15 Cossack Cavalry SS Corps

The Great Patriotic War was an ordeal for the Soviet people. She put many in front of a choice.

Wehrmacht's Voluntary Assistants (Hiwi)

Forming military units from foreign volunteers, Hitler always protested against the creation of Russian units in the structure of the Wehrmacht. He did not trust Russians. (Looking ahead, we can say that he was right: in 1945, the 1 division of KNOR (Vlasovites) withdrew from positions and went west, exposing the front.) But many Wehrmacht generals didn’t share the position of the Fuhrer. The German army, moving through the territory of the USSR, suffered huge losses. Against the backdrop of 1941, the Western campaigns seemed like a cakewalk. Lost German divisions. Their qualitative composition has changed. Landsknechts who knew the hop of victory, the sweetness of triumph, were placed in the Soviet land. Replaced by the dead came replenishment, which did not have a sparkle in his eyes.

The field generals, in contrast to the “parquet sharkuns,” did not disdain the Russians. Many of them, by hook or by crook, contributed to the formation of “native units” in their units. Collaborators preferred to keep away from the front line, entrusting them with the protection of objects, communications and “dirty work” - fighting guerrillas and carrying out punitive actions against the civilian population. They were called "hiwi" (German Hilfswilliger, willing to help). Were in the Wehrmacht and the units formed from the Cossacks.

Causes of appearance

The first such Cossack units appeared already in 1941 year. There were several reasons for this. Huge Russian open spaces, lack of roads, loss of vehicles, problems with the supply of fuel and lubricants simply pushed the Germans to the massive use of horses. In the German chronicle you rarely see a German soldier on a horse or a horse-drawn cannon: for propaganda purposes, the operators were instructed to remove the motorized units. In fact, the Hitlerites massively used horses in both the 1941 year and the 1945.

Cavalry units were simply indispensable in the fight against partisans. In the woods, in the swamps, they outnumbered vehicles and armored personnel carriers, and moreover, they did not need gasoline. Therefore, the appearance of the Khivi detachments of the Cossacks who know how to handle horses is, if not welcomed, then at least it has not encountered any obstacles.

In addition, Hitler did not attribute the Cossacks to the Russians, considered them to be a separate people, descendants ready, so the formation of the Cossack units did not meet with any sharp opposition from the NSDAP functionaries.
And there were a lot of disgruntled Bolsheviks among the Cossacks, the policy of disclosing conducted by the Soviet authorities made itself felt.

One of the first in the Wehrmacht was a Cossack unit under the command of Ivan Kononov.

Division Ivan Kononov

22 August 1941, the commander of the 436 rifle regiment, Ivan Kononov, built the personnel, announced his decision to go to the enemy, and invited everyone to join him. So it was or not, not known. Can you trust the stories of Kononov himself? But there is a fact: 22 August Kononov, his staff officers and several dozen Red Army soldiers of the regiment were captured. Kononov declared himself a Cossack, an opponent of the Bolsheviks, and offered his services to the Germans in the formation of a military unit of the Cossacks who were ready to fight the communist regime. Responsible for the security of the rear of the Army Group Center, General von Schenkendorf was a supporter of the creation of anti-Soviet armed formations and met Kononov's initiative favorably.

Originally a squadron was formed, the basis of which consisted of the soldiers of the 436 regiment. Kononov with the aim of recruiting made a voyage to the nearby camps for prisoners of war. The squadron, which received reinforcement, was transformed into a battalion, and later - into a division. How captive the Red Army men, who declared themselves Cossacks, were such is already a question. German officers in such subtleties tried not to delve into. He agreed to fight for the thousand-year Reich - and all right. Kononov himself admitted that in addition to the Cossacks, who made up 60% of the personnel, under his command were representatives of all nationalities, including the Greeks and French.

Part of Kononov was used to protect communications, destroy the surrounded parts of the Red Army and fight against partisans. General von Shenkendorf was pleased with the “Kononists”, in his diary he noted their high combat readiness and ruthlessness towards the partisans and the local population.

Biographical information on I. Kononov

Kononov Ivan Nikitich. Born in 1906 year, according to his record as a commander of the Red Army, in a proletarian family. In 1922, he entered the Red Army, where he began to grow in rank and position. In 1922, he graduated from the United Military School. VCIK. In 1930, a regiment in which Kononov served as a platoon commander took part in suppressing a peasant uprising. (I wonder how Kononov himself later talked about his participation in that punitive action? Maybe, "Executed orders with a sore heart?" Or: "Gave orders, shot and cried?") A participant in the Finnish campaign. Even then, according to him, he cherished the idea to run across and join the fight against the Bolsheviks, but circumstances did not work out. I had to fight, showing courage and bravery: from the Finnish com. Kononov returned with the Order of the Red Star on his chest. In short, he served the Soviet government faithfully.

In August, 1941, Kononov, "remembered" that he was the son of a Cossack captain, hanged by the Bolsheviks, that three of his brothers had died in the struggle against Soviet power, and yesterday's member of the CPSU (B) became a staunch anti-communist. In the Wehrmacht, Kononov was promoted to colonel, he received general's shoulder straps from Vlasov. In the chaos of 1945 retreat, he “lost” his subordinates. The only general of the ROA, to avoid a meeting with Soviet justice. After the war, he tried to engage in political activities, but neither the surviving Vlasovites, nor the few surviving Cossacks were willing to accept Kononov into their ranks. Since the USSR has repeatedly demanded his extradition, Kononov hid in Australia. The KGB was looking for him for a long time, and apparently found him: in 1967, Konon died in a car accident.

1-I Cossack cavalry division of the Wehrmacht

In the 1943 year, yielding to the pressure of the generals, Hitler finally agreed to form a Cossack cavalry division. The formation took place in Poland, in the town of Mlawa. Cossack regiments and police battalions, volunteers from the Cossack areas occupied by the Nazis, began to flock there. All arrived units were disbanded and reduced to new ones, as belonging to the Cossack army. The commanders of the regiments, the chiefs of staff were the Germans. All senior command positions were also occupied by the Germans (222 officer, 3 827 non-commissioned officer).

The exception was the division of Kononov. Under the threat of rebellion, the division retained its composition and was transformed into a regiment. Kononov was appointed commander, all the officers remained in their posts.
The division was the most "Russified" part of the collaborationist units. The junior officers consisted of Russians (191 officer), the teams were given in Russian. Major General von Pannwitz was appointed commander of the 1 Cossack Cavalry Division.

Pannwitz Old Man

Language does not turn to call Helmut von Pannwitz "Cossack". German, moreover - 100% Prussian, coming from a family of professional soldiers. In World War I fought for the Kaiser on the Western Front. Member of the Polish campaign 1939 year. Participated in the storming of Brest, for which he received the Knight's Cross. He was a supporter of attracting the Cossacks to the Reich service. Having become a Cossack general, defiantly wore a Cossack uniform: a hat and Cherkessk with gaschroes, adopted the son of the regiment Boris Nabokov. In January, 1945 was elected the All-Russian Circle Ataman. It was issued by the British in the year 1945 Soviet authorities. We judge together with generals Shkuro, Krasnov and others. Among others he was sentenced to be hanged.

Division with "specific contingent"

The formed division consisted of 2 brigades (6 regiments), an artillery detachment, a communications battalion and support services. The division counted 18 555 people. At the end of the formation, the question arose: “And what to do with it further?” Contrary to the wishes of the rank and file that were repeatedly expressed to the front as soon as possible, the Nazis did not seek this. Even in the exemplary division of Kononov, the Cossacks went over to the Soviet side. They did not pass by singles, but in groups, having previously interrupted the Germans and their officers. In August, the Gil-Rodionov Brigade (1943 thousand) passed to the partisans in full 2. If the Cossack division rises, there will be much more problems. Already in the first days of formation, the Germans recognized the violent temper of the Cossacks.

In the 3 Kuban regiment, one of the cavalry officers sent from the Wehrmacht, making a review of "his" hundreds, called the Cossack out of action. At first he sternly scolded him, and then hit him in the face. Hit in German, with a gloved hand. The offended Cossack took out a sword - and in the division one German officer became smaller. The rushed German authorities built a hundred: “Russish Schwein! Who did it, step forward! ”The whole hundred stepped up. The Germans scratched their heads only. The officer was "written off" to the partisans.
And here they are - on the Eastern Front ?! In September 1943, the division was sent to Yugoslavia to fight with Tito's partisan army.

In Yugoslavia

The German command very quickly became convinced that the cavalry Cossack units in the fight against the partisans were much more effective than their motorized police battalions and Ustashi troops. The guerrilla movement in the areas of responsibility of the division von Pannwitz quickly faded out and disappeared. This was achieved by a combination of well-conducted anti-partisan operations and cruelty against the partisans and the local population. Serbs Cossacks hated and feared.

In August 1944, Himmler achieved the transfer of all foreign military formations to the SS. It was decided to deploy a very effective Cossack division into the corps. Thus arose the 15 Cossack Cavalry Corps of the SS. Completed the case on the basis of an already existing division and Cossack units from other fronts. Two battalions from Krakow, a police battalion from Warsaw, a regiment from the Western Front arrived. A reserve of Cossack troops was created, recruiting volunteers into the corps among prisoners of war and eastern workers (at the head of the structure - General Shkuro). General Krasnov took an active part in the formation of the corps. All this time, the division continued to conduct combat operations and in December 1944 of the year entered into direct contact with the units of the Red Army. Contrary to fears, the Cossacks did not run away, they fought hard, fiercely.

By order of 25.02.1945, the division was officially transformed into the XV Cossack Cavalry Corps of the SS. It had little effect on the division itself, practically nothing. The form remained the same, the skull with bones did not appear on the fur hats, the Cossacks continued to wear their old buttonholes, the soldiers' books did not even change. But the corps was organizationally part of the "black order" troop structure, SS liaison officers appeared in units.

The Cossacks were not long fighters of Himmler. April 20 Corps was handed over to General Vlasov. In addition to previous sins, "traitors" and "SS" received "appendage" - "Vlasovites."

The fate of the corps after 9 May

In early May, the march chieftain Pannwitz led his unit to Austria. With the battle through the mountains, the corps went to Carinthia (southern Austria), where 11-12 May folded weapon before the British. Pannwitz did not know, but this breakthrough did not solve anything. At the Yalta conference, Great Britain and the United States signed an agreement with the USSR, under which they pledged to extradite Soviet citizens who were in their zone of occupation. In June 1945, the Cossacks of the 15 Corps were handed over to the Soviet representatives.

Soviet court punished the Cossacks according to the severity of their sins. They did not shoot them, but the deadlines gave them "non-child". Simultaneously with the USSR, Yugoslavia was urgently demanding the Cossacks. The corps soldiers were accused of numerous crimes against the civilian population. If Cossacks were extradited to the Tito government, their fate would have been much sadder.

The Legend of Pannwitz

Helmut von Pannwitz was never a Soviet citizen and therefore was not subject to extradition to the Soviet authorities. When representatives of the USSR arrived at the English prisoner of war camp, Pannwitz went to the camp commandant and demanded that he be included among the repatriated. “I sent the Cossacks to death - and they went. They chose me chieftain. Now we have a common fate. ” Perhaps this is only a legend, and Pannwitz was simply taken along with others. But there is a beautiful story about the "Father Pannwitz" Cossack circles.

Necessary conclusion

Least of all, I would like the 15 Corps fighters to be perceived as heroes. No, they are not heroes. And do not judge him about the Cossacks as a whole. In that difficult time, the Cossacks made a completely different choice. While in Yugoslavia fought one Cossack Division, on the fronts of World War II fought more than seventy Cossack formations, and the command was not tormented by the questions “Are these units reliable?”, “Is it dangerous to send them to the front?” Hundreds of thousands of Cossacks selflessly defended not the regime, but the Homeland. Modes come and go, but the motherland remains.
Here they are - really heroes.

Appendix:
Cossack military units - participants of the Great Patriotic War 1941 -1945:
1 Guards Stavropol Cavalry Division;
3-I Guards Cavalry Division;
4-I Guards Cavalry Division;
6-I Guards Cavalry Division;
9-I Guards Kuban Cossack Cavalry Division;
10-I Guards Kuban Cossack Cavalry Division;
11-I Guards Don Cossack Cavalry Division;
12-I Guards Don Cossack Cavalry Division;
8-I Cossack Cavalry Division;
9 Far Eastern Cavalry Division;
30 Cavalry Division;
63 Cavalry Division;
4 Guards Kuban Cossack Cavalry Corps;
5 Guards Don Cossack Cavalry Cossack Corps;
1 Guards Cavalry Regiment;
5 Guards Cavalry Regiment;
6 Guards Cavalry Regiment;
9 Guards Cavalry Regiment;
10 Guards Cavalry Regiment;
12 Guards Cavalry Regiment;
11 Guards Cavalry Regiment;
15 Guards Cavalry Regiment;
16 Guards Cossack Cavalry Regiment;
23 Guards Cavalry Regiment.
25 Guards Cavalry Regiment;
28 Guards Cavalry Regiment;
29 Guards Cossack Cavalry Regiment;
30 Guards Kuban Cossack Cavalry Regiment;
31 Guards Cossack Cavalry Regiment;
32 Guards Kuban Cossack Cavalry Regiment;
33 Guards Cossack Cavalry Regiment;
34 Guards Kuban Cossack Cavalry Regiment;
36 Guards Kuban Cossack Cavalry Regiment;
37 Guards Don Cossack Cavalry Regiment;
39 Guards Don Cossack Cavalry Regiment;
40 Guards Kuban Cossack Cavalry Regiment;
41 Guards Don Cossack Cavalry Regiment;
42 Guards Kuban Cossack Cavalry Regiment;
43 Guards Don Cossack Cavalry Regiment;
45 Guards Don Cossack Cavalry Regiment;
47 Guards Don Cossack Cavalry Regiment;
49 Cavalry Regiment;
115-th Trans-Baikal Cavalry Regiment;
127 Cavalry Regiment;
133 Cavalry Regiment;
138 Cavalry Regiment;
163 Cavalry Regiment;
220 Cavalry Regiment;
223 Cavalry Regiment.

And that is not all! Any questions?

Sources:
http://ru.wikipedia.org
http://www.division.cc
http://www.plam.ru
http://www.istorya.ru
http://www.yaplakal.com
http://battleminers.5bb.ru
http://ковровское-казачество.рф
http://kazakwow.ru

Comments

[kaktus]

Glory to the heroes! Traitors - what they deserve!

[bya965]

One must understand that there are traitors and there is a civil war. Kononov is a typical traitor.
Cossacks von Pannwitz, many of whom have never lived in the USSR, are a civil war.
Cossack cemetery in Lienz.

Painting by S. G. Korolkov “Extradition of Cossacks in Lienz”. Museum of the Kuban Cossack Army, New Jersey, USA.

[invisibility]

What kind of civil war?
They did not know that the Nazis did not come to destroy the Bolsheviks, but the Eastern barbarians! It’s just traitors a million times worse than the Nazis themselves!

[avt]

Quote: invisible

They did not know that the Nazis did not come to destroy the Bolsheviks, but the Eastern barbarians!

Khodui, they are lackeys. No matter how the author admires them - “Besides, Hitler did not attribute the Cossacks to the Russians, he considered them a separate people, descendants of the Goths, so the formation of the Cossack units did not meet with sharp opposition from the NSDAP functionaries. "----------- It was Hitler who kept them for subhumans, even when they were -----" In August 1944, Himmler achieved the transfer of all foreign military formations to the SS "due to the losses of the Aryans ", then in spite of the SS oath taken already in 1943, they were not held there, they were in the composition of foreign units, in contrast to the same Balts, Hungarians, Croats. So the jokes about the Aryan Cossacks are supposedly --- - ,, the corps was organizationally part of the structure of the "black order" troops, SS liaison officers appeared in the units, there is nothing to write - all this bastard was assigned to the SS tank corps from here and the liaison officers, do not believe me - read Müller Hildebrant, he has a German Wehrmacht units and SS troops are scrupulously painted. Punishers and scum, fit only to destroy civilians and partisans, about which the author writes ------ ,, The German command very quickly became convinced that the cavalry Cossack units in the fight against the partisans where more efficient than their motorized police Eisk battalions and Ustasha detachments. The partisan movement in the areas of responsibility of the division of von Pannwitz quickly faded and came to naught. This was achieved through a combination of competently conducted anti-partisan operations and cruelty against partisans and the local population. The Serbs hated and feared the Cossacks. "Because the same executioners as the police battalions of Bandera, and even Wrangel's accomplices from the White emigrants, were in general, on a voluntary basis, the Germans were attracted to the occupied Crimea.

[KUBANA777]

Quote: avt

,, Moreover, Hitler did not classify the Cossacks as Russian, considered them to be a separate people,

not only Hitler considered them a separate people, but also Ivan the Terrible introducing "Cossack hordes" into the regular troops, and the "God-chosen" government of revolutionary Russia, which tried to destroy the Cossacks as a people and did everything in 1918 and 1932 (executions, hunger, deportation to Siberia ) so that the Cossacks fiercely hate this power. (And by the way, the rehabilitation was of the Cossacks as small peoples.) I do not judge the Cossacks described in the article, you do not know what, for example, the new government did in the Kuban, and maybe in my youth, I would condemn them out of ignorance, but now having a family, I already doubt that I would not take the pitchfork (figurative expression) and would not protect them. In the neighboring village, the Bolsheviks shot the villagers, near the local church, their children were gathered in a kind of orphanage, they were fed so that they died during the winter, the troupes were simply thrown into an open pit, the winters were frosty then, in the spring they buried. this is how this and this is one village, but this happened in every settlement of the Kuban. about 45000 inhabitants were taken to Siberia, in their place in 1933 they sent residents of other regions of Russia, the same dispossessed (thank God for the living) and my ancestors came here from the Voronezh region, with a couple of suitcases (grandfather with a daughter and a pregnant wife). And still they can not count how many died of hunger, but believe this, hundreds of thousands of residents of the Kuban (for example, the Staroshcherbinovskaya station out of 22000, 5000 remained in a year, this is on the bottom of the site on Wikipedia, and how many villages did not write this, (by the way grandfather was dispossessed for having two horses and a cow, and did not fulfill the standard for the delivery of milk). So do not judge and you will not be judged, most of these Cossacks just took revenge. As now the Ukrainians-Westerners take revenge on the Ukrainians from the eastern regions, and you think if they were given weapons and the opportunity, a sea of ​​blood would not have been shed, it must have been shed, so this is in the 21st century, and then ................

[nerd.su]

Quote: KUBANA777

So do not judge and you will not be judged, most of these Cossacks simply took revenge

We do not judge them. They were condemned by the Soviet government and, I believe, deservedly. What do you think, only the Cossacks dispossessed? Only they died of hunger? Just shot them? A man who emigrated from his country, instead of fighting to the end for his beliefs, privileges, land, and then trying to return with an invading enemy, like a jackal behind a tiger, is an undefeated enemy. And there is no excuse for him.
Moreover, we still need to figure out where so many not old "emigrants" came from.

Quote: KUBANA777

As now Ukrainians - Westerners take revenge on Ukrainians from the eastern regions

Why are Westerners taking revenge on people from eastern Ukraine?

[KUBANA777]

Quote: bot.su

Why are Westerners taking revenge on people from eastern Ukraine?

a long history of the emergence of the modern territory of Ukraine, eastern, Russian, regions are joined by decrees of the Soviet government, and people there call themselves Ukrainians by the name of the country, and not by nationality, Westerners were taken from Poland before the war, etc. , and the intransigence of the Poles with the Russians is well known and extends into the depths of centuries. So what would be their will (by the way, the eastern regions are peace-loving (Great Russians))

[nerd.su]

Quote: KUBANA777

the intransigence of the Poles with the Russians is well known

I understand when we, Russians, consider the east of Ukraine and Crimea to be native Russian territories. But the Poles (zapadentsev) then what kind of interest to consider them Russian and takes revenge? Because Russia can not take revenge? It seems to me that this is not a matter of revenge, at least for now. What an incomprehensible ... story! And to figure it out, you first need to give the bully a bully and determine at least 15 days. But let it be understood in Ukraine.

[KUBANA777]

Quote: bot.su

But the Poles (zapadentsev) then what kind of interest to consider them Russian and takes revenge?

don’t cling to words, I think it’s in the blood, there is an interesting article that says
------- Are Western Ukrainians different from Eastern Ukrainians?

- A dissertation was recently defended on this topic in our laboratory. There are differences, of course. If there is a geographical distance, then differences in the gene pool will certainly appear. With respect to Eastern Ukrainians, genetics only confirmed what anthropologists already knew: their gene pool is similar to southern Russians and Cossacks (especially on the maternal side), and similar to other Ukrainians (especially on the paternal side). But it is still unclear with Western Ukrainians: according to different genes, they turn out to be similar either to Central Ukrainians, then to Eastern Russians, or even to individual peoples of Europe, and even not neighboring ones. It seems that in Western Ukraine, at the crossroads, several different gene pools of ancient tribes converged. Therefore, we must continue the study. So far, we have studied only two regions there, but if the Ukrainian authorities are interested and provide support, we could study this mysterious region in more detail.
http://leninskoe-zp.io.ua/s110116

[nerd.su]

Again the gene pool. For me these American research aimed at cut the doughare not an argument. They studied two areas there. Let the Indians study better. It turns out that the Indians were Türks; we’ll set the US score as half a Turkic power.
And in Ukraine, the Slavs will somehow figure it out, without the Americans.

[KUBANA777]

Quote: bot.su

I understand when we, Russians, consider the east of Ukraine and Crimea to be native Russian territories

as we believe, they were the Russian territories of Russia, at least before the revolution

[nerd.su]

Quote: KUBANA777

as we believe, they were the Russian territories of Russia, at least before the revolution

Could you put the punctuation marks in this phrase? And then it feels like Russian is not your native language. If you type the same phrase without changing the words, but placing punctuation marks according to the rules of the Russian language, I will explain to you why I think so. And this is not nitpicking, I myself, sometimes, miss the signs or make mistakes. I really think that you are not native to Russian and it is not easy for you to have a discussion. Maybe I'm wrong.

[KUBANA777]

Quote: bot.su

I really think that you are not native to Russian and it is not easy for you to have a discussion. Maybe I'm wrong.

A nerd is a nerd, I place punctuation marks for the gifted, ......... As we consider the comma (emphasize the idea), they were Russian territories of Russia, the comma (and again distinguish with a different tone), at least before the revolution. You can think of anything, we do not pass the Unified State Examination, but argue about the fate of millions of our compatriots. And shine with knowledge of the Russian language will be in the relevant topic

[nerd.su]

Quote: KUBANA777

Nerd have a nerd

And how do you like! I don’t hide it, not everyone can be real boys.
Who does not like very smart, can not read further, you can immediately minus

Quote: KUBANA777

.As we consider a comma (we select thought)

What thought? You say that we are arguing. I say

Quote: bot.su

we, Russians, consider the east of Ukraine and Crimea to be native Russian territories

... Since you are arguing with me, then you do not agree with this statement. "How we think it," - highlight the thought! It turns out that you are saying the following:
"How do we think East of Ukraine and Crimea are originally Russian territories, they were the Russian territories of Russia, at least before the revolution. "Did you understand what you said? I am not caring about the fact that you" at least "do not single out commas on both sides, this does not affect the meaning. If you agree with me, then the expression "how we count it" is superfluous. If you do not agree, you should put a question mark after it. Then you do not understand the Russian word "we count." If, suppose, purely theoretically, that your native language is English, then you incorrectly translated for themselves how to say or assume, then it is understandable why you argue with me.

Dear Alexander! Do not call me an incorrigible nerd or paranoid, everywhere seeing foreign agents. Just do not neglect the Russian language. Unsuccessfully written phrases, mistakes can be corrected here and some time after you posted your comment.

[KUBANA777]

Quote: bot.su

"As we consider the east of Ukraine and Crimea to be primordially Russian territories, they were Russian territories of Russia, at least before the revolution." Did you understand what you said?

they themselves understood what they had done, removed the comma (punctuation mark by the way) and drill something ......... the phrase changed the meaning of "to execute cannot be pardoned"

Quote: bot.su

If, assuming, purely theoretically, that your native language is English, then you have translated it incorrectly for yourself, like say-say or assume-assume. Then it’s clear why you argue with me.

You, dear, need to be treated, this is what theory you have invented, the Englishman would just put everything right, and you are nicer than taking the exam for the military. Review, it would be better if they delved into the essence of the issue, but they would express smart thoughts, otherwise, like an old teacher with a pointer above the visitors, and by the way, "stop the thief, the thief himself shouts" we have already passed the translation of the arrows, judging by your comments with your history rather tight, but Russian perfectly, even without a dictionary

Quote: bot.su

Unsuccessfully written phrases, mistakes can be corrected here and some time after you posted your comment.

It is possible, but today the site is buggy and doubles and immediately resets so that today's comments are not controlled

[nerd.su]

I almost joked about English For clarity, proper use of the language. I read your comments. Yes, you are just a professor of history and genetics. I am surprised to hear new revelations!

Quote: KUBANA777

You need a respected treatment

And what diagnosis are they making to you, colleague?

[KUBANA777]

Quote: bot.su

And what diagnosis are they making to you, colleague?

Well, if you see "sent Cossacks" in everyone, then this is already a diagnosis, just kidding. Errors are sometimes the result of fast typing, a killed keyboard and the need to respond to many.

Quote: bot.su

Yes, you are just a professor of history and genetics. I am surprised to hear new revelations!

I don’t get into topics about any weapons or other uninteresting topics, but I try not to miss such topics. Especially since I live in the Kuban and the family went through this, the rest of the knowledge is the result of constant reading, studying different directions of history and visiting historical sites.

[avt]

Quote: KUBANA777

, You do not know what, for example, the new government did in the Kuban, and maybe in my youth, I would have condemned them out of ignorance, but now having a family I already doubt that I would not have taken the pitchfork (figurative expression) and would not have protected them . AT

And there was no need to break the oath, to merge the supreme commander in February 1917, when EVERYONE was betrayed, including Krasnov, who discouraged the Cossack corps and Kornilov, who did not fulfill the order of the tsar and the commander in chief concurrently. And how many gentlemen of their nobility and rank-and-file Cossacks supported Kornilov, who left for the Ice Campaign? So much so that General Kaledin shot himself in shame. We got what they should have received from the open-minded Bolsheviks - to the ground, and then, we are OUR , we will build a new world .. "

Quote: KUBANA777

So do not judge and you will not be judged, most of these Cossacks simply took revenge

For starters, do not mix non-miscible. And it turns out painfully interesting. Us

Quote: KUBANA777

do not judge and you will not be judged

And you mean

Quote: KUBANA777

Most of these Cossacks simply took revenge.

Well, if you are an Orthodox Christian, what about "I will take revenge and I will repay" ??? Now you only hear that Orthodoxy has no better protection than the Cossacks. Holui Hitler's lackeys and will remain, they received what they deserved. And if it’s so sorry, you can go and to hang on in the name of freeing up living space for the "superior race" in pursuance of Hitler's plan "Ost", which they diligently carried out, renouncing their homeland and for the sake of getting into the SS, declaring themselves to be some kind of knee of those who had gone to the wrong place. the current velikokry who have suddenly shaved themselves off, just keep in mind that such "avengers" have one fate and will continue to serve as punishers, executioners of the owners who keep them as slaves, and hang out on the gallows if they cannot escape with the invaders.

[KUBANA777]

Quote: avt

And it was not necessary to break the oath, to merge the supreme commander in February 1917, when ALL was betrayed

And you will notice that the Cossacks throughout their history are constantly being thrown by rulers of all stripes, including whites and reds and Germans, they will all use and abandon. And by the way, according to you, when they were "to the ground, and then" they had to stand and wait for destruction or fight

Quote: avt

For starters, do not mix non-miscible

and what to mix, it really took revenge, the Cossacks (old, real) who survived then remember that terror with emotion, think they remember their tears and would take revenge and don’t know who, and then they didn’t know who had the strength in 1932 ,
“The villages and farms surrounded by the troops turned into reservations, from where there was only one exit - to the cemetery.

Groups of activists who were given special food rations walked around the village, taking away from the people who were exhausted from hunger the last thing that could support their lives — taverns, beetroot, sunflower seeds, beans, peas, and makuha ... The goal was the same - to make people fear of starvation to give away grain, hidden as party propaganda claimed, from the state, to fulfill the approved grain-supply plan at any cost. All the dogs and cats were eaten in the villages, sometimes children disappeared - there were cases of cannibalism ...
And at the same time, as the Soviet historian N. Ya. Eidelman testifies, “when all over the Kuban people who were swollen from hunger were herded into echelons of many thousands to be sent to northern camps, in many points of the same Kuban, hundreds of thousands of poods of bread ... ""
http://vojnik.org/ussr/2

Quote: avt

Well, if the Orthodox Christian is right, how to deal with ,, Vengeance and I will repay

Quote: avt

And if so sorry - you can go and strangle yourself in the name of
liberation of living space

rude of course, but it’s for your information that the Cossacks have been pedigree since pre-Christian times and after baptism not all the commandments are fulfilled. FAITH is a mixture of Christianity and paganism and will not turn the other cheek, you ask the current officers who will go to church they turn the cheek., and in 1917 they carried out the order of the commander in chief, a coward who left Russia to the mercy of fate of Nicholas 2. The order is an order

[avt]

Quote: KUBANA777

And you will notice that the Cossacks throughout their history are constantly thrown rulers of all stripes

Can I start crying? No, first, clarify how and what Nicky No. 2 "threw" the Cossacks, and he very much liked to dress up in the uniform of the Life Guards of the Ataman Regiment. At the same time tell me unreasonable why he offended Krasnov so much, Kornilov then changed his mind - but it's too late that he, Cossack '' under the protectorate of the Germans decided to do

Quote: KUBANA777

and what to mix, it really took revenge, the Cossacks (old, real) who survived then remember that terror with emotion, think they remember their tears and would take revenge and don’t know who, and then they didn’t know who had the strength in 1932 ,

And how they wanted !? And to score on the oath and sit out from the new authorities ?? The Bolsheviks, we must pay tribute to them, honestly warned EVERYONE - "We will drive mankind into happiness with an iron hand", We will transfer the imperialist war into a civil war ", ... we are OUR, we will build a NEW world, whoever was nobody, he will become everything ... "Didn't you have enough mind to understand and resist all this? Blame yourself.

Quote: KUBANA777

Cossacks have their pedigree since pre-Christian times and after baptism, not all commandments are fulfilled. FAITH is a mixture of Christianity and paganism and will not turn the other cheek

Not an hour from the Great Dawn? Or maybe when it was necessary to rise above the Slavs in the eyes of Hitler, a knee lost in the wild steppes, unknown to historians, is ready? So after all, they mowed when they were eager to SS for increased soldering. Here are the Christians, here are the Gentiles. Does this mean both yours and ours for the ruble? No, for us Slavs, in your opinion not very ancient, it is difficult to keep up with such a chameleon logic.

Quote: KUBANA777

you ask the current officers who go to church whether they will turn the cheek

That's when you stop being mumbled clowns, when you yourself decide which gods you pray, and not those who are profitable, then we'll talk. But for starters, I recommend reading the primary sources, well, where the law of Moses is, where "an eye for an eye", the New Testament, where "I came not to change, but to add", then you will come to understand for WHOM is intended for the cheek, in relation to WHOM. In the meantime, you portray candlesticks in the church as "defenders of Orthodoxy" with a pagan fig in your pocket, there is nothing to argue about, since you have no knowledge of either paganism or Orthodoxy, except for your thoughts, which are adjusted at the right time to the right answer.

Quote: KUBANA777

a coward who left Russia to the mercy of fate of Nicholas 2. An order is an order

Order ??? A letter beginning with the words "To the Chief of the General Staff ..." published in a newspaper by the conspirators under the title of Manifesto, according to your order? And the telegrams of the generals with the answer, how is it? When this order was answered, they say, go away, the tsar, go away? the second letter in which the tsar rejected the first and which, according to Alekseev's memoirs, and not Bolshevik propaganda, he put in his pocket ??

[KUBANA777]

Quote: avt

No, first specify how and in what Nicky No. 2 ,,

Well, I would give the command "Forward", and he drifted for which the whole family and paid,

Quote: avt

Not smart enough to understand and resist all this?

so you just for the resistance and in the tail and in the mane, you will not please, and by the way, do not be hypocritical, not a single people survived against the state machine, take for example the recent events with Chechnya, the state has the ability to endlessly throw its own a soldier, but he will achieve his goal, and in the case of the Civil War, it was profitable for the "God-chosen" government to put more Russians.

Quote: avt

No, for us Slavs, in your opinion not very ancient, it is difficult to keep up with such a chameleon logic.

that is, you Cossacks, Kuban, Tertsy, Donchaks, etc. Do not you think the Slavs are mistaken, my friend, they are more Slavs and Rusichs than any Rusich from the capital, while someone incest there was serving, observing the laws of the fathers and protecting the borders Ilya Muromets and that Cossack were. And if you think that before the baptism there were no Slavs of the Gentiles, you are mistaken again, and even the forelock of Svyatoslav the Gentile was inherited by the Zaporozhian Cossacks. Well, genetics have long put everything on the shelves of both Aryans and Slavs and Russians ....

Quote: avt

That's when you cease to be disguised clowns, when you yourself decide which gods you pray

I mean the officers of the modern army who go to regimental churches (as it’s fashionable now, and even soldiers leading the ranks there) they’ll either turn their cheeks as they were in the 17th or they will give you tasks,

The Christian interpretation of the principle of talion was greatly influenced by a quote from Leviticus (19:18, see above) during the Sermon on the Mount Jesus Christ. In that part of the sermon, called the “Evolution of the Law,” Jesus calls on his followers to “turn the other cheek” when faced with violence:
You heard what is said: an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. But I tell you: do not resist evil. But whoever hits you on your right cheek, turn to him another
- Matthew 5: 38-39
And for Moses it sounds like this ........ In the Torah, this principle applies only in the case of a murder (see Bemidbar, 35:31: “And do not take the atoning gift for the soul of a murderer, a villain who must die, but he will be put to death. ”) From the following verses of the Torah, it is obvious that for all physical injuries inflicted by one person to another, provided that they do not lead to death, a monetary expression must be found, and the inflicter of damage must compensate for them. Thus, the expression of the Torah “eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot” should be understood as a requirement to compensate the victim for the damage by paying a fine in the amount that the judges will define as the cost of losing health, disability, etc. . (see verse 19).
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CF%F0%E8%ED%F6%E8%EF_%F2%E0%EB%E8%EE%ED%E0

Quote: avt

And what to do with the second letter in which the king refused
from the first and which, according to Alekseev’s memoirs,

first. the second, the nurse who had the secret police, special services and missed the beginning of the end, you think it’s normal when the commander in chief writes one letter, the second, both are opposite, the Russians have such a reaction, wait for the third

[avt]

Quote: KUBANA777

that is, you Cossacks, Kuban, Tertsy, Donchaks, etc. do not consider the Slavs

I AM !? When did I say that the Cossacks are a separate people?

Quote: KUBANA777

it’s just that the Cossacks have their pedigree since pre-Christian times

For the time being, no one really speaks of anyone from whom the pedigree is, but now some people claim that they are not from Russians at all.

Quote: KUBANA777

Jesus calls on his followers to “turn the other cheek” when faced with violence:
You heard what is said: an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. But I tell you: do not resist evil. But whoever hits you on your right cheek, turn to him another

Once again, "I have not come to change, but to add," I have not brought peace, but a sword. " The fiction about turning the cheeks is very fond of liberoids for the Orthodox to poke, but the priests hide behind it so as not to do anything. A person lives according to Christ's commandments, offended with what, do not be angry - answer in a word, give an attempt at repentance - change your mind. Well, if the commandments on the phalos are to him - here is the Mosaic law - an eye for an eye just right, without lisping about not shedding blood and the fact that it was not we who gave life, it is not for us to take it away. So it is completely according to the law - that is, not revenge , another comrade will prescribe revenge about which he himself and informed in advance, so that it cannot be an unexpected surprise.

Quote: KUBANA777

first. the second, the nurse who had the secret police, special services and missed the beginning of the end, you think it’s normal when the commander in chief writes one letter, the second, both are opposite, the Russians have such a reaction, wait for the third

The fact that a weakling is yes. They seized him at the Dno station, and their own guard. And then everything is simple, the letter as a litmus test revealed the entire scale of the palace coup carried out by his "close circle", practically relatives and generals. Only their high transcendences broke away from the people too much, forgot the wisdom of the people - horses on the ferry do not change. And even more so that this ferry is a war, for which they paid, including all those who followed them. Well, then came the guys who were tough, but handy, with an idea that most of the people in the Empire accepted with a bang, inspired by a concrete, without any sentimentality and morality, they had one - revolutionary expediency, but for those, others, again according to popular wisdom, it remained - the claw was stuck, so the whole bird would disappear.

Quote: KUBANA777

and by the way, don’t be hypocrites, not a single nation against the state machine has survived,

Previously, it was necessary to think when there was an opportunity, and actually they held this very "state machine" in their hands, and not to throw it on the road with a full tank and keys in the ignition, then the remaining ones would not have to moan that someone had run over them, but Now, if they were driving, then they really, yes. Here the story threw out the pretzel in the form of a farce the same with the communists in 1991, but I don't want to laugh, they were laughing at 17, but it didn't work - they merged the country with labor, rebuilt with sweat and blood.

[KUBANA777]

Quote: avt

I AM !? When did I say that the Cossacks are a separate people?

No, we Slavs, in your opinion not very ancient, it’s hard to keep up with such a chameleon logic ............. Your own words, it follows that the rest are not Slavs.

Quote: avt

For the time being, no one really speaks of anyone from whom the pedigree is, but now some people claim that they are not from Russians at all.

not from the Jewish ones exactly (Khazars) I mean, you read even more accurate information about the inhabitants of those territories that since ancient times have been occupied by Cossacks, Cossacks and Donchaks at least. Of course, if not difficult

Quote: avt

The invention about turning cheeks is very fond of Orthodox liberoids poking, but the priests are hiding behind it so that nothing would be done

you cannot throw out words from the Bible. The New Testament (gospel) was invented to curb the Slavs whom all of Europe was afraid of, since the time of Askold, the Kievites probably took Constantinople three times, and Oleg once went and got into a poem on you, because the poems were written by court verses, and Askold was not in this song fit, for that they killed the legitimate ruler of Kiev and Kievan Rus, who three times Constantinople took and received tribute from them and remained in treaties and chronicles, and note this during the time of Rurik, but regardless of Novgorod Rus, there was already Kievan Rus Askold and then appeared Byzantine priests had already thrown the first seed of pacification in Kievan Rus'. So you can't throw out the words from the song, there was a Sermon on the Mount, and he said that there and the goal of the priests now is to hammer into the Christian Slavs, so as not to let the Russian spirit out. Including the Cossack. priests did not call themselves "Servant of God"

Quote: avt

The Mosaic Law - an eye for an eye just right, without sussing

That is, you did not understand that in Judaism "an eye for an eye" the huckster's version, as in America now, hurt, let's go to court.

Quote: avt

Clamped him at the bottom of the station

he went to this bottom himself, and in 1905 and later, as one could give his life for this squelch, it was disgusting for everyone to fight for him, so they played his top, but the bottom (soldier) had no word and the strike had no right to organize

Quote: avt

Earlier it was necessary to think when there was an opportunity, and actually they held this very "state machine" in their hands

you are mistaken in the hands of others, and these wheels pumped up, but the glass was wiped

[avt]

Quote: KUBANA777

..Your words, it follows that the rest are not Slavs.

It follows that I am a Slav, I belong to the Russian World, and I’m not looking for any other cunning ancient Velikoukorovsky type.

Quote: KUBANA777

not from the Jewish ones exactly (Khazars) I mean, you read even more accurate information about the inhabitants of those territories that since ancient times have been occupied by Cossacks, Cossacks and Donchaks at least. Of course, if not difficult

Why, then, it’s not difficult, many people explored in Asia - from the Slavic Az - the first, the countries of the first people and the city with an Asian name on the map, only one survived - Azov, like the Sea of ​​Azov. So the Heyerdahl tour found the roots of the Scandinavians there, for which he was declared crazy. But for what reason has the Khazar been wiped off the face of the earth? Actually, these guys with the Old Testament religion were very successful and with one cavalry attack by Svyatoslav their power was destroyed only in the songs and history written by the Germans. So the Slavs got acquainted with the Bible much earlier than the mythical ambassadors of Vladimir went to Constantinople when the new state religion was adopted.

Quote: KUBANA777

That is, you did not understand that in Judaism "an eye for an eye" is a commercial option

The Law of Moses is the first printed criminal code for wild tribes, where specifically, and not as it seems to you, penalties for crimes of varying severity are written and, by agreement of the parties, material compensation for the damage caused is allowed.

Quote: KUBANA777

how one could give his life for this sloop, it was disgusting for everyone to fight for him,

Well, there was only one alternative - the strongest will win and at that time, already in 1905, it was clear who they were and by what methods they would establish their power, so sign and get it.

Quote: KUBANA777

you are mistaken in the hands of others, and these wheels pumped up, but the glass was wiped

And this has been heard more than once in different versions from - “What can we do? Nothing depends on us. ", Before -" We only carried out the order. "

[KUBANA777]

Quote: avt

Velikoukorovsky not looking for roots

he praises you in the wrong place, someone doesn’t talk about the great-Ukrainian people, where did you see this, don’t tell me, the Slav is good, Russian is thank God, the main thing is that the marker of your Russianness coincides with the marker of the Slavic genotype that not all Russians get better than from the same Bulgarians and Poles, (study the question) and to determine which world you belong to, I have no opportunity, except for your statements.

Quote: avt

like the Sea of ​​Azov

in the time of proto-Slavs-Cimmerians, after them the Scythians, the Sea of ​​Azov was a swamp, writes about this, people whose works are used to somehow restore the history of Russians, except for genetic research, Herodotus.

Quote: avt

But that's why the Khazars have been wiped off the face of the earth

such times were then, you won’t believe it, if you don’t know, but BC the Scythians (our ancestors by genes) destroyed the Cimmerians (also ancestors by genes), and by the way they destroyed to the end, they (Scythians) were destroyed by the Sarmatians, almost to the end but the Sarmatians are not related to us Russians by blood, they are relatives to the Alans, etc.
it follows that in those days every strong ethnos tried not to subjugate, namely, to destroy another ethnos. Well, Jews are a tradition, firstly cunning, secondly they executed Christ, and Christians will not forgive them for this

Quote: avt

So the Slavs got acquainted with the Bible much earlier

and we know that, the first Christians among princes and among ordinary people appeared in Kievan, Askoldova, Russia (again Herodotus), Rurik was still alive and reigned in Novgorod Russia (then he died, then Oleg, then he killed, then he captured Kiev ), and there the Christians were among the leadership .......

Quote: avt

The Law of Moses - First Printed Criminal Code for Wild Tribes

You’re mistaken. The Vedas that exist now in the same India were written three hundred years before Moses, and you probably don’t know, but in the same territory of present-day Russia and Europe, historical processes independent of the Bible and Moses were going on at the same time ( empires, peoples disappeared,) and somewhere at that time one slave took 600 slaves and led them through the desert, created an ethnos from them, etc.) At that time, the rulers of the current Russian territories did not give a damn about them.
Jehovah's Law, for Jews, allegedly transmitted through Moses, is the law of a certain god, for a certain nation, there should not be followers at all except Jews.

Quote: avt

already in 1905, it was clear who it was and by what methods they would establish their power

according to your Cossacks back in 1905, it was necessary to molt, breaking the oath and leaving the king.

Quote: avt

“What can we do? Nothing depends on us. ", Before -" We only carried out the order. "

a lot depends on the soldier of the "Berkut" carrying out the order, soldiers are always a bargaining chip

[Vladimirets]

Quote: bya965

Cossacks von Pannwitz, many of whom have never lived in the USSR, are a civil war.

Where is the logic? If they did not live in the USSR, then what could be a civil war?

[bya965]

Cossacks, for example, are in Australia. There are a lot of films about them on youtube. They still, probably already in the 5th generation, consider Russia their Motherland. So, there is no logic here.
I just love my homeland and nothing to do with logic.

[chunga-changa]

Some individuals call you at the door and say: - "Our ancestors lived in this apartment 5 generations ago, well, we actually consider it ours. We will not evict you yet, but free up a large room, these two shelves in the refrigerator are ours, and on Saturdays, friends come to us to drink vodka, you leave the apartment on Saturdays and return no earlier than mid-Sunday. " And your son is jumping around: - "Mom, Dad, let them live, they are cool, with forelocks and stripes. We have photographs of your ancestors lying around somewhere, with sabers and against the background of gallows, now I will find it."
Then there are two ways, either in the future to give an apartment, or the son of a bream that he wouldn’t be bullshit and wouldn’t go into adult affairs for stupidity, and send visitors to the cheerful letters and call the police. Such a logic.

[atalef]

Quote: Vladimirets

Where is the logic? If they did not live in the USSR, then what could be a civil war?

You are absolutely right, there is no logic. Some frequent fugitive Cossacks (or rather their children) came - never living in Russia or having left (fled) by children. Returned, what to do? Revenge? To whom did they return with whom? With fascist rabble, but after that they try to blame it on the civil war.
Many here boast Cossacks defenders of the Serbs - whose parents fathers and grandfathers 15th Cossack SS division cut villages. We’ll miss the same episode.
I’ll look - the Cossacks (traitors, I note. Not all Cossacks) just did what they took revenge on everyone. No power. but to ordinary people.
The only problem is. that remembering about 1812. Cossacks forget a little what happened in 1941-45. the memory is so selective.

[ArhipenkoAndrey]

Yes, there are no flies separately, but cutlets separately, the civil war is the internal grief of the country, and when the enemy came, disagreements recede into the background and when the Judas fight in the ranks of the invaders, these are traitors, and the picture is pitiful, why did they hang their heads before the English? weakly their old men and women with children, or only with partisans hungry and untrained were dashing grunts?

[parus2nik]

Cool excuse: Not a traitor to the Motherland, But a fighter against Bolshevism ...

[rubin6286]

Kononov, Vlasov are traitors, and Shkuro, Krasnov, Sultan-Girey are not only fighters against Bolshevism and enemies of Soviet power, but also traitors to the homeland. Death by hanging is just punishment for them. Pannwitz is a German officer, a loyal oath and fought where he was ordered and as ordered. In this, he is worthy of respect, although the hands of his subordinates are stained with the blood of innocent victims. No less criminal were the acts of the fascist field marshals Sherner and Kleist, but the Soviet court did not sentence them to death, but it is a pity.

[makarov]

There was a Cossack unit in my city. Basically, they were engaged in providing the hijacking of young people to Germany, and at the same time they were recruiting. The question was, either to Germany, or to serve us? At the same time, they naturally promised "mountains of gold" + a horse, a uniform, and a saber. Old-timers told me about this when they conducted a historical survey.

[atalef]

Quote: makarov

The question was, either to Germany, or to serve us? At the same time, they naturally promised "mountains of gold" + a horse, a uniform, and a saber. Old-timers told me about this when they conducted a historical survey.

In the occupied territories everywhere such a question was raised, but for some reason the Russians, Ukrainians, Belarusians, Jews and many others went to the partisans. I didn’t hear about Cossack partisan detachments. like the Cossacks hijacked to Germany (to work), apparently the Cossacks in the occupied territories had a simpler question - or rather, he didn’t even - they simply took a saber. horse. form and went .... to fight for Germany.
I'm talking about the occupied territories.

[Rebus]

Quote: atalef

I didn’t hear about Cossack partisan

If you have not heard about something, then this does not mean that this was not. For example, I have not heard of Jewish partisan units ...
Only in the Kuban, during the occupation of 42-43, there were 73 partisan detachments (about 6500 men), and these were mainly Cossacks.

[atalef]

Quote: Rebus

Quote: atalef

I didn’t hear about Cossack partisan

If you have not heard about something, then this does not mean that this was not. For example, I have not heard of Jewish partisan units ...
Only in the Kuban, during the occupation of 42-43, there were 73 partisan detachments (about 6500 men), and these were mainly Cossacks.

Please, one of many examples.

According to the materials of the National Archive of the Republic of Belarus, Jewish resistance arose in the very first days of the occupation of the republic. There were almost no ghettos where an underground organization was not operating. In the 100-thousandth Minsk ghetto, under the leadership of Isai Kazints and Mikhail Gebelev, 22 underground groups were active, uniting more than three hundred people. On their combat account sabotage acts and sabotage at German enterprises and the railway junction, thousands of people withdrawn from the ghetto to partisan detachments.

Prisoners of the ghettos of Bialystok, Nesvizh, Kletsk, Lakhvy, Derechin rebelled and heroically fought with punishers. An example of undaunted courage and courage was the armed uprising in the Glubokoe ghetto. A document compiled by the command of the 1st partisan brigade on August 29, 1943 on fresh traces of events was found in the National Archives of the Republic of Belarus. It says: "The uprising began on August 19, 1943, organized by Comrade. Lieberman. A battle ensued with the Germans and the police. The Germans opened artillery fire, tanks approached. But nothing could hold back this onslaught, the Jews resisted, 100 Nazis were killed and wounded. Some of the Jews went into the woods, and most of them were shot. ”

The Jews, Slonim, Miior, Druha, Sharkovshchina, Braslov, Volozhin, Koldychev, also showed fierce resistance to the Nazis and their minions ... In May 43, 180 Jews brought to the place of execution unexpectedly attacked the German guard in the town of Radun. Although the SS men were armed, the brave men managed to get the better of them. Victory was not easy. Killed 20 youths, but everyone else fled into the forest. The long-term director Yad Vashem, doctor of history Yitzhak Arad, a 16-year-old boy who became a partisan in the Belarusian forests, and in the post-war years as the general of the Israel Defense Forces, wrote: “People should know. We did not go to death dutifully and meekly. We defended as best we could. Often with bare hands and almost always without any help. ”

The General Commissar of Belarus, Wilhelm Kube, informed Reichskommissar Ostland: “In all the armed clashes with the partisans of Belarus, it turned out that Jewry ... is the main inspirer of the partisan movement.”

But the request - Cossack partisan detachments --- gives out for some reason only - against the Turkish Sultan and the war of 1812. Maybe you are digging something, I will be glad to get acquainted. Maybe I'm wrong in something

[Rebus]

Quote: atalef

Maybe you are digging something, I will be glad to get acquainted. Maybe I'm wrong in something

1st Belarusian Special Cossack Partisan Brigade

And try to recruit "partisan movement in the North Caucasus"

[atalef]

Quote: Rebus

1st Belarusian Special Cossack Partisan Brigade

read, I just would not want to call her Cossack (without touching the merits of her commander, the Cossack who called her that)
The brigade (although of course in personnel it was far from the brigade, but nonetheless) was partisan in Belarus and consisted mainly of Belarusians and Red Army soldiers who had escaped from captivity. Kazakov there was actually a minuscule

The detachment quickly replenished at the expense of Belarusian youth and former Red Army soldiers hiding in the villages (in particular, one of the first was “mobilized” Major Grechanichenko, who respected as a private individual, whom Denisenko respected very much, but still did not allow him to take a command post). Acting with desperate courage, Denisenko soon became famous among the local population as “ataman Mityai”. In August 1942, he deployed a detachment to the Special Cossack Belorussian Cavalry Division, and in April 1943 to the 1st Belorussian Special Cossack Partisan Brigade,

Again, thanks for the info, albeit not entirely accurate, but nonetheless. I agree with you Cossacks partisan, not much - but there are

[KUBANA777]

Quote: atalef

But the request - Cossack partisan detachments --- gives out for some reason only - against the Turkish Sultan and the war of 1812. Maybe you are digging something, I will be glad to get acquainted. Maybe I'm wrong in something

By the time of the Second World War, the population was artificially mixed in the Kuban and the word "kakzak" was not used much (as, for example, today among the mummers), therefore there was no separate Cossack partisan movement, there was opposition from the inhabitants of the Kuban to the Nazis, and the Germans contributed to the destruction of the indigenous Kuban, if you remember, that "gas chambers" were first used in Krasnodar, therefore, during the Sov. the authorities inflicted crushing damage on the Cossacks in the Kuban, they were simply tried to exterminate all and sundry and by any means

[lukke]

But the request - Cossack partisan detachments --- gives out for some reason only - against the Turkish Sultan and the war of 1812. Maybe you are digging something, I will be glad to get acquainted. Maybe I'm wrong about something hi

Yes, the whole trick is that after the abolition (liquidation) of the Cossacks, many Cossacks already indicated themselves in the documents as Ukrainians, Russians - according to the column nationality in the passport (if urban). Therefore, my grandfather, for example, commanded a tank platoon in the 1st Guards Ural and in all forms wrote himself Ukrainian, although from the Cossacks. What do you think - in what statistics during the Soviet era it was included?

[atalef]

Quote: lukke

Therefore, my grandfather, for example, commanded a tank platoon in the 1st Guards Ural and in all forms wrote himself Ukrainian, although from the Cossacks. What do you think - in what statistics during the Soviet era it was included?

So here I am about whether the Cossacks are Russian or not?
If not Russian-then please autonomous n.okrug and the type of this. behave like nat. minority and please, without waving legs, including in front of persons of state-forming nationality. I understand correctly? Or are the Cossacks taller than the Russians?

[lukke]

So here I am about whether the Cossacks are Russian or not?
If not Russian-then please autonomous n.okrug and the type of this. behave like nat. minority and please, without waving legs, including in front of persons of state-forming nationality. I understand correctly? Or are the Cossacks taller than the Russians?

In our times, the Cossacks are not the military-economic class that it was until the end of the Civil War, and therefore each Cossack determines his own nationality. In the Zaporizhzhya Sich, in order to become a Cossack to the newcomer, it was necessary to be Orthodox, to have at least two guarantors from the Sachevichs (and this immediately determined that you should be at least not a timid one who is not ashamed to vouch for). According to this, following an old example - nationality played a secondary role, but taking into account geography - from Africa Arapa Peter the Great did not get there. Although we can some Turkish orphan and reforged in their own way during their existence)) But the question is who is cooler - a Cossack or a Russian, we did not stand. This is closer to you - God's chosen ones, and we ... smoke aside, in a word, goyim

[Buivol]

It was not accepted to write about Jewish partisan detachments in Soviet times. The Soviet people were united. Although our Jews were one of the first to organize partisan detachments in Belarus. There was even a story when the "lords" from the Regional Army were offended by the fact that some "Jews", "slaves", "psya krev" took up arms and gave a light to the "true Aryans", did you see the noble "panstvo" noble military affairs. As a result, the AK detachment attacked a partisan detachment consisting of Belarusian Jews. The saddest thing is that now the descendants of those "lords" are trying to erect monuments to their "noble" ancestors on the site of that battle. Thank God, it is true, they were forced to remove this monument, but in Kurapaty a monument to Polish officers allegedly shot by the Bolsheviks remained, although all five documented names of those executed in Kurapaty are Jewish. In fact, the workers of the Memorial erected a monument to anti-Semites at the Jewish grave!

[makarov]

I don’t even have to undermine the layers of memory.
In sec. Bolshaya Znamenka, right in the center, lived my grandmother, an underground worker during the Second World War, but on the contrary, a Jew lived across the street, I don’t remember her last name, but her name was Nona Alexandrovna. so, during the occupation, she worked as a translator in the German gendarmerie. And when my grandmother, a rural teacher, was arrested and sentenced to be shot, the neighbor didn’t hit a finger on her finger in order to somehow help.
Moreover, when ours came, they did not even judge her, and did not attract her. And so she lived until her natural death. Constantly asked me to catch crayfish for her money. Of course, I drove the crayfish to her for free, since it was not customary to take money from neighbors. The village had its unshakable foundations.

[smersh70]

Quote: makarov

the neighbor didn’t hit a finger to help.

Quote: makarov

my grandmother, an underground worker during the Second World War

Pavel, this was a firing squad, so she couldn’t help

Quote: makarov

Of course, I drove the crayfish to her for free, since it was not customary to take money from neighbors. The village had its unshakable foundations.

but for that respect !!! it’s everywhere except Germany

[KUBANA777]

Quote: makarov

on the contrary, across the street, a Jew lived, I don’t remember my last name,

these in life have developed the ability to survive in any situation

[Vladimirets]

"In fact, the Nazis massively used horses both in 1941 and 1945."

The Nazis used horses almost more than the Red Army.

[invisibility]

Yes exactly. If not more, then on equal terms. In the Red Army, the number of cavalry divisions before the war was declining rapidly.

[avt]

Quote: Vladimirets

The Nazis used horses almost more than the Red Army.

In the 41st, hundreds of thousands were taken from the population, the source is Muller Hildenbrandt's guide to the Wehrmacht ground forces, to provide infantry transport. And without any groans about the horse marshals.

[Enjoy]

Quote: kaktus

Glory to the heroes! Traitors - what they deserve!

Sorry, I missed and slammed the minus ((((((((

Comrades, please correct this jamb (

[invisibility]

Corrected ... Since you maryarych ...

[malikszh]

They are traitors and the sky to justify them with such sathyas

[Smirnov Vadim]

Read the article did not try? Or is the title enough?

[atalef]

And that is not all! Any questions?

Well of course there are
Why in your article you indicated only the 15th Cossack SS division
These are far from the only parts of the Cossacks who fought in the Wehrmacht.
As well as the fact that they fought not only in Yugoslavia, but also on the territory of the USSR, destroying Soviet citizens, partisans, civilians, and otom on the eastern front

It was a Cossack squadron under the command of the major of the Red Army I.N. who had recently passed over to the Germans. Kononova. During the year, the command of the rear area formed 4 more squadrons and by September 1942, under the command of Kononov, there was the 102nd (from October - 600th) Cossack Division (1, 2, 3 horse cavalry squads, 4, 5, 6th Plastun companies, machine gun company, mortar and artillery batteries). The total number of the division was 1799 people,. Throughout 1942-1943 divisions of the division fought intensely against partisans in the areas of Bobruisk, Mogilev, Smolensk, Nevel and Polotsk.

We fought in the Crimea

From the Cossack hundreds formed at the army and corps headquarters of the German 17th Army, by order of June 13, 1942, the Cossack cavalry regiment "Platov" was formed. It consisted of 5 horse squadrons, a heavy weapons squadron, an artillery battery and a spare squadron. Wehrmacht Major E. Thomsen was appointed commander of the regiment. Since September 1942, the regiment was used to guard the reconstruction of the Maykop oil fields, and at the end of January 1943 it was transferred to the Novorossiysk region, where it guarded the sea coast and at the same time participated in the operations of German and Romanian troops against partisans. In the spring of 1943, he defended the “Kuban bridgehead fortification,” reflecting the Soviet naval assault forces north-east of Temryuk, until at the end of May he was removed from the front and withdrawn to the Crimea.

They fought in parts mixed with Germans

The Cossack cavalry regiment "Jungshulz", formed in the summer of 1942 as part of the 1st Wehrmacht tank army, bore the name of its commander - Lieutenant Colonel I. von Jungshulz. Initially, the regiment had only two squadrons, one of which was purely German, and the second consisted of Cossack defectors. Starting in September 1942, the Jungshulz regiment operated on the left flank of the 1st Panzer Army in the Achikulak-Budennovsk area, taking an active part in the battles against the Soviet cavalry.

And you can continue for a long, long time about all the exploits of the Cossack units as part of the Wehrmacht and the SS on the eastern front.
Killed thousands and thousands of Soviet citizens. Why the author of the article not only did not mention these well-known facts - let us leave it on his conscience.
Trying to adjust history to his personal feelings and desires of modern Cossacks to receive an exclusive role in modern Russia. The question is very simple, do they deserve all this?

[Vladimirets]

Quote: atalef

Why in your article you indicated only the 15th Cossack SS division

Sorry to get in, but probably because the article is about this division.

[atalef]

Quote: Vladimirets

Sorry to get in, but probably because the article is about this division.

The article is far from about this division, the article appeared against the background of the previous article about * Cossack genocide *, the author (probably one of the newly-born Cossacks) after the Cossacks received a certain number of well-deserved lyuli in some comments and some reminder that you don’t need to remember the story to claim the role of saviors of Russia, after all that you did for it in the 20th century ---- decided to whitewash this whole shushara (I mean traitors), a little distorting the real story, so to speak. that is why in the article a single word about all Cossack units. about what they did on the territory of the USSR. but only about one 15th SS division — who fought in Yugoslavia and at the end a list of Cossack units in the Red Army.
Therefore, the article is minus, like the author-- his desire is understandable, but you won’t erase words from the song.

[KUBANA777]

Quote: atalef

Trying to adjust history to his personal feelings and desires of modern Cossacks to receive an exclusive role in modern Russia. The question is very simple, do they deserve all this?

most of the Cossack units, formed from the Cossacks who went abroad after the revolution, they just swore allegiance to the tsar-priest and the faithful to this oath returned. army (as the Crimean Tatars acted, where 20000 Tatars of military age deserted and fought on the German side, and 380 partisans were partisans), the overwhelming majority of Cossacks came from abroad and fought specifically against the Soviet regime, so who do they Reda more question Soviet Russia or the Russian Empire.

[atalef]

Quote: KUBANA777

, they then just swore an oath to the tsar-father and loyal to this oath returned

to kill Russians in honor of the murdered king 25 years ago? Do you even understand what heresy you are carrying? Who is back? 50-year-old Cossacks (who swore allegiance to Nicholas, or their children did not swear allegiance to anyone: Killing their half-brothers with no less cruelty than the Germans

Quote: KUBANA777

In my opinion there is no such story about Cossacks that the Red Cossack units would go over to the Germans, and then fight against the Red Army

Well, except for those who surrendered and entered the service in the Wehrmacht and the SS. What do you think all those who fought in the Cossack units were the children of the White Guard emigres?

Quote: KUBANA777

where 20000 Tatars of military age deserted and fought on the side of the Germans

This is not about the Tatars. don't you find?

Quote: KUBANA777

so who did they betray the question of the Soviet Russia or the Russian Empire.

A good excuse, better ask if they were killing whom? Germans? or their almost half-brothers.

[KUBANA777]

Quote: atalef

to kill Russians in honor of the murdered king 25 years ago? Do you even understand what heresy you are carrying?

not in honor of the king, but for the seized homeland (for example, the Israelis are killing Arabs who would occupy their historical homeland, think about it .... thousands of years ago ,,,,, and have been killing since 1947 systematically capturing someone else’s territory increasing their ... ... that’s where the heresy is. And here they’ve been home for 25 years. And they swore allegiance to FAITH (the Bolsheviks took it from everyone), the TsAR (they killed him) and the FATHERLAND (they took it, they ruined it, they killed it) how not to take revenge

Quote: atalef

What do you think all those who fought in the Cossack units were the children of the White Guard emigres?

You take a look at the photo, those Cossacks are similar to those below, Soviet. In my opinion it’s clear that everyone is well in their forties, and it’s possible to serve were captured, but remembering how the Soviet regime came with Cossacks)

Quote: atalef

This is not about the Tatars. don't you find?

I find that there were no mass transitions to the Germans

Quote: atalef

A good excuse, better ask if they were killing whom? Germans? or their almost half-brothers.

Poles near Tukhachevsky captured 150 captured Red Army soldiers, 000 were executed in captivity and died of starvation, but these are also Slav brothers, so this is not an indicator, the same Bendera ruined how many Slavs

[atalef]

Quote: KUBANA777

not in honor of the king, but for the seized homeland

Kill the Russians for their homeland taken away from them. Interesting pun

Quote: KUBANA777

for example, Israelis kill Arabs who would occupy supposedly their historical homeland

There will be an article about Israel - let's talk. In the meantime, do not try to jump off the topic

Quote: KUBANA777

And here they were not at home for 25 years. And they swore allegiance to FAITH (the Bolsheviks took it from everyone), the TsAR (they killed him) and the FATHERLAND (they took it, ruined, put it to death) how not to take revenge

And what is it called revenge in the war on the side of the enemy?

Quote: KUBANA777

You take a look at the photo, those Cossacks are similar to those below, Soviet

Do you know which ones are similar, which are not? You distinguish them by their faces, I would tell you judging by the film * Don Cossacks * - if you watched it - they even look like Soviet

Quote: KUBANA777

I find that there were no mass transitions to the Germans

What do you find based on?

Quote: KUBANA777

Poles near Tukhachevsky captured 150 captured Red Army soldiers, 000 were executed in captivity and died of starvation, but these are also Slav brothers, so this is not an indicator, the same Bendera ruined how many Slavs

Right It was, only the Poles and Bandera do not go around the cities and villages of the Russian Federation and do not yell-ANYTHING and that they are the only savior of Russia. And by the way, the attitude in Russia towards them is appropriate.

[KUBANA777]

Quote: atalef

Kill the Russians for their homeland taken away from them. Interesting pun

For a person with an Israeli flag. Maybe a pun, you certainly do not understand the mysterious Russian soul.

Quote: atalef

There will be an article about Israel - let's talk. In the meantime, do not try to jump off the topic

I'm trying to explain the situation with the examples available to you, so it can intelligibly. especially since you jumped from the answer

Quote: atalef

And what is it called revenge in the war on the side of the enemy?

Enemies of Russia, as already in the current history textbooks, the Reds are almost the enemies of the people, monuments to white generals are erected, MOVIES REMOVE COMPLETE, so it is not yet known who won 80 years later, in the Kuban they just want to revive the Cossacks .... Pre-revolutionary (the truth of whom)

Quote: atalef

Right It was, only the Poles and Bandera do not go around the cities and villages of the Russian Federation and do not yell-ANYTHING and that they are the only savior of Russia.

They don’t have anything to do here, but they yell at themselves, on the Maidan, who was both Poles and Bendera, and Georgians - why, the only one killed on the Maidan was an Armenian, and interestingly, a Wahhabi. And the Cossacks, by the way, don’t go to Russia, and shout-ANY-in their ancestral territories

[atalef]

extension
What Cossacks showed themselves as during the years of the USSR more Russian. Ukrainians, other nationalities? By labor - no, by military service - no - nothing outstanding - like all and nothing more than that. Nowadays - in addition to mummers, purchases of orders and medals, persecution of Caucasians by markets and old women by protection - Kushchevka is a wonderful example and it is far from alone
Who are they ? Due to * Cossack glory * 100-200-300 years ago, they want to get preferences now. First, earn it, wash yourself and admit your mass betrayal in the Second World War, and then scream ANYTHING in all corners and wave your legs
the list of literature is simply endless about the exploits of the Cossacks in the Second World War (without canceling heroism in parts of the red army (no more outstanding than others) - it is worth recalling their heroism in parts of the Wehrmacht and SS.
Let's just say for the sake of completeness
http://bka-roa.chat.ru/kosaken_1941_1943.htm
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%B0%D0%B7%D0%B0%D1%87%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D1%81%D
1%82%D0%B0%D0%BD
http://cossac-awards.narod.ru/Legion.html
http://belovolov-v.narod.ru/kazaki_i_vermaxt.htm

[Chicot 1]

Dear Alexander, you would be easier on the turns ... None of the Cossacks (I do not mean mummers or chain "registered") are not going to use the glory of their ancestors or (even more so) to appropriate someone else's glory ...
And with regards to modern Cossacks, I can briefly remind you of Transnistria, Yugoslavia, Chechnya (the Ermolovsky battalion in the first and the Commandant company in the second), not to mention those who fought as part of the Russian army. But few people know about them. Perhaps the most famous is only Igor Grigorashenko (the kingdom to him be heaven) ...
BUT "lula"can always and easily turn into"your fat and your muslim"... Don't you understand? .. I'll just give you one photo of one person. This is one of the main initiators."final solution to the Jewish question"... But the whole paradox was that by origin it was ... Try to guess three times ...

Hedrich, Reinhard Tristan Eugen Heidrich - SS Obergruppenführer and Police General ...

[atalef]

Quote: Chicot 1

Dear Alexander, you would be easier on the turns ... None of the Cossacks (I do not mean mummers or chain "registered") are not going to use the glory of their ancestors or (even more so) to appropriate someone else's glory

So I’m talking about this, but read the comments - and you will understand that you are mistaken (in this article, in the * Genocide of the Cossacks *

Quote: Chicot 1

And with regards to modern Cossacks, I can briefly remind you of Transnistria, Yugoslavia, Chechnya (the Ermolovsky battalion in the first and the Commandant company in the second), not to mention those who fought as part of the Russian army.

Remarkably, I can also remember at least General Rokhlin, but why - all these cases should be elevated almost to superheroism and require special benefits for this and declare themselves to be almost the saviors of Russia.

Quote: Chicot 1

I'll just give you one photo of one person. This is one of the main initiators of the "final solution to the Jewish question" ... But the whole paradox was that it was in origin ... Try to guess three times ...

If he was a Jew? Nobody knows, there were only rumors about his Jewish origin, there is no confirmation anywhere - there were no such rumors regarding Cossacks, they were Cossacks and were proud of it.
But even if he had something to do with the Jews, for us he was and will remain a traitor to the damned in all generations. Say the same thing about Cossacks colobrationists

[Chicot 1]

Quote: atalef

So I’m talking about this, but read the comments and you will understand that you are mistaken.

I do not want this to sound like bragging, but I am mistaken very rarely ...

Quote: atalef

I can also remember at least General Rokhlin

I have great and genuine respect for the personality of the general and his memory, but in your comment it was not at all about him, but what are the modern Cossacks in your opinion ...

Quote: atalef

there were only rumors of his Jewish origin

As one of Lewis Carroll's characters used to say - "there is no smoke without fire"... Everything else is on the conscience of the archivists ...

Quote: atalef

for us he was and will remain a traitor to the damned in all generations

But apparently not for everyone ... This is to say that several years ago there was a place to be infa about the appearance in Israel of fascist youth organizations ...

Quote: atalef

Say the same thing about Cossacks colobrationists

They got theirs and without my personal curses ... But to this I add one thing - I am interested in the history of my people exactly as it is. Without cuts and embellishments. But you don’t need to pour dirt on it either ...

[KUBANA777]

Quote: atalef

If he was a Jew? Nobody knows, there were only rumors about his Jewish origin, there is no confirmation anywhere - there were no such rumors regarding Cossacks, they were Cossacks and were proud of it. But even if he had something to do with Jews, for us he was will remain a traitor damned in all generations. Say the same thing about Cossacks colobrationists

by the way, most of the General Staff and Hitler himself were in one way or another by blood, "God's chosen people", all the more surprising is the fact of cruel treatment of fellow believers

[atalef]

Quote: KUBANA777

by the way, most of the General Staff and Hitler himself were in one way or another by blood, "God's chosen people", all the more surprising is the fact of cruel treatment of fellow believers

Yes, in general-it is Israel who attacked the USSR

[KUBANA777]

Quote: atalef

Yes, in general-it is Israel who attacked the USSR

If you didn’t know, then it was the USSR that created Israel, in the place where it is now, and all thanks to Stalin, not Yahweh

[Roman 1977]

If he was a Jew? Nobody knows, there were only rumors about his Jewish origin, there is no confirmation anywhere - there were no such rumors regarding Cossacks, they were Cossacks and were proud of it.
But even if he had something to do with the Jews, for us he was and will remain a traitor to the damned in all generations. Say the same thing about Cossacks colobrationists

According to research by the American historian Brian Rigg, at least 150 thousand soldiers, officers and generals with Jewish blood served in the German army alone, who, according to modern Israeli laws, had the right to citizenship. Some of them have received high awards, such as the Knight's Cross of the Iron Crosses I and II degrees and the Knight's Cross Colonel Walter Hollander. Goering's front-line friend Erhard Milch rose to the rank of Field Marshal. On January 2, 1944, at the direction of Hitler, a list of officers who later became famous was compiled with an admixture of Jewish blood, or married to persons with an admixture of Jewish blood. The officers on the list (only officers of the ground forces) could not be used in key posts, and the older ones were supposed to be gradually retired. The list is called "List of 77s".
There are many reasons to doubt the Aryan origin of the Golden Cross cavalier Willy Maksimovich, who successfully rammed an American bomber on his Fokke-Wulf ... Adding Jewish people to these extraordinary people in the armies of the Reich’s allies, it’s hardly surprising that only Jews were captured in Soviet captivity at the end of the war, 10 173 people signed up.
Now, what about the Jews of Palestine: In August 1940, the group “Lohamet Herut Israel” (“Fighters for the Freedom of Israel”) was separated from the terrorist “Irgun Zwei Leumi” (“National Military Organization”), whose leadership decided to make peace with the British during the war. led by Abraham (Yair) Stern. Stern militants successfully shoot British officers and officials, rob banks and try to establish contacts with the Third Reich. Stern’s envoy, Naftali Lubenchik, meets in Beirut with German Foreign Minister Werner Otto von Hentig, and they even publish a joint statement on the upcoming friendship between Israel and the Third Reich.

Tel Aviv War Museum, where the first hall is called the Stern Hall
The British become brutal, kill Stern, imprison many activists of the organization, intercept Nathan Elin-Mohr, an ally of Stern, who had left for another meeting with the Nazis, but the others continue to act. The actual leader of the organization is Yitzhak Yezernitsky, a native of the Belarusian village of Ruzhany, who escaped from prison. The culmination of his terrorist activities is the assassination of British Secretary of State for the Middle East Walter Guinness on 6 of November 1944 of the year and the liquidation of UN representative Volke Bernadotte of 17 of September 1948 of the year. Then Jezernitsky, better known as Yitzhak Shamir, goes into politics and on October 10 of the 1983 of the year he holds the high post of Israeli Prime Minister.
At the end of 1943, the young lawyer born in Brest, Menachem Begin, became the leader of Irgun Zwei Leumi. The organization immediately resumes the terror against the British and does not stop it until they leave Palestine, and Begin, on June 21 of June 1977, was elected Israeli Prime Minister.
In Israel, Begin, Shamir, Stern and their associates are highly esteemed, and in honor of the latter one of the country's villages is named Kokhav Yair (Star of Yair).

[KUBANA777]

Quote: atalef

What Cossacks showed themselves as during the years of the USSR more Russian. Ukrainians, other nationalities?

You are far from reality, Cossacks evicted in the Kuban by Ekaterina from Little Russia (Ukraine) consider themselves Ukrainians, and immediately after the revolution they introduced Ukrainian education, newspapers, etc., before the ban. Cossacks - Donichki Rusich, etc. throughout the territory of the Russian Empire, the Cossack unit stood on the border, because the Cossacks were not only an army but also a lifestyle, they fed themselves, dressed, armed, for certain (democratic) liberties. Therefore, the Cossacks do not have a certain nationality (although the bulk these are Slavs of all stripes) and to talk about what the Cossacks achieved in comparison with the Russians or Ukrainians is an indicator of complete ignorance and the issue being studied

[atalef]

Quote: KUBANA777

. Therefore, the Cossacks do not have a specific nationality (although the bulk are Slavs of all stripes) and talking about what the Cossacks achieved in comparison with the Russians or Ukrainians is an indicator of complete ignorance and the issue under study.

I am referring you to the previous article * The genocide of the Cossacks *. read comments, agree with your comrades on a common point of view. otherwise it’s so opposite. that I find it difficult - do Cossacks exist at all? As each of you interprets their story in their own way.

[atalef]

Quote: KUBANA777

. Therefore, the Cossacks do not have a specific nationality (although the bulk are Slavs of all stripes) and talking about what the Cossacks achieved in comparison with the Russians or Ukrainians is an indicator of complete ignorance and the issue under study.

I am referring you to the previous article * The genocide of the Cossacks *. read comments, agree with your comrades on a common point of view. otherwise it’s so opposite. that I find it difficult - do Cossacks exist at all? As each of you interprets their story in their own way.

[KUBANA777]

Quote: atalef

I am referring you to the previous article * The genocide of the Cossacks *

In that article I read the main thing, there is a person guilty of the troubles of the Cossacks, he is of a certain faith and of a certain nationality ---- SVERDLOV

[atalef]

Quote: KUBANA777

Quote: atalef

I am referring you to the previous article * The genocide of the Cossacks *

In that article I read the main thing, there is a person guilty of the troubles of the Cossacks, he is of a certain faith and of a certain nationality ---- SVERDLOV

Well, who would doubt that Jews were to blame for all the troubles of the Cossacks, but for some reason they took revenge on the Russians (as a rule)

[holler]

and Trotsky! Regarding the article, Khivi did not take part in the hostilities, they should not be confused with the Cossacks Von Panwitz. Both of my grandfathers died in the 42nd, defending the Kuban from the Germans, my father’s elder brother reached Victory in the Red Army, and his middle brother went to Lienz (10 years old). They will blame me, but I’ll say ... I don’t blame the Cossacks, the skating rink of collectivization and collectivization went through them a lot, when the villages that refused to create collective farms starved (Umanskaya station was surrounded by troops, but the Cossacks didn’t back down either those who survived were resettled and deported, children to boarding schools (including my father and brothers), the village was renamed Leningradskaya and settled by nonresident, Cossacks are not there)

[KUBANA777]

Quote: hollger

the village was renamed Leningradskaya and populated by nonresident, Cossacks are not there)

the same thing with Poltava, Vedmidovka and many other villages, God forbid, survive this

http://vojnik.org/ussr/2

[cosmos111]

Indeed, after the punitive operations of the Trotsky and unleashed genocide against the Cossacks in the 20s, millions were killed in the Don, Kuban, Terik, Ural, Siberia.
And the Cossacks had anger at the power of the atheists.
But when the Nazis attacked, many of the former talked out went to fight as volunteers against the Germans.
Many went to war against their people.
It was a continuation of the civil war.
I personally knew such a Cossack, until the end of his life, he hated the power of the Communists. And I did not regret that he fought for the Germans. Although he served 25 years for treason.
It’s impossible to judge, superficially. Everything is much more complicated.

[chunga-changa]

Quote: cosmos111

It’s impossible to judge, superficially. Everything is much more complicated

When the Cossacks throughout Russia persecuted workers for hundreds of years, and in 1905 they drowned the revolution in blood, how do you think ordinary people accumulated anger and hatred towards them? Or laughed and forgot?

[cosmos111]

Quote: chunga-changa

she was driven by workers in Russia for hundreds of years, and in 1905

Read the story, not the short course of the AUCPB.
Such commanders were considered an honor to command the Cossacks as ka Suvorov and Kutuzov.
If Bronstein and his accomplices did not organize the genocide of the Cossacks in the 20s, not one Cossack fought for the Germans in the Great Patriotic War. Recall the 1st World War of 1812 and the Cossacks of General Platov. There were some of the Cossacks-traitors.
Only after the massacre organized by ****** .- Masons, did they go on to betray the Soviet regime.

[atalef]

Quote: cosmos111

Read the story

That's what I’m talking about

Quote: cosmos111

Such commanders were considered an honor to command the Cossacks as ka Suvorov and Kutuzov

What does this have to do with the situation in the 20th and 21st centuries?

Quote: cosmos111

If Bronstein and his accomplices did not arrange the genocide of the Cossacks in the 20s, not one Cossack fought for the Germans in the Second World War

Well, of course, the Jews are to blame for everything, as always. By the way in Yugoslavia, where the Cossacks killed the Serbs - the same in revenge on the Bronstein? And thousands of Russians, Ukrainians, Belarusians and other nationalities that they killed - the same in retaliation to the Jews?

Quote: cosmos111

. Recall the 1st World War of 1812 and the Cossacks of General Platov.

Recall the Second World War in the 20th century and Kushchevka in the 21st century.

Quote: cosmos111

Only after the massacre organized by ****** .- Masons, did they go on to betray the Soviet regime

They went against the USSR. Soviet people and Russians in the first place
And after that . they still require the undivided right to run with whips, whip them with the same citizens of the Russian Federation and yell ANYTHING at the same time

[pawel57]

But no, and read the story. On historical faults, always part of the Cossacks opposed Russia.

[chunga-changa]

Well, since Suvorov considered it an honor, then of course yes. They did not drive the workers, they did not drown the revolution in blood, it apparently drowned itself. Well, if they drove a little bit and quite a bit the people chopped down with sabers in 1905, so the Bolsheviks and Bronstein are to blame, this is their revenge for the future 1920th. Only under the communists 70 years lived like people, and what is characteristic is that the fewer Cossacks and priests the better they lived. But as soon as a native of the Stavropol Territory and an anti-Soviet were crawling into the leadership of the country, now the time has come. And what is characteristic of Cossacks and priests immediately emerged from all the cracks in the sea, but obviously the more these mummers are, the worse life is.

[Serg65]

chunga-changa ... Following your logic, the Ukrainian "Berkut" is also an enemy of the people and a strangler of popular aspirations ??? I don’t understand what the dispute is about? If you are killing your fellow blood brothers in place with enemies, then you are definitely a traitor! You contribute to the victory of the enemy over your homeland, you are a traitor! You throw mud at your homeland, you are a traitor! The rest is all from the evil one.

[chunga-changa]

Quote: Serg65

.Following your logic, the Ukrainian "Berkut" is also an enemy of the people

No, this does not follow from my logic. "Berkut" is an ordinary division of the internal affairs bodies. Berkutovites do not consider themselves a separate people from the rest of the country's population. "There is no extradition from the golden eagle" - they are not shouting, international and domestic policies are not pursued in their national interests, and the line of conduct is not determined at the gathering. And the Cossacks did all this, they decided at the gathering "we go for the tsar" go and do what he tells them, even to cut the workers, even to fight with the French. We decided to "go under the Turks" go and do what the Sultan tells them, even though the Russians are cut, even the Yugoslavs, if they decide to go under Hitler, such is the difference. The Cossacks themselves chose their historical role and destiny, and got what they chose. The Cossacks of that time are like today's Dagestanis and Chechens. The same habits, the same ambition, the same Russian carving, the same "love" from the people. In 50 years, their descendants will also talk about the genocide. Who was there "genocide" arranged for them: Budanov, Gromov, Lebed, these are the future Russian genocides. And they supported Hitler in 43 because of the genocide staged by Ermolov. We see the same songs "evil Russians offended us, but Rafik is not blameworthy" from the Cossacks.

[KUBANA777]

Quote: chunga-changa

"Berkut" is an ordinary division of the internal affairs bodies

of course, ordinary, and the Cossacks in 1905 drowned everyone in your blood (and who they were not Berkut members in the current sense) the "born in the USSR" flag does not allow free thinking and gives people nostalgic for any manifestations of the USSR, and it does not matter that the so-called , the 1905 revolution was "orange" and illegal (from the point of view of that system, but Vyto was taught at school not jurisprudence, but an idealized history and it is difficult to break away from templates,

Quote: chunga-changa

do not shout, do not pursue international and domestic policy in their national interests

wherever you see, what would the Cossacks in tsarist times have swayed their rights.

Quote: chunga-changa

We decided to "go under the Turks"

Cherkasy (and Circassians among Caucasians) - is translated from Greek as a professional warrior, etc. therefore, they were hired, but in Sich, they earned and lived by this, and in Tsarist Russia the Cossack had, throughout the territory, a completely different status, DEFENDER OF SELF-POWER
the rest of your nonsense I leave without comment, it's just

[26rus]

Was it not the Life Guards regiments that drowned Presnya in blood? And a little off topic: what is the difference between a revolution and an armed rebellion? Why 1905 was "drowned in blood", and now calls for "Berkut" to roll the Maidan into asphalt - "restoring legal order"?

[dmb]

Why double. Are the descendants of the soldiers and officers of those regiments demanding land and privileges? But gentlemen-Cossacks (or rather the worst part of them) demand. Moreover, on the very dubious basis that their great-grandfathers once fought together with Platov. Maybe they fought, but what do the current "demanding people" have to do with this? But the fact that one of the current "vatamans" headed the city committee of the CPSU and organized the campaign for Yeltsin's elections in the region is a fact, whether someone likes it or not. He, too, demands a piece of land. No one denies the merits of the volunteers who fought in Yermolov's battalion (although there were also different ones), but why should they have more than other fighters?

[26rus]

You probably did not understand the question. I asked, why are the assessments of LEGAL government departments that put things in order in similar situations so diametrically opposed? I mean the situations "Presnya-Maidan", "Berkut-Cossacks", "Cossacks-regular army." There was no talk about the requirements of the land and privileges.

[atalef]

Quote: 26rus

"," Berkut-Cossacks

By the way, how the Russian Cossacks assess the role of Cossacks (who are almost all on the Maidan side) in Ukraine

[vladek64]

In this interview, from about 6 minutes, he says that they kicked on his head and used his head like a soccer ball.
At the same time, I look at his head and see a couple of bruises under his eyes, and his forehead and crown are even without scratches.
A kick in the berets breaks a leg, and a blow to the head causes a concussion. Well, if adult muzhiks were jumping on their heads in berets, then the victim should lie either in the morgue or in the intensive care unit unconscious with a severe concussion.
And here the comrade is peppy and not even scratched.

[KUBANA777]

Quote: dmb

Are the descendants of the soldiers and officers of those regiments demanding land and privileges for themselves. But gentlemen-Cossacks (or rather the worst part) require.

it’s interesting who demands it, facts, don’t say what privileges you are about, they were shot, starved, taken to Siberia and they are silent in a rag, I, who lives in the Kuban, (interested in this issue) found out about it recently, by accident.

Quote: dmb

Here is the fact that one of the current "vatamans" headed the city committee of the CPSU and organized the campaign for the elections of Yeltsin in the region, it is a fact, whether someone likes it or not.

they choose the chieftain for merits, and in the CPSU there weren’t any bad ones, only the best ones were chosen there

Quote: dmb

He, after all, also demands a zemlyatse.

What zemlyatse, do not say nonsense, all the state land,
and the land of any peasant (and the Cossacks are also peasants) requires that your family feed you and parasites, sitting at computers and growing food in stores.

[jjj]

Friends, did you know that in the state register of the peoples of Russia, Cossacks in modern times are allocated as separate people. They are not officially considered Russian

[Chicot 1]

Quote: jjj

But did you know that in the state register of the peoples of Russia, Cossacks in modern times are distinguished as separate people. They are not officially considered Russian

This situation has existed since the late 1990s ... And you just remembered about it ... Or did you find out for yourself? ..

[KUBANA777]

Quote: jjj

They are not officially considered Russian

not all Slavs are considered Russian - for you the news is that Slavs are Poles, Bulgarians are not Russian. What is the news, the conversation is about Slavs, and not about Russian-Vyatichi, Drevlyans, Wends, Uglichs and Finno-Ugric people, the news - the Cossacks resettled from Little Russia to the Kuban are not Russian ayah, how can it be ....... ............... funny, comrade .............

[equity]

jjj RU February 3, 2014 08:59
Friends, did you know that in the state register of the peoples of Russia, Cossacks in modern times are allocated as separate people. They are not officially considered Russian

Officially not officially, Cossacks are Cossacks and Russians are Russians, different peoples!

[Samurai]

What is interesting is that the German government paid compensation to all those who served as a fascist Germany and pays a hivi pension, which allows them to live well! And our veterans who fought against fascism receive a beggarly pension! Where's the justice?

[pawel57]

Ask the Jews, they will tell you about justice and colochost.

[KUBANA777]

Quote: pawel57

Ask the Jews, they will tell you about justice and colochost

yeah, hundreds of thousands of lives of Cossacks throughout Russia on their conscience, it smells like such a Holocaust, and someone doesn’t ache like them in Europe, they’ve stripped the compensation of poor Germans to the core

[creak]

A small clarification - the 1st division is not KNOR, but KONR - the Committee for the Liberation of the Peoples of Russia.

[Black]

Quote: jjj

They are not officially considered Russian

You know, but to us, by and large, anyway, they consider us a nation or do not consider us. The main thing is that we ourselves consider ourselves Cossacks.
On the article and the topic as a whole. Every nation has bright and heroic pages, there are also dark ones. Every nation has its traitors. The inflated theme "the service of the Cossacks with the enemy" has only one goal - to discredit the Cossack revival. Will not work. Is it really necessary? Collaboration is a shameful episode in the life of any nation, why are we stirring up our own dirty laundry !?

In 57, the Cossack returned to the village after the camps ... He served with the Germans. The village turned its back on him, his father cursed, his relatives refused, they did not take him to any collective farm, and he lived his whole life as a birder on a farm.

[Chicot 1]

Quote: Chen

You know, but to us, by and large, anyway, they consider us a nation or do not consider us. The main thing is that we consider ourselves Cossacks

I absolutely agree with you, Sergey! .. + + +
And as for the idle opinion of a loving public very critical about the Cossacks and Cossacks (including the modern one), I want to remind the old oriental wisdom:
"A group of pack animals carrying a certain cargo from one point to another will continue to move regardless of the volume of sounds made by small and medium-sized canids"...

[Black]

Quote: Chicot 1

"A group of pack animals carrying a certain cargo from one point to another will continue to move regardless of the loudness of sounds emitted by small and medium-sized canines that meet them on the way" ...

Wonderful remake !!!

[equity]

Chicot 1

quote: And as for the idle opinion of an audience that loves to critically speculate about Cossacks and Cossacks

Well, you, too, like to critically speculate about some people of the North Caucasus! Are you special or something, of course, but vice versa ...! You remember, on one article, they directly erupted criticizing this people, they told you that all nations have scumbags that not all people are to blame but individual groups of people! ..

[atalef]

Quote: Chen

The inflated topic "the service of the Cossacks with the enemy" has only one goal - to discredit the Cossack revival

Well no . This topic does not swell. but only the answer (on the VO website) to numerous articles on the Cossack occasion. I understand - the truth is not always pleasant

Quote: Chen

In 57, the Cossack returned to the village after the camps ... He served with the Germans. The village turned its back on him, his father cursed, his relatives refused, they did not take him to any collective farm, and he lived his whole life on a farm

A great example of the true patriots of their country. So you have to behave with traitors

[oleko51081]

Yes, the genocide against the Cossacks was started by Sverdlov. And after the Civil War they killed the Russian people by class, practically in all, for example, doctors, who replaced them, which nation? So for many it was a continuation of the Civil War. Even after the Victory of the returnees to the USSR 300 THE PERSON WAS SIMPLY SHOT IN THE PORT OF ODESSA. And we got Communism from "civilized" Europe.

[rubin6286]

As a child, I heard how my grandfather, who passed from Moscow to Konigsberg, talking about the war, said about the Cossacks: "These cocks, they are all bastards!"
Today, having learned about the murder in the village of Kushchevskaya and other disgraces in the Rostov Region, Stavropol and Krasnodar Territories, I sometimes think about his words.

[Rebus]

Quote: rubin6286

As a child, I heard how my grandfather, who passed from Moscow to Konigsberg, talking about the war, said about the Cossacks: "These cocks, they are all bastards!"
Today, having learned about the murder in the village of Kushchevskaya and other disgraces in the Rostov Region, Stavropol and Krasnodar Territories, I sometimes think about his words.

It’s not necessary to say disgust to all Cossacks, it’s not good ... At least it’s not fair in relation to those who died fighting not only for their village or farm, but also for Moscow, Yaroslavl, Leningrad for their Motherland, and you are their reptiles and call kurkuley.
My grandfather was a Cossack and fought in the 5th Don Guards Cossack Red Banner Cavalry Corps, and I am proud of him. But the freaks who fought on the side of the Germans should not be called Cossacks ...

[atalef]

Quote: Rebus

It’s not necessary to say nasty things to all Cossacks, it’s not good ... At least it’s not fair in relation to those who died fighting not only for their village or farm, but also for Moscow, Yaroslavl, Leningrad for their Motherland

I hope your request is also relevant in your attitude towards the Jews. Do not forget her when you write your comments.

Quote: Rebus

My grandfather was a Cossack and fought in the 5th Don Guards Cossack Red Banner Cavalry Corps, and I am proud of him.

My grandfather fought (one died) and the second, starting the war in 1939, ended it in 1943 with a serious wound at Perekop.

Quote: Rebus

But the freaks who fought on the side of the Germans should not be called Cossacks ...

Who are they? Cossacks are traitors. As there were Russian traitors, Ukrainians - traitors and Jews - traitors
How do you want to whitewash yourself by simply saying that these are not ours, they are not Cossacks, but who are they then?

[Rebus]

Quote: atalef

I hope your request is also relevant in your attitude towards the Jews. Do not forget her when you write your comments.

I never wrote nasty things about all Jews, but there are some very unworthy people among you. But you identify the traitors with all the Cossacks, and why should I not identify the unworthy people with all the Jews?

Quote: atalef

My grandfather fought (one died) and the second, starting the war in 1939, ended it in 1943 with a serious wound at Perekop.

Honor and praise to them, I believe that they are very worthy people.

Quote: atalef

How do you want to whitewash yourself by simply saying that these are not ours, they are not Cossacks, but who are they then?

Myself, in no case, I do not whitewash, I am who I am. And the traitors do not have a nationality, because they betrayed their homeland and their nationality ...

[atalef]

Quote: Rebus

I never wrote nasty things about all Jews

They wrote. I have a good memory . hope now stop

Quote: Rebus

but there are some very unworthy people among you.

Of course. as among any nationality

Quote: Rebus

You identify traitors with all Cossacks

God forbid, among the Cossacks there are a huge number of worthy people, heroes both in work and in battles
I'm just saying. that a GOOD MAN is not a profession. it is a normal state of any worthy citizen and it’s not right to give special privileges for it.

Quote: Rebus

Honor and praise to them, I believe that they are very worthy people

Eternal memory to them, unfortunately the second grandfather died 10 years ago

Quote: Rebus

, and traitors do not have a nationality, as they betrayed both their homeland and their nationality

Traitors have a nationality - do not bring traitors into a separate caste without clan and tribe because exactly then . there is a feeling of exclusivity and infallibility. There were Cossacks traitors and a lot of autumn. in% of the number - just a monstrous amount (in relation to other nationalities) - do not forget about it. when you demand special conditions and benefits for yourself.
Sincerely .
Believe me, I have nothing against the Cossacks, wonderful people are sure. many toilers, the military, I think are wonderful (I didn’t see them, except for a row, Tokmakov - the Kuban Cossack (as he called himself) - didn’t show himself in anything), which in general does not make him a bad person
Deeds need to seek recognition and respect, and not memories of the year 1812, clinging to the tzatzak. epaulette, pacing with legs and screams ANYWHERE.
Good luck

[Rebus]

Quote: atalef

do not forget about it. when you demand special conditions and benefits for yourself.

Why do I need benefits? But the traitor and traitor, nevertheless, does not have a nationality, it’s just that I can’t even convince me of this.

[atalef]

Quote: Rebus

Why do I need benefits?

You , it’s not necessary and it’s not about you. As I understand it, by labor you get your daily bread (THAT YOU CAN’T LEAVE YOUR CHICKEN ANYTHING) - and that’s right and respect you (nothing that’s on you)
And traitors have a nationality. And then just too chur. Once - and he seems to be nobody's.

[Black]

Quote: atalef

There were Cossacks traitors and a lot of autumn. in% of the number - just a monstrous amount (in relation to other nationalities) - do not forget about it ....

I disagree with you. Cossacks — in general — called traitors — are just as ridiculous as the Jews to blame for all the ills of the universe.
It so happened that it was the Cossacks who suffered the greatest losses in the civil war, in some places they were subjected to real genocide, many remained overboard, which together pushed the Cossacks into the camp of enemies of the Soviet regime. This does not justify, it explains a lot.
In addition, among the poor riding Cossacks there were very few traitors.
I will undertake to prepare exact figures in the near future. I assure you, the Cossacks (Verkhovtsy) who served with the Germans were extremely few.

[26rus]

Quote: rubin6286

other outrages in the Rostov region, Stavropol and Krasnodar Territory

What kind of disgraces that are being repaired in these territories are we talking about?

[Snoop]

We had a war veteran, now he died, among other awards he was twice awarded the Order of Glory of the III and II degrees, he fought in the intelligence service. Also from the war took a negative about the Cossacks. The Germans say it’s easier, they will shoot or hang the reconnaissance group, and the Cossacks with a healthy imagination. They recaptured the village, found the corpses of comrades, local to them - here the Cossacks hung out, and they had fun. They removed live skin and poured salt and threw it away. Is that how they avenged Soviet power? What did the Komsomol guys ordinary Ivanov, Kholopenko, Makhatyrov (for example) do to them? Revenge, baby talk. The most human bottom went to serve the Germans, and no matter what nationality.

[KUBANA777]

Quote: Snoop

What did the Komsomol guys ordinary Ivanov, Kholopenko, Makhatyrov (for example) do to them? Revenge, baby talk. The most human bottom went to serve the Germans, and no matter what nationality.

there are plenty of freaks everywhere, look at how grandfathers mocked at their colleagues, they filmed this and put it on the Internet, and what did the young men, conscripts to Chechens, that they cut their heads, and yay ... they put stuffed into their mouths, and the officers mocked the Poles over our prisoners, they cut the soldier’s stomach and stuffed the cat and made bets who died sooner, it’s good that most of these and these Polish officers were tied up, and in KATYN there were those officers involved in the bullying and shooting of our prisoners (87 of us were killed, and Tukh took them there Evsky for reprisal, for which he received). It has already been proved that not our Poles were filled up in Katyn (with the beginning of the war, the prisoners became ownerless, the Germans took advantage), and Europe removed the claims from us, but everyone who was there deserved what was with them happened, they were specially collected there all over Poland.
So everywhere there are enough savages among the Makhnovists and Bendera and Caucasians, etc.

[deman73]

they are ordinary traitors to their people of their homeland

[dmitry21]

hard to read - I have a father-in-law Cossack, not one of these, of course.
thanks for the article!

[Standard Oil]

If a person took and turned his weapon against his compatriots, then there is no excuse for him, all these excuses like "I am not against the Russians, I am against the Soviet regime" were invented in the corresponding department of the Abwehr and have nothing to do with patriotism. Therefore, there is no excuse for traitors. I don’t see, and I don’t understand why the traitors to the Motherland were not shot. It’s interesting how the atrocities in Yugoslavia are combined with “patriotism”?

[Aydin]

When you look at the mummers of the Cossacks, they often wear officer epaulets, is this not illegal? Or are they mistaken for pageants?

[KUBANA777]

Quote: Aydin

When you look at the mummers of the Cossacks, they often wear officer epaulets, is this not illegal? Or are they mistaken for pageants?

epaulettes, asterisks, only their ranks, some .... centurions, non-commissioners, or those ranks that the officers had in the army, after all, there are a lot of former military men, and the badge and medal in any store are mostly anniversary or military if the officer is a former military

[26rus]

By the way, the Serbs did not consider them Russians, they called them "Circassians". Which, of course, does not diminish their deeds in the least.

Quote: atalef

wash yourself and admit your mass betrayal in the Second World War,,

See the list of Cossack units given in the article, the overwhelming number of them are guards. If you follow your logic, the Russians (ROA) and Ukrainians (UPA), Tatars and other peoples, whose formations were in the Wehrmacht, were "massive" traitors ?

[atalef]

Quote: 26rus

See the list of Cossack units given in the article, the overwhelming number of them are guards. If you follow your logic, the Russians (ROA) and Ukrainians (UPA), Tatars and other peoples, whose formations were in the Wehrmacht, were also "massive" traitors

There were Russians the same in general almost all nationalities - for some reason, only Cossacks shout about their exclusivity and require a special place for themselves * RESCUE RUSSIA *, I just express my opinion, remember the history of gentlemen Cossacks and think again --- DO YOU HAVE YOU'RE AT THIS RIGHT - to demand a special role? Why are you better than others?
You do not even consider yourself a Russian, as far as I know. So behave appropriately to the national minority in the Russian Federation

[26rus]

1. Do you catch the difference between nationality and estate? 2. How about mass betrayal?

[atalef]

Quote: 26rus

Do you catch the difference between nationality and estate? 2. How about mass betrayal

I get it. and you probably don’t
A Cossack is not an estate. You generally understand the meaning of this word. A person could pass (as he deserved) from the estate to the estate, as well as lose the estate - continue to continue. Or do you understand the obscurity of your post?

[26rus]

Exactly, they could join the Cossacks (and not only Russians), they could be excluded from the Cossacks, even whole villages. And answer, finally, the second question.

[atalef]

Quote: 26rus

Exactly, they could join the Cossacks (and not only Russians), they could be excluded from the Cossacks, even whole villages. And answer, finally, the second question

Can I have an example? And what did they become? What nationality did they become? Or were Russian Cossacks recorded?

[26rus]

Read more closely the history of the Cossacks, or at least "Taras Bulba". The Cossacks were joined by fugitive serfs, and mountaineers, and nomads-steppe. Yakuts served in the Siberian Army. I personally know a man from a Cossack family, whose ancestor was a French soldier at Napoleon's. There are many examples.

[atalef]

Quote: 26rus

Read more closely the history of the Cossacks, or at least "Taras Bulba". The Cossacks were joined by fugitive serfs, and mountaineers, and nomads-steppe. Yakuts served in the Siberian Army. I personally know a man from a Cossack family, whose ancestor was a French soldier at Napoleon's. There are many examples.

I refer you again to the previous article. * The genocide of the Cossacks *. where your comrades claimed the exact opposite (including the fact that there were no former serfs among the Cossacks). you re-read the previous article and comments. Agree somehow on a common position on this issue (otherwise yours is fundamentally different from the one generally declared at the VO forum). and then continue

[atalef]

Quote: 26rus

Read more closely the history of the Cossacks, or at least "Taras Bulba". The Cossacks were joined by fugitive serfs, and mountaineers, and nomads-steppe. Yakuts served in the Siberian Army. I personally know a man from a Cossack family, whose ancestor was a French soldier at Napoleon's. There are many examples.

I refer you again to the previous article. * The genocide of the Cossacks *. where your comrades claimed the exact opposite (including the fact that there were no former serfs among the Cossacks). you re-read the previous article and comments. Agree somehow on a common position on this issue (otherwise yours is fundamentally different from the one generally declared at the VO forum). and then continue

[26rus]

Quote: atalef

there were no former serfs among the Cossacks

Well, explain then, where did the Cossacks come from? Came from the Himalayas, flew Mars, appeared by themselves out of nowhere ..? Where did the expression come from: "There is no issue from Don"? Enlighten. And once again, finally answer the question about "mass" betrayal, what is this opus based on?

[atalef]

Quote: 26rus

Exactly, they could join the Cossacks (and not only Russians), they could be excluded from the Cossacks, even whole villages.

Quote: 26rus

I personally know a man from a Cossack family, whose ancestor was a French soldier from Napoleon.

Quote: Rebus

Raznochintsy;
Philistinism;
Cossacks;

Quote: Chen

. We do not relate to the Russians. This infuriates Russians (they have the right, because we have a lot of Russian blood - because of the attributed Cossacks)

In general, I somehow got lost in that variety of opinions of Cossacks about Cossacks
Help me understand the gentlemen of the Cossacks, who are you?

If you can join the Cossacks (regardless of nationality, 0 - it means this is simply an estate and anyone - anyone who meets the Cossack requirements - can become a Cossack, but then the question - a person who has left this estate - ceases to be a Cossack? How then is the Cossacks inherited, which is generally characteristic only of nationality - but you say that everyone can become a Cossack, while it’s Ukrainian-Cossack, is Belarus a Cossack, Lithuanian-Cossack? Or, when he becomes a Cossack, he becomes just a Cossack - losing the primordial nation tionality? then it is not class.
If this is a nationality, then like an Armenian-Russian cannot automatically become a machine gun, they cannot accept someone into the Cossacks if we are talking about nationality.
So who is the Cossack? Illichto? who-nationality-then no offense you nat. minority. if it's just a way of life - then why write in passports and be inherited.
Explain how to sit on two chairs

[Rebus]

Quote: atalef

Cossack - not an estate

You are wrong, the Cossacks were also the estate and subethnos.

In Russia, from the 2nd half of the XNUMXth century, the estate division into:
The nobility, divided into hereditary and personal;
Clergy;
Estate of honorary citizens;
Merchants;
Raznochintsy;
Philistinism;
Cossacks;
The peasantry, this estate was divided into personally free peasants and black-eared peasants, as well as dependent and serfs dependent on the feudal lords.
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Сословие

... The Cossacks gradually turned from a subethnos into a military service class that retained its subethnic cultural and other characteristics. ...
http://historylib.org/historybooks/E-I-Dulimov--V-K-TSechoev_Slavyane-sredneveko
vogo-dona / 17

[atalef]

Quote: Rebus

You are wrong, the Cossacks were also an estate and subethnos. In Russia, from the 2nd half of the XNUMXth century, the estate division was established: Nobility, divided into hereditary and personal; Clergy; Honor of esteemed citizens; Merchants; Raznochintsy; Bourgeoisie; Cossacks; Peasantry , this estate was divided into personally free classmates

It’s strange. somehow I didn’t see a person’s desire to write in nationality - the Peasant. A tradesman or a commoner.
Nevertheless, the nationality - the Cossack - is indicated in the register of nationalities, explain this discrepancy
Or, if you claim that this class. then any non-resident can become a Cossack - what should he do for this?

[Rebus]

Quote: atalef

It’s strange. somehow I didn’t see a person’s desire to write in nationality - the Peasant. A tradesman or a commoner.

You are always inattentive. I wrote that the Cossacks were both a subethnos and an estate at the same time (and by the way I didn’t write anywhere that bourgeoisie and other nobles, peasants should be considered separate subethnosomes). Read the comments carefully and you will be enlightened.

[vlad.svargin]

atalef (3)
Your request is also relevant in your attitude towards the Jews. Do not forget her when you write your comments.

I do not want to say bad things about Jews. Different Jews are just like Cossacks. But your statements throughout the forum cause a negative connotation to the Cossacks (eternal and good memory of the dead volunteer Cossacks in Transnistria not so long ago) I will give some data for the period of the Second World War

The Jews have developed the basic tactics of war - always yelling that the Jews are being oppressed. And it always turns out that JEWS ALWAYS KILL JEWS, and Jews always hang the blame on innocent peoples. Hitler's Jewish soldiers 150 thousand soldiers and officers of the Wehrmacht, Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine could repatriate to Israel according to the Law of Return, these are fifteen full-blooded rifle divisions of the Wehrmacht, but you can, for example, be counted as 10 Jewish rifle divisions in the Wehrmacht, plus 5 Jewish divisions in the Luftwaffe, plus 5 Jewish Panzerwaffe divisions, plus a Jewish battleship, a pair of Jewish destroyers and two dozen Jewish Kriegsmarine submarines - a whole Jewish armada inside the armed forces of the Nazis. ("Jews in the SS and Hitler's Wehrmacht." Stanislav Malyshev)

[atalef]

Quote: vlad.svargin

and as 10 Jewish infantry divisions in the Wehrmacht, plus 5 Jewish divisions in the Luftwaffe, plus 5 Jewish Panzerwaffe divisions, plus a Jewish battleship, a couple of Jewish destroyers and two dozen Jewish Kriegsmarine submarines - a whole Jewish armada inside the armed forces of the Nazis. ("Jews in the SS and Hitler's Wehrmacht ". Stanislav Malyshev)

Tales - please the names of the units and the names of the commanders.
you did not understand the main message. I am not against the Cossacks. if not against any nationality living in the territory of the Russian Federation (and of which I am a citizen), I am against Cossack shouts about my special role in * RESCUE RUSSIA * .- and the rest is not. problems. I just do not want . once again arrived in St. Petersburg. to see how these mummers at the stations roam and wave. The police are there - let them work.
Incidentally, the statement that the Cossacks do not have a nationality somehow does not particularly mate with many of the comments of your friends (comrades) Kozakov.
You argue with each other and somehow come to the same opinion - the Cossack is ethnic or something. And then we will continue

[Same lech]

Tales - please the names of the units and the names of the commanders.

[Black]

Quote: atalef

- for some reason, only Cossacks shout about their exclusivity and require a special place for themselves * RESCUE RUSSIA *, I just express my opinion, remember the history of gentlemen Cossacks and think again --- DO YOU HAVE THIS RIGHT to demand a special role? Why are you better than others?
You do not even consider yourself a Russian, as far as I know. So behave appropriately to the national minority in the Russian Federation hi

Smiled !!!!
1. You have beguiled us with you. Cossacks never anywhere demanded to consider them somehow exceptional ...
The first time I hear from you ... We do not pretend to be your "exclusive".
2. And in "saving Russia" we are among others.
3. We remember and carefully preserve history. We have something to be proud of.
4. We do not attribute ourselves to Russians. It infuriates Russians (they have the right, because we have a lot of Russian blood - because of the attributed Cossacks) ... I didn’t think that you were somehow worried about it either.
5. Well, ON THE CASES ONCE, YOU MANAGED TO SCROLL YOUR FIRST !!! No offense ... funny, by golly !!!

[KUBANA777]

Quote: 26rus

By the way, the Serbs did not consider them Russians, they called them "Circassians". Which, of course, does not diminish their deeds in the least.

Serbs, as the real Slavs knew historical reality, the Cossacks were Cherkasy, i.e. Greek professional warrior, hence the region of Cherkasy, the capital is Cherkasy, etc.

Quote: 26rus

If you follow your logic, were the Russians (ROA) and Ukrainians (UPA), Tatars and other peoples whose formations were in the Wehrmacht were "mass" traitors?

if you follow the logic of all those who are friends with the Germans, a bad person and fate and God has already punished them.

[coserg 2012]

I wonder how they didn’t slap him when he announced the transition to the Germans before the ranks. This was precisely the moment of truth. Here is a comparison of the victory parade and those calf’s with extinct looks (probably offended to the tip of the tail) of grandfathers. I’m sure that in the ranks on Red Square there are no less victims from the Soviet regime, but they have a life in their eyes. As much as a mother in childhood didn’t beat, take what she is, no other is given.

[Black]

Quote: coserg 2012

I wonder how he was not spanked when he announced before the formation of the transition to the Germans

They didn’t plop for one simple reason - THERE WASN'T !!! Legends invented by a traitor. (however, in this case it’s not a legend, but a black invention, Brech!)

[smersh70]

Heavi-not fought. They helped in auxiliary work, were voluntary assistants, they did not have weapons.

[Roman 1977]

It’s time to remember Kaminsky, although, strictly speaking, he went to the Vlasovites and the SS Cossacks. has no relation. There was such an engineer in the USSR before the war, Bronislav Kaminsky. During the Great Terror, he was attracted, but he managed to convince the investigators that he was an honest Soviet specialist and patriot. They released. And during the war, this honest Soviet engineer quickly organized a detachment of policemen, which in the fall of 1942 grew into a brigade of the so-called. "Russian Liberation People's Army" (RONA), for the defense of the Lokotsky Special District from partisans and detachments formed by the NKVD, making 40 to 60 attacks per month. The RONA units formed by Kaminsky took an active part in punitive actions against partisans and civilians. In particular, the RONA brigade took part in Operation Gypsy Baron, when the German command decided to clear its rear areas of partisans and secure communications on the eve of the Battle of Kursk. In total, on the territory of the Bryansk and Vitebsk regions in 1941-1943, the RONA brigade destroyed more than 10 thousand Soviet citizens, burned 203 people alive, completely burned 24 villages and 7300 collective farm yards, destroyed 767 public and cultural institutions. The total loss amounted to over 900 million rubles.

Bronislaw Kaminsky (in a cap) with German police

policeman from the Kaminsky brigade
It was in the Kaminsky brigade that the famous "Tonka the machine-gunner" - Antonina Makarova, who shot 1500 people with a machine gun, carried out executions, was subsequently arrested and shot - the only case of the death penalty for a woman in the USSR after the end of the Great Patriotic War.

[Roman 1977]

In view of the large-scale offensive of the Red Army in the summer of 1943, the armed formations of the Lokot district under the command of Bronislaw Kaminsky, family members of military personnel, all who did not want to remain on Soviet territory (about 30 thousand people, of which about 6 thousand were military personnel), in August 1943 years left with the German army in the town of Lepel, Vitebsk region, where they soon took part in a number of punitive anti-partisan operations: Regenschauer, Frühlingsfest (the destruction of 7 011 partisans was announced) and Kormoran (announced the destruction of 7 697) as part of the SS Gottberg battle group (German: SS-Kampfgruppe von Gottberg). In March, the 1944 unit was renamed the “Kaminsky People’s Brigade” (German: Volksheer-Brigade Kaminski), and in July 1944 it joined the SS ranks under the name of the SS RONA assault brigade (German: Waffen-Sturmbrigade der SS RONA).

Russian SS Kaminsky
On August 1 of 1944, an order was issued to form the 29 Grenadier Division of the SS RONA (Russian No. 1) (German 29. Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS RONA (russische Nr.1)), while Kaminsky received the rank of SS General from the Germans , suppressed the Warsaw Uprising with his gang, where he promoted such looting, such a massacre that the Germans themselves finished off his splendor for it, dumping everything on the partisans. What you need to be a bastard and executioner, so that the Germans, for the sake of a clean image, quietly removed a person in the rank of SS general, you can guess.

SS Kaminsky in Warsaw
After the atrocities of the RONA consolidated regiment under the command of the SS Sturmbanführer Ivan Frolov in the suppression of the Warsaw Uprising of the 1944 of the year, the order of the SS Obergruppenführer Erich von dem Bach-Celewski was ordered about the execution of the commander of the Kaminsky brigade, the chief of staff of Shavykin, the division doctor, and also the driver. Kaminsky was recalled to Litzmanstadt (Lodz), where Bach’s headquarters were located, arrested and sentenced to death by a military tribunal.

Kaminsky in the form of a brigadenfuhrer SS with an iron cross
It was announced that the Polish partisans did this, having set up an ambush, in confirmation of which his car riddled with bullets and overturned in a ditch was demonstrated.
The order was executed by the SS Sonderkommando in the Litzmanstadt (Lodz) ghetto under the command of Hans Botman. During the Nuremberg trials, von dem Bach confirmed the execution of Kaminsky in his testimony, stating that Kaminsky was shot for looting under wartime laws.
Heinz Guderian, in his memoirs, argued that the fate of Kaminsky and his brigade was decided after his, Guderian, report to Hitler on the state of affairs in the Kaminsky brigade. Hitler, after some resistance, accepted his offer to withdraw the RONA from the Eastern Front, after which "von dem Bach made sure that Kaminsky was shot: he got rid of an unwanted witness." And after all, someone released him before the war! Hands to that investigator to wrestle posthumously ...

[Bigriver]

I have a question for the author.
In what Cossack circles "lives a beautiful story about daddy Panvitsa"?

[Roman 1977]

There are similar ...
Here is such a monument to the "Leaders of the White Movement and Cossack Atamans" stood in Moscow near the Church of All Saints from 1998 to May 8, 2008.

it really looks like this now ...

[atalef]

Quote: Novel 1977

There are similar ...
Here is such a monument to the "Leaders of the White Movement and Cossack Atamans" stood in Moscow near the Church of All Saints from 1998 to May 8, 2008.

it really looks like this now ...

In general, no normal warrior will erect a monument for participating in the Civil War.
Take the example of Rokhlin, who refused the title of Hero of Russia, saying that he has no moral right to receive awards for civil wars.

[smersh70]

Quote: Novel 1977

it really looks like this now ...

and still want to evict Crimean Tatars

[Roman 1977]

Vurgun, I personally never said this, especially since besides the freaks from the "noise" battalions, there were other Crimean Tatars, for example, twice hero of the Soviet Union Amet-Khan-Sultan, who conducted 603 sorties, personally shot down 150 in 33 air battles and in a group of 19 enemy aircraft.

In any nation there are scum and there are worthy people ...
Among the Azerbaijanis were also the hero of the Soviet Union, Mehti Ganif oglu Huseyn-zade, who escaped from captivity and organized a partisan detachment in Yugoslavia, which terrified the fascists.

And those who went to the Azerbaijan Legion, who fought with the partisans and suppressed the Warsaw Uprising.

The Legion consisted of four regiments and 35 battalions, as well as other units. The total number of legionnaires is 70 thousand people (25000 - in combat, 8000 - in the auxiliary units of the Azerbaijan Legion, the rest - in various parts of the Wehrmacht, including the Turkestan Legion, and 2000 people in the SS troops). Until 22 July 1942 this Azerbaijanis served as part of the Caucasian-Muslim Legion (German Kaukasisch-Mohammedanische Legion).

804 Azerbaijani mountain-ranger battalion "Aslan".
I'll tell you another episode. I myself am Nizhny Novgorod and am a fellow countryman of another creature who went to the service of the Nazis - Vlasov, who was born in the village of Lomakino, Sergach district, Nizhny Novgorod province. So, one of his relatives decided to open his museum in the village of Lomakino, in the surviving house of Vlasov's parents. At one fine moment, the guys "Afghans" and "Chechens" came to her and explained what would happen to this museum and how beautifully it would burn in the night if it suddenly opened. And the idea faded away somehow by itself ...

[smersh70]

Quote: Novel 1977

and suppressing the Warsaw Uprising.

I was not greeted by a Bulgarian in the 1st year (well, of course, she immediately said that I was a Turk and destroyed them), but then she also rejected the hand of a Slovak. When I asked her, well, it’s clear with a Bulgarian, Turks seem to be everywhere to her, and what do you mean. She said that they had a partisan region in their province and it was called 3 oaks. There was just a partisan airport there. So in 1944 the SS men couldn’t destroy this region, but the Turkestan legion succeeded. I later found a book of one partisan, just about that, it turned out to be true.

[Valentine77 64]

The tale of the persecution of Cossacks is more a myth, hyped by liberals in the last years of the existence of the USSR, and also subsequently.
My wife’s grandfather was a Terek Cossack, and did not say anything bad about the Soviet regime, nor did he try to go over to the side of the invaders. On the contrary, he was an active participant in the partisan movement in the BSSR (commander of a sabotage detachment named after A. Nevsky, if I am not mistaken).

[KUBANA777]

Quote: Valentine77 64

The tale of the persecution of Cossacks is more a myth, hyped by liberals in the last years of the existence of the USSR, and also subsequently

You really read the previous article about the genocide of the Cossacks, preferably with comments. This grandfather was not yet born, or was small when these events occurred, I mean 1917-1392. therefore this is not an argument

[Valentine77 64]

Perhaps you are right. I did not say specifically (more myth)

[Bigriver]

Quote: atalef

... There were Cossacks traitors and autumn a lot. in% of the number - just a monstrous amount (in relation to other nationalities)

It is very interesting - on the basis of what order of numbers did you draw such a conclusion?

[tundra]

I don’t understand what kind of provocation in the discussion for the Cossacks. Traitors condemned how many of them there were statistics. My question has long been closed. And the followers of the rain continue, the fool understands that the words of the Cossacks are flayers, the traitors are the course of the rain against the RUSSIAN, so God forbid they do not raise their heads. I don’t know the statistics, but I’m sure that there are a number of traitors, among them a meager compared to those who shed blood for the Motherland. And those who do not consider themselves rain-liberal, think before writing any crap. Do not give the liberals joy, they are after all achieving this.

[atalef]

Quote: tundra

I don’t understand what kind of provocation in the discussion for the Cossacks

Provocations ? History cannot be a provocation

Quote: tundra

My question has long been closed

By whom ? Cossacks? As you see no

Quote: tundra

And the followers of the rain continue, the fool understands that the words of the Cossacks are flayers, traitors are the course of the rain against RUSSIAN

Cossacks are not Russian - at least according to their claims

Quote: tundra

I don’t know the statistics, but I’m sure that the number of traitors, among them a meager compared to those who shed blood for the Motherland

Do not be sure. without checking

Quote: tundra

And those who do not consider themselves rain-liberal, think before writing any crap. Do not give the liberals joy, they are after all achieving this.

??????????????????????

[KUBANA777]

Quote: atalef

Provocations ? History cannot be a provocation

depending on which of your interpretations you call history

Quote: atalef

By whom ? Cossacks? As you see no

Well, yes, you always need to open such questions, taking the arrows away from you, I was very tolerant with you (how much in vain), but if you don’t calm down, and by the way read the previous article about the genocide of the Cossacks, then perhaps the main thing you missed in it, Sverdlov was (forgive the administrators) a Jew and it was he who, in violation of all the rules for the emergence of such decrees, issued a decree that caused so much grief to the Cossacks of Russia, and at that time destroyed them as a people (now this is, so, echoes of the Cossacks), and I will also tell you that in the surplus appropriation that doomed people to hunger, there was always one man in a leather jacket in each detachment, the "chosen of God" who made sure that none of the local Red Army and party members flinched and, God forbid, left something for the families of the robbed villagers to feed.

Quote: atalef

Cossacks are not Russian - at least according to their claims

genetically Cossacks of Ukraine Kuban and Don, Slavs,

[atalef]

Quote: KUBANA777

depending on which of your interpretations you call history

Let's start with the photos.

Quote: KUBANA777

about the main thing you missed it, Sverdlov was (sorry administrators) a Jew

no need to apologize for the word Jew, it is no different from the word Cossack, Russian, Chechen or Tatar. By the way, Sverdlov, with the entire communist gang, Trotsky, Lenin and Stalin - with great pleasure I would put to the wall

Quote: KUBANA777

and I will also tell you that in the surplus appropriation system that doomed people to starvation, there was always one man in a leather jacket in each detachment, the "God's chosen one" who made sure that none of the local Red Army and party members flinched

as I understand it, the other party members (of other nationalities) not only did not tremble, but also did not slam this bbl. - why. ? Cockroach. cockroach. cockroach? It was easier for the people to leave for starvation. than one commissar to roll his neck? Do not tell tales with the least pleasure and a hot beating heart - they performed the tasks of the party (with exactly the same zeal. As in the Second World War - the tasks of the Wehrmacht and the SS)

Quote: KUBANA777

genetically Cossacks of Ukraine Kuban and Don, Slavs,

Genetically. Poles. Serbs and even Croats are Slavs. but they are not Russian. So, like Serbs or Croats with Poles, they do not yell about their special role in Russia. so you are a Cossack citizen (who does not consider himself Russian. But as a Slav 0 sit in your Cossack autonomous okrug and on the rights of national minorities - get your quota for joining universities, and do not wave openly and do not yell about the special role of Russian savior.
Or do not distinguish yourself as a separate nationality - be like most Russians --- Russians.

[KUBANA777]

Quote: atalef

Let's start with the photos.

well start who gets in the way

Quote: atalef

no need to apologize for the word jew

I apologized to the admins, there are the rules of the site, I can offend anyone, but here really what to call his nationality. And to their wall, maybe because it’s not quite theirs, because if we take the same Khazars for 400 years they were both Tengrians, they were Christians, Jews were, and Muslims were those who were stronger and believed

Quote: atalef

It was easier for the people to leave for starvation. than one commissar to roll his neck

and turned off, but the next one came and shot the floor of the village, and still got his way, and from the other village the younger ones managed to escape (and they shot the old people), walked through the mountains, went abroad, and there they were collected corps and they lived and dreamed of returning and all the Communists and ... these in leathers at a expense

Quote: atalef

Genetically. Poles. Serbs and even Croats are Slavs. but they are not Russian

I know this, I’ll say more, Poles are more Slavs than Ukrainians and even more than Russians in percentage terms by genotype the whole problem is religion (by the way, in Poland, I was surprised that pagan holidays are celebrated at the state level, for example, Ivan Kupala, etc.) e. with all the attributes bonfires, wreaths ...... that means Catholics are more democratic., And we have bonfires to the bonfire (figuratively). By the way, the Balkans cannot speak of a special role, because the Russians, I emphasize the Russians the Slavic brothers are constantly being pulled out of whatever ass, then the Turks in the Balkans then the Poles in Little Russia and RUSSIAN as an elder brother will pick up, shake off, give the offender a pill, and you will look at the youngest again somewhere, and so for centuries.

Quote: atalef

sit in your Cossack Autonomous Region and on the rights of nat. minorities

You will not believe, even the Jews we have, an autonomous region, but not a single Cossack, Cossacks are now accepted even to be considered by the people, and there is no people, there is no district or region. In the Kuban they are trying to revive the Cossacks. But I think it is useless, because. the Bolsheviks tried very hard to mix the population of the Kuban and the population of the country, and now in the Kuban Rusichs from the Urals, and in Siberia the Kuban Cossacks, and there and there who survived.
therefore, the universities themselves, and the quota works when I entered, then three Kalmyks entered the quota.

Quote: atalef

Or do not distinguish yourself as a separate nationality - be like most Russians --- Russians

And then I’m Russian - my grandfathers were sent here in 33 from the Voronezh region, the Donchaks we were in the Kuban, then they mixed me up cool, well, at least we were alive, my grandfather, a pregnant wife and daughter, my aunt, my father was born here, and there in Voronezh but there was a meat grinder.

[tundra]

Provocations ? History can not be a provocation () Turn on your logic and ..... Jews in the ass to hell with the dog. 1000 COMPLETELY ENOUGH, for the loss of rights to the promised land, plus the genocide of the Arabs is a crime against humanity. So I’m just talking about the fact that residents with a flag like you everywhere are dirty, everything is numb

[tundra]

Do not be sure. without checking () Name number of divisions and corps of Cossack look and approximately multiply. What kind of people are you? flows in your blood and spit in them all.

[KUBANA777]

Quote: tundra

What kind of people are you? flows in your blood and spit in them all

And this is his revenge on the same Cossacks, deprived of their next homeland, KhAZARII, headed by Svyatoslav. And they are taking revenge on the Cossacks for this, and as Svyatoslav drove them across Europe, they took revenge on them both in history and in life and will not rest for a long time

[slon53]

Traitors have always been, but they never could overshadow the true heroes. Traitors are a disgrace and no forgiveness, and heroes eternal glory.

[Witch]

Author Respect.
It’s a pity I forgot in the list of Cossack units I forgot to mention the legendary 9th Plastun Rifle Krasnodar Red Banner, the orders of Kutuzov and Red Star, the volunteer division named after the Supreme Council of the Georgian SSR ...

[26rus]

The cavalry corps of General L. Dovator, who fought near Moscow, is also not mentioned.

[pawel57]

Listen, not the first year this topic has been absorbed by the Cossacks and on Rostov television and central media. Let's raise the troubled times and the role of the Cossacks in it. The Slavs and Cossacks face new challenges and instead of joining efforts, hysteria about the red genocide of the Cossacks, the betrayal of part of the Cossack people in the Second World War and all kinds of discussions are constantly being pumped up. Indirectly, genocide is presented as the acts of the Russians and the Cossacks are almost certain of this. Even taking into account the fact that the Cossacks proclaimed themselves to be a people and do not identify themselves with Russians all their life and history (Vodolatsky in Ossetia agreed that the Cossacks are descendants of the ancient Alan and, therefore, relatives of Ossetians), we all have one common destiny. We speak the same language, mixed marriages, one historical destiny, one church, similarly think, customs are similar and we sing similar songs, laugh at the same jokes and cry for the same things. We are tightly bound by one fate, and with the disappearance of some, with a greater degree of probability others will disappear. Stop barking, it's time to unite and confront together the historical challenges of our peoples. And then, how Indians, who have not united against the invaders, will be killed with our own hands. The Cossack choir and Russian classical ballet will remain for fun. To praise chatting and discussing all sorts of semi-provocative articles.

[nerd.su]

Quote: pawel57

we all have one common destiny. We speak the same language, mixed marriages, one historical destiny, one church, similarly think, customs are similar and we sing similar songs, laugh at the same jokes and cry for the same things.

Because we are one people - Russians. It is a pity that there are those to whom this is not enough. And to give themselves significance, they either consider themselves Aryans, or Cossacks, but not Russian ...

[KUBANA777]

Quote: bot.su

It is a pity that there are those to whom this is not enough. And to give themselves significance, they either consider themselves Aryans, or Cossacks, but not Russian ...

google, read books ....... the arias are the ancestors of the Russians, as well as the Cimmerians, Scythians, etc. all who for thousands of years in this territory added markers to the Russian R1a1 genotype, this is not significance, but literacy plus science is genetics, everything has already been put in their places, read more

[Black]

Quote: pawel57

Praise chatting

Brother!!!! Well, who will disconnect us !!! ??? yes the navel will be untied, for the whole is inseparable !!!
They talked, no more.

[tundra]

Coment set a plus. But Nevo agrees with everything. Among the Cossacks, too, there are .... near. Always Always LAST 400 years they were RUSSIAN. Another territorial issue, I live in the south, erupts another time, in your place in RUSSIA, this is purely geographic and not political. All the same, the Caucasus, like the Urals and Siberia, is not RUSSIA geographically. Well, this does not mean at all that we are not one country, on the contrary, we must be proud of our ancestors. Who unobtrusively managed to make all this one whole And they hammer and hammer us, type Cossacks. It’s okay to deal with the Cossacks, then the liberals, they will begin (for example) to deal with the Kabardinians and so on until everyone falls under them. And they don’t start to fuck in the ass and sell the children to the panel. Then prosperity will come according to their scenario. So gentlemen do not need illusions to feed. In the 17th year, too, they acted pharisotically, chatted and pissed off. Well found, the progamist is the state official (STALIN), IN THE 91st AGAIN DODISE .... SHE. Damn, I’ll probably not live, well, grandchildren.

[tundra]

I don’t agree on everything correctly; CORRECTLY T

[Double major]

The list at the end of the article is not complete. My grandfather fell under the Ukrainian village of Osadche in March 1942, as an assistant to the chief of staff 184 of the Giaginsky Cavus. regiment of the 64th cav. division of the Red Army. Killed the entire regiment. The division lasted a little more than a month. Kuban Cossacks ...

[Yaik Cossack]

83rd Cavalry Division (USSR)
During the war

It was formed from September 1 to October 1, 1941, mainly from the Ural Cossacks.

On November 7, 1941, the division was sent to the front by 14 echelons. The personnel of the division accept baptism of fire as part of a horse-mechanized group of troops of the 61st Army in the area of ​​the city of Ryazhsky.

On February 21, 1942, after the battles, the division was withdrawn to the reserve, first of the Western and then Bryansk fronts, in the stepson area of ​​the Tula region where it was understaffed until December 25, 1942.

On January 15, 1943, a division of the 7th Cavalry Corps was introduced into a breakthrough to the southwest of Cantemirovka. For 4 days in the rear of the enemy the division marched 215 km with battles and liberated the city of Urazov and Valuyki - important railway junctions, defeated the Italian Alpine Corps.

For exemplary tasks and heroism of the personnel in the Valuy-Urazovo operation, the division was renamed the 13th Guards Cavalry Division.

From January 20 to April 1, 1943, the division actively participated in the hostilities on the Voronezh Front as part of the 6th Guards Cavalry Corps, having fought 1670 km and liberating 800 settlements.

From August 14 to October 5, 1943, the division took an active part in the offensive operations of the Western Front as part of the 10th Army.

From January 28 to April 13, 1944, it successfully fulfills the task of capturing important communications in the enemy rear lines of Lutsk, Rivne, and raids the enemy rear in the area of ​​the city of Dubno.

By order of the Supreme High Command No. 22 of February 7, 1944, for the capture of the city of Rivne, the division was given the name Rivne.

On July 27-30, 1944, the division took part in battles behind enemy lines near the Vistula River in the Pianitsa - Hvalewice (Poland) sector as part of the 1st Ukrainian Front, and from October 6 to December 5, 1944 in raid battles in the Budapest direction as part of 6 Guards Cavalry Corps.

For the possession of the city of Debrecen by Decree of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR of November 14, 1944, the division was awarded the Order of the Red Banner.

From December 10, 1944 to January 27, 1945, the division fights northwest of Medoverce (Czechoslovakia).

From April 5 to May 12, conducts battles in the directions of Brno and Mokrovrat (Czechoslovakia). For exemplary fulfillment of the command assignments in battles with the German invaders in Czechoslovakia by Decree of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR of May 17, 1945, the division was awarded the Order of Suvorov 2nd degree.

From June 5 to July 31, 1945 the division makes a march from the Mokrovrat region to the city of Novograd-Volynsky.

On August 1, 1945, pursuant to the directive of the General Staff Org / 4/85329 of June 30, 1945, the division was reorganized into the 11th Guards Motorized Rifle Rivne Red Banner Order of the Suvorov Division.

During the war years, the combat banners of the units of the division were decorated with 22 orders, 30 guardsmen received the title of Heroes of the Soviet Union.

Composition during the war:
215 Cavalry Regiment
226 Cavalry Regiment
231 Cavalry Regiment
separate chemical defense squadron
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/83-%FF_...(%D1%D1%D1%D0)

[tundra]

Here they are ours

[VKabanov]

Most Cossack units wore the ranks of the Guards, and that says a lot!

[tundra]

Yes, because the Cossacks were originally guardsmen

[bubble82009]

the most important thing in Russia at the official level is that they do not make the heroes of the struggle against Bolshevism, as they do in Ukraine with the Bandera.

[Klim podkova]

Word of the author.
Big to all who left comments. I did not expect the article to cause such a violent reaction. It turns out that, apart from Ukraine, there is another sore subject - the Cossacks. Now I will try to answer some questions.

1. I think I quite clearly expressed my attitude towards the Cossacks of the Wehrmacht: I don’t consider them as heroes, I don’t admire them.
2. In the article notedthat the Cossacks of the Wehrmacht were distinguished by cruelty towards the civilian population both in the USSR and in Yugoslavia. Pannwitz’s testimony at the trial about corps actions in Yugoslavia (shootings, hangings, mass floggings and rape) simply did not result. No wonder the Serbs so insistently demanded their issuance.
3. In addition to the 15 corps, there were still Cossack units within the Wehrmacht. But the article is about one particular unit, and not about the Cossacks in the service of Germany as a whole.
4. The core of the 15th corps was the Cossacks-citizens of the USSR, which removes many questions such as "should they be considered traitors?" Yes, I think so.
5. There was a question about Pannwitz. Open the Internet, on the Cossack sites his story is retold more than once. There are poems and even songs about him. As one of the members of the forum rightly noted, the German Pannwitz wasn’t just a traitor, he did not change the oath.
6. Mass betrayal of the Cossacks was not! For comparison, at the end of the article list of Cossack units who fought против nazis. It also stipulates that the list not full.
7. This is just a review article, the life of which is 2-3 of the day, and not a scientific work. So keep that in mind. I set my goal to arouse interest. Who he woke up - Google to help you!

[atalef]

Quote: Klim Podkova

Big comments to everyone

And thank you

[tundra]

Article set + story you need to know. Himself a descendant of the Don Cossacks by father, well, it infuriates that to be honest, there were traitors among us. THERE ARE ALWAYS FIND LEBERASTS, climb out like cockroaches from the cracks to dance in the Slavs, such as you are. And we are so inappropriate and not programmable, well, we don’t need to climb, here you are not welcome. I myself am not in the Cossacks, well, proud of my ancestors, but how can you not be proud of your story? Yes, I take a look at the pictures, my father and grandfather’s brothers, I just go nuts, these are people, peace, dignity, HONOR (awards), of course, people because of the Pale of Settlement did not need people with dignity. And to lower everyone below themselves, in life they would kiss the boots.

[RoTTor]

because of the Pale of Settlement - people, and you, uh ... uh, then, superman? These were those who licked assholes to the Nazis and differed in the executions of children and the elderly.

[tundra]

You fool! Iyubishe PROVOCATOR

[tundra]

This is how liberals like you consider themselves superhumans.

[RoTTor]

Together with the traitor, the fascist Cossack-punisher Kononov, it would be necessary to hang those who overlooked this scum and let him grow to the regiment.
Judging by the fact that this traitor successfully survived the 1937th, he probably, and the loudest screaming, “Glory to the Great Stalin !!! "And denunciations wrote, etc. etc. These are the ones who climb.
1991 showed that such breeds like rats ...

[equity]

Article is excellent +++ I especially liked the first part! let some forum users remember about this article when they will once again pour mud on a single people, blaming all the representatives of this people, and not individual groups of people who are really guilty of something!

[Belokazak]

> Cossack military units - participants in the Great Patriotic War of 1941 -1945:
[blah blah blah]
And that is not all! Any questions?

There are no questions, there is an addition)) Even two. Fugitive, anyone can find the details themselves.
1) when in the 30s Dzhugashvili formed Cossack units, they first wrote down the existing equestrian division, in which the Cossacks, if they were, only concealed the Cossack origin. Ethnic Cossacks were able to register there only later.

2) if at the beginning of the war some Cossack regiments consisted of 70% of Cossacks, by the end of the war there were up to 10-15% of Cossacks

So fool around with lists of fictitious "Cossack" regiments, but don't forget.