Manual machine gun M249 in the role of automatic weapons separation. It is time for change

46


Ray Grandi is a 5 grade warrant officer who has served forty years in the rifle divisions of the USCM, a participant in the Vietnam War.

“Nine marines died today in battle, six of them in paddy checks right in front of the fortifications of the enemy. Their bodies were found compressing the M16 in a semi-disassembled state with cartridges stuck in the chamber. There were traces of gunpowder in the bullet holes on the heads. ” The commander of the company "N", 3 bmp / ​​5 PMP. Operation Swift 4-15 September 1967, Vietnam.

And M249 - automatic weapon offices (SAW), has the potential to create equally tragic consequences? This tragedy was brought about by the circumstances that were themselves generated by the vicious system of tests and adoption. What will it cost to draw the attention of our high command to the fact that the M249 SAW has serious problems with the performance of the functions of an automatic rifle (AR)? History will repeat? I believe, and many gunsmiths of the units agree with me that the M249, having a good potential in the role of a light general-purpose machine gun (LMG), very poorly copes with the role of personal weapons. In the following text, I will try to highlight the characteristics of the M249, which make it difficult to find in combat formations.

The M249 SAW has outlived its expected service life in the army. The M249s of our infantry battalions are not performing satisfactorily in terms of the ratio of shots to delays. In addition to the modernization program for SAWs in service, a four-million incremental purchase program was adopted for fiscal year 2001. Based on the facts below and the well-known dismal experience, I urge the ILC command to conduct an in-depth study to determine whether it is reasonable to purchase new examples of such a poorly performing model. It is necessary to conduct comparative tests of the M249 and suitable real ARs in the interests of amphibious MP groups.

The weight of the M249 (less than 10 kg with a two-hundred-round box), which made it possible to classify it as an AR (personal weapon serviced by one marine), was achieved by reducing reliability in comparison with the M240G collectively serviced by a single machine gun or heavy machine gun M2. After being adopted in 1984, the M249 was touted as an analogue of an assault rifle, which would give a noticeable increase in the firepower of an infantry squad. However, within five years of operation, a modernization program was required. The upgrade consisted of adding a hydraulic buffer to the stock to reduce vibration (increased accuracy) and adding a second barrel to the kit. This first upgrade already indicated that the tests during adoption were insufficient to call the M249 a full-fledged personal weapon.

In the meantime, the M16A2 replaced the M16A1 as the main battle rifle of the KMP. Unlike the M16A1, which had both self-loading and automatic modes, the M16A2 has only self-loading and fixed three modes each. The adoption of the M16A2 meant that the squad was deprived of a shooter with automatic weapons. Thus, the core of the firepower of the link (fire team) floated away into the history books. Then the ILC pounced on the M249, thinking that it would be the new AR. Below I will show that this was the wrong choice.

Ammunition

Let us consider the problems generated by the fact that the link uses types of weapons with ammunition that have different nomenclature codes of the MO. We know that the M249 fires the M855 (A064) supplied in belts, while the M16A2 fires the standard M855 (A059). These differences in ammunition can lead to unnecessary friction in the conduct of combat and in relations within the rifle squad. With different ammo within a flight, exchanging ammo between an automatic rifleman and other shooters is difficult at best. For example, if the shooter runs out of ammo, he will have to pick out the ammo from the SAW belts. This is a very labor intensive process. Otherwise, when the SAW gunner runs out of ammo, he will have to insert rifle magazines. The inability to properly accept magazines from the M16 is the main problem of the M249 system. I quote from the ILC Charter "Marine Corps Warfighting Publication 3-15.1, Machine Guns and Machine Guns Gunnery": "As an emergency measure, 20- and 30-round magazines can be used in SAW, but this increases the likelihood of delays in firing."

Is this an acceptable characteristic of the weapon used in close contact with the enemy, around which the link is built? I think not.
Problems with the use of two types of ammunition during the chaos on the battlefield arise for both shooters and rear soldiers. Since both nomenclature codes are packed in the same containers, they are easy to distinguish during the day, but at night this creates a mess. For example, imagine yourself in the role of a rifle squad leader. Your squad started the attack with eight Marines, and now, after losses, you have only five fighters. You've been chasing the enemy all day. As sunset approaches, the unit is ordered to halt and dig in. Due to losses, you have only one M249 left. You are in dire need of two things: ammunition and water. There is confusion around. Since the stocks are small, they try to drag the ammunition to the positions as quickly as possible. Just after sunset, a Marine tumbles into your trench and hurls a crate of 5,56 rounds. He thinks it's the ammo in the shops. According to Murphy's law, these will be cartridges in tapes.

The benefit of adopting genuine AR in the squad would be huge savings on ammo money that could be redirected to other important things. Now the KMP is buying for M249 boxes 5,56 in tapes with one tracer for four ordinary cartridges (A064), 5,56 in tapes without tracers (A062) and blank 5,56 (A075). Replacing the SAW with a normal AR will eliminate these three additional item codes, which will reduce costs and at the same time significantly increase the level of fire skills of shooters. Look at the experiment schedule. Only after a five-minute briefing did the Marines perfectly hit targets with the Colt AR (based on the M16).

Manual machine gun M249 in the role of automatic weapons separation. It is time for change


The ILC can learn from the Soviet Army, which in the early eighties decided to get rid of the 7,62mm belt-fed RPDs in its rifle platoons and replace them with the Soviet AR RPK. RPK is the same AK rifle with a longer and heavier barrel, a bipod attached to the barrel, a slightly modified butt (for automatic fire from a prone position) and an increased-capacity sector magazine. The Soviet people understood the problems that arose in the belt-fed compartment and got rid of them by returning to the basic concept of an automatic rifle. If you don't understand why they did this, ask any infantryman, veteran of combat operations. His response will be something like this: “Ribbons are too much weight and too much trouble. That's why".

The Soviets thought of this and made the right conclusion. I am afraid that we will need to incur senseless losses in various situations, so that it can be understood that the light machine gun is not suitable as an automatic rifle.

spare barrel

Why was a spare barrel included in the kit? If you understand a little, then quickly find out that the M249 was originally adopted with a single barrel. Then why did the ILC add another barrel? At first, the M249 trunks were supplied with gas regulators, which had two installations. Theoretically, the shooter, noticing that contamination slows down the reload cycle, could switch the gas regulator to a higher value and continue to use the weapon. The normal gas regulator setting is 700 rounds per minute, the higher value is 1000 rounds per minute. Unfortunately, the Marines did not receive sufficient training and immediately put on 1000, which led to increased wear and destruction of the barrels. Instead of starting to properly prepare the shooters, they decided to fix the problem by issuing a spare barrel.

Fire modes

Understanding SAW fire modes will confirm that a spare barrel is not needed to use the SAW as an AR. Frequent fire from the SAW for a long time - 85 rounds per minute. Rapid fire - 200 rounds per minute with a barrel change every two minutes. Show me a Marine that can move around and fire 3-5 round bursts at over 85 rounds per minute. It will be a picture of a marine missing targets and wasting precious ammo. In short, the KMP added a spare barrel in vain - it is not needed.

Let's take a closer look at the idea of ​​a spare barrel. When does a shooter change barrels? On the attack? It is absurd to think that this is possible. Changes trunks in defense? During the setting of continuous barrage fire, probably? The second problem with the spare stem stems from the fact that the spare stem cannot be set uniformly with the first one along the horizon. The rear sight settings are made on the basis of the zeroing data of the main barrel. No two barrels can be machined with such precision to give exactly the same trajectory. As a result, the spare barrel is brought to normal combat by adjusting the front sight with a wrench vertically. In the horizontal plane, you cannot move the mid-point of impact. If you don't fit in .5 mils (0,5 thousandth) at 36 yards (~33 m), then it will be 6 inches (152 mm) at 300 yards (~274 m). The U.S. Army's Field Manual 23-14, M249 Light Machine Gun in the Automatic Rifle Role states: "When used as a machine gun, it is mounted on a tripod machine, adjustable horizontally and vertically, and supplied with a spare barrel." The indicated problem is further complicated by the semi-movable (semifixed) front sight nest on the M249 trunks. The photographs (not in the archive) show two trunks side by side. Note that barrel "A" on the right has the base of the front sight offset to the right, and barrel "B" is offset to the left. This off-center placement of the base of the front sight caused a noticeable deflection of the bullet holes. Holes marked "A" are shots from barrel "A" and "B" are shots from barrel "B". The marked aiming point is located in the middle.

KMP should overestimate the policy of issuing a spare trunk for the M249. If it is decided to leave the spare trunk in the kit, then all trunks should be inspected to ensure that the bases of the flies are properly centered. A spare barrel is an unnecessary burden for an already overloaded marine. In the role of automatic weapons separation of the spare barrel is not needed.

I am sure that the M249 apologists are fixated on the capabilities of the 249-round tape. I believe that this detail prevents them from seeing a large number of shortcomings of the MXNUMX in the role of AR. Carrying a large amount of ammunition is not an end in itself for us, we need to hit the enemy with the ammunition that we have with us. Here is a quote from the book “My Rifle, the Faith of an American Marine” by retired ILC Major General W.H. no smoke from shots. We know that hits count. We will hit."

Recent comparative field tests of the M249 and Colt AR at the ILC Combat Training Center showed that automatic riflemen hit more targets with less ammunition from the Colt AR than from the M249. Experienced M249 SAW gunners were used for testing at the 36-meter sighting range and the 103rd automatic shooting range. During the tests, it turned out that the Marines were more successful in hitting emerging targets from the Colt AR. On the automatic shooting range, Marines on average missed one or two targets while reloading the Colt AR. SAW gunners missed five targets on average during reloading. All Marines who participated in the tests ended up preferring the Colt AR over the M249 SAW. Shouldn't we listen to these Marines? The numbers speak for themselves.

We have to admit that the SAW is an extremely difficult weapon to master. It's not something you can take and successfully apply right away. Becoming a skilled SAW (automatic rifleman) requires a long learning process. It can be expected that with losses, skillful arrows will run out. Wouldn't it be wiser to adopt automatic weapons that would have characteristics similar to other weapons of the link? The ILC is known for its ability to improvise and think outside the box. However, in regards to SAW, we seem to be ready to go back to what it was before.

My assessment of the M249 SAW is based on my own field experience. How many times have I seen a SAW shooter forced to stop in attack to eliminate delay! The nightmare begins after the feed tray cover is lifted to find out the reason for the delay. Often the tape slips out of the tray and falls into the box. The Marine is in a desperate situation. In addition to finding out the reasons for the delay, he needs to decide what to do with the tape. Do I need to shake this tape out of the box, or is it better to look for a new box? All this time he does not participate in the battle. His weapon does not work, he does not shoot at the enemy and cannot defend himself. His link continues the offensive, and the fire cover that he should provide is missing. So that in such a situation the shooter could at least protect himself, the ILC must equip the shooter with the SAW with the M9 pistol, as the M240 machine gunners are armed.

I do not see the logic in continuing to preserve the M249 system. As a general purpose light machine gun (LMG), it has its merits. However, in the AR role, this is a separation issue. This is a very heavy weapon. It violates the interchangeability of link ammunition, does not work very well with magazines, shoots accurately only from a bipod and is usually carried in “position three” (cartridges on the feed tray, bolt in the forward position, chamber empty, fuse removed) when approaching the enemy - because for the fact that we are not confident in this system.

These problems are compounded by the fact that it is still a very difficult weapon to master. Imagine the advantages of a situation where a rifle squad uses weapons with similar characteristics, with the same ammunition. Imagine the benefits of standardizing the M4, M16A2 and Colt AR. Every Marine, male or female, it doesn't matter, gets to know the Colt M16A2 at the KMB. Having received the Colt AR, which has the same device as the M16A2, he easily retrains from a shooter to an automatic rifleman.

Another issue to consider is optics. KMP switches to riflescopes on a rifle and SAW. It will be two different optical sights - rifle for M16A2 and machine gun for SAW. If SAW remains in service, the KMP will be forced to purchase two different sights for each link. Replacing SAW with Colt AR, we get one type of procurement, reporting, repair and training instead of two.

Recently, I was asked to give a brief presentation to the Infantry Operations Advisory Group (IOAG), made up of current and retired regimental commanders, on the topic of the possibility of replacing a light machine gun (LMG M249) with an automatic rifle (AR) in rifle squads. As a result, the group recommended to the commander of the ILC to replace the M249 SAW with an AR. Clearly, the most convenient and best choice in this case is the Colt AR. If our average SAW skills are insufficient even in ground components, then what about other parts of the amphibious tactical groups where the Marines do not deal with these weapons on a full-time basis? You can state that you need to spend more ammo in order to improve training. You can remove the spare barrel, but in any case, it will be a light machine gun in the role of an automatic rifle, and in this role it will be the Achilles' heel of the rifle squad.

However, the stakes have already been placed. The decision to replace the old M249s in service with infantry battalions with new ones is a reality. Have we lost our chance to make things right? I would recommend suspending further purchases of new M249s. Why would we continue to operate a system that doesn't meet the requirements for an automatic rifleman weapon? I am convinced that the KMP should conduct comparative tests of the M249 SAW with the corresponding AKMoid, as the Soviet Army did. Do we really want the light machine gun to work as an AR? Armchair strategists say I'm too hard on SAW. But experience confirms my assessments.

Let's not let the souls of the dead remind us that if we made the necessary decision and replaced the M249 SAW, we would be more successful and save their lives. М249 continues to be a problem of small office.
Our news channels

Subscribe and stay up to date with the latest news and the most important events of the day.

46 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. mango68
    +3
    30 January 2014 09: 19
    Google Translate?
    1. 0
      30 January 2014 13: 43
      no, google would have screwed nonsense even more abruptly.
  2. +6
    30 January 2014 09: 23
    It is very bad that they abandoned the RPD, thereby depriving the detachment of normal fire support, and the PKK does not dare to call the machine gun the language.
    1. +4
      30 January 2014 09: 37
      The most interesting thing is that in the article, the author offers a return in the link (gender of the department) to the analogue of the PKK
    2. +6
      30 January 2014 09: 47
      Quote: La-5
      It is very bad that they abandoned the RPD

      DS Arms gunsmiths launched the RPD v.2.0 or RPD-Carbine project. The "second version" of the Degtyarev machine gun involved a number of design changes that were designed to modernize the look and functionality of the old machine gun. The receiver and all its insides remained the same - the chosen market orientation did not affect the mechanics in any way. But the native RPD barrel was replaced with a new one. RPD v.2.0 comes with a shorter barrel than the original. Also, the trunk of the "Second version" has a longitudinal finning on the outer surface. It simultaneously improves cooling and facilitates the design with the same shooting parameters. In addition, the RPD-Carbine finally received a full-fledged flame arrester.

      Where big changes have been made to the external "body kit" of the weapon. So, instead of the standard wooden buttstock and pistol grip, RPD v.2.0 is equipped with plastic ones. At the same time, the butt is made telescopic and similar to those that are installed on a number of modern automatic rifles. Another wooden part of the original Degtyarev Light Machine Gun - the handguard - has given way to a modern aluminum unit. According to recent trends in gunsmithing, the fore-end is equipped with two Picatinny rails. By default, the slats are equipped with a collimator sight (top) and a "tactical" handle with a built-in bipod. It is worth paying attention to the change in the place for the sight. On the original RPD, an open sight was located on the front of the receiver cover. For use on rapid-fire weapons, designed to literally pour bullets on the enemy, this was normal. The receiver cover was constantly moving during firing and made it difficult to aim fire, which, however, was compensated by the spread of bullets. For self-loading weapons sold on the market, this was unacceptable. So the guys at DS Arms moved the scope from the receiver cover to the forearm. Yes, due to the transfer and reduction of the length of the barrel, the length of the sighting line has decreased when using an open sight. However, the collimator sighting device from such a transfer did not degrade its quality. As for the front handle, this is not only a tribute to the fashion of recent years. It simultaneously performs two functions. When shooting from hand, it is more convenient for the shooter to hold the RPD-Carbine, and if necessary, he can take out a folding bipod from the middle part of the handle. A kind of universalization of the "body kit" for firing from different positions. Finally, DS Arms has made the ammunition supply of the self-loading rifle a little more convenient. One-piece tape for 100 RPD v.2.0 cartridges is not stored in a metal or plastic container, but in a specially shaped bag sewn from synthetic fabric. In addition to saving weight, this reduced the noise produced by the tape.

      According to the results of all changes, mainly external, the most modern, as it is called, assault weapons came out of the good old RPD.
      http://go-url.ru/dmhj
      1. +15
        30 January 2014 10: 54
        And a little bit of history ...

        Units of the American special forces SOG used an extremely interesting custom in Vietnam.
        Oddly enough, a Soviet RPD machine gun was used for this. Customization consisted in shortening the length of the barrel, or even in a simple "sawed off". Shortening the barrel also made the machine gun lighter, making it maneuverable for jungle warfare.
        After all, the task was simple: crush the enemy with a flurry of fire. To this was added the merits of the ammunition: the Soviet cartridge 7,62x39 mm M43 the enemy had in huge quantities, so it was easy to do with trophies. After all, the special forces in the sorties on the rear did not drop cartridges from the plane.
        According to the opinions of the soldiers themselves, the RPD, in addition to the slaughter, also possessed such high accuracy that "you could knock out your own initials."http://go-url.ru/dmhj

        As we see, the Americans without their NORMAL light machine gun did not disdain the use of RPD ...
        1. +3
          30 January 2014 14: 37
          Found a couple of photos.
          Apparently from the same source. wink



        2. vanaheym
          0
          3 February 2014 16: 18
          Actually, SOG made excellent use of this:
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. +3
      30 January 2014 09: 52
      The ILC can learn from the Soviet Army, which in the early eighties decided to get rid of the 7,62mm belt-fed RPDs in its rifle platoons and replace them with the Soviet RPK AR. RPK is the same AK rifle with a longer and heavier barrel, a bipod attached to the barrel, a slightly modified butt (for automatic fire from a prone position) and an increased-capacity sector magazine. The Soviet people understood the problems that arose in the belt-fed compartment and got rid of them by returning to the basic concept of an automatic rifle. If you don't understand why they did this, ask any infantryman, veteran of combat operations. His response will be something like this: “Tapes are too much weight and too much trouble. That's why".

      The Soviets thought of this and made the right conclusion. I am afraid that we will need to incur senseless losses in various situations, so that it can be understood that the light machine gun is not suitable as an automatic rifle.
    5. avt
      0
      30 January 2014 11: 53
      Quote: La-5
      It’s very bad that they abandoned the RPD, thereby depriving the department of normal fire support,

      With all due respect to the excellent design of the RPD, shooting from it is just a pleasure, I completely agree with the opinion of the amer expressed in the article - the ILC can learn from the Soviet Army, which in the early eighties decided to get rid of the 7,62 mm tape-fed RPD in its rifle platoons and replace them with the Soviet AR RPK. RPK is the same AK rifle with a longer and heavier barrel, a bipod attached to the barrel, a slightly modified butt (for automatic fire from a prone position) and an increased-capacity sector magazine. The Soviet people understood the problems that arose in the belt-fed compartment and got rid of them by returning to the basic concept of an automatic rifle. If you don't understand why they did this, ask any infantryman, veteran of combat operations. His response will be something like this: “Ribbons are too much weight and too much trouble. That's why"."
      Quote: La-5
      and the PKK call the machine gun the language does not turn.

      mind you, he doesn’t call him a machine gun, but he definitely needs a drum for the PKK - the horn is obviously small. And there is no reason to put a tape less than 7,62x54.
      1. +2
        30 January 2014 12: 52
        The point is not so much in the tape, but in the automation system. RPK shoots with a closed shutter, which increases accuracy (not a very significant factor for a machine gun), but also significantly increase barrel heat. The conclusion of the PKK is not able to effectively suppress infantry (the main purpose of the machine gun) due to rapid overheating, the PKK is a heavy assault rifle.
    6. 0
      13 February 2014 01: 08
      Quote: La-5
      It is very bad that they abandoned the RPD, thereby depriving the detachment of normal fire support, and the PKK does not dare to call the machine gun the language.


      “I recalled such a stroke. Before going out to fire from the RPD, soldiers, sergeants and officers very carefully wiped the tape and cartridges from dust. Degtyarev’s light machine gun, for all its merits, was very afraid of working in dusty conditions. the dust settling on the sample, on the equipped belt, as when conducting automatic fire, delays followed.Such a weakness of the machine gun could not be eliminated during refinement, which reduced the reliability of the weapon.
      But, apparently, Degtyarev's authority also strongly dominated those who tested, recommended his products for adoption, and they turned a blind eye to a not-so-small flaw. Meanwhile, during intense shooting, especially in Central Asian conditions, which the commanders of units and subunits repeatedly told me about, which I myself was convinced more than once, the rubbing parts of the RPD quickly lost their calculated clearances. Dust during friction, like rust, corroded the metal. Particularly vulnerable were the parts that provided power to the machine gun, the operation of automation.
      When designing and developing a weapon, the designer has no right to be deceived by the results achieved during tests in the factory, at the training ground and even in the troops, no matter how satisfying they may bring. My principle: when developing samples, do not proceed from the results of two-week and monthly tests, but think about how the weapon will behave during long-term operation in the army, whether it will have enough reliability and survivability when used in rain and snow, in frost and heat, in the mountains and the desert, after blows and falls. I have no doubt that Degtyarev was also thinking about improving the reliability of the light machine gun. But he still failed to bring the product to the best conditions, counting on long-term military operation. And in the fact that in the late 50s and early 60s the RPD was replaced with a more tenacious model, the factor of its insufficient reliability in dusty conditions played an important role.

      (c) M.T. Kalashnikov "Notes of the gunsmith designer"
  3. +1
    30 January 2014 09: 48
    Song! The Cardenes read overnight.
  4. MAG
    +3
    30 January 2014 11: 21
    We had RPKs with very good accuracy due to the long barrel, but there were no drum magazines, which would give a longer fire, and with a 45 magazine it’s just AK. And the American’s thought is correct - they tried to take 2 PCs into the group (the caliber is larger but the problems are similar), but this is such a “smut” with ammunition, in addition to machine gunners and assistants, 2 more fighters had to take ribbons and they were already loaded. One exit was enough and everything returned to the old.
    1. Svyatoslavovich
      +1
      30 January 2014 11: 56
      Dear MAG, in my RPK it is equipped with both 40-cartridge sector magazines and a drum magazine (snail) for 75 rounds, and the RPK-45 74-cartridge magazine, is it about it?
      1. MAG
        0
        30 January 2014 14: 13
        I apologize the thought was already about the drum at 75 from there and the number 5 crept in))
  5. 0
    30 January 2014 11: 28
    Interesting thoughts come to these star-striped heads - and here's another one - a spare barrel. Not shot. As if in a machine gun there is nothing more to fail.
  6. +1
    30 January 2014 12: 16
    I also liked the PKK. Good, reliable weapons. Even the fact that the store was raising the line of fire from below was not only negative (high visibility of the shooter), but also had a positive effect in the summer — less dust rose. Ammo can be taken more.
  7. +2
    30 January 2014 12: 43
    Thanks for the article to the resource and for the comments to colleagues! ..
    Firstly, I have been looking for (waiting) for a detailed review on the M249 resource for a long time. Earlier I heard unpleasant responses of "amerovskie" warriors about M60 (conditionally: "with which only Rambo can fight" ...), then about its predecessor - M240. It turns out that the 249th is not a gift ...
    Secondly, comrade Korsar - special thanks for the material on "RPD version 2"! The question is, if someone had to use a new RPD-ku, share your impressions and thoughts, please! ..
    Thirdly, in my opinion, an old RPK with a drum is also not bad. And as an option, the AKM with the RPK drum also steers (the main thing is not to overheat the barrel - shoot competently). As for possible improvements in body kits, "everything is in our hands."
    1. avt
      0
      30 January 2014 13: 31
      Quote: Scary ensign
      In my opinion, an old RPK with a drum is also not bad.

      And also optics on it and in general - the luxury version.
      1. +7
        30 January 2014 14: 42
        Lord, when will all these lovers of "tuning" in the style of Rimbaud calm down. Well, the "optics" does not roll on something constantly twitching. RPK is a LIGHT MACHINE GUN, not an easel and not a rifle. When they understand it. Optics in combat conditions-gov ... oh. She gets confused and dirty and try to wipe it when there is dirt and so on. When there is fleeting fire resistance, when you need to constantly be on the move, change position, then there is no time to mess with optics! But how to aim at it when the weapon is constantly twitching when firing? The optics are good on a rifle-sight-shot, sight-shot, and then not on any, or on a stationary, rigidly fixed machine gun, but not at all on a quick-fire hand weapon.
        1. avt
          0
          30 January 2014 15: 13
          Quote: Monster_Fat
          . Optics in combat conditions ... oh. It goes astray and becomes dirty and try to wipe it when there is dirt and so on.

          I agree, but it's still good when there is such an opportunity, well, not a sniper one.
          Quote: Monster_Fat
          "Kalash" with a disc will not roll.

          Here, perhaps, only for the cinema - it looks beautiful, nothing more.
          1. +2
            30 January 2014 15: 21
            Well, to be fair, it should be noted that disk magazines were used "in full" in the Second World War: "Suomi", PPD, PPSh, "Thomson", etc., and nothing. However, no one canceled the above shortcomings, and at the end of the war they began to be gradually replaced by carob ones. And as for the optics ... well, you shoot at the enemy, change the position "by rolling, so what? Firstly: the high sight interferes, and secondly: you hit him when you rolled and - knocked him down or splattered with mud. And where are you after that from the machine gun with such a scope you will hit?
            1. avt
              +1
              30 January 2014 16: 28
              Quote: Monster_Fat
              Well, to be fair, it should be noted that disk magazines were used "in full" in the Second World War: "Suomi", PPD, PPSh, "Thomson", etc. and nothing. However, no one canceled the aforementioned shortcomings, and at the end of the war they began to be gradually replaced by carob ones.

              Well, once again they confirmed their own idea that it was unsuitable to hang a drum on an automatic rifle and a rifle, while the domestic one showed practically the same thing -
              Quote: Monster_Fat
              Firstly: the ergonomics of the weapon is violated - it is really inconvenient to carry it, especially when crawling. Secondly: the drum is unreliable and it really takes a long time to stuff it, and you can't put it in a pouch, in unloading on your belly, again, how to crawl with such a "kenguryatnik".

              In terms of optics on a machine gun, you are right, but again, being able to put it on and put it on without fail are two big differences. Well, let there be a bar for fasteners, and the rest is at the discretion of the user, let him decide whether he needs it or not and what to attach. A collimator or some kind of night light if necessary, or suddenly you really need optics. By the way, I remember when the Angles adopted the rolls on their rifle, modified by Heckler Koch, and on its base there was an optic, not a sniper, but quite a diopter. If you haven’t beguiled for years. Or was it already immediately put a collimator? It seems not.
              1. +1
                30 January 2014 17: 45
                If you mean SA80, then there was an optical SUSAT. On new modifications is also an optical ACOG.
        2. -1
          31 January 2014 02: 34
          Everyone uses optics, but only you have far-fetched problems about dirt
        3. vanaheym
          0
          4 February 2014 16: 43
          The Chechens used the RPK with optics quite effectively as an ersatz sniper rifle when shooting single.
    2. +5
      30 January 2014 14: 08
      "Kalash" with a disk will not roll. Tried. Firstly: the ergonomics of the weapon is violated - it is really inconvenient to carry it, especially when you crawl. Secondly: the drum is unreliable and it takes a really long time to stuff it, and you can’t put it in the pouch, into the unloading on the belly, again, how to crawl with such a “kenguryatnik”. Thirdly: there is no point - "Kalash" quickly overheats if you thresh from it "from the belly". But the RPK with a heavy barrel is another matter, our guys often took it instead of the "Kalash", but again, not all, but "amateurs". In general, there is no need to invent something there for each type of weapon in the unit - its place and no need for experiments - trying to replace one weapon with another, everything has long been worked out.
    3. 0
      31 January 2014 02: 31
      Che you all mixed up. The predecessor of the M240 is just the M60, and not vice versa
  8. jar.zoom
    +3
    30 January 2014 13: 16
    But in my opinion, it's just blah blah blah. The reliability of the m-249 does not suit them, that's all the fuss because of this. Problems with sharing cartridges from the store, smiled from the tape. they carry cartridges in packs. And they manually equip tapes to the PC, I haven’t seen stuffing machines in my eyes. And the Americans seem to have forgotten how to equip stores. Regarding the RPD-RPK. Preferences can be different. The RPK is lighter, the cartridges are the same as in the machine gun, but it’s still not a machine gun. It’s necessary to select the composition of weapons correctly in each case and there will be no problems. But a machine gun in the department is still needed. something else is unknown, the Ministry of Defense does not bother with this at all. Either they have nanotechnologies, or they change their uniforms, or drones. And the fighters themselves get out as best they can. Due to the fact that the level of training is not high, usually improvisation is not very.
  9. avt
    +2
    30 January 2014 13: 29
    Quote from: jar.zoom
    .RPD more precisely, more powerful, but the cartridges are different, RPK-lighter, cartridges as in the machine,

    request It's like different cartridges in the RPK and RPD ??????? I missed something in life and 7,62 x 39 was not common for them !? laughing Or is it about something else? Of course, in view of the withdrawal from service, the RPD under 5,45x39 was not.
    1. +1
      30 January 2014 13: 43
      Yeah-yeah ... 7,62 x 39 is a common caliber for RPD and RPK. There was no talk of "74" ...
  10. jar.zoom
    +1
    30 January 2014 14: 23
    Meant, of course, RPK-74, because in the army the standard cartridge for today is -5,45.
  11. +3
    30 January 2014 14: 37
    If the PKK is not a machine gun, then what were Bren, Vickers, and RPDs? RPK 7,62 did not have to be tested, and RPK-74 is a good machine: it is light enough, stable and reliable, and the unification of power with the AK-74 ensures effective use in terms of providing ammunition and the possibility of using automatic stores.
    1. anomalocaris
      0
      1 February 2014 04: 44
      With all due respect, the RPK of any modification is not a full-fledged machine gun. This is really just a weighted machine gun, more adapted to firing in short bursts. The models you listed (although I didn’t understand what kind of Vickers you meant?) were originally created precisely as machine guns. They were originally designed for conducting dense continuous fire and have the appropriate design features.
  12. +1
    30 January 2014 15: 12
    Mdaaaa. Coolly stated...
    I wonder how to understand "the use of a light machine gun to perform the functions of an automatic rifle"?

    Problems with delays and the difficulty of using magazines from eMki? - send complaints to the manufacturer, finalize the design + improve training of personnel.

    Less accuracy - improve the preparation of the composition.
    The difficulties of using other fighters, well, what can I say, ordinary infantrymen are unlikely to replace a tanker or artilleryman, therefore it is logical to replace tanks and guns with familiar EMCs. The question is, how many machine gunners can effectively use PKM, SVD, AGS, etc. ???

    Muddled with ammunition? - make the boxes different to the touch. In the comments to the original article, one marine suggested an even more elegant solution))) "If the company gunny can't find the right ammo at night get him a damn set of NVG's or a freaking flash light." which, in a simplified translation, "if the machine gunner cannot find the right ammunition in the dark, give him a night vision device or .... a bath flashlight"
    1. +1
      30 January 2014 15: 53
      use
      We forget the Russian language a little, yes ??? Only 8 months, and along with the skill of washing floors and peeling potatoes, I learned to shoot from everything that was stored in the CWC, as well as to perform an incomplete disassembly with the elimination of basic malfunctions.
      Ammunition confusion? - make the boxes different to the touch.
      Loose metal tapes are much easier to handle, you can’t confuse the cartridge with equipment ...
  13. +3
    30 January 2014 20: 31
    The design of the Colt revolver was based on the principle of minimum parts, maximum reliability, thanks to which he received well-deserved popularity. The complex designs of American assault rifles and machine guns did not improve their consumer qualities and led to a general decrease in the reliability of small arms. problems began with cartridges. The lack of an automatic mode on a rifle is not just like that, obviously not at the request of the US military. -and the end result - the reliability of the weapon - is not achieved.
  14. uhjpysq1
    -4
    30 January 2014 21: 21
    only a tape machine gun! lying to America and reworking Vietnam is proof of that. the tape is not much heavier in weight than the store. 100 bullets without stopping are cooler than 40 or 45. pkm of course it’s heavy. rpd the very thing. rpk either.
  15. +3
    30 January 2014 22: 20
    The US Army soldier is absolutely right. No need to shake the air with a roar, you need to hit. And they always fall from what is more convenient, lighter and more mobile. Standard and compact magazines are trouble-free (I'm talking about the AK family), there are also new models with increased capacity. But they work on the same principle. It is better to release 4 magazines without fail than to catch a wedge on 15 shots. Miracles don't happen. And the laws of physics confirm this. I really liked RPCs at the time. It is more accurate and hits further than just a machine gun. You can put the optics from a sniper for a while (this is due to pull) ...
    1. 0
      31 January 2014 01: 24
      Somehow, in my youth, I "clung" PSO from SVD to AKn-74: utter nonsense .... Isn't it just as convenient on the PKK as on the SVD? But what about the difference in the flight path of a bullet 7,62x39 and 7,62x54? To calibrate the sight for one, strictly defined range? What's the point? Still, probably, the occupation is trying to improve what is brought to perfection by the designer - this is either from misunderstanding (to put it mildly) or from nothing to do ....
      1. 0
        15 February 2014 00: 12
        In theory, at a distance of up to 400m, the trajectory of the bullets is almost the same, but the ballistics of the 5,45x39 cartridge is capricious (due to the mass and shape of the bullet), so this distance is enough. PSO (4x) you shoot at a distance of 100m on the central mark. SVD has only a single mode, and the shooting from the AK-74M is more intense and less accurate, i.e. when aiming, you set the lead intuitively and there are no problems with the use of optics, the targets being hit are more clearly visible, without any shooting at random. In short, everything depends on experience (and training ground too) and skills come with it. By the way, it is strange that the Izhevsk people did not try (for 60 years) to lengthen the barrel on the AK (except for the case with the RPK), say from 415 to 460-480 mm, which would have a better effect on accuracy and accuracy, incl. a slightly lower return, probably the famous designer himself did not even allow to think about it.
        1. 0
          15 February 2014 08: 14
          Accuracy by single 600 meters for

          AK-74 0,24x012 (0,0288)
          PC-74 0.18x0,18 (0,324)

          that is, the AK in terms of area accuracy is even slightly better.

          Shooting in bursts is given for the supine position and the bipod; here the understandable thing is the difference is larger, but not significant 0,36x0,48 versus 0,3x0,3.

          Quote: kplayer
          probably the famous designer himself did not even allow to think about it.


          and keep your assumptions with you.
          1. -1
            15 February 2014 16: 31
            Quote: bunta
            Accuracy by single 600 meters for

            AK-74 0,24x012 (0,0288)
            PC-74 0.18x0,18 (0,324)

            that is, the AK in terms of area accuracy is even slightly better.

            And here the accuracy when shooting at a weight with hands, the RPK is harder to keep (advantage in use from the bipod)

            Shooting in bursts is given for the supine position and the bipod; here the understandable thing is the difference is larger, but not significant 0,36x0,48 versus 0,3x0,3.

            This is for you the accuracy indicators are insignificant, I am sure they are also "insignificant" when comparing AK-74 and AK-105.
            In short, the 590mm (544mm of the rifled part) of the PKK barrel "flew into the pipe" (I draw a conclusion for you).

            and keep your assumptions with you.

            What the hell are assumptions !? no and there were no serial ones and it’s enough for me. I am sure that accuracy and feedback are also insignificant and unimportant for you, and your post is stupid.
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. The comment was deleted.
            3. The comment was deleted.
            4. The comment was deleted.
            5. The comment was deleted.
          2. The comment was deleted.
      2. The comment was deleted.
    2. uhjpysq1
      0
      31 January 2014 17: 04
      ) I didn’t wedge the PCM even after the 150th)
    3. anomalocaris
      0
      1 February 2014 04: 53
      But the real facts refute it. In real combat operations, even experienced fighters, in the overwhelming majority of cases, usually fire in the “wrong direction”. It is somewhat difficult to simply conduct aimed fire at a constantly moving and periodically hiding target, while also actively moving. In many ways, this was the reason for the transition from the M-14 to the M-16.
  16. 0
    31 January 2014 11: 57
    Quote: uhjpysq1
    rpd most that.rpk neither this nor that.

    It would be nice to have a universal modification of the PKK, with the ability to power both from the store, adjacent to the side, and from the tape.
    1. uhjpysq1
      0
      31 January 2014 17: 03
      this will not complicate the design, add weight and reduce reliability.
      1. anomalocaris
        0
        1 February 2014 04: 55
        I will add. Personally, I am not aware of any more or less reliable dual-power system. I suspect that the creation of such a principle is not possible in principle, because they have too different kinematics and dynamics.
  17. 0
    3 February 2014 07: 27
    Here is an interesting option, with the necessary refinement, why not?
  18. Sledgehammer
    0
    4 February 2014 01: 15
    Everything is correctly said. If you have a light machine gun in the compartment, then it is mandatory for ammunition
    which is used in assault rifles, and ideally with high unification in design with it.
  19. 0
    5 February 2014 22: 07
    The article was clearly written by a lobbyist for the Colt company, which is nonsense! Marines are such nerds that they put the gas regulator in the position of 1000 rpm instead of 700 rpm, and until recently they did not even include a spare barrel in the equipment, and if they took it with them, it was not shot, and this is as important as shot optics (ACOG/ELCAN). The far-fetched problem with the supply of ammunition, the equipped tape (advantage of the M249 SAW) turns out to be bad, as if magazines (30 rounds) for rifles / machine guns do not need to be manually equipped and they come already completed and even paired. The skew of cartridges during magazine feeding is the same phenomenon for both rifles and machine guns when firing in bursts, when there are less than half of the cartridges in the magazine (a design flaw (spring) of the early M16 plastic magazines, which also affected the SA80 A1 weapons from the British).
    The comparative tests were clearly conducted among recruits in Marine Corps schools, not in regular MP bases / camps. And the author pretended not to know that all the Marines are armed with M9 pistols ("Beretta" M92F), and not only the operators of the 7,62mm single M240 machine guns (MAG)
    The feeling that the Israeli army was also "thrown" by the IMI company, armed with belt-fed "Negev" light machine guns and a replaceable barrel.

    There are "seasoned" (in watching militants and demonstration performances of special forces) are so playful that in full gear and in the NIB kit (vest and helmet) they can fight with the RPK-74 in their hands, with the bipod thrown back and a 45-round magazine, with At the same time, moving by "rolling" and pouring hail on the enemy, apparently, homing bullets, deciding that the optics of small magnification (1,5x-4x) to increase the effectiveness of shooting, and actually aimed shooting, they do not need, forgetting that, in general, the main task of the machine gunner fire support of comrades, in addition, optics improve the visibility of the battlefield. LOL from the last century!

    He would fight for the resuscitation and modernization of the RPD, at least for the army special forces.
  20. 0
    14 February 2014 00: 47
    The reason for the transition from the RPD to the PKK is simple, the Soviet army was a multi-million dollar structure and equipping all rifle and not only rifle divisions with RPD machine guns (since 1944) with tape power was obviously very unprofitable for a huge army.
    The Americans, first in Korea, and then in Vietnam, in the impenetrable jungle, faced avalanche-like attacks by enemy infantry, and in the case of Korea, at the final stage of the war, the Chinese PLA took a direct part in the hostilities, while Soviet motorized riflemen, even after the events on Damansky, had a similar experience was not (they worked out the Grad MLRS), hence the preference of the Americans for belt feed for light machine guns, in addition, it was during this period that they began to put machine guns with rotating blocks of Minigun-type barrels on helicopters.

    By the way, PK / PKM does not have a very reliable tape feed due to the used outdated flange cartridge 7,62x54R. Maybe in this regard, we will finalize it and also transfer it to store food? and then we will come up with some excuses like "now it has become better, more convenient and simpler" with all the power of the machine gun preserved.
    1. +1
      14 February 2014 02: 05
      Quote: kplayer
      Maybe in this regard, we will finalize it and also transfer it to store food? and then we will come up with some excuses like "now it has become better, more convenient and simpler" with all the power of the machine gun preserved.

      Alexander, but you understand who will bother with this, this cartridge 7,62 × 54 mm R (7,62x54, 7,62x54R, 7,62x54R Russian) appeared in 1891. It was adopted as ammunition for the Mosin three-line rifle. Russian rifle cartridge, with a sleeve measuring 7,62 × 53,72 mm, an overall maximum cartridge length of 77,16 mm, a bullet diameter of 7,92 mm and an energy of 4416 joules. It is one of the oldest rifle cartridges in modern times and probably the oldest cartridge still in common use. The only equally widely used cartridge of similar dimensions at present is only the 7,62 × 51 mm NATO cartridge. These cartridges are still used in the army, but not for firing from the latest automatic rifles, but as ammunition for PK, PKM machine guns and SVD, SVD-S, SVU sniper rifles, and you are talking about modern requirements, you have no idea how much this good in warehouses!
      A military secret! bully feel Here are the NATO ones. hiAnd the thought is worth the discussion, go find the flange now in the world what Write an article Alexander! fellow
      1. 0
        14 February 2014 22: 31
        Nikoha.2010
        You have not understood the meaning of irony. The essence of the paragraph above is "RPD - RPK" and their advantages and disadvantages discussed by the people based on the methods of powering machine guns. Anyway.
      2. The comment was deleted.

"Right Sector" (banned in Russia), "Ukrainian Insurgent Army" (UPA) (banned in Russia), ISIS (banned in Russia), "Jabhat Fatah al-Sham" formerly "Jabhat al-Nusra" (banned in Russia) , Taliban (banned in Russia), Al-Qaeda (banned in Russia), Anti-Corruption Foundation (banned in Russia), Navalny Headquarters (banned in Russia), Facebook (banned in Russia), Instagram (banned in Russia), Meta (banned in Russia), Misanthropic Division (banned in Russia), Azov (banned in Russia), Muslim Brotherhood (banned in Russia), Aum Shinrikyo (banned in Russia), AUE (banned in Russia), UNA-UNSO (banned in Russia), Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar people (banned in Russia), Legion “Freedom of Russia” (armed formation, recognized as terrorist in the Russian Federation and banned), Kirill Budanov (included to the Rosfinmonitoring list of terrorists and extremists)

“Non-profit organizations, unregistered public associations or individuals performing the functions of a foreign agent,” as well as media outlets performing the functions of a foreign agent: “Medusa”; "Voice of America"; "Realities"; "Present time"; "Radio Freedom"; Ponomarev Lev; Ponomarev Ilya; Savitskaya; Markelov; Kamalyagin; Apakhonchich; Makarevich; Dud; Gordon; Zhdanov; Medvedev; Fedorov; Mikhail Kasyanov; "Owl"; "Alliance of Doctors"; "RKK" "Levada Center"; "Memorial"; "Voice"; "Person and law"; "Rain"; "Mediazone"; "Deutsche Welle"; QMS "Caucasian Knot"; "Insider"; "New Newspaper"