Military Review

"To know what is happening in orbit"

28
“With a view to organizing interplanetary expeditions, now there is talk of developing a super-heavy carrier,” said Alexander Zheleznyakov, academician of the Russian Academy of Cosmonautics named after Tsiolkovsky, to the VIEW newspaper. He commented on the plans of Roscosmos for further space expansion.




The head of Roscosmos, Oleg Ostapenko, on Tuesday at the “Royal Readings” at the Moscow State Technical University named after Bauman, announced the creation of a super-heavy space rocket capable of putting a payload in excess of 160 tons into orbit.

He also spoke about the plans of the department by the 2020 year to create a domestic observatory with ultra-sensitive equipment for the study of astrophysical objects in the X-ray, infrared and other ranges.

“In the coming years, in addition to this, we are completing work on the creation of cheap small-sized spacecraft for scientific research,” he added.

“We also pay attention to the creation of spacecraft with target equipment based on upgraded platforms and the future transition to orbital tracking of space debris, which is in orbit a lot,” said ITAR-TASS, head of Roscosmos.

In turn, the head of the Russian Emergencies Ministry Vladimir Puchkov said that Russia and the United States are planning to jointly create a system of protection against asteroid-comet hazard.

“Last year, the fall of the Chelyabinsk meteorite showed that threats from space can be real and no less destructive than, say, large fires or natural disasters,” he explained.

The head of RSC Energia, Vitaly Lopota, expressed the opinion that by the year 2025 it is necessary to leave the ISS as the “visited port” of the Earth. He is confident that “space cannot be mastered by autonomous missions, station space exploration is necessary”.

And to warn earthlings about comet-asteroid danger, according to him, the placement of monitoring space vehicles at Lagrange points could be (at these points space vehicles will remain stationary relative to the Earth-Moon system).

The most interesting theses of those who spoke at the “Royal Readings”, the newspaper VIEW, asked Alexander Zheleznyakov, Academician of the Tsiolkovsky Russian Academy of Cosmonautics, to comment.

VIEW: Alexander Borisovich, speaking at the "Royal Readings", the head of Roscosmos Oleg Ostapenko talked about the creation of spacecraft for the orbital tracking of space debris. What is this about?

Alexander Zheleznyakov: There really is a need for this. And in Roscosmos understand this. Similar systems have also begun to be developed in the United States and Canada. And just yesterday, the same was announced at the Japanese space agency JAXA. The problem of space debris in recent years has really become very acute. It has already been recorded several incidents in orbit. In order for this not to happen again, in order to protect the spacecraft operating there, you need to know what is happening in orbit and conduct continuous monitoring. If there is a real threat of collision with debris, the trajectories of spacecraft can be corrected. In the future, the problem of cleaning space debris from near-Earth space will become even more serious.

VIEW: Recently it was said about the construction by Japanese specialists of a special network for space debris. Speech about her?

A. J .: No The network is just one of the semi-fantastic ideas. And in the Japanese space agency JAXA yesterday announced the beginning of the development of spacecraft using military technology, which will help track the movement of debris from old rockets and other debris in near-earth orbit. The network is, so to speak, a very distant future technology. At the moment, using a similar project, the near-earth orbit cannot be cleared.

VIEW: The head of Roscosmos also spoke today about the prospects of creating "cheap small-sized spacecraft" for scientific research. Now are mostly expensive and slow?

A.J .: We are talking about the need to optimize the capabilities of spacecraft and carriers for bringing them into space, both in price and in terms of mass and dimensions. Those satellites that are being created now are not that cumbersome ... They just often turn out to be so cumbersome that they require very powerful rockets to launch them into orbit. Accordingly, the cost of their launching into space becomes very high. To reduce it now - and this trend is typical for the whole world - specialists are striving to reduce the overall and weight dimensions of spacecraft, while maintaining their previous functionality. Modern technologies allow to do this. The production of such devices is much cheaper and, by the way, much faster than the creation of large spacecraft. Roscosmos understands this.

VIEW: The head of Roskosmos announced the creation of a super-heavy space rocket capable of launching a cargo weighing more than 160 tons into orbit. Why such a figure?

A.J .: This is the weight that is intended, or rather, is necessary for the implementation of manned expeditions to the moon and other planets. It has already become clear that, for example, a large spacecraft is required to send people to Mars. And the only way out here, as it seems to me, is to assemble this spacecraft somewhere already in space, in near-earth orbit, or in near-moon. For the delivery of individual elements of this ship will still have to make a certain number of launches. And, if the rocket is not very high, a very large number of such launches will be required. And when rockets immediately bring large objects into orbit, it becomes easier to assemble the spacecraft. With a view just to the organization of interplanetary expeditions, now there is talk in Russia - in Roscosmos, in the rocket and space industry - on the development of super-heavy media. Its specific parameters are still under discussion, including payload. The numbers are called in 70, in 100, and in 160 tons. No decisions have been made on this matter yet. But Ostapenko promised that in the near future the main parameters of this carrier will be determined. Also determine the time frame in which it will be created, and the company that will be engaged in its development.

VIEW: The Head of EMERCOM of Russia Vladimir Puchkov spoke today about the creation, together with the Americans, of a system of protection against asteroids and comets. How necessary is it now? And does it make sense to cooperate with the Americans?

A. J .: Alone, developing such a system is simply pointless. These are very complex technical measures and very expensive. Make it any one country is simply impossible. Recall at least those attempts that are being undertaken by the United States to create an anti-missile defense system ... If we compare these two systems: anti-missile and anti-asteroid, the difference in complexity of the latter is two orders higher, no less. That is, the billions that Americans are now investing in rockets is just a drop in the ocean compared to the trillions that need to be invested in creating an asteroid-like system.

VIEW: Is it even necessary in this case?

A.J.: To begin with, we need to create an outer space monitoring system in order to detect such dangerous objects in time. But it is too early to deploy a system that could, using, say, missiles with nuclear warheads, destroy flying objects, for example. Here it is necessary to compare the cost of developing this system with the probability, calculated by experts, that an asteroid that can cause a global catastrophe will fall on our planet. I am sure that this risk is minimal. And in the next thousand years this will not happen exactly. At the same time, smaller objects can fall to the Earth, and they can cause some damage. But it will still be a regional damage, not a global one. And in this case, if with the help of monitoring we know about the approach of such dangerous objects to Earth, we can, for example, carry out evacuation in some areas that are under attack.

VIEW: The damage from the Chelyabinsk meteorite could be minimized?

A.J .: If we talk about small-sized bodies like the Chelyabinsk meteorite, believe that with existing technical means and even those that will be created in the next 10 – 20 – 30 years, we will not be able to detect in advance such a “small stone” as this the object is on a cosmic scale. Therefore, the main thing now is to track those objects that may lead to precisely some significant consequences. And the creation of huge rockets in order to shoot them down, probably, we will already leave to future generations if they need it.

VIEW: The head of RSC Energia, Vitaly Lopota, said today that the ISS should be left as “the visited port near the Earth”. In his opinion, further space exploration without stations is unproductive. How do you think?

A. J .: I think that a similar station is needed. The ISS, in addition to being the outpost of mankind in space, also has a fairly large future. After all, it can be considered not only as a scientific laboratory or a testing ground for testing new technologies, but also, for example, as a base for creating the same interplanetary ships as a production platform for the production of some parts and nodes for them. Imagine that a similar orbital station, even if it is not located so low above the Earth as it is now, even if it is in a selenocentric orbit, it could become an assembly workshop to prepare for the launch of a manned expedition to Mars. Make it there will be much easier than collecting such a ship on Earth.

You do not need to give up the base on the moon. They must exist together. Because it is much less profitable to assemble the same interplanetary spacecraft on the surface of the Moon than anywhere else in orbit. But to use the scientific base on the moon to work out the astronauts' exit to the surface of Mars is quite correct.
Originator:
http://vz.ru/society/2014/1/28/669965.html
28 comments
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  1. ele1285
    ele1285 29 January 2014 07: 36
    +1
    Well, where is Makarov? He always seems to write wisely
    1. makarov
      makarov 29 January 2014 07: 46
      +6
      Yes, I'm alive, alive.
      Thank you for your kind word and appreciation of my work ... hi
      1. Same lech
        Same lech 29 January 2014 07: 50
        +1
        smile Join hi - how are things in space ??
        1. makarov
          makarov 29 January 2014 08: 10
          +6
          "- how are things in space ??"
          This question must be redirected to the former mayor of Kiev-Chernovetskiy, people do not call him other than "Lenya Kosmonavt".
          And I "communicate with space" only when I am happy to eat homemade sausage indulging in gluttony. The first hog has already been eaten, next in line - in early February, there will be a second. That's when I'll tell you "news from space". laughing
    2. Civil
      Civil 29 January 2014 07: 50
      +5
      All this dullness is tired of what Russia wants to do in space, intelligible tasks are needed, for example:
      1. The first to get to Mars.
      2. The first to build a base on the moon and dictate your vision of democracy with missiles mounted on it.
      3. Make satellite launches cheap and massive to chop cabbage on cosmotourism on an industrial scale, with hotels.
      4. Try to populate the surrounding planets with the simplest forms of life.

      no specifics, then a wide field for cutting.
      1. Name
        Name 29 January 2014 07: 58
        +7
        Quote: Civil
        2. The first to build a base on the moon and dictate your vision of democracy with missiles mounted on it.

        That's it to the point! good
    3. Canep
      Canep 29 January 2014 07: 56
      +2
      The head of Roscosmos, Oleg Ostapenko, on Tuesday at the “Royal Readings” at the Moscow State Technical University named after Bauman, announced the creation of a super-heavy space rocket capable of putting a payload in excess of 160 tons into orbit.
      Before starting a new cut of the dough, isn't it better to complete the long-term construction of "ANGARA", the competition took place already in 1992 and was won in 1994. From wikipedia:
      The first launch of the Angara launch vehicle was planned from the Plesetsk Cosmodrome for 2005. [13] But then it was postponed many times: to 2011, to 2012, [14], 2013, [15] and now to 2014. [16] This is currently the ninth transfer of the first launch of the launch vehicle. [And

      For comparison, work on the R-7 began in the 50th, and in the 57th with its help a satellite was launched, in 1961 Gagarin flew. And note this from ZERO! without any experience. If we were moving at the Soviet pace, then the question would have already arisen that the "Angara" is outdated and requires modernization.
      1. Asgard
        Asgard 29 January 2014 08: 44
        +4
        As for the "Angara", everything is still vague and unpromising ...
        The Russian Federation cannot bring the rocket to mind and there are rumors (confirmed)) that everything is very bad with the rocket.

        Wait the whole world is a PROJECT ...
        If the anti-missile system can still be built, with the potential of "free science" as in the USSR (by example))) then against the asteroid hazard, only unfounded projects, the whole of Mankind does not have SUCH ENERGIES ... (there is a commission on pseudo-science)) and the SCIENCE is a complete lie ...
        The RAS has essentially been reformed - to death .....
        in Aviation - "pogosyanschina"))))
        One hope .... for scientific companies))))))))) And this state is presented as a serious "success" ....

        There is such a belt, VAN ALENA, at a distance of 20 thousand km the radiation is so destructive that the protein form of life (a person)) will surely die ....
        and the moon is at a distance of 300 thousand km, so it’s not clear how 3.14ndos visited there, with existing technologies it’s nonsense ......
        In the opinion of the ENGINEER

        While we look at the Chebarkul meteorite-like a Miracle (wonderful)) and the explanations in the media are becoming more wonderful (look childish)) AND BELIEVE))))))))
        Well, we were told a "fairy tale" that the Jews invented iron, after mankind mastered alloys (Bronze Age))) .........., and this technology is ONLY a forge with furs (like iron)) ))
        no longer do .....

        Alas, WE are still AND, D, AND, O, T, Y .....)))))WHAT SPACE? What are the heavy missiles, the most successful rocket engine is a kerosene created \ in 50 years))))
        Neither heptyl, nor hydrogen and solid propellant-surpassed the development created by the QUEEN ???????? !!!!!!!))))))))))))))))))
  2. Andrey Yuryevich
    Andrey Yuryevich 29 January 2014 07: 41
    +4
    The head of Roscosmos, Oleg Ostapenko, on Tuesday at the “Royal Readings” at the Moscow State Technical University named after Bauman, announced the creation of a super-heavy space rocket capable of putting a payload in excess of 160 tons into orbit.
    request I am not a scientist from "Roskosmos" of course, but this development path seems to me a dead end, because it is impossible to create "super-heavy" rockets indefinitely, probably some kind of alternative carrier is needed, on other physical principles ... when will there be a breakthrough?
    1. Volkhov
      Volkhov 29 January 2014 08: 18
      +1
      Quote: Andrey Yurievich
      some kind of alternative medium is needed, on other physical principles ... then when will there be a breakthrough?

      The Germans, as well as the Martians and distant neighbors, had everything and the Russians had before the Christian corruption ... a breakthrough will be outside the framework of Zionist science in general and Roscosmos in particular, whose task is the opposite.
    2. avt
      avt 29 January 2014 11: 39
      +2
      Quote: Andrey Yurievich
      However, this development path seems to me a dead end, because it is impossible to create "super-heavy" rockets indefinitely, probably some kind of alternative carrier is needed, based on different physical principles ..

      This is just understandable, but it is more interesting to cut the loot for the new management on a new project, where it is up to the flight model as to the moon, rather than bringing something to mind - the responsibility is completely different. flight model. How many years did it take to bring 500ku to an acceptable level of reliability? Again, where will the table be made for it? It’s definitely not in Tyra that it’s not going to be remodeled from N1 / Energia. Some enthusiastic people may say - take the drawings of "Energies" and make them. But the question is - on hydrogen? Can you imagine what and how, and how much money will a cryogenic start cost? You just think that the Americans wrote off the shuttles and abandoned Apollo and, , Titan "? The only correct way is to finish the" Angara ", to shoot the old Soviet groundwork and deal with fundamentally new systems -
      Quote: Andrey Yurievich
      on other physical principles ... a breakthrough then when will it be?
      Here it is necessary to put the question a little differently. But WHO will do it !? The current "effective managers", even when they really need it, will not tolerate people of the scale of Korolev, Chelomey and the like, near themselves, let alone above themselves. For "effective managers", a flight to the Moon or Mars is not the goal! It is only a means of mastering the budget.
  3. Same lech
    Same lech 29 January 2014 07: 41
    0
    capable of putting payloads weighing over 160 tons into orbit is a wonderful idea (but so far in the realm of fantasy).

    Recently I watched the film GRAVITY, the trick is that in their film on the Russian space ship there was vodka hidden along the nooks. (This is how people look at our space ships in the world)

    So I think in reality such projects with the construction of heavy ships should be tied to the real needs of RUSSIA and not for pure window dressing.
    1. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 29 January 2014 07: 46
      +5
      Well, in the "Armageddon" the fireman on the ISS is also drunk in a quilted jacket ... what to take from amers?
    2. Sibiryak
      Sibiryak 29 January 2014 07: 48
      +4
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      the trick is that in their film on a Russian space ship, vodka was hidden in the nooks

      People are different, but the stereotypes are the same - a cap with ear flaps, vodka and bears! What can you do if fool - it's a disease!
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. makarov
      makarov 29 January 2014 07: 59
      +4
      "In their film, vodka was hidden in the nooks and crannies on a Russian spaceship."

      This is all from the director's stupidity, they are wretched and unaware that first of all it is not vodka, but alcohol, and not in bottles, but jelly-like in tubes. They are also from the toad that the Russian cosmonauts did not share with the Americans, although they moaned a lot. That is, everything from the "toad" laughing
  4. Denis
    Denis 29 January 2014 07: 44
    0
    Russia and the US plan to jointly create a system of protection against asteroid-comet hazard
    Do I take it? The cost of the program is compared with the frequency of meteorites falling and the project will remain a project, not even a project, but only an idea
    1. silver_roman
      silver_roman 29 January 2014 14: 08
      +1
      they don't need it. the Anglo-Saxons, on the contrary, are interested in reducing the number of people on Earth. They would probably be happy if pebbles a couple of kilometers to China or the Russian Federation would fall. So all these joint projects are needed for one thing: so that later the officials on TV would say: "Well, what, we are with the Americans and in many ways cooperate: in the fight against terrorism and piracy, in space exploration and the fight against asteroids, but what we have Little disagreements over Syria, Libya, Egypt, Yugoslavia, Georgia, Ukraine and a couple of dozen other countries, it’s nothing! "
  5. makarov
    makarov 29 January 2014 07: 44
    +1
    There is no dispute that the Russian Federation should intensify its development of the space industry. It is no longer a secret, and it was announced more than once about the creation of stationary stations with personnel on the Moon by foreigners and Chinese, and Russia cannot lag behind in this. Of course, it is easier for the EU to do it together financially, but there is no other way out for the Russian Federation. Since the saying "who first got into the boat, he swam", in this topic remains true and relevant.
  6. Lumumba
    Lumumba 29 January 2014 07: 55
    +3
    Quote: Denis
    capable of putting payloads weighing over 160 tons into orbit is a wonderful idea (but so far in the realm of fantasy).


    Study history and materiel, dear. Back in the mid-80s, the Energia launch vehicle was developed for the Energia-Buran and Energia-Polyus complexes. So, this very "Energy" in the configuration "Volcano" could put into orbit not just some measly 160 tons, but all 200.

    After two successful launches, the project was abandoned, there were no worthy tasks for this supercomplex, the scoop was already breathing in the air and everyone was not up to the rockets.

    Modern plans to create a "carrier of 160 tons", there is another field for the development of budgets. Everything has already been invented before them, is it really difficult to take already existing developments and using modern technologies, change, reduce the cost and optimize them? Of course it's difficult, you can't make money on a ten-story yacht.
    1. Same lech
      Same lech 29 January 2014 08: 30
      +1
      Learn the history and equipment, and here it is.

      First, in the 80s, the entire industry of the USSR worked for the space industry.
      Further also Buran was built and safely buried.
      Therefore, such projects should not be done for the sake of prestige, but for the specific needs of RUSSIA — is there an urgent need now? (I think not yet).
  7. svoi
    svoi 29 January 2014 08: 01
    0
    Quote: Andrew Y.
    The head of Roscosmos, Oleg Ostapenko, on Tuesday at the “Royal Readings” at the Moscow State Technical University named after Bauman, announced the creation of a super-heavy space rocket capable of putting a payload in excess of 160 tons into orbit.
    request I am not a scientist from "Roskosmos" of course, but this development path seems to me a dead end, because it is impossible to create "super-heavy" rockets indefinitely, probably some kind of alternative carrier is needed, on other physical principles ... when will there be a breakthrough?

    Most likely not earlier, of fundamentally new discoveries in fundamental science. Those. regarding, human life, oh not soon. So far ... in the cannonball.
  8. Volkhov
    Volkhov 29 January 2014 08: 08
    +2
    This article is suitable for psychiatrists as a guide to delusions and illusions:

    The head of Roscosmos, Oleg Ostapenko, on Tuesday at the “Royal Readings” at the Moscow State Technical University named after Bauman, announced the creation of a super-heavy space rocket capable of putting a payload in excess of 160 tons into orbit.
    - this is such a Russian sport - to create N-1 ... to write off N-1, to create Energy ... to write off Energy, and now it's time to do something more in a new place.
    the probability calculated by experts that an asteroid could fall on our planet that could cause a global catastrophe. I am sure that this risk is minimal. And in the next thousand years, this certainly will not happen.

    How can a specialist calculate something without understanding the principles of the physics of explosions in collisions and assure about a thousand years? The sky is full of pre-signals - advertisements for future collisions.
    1. VADEL
      VADEL 29 January 2014 10: 33
      0
      What is the photo? I saw something similar in the sky of the year in 2006.
      1. Volkhov
        Volkhov 29 January 2014 11: 44
        0
        One of the pre-signals - a comet explosion throws part of the plasma back in time - to us.
        And where they saw it - practical interest. ???
        1. VADEL
          VADEL 29 January 2014 12: 58
          0
          Over Krasnoyarsk. Heard in several other cities saw the "spiral". But this is just part of the "presentation".
        2. silver_roman
          silver_roman 29 January 2014 14: 13
          +1
          "back in time" - i.e. the explosion took place a long time ago, but the explosion from the explosion only now reached us due to the low speed of light in relation to the distance from the explosion to the earth?
          I love space - there is no democracy yet !!! lol
          brains rest when you think about it all!
          1. Volkhov
            Volkhov 29 January 2014 17: 16
            0
            Back in time - it means an explosion occurs in the future, and part of the plasma throws us into the past. These explosions occur in the atmosphere and burn everything for tens of kilometers, the equivalents in Mt and Gt of TNT.
            It was not by chance that the ancestors laid out stone spirals or knocked them out in stone - they tried to convey a warning, because From a pre-signal to an explosion, tens and hundreds of years may pass and eyewitnesses may not survive. And they were on duty at observatories at night.
            1. silver_roman
              silver_roman 29 January 2014 21: 06
              0
              interesting theory!
              But how can plasma go back in time?
              just to have an idea about it, you need to at least understand by what physical principles this movement occurs, i.e. what factors influence this: the amount of energy released, speed or something else !!! ????

              I know that sometimes we see the radiance of stars that may not exist long ago. it is easy to understand and explain, but the theory described by you ... I have not heard that before!
              1. Volkhov
                Volkhov 30 January 2014 03: 15
                0
                Quote: silver_roman
                But how can plasma go back in time?

                This physics can be applied in different ways, as far as civil defense is available at http://sinteh.info, it slightly increases the chances of survival, and a full understanding will not necessarily benefit - why do you need Mt from ice?
          2. Volkhov
            Volkhov 29 January 2014 17: 22
            0
            Here are the consequences of those warnings - the atomic shadow of a giant on a throne shooting at a comet.
            1. atalef
              atalef 29 January 2014 17: 34
              -1
              Quote: Volkhov
              Here are the consequences of those warnings - the atomic shadow of a giant on a throne shooting at a comet.

              This is the pale shadow of the ancestor of Ukrainians .tk. everyone knows that Ukrainians are descended from the Atlanteans. laughing
              1. Volkhov
                Volkhov 29 January 2014 19: 33
                0
                You have a whole Sinai with a fused crust of black color and a triangle visible from space (direct radiation from the center of the funnel) - do not burn the region in 2024 BC nowhere to come from Egypt, so your story is based on this process.
                1. atalef
                  atalef 29 January 2014 21: 56
                  0
                  Quote: Volkhov
                  You have a whole Sinai with a fused crust of black color and a triangle visible from space (direct radiation from the center of the funnel) - do not burn the region in 2024 BC nowhere to come from Egypt, so your story is based on this process.

                  Thanks, CEP, educated.
                  About radiation can be more detailed and how to direct it in the direction we need. wassat
                  1. Volkhov
                    Volkhov 30 January 2014 03: 03
                    0
                    Quote: atalef
                    About radiation it is possible in more detail and how to direct it in the direction we need

                    The side you need is on us. Do you have partners - Grays (along the chain Grays - Venusians - Zionism) they have been practicing this for a long time and successfully, they burned cities throughout the Earth for 6000 years. Your role in the process is to deceive and decompose us so that no one bothers the Gray.
                    The menorah and the Virgin are seven-shot symbols of their main blow ...
                    In the end, they also do not need you, demonstrative comets over China and Yekaterinburg have already driven.
  9. saag
    saag 29 January 2014 08: 10
    +1
    a two-start scheme is more profitable than this monstrous enterprise of 160 tons or more, especially since work on the cryogenic topic is somehow not being carried out, the closure of the Rus project, where the second stage was an oxygen-hydrogen confirmation of this. And if we consider possible goals for space expansion, at least for the near future, then Lunar tourism, with a hotel somewhere in a cave, a lunar safari on lunar ATVs, lunar cocktails, lunar sex, a photo for memory, visiting the owners of the lunar areas of their possessions, photo for memory, construction of lunar summer cottages. As related technologies, this is the construction of an electromagnetic catapult for launching spacecraft into low lunar orbit, lunar metallurgy from the sun, production of solar batteries, oxygen from ilmenite, iron, titanium, production of spacecraft, robotics, electronics, metal products for their own needs, no export to the ground.
  10. invisibility
    invisibility 29 January 2014 08: 18
    +3
    The head of RSC Energia Vitaly Lopota said today that the ISS should be left as a “visited port near the Earth.” In his opinion, further space exploration without stations is unproductive
    No brainer! The Americans relied on shuttles, the USSR on orbital stations.
    I am still a beast when I remember how the "MIR" was drowned !!! Cooperation in space, of course, is a necessary thing, but a great space power, which was the first to start space exploration, simply must have its own stations! Otherwise, all of our cosmo managers are somehow used to relying on Americans, Europeans, Japanese, etc.
    1. silver_roman
      silver_roman 29 January 2014 14: 16
      0
      I'm not special on space issues, but how much does the cost of the same ISS cost? I think with our economy, in principle, it’s not realistic to contain it.
      And so the "partners and friends" in space are babukoy help, they also pay for our unions, tk. nothing more to fly into space!
  11. Lumumba
    Lumumba 29 January 2014 09: 02
    0
    Quote: The same LYOKHA

    First, in the 80s, the entire industry of the USSR worked for the space industry.
    Further also Buran was built and safely buried.
    Therefore, such projects should not be done for the sake of prestige, but for the specific needs of RUSSIA — is there an urgent need now? (I think not yet).


    So what's so fantastic about this? And arguing about the need for various space projects, we will inevitably come to the question of the need for the development of cosmonautics in general. Indeed, many still Soviet projects are elementarily ahead of their time, therefore they are irrelevant, but this does not mean that they did not give anything to science and technology. On the contrary, technology has moved far ahead, both theoretically and purely practical, and this is an achievement and a result.
  12. negeroi
    negeroi 29 January 2014 09: 26
    0
    25 years the same fairy tales. One is comforting, not a word has changed, then they themselves believe in what they are saying. But neither a word, nor a half-word is something new. So don't wait.

    Enemies flooded the world, yes? The world ran out of resources and was flooded. Life support systems. The world was infected with space mutants, fungi and bacteria, water could not be used. The fire did not contribute to the improvement of working capacity. Modules were blocked. There was no money for maintenance and repair. Yes, even if they were, it was impractical. He exhausted the possibilities, no matter what they say, but the life support system was unsuitable. Kirdyk came to the World, that's why they flooded. Or are Putin, the West again, the liberals to blame?

    It’s clear that we also lost the space race. We can develop space programs only in cooperation so far. We don’t pull it, we have lost leadership, quality, volume. I’m not just whining, I’m just stating. I don’t offer girdles, it’s proven, nichrome doesn’t help. I offer calmly without show-offs belongs to the Russian space programs. There will come a time, we will recover, we will have our own breakthrough technologies and projects. But now it’s not so, and you can wait for changes no sooner than in 10-15 years. Nobody invests money into the Cosmos that could to talk about the novelty of the projects. Yes, we are investing in New Cosmodromes. And thank God. But the technologies themselves are not heard. Maybe they are secret, it would also be nice. However, none of the management, and experts are silent, no one brags about the new, well, or at least with plans for new directions, one and the same chewing gum for 30 years. Previously, we boasted. We just increase the volume of launches, so that in an ever-increasing space production we keep our 3%, satellite launches. That is. we are trying to maintain the status quo. And this is also good. It’s just really a pity that there’s nothing to brag about. But there’s no point in talking. Before whom? And new technologies and new devices are a lot of money, insights and design bureaus either in sharashka or in full chocolate. not chocolate. Ponts are understandable, just each of us wants something in our life ..
  13. Nasty pirate
    Nasty pirate 29 January 2014 12: 24
    +1
    Something urgently needs to be addressed with Mongolia, while China is not so active in foreign policy. It is necessary to recruit and bribe Mongol officials to lobby for the distribution of the Russian language in schools, so that the media are controlled by Russian companies. It is necessary to include Mongolia in all possible political organizations.
    1. Asgard
      Asgard 29 January 2014 14: 26
      +3
      Quote: NastyPirate
      Something urgently needs to be addressed with Mongolia,

      neighing ....... pasibki cheered up the "old man", that's right, what the fuck is space .... Mongolia is the main thing)))))))
      Quote: negeroi
      Enemies flooded the world, yes? The world ran out of resources and was flooded.

      The world was designed for twenty years (each module)) .... On February 20, 1986, the Mir orbital scientific station was launched into orbit. 15 years later, the station was flooded in the Pacific Ocean. In 1996, the last module was docked .... but not the last one according to the project .....
      What the fuck "fungi" are fairy tales for fools .....
      Came "St. Petersburg" and destroyed space .... They also hang noodles that the Voivode sucks with 30 warheads (maneuvering)) but Poplar and YARS with one warhead is COOL))))))

      The forum is constantly recommended to study MAT part, so I will join.
      I will not write MATs, all the same, two Tech. Higher, service in CA.)))))
      [center] clickableмирмир[/ left]
      1. negeroi
        negeroi 29 January 2014 15: 44
        0
        Those. two towers don’t allow astronauts to believe? Bastards are lying? You opened my eyes, they also worked as scoundrels in the USA! And they also lied about the life support system. We won’t believe them, we’ll believe you. Mom part? Well ... and take advice, study the chronicle of the World’s life. What fungi you will learn. Teach the mat part of a colleague.
      2. The comment was deleted.
  14. I think so
    I think so 29 January 2014 13: 58
    +1
    Empty conversations ... The country ALREADY REALLY CAN NOT create ANYTHING, and the leaders rave about with some kind of projects ... The Glonas satellites cannot be easily launched into space, but the bosses dream of interplanetary planning anyway ... In order to implement such plans, it is now necessary to BUILD EVERYTHING AGAIN an industrial base ... and this is only possible for strong leaders at the highest level ... and this is not about present-day Russia ... The current shallow grass is no longer capable of stealing more than a long pipe for theft ...
    1. polkovnik manuch
      polkovnik manuch 29 January 2014 15: 10
      0
      Totally agree with you! Thanks to shitty transformations, the collapse of industry, connecting technological chains, cuts, corruption at all levels, we will soon become a third-rate space power altogether. SPECIALS should be engaged in and lead the industry !!! and not the current associates of DAM.
  15. alone
    alone 29 January 2014 19: 21
    0
    As a child, I remember how much was done in the USSR for space exploration. Colossal financial resources were spent. But it must be said that these costs justified themselves with concrete successes.
    I would not want the new development costs to be associated with such a detrimental phenomenon as cutting money. If this is intended for this, then it is better to spend this money for other purposes. Although something remains simple in the form of infrastructures and jobs.
  16. nod739
    nod739 30 January 2014 00: 31
    0
    interesting topic
    but use the technology of the middle of the 20th century, squeezing the last drops from them ... we will not fly far
    need a breakthrough
    the statements of our scientifically-leading husbands - words, no specifics, no tasks, or rather they are sluggish and blurry - and this is the topic of budget development
    ... I remember 10-15 years they rubbed a lot about solar sails, even a rocket, if memory serves, the "Volna" was launched with a demonstrator
    the money has been spent, there is no technology, no sails either, although the topic has not been exhausted ...
    base on the moon or Mars is interesting, but what is the task? practical task?
    the mattresses on the moon visited — that was political emphasis, for ours were then the first in everything, a satellite, a man, a pennant to the moon, etc.
    now the task can only be practical
    so what to do on mars? just for prestige?
    maybe hotels to develop? massively and cheaply, Shtatniks gave the topic to private owners, and they already have results, private rockets, private spaceports, at first everyone laughed, and last year the application for delivery of cargo to the ISS was completely from a private company !! and oops, already respected. and do not chuckle, and with such a trend in 5-10 years they will be market leaders. And then the Chinese are breathing in the back of the head, stepping on the heels, using our technologies
    But what about missiles? - old technology, and efficiency - lower than that of a steam train, a breakthrough is needed
    elevator, they said so far fantastic, even nanotubes will help little
    but the same nano-tube technology could help in such a topic
    two satellites are flying, let's say in an orbit of 200 km, at a distance of 2000 km from each other. and between them is a kevlar nano-tube-sophisticated rope, and so the middle of this rope will be almost 100 km closer to the earth than the satellite’s orbit, i.e. not 200 and about 100
    and in the middle of this rope is a platform
    and so the rocket displays the cargo not 400 km there, but onto this very platform, i.e. to a low orbit, and then the elevator can also be paired for friction is not only that in the atmosphere, although it is great (it will require technologies to maintain the orbit)
    and the rocket itself can not be launched from the ground, from any flying airfield at an altitude of 35-45 km, where it can be permanently supported on giant balloons
    Of course - this is the view of an amateur,
    but a simple, in-depth calculation shows that in order to change the system of delivering cargo into orbit from the LV to such a scheme (or any other), restructuring of almost the entire industry will be required - and this is not a huge amount of money, this is a huge amount of money
    But a simple calculation shows that, at the same time, delivery in stages to different heights in different ways, although it complicates the logistics and the technology, but in general it makes a kilogram of cargo in orbit cheaper, because for each height there is a very cheap delivery method. then as up to 30-35 km, both by airplanes and balloons, to the lowest orbit - launch vehicle, a little higher you can be smart with cables, by the way, the topic was studied in the USSR, a 30-kilometer one was created !!! a cable made of Kevlar, and even worked out something, but the topic was closed - then there were no nanotubes, and the "barge haulers" system was also being worked out - delivery of cargo to low orbit. and then they were dragged to the WORLD by orbital ships ... a lot of things were tested and conceived, but somewhere ahead of their time - it is necessary to repeat, taking into account new materials and technologies, and even dig out all kinds of ideas from the archives, if today there are not enough of our own
    once again I repeat - my opinion - the view of an amateur, but an amateur who is interested in the topic of astronautics and even sometimes picking up calculators or Excel for some rough estimates
    By the way, if you compare the phased delivery from the launch vehicle to the earth transport, then you can do something like this:
    cargo is transported by car to the train station, then to the seaport by train. further on the ship, then again railway or car - this is a phased cargo delivery
    and if there was the principle of pH, then there would be a single transport which is perpendicularly by water and land is technically quite possible, but its efficiency. and, accordingly, the cost of delivering a kilogram is exactly what we have in orbit today with the help of a launch vehicle)))