Military Review

Who to believe? (Ostrogogo pneumonia in the eyes of some media)

51
“Information is what we communicate to the consumer,” said one of the most famous American TV presenters, W. Cronkite.


After reading the statements on this topic of various media, I decided to comment on this.

On January 29, the Ombudsman for the Voronezh Region, Tatyana Zrazhevskaya, visited the guarded part. According to the Ombudsman, conditions for conscripts are ideal. The temperature in the premises is maintained at 21 degrees, there is a room for drying clothes, where the temperature of the equipment is 45 — 50 degrees. Also, there are two souls per company. In addition, quartzing is constantly held in the premises, and conscripts are given a vitamin cocktail every day - a mixture of syrup with a decoction of linden and other useful herbs.

Lusy, the song in the open! I am touched by how wonderful everything is! A month has not passed, and the representative has already inspected everything.

According to official data, 688 soldiers got into Voronezh hospital in January, of which 98 came down with a diagnosis of pneumonia. The rest - SARS and other diseases. The epidemic at the training center began before the New Year. Attention, question: it only seems to me that one of the turtles of that ... is lying? Tell me, stupid, how can you get sick in such luxurious conditions?

As told Zrazhevskaya, conscripts three times a day measure the temperature. If it is above the norm, the soldier is sent to the medical center. It has 33 cots. Half of them are now busy. According to the ombudsman, there are more than enough medications in the first-aid post. Every month, the military sends to the ministry applications for drugs that are lacking. Anti-cold medicines have remained since last autumn.

And in December last year in Nikita Nikita’s demobilization hospital in Voronezh (he was in the same room with my mate with pneumonia), I told something else. “I begged to take me here. In the medical unit - oak forest, treated with aspirin and paracetamol, something else was pricked. Damn him, with demob, here at least cure. " Another week after the date of the layup lay, by the way. Well, doleli, not kicked out.

At the same time, the head of the medical unit, Captain Zolotavin, hanged himself. What caused the suicide, investigators are now investigating. According to some information, the head of the police bought at his own expense the missing medicines for the soldiers, since they had to treat with expired medicines.

According to Zrazhevskaya, the epidemic is already declining. Now in Voronezh Hospital 230 soldiers from the unit. At the same time, recovering conscripts from the hospital are first placed in a quarantine room, and only then completely put into normal service. The Ombudsman noted that the leadership of the unit is open for inspection and can be viewed with documents.

Well yes. Labor doctors of the Voronezh hospital. And Nikita told me that before taking him to the hospital, they took him a written receipt not to disclose everything related to the epidemic. Trifle ...

According to Zrazhevskaya, the main problem in the unit is the lack of medical staff. Now on 1500 conscripts have 3-4 paramedic. They can not determine the time of complications in sick conscripts. Moreover, the medical staff is fully staffed. The Ombudsman believes that the number of medical staff must be increased. The unit also noted that the place of the hung chief of the medical unit is now occupied. But the name of the doctor is not called.

I don’t know what they showed to the bokosmen (they came up with the term), but for some reason the soldiers from that part spoke with one voice about dampness, cold and complete refusing to treat the diseased. And I believe them more. And with a new doctor - lies. I learned through friends. He is not here.

Everything is very similar to the old army anecdote about the fact that "everything is in order, only Tuzik died." A joke a joke, but two young men died and the officer committed suicide. Not the worst, according to reviews.

And we continue to sing about the fact that "everything will be fine."

Tired already.

This is how it happens: they sing, they sing, and then they wonder where so many people want to make it, with pink and orange flags.

Or maybe just stop lying?

Materials used: http://www.moe-online.ru/news/view/282192.html
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  1. Alex_Popovson
    Alex_Popovson 31 January 2014 08: 16
    +6
    Or maybe just stop lying?

    Well, if you bring a rank to someone or someone from the Committee, everywhere will be at the level of the best European clinics - window dressing however. The same can be said about everything, even Putin, at least Skvortsov will come - everywhere there is almost a rainbow and cute cats.
    1. baltika-18
      baltika-18 31 January 2014 09: 34
      +2
      Quote: Alex_Popovson
      window dressing however

      Window dressing is enough everywhere. It is difficult to judge the reasons without seeing. Apparently she is not alone.
      One thing I know for sure, the uniform is right now, the nephew served a year ago. Maybe the new one will correct at least partially the situation.
      1. cth; fyn
        cth; fyn 31 January 2014 11: 58
        +2
        what for new? to return the old, good, time-tested, beloved in the troops flora and deal with the end, the experiment was not recognized as a success.
  2. rauffg
    rauffg 31 January 2014 08: 18
    +3
    as there is in a joke: these are the tablet, divided in two. one part so that the head does not hurt, and the second so that the legs do not smell ... Health must be strengthened and protected from childhood.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  3. pv1005
    pv1005 31 January 2014 08: 19
    0
    OBS-one grandmother said.
  4. valokordin
    valokordin 31 January 2014 08: 31
    +4
    It seems to me that the author decided to appropriate the laurels of the committee of soldiers' mothers, whose efforts the Russian army was falling apart. Frankly, I do not believe this self-appointed defender.
    a soldier must courageously overcome hardships and hardships. I experienced this in 1964-1967. We were tempered in warm toilets, and nobody hurt us with hard soldiers. If the soldier is not tempered, then he will catch pneumonia, a viral disease, from a weak immunity in the cabin. But then we had toilets in the cold.
    1. Alex_Popovson
      Alex_Popovson 31 January 2014 09: 09
      +1
      I experienced it in 1964-1967

      The standards have changed, the form has changed and the authorities have changed
      1. valokordin
        valokordin 31 January 2014 11: 13
        +3
        Quote: Alex_Popovson
        I experienced it in 1964-1967

        The standards have changed, the form has changed and the authorities have changed


        Only one thing has not changed - the need to defend the Motherland, and the squelch soldier will not protect her, and if both father and mother advise him to surrender, then everything will be like rain, which he advised to surrender Leningrad without a fight.
        1. Doctorleg
          Doctorleg 31 January 2014 11: 40
          +2
          Yes, Leningrad did not advise to take the rain - there was a survey, i.e. asked people's opinions. Of course, every person should be tempered - just read how to do it - the main rule is gradually. Nobody argues that "walruses" are hardened people, but they do not live in constant cold and do not go to the toilet in the cold. He himself served in 86-88, and it was such a toilet for a hundred places - in winter it was even impossible to remove it - the frost was over 30 degrees, everything was frozen - beauty. what does this have to do with hardening? In time of peace, die from a cold or return disabled? I was also surprised by the presence of as many as 2 showers per company, that is, 1 shower for 60 people. This is how you can have time to wash. Or hardening again - a bath once a week. Yes, it was so with us, but in the 60s, when you served as a personal car, it was rare. Now many people have cars, and a shower for a soldier, as it was a luxury, remained for them
          1. washi
            washi 31 January 2014 13: 25
            -1
            Quote: DoctorOleg
            Another surprise was the presence of as many as 2 souls per company, i.e. 1 shower for 60 people.

            Maybe you also have coffee in the morning in the trench and dry closets. Learn to use what is. What kind of shower? There is cold water in the wash basin - it’s already happiness. And the fact that she was covered with ice is so little things.
        2. smersh70
          smersh70 31 January 2014 13: 15
          +2
          Quote: valokordin
          and the squelch soldier won't protect her

          frosts and pneumonia have always been, but how much it hurt then now, that’s the problem. The same thing happens with us. The village guys are more resistant to disease, but the urban squish. Minus 1 in the winter, everything, half a mile already lies smile. Food and products are to blame. There used to be a generation of butter, meat. And now the generation of Pepsi and Texun (Turkish oil)
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. washi
        washi 31 January 2014 13: 22
        0
        Quote: Alex_Popovson
        I experienced it in 1964-1967

        The standards have changed, the form has changed and the authorities have changed

        So what? The conditions of warfare have changed?
        These are the soldiers.
        Who will come to them at the front line at -40?
        If they themselves are stupid, then not a single doctor and commander will help.
        We had an experimental course at the school. In Western Siberia, they lived in summer B / U tents, in overcoats from July (admission) through mid-December. They were taken to the school in October for 3 weeks to take the oath and harvest cabbage in state fields. There were no cases.
        Now recruits are busy with children. They are stupid and infantile children. Fursenko achieved his goal: he educated consumers who are not able to physically take care of neither themselves nor their family. Everything at them rests against money.
        And if anyone died (this is of course sad for relatives), that is, natural selection. I couldn’t take care of myself, I won’t be able to take care of the family, of the Motherland in the end.
        1. Alex_Popovson
          Alex_Popovson 31 January 2014 14: 05
          +1
          The conditions of warfare have changed?

          Ha ha ha, do we have hostilities? Where? Let's be serious, in peacetime such incidents are unacceptable.
    2. Normal
      Normal 31 January 2014 09: 18
      +7
      Quote: valokordin
      a soldier must courageously overcome hardships and hardships.


      Who is arguing? Of course it should! Before being wounded or killed. But this is at war, and in peacetime how can one overcome ... pneumonia? The disease is known to be serious and fatal before the discovery of antibiotics.
      Quote: valokordin
      I experienced this in 1964-1967. We were tempered in warm toilets, and nobody hurt us with hard soldiers.

      It was in a different army, in different conditions, with a different attitude towards the soldier, with a different form of clothing, with different feeding and medical supplies at last. AT OTHER TIME it was.
      And in the current
      98 came down with a diagnosis of pneumonia.

      Rota dropped out. Are the losses too great for peacetime?
      1. washi
        washi 31 January 2014 13: 30
        +1
        Quote: Normal
        Quote: valokordin soldier must courageously overcome hardships and hardships. Who argues? Of course it should! Before being wounded or killed. But this is at war, and in peacetime how can one overcome ... pneumonia? The disease is known to be severe and fatal before the discovery of antibiotics. Quote: valokordin

        It is still necessary to bring to pneumonia from the usual ARVI. This is where the guilty must be sought. Yes, and with an increased load on the service, the body mobilizes, and now they have relaxation, especially after past incidents
        In addition, many antibiotics ceased to function due to the addiction of some organisms to it. And now all imported livestock are being chipped off with antibiotics.
    3. Pashhenko Nikolay
      Pashhenko Nikolay 31 January 2014 10: 00
      0
      Well, that is, in your opinion, the death of several other people's children is normal, what would you like to temper others? Are you just as harsh about your children?
      1. washi
        washi 31 January 2014 13: 32
        0
        Quote: Pashhenko Nikolay
        Well, that is, in your opinion, the death of several other people's children is normal, what would you like to temper others? Are you just as harsh about your children?

        So that they survive in the forest, and not just in a comfortable barracks with a shower
    4. revnagan
      revnagan 31 January 2014 12: 23
      +3
      Quote: valokordin
      If the soldier is not tempered, then he will catch pneumonia, a viral disease, from weak immunity

      It is possible and necessary to temper. Only you can temper a FULLY HEALTHY ORGANISM. And with the mind, according to the system. And now out of 10 conscripts there are 9 patients. Moreover, there is a disease in a latent form, and in the military registration and enlistment office nobody is interested, because to distinguish a "mower" from a patient difficult, needs money and time. Who needs it? You need a draft plan, not healthy conscripts. And then the heart became (a hidden defect), then from hardening pneumonia.
    5. Roman Skomorokhov
      31 January 2014 12: 42
      +3
      Quote: valokordin
      the author decided to appropriate the laurels of the committee of soldiers' mothers, whose efforts the Russian army was falling apart. Frankly, I do not believe this self-appointed defender.


      Your right, do not believe it. I do not need these laurels. But I would like more arguments, where I lied. Apparently you don’t have enough numbers? That is, 700 patients in one part were all policeman all the time?

      As if he himself served. And it is personally clear to me that not everything is rosy here. If this is not clear to you - alas.

      Quote: valokordin
      We were tempered in warm toilets, and nobody hurt us with hard soldiers.


      And so - it's great that you were tempered in a warm toilet, I can only be happy for you. But here’s what army hardening is a disease — I hear this for the first time. Maybe I misunderstood something ... Translate into Russian, or something ...
  5. Fin
    Fin 31 January 2014 08: 41
    +4
    The reasons are always the same:
    1. Cold in the barracks;
    2. Charging in any weather (without a hat or with a bare torso);
    3. Frequent lengthy builds (temperature changes).
    I did not go in a new form, but according to reviews it is cold - also one of the reasons.
    1. PPL
      PPL 31 January 2014 09: 44
      +1
      The reasons are always the same ...

      But the main thing is a change in the usual way of life. Not everyone is immediately psychologically ready to get used to a new way of life, in addition, the usual diet changes, and banal acclimatization has to take place due to a change in the climate.
      In October-December 1979, my growing 18-year-old organism was very difficult to get used to local conditions in Severodvinsk (it didn’t reach the hospital, but it was 2 times in the local isolation ward).
    2. Andrew 447
      Andrew 447 31 January 2014 11: 52
      +3
      2. Charging in any weather (without a hat or with a bare torso); For charging only 3 uniforms. No. 1 Panties, a T-shirt, sports shoes (I have never seen and never used it myself). No. 2. Naked torso. No. 3 Every day FO in a hat without a belt. At a temperature of -20 or lower, walk in greatcoats. And somehow the soldiers were not sick, well, except for chronicles 1-2 in the company (eternal cleaners of the territory)
      1. Fin
        Fin 31 January 2014 13: 17
        +1
        Quote: Andrey 447
        For charging only 3 uniforms

        Appendix N 8. Description of the uniform for physical preparation for st.113
        For physical fitness is established:
        form N 1 - sports (in swimming trunks, underpants, a T-shirt, tracksuit, sports shoes). By decision of the commander of a military unit (head of a military educational institution), under appropriate conditions, it is permitted to practice without a shirt or shoes;
        Form N 2 - casual pants, boots, without a headdress, with a naked torso (in a T-shirt, vest); +5 - +10
        form N 3 - everyday, without a waist belt and headgear, the collar is unfastened; +5 - -5
        Form N 4 - everyday, waist belt loosened, collar unbuttoned, without overcoat; -5 - -15
        Form N 5 - winter casual, in a greatcoat or jacket with an open collar and a weakened waist belt.
        The most dangerous pace. for the disease +5 - -5, you can form and No. 2 and No. 3. Such weather was in December. All at the discretion of the duty officer. I remember how they ran when the wind was strong and frost -10 - -15 without hats, they asked duty officer No. 4 to allow ....
  6. Reindeer herder
    Reindeer herder 31 January 2014 08: 43
    0
    As "the grass was painted" and is painted, as the snowdrifts "robbed" and robbed. Army ... Though Soviet or Russian.
  7. Stinger
    Stinger 31 January 2014 08: 50
    +8
    Well tell me, dumb, HOW can one get sick in such luxurious conditions?

    Less need to lisp, and more temper mama’s sons. And if you drive him to camps in tents in the winter and make him bring one shell to the cannon? There will lie the death of the brave and mother will not help. Service! For a year of service, 3 months are eaten away, two are treated and free. They made a kindergarten out of the army.
    1. cth; fyn
      cth; fyn 31 January 2014 12: 02
      0
      then the preparatory camp for the recruits should be organized, where they will be tempered and swing for 6 months.
      1. Roman Skomorokhov
        31 January 2014 12: 46
        0
        Quote: Stinger
        Less need to lisp, and more temper mama’s sons.


        700 Mama sons from 1500? Half?
  8. Gregazov
    Gregazov 31 January 2014 08: 53
    +8
    The most recent thing is to open your mouth to believe soldier's tales. Previously, they wrote home how they fly on airplanes, but now how poor they are, officers do not give life. As for the youth’s sensitivity to acute respiratory viral infections and other nasty things, I read an article saying that this is the result of preventive vaccinations when they kill a simple infection, to which the body has adapted over the centuries and a new one is taking its place. If you look from this point of view, then everything is understandable, and whatever the commanders do, nothing will help. I know from my own experience that throughout the winter in Tambov (1980-1985), we cadets wore overcoats several times at temperatures below -25 and practically did not hurt. In Novocherkassk ended military service as the head of the department. Not only for divorce, but also for all movements during class on the street, only in overcoats. Constant temperature control in the barracks, and the medical unit is clogged with sick people who have pneumonia. The chief at each meeting bends down the doctors, demands proposals from them, but we can’t do anything, the cadets are ill.
  9. a.hamster55
    a.hamster55 31 January 2014 09: 02
    -2
    Dear author! We will turn your shameful affliction into a feat-send to serve in the paratroopers. You are also there ... starting.
    1. Alex_Popovson
      Alex_Popovson 31 January 2014 09: 15
      +8
      Do not joke with pneumonia. In Moscow during the winter of 2012-2013, about 6-7 thousand people died from pneumonia (non-hospital). This is in Moscow, where there are enough pharmacies and doctors. So what can we say about the parts where Citramon and Diamond Green are the cure for all diseases?
      1. 123dv
        123dv 31 January 2014 10: 29
        +3
        Who does not know - pneumonia, it is a deadly disease, if left untreated.
        This is not a runny nose for you.
    2. Roman Skomorokhov
      31 January 2014 12: 50
      +2
      The author is me. Excuse me, what kind of ailment are I talking about? Enlighten, please.

      Alas, they won’t take the paratroopers. But: I have behind my back the Suvorov Military School, a higher, served in the ranks of the Soviet Army, reserve officer. This is so, by the way.

      So what kind of ailment, all the more shameful, is this?
      1. The comment was deleted.
  10. VenDora
    VenDora 31 January 2014 09: 15
    +4
    the officer committed suicide. Not the worst, according to reviews.
    Someone profits, while someone lives ... So everywhere with us now. And normal people die
  11. a.hamster55
    a.hamster55 31 January 2014 09: 32
    -4
    Wimp, not an officer! Again the Pepsi generation. And if difficulties then loop? The military is not a profession, but sexual orientation.
    1. Alex_Popovson
      Alex_Popovson 31 January 2014 10: 12
      0
      Fat, lose weight.
    2. cth; fyn
      cth; fyn 31 January 2014 12: 04
      +1
      he would have been made extreme anyway, so it's like a sippuku samurai.
    3. Roman Skomorokhov
      31 January 2014 12: 54
      +2
      What are you! Wow! Do you personally know him? Perhaps you communicated with those who served in this unit?
      It seems to me that you, my friend, are a forum warrior.

      Quote: a.hamster55
      the military is not a profession, but sexual orientation.


      Oh, how ... I wonder where such clever people come from? In which supermarket do they sell them?
      And I, all my life I thought that it was my profession - to defend the homeland. Well, thank you for enlightening.
    4. washi
      washi 31 January 2014 14: 08
      +1
      Quote: a.hamster55
      Wimp, not an officer! Again the Pepsi generation. And if difficulties then loop? The military is not a profession, but sexual orientation.

      Question: why did he do it?
      If he stole, he neglected his duties, then it is understandable. The family will not be touched, they will leave the stolen.
      And if, as presented in the media, then he. They would make a hero out of him.
      Only I am inclined to the first option. In the second, it’s easier to shoot the unit commander (by the way, where did the medic get the gun from?)
      1. Alex_Popovson
        Alex_Popovson 1 February 2014 13: 44
        0
        where did the medic get the gun from?

        In some parts they give out for free use. I myself finish, alas, without a military pulpit, but my distant relative (he was a surgeon, just decided to trick something with the service, served somewhere in Karelia) was given PM in his hands for signature. But he never was at the shooting, and even the barrel in his hands almost did not hold.
  12. rumatam
    rumatam 31 January 2014 10: 06
    -2
    it’s generally astounding, the author, someone said and blah blah, but on the fence, they write a lot of things, but this does not mean that it is so. For the distribution of unverified data, a deadline must be given. And I am amazed, like a serious site and any nonsense on the kind, this author publishes, regrettably for the site and those who plus.
    1. Roman Skomorokhov
      31 January 2014 12: 57
      +1
      Yes Yes Yes!!!
      You're right!
      I wrote it all from the bulldozer or because I paid for it. Well done!

      No one, of course, was sick, did not die and did not end his life in a noose. This is all the machinations of amers.

      In the barracks it’s warm, light, comfortable, drugs are heaped up, and half of the sickly personnel are dull squelters and sissy mama!

      RIGHT WAY, COMRADE!

      The question is where.
      1. kris
        kris 31 January 2014 13: 07
        -2
        Quote: Banshee
        I wrote it all from the bulldozer or because I paid for it. Well done!

        A novel!
        Score on these internet heroes!
        They are all who have an opinion that is different from the official, called the liberals and agents of the State Department, who write for the grandmother on the forums.
        And they themselves know about life only from the TV and the Internet!
        1. Roman Skomorokhov
          31 January 2014 13: 11
          +1
          Yah!
          Thanks, of course, but no!
          I drank their blood, I drink and I will drink!
          Until completely eradicated!)))
      2. washi
        washi 31 January 2014 14: 12
        -1
        Quote: Banshee
        Yes yes yes !!! You are right!

        Quote: Banshee
        Yes yes yes !!! You are right!

        And let’s be without emotion.
        We will wait for the official investigation, and then we will discuss its results.
        There is a lot of incomprehensible.
        Moreover, there have already been deaths from pneumonia.
        In the meantime, you were led to a version of the media, though not quite ours.
        1. Roman Skomorokhov
          31 January 2014 21: 08
          0
          Quote: Vasya
          In the meantime, you were led to a version of the media, though not quite ours.


          Am I seduced? Excuse me, would you read everything from beginning to end.

          And about not ours ... I don’t know. A regional newspaper with an Internet resource seems to be. State Department again?
  13. ilya_oz
    ilya_oz 31 January 2014 10: 06
    +2
    If the buildings were heated normally and the soldiers went out warmly dressed, no one would get pneumonia: all from the cold and damp.
    1. Serg65
      Serg65 31 January 2014 12: 17
      +5
      Here, here, I’m also rubbing porridge from a spoon and wiping squirrel .... I can’t say anything about the tents in the camps, but about the signalman at the same MPC of the Northern Fleet, when you pour water from the pockets of a sheepskin coat, I can tell you or about practical exercises of emergency rescue parties, October is a month in the yard, water from the holes rushing and nobody cares if you have a replaceable robe or not.
      1. Roman Skomorokhov
        31 January 2014 13: 01
        +1
        Quote: Serg65
        no one cares whether you have a replaceable robe or not.


        And what do you think is good? So it should have been?
        1. Serg65
          Serg65 31 January 2014 13: 25
          +6
          Yes Roman, it should be so !!! This is not a sandbox, but a warship! I had a sailor from the suburbs, it seems, did not wash, did not sock, was forever choked, I wiped my eyes with a wet finger in the mornings. Naturally not me, not years old did not like it. I’ve got clothes, they’re blasting. And some kind of clever head came up with the committees of soldier’s mothers, a mother with an activist came to us, and let me frighten, scare and blame me. Well, I told her that I’m not a kindergarten teacher, and her boy didn’t come to the resort and if he wasn’t taught to keep the needle before 18, to wash it off in the latrine, then who is to blame for this ??
          1. Fin
            Fin 31 January 2014 13: 49
            +2
            Quote: Serg65
            Yes Roman, it should be so !!! This is not a sandbox, but a warship

            I agree. But the number of patients surpasses, what is it called? Where did the commanding fathers look? Mosc should be, they didn’t come to the medical unit on the same day?
        2. Serg65
          Serg65 31 January 2014 13: 55
          +4
          I always remember the stories of my father, a front-line soldier, about the trench life, although yes, the commander is to blame for the soldiers lying in the hospital with pneumonia, there is a problem, make a decision, and don't be eliminated by the commander!
          1. Roman Skomorokhov
            31 January 2014 21: 18
            0
            Sergey, I understand you perfectly.
            Here's just one small "but": How long did you serve? That's right, THREE years. During such a time, a lot can be squeezed out of a person, a lot can be taught, it seems to be not discussed at all.
            Alas (I say from the bottom of my heart), now the times are completely different. Unfortunately. Now in a year, we must try to do something that used to take much more time. Yes, a crazy idea from my point of view.
            But if the whole army was rebuilt in this way, then the approach to preparation must be rebuilt accordingly. It is unrealistic (especially if this was not done before the service) for 2-3 months from the autumn call to temper the unprepared body to such an extent that it does not hurt. And one must relate to such people accordingly, understanding that it is simply impossible to demand from them as much as was demanded in your or my time.
            The bottom line is what? And so already cut everything that is possible in terms of preparation. What can be done in a year? Prepare cannon fodder, no more. And with this approach and attitude you can achieve only one thing: they will again run away from the army. And in the end, who will lose?
            1. Serg65
              Serg65 1 February 2014 08: 50
              +3
              Roman, I bow my head to you, you are right ... just sometimes emotions obscure the mind. The army has always been the face of the state, something that is not noticeable in society, in the army is increasing at times. And even more so now, when they made a laughing stock of the army! I will not touch the ground forces (although there are problems above the roof), what can the conscript do in the fleet in a year? For me, this is truly an unsolvable mystery !!! At the same time, I’m not taking responsibility from my parents, especially from my fathers. If your son was born, then please be kind enough to bring him up as a man and a war, and not as a girl!
  14. saag
    saag 31 January 2014 10: 19
    +1
    Quote: Stinger
    And if you drive him to camps in tents in the winter and make him bring one shell to the cannon? There will lie the death of the brave and mother will not help.

    And what relies on damage to state property?
  15. a.hamster55
    a.hamster55 31 January 2014 10: 26
    -1
    It turns out that all the commanders and military doctors are sadomasochists and they like it when they are developed by the military prosecutor's office. Do they trudge from year to year?
  16. demotivator
    demotivator 31 January 2014 10: 50
    +7
    Quote: valokordin
    Frankly, I do not believe this self-appointed defender.

    I believe, because in December of last year I personally faced something like this. My grandson, an officer, senior lieutenant, took up duty on duty in the morning already with a high temperature, when he was completely unbearable, turned to the medical unit - they found that the temperature went off scale - already over 40. He was not immediately replaced, he was not allowed to leave the service, then they began to look for a replacement for him. They replaced it only in the evening - the grandson could no longer move himself, he, accompanied by his colleagues, was brought to the car and I brought him to my home. True, the paramedic in part prescribed him treatment, so we at home and his wife treated him. The next day I drove him, again with high temperature to the garrison military hospital, brought him to the gate, and he waited in the car. After half an hour he returned, said that they had given release. At the same time, the doctor on duty at the hospital did not measure his temperature and pressure - only a survey and a quick examination. But, on the other hand, he had to go to the unit again (to a patient with a high fever!) In order to write a report to the unit commander for release from service due to illness. In short, my wife and I went out as a lieutenant. And then I thought - if they have such an attitude towards officers, then what does the conscripts have to soldiers? And now after the Voronezh incident it became clear - they simply die like flies from the heartlessness of military doctors, the rudeness of commanders and chiefs, the venality of ombudsmen.
    1. Roman Skomorokhov
      31 January 2014 13: 03
      +1
      Thank. In general, for all my stay here no lies have been found for me. So I didn’t invent anything, I just showed the difference between publications in the press and my own information. I did not expect such a reaction, to be honest.
      1. Fin
        Fin 31 January 2014 13: 56
        +1
        Quote: Banshee
        I did not expect such a reaction, to be honest.

        Do not pay attention to the novel; there will always be a couple of warriors incorrectly landing. Hence all the problems, if I became a fool ... m, then everyone else should be like that.
    2. Kus Imak
      Kus Imak 31 January 2014 16: 14
      0
      Quote: demotivator

      I believe, because in December of last year I personally faced something like this. My grandson, an officer, senior lieutenant, took up duty on duty in the morning already with a high temperature, when he was completely unbearable, turned to the medical unit - they found that the temperature went off scale - already over 40. He was not immediately replaced, he was not allowed to leave the service, then they began to look for a replacement for him. They replaced it only in the evening - the grandson could no longer move himself, he, accompanied by his colleagues, was brought to the car and I brought him to my home. True, the paramedic in part prescribed him treatment, so we at home and his wife treated him. The next day I drove him, again with high temperature to the garrison military hospital, brought him to the gate, and he waited in the car. After half an hour he returned, said that they had given release. At the same time, the doctor on duty at the hospital did not measure his temperature and pressure - only a survey and a quick examination. But, on the other hand, he had to go to the unit again (to a patient with a high fever!) In order to write a report to the unit commander for release from service due to illness. In short, my wife and I went out as a lieutenant. And then I thought - if they have such an attitude towards officers, then what does the conscripts have to soldiers? And now after the Voronezh incident it became clear - they simply die like flies from the heartlessness of military doctors, the rudeness of commanders and chiefs, the venality of ombudsmen.


      Oddly enough, in Israel there was often a similar situation with officers and over-conscripts in the sense of pertubations. A year ago, everyone was assigned to the civilian sickness funds. A military doctor gives an exemption based on the conclusion of a civilian doctor.
  17. Anatole Klim
    Anatole Klim 31 January 2014 11: 16
    +11
    A lot depends on the commander, he himself ended his service as a unit commander. I will not say the common truths, but when the commander is in place, knows the problems, tightly controls the situation and strives for the result, then the negative can be avoided. In the early 90s in winter, in a thirty-degree frost, a pipe burst and the barracks were left without heating, made a decision and the personnel with songs with beds in their hands was relocated to the club - it was warm there, formed shock brigades of excavators, who in shifts, overnight, dug up the pipe. In the morning, the local warrant officer, having traveled around the nearby villages, found the necessary pipe and for half a car of empty boxes from under the b / p conducted a barter, by the evening the heating was restored. When the superior boss asked where their business was when writing off the boxes, he honestly explained that they had not spent on drink, but went to work - the boss, no problem, signed. Now communicating with some of the acting officers, I am simply horrified by their statements about my service.
    Well, the show was, is and will be - this is a system that no one is going to fight against, it is enough to look at the cities that the president is going to visit and he knows perfectly well what will be shown to him.
  18. RBLip
    RBLip 31 January 2014 12: 13
    +3
    how is it in the Charters? The soldier is obliged to endure all the hardships and hardships of military service with courage and courage. he himself served the term. And he went himself, although there were opportunities to cut or settle at home. He said to my mother, I'll go serve where the Motherland will send. sent first to study in Kovrov, then to Kantemirovka. and lay in the hospital with pneumonia. BUT. I always understood that I was to blame for the fact that only myself was ill. in the army, I realized that you need to take care of yourself and your health. that there are no mothers or folders. therefore, if I wet my boots - don't hope for chance, take them to the dryer. kicked you out to work in the cold - work, and do not rummage through the bushes, otherwise you will get cold and get sick. If you get cold, get a louse (we used to call this sweater), and no one will negotiate for you. therefore, reading about the current horrors of the army, all this causes only a smile. even in our times, such infantile big kids appeared in the army, whose mothers wiped their noses up to 18 years old. but here you have to. Well, the current generation of Pepsi is complete darkness. do not wash yourself - the washing machine should stand, eat like in a restaurant ...
    the question arises, who will protect us if something happens? they won't give them a warm toilet, they'll freeze their priests and that's it. the army is incapable of fighting. horror and nightmare.
  19. So_o_tozh
    So_o_tozh 31 January 2014 12: 58
    +3
    I served in 2000 in Vasilkov, near Kiev. The temperature in the barracks was +6, they were forced to report that it was +15 ... The dryer never worked, the boots were wet, a shower once a month with lukewarm water. We slept under 1-2 blankets and 3-2 greatcoats. Dolbo-zm in the army is an eternal concept, while the Achwitzers will consider the soldiers as a free labor force. Our soldier is a creature below the plinth, standing at the level of a ciliate shoe. And there is no need for patience, hardships and hardships when soldiers plow in dachas and garages with a salary of 3 rubles. There is no combat training.
    1. washi
      washi 31 January 2014 14: 00
      0
      Join the Russian army. The conditions have changed there, and citizenship is also offered
  20. RPD
    RPD 31 January 2014 13: 14
    +2
    what the hell is the receipt? what "nonproliferation"? what is this ridiculous nonsense? law on state. secretly read
  21. tundra
    tundra 31 January 2014 13: 58
    +2
    I served in Kamchatka in Klyuchi at first, as in the first six months I fell ill Temperature under 40, so it was such a state of emergency with me as with a written sack rushing around. I felt ashamed that so many people were strained. Until all the tests returned to normal, I was not released from the hospital. This is the beginning of the 80s.