: 56
          0
          Monster_Fat
          Accepted. Yes. you really stipulated the moment. :)) For sanity and caution + :)))
    2. Knizhnik
      Knizhnik 7 February 2014 17: 49
      +2
      Somehow, the recollections of a soldier of the NKVD special team who searched for the leaders of the Reich and secret documents in the dungeons of Berlin caught my eye, several times in the darkness, they clashed to death with some commando, I must admit, the victory was ours, only after the third case they noticed that the form is somehow strange, it turned out that the same special groups of the allies, apparently with the same goals, had to explain and agree through the command.
    3. REZMovec
      REZMovec 7 February 2014 18: 33
      0
      Rather, the Arctic))
    4. Colonel
      Colonel 7 February 2014 20: 38
      +1
      Quote: Monster_Fat
      few (on our part) episodes are described,

      V. Karpov "The Opal of Marshal Zhukov":
      In the Soviet zone of occupation in the village of Volkenstein (Marienburg County) there was a top secret German factory that produced parts for projectile shells and faustpatrons. The owner of this plant, who is also the designer of many parts, escaped and was in the American zone. On June 1, at 16.00 p.m. without a pass from the Soviet command, four officers of the American army arrived at the plant in a lorry. They took away keys from safes with documents from the administration of the plant and began loading parts manufactured at the plant onto the machine.
      The Germans called the commandant of Marienburg, Lt. Col. Katyshev. He immediately arrived at the factory. Realizing the value of what the Allies want to take away, the front-line soldier did not become kind to them, but ordered the Americans to unload the car and immediately leave the territory occupied by the Red Army. Colonel of the US Army Stargervald Joseph Frantsevich [2] arrived in Marienburg on June 21.00 at 70:3 and asked for permission to receive several parts from the factory. The colonel’s request was reported “upstairs” and, of course, Zhukov refused and the colonel left with nothing. But the Americans really needed the drawings and details of the Faustpatrons. On June 4, the same Colonel Stargervald arrived at Lieutenant Colonel Katyshev and began to assure him that he had received permission from Repin, who was Katyshev’s boss, to take what he asked yesterday at the plant. Katyshev was convinced that the guest did not have written permission and sent it, as before, with empty hands. Americans are tired of these polite games. And in the future they began to act, as in a detective film. On June 8, at 12 o’clock in the morning, when many were still asleep, two trucks with 60 American troops drove into the factory yard. They cut the telephone wires connecting the plant to Marienburg and moved into the factory building. But it was not there! Military commandant Katyshev foresaw that the neighbors would not stop at several unsuccessful attempts to capture drawings and details, he strengthened the security of the plant. Assessing the situation, the "allies" did not dare to enter the battle with the guard - there were guys of front-line training. The detective story was not continued with a shootout, corpses, seizure of values ​​or captives, depending on which side would prevail. The Americans chose to retire as "quietly" as they arrived. By the way, in addition to the drawings, the plant's safe had another XNUMX kilograms of gold and platinum, which were used to manufacture parts.
  • -Dmitry-
    -Dmitry- 7 February 2014 12: 11
    +7
    Quote: Wurger
    "Damned imperialists" - the last words? Very unlikely. I suppose it was written down from the words of some political instructor.


    The censorship just worked, it was rather "Fuck ... e the imperialists!"
    1. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets 7 February 2014 12: 25
      +1
      Quote: -Dmitry-
      The censorship just worked, it was rather "Fuck ... e the imperialists!"

      laughing
    2. Wurger
      Wurger 7 February 2014 13: 22
      0
      Wow, that’s more like the truth.
  • Zubr
    Zubr 7 February 2014 12: 34
    +3
    The US Ambassador to the USSR Harriman made an official apology to Joseph Stalin on behalf of Franklin Roosevelt only 37 days after the "Battle of Niš". On December 14, 1944, at a reception in the Kremlin, an American diplomat, assuming a mournful air, casually said: "I would like to express the regret of the President and General Marshall over the accident that occurred in the Balkans. I mean the raid of American aircraft on the Soviet convoy. To avoid similar incidents in the future, the Allied Air Force Commander in the Mediterranean, General Eiker, would like to send a group of liaison officers to the headquarters of the forward Soviet troops in the Balkans to coordinate the actions of the Soviet troops and the Allied air forces. "

    Stalin rejected this proposal, answering that "I am not sure whether there is a need to send a group, since now a line of demarcation has been established for the Allied aviation, and he needs to talk with the military." It is quite possible that the Supreme Commander-in-Chief could have seen behind these actions of the Americans and a direct intent - by inflicting such a brutal blow on the Russians to force them to introduce allied "spies" into their headquarters in order to more fully control and recognize their intentions in Europe, the struggle for spheres of influence in which was already in full swing.
  • K.Shimada
    K.Shimada 7 February 2014 12: 35
    +1
    I wonder if there are recorded cases of the destruction of American officers and generals as a result of "tragic misunderstandings"?
  • tverskoi77
    tverskoi77 7 February 2014 13: 13
    +2
    Reading such articles, the situation with the policies of the USSR before the start of the war and the organization of defense is becoming increasingly clear to me. If in the 41st fascists they immediately kicked w @ opu, then most likely we would have to fight not only with fascist Germany, but with all of imperialist Europe.
    1. Wurger
      Wurger 7 February 2014 13: 32
      -4
      Well, hardly. In the 41st, the Red Army did not know how to fight. The Finnish war is proof of this.
    2. parus2nik
      parus2nik 7 February 2014 13: 57
      +4
      but they fought with all of imperial Europe ... the Belgian workers went on strike on 22.06.1941 .. didn’t want to work at peacetime rates, demanded higher wages .. the Czech workers honestly forged weapons to the Reich, the French did the same honestly. .Through Spain, Vichy France sent oil for the Reich from America .. Switzerland honestly sent German money to other banks, Sweden brought ore to Germany ..
    3. Shogun23
      Shogun23 8 February 2014 17: 06
      +1
      Well, in the 30s, no one really hid the fact that Germany was going to be used to fight the USSR, and when Germany and the USSR would weaken each other in the war (it was assumed that the war would look like a positional deadlock of the First World War, then the World would I saw the saviors in the face of the Franco-British, who "cleared Europe from the red and brown plague"! But it did not grow together a little, and in many respects "thanks to" Poland, which quickly passed from the Germans to the allies, for which both Poland and her paid for " guarantors of independence "
  • Kostya pedestrian
    Kostya pedestrian 7 February 2014 13: 32
    -9
    Watch "The Secret of My Success" and read awards for the best fantasy stories of how the Irish brutes, tired of life, went to prison, where they found abandoned fascists they decided to save. Then insert into this equation the Lagger polynomial with crunchy with love for suction, and it will immediately become clear who muddies the water in the swamp. By the way, Gaelic magic is by no means a friend of Russians, except perhaps Freud, which is similar to the English friend.

    In general, "Swap places" - do you need it?

    PieS: by the way, US Airforce and Britain pulled about 70% of the Nazis off the eastern front and stopped the invasion of Japan in the war. Well, the owners of Volkswagen and Toyota - this can not be proved. Like the fact that the Greeks-Greeks came up with Afghanistan, just look at the lunar park in Sydney and the logo of the university in Kabul where Amin studied - you can immediately see who ate the lives of our and Afghan guys - graying Orthodox Greeks. Although I’m more interested in finding out which astaroth (Opel Astra) came up with to steal the winning star from Jupiter and its envoys like Zhukov through the Vietnam War and the HRV, the flag smoothly passing into the Australian-Aboriginal flag, and then to the Indians and Bangladesh came up with the Akbar.

    Fig!
    1. smile
      smile 7 February 2014 17: 12
      +8
      Kostya pedestrian
      Vah !!!! Here you are cutting the truth of the uterus :))) Ax! :))) Death! :)))
      Well, I won’t comment on 70% of the Luftwaffe drawn by the allies - I’m fucking crazy :))) The salvation of us, the orphans, by the Americans from the Japanese is also obvious nonsense ... :))) Naturally, you won’t prove how such lies can be proved - there’s nothing to prove it, simply because it’s a lie. :)))
      But the rest :)))
      "Afghan was invented by Christian Greeks" .... "graying Orthodox Greeks ate the lives of our guys" .... " into the Australian-Aboriginal flag, and then to the Indians and Bangladesh you come up with an Akbarovist ".....
      Jooooooo .... :))) In your fool, the orderlies took a drink and you and your colleagues got to the forgotten laptop? :))) Do you get information from Jupiter through closed channels? :)))
      In no case do not cut your hair, connection with the Cosmos will disappear ... :)))

      I confess, at first I thought it was a joke, and then I remembered that you, like the Volkhovs, write seriously ... :))) Thank you, you incredibly amused me ... :))))
  • Max_Damage
    Max_Damage 7 February 2014 13: 45
    +2
    I heard about that. Yak 3 - such a beautiful plane! The most beautiful.

    Today I watched the telly, the mood was good. And then on TV they reminded that the Germans tested phosphorus on Soviet prisoners of war - people burned alive. The Germans are still not people. They need to remember this at the first opportunity. They got off too easily after the war, pretending to be some kind of sheep.
  • FunkschNNX
    FunkschNNX 7 February 2014 14: 29
    +5
    We had a neighbor, Uncle Vasya, he flew a fighter in the war, so he didn’t have half a brush on his hand, just the allies did their best. Somewhere over Western Europe, he alone met in the air with a couple of Americans, waved each other's wings and scattered, as he thought. In fact, these 3,14 darasy gained height, went into his tail and dived at him. The line just through the lantern passed and wounded him. Naturally, with such a wound (count without a hand) he could no longer answer. I didn’t remember how I sat down (I was small when he already died and I don’t remember his story badly), maybe I managed to land the plane, maybe I jumped out.
  • polkovnik manuch
    polkovnik manuch 7 February 2014 15: 38
    0
    "You can't throw out words from a song" - there were many such cases, just to describe them the same "censors from the Central Committee" gave.
  • Alexey M
    Alexey M 7 February 2014 16: 03
    0
    It was necessary to go up to Lamans in 45! And there would be world peace!
    1. Aaron Zawi
      Aaron Zawi 7 February 2014 17: 41
      -3
      Quote: Alexey M
      It was necessary to go up to Lamans in 45! And there would be world peace!

      There was no one to go with. Do you know the number of infantry battalions in the 1 Belorussian as of May 45? I’m not even talking about the physical, moral and economic exhaustion of the country. So no matter what adventures anyone prepared in the quiet, all this was at the level of projections.
      1. ODESSA
        ODESSA 7 February 2014 21: 21
        +6
        Quote: Aron Zaavi
        There was no one to go with.

        Yah?!! Or maybe they would send a stemi who, in a week, defeated the millionth Kwantung army? Do not bring nonsense - my Jewish friend.
        1. smile
          smile 8 February 2014 02: 46
          +2
          ODESSA
          Great answer! Greetings to a new colleague!
          Only, maybe you should not focus on religion? :))) What for? Aron is a normal man ..... no worse and no worse than us ... nothing .... sometimes, as in this case., You should not agree with him. :)))) But often it says. :)))
          But, of course, in this case, continental Europe, if our former allies attacked us, of course, we would have been very quickly cleared of the troops of the aggressors ... And if we had not finished off Japan ... then the prospects for the Anglo-Saxons would have loomed not very rosy ... or rather, quite rosy :))), I hope everyone remembers who wears such flags ... :)))) like that and ... positioned :))))

          And the fact that it would cost us lives would be so .... but perhaps it would be worth it.
          1. ODESSA
            ODESSA 8 February 2014 10: 09
            +3
            Quote: smile
            Greetings to a new colleague!

            I also welcome you! About a Jewish friend; maybe I got excited, but against the background of current events (statements of the "rain" channel in Leningrad, CNN on the monument) his post looks to say the least - ridiculous!
    2. Shogun23
      Shogun23 8 February 2014 17: 13
      +2
      When I read this, I remembered Patton and his desire in the event of a war with the USSR to get from Germany to Stalingrad with his EMNIP corps in a couple of weeks.
  • konvalval
    konvalval 7 February 2014 16: 07
    +4
    Had the honor of serving under the command of Marshal Koldunov. Not only did he then lay it on them. It's a pity.
  • Knizhnik
    Knizhnik 7 February 2014 17: 50
    +3
    Somehow, the recollections of an Azerbaijani fighter of the NKVD special team who searched for the leaders of the Reich and secret documents in the dungeons of Berlin caught my eye, several times in the darkness, they clashed dead to some commando, we must admit, the victory was ours, only after the third case they paid attention that the form is somehow strange, it turned out that the same special groups of the allies, apparently with the same goals, had to explain and agree through the command.
  • Black
    Black 7 February 2014 19: 15
    +1
    Quote: Zubr
    It is quite possible that the Supreme Commander-in-Chief could see behind these actions of the Americans and a direct intent - by inflicting such a brutal blow on the Russians to force them to introduce the allied "spies" into their headquarters in order to more fully control and recognize their intentions in Europe


    But this, it seems to me, explains everything !!!! A kind of two-step.
    Our Western lovers have such stories in mini-books, yes, in their pockets for obligatory wearing, and test expressive reading on Fridays.
    Maybe then "partners" will finally find their true designation.
  • alal
    alal 7 February 2014 19: 25
    -1
    Quote: nik.lankaster
    I do not believe in a random attack by the Americans.


    And you are doing the right thing. After the battle, a map was discovered in one of the downed Lightnings, in which this airfield in Yugoslavia was designated as the target of the attack. In such things it is impossible to be mistaken.


    Have you heard about the "blue on blue" attacks?
    it is clear that the Americans and British OWN troops in Iraq and Afghanistan bombed because of bloodthirstiness, no?
    1. smile
      smile 7 February 2014 20: 07
      +5
      alal
      Niche was in our area of ​​responsibility. Long before the incident. The mission was to strike at a specific target indicated on the maps. Maps were extracted from the tablets of the deceased pilots of the first group of Lightnings. The second group was sent after the first one got in the teeth - just a few dozen pilots simply could not make out the identification marks. The third group was recalled when our fighters disheveled the second group and the entire regiment was ready to meet and went bankrupt on the whole Front. What a misunderstanding? How can you compare with mistakes in Iraq when aircraft could be retargeted already in the air and they acted in time trouble?

      Situations are fundamentally different - one thing is losing orientation and mistakes, and another thing is a planned raid on a static target, blocking an airfield in an area in which American aviation was forbidden to avoid friendly fire. But the goal was included in the flight mission and indicated on the maps. Well, what could be unclear here?
      1. aleshka
        aleshka 7 February 2014 21: 41
        +2
        This is normal for them! Why are they still afraid of us ???? All their military provocations ended in failure! Everywhere and always!
      2. badger1974
        badger1974 9 February 2014 23: 02
        +1
        this incident can be attributed to the post-war "misunderstanding" on Sukhaya Rechka (Far East) in 1950, they also lost the landmark, although in all the twists and turns this is a planned raid-provocation
  • alal
    alal 7 February 2014 19: 31
    -3
    Quote: Shogun23
    This is one of the most common myths.
    Somehow, without diminishing the merits of our ace, it should be noted that human passions, including ambitions, were not alien to him.


    Local connoisseurs do not believe :) Minuses were thrown. Bugaga
    1. aleshka
      aleshka 7 February 2014 21: 43
      +2
      you throw cons, do not respect yourself! dissolve amoeba!
  • kostik1301
    kostik1301 7 February 2014 20: 59
    +1
    p.i.nd.do.s.you can only do so .....................
  • Snoop
    Snoop 7 February 2014 21: 06
    +2
    Error))) By the way, we must look, before this incident, the Yankees also bombed the Yugoslav town, which was in our area of ​​responsibility. Found unexploded bombs with inscriptions in Cyrillic - Happy Easter! Hardly a mistake))))
    1. Alex 241
      Alex 241 7 February 2014 21: 09
      +1
      This has already been discussed at VO http://topwar.ru/38816-krovavaya-pasha-bombardirovki-belgrada-v-aprele-1944-goda
      .html
  • tatkali
    tatkali 8 February 2014 08: 47
    +1
    By the way, if you go with the thought of the author of the article, then absolutely any armed conflict is a real war. For example, any incident with friendly fire (as in this case) can be considered a war between countries. But there are also cases of the same civil war, when soldiers of one country, without knowing it, shoot at each other. How to explain this, or is the author just a complete paranoid and a nerd?
  • dmitry21
    dmitry21 8 February 2014 20: 49
    +3
    Quote: Wurger
    What can you argue with? A person who thinks that people are fighting and dying for ideology, it seems, even at 50, did not get out of his 16-year-old pants. How many prisoners did the Red Army of 41 lose? It was the new growth of "ideological" who gave up. I had to call on older people who, to put it mildly, did not like advice, but were real Russian people. They fought for the Motherland, for each other, for their wives, children and parents, and not for Sralin and Soviet power. They won, not thanks to, but in spite of.
    About the photo with the captions. We will not discuss everything. Let's take one of the icons of heroism. Brest Fortress. It would seem that there is nothing to think about. An example of fantastic heroism. But here we remember that when did the Soviet authorities appoint them "heroes"? In the 60s, if I'm not mistaken. There were inscriptions, but inscriptions for communism, Sralina and Soviet power appeared much later, when they were writing that very "Soviet" history.
    Another example. Stalingrad if I'm not mistaken. The explosion covered the exit to the basement. In the basement there are 2 machine gunners and a political instructor, who is already wounded and incapable of combat. Lies against the wall. Two machine gunners hold the street for several days, putting up to 200-ton Germans. As a result, he was awarded the order, and the political instructor was awarded the title of Hero of the Union. This is how the "Soviet" history was written. Well, let's start remembering Rzhev or the defense of Leningrad - there is generally darkness.

    Dear, do not talk nonsense. everyone can delve into the shit, but feel the horror of the impending and inevitable death and still hold on to the handle, steering wheel, levers - this is the Hero! and if the political instructor was ALREADY injured and supported his guys, then they would give their orders to him! not everything was as bad as you would like to think.
  • ONlopas
    ONlopas 13 February 2014 21: 00
    0
    Why is this material on the opening day of the Olympics?
  • murriou
    murriou 7 October 2016 08: 31
    0
    Quote: Alex-86
    The proletarian envy takes for the fact that they turned out to be stronger than the USSR?

    Well, just in all the episodes of "random" clashes, in which the Americans probed the Red Army for strength, it turned out just the opposite: ours beat them in the tail and mane.

    In general, the only war in which the Americans showed themselves to be worthy fighters against an equal in strength enemy is their own civil war of the North and South laughing

    In all other cases, they either used overwhelming numerical and technical superiority, or quickly merged after the first serious losses.