Military Review

Ossetian historians against Russian history. About the feat of the soldier Arkhip Osipov

65
The lack of a single patriotic, great-power and Russian essentially ideology in Russia, suggesting a single view of history Russia continues to bring poisonous fruit. Ossetian historians consider the idea of ​​restoring a monument to a Russian hero, soldier Arkhip Osipov, who in a critical situation blew up a powder magazine and destroyed the mountaineers attacking the fortifications of Mikhailovskoye, “harmful and offensive”.


The authorities of Vladikavkaz decided to recreate in 2014 on the Prospect Mira a monument to a soldier who "died for the glory of Russian weapons". The monument to Arkhip Osipov and the commander of the Mikhailovsky fortification headquarters captain Nikolai Liko was erected in Vladikavkaz in 1881 on the initiative of General Fyodor Heyden. However, after the revolution 1917, he was regarded as a monument to the autocracy and destroyed. The deputy head of the information department, Tamara Kaitukova, believes that the monuments reflect the history of the city, so the object should be restored.

However, not everyone adheres to this opinion. Doctor of Historical Sciences, Director of the Institute of History and Archeology of the Republic of North Ossetia-Alania, member of the Public Chamber of the Republic Ruslan Bzarov считаетthat the idea of ​​establishing a monument to the Russian soldier Osipov is “unconditionally harmful and offensive.” In his opinion, this is a “monument of fratricidal war” and it will serve as a “rift” instead of the consolidation necessary for the Russian state. Such monuments "divide and oppose the peoples of Russia." In addition, the monument to Osipov can be regarded as “an encroachment on the national dignity of not only the Circassians,” but also of other peoples of the multinational Russian Federation. According to the Ossetian professor, one can equally appreciate the feat of the Russian soldier, loyal to the oath and defending the interests of the motherland who sent him, and the Circassians who heroically fought for the freedom of their homeland. In 1917, the Russian Empire fell, and "the peoples of Russia found a common homeland, no longer dividing them ... into sons and stepchildren."

The century “without all that symbolized the monument to Arkhip Osipov” (the historian apparently seems to have in mind the “damn colonial past” of Russia) led to the creation of national-state formations, the federal structure of Russia and the protection of national languages ​​and cultures. Therefore, the republic "does not fit either imperial archaization or reproduction of chauvinistic cliches ..."

Bzarov is also supported by the dean of the Faculty of History of SOGU, a member of the Public Chamber of the Republic, Aslan Tsutsiev. He proposes to establish in the republic "a common monument to those killed in the Caucasian War," regardless of who they fought for. Such a monument will not cause offense neither Russians, nor Ossetians, nor Circassians.

Against the monument to Arhip Osipov in Vladikavkaz, the Doctor of Historical Sciences, the leading official of SOIGSI Islam-Bek Marzoyev also spoke. In his opinion, the Russian soldier Osipov is an “ambiguous personality,” therefore, a monument cannot be erected in Vladikavkaz. Merzoyev also proposes to erect a “monument of friendship and solidarity of the peoples of the Caucasus and Russia” in Vladikavkaz. Further, the Ossetian historian begins to speak frank nonsense that the Caucasus is "a complex geopolitical region, with centuries-old traditions of peaceful coexistence in a small territory of different ethnic groups", where "the peoples have learned to preserve and preserve good neighborly relations."

Marzoyev, obviously, “passed by” the history of the Caucasus, including its modern period. The entire history of this region is sheer wars, conflicts and slaughter on a religious, ethnic and economic basis. Far from the examples of “traditions of peaceful coexistence” and “good neighborly relations” there is no need to go. It is enough to pay attention to the almost weekly “battle reports” from the republics of the North Caucasus, the genocide of the Russian population in 1990-s in Chechnya and its absence in this republic, the “friendship of peoples” between Georgians, Ossetians and Abkhazians, Azerbaijanis and Armenians, etc. .

Only in the period of the establishment of Russian power during the Russian Empire and the Soviet Union did a relatively short (on a historical scale) period of peaceful prosperity of the Caucasus and the peoples inhabiting it come. Suffice it to note the rather rapid growth in the population of the Caucasus region in the Soviet period. So that it will be with the Caucasus, if Russia finally leaves there, it is also clear to all sane people. Today, Russia is holding back the already prepared war between Azerbaijan and Armenia, the resumption of Georgia’s pressure on Abkhazia and South Ossetia, and the more active penetration of Turkey and Iran into the region. The North Caucasus without Russian presence will return to the past. The Caucasus is still becoming archaic, but at a slower pace than it could have been, being completely freed from Russian influence and Russians.

The objections of Ossetian historians about the monument to the Russian soldier in Vladikavkaz are all products of complete tolerance (tolerance), liberalism and cosmopolitanism in the modern Russian Federation. This is just one of many examples. There is already a memorial to the Hungarian soldiers-occupiers in the Voronezh region, where the Hitlerites are given military honors when buried, monuments and memorials to Czechoslovak thugs and robbers are found throughout Transsib, a memorial complex dedicated to girls killed during the Caucasian War, which allegedly committed suicide and killed their escorts - Russian soldiers. In Tatarstan, local nationalists periodically raise the issue of erecting a monument to Batu, or the founder of the Kazan Khanate, Ulu Mohammed, who was noted for his predatory campaigns against the Russian principalities.

The history of Russia is clearly being rewritten in favor of small peoples who "suffered from Russian and Soviet colonialism" and "Russian great-power chauvinism." In this situation, the Russians only have to constantly repent for the “sins” of their ancestors, who dared to encroach on the freedom of small nations. Moreover, representatives of the local intelligentsia, which was fed by the Soviet Union, play an active role in this rewriting of history. Various Western and Eastern structures, which regularly hold various events along the lines of Finno-Ugric, Turkic, Caucasian and Islamic unity, are not asleep, where they constantly raise the problem of “Russian colonialism” and “oppression of small nations” that have suffered, and continue to suffer in Russian "prison of nations."

The thesis about the need to establish a common monument to all those who died in the Caucasian War, regardless of which side they fought and the equivalence of the feat of Russian soldiers and Circassians, is very dubious and dangerous. First, we are witnessing the introduction of Western values ​​and tolerance. They say that there are no winners, no losers, no heroes, no robbers and slave traders, no wildness, no progress, no civilization that Russia carried to the Caucasus and Central Asia. They say there is a “tsarist regime” from which both Russians and mountaineers have suffered equally.

Secondly, it is impossible to assess in equal measure the feat of the Russian troops and the actions of the mountaineers during the Caucasian War. The mountaineers acted from archaic motives — robbery, the seizure and sale of people into slavery, narrow group, feudal and clan interests. They were also used for their own purposes by regional players (the Ottoman Empire, Persia) and the global player - the British. Russian bayonets brought peace and prosperity to the Caucasus. Engineers, teachers, doctors and educators followed the Russian soldiers. Caucasian ethnic groups have risen in their civilizational development. Many nations, especially Christian, were simply saved from total assimilation, religious oppression and genocide.

Moreover, Russia could use the Anglo-Saxon option of expansion. And in that case, there would simply be no talk of “Russian colonialism” now. Proud mountaineers would simply be “cleaned out”, and their remnants were driven into reservations. There would be no local intelligentsia (which the Russians purposefully created and supported). Unfortunately, they prefer not to recall this, starting a street-organ about “Russian great-power chauvinism”.

Ossetian historians against Russian history. About the feat of the soldier Arkhip Osipov

The feat of an ordinary 77 Infantry Tenginsky regiment of Arkhip Osipov 22 March 1840 year. Painting by A. A. Kozlov

“He died to the glory of Russian weapons in the Mikhailovsky fortification”

22 March 1840, Arkhip Osipovich Osipov (1802-1840), an ordinary Tenginsky regiment, accomplished a feat that forever entered the Russian military chronicle. Arkhip was a native of the serfs of the Kiev province, Lipovetsky district, the village of Kamenka. In December, 1820 was recruited into military service. He served in the Crimean Infantry Regiment, then in the Tenga Infantry Regiment. Noted in the Persian campaign 1826-1828, the Turkish campaign 1828-1829. He was an experienced soldier who participated in many cases, including the storming of Kars in 1828.

The Tengin regiment was part of the Caucasus Corps and carried cordon service. Taking into account the shortage of troops, the command tried with small detachments that stood in the fortifications to cover the most dangerous areas where they could expect an enemy offensive. The soldier Osipov repeatedly participated in clashes with the mountaineers. In the Tengin regiment, Arkhip entered the 1834 year, when they replenished the 1 and 2 battalions of the Crimean infantry regiment. Osipov was enrolled in the 9 th musketeer company.

7 (19) February 1840, a large force of mountaineers was able to take Lazarev fort by surprise on the Black Sea coastline. His garrison numbered only about 100 people (4-I Musketeer Company of the Tengin Infantry Regiment). The fortifications had not yet been completed and equipped with artillery. Therefore, the garrison could not provide long-term resistance and died a brave death, several people were captured. This quick success encouraged the highlanders.

It should be noted that the small garrisons of the Black Sea coastline at that time were in a very difficult situation. It must be remembered that the current splendor of the resort areas of the Black Sea coast was preceded by a long period of development of these wild territories. These were small fortifications surrounded by a moat and an embankment, behind which stood officers' houses, barracks and a church. They were defended by small formations - two, rarely three or four companies. Given the lack of people, the adverse local climate (diseases mowed people), they almost never were in full force. All communications went by sea, on small rowing vessels, overland communications were almost impossible due to the lack of roads and the danger of an attack by the highlanders. The life of the garrison was filled with dangers that exacerbated the feeling of isolation from the rest of Russia. People lived on a deserted seashore, where they could feel relatively safe only in a small patch of territory. In case of danger, there was no hope of an ambulance. Life flared up briefly only with the beginning of navigation, when the ships of the Black Sea arrived fleet. In winter, a sense of hopelessness in the wildest backwoods of the sea coast intensified. Often diseases raged. So, since the autumn of 1839, dysentery and fever have been rampant on the Black Sea line. They weakened the Russian garrisons, their combat effectiveness fell sharply. The mountains were even worse. For several years there was a crop failure and famine. This led the Circassian tribes to a large-scale revolt. The Council of Elders from Shapsugs, Ubykhs and Dzhigets decided to seize the food supplies of the Russian fortifications.

13 March they were able to seize the Veliyaminovskoe fortification at the mouth of the Tuapse. The garrison fort were able to take by surprise. The mountaineers, almost without resistance, were able to penetrate the fort, broke into the officers' wings and the barracks of the first company. Resisted killed, the rest of the half-awake soldiers tied. At this time, the second company was built and stood under the gun in anticipation of the company commander. Without a commander, the soldiers did not know what to decide. Finally, seeing that the situation was getting worse, the soldiers rushed to the counterattack. But the forces were unequal, most fell in hand-to-hand combat. A small group of 20 soldiers led by sergeant major retreated to the blockhouse and closed there. The mountaineers surrounded the fortifications and demanded their surrender. The soldiers refused to surrender. Then the Highlanders besieged the building with brushwood and set it on fire. Part of the soldiers died stoically. Others were not so brave and surrendered. Some mountaineers immediately hacked to death. Others were captured.

21 March Highlanders headed for the Mikhailovsky fortification on the Vulan River. It was located between the Novotroitsk and Tengin fortifications. However, this time their attack was not so successful. The Mikhailovsky Fortification garrison consisted of a company of the Black Sea Linear 5 Battalion under the command of Captain Nikolai Konstantinovich Liko, he was also the head of the fortification, the company of the Tenginsky regiment, and two companies of the Navaginsky regiment. In total in the garrison, along with the gunners, there were up to 500 people. However, for the decline of diseases and for other reasons, at that time there were fewer people under arms.

Learning about the fall of the Lazarev fortification, Liko ordered the construction of additional internal fortification, separated the part of the structure nearest to the sea with an inner parapet, there were located food stores and a powder magazine. In this part of the fortification, it was possible to fight back if the enemy occupied the rest of Mikhailovsky. In addition, the head of the Mikhailovsky fortification expressed in advance the readiness to blow up the powder magazine. Several volunteers were selected for this task, among them was Arkhip Osipov. At each evening dawn, one of the volunteers was called out of action and confirmed his willingness to accomplish this feat in the event of a critical situation. On the day of the highland attack, Arkhip Osipov was on duty.

Waiting for an enemy attack, the garrison was in constant readiness, and no one remained in the barracks at night. On the night of 21 on 22 March, 1840, the enemy appeared. Fortification surrounded a large detachment of the Highlanders (about 11 thousand soldiers). The soldiers were informed by dogs who were driven out of the fortifications at night. Officers and soldiers put on clean linen, ready for a decisive battle. All guns laid the canister. Early in the morning the enemy attacked all along the line. For a while the gunfire of guns and rifle volleys held back the highlanders. The second assault reflected bayonet counterattack. However, the forces were unequal, and approximately at 10 in the morning hours the Highlanders were able to break through the fortifications. A fierce hand-to-hand fight ensued. Liko was wounded in the head and leg, but continued to lead the battle.

The remnants of the garrison held in the inner fortification. The mountaineers rushed to the powder cellar, because they needed ammunition. Arhip shouting: “It's time, brothers! Who will live - remember my business! ”Blew up the cellar. This battle killed up to 3 thousand Circassians. Several surviving soldiers were captured. They later talked about the feat of Arkhip Osipov. Captain Liko was also captured, but he died from gangrene of the foot.

To perpetuate the memory of the valiant feat of Arkhip Osipov, the sovereign Nicholas I gave the order to permanently include him in the lists of the 1 of the Tenginsk regiment. With all the rolls, the first private answered: "He died to the glory of Russian weapons in the fortification of Mikhailovsky."


The plan to strengthen Mikhailovsky and the location of troops in it on the eve of the 22 battle in March 1840.

Application. Song of the Tenginsky 77 Infantry Regiment

As the Circassians went to us
Years will be about fifty.
One, two! They decided between themselves
Cut our wives guys.

And in Mikhailovsky at the seaside
In the fortification sit
One, two! Everything, the Tengians, the mountain people,
They have been standing there for a long time.

Circassians approached menacingly,
Thousands, it seems, with heels,
One, two! With noise, with a boom jump menacingly,
Rush from the mountains like an evil stream.

And the Tengians are great!
Apart from the enemies here,
One, two! And with grapeshot and bayonets
They were laid in a ditch.

But the help came to the enemies
They began to press again.
One, two! Helping us was help
So that we do not pass the fortress.

“Harder, brothers, do not give up!
Here we put the belly!
One, two! Equal we now fight -
Russian many glorious mouth.

Let the enemies know
What a Russian land!
One, two! The enemy will not surrender us,
Bind all here for the king! "

So on duty for the saint
Arkhip Osipov said.
One, two! To the powder cellar
With the wick at the entrance stood.

All the enemies suddenly turned pale -
He was terrible with a wick!
One, two! Together with the cellar soared
And all were killed by fire.

In roll call
Called Arhip.
One, two! Answer that for Faith,
For the Fatherland died!
Author:
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  1. svskor80
    svskor80 30 January 2014 09: 08 New
    +33
    A feat in the name of building the Russian state. They fought with wild mountaineers, who, crouched by English agents themselves, did not really understand why they were doing this. Monument I think should be.
    1. Day 11
      Day 11 30 January 2014 10: 32 New
      -27
      Everything is simple-THEY in our land --- WE are invaders! I think that it’s not worthwhile to erect such monuments. I need a unifying idea. To the soldier-hero of the Second World War! -This is more correct
      1. crbvbyjr
        crbvbyjr 30 January 2014 11: 15 New
        +15
        ALL RUSSIA IS OUR LAND. OUR ANCESTORS WERE PAYED WITH HIS BLOOD.
        1. Day 11
          Day 11 30 January 2014 11: 23 New
          +3
          And the locals did not fill their land with their own blood? Stupid argument! It is NOT possible to launch such a provocation on a serious resource !!! This is my opinion
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 30 January 2014 11: 31 New
            +8
            Quote: Den 11
            DO NOT run such a provocation on a serious resource !!! This is my opinion

            You think correctly. A cartoon about Ossetian historians is nothing more than a provocation designed to drive a wedge. Ossetians and I have long taken root, and unlike Chekhov, these Caucasians are normal. In an armyka I came across normal men. Although one was hacked in earnest, but for men this is normal. hi
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. atalef
              atalef 30 January 2014 11: 40 New
              +8
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              A cartoon about Ossetian historians is nothing more than a provocation designed to drive a wedge. Ossetians and I have long taken root, and unlike Chekhov, these Caucasians are normal. In an armyka I came across normal men.

              Hi Igor
              We have the same thing in the guard company (there were Ossetians. Chechens. Dagestanis, Armenians) - they were not allowed into the station and departments (as a rule, Moscow. Peter. Kiev. Minsk. Ufa served there), but they accidentally got to the comrades from the south called out from these cities — they went straight to the guard company. So - Ossetians among them were not just the most normal. in general, they were absolutely adequate and markedly differed from the whole fraternity.
          2. Jack7691
            Jack7691 30 January 2014 11: 31 New
            +4
            And the locals poured their land with OUR blood! And a monument is needed as an indicator that no highlander is worth even one drop of blood of a RUSSIAN soldier!
            1. The comment was deleted.
          3. Roman 1977
            Roman 1977 30 January 2014 13: 16 New
            +15
            Dan, well, you're wrong. Ossetians, no doubt, normal men, probably the most normal of all Caucasians, had a chance to butt together, never failed, and they treat Russians well ...
            And now, with regards to conquests. Which state would suffer, the fact that there is a constant war on its borders, on the Caucasian line it was necessary to constantly keep 100 000 soldiers, and this is not counting the Cossacks, but for the same highlanders, raids, robberies, were the main source of food. Robber raids on Russian wagons, on highland neighbors, hostage-taking and the slave trade continued under any regime of relations with the highlanders and with any agreements with them. Yes, not one in the world ... Americans have completely destroyed their Indians. Russia, the Caucasus as such, was not particularly needed, but with the annexation of Transcaucasia, it was necessary to supply it somehow, but it was not possible to supply it, and so the "Military Georgian" and "Military Ossetian roads" appeared. And the Caucasus war itself would have ended much faster if the British had not supplied the mountaineers with weapons and bought prisoners from them, for subsequent resale into slavery. What was going on there say the statements of Shamil about his subordinates:
            “I used brutal measures against the highlanders: many people were killed at my command ... I beat the Shatoevites, and the Andeans, and the Talbutins, and the Ichkeria; but I didn’t beat them for their loyalty to the Russians — you know that they didn’t show it then, but for their bad nature, prone to robbery and robbery ... And you will beat them for the same inclination, which is very difficult for them to leave. Therefore, I am not ashamed of my affairs and am not afraid to answer God for them. ” Over the years, this position of Shamil only strengthened, he believed that he ruled “bad people, robbers who only then would do anything good when they saw that a saber hanging over their heads had already cut down several heads”. “If I did otherwise,” concludes Shamil, “I would have to give an answer to God, and he would punish me for not punishing my people.”
            1. GREAT RUSSIA
              GREAT RUSSIA 30 January 2014 13: 54 New
              +1
              Quote: Novel 1977
              Russia, the Caucasus as such, was especially not needed

              Why didn’t you need him? Or are you like Zhirinovsky: “The Caucasus without Caucasians”, and you know, these are actually pro-racist statements.
              Quote: Novel 1977
              There, the Americans destroyed their Indians altogether.

              Do you propose to exterminate the peoples of the North Caucasus? Including me, as a representative of the North Caucasian nationality?
              1. Day 11
                Day 11 30 January 2014 13: 59 New
                0
                Roma froze. Don't be offended. You just misunderstood him.
                1. GREAT RUSSIA
                  GREAT RUSSIA 30 January 2014 14: 30 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Den 11
                  Roma froze. Don't be offended. You just misunderstood him.

                  Well, it's a shame somehow. But with whom it does not happen.
              2. Roman 1977
                Roman 1977 30 January 2014 14: 59 New
                +5
                Ibrahim, you do not seem to understand me:
                Quote: GREAT RUSSIA
                Why didn’t you need him? Or are you like Zhirinovsky: “The Caucasus without Caucasians”, and you know, these are actually pro-racist statements.
                Sayings of the "son of a lawyer" Zhirinovsky is definitely not for me, I have quite a lot of good friends among Dagestanis, Azerbaijanis, Armenians, I broke bread with some. I treat Chechens normally, although I never hid the fact that I had urgently served in the Caucasus.
                Now, with regards to my words: the first time the Russians came to the Caucasus in the 16 century, when the Kabardian princess Kucheny (baptized Maria Temryukovna) became the wife of Ivan the Terrible. Ivan the Terrible naturally helped his father-in-law Temryuk. At the same time, the Cossacks began to settle, given that the highlanders did not descend from the mountains, since the Nogai Tatars wandered in the steppes and formally belonged to the Crimean Khanate, there were practically no clashes between the Cossacks and the highlanders. After the death of Grozny, in the reign of Boris Godunov, Russian troops left the Caucasus, there were enough of their problems. During the Persian Campaign of Peter the Great, the Russians conquered part of Azerbaijan with Baku and part of Iran with Shirvan, but there were no attempts to conquer the Caucasus, despite the fact that the Russians were supported by Shamkhal Takovsky and Tabasaran. The first clashes began at the end of the 18 century after the liquidation of the Crimean Khanate, in the 1785 of the year when the first imam Sheikh-Mansur (later named after him the Severny Airport) united the Chechens and started a gazavat against the Russians, but was defeated and subsequently captured in Anapa, the former capital of the Black Sea slave trade, taken by Russian troops. However, Russia again makes no attempt to subjugate the Caucasian lands. At the end of the 18-beginning of the 19 century, Georgia entered into Russia (1801 year), the accession of Azerbaijan and Armenia begins, this is Transcaucasia. The troops must be supplied, and given that the main forces of the Russian Army acted against Napoleon, then attacks on convoys and Russian settlements began. After the end of the Napoleonic Wars, it was decided to "pacify the Caucasus" and Yermolov was appointed governor. You know everything else. However, Shamil after captivity said:
                “Old Shamil regrets over his years that he cannot be born again in order to devote his life to the service of the white king, whose good deeds he now uses”

                One of his sons became a Russian general and faithfully served Russia, however, half of the imperial convoy from the 1811 year also consisted of highlanders, and this despite the fact that there was a Caucasian war ...

                Quote: GREAT RUSSIA
                Do you propose to exterminate the peoples of the North Caucasus? Including me, as a representative of the North Caucasian nationality?
                I didn’t offer, I don’t offer, and I won’t offer, if I hear from someone like that, at best, I ask you to take my words back, otherwise I’ll give them in the face.
                1. GREAT RUSSIA
                  GREAT RUSSIA 30 January 2014 15: 17 New
                  +4
                  Quote: Novel 1977
                  Ibrahim, you do not seem to understand me

                  Roman, I apologize for misunderstanding you. You understand that on this site so many people are hostile to the Caucasus, that I can hardly keep calm. But I see that you are not one of them, honestly, I am glad about this.
                  Once again I apologize. With respect to you, Roman. hi
            2. baltika-18
              baltika-18 30 January 2014 15: 55 New
              +1
              Quote: atalef
              So - Ossetians among them were not just the most normal. in general, they were absolutely adequate and markedly different from the whole fraternity.

              Quote: Novel 1977
              Ossetians, no doubt, normal men,

              I absolutely agree with you here. In the army, I didn’t have to meet with them, we didn’t have Caucasians at all. And at the institute I had to communicate a lot with different people. Ossetians markedly differ from the others for the better.
      2. Simon
        Simon 30 January 2014 14: 51 New
        +3
        Yes!!! If not for Russia, then the khan would be South Ossetians from the Georgians. This is already in our time. One civilization brings the benefits of civilization, medicine, education and protection to the medieval people, and another civilization destroys the people, drives everyone into reservation and into slavery. Leave Russia from the North Caucasus and the entire North Caucasus will immediately descend into the Middle Ages. Robberies, captures and slaves will go again. We already have examples in the present.
        1. Day 11
          Day 11 30 January 2014 18: 34 New
          0
          Actually, this is the SOUTH Caucasus
      3. RUSS
        RUSS 30 January 2014 15: 15 New
        +2
        Quote: Den 11
        Everything is simple-THEY in our land --- WE are invaders! I think that it’s not worthwhile to erect such monuments. I need a unifying idea. To the soldier-hero of the Second World War! -This is more correct


        At that time, the coastal zone of the territory of modern Kuban was nobody's land, the Circassians lived higher in the mountains and on the plains of today's Adygea. We didn’t capture anything, but in general dozens of nations that succeeded each other for centuries can claim this land.
        About ten years ago I was in Lazarevsky, so there is not far far Cossack farm, and Armenians live ..
    2. vladkavkaz
      vladkavkaz 30 January 2014 10: 41 New
      +13
      Ruslan Suleymanovich Bzarov (June 14, 1958 (19580614), Baku) - Russian historian, prominent public figure, doctor of historical sciences, professor of SOGU, specialist in Scythian-Sarmatian and Alanian history and culture. Member of the Public Chamber of the Republic of North Ossetia-Alania.
      Ruslan Suleymanovich Bzarov was born in 1958 in the city of Baku, where he spent his childhood and graduated from school. Then the family of the future historian moved to the city of Ordzhonikidze (now Vladikavkaz). Here Ruslan Bzarov entered the faculty of history of North Ossetian State University named after K. L. Khetagurov, and in 1980 he graduated with honors, and in 1985 - graduate school of Moscow State University. -BRIGHTEST example, NATIONALISTS, with a small nationality, dreaming of greatness. Proof -
      http://www.gradus.pro/society/uchit-nel-zya-zapretit.html
      In general, such provocateurs and madmen provoked a conflict between Ossetians and Ingush in their time, now this scholarly hoopoe is engaged in falsification of History. EXCELLENTly understanding that there wouldn’t be a fortress in Vladikavkaz, in the place where it is, if there weren’t a Russian soldier, you would be sitting there Ossetians in their gorges for a long time, tedious and joyless, because the surrounding nationalities were much stronger than the entire Ossetian people as a whole, plus the entire Muslim environment.
      In general, all of these historians, in my opinion, sin the same thing - ALL of them, by virtue of belonging to a small people, strive in this way to indicate to the BIG people, the limits after which they are OFFENDED.
      Although everyone on the heap, even having scientific degrees, scientific titles, JUST do not understand — if there weren’t any other ethnic group in the Caucasus in the Caucasus, they would have been slaughtered or assimilated by more powerful nations for a long time.
    3. ShturmKGB
      ShturmKGB 30 January 2014 12: 36 New
      +5
      No need to provoke, then let's put a monument to Ermolov in Grozny, and see how many hours he will stand ... (he used to stand, but was demolished).
  2. AnpeL
    AnpeL 30 January 2014 09: 17 New
    -13
    maybe it’s really not worth it to erect such monuments - this will be another point of stumbling between nations. Russia has many heroes whose exploits do not affect the feelings of its peoples. And let these exploits burn our enemies from the outside - that's why they are ours, common.
    1. vladkavkaz
      vladkavkaz 30 January 2014 10: 44 New
      +14
      AnpeL
      Maybe enough to play an idiotic game called TOLERANCE, especially there and then, when it is extremely inappropriate?
      Who offended? Who plunged the peoples of the North Caucasus into the war? Aren't the Turks supported by England, France and fool from the Polish insurgents?
      Which of the sovereign clans of the North Caucasus went to a disastrous war, the result of which was the outcome of the Circassians in Turkey and the almost death of half of those who left? It was somehow forgotten, but it should be reminded often.
      1. AnpeL
        AnpeL 30 January 2014 12: 03 New
        +2
        Yes, I know everything. And I know that you're right - just the people who live there will not understand this yet. And before erecting such monuments there (and I’m sure that they are necessary, and first of all on the territory of not the Circassian lands, but the lands of the Terek Cossacks (well, it’s clear, right?)), Indoctrination is necessary through the media and the public, as well as politicians the most loyal to Russia, and first of all thinking in advance with whom to be friends, and with whom to argue and to arrange mischief.
        1. 26rus
          26rus 30 January 2014 14: 28 New
          0
          But do not tell me, for an hour, where was the capital of the Tersky Army?
    2. RUSS
      RUSS 30 January 2014 15: 24 New
      +2
      Quote: AnpeL
      maybe it’s really not worth it to erect such monuments - this will be another point of stumbling between nations. Russia has many heroes whose exploits do not affect the feelings of its peoples. And let these exploits burn our enemies from the outside - that's why they are ours, common.


      Here with such conversations and ideas fool , soon, they will also ask for the monuments to Suvorov to be demolished or not to install new ones. The same Nogai will recall Suvorov, the taming of the Nogai Horde !!!!!
      1. Day 11
        Day 11 30 January 2014 15: 28 New
        0
        And it will be right! Democracy, her mother !!! And the Yakuts (Sakha) with their simply breathtaking reserves? TOTAL !!! Do you think that without Russians (Israelis) they will live badly?
  3. Humpty
    Humpty 30 January 2014 09: 18 New
    +18
    Favorite chip nat. formations destroy the memory of Russian. Since childhood, I remember an excursion to Arkhipo-Osipovka. A lot of nat. educations owe their existence to the Russians and they are well aware of this.
    I must say that the memory of Russian heroes and military commanders began to erase (Judo) the Bolsheviks, the local Natsiks picked up this idea and carried it like a magpie on its tail.
    Erasing memory once again convincingly speaks of the inferiority and worthlessness of small-ethnic chauvinists.
    1. BARKAS
      BARKAS 30 January 2014 09: 32 New
      +15
      Quote: Humpty
      Since childhood, I remember a trip to Arkhipo-Osipovka

      And I remember
  4. Standard Oil
    Standard Oil 30 January 2014 09: 42 New
    +8
    Yes, the Russians were forbidden to rob and kill, and the drones in the region do not want to do anything else. But what do you need to do with people who only want to kill and steal? They don’t want to relearn, they don’t want to work, you see it offends them You see, they insult their monuments, what a delicate and vulnerable soul they have, it remains only to pay tribute to them. And as for me it is necessary to apply British methods, well, or to act humanely and evict them all into the Amazon jungle, let them fight with the Indians, but before gorillas dance their lezginka.
    1. GREAT RUSSIA
      GREAT RUSSIA 30 January 2014 10: 25 New
      0
      Quote: Standard Oil
      Yes, the Russians were forbidden to rob and kill, and the drones in the region do not want to do anything else. But what do you need to do with people who only want to kill and steal? They don’t want to relearn, they don’t want to work, you see it offends them You see, they insult their monuments, what a delicate and vulnerable soul they have, it remains only to pay tribute to them. And as for me it is necessary to apply British methods, well, or to act humanely and evict them all into the Amazon jungle, let them fight with the Indians, but before gorillas dance their lezginka.

      I hope you don’t put all the inhabitants of the North Caucasus under one measure?
      1. Standard Oil
        Standard Oil 30 January 2014 10: 43 New
        +4
        Quote: GREAT RUSSIA
        I hope you don’t put all the inhabitants of the North Caucasus under one measure?

        No, only evil parasites.
        1. GREAT RUSSIA
          GREAT RUSSIA 30 January 2014 10: 55 New
          0
          Quote: Standard Oil
          Quote: GREAT RUSSIA
          I hope you don’t put all the inhabitants of the North Caucasus under one measure?

          No, only evil parasites.

          Well, everyone hates parasites, the main thing is not to put all peoples on one measure. I am glad that you are not one of them.
      2. The comment was deleted.
    2. Lapotnik
      Lapotnik 30 January 2014 10: 38 New
      +6
      Not all monuments insult them. And they include tolerance at the moment they need. Remember Kadyrov with his monument to Chechen women, it was a great success.
      1. Day 11
        Day 11 30 January 2014 10: 48 New
        -4
        I agree. Here Ramzan went over. Although I noticed that over time Ramzan becomes wiser. Read his latest interview
        1. 11111mail.ru
          11111mail.ru 30 January 2014 16: 46 New
          +2
          Quote: Den 11
          over time, Ramzan is becoming wiser

          You can’t wash off a black dog!
    3. The comment was deleted.
  5. Shogun23
    Shogun23 30 January 2014 09: 48 New
    +11
    My dream is to see a monument to Yermolov in the center of Grozny)
    1. GREAT RUSSIA
      GREAT RUSSIA 30 January 2014 10: 22 New
      +2
      Quote: Shogun23
      My dream is to see a monument to Yermolov in the center of Grozny)

      And my dream is to see in the center of Cherkessk a huge memorial in honor of the Russian soldiers and highlanders, one for bringing prosperity to our lands, and another for protecting their lands.
      1. Day 11
        Day 11 30 January 2014 10: 40 New
        +1
        Here is a sensible and smart opinion. Plus
    2. Day 11
      Day 11 30 January 2014 10: 36 New
      -12
      You are a short-sighted and not very smart person! The merit of Ermolov, he was able to conquer this people. Or are you a provocateur?
      1. Lapotnik
        Lapotnik 30 January 2014 10: 39 New
        +5
        You probably also proposed to come to an agreement in the Chechen war.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. GREAT RUSSIA
        GREAT RUSSIA 30 January 2014 10: 59 New
        +2
        Quote: Den 11
        You are a short-sighted and not very smart person! The merit of Ermolov, he was able to conquer this people. Or are you a provocateur?

        Excuse me, are you talking to someone? Am I somehow confused?
        1. Day 11
          Day 11 30 January 2014 11: 03 New
          -3
          Old man, this is me to the shogun (monument to Yermolov). You are just right all right
          1. GREAT RUSSIA
            GREAT RUSSIA 30 January 2014 11: 31 New
            +1
            Quote: Den 11
            Old man, this is me to the shogun (monument to Yermolov). You are just right all right

            Well now it’s clear. thank.
      5. Shogun23
        Shogun23 30 January 2014 12: 40 New
        +3
        At least for the foundation of this very Terrible
      6. 26rus
        26rus 30 January 2014 12: 41 New
        +2
        Close and not very smart chelvek is just you! Ermolov did not conquer, but the Caucasus STILL UP! Feel the difference.
        1. Day 11
          Day 11 30 January 2014 12: 50 New
          -2
          Are you stupid? Decipher the name Vladikavkaz. Has anyone paused with whom?
          1. Alexander I
            Alexander I 30 January 2014 14: 58 New
            +3
            The name "Vladikavkaz" with the meaning "Vladyk Kavkaz" was given to the fortress by P. S. Potemkin. “At the entrance to the mountains, I ordered the fortress to be founded on my designated place under review under the name Vladikavkaz,” Lieutenant General P. S. Potemkin reported on the laying of the fortress in a report on April 25, 1784.
        2. Beck
          Beck 30 January 2014 16: 29 New
          +1
          Quote: 26rus
          Close and not very smart chelvek is just you! Ermolov did not conquer, but the Caucasus STILL UP! Feel the difference.


          Well, then England paused India, Portugal Mozambique, Aztecs Spain, Holland Indonesia, etc. All the strong people "paused", so the whole era of colonialism must be thrown out of history.

          Actually, they discuss on sites, express their opinions, and do not insult people. This method, to call someone, is just practiced by those who have nothing to say except cheers, since there are no arguments.
    3. makarov
      makarov 30 January 2014 11: 00 New
      +1
      so after all, the natives on the dung go out in anger
  6. OCD
    OCD 30 January 2014 10: 06 New
    +4
    Why is it necessary to erect a monument in Ossetia? He died in Ossetia. Place a monument at the site of the feat. Monument to Peter Barbashov on the Gisel highway stands, the bunker that he covered with his chest restored and maintained as a memory of the feat, the Interior Ministry. A monument to the dead border guards stands on the outskirts of Vladikavkaz. On the Black River there is a monument to the dead sailors during the defense of this line. At the Elkhotovskys there is a memorial to those killed during the defense of the Elkhotovskie Gates. This is only part of the monuments located in North Ossetia. Explain to me now, with all due respect to the person who accomplished the feat, why should the monument to Arkhip Osipov stand in Vladikavkaz?
    1. vladkavkaz
      vladkavkaz 30 January 2014 10: 47 New
      +1
      OCD
      Why shouldn’t he be standing there? What is stopping him, or who is he stopping? To the shameful locality of some part of the Ossetian beau monde? Well, the gratitude of the southerners, the Kudars, to the Russian military is exactly one month after yelling, screaming, robbery and harassment again.
      If your nickname is the Organized Crime Control Department, hints that you in the Ministry of Internal Affairs system are well aware of what this is about.
      1. dmb
        dmb 30 January 2014 12: 02 New
        0
        Here, explain whether you are going to erect a monument for the memory of generations, or so that the nonsense part of the elite came to life. In the second case, the monument will not help, moreover, it will contribute to strengthening the image of this “beau monde” among illiterate fellow tribesmen to whom the “beau monde”, pointing to it every time will remind of the “conquerors”. How then do you differ from Kadyrov. which the monument was also erected not to establish historical justice, but to strengthen the "image" of the Chechens, because among them its "image" is much lower than their own. (Every Chechen President). In the first case, I would refrain from the monument. If you put him where, then in the village where Osipov was born, because it is unlikely that they know about his exploit. Separately, I want to say about Yermolov. Here he was standing in the city of Grozny quite rightly, because Yermolov founded this city.
        1. OCD
          OCD 30 January 2014 13: 15 New
          -1
          Totally agree with you. Arkhip Osipov was not born in Vladikavkaz, did not live in this city. The reason why they should put a monument to him? Place a monument where he was born, or directly at the place where he performed the feat.
        2. vladkavkaz
          vladkavkaz 30 January 2014 17: 17 New
          +2
          Monument for GENERATIONS.
          This is the first, second, all these local elders, more than once or twice, showed their full-UTILITY, Corruption and Greed.
          And there’s nothing to be ashamed of MEMORY of our PEOPLE — we didn’t ask for the Caucasus, but the Caucasus, except for Chechens and even not everyone, asked for it under RUSSIA-Istolria, KNOW, and not engage in myth-making and chatter, about the greatness, fragments of peoples driven into the 13th century, where into the mountains by the hordes of the Mongol.
          The monument to Yeromolov will be restored in Grozny, everything has its time.
          But the game that these "scientists" carry is precisely-game.
          Monument to Batman in the city of Vladikavkaz stuck-youth so christened him, you know who? No? Take an interest.
          1. Day 11
            Day 11 30 January 2014 17: 21 New
            0
            Do not worry, friend! First you need to recover. Then, among ourselves, we will eat up all the questions.
          2. dmb
            dmb 30 January 2014 19: 33 New
            +1
            And you didn’t directly answer my question., And judging by it and by the mention of the 58 army’s RPD, you are going to put it precisely for the “admonition of the beau monde.” In this case, I want to remind you that they serve in the 58 Army and other nationalities live in Russia. in particular, Avars may demand a monument to Shamil. It is unlikely that he will please me either. However, when you erect a monument to Osipov, who is really a hero, you cannot prohibit the installation of a monument to Shamil for see the Constitution. The memory of the descendants consists not only in the installation of someone's sculptures, but rather in the evaluation of the activity of the prototypes by these descendants. But descendants should try to be smarter than their ancestors. Otherwise, having gone to the point of absurdity, you can remind the Ryazans that they were going to fight with the Muscovites on Kulikovo Pole and put up a monument to the ruined Moscow residents in Ryazan as a warning. Suzdal residents will put such a monument on edification for the Vladimir team. Pereyaslavtsy will remember how the Novogorodts kicked out Nevsky, and so much fun will begin here that the invasion of Batu or the Germans will seem like children’s games.
        3. plebs
          plebs 31 January 2014 01: 52 New
          0
          so that the naughty part of the beau monde comes to life
          she needs three years to Magadan, a proven medicine!
      2. Syrdon
        Syrdon 30 January 2014 14: 55 New
        +1
        Firstly, I agree with the Organized Crime Control Department the feat of Arkhip-Osipov was accomplished not far from Novorossiysk, there is a village there that is also called a memorial. What relation does SO-Alania have to do with this is not clear and why should it be installed there too.
        Vladkavkaz your comment about kudartsev is similar to trolling and absolutely does not correspond to the real situation in South Ossetia.
        1. vladkavkaz
          vladkavkaz 30 January 2014 17: 18 New
          +1
          Vladikavkaz-PPD 58 Army, do you still need to say something? Or, in your limitations, are you not able to understand what such monuments are for?
    2. omut
      omut 30 January 2014 23: 09 New
      +1
      Why is the monument to Lermontov standing in Vladikavkaz?
    3. Asatur
      Asatur 5 February 2016 16: 01 New
      0
      Exactly. Such monuments must first be erected at home.
  7. Day 11
    Day 11 30 January 2014 10: 58 New
    -4
    The fact remains that the Russians who arrived founded the fortress-city --- Vladyka Kavkaz (Vladikavkaz). We scored, scored, but we were left with the difficult task of how to keep it all together (to unite)
    1. vladkavkaz
      vladkavkaz 30 January 2014 17: 24 New
      +2
      Does this matter to you? And what is your relationship to the task of rallying and holding? Judging by your competency, it’s easier for you to distribute and separate.
  8. GREAT RUSSIA
    GREAT RUSSIA 30 January 2014 11: 15 New
    +6
    The North Caucasus has become a part of Russia. Now we have a common Motherland, we now have a common history. Russia will achieve prosperity only if all nations unite against the Nazis, 5 columns, nationalists and an external threat. The strength of Russia in the unity of its peoples. As they say among the people, to which I belong: “Kyralny kyuchy birkultedi!”, (the strength of the country in unity!).
  9. Prohor
    Prohor 30 January 2014 11: 24 New
    -6
    The author has a strange logic: a monument to the Hungarian fascists in Voronezh is bad, Arkhipov in Vladikavkaz is good. Do not confuse personal heroism and allegiance to the oath (after all, in the same World War 2 soldiers of ALL warring parties showed) and the nature of the war itself.
    Did the Russians kill the Highlanders so that they, the Highlanders, would not kill the Turks? Yeah, but the Germans killed the Russians, so that the Jewish Communists did not kill them - the logic is the same, and worthless ...
    1. Day 11
      Day 11 30 January 2014 11: 28 New
      -4
      Well done! Clever girl! How can I tell the patriots this? Plus !!!
    2. shuhartred
      shuhartred 30 January 2014 12: 03 New
      +7
      Quote: Prokhor
      The author has a strange logic: a monument to the Hungarian fascists in Voronezh is bad, Arkhipov in Vladikavkaz is good. Do not confuse personal heroism and allegiance to the oath (after all, in the same World War 2 soldiers of ALL warring parties showed) and the nature of the war itself.
      Did the Russians kill the Highlanders so that they, the Highlanders, would not kill the Turks? Yeah, but the Germans killed the Russians, so that the Jewish Communists did not kill them - the logic is the same, and worthless ...

      Well, you give a pancake. They put an equal sign between the Hungarian fascists in Voronezh and the Russian soldiers in the Caucasus, these are of course the same phenomena. Yes, and please examples of personal heroism of the same Hungarians. They only remember that they committed atrocities in the rear, they were not even taken prisoner even if they surrendered. And you think that such a monument should be erected, that it’s good? Yes, you my friend a provocateur and an enemy agent !!!
    3. Beck
      Beck 30 January 2014 12: 19 New
      +1
      Quote: Prokhor
      Strange author's logic:


      More than weird.

      There was a colonial era of mankind, all empires captured colonies. And the soldiers of the colonial troops showed heroism and self-sacrifice, but only in the name of the empire and the oath, and not for the independence of the colonies.

      The erection of a monument to a soldier of the colonial troops, albeit a hero, in the city once by force of the occupied territory is the nonsense of logical mind-building. Of course, the Urashniks yell, not thinking that this monument only excites the historical memory of the once conquered peoples and the present turmoil is introduced into the heads of Russian citizens, which are also Ossetians. What after such a single idea can be.

      If you follow the logic of the author, then you need to erect a monument to Batu Khan in Moscow, and in Smolensk Napoleon and Port Arthur to the "valiant" Japanese samurai who captured this Port Arthur.
      1. vladkavkaz
        vladkavkaz 30 January 2014 17: 27 New
        +1
        Does Russia have a Caucasus colony?
        Is everything all right with your head?
        Or doesn’t it reach your not heavily burdened mind — not Russians in the Caucasus, would you cut yourself off from the supply of the Turks and their patrons at that time — England and France, Persia?
        1. Beck
          Beck 30 January 2014 20: 26 New
          0
          Quote: vladkavkaz
          Does Russia have a Caucasus colony?


          Not now. Times have changed. Now the Caucasus is a subject of the Russian Federation. But in the past it was a colony. And then the Russian Empire was, but the empire did not have colonies. This is nonsense. The very definition of Empire is applied only to those countries that have colonies. Without colonies, just a state.

          Quote: vladkavkaz
          not Russians in the Caucasus, would you cut yourself off from the supply of the Turks and their patrons at that time, England and France, the same Persia?


          Russia in those days that it was before will not be cut. We wouldn’t cut everything out, as it were, over time. And most importantly, when two empires are in contact, they always begin the process of taking away each other's colonies. Russia and Persia for the Caucasus. Russia and Turkey over the Balkans. England and France for America, etc. Also say that England, having colonized the Indians of America, saved them from the mass cutting out by the French. These are all terrible excuses for the former colonization. But in fact, no excuses are needed. Then there was the era of colonialism in the history of mankind. You just have to admit that the era was.

          Quote: vladkavkaz
          Is everything all right with your head?


          Quote: vladkavkaz
          Or your not very burdened mind does not reach


          Now on You, your remarks oblige. Have you come to the site to insult and swear or express your opinion, listen to others, debate?

          Let me answer you in your style. You are fools without erudition, you are uneducated, uneducated, a mug without logic and objectivity.

          So what, what kind of conversation can come of this?
          1. Day 11
            Day 11 30 January 2014 20: 37 New
            -2
            Yes, Bek spit on him! This is probably mishandled. He is not Ossetian. Shkolyar (a Russian from Ossetia, I suppose they offend a vegetable). Even ashamed of such (thank God we have few of these).
            1. Beck
              Beck 30 January 2014 20: 56 New
              0
              Quote: Den 11
              Yes, spit on him Beck!


              I spit three times and I will not rub it.
            2. vladkavkaz
              vladkavkaz 31 January 2014 22: 38 New
              +1
              Den 11 (2
              Did I say that I, Ossetians?
              And I have your replicas of the vegetable, as it were on the side, for neither you, nor your kind, in real life, NOTHING, nothing and nothing at all.
              And such talkers like you are truly a shaft in Ossetia, starting with these "scientists"
          2. vladkavkaz
            vladkavkaz 31 January 2014 22: 37 New
            -1
            Defender (3)
            "Now, no. Times have changed. Now the Caucasus is a subject of the Russian Federation. And in the past it was a colony. And then there was a Russian empire, but the empire did not have colonies. This is nonsense. The very definition of an empire is applied only to those countries that have colonies. Without colonies just a state. "- YOU, obviously not everything is right with their heads, such an EMPIRE, in which all foreigners were given equal rights with the imperial for that matter component Rusk people.
            "" Russia in those days that before it was cut not cut. We wouldn’t cut everything out, as it were, over time. And most importantly, when two empires are in contact, they always begin the process of taking away each other's colonies. Russia and Persia for the Caucasus. Russia and Turkey over the Balkans. England and France for America, etc. "- With what side, there has always been a THREAT, do not you remember?
            OR memory failure?
            Is it you who tell your fellow tribesmen, Kazakhs, when they, with their whole horde, went under the White Tsar-REMIND why and from what, there, "settling down" for the Kazakhs, would have ended in total destruction?
            Lost in memory, what is TURKEY in those years?

            "Let me answer in your style. You are fools without erudition, you are uneducated, uneducated, a mug without logic and objectivity.

            So what, what kind of conversation can come of this? "- I am returning your comment if you are crazy and erudite.
            1. Beck
              Beck 1 February 2014 09: 19 New
              0
              Quote: vladkavkaz
              in a cat shouting to all foreigners, they were given equal rights with the imperial for that matter component-Ruuskim people.


              There was no such thing. All the foreigners were in their niche. Including the place of residence. And England gave certain rights to the Indians, because she did not shackle them into slave chains. She built hospitals and elementary schools so that with the help of a healthy population, as a labor force and local Indian officials, at a lower level, the colony would be further exploited. The populated colony of India provided hundreds of times more income to the English treasury than sparsely populated Australia.

              Quote: vladkavkaz
              With what horns, there has always been a THREAT, do not you remember?


              What's question? There was no threat. That Persia or Turkey could defeat the Russian Empire and cease the existence of the Russian state. There was a division of the border territories by neighboring empires. Even if Russia would drive the Turks out of the Balkans, the Balkan countries would not gain independence, they would move from one empire to another. It’s like with Finland. Russia militarily and diplomatically forced Sweden to abandon Finland, which was its dependence. And that Finland has become independent. No. She was a colony of Sweden, and became a colony of Russia.

              Quote: vladkavkaz
              It is you who tell your fellow tribesmen, Kazakhs, when they, with their whole horde, went under the White Tsar-REMIND why and from what, there, "settling down" for the Kazakhs, would have ended in total destruction?


              This is you hinting at the tales of Soviet textbooks. So find out the real.
              After the Tauke Khan, the last single khan of the Kazakhs, as a result of the feud, the khan of all Kazakhstan was not selected and his heirs divided Kazakhstan into three estates, where they ruled themselves, into three zhuzes. Subsequently, the vain khan of the western zhuz Abulkhair decided to become the single khan of Kazakhstan, but he did not have his own strength for this. He turned to Russia wishing with her help to become a single khan. For such a betrayal, Abulkhair was killed by Sultan Barak in 1748. And Russia, in all the logic of imperial politics, did not need a single strong khan, the empire needed land. Immediately after the death of Abulkhair, Russia annexed the lands of the Western zhuz and in order to protect it, in the same 1748, formed the Ural Cossack army. The remaining lands of Kazakhstan were annexed by force.

              Now about the allusion to the total destruction of the Kazakhs. I think here you mean the Dzungars. We had a hundred-year war with the jungars. And her outcome was unknown. And not the Russians “saved” the Kazakhs from the Dzungars, it was China that recalled the unpleasant moments of history. At one of the meetings, one of the ministers reminded Bogdykhan that in the 13th century, due to swagger, China did not pay attention to the steppes of the north and Genghis Khan came from there. At this time, the minister continued, all nomadic tribes bordering China are vassal to China except Dzungaria, as it were, not to look. Bogdahan was inspired and ordered. A special million-strong army was created, a renegade of the Dzungarian people, a certain Amursan, from the ruling elite was found, who also proposed the voluntary entry of Dzungaria into China. In the years 1755-1759, the Dzungaria was completely surrounded by the millionth army of China and the Dzungars were almost completely destroyed, only one ulus made its way to the Kalmyks.
              So, that your allusion to the dzungar is not consistent.

              So in such a volume it is necessary to answer the questions of a dunno, but with aplomb hurry up.
    4. Alexander I
      Alexander I 30 January 2014 15: 03 New
      +2
      Do you equate the Russian soldier and the fascist?
      1. Beck
        Beck 30 January 2014 16: 21 New
        0
        Quote: Alexander I
        Do you equate the Russian soldier and the fascist?


        This is you bet. Only you said that, no one else. This is a terrible method, to immediately set comparisons about which there was no talk.
  10. Yura
    Yura 30 January 2014 11: 54 New
    +5
    And in the homeland, that is, where this soldier was born, do they know about him? Maybe he put a monument there? That would be appropriate and fair. And in Ossetia, it is possible and necessary to erect monuments embodying the unity of peoples, and monuments to people who have laid their heads in battles with common enemies, there are not a few such heroes.
    1. OCD
      OCD 30 January 2014 13: 46 New
      +2
      In Vladikavkaz there is a monument dedicated to the friendship of the Ossetian and Russian peoples, stella and the Eternal Flame, monuments to those killed in the Civil and Great Patriotic War
      1. Yura
        Yura 30 January 2014 18: 15 New
        +3
        Quote: UBOP
        In Vladikavkaz there is a monument dedicated to the friendship of the Ossetian and Russian peoples, stella and the Eternal Flame, monuments to those killed in the Civil and Great Patriotic War

        I didn’t doubt it at all, what you said is wonderful, but it’s still a somewhat formal, budgetary and protocol thing, it is almost necessary and it’s right. But I’m talking about something, let’s say the Russians in Ossetia raised some funds (or at least took the initiative), built and erected a monument to Ossetians as a national hero of the Russian people, and, on the contrary, Ossetians would erect a monument to Russians as a national hero of the Ossetian people, I I am sure there are such heroes, and the depth of expression about the unity and friendship of peoples will already have somewhat more meaning, not formal. I said what I wanted to say I don’t know, but somehow.
        1. Day 11
          Day 11 30 January 2014 18: 20 New
          0
          That's right, you said Yuri. Everyone who studied in the USSR and trampled bastards --- they will understand.
        2. 26rus
          26rus 30 January 2014 18: 33 New
          +2
          In Stavropol, for example, there is a monument to Kosta Khetagurov. And the street.
    2. Geos-y
      Geos-y 30 January 2014 18: 38 New
      0
      Arkhip Osipov certainly accomplished a feat, but it would be more logical to erect a monument to him in his homeland (although they will look at a monument to a dead man in the name of Russian weapons in Kiev) or where this feat was accomplished. What does Vladikavkaz, Ossetia and the war between Russia and the Circassians have to do with it? This will be another provocation with the goal of embittering some of the radical neighbors who already muddy Ossetia for the fact that it has always been with Russia
  11. Day 11
    Day 11 30 January 2014 12: 16 New
    -6
    I’ll rub it on your (without justification) minuses-pah. As the shkolota came to a serious resource, she turned it into a garbage dump! It would be better if I listened to the lessons at school well. Although ... what kind of teachers.
    1. shuhartred
      shuhartred 30 January 2014 12: 50 New
      +5
      Quote: Den 11
      Me on your (without justification) cons-pah and grind

      So do not pah if you write and I justified everything to you (see post immediately after yours). But you slapped me minus without justification.
      Quote: Den 11
      .As shkolota came to a serious resource, so she turned it into a garbage dump! It would be better if the lessons at school were well listened. Although ... what kind of teachers.

      Or should I consider this a justification? Well, do you know if I can return this quote to you. And then there is nothing to say and immediately insults: shkolota, learn lessons. So learn the lessons. Rating on the site is not an indicator of age or mind. sad
      1. Day 11
        Day 11 30 January 2014 13: 02 New
        -3
        Why did you take it at your own expense? Namesake, I entered into a dispute with others! Well, you slammed me minus, I’m not offended. Although justify. Yes, I think that it’s NOT possible to launch such a provocation on this resource! Komi-German), but this is my land. I was born here. Let's remember Stephen Permsky!
        1. Day 11
          Day 11 30 January 2014 13: 15 New
          -1
          We can live without our resources with YOURSELF. Read about this too. Maybe you will become smarter
          1. vladkavkaz
            vladkavkaz 30 January 2014 17: 29 New
            -2
            You with your resources ... Son, you see at school, you studied in TWO. Then you can’t comment on anything, you’ve already got so many drawbacks for your stupidity that the smart one would already understand everything, but rests ....
            1. Day 11
              Day 11 30 January 2014 17: 42 New
              0
              I’m two? For what, teacher? Uncle, look at the map for the 5th grade (where someone is listed which produces, remember where everything is indicated by the icons). Look at the% -relationship of the donor republics. Teach your wife a kebab to do the right thing. Do not get me crazy ... I shit on these minuses ...
              1. vladkavkaz
                vladkavkaz 30 January 2014 17: 58 New
                -2
                Den 11 you learned .... thinking is not your forte.
                Why so, think, at the same time, once again on a fifth-class geo-map and environmental conditions, at the same time with a grid of railways and highways, look along with oil and gas pipelines, maybe by chance they will tell you what your degree of stupidity is.
                1. Day 11
                  Day 11 30 January 2014 18: 03 New
                  -1
                  Eid-and-from? The Germans were also stupid that they sent here to tear IRON Che. unanswered, at least he was in the army?
                  1. vladkavkaz
                    vladkavkaz 30 January 2014 19: 10 New
                    0
                    Schoolboy, you would be quieter.
        2. shuhartred
          shuhartred 30 January 2014 13: 25 New
          +3
          Quote: Den 11
          Why did you take it at your own expense? Namesake, I entered into a dispute with others! Well, you slammed me minus, I’m not offended. Although justify. Yes, I think that it’s NOT possible to launch such a provocation on this resource! Komi-German), but this is my land. I was born here. Let's remember Stephen Permsky!

          Ummm, but it seemed to me ... Well, okay. I set the minus because I think that you are wrong supporting this post
          Quote: Den 11
          The author has a strange logic: a monument to the Hungarian fascists in Voronezh is bad, Arkhipov in Vladikavkaz is good. Do not confuse personal heroism and allegiance to the oath (after all, in the same World War 2 soldiers of ALL warring parties showed) and the nature of the war itself.
          Did the Russians kill the Highlanders so that they, the Highlanders, would not kill the Turks? Yeah, but the Germans killed the Russians, so that the Jewish Communists did not kill them - the logic is the same, and worthless ...

          But then I did not understand. What do you consider a provocation? Where was this born here? I, too, are a wild mixture. I consider myself a Russian born in Murmansk and I think that this is my land. Unfortunately, I do not know who Stefan Permsky is. You can of course google, but I'm not shy about admitting to my ignorance. Yours faithfully hi
          1. Day 11
            Day 11 30 January 2014 13: 31 New
            -4
            You didn’t insert my quote. Oh well. Stefan-Permsky is the one who "defeated us." He supposedly taught us to use toilet paper and not burdock (figuratively). Just for fun read (http: // I will be pleased) http: // foto11.com/komi/vocabular/azbuka.php
            1. Roman 1977
              Roman 1977 30 January 2014 13: 39 New
              +4
              Dan, don't blaspheme. Stephen Permsky (Komi Perims Stepan) in the 14 century baptized the Komi people and the first created the Komi-Zyryan alphabet, translated the Bible into the Komi language so that the Komi can read it.

              The Life tells of a dispute between Stephen and Pam the centurion, called the “famous wizard, magi the chief, healers elder.” After a long verbal dispute, to resolve the dispute about the truth of faith, it was decided through two trials: Stefan and Pam, holding hands, had to go through a burning hut and under the ice of the Vychegda River (it would go down through one ice hole and rise up through the other). Pam, despite Stephen's coercion to pass the test, refused. The people indignantly gave it to Stefan with the words: “Take it and executions, because it is subject to execution and according to our old custom must die”, but Stefan released Pam.

              Did you say that this diverged, or you remembered the beginning of the 90’s when some hotheads squealed about the separation of the Komi ASSR and the creation of an independent state, one even started speaking in the Komi language in the Supreme Council, only no one understood it. True, Spiridonov quickly covered up all this.
              1. Day 11
                Day 11 30 January 2014 13: 44 New
                -1
                Romych, I mean that people would think before writing. By the way, Perymsa Stepan was from Ustyug and was half-Tatar. But how is everything connected with us! By the way, I respect Spiridonov very much! KAZAK !!! ) did not give! The kingdom of heaven to him
                1. shuhartred
                  shuhartred 30 January 2014 14: 26 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Den 11
                  Romych, I mean that people would think before writing. By the way, Perymsa Stepan was from Ustyug and was half-Tatar. But how is everything connected with us! By the way, I respect Spiridonov very much! KAZAK !!! ) did not give! The kingdom of heaven to him

                  We started with a monument, here let’s talk about a monument, otherwise all three of them will be banned for flood laughing
                  1. Day 11
                    Day 11 30 January 2014 14: 32 New
                    0
                    You're right, old man. We won’t be distracted. Sorry, what if you like the person in the discussion (even if I don’t quite agree with him) -I will communicate with him!
                    1. shuhartred
                      shuhartred 30 January 2014 15: 40 New
                      0
                      Quote: Den 11
                      You're right, old man. We won’t be distracted. Sorry, what if you like the person in the discussion (even if I don’t quite agree with him) -I will communicate with him!

                      No problem. You can have a glass for this business (I'm on vacation another 1.5 months so that I can. If you can drink non-drinker juice) drinks
            2. shuhartred
              shuhartred 30 January 2014 14: 17 New
              +1
              Quote: Den 11
              You inserted a quote not mine.

              I don’t know why it happened. Inserted a quote Prokhor
              Quote: Den 11
              . Just for fun read (I will be pleased)

              I certainly read thanks for the link hi
              Quote: Den 11
              .Stefan-Perm is the one who "defeated us". Allegedly taught us to use toilet paper and not burdock (figuratively)

              This is your impaired national identity says? So after all, they themselves admitted that a mestizo. There were a lot of things in our history, but you don’t have to smear it all with black paint
              1. Day 11
                Day 11 30 January 2014 14: 22 New
                +3
                It's nice to talk to a smart person. Yes, thanks to our Party I became a mess. And my children are also half Tatars. Such things
                1. shuhartred
                  shuhartred 30 January 2014 15: 42 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Den 11
                  It's nice to talk to a smart person. Yes, thanks to our Party I became a mess. And my children are also half Tatars. Such things

                  Yes, we are all here .... half, so there is nothing to divide. Russia needs to be raised.
                  1. Day 11
                    Day 11 30 January 2014 15: 52 New
                    0
                    Me, Den, another 1,5 weeks before the vacation. The lactating school got stuffed into the site. Do they really not understand that it’s impossible to NOW say that the Russians once crushed everyone? CANNOT be combined, rallied, etc. . !!!!!!!
                    1. shuhartred
                      shuhartred 30 January 2014 16: 13 New
                      +3
                      Quote: Den 11
                      Me, Den, another 1,5 weeks before the vacation. The lactating school got stuffed into the site. Do they really not understand that it’s impossible to NOW say that the Russians once crushed everyone? CANNOT be combined, rallied, etc. . !!!!!!!

                      So let's combine. But the Russians did not crush, namely, they combined, and if now we start to hang all dogs on the Russians (occupiers, invaders, etc.), then we will just get the state collapsed in the image of 1991. Russians are now generally the most obscure nation. They should blame everything before everyone, and all the rest are white fluffy and not guilty of anything. The genocide of Russians was in Chechnya in the 90s, it was. FOR WHAT? Why do Russians not even have the right to be called a nation-forming nation? Why, if someone talks about the role of the Russian people in history, he immediately becomes a chauvinist, imperial, fascist, and generally enemy of all mankind. And all the other heroes and freedom fighters (against the Russians). What Russia did such that other empires did not do. I’ll tell you what we didn’t do. We did not destroy the local as the Indians in America. Small nations have never been considered second-class people; no one has prevented them from living as they are used to. And no one was stopping them from climbing the social ladder. That's what gratitude is for now. And they would cut everyone to the root now, there would be silence. SO would be better ????
                      1. Day 11
                        Day 11 30 January 2014 16: 22 New
                        +1
                        Yes, I agree with you. Dan, I agree!
                      2. Roman 1977
                        Roman 1977 30 January 2014 16: 31 New
                        -1
                        I subscribe to every word men, write to me too! Together, strength, and individually, a mattress, small Brittons, and other arrogant Saxons will devour us and will not choke.
                        Emperor Nicholas I once at a court ball asked the Marquis of Astolf de Custine, who was fleeing the French Revolution in Russia:

                        “Marquis, how many Russians do you think are in this room?”

                        “Everyone except me and the foreign ambassadors, Your Majesty!”

                        - You're wrong. This one of mine is a Pole, a German. There are two generals - they are Georgians. This courtier is a Tatar, here is a Finn, and there is a baptized Jew.

                        “Then where are the Russians?” Asked Custine.

                        - But together they are - and there are RUSSIAN!

                        Russian is the one who loves Russia. Blood issues are secondary.
                      3. shuhartred
                        shuhartred 30 January 2014 16: 49 New
                        +3
                        Quote: Den 11
                        Yes, I agree with you. Dan, I agree!

                        It's nice to meet a like-minded person, so not everything is lost. But I’m going round, I need to take my son from the kindergarten. And then mortal combat in World of tanks begins. Shorter than the computer will not be allowed. Until tomorrow, or very late night. hi soldier
                  2. vladkavkaz
                    vladkavkaz 30 January 2014 17: 33 New
                    +2
                    Ugh, you schoolboy is stupid, you have already omitted the concept of Russian warrior, soldier, in general, the name of the Russian, but do you propose to wipe yourself ashamed further? Why would such zeal be?
                    Russia is called RUSSIA, and not Alania, Circassia, Perm, or else, learn
                    this.
                    In 90 already played up to independence and sovereignty, not tired, or is there still a desire, if you recall your stupidity they say you have everything, live? Shkolota unreasonable ....
                    1. Day 11
                      Day 11 30 January 2014 17: 48 New
                      0
                      Go to the army! A scarecrow. They will quickly explain to you who you are in life. He hid behind the help of a linden ... An Internet fighter. Disgrace only your people
                    2. vladkavkaz
                      vladkavkaz 30 January 2014 18: 00 New
                      0
                      Day 11
                      Hey, stupid young man, with a feverish gaze and stupid words, you don’t tell me where to serve, how and what to have for the service.
  • Day 11
    Day 11 30 January 2014 15: 05 New
    -3
    Ssykuns !!! You can only minus it! And your children will have the same LINKS! Where did our GREATNESS disappear? Why did I respect Hans --- because they were Teutons! I hope that not all of them are on the site
    1. shuhartred
      shuhartred 30 January 2014 15: 45 New
      +2
      Quote: Den 11
      Ssykuns !!! You can only minus it! And your children will have the same LINKS! Where did our GREATNESS disappear? Why did I respect Hans --- because they were Teutons! I hope that not all of them are on the site

      And I continue to respect them. The Germans and Russians together are power. It is not for nothing that the whole written history makes us bleed and rejoice all the time. GLOSSAXES angry
      1. Day 11
        Day 11 30 January 2014 16: 10 New
        +2
        Here are the GLOGS and they agree (propaganda in Germany, be healthy) that we will agree with them! By the way, before the 1st World War we had absolutely no problems with them. REDUCED !!!!! By the way, this is not so with Gavrila either simple. (and who was he mom?)
        1. shuhartred
          shuhartred 30 January 2014 16: 44 New
          +1
          Quote: Den 11
          Here are the GLOGS and they agree (propaganda in Germany, be healthy) that we will agree with them! By the way, before the 1st World War we had absolutely no problems with them. REDUCED !!!!! By the way, this is not so with Gavrila either simple. (and who was he mom?)

          And then they pitted again and now they stick in the wheels.
    2. vladkavkaz
      vladkavkaz 30 January 2014 17: 35 New
      -2
      Dry yourself with your Teutonic underpants.
      Found a subject to follow, beaten more than once by the Germans ...
      1. shuhartred
        shuhartred 30 January 2014 18: 18 New
        +1
        Quote: vladkavkaz
        Dry yourself with your Teutonic underpants.
        Found a subject to follow, beaten more than once by the Germans ...

        Beaten ??? Nude nude. And what did they beat with the whole world? And if the USSR and the Germans united with all the kirdyk would come
        1. vladkavkaz
          vladkavkaz 30 January 2014 19: 12 New
          -2
          One more ... Well, at least, well, at least read something, except for the opus of Suvorov-Rezun and his ilk silk-lovers ...
    3. smersh70
      smersh70 30 January 2014 17: 45 New
      +2
      Quote: Den 11
      Ssykuny !!! You can only minus! And

      Dan, don’t pay attention) and calm down smile from me to you the pros, the pros and the pluses again. All that I can, guys, all that I can, from the souls (remember the film-Hot Snow) good drinks
      1. Day 11
        Day 11 30 January 2014 17: 51 New
        -1
        Great friend. Shaking with anger .....
  • The fat man
    The fat man 30 January 2014 12: 35 New
    0
    how about putting a monument to Field Marshal Paulis on the mum mound? and what is the reason
    : for a failed attempt to liberate the Russian people from the Bolshevik yoke:
    or Model at the village Prokhorovka also for the unsuccessful defeat of the Bolshevik tanks

    UTB does this seem idiocy or just a provocation?
  • 26rus
    26rus 30 January 2014 12: 57 New
    0
    Quote: Den 11
    You are a short-sighted and not very smart person! The merit of Ermolov, he was able to conquer this people. Or are you a provocateur?

    A short-sighted and not very smart person is you! Ermolov did not conquer, but the Caucasus STILL UP! Feel the difference.
  • 26rus
    26rus 30 January 2014 13: 14 New
    -1
    Quote: Den 11
    Are you stupid? Decipher the name Vladikavkaz. Has anyone paused with whom?

    Owner of the Caucasus, if it’s difficult for you. And he paused, forced peace!
    If there were no such coercion, half of the Caucasian peoples would simply disappear in civil strife.
    1. Day 11
      Day 11 30 January 2014 13: 24 New
      -3
      Actually not Owner, but Vladyka The Caucasus!
      1. 26rus
        26rus 30 January 2014 14: 34 New
        +2
        And what, the meaning has changed a lot? And you, therefore, agree?
        1. Day 11
          Day 11 30 January 2014 14: 46 New
          -2
          With the rest, is there anything? That we conquered them? Express your thoughts correctly
          1. 26rus
            26rus 30 January 2014 15: 06 New
            +1
            No, with the fact that the Russians in the Caucasus in general and Ermolov in particular are not conquerors, but rather peacekeepers.
            1. Beck
              Beck 30 January 2014 16: 35 New
              +2
              Quote: 26rus
              If there were no such coercion, half of the Caucasian peoples would simply disappear in civil strife.


              But by and large, who cares what it was. They had their own story and, poorly, it would go on. That's the thing Spain had to sail overseas and conquer the Indians. Only one colony capture.
              1. 26rus
                26rus 30 January 2014 17: 37 New
                +1
                Well, don’t tell. Do you know such a thing as “soft underbelly”? So the Caucasus is such a thing for Russia. And if Russia hadn’t put things in order, the headache would have been provided for centuries. And the Russian tsars understood this perfectly. And as for the colonies, what kind of colonies are those in which the metropolis invests at times (or maybe more) than it receives from it?
                1. Beck
                  Beck 30 January 2014 20: 46 New
                  0
                  Quote: 26rus
                  Well, don’t tell. Do you know such a thing as “soft underbelly”? So the Caucasus is such a thing for Russia. And if Russia hadn’t put things in order there, the headache would have been provided for centuries


                  From such a headache, they primarily strengthen the border of the country, and do not seize other people's territories and conquer other peoples.

                  By the same logic as yours, they invaded Afghanistan, and what, what is the result? But no, only Russian mothers all eyes cried out for their little sons. But the business was to strengthen the border of the USSR in Tajikistan.

                  The seizure of foreign territories is justified only by the imperialist thinking of the era of colonialism. But now a completely different era and you just have to be objective.
                  1. Ducksar
                    Ducksar 1 February 2014 09: 45 New
                    0
                    The seizure of foreign territories is justified only by the imperialist thinking of the era of colonialism. But now a completely different era and you just have to be objective.

                    A completely different era? Haha Is Iraq not a US colony? Or is the rest of the world not a colony? The era, as you say, continues. Just the methods and techniques have changed a bit.
                    1. Beck
                      Beck 1 February 2014 17: 28 New
                      0
                      Quote: DucksWar
                      A completely different era? Haha Is Iraq not a US colony? Or is the rest of the world not a colony? The era, as you say, continues. Just the methods and techniques have changed a bit.


                      You have absolutely no knowledge and logical, objective reasoning.

                      The era of colonialism ended in a bloody abscess of 2MB. After all, the countries who were late to the colonial partition unleashed the war, these are Germany, Japan, Italy. They did not have colonies and they went to the redivision of the world.

                      After WW2, the leading countries of the world, in the light of the trends of humanism and enlightenment, decided that colonialism was bad, and gave their colonies independence. England, without war, abandoned all its colonies of a third of the world, leaving only Gibraltar, and only in the light of the military aspect, and not the economic one.

                      The United States has never been an empire since it did not have colonies. The definition of Empire is applied only to those states that have colonies.

                      Iraq is no one's colony. The United States just threw off dictator Hussein. Now Iraq is a sovereign state. Otherwise, Iraq, being a colony of the United States, would never have committed political acts contrary to its master, the United States. A year ago Iraq signed an arms purchase agreement 3 billion dollars, not with the United States, but with Russia. If Iraq were a US colony, then a concession for the development of oil fields in the north, he would provide Chevron, and not the Russian Lukoil for $ 2 billion.

                      There you have it, haha. Haha this is for you, I’m teaching the math part and watch for political events, and then give out your comments.
  • Starshina wmf
    Starshina wmf 30 January 2014 13: 26 New
    +1
    In Kalmykia, for example, most do not say that they were deported by the Russians. Old people generally say that Stalin is to blame. The Stalinist regime blames everything. They don’t say bad things about Soviet power.
    1. Humpty
      Humpty 30 January 2014 14: 01 New
      +4
      Quote: Starshina wmf
      In Kalmykia, for example, most do not say that they were deported by the Russians. Old people generally say that Stalin is to blame. The Stalinist regime blames everything. They don’t say bad things about Soviet power.


      Stalin means it’s their fault, it’s very interesting what exactly, as I understand it, they’re out of business. Kalmyks are a people who self-deported from the Dzungarian mountains and Mongolian steppes in order to avoid the complete extermination of the Chinese and Kazakhs. They didn’t get along badly near the Volga, nobody let them settle closer to their homeland. As far as I know, Russia is the only country where they even survived. This is among the 6 existing countries where they lived.
  • Proud.
    Proud. 30 January 2014 14: 44 New
    +2
    Repent!? Yes x ... n there! My knees do not bend. My back does not bend. And my eyes do not go down. Not because I am disabled, something does not give me inside. And to Arkhip Osipov-Glory and Respect.
  • wrangel
    wrangel 30 January 2014 14: 52 New
    +3
    I read it once again. I came to the conclusion: the “tolerance” imposed on and supported by the state towards the ethnic groups of the Caucasus will lead the “historians” to the conclusions: The victory in the Great Patriotic War is solely due to soldiers from the Caucasian and Transcaucasian ethnic groups, so recently in Stalingrad one of the deputy prime ministers of the government VO (the former measure of Volgograd), pushing a speech in support of “Baku Park” called G. Aliyev the Defender of Stalingrad personally taking part in the Battle of Stalingrad. The story is once again distorted, for the sake of “tolerance.” It's a shame for Slavyan. Rzhant SA.
  • Neophyte
    Neophyte 30 January 2014 14: 58 New
    +1
    Well, I didn’t expect this from the Ossetians! Apparently, liberal ideas penetrated the supposedly educated Alans.
    And in general, judging by the latest events, Russia in vain shed the blood of its soldiers. It would be better if they were Ossetians
    enslaved Persians or Turks.
    By the way, the hero Osipov from near Kiev, that’s where the monument is to be erected.
    1. GREAT RUSSIA
      GREAT RUSSIA 30 January 2014 15: 04 New
      +1
      Quote: Neophyte
      supposedly educated Alans.

      Note to you: Ossetians are not descendants of the Alans. The descendants of the Alans are considered to be Karachaevtsy and Balkars. Ossetians belong to the Iranian-speaking group, and the Karachaevtsy and Balkars belong to the Turkic-speaking group, as are the Alans.
      1. Syrdon
        Syrdon 30 January 2014 16: 24 New
        +6
        you are mistaken, and moreover, very strongly and deeply, the Alans left the Sarmatian group formed among the Scythians, and the Ossetians are their direct heirs and this is a scientifically proven fact. Karachais and Balkars have nothing to do with them.
        For reference-

        The ethnonym "Ossetians" is derived from the name "Ossetia", which in Russian appeared from the Georgian name of Alania and Ossetia - "Ossetia". In turn, “Ossetia” is formed from the Georgian name Alans and Ossetians - “axis”, “ovsi”. The Georgian name “axis” or “ovsi” comes from the self-name of a part of the Alans - “ases”. Also, the Armenian name Alan is “wasps”, the Russian name Alan is “yasas” and the name of the Yass people related to Ossetians comes directly from “asa”. From Russian, the ethnonym "Ossetians" ended up in other languages ​​of the world.
        In a broader sense, Ossetians are the only surviving relic of the Scythian-Sarmatian language world. The Ossetian language belongs to the Iranian branch of the Indo-European languages, it maintains a genetic continuity with the language of the Alans and Scythians. The basis of the Ossetian language was the Scythian-Sarmatian language.
        1. GREAT RUSSIA
          GREAT RUSSIA 30 January 2014 16: 34 New
          +1
          Quote: Syrdon
          you are mistaken, and moreover, very strongly and deeply, the Alans left the Sarmatian group formed among the Scythians, and the Ossetians are their direct heirs and this is a scientifically proven fact. Karachais and Balkars have nothing to do with them.
          For reference-

          The ethnonym "Ossetians" is derived from the name "Ossetia", which in Russian appeared from the Georgian name of Alania and Ossetia - "Ossetia". In turn, “Ossetia” is formed from the Georgian name Alans and Ossetians - “axis”, “ovsi”. The Georgian name “axis” or “ovsi” comes from the self-name of a part of the Alans - “ases”. Also, the Armenian name Alan is “wasps”, the Russian name Alan is “yasas” and the name of the Yass people related to Ossetians comes directly from “asa”. From Russian, the ethnonym "Ossetians" ended up in other languages ​​of the world.
          In a broader sense, Ossetians are the only surviving relic of the Scythian-Sarmatian language world.

          Do you know what the problem is that it’s not yet proven which people (or peoples) are the descendants of the Alans. Authoritative scientists, ethnographers, historians make their own version, and each version is different. To the evidence that the Karachays and Balkars are descendants, scientists make a lot of facts. However, there are as many facts that the Ossetians are descendants of the Alans. The Ossetians belong to the Iranian group, and the Karachaevites and Balkars belong to the Caucasus-Europioid group. The first scientist who suggested that the Ossetians are descendants of the Alans was Miller. I advise you to read in Wikipedia is the origin of the peoples of the North Caucasus. And also in other sources, unfortunately because of clearing the cache, I didn’t have any links.
  • demotivator
    demotivator 30 January 2014 15: 13 New
    +2
    To perpetuate the memory of the valiant feat of Arkhip Osipov sovereign Nicholas I gave the order to permanently add him to the lists of the 1st company of the Tenginsky regiment. With all the roll calls, the first private replied: "He died for the glory of Russian weapons in the fortification of Mikhailovsky."

    As far as I know, it was from this event that the tradition in the Russian and then in the Soviet army got its start - enrolling forever in the lists of units of soldiers who heroically died in the performance of military duty.
    By 1909, only 10 people were enlisted in the Russian Imperial Army forever.
    The tradition revived in the 1920-1930s in the USSR and was developed during the Great Patriotic War of 1941-1945. Ossetian historians are unaware that they encroached on the sacred.
    In honor of the fallen soldier in the Krasnodar Territory on the Black Sea coast there is a resort village. Arkhipo-Osipovka (formerly Mikhailovsky). The memory of the heroic deed of a glorious soldier was preserved there not only in the name, but there is also a restored part of the Mikhailovsky fortification and a monument.
    The picture shows part of the Mikhailovsky fortification in the settlement of Arkhipo-Osipovka.
  • bomg.77
    bomg.77 30 January 2014 15: 46 New
    0
    Ossetians are a good people! Ossetians are spiritual! Ossetians are devotees! Most of them have the heroes of the Second World War, per capita! They deserve respect! According to the monument, it is necessary to find a compromise that suits both sides, nothing will work out by pressure and order.
    1. shuhartred
      shuhartred 30 January 2014 15: 55 New
      +1
      Quote: bomg.77
      A compromise should be found on the monument that suits both sides

      So who doesn’t like it? Three historians? And why, seek a compromise with them, or ask the whole Ossetian people? Or maybe the whole country is better?
      1. bomg.77
        bomg.77 30 January 2014 16: 23 New
        0
        Quote: shuhartred
        Three historians? And why, seek a compromise with them, or ask the whole Ossetian people?
        Three historians probably have their followers. You can also conduct a survey if historians do not agree!
    2. GREAT RUSSIA
      GREAT RUSSIA 30 January 2014 15: 58 New
      +2
      Quote: bomg.77
      Ossetians are a good people! Ossetians are spiritual! Ossetians are devotees! Most of them have the heroes of the Second World War, per capita! They deserve respect! According to the monument, it is necessary to find a compromise that suits both sides, nothing will work out by pressure and order.

      I agree, and I never disputed this. In general, all the peoples of the Caucasus have heroes and there are not a few of them, both recognized and unrecognized.
      1. bomg.77
        bomg.77 30 January 2014 16: 16 New
        0
        Quote: GREAT RUSSIA
        I agree, and I never disputed this. In general, all the peoples of the Caucasus have heroes and there are not a few of them, both recognized and unrecognized.
        Ibrahim hiyou can’t argue with this, the heroes were everywhere.
  • Goldmitro
    Goldmitro 30 January 2014 16: 39 New
    +1
    <<< (If not for the establishment of Russian power in the Caucasus) There would be no local intelligentsia (which the Russians purposefully created and supported). Many peoples, especially Christian ones, were simply saved from complete assimilation, religious oppression and genocide. >>>
    Russia was destined and it conducted and is conducting in the Caucasus, unlike the West, not a colonialist, but a civilizational policy, and the fact that so far, not without the influence of Western and home-grown libesrals, among the local intellectual elite there are those who DO NOT UNDERSTAND , says that this civilizing MISSION of Russia must be persistently continued until the local elites understand and appreciate this before asking the Center for subsidies for the development of their republics!
  • 26rus
    26rus 30 January 2014 16: 45 New
    +3
    Understand that this monument was erected after the Caucasian War as a GENERAL monument to Russian soldiers who brought peace and prosperity to this land. Like the monument to Alyosha in Bulgaria, he had his prototype, but it is a monument to ALL Russian soldiers! And why, in Vladikavkaz, it was then the administrative center of the Terek Territory, which included all the current North Caucasian republics. And where to put such a monument, if not in the capital?
    1. vladkavkaz
      vladkavkaz 30 January 2014 17: 37 New
      0
      26rus RU
      Absolutely true, thank you for reminding some of this.
      1. 26rus
        26rus 30 January 2014 17: 52 New
        +1
        You are always welcome! After all, we are living here, it’s a sin for us to forget about it. But some people really need to be reminded.
  • MRomanovich
    MRomanovich 30 January 2014 17: 12 New
    -2
    The authors of the idea of ​​reconstructing the monument are still provocateurs. I think they counted in advance on such a course of events - to cause discontent among all of the parties.
    1. 26rus
      26rus 30 January 2014 18: 23 New
      +2
      Let me ask you, which parties? Ossetians? So Ossetia voluntarily became part of Russia long before the Caucasian war and never backed away from its oath, was Russia’s most faithful ally. Do Russians? Or something else?
  • 11111mail.ru
    11111mail.ru 30 January 2014 17: 29 New
    +1
    Speaking of monuments, in the city of Yekaterinburg opposite the university there is a monument to Yankel Movshevich Rosenfeld. 22 years as the city is not Sverdlovsk, and the monument to the executioner of the Cossacks stands. Why?
    1. Day 11
      Day 11 30 January 2014 17: 34 New
      0
      No, they will not allow it. Some of us and Leiba Davidovich Bronstein are ready to erect a monument (which began this orgy)
  • Day 11
    Day 11 30 January 2014 18: 49 New
    -2
    Summing up the history of their peoples, EVERYONE should know! There was something bitter --- something sweet, but we ALL are trying to create a new empire (mine is mine) and we need to unite !!! It was chaotic but this is OUR GENERAL way! Only TOGETHER we can survive and win
    1. vladkavkaz
      vladkavkaz 30 January 2014 19: 15 New
      +1
      It is to see how you are rallying. Isn't this about you?

      Anger virus infected people
      Outwardly, it’s not easy to distinguish from us ...
      To get to know them, take and try
      A test to verify they offer.

      In conversation, in private conversation -
      Every word has weight here! -
      Quietly say to him: Stalin, Victory,
      Construction, Gagarin, BAM, Dneproges.

      If not ours, he will pour blood:
      From this moment you are his enemy!
      In other words, he will respond:
      Repression, prisons, barracks, the Gulag

      V. Kozubov
      And is it not about you and your kind, the sorrow of historians, echoing not the most intelligent cheaters, is this?
      We know for sure that flies eat shit.
      We know for sure that bees eat honey.
      If we see some kind of insect that circles over a bunch of shit and sits on it, then we can most likely assume that this insect is most likely not a bee.

      Now, schoolboy, don’t be a FLY,
      1. Day 11
        Day 11 30 January 2014 20: 19 New
        -2
        Bukh something, ......deleted by moderator Apollo"100% you are not Ossetians! Yes, evil Ossetians are rotting you? Join the army, stupid, maybe you will understand something
  • Veteran Vlad.
    Veteran Vlad. 30 January 2014 19: 17 New
    -2
    YOU CAN MINUS ME. But I personally think it was not necessary to accept them as part of the Russian Empire; it was unnecessary neither Armenia, nor Georgia, nor Ossetia. HERE AND RESULT TAKE It'll be this way forever
    1. bomg.77
      bomg.77 30 January 2014 20: 12 New
      0
      Quote: Veteran Vlad.
      YOU CAN MINUS ME.
      What I will use with pleasure hi
  • omut
    omut 30 January 2014 22: 19 New
    0
    The opinion of simple Ossetians:
    http://hohag.com/iriston/terskim-kazakam-ot-terskix-osetin

    Khokhag Ulubi Mayaersay
    • 5 hours ago

    but you can ask, since when did the Cossacks us (I mean North Ossetia) brothers ??

    2

    Reply

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    Mayaersay Khokhag Ulubi
    • 2 hours ago

    Since then, when the first Cossack shed blood for Ossetians. And such cases are not few.

    Reply

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    Picture
    Khokhag Ulubi Mayaersay
    • Hour ago

    Cossack himself?
    and you’ve made a little mistake in the text, you have an extra pretext “for”. then I totally agree!


    http://region15.ru/blogs/farniev/2014/01/28/neponyatnyj-pamyatnik/
    Yes, such times have come when those in power "without a king in their head" make such decisions. Well, who is this for the Ossetians and Ossetia Osipov ?! One would have thought of putting monuments in Ossetia to Ermolov or his minions.

    The Alans controlled the main passage to Asia, the Alanian gates and no Circassians, Chechens and others did not rest against them. Dedyakov was a rich city, which attracted the Tatar and Russian gang of thugs.
  • mabuta
    mabuta 31 January 2014 08: 48 New
    +2
    Friends, Russia, when it came to new lands, never set the goal of destroying the local population as a culture. The expansion in the Caucasus took place in response to the raids of a band group incited by both the Ottomans and the Persians, but this is not about that. Pay attention to the history of the uniforms of the Terek and Kuban troops. they practically copy the local clothes of Caucasians. And this says a lot. First of all, Russians respected local customs, and even built a life together on them. So let's not be likened to people who draw judgment from forgotten of newspapers. We live now, and if we are pushed together by our foreheads, then this is necessary for someone. Who we did not see in our opponents in the same Caucasus, even the Poles shone, and lately, except Arabs, even Negroes. Only together we are STRENGTH. Look at Peter and Paul Defense, where a joint Anglo-French landing was completely defeated by a handful of Russian and local Kamchadals, dying side by side for their land. One Tajik in Afghanistan told me one eastern wisdom. In the one-eyed city, bandage one eye to yourself. And that’s the whole truth of ours life. So that every neruss s offends nothing to Russian and Russian to offend not for that non-Russian, it is our common enemy, pouring water on the mill of those who want our unichtozheniya.Primerov-weight.
    1. Ossetian.
      Ossetian. 31 January 2014 12: 51 New
      0
      It is said that there is nothing to add !!!
      Strength in Oneness soldier
  • Ossetian.
    Ossetian. 31 January 2014 10: 08 New
    +2
    Quote: Jack7691
    And the locals poured their land with OUR blood! And a monument is needed as an indicator that no highlander is worth even one drop of blood of a RUSSIAN soldier!


    No Highlander is worth even one drop of a Russian soldier .... No Russian is worth a drop of Highlander .... what kind of nonsense ??? A drop of blood of any person is priceless !!!!
    Our ancestors fought side by side during the Second World War, they were ready to give their lives for each other and it didn’t matter whether he was a Highlander or a Russian, Tajik or Uzbek, Bashkir or Udmurt ..... We also honor a Russian soldier as his own and never it will be different.
    Russia (my beloved to my madness) is one Great multinational country. And any drop of blood SOLDIER be it Russian, Highlander, Bashkir, Cossack, Kabardin, Mariets, Chechen, Avarets, Kumyk, etc. -Invaluable.
    GIVE GOD TO NEVER ROSE BLOOD IN OUR COUNTRY.
    1. vladkavkaz
      vladkavkaz 31 January 2014 22: 45 New
      0
      Well said.
  • Ossetian.
    Ossetian. 31 January 2014 10: 34 New
    +3
    Quote: Veteran Vlad.
    YOU CAN MINUS ME. But I personally think it was not necessary to accept them as part of the Russian Empire; it was unnecessary neither Armenia, nor Georgia, nor Ossetia. HERE AND RESULT TAKE It'll be this way forever


    Then Russia would not be an Empire ...
    - You probably still think that as soon as the conflict for the Arctic (which is already on the horizon) breaks out, we don’t need it anyway? Why do you need a headache in the form of Canada, Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway, Sweden, the USA?
    -Do you also think about the Far East? ... why do you need a headache in the form of China?
    -Do you also think about the Kuril Islands? ... why do you need a headache in the form of Japan?
    -Do you also think about the Kaliningrad region? ... why do you need a headache in the form of Europe?

    Do you think that if everything was the way you want it would be better ?????
    answer: It would be worse, there would be GREAT RUSSIA.
    But to my joy, everything does not work out as people like you want, but on the contrary, and because of this there is a GREAT, BEAUTIFUL, FAVORITE RUSSIA !!!

    GLORY TO RUSSIA! Glory to the people!
    1. Day 11
      Day 11 31 January 2014 11: 07 New
      +2
      Plus to you! Words of your lover Small и Greater Homeland!
      1. Ossetian.
        Ossetian. 31 January 2014 11: 14 New
        +1
        Thank you!!! drinks
  • omut
    omut 31 January 2014 12: 00 New
    -1
    Quote: Ossetian.
    -Do you also think about the Far East? ... why do you need a headache in the form of China?
    -Do you also think about the Kuril Islands? ... why do you need a headache in the form of Japan?
    -Do you also think about the Kaliningrad region? ... why do you need a headache in the form of Europe?

    Ear analogy. Is there really a situation where the Russians had to harness, for example, in the Far East for the Chinese against the Georgians, and now the Chinese citizens of the Russian Federation show the Russians what monuments to put or not to put?
    1. Ossetian.
      Ossetian. 31 January 2014 12: 47 New
      +1
      Not for the Chinese, but for our Russian territory.
      Before you write, you need to read the story, or at least the history of conflicts to study superficially, and after geography. In principle, you can vice versa.
      To get started, start with the topic: The Soviet-Chinese border conflict on Damansky Island, and after the Soviet-Japanese border conflicts. After you analyze the history of Russia, begin to open up a question regarding topics such as “Threats of an external nature, for the territorial integrity of Russia” - and then you will understand what I wrote above.
      1. vladkavkaz
        vladkavkaz 31 January 2014 22: 46 New
        0
        Well said.
  • DON-100
    DON-100 31 January 2014 13: 19 New
    0
    Samsonov in his repertoire. It is high time to understand that there will be no single view, how many people have so many opinions and everyone has the right to express their point of view and there is nothing for them to shut up. If you want to erect a monument, place it where it was born or at the place where this event took place. In general, it would not hurt to ask residents of the city if they want to restore this monument. Ossetian historians are right, it is better to put a common monument to the highlanders and Russians.
  • omut
    omut 31 January 2014 14: 05 New
    0
    Quote: Ossetian.
    and maybe then you will understand what I wrote above.

    And without hints can you more specifically indicate your position? As I understand it, you advocate the preservation of Ossetia as part of Russia, but, at the same time, against the monument to the Russian soldier Osipov in this republic?
    1. Ossetian.
      Ossetian. 31 January 2014 14: 25 New
      +1
      I’m respected, I’m not hinting, but I’m telling you directly, teach history ... More specifically, I unfortunately can’t, because I will have to teach you a course in history, geography and geopolitics.
      I am for the preservation of Ossetia as part of Russia and for maintaining the integrity of all of Russia.
      And where did you read that I am against the monument ???
      1. vladkavkaz
        vladkavkaz 31 January 2014 22: 46 New
        0
        I shake my hand, you are from real Ossetians, and not from fakes and talkers of various kinds of mischief.
  • omut
    omut 31 January 2014 14: 49 New
    0
    Yeah ... No, I still dare to clarify what period of history to consider in order to see the Russian ban on the part of the Chinese and other Japanese and Europeans from erecting monuments to their soldiers on their territory?
    Quote: Ossetian.
    And where did you read that I am against the monument ???

    But I haven’t read another one either) Let’s, in the context of the article, do you personally for a monument to the soldier Osipov, who blew himself up to destroy the Circassians, in or against the capital of your republic?
    1. Ossetian.
      Ossetian. 31 January 2014 20: 46 New
      +1
      No, do not mind!
  • GEO
    GEO 31 January 2014 19: 32 New
    +1
    Apparently, those who oppose the monument are not ethnic Ossetians, but close to the Circassians.
  • Landser93
    Landser93 31 January 2014 20: 01 New
    +2
    Many write that this monument is an enemy of tolerance and friendship of peoples. But until the year 17, he stood and didn’t interfere with anyone and did not interfere with friends, fight in the same army. And by the way, if not for thousands of heroes like this soldier, then Ossetians wouldn’t be in the same trench with us in 41. Yes, and how can they now take an example from us, align with us, rally around the Russian core, if this core rotted with tolerance and fear of catching someone (highlanders) Ancestors are respected, and we surrender one by one in the name of mercantile interests. In my opinion, in the Caucasus, respect is respected, well fish strong, don’t be afraid to tell the truth and be proud of your ancestors. Today, don’t put a monument there, 100 years later they’ll grow up and say, well, shut the Kremlin in Russian as a symbol of oppression of peoples. They must know their place and we must remember what nations, how they began to live with us, so as not to get a knife in the back at a critical moment.