Military Review

The Baptism of Russia, or the "over-patriotism" of Slavic neopaganism

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This year, all of Russia - Great, Small and White - celebrates the 1025 anniversary of their baptism - joining the family of Christian peoples, when “once not a people”, became a people of God, a chosen people, a holy people, who assumed the “royal priesthood” ( Wed 1 Peter 2: 9 – 10) serving the One true God, the Creator of heaven and earth.



V. Vasnetsov. Baptism of Russia. Sketch of painting for the Vladimir Cathedral in Kiev. 1890


At such a significant time, it will be right to once again reflect on the transition of our ancestors from paganism to monotheism and the attitude of our contemporaries to the faith of fathers and ancestors: to Eastern Christianity and the so-called "primordial Orthodoxy" - worship of the "Slavic trinity" (Rule, Slavi and Navi); reflect on the significance of Orthodoxy for Russia, the role of sects and the continuing attempts to form Slavic neo-pagan nationalism.

About Orthodoxy and its "substitutes"

In 988, the Grand Duke Vladimir I the Red Sun, rejecting the pagan faith of the ancestors, made Christianity the state religion of Kievan Rus. Since then, the Russian Church has cleansed and sanctified the souls of its children for centuries, making them a “holy place”, the temple of the Holy Spirit, so that God would dwell in them.

With the grace of God’s help, the Russian Orthodox Church created and filled to the brim a vessel of sacrificial love in the Russian people, which for centuries allowed him to patiently endure the trials that fell to his lot: famine, mora, nomad raids, the Horde yoke, Time of Troubles, countless wars ... And at the same time expand the boundaries of their habitat and cultural development of new lands from the White Sea in the north to the Black Sea in the south, from the Vistula River in the west to the Pacific Ocean in the east, and the development of Siberia and Alaska was almost peaceful. Not a single local people, even the smallest, were destroyed (which cannot be said, for example, of the colonization of America by white settlers). Russia carried everywhere its high culture and Orthodoxy, and the conversion to it occurred voluntarily. Orthodox people in each person first of all saw the image of God, and then the color of his skin, the cut of his eyes and therefore did not take his life away from him, but presented the most precious and priceless that they themselves had - their faith in the Infinite, supra-mundane, Almighty God, Who became a Man “for our sake and our sake for salvation” and by the great ineffable love He allowed Him to be crucified on the Cross to grant immortality and eternal bliss to everyone in His Kingdom, who also commanded us to love one another with the same sacrificial love until death. And for this very love, the Russian people at the cost of their blood saved Orthodox Georgia from complete destruction, liberated southern Slavs from Turks, and thanks to this struggle, Greece was able to gain independence from the High Ports.

Those who claim that Christianity is a “weak religion,” there is no militancy, rage, aiming at victory in it, this is the religion of slaves and defeatists who cannot stand up for themselves, but only instructing them to turn their cheeks under blows and neck the executioner's ax, - these people either deliberately slander and blaspheme, or honestly err, knowing about Orthodoxy by hearsay from the dark rumors about Tolstoyan non-resistance and the refusal of Baptists to serve in the army and take in their hands weapon.


The baptism of the squad of Prince Vladimir. Radziwill chronicle. K. XV century.


The falsity of such statements shows история. Orthodox Byzantium from IV to XV century opposed the frenzied onslaught of pagan barbarians and Muslims. Orthodox Russia from the 10th to the 20th centuries, that is, for a thousand years, practically alone resisted the same frenzied, cruel and often despicable onslaught from the Catholic (“Christian”) of the West and from the pagan, and then the Muslim East and South. And not only stood in place, but also expanded its borders to the east to the Pacific Ocean and to the south to the Crimea, the Black Sea, the Caucasus, Afghanistan and China. And only when faith began to weaken, when political forces appeared, which began to consciously fight with the Church, defame it and the faith, and then destroy it physically, when the Church was weakened to the last degree, they completely eliminated it from influencing the people and their life (under the Soviet the authorities of the Church not only could not bring up soldiers, but also engage in charity, and the Christian upbringing of children was declared a criminal offense), then our state collapsed and fell apart.

The new power, established over the Russian people in 1917, exploited the same reservoir of people’s sacrificial love, willingly drawing it for its needs, but doing nothing to replenish it, but on the contrary, all these years actively trying to destroy the Church, through which The Lord gave the people fertile help and the power to fulfill the historic mission that He intended for him. Bolsheviks 70 years diligently sawed bitches, on which, without even noticing, sat. The Soviet government tried to carry out a gigantic social experiment to sterilize human souls: God was breaking out and corroding them, and this place was often under the threat of the death penalty a new belief was implanted - that there is no God, man could build man-made paradise on earth to a country taken ... For this, the Church and the whole centuries-old Orthodox culture of a great country were persecuted, and a new cult and ritual was hastily composed, new "prophets" and "saviors" of humanity were glorified, pseudo martyrology (biography "as it were martyrs" of the revolution and a bright future), appointed by the new "holy places", marked throughout commemorative plaques, monuments and museums, compose a new calendar with new holidays and memorable dates, religious processions replaced by demonstrations, etc. etc. They even created new “powers”, in order to comply with the artificial “incorruptibility” of which they had to establish an entire institution that revived the ancient practice of the Egyptian priests in embalming the dead pharaohs ... The new government composed “the opposite of religion”, but the words unites man with God, the new cult had to unite man as if with empty space, because it was proclaimed that there is no God. But in reality it was a godless cult.

The result is known: a country restored in a fratricidal civil war in almost the same pre-revolutionary borders, and having won millions of lives in a terrible world war with almost all of Europe conquered by Nazi Germany and its allies, and then for many years opposing the Cold War to almost the entire Western to the world, crumbled like a house of cards from one stroke of a pen in Belovezhskaya Pushcha. The people are tired. The reservoir of people's love and sacrifice has reached a critical point, and now the new government is forced to look for a national idea and puzzle over the problems of the “new Russia”: ensuring defense capability, economic recovery, strengthening statehood ...

During the years of perestroika, new generations grew up in Russia, which received almost nothing positive for the soul: only the cult of profit, sensual pleasures, depravity, cruelty, the desire for "success" at any cost, etc., that is, they "gained" spiritual emptiness, which was quickly filled by an abomination: alcohol, drugs, destructive and totalitarian religious teachings, destroying physical and mental health, enslaving the human person, leading to its degradation, withdrawal from the life of society into the closed life of a sect from which many often don’t return. And it happened to us in the Gospel parable: an impure spirit who was expelled from a person wanders through deserted places, but does not find rest outside it and, returning, finds its place “unoccupied, swept and cleaned”, that is, without God, without the Holy Spirit; “Then he goes and takes with him seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter there and live there; and it is for a man that the latter is worse than the first ”(Matthew 12: 43 – 45). Russia became such a person obsessed with seven evil spirits at the end of the 20th century.

Since the beginning of perestroika, Russia has widely opened the doors to all religious and pseudo-religious organizations, and countless preachers, barkers and magicians have flooded the country. But it was not a disorderly mob, but a well-planned and deeply echeloned invasion with clear goals, objectives, methods, delineation of spheres of action and influence. And the invasion was extremely dangerous. Even the Yeltsin Duma, at least in words, expressed its concern, proposed to create a special unit of the Ministry of Internal Affairs on the problems of criminality of destructive religious organizations, recommended the Security Council of the Russian Federation to create a special commission "to check the activities and finance destructive religious organizations" [1], etc. . etc. Jin was released from the bottle, an epidemic of spiritual contagion swept the whole country.

The secession of sects in Russia and Western Europe is largely inspired and supported by the United States and its intelligence services. It was not for nothing that the States threatened to deprive Russia of loans if they offended its agents. Most of the destructive cults originated or have their own leading centers in the United States, are sent by American intelligence services in their activities and carry out intelligence and subversive work in Russia, form semi-legal and secret militarized organizations, decompose the national culture, try to penetrate and penetrate government and state structures, defense enterprises, nuclear facilities ...

The principal difference of all foreign cults from the traditional religions of Russia is their closeness, devotion of adherents of this cult not to the general idea, but to the head and the organization itself, and not the host country, which ceases to be a homeland for its members; asociality; essentially hostility to Russia, its culture, history, traditions and customs; attitude to Russia as an object of capture and occupation, a source of income and recruitment of new members, the implementation of their power claims to world domination, as most cults aim to capture quite earthly, not abstract, spiritual power over the territory of their location and over everything the world.

All totalitarian sects, themselves having very tough, strictly centralized structures with the strongest imperious discipline, going back to the subordination of one dictator or a small group, skillfully use the democratic spineless legislation of many countries with its abstract humanity and achieve great success.

While Russia was an Orthodox monarchy, there was no such a threatening situation, and there could not be, although the law on religious tolerance was adopted. This was explained simply: the incitement of the Orthodox person into any other religion (proselytism) was prohibited by law, and the absolute majority of the population was Orthodox.

"Overpatriotism" of neo-paganism

Another way of weakening Russia, aimed at preventing the restoration of a single spiritual culture and a single nation, is the revival of the ancient ancient local cult, paganism. Neo-paganism helps to reject from Russia the once baptized and culturally included in the all-Russian superethnos non-Russian nationalities under the pretext of their return to the former culture, the faith of their ancestors, etc.

It is sad that many Russian people come across this same romantic trick. Some imitate their departure to paganism, quite consciously fulfilling the task of the relevant special services leading the struggle against Russia, others fall prey to their sincere delusion that by doing so they supposedly cleanse Russian culture of all late and alien accretions of both communism and Christianity.

Psychologically they can be understood. If some sincere patriots return from the fallacies of communism to Orthodoxy, like the faith of fathers and grandfathers, to their traditional culture and heroic history, others, some kind of super-patriots, want to go back even further into the depths of ages, to the roots of ancestors, to more ancient culture and no less heroic and tragic past. The desire is understandable and understandable, but is it reasonable? Does it benefit the man himself and the Fatherland?

Any ethnic group, like a person, is once born, goes through a period of childhood, maturity, old age and disappears from the characters of history. Where are the ancient Egyptians, the terrible Assyrians, the powerful Persians? Where is the Roman Empire, Byzantium? They are no longer there. They completed the cycle of their historical existence: they arose, developed, had a period of flowering, then decline, and finally dissolved in the river of time, leaving a memory of themselves in architecture, literature, religion, history. So, every nation was a “child”, but is it reasonable to return from maturity to childhood, to its ideological helplessness, delusions, ignorance of the truth? If an adult man, having spent years and energy on getting everyday and scientific knowledge, on education, having filled bugs from mistakes, he will want to return to his children's inarticulate babble, children's fears of darkness, lack of education, puzzled “why”, to which he has already received answers for years of your long life? Paganism was the “childhood” of many peoples: Greeks, Romans, Germans (current Germans, Scandinavians, Englishmen), Gauls (French), Slavs ... The current interest of the post-Christian West to the pagan cults included in the modern general relio-occult movement New Age ( The New Era) appeared a long time ago (Z. Freud, C. Jung) and expressed itself in the interest in his own and someone else's ancient mythology. This interest only testifies to the apostasy of our time (apostasy from Christ) and “falling into childhood”, senile marasmus of a dying civilization, which characterizes the transition of the Western superethnos into the phase of obscuration, according to the theory of ethnogenesis L.N. Gumilev [2]. But the Russian superethnos is young, we have a tragic phase of fracture, having sustained that, we can move into a relatively quiet inertial phase of cultural prosperity. Should we imitate the seemingly prosperous but historically dying West, which has lost its spiritual meaning and purpose for its existence?

By adopting Christianity, Russia did not lose anything of any value and usefulness from its cultural past, just as the Greeks did not lose the best part of their classical philosophy, which was perceived, revised and adopted by Christian theology. Greeks, Slavs, Vikings and others - pagan in the past - peoples abandoned their previous religious errors, finding the truth of Divine revelation, abandoned wild customs (human sacrifices, killing the wives and servants of the deceased leader, etc.), ennobled manners, gained high moral standards ( condemnation of debauchery, murder of children, preaching of mercy, love, etc.).

Let us try to show the untruth of neo-paganism on the basis of four arguments.

1. Historical Argument

The Rodnovers - the current lovers of Perun, Dazhbog, Svarog and other Slavic gods - in fact, little can be learned about them, for both the cult and the beliefs and the ritual are completely lost. Neo-pagans do not so much restore as they re-compose these cults. It may be interesting from a creative point of view (how to write a novel or poem), but there is neither historical authenticity nor genuine faith in this, for there is no cultural and religious continuity.


The murder of Theodore Varyag and his son John. Radzivilsky chronicle. Kon XV century.


Unlike our contemporaries, Prince Vladimir and his supporters, with whom he chose and “tested” the new faith, knew well the cult and faith of their ancestors. And not suddenly, and not without the advice of the oldest people of the Russian land, chose Eastern Christianity. They also knew what they were giving up and what they were losing and losing, because in a pagan society the prince performed supreme priestly functions (like the pagan Roman emperor was the high priest in Rome) [3]. Present admirers of Perun believe that they know and love him more and they are more expensive and closer to them than Prince Vladimir, who has offered him sacrifices for many years, including human ones? Or will our antiquity lovers also plan to sacrifice Christians to their gods, as the “elders of the city” and “boyars” did in 983 in Kiev, killing the Varyag Theodore and his son John [4]? Or will they slaughter their newborn babies in front of the idols, whose remains were found by archaeologists in the Bohemian temple on the Zbruch River in the Carpathian region [5]? How deep into the darkness and wildness of the centuries do new pagans want to descend with their religious consciousness and deeds? Our ancestors offered human sacrifices on the Zbruch right up until the second half of the 13th century. Wasn’t this the sin of infanticide that the Lord permitted to invade the Horde in Russia in the same 13th century? Is it not for our grandfathers dual faith? We will also be afraid of the new dual faith, so that Russia will not perish from the invasion of a horde of globalism and Americanism, taking advantage of the division of Russian patriots among themselves, as it was among princes in the 13th century. The “horde” wants this, but do we really want our doom?

2. Philosophical argument

Back in VI – V centuries. BC. The pagan Greek philosopher Xenophanes criticized the polytheism and religious anthropomorphism of his contemporaries, proving to them that they invent gods like themselves, and expressed a teaching about the one God. God is one, he argued, because if we assume that there are several gods, some of them will be more powerful, some less powerful. Since God, by definition, is the most powerful Being, He can only be One. If all gods are equal, have equal power, then also they are not fully gods, because they are not the most powerful. He further argued that God is eternal, that is, his appearance from something or someone that is omnipresent, omniscient, etc. is impossible. We see nothing of this in any pagan mythology, where there is always a genealogy of the gods, their mutual quarrels, revenge, battles, marriages and betrayals of wives, etc. The most famous Greek pantheon is full of the most incredible and shameful stories about the birth of the gods, their prodigal adventures, envy, jealousy, that is, everything that so sensibly criticized the sensible heathen Xenophanes: if animals believed in gods, they would invent them like themselves. The Greek pantheon and myths reflected all human passions. About the Slavic pantheon little is truly known, but it could not be fundamentally different.

Later, Plato (5th-4th centuries BC) and Aristotle (4th century BC) developed the doctrine of God as the First Cause, Prime Mover, Absolute Good ... In ancient Greece, philosophers studied the universe and its laws , the person and the laws of his thinking, hoping to gain knowledge about the root causes of all things. They studied astronomy, physics, mathematics, geometry, music, and poetry, and combined all this with ascetic life and prayer, without which it is impossible to achieve purification of the mind, soul and body. Studying the visible world, they discovered its strict laws and extraordinary harmony, so that they called it "cosmos", that is, "beauty" as opposed to chaos - disharmony. They saw that everything in the world was created according to a single plan, and so they came up with the idea of ​​a single Organizer of the Universe. Plato called Him the Creator, the Father, God and the Demiurge (Maker). He wrote:

“Everything that has arisen needs to appear for some reason. Of course, the Creator and the Father of the Universe is not easy to find, and if we find Him, it will be impossible to tell everyone about Him ... Cosmos is beautiful, and the Demiurge is kind ... Cosmos is the most beautiful thing that has arisen, and the Demiurge is the best of reasons .. Being good, He took care of all the visible things that were not at rest, but in a disorderly and erratic movement; He brought them out of disorder to order. ”[6]

Their discoveries are the fruit of human thought, the logical consequence of thinking about the invisible essence of the visible world. Follow their thought and you will see that if everything in the world has a cause, then there must be a reason for the cause. Rising along this causal series, we will inevitably first come to a reduction in their number, and then to that single Reason, Which is the basis of being in everything in this world. She can be only one. In the same way, with the movement, the source of which in the world should be one motionless First Person, God. The same with the Truth. Two truths can not be. The human mind, all reasonable human activity is built on formal logic, on the Aristotelian law of non-contradiction, but it does not allow two truths: it is impossible to say anything about any thing and deny it at the same time, in the same place , in the same relation, that is, impossible "A" and "not A", two opposing true statements are impossible.

The search for truth leads the human mind to the understanding that there is only one Truth and it is absolute, one Cause of being of all things and the whole world, one reason for the movement of everything - the Prime Mover. Then only God is original, only He has the cause of His being in Himself, and all the rest have the cause of their being in Him.

Pagan philosophy did not formally deny the gods, but recognized above them the highest Reason. In the cosmology of Plato, the gods perform subordinate functions similar to the functions of angels in monotheistic religions, that is, they are not gods (as Xenophanes showed), they were created by the demiurge. The ancient philosophy in the person of its best representatives approached the truth about the one God.

Philosophy also interpreted the idea of ​​Logos (from the Greek. "Word, mind, thought, law"), as the universal law of the world order and the divine creative power mediating between God and the created world. Plotinus, through reflections and peculiar insights, came to the idea of ​​transcendence, infinity, unboundedness and unknowability of the Divine. The world is a reflection of the Divine reality, bears in itself the features of beauty and perfection. Through the purification of the body, the senses and the mind, a person can be elevated to the contemplation of God, who remains incomprehensible in his Being [7].

God, as a supreme Being, Having all the positive qualities in the highest degree and not having our inherent limitations, that is, the disembodied Spirit, Almighty, All-Knowing, All-present, Beginning, Infinite, Eternal, Unchanging, Unlimited, All-Good, All-Conscious, All-righteous, is God only one is possible, for two such creatures are no longer possible, which is what Xenophanes wrote about.

Therefore, if modern pagans are really religious and believe in gods, they seek Truth, and they are not atheists indifferent to faith, truth, the meaning of life and peace, who only fell in love with gray antiquity for Rule, Glory and Nav, for ancient cuts and features, wood carving ; for suits and military armor; if for them all this is really religion, then there is a connection with God, and not some ethnographic exotic, then they should follow the pagans Xenophanes, Plato, Aristotle to come to the concept of the one God and then we can speak already about the self-revelation of Truth.

3. Argument from Revelation

For people, some knowledge of the true God is possible even from natural Revelation, that is, from the contemplation of the world He created. As we saw above, this knowledge was touched by the best of pagan philosophers, but uneducated masses and those who did not want to learn anything, but only wanted to indulge in their passions, deified in the pagan pantheon, preferred and now prefer to remain with their usual and convenient errors . Therefore, the apostle Paul wrote in the first century of the Christian era:

“For what can be known about God is clearly for them, because God revealed to them. For His invisible, His eternal power and the Divine, from the creation of the world through looking at the creatures are visible, so that they are unrequited. But because, having known God, they did not glorify Him as God, and did not give thanks, but became vain in their thoughts, and their senseless heart was darkened; calling themselves wise, distraught, and the glory of the incorruptible God was changed into an image like a perishable man, and birds, and four-footed, and reptiles, God also betrayed them in the lusts of their hearts to uncleanness, so that they defiled their bodies themselves. They replaced the truth of God with a lie, and worshiped and served the creature instead of the Creator, who is blessed forever, amen. ”(Rom.1: 19 – 25).

This humiliation of the Invisible, the Incorruptible, the Uncreated God to the image of the creature and its service is idolatry and paganism, that is, voluntary or involuntary delusion of the human mind. The enlightened antiquity understood this and accepted the revelation of God about Himself, the Christian gospel of God Who is One in the Being and Trinity in Persons, Saving the world created by Him through the manifestation of God's sacrificial love for His creation.

We received this evangelism and our ancestors and for a thousand years served the One Creator of the world, in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, to the Glorified and the Worshiped. So is it necessary to return us back into the darkness of ages, to see a deity in every river, lake, tree, thunder and lightning, that is, in a creature? Do we need to bring them to the propitiatory and grateful sacrifices of roosters, sheep, bulls and children, in order to avert their “anger” and to gain “mercy and help”? Is it possible in the XXI century, such an enlightened, civilized and cultural, relapses of archaic thinking? It is hard to believe that a modern person who sincerely seeks Truth, to comprehend and comprehend the universe, could be satisfied with the inevitably primitivized archaic explanation of the world and kingdom of the gods. If he begins to build his abstract speculative constructions, using only their ancient names, to poetize a certain cult invented by him, not confirmed by archaeological or historical evidence, then what is the faith of the ancestors? This is a new religion invented, the fruit of the conscious deception of some and the sincere romantic delusion of others.

The Son of God has already offered a propitiation sacrifice for us all on the Cross - the only one, true and unique, and has consecrated to Her all those who believe in Him. Two thousand years ago, there was no longer a need not only for sacrifices to false pagan gods, but also for the bloody Old Testament sacrifices to the True God. Therefore, according to the prophecy of Daniel, Jerusalem fell and the sacrifice ceased (Dan.9: 26 – 27), that is, the entire Old Testament cult, the planned renewal of which will be direct theomachism.

Therefore, the words of Christ are addressed to the erring: “And you shall know the truth, and the truth will make you free” (John. 8: 32), that is, it will free you from erroneous opinions and sins of ignorance. The truth and the way to it and to eternal life is Christ, as He himself said: “I am the way and the truth and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me ”(John 14: 6). The Lord calls everyone to Himself and wants to save everyone, and in order to ascend to Heaven, He left His Church on earth. Come to her and receive saving grace in the Sacraments, which established the Lord. Go to Him. Road going by walking.

4. Psychological argument

The main internal reason for the rejection of Christianity by modern man and the fascination with paganism is the unwillingness to recognize the existence of significant moral shortcomings, which he cannot get rid of on his own. The pagan consciousness of both antiquity and modernity recognizes the existing human nature as self-sufficient, the norm that does not need to be transformed. Christianity claims that a person in his present state has a fallen (spoiled, sick) nature, and offers him divine help in changing oneself for the better, offers to be baptized and repent (which in Greek means "change"). For this, a person at the beginning must recognize himself as being a fallen, sinful being, to see in himself vicious passions. You can do this by evaluating your life according to the gospel moral commandments, comparing it with the earthly life of Jesus Christ, focusing on the perfection of God, which the Lord calls to strive for. At the same time, Christianity does not execute a man for his vices, but offers to be healed from them, to be transformed into the image of Christ, into the image of His human nature - perfect, sinless both in deeds, and in words and thoughts.

He who fears this, fears to heal himself from sin with the help of the grace of God, does not want to impose strict moral and physical restrictions on himself to curb the actions of passions, who is lazy or just happy with himself - for what he is, he does not want be a christian. And in order to "be in faith" in something higher than himself, he chooses beautiful, nostalgic, caressing Slavic rumor names: Velez, Stribog, Chernobog, Rozhanitsy, Triglav ...

All this is understandable and human weakness is excusable. After all, even the chosen people of God, the Old Testament Israel, who had waited for its Messiah for hundreds of years, received Him only in a small number, because they did not want to repent of their sins, believing themselves to be “rightly spotless”, in the words of Paul the Apostle (cf. Phil. 3 : 6). The Lord forgives human weakness, but the conscious stubbornness of the human will, not wanting to listen and do the will of God, is already theomachism. And therefore, the second thousand years through the prophets and apostles the call of God to humanity sounds: “Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand” (Mt. 3: 2). "Children! Last time ”(1IN.2: 18). “If we confess our sins, then He is faithful and righteous, forgive us sins (ours) and cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (1In.1: 9). For God is good and merciful, and “in Heaven there will be more joy about one sinner repentant than about ninety-nine righteous people who do not need repentance” (Lk.15: 7).

Conclusion

In 988, the Russian Orthodox Church was born in the baptism of Russia, which was of epochal significance for all Eastern Slavs (ancestors of Russians, Ukrainians and Belarusians) and many other peoples of historical Russia. According to the historian L.N. Gumilev, "the victory of Orthodoxy gave Russia its thousand-year history." And we hope not only the past history, but also the future one.


The baptism of the Grand Duke Vladimir. Radziwill chronicle. Kon XV century.


“Do not hope for riches, for the sons of mankind, there is no salvation in them ...” (Ps. 145: 3), Holy Scripture warns us. Only following the will of God and His assistance helps a person to fulfill his mission on earth. The same applies to whole nations. Once Christ said to his disciples: “I am the vine, and you are the branches; He who abides in me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch, and dries; and such branches are gathered and thrown into the fire, and they burn down ”(John. 15: 5 – 6).

While Russia was in Christ, that is, an Orthodox power, it grew and was strengthened by the fear of the enemies of Christ, for joy, hope and help for those who believe in Him. And she brought a lot of fruit - saints of God from various nations who were baptized in the Russian Orthodox Church. When Russia began to forget and retreat from Christ, then the flow of life-giving forces coming from Him began to dry out quickly, so that our “branch” shrank and even partially broke off. If we comprehend this bitter truth and again, through repentance, we will cling to the Vine of Christ, work hard and bring the fruit of holiness, then the Lord will have mercy on Russia and prolong her days, may she serve as a deterrent who will delay the final victory of evil in the world, coming to power over him “The man of sin”, who, according to the prediction of the Holy Scripture, is “the son of perdition, opposing and exalting above all that is called God or holy” (2Fes.2: 3 – 4).

Looking at the past of Russia with an unbiased look, we can say with confidence that without the Russian Orthodox Church there would be no great and powerful Russia. And if you look into our present and future, it becomes just as obvious that without the Church it will not exist. If Russia does not feel the same faith, it will disintegrate, and enemies will mock at its remains.

So come to your senses, Rus, arise, shake off the garbage of others' ideas, values, delusions, multitude and disbelief! Lead by broad shoulders as a bogatyr who has risen from a bad dream, step on the path of world evil, thousands of small and large delusions. Stand up for the protection of the truth of holy Orthodoxy, as once in your Time of Troubles, and God will help you.

If not, your mission will remain unfulfilled, and you will dissolve among the universal orgy of bezverja, immorality and lies in the whirl of the "new world order."

Yes, it will not!

[1] Krivelskaya N.V., Ph.D. legal Sciences Corr. Sect: the threat and the search for protection. M .: Blagovest Foundation, 1999. C. 191 (see Appendix 4. Appeal of the State Duma "To the President of the Russian Federation on the dangerous consequences of the impact of religious organizations on the health of society, family, citizens of Russia", "Resolution of the State Duma of the Russian Federation" from 15 Dec. 1996, 187 – 192 with.).
[2] Gumilev L.N. Ancient Russia and the Great Steppe. M .: Thought, 1992. C. 757. The theory itself, see. Gumilev L.N. Ethnogenesis and biosphere of the earth. L .: Gidrometeoizdat, 1990.
[3] Karpov A. Vladimir Saint. M .: Young Guard: ZHZL: Russian word, 1997. C. 147.
[4] Ibid. S. 142-147.
[5] Ibid. C. 142 – 143. See also Rusanova I.P., Timoshuk B.A. The pagan temples of the ancient Slavs. M., 1993.
[6] Timey, 28с – 30b. Quoted by: Hilarion (Alfeyev), igum. Sacrament of faith. Wedge: Christian Life Foundation, 2000. C. 23.
[7] Hilarion (Alfey), Igum. Sacrament of faith. Wedge: Foundation. Christian Life, 2000. C. 22 – 24.
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  1. Ingvar 72
    Ingvar 72 28 January 2014 15: 30
    +17
    The article is neither a plus nor a minus. A lot of right thoughts, a lot of template dogmas that exclude any other opinion. I agree with the author in determining the goals for which many religions, including paganism, are actively introducing themselves. I do not agree with the author that he puts an equal sign between Christianity of Byzantium and Russian Orthodoxy. It seems to be one branch of Christianity, but there is a difference, and a big one. Orthodoxy incorporates a mass of pagan rites and traditions. Many Christian holidays were superimposed on pagan, with all the attributes thereof. I do not agree with the author that the pagans and Rodnovers invent cults. This is not entirely true, there is a Rig Veda, there is a Veles book, and in the same Christianity a lot of pagan traditions are hidden. I think paganism is more correct in its essence, but it is now impossible to introduce it everywhere, this, as the author said, will lead to a split in society. Everything has its time. I really liked the compromise of Christianity with pagan roots in Valentin Ivanov, in his third book, Great Russia.
    1. baltika-18
      baltika-18 28 January 2014 16: 26
      +17
      Quote: Ingvar 72
      The article is neither a plus nor a minus

      And I minus for a reason.
      Quote: Ingvar 72
      many template dogmas that exclude any other opinion
      1. ele1285
        ele1285 28 January 2014 17: 07
        +21
        Quote: baltika-18
        And I minus for a reason. many template dogmas that exclude any other opinion

        A lot, the article is like speech in a tagged one, just banalities. My opinion is that the author simply fulfilled the order and did not put a drop of soul into the article.
        1. tomket
          tomket 28 January 2014 18: 54
          0
          and what should your soul be?
          1. ele1285
            ele1285 28 January 2014 19: 52
            -1
            I'll try to "sleep, my dear. You ask a question
            Quote: tomket
            and in what should your soul be?

            in the sense of where it is, or in its manifestation? Try to correctly pose your question. And then I don’t quite understand you, probably because of my education.
            I’ll try to answer directly to your question, as I understand it.
            Not a bit of a soul, sparks in the article are not enough, the author has no courage. Next to list? Or is my argument enough?
            And try to write without mistakes, ashamed
        2. azkolt
          azkolt 28 January 2014 21: 36
          +2
          And what did you actually want from the article that he would please us with Asov's next sucked-out discoveries from his finger?
      2. Oleg14774
        Oleg14774 28 January 2014 18: 12
        +11
        Quote: baltika-18
        And I minus for a reason.

        I minus too! Actually, the Right is Reveal and Nav, and not the Right is Glory and Nav! The one who read about it understands the significant difference!
        1. anarh
          anarh 28 January 2014 21: 38
          +13
          Quote: Oleg147741
          The one who read about it understands the significant difference!

          Where to read something?
          In the book of Veles published for the first time in the USA in the year 50 on the basis of supposedly seen by the author, but safely burned tablets?
          Or is the Internet full of fiction and distortion?
      3. Mikhail3
        Mikhail3 28 January 2014 21: 00
        -2
        As it came to Prince Vladimir, the human sacrificer, so far this punching was driven diagonally. Trampled lies.
        Damn, in Izborsk the river of life has completely gone shallow, and its annual consecration does not stop! The keys will dry up - will you return to Byzantium, the baptists are stubborn? So there is no longer Byzantium. And why would that be?
        1. azkolt
          azkolt 28 January 2014 21: 37
          -6
          Michael, so you will deny that the Slavic pagans made human sacrifices?
          1. Setrac
            Setrac 28 January 2014 21: 41
            +3
            Quote: azkolt
            Michael, so you will deny that the Slavic pagans made human sacrifices?

            This is a moot point, as well as whether the Slavs were pagans.
            1. anarh
              anarh 29 January 2014 07: 06
              +2
              Quote: Setrac
              This is a moot point, as well as whether the Slavs were pagans.

              Polytheists are called pagans.
              And then you’ll start now to drag in some language, leading away from the essence of the issue.
          2. heathen
            heathen 29 January 2014 13: 32
            +4
            Personally, I will not. And modern Christians will deny the burning of them by not so ancient co-religionists of all heretics, witches, etc. In fact, this is the same sacrifice, but also sadistic.
      4. urganov
        urganov 29 January 2014 04: 36
        0
        I unconditionally agree. Any religion is an absolute evil, because it is an attempt to dictate the way of thinking and worldview.
        1. anarh
          anarh 29 January 2014 07: 12
          +3
          Quote: urganov
          Any religion is an absolute evil, because it is an attempt to dictate the way of thinking and worldview.

          And any pseudo-democracy that suggests that any religion is evil is absolute good.
          They say to you: do not be a servant of God, and they make you a SLAVE of PASSION, a HUMAN SLAVE,
          1. alicante11
            alicante11 29 January 2014 07: 54
            +4
            But what should I do if I don’t want to be anybody’s slave? Neither God's nor human?
        2. Setrac
          Setrac 29 January 2014 11: 27
          +2
          Quote: urganov
          I unconditionally agree. Any religion is an absolute evil, because it is an attempt to dictate the way of thinking and worldview.

          Religion is an upbringing tool, and an instrument cannot be evil or kind, evil people like you for example.
    2. Andrey57
      Andrey57 28 January 2014 18: 03
      -3
      In 988, Grand Duke Vladimir I of the Red Sun, rejecting the pagan faith of his ancestors, made Christianity the state religion of Kievan Rus


      Actually, Prince Vladimir was the adopted son of the Grand Duke, his real parents were rabbis, that is, a Jewish priest, and a Khazarian. and as you know, the Khazars were Jews by religion.
      So Vladimir did not reject his faith, but the faith of the ancestors of the Rus, planting Christianity. In the article, this moment is not specified at all in Vladimir’s biography, and it seems that Vladimir was a Russian, which is not so.
      In this sense, the article is very tendentious and superficial.
      1. Setrac
        Setrac 28 January 2014 19: 07
        -1
        Quote: Andrey57
        So Vladimir did not reject his faith, but the faith of the ancestors of the Rus, planting Christianity.

        What did the princess say there?
        - I do not want to slave a slave.
        Rabić is the son of a rabbi.
        1. Gregazov
          Gregazov 28 January 2014 19: 37
          +10
          Quote: Setrac
          Quote: Andrey57
          So Vladimir did not reject his faith, but the faith of the ancestors of the Rus, planting Christianity.

          What did the princess say there?
          - I do not want to slave a slave.
          Rabić is the son of a rabbi.

          Rabich, or rather a slave girl, is the son of a slave, as many of her contemporaries called the mother of Vladimra Malusha (Malgerda), but the fatherhood of Svyatoslav has not been disputed by anyone before you.
          1. Setrac
            Setrac 28 January 2014 19: 48
            +2
            Quote: GregAzov
            son of a slave, so called mother

            Where does the son of a slave come from in a country where there is no slavery?
            1. Gregazov
              Gregazov 28 January 2014 21: 14
              +3
              Slavery was in any pagan society. Do you assume that the Slavs killed all the enemies during the battle, and killed their wives and children after the battle? The ancient Slavs were not infected with modern liberal ideas and acted in accordance with the right of the winner. So Svyatoslav gave his eldest son a Greek nun from a captured Greek monastery. I do not think that she went to his wife on a voluntary basis and not as a slave. The same fate was shared by the Polish Princess Rogneda, who called Vladimir a slave.
              1. Setrac
                Setrac 28 January 2014 21: 34
                +2
                Quote: GregAzov
                Slavery was in any pagan society. Do you assume that the Slavs killed all the enemies during the battle, and killed their wives and children after the battle?

                These are your speculations.
                1. Rink
                  Rink 29 January 2014 02: 05
                  +6
                  Quote: Setrac
                  These are your speculations.

                  Well, why so categorically? You too can be mistaken.
                  And if you turn to known data?

                  In the Western European or Asian sense, the ancient Slavs (or at least most of them) did not have slavery. The Slavs turned captive enemies into "slaves" who lived between them, had their own dwelling and a piece of land; lived the same life, and only at gatherings and veche did not have the right to vote. After 10 years, the "slave" was given a choice: to return to his own people or stay to live with the Slavs. Moreover, these customs were applied only to foreigners. The Slavs who were captured in internecine wars did not turn into "slaves", because all Slavs were considered sons of God and equal to each other.

                  True, this was not always the case. The history of the Slavs is very long, and naturally, changes in customs took place ...
                2. abrakadabre
                  abrakadabre 29 January 2014 10: 31
                  0
                  These are your speculations.
                  Your speculation is less conclusive.
              2. azkolt
                azkolt 28 January 2014 21: 40
                +5
                Rogneda was a Polotsk princess, not a Polish one!
              3. Andrey57
                Andrey57 29 January 2014 21: 36
                +3
                Learn the materiel - there were no slaves in Russia !!! Slavery in Russia brought ROMANOV !!!!!
                Malka was the housekeeper - the main manager of the entire princely court and knew everything in the absence of Princess Olga !!!
                If we take the birth years of Svyatoslav and Vladimir, it turns out that Vladimir was born when Svyatoslav was 13 years old, and he also had two older brothers! And this is impossible, since men, regardless of origin, were allowed to marry only in 21 year! And Vladimir was adopted by Svyatoslav when he needed to send the prince to Novgorod !!! The same as Petr Romanov adopted the Arab Ganibal and married him as his own son !!!
                After the seizure of power in Kiev, Vladimir himself never called himself the Grand Duke, but was called Kogan, remembering who he really was !!! And his Khazar origin did not raise any questions.
            2. anarh
              anarh 28 January 2014 21: 49
              0
              Quote: Setrac
              Where does the son of a slave come from in a country where there is no slavery?

              In full took more children.
              Her native brother is Dobrynya Nikitich.
              In those days, only the princes had a middle name.
              So it turns out that Malusha was not just a slave, but a princely daughter.
              1. washi
                washi 29 January 2014 08: 41
                +2
                Quote: anarh
                Quote: Setrac
                Where does the son of a slave come from in a country where there is no slavery?

                In full took more children.
                Her native brother is Dobrynya Nikitich.
                In those days, only the princes had a middle name.
                So it turns out that Malusha was not just a slave, but a princely daughter.

                Not Dobrynya Nikitich, but Dobrynya Khazarin.
                I recommend Lev Rudolfovich Prozorov's book "Pagans of Baptized Russia" about how baptism took place, and his other books about the history of Ancient Russia
          2. ele1285
            ele1285 28 January 2014 21: 01
            0
            [quote = GregAzov [/ quote] Vladimra Malushu (Mulgerdu) [/ quote]
            And what immediately Volodimir (if you read the annals), and not Voldemar? Yes, and not Yaropolk, but Yarogound, and his father was called Sfentoslau.
            You are kind, do not read all crap, and do not cite adyots as an example.
            You wouldn’t be a minus, but drive away, just leave an account.
          3. Andrey57
            Andrey57 29 January 2014 20: 57
            +6
            Rabich, or rather a slave girl, is the son of a slave, as many of her contemporaries called the mother of Vladimra Malusha (Malgerda), but the fatherhood of Svyatoslav has not been disputed by anyone before you.


            You have very peculiar ideas about Russia from the time of Svyatoslav laughing BEFORE THE ROMANOVS, IN RUSSIA, SLAUGHT HAS NOT BEEN !!! There could be no slaves at the court of Svyatoslav! And besides this, there was a custom of adopting adoptive children into the family, after pronouncing the oath of the adoptive father, adopted children were considered equal to their relatives in everything, including the succession to the throne, because contemporaries did not dispute the paternity of Svyatoslav! Mulgerda was a noble Khazarian and held a high position in the management system of the court of the Grand Duke. The Khazars were Jews by religion, and Vladimir was indeed the son of a Jewish priest and Malgerda, many Jewish priests lived in Kiev.
            And the very same princess who refused to Prince Vladimir, Ragned, he first raped in front of her brothers, and then slaughtered her brothers in front of her, then killed her. And for the rape in Russia, right up to Ivan Vasilyevich IV the Great and his Judicial Code, only one punishment was expected - death.
            And about the "great deeds" of Vladimir is written in more than one chronicle.
            So "study materiel", as people like to say on this site, rather than make such inappropriate statements about slavery in Russia.
            1. Andrey57
              Andrey57 29 January 2014 21: 18
              +2
              I forgot to say that regarding Orthodoxy, read the preamble to the Constitution of the Russian Federation - there Orthodoxy and Christianity are not even the same at all.
              1. alexandr00070
                alexandr00070 29 January 2014 21: 26
                +2
                Quote: Andrey57
                then read the preamble to the Constitution of the Russian Federation - there Orthodoxy and Christianity are not even the same at all.

                they need to show, not urge to read
                In the preamble to the Federal Law “On Freedom of Conscience and Religious Associations”, Orthodoxy and Christianity are separated and non-identical, i.e. carry completely different concepts and knowledge:
                “... The Russian Federation is a secular state,
                Recognizing the special role of Orthodoxy in the history of Russia, in the formation and development of its spirituality and culture,
                respecting Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Judaism and other religions, which are an integral part of the historical heritage of the peoples of Russia ... ".
            2. alexandr00070
              alexandr00070 29 January 2014 23: 26
              0
              Quote: Andrey57
              And the very same princess who refused to Prince Vladimir, Ragned, he first raped in front of her brothers, and then killed her brothers in front of her, then killed her.

              Well, an adequate Slav will not do this, such atrocities aren’t in the blood, but kosher rituals, which, by the way, include the murder of Christ
        2. azkolt
          azkolt 28 January 2014 21: 35
          0
          Rabić is the son of a slave, not a rabbi! Already for one reason, yours, and your highest comrade can see the level of your knowledge!
          1. Setrac
            Setrac 28 January 2014 21: 48
            0
            Quote: azkolt
            Rabic is the son of a slave, not a rabbi!

            Well, of course, everything is not so simple, but Vladimir was born not from his wife, but from a concubine from the Khazar Kaganate, where the Jews ruled at that time.
            Sometimes I even think that the Khazar Kaganate is the same "Egypt" from where the Jews were once expelled.
            1. alexandr00070
              alexandr00070 29 January 2014 22: 25
              +2
              Quote: Setrac
              Sometimes I even think that the Khazar Kaganate is the same "Egypt" from where the Jews were once expelled.

              You're right ,
              Despite the fact that the Jewish religion was not proselytic and consistent Talmudists considered professing Jewish aliens to be “a leprosy of Israel,” the conversion of the Khazars to Judaism is an indisputable, albeit exceptional, historical fact. The Cambridge anonym, however, is trying to pass off the Khazar Jews as Jews from the tribe of Simonov, who have forgotten the faith of their ancestors. In the same way, Eldad Gadani considered the Khazars Jews from the Simon tribe and the Manasiev half tribe, who live “in the country of Kozaraim, far from the Head of the rebels, who belonged to the house of David, found refuge in Palestine, but their associates from the Jewish poor, apparently, escaped together with the Iranian Mazdakites, i.e., they fled to the Caucasus. From this point of view, those deviations from the Jewish religion that we observe in Khazaria are easily explained: the lack of traditional isolation, mixed marriages, a meal with other people of other faiths, etc. This contributed to the spread of Jewish religious beliefs among Caucasians.
              --------- The first Khazar prince who accepted Judaism was called Bulan. He removed from his country fortunetellers and idolatrous inhabitants (priests) and convinced other Khazar princes and the supreme prince (kagan?) To accept the new faith. After this, Bulan, according to a suggestion from above, decided to build a temple and, in order to obtain the treasures necessary for this purpose, launched a raid in the Caucasus. The story also mentions the path to Dralam, under which they see Daryal, and the country Ardvil, apparently the center of Arab Azerbaijan is the city of Ardabil. Bulan devastated it and took a large booty, so he built a tent, an ark, a lamp, a table, an altar and sacred vessels.
            2. azkolt
              azkolt 30 January 2014 22: 10
              +2
              Can I find out the source of your knowledge? not a single SERIOUS historian has this1 Different versions have been put forward to the point that Malusha was the daughter of Prince Mala, murdered by Olga,. But I hear your version for the first time, can I find out the sources? Just let’s be serious, people who compose history without having any relation to it, like Belinsky in Ukraine, do not interest me!
          2. Gregazov
            Gregazov 28 January 2014 22: 37
            0
            According to your arguments, the level of your ratings is visible.
            1. Setrac
              Setrac 28 January 2014 22: 49
              +2
              Quote: GregAzov
              According to your arguments, the level of your ratings is visible.

              And what do you think, there was a real country - the Khazar Kaganate, where the Jews ruled, in contrast to the mythical Israel, which until 1953 simply did not exist.
              1. Bezz
                Bezz 28 January 2014 23: 37
                -2
                Quote: Setrac
                Quote: GregAzov
                According to your arguments, the level of your ratings is visible.

                And what do you think, there was a real country - the Khazar Kaganate, where the Jews ruled, in contrast to the mythical Israel, which until 1953 simply did not exist.

                Your opponent is right. Level is minus. State of Israel - Independence Date May 14, 1948 (Iyar 5) (from the UK). Do not judge, but you will not be judged. (From the New Testament, I do not remember more precisely).
                1. Setrac
                  Setrac 28 January 2014 23: 49
                  +6
                  Quote: Bezz
                  Independence Date May 14, 1948

                  Yes, I was up to the pager in 1953 or 1948, the fact that until that moment such a state - Israel - did not exist.
              2. Alexander Romanov
                Alexander Romanov 29 January 2014 04: 25
                0
                Quote: GregAzov
                According to your arguments, the level of your ratings is visible.

                Quote: azkolt
                Rabić is the son of a slave, not a rabbi! Already for one reason, yours, and your highest comrade can see the level of your knowledge!

                Quote: Setrac
                And what do you think, there was a real country - the Khazar Kaganate, where the Jews ruled,

                Quote: anarh
                So it turns out that Malusha was not just a slave, but a princely daughter.

                Quote: GregAzov
                Slavery was in any pagan society.

                Who is what much and everyone on his own mind-finish negative
                1. Ptah
                  Ptah 29 January 2014 06: 02
                  0
                  Sasha, welcome.
                  We accept someone’s side or express your point of view. Or like me, I have to silently observe the dispute. And suddenly there will be serious arguments with links to supporting sources. And so -
                  "How many times have they told the world
                  ...
                  And to the friendly Lisitsyna words
                  The crow croaked its entire throat:
                  The cheese fell out - there was a cheat with it. "

                  / I.A. Krylov /
              3. azkolt
                azkolt 30 January 2014 22: 34
                +1
                Dear, you have very poor knowledge of history, if you are not a provocateur. According to many versions, Jews came to Khazaria from Iran and Khorezm. Before that, they came to power for a short time in the Himyarite kingdom. On the territory of modern Yemen. And wherever they came to power, even tacitly, they began to persecute Christians. Precisely Christians, not pagans! In the Himyarite kingdom where they came to power in 517, they began the most severe persecution of Christians. 340 Christians, representatives of noble families, were killed for refusing to convert to Judaism. And only the intervention of the king of the Christian Kushite kingdom saved the Christians. So read serious historians. read Pigulevskaya, Artamonov, Inostrantsev. All along, Judaism has been the main enemy of Christianity. Even treatises were written about this. For example, John Chrysostom "Against the Jews", I recommend!
                1. alexandr00070
                  alexandr00070 31 January 2014 00: 07
                  0
                  Quote: azkolt
                  so read serious historians

                  of course you have serious rhetoric. for others it’s so --- roadside dust - Jews came from everywhere
                  Since the 6th century, the Khazars have provided shelter in their villages for the Mongol-Turkish Turks, and "they inherited some anthropological and physiological traits from the Turkuts" (1. 373). In the middle of the 7th century, the Khazars gained statehood. As elsewhere in the Caucasus, in their capital, Semender, "there lived Jews who had their own synagogues" (3. 9-64). The Khazar Kaganate settled in one of the important regions of the ecumenical community of those years - at the crossroads of the transcontinental trade route connecting Western Europe with China and the roads from the north of the Great Russian Plain to Baghdad. This was of particular interest to the Jewish trading corporation at that time. At the beginning of the 8th century, rabbis from Byzantium arrived at their co-religionists in Semender, but their mission to convert the Khazars to semi-proselites was unsuccessful. Then the Byzantine rabbis seduced into Judaism the Khazar commander Bulan, who received a new name - Savriel. Then, in 737, Khazaria was attacked by the 150th Arab army, which subjected the Haganat to a brutal pogrom. “The country was devastated. Probably, the situation in the country was seized by the forces associated with the military commander Bulan ”(4. 8). As a result, the ruling kagan was forced to accept Judaism, and provided the Jews with “special advantages” (ibid.). Jewish rahdonite merchants poured into the kaganate.
                  http://www.uznai-pravdu.ru/viewtopic.php?t=807
                  read more
            2. Beaver
              Beaver 29 January 2014 16: 12
              0
              Quote: GregAzov
              According to your arguments, the level of your ratings is visible.

              В laughing high or low?
          3. alexandr00070
            alexandr00070 29 January 2014 21: 56
            +1
            Quote: azkolt
            Rabić is the son of a slave, not a rabbi! Already for one reason, yours, and your highest comrade can see the level of your knowledge!

            this is what Boris Altshuler writes in his book “The Last Secret of Russia”, translated from German, publishing house “NOY”, Moscow, 1996, p. 247.
            “In“ The Tale of Bygone Years ”there is an interesting story about the origin of Vladimir. His mother was the housekeeper Malusha, who called her father MALK (o). There has been a debate among philologists over this text and its interpretation. It is possible that Malusha was in fact Malka, a Khazar woman with a typical Jewish name. And her father Malik (o) Lyub (e) Chanin bore the Hebrew name. If this assumption is true, then it turns out that the baptizer of Russia was (according to the Mosaic Law) a Jew. Here is this famous fragment of the annals of Nestar:

            Quote:
            “And Dobrynya said:“ Ask Volodymera. ” Volodimer was the son of Malusha, the key keeper of Olga. Malusha was the sister of Dobrynia; her father was MALK (o) Lyub (e) chanin, and Dobrynya was uncle Vladimir. ” (Revision by A. Shakhmatov, 1916; revision by V. Adrianova-Peretz, 1950). ”
            From this message it is clear that the father of Malushi and Dobryni was a certain Malk from the city of Lubech - one of the oldest Russian cities, located 202 versts (215 km) from Kiev and 50 versts (about 53 km) from Chernigov and at first paying tribute to the Khazars, and in 882 captured by Oleg. [Now Lubech is the district center of the Chernihiv region] (See: Encyclopedic Dictionary of Brockhaus and Efron. T. XVIII, St. Petersburg, 1896, p. 209.).
            Since '' Malk '' is a Hebrew name, and the matter took place in pre-Christian Russia, this Malk should be considered either a Jew or a Khazar-Judaist (Malch ... Old. Rare. Rep .: Malkhovich, Malkhovna [from Old Hebrew Melekh - king or mal'akh - angel, messenger] (Petrovsky N.A. Dictionary of Russian personal names. M. Soviet encyclopedia, 1965, p. 149.)
      2. Bronis
        Bronis 28 January 2014 19: 13
        +13
        Quote: Andrey57
        Actually, Prince Vladimir was the adopted son of the Grand Duke, his real parents were rabbis, that is, a Jewish priest, and a Khazarian.

        Well, if my memory serves me, I was still the son of Svyatoslav and the housekeeper Malusha. "Named children" without the presence of princely blood did not get a table so easily. dad is not to
        Of course, history is immersed in the darkness of centuries. But such versions are banal "remakes"
      3. azkolt
        azkolt 28 January 2014 21: 33
        0
        Where did you get this nonsense? The source can be in the studio, only warn a serious source. And not from prolific Rodnover sites!
      4. anarh
        anarh 28 January 2014 21: 43
        +3
        Quote: Andrey57
        Actually, Prince Vladimir was the adopted son of the Grand Duke, his rabies were his real parents

        Why so interesting knowledge?
        What ravi brought them to you?
        Again the Internet and articles fabricated overseas?
    3. anarh
      anarh 28 January 2014 21: 26
      +5
      Quote: Ingvar 72
      I do not agree with the author that the pagans and Rodnovers invent cults. This is not entirely true, there is a Rig Veda, there is a Veles book


      The Veles Book (The Vlesova Book, The Book of Veles, The Vles Book, Vlesknig, The Isenbek Board, The Isenbek Board, Veles Book, Vles Book, abbreviated VK) - a written text, first published in the 1950s by Russian emigrants Yu. P. Mirolyubov and Al. Chicken (A. A. Kurenkov) in San Francisco. According to the stories of Mirolyubov, deducted from wooden boards lost during the war, supposedly created around the XNUMXth century.

      DOES NOT ALERT ANYTHING?
      1. First published in the USA in the 50s
      2. No one except the author of these plates have not seen.
      3. For a thousand years, planks existed, but when they fell into the hands of the author, they burned down right away.
      Pardon WHERE HERE IS AUTHORITY?
      An obvious remake, it is clear who ordered it.

      Why are you, as small children, following the "good uncles" from the States?
      Pseudo-evidence from the Internet is also below all criticism.
      Everything is fabricated: thinner or thicker (depending on the audience they appeal to).

      AND ANOTHER ARGUMENT.
      Who is the criticism of liberal domestic and Western media directed at?
      To the Russian Orthodox Church or to neopaganism?
      In other words :
      WHO DOES THE LIBERAL MEDIA SEE ENEMIES?
      IN ORTHODOXY OR NEW PAGANISM?
      All autumn is simple, if you take a closer look.
      1. Bezz
        Bezz 28 January 2014 23: 44
        +2
        The story with the Veles book is a tracing paper from the so-called. books of Mormon. Only there did the gold plates appear to Smith. Now in their heads some kind of "wild porridge".
      2. The comment was deleted.
    4. anarh
      anarh 28 January 2014 21: 31
      +6
      Quote: anarh
      I really liked the compromise of Christianity with pagan roots in Valentin Ivanov, in his third book, Great Russia.

      The very thing.
      Religion based on works of art to study.
      Then only the story based on Hollywood blockbusters.
      1. Bronis
        Bronis 28 January 2014 22: 52
        +1
        Quote: anarh
        Then only the story based on Hollywood blockbusters.

        So long ago! And on - too!
    5. Rink
      Rink 29 January 2014 01: 54
      +2
      Quote: Ingvar 72
      The article is neither a plus nor a minus. ...

      As for me, it's more likely a minus than a plus. Why?
      Although the topic is very interesting, it is still so unsteady and underdeveloped that it is unambiguous to state something, give exact dates and interpret events, which means knowingly deceiving yourself and deceiving others.

      Yes, there is a textbook description of this grandiose event, there are versions of history that are currently considered correct. But these are exactly the versions. They leave so many dark places and inconsistencies that when referring to the primary sources, only one thing becomes clear: historians were unambiguously rushing to declare their "discoveries" as the ultimate truth.

      There is a rather interesting book just on this topic - "WHEN KIEV RUSSIA WAS BAPTIZED?" Bulgarian scientist Jordan Tabov (Neva, Olma-Press, 2003, 416 pp.) Of course, this book does not give a 100% correct, final description of Baptism, but it raises the right questions. With the richest citation of the original ancient documents, it becomes clear how the current version of the history of that time is in poor agreement with them.

      Anyone interested would recommend paying attention to this book.
    6. siberalt
      siberalt 29 January 2014 02: 40
      +2
      I partially agree with you. How is the message of this article essentially different from the statement of the patriarch about pre-Christian Russians as subhumans - "drums" who sat in the swamps? And where did the author get the information that in the Russian Vedic faith it was a tradition to sacrifice babies to wooden idols?
      1. Trapperxnumx
        Trapperxnumx 29 January 2014 11: 35
        +2
        Quote: siberalt
        How is the message of this article essentially different from the statement of the patriarch about pre-Christian Russians as subhumans - "drums" who sat in the swamps?

        When did the patriarch say such a thing?
        1. Kahlan amnell
          Kahlan amnell 3 February 2014 23: 01
          0
          When did the patriarch say such a thing?

          Between 44 and 60 seconds.
          1. Trapperxnumx
            Trapperxnumx 4 February 2014 17: 57
            0
            Quote: Kahlan Amnell
            Between 44 and 60 seconds.

            I have already spoken about this. I will repeat it again. For the Byzantines, all the surrounding non-Byzantines were "barbarians". All the surrounding non-Romans were also "barbarians" for the Romans, and moreover, even for the Chinese during the "opium wars" we were "barbarians". So, the patriarch says that Cyril and Methodius went to the barbarians, this is the view from Byzantium and its inhabitants. They say let's go FIG knows where FIG knows to whom. Moreover, the patriarch himself further, especially for you and those like you, says that the Slavs were not barbarians, but you do not want to hear this.
            And, yes, read about Svyatoslav Igorevich, he also calls all non-Russian tribes "barbarians" there. How to be here?
            1. Kahlan amnell
              Kahlan amnell 7 February 2014 09: 15
              0
              Do not play around! The question was: "When did the patriarch say that?"
              I answered you when.
              smile
              1. Trapperxnumx
                Trapperxnumx 10 February 2014 14: 21
                0
                Quote: Kahlan Amnell
                Do not play around! The question was: "When did the patriarch say that?"
                I answered you when.
                smile

                for 1 min. 36 sec. "but in reality they were never barbarians."
                Everyone hears what he wants. If anyone wants to hear about the "humiliated and insulted" - he will hear about it.
                Sorry if abruptly.
    7. The comment was deleted.
    8. Combitor
      Combitor 29 January 2014 04: 22
      +4
      Quote: Ingvar 72
      The article is neither a plus nor a minus

      The author puts the baptism of Russia for the good. This, perhaps, when viewed from the standpoint of the present. And why did not the author describe what accompanied this baptism? How did Vladimir instill a new faith in the state with fire and sword? How were pagan settlements burned along with all their inhabitants? How did the warriors of Vladimir cut pagan wooden idols and make fires from them?
      And subsequent church reforms, too, could not do in Russia without much blood. The Old Believers burned themselves in wooden log cabins in order not to accept the new rite, which the state and the church also affirmed by the fire and sword in the Russian state.
      So, dear author, if you decide to analyze something, then you need to display all sides. And the "pros" and "cons".
      1. Trapperxnumx
        Trapperxnumx 29 January 2014 11: 32
        +4
        Quote: Kombitor
        How did Vladimir instill a new faith in the state with fire and sword? How were pagan settlements burned along with all their inhabitants?

        Are you delusional? What "fire and sword"? Do you really believe that ONE squad of the prince could really go ALL RUSSIA and force everyone to be baptized ??? Then remember what you did to Prince Igor, and he did not encroach on the foundations and traditions. He only collected tribute. And here are two conclusions - either the Slavs were really not against Christianity, or the Slavs were cowards who, seeing the glint of the sword, rushed into the river to be baptized. Which option do you like best? For me personally - the first, because I did not consider the Slavs and the Russians to be cowards and do not consider them.
        1. alexandr00070
          alexandr00070 29 January 2014 12: 03
          0
          Quote: Trapper7
          Do you really believe that ONE squad of the prince could really go through ALL RUSSIA

          You probably understand the concept of "all Russia" from Kiev to Vladivostok Read the history. The prince was hired, chosen, called up with a squad (professional soldiers) to protect settlements, the rest of the population was engaged in a craft. And when the guarantor of a quiet life relying on bayonets, decides to change Faith, who will tell him what, (in Kushchevka, one family with powers of power, cronies and brothers, kept the whole district in fear (on the territory of the same Kiev region of those years), so talk about the prince with the squad and those democratic laws) take off your rose-colored glasses. For 20 years, such reforms were pushed in, so they bent down and whoever squeaked besides kosher ones, and by the way, religion is being implanted even now from Christianity to United Russia, because the Party is also a clan, a sect, because in order to become a leader (municipal, ... ... fu the word, then what) you MUST join the EP, and then, to please the head of the link, stand higher with a candle at the services with a despondent face (well, then everyone goes to drink (the duty is given to fashion)) so introduce any ideology based on force ................ EASY.
        2. Setrac
          Setrac 29 January 2014 12: 04
          -2
          Quote: Trapper7
          Are you delusional? What "fire and sword"? Do you really believe that ONE squad of the prince could really go ALL RUSSIA and force everyone to be baptized ???

          Behind him was the power of all of Europe, baptists from all Christian countries. There was such a Golden Order among Christians, which was specially created for the Christianization of the Slavs. Apparently, during the Christianization of Russia, the invasion was like under Napoleon or Hitler.
          1. azkolt
            azkolt 30 January 2014 22: 57
            +1
            Nonsense! Archaeologists in one Rostov the Great trace the simultaneous peaceful existence of two ends, Christian and pagan! The pagans were usually Meria, the Slavs Christians. In Kiev, 100 years before the baptism of Rus, whole layers of Christian burial places were found, that is, Kievans not only knew about this religion, but also actively participated in Christian life. There was a temple, it seems in honor of Elijah the prophet, who was later burnt by Svyatoslav. To whom Olga offered to be baptized. He refused on the pretext. that he was ridiculed by a squad recruited in the northern lands, where Christianity had not yet reached. I repeat again, read serious literature!
        3. shind
          shind 29 January 2014 17: 06
          +4
          Are you delusional? What "fire and sword"?


          And when they destroyed almost everyone who remembered how our ancestors lived, they took up books about our ancient culture. Under Aleksei Mikhailovich, they burned so many books that they took away some copper buckles with bonfires. What for? What was there in these books? And as the Solovetsky Monastery did not want to give its books and was besieged for more than six years, and when it could not survive and was taken, all who were there were outweighed and the books burned. But what kind of books are such that people gave their lives for them! And then there was the creation of the Russian Academy, where during the first 100 years there were practically no Russian history scholars (only three). And foreign academics had free access to any archive. And what they did there, we now know. They destroyed our memory and knowledge that our ancestors left. And how did Lomonosov begin to protest, and for this whole year he sat in casemates? For what? What would we remember - WHO WE ARE. And religion has its own interests. Until we repent from the priests, we will be slaves and sheep. I am for restoring bit by bit the knowledge of our ancestors, and asking myself more questions and looking for answers to them. Remember, we are RUSES!
          1. alexandr00070
            alexandr00070 29 January 2014 17: 21
            0
            Quote: shind
            And as the Solovetsky Monastery did not want to give its books and was besieged for more than six years, and when it could not stand it and was taken, all who were there were outweighed and the books burned.

            almost everything is true, only this was under Peter 1
            1. shind
              shind 29 January 2014 21: 31
              +2
              And under Peter 1, not only that was. In December 1699, decree N1735 was issued according to which the Slavic Vedic calendar, and then went 7208 from the creation of the world, was canceled and the count of years was begun from 1700. So with one stroke of the pen, we took 5508 years. And now we don’t remember anything. And the phrase “creation of the world” then signified the end of the most difficult war. And they exhort us that we are wild. And we speak the RUSSIAN language, where each word has its own internal meaning. And to create such a language - both for the research of geneticists and for the study of linguists - it takes more than one hundred thousand years. And then what kind of worldview did our ancestors have? What did they know about the world around them? What did you know how to do? And we all argue about Christianity. Yes, everything was taken away from us - both memory and knowledge! Now our greatest wealth is our RUSSIAN language! A lot of what is hidden there. Wake up RUS!
              1. Setrac
                Setrac 29 January 2014 21: 46
                0
                Quote: shind
                Vedic calendar, and then 7208 was from the creation of the world,

                I will clarify from the Creation of the World in the Star Temple.
                1. alexandr00070
                  alexandr00070 29 January 2014 23: 28
                  0
                  Quote: Setrac
                  I will clarify from the Creation of the World in the Star Temple.

                  I will also do my bit, as you said with a demotivator
              2. Trapperxnumx
                Trapperxnumx 30 January 2014 10: 13
                +1
                Quote: shind
                And under Peter 1, not only that was. In December 1699, a decree N1735 was issued according to which the Slavic Vedic calendar, and then 7208 was the year from the creation of the world, was canceled and the counting of years was started from 1700. So with one stroke of the pen 5508 years were taken from us. And now we don’t remember anything.

                Well, please do not generalize)))
                And by the way, nothing that these same 5508 years completely coincide with the Bible date? And the fact that the Church, as it were, did not refuse this date and continues to use it. So not everything is so bad, just knowledge needs to be expanded in all directions, and not in one only. I think you will find many more interesting discoveries)))
                1. shind
                  shind 30 January 2014 16: 26
                  +4
                  The dates are different. There is simply a suppression of information. For example, the Chandar plate with an accurate geographic map on it is dated to be more than 100 thousand years old, and the Slavic settlement of Kostenki, near Voronezh, is 50-62 thousand years old. And also a very interesting book by VA Chudinov "Russian Runes"!
                  How old is actually the SLAVIC KIND? And how many of them did he live guided by his conscience, without Christianization? Now war after war, extermination of people after extermination.
                  And now the most interesting is our history textbook, both old and new. It is he who is called to educate the patriot and defender of the Fatherland. And what can be read about the life of the Slavs before 988? We were wild. Where is the truth? Without Truth there will be nothing. We can quickly live to see our maidan in Moscow.
                  1. abrakadabre
                    abrakadabre 31 January 2014 10: 52
                    0
                    The dates are different. There is simply a suppression of information. For example, the Chandar plate with an accurate geographic map on it is dated to be more than 100 thousand years old, and the Slavic settlement of Kostenki, near Voronezh, is 50-62 thousand years old. And also a very interesting book by VA Chudinov "Russian Runes"!
                    Urgently galloperidol! Aggravation!

                    1. The STONE from which the slab you mentioned is made not thousands, but many millions of years. 100 thousand years old, the image on this stove is put only by alternative kitchen "scientists". With the same success, I can state that since the age of the granite of the paving stones of the Red Square is millions of years, the area itself is the same age. wassat
                    2. Kostenki - never one parking lot. There are up to 14 cultural layers with different dates. The upper layer "Kostenki-1" dates back 20-22 thousand years. The earliest "Kostenki-14" is up to 40-42 thousand years old. And than. Who calls this object Slavic ?! belay fool
                    Let’s not be shy, just call ancient UKR. It’s for them today we have 100 thousand years.
                    March to school (even if the age has not been school for a long time)!

                    You can live up to the Moscow Maidan only if there are a lot of such HISToriks (as well as Inzhinerov, Aesculapius and other professions). God forbid!
                    1. shind
                      shind 3 February 2014 20: 50
                      +1
                      The first Chandar plate was discovered in 1999 by the professor of Bashkir University Alexander Chuvyrov. On the plate is a three-dimensional map of the Bashkir mountains. The plate consists of three layers: the lower one is dolomite, the middle one is a material similar to diopside glass, and the upper one is very durable calcium porcelain. The middle layer - this is the relief map of the area, made with all the hills, canyons, deep reliefs of water spaces. The method of creating the middle layer is unknown to modern science. According to experts from the Center for Historical Cartography from the United States, such a map could only be created using aerospace imagery. To study the Chandar Plate, a commission was created from the chairman - world chess champion Anatoly Karpov, as well as famous scientists such as the rector of Moscow State University Viktor Sadovnichy and member of the Presidium of the Siberian Branch of the Russian Academy of Sciences Anatoly Derevyanko, as well as a number of representatives of the Russian Academy of Sciences and the Russian Academy of Natural Sciences. The efforts of A. Karpov organized space photography. At the request of the Military Topographical Directorate of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Russia, a response dated December 1, 2007, signed by the head of the department, Lieutenant General Valery Filatov, was received: (I give an excerpt) “At your request, the submitted materials were examined to identify the surface depicted on the stone slab , and work was carried out to study the archaeological find. On this issue, we report the following. A relief is depicted on the surface of the slab, which generally corresponds to the southwestern spurs of the Bashkir upland with some displacement of the channels of the water arteries of the indicated region. ”
                      And here are some more reviews.
                      Vladimir Karandashov, member of the commission, full member of the Russian Academy of Natural Sciences: - “An exciting problem. I think the fragment is man-made. And it belonged to an ancient civilization, about which we still do not know anything. "
                      Denis Vasiliev, Ph.D. in Physics and Mathematics, specialist in theoretical mechanics, lecturer at Bashkir State University: - The “farm” depicted on the map is a huge work of a planetary scale. At the current level of scientific and technological progress, such facilities cannot be built in a short period of time. Their creators either lived long or owned amazing technology. ”
                      A large article on this topic was published in Komsomolskaya Pravda in 2009. A lot of interesting information about the time of creating the middle layer of the slab can be found on the Internet.
                      You, abrakadabre, obviously do not want the truth about the Chandar plate and the map placed on it to become public. You probably have the truth of the ancient about the culture of Russia - across the throat. And the appearance of an article on baptism .. on IN direct evidence of this. Other times are coming.
        4. shind
          shind 29 January 2014 17: 06
          0
          Are you delusional? What "fire and sword"?


          And when they destroyed almost everyone who remembered how our ancestors lived, they took up books about our ancient culture. Under Aleksei Mikhailovich, they burned so many books that they took away some copper buckles with bonfires. What for? What was there in these books? And as the Solovetsky Monastery did not want to give its books and was besieged for more than six years, and when it could not survive and was taken, all who were there were outweighed and the books burned. But what kind of books are such that people gave their lives for them! And then there was the creation of the Russian Academy, where during the first 100 years there were practically no Russian history scholars (only three). And foreign academics had free access to any archive. And what they did there, we now know. They destroyed our memory and knowledge that our ancestors left. And how did Lomonosov begin to protest, and for this whole year he sat in casemates? For what? What would we remember - WHO WE ARE. And religion has its own interests. Until we repent from the priests, we will be slaves and sheep. I am for restoring bit by bit the knowledge of our ancestors, and asking myself more questions and looking for answers to them. Remember, we are RUSES!
          1. nerd.su
            nerd.su 30 January 2014 17: 51
            0
            Try Phenibut, dear.
    9. Sergey XXX
      Sergey XXX 29 January 2014 05: 38
      -3
      The author reminded us that Christianity (in comparison with previous religious worldviews) rallied our people, consolidated statehood, raised morality to a higher level, invested in us everything that we still live in our souls and now, whether or not we believe in of God, and pointed out that the part of our people that is trying to return the lost ancient faith or is looking for another, does not just fall into heresy, but takes a step back to the primitive in everything FOR THE END OF OUR ENEMIES. In this sense, the call is timely (perhaps even late) and deserves the attention of both believers and atheists. Plus the article.
      1. Sergey XXX
        Sergey XXX 31 January 2014 18: 41
        +1
        He wrote common truths ..., but supporters of ideas like Fomenko and Nosovsky seem to be minus. Indeed :-)) we become like "ancient ukram". And sects always, according to the results, not only become a tool for pumping out money (almost all human associations sin with this), but also act contrary to the interests of the state, and more often directly to the detriment, regardless of the clothes in which they dress.
  2. RUSS
    RUSS 28 January 2014 15: 45
    +8
    Recently I read an article that the number of Orthodox Christians in Africa is growing, especially in Kenya, and so it means "The Russian Land will grow in Africa."
    1. Setrac
      Setrac 28 January 2014 16: 49
      -1
      Quote: RUSS
      Recently I read an article that the number of Orthodox Christians in Africa is growing, especially in Kenya, and so it means "The Russian Land will grow in Africa."

      The number of Orthodox Christians is apparently growing. Here the main word is "Christians", not "Orthodox". Unfortunately, the Russian Orthodox Church has long been NOT ORTHODOX. It's just called that.
      1. Salamander
        Salamander 28 January 2014 17: 33
        -2
        Quote: Setrac
        Quote: RUSS
        Recently I read an article that the number of Orthodox Christians in Africa is growing, especially in Kenya, and so it means "The Russian Land will grow in Africa."

        The number of Orthodox Christians is apparently growing. Here the main word is "Christians", not "Orthodox". Unfortunately, the Russian Orthodox Church has long been NOT ORTHODOX. It's just called that.


        Interestingly, and what religion is not only called, but also undeniably Orthodox? It is impossible to prove whether the religion is Orthodox or not. Everyone decides for himself.
        1. atalef
          atalef 28 January 2014 17: 39
          +3
          Quote: Salamander
          Interestingly, and what religion is not only called, but also undeniably Orthodox?

          In general, the natives of Australia call themselves * the only real people * - and believe in it.
          In general, the Orthodox are called everywhere - the Orthodox Christians.
          In the official language of the church and state on the territory of Russia, the term "Orthodox" began to be used in the late XIV - early XV centuries, and the most active terms "Orthodox" and "Orthodoxy" came into use in the XVI century. [11] In relation to the concept of “faith”, the ancient annalistic sources also used such epithets as “immaculate”, “Christian”, “right”, “orthodox”, “God”, “true”, “God-given”, “pious”, “ the most pure ”, etc. [11]
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 28 January 2014 17: 56
            +3
            Quote: atalef
            In general, the Orthodox are called everywhere - the Orthodox Christians.

            The term Orthodoxy comes from two terms - Praise the Right.
            1. Zapasnoy
              Zapasnoy 28 January 2014 20: 03
              +5
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              The term Orthodoxy comes from two terms - Praise the Right

              You get some kind of neopaganism, do not read all sorts of pagan sites. Orthodoxy as a term comes from the words correctly (i.e., true) to praise (of course, God).
              In the official language of the church and the state on the territory of Russia, the term "Orthodox" began to be used in the late XIV - early XV centuries, and the most actively used terms "Orthodox" and "Orthodoxy" in the XVI century (Kolosov V.A., Pavlova T. I. On the etymology of the terms “Orthodox” and “Orthodoxy”).
              The words "Orthodox" and "Orthodox" (as applied to faith) are synonymous.
              Actually important is not the etymology and pun, but their meaning.
              1. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 28 January 2014 20: 19
                +5
                Quote: Zapasnoy
                Actually important is not the etymology and pun, but their meaning.

                Some time ago, the word L.O.X was an abbreviation of the whole sentence, and was circulated only among criminals. Now it is pronounced on TV, and made a synonym for the words of a simpleton. So the meaning of the words is changing. The etymology of the Russian language conceals a much deeper meaning of words than it seems at first glance. hi
              2. Gregazov
                Gregazov 28 January 2014 21: 21
                +7
                I support you and want to add a little that historically Orthodoxy as a term appears after an attempt to conclude a treacherous union between the western and eastern churches.
                The meaning of Uniate becomes clear from the Creed, which lists all the dogmas of the Church. Among them is the ONE APOSTOLIC CHURCH. Hence, the true Christian church must have continuity from the apostles and not be separated, as the Western church did.
                1. abrakadabre
                  abrakadabre 29 January 2014 11: 36
                  +2
                  The meaning of Uniate becomes clear from the Creed, which lists all the dogmas of the Church.
                  The meaning of Uniatism is different. Dogmatic design is only an external decent design of economic and political motives.

                  On the part of the Popes, this is a desire to subordinate Orthodoxy to their jurisdiction. Both politically and materially.

                  On the part of the Uniate Church, this is a compromise recognition of one’s own weakness and a desire to become a full-fledged elite in the then Commonwealth. And do not suffer from bending down by the Polish authorities and the Catholic branch of Christianity. It’s a compromise because, firstly, for half a century, within the framework of Orthodoxy, they shouted that the Pope was a schismatic and a radish and taught this to their parishioners — turning backward is dumb for pride, and secondly, parishioners may not understand such a sharp turn in the doctrine and politics of the church and they can put on a count - which is very painful and does not contribute to longevity.
              3. alexandr00070
                alexandr00070 29 January 2014 12: 27
                +1
                Quote: Zapasnoy
                In the official language of the church and state on the territory of Russia, the term "Orthodox" began to be used in the late XIV - early XV centuries, and the most active terms "Orthodox" and "Orthodoxy" came into use in the XVI century


                And you are aware that Christianity in Russia was long before the introduction of your terms in the late XIV - early XV centuries, you are aware that there are annals and other sources that reveal the lives of Christians in Russia from the 800s and earlier. Too little to argue
                1. Setrac
                  Setrac 29 January 2014 12: 37
                  -2
                  Quote: alexandr00070
                  And you are aware that Christianity in Russia was long before the introduction of your terms in the late XIV - early XV centuries, you are aware that there are annals and other sources that reveal the lives of Christians in Russia from the 800s and earlier. Too little to argue

                  You see, there is an astronomical object that allows you to accurately date the "Nativity of Christ" - this is what the Bible calls the "Star of Bethlehem" and now it is the Crab Nebula.
                  About a thousand years ago, a supernova exploded relatively near the Earth, which apparently was called the Star of Bethlehem on the Earth, now an expanding Crab nebula in that place.
                  Apparently the history of religion in a single god will have to be reviewed.
                  1. abrakadabre
                    abrakadabre 29 January 2014 13: 18
                    +3
                    You see, there is an astronomical object that allows you to accurately date the "Nativity of Christ" - this is what the Bible calls the "Star of Bethlehem" and now it is the Crab Nebula.
                    Everything is clear about your linguistic knowledge :)
                    Do not meddle in astronomy. Everything is much more complicated there than you think so. And God forbid you (or Gd, or Perun, as you prefer) to connect the Crab Nebula (M1) with the Star of Bethlehem.
                    Better go to the library more often.
                    lol
                    1. Setrac
                      Setrac 29 January 2014 13: 24
                      -2
                      Quote: abrakadabre
                      And God forbid you (or Gd, or Perun, as you prefer) to connect the Crab Nebula (M1) with the Star of Bethlehem.

                      And what is stopping you? Are there any more serious arguments besides your reluctance?
                      1. abrakadabre
                        abrakadabre 29 January 2014 13: 53
                        +1
                        And what is stopping you? Are there any more serious arguments besides your reluctance?
                        Serious arguments are in the library. This is no less than a couple of shelves of weighty books in several branches of knowledge for serious study. The format of the forum will not allow to state these arguments here in full. And the level of your trust in the knowledge accumulated by official science will not allow you to take it for now. Go for it! Seeker let him find it.
                      2. Setrac
                        Setrac 29 January 2014 14: 02
                        0
                        Quote: abrakadabre
                        And the level of your trust in the knowledge accumulated by official science will not allow you to take it for now.

                        Nobody in science except you operates with such concepts as trust, in science there is evidence, or there is none, trust has nothing to do with it.
                        Quote: abrakadabre
                        Serious arguments are in the library.

                        Well, of course, someone doubted if you don’t have your own opinion why are you writing something here, the writers' opinion can be learned without your participation.
                      3. Beaver
                        Beaver 29 January 2014 16: 15
                        -1
                        Quote: abrakadabre
                        Serious arguments are in the library.

                        Go to the library, take an astronomy textbook and read. Science says it is an event - a new explosion.
                      4. abrakadabre
                        abrakadabre 30 January 2014 09: 13
                        +1
                        Go, go. And read about the M1. And about the dates of observation of the outbreak, and about the observations of this phenomenon, reflected in the annals of different peoples, and much more ...
                        It is enough for me to reach out and remove a book from the bookshelf in order to refresh one moment or another, date or formula in my memory. And astronomy, and history, and religions of the world, and much more.

                        Don’t teach me. I myself have been doing this every day for over thirty years in a row. And everyone is not tired of learning new things.

                        It is painful to look at this terry dawn of militant pseudoscience.
                2. Setrac
                  Setrac 29 January 2014 13: 25
                  -2
                  Quote: abrakadabre
                  Better go to the library more often.

                  Talk to women more often.
                  1. abrakadabre
                    abrakadabre 29 January 2014 13: 56
                    +2
                    Talk to women more often.
                    Thank. Daily. Married, you know.
              4. alexandr00070
                alexandr00070 30 January 2014 11: 09
                0
                Quote: Setrac
                Apparently the history of religion in a single god will have to be reviewed.

                probably in the framework of another site, today I was reset and all comments were deleted, the dream of A. Romanov came true
            2. abrakadabre
              abrakadabre 29 January 2014 13: 09
              0
              Christianity in Russia was long before the introduction of your terms
              It was, but it was not the state religion.
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. anarh
          anarh 28 January 2014 21: 56
          +3
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          The term Orthodoxy comes from two terms - Praise the Right.

          Well no.
          RIGHT GLORY.
        4. abrakadabre
          abrakadabre 29 January 2014 11: 14
          -1
          The term Orthodoxy comes from two terms - Praise the Right.
          Bullshit. Sorry for the expressiveness. They would be ashamed to exhibit such nonsense.
          Orthodox (s, -naya) is a literal translation of the Greek term "orthodox", meaning "correct teaching." With regard to Christianity - the original, not accepting the errors accumulated in dogmas and rituals.

          By the way, our Orthodox Church officially considers itself Orthodox Catholic (or Catholic). Which in translation from Greek means the Correct (initial) Universal (universal)... The current Catholic Church, headed by the bishop (archbishop) of Rome, the Pope, calls itself the same way. The Orthodox Church dignity "patriarch" is essentially translated into Russian as PAPA (father). So, if all the terms are translated into one language, then along with the Pope in Europe, the Pope of Moscow is in charge of our religion. The Pope of Constantinople is sitting in Istanbul. And there are also the patriarchs of Antioch, Jerusalem, and God forbid the memory of another 12-15 such Popes.

          If we discard all dogmatic husk, then the schism of the church in the 11th century revolved not around dogmas, but around banal dough and power. In this vein, the positions of the parties come down to:

          1. Bishop of Rome (aka the archbishop of Rome, aka the Pope) - I am the most important Christian - the viceroy of God on earth. The rest of the Christians, including bishops of all ranks, are my subordinates and must obey me. I must steer the church tithe on a global scale. And whoever is against is a schismatic or even a heretic. Anathema, bonfire and other intelligible arguments cry for this.

          1. The Bishop of Constantinople (aka the Archbishop of Constantinople, aka the Patriarch of Constantinople) - a bishop of Rome with his claims to the primacy and to our share the dough from church tithes takes on unnecessary and can go to x ... or w ... looking for personal preferences. Each bishop (or archbishop) in his diocese is the most important and his own viceroy of God on earth and a shepherd of souls of parishioners. The dough and the authorities will not give up. With best wishes hellish torment for pride and money-grubbing ... Anathema to help him ...

          All other insinuations are nonsense. Your version is from laziness in self-education, or from excessive consumption of substances.
          1. Setrac
            Setrac 29 January 2014 11: 38
            -4
            Quote: abrakadabre
            Orthodox (s, -naya) is a literal translation of the Greek term "orthodox", meaning "correct teaching."

            An interesting word is ORTHODOX, ortho is direct, correct, and dox is opinion, teaching. And let's look for one-root words: HORT, ORD, ORDER, ORDnung, aORT, CHART.
            Orthodox can still be understood as the teachings of the horde, or the Horde religion.
            1. abrakadabre
              abrakadabre 29 January 2014 12: 02
              +2
              An interesting word is ORTHODOX, ortho is direct, correct, and dox is opinion, teaching. And let's look for one-root words: HORT, ORD, ORDER, ORDnung, aORT, CHART.
              Orthodox can still be understood as the teachings of the horde, or the Horde religion.
              Oh, how everything is running!
              You also proclaim the English "CUNT" and the Turkic "KANT" in the same root words. And on the basis of this pair of words, invent a theory about the relationship between the Anglo-Saxons and the Turks. And also about the philosophical allegory and synonymy of these two concepts.
              1. Setrac
                Setrac 29 January 2014 12: 07
                0
                Quote: abrakadabre
                And invent on the basis of this couple of words the theory of the relatedness of the Anglo-Saxons and Turks.

                What does the Türks have to do with the word Horde? This is not a Turkic word.
                1. abrakadabre
                  abrakadabre 29 January 2014 12: 25
                  +1
                  What does the Türks have to do with the word Horde? This is not a Turkic word.
                  And where does the series you cited here:
                  Horde, ORDER, ORDnung, aorta,

                  Clinic, in a word.
                  Why do you take the word "Türks" cited by me out of the given context and insert it into your own context? Let's not discuss the origin of the word "horde".
                  Your discussion technique is an example of demagogy.
                  1. Setrac
                    Setrac 29 January 2014 12: 31
                    -2
                    Quote: abrakadabre
                    Why do you take the word "Türks" cited by me out of the given context and insert it into your own context?

                    There is nothing to answer, you do not affirm anything, you do not refute anything.

                    Quote: abrakadabre
                    You still proclaim the English "CUNT" and the Turkic "KANT" in the same root words.

                    Do not tell me what to do and I won’t tell you where to go.

                    Quote: abrakadabre
                    You still proclaim the English "CUNT" and the Turkic "KANT" in the same root.

                    They are clearly of the same root, and why do you think that these two words have different origins?
                  2. abrakadabre
                    abrakadabre 29 January 2014 13: 20
                    +2
                    They are clearly of the same root, and why do you think that these two words have different origins?

                    So, knowing the translation of both words, vague doubts torment me. And you?
                  3. Setrac
                    Setrac 29 January 2014 13: 27
                    -3
                    Quote: abrakadabre
                    Yes, knowing the translation of both words

                    I'm happy for you.

                    Quote: abrakadabre
                    vague doubts torment me.

                    And for you too.
                  4. abrakadabre
                    abrakadabre 29 January 2014 14: 00
                    +2
                    Quote: abrakadabre
                    Yes, knowing the translation of both words

                    I'm happy for you.

                    Quote: abrakadabre
                    vague doubts torment me.

                    And for you too.

                    Eeeee, finish with the substances ...
                  5. Setrac
                    Setrac 29 January 2014 14: 16
                    0
                    Quote: abrakadabre
                    Eeeee, finish with the substances ...

                    Well, how can you call blAgAnous grass "substances".
      2. alexandr00070
        alexandr00070 29 January 2014 14: 10
        +1
        Quote: abrakadabre
        You still proclaim the English "CUNT" and the Turkic "KANT" in the same root words.

        you read at least one book about the history of the area where Russia and Europe formed, the history of the formation of languages, the history of the migration of peoples in this territory, the genetic studies of the peoples of these territories, and then make statements. (You will make many discoveries for yourself ( just for fun, the chain ...... the Anglo-Saxons defeated the Britons .... and before that they were under Attila (according to some sources, Turk) -that's your KANT in the English dictionary ... then the German tribes rebelled, after Attila’s death, and then left for Britain, but the words could have stayed .. you couldn’t deny it.
        1. abrakadabre
          abrakadabre 29 January 2014 14: 48
          +1
          here and your KANT in the English dictionary
          Do you know the translation of both words?
          CUNT (English) - a swear word, meaning that a woman has between her legs. Therefore, all English-speaking neigh when they hear that the Russian base in Kyrgyzstan is located in Kant.
          KANT (Turk.) - sugar. The city of the same name, founded in 1934 and where the Russian base in Kyrgyzstan is located, is named after the sugar factory.
          1. Setrac
            Setrac 29 January 2014 14: 58
            -1
            Quote: abrakadabre
            swear word, meaning that the woman has between her legs. Therefore, all English-speaking neigh when they hear that the Russian base in Kyrgyzstan is located in Kant.

            Do you think the woman has something bad between her legs? Interestingly, and these your "English-speaking" have sex, or are they already all homosexual and the fact that a woman between her legs is bad for them?
          2. Beaver
            Beaver 29 January 2014 16: 17
            -2
            Quote: Setrac
            Do you think a woman has something bad between her legs?

            Two misogynists put down the cons.
  • alexandr00070
    alexandr00070 29 January 2014 13: 40
    +1
    Quote: abrakadabre
    the schism of the church in the 11th century revolved not around dogmas, but around banal dough and power.

    Your position is not clear, you have now omitted the main priests, and criticized your opponent for "paganism", who are you, who are you for. UNCERTAIN. And the Church of Christ was originally called ... ... the Catholic Church ... but then just that and the paths diverged, the Catholics say that they are true and fool people by setting them up for enmity to other areas of Christianity, the "Orthodox", in turn, set their adherents to irreconcilably defend their .. true position. And you just took and revealed the real reasons for the enmity ...........
    1. abrakadabre
      abrakadabre 29 January 2014 14: 12
      +1
      Your position is incomprehensible
      Yes, everything seems clear. My position - "The sleep of reason gives birth to monsters"
      smile
      Whether it be Perun-shaped monsters, Vedic Torah, or Quranic or Orthodox-Catholic, does not matter. These are just skins. The bottom line is that monsters are monsters. Some are more toothy in our time, others are more harmless. Give any of them power, strength and impunity, all will show their essence.
      1. The comment was deleted.
  • Andrey57
    Andrey57 29 January 2014 21: 45
    +2
    By the way, our Orthodox Church officially considers itself Orthodox Catholic (or Catholic). Which in translation from Greek means the Correct (initial) Universal (universal).

    Catholic - means correct or faithful
  • azkolt
    azkolt 30 January 2014 23: 06
    0
    A bit wrong. By that time, a mistake in translating the Creed into Latin led to the appearance of a fileokwe, which means the descent of the Holy Spirit from Jesus Christ, which later led to the recognition of the immaculate conception of the Virgin Mary. With what the Eastern Church could not agree. Although the material question was also present
    1. alexandr00070
      alexandr00070 31 January 2014 00: 09
      0
      Quote: azkolt
      With what the Eastern Church could not agree. Although the material question was also present

      the main question is the main thing in the Jewish faith
    2. abrakadabre
      abrakadabre 4 February 2014 10: 50
      0
      With what the Eastern Church could not agree. Although the material question was also present
      The material and dogmatic parts of the problem were equal. Because at that time there were no unbelieving atheists. Especially in the leadership of the church. Everyone believed. But the blessed ones, for whom the material and power component, categorically could not advance to high posts in the bureaucratic church machine. Just because of the lack of ambition. And they sat so blessed in monasteries, deserts, and other hermitages. A terry careerists steered from religion. Therefore, material and power were not an empty sound for them. Again, by virtue of ambition.
      So it was, is and will be at all times.
  • alexandr00070
    alexandr00070 29 January 2014 12: 20
    +1
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    The term Orthodoxy comes from two terms - Praise the Right.

    Damn I never thought that I would stand up for a man with the Israeli flag, and so in the phrase itself he is right (In foreign sources they say so: Russian Orthodox Church.)
    The site http://krotov.info examined in detail the question of how "orthodoxy" was transformed into "Orthodoxy". 79 annalistic documents are analyzed and the following conclusions are made:

    1. In the documents of the XIV century, in relation to the concept of “faith”, the term Orthodoxy does not occur, but epithets are applied - true, Christian, right and true. But when describing the life of Alexander Nevsky, the term Orthodox is used, but Alexander Nevsky was a “pagan” for Christians;
    2. In the Tale of Bygone Years on the Lavrentievsky List, the term Orthodox faith is used to describe the dangers of the sorcery and death of Prince Oleg the Prophet (912), i.e. several decades before the baptism of Russia (!);
    3. Until the XNUMXth century, the term “faithful” occurs much more often than “Orthodox,” then a gradual replacement of the terms begins;
    4. Since the sixteenth century, the tendency to replace terms has markedly increased, and the terms are sometimes used inappropriately, which can be considered as a result of their targeted introduction “from above”, without a full understanding of the meaning. The term "Orthodox" includes already 29 concepts, including the concept of "land". Everyone who professes Christianity is beginning to be considered Orthodox, even Moses is called Orthodox;
    5. By the beginning of the XVII century, the use of the term “faithful” had practically ceased;

    In the XVII century, there was a split in the “Russian Church”. Many believe that the true goal of the reforms of Patriarch Nikon was precisely to erase from the memory of the people the original meaning of the Right of Orthodoxy, to end the period of double faith, when faithful Christians coexisted tolerantly and with respect for each other, or as Old Believers - Righteous Christians call themselves, and Old Believers - Orthodox Slavs.
    1. abrakadabre
      abrakadabre 29 January 2014 13: 32
      0
      This is written in foreign sources: Russian Orthodox Church
      It makes no sense to breed such a complicated theory. It is enough to simply translate all three words into the RUSSIAN language:
      Russian - Russian (translation from English)
      Orthodox - Orthodox (or Orthodox, if you want - a word borrowed from Greek)
      Church - church (translated from English)

      And you don’t have to invent anything abstruse.
      1. alexandr00070
        alexandr00070 29 January 2014 15: 05
        0
        Quote: abrakadabre
        It is enough to simply translate all three words into the RUSSIAN language:

        orthodox adjective

        Orthodox -orthodox
        orthodox -orthodox
        Orthodox - faithful
        generally accepted --- 0common, conventional, accepted, standard, general, orthodox

        when translating everything became clear
        1. abrakadabre
          abrakadabre 29 January 2014 15: 12
          0
          when translating everything became clear
          Q.E.D. And as you can see, without any detailed excursions to distant distances
          1. alexandr00070
            alexandr00070 29 January 2014 15: 38
            0
            Quote: abrakadabre
            Q.E.D. And as you can see, without any detailed excursions to distant distances

            that is, you are not confused by the multiple translation of this word and the interpretation of each translation as a dogma

            Orthodoxy (from the Greek ὀρθοδοξία - "direct opinion", "direct teaching", "orthodoxy"; <Greek όςρθός ("direct", "correct") + δόξα ("to think", "to believe", "opinion" [1 ])) - firmness in faith or adherence to any doctrine or worldview, support for accepted positions, conservatism [2], a type of religious consciousness, as opposed to any modernism and reformism. In a broad sense, orthodoxy is a religious or philosophical position that is believed to be exactly in accordance with the literal and original understanding of a particular teaching. In such cases, they talk about the orthodox Christian faith, Judaism, Islam, various directions of Buddhism, Lutheranism, Marxism.
            Here about Orthodoxy is not a word
            In Christianity, "orthodoxy" implies a steady adherence to the dogmas of faith, the foundations of dogma and basic traditions. At the same time, the external sides of the ritual side and the insignificant local traditions can change, accepted by the hierarchy and believers.
            In the scientific literature on the history of Christianity, “orthodoxy” refers to the supporters of the Nicene Creed, “Nicene”, as a contrast to the Arians [4]. This expression is not related to the modern contrast between Orthodoxy and Catholicism that arose after the Great schism, and is used synonymously with the term "Catholics" (in the Russian tradition also "catholics").
            Afiget how everything became clear
            The earliest written use of the word “Orthodoxy” on the territory of Russia is recorded in the “Word on Law and Grace” (1037-1050) of Metropolitan Hilarion:
  • Yura
    Yura 28 January 2014 22: 55
    +4
    Quote: atalef
    In general, the natives of Australia call themselves * the only real people * - and believe in it.

    Perhaps the English at one time when they found out about this they were very offended by this and did not consider the native Australians to be people at all, and since the mainland is empty and does not belong to anyone, then the state that discovered it was declaring it to be its territory according to the then laws. This is just a joke .... although not everywhere. smile
  • The comment was deleted.
  • antinon
    antinon 28 January 2014 20: 59
    +7
    Hello.
    In Russia, Orthodox Christians called themselves true believers, and the Orthodox denomination called the Orthodox Christian faith. The word "Orthodoxy" was first mentioned in the "Epistle of Metropolitan Photius of Pskov", 1410-1417, the phrase "Orthodox Christianity" - in the Pskov First Chronicle in 1450. The replacement of the name "Christian Orthodox Faith" with "Orthodoxy" was carried out during the reforms of Patriarch Nikon in the 17th century.
    1. alexandr00070
      alexandr00070 29 January 2014 14: 12
      0
      Quote: antinon
      The replacement of the name "Christian Orthodox Faith" with "Orthodoxy" was carried out during the reforms of Patriarch Nikon in the 17th century.

      Well, short and clear
  • Andrey57
    Andrey57 28 January 2014 18: 11
    +5
    Actually, the term "Orthodox" was introduced into everyday life by Joseph Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili, until the Soviet era it was never called such fellow
    If you are not too lazy to find in Tyrnet the pre-revolutionary name of the Russian Church, then you will be surprised a lot laughing since she was Orthodox .... and not Orthodox. Orthodoxy, as the faith of the ancestors who praised the Right, has nothing to do with Christianity; Orthodoxy was destroyed by the Romanovs, who carried out church reform for this. at the same time, Orthodox and Old Believers fell under the hand.
    1. anarh
      anarh 28 January 2014 22: 09
      +3
      Quote: Andrey57
      Actually, the term "Orthodox" was introduced into everyday life by Joseph Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili, until the Soviet era it was never called such


      Yes Yes .
      And for the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad, too, JV Stalin coined the name.
      Where do you gain such exotic knowledge?
  • Gregazov
    Gregazov 28 January 2014 19: 40
    +2
    It is very interesting who and when deprived Orthodoxy of the Russian Church. If possible in more detail with facts, dates and surnames.
    1. Setrac
      Setrac 28 January 2014 19: 50
      -6
      Quote: GregAzov
      It is very interesting who and when deprived Orthodoxy of the Russian Church. If possible in more detail with facts, dates and surnames.

      She deprived herself of herself, Nikonean reform, much more!
      1. Gregazov
        Gregazov 28 January 2014 20: 59
        +6
        Niconian reform? And what is it. If you are talking about a split, it happened after the trial of Nikon. Nikon’s actions themselves didn’t have any particular changes. He only tried to put the Church above the state, which Alexei Mikhailovich did not give him to do, and even bring external moments and liturgical texts to a Greek look. However, he did not change any dogma of the Church. And Orthodoxy, or as some of the Israeli partners deign to express themselves, is orthodoxy and consists in the inviolability of keeping the Dogmas. So Nikon has nothing to do with ..
      2. anarh
        anarh 28 January 2014 22: 15
        +2
        Quote: Setrac
        She deprived herself of herself, Nikonean reform, much more!

        So did Stalin invent or deprive Nikon?
        Distances are temporary - enormous.
        Clear. There is no unity in neopagan circles.
    2. anarh
      anarh 28 January 2014 22: 11
      0
      Quote: GregAzov
      It is very interesting who and when deprived Orthodoxy of the Russian Church. If possible in more detail with facts, dates and surnames.

      Yes, it’s not possible.
      Because besides the INTERNAL myths, there is no evidence.
      1. Setrac
        Setrac 28 January 2014 22: 34
        +2
        Quote: anarh
        Because besides the INTERNAL myths, there is no evidence.

        You see the story so that Russia adopted Orthodox Christianity, and right away, the accepted Christianity was Orthodox.
        I see everything (I think) differently, Russia had its Faith, Orthodox, then there was Christianization, since then and to this day, they have been trying to remove Orthodoxy from our religion.
  • Zapasnoy
    Zapasnoy 28 January 2014 20: 13
    +7
    Quote: Setrac
    Unfortunately, the Russian Orthodox Church has long been NOT Orthodox. She's just called that.

    And you probably used to go to the Orthodox Church often, and then suddenly realize that the Russian Orthodox Church has lost God's grace? To draw such conclusions, it is advisable to delve a little into the meaning of teaching, into the history of religions, in contrast to Orthodoxy from other beliefs. But believe me, if you really do all this, then you will have completely different conclusions.
    1. Setrac
      Setrac 28 January 2014 20: 20
      +3
      Quote: Zapasnoy
      and then suddenly realized that the Russian Orthodox Church had lost God's grace

      The Russian Orthodox Church never had God's grace, as did Catholics and Muslims. God's grace may descend on a person, but not on the organization or another form of ordering people.
      You have a traveler in your head religion and Faith are not equivalent concepts.
      1. Gregazov
        Gregazov 28 January 2014 21: 06
        +4
        You do not correctly understand the concept of the Church. The Church was founded by Jesus Christ, so by definition it can no longer be graceless. Through the Sacraments of the Church, members of the Church try to become like its founder. The efforts of people without God's help (which turns out to be a teaching of grace) are in vain. Such a possibility is assumed only by religions created by people, such as paganism, Buddhism, Taoism, etc.
        1. urganov
          urganov 29 January 2014 04: 27
          +1
          contradict yourself:
          Quote: GregAzov
          only religions created by people, such as paganism, Buddhism, Taoism, etc.


          Quote: GregAzov
          Church founded by Jesus Christ
        2. Beaver
          Beaver 29 January 2014 16: 18
          +2
          Quote: GregAzov
          The Church was founded by Jesus Christ, therefore by definition it can no longer be graceless.

          Jesus Christ did not establish a church.

          Quote: GregAzov
          Through the Sacraments of the Church, members of the Church try to become like its founder.

          This is the wrong way.
      2. Zapasnoy
        Zapasnoy 28 January 2014 22: 02
        +4
        Quote: Setrac
        ROC never had God's grace

        You really consider the Church only as an organization, and the Church is a community of believers in Jesus Christ and having him at the head. The Church is us (believers, both the priesthood and the laity). And, as Gregory correctly noted, the Church founded by Christ himself (he is Her cornerstone) cannot be without grace. And why do you, without delving into the essence of the doctrine, deprive it of grace? The ROC MP is a local Orthodox Church (part of the world Orthodox Church) recognized by all other Orthodox Churches (including more ancient ones). Your spitting in the sky falls on you ("God is not mocked"). Do not be bitter, do not fight, it is better to delve into history, into the meaning of the Orthodox faith. The doors of the Church are always open and no one drags you there.
        1. urganov
          urganov 29 January 2014 04: 30
          -1
          Quote: Zapasnoy
          Church founded by Christ himself (he is Her cornerstone)

          But what about: "do not make yourself an idol"?
          Or: no one can be trusted, but I can (c) (from 17 instants of spring).
          1. Zapasnoy
            Zapasnoy 29 January 2014 09: 48
            +2
            Quote: urganov
            But what about: "do not make yourself an idol"?

            Perhaps you have never studied the essence of Christianity. Do not you know that Jesus, in accordance with the principles of the Orthodox doctrine, is the Savior of our fallen world promised by the Old Testament prophets. He for our sake, for the sake of our salvation, was born a man from the Virgin Mary and the Holy Spirit (became human). To call the like like, to indicate the path (truth), the right vector of our life. Having become a man, He preserved his divine essence. We cannot see the Creator (how can we see with our limited material vision the one who created the whole universe?), But we can see the Son of God and God embodied for us in man (because they are inseparable). If Jesus is God, then why did you bring part of the second commandment (Do not make yourself an idol and any likeness, an elk in the heavens and an elk on the earth below, and an elika in the waters below the earth: do not bow to them or serve them), because we are talking about idols (idols), which are created things, and not God. And people of that time were inclined to worship visible objects. In addition, from the moment of transmitting this commandment to Moses until the promised Savior comes into the world, about 15 centuries will pass.
            1. alexandr00070
              alexandr00070 29 January 2014 14: 43
              +1
              Quote: Zapasnoy
              In addition, from the moment of transmitting this commandment to Moses until the promised Savior comes into the world, about 15 centuries will pass.

              Three centuries after the assassination of Jesus, Jewish high priests denied Christ belonged to the Jewish people, calling him the Galilean. And only when the Roman emperor Constantine decided to use Christianity to control the masses, and Christianity was dispersed throughout the world, the Jews came to their senses and decided to make money on Jesus Christ, changing everything beyond recognition. It became profitable for them to rank Christ among the Jews. Immediately appeared "God's slaves" - the slaves of the Jews who betrayed and killed Christ. Notice the slaves of Christ, but the slaves of the Jewish God (Yahweh). The thought is constantly imposing on us - live and suffer, instead - live and enjoy. Intentionally zombie for failure.

              Of all the gospels, the period of Jesus' life from 13 to 30 years is cut out - the main period in the formation of personality. Where and what did Jesus learn? Who made him consecrated - Christ?
              Jewish puppeteers by repeatedly rewriting the gospels destroyed the entire original meaning of the words and deeds of Jesus, changed everything for themselves. But they still cannot explain why Christ rebelled against their “God of the chosen” Jewish faith, why did he claim that the temple of the New Faith would arise? The answer is simple - Jewish “God's chosenness” is to execute any dissent. In world history there are a lot of examples of how the Jews did it. Notice who betrayed Jesus - Judas. The Jewish religion is called Judaism. Judaism and the betrayal of Judah are one and the same. It was the destruction of the initiates that the Jews first introduced into Christianity, organizing with their own hands a witch hunt, crusades, wars, the ruthless extermination of any manifestation of dissent or knowledge
              See how the Jews subsequently all cunningly arranged: what is the gospel - a retelling of the life of Jesus by people who did not personally know Christ, but who heard, supposedly, a story from someone. The sea is a place for fantasies and falsifications.
        2. alexandr00070
          alexandr00070 29 January 2014 14: 35
          0
          Quote: Zapasnoy
          ... Your spitting in the sky falls on you ("God is not mocked").


          Belinsky about the church (letter to N.V. Gogol)
          ... Take a look at your feet: you are standing above the abyss ... That you rely on such a doctrine in the Orthodox Church - I still understand this: it has always been a pillar of the whip and a supporter of despotism; but why did you interfere with Christ here? What did you find common between him and some other, and especially the Orthodox, church? He was the first to proclaim to people the doctrine of freedom, equality and fraternity, and to martyrdom capture and affirm the truth of his doctrine. And it was only until then that it was the salvation of people, until it was organized into a church and accepted as the basis of the principle of orthodoxy. The church, on the other hand, was a hierarchy, a champion of inequality, a flatterer of power, an enemy and a persecutor of brotherhood between people — which continues to be so far. But the meaning of the teachings of Christ was discovered by the philosophical movement of the last century. And this is why some Voltaire who extinguished the bonfires of fanaticism and ignorance in Europe, of course, is more the son of Christ, the flesh of his flesh and bone of his bones, than all your priests, bishops, metropolitans and patriarchs, eastern and western. Do you really not know this? But all this is now nothing new for every gymnasium student ...

          And therefore, are you the author of The Examiner and Dead Souls, have you sincerely, with all your heart, sang a hymn to the vile Russian clergy, putting it immeasurably higher than the Catholic clergy? Suppose you do not know that the second was once something, while the first was never anything but a servant and slave of secular power; but do you really not really know that our clergy are in general contempt among the Russian society and the Russian people?
          Take a closer look, and you will see that this is by nature a deeply atheistic people. There is still a lot of superstition, but there is no trace of religiosity. Superstition passes with the successes of civilization; but religiosity often coexists with them;
          The Russian people are not so: mystical exaltation is not at all in their nature; he has too much for this common sense, clarity and positivity in his mind: and this, perhaps, is the enormity of his historical destinies in the future. Religiosity did not even take root in him to the clergy; for several separate, exceptional personalities, distinguished by their quiet, cold ascetic contemplation, prove nothing. Most of our clergy have always been distinguished only by thick bellies, theological pedantry and wild ignorance. His sin is to blame for religious intolerance and fanaticism; rather, it can be praised for exemplary indifference in the work of faith. Religiosity manifested itself in us only in schismatic sects, which were so opposed in spirit to their mass of people and so insignificant before them in numbers.
          You did not notice that Russia sees its salvation not in mysticism, not in asceticism, not in pietism, but in the successes of civilization, enlightenment, humanity. She doesn’t need sermons (she heard enough of them!), Not prayers (she said them enough!), But an awakening among the people of a sense of human dignity, so many centuries lost in mud and dung, rights and laws that are consistent not with the teachings of the church, but with common sense and justice, and strict, if possible, their implementation.
          * From a letter of V.G. Belinsky N.V. Gogol, July 15, 1847
      3. anarh
        anarh 28 January 2014 22: 40
        +3
        Quote: Setrac
        ROC never had God's grace

        Why so categorically - NEVER?
        The Russian Orthodox Church (abbreviation of the Russian Orthodox Church launched by liberal Russophobes) is not an organization.
        The church is the only of the Lord on earth, hence grace.
        And the Russian Orthodox Church of Equality of Naples is the direct legal successor of the first Christian church.

        And about ruligii you atheists (to say - atheists) ask around.
        They will tell you everything about religion as is.
        The main thing is that they will be told from the right angle.
        1. Setrac
          Setrac 28 January 2014 22: 51
          -3
          Quote: anarh
          Why so categorically - NEVER?

          Because the church does not have a soul, people have a soul.
          1. anarh
            anarh 29 January 2014 07: 19
            +2
            Quote: Setrac
            Because the church does not have a soul, people have a soul.

            THE CHURCH IS THE BODY OF THE LORD.
            And IT IS SPIRITUALIZED (like each of us) by the HOLY SPIRIT.
            1. alicante11
              alicante11 29 January 2014 07: 56
              -3
              Show me this "spirit".
              1. Zapasnoy
                Zapasnoy 29 January 2014 09: 58
                +2
                Quote: alicante11
                Show me this "spirit"

                Do not worry, you will still see spirits when the soul leaves the body. Or your spiritual vision will be revealed at the will of the above. There is another option, in the case of mental illness or bodily illness, the psyche (body) will become so thin that you can see the world of spirits, but I do not wish this option to anyone. smile
                1. alicante11
                  alicante11 30 January 2014 04: 46
                  +1
                  Yeah Those. you cannot physically present. Well then, do not hang noodles. At the expense of mental illness - it's cool. I will adopt your argument.
            2. alexandr00070
              alexandr00070 29 January 2014 14: 55
              +1
              Quote: anarh
              CHURCH - BODY OF THE LORD

              Quotes about the church
              The whole history of the church is a mixture of delusion and violence.
              Johann Goethe
              The church is a kind of state, but especially false ...
              Friedrich Nietzsche
              Church. This whole word is the name of deception, through which some people want to rule over others.
              Leo Tolstoy
              The main task of all the churches was one and the same: to inspire the poor serfs that for them there is no happiness on earth, it is destined for them in heaven, and that hard labor for someone else's uncle is charitable work.
              Maksim Gorky
              If the emancipation of the peasants depended solely on the church, serfdom would probably exist until now.
              Dmitry Sergeevich Merezhkovsky
              The church blesses that which it cannot prevent.
              Kurt Tukholsky
              The church is constantly holding on to the fact that it is the enemy of progress and puts slingshots in its path. But as soon as progress wins, she hurries to reckon it to her merits. All that the church curses lives; all that she opposes blossoms.
              Mark Twain
              The church is the only business that in bad times is experiencing the peak of the market.
              Charles angel
              God has no religion.
              Mahatma Gandhi
              1. Zapasnoy
                Zapasnoy 29 January 2014 15: 28
                0
                Quote: alexandr00070
                Quotes about the church

                The church is us believers united in one body. The head of the Church is Jesus Christ. Why are you fighting against us? What specifically dislikes you in the teaching of the Church? Either you just drive the wave because of a rebellious nature and ignorance of the essence of the Orthodox faith, or you basically go against it, because you cannot observe, accept what the Orthodox faith teaches? You know, priests are people too, and their wings have not yet grown, so there are worthy ones, and, unfortunately, unworthy ones. Only the essence of dogma does not change from this. God himself is unchanged. Look at the good examples; there are more likely to be more bad ones. What do you dislike about Sergius of Radonezh, Alexander Nevsky, Suvorov, Serafim Sarovsky and many, many other very Orthodox people.
                If you simply cannot yet believe in the existence of God, then show simple respect for an alternative opinion.
                1. alexandr00070
                  alexandr00070 29 January 2014 15: 54
                  +1
                  Quote: Zapasnoy
                  Head of the Church - Jesus Christ

                  Do you think he knew that you would do this to him
                  Quote: Zapasnoy
                  What do you dislike about Sergius of Radonezh, Alexander Nevsky, Suvorov, Serafim Sarovsky

                  Because of your illiteracy, you mixed so many different people into one pile, in fact, even without knowing their history separately, read about one thing:
                  Until the XNUMXth century, Great Russia remained the only solar power on the planet, but then a lunar cult began to be imposed here - Christianity born of Judaism. Destroyed the priests and ancient chronicles, forced people to become lunar forces. In order not to deprive the Russian people of spirituality, not to transform, under the influence of Western Christian ideology, materialized, living one day, indifferent inhabitants, some Vedic priests began to act under Christian priests. Moreover, duped and hunted by endless persecution of the sorcerers and sorcerers, the people began to seek truth from the new "priests" from the foreign church. One of these "Christian ascetics" was Sergius of Radonezh.
                  Being a highly consecrated magician, this pseudo-Christian managed in a short time to turn Greek-style Christianity, which came to Russian soil, with its servility, obedience to power and authority, into a completely different religion. Orthodoxy of Sergius of Radonezh in its essence ceased to be Western, it turned into a life-affirming solar religion of the triumph of the laws of the Law and the highest cosmic justice. Sergius of Radonezh knew well the true doctrine of Christ, that it was fundamentally Vedic and therefore did not invent anything from himself.

                  Magus Sergius never argued with anyone. In his teaching, he always and always relied on Christ. He tried not to touch the Apostles; for him they were far from perfect people. Jesus of Sergius of Radonezh did not have anything dogmatic, he in his teaching looked alive with high creative potential and the creative power in which one could see the power of the Most High: Sergius of Radonezh seemed to expand the concept of Christ, showed his teaching multifaceted. And he did it unobtrusively, gently without too much noise and at the same time very convincingly.
                  According to his teachings, as in ancient times, the institution of self-discipline was preserved, the moral stages of human spiritual growth that the Westerners so diligently destroyed. As before, many vices and weaknesses were condemned by a special popular assembly. It was forbidden to drink alcohol, was considered as a sin any violence, and actions degrading human dignity. But high moral qualities were encouraged and strongly supported in man. First of all, love for the Native land and their people, love for the national Russian culture, selfless love for relatives and friends. Self-sacrifice was highly appreciated in the teachings of Sergius of Radonezh, in order to achieve a high goal. Honesty, truthfulness, constancy, integrity and courage were encouraged in every way.

                  It so happened that around the church of St. Sergius of Radonezh, spiritually scattered Russia began to unite. Now both the Vedic Russians and Christians found a common language. By and large, they had nothing to argue about, much less kill each other. Now both of them looked at the West as a breeding ground for evil and discord, at the kingdom of demons, who, in order to conquer the world, perverted the true teaching of Christ and opposed it to the Vedic.

                  The Church of St. Sergius of Radonezh denied the appeal "servant of God." Under St. Sergius, the Rus called themselves, as before in the Vedic time, the grandchildren of God. The power under Sergius of Radonezh was not from God, but from people and for just power it was necessary to fight, and if you were hit unfairly, then such a blow can be answered with a blow.
                  1. Zapasnoy
                    Zapasnoy 29 January 2014 16: 14
                    0
                    Quote: alexandr00070
                    Do you think he knew that you would do this to him

                    The words of the Savior - "and I tell you: you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it" Matt. 16:18
                    No plan to offend you - did you read the New Testament?
                    Suvorov, Sergius of Radonezh, Seraphim of Sarov, Dmitry Donskoy, Alexander Nevsky are united by their faith.
                    The story of Sergius of Radonezh you have, frankly, is very unusual, superaternative. I have never read the life of this saint, but I could not even imagine such a fantasy.
                    I understood you. But I beg you, look at other views on world-building. Do not go deep into paganism, it is very dangerous. Just compare the concepts, their moral standards. Do not feed on the opinions of others, speculation, gossip, study the primary sources, only then you can make the right, reasonable choice.
                  2. alexandr00070
                    alexandr00070 29 January 2014 17: 33
                    +1
                    Quote: Zapasnoy
                    The words of the Savior - "and I tell you: you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it" Matt. 16:18

                    Your "I have read" is based on the literature that priests have been composing for you for many centuries to influence the minds, you take a step aside read historians, the words of the savior are written down, and then rewritten several times, from Luke, from John, from Matthew and I I have just read it and I will tell you with confidence all narrate in different ways. The book is a great power especially in skillful hands.
                    No one can say how it really was.

                    The New Testament is composed of eight writers: Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, Paul, James, and Judah.
                    Can you imagine how many eight people could have been there?
          2. Beaver
            Beaver 29 January 2014 16: 20
            0
            Quote: anarh
            THE CHURCH IS THE BODY OF THE LORD.

            Let's separate the flies from the cutlets, the church itself, Faith alone.
            1. Zapasnoy
              Zapasnoy 29 January 2014 16: 30
              -1
              Quote: Castor
              Let's separate the flies from the cutlets, the church itself, Faith alone.

              First you need to understand that the Church in the narrow sense (the one that you have in mind) is a church organization. The church in the broad sense that the Lord founded is the totality of all those who believe in Him. So, in this right sense, the Church is inseparable from faith, its meaning.
              1. Beaver
                Beaver 29 January 2014 16: 58
                0
                Quote: Zapasnoy
                The church in the broad sense that the Lord founded is the totality of all those who believe in Him. So, in this right sense, the Church is inseparable from faith, its meaning.

                This is an abstract church, it is not in nature.

                Quote: Zapasnoy
                First you need to understand that the Church in the narrow sense (the one that you have in mind) is a church organization.

                And these are those churches (namely in the plural) that exist in reality and are engaged in their commercial affairs.
                1. Zapasnoy
                  Zapasnoy 29 January 2014 21: 42
                  0
                  Quote: Castor
                  This is an abstract church, it is not in nature

                  This is for you It is abstract (you are outside of It), but for those who are in this Church it is quite real. If you are not interested in these issues, are not looking for God, then why such a peremptory tone.
              2. alexandr00070
                alexandr00070 29 January 2014 17: 36
                0
                Quote: Zapasnoy
                The church in the broad sense that the Lord founded

                You will be surprised, but he did not create anything.
                Three centuries after the assassination of Jesus, Jewish high priests denied Christ belonged to the Jewish people, calling him the Galilean. And only when the Roman emperor Constantine decided to use Christianity to control the masses, and Christianity was dispersed throughout the world, the Jews came to their senses and decided to make money on Jesus Christ, changing everything beyond recognition. It became profitable for them to rank Christ among the Jews. Immediately appeared "God's slaves" - the slaves of the Jews who betrayed and killed Christ. Notice the slaves of Christ, but the slaves of the Jewish God (Yahweh). The thought is constantly imposing on us - live and suffer, instead - live and enjoy. Intentionally zombie for failure.
                Jewish puppeteers by repeatedly rewriting the gospels destroyed the entire original meaning of the words and deeds of Jesus, changed everything for themselves. But they still cannot explain why Christ rebelled against their “God of the chosen” Jewish faith, why did he claim that the temple of the New Faith would arise? The answer is simple - Jewish “God's chosenness” is to execute any dissent. In world history there are a lot of examples of how the Jews did it. Notice who betrayed Jesus - Judas. The Jewish religion is called Judaism. Judaism and the betrayal of Judah are one and the same. It was the destruction of the initiates that the Jews first introduced into Christianity, organizing with their own hands a witch hunt, crusades, wars, the ruthless extermination of any manifestation of dissent or knowledge
                1. Zapasnoy
                  Zapasnoy 29 January 2014 21: 30
                  +2
                  Quote: alexandr00070
                  You will be surprised, but he did not create anything.

                  Where did you read such a heresy? With this statement, you should have been at least present in person 2000 years ago in the Middle East. Your texts, I don’t know where you are copying them from, are a mixture of everything and everything. And after all, someone sits and comes up with such nonsense. Call Sergius of Radonezh pseudo-Christian and priest, without relying on any historical data. You yourself will be critical of the source where you draw all these pearls.
                2. alexandr00070
                  alexandr00070 29 January 2014 23: 33
                  0
                  Quote: Zapasnoy
                  With this statement, you should have been at least present in person 2000 years ago in the Middle East.

                  And you rank yourself among those who were 2000 years ago in the Middle East. Whence such confidence in my wrongness, 8 people wrote the Bible at different times in different places, from where confidence in the correctness
            2. abrakadabre
              abrakadabre 30 January 2014 09: 19
              +1
              You will not convince the opponent. For the purpose of the troll is not to find the truth in the discussion, but to rouse you.
    2. alexandr00070
      alexandr00070 29 January 2014 14: 49
      0
      Quote: anarh
      And the Russian Orthodox Church of Equality of Naples is the direct legal successor of the first Christian church.

      You are mistaken

      Renovationism (the official name is the Orthodox Russian Church; later, the Orthodox Church in the USSR, also the Renovationist split, the Living Church, the Church of the Church) is a schismatic movement in Russian Christianity that arose officially after the February Revolution of 1917. The goal of “renewing the Church” was declared: the democratization of governance and the modernization of worship. He opposed the leadership of the Church by Patriarch Tikhon, declaring full support for the new regime and its reforms.
      From 1922 to 1926, the movement was the only Orthodox church organization officially recognized by the state authorities of the RSFSR (the Gregorian Provisional High Church Council became the second such organization in 1926), in certain periods it was recognized by some other local Churches. During the period of greatest influence - in the mid-1920s - more than half of the Russian episcopate and parishes were subordinate to the renovationist structures.
      Renovationism in the initial period of its existence was not a strictly structured movement; between themselves, renovationist structures were often in direct confrontation [1]. From 1923 to 1935, the Holy Synod of the Orthodox Russian Church existed, headed by the Chairman.

      Grandson of the renovationist Metropolitan of Ivanovo and Kinesham Alexander Boyarsky, Mikhail Sergeyevich Boyarsky
  • alexandr00070
    alexandr00070 29 January 2014 14: 23
    0
    Quote: Setrac
    You have a traveler in your head religion and Faith are not equivalent concepts.

    try to fix it

    Religion (re - repeat, league - unification) - repeated scripture or public education, which creates an administrator. As he understands faith (depending on culture, language, traditions, education), he creates such a religion. Therefore, there are many religions - these are certain projections of faith, blindly following any traditions.

    Each religion is divided into two poles: one pole is occupied by administrators who go to this religion in order to amuse their vanity and materially enrich themselves; the second pole is occupied by fanatics who blindly follow the dogmas imposed by administrators. But thanks to these poles, a layer of sane people inevitably appears between them who come to faith through this projection. When such sensible people meet among themselves, they are brothers, they have nothing to argue about - the Most High and the Laws are one.

    When the administrators of different religions meet, everyone insists that it is his religion that is the only true one, and he never admits that another religion is the same projection of the same Truth. When fanatics of various religions meet, a religious war begins.
    1. abrakadabre
      abrakadabre 29 January 2014 14: 55
      +2
      Religion (re - repeat, league - unification) - repeated scripture or public education created by the administrator
      Your grass is picky. Where are you importing from? Afghanistan, Chuy?

      All well-known hypotheses of the origin of the word "religion" are reduced to one source: lat. religio - "conscientiousness, piety, piety, subject of worship"
      1. Setrac
        Setrac 29 January 2014 15: 00
        0
        Quote: abrakadabre
        Your grass is picky.

        One gets the feeling that "grass" is the only thing in which you understand.
        If a person has not learned to joke, it is better for him to be silent.
      2. alexandr00070
        alexandr00070 29 January 2014 15: 10
        0
        Quote: abrakadabre
        Your grass is picky. Where are you importing from? Afghanistan, Chuy?

        It’s not funny at all, the translation is too much on the surface, and this is the scheme applicable to any religion, party, etc., the same scheme for all ages
        1. abrakadabre
          abrakadabre 29 January 2014 15: 19
          0
          translation is too surface
          However, condemning such an approach, by the way generally accepted, you are also trying to translate:
          Religion (re - repeat, league - unification) - repeated scripture or public education created by the administrator

          smile
      3. Beaver
        Beaver 29 January 2014 16: 22
        0
        Quote: abrakadabre
        Your grass is picky. Where are you importing from? Afghanistan, Chuy?

        Is this a kind of veiled insult to the interlocutor?
        I don’t see a few warning messages from moderators, are they sleeping?
        1. alexandr00070
          alexandr00070 29 January 2014 17: 38
          0
          Quote: Castor
          I don’t see a few warning messages from moderators, are they sleeping?

          by rank I see that you have not yet figured out to whom and for what they put one
  • Nick
    Nick 28 January 2014 21: 07
    +3
    Quote: Zapasnoy
    To draw such conclusions, it is advisable to delve a little into the meaning of teaching, into the history of religions, in contrast to Orthodoxy from other beliefs. But believe me, if you really do all this, then you will have completely different conclusions.

    You are absolutely right Dmitry!
    1. urganov
      urganov 29 January 2014 04: 32
      0
      that is, it is necessary to accept the point of view of the speaker in order to judge the meaning of his statement?
  • alexandr00070
    alexandr00070 29 January 2014 14: 19
    0
    Quote: Zapasnoy
    To draw such conclusions, it is advisable to delve a little into the meaning of teaching, into the history of religions, in contrast to Orthodoxy from other beliefs. But believe me, if you really do all this, then you will have completely different conclusions.

    all who deepen begin to see the real side of religion and move away from the church.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • anarh
    anarh 28 January 2014 21: 53
    +3
    Quote: Setrac
    Unfortunately, the Russian Orthodox Church has long been NOT Orthodox. She's just called that.

    Do you go to God's church?
    Or so - idle opinions based on liberal publications?
    1. Setrac
      Setrac 28 January 2014 21: 55
      0
      Quote: anarh
      Do you go to God's church?

      I am neither for nor against, I abstained.
  • alexandr00070
    alexandr00070 29 January 2014 12: 13
    0
    Quote: Setrac
    Apparently, the number of Orthodox Christians is growing

    here YOU are wrong, Orthodox Christians are called only here, all over the world the Russian Church is called the Russian Orthodox Church. And in the main you are right "it is just called that", after the revolution there were several trends, and so the one that offered Lenin the best conditions for coexistence won ( such as appeals to believers to respect Soviet power) so the history of a church with this name goes back only since 1918.
  • Roman 1977
    Roman 1977 28 January 2014 16: 09
    +10
    Well, what would happen if Russia did not accept Orthodoxy, and pagan supporters would have won, such as Prince Svyatoslav, who, after returning from defeat from the Byzantines from Dorostol, sent an order to Kiev to burn the churches and promised to “banish” upon return all Russian Christians. Apparently, Kiev from a rich and cultural city would turn into a castle of a robber knight like Bran Bran (now Brandenburg) or a base of pirates with the cult of Svyatovit, as was the case on the island of Ruge (now Rügen). But then the fate of the Western Slavs would have befallen the Rus: the Lutichs, Bodrichs and Pomeranians, who waged constant wars with neighbors and among themselves. For these brave Slavs, not only Germans and Danes, but all the neighbors were enemies, and you cannot live without friends. Therefore, they did not manage to form their own power, even having recaptured the Crusade in the 1147 year, the Western Slavs could not unite: the huts with the Cross Penins refused to submit to the bodricians. The Germans captured the Slavic lands: Berlin became Berlin, Lubech-Lubeck, Lipshin-Leipzig, etc. .. On the lands of the Bodriches, the Duchy of Mecklenburg arose, built into the structure of the Holy Roman Empire. Like the Germanization of the Pomeranian house in the east, the Slavic dynasty of the Niklotings / Niklotychs degenerated into typical German feudal lords. Slavic Slavic language is gradually replaced by German, especially in cities where paperwork required written German. Polabsky lingers in cities in certain social and professional marginal groups, for example among fishermen. On the island of Rugen, the Polabian disappears by the 15th century, and in the Venland region, the Draveno-Polab dialect existed until the 18th century.
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 28 January 2014 16: 16
      +11
      Quote: Novel 1977
      For these brave Slavs, not only Germans and Danes, but all the neighbors were enemies,

      In what, after the adoption of Christianity, the princes did not fight each other? And Vladimir Svyatoslavovich laid his brothers vilely. It is not necessary to so unambiguously judge the options for the development of history.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. atalef
        atalef 28 January 2014 16: 25
        .
        Quote: Ingvar 72
        In what, after the adoption of Christianity, the princes did not fight each other?

        Yes, and Alexander Nevsky (like Dmitry Donskoy) figures in this regard (like many many others) are far from unambiguous. Russian then blood in the strife was poured a lot.
        1. major071
          major071 28 January 2014 16: 46
          +25
          The princes fought among themselves constantly, sometimes even incited by the church, but unlike Catholicism and its derivatives, the hierarchs of the Russian church did not gather crusades against non-Christians, and in their entire mass did not advocate the conquest of foreign lands. The Russian church has always differed from the western one in that we called the priest a priest, and not a holy father, as is customary in the west.
          1. Setrac
            Setrac 28 January 2014 16: 57
            .
            Quote: major071
            unlike Catholicism and its derivatives, the hierarchs of the Russian church did not gather crusades against non-Christians, and in their entire mass did not advocate the conquest of foreign lands.

            The separate separation of Moscow from the Horde (also a Russian state) occurred under the pressure of the Christian church. Dmitry Donskoy considered the Horde power legitimate and did not want to fight.
            1. Salamander
              Salamander 28 January 2014 17: 38
              +8
              I will answer this version of the story with a picture:
              1. Yuri Sev Caucasus
                Yuri Sev Caucasus 28 January 2014 20: 31
                +1
                U-turn on the parking brake =) But why would he ask a question ???
                1. anarh
                  anarh 28 January 2014 22: 55
                  +1
                  Quote: Yuri Sev Caucasus
                  U-turn on the parking brake =) But why would he ask a question ???

                  Bandera blocked the passage "Berkuta". wink
            2. 11111mail.ru
              11111mail.ru 28 January 2014 19: 00
              +3
              Quote: Setrac
              The separate separation of Moscow from the Horde (also a Russian state) occurred under the pressure of the Christian church

              L.N. Gumilyov had a slightly different opinion on this matter. I quote: "Ancient Russia and the Great Steppe". Chapter XXV177.
              By 1376, the Golden Horde split into the Blue Horde (rebel Mamai) and the White Horde (Tokhtamysh). Mamaia's ally was the Lithuanian prince Algerd. (177). (Processing is mine). In 1375, the Patriarch of Constantinople restored the Kiev Metropolitanate, placing Bulgarian Cyprian at the head, splitting the Russian church into Lithuanian and Russian. Further direct quote:
              With the constant clashes between Lithuania and Moscow, control of both parts of the church was not feasible. Vladyka Alexey took the situation calmly, but Grand Duke Dmitry Ivanovich took the opposite position.
              After the death of Metropolitan Alexei, Dmitry Ivanovich tried to put his confessor Mitya, who unexpectedly died on the Black Sea coast, on the Moscow metropolis. A certain Pimen returned with the embassy to Moscow, immediately arrested and exiled by Dmitry Ivanovich. And now it started: the Suzdal bishop Dionysius managed to organize the extermination of the Mamai embassy in N. Novgorod, to which Mamai responded with the raid of Arapshah. The clash between Mamai and Dmitry Ivanovich became inevitable, and Sergius of Radonezh was FORCED to bless the Orthodox in the war against the rebel Mamai. So it was not the Orthodox Church that did not put pressure on the prince and was found guilty, which was confirmed by the late canonization of Alexei and Sergius in 1447. (178)
              1. anarh
                anarh 28 January 2014 22: 59
                +2
                Quote: 11111mail.ru
                L.N. Gumilyov had a slightly different opinion on this matter.

                Lev Nikolaevich is an interesting author, but not indisputable.
            3. tomket
              tomket 28 January 2014 19: 17
              0
              and put the question to a referendum on whether to be an ORDE)))))))))
            4. anarh
              anarh 28 January 2014 22: 52
              +4
              Quote: Setrac
              Dmitry Donskoy considered the Horde power legitimate and did not want to fight.

              From the same sources as “the term Orthodoxy was introduced by JV Stalin?
              Very reliable sources.
              My brother had a 1980 edition of the Communist Manifesto.
              On the title page was an autograph:
              "Lesha, with gratitude from the authors."
              So imagine - no one believed, everyone just laughed.
            5. washi
              washi 29 January 2014 08: 53
              0
              Quote: Setrac
              Quote: major071
              unlike Catholicism and its derivatives, the hierarchs of the Russian church did not gather crusades against non-Christians, and in their entire mass did not advocate the conquest of foreign lands.

              The separate separation of Moscow from the Horde (also a Russian state) occurred under the pressure of the Christian church. Dmitry Donskoy considered the Horde power legitimate and did not want to fight.

              This is not Dmitry, but the church believed because all power from God.
          2. baltika-18
            baltika-18 28 January 2014 16: 58
            0
            Quote: major071
            our priest was called a priest,

            Not only. In common people, in everyday life, they are called "priests". And why no one knows. Different versions exist, if you bring the most common article, you can sew it on. what
            1. Salamander
              Salamander 28 January 2014 17: 35
              +4
              To themselves, they call people in priests, but they turn to them like a priest.
            2. kare
              kare 28 January 2014 18: 05
              -6
              "who sold the memory of fathers"
              1. Salamander
                Salamander 28 January 2014 18: 42
                +7
                At the time this "term" appeared, there were no abbreviations yet.
            3. major071
              major071 28 January 2014 19: 21
              +9
              There is nothing different in these words, it is in Russian-Father, and in Greek-POP (father)
              1. baltika-18
                baltika-18 28 January 2014 19: 36
                -5
                Quote: major071
                , and in Greek-POP (father)

                And what then will mean "priest" in Greek.
                Is it really "mother"? laughing
                1. anarh
                  anarh 28 January 2014 23: 01
                  +2
                  Well, it's like someone.
          3. sinandju
            sinandju 28 January 2014 18: 05
            +3
            our pagan ancestors did not collect the crusades either. laughing
            1. Salamander
              Salamander 28 January 2014 18: 23
              +2
              I agree, since there was no such term laughing But the campaigns were always, even the Byzantines were afraid of the Slavs.
              1. azkolt
                azkolt 28 January 2014 22: 04
                -1
                But the Slavs went to the Byzantines just by order of the Khazars. The vassals of which at that time were. The Khazarsky garrison stood in Kiev itself. And only the wise policy of St. Olga and the courage of Svyatoslav saved us from this evil!
            2. anarh
              anarh 28 January 2014 23: 04
              0
              Enough enough: pagans - yes with the Cross.
              Really funny.
              And ridiculous.
            3. nerd.su
              nerd.su 29 January 2014 01: 45
              0
              Quote: sinandju
              our pagan ancestors did not collect crusades either

              Well, they did collect the crusades. And also for candlesticks, for silver salaries, for young parishioners ... Gopota uneducated, lost souls, what to take from them! smile
          4. washi
            washi 29 January 2014 08: 52
            -4
            Quote: major071
            The princes fought among themselves constantly, sometimes even incited by the church, but unlike Catholicism and its derivatives, the hierarchs of the Russian church did not gather crusades against non-Christians, and in their entire mass did not advocate the conquest of foreign lands. The Russian church has always differed from the western one in that we called the priest a priest, and not a holy father, as is customary in the west.

            Of course, they did not advocate the conquest of foreign lands. After all, the Church was ruled from Byzantium (until its complete fall). Therefore, its population was destroyed. As a result of "Christianization" in the 10-11 centuries, a third of Russian cities disappeared. During the 13-14 centuries, with the help of the Tatars, the church almost completely destroyed the ancient faith
          5. CALL.
            CALL. 29 January 2014 12: 00
            0
            Quote: major071
            The Russian Church has always been different from the West in that

            And she didn’t burn people at the stake. And what is shown in the films is such a concept, a creative individual.
        2. Orik
          Orik 28 January 2014 17: 07
          +13
          Well, not the Jews to judge them, you poured a Russian blood on the country with blanks, brackets, apfelbaum and other scum.
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. atalef
            atalef 28 January 2014 17: 13
            0
            Quote: Orik
            Well, not the Jews to judge them, you poured a Russian blood on the country with blanks, brackets, apfelbaum and other scum

            Well, when there is nothing to argue. as a rule (from a lack of gray matter and argumentation) they switch to a national question. Peace to you - your not desire to accept history and facts - in no way cancels events as such. And what was - it was (including strife) - you like it or not.
            1. Setrac
              Setrac 28 January 2014 17: 15
              +10
              Quote: atalef
              go to the national question.

              Unfortunately, YOUR nation gives a VERY BIG reason to switch to the national question. That's when you will behave in a human way, then the attitude towards your nation will be human, but for now there is, that is.
              1. The comment was deleted.
              2. atalef
                atalef 28 January 2014 17: 23
                -8
                Quote: Setrac
                Unfortunately, YOUR nation gives a VERY BIG reason to switch to the national question.

                But in essence there are problems, what to argue?
                Quote: Setrac
                That's when you will behave in a human way, then the attitude towards your nation will be human, but for now there is, that is.

                Who the hell are you?
                Do not judge . and you will not judge.
                the most humane person laughing
              3. The comment was deleted.
            2. Platoon
              Platoon 28 January 2014 17: 31
              0
              atalef (3)
              Never mind. The caravan goes, the dog barks!
            3. Orik
              Orik 28 January 2014 18: 53
              +5
              Quote: atalef
              Well, when there is nothing to argue. as a rule (from a lack of gray matter and argumentation) they switch to a national question. Peace to you - your not desire to accept history and facts - in no way cancels events as such. And what was - it was (including strife) - you like it or not.

              They participated in strife, and a warrior kills people for the sake of protecting the country! If you had a "gray matter", then you would have understood that the holy princes Alexander and Dimitri participated in the strife for the sake of uniting the Russian land, and not for the sake of power and their own selfhood, like, for example, brother Andrey Aleksandrov.
            4. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 29 January 2014 04: 35
              +1
              Quote: atalef
              Well, when there is nothing to argue. usually (

              Sanya, and he is right, Nevsky before King Herod, like a cancer to the moon. If you look at the history of the Jewish rulers, intrigues and whom they sponsored. It will be possible to create a new sea, not only from water, but from blood.
              When you come to Israel here, you take it with hostility, but you yourself do the same. Do not your faith, do not go!
          3. washi
            washi 29 January 2014 08: 57
            -4
            Quote: Orik
            Well, not the Jews to judge them, you poured a Russian blood on the country with blanks, brackets, apfelbaum and other scum.

            Nevertheless, Christ is a Jew. And so many who wish will bow to him.
            I read somewhere that Christianity is a religion of slaves.
        3. tomket
          tomket 28 January 2014 19: 04
          +1
          as far as I remember they are from the branch of Yuri Dolgoruky, and he was half Saxon.
        4. anarh
          anarh 28 January 2014 22: 44
          +1
          Quote: atalef
          Russian then blood in the strife was poured a lot.

          Oh, I can’t believe in the sincere Israeli tears about the Russian blood.
          Whisper quietly what they thought up in Tel Aviv?
          After all, do not whisper.
          We understand - a state secret.
      3. Orik
        Orik 28 January 2014 16: 44
        +9
        Quote: Ingvar 72
        In what, after the adoption of Christianity, the princes did not fight each other? And Vladimir Svyatoslavovich laid his brothers vilely. It is not necessary to so unambiguously judge the options for the development of history.

        Do you think a person changes immediately? No, it took a yoke to crush the greatest sin of the princes, and the people, pride. No wonder the descendant of St. St. Vladimir Alexander Nevsky showed along with military talents a feat of faith and humility, while Prince Galitsky Daniil did not reconcile and his spiritual descendants again tormented Kiev and Russia.
        1. ele1285
          ele1285 28 January 2014 17: 20
          +3
          Quote: Orik
          Do you think a person changes immediately?

          Yes, it is changing. Have you heard about Optina deserts? It has changed, and many of them. In matters of faith, it seems to me that you can’t be stubborn, like some here on the site. This is a private matter for everyone.
          1. Orik
            Orik 28 January 2014 19: 00
            +2
            No, it does not change, with rare exceptions, which are connected with the special providence of God specifically for this soul. Changing a person’s disposition is a long and painful process. It seems that you only heard, but you yourself have not changed, otherwise you didn’t say that. It turns out that I heard a ring, but I don’t know where he is.
            1. ele1285
              ele1285 28 January 2014 19: 56
              0
              Quote: Orik
              No, it does not change, with rare exceptions

              A complete contradiction. You carefully re-read yourself.
              A rare exception or a frequent one will still lead to a change.
              1. Orik
                Orik 28 January 2014 21: 36
                -1
                Quote: ele1285
                A complete contradiction. You carefully re-read yourself.
                A rare exception or a frequent one will still lead to a change.

                If you tried to live a spiritual life, then there would be no understanding. But it seems that the avatar is empty.
                1. ele1285
                  ele1285 29 January 2014 07: 33
                  0
                  Quote: Orik

                  If you tried to live a spiritual life, then there would be no understanding. But it seems that the avatar is empty.

                  Nothing but slogans. You know about my life as much as I about your
                  1. Orik
                    Orik 29 January 2014 10: 23
                    0
                    This is not a capsule, but an experience. You don’t understand, because you don’t have it, but you have self-conceit. For some reason they dragged optina, ask any monk how much it takes to transform the human soul, when good and right things become separate actions, and even much later life.
                    Trying to talk about what you completely do not understand and you will not deal with such conceit. Therefore, for you these are empty slogans. According to your words, everything is visible.
      4. Gregazov
        Gregazov 28 January 2014 19: 50
        +1
        That is, brother Oleg was meanly killed by brother Vladimir? Something you, Ingvar fantasize.
        1. Setrac
          Setrac 28 January 2014 20: 02
          +3
          Quote: GregAzov
          That is, brother Oleg was meanly killed by brother Vladimir? Something you, Ingvar fantasize.

          Do you insist that the killing was not mean?
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 28 January 2014 20: 27
            0
            Quote: Setrac
            Do you insist that the killing was not mean?

            He just doesn’t know the story. laughing
            1. ele1285
              ele1285 28 January 2014 21: 11
              0
              Quote: Ingvar 72

              He just doesn’t know the story. laughing

              Applause, you can’t say better.
    2. kare
      kare 28 January 2014 17: 49
      +2
      Excuse me, dear, but you are telling a story created by Miller and Schlozer, which was very beneficial to the house of the Zakharyavykh-Romanovs, which was written, according to their incitement
      1. tomket
        tomket 28 January 2014 19: 21
        0
        and what is the benefit ??? by the way you point at Miller.
        1. Setrac
          Setrac 28 January 2014 19: 23
          +2
          Quote: tomket
          and what is the benefit ??? by the way you point at Miller.

          The benefit is obvious. Give your board (Romanovs) a legitimate look. After all, power is from God, and the rich Romanovs did not have rights to it.
          1. tomket
            tomket 28 January 2014 19: 37
            +1
            Actually, how strange it is, it means there were no questions to Mikhail Fedorovich about his legitimacy, to Alexei Tishayshiy too, Peter the Great managed to correct and die, and Elizabeth sat on the throne, and they remembered that the tsar wasn’t real !!!! ! It doesn’t seem that it’s too late, as it happened, they justified themselves to justify their estate. You still say that Pugachev is Tsarevich Dmitry, he simply went over the Cahors monk and put the wrong years in the annals, but the eclipse of Sirius opened his eyes to new scientists !!!!
            1. Setrac
              Setrac 28 January 2014 19: 55
              +4
              Quote: tomket
              You still say that Pugachev is Tsarevich Dmitry

              Let's just say - I do not exclude this option.
              Let me draw your attention to the fact that Suvorov led ten times stronger armies to the east than to the west. And historians scratch us about the "uprising", what such an uprising, they fought against the regular army of another state.
              1. Yuri Sev Caucasus
                Yuri Sev Caucasus 28 January 2014 20: 38
                +5
                It seems that the way it was after all, Emelyana Pugacheva, oddly enough, was judged in the throne room of the Kremlin in Moscow, and not as a serf on the square, and this only says that he’s a question of tsar’s blood only what kind of gap in history we were left by dear Miller and Schlezer ???
        2. 11111mail.ru
          11111mail.ru 29 January 2014 18: 05
          0
          Quote: tomket
          by the way you point at Miller

          It depends on which, if Alexei Ilyich Miller (b. 1959) is a Russian historian, then you are right, but if you mean Gerhard Friedrich Müller (p. 1705), then your opponent is right. You already decide among themselves.
          Regarding the second pair of links attached:
          http://army-news.ru/2012/11/za-chto-mixail-lomonosov-byl-prigovoren-k-smertnoj-k
          azni /
          Miller and his associates had full power not only at the university in St. Petersburg, but also in the gymnasium, which prepared future students. The gymnasium was led by Miller, Bayer and Fisher. In the gymnasium “THE TEACHERS DIDN'T KNOW THE RUSSIAN LANGUAGE ... THE DISCIPLES SHOULD NOT KNOW THE GERMAN. ALL TEACHING WAS EXCLUSIVELY ONLY IN THE LATIN LANGUAGE ... For thirty years (1726-1755) the gymnasium did not prepare a single person to enter the university. ” The following conclusion was drawn from this. It was stated that "the only way out is to write students out of Germany, since it would seem impossible to prepare them from Russians anyway."
          http://historylib.org/historybooks/Fomin_Varyago-Russkiy-vopros-v-istoriografii/
          10
          why Miller, as Pestic noted in 1965, “as a result of 50 years of studies in Russian history ... could not get a complete review of it, which was more or less completed or framed”
      2. ele1285
        ele1285 28 January 2014 19: 42
        +1
        comrades, if you are quoting anyone, then give a link to the author, but it’s not clear, maybe they are contacting me, or maybe not.
      3. nerd.su
        nerd.su 29 January 2014 01: 50
        0
        Quote: kare
        Sorry sweetheart, but you are telling a story created by Miller and Schlozer.

        Tell me the real one? And how did it open to you?
    3. 11111mail.ru
      11111mail.ru 28 January 2014 17: 56
      +2
      Dear / user / Roman 1977 /, you unfortunately did not make a discovery, long before you L.N. Gumilyov considered this situation.
      Kiev from a rich and cultural city would turn into a castle of a robber knight like Bran Bran (now Brandenburg) or a base of pirates with the cult of Svyatovit, as was the case on the island of Ruge (now Rügen). But then the fate of the Western Slavs would have befallen the Rus: the Lutichs, Bodrichs and Pomeranians, who waged constant wars with neighbors and among themselves. For these brave Slavs, not only Germans and Danes, but all the neighbors were enemies, and you cannot live without friends.

      In the book "Ancient Russia and the Great Steppe". Chapter X 64 Explosion of Darkness Third paragraph from the end. Attaching photo. The quote matches 100%. Plagiarism however.
    4. Yuri Sev Caucasus
      Yuri Sev Caucasus 28 January 2014 20: 29
      +3
      I hesitate to ask where the information about the defeat at the dorostol came from; there seems to be an honorable peace made with a large tribute from Byzantium !!! And did you come up with the order about the arson of churches and the carving of Christians?
  • Chicot 1
    Chicot 1 28 January 2014 16: 27
    +8
    However, a minus, dear Author. And not because you smash one religion (the so-called "neo-paganism"), but because you oppose it to another (Orthodox Christianity). Therefore, you commit an act called religious intolerance. And for this act, if I am not mistaken, we have a corresponding article ...
    And to the apologists of "faith and religion" I would like to remind that we live in a secular state, and therefore, for all spits tailored according to the principle "one religion is better than another" should be held responsible according to the current legislation. Is not it?..
    Yes, and how is this opus combined with the Christian principle "love your neighbor as yourself"? .. After all, those who, for one reason or another, adopted paganism / neo-paganism for themselves are also citizens of our country, and even more so - fellow tribesmen in the literal sense of the word ... And you have them in the third grade with one stroke of the pen. Not Christian, however. And essentially illegal ...
    1. old rocket man
      old rocket man 28 January 2014 17: 32
      +4
      Quote: Chicot 1
      Yes, and how is this opus combined with the Christian principle "love your neighbor as yourself"? .. After all, those who, for one reason or another, adopted paganism / neo-paganism for themselves are also citizens of our country, and even more so - fellow tribesmen in the literal sense of the word ... And you have them in the third grade with one stroke of the pen. Not christian however


      Yes, everything is combined. "Neighbor", meaning co-religionists, close spiritually, and not by blood. All branches of Christianity (and other religions) are extremely intolerant of other religions, especially the "pagans." The Orthodox Church is the least aggressive, but this is not her merit, the reason is in the traditional "secularism" of Russian statehood and the weakness of the church itself, as well as the pagans were forcibly baptized, and buffoons were burned, one "split" brought sacrifices no less than any war. By the way, inspired by the Byzantine Orthodox Church.
      1. Chicot 1
        Chicot 1 28 January 2014 18: 03
        0
        Quote: Old Rocketman
        Yes it all fits together

        You are wrong, however, Igor. The word "neighbors" has a much broader wording than you state. These can be both close in spirit, ideological and religious affiliation, and ethnicity (i.e. blood). This is a deep and sacred concept, and therefore it is not worth dividing and splitting it into parts ...
        Quote: Old Rocketman
        All branches of Christianity (and other religions) are extremely intolerant of other religions.

        No one ever doubted that ...
        Quote: Old Rocketman
        the "split" brought sacrifices no less than any war. By the way, inspired by the Byzantine Orthodox Church

        By the time Patriarch Nikon began his reforms (second half of the 17th century), which led to the so-called. "split", the Byzantine Empire (and with it the Byzantine Church) has rested in Bose for two centuries. For the Turks demolished it back in 1453 from the birth of Christ ...
        1. Gregazov
          Gregazov 28 January 2014 21: 53
          0
          You write a little falsehood here. The Eastern patriarchs invited to the trial of Nikon very strongly had a hand in the split. It was a kind of revenge for the independence of the Russian Church. Using the authority of the Patriarchal title, they persuaded the Local Council to annul the decisions of the Stoglav Cathedral, which caused a split in the Russian Church.
    2. Salamander
      Salamander 28 January 2014 17: 49
      +7
      And where do you see hatred of the Gentiles, as people? Quote! The author condemns Paganism; or his supporters - for the erroneous perception of Christianity (and not for religious beliefs).
      1. Chicot 1
        Chicot 1 28 January 2014 18: 10
        -2
        Quote: Salamander
        The author condemns Paganism

        Quote: Chicot 1
        not because you smash one religion (the so-called "neo-paganism"), but because you oppose it to another (Orthodox Christianity)

        Quote: Salamander
        And where do you see hatred of the Gentiles, as people?

        And where do you, in turn, see that I condemn the Author for his hatred of the Gentiles, as people? .. Quote this place in my comments. Please, Nikolay ...
      2. Vasily T.
        Vasily T. 29 January 2014 03: 42
        -1
        And what right does he have to condemn paganism. Did he get his credential from him? And why does he not condemn other religions? Some sort of selectivity is visible in this.
    3. tomket
      tomket 28 January 2014 19: 22
      0
      do not foolishly
    4. Svobodny
      Svobodny 28 January 2014 21: 35
      +1
      Quote: Chicot 1
      Yes, and how does this opus fit in with the Christian principle "love your neighbor as yourself"?


      In the most direct way. The author loves his neighbors and does not want their heads and immortal souls to be polluted with demonic "pagan" delirium.

      Quote: Chicot 1
      religious intolerance


      Want to talk about human rights or tolerance? I'm afraid in this case you will not be understood here.
    5. anarh
      anarh 29 January 2014 02: 58
      -1
      Quote: Chicot 1
      And to the apologists of "faith and religion" I would like to remind that we live in a secular state, and therefore, for all spits tailored according to the principle "one religion is better than another" should be held responsible according to the current legislation.

      First, Christianity is a religion, right.
      But paganism is already an idolatry with human sacrifices.
      Do you call for human sacrifice? Or are you justifying them?
      Such truth-seekers and the sin of sodomy elevated tolerance.
      MINUS to you, however.
      I hope not only mine.
      1. Vasily T.
        Vasily T. 29 January 2014 03: 49
        +2
        Do not carry bullshit! Human sacrifice, where? Do you want to say Christians did not burn people? And the bonfires of the Inquisition? Where do you get all this nonsense from? First you read the works of Tatishchev, I hope this name is familiar to you?
        1. Setrac
          Setrac 29 January 2014 11: 45
          +2
          Quote: Vasily T.
          Do not carry bullshit! Human sacrifice, where? Do you want to say Christians did not burn people? And the bonfires of the Inquisition? Where do you get all this nonsense from? First you read the works of Tatishchev, I hope this name is familiar to you?

          Moreover, I note, unlike the mythical sacrifices of the Gentiles, co-religionists destroyed people in real, documented proof.
      2. Chicot 1
        Chicot 1 29 January 2014 11: 52
        +2
        Quote: Svobodny
        In the most direct way. The author loves his neighbors, and does not want their heads and immortal souls to be polluted with demonic "pagan" delirium

        Once in this way they justified the actions of the Inquisition. But then it was the middle ages ...
        Quote: Svobodny
        Want to talk about human rights or tolerance?

        I want to talk about criminal law, where Russian on white denotes responsibility for acts referred to as religious intolerance. And just the same, the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation has nothing to do with tolerance. This is not his profile ...
        Quote: Svobodny
        I’m afraid in this case they won’t understand you here.

        You may be afraid further, but as they say - "he who knows how to think will understand"...
        Quote: anarh
        First, Christianity is a religion, right.
        But paganism is already an idolatry with human sacrifices

        Wow, how complicated everything is ... You yourself then realized that you wrote ...
        Or would you like to enter into a theological discussion? .. Well, if you please. But I warn you right away - you will have a pale appearance ...
        Quote: anarh
        Do you call for human sacrifice? Or are you justifying them?

        Did you see in my comments calls for human sacrifice? .. Or did you meet their excuses somewhere? ..
        Quote: anarh
        Such truth-seekers and the sin of sodomy elevated tolerance

        Raised in absolute. Or a degree (but this is in mathematics). Tolerance is called for. And therefore, please be kind enough to find in my comments (and there are more than two thousand of them on the site) at least one call for tolerance. Good luck!..
        As you will find, I allow you to dismiss my every comment ...
        And by the way about the cons ...
        Quote: anarh
        MINUS to you, however.
        I hope not only mine

        Yes please. However, they will put the pros ...
        And now back to the earlier written -
        Quote: Chicot 1
        And where do you, in turn, see that I condemn the Author for his hatred of the Gentiles, as people? .. Quote this place in my comments. Please, Nikolay

        There are no quotes, however ... And there will not be. So what were all these high-flying spitches for, Nikolai? ..
  • Stiletto
    Stiletto 28 January 2014 16: 31
    +5
    Many letters, niasil. Who thinks clearly - clearly states. It is necessary to state easier, not to watch things - wider ... winked
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. kare
      kare 28 January 2014 17: 42
      -6
      The Russian Orthodox Church was established in 1945. By order of IVStalin.
      1. tomket
        tomket 28 January 2014 19: 23
        +1
        and before that was the great Martian church?
        1. kare
          kare 28 January 2014 20: 44
          0
          Church, was an Orthodox Greek rite
  • Captain oh
    Captain oh 28 January 2014 16: 38
    .
    Liquid Christianity cattle religion! Shut up and pray the sheep! There is nothing to ponder and reason, all the priests have already decided for you! With all herds of jogging, pray for a dead Jew!
    1. Salamander
      Salamander 28 January 2014 17: 59
      +2
      Hard case... crying
  • Burmistr
    Burmistr 28 January 2014 16: 40
    +7
    Orthodoxy today, brothers, is not at all the Orthodoxy that our ancestors who lived on this earth before us had. Pantheons of the Gods, Sacred Groves, the Great Race. Well, where is all this? We have no history at all! Where did Europe come from in Eurasia? Has anyone heard of a wall 150 meters wide, a moat and many fortifications 2,5 thousand kilometers long? Is it mentioned anywhere in our history? And the remains of it are very clearly visible even now. They keep us in the dark and lower us stronger and stronger. As for religion - so long ago it was said that this is opium for the people)))). There is no point in believing in something. Absolutely. It makes sense to know, it makes sense to strive for something. And faith is a deception turning into self-deception.
    1. Tatanka Yotanka
      Tatanka Yotanka 28 January 2014 17: 41
      +3
      Quote: Burmeister
      Pantheons of the Gods, Sacred Groves,

      Quote: Burmeister
      Has anyone heard of a wall 150 meters wide, a moat and many fortifications 2,5 thousand kilometers long?

      Does this somehow refute the existence of the Creator?
      Quote: Burmeister
      so long ago it was said that this is opium for the people

      Marx said that ...
      Quote: Burmeister
      It makes no sense to believe in something

      then do not believe in feelings, reason, sincerity, love, conscience and
      1. azkolt
        azkolt 28 January 2014 22: 17
        -1
        Lenin said this verbatim, and Marx said: "Religion is the opium of the people." The meaning changes somewhat, doesn't it?
    2. Luzhichanin
      Luzhichanin 28 January 2014 21: 26
      -1
      Quote: Burmeister
      Has anyone heard of a wall 150 meters wide, a moat and many fortifications 2,5 thousand kilometers long? Is it mentioned anywhere in our history?

      Do you say a moat about Trojans? so in the annals of the oldest of the "preserved" it is said about him, they say the Rus fought with the Romans laughing
    3. Salamander
      Salamander 29 January 2014 17: 03
      +1
      Quote: Burmeister
      They keep us in the dark and lower us stronger and stronger. As for religion - so long ago it was said that this is opium for the people)))). There is no point in believing in something. Absolutely. It makes sense to know, it makes sense to strive for something. And faith is a deception turning into self-deception.


      Dear Editor,
      Maybe better about the reactor,
      About your favorite moon tractor
      It’s impossible for a year in a row
      They frighten me with plates
      Say, vile, fly,
      Then your dogs bark
      That ruins say.
      V. Vysotsky "Letter to the editor of the television program" Obvious - incredible ""
  • jekasimf
    jekasimf 28 January 2014 16: 41
    +3
    Do you really think that the Slavic people, like this, voluntarily, with songs and dances, went to the Dnieper to be baptized, refusing, by all means, the 1000-chi of the summer faith! ??? !!! Yes, the Russification of Christians lasted for almost 500 years! a third of the population was destroyed. The Mongol yoke was the result of Christianization. Because Not all the principalities at once converted to Christianity. And there was a fierce civil war. To tear up and weaken Russia. Yes, for which sucker is this stamped article?
    1. Setrac
      Setrac 28 January 2014 16: 54
      -1
      Quote: jekasimf
      Yes, Russi’s Christianization lasted almost 500 years!

      As a result, the Russian people rejected the "Russian Orthodox Church."
      1. 11111mail.ru
        11111mail.ru 28 January 2014 19: 04
        0
        [quote = Setrac] [quote = jekasimf] Yes, Russi’s Christianization lasted for almost 500 years! [/ quote]
        Not yet evening!
      2. tomket
        tomket 28 January 2014 19: 24
        -2
        present a document that will confirm such a loud statement
      3. antinon
        antinon 28 January 2014 21: 38
        0
        [quote = Setrac] [quote = jekasimf] Yes, Russi’s Christianization lasted for almost 500 years! [/ quote]
        As a result, the Russian people rejected the "Russian Orthodox Church". [/ Quote
        "Russian Orthodox Church"
        1. Setrac
          Setrac 28 January 2014 21: 51
          0
          Quote: antinon
          "Russian Orthodox Church"

          The word Orthodox means the old rite, that is, the West calls us Old Believers.
      4. CALL.
        CALL. 30 January 2014 13: 38
        +1
        Quote: Setrac
        As a result, the Russian people rejected the "Russian Orthodox Church."

        Orthodoxy was not rejected by the Russian people. He goes to church a lot now. Including youth. I myself am an atheist by the way.
    2. uralkos
      uralkos 28 January 2014 17: 11
      +3
      Yes, for those who are not in the subject and designed. Who goes with the flow and sees nothing. But paganism (outlook) was distributed practically throughout the world, from which Buddhism came out as a branch for the East and Asia.
      1. tomket
        tomket 28 January 2014 19: 40
        0
        Well, yes, the thunder boomed, here you have the hammer of the torus and the arrow of Perun, which is not clear there, the world outlook is
      2. Corsair5912
        Corsair5912 28 January 2014 20: 03
        +4
        Quote: uralkos
        Yes, for those who are not in the subject and designed. Who goes with the flow and sees nothing. But paganism (outlook) was distributed practically throughout the world, from which Buddhism came out as a branch for the East and Asia.

        From the undead, the Gods guarded
        And there was no way to Russia Enemy
        The priests trapped the prince
        Like in a mortal dream in the winter in the snow.

        Vladimir wanted to become a basileus,
        For the throne betrayed the dust of grandfathers and father,
        And the undead in Russia opened the way,
        And he accepted the cross of the Living Dead.

        The apostate and the squad of savages,
        Jewish poison poured into Russia,
        And in spirit the weak betrayed the faith of grandfathers,
        And in Russia, a terrible hell broke out.

        Darkness eclipsed the light of Law over the Fatherland
        And the forces of Evil triumphantly triumph.
        Treacherous Russia submitted to power
        And the bloody alien cross suffered.

        We are not the shrine of the book of the Jews
        Out of our way with the flock of Christ,
        Slavs are not slaves of the god of the Jews,
        Dazhboga grandchildren were we always.

        So get up, brothers, together for freedom,
        Let everyone decide for himself
        Pray to the Russian mother Nature,
        Or the Jewish Living Dead.
        1. azkolt
          azkolt 28 January 2014 22: 21
          0
          Yes, there are clearly not Plato and Xenophones! Gods and everything is here! It seems that the ancient pagans who had the concept of the Demiurge were smarter than modern educated pagans!
        2. Zapasnoy
          Zapasnoy 28 January 2014 22: 26
          0
          And you do not take into account that the actual global connection of the Slavic tribes took place after the adoption of the Orthodox faith. And the Russian Empire was not in the greatest power with the Orthodox faith? And the departure from faith did not lead to a revolution? The romance of paganism will not lead to anything good. Well, in fact, no one is forced to believe in one God, everyone decides for himself. The Orthodox Church calls, but does not take away freedom of will. So why insult and fight, show respect - with your words "Let everyone decide for himself what suits him."
    3. Svobodny
      Svobodny 28 January 2014 21: 41
      +1
      Quote: jekasimf
      What sucker is this stamped article for?

      The article was written not for a "sucker", but for cultured people who know and understand history, who know how to express their own thoughts competently and without harsh words and do not call the Baptism of Rus
      Quote: jekasimf
      Russie Christianity
      .
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 29 January 2014 04: 42
        +2
        Quote: Svobodny
        The article was written not for "sucker", but for cultured people,

        Well, yes, just reading komenty, I am glad that there are great distances between us, otherwise we would have killed each other in a crazy debate - crazy versions.
        1. Andrey Yuryevich
          Andrey Yuryevich 29 January 2014 05: 33
          +2
          laughing laughing laughing would bite each other 100%.
  • SLOVO
    SLOVO 28 January 2014 16: 44
    +3
    The state became secular after the Bolsheviks came to power and the assassination of the royal family, please do not forget about this. I liked the article very much. Dogmas, then they are dogmas, they are taken for granted. To argue with this is stupid.
    1. old rocket man
      old rocket man 28 January 2014 17: 39
      +4
      Quote: SLOVO
      Dogmas, then they are dogmas, they are taken for granted. To argue with this is stupid.


      Keyword Dogma.
      To argue with dogmas and religious fanatics is really futile
      1. Little Russia
        Little Russia 28 January 2014 21: 48
        +2
        I agree, especially applicable to ideological dogmas and party fanatics.
      2. Gregazov
        Gregazov 28 January 2014 22: 34
        0
        The dogmas of faith are defined at the First Ecumenical Council in Nicaea under Constantine the Great and have not been revised by the Orthodox since then. Catholics add dogma (for example, on the infallibility of the Pope, on the integrity of the conception of the Virgin Mary, etc.)
    2. Mikhail m
      Mikhail m 28 January 2014 20: 52
      +1
      The family is not a king, but a former king who escaped from responsibility for the country and people in difficult times.
    3. 11111mail.ru
      11111mail.ru 29 January 2014 18: 23
      +1
      Quote: SLOVO
      The state became secular after the Bolsheviks came to power

      Really?
      Upon the abolition by Peter I (1701) of the patriarchal administration of the church, from 1721 until August 1917 (nominally existed until February 1 (14), 1918), the Most Holy Governing Synod established by him was the highest state body of church administrative power in the Russian Empire, replacing the patriarch with regard to general church functions and external relations, as well as the councils of all bishops local church. (http://baryshnikovphotography.com/bertewor/ Holy Synod).
      The patriarchate in Russia was restored on October 28 (November 11) 1917 by the decision of the All-Russian Local Council. (http://www.blagobor.by/article/history/patriarch).
      By your lips (judging by the comment) Peter I (Romanov) was the first Bolshevik in the world!
  • shelva
    shelva 28 January 2014 16: 46
    +5
    Since the XNUMXth century, Orthodoxy has been the state religion of Russia, Russia, which means that any actions aimed at splitting Orthodoxy will somehow negatively affect the solidity of society and, as a result, weaken the state.
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    2. atalef
      atalef 28 January 2014 16: 55
      -1
      Quote: uralkos
      Why was the gospel of Andrew the first-called banned? Quote

      do not quote what is not available. The gospel of Andrew was rejected by Gelasius and lost.
      Do not invent what is not.
      1. Setrac
        Setrac 28 January 2014 17: 00
        +5
        Quote: atalef
        The gospel of Andrew was rejected by Gelasius and lost.

        Strange huh? The gospel of Andrew is lost, not the Talmud.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. atalef
          atalef 28 January 2014 17: 16
          0
          Quote: Setrac
          Strange huh? Lost the Gospel of Andrew, not the Talmud

          Nothing strange, I lost my car key yesterday, but my neighbor is gone. Conspiracy?
          By the way, read what the Talmud is. You probably meant the Torah.
          1. Setrac
            Setrac 28 January 2014 17: 21
            +3
            Quote: atalef
            Nothing strange, I lost my car key yesterday

            You probably lost two spare sets of keys at once? And at the same time.

            Quote: atalef
            By the way, read what the Talmud is. You probably meant the Torah.

            What difference does it make, I could give as an example any other similar brochure.
        3. uralkos
          uralkos 28 January 2014 17: 23
          +3
          Something like this, a little irony of sadness and truth about us.
      2. uralkos
        uralkos 28 January 2014 17: 14
        +5
        It is more than not lost and stored in the Vatican, but until public study it is not recommended, so do not frighten the fever.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. atalef
          atalef 28 January 2014 17: 18
          0
          Quote: uralkos
          It is more than not lost and stored in the Vatican

          Can I link to the archive? Or inventory? Or an elementary confirmation from a reputable source?
          Quote: uralkos
          but prior to public study, it is highly discouraged, so do not overpower a fever.

          At the same time, everyone quotes him, especially the 5th chapter laughing
          1. old rocket man
            old rocket man 28 January 2014 17: 43
            +6
            Quote: atalef
            Can I link to the archive? Or inventory? Or an elementary confirmation from a reputable source?


            Can I have a link about the lost keys? laughing
            1. atalef
              atalef 28 January 2014 23: 06
              -1
              Quote: Old Rocketman
              Can I have a link about the lost keys?

              Again nothing to say. Well, in general, I did not expect anything else from you.
              Throw phrases. but as you ask for confirmation or links --- to the bushes. laughing
              1. Beaver
                Beaver 29 January 2014 16: 35
                +1
                Quote: atalef
                Throw phrases. but as you ask for confirmation or links --- to the bushes.

                Where are your confirmations?
          2. Tron
            Tron 29 January 2014 03: 36
            +2
            Quote: atalef
            Can I link to the archive? Or inventory? Or an elementary confirmation from a reputable source?

            A reference can be on the source from which your Torah was written? Or did your chroniclers exist before Adam appeared?
        3. anarh
          anarh 29 January 2014 03: 15
          +1
          Quote: uralkos
          It is more than not lost and stored in the Vatican, but until public study it is not recommended, so do not smack

          And then how did you get this knowledge?
          Personally, they got into the Vatican or did one of the cardinals whisper in secret?
      3. Yuri Sev Caucasus
        Yuri Sev Caucasus 28 January 2014 20: 58
        +1
        that is, if he was lost, then he was not there, so it turns out ??? Like not a thief?
        however, you have a good argument! By the way, how did you lose the Torah? then restored bit by bit the memory of the old survivors, or is it Muslims all come up with ???
        1. atalef
          atalef 28 January 2014 23: 04
          -2
          Quote: Yuri Sev Caucasus
          oh is if they lost him, then he was gone, so it turns out?

          was. only no one knows. what was written there.
          Quote: Yuri Sev Caucasus
          you have a good argument

          great . in the absence of the original. you can invent anything. what was there

          Quote: Yuri Sev Caucasus
          ! By the way, how did you lose the Torah?


          they didn’t lose the torus - or please, a reference to some kind of trustworthy document
          Quote: Yuri Sev Caucasus
          or is it Muslims all come up ??

          In general, you came up with this
          1. Beaver
            Beaver 29 January 2014 16: 37
            +2
            Quote: atalef
            great . in the absence of the original. you can invent anything. what was there

            Comfortable huh? For those who want to rewrite history. Now we understand the root cause of the bonfires of the Inquisition.
    3. Little Russia
      Little Russia 28 January 2014 21: 50
      +2
      do not confuse religion and politics. pagan empires are all the same and their end is also predetermined by their deeds. Paganism is crap.
      1. abrakadabre
        abrakadabre 30 January 2014 09: 30
        0
        pagan empires are all the same and their end is also predetermined by their deeds. Paganism is crap.
        All empires are somewhat similar, not just pagan. And history does not know eternal empires. Long-living yes, eternal - no.
        Paganism is not crap, but a natural stage in the development of society. No more.
    4. Gregazov
      Gregazov 28 January 2014 22: 30
      0
      Quote: uralkos
      They rejected hundreds of thousands of years of history, and all for the sake of faith, which was originally intended for Jews.
      And Jesus answered him: “Go to the nations of the east, to the nations of the west and to the nations of the south, where the sons of the house of Israel live. Do not go to the pagans of the north, for they are sinless and do not know the vices and sins of the house of Israel ”(Gospel of Andrew, ch. 5 vv. 1-3).

      For my 50 I have not met a single sinless person. The use of such a term can only indicate a fake.
      1. Beaver
        Beaver 29 January 2014 16: 38
        0
        Quote: GregAzov
        For my 50 I have not met a single sinless person. The use of such a term can only indicate a fake.

        You saw them (sinless) in sufficient numbers - these are small children.
    5. anarh
      anarh 29 January 2014 03: 10
      0
      Quote: uralkos
      They rejected hundreds of thousands of years of history, and all for the sake of faith, which was originally intended for Jews.

      Where have you read such heresies?
      I paraphrase Professor Preobrazhensky a little:
      "Don't read Internet articles at dinner."
  • Risk
    Risk 28 January 2014 16: 54
    +6
    I read until the time when Vladimir made sacrifices to Perun, including human ones, it became clear, the author didn’t foot in the subject ... Where were the human victims, what kind of stupidity? But those who refused to be baptized, these were the victims, but to which god? Ugly article. We are all Russian, and if someone believes in Christianity, I will not call him Orthodoxy, it is their will, and I do not want to prove the opposite. And as for the Tartar-Mogul yoke, everything is written here with a pitchfork, because thanks to Peter 1 we don’t know anything about what came before him. Because we wrote chronicles, destroyed them and we are now studying history. But these articles appear because the Russian Orthodox Church is leaving the ground under its feet, that's all.
    1. Zapasnoy
      Zapasnoy 28 January 2014 20: 37
      -2
      Quote: Rishka
      for thanks to Peter 1 we know nothing of what came before him. Because we wrote chronicles, destroyed them and we are now studying history. But these articles appear because the Russian Orthodox Church is leaving the ground under its feet, that's all.
      Read Platonov's "Complete course of lectures on Russian history", Peter I, on the contrary, collected ancient chronicles and books from all monasteries (of course, not for destruction). And you dream about the collapse of the Russian Orthodox Church in vain. Take a peek at the nearest Temple, young and middle-aged people predominate wink
      1. SHOCK.
        SHOCK. 28 January 2014 22: 21
        0
        "And you dream about the collapse of the Russian Orthodox Church in vain. Take a look at the nearest Temple, people of young and middle age prevail."
        And here you are, dear Zapasnoy, you need to look at Andrei Kuraev’s blog. You will learn a lot of interesting things.
    2. azkolt
      azkolt 28 January 2014 22: 30
      -1
      It looks like you’re off topic with a foot! They didn’t even read about the sacrifice of two Varangian Christians. By the way, this is described in the Radziwill Chronicle!
    3. anarh
      anarh 29 January 2014 03: 20
      0
      Quote: Rishka
      But these articles appear because the Russian Orthodox Church is leaving the ground under its feet, that's all.

      Yes, does not go away.
      Just LIBERALS TOGETHER WITH NEOPAGIANS trying to knock her out.
      You have chosen a good party as your allies.
  • Captain oh
    Captain oh 28 January 2014 16: 55
    -1
    In my opinion, a clear example of the superiority of one religion over another! In the mosque, sermons teach to wet Russians. In the synagogue they learn to rob Russians. And the Russians themselves in the church are taught to endure and humble themselves. Well, who is surprised by the result of a long and systematic work?
  • shower
    shower 28 January 2014 17: 07
    +1
    I looked at the headline, I immediately understood in a nutshell I will not state it, I was not mistaken. Immediately in komenty, it is clear there is nothing to read.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Captain oh
    Captain oh 28 January 2014 17: 15
    -2
    Where are there before the Jews, thanks helped and continue to help .....
    1. Salamander
      Salamander 28 January 2014 18: 21
      +9


      The patriarch speaks of the attitude towards the Slavs on the part of the "enlightened" peoples. Key words "although we have never been barbarians."

      And when will people finally learn to recognize fakes? I thought, everyone already understood everything and abandoned this video ...
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. Setrac
      Setrac 28 January 2014 17: 29
      +12
      Quote: demotivator
      the author meant something else

      Apparently you did not watch the interview with Patriarch Kirill, you immediately began to study propaganda. Otherwise, you would know that these words of Patriarch Kirill were taken out of context. The Patriarch QUOTED the words of Western historiography about the Slavs, visually showing what they think of us. This is a similar deception in the spirit of Western propaganda, and here you are, in fair anger (and fair?) Ready to drive a wave in the Russian Orthodox Church.
      1. Hamul
        Hamul 28 January 2014 20: 42
        +1
        Oh oh oh, they offended the Patriarch. Maybe someone remembers the mysterious disappearance of watches? Or about a yacht, or about a bunch of heaps of sins.
        Or maybe we recall the huge cash injections into the Russian Orthodox Church from the state?
        Or maybe we recall the trade in wine-free duty-free goods?
        Or maybe we recall the absence of taxes for the Russian Orthodox Church? Customs duties, etc.?
        1. Svobodny
          Svobodny 28 January 2014 21: 49
          +3
          Quote: Hamul
          Or maybe remember

          Or maybe let's start with ourselves?
        2. anarh
          anarh 29 January 2014 03: 50
          +4
          Quote: Hamul
          Maybe someone remembers the mysterious disappearance of watches? Or about a yacht, or about a bunch of heaps of sins.

          And remember that these revelations were thrown by the liberal media.
          Very truthful.
          And until self-forgetfulness, they love the Russian world.
          And to the heap let us recall "Rain", one of the mouthpieces of these media.
          Who conducted a blasphemous survey about the victims in besieged Leningrad (http://ria.ru/society/20140128/991762794.html), and when their tail was pinched, they began to squeak that "the bunch is not mine."

          Do you rely on these means of truthful information in your judgments?
  • kare
    kare 28 January 2014 17: 28
    -4
    Rus and Slovenes are the most ancient nation. The so-called prince Vladimir - "clear sun", was never a prince. But he was a "kogan." But even then there was no Orthodox Church, there was an Orthodox Church. It was made Orthodox by the priests together with the communists in 1945.
    Before that, she was called the Orthodox of the Greek rite. The Radziwill Chronicle is the hard work of those who were engaged in forgery of our true history, replaced by the history of Schlözer and Miler. And the Russians and Slovenes were called Orthodox. The meanness of Patriarch Nikon was to replace the concept of Orthodoxy with Christianity. Read the old and new testaments. This is an abbreviated copy of the Torah. Just those clear passages of the Torah, which shows the parasitic nature of the people, worshiping Yahweh, Jehovah, are removed from "our" holy books
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. atalef
      atalef 28 January 2014 17: 45
      +1
      Setrac Today, 17:34 | The Baptism of Russia, or the "superpatriotism" of Slavic neopaganism


      Atalef brought me to the black list. The God-chosen did not like the truth.

      D.u. richer in thought laughing
    3. Rebus
      Rebus 28 January 2014 18: 31
      +5
      Quote: kare
      The so-called prince Vladimir - "clear sun", was never a prince. But he was a "kogan."

      1. Prince Vladimir could not be a Khazar kogan, due to the destruction of the Khazar Khaganate by his father, Prince Svyatoslav.
      2. Prince Vladimir could not have been acquainted with Patriarch Nikon, because Nikon was born more than 600 years after Vladimir.
      Quote: kare
      Read the old and new testaments. This is an abbreviated copy of the Torah. Just those clear passages of the Torah, which shows the parasitic nature of the people, worshiping Yahweh, Jehovah, are removed from "our" holy books

      I have read many times, the Torah is only the first 5 books of the Bible (the Bible is the books of the Old Testament and New collected together). The Bible contains 66 canonical books and 11 apocrypha, that is, a total of 77 books. Therefore, the Bible cannot be an abridged copy of the Torah.
      Study the question carefully before writing such nonsense.
      1. kare
        kare 28 January 2014 23: 01
        -3
        Well, now the text of the "Words of Law and Grace" itself:
        Original text

        About ZAKONѢ, MOISѢOM DANѢѢM, AND ON BLAGODѢTI And ISTINѢ, ISUSOM HRISTOM former and KAKO zakon OTIDE, BLAGODѢT and truth the whole earth followed, VѢRA unto ALL language simple and to our language RUSKAGO, praise Kagan OUR Wlodzimierz FROM Unbecoming Baptism BYHOM AND PRAYER TO GOD FROM ALL OUR LAND

        I didn’t say such nonsense that Kogan Vladimir was acquainted with Nikon. He was the adopted son of Svyatoslav. He simply said briefly that they both did one thing, I agree that at different times.
        If I read the torus more than once, I take off my hat, I mastered only the old and the new, I only got to the torus, but what I know selectively from it. This book is not inspired.
        1. Rebus
          Rebus 28 January 2014 23: 27
          +3
          Quote: kare
          I mastered only the old and the new, I only reached the Torah

          Apparently, you still have not read.
          The Torah in Christianity is the five books of Moses and these are the first five books of the Old Testament, namely:
          1. Being
          2. Outcome
          3. Leviticus
          4.Numbers
          5. Deuteronomy
          That is, if you, as you say, read the Old Testament, then you could not help but read these books.
    4. tomket
      tomket 28 January 2014 19: 08
      +1
      frost grew stronger and with it MARASM
    5. anarh
      anarh 29 January 2014 03: 54
      +2
      Quote: kare
      The so-called prince Vladimir - "clear sun", was never a prince. But he was a "kogan". The Khozar Kagonate professed various religions

      Do not read American fairy tales at night - nightmares will torment.
    6. Penzuck
      Penzuck 29 January 2014 13: 55
      0
      Karoche bro, listen here. I’ll ask you three questions at once, so that you answer me:
      1. Recently I read in comets allegedly Dobrynya Nikitich (Nikita (from Greek - winner) is his father, And the Greeks baptized Russians with GREEK NAMES), and if Dobrynya is the brother of "Malusha", perhaps they are all three Christians.
      2. Patriarch Nikon (look at the Erzya sites) is a Mordvin, as well as ProtopOP (also the Greek word, by the way) Hvacuum. Do you not consider this fact an attempt by the Mordvinians to introduce their Trojan horses into the Russian Orthodox Church?
      3. I read the Old Testament. I even read the refutation of the entire Muslim religion, I partially studied Buddhism. May I put out on the basis of this in Theological disputes with you.
  • Setrac
    Setrac 28 January 2014 17: 34
    -1
    Atalef blacklisted me laughing The God-chosen did not like the truth of the goy.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Setrac
    Setrac 28 January 2014 17: 42
    +2
    Quote: atalef
    Who the hell are you?

    So went rotten Zekovsky bazaar, and what else to expect from a man with such a flag! He doesn’t just come to the Russian forum.
  • Captain oh
    Captain oh 28 January 2014 17: 43
    -2
    Oooh ... Where can you get acquainted with this great opus (in the spirit of domestic propaganda) in full? Maybe give a link, or hostile Western resources do not store such works of the true "Russian" faith?
    Quote: Setrac

    Apparently you did not watch the interview with Patriarch Kirill, you immediately began to study propaganda. Otherwise, you would know that these words of Patriarch Kirill were taken out of context. The Patriarch QUOTED the words of Western historiography about the Slavs, visually showing what they think of us. This is a similar deception in the spirit of Western propaganda, and here you are, in fair anger (and fair?) Ready to drive a wave in the Russian Orthodox Church.
    1. Setrac
      Setrac 28 January 2014 17: 52
      -2
      Quote: Captain O
      Maybe give a link,

      Search on YouTube.
      1. Captain oh
        Captain oh 28 January 2014 17: 56
        -2
        Yeah, look and find out ..... Especially what is not. Did you listen to the sermon in the Cathedral of Christ the Savior live, in tears and on your knees?
        1. Setrac
          Setrac 28 January 2014 17: 57
          +3
          Quote: Captain O
          Did you listen to the sermon in the Cathedral of Christ the Savior live, in tears and on your knees?

          I didn’t want to put a minus, but I have to.
        2. RUSS
          RUSS 28 January 2014 18: 10
          -3
          Everyone believes in what he wants to believe, if a person prays to a wooden idol in a grove, let him pray. But they not only pray over their logs, but denigrate the Christian faith, with such it is necessary to carry out "preventive" work with "executions."
          1. Rebus
            Rebus 28 January 2014 18: 49
            +6
            Quote: RUSS
            Everyone believes in what he wants to believe, if a person prays to a wooden idol in a grove, let him pray. But they not only pray over their logs, but denigrate the Christian faith, with such it is necessary to carry out "preventive" work with "executions."

            As a rule, people denigrating Christianity are just foolish people, and executions cannot help here ...
            People forget that the heyday of neopaganism fell on the first half of the XNUMXth century and forget that these neopagans wore a black uniform with runes on their buttonholes and a swastika on their sleeves ...
            1. SHOCK.
              SHOCK. 28 January 2014 22: 31
              -4
              "People forget that neo-paganism flourished in the first half of the XNUMXth century and they forget that these neo-pagans wore black uniforms with runes on their collar tabs and a swastika on their sleeves ..."
              Dear Rebus, do not twist about the swastika and runic writing, this is not beautiful. Better look and read about this material.
              1. Rebus
                Rebus 28 January 2014 22: 56
                +5
                Quote: Sh.O.K.
                Dear Rebus, do not twist about the swastika and runic writing, this is not beautiful. Better look and read about this material.

                I see no reason to distort
                The original purity of the superman was understood by the ideologists of the Third Reich exclusively as racial purity. The extraordinary power of the ancient heroes, their magical abilities, and much more were associated with her. Therefore, it was precisely this characteristic of society that was considered part of the program of the mystical transformation of the nation and the key to success in the war.

                The race of Aryans - the ancestors of Germanic tribes - was for ideologists the very source from which one could “draw inspiration” and consider it as a convincing example of infallibility. It was believed that the customs of this people survived in secret societies, which in all centuries opposed the degradation of mankind and preserved ancient knowledge. They could be perceived only by turning back the clock, bringing the Germans closer to this prototype.

                Another source of spiritual strength was seen by the leadership of the Third Reich in an appeal to the ancient gods and the introduction of their symbolism in order to enlist their support.
                Sergey Viktorovich Zubkov
                "Third Reich under the banner of the occult"

                And the runic symbols and the swastika of the Third Reich stems precisely from paganism.
              2. anarh
                anarh 29 January 2014 04: 08
                +2
                Quote: Sh.O.K.
                Dear Rebus, do not twist about the swastika and runic writing, this is not beautiful. Better look and read about this material.

                Where to look for something?
                On Washington-funded sites?
            2. heathen
              heathen 30 January 2014 19: 29
              +1
              There is one very good saying about this: "A pig will find dirt everywhere"
          2. anarh
            anarh 29 January 2014 04: 04
            +3
            Quote: RUSS
            with such it is necessary to carry out "preventive" work with "executions."

            Preventive work is necessary - for they are intoxicated with American fairy tales, because they are led to the name "Tales for True Slavs."
            Executions - not necessary.
            Executions do not convince.
            It is not the erring brother who needs executions, but the overseas educational center.
          3. heathen
            heathen 30 January 2014 19: 34
            +1
            Why, really, maybe right at the stake? Would you like to return the good old days of Torquemada and Patriarch Nikon?
  • demel2
    demel2 28 January 2014 17: 46
    +4
    Since the beginning of perestroika, Russia has wide open its doors to all religious and pseudo-religious organizations, and countless preachers, barkers and magicians have flooded the country. But this was not a random crowd, but a well-planned and deeply echeloned invasion with clear goals, objectives, methods, and delimitation of spheres of action and influence. And the invasion was extremely dangerous. What prevents the current priests from reaching out to people rather than complaining that the crowds have flooded. Why are there Muslim preachers and no Christian ones, why do they sit in their mansions, ride smart cars, grow their belly and nobody on the streets? In recent years, priests have discredited themselves and faith, more than all the enemies combined. And then in such articles they complain that people are looking for another faith, therefore more and more Russian Muslims appear. And the tobacco metropolitan with his palaces is generally a song.
    1. CreepyUknow
      CreepyUknow 28 January 2014 20: 48
      +4
      Hope you are lucky not to go to jail, hospice hospital or homelessness. Otherwise, you will understand that priests do not sit "in their mansions." The fact that they do not come to your apartment, I think, is normal.
    2. anarh
      anarh 29 January 2014 04: 27
      +2
      Quote: demel2
      Why are there Muslim preachers and no Christian

      Because Orthodoxy assumes that a person should voluntarily come to the temple and it’s not a matter of driving him there with rods (albeit ideological),
      It is also assumed that a person who seeks God will follow the Faith of the fathers, and will follow the enemies of his people.
      And he will not overturn his ears to his soul to filthy speeches.
      And priests go to prisons, to cancer hospitals, to orphanages.
      But then you can’t see this because of the computer.
      Oh, how filthy it is to slander the Bearers of the Faith of the Fathers.
      It was once an accidental witness how a drunk peasant by Great Lent broadcasted to his companions about priests eating pork.
      I doubt very much that he would be invited to a church meal.
      It looks like you are from the same experts.

      Quote: demel2

      A tobacco metropolitan with his palaces is generally a song.

      Song. Steamy. From someone else's voice.
      And it doesn’t matter to her to sing along.
      1. washi
        washi 29 January 2014 09: 08
        0
        Quote: anarh
        Because Orthodoxy assumes that a person should voluntarily come to the temple and it’s not a matter of driving him there with rods

        That is why Russia was baptized with fire and sword
        1. Penzuck
          Penzuck 29 January 2014 14: 10
          0
          That is, in your opinion, the great Equal-to-the-Apostles PRINCESS Olga was baptized by fire and sword? And Dobrynya Nikitich (His father is an Orthodox Christian) also probably was baptized by fire, Olesha priests son was also unbelief probably, Well, about Elijah (help the name translate the Jews) from Mordovia, the city of Murom, too, was probably baptized by force.
          1. Setrac
            Setrac 29 January 2014 14: 21
            -2
            Quote: Penzuck
            That is, in your opinion, the great Equal-to-the-Apostles PRINCESS Olga was baptized by fire and sword?

            Do not confuse soft with warm. This mess in your head because you equate the words "Orthodox" and "Christian", and these two concepts are not equal.
            The Orthodox is not necessarily Christian, and the Christian is not necessarily Orthodox.
            And it could well be Olesha priests son to be the son of an Orthodox priest - not a Christian.
            I will notice that Russia was "baptized", not "Orthodox"
            1. Salamander
              Salamander 29 January 2014 16: 22
              +1
              Actually, there is the concept of "Orthodox Christian". And how in Russia at that time could there be an ORTHODOX PRIEST - but not a Christian? I am tormented by vague doubts ... laughing
          2. alexandr00070
            alexandr00070 29 January 2014 15: 23
            0
            Quote: Penzuck
            That is, in your opinion, the great Equal-to-the-Apostles PRINCESS Olga was baptized by fire and sword? And Dobrynya Nikitich (His father is an Orthodox Christian) also probably was baptized by fire, Olesha priests son was also unbelief probably, Well, about Elijah (help the name translate the Jews) from Mordovia, the city of Murom, too, was probably baptized by force.

            You beguiled, between Olga and "Ilya Muromets" several centuries of legends about Ilya and other heroes are applicable to the reign of Vladimir Monomakh, read carefully the Russian epic. And Dobrynya, under Prince Vladimir 1, was a brother of his mother. THERE ARE NOT SO MANY SLAVES, HOW MUCH HOSTAGE (then it was customary) of the Khazar princess Malusha, well, since she was a Khazarin, then the brother was a Khazarin, and now find how Dobrynya Novgorod baptized (the city who raised Vladimir), how many souls were ruined, but only the princely army was stronger in Kiev too
            1. Salamander
              Salamander 29 January 2014 16: 34
              0
              Quote: alexandr00070
              of the Khazar Princess Malusha, well, since she was a Khazar, then her brother was a Khazarin


              And why not Israeli - would that explain everything? laughing Why exactly Khazar? How can a man named "Malusha" and a father named Malk Lyubechanin be a Khazar woman ???
              1. Salamander
                Salamander 29 January 2014 17: 22
                +4
                Well, of course, it’s always possible to put a minus, but is there enough strength to explain your point of view? Where did the information about the Khazar Malush come from?
                1. Setrac
                  Setrac 29 January 2014 17: 26
                  -3
                  Quote: Salamander
                  Well, of course, it’s always possible to put a minus, but is there enough strength to explain your point of view? Where did the information about the Khazar Malush come from?

                  Counter-question - where did the information about pagan sacrifices come from?
                  1. abrakadabre
                    abrakadabre 30 January 2014 09: 39
                    +2
                    Counterquestion
                    Counter-questions without giving the opponent first arguments in favor of his innocence are one of the most common demagogic tricks.
                  2. Salamander
                    Salamander 30 January 2014 21: 01
                    0
                    Quote: Setrac

                    Counter-question - where did the information about pagan sacrifices come from?

                    And that means that my question cannot be answered. And I will answer yours:
                    1) Analogies with other pagan religions - they all used sacrifices.
                    2) From the wiki:
                    Texts of Byzantine authors of the XNUMXth – XNUMXth centuries: Procopius of Caesarea, Theophylact of Simocatta, Konstantin Bagryanorodny, Leo Deacon and others. West European authors of the XNUMXth – XNUMXth centuries: Bavarian Geographer, Titmar of Merseburg, Helmold, Saxon Grammatik and others. Arab authors of the XNUMXth – XNUMXth centuries -Massudi, Ibn Fadlan, Ibn Ruste and others. In the XNUMXth century Scandinavian sagas, in the Elder and Younger Edds, there is information that can be used to reconstruct Slavic paganism. Old Russian, West Slavic (Kozma Prazhsky with its “Czech Chronicle”) and South Slavic sources of the XNUMXth – XNUMXth centuries: annals, teachings and instructions against the Gentiles (Cyril of Turovsky, Kirik Novgorodets and others) and inserts in translated literature, including apocrypha. A special place is occupied by the "Word about Igor's regiment."


                    3) From the wiki:
                    written sources of the XV — XVII centuries and folklore sources of the XVIII — XX centuries, which are less close to paganism, but contain a number of information from earlier sources that have not reached us, as well as detailed records of legends, fairy tales, epics, plots, legends and ex-sayings, proverbs and sayings by which it is possible to restore ancient myths.


                    And this is only from Wikipedia, without getting into specialized literature.

                    PySy: Maybe answer my question?
                    1. Setrac
                      Setrac 30 January 2014 21: 48
                      -3
                      Quote: Salamander
                      1) Analogies with other pagan religions - they all used sacrifices.

                      So say it - from the flashlight.
                      1. The comment was deleted.
                      2. Salamander
                        Salamander 31 January 2014 21: 45
                        0
                        Well, I understand, for you everything is "from the lantern", any sources are fake! And it will be: "Each person knows such a story for which he has enough imagination" (redone)
                        I can only wish you a happy journey forward to the world of myths and legends ...
                      3. abrakadabre
                        abrakadabre 4 February 2014 10: 31
                        0
                        Well, I understand, for you everything is "from the lantern", any sources are fake!

                        Far from it! If you had a scientific methodology, you would not say that. In science, it is customary to check and recheck ALL sources. Even the most reliable ones. And only by the sum of cross-checking of different sources, this or that fact is accepted as the truth. But, even in this case, with a confidence level. As, for example, the school formula of the law of universal gravitation is correct ... With a correction for Einstein's theory of relativity, for special conditions, that is, for high speeds. And so in ALL branches of knowledge of official science. But alternative science does not follow this approach. Or it observes only if and only as long as the results of the scientific method are consistent with the conclusions and "convenient" facts of such "scientists".
                        Any theory must be consistently proven before becoming officially recognized in the current round of general human knowledge. Alternative "science" tries to avoid this as much as possible and immediately crawl into the status of official truths.
                        I can only wish you a happy journey forward to the world of myths and legends ...
                        Thank you, but clearly distinguish reality from ...
              2. abrakadabre
                abrakadabre 30 January 2014 09: 34
                +3
                Where did the information about the Khazar Malush come from?
                From the finger, of course. Unlike call girls, some individuals suck out simply do scientific miracles.
            2. alexandr00070
              alexandr00070 29 January 2014 17: 58
              0
              Quote: Salamander
              And why not Israeli - would that explain everything?

              well, you express one of the versions, I’m the other, according to my version all the further fate of Russia is laid down by the actions of the Khazars and revenge by the Slavs for the defeated Khazaria, if you follow your version, it’s strange to see what the prince so hated his people.
              than not the version ...............
              The notorious Vladimir was the son of the housekeeper Malusha, who was at the service of his grandmother - Princess Olga. This pet name comes from her father, Rabbi Malka. Translated from Hebrew, Malk is a king. In history, he was called Dobrynya, but it would be a mistake to assume that this is a Russian name. It also comes from the Hebrew name Dobran, which means a chatterbox, orator, talker. In view of the close harmony with the Russian word, it is used to call Dobrynya. In his affairs, he showed himself in all his Levitic scope - exceptionally cruel, as befits a Jew brought up in the family of a rabbi.
              Princess Olga was very angry not so much because her son Svyatoslav was confused in the stable with her housekeeper, but because the latter belonged to the infamous exploitative family of the Jews. She sent Malusha to Pskov, where the illegitimate half-Jew Rabbi Vladimir was born. In the future, the word rabbinic, again, in tune, will be stubbornly replaced as "son of a slave", rabichich

              The historian Valery Emelyanov (1929-1999) built on this assumption his attitude to Prince Vladimir. “... Emelyanov“ exposed ”the Kiev prince Vladimir, the baptist of Russia, as a vile traitor. What is Prince Vladimir guilty of before Russia? The riddle is revealed simply. Not wanting to see the fundamental difference between Judaism and Christianity, Emelyanov called the adoption of Christianity by Prince Vladimir and the revolution of 1917 the most catastrophic events in the history of Russia: “After all, in 988 the international Zion was able to crush the main and almost the last at that time main center of Aryan ideology, replacing it with reformed, or rather, Esperantized Judaism in the form of the eastern branch of Christianity, that is, Orthodoxy. " Thus, the “Aryan” history, ideology and culture were allegedly taken from the Russian people. How did it happen that the Russian prince laid the foundation for the implementation of this “devilish plan”? This did not surprise Emelyanov at all - after all, the mother of the Russian prince was, it turns out, a Jew, and his grandfather was closely associated with the Khazar Kaganate, who occupied and mercilessly exploited the ancient Russian lands. Picking up this “discovery” of Emelyanov, the anti-Semite from St. Petersburg V.N. Bezverkhiy (1930–2000) argued that on the eve of Christianization, the Jews deliberately introduced a cult of rude idols and bloody sacrifices in Russia, in order to then fight this cult and plant the “slavish ideology of Christianity” . It was as if their revenge for the defeat of the Khazaria was expressed in it ”[3].
              V. Emelyanov (“Desionization”, 1979, Paris [4]) writes: “Having ascended the throne of Kiev, according to a previously developed insidious plan, he begins to show increased reverence for the Aryan gods. Calls to put idols previously unknown in Russia and not only worship them, but also to sacrifice innocent boys. Sacrificial blood was collected and delivered to Jewish customers. 10 years of idolatry, accompanied by bloody fanaticism, as planned, blew up the Aryan religion from the inside. The Russians began to murmur on their own Gods, who had been reverently worshiped for millennia. Only after that did Vladimir introduce Christianity by force, without provoking particularly powerful resistance, which could cost him his life. ”
            3. heathen
              heathen 30 January 2014 20: 14
              +1
              I wonder what is "Malk" in Russian, what does it mean? But the Khazars had such a name "Malik", translated as "king". Well, the fact that the Khazars in many Russian cities dug in, and so survived the fall of the Khaganate is not news.
              1. The comment was deleted.
              2. Salamander
                Salamander 31 January 2014 21: 50
                0
                So, we get: Tsar (Khazar) Lubechinin! Vague doubts torment me ...
                1. heathen
                  heathen 1 February 2014 22: 15
                  0
                  We are talking about a name, not a title
        2. heathen
          heathen 30 January 2014 20: 05
          0
          In my opinion, your Olga was something like the current liberals - in the same way She squinted to the West with a hungry eye, and crammed into vassalage to Emperor Otto, summoning Bishop Adalbert to Russia for "enlightenment". Well, at least the Grand Duke Svyatoslav stopped it in time.

          Dobrynya Nikitich got his middle name several centuries after his life. And it’s strange, even I would say incredibly that the Christian father of his son called him a pagan name, and not pious, not according to the clergy.

          Ilya Muromets is also a very interesting character, read epics. Originally from the deaf pagan Murom lands (the population of Murom was baptized at the end of the 12th century, and the surrounding lands were generally much later than the Batyev campaign.) Shot from the bow on church crosses (like a true Christian, probably), hoisted the severed heads of enemies on a spear (pagan rite), He expressed his intentions to make a drinking cup from the skulls of enemies (a pagan ritual attribute), the Earth Mother of cheese (a pagan deity) gave him strength, and after death turned into stone (that is, merged with nature). Well, the name ... What cling to the name? For example, there was still such a thing in Russia then - Ilgost.
          1. azkolt
            azkolt 30 January 2014 23: 51
            +3
            Firstly, where did the information that Dobrynya got its middle name a century later? Secondly, you probably don’t know that even in the 17th century (I hope you will not deny that Orthodox Christians already inhabited Russia at that time) there are names like Istoma Pashkov, boyar Druzhina Andreich and many others who later became surnames or nicknames
            1. heathen
              heathen 31 January 2014 15: 16
              +1
              I cannot give you direct evidence. The conclusion that Dobrynya is actually not Nikitich, I draw from the fact that the epic heroes and their actions are much more archaic than the official doctrine is trying to suggest to us. And the ancient, as it were, not for half a millennium. This is convincingly proved in the works of V.Ya. Proppa and L.R. Prozorov. And the names of the heroes are very unstable. They change easily over time. So Leshko Popelyush became Alyosha Popovich, so the epic Prince Vladimir Vseslavich (in epics before the 19th century he has such a middle name) was renamed Svyatoslavievich by someone’s will, etc. etc.
          2. alexandr00070
            alexandr00070 31 January 2014 00: 55
            0
            Quote: heathen
            In my opinion, your Olga was something like the current liberals

            Olga was simply deprived of male attention, Igor fought, plus walked with concubines, plus there is a version that he was barren (by the way, he came to power late, by age, most of his childhood childhood, was at the beck and call of Oleg. When he began to rule he did the business was dead for that. Olga gave birth late, after 50 years, and even then (there is a version) with the help of a sorcerer. The old woman (in our retirement age) came to power almost for a long time, rushing around looking for mental peace, well, after it was handled by Greek priests (after all, she wanted to marry Emperor Konstantin VII Bagryanorodny, but as he saw his grandmother, he almost fainted), but it was he who baptized her in Constantinople, well, of course the wedding broke, it’s still taken out Olga’s brain, then her son was killed well etc. so the rules


            A very big Christian Ilya Muromets was.
            piece of Froyanov:

            So, according to the concepts of the people of Ancient Russia, the gods in external and internal wars provided active assistance and support to their adherents. Therefore, the belligerents, in order to suppress the active activity of the gods from the hostile camp, sought to destroy the altars and sanctuaries of the enemy, in the cases described above - churches and monasteries. The fact that these mores are not bookish, but coming from the depths of popular consciousness, can be judged by the Russian heroic epic.
            In epics about the clash of Ilya Muromets with Prince Vladimir there are also characteristic scenes. Ilya, in great anger, shoots with a bow, knocks down golden church crosses, knocks down poppies, pulls out bell tongues, and arranges a feast for the tavern’s goats for the riches thus obtained. The feast itself is fraught with danger, which threatens Vladimir, because on it Ilya discovers the intention to remove the prince. It is noteworthy in this regard that, shooting at churches and princely chambers, Ilya not only extracts gold for the purpose of making a feast, but also breaks down those parts of religious buildings and princely chambers, the destruction of which in magical representations means the death of a church church or house
            http://www.uznai-pravdu.ru/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=53
          3. abrakadabre
            abrakadabre 31 January 2014 11: 00
            +2
            Where did all the facts you recounted come from? Let’s get the links? At least one time. There will be no links, we will minus.
            1. heathen
              heathen 31 January 2014 14: 59
              +1
              Why is this lordly "at least once"? when I didn't give you a link to what I say? I didn’t give you quotes about the hard sky?

              Are you interested in what link?
              On epics? You are welcome!
              http://feb-web.ru/feb/byliny/default.asp
              Or give you specific quotes? Yes to health!
              http://feb-web.ru/feb/byliny/texts/imu/imu-230-.htm
              Quote: "Ilya Muromets in a quarrel with Vladimir // Ilya Muromets. - M .; L .: Publishing house of the USSR Academy of Sciences, 1958. - pp. 230-234."
              Ilya went out to the Kiev city
              And in the degrees of Kiev, he began to lord
              And walk on Mother God’s churches.
              On churches, he broke all the crosses,
              He gilded all the shots.


              http://feb-web.ru/feb/byliny/texts/imu/imu-1772.htm
              Quote: "[Ilya Muromets at the heroic outpost
              // Ilya Muromets. - M .; L .: Publishing house of the Academy of Sciences of the USSR, 1958. - S. 177-183. "] Ilyukha's lack of time to ask a lot, -
              Soon he whispered white breasts,
              Soon caught his eyes clear
              On the shoulders cut off the riotous head
              Stuck on a spear on damask,
              205 Drove to the heroic outpost.


              http://feb-web.ru/feb/byliny/texts/bl1/bl1-367-.htm
              Quote: "Ilya Muromets and Sokolnik: [Epic
              No. 69. 2001 "]" You can't cook a beer boiler without me -
              I will bring you the head of Totar! ”


              On the mission of Bishop Adalbert? This is not a secret behind seven seals.
              http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%90%D0%B4%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%B1%D0%B5%D1%80%D1
              %82_%D0%9C%D0%B0%D0%B3%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%B1%D1%83%D1%80%D0%B3%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%
              B9
          4. Salamander
            Salamander 1 February 2014 09: 52
            0
            Quote: heathen
            Dobrynya Nikitich got his middle name several centuries after his life. And it’s strange, even I would say incredibly that the Christian father of his son called him a pagan name, and not pious, not according to the clergy.


            If anyone did not know, many Russians of that time had 2 names: one - Christian, given at baptism, the second - his own, by which he was usually called. Prince Vladimir Monomakh had the Christian name Basil, for example.
            1. heathen
              heathen 1 February 2014 22: 29
              0
              What time did the Russians have?
              Epic? This, as I said, is several hundred years earlier than Baptism.
              After the 10th century, a Russian could have 2 names only in one case - when he was baptized at an already mature age, passing from paganism to Christianity. But in this case, one name was replaced by another, officially they were not worn at the same time.
              Well, princes are a separate story. The Rurikovich had several generic names of pagan origin that did not go outside the family, which were used until the Tatar-Mongol invasion. This was done by virtue of the conservative dynastic tradition to give the princes legitimacy in the eyes of the people, in those days even more pagan. So the use by princes of such names was due to political necessity ...
    3. heathen
      heathen 30 January 2014 19: 44
      +1
      Because Orthodoxy assumes that a person should voluntarily come to the temple and it is not a matter of driving him there with rods (albeit ideological)

      Uh-huh. And this little article, in your opinion, is not an "ideological rod"? Oh well...
      1. alicante11
        alicante11 31 January 2014 02: 17
        +1
        What kind of voluntariness? When it comes to money? More parishioners - more money. It’s like advertising. We are not asked if it is worth tearing your favorite movie on TV with advertising. And just put the rollers and that's it. The more people come to the temple, the more likely it is that a party of officials and moneybags will begin there. Who wants to PR. And at the same time lay out the grandmother. After all, they tried to introduce God's law in schools. Well at least it didn’t.
        1. The comment was deleted.
  • Setrac
    Setrac 28 January 2014 17: 50
    +6
    Quote: atalef
    D.u.

    I see everything.
    Carry out an investigative experiment. Take the crap shit and drop it. You will understand the simple truth - hit or not, this is a question, but he was smeared in shit.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • RUSS
    RUSS 28 January 2014 18: 04
    0
    I read comments and begin to approve of the methods of the Inquisition to combat heresy and paganism !!!!
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  • Humpty
    Humpty 28 January 2014 18: 13
    0
    Where faith begins, reason ends. When I was about 6 years old, my Orthodox grandmother taught me how to appease poisonous snakes living in a house so that they would not sting (they really lived with everyone in that village). We are Christians and it’s good that a millennium of Russian Christianity didn’t corrode the soul, maybe it enriched, but did not change the worldview.
    1. CreepyUknow
      CreepyUknow 28 January 2014 20: 49
      -1
      It’s a pity that you call your grandmother a Christian. Judging by your words, she had nothing to do with him.
      1. Humpty
        Humpty 28 January 2014 22: 16
        +1
        Quote: CreepyUknow
        It’s a pity that you call your grandmother a Christian. Judging by your words, she had nothing to do with him.


        I know one thing for sure, it's not for you to judge.
    2. anarh
      anarh 29 January 2014 04: 35
      +1
      Quote: Humpty
      My Orthodox grandmother when I was 6 years old taught how to appease poisonous snakes living in a house so that they would not sting (they really lived with everyone in that village)


      We also have a lot of vipers at the dachas.
      No one pleases them, but they do not sting anyone (if they had stung, the whole district would have known the next day).
      And everything is simple - no need to step on the snake and drive it into a corner.
      1. Humpty
        Humpty 29 January 2014 07: 50
        0
        That's right, they do not need to interfere with life and the snakes are not touched. According to a strange belief, they sometimes put a plate of milk for them, although I do not think that snakes drink it.
        1. nerd.su
          nerd.su 29 January 2014 13: 30
          0
          Quote: Humpty
          My Orthodox grandmother when I was 6 years old taught how to appease poisonous snakes living in a house so that they would not sting (they really lived with everyone in that village)

          It’s a strange village. Snakes live with everyone. It turns out that not a single cat in the village? Creepy ...

          Quote: anarh
          We also have a lot of vipers at the dachas.

          And summer residents? smile

          Quote: Humpty
          That's right, they don’t need to interfere with life and the snakes are not touched

          Humanist you, however.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Ram chandra
    Ram chandra 28 January 2014 18: 49
    -1
    Religion has no place in the 21st century. Turn on YOUR brains already, finally. Stop believing books about spidermen. MAN is responsible for his own destiny. And there is no elder brother in the world who will wipe your ass, if that. And even if there is (!) Why did you surrender to him ?! And why did he surrender to you ?! Afraid of your miserable lives? So it turns out that your faith is only self-interest - the desire to profit.
    1. Salamander
      Salamander 28 January 2014 20: 08
      +1
      Quote: Ram Chandra
      Afraid of your miserable lives? So it turns out that your faith is only self-interest - the desire to profit.


      Interest Ask! Aren't you afraid for your "pitiless" life? In addition, religion now is everything that science more or less cannot explain. People have to believe in something (at least in the fact that there is no God - this is also a religion), otherwise they will not be people, but robots ...
      1. Setrac
        Setrac 28 January 2014 20: 10
        -1
        Quote: Salamander
        In addition, religion now is all that science cannot more or less explain.

        Science cannot prove the existence or absence of God, religion is easily explained, someone does not want to understand.
      2. The comment was deleted.
        1. Tatanka Yotanka
          Tatanka Yotanka 28 January 2014 23: 06
          0
          Quote: Ram Chandra
          It only means believing in one’s own strength

          forces are not endless and as they lose their age, faith in oneself disappears
          Quote: Ram Chandra
          Copernicus is easy to burn

          Copernicus was a believer and the Jesuits burned him, you will not argue that they are God's people
          Quote: Ram Chandra
          exploring the true mechanisms of the universe is harder

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uH6gyBP7vN0
          Quote: Ram Chandra
          It’s easy to explain everything to God, to say that the earth is flat.

          “On the globe” (Ezra 3, chapter 11, verse 32), God “hung the earth on nothing” (Job, 26: 7), the theory of the plane came from the east
          Quote: Ram Chandra
          that stealing or killing is bad - it’s some kind of insane object, and not the pinnacle of evolution.

          there is love and conscience, will you say that these are small-scale objects in a person?
          Quote: Ram Chandra
          master of his fate and the fate of the planet.

          “You can’t make a single hair white or black” (Matthew 5:36). In addition, there is a case in the form of a brick on the head or some kind of catastrophe, explain to them about the master of fate
          and the funny thing is that atheists have not presented any scientific evidence of their theory
          1. Ram chandra
            Ram chandra 29 January 2014 00: 03
            -3
            small

            and the funny thing is that atheists have not presented any scientific evidence of their theory

            O_O
          2. 11111mail.ru
            11111mail.ru 29 January 2014 18: 42
            +1
            Quote: Tatanka Yotanka
            Quote: Ram Chandra
            Copernicus is easy to burn
            Copernicus was a believer and the Jesuits burned him, you will not argue that they are God's people

            Have you made a statement about the burning of Nikolai Kopenik? Note:
            http://audiorazgovornik.ru/pop-nauka/1284--copernicus-unearthed-
            In 2004-2005, the world learned that in the cathedral of the Polish town of Frombork they were looking for the grave of Nikolai Copernicus. And in 2006 it was reported that his grave was found with a probability of 97%. The decisive argument was the forensic reconstruction of the face from the skull found and its comparison with the portrait of Nikolai Copernicus from a museum in the city of Torun.
            1. abrakadabre
              abrakadabre 30 January 2014 09: 44
              +1
              Copernicus died on May 24, 1543 at the age of 70, Frombork. Presumably from a stroke.
              Your opponent unknowingly confused Copernicus with Giordano Bruno (most likely) or with someone else. Well, the reasons for this ignorance ... No comment.
    2. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 28 January 2014 20: 44
      +7
      Quote: Ram Chandra
      MAN is responsible for his own destiny.

      And he is also responsible for the fate of his family. hi
      1. Ram chandra
        Ram chandra 28 January 2014 20: 50
        +1
        I agree. We - the Kazakhs - have a bunch of pre-Islamic traditions left. For example, in battle - we do not scream as Muslims - ALLAH BABAH. And we shout Aruah - which means a call to the ancestors. There are a lot of traditions that my compatriots do not even think about - these are the Shelpeis, May Kui, Kysu Kysu and others.
        1. abrakadabre
          abrakadabre 30 January 2014 09: 58
          0
          For example, in battle - we do not scream as Muslims - ALLAH BABAH. And we shout Aruah - which means a call to the ancestors.

          It seems that this uranium has been replaced for a long time (they say almost from the XNUMXth century) with ALASH uranium. Or isn’t it?
    3. antinon
      antinon 28 January 2014 22: 01
      +1
      It's not about religion, it's about Faith.
  • Luzhichanin
    Luzhichanin 28 January 2014 19: 10
    0
    Quote: Vladimir Nemychenkov
    kind of chosen
    as if the chosen clan - was Jewish ... something the author confused
    1. Rebus
      Rebus 28 January 2014 19: 24
      +2
      Quote: Luzhichanin
      as if the chosen clan - was Jewish ... something the author confused

      Not confused, these are the words of the Apostle Peter about the Church and Christians
      9 But you are the chosen race, the royal priesthood, the holy people, people taken as an inheritance, in order to proclaim the perfection of He who called you from darkness into His wonderful light;
      10 once not a people, but now a people of God; once not pardoned, but now pardoned.
      1 Pet. 2: 9,10
  • tomket
    tomket 28 January 2014 19: 11
    +2
    There is an interesting sermon of the 12 century, in which the Father explains the flock who is Stribog, the flock does not understand him, and then he gives an analogy to them from the ancient Greek pantheon. That is, already in the 12 century, people forgot who Stribog and other Peruns are, so I agree with the pagan author cults of the Slavs are lost completely.
    1. rus9875
      rus9875 28 January 2014 22: 03
      +3
      indicate the primary source - where is this preaching of a certain "priest" of the 12th century?
    2. aviator65
      aviator65 28 January 2014 22: 29
      +1
      Fine! It appears already in the XII century. the people forgot who Stribog is, and about the ancient Greek pantheon he understands everything. You do not accidentally confuse a 12th-century sermon (and who outlined it?) With a history lesson in high school grade 5?
      1. tomket
        tomket 29 January 2014 18: 07
        -2
        I do not confuse, the Greek pantheon of gods, unlike the Slavic one, was widely reprinted in various books.
        1. heathen
          heathen 4 February 2014 14: 13
          0
          The Greek pantheon of gods has been widely reprinted since the Renaissance. And that is not in Russia, but in Europe. And from 3-4 centuries until the end of the 15th century commercials for such a "reprint" could be shocked from the church for the most not indulge.
    3. heathen
      heathen 4 February 2014 14: 04
      0
      Interestingly, for whom, up to the 15th century, numerous were written (and carefully written to the 17th century) teachings against paganism ("The word of a certain Christian lover and zealot of the faith", "The word about how the first trash existing tongues bowed by an idol", "The word of Gregory the Theologian about what trash existing tongues bowed by an idol", "The word of John Chrysostom about Christianity", "The Word of the Holy Father what is the life of Christianity ")?
      Who, then, in the Stoglava Cathedral in 1551 was forbidden to conduct pagan rites?
      Why, until the 18th century, questions such as: "did you go to the wise men", "did you follow their instructions", etc., were necessarily present at confession?
  • igor-pchelkin
    igor-pchelkin 28 January 2014 19: 12
    +4
    There was no mate, insults too, threats and calls to overthrow Putin - all the more. Why did they delete my comment? Do we have a mouth shut for everyone who at least slightly fits into the generally accepted? Jesus came to the Jews! What do we have to do with it ???
    1. CreepyUknow
      CreepyUknow 28 January 2014 20: 50
      0
      Read the gospel and only then say to whom He came.
    2. siberalt
      siberalt 29 January 2014 05: 17
      +1
      Then there were not Jews, but Jews. Jews appeared only at the end of the 19th century.
    3. siberalt
      siberalt 29 January 2014 05: 17
      +1
      Then there were not Jews, but Jews. Jews appeared only at the end of the 19th century.
    4. Ram chandra
      Ram chandra 29 January 2014 10: 35
      0
      My comments were also deleted - I didn’t call anyone to anything there, just explained that atheists are not bad. This calls into question being on this site.
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. anarh
      anarh 29 January 2014 04: 49
      0
      Quote: igor-pchelkin
      Oh, I get it. I have truly offended the holy feelings of believers! But what about my insulted feelings from the pedophilia of the "holy fathers"? Let's forbid the Pushkin Balda!

      Your truth is a garbage can, to which it is disgusting to touch, and you fall by mouth.
      And you unjustifiably equate yourself with Pushkin.
      1. Penzuck
        Penzuck 29 January 2014 14: 22
        0
        I agree with you, Pushkin listened to Arina Rodionovna and put everything on poetry. In the original, "The Tale of the Merchant and His Worker Balda", Pop was then added to the council. And the tale of Tsar Saltan - when did the first tsar appear in our country, and Ruslan and Lyulmila? and other works, in them there is not a hint of religion, only mythical sorcerers, priests, etc. And then immediately ABOUT POPE. strange however.

        Read the first version of Eugene Onegin, you will understand everything.
        1. heathen
          heathen 4 February 2014 14: 22
          0
          False facts. The tale of "the merchant and his worker Balda" is a rendition of Pushkin's fairy tale by Zhukovsky, made exclusively for publication. Otherwise, the censorship would not allow. And it was the priest who figured in Pushkin's manuscript. And the basis of the tale, by the way, is folk.
  • Corsair5912
    Corsair5912 28 January 2014 19: 41
    +8
    Looking at the past of Russia with an unbiased look, we can say with confidence that without the Russian Orthodox Church there would be no great and powerful Russia. And if you look into our present and future, it becomes just as obvious that without the Church it will not exist. If Russia does not feel the same faith, it will disintegrate, and enemies will mock at its remains.

    A statement has nothing to do with truth.
    After the baptism in Russia, a civil war broke out, lasting 100 years, a huge strong state broke up into 250 small uneven principalities, and 1 / 3 cities were burned. Written Slavic monuments were irreversibly lost and the carriers of oral traditions, songs and knowledge, storytellers, buffoons, and magicians were destroyed.
    Russia returned to the borders of the Principality of the Principality of the Pagan Prince Svyatoslav Igorevich the Brave, the victor of Khazaria, only after 700 years, at the cost of millions of victims. And in return, Russia received spies of the Greek priests, hostile to Byzantium, and lost access to the Black Sea.
    1. anarh
      anarh 29 January 2014 05: 03
      +1
      Quote: Corsair5912
      And in return, Russia received spies of the Greek priests, hostile to Byzantium, and lost access to the Black Sea.

      And she gained the Greatest and Silent Empire of the World from the White Sea to the Black, and from the Baltic Sea to the Pacific Ocean.
      And without the permission of Catherine, not a single gun in Europe could burn out.

      Everyone knows about what I wrote.

      And who knows about your tales besides the Washington fabulist and visitors to the sites funded by them?
      1. alicante11
        alicante11 29 January 2014 07: 58
        -1
        And if it had not "found" the Quietest, it would have found the "Great", from the Atlantic to Canada.
      2. Setrac
        Setrac 29 January 2014 11: 49
        0
        Quote: anarh
        And without the permission of Catherine, not a single gun in Europe could burn out.

        Maybe in Europe she couldn’t, and in Asia she could very well have more than one gun to fire, later this will be called the Pugachev uprising.
      3. heathen
        heathen 4 February 2014 14: 29
        0
        It’s hard, perhaps, to refute the facts set forth in chronicles and other sources? It’s much easier to call it a lie and remember about the machinations of the State Department.
    2. Flame
      Flame 4 February 2014 14: 32
      +1
      What nonsense are you talking about, dear, what kind of civil war? If there was a civil war on the basis of religion, there would be only two parties — Orthodox and pagans, and not 250 principalities!
  • Motors1991
    Motors1991 28 January 2014 19: 42
    +2
    If you read the Gospel carefully, you can make sure that all the acts of Jesus Christ are aimed at enlightening the Jews, and the fact that he sent the apostles to various parts of the world was invented later by the apostles themselves.The author did not indicate the most important, in my opinion, reason for the spread of Christianity-- this is a union of peoples, i.e. in practice it looks like this: One God, One King, One People. Religion has allowed to unite different tribes and peoples under one scepter. We still sympathize with the Greeks, one religion with us and quite carefully. to say that we are hostile to representatives of other beliefs. I will add that in Soviet times it was the idea of ​​a Bright Future that made it possible to unite Christians, Muslims, Buddhists as soon as it collapsed, friction began on a religious basis, and then on a national basis.
    1. Yuri Sev Caucasus
      Yuri Sev Caucasus 28 January 2014 21: 11
      -1
      There is one most curious moment in the article that misleads more than one generation of both believers and their opponents! Christ was not crucified on the cross; he was hanged on a pole (stavros) in Greek is a pillar! Indeed, in those days, criminals and vanquished were hung on poles along the roads of criminals. Only in the 4th century began to mention crucifixion on the cross, i.e. altered in a different way. As, in principle, the rest of the story is written by the winners!
      1. azkolt
        azkolt 28 January 2014 22: 45
        +3
        Stavros, dear, this is a cross too! If He were hung on a pole, then as above his head there was a plaque with the inscription "King of the Jews ...", then it should be above his hands. And deal with the Greek concepts of wood and cross too!
    2. anarh
      anarh 29 January 2014 05: 16
      0
      Quote: Motors1991
      I would add that in Soviet times it was the idea of ​​a Bright Future that made it possible to unite Christians, Muslims, Buddhists into one whole, as soon as it collapsed, friction began on a religious basis, and then on a national basis.

      For a long time she allowed it?
      For seventy years.
      And how long before this did the Russian Empire exist on even larger territories?
      It did not just exist, but grew in these territories.
      Comparison is clearly not in favor of your thesis.
      1. alicante11
        alicante11 29 January 2014 07: 59
        0
        Historical processes are accelerating :).
      2. heathen
        heathen 4 February 2014 14: 32
        0
        Often grew by people fleeing from this empire, and then by exiles.
  • heathen
    heathen 28 January 2014 20: 03
    +6
    What can I say? The person who wrote this may understand Christianity, But he knows about paganism, as well as about paganism, I will say directly, with a gulkin nose. The names of the gods, that there were some sacrifices, a couple of messages from the Tale of Bygone Years, written (again) by a monk, and that’s all.
    And all would be fine, but only he is trying to teach the minds of other fellow citizens, trying to impose his own, very biased opinion on this issue.

    I was going to write a comment (I killed it for half a day), in an attempt to show what exactly of what was said is a lie, that a distortion of facts, and that a policy of double standards (both one and the other, the third is enough here), but I got a short article. And then I thought that if you put it on the site, another srach will begin. And there is no desire for it.
    But I want to quote only one last paragraph:
    "With this answer, I am not calling on anyone to cast aside their delusions and heresies and join the ranks of the pagans in united ranks. Do not bring that gods. Remain yourself and honestly believe in what seems right to you. You just ... do not deprive others of the right to do that. the same. "
    1. Hamul
      Hamul 28 January 2014 20: 30
      +5
      Dear - The Tale of Bygone Years is a combination of three surviving chronicles: Ipatiev, Lavrentiev, Kiev-Pechersk annals.
      Moreover, it is proved by all scientists - the first three sheets, which describe the calling of the Varangians to Russia - a fake of Schleitzer and his team

      For those who read Orthodox stories - find the Orthodox alphabet - ask the priests a question - what is Prav and Nav? find the so-called Retrina runes, find the so-called Vlesov book (this is of course a skillful fake, but it is interesting that in one well-known tablet there are at least three forms of writing: Boyanovitsa, Retrinsky, Starotserkovnaya).

      Threat. By the way, all modern letters of the alphabet have been known for a very long time - they just had a slightly different form of spelling - but genetic memory will easily tell you how to read)
      1. heathen
        heathen 29 January 2014 11: 55
        +1
        Quote: Hamul
        Dear - The Tale of Bygone Years is a combination of three surviving chronicles: Ipatiev, Lavrentiev, Kiev-Pechersk annals.

        This is already particular. I don’t see any reason here to go deep into them.

        Quote: Hamul
        Moreover, it is proved by all scientists - the first three sheets, which describe the calling of the Varangians to Russia - a fake of Schleitzer and his team

        What kind of scientists can be more specific?
        I remember the same Lomonosov defended the version that Rurik and his brothers were Slavs from Pomerania (originally Slavic lands in the southern Baltic). The historian Lev Prozorov defines his homeland more precisely - the capital of the bodrician city of Rerik (now Mecklenburg).
        And I tend to agree with them.

        Quote: Hamul
        For those who read Orthodox stories - find the Orthodox alphabet - ask the priests a question - what is Prav and Nav?

        I do not doubt the idea of ​​a threefold world, but the very word "Rule" seems to me a remake. In any case, I have not found it in any source yet. This does not mean that it cannot be used in everyday life, I myself use it, but you need to clearly understand that referring to it as something ancient is groundless.

        Quote: Hamul
        Threat. By the way, all modern letters of the alphabet have been known for a very long time - they just had a slightly different form of spelling - but genetic memory will easily tell you how to read)

        Maybe. The Chernorizets Brave noted that the Slavs write with traits and cuts. This description is more likely to indicate the runes. Although the Novgorod birch bark letters are also convincing evidence.
    2. Penzuck
      Penzuck 29 January 2014 14: 42
      -1
      Do not blame their friend, there is one book "Encyclopedia of Slavic Legends, Myths and Legends": There, in alphabetical order, all the demons are painted: And Stribog and Dazhdbog and Mokosh and banniki, brownies, courtyards, barnmen, ghouls, Belobog and Chernobog, (Interesting to me The first god Rod is the creator, the creator - there were no other gods), Veles, Viy, the magi, witches, (as well as the non-local god Peruncas), Mara, Yarilo, kikimora, goblin, water, Koschey-spider, Baba Yaga (cannibal ), beregini, mermaids (not to be confused with Disney's), and Werewolves, twins, chicken god, carnival. FFUH. All that I remembered, now the question is:

      What were the real gods of the 1ruses of the 2 Slavs finally the 3 Slavs? And there are also Mordovian gods, about which even less is known.
      1. heathen
        heathen 3 February 2014 13: 39
        +1
        Demons? Well, to whom demons, and to whom and gods.

        Bake it Perun non-native? In all the Slavic lands they find temples for him - from the Czechs (as far as I know, maybe even further west) to the Don. About the cult of the Thunderer among the Slavs, sources report back in the 4th century (Procopius of Kessaria). The etymology of his name is very easily derived from Old Slavic - striking, striking. And toponymy with his name on our lands is ubiquitous. In general, there are plenty of facts that Perun is the god of the Slavs.

        The periodization of the beliefs of the Slavs was well written by B.A. Rybakov in "Paganism of the Ancient Slavs". There it is at the very beginning of the book.

        Well, Mordovians are not Slavs, but Finno-Ugric peoples. They have their own gods.
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. Lyubteh
      Lyubteh 28 January 2014 20: 38
      -2
      In the Russian language Easter has other roots and comes from the word PASCHET and the eggs are beaten in honor of the victory of Dazhdbog over the cliffs.
    2. Flooding
      Flooding 28 January 2014 21: 21
      -4
      Quote: Hamul
      How it was possible in Novgorod to write / read everything from young to old

      Did archaeologists find birch bark alphabet and school notebooks?
      Quote: Hamul
      Mass extermination of pagans who did not want to obey

      Verbatim, which incidentally is not surprising. Great connoisseurs of antiquity already wrote about tens of millions of ruined pagans. But for some reason you must definitely believe in the words, and nothing else.
      Quote: Hamul
      It is interesting, but who knows that the Slavs lived from the shores of the Ruhr and the Rhine to the most eastern borders?

      Heard, heard. And what does the ROC deny this fact?
      Quote: Hamul
      by the way about Pushkin - name at least one work of the Great poet where he praised Christianity

      At first, clever people wrote that Pushkin was not Orthodox. Then, when they poked their nose several times, they began to dodge "show me where he praised Christianity"
      Quote: Hamul
      the Russian alphabet and words continue to be destroyed - only 5% of people think about the meanings of words

      Dear, do you personally read in Old Slavonic? Do you mean many old words? But did not the idea occur to you that it was not Orthodoxy at all? After all, the Orthodox people have been preserving the richness of the language for centuries. Maybe you should look for more prosaic reasons? For example, first read about the reform of Russian spelling in 1918.
      Quote: Hamul
      Shrovetide is now a Christian holiday

      No one ever hid the pagan roots of Shrovetide. Just like no one gave the right to the pagans to appropriate pancake authorship.
      1. Hamul
        Hamul 29 January 2014 09: 23
        +2
        Quote: Flood
        Did archaeologists find birch bark alphabet and school notebooks?

        Go to Novgorod museums - there are a lot of interesting things. Of course, the ABCs were not found, but the literacy level was still what.
        Quote: Flood
        No one ever hid the pagan roots of Shrovetide. Just like no one gave the right to the pagans to appropriate pancake authorship.
        In our Stavropol Territory, priests in interviews with television channels say the opposite. And where does the pancake - supposedly a symbol of the sun? The essence of Shrovetide is different.
        Quote: Flood
        Dear, do you personally read in Old Slavonic? Do you mean many old words? But did not the idea occur to you that it was not Orthodoxy at all? After all, the Orthodox people have been preserving the richness of the language for centuries. Maybe you should look for more prosaic reasons? For example, first read about the reform of Russian spelling in 1918.
        I, dear, some time ago studied the history of the Slavs, and was preparing for an externship - on the topic "Slavs in the North Caucasus in the 9th century AD". An avidity to combine a lot and read everything, even Nosovsky and Fomenko. The bottom line is that there is no history of Russia and the Slavs, there is only a bunch of corrections to the history to please the emperors. Primary sources older than 14-16 centuries. simply not - everything is destroyed. We are probably one of the few nations that does not know its history. We are forced to dispute with the Germans and call ourselves Slavophiles - about the vocation of the Varangians on the basis not of documents, but of the consequences for Russian culture / names of household items / rivers / lakes, etc., and when the Germans / Normanists run out of arguments, they say - it cannot be, because it cannot be. I wonder why Klyuchevsky, Soloviev, Karamzin are supposedly historians, while Lomonosov is not? Why are they not teaching history according to Lomonosov in schools? But they are all contemporaries - the conclusion is not one of the Normanists, and it was profitable for the authorities to use the Norman version.
        As for the words, a lot is hidden in ordinary words that are found everywhere, and the Old Church language is like Latin.
        1. Flooding
          Flooding 29 January 2014 12: 04
          +1
          Quote: Hamul
          Go to Novgorod museums - there are a lot of interesting things. Of course, the ABCs were not found, but the literacy level was still what.

          Does this give you the right to talk about universal literacy? Yes and where?
          In Novgorod alone?
          Quote: Hamul
          In our Stavropol Territory, priests in interviews with television channels say the opposite.

          Again unfounded. I can write a lot about the neopagan stupidity. And, obviously, I’ll raise from correspondence. Can you find confirmation in your own words?
          Quote: Hamul
          And where does the pancake - like a symbol of the sun? The essence of Shrovetide is different.

          Probably, pancakes despite the fact that in Orthodox Russia, Shrovetide lost its pagan fetishes, and the remaining symbols acquired a slightly different meaning, more harmonious for the Orthodox.
          Quote: Hamul
          Interesting - why Klyuchevsky, Solovyov, Karamzin are supposedly historians, but are there no Lomonosov?

          I am very respectful to Lomonosov as a historian. But what does this have to do with the wave of pagan indignation that you are turning to Orthodoxy?
          Quote: Hamul
          As for the words, a lot is hidden in ordinary words that are found everywhere, and the Old Church language is like Latin.

          I don’t know any old church language. I wrote about Old Slavonic. And try not to avoid uncomfortable questions. So it will be more useful for you and for our dispute.
          1. abrakadabre
            abrakadabre 29 January 2014 12: 30
            0
            And try not to avoid uncomfortable questions. So it will be more useful for you and for our dispute.
            Useless. You will not be heard. More precisely, they will ignore it. For education will not allow you to understand your arguments.
            Alas.
            1. Hamul
              Hamul 29 January 2014 16: 44
              +1
              I heard, but there is no point in swearing and arguing. Everyone has their own opinion. Each relies on different books and on their own judgments + speculation - these are people. If only truth were born in disputes ...... the world would be cleaner, but we have what we have.

              Threat. I would love to sit over a glass of tea and discuss these issues with you and Navodlom and Trapperom 7 (thanks for the verse - I did not know about it).
      2. Trapperxnumx
        Trapperxnumx 29 January 2014 13: 16
        +1
        Quote: Hamul
        by the way about Pushkin - name at least one work of the Great poet where he praised Christianity


        The fathers of the hermits and wives are innocent,
        To fly away in the field
        To strengthen it in the midst of valley storms and battles,
        They composed many divine prayers;
        But not one of them touches me,
        Like the one the priest repeats
        In the sad days of Lent;
        More and more often she comes to me
        And strengthens the fallen by an unknown force:
        Lord of my days! The spirit of idleness is dull
        Ancestor, snakes hidden this,
        And do not give idle words to my soul.
        But let me see my transgressions, oh God
        My brother will not accept judgment from me,
        And the spirit of humility, patience, love
        And chastity revive in my heart.

        November 1836, XNUMX
  • Lyubteh
    Lyubteh 28 January 2014 20: 13
    +3
    To begin with, the Russian Orthodox Church claims that before the advent of Cyril and mythody to Russia, the Slavs were ignorant and illiterate. But by the time two Greek monks came to Russia in Russia, there were already cities of the capital city of Kiev: Asgard of Iria, Asgard of Sagdia, Asgard of Sviotsky, and it turns out that illiterate and ignorant Slavs could build such magnificent cities.
    1. Flooding
      Flooding 28 January 2014 21: 07
      0
      Quote: Lyubteh
      To begin with, the Russian Orthodox Church claims that before coming to Russia, Cyril and mythody the Slavs were ignorant and illiterate

      Lyubteh, I was not too lazy to register to just emboss a few words on a favorite topic.
      But to make it so unfounded? No, wait for proof.
    2. heathen
      heathen 29 January 2014 12: 03
      +2
      Damn, I look, divorced, divorced - nowhere to spit. And everywhere they are trying to get their nonsense. I remember laughing very much at the tales of how Perun, in his spaceship, was chasing gray liquid trophies and shooting them from a blaster.
  • Quartermaster
    Quartermaster 28 January 2014 20: 18
    +3
    I believe in the Almighty Family - the One and Multiple-manifest God, the source of all things and those who bear, which is the Eternal Spring to all Gods.
    I know that the Universe is a Genus, and all the Gods of the same name are united in it.
    I believe in the trinity of being of the Reveal, Reveal and Navi, and that the Reign is true, and retold to the Fathers by our Forefathers.
    I know that the rule is with us, and Navi will not be afraid, because Navi has no power against us.
    I believe in unity with the Family Gods, for the Dazhbozhny grandchildren we are the favorites of the Gods. And the gods keep their right hand in our mountains.
    I know that life in the Great Family is eternal, and we must take care of the eternal,
    walking the path of ruling.
    I believe in the strength and wisdom of the Ancestors who are born among us, leading to good through our guides.
    I know that power is the unity of the Slavic Clans, and that we will become glorious,
    glorifying the Native Gods!
    Glory to the Family and to all Gods in it!
    1. anarh
      anarh 29 January 2014 05: 32
      0
      Already self-made prayers went into progress.
      Not new, babtists have been practicing this for a long time.
      Lightweight and fake.
      Frequent use of the word "genus" does not help.
  • Chukcha
    Chukcha 28 January 2014 20: 53
    +3
    Personally, I perceive the history of my country as it is. I cannot reject one iota, otherwise - spiritual collapse is inevitable. In our history (and not only ours) nothing can be divided into "good" or "bad" - everything is as it was. Only by relying on this position, you can understand all our continuity in time.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Flooding
    Flooding 28 January 2014 20: 57
    +3
    How funny and miserable you are, neopagans and others like them.
    Such nonsense can be read only in the comments on topics affecting Orthodoxy.
    Immediately flies locusts from all sides and begins to blaspheme in every way.
    Shit pops up unmeasured. But look for the truth in shit? Dismiss
    I could argue with each of you, but I know that this is in vain.
    This is something inexplicable to me when adults have seen life
    pour nonsense with peas.
    Quartermaster, do not disgrace. People, come to your senses.
    What you write to the mind is incomprehensible.
    Historians have been breaking spears for hundreds of years about the origin of Prince Vladimir,
    his mother Malushi and uncle Dobrynia. And then here you are, they write nonsense and do not frown,
    Mlyn historians ...
  • Mikhail m
    Mikhail m 28 January 2014 20: 59
    -3
    A long time ago such nonsense at the MILITARY REVIEW was not. Those missing, or what?
    1. Corsair5912
      Corsair5912 28 January 2014 21: 09
      +1
      Quote: Michael m
      A long time ago such nonsense at the MILITARY REVIEW was not. Those missing, or what?

      I was also surprised how the topic essentially prohibited by the rules of the forum got into VO?
      There can be no discussion without negative statements, and this is anti-religious propaganda.
  • Ivan_Ivanov
    Ivan_Ivanov 28 January 2014 21: 09
    +6