Military Review

Germany will discuss the fate of Ukraine only with the participation of Russia

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Germany will discuss the fate of Ukraine only with the participation of Russia



In November, when Ukraine’s foreign policy was not entirely clear, and Brussels advocated Kiev's peremptory involvement in European integration networks, the split occurred not only among the Ukrainian elite, but also among European politicians. No matter how Europe tried to appear monolithic, it did not work out a common opinion on the Ukrainian issue. The most opposing position for European integrators was Germany, which insisted on including Russia in the negotiation process.

How can such German maneuvers be explained? And why is Europe against?

Berlin wants to connect Moscow to the negotiation process

The split between Berlin and Brussels began when Viktor Yanukovych declared last November that the signing of an association agreement with the EU by Ukraine is possible only with the participation of Russia. A few days later, Vladimir Putin agreed that Russia could take part in resolving the problem, and European politicians did the exact opposite: they categorically refused any compromise solutions.

And only Germany, led by Angela Merkel, approached the question carefully: the Chancellor said that Berlin was ready to take into account the legitimate interests of Moscow. Angela Merkel tried to assure Vladimir Putin that the agreement between Ukraine and the European Union was not directed against Russia. Gernot Erler, Commissioner for German-Russian Relations, openly expressed the idea of ​​signing a trilateral agreement between Russia, Ukraine and the European Union. The Chancellor did not argue with this idea, although she did not insist on its implementation.

In Brussels, such actions of Germany were met with open hostility. José Manuel Barroso, chairman of the European Commission, said that the proposal of Gernot Erler is unacceptable, and the EU categorically refuses to conclude any tripartite agreements with Ukraine and Russia. According to European diplomats, if Russia gets a veto over Ukraine, then irreversible processes will begin in other Eastern Partnership countries, as they will lose their support from Brussels. Simply put, Europe is afraid of losing its satellites.

At the same time, the proposal to include Russia in the negotiation process is still in force. This was said last week by Vladimir Chizhov, the Russian ambassador to the EU. According to Chizhov, the upcoming 28 January summit of Russia and the European Union is great for discussing the Ukrainian problem. The diplomat proposes that Ukraine sign agreements with both the European and the Customs Union at the same time. Chizhov said that the Customs Union is not a competitor to the European Union, so Ukraine is able to maintain friendly relations with both Moscow and Brussels.

In addition to the Ukrainian problem, the summit will discuss issues of scientific and economic cooperation, as well as the prospects for introducing a visa-free regime between the European Union and Russia.

Fight for the Russian market

Germany took a compromise position not because Angela Merkel is an altruist. In fact, economic interests are hiding behind political interests: German corporations do not want to aggravate relations with Russia, because they want to continue cooperation with Russian oil and gas companies. And the Germans have enough competitors: the willingness to cooperate with Russian enterprises was expressed by corporations of France, Italy and some other European countries. The loss of Germany is uncritical for us: at any moment it can be replaced by someone more and more compliant.

Berlin is well aware of this. German industrialists interested in strengthening ties with Russia are opposed to the rash actions of the German Foreign Ministry. Any differences, whether they are related to Ukraine or any other country, can lead to a breakdown of agreements in the economic sphere, and, as a result, to oust Germany from the Russian market.

In turn, the competitors of Berlin are aware of his little weakness, and therefore they are pushing Germany to take radical action. If the European Union manages to embroil Berlin and Moscow, it will kill two birds with one stone: first, it will disrupt the negotiation process about Ukraine, and, secondly, it will kill German companies that cooperate with Russian oil industry workers.

This turn of events is beneficial for the United States: Washington is making every possible effort to weaken business ties between Russia and Europe. First of all, the States want to disrupt the supply of energy, "planting" the Europeans on the Middle East "oil needle".

The secret of the three headed serpent

Do not forget that Vitali Klitschko - one of the contenders for the presidency - is a German citizen. Accordingly, the German Foreign Ministry is more interested in it than anyone else. In Germany, Klitschko is considered to be a German boxer who represents the German people in the international arena, and they are even surprised: what does a German athlete do on the Kiev barricades? Is he a Ukrainian?

To have your henchman in Kiev is good for Germany. For the rest of the European countries, the Klitschko figure remains controversial: his coming to power would mean the domination of Berlin in Europe. The United States is also against the boxer, since if Ukraine were to fall into the German sphere of influence in Eastern Europe, a counterbalance to the pro-American Romania, Bulgaria, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia would appear. In general, Germany’s gain for Washington is a sore subject. Do not forget that the United States has not withdrawn its forces from the Federal Republic of Germany, and formally Germany is still under American occupation.

In this connection, there is no unity in the Western countries. That is why the opposition is “three-headed”: in contrast to the German boxer Klitschko, Western Europe and the United States are trying to nominate two other oppositionists, Oleg Tyagnibok and Yury Lutsenko, while the Americans are leaning in favor of the latter: after all, Yushchenko, a former pro-Westernist. Communication with Yuri established, the patient studied in detail from all sides. And the burden is odious, Poland will certainly come out against it, which until now has not come to terms with the pranks of the Ukrainian nationalists, Germany, which supports Klitschko, as well as many Western European states too worried about tolerance.

But back to the statements of Gernot Erler. Eskivoki of Germany testifies that German diplomacy would like to find such a compromise with Russia, when, on the one hand, German companies will cooperate with Russian oil industry workers, and on the other hand, German protégé Wladimir Klitschko will have a real chance of becoming president. Angela Merkel is ready to bargain for the right of a boxer to take part in the upcoming presidential election. Moreover, Germany is well aware that it will not be possible to impose a foreign president on Ukraine just like that, since Russia will oppose it, and therefore, in search of support, does not turn to Viktor Yanukovych, but to Vladimir Putin. It is not known how the guarantor will answer - this is the problem of Russian diplomacy.

At the same time, Berlin has an effective instrument of pressure on Russia, namely the position of Germany on the introduction of a visa-free regime. Perhaps in the upcoming talks, German diplomats will begin to be capricious, portraying concerns about the “security” of the European Union from migrants. But recall, Russia has a stronger trump card - economic cooperation with Germany, which undoubtedly does not want to lose its eastern partner.

Thus, the Ukrainian problem for Germany is more important than, say, France or the UK. The power of Berlin directly depends on who will rule Ukraine, and Berlin has serious disagreements on this issue not only with Russia, but also with the countries of the West. We could use this slack to resolve the situation in Ukraine, easing Western pressure on Kiev and removing some of its important participants from the game.
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  1. Canep
    Canep 27 January 2014 08: 38
    +44
    It seems that she was a couple of months late. If now Ukraine will join the EU, it will most likely be in parts. And the first to be knocked on the EU is pro-fascist and beggarly western Ukraine, let it be accepted, their ideology is quite close to Europe. I don’t see any prospects to save Ukraine as a whole state, the Maidan had to be dispersed in December and the SBU was involved for debriefing, even then there were attempts to overthrow the legally elected government. In two months of inaction, the rebels were able to organize and absorb Western grants. And now the rebellion is taking place in half of the regions.
    1. Letterksi
      Letterksi 27 January 2014 08: 49
      +8
      All that does not happen is all for the better. Maybe some part will get stuck in the throat of the EU like Transnistria
      1. tronin.maxim
        tronin.maxim 27 January 2014 09: 00
        +2
        Quote: LetterKsi
        All that does not happen is all for the better.

        Rather, for Americans, but not for us. Joining the EU or (God forbid) split Ukraine is not good.
        1. ele1285
          ele1285 27 January 2014 10: 21
          +10
          Quote: tronin.maxim
          God forbid, the split of Ukraine is not good.


          Why? Let the banderlogs prove to the Poles that they are geyropeytsy. Let the west of Ukraine goes to Uropa, may cease to multiply
        2. Letterksi
          Letterksi 27 January 2014 13: 11
          +2
          Joining the EU or (God forbid) split Ukraine is not good
          This is not good. But good or bad, you had to think for the past 24 years, and now it's too late.

          For example, is it good that Transnistria fell off Moldova in due time? I think it’s good, because the population of Transnistria would have thinned out if it had not defended its right to live separately from Moldova with their Euro-Romanian commanders. And much less blood was shed than could. How do you think Ukraine differs from Moldova in 1992? In my opinion is no different. Therefore, southeast to enter the EU together with the Galician death fellows like

          We must already wean ourselves from "if only there was no war." Because it is already underway and one must understand this and be adequate to the developing circumstances, otherwise ...
          1. vlad1
            vlad1 27 January 2014 22: 26
            +2
            if honestly there are differences, we do not have such a leader as in the Pre-Dniester. There is no one to follow the people, and it is very important that there is a leader, and with this we are completely displeased
            1. Letterksi
              Letterksi 28 January 2014 08: 53
              0
              Leaders will appear in the process ... look, you will find those who can claim leadership. I do not live in Ukraine, but I know that you have leaders. Mostly, do not bring your own leaders under the monastery. It seems that Ukraine was allowed to create popular militias? All leaders live among you. No need to seek a leader immediately universal scale. Limit yourself to protecting your city, your area, your home. As they did in Kyrgyzstan in 2010, maybe slowly unite all together who are not indifferent
            2. Letterksi
              Letterksi 28 January 2014 10: 24
              0
              PS
              The Sobol Cossack community organizes militias. So contact, ask what to do, even if you do not live in Sevastopol

              http://soboli.net/2014/01/zayavlenie-sevastopolskogo-koordinacionnogo-soveta/#mo
              Re-6631
        3. user
          user 27 January 2014 18: 06
          +1
          I think that the Ukrainians themselves have not yet understood the meaning of what is happening. And there is a division of the country by the hands of zapadentsev from Lviv and the western regions. For some reason, they decided that they would certainly immediately begin to live like Germany, or, at worst, France. The country as it is now is not needed not by Russia, nor the EU, nor the United States. Russia because it is remembered only during the discussion of gas prices. The EU as a potential ally of Russia. SSHA only as a sore point in the geopolitical game with Russia. If we talk about Poland, they believe that these are their lost territories. So Ukraine as a state exists so far as these parties or part of these parties have not found an acceptable option for themselves to develop events, well, of course, dividing its territory in its interests.
          Someone may not like this, but further developments will show.
      2. 222222
        222222 27 January 2014 11: 19
        +8
        Note on January 28, GDP will visit the EU and on the same day an extraordinary meeting of the Supreme Council of Ukraine will take place .. "On January 28, the Russian head of state will visit Brussels, where the 32nd Russia-European Union summit will take place.
        During the meeting, key issues of the bilateral agenda will be examined with emphasis on trade and economic cooperation, prospects for introducing a visa-free regime for short-term trips of citizens of Russia and the EU, cooperation in the energy sector, and intensification of negotiations on a new basic agreement. It is also planned to discuss ways to strengthen the strategic partnership between Russia and the EU, the possibility of interfacing Eurasian and European integration processes.
        It is expected that a number of pressing international issues will also be discussed, including Iran’s nuclear program, the situation in Syria, including the outcome of the Geneva-2 conference http://www.kremlin.ru/news/20105

        Naturally, both Europe and the Russian Federation will discuss the situation in Ukraine and further ways .. But, after the Nazi funeral march in Kiev, Europe probably wondered .. Yes, and Israel spoke out unequivocally ... Do they need it ???????
        1. Ptah
          Ptah 27 January 2014 11: 46
          +11
          Quote: 222222
          Yes, and Israel spoke out unequivocally ... Wono they need ???????

          Well then, everything ... Since Israel does not like it, then consider the end of the protest mood. Divisions of lawyers and dentists from Odessa will advance to the Maidan and disperse all the peaceful protesters ...
          Israel and the EU are brothers forever ... laughing
        2. Onyx
          Onyx 27 January 2014 13: 28
          +2
          Quote: 222222
          Note January 28, GDP will visit the EU and on the same day an extraordinary meeting of the Supreme Council of Ukraine

          It can also be noted that Yanukovych will wait for an answer from Yatsenyuk and Klichkomp about their appointment to posts in the government until Tuesday, that is, before Putin’s visit to Brussels
          1. edge
            edge 27 January 2014 13: 59
            +1
            no, well, it’s well done, to remove the soil from under your feet, and then hang out in the post of anyone .............
        3. Denis
          Denis 27 January 2014 15: 13
          0
          Quote: 222222
          Europe probably thought about it ... Yes, and Israel spoke out unequivocally ..
          Doubtful, very doubtful!
          than she thinks, she’s very leaky in the latest fashion
          It’s like, in menacing Estonia, pensions are paid to Nazi henchmen and marches are held every year, and those involved in the Holocaust more than the Wehrmacht-served
          At the opening of a hockey tournament in Latvia or Lithuania, a swastika was built on ice, having breached that this is a national (???) ornament
          So what?
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. nickname 1 and 2
        nickname 1 and 2 27 January 2014 12: 03
        +4
        Quote: LetterKsi
        All that does not happen is all for the better.


        But what’s the best? Yes, it became clear that in Ukraine there are NO big-headed! What a crazy boxer, that in the SBU that in the Ministry of Defense, and only about the Rada, and other dignitaries it’s not worth talking about!
        It seems - BUZ is where our neighbors, who were among our brothers, are much more happy!
        How else do you say. Would the people's squads go and quietly there among the maydanutyh on the "secret" on the butskali especially zealous, and that would be what you need.

        Do not need any FRONTS! Just mixing in the crowd, all the more masked, well, but zeal zealous.

        There is no other way to MEAN presumptuous except for a good TUMAK!

        And the boxer, by chance, once again freeze his head!
    2. Name
      Name 27 January 2014 08: 59
      +14
      Quote: Canep
      If now Ukraine will join the EU, it will most likely be piecemeal

      And in parts, Ukraine does not need a geyropa for nothing, why do they need the western part - to hang on their neck a large problem area with a slacker population who will wait for alms for their loyalty or run to Europe ... And the Americans in case of the collapse of Ukraine will lose influence in the Central and Eastern regions.
      1. olviko
        olviko 27 January 2014 09: 32
        +12
        "And in parts of Ukraine geyrope and for nothing do not need, why do they need the western part - to hang on their neck a large problem area with a population-idle"

        I agree . The EU has enough of its hungry, fascists and separatists, but at least some of them - no lure, with concepts about the law and order. And then a whole crowd of wild Bandera with Molotov cocktails, put the whole of Europe on the ears.
        1. SHOCK.
          SHOCK. 27 January 2014 10: 26
          +9
          "And here is a whole crowd of wild Bandera with Molotov cocktails, they will put the whole of Europe on their ears."
          Well said, totally agree.
        2. edge
          edge 27 January 2014 14: 03
          0
          stimulate them and direct them, drang nah western ..... let them feel for themselves all the charm of the Russian rebellion, meaningless and merciless
      2. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 27 January 2014 10: 25
        +15
        Quote: name
        And in parts, Ukraine does not need a geyrop for nothing, why do they need the western part

        But the western part is sleeping and sees the Germans come and stand their way laughing
        1. Denis
          Denis 27 January 2014 10: 33
          +7
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Germans and stand their way
          Do the Germans know that?
          The Baltic states how they live. In Estonia they offer to come together, many apartments in the houses are empty and hard to keep on balance. From a good life, the gastrikas went to the geyropa
        2. olviko
          olviko 27 January 2014 11: 50
          +1
          "But the western part sleeps and sees how the Germans come and cost them roads."

          The Greeks and Romanians also hoped ...
        3. datur
          datur 27 January 2014 20: 42
          0
          [quote = Alexander romanov] [quote = Imenyak] And in parts Ukraine does not need a geyrop for nothing, why do they need the western part --- belay
          But the western part is sleeping and sees how the Germans come and stand their way: wassat for sure, and everyone on a Mercedes Ali on a beho gives !!!! tongue wink
        4. datur
          datur 27 January 2014 20: 42
          0
          [quote = Alexander romanov] [quote = Imenyak] And in parts Ukraine does not need a geyrop for nothing, why do they need the western part --- belay
          But the western part is sleeping and sees how the Germans come and stand their way: wassat for sure, and everyone on a Mercedes Ali on a beho gives !!!! tongue wink
      3. AVV
        AVV 27 January 2014 12: 08
        +1
        Don’t give in to Europe, they are falling apart already !!! Scotland, Celesia, the Basques, everyone does not want to be dependent on anyone, and they are ready to split Europe !!! And America, only this is necessary, it’s easier to manage parts, and Ukraine wants to involve in the European Union and share !!!
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. LaGlobal
      LaGlobal 27 January 2014 09: 28
      +3
      Quote: Canep
      the first in the EU to knock pro-fascist and beggarly western Ukraine


      - I would not be in your place so expressed about the fraternal people! There are not all rogues and pro-Westerners, as you put it. Or I fall under your criterion for evaluating the Western Ukrainian people, as I myself was born in Ivano-Frankivsk, and lived there for 17 years, and graduated from RUSSIAN SCHOOL. Yes, there was a rather complicated story. I think you yourself understand who started all this.
      1. Canep
        Canep 27 January 2014 10: 29
        +8
        Quote: LaGlobal
        I think you yourself understand who started all this.

        Of course I understand, Brussels and Washington took advantage of the Nazi sentiment in western Ukraine. And how can you call a brother of a person, and those who support him, and who believes that Moscal should be a slave to the Ukrainian. Which, Tagnibok and his friends, and silent consonants (western Ukraine), claim that they blamed all the troubles. And now about you, if you lived in India, then it would not cease to be a Buddhist country, you are a minority in the West. If it were not so, the rebellion in Ivano-Frankivsk would not have taken place, and the ruling party would not have been outlawed. And not only the ruling, but also the Communist Party fell under the distribution. And now about myself, I live Russian in Kazakhstan and do not resent when Kazakhstan is called an agrarian raw material, Muslim (mainly) country. Because this is so. But as a designer, I am trying to change this definition of Kazakhstan. Notice WORK and not screaming in the square.
        1. Fin
          Fin 27 January 2014 13: 21
          +1
          Quote: Canep
          Brussels and Washington took advantage of the Nazi sentiment in western Ukraine.

          I can't understand why they needed to start all this mess now. In a year, the elections would have prepared their candidate, seeing nothing Yanyk stupidly begins to manipulate the results for himself. Protest, barricades, and perhaps more than one Kiev. And the chances of success are greater. And we wouldn't have had anything special to argue with our "partners". Or were you afraid that with our loans Yanyk will raise the economy? I deeply doubt - he does not know how to do it. They are in a hurry somewhere, they are up to something worse.
      2. SHOCK.
        SHOCK. 27 January 2014 10: 32
        +2
        "Or I fall under your criterion for assessing the Western Ukrainian people, since I myself was born in Ivano-Frankovsk, and lived there for 17 years, and graduated from the RUSSIAN SCHOOL."
        Of course, there are exceptions, but in my opinion there are not so many. I had many friends from those parts, but literally a few were loyal to the Russians.
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. nickname 1 and 2
        nickname 1 and 2 27 January 2014 12: 45
        0
        Quote: LaGlobal
        - I would not be in your place so expressed about the fraternal people!


        It’s probably already time to say: about a country in which there is a large RUSSIAN diaspora!

        I dont understand what. What such considerations do not allow us, Russia, to protect our national interests?
        And even more so, I don’t understand what prevents to protect OUR - CITIZENS who now live in Ukraine?

        It is necessary to annul the agreement on independence under the pretext that it did not mean that the country would pursue an unfriendly policy!

        And if there is no such phrase, then it must be entered.

        On x - hell such a DEMOCRACY if it allows you to impose your will on the majority?

        These GAMES in Ukraine should show the world, teach a lesson to swindlers how to achieve their goal, and to an intelligent population - what softness and unscrupulousness can bring to.
        According to the Constitution, the president must not only be loyal to dissent, but also must ensure RIGHTS and other parts of the population. After all, it’s not written there that - not to use force against hooligans? If some burn tires then others inhale this ashes? And where are their rights not to breathe burning? well, etc.

        If there is a will, there is a head, then ALWAYS you can find a rationale for MEANING YOUNG PEOPLE!
        1. edge
          edge 27 January 2014 14: 09
          0
          Ukraine needs a lesson and work on mistakes, otherwise there would be nothing .....
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. The comment was deleted.
    5. ed65b
      ed65b 27 January 2014 09: 55
      +5
      Quote: Canep
      It seems that she was a couple of months late. If now Ukraine will join the EU, it will most likely be in parts. And the first to be knocked on the EU is pro-fascist and beggarly western Ukraine, let it be accepted, their ideology is quite close to Europe. I don’t see any prospects to save Ukraine as a whole state, the Maidan had to be dispersed in December and the SBU was involved for debriefing, even then there were attempts to overthrow the legally elected government. In two months of inaction, the rebels were able to organize and absorb Western grants. And now the rebellion is taking place in half of the regions.

      Yes, it seems that the article just appeared at the Russia-EU summit at the time, Putin and Merkel will just be discussing the fate of Ukraine.
      1. Canep
        Canep 27 January 2014 11: 33
        -1
        Quote: ed65b
        Putin and Merkel will discuss the fate of Ukraine.

        Now there is nothing to discuss. Ukraine is likely to cease to exist, and the Reichsfuhrer of the Fourth Reich Merkel, in the person of the Trinity supported by her, and in particular Brigadenführer Tyagnibok, has done a lot to the collapse of Ukraine.
        1. ed65b
          ed65b 27 January 2014 11: 43
          +2
          Quote: Canep
          Quote: ed65b
          Putin and Merkel will discuss the fate of Ukraine.

          Now there is nothing to discuss. Ukraine is likely to cease to exist, and the Reichsfuhrer of the Fourth Reich Merkel, in the person of the Trinity supported by her, and in particular Brigadenführer Tyagnibok, has done a lot to the collapse of Ukraine.

          You’re wrong Seryoga, and now there’s just something to discuss. There is a subject and consequences just to be discussed.
          1. Canep
            Canep 27 January 2014 12: 03
            +2
            While they will bazaar Natsik will tear Ukraine apart. It's time to act.
        2. Ptah
          Ptah 27 January 2014 11: 56
          +1
          Quote: Canep
          Reichsführer Fourth Reich Merkel

          Angela never be a Führer. Amid budget cuts in all positions. With a reduction in BV. With tension in the labor market among ethnic Germans, etc.
          This is her last term! She is very reminiscent of Putin in domestic politics. It seems that everything is safe so far, but people, to put it mildly, do not understand the decisions that have been made (not taken), and many hate them.
          Her party (CDU) and into the Bundestag somehow climbed similarly to "Eat Russia", having united with the Christian Social Union (CSU) and the Free Democratic Party (SDP).
          Time will tell...
          11
          1. Hug
            Hug 27 January 2014 14: 10
            +3
            Re.:Ptah
            This is her last term! She is very reminiscent of Putin in domestic politics. It seems that everything is safe so far, but people, to put it mildly, do not understand the decisions that have been made (not taken), and many hate them.


            This is where you got such information? Merkel is by far the most respected politician in Germany. Her party stands very firmly, her rating among the people is consistently high. At the same time, all left-wing populist parties with their leaders: Gysi, Gabriel and others, with all their populism and the attraction of Muslim immigrants, cannot reach her and the CDU, compare with her and her party.
            PS: The people I call not the lumpen-proletariat and non-Muslim immigrants who are waiting for a freebie in the form of "Sozialhilfe"
            Of course, there are our fellow immigrants who receive benefits, but with rare exceptions, they are already quite elderly people.
            1. samoletil18
              samoletil18 27 January 2014 18: 01
              -1
              Quote: Kram
              Merkel is by far the most respected politician in Germany. Her party is very solid, her

              ja, ja, natürlich. Our ex really respect her yes
              1. Hug
                Hug 27 January 2014 22: 07
                -1
                Re .: samoletil18
                ja, ja, natürlich. Our ex really respect her


                It seems that you know what you are writing about. "from within". "Informed" you are ours, our former ones really respect her, especially against the background of comparing her with our own domestic politicians and leaders of states from the former USSR. But this is not the point: the voters, for the most part, are local ethnic Germans, t.s. "made in Germania" and they choose and evaluate the leadership of their country, and by the way very good leadership, especially judging by the economy, standard of living and respect in the world.
                1. ultra
                  ultra 28 January 2014 00: 00
                  0
                  Quote: Kram
                  and respect in the world.

                  Well, this is partly! As long as Germany is occupied, she cannot see real respect in the world! hi
                2. samoletil18
                  samoletil18 28 January 2014 15: 59
                  0
                  Just heard reviews from our ex. They in Turkey like to communicate with our real people. And my wife is an ethnic German. And I didn’t minus one. And in general, they still pay indemnity to Israel. And Putin, since there is a precedent, also requires it. He immediately has a rating increase. Waiting for cons from Israel. And Germany.
                  1. Ptah
                    Ptah 29 January 2014 05: 46
                    0
                    Quote: samoletil18
                    Waiting for cons from Israel. And Germany.

                    "From Germany" - "+".
                    Such as "Krum-Mark" in Germashka also suddenly began to consider themselves "ethnic Germans" and they vote for the Merkel party for one simple reason that they have little "indemnities" - they need EVERYTHING.
                    I say that Merkel, like Putin, sometimes do such things that the Germans do not understand ... "Marks" trumpet at all corners that they "never had a good life in Germany / Russia."
                    And to your wife from the "quarter-ethnic" GERMAN - Mein Kompliments und Wunsch nach Gluck love
          2. edge
            edge 27 January 2014 14: 11
            0
            Quote: Ptah
            Angela never be a Führer. Amid budget cuts in all positions. With a reduction in BV. With tension in the labor market among ethnic Germans, etc.

            it was on the same wave that Adolf was brought to power ......
    6. Civil
      Civil 27 January 2014 11: 50
      +1
      And the Nord Stream goes directly to Germany.
    7. edge
      edge 27 January 2014 13: 55
      0
      Quote: Canep
      It seems that she was a couple of months late. If now Ukraine will join the EU, it will most likely be piecemeal

      Ukraine will remain unified, this is unambiguous, the rowdy-zapadentsev will be put on a hungry rations - they should know their place. Well, Germany has a real opportunity to become the Berlin region as part of the Russian Federation, for the near future.
    8. Ascetic
      Ascetic 27 January 2014 16: 38
      +4
      Quote: Canep
      It seems that she was a couple of months late. If now Ukraine will join the EU, it will most likely be in parts. And the first to be knocked on the EU is pro-fascist and beggarly western Ukraine, let it be accepted, their ideology is quite close to Europe.

      The fact of the matter is that the EU read Germany, such an alignment is not profitable. After all, the main assets and tidbits are located in the southeast. They need Ukraine entirely under the rule of a group of oligarchs-compradors and a puppet government. Like in Russia during the "seven bankers". Why does Merkel in addition to all the problems with Greece and other Portugal also Galician Kosovo. Who will provide them with work, pay pensions, social services? After all, almost the entire Ukrainian budget is formed by the industrial East. The division of Ukraine according to the Syrian scenario is a Wanglo-Saxon project entirely with the active participation of Poland and the Baltic states. This is an American move in the fight against Putin's Russia. Yesterday I laid out an interesting infographic of where the information attack on Ukraine is coming from. Germany is not in the forefront there, but the main beneficiaries are well traced. It is clearly seen in this diagram that these are shallow-shaven, minke whales, wading pods. Naturally, a handshake column in Moscow and even Qatar.

      Where are the tweets tagged with #euromaidan

      1. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 28 January 2014 00: 25
        +1
        Quote: Ascetic
        This is an American move precisely in the fight against Putin's Russia.

        Yes, apparently it is! Ukraine is not an independent player in the geopolitical arena, but only an apple of discord, a pain point in Russia. When the Civil Slaughter breaks out in it, Russia will definitely not be up to the Asia-Pacific Region, Syria, etc. It will be necessary to save the Slavic brothers. I think the former owners will take care of the zapadents. Now much depends on the position of Germany and the potential for pressure from the GDP to make the decision we need. States have always been afraid and continue to be afraid of rapprochement between the Russian Federation and the Federal Republic of Germany. The common interests of Europe, supported by our participation, cannot be overcome. So they intrigue in the old fashioned way with a pair of small-shavens. Anglo-Saxons, what to take from them! But when it comes to the UN Security Council, then the position of the parties will be clearly indicated. Then the voice and position of China will not hurt us.
        But, if anyone remembers, such a scenario (turmoil and partition of Ukraine) for the sake of distracting the Russian Federation from the problems of the ATS (APR?) Has already sounded on the forum. Then it seemed - fantasy, but no! Someone looked deeply at the root of the problem, seeing the internal mechanisms of the crisis.
        Yes, you can’t say anything: the undercover fight is strong! It is bad that again on the field of our geopolitical interests.
    9. silver_roman
      silver_roman 27 January 2014 18: 43
      +2
      Quote: Canep
      I don’t see any prospects to save Ukraine as a whole state,


      If you do not see them, then this does not mean that they are not!
      I read the comments and realized that most are happy with the collapse of Ukraine ???
      As for me, this pure defeat is the purest! it would be if we lost the battle of Stalingrad and merged the entire Kursk arc. that’s how I personally see the division of Ukraine.

      Quote: Canep
      Maidan needed to be dispersed in December


      I agree with that. the yanyk is too weak to make such decisions. but there is Putin who can make such decisions. By the way, the option with Yanyk already definitely doesn’t. Even I, a purely pro-Russian person, would like the departure of a yanyk. And ideally: Yanyk signs an agreement on joining the CU, they help him not to die under the onslaught of the Maydan, and, most importantly (!), He needs to put the next president - pro-Russian! This is MANDATORY, because if they come some kind of purchased from * bišche like a nickname, then the agreement with the vehicle will be torn apart.

      ps don't give up so fast. Nothing really happened, but you * are already giving up! not in Russian it!

      * - MOST COMMENTING ON THIS ARTICLE!
    10. alone
      alone 27 January 2014 20: 39
      +1
      I don’t remember. Ukraine is still not Monaco. The people of Ukraine must decide the fate of their country, moreover, they must do it themselves, without advice and guidance!
      1. silver_roman
        silver_roman 27 January 2014 20: 58
        +1
        Quote: lonely
        without advice and guidance!

        all right. but you want to say that now everything happens without instructions ???
        people are stupefied simply.
        talked personally with the maydanuts: they seemed to be under some kind of dope, although these are some of my old friends - normal guys, but their brains are washed out instantly.
        and if you stick to your point of view, then tomorrow Ukraine will be associated with the EU, and the day after tomorrow it will join NATO! More recently, it was difficult to imagine Baltic membership in NATO! so draw conclusions!
        need collective defense! This is a war of a different level. and as for me, it’s much more effective than a primitive military invasion: you do not spend your resources, with the exception of a couple of tens of millions of green ones, you get a whole territory that ultimately works for you and also you get millions of dope who will dance under your a pipe!
        but in general, in the Russian Federation it is much easier to provoke such a lawlessness as in Ukraine. The Russian Federation is full of nationalities, full of ethnic unrest. So that everything that happened in Syria and Libya, what is happening in Ukraine is a great rehearsal!
        1. Hug
          Hug 27 January 2014 23: 35
          0
          Re .: silver_roman
          ... these are some of my old acquaintances - normal guys, but brains are washed out instantly.


          Well, I can confirm it 100% - the very one has exactly the same opinion, after talking with some of my friends: they seemed to be normal smart guys, and now like zombies. I know very well that the dislike index (to put it mildly) for our president goes off scale both in the west of Ukraine and in the east of it, but sometimes you need to turn on your brains, even if you dislike him: what's next? Anarchy? Destruction of institutions of power? The split of Ukraine? - Who needs this?
          Definitely not for Ukrainian citizens! We will only lose from this: economy, standard of living, defense ability, criminality - we can continue to list all the negative factors that follow these events.
          1. Hug
            Hug 27 January 2014 23: 47
            -1
            Yes, and by the way about the president! I already here, on the site, expressed my assumptions that Yanukovych is a coward and a traitor to the interests of the state, because still not introduced emergency mode. And he did not do this, because afraid to lose their capital in western banks. So here is a confirmation from newsru.ua

            http://rus.newsru.ua/ukraine/27jan2014/chp_sankcii.html

            The EU may respond to the introduction of a state of emergency in Ukraine with sanctions

            If a state of emergency is declared in Ukraine, the European Union can immediately impose sanctions.

            It is reported by Deutsche Welle, citing its own sources in diplomatic circles in Brussels.

            According to the interlocutor of DW, in the case of the imposition of sanctions, certain responsible persons and businessmen will not only be prohibited from entering the EU, but their bank accounts will be frozen.

            "Yanukovych probably still does not believe that the European Union is ready to impose sanctions against him, the powers that be and the oligarchs. But here he is very mistaken." - emphasized the interlocutor.

            Now, the interlocutor continued, the European Union does not want to talk about it openly, as it seeks to be able to continue negotiations with the President of Ukraine and seek a compromise.

            "If the European Union imposes sanctions, then all doors will be closed, you know, this will be the last step," the source said.

            The EU has proposed changing the format of the Russia-EU summit in connection with the outcome of the Vilnius Eastern Partnership Summit and the situation around Ukraine, a senior EU official told reporters on condition of anonymity in Brussels.

            Earlier in Brussels, European Commission spokeswoman Pia Arenkilde Hansen said the EU continues to communicate with all parties to the conflict in Ukraine in order to achieve a political solution to the crisis.
        2. Boa kaa
          Boa kaa 28 January 2014 00: 43
          +2
          Quote: silver_roman
          in the Russian Federation it is much easier to provoke such a lawlessness as in Ukraine. The Russian Federation is full of nationalities, full of ethnic unrest.

          I share your pain for the brotherly people. But we, unlike Ukraine, have a nationwide leader with the experience of Chechnya, a coherent domestic policy, and a successful foreign one. Cadres of managers (Shoigu, Sobyanin, etc.) are selected to carry out the installation of the center. Semibankirshchina was thrown over a hill, NGOs were cut with funding from the State Department, the oligarchs are slowly being brought back to normal, etc.
          What can the Ukrainian authorities boast of? NOTHING! What a pop - such is the coming! You can’t immediately sit on three chairs, as the yanyk tried to do. And then - there’s nothing to blame on the mirror ...
          1. silver_roman
            silver_roman 28 January 2014 01: 13
            +1
            Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
            I share your pain for the brotherly people

            Thank you!

            Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
            unlike Ukraine, there is a national leader with the experience of Chechnya, a coherent domestic policy, and a successful foreign one.

            I absolutely agree and I will say more: your (our) national leader is the only hope for Ukraine. This is my position and not only mine in Ukraine.

            Yanyk defies any comparison. sometimes one gets the impression, and sometimes the opinion that if he even counts his steps, then literally seconds before a decision is made. so all that I expect from him is that he drag us to the Customs Union and let him bring us down on all 4 sides from the country, or let him be judged in The Hague, I do not care! But our people must unite!
    11. Wellych
      Wellych 28 January 2014 01: 46
      0
      The split of Ukraine is disadvantageous to anyone, but only Yanukovych can write off everything, Russia does not need another Caucasus, Europe - they are certainly clever, but not very fond of their greenhouse to join the conflict zone. Ukraine, in fact, was never called to Europe, even in its entirety.
  2. mirag2
    mirag2 27 January 2014 08: 41
    +8
    Although the Germans did not deliver Klitschko after the failure in Vilnius, they probably did not expect what would happen in Kiev, because the German mentality was different from ours, but from the Ukrainian one.
    The Germans were ready to fight for power in Ukraine, but the legal elections, re-elections, but this thing is clearly not the fruit of their work.
    And the Nazis of Yatsenyuk-Tyagnibok are too anti-Semitic, so that they would not pay attention.
    Especially in light of the recent events in Europe (the intensification of anti-Semitism, or rather anti-Zionism, these concepts are now mixed), therefore, in Odessa (where there is an extensive Jewish diaspora), meetings were held against the west of Ukraine.
    1. Ptah
      Ptah 27 January 2014 09: 27
      +5
      Quote: mirag2
      Especially in light of the recent events in Europe (the intensification of anti-Semitism, or rather anti-Zionism, these concepts are now mixed)

      Absolutely, Sasha! And the media do it. And it’s not for you to explain how this is done. From whose submission is another question, but sometimes it comes to insanity. In my memory, such a case. Several years ago, bikers took action against GASOLINE PRICE INCREASE. If the farmers would come on combines and tractors, then these on motorcycles, which is natural. We drove up to the Bundestag, put our bikes on the asphalt and sat on them ourselves. Immediately, the journalists began to take pictures of exclusively equipment from the Second World War. In the evening, articles in newspapers "Fascists want to seize the power!" The grief!
      And the fact that every German has an old technique, especially "Hergestellt in Deutschland. Deutsch-Qualitat!" this is a fetish, as if it were forgotten.

      Shl. One uncle in the village showed me "his" bicycle, which at that time was already more than a hundred years old. And such cases are no exception. Very commendable. IMHO.
      And one of us can show the great on which he rode in childhood ....
    2. Canep
      Canep 27 January 2014 14: 04
      +3
      Israel sent its specials to Ukraine representatives, with the task of compiling lists of the Jewish population, and determining the necessary funds in the event of a sudden evacuation of this population. The coming to power of the fascists, the Israeli government does not consider impossible.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. atalef
        atalef 27 January 2014 14: 06
        -1
        Quote: Canep
        Israel sent its specials to Ukraine representatives, with the task of compiling lists of the Jewish population, and determining the necessary funds in the event of a sudden evacuation of this population. The coming to power of the fascists, the Israeli government does not consider impossible.

        Seriously ? And we have something like that about it.
        1. Canep
          Canep 27 January 2014 14: 25
          +1
          I read it in the news, maybe crap, but if you google this topic, it becomes like the truth. Evacuation, I think, is provided for not in Israel (there you have it so closely), but in Russia or the EU. But Israel is going to organize this process, and possibly sponsor.
        2. silver_roman
          silver_roman 27 January 2014 21: 00
          0
          it is likely that it is crap. But something else is interesting to me: are you personally aware of everything that is happening in Israel? are aware of the plans of their special services, government and elite? don't think anything superfluous, I'm really just interested! suddenly you are another "Stirlitz" !!! wink
    3. Hug
      Hug 27 January 2014 14: 18
      +1
      Re .: mirag2
      The Germans were ready to fight for power in Ukraine, but the legal elections, re-elections, but this thing is clearly not the fruit of their work.

      Write generally correctly, except
      ... therefore in Odessa (where the vast Jewish diaspora) ...
      - already there is no longer this vast Jewish diaspora, almost no one is left.
  3. Denis
    Denis 27 January 2014 08: 42
    +2
    How can such German maneuvers be explained?
    Wiser and still remember
    Where is Germany and where is Ukraine? And if Russia and the DPRK begin to discuss the fate of Bavaria or some French-Belgian province?
    Geyrope advice to shut up
    1. ReifA
      ReifA 27 January 2014 08: 53
      0
      So it is necessary to discuss. And "nikhatyat".
  4. jjj
    jjj 27 January 2014 08: 49
    +2
    Germany is tied to Russia not only with visible economic threads. Few paid attention to the fact that the "sudden" pardon of Khodorkovsky was the result of the work of the diplomacy of the two countries
    1. Ptah
      Ptah 27 January 2014 09: 30
      +1
      Sorry, but how does UDD Hodor link with economic ties? I just don’t catch the connection. Maybe you know? hi
      1. askort154
        askort154 27 January 2014 10: 59
        -5
        Ptah ... Sorry, but how does UDD Hodor link with economic ties? I just don’t catch the connection. Maybe you know?

        If Germany is strenuously "pushing" the professional boxer (having her citizenship) Klitschko to the presidency of Ukraine, then why not "prepare" Khodorkovsky for the presidency of Russia by 2018. Germany is preparing a double blow to Russia.
        If she succeeds, then no competitors in the "development" of Russian resources,
        she will not be scared.
        1. Ptah
          Ptah 27 January 2014 11: 30
          +3
          Quote: askort154
          If Germany strongly "pushes" a professional boxer (having her citizenship) Klitschko to the presidency of Ukraine

          For the sake of justice ...
          Look in more detail for yourself, but I have already repeatedly provided links.
          Since the summer of last year, both of them were invited to take German citizenship. Vovka accepted, and Vitka refused, and now he only has a RESIDENCE PERMIT. Maybe even then I decided to run for, or something else. I do not know.
          I do not know the Ukrainian laws regarding citizenship requirements for candidates. But even if persons with a double are allowed, then this is generally absurd.
          Here I also forgiven the infa, as if the Bundasia has questions for both of them about the concealment of income in order to avoid taxes. If this is confirmed, then it is possible that the "view of living" will be removed. This is tough here, in spite of the fact that he has already dragged more than 150 Eurecke muliens into the economy of "Vaterland".
          Another such moment. For the annual confirmation of the "type", you must document your presence in Germany for at least half a year. Interestingly, in the heat of his stormy activity in Ukraine, Nickname will "pick up" 183 days?
          Do you seriously believe that Germany needs Ukraine, especially the western regions with almost no production and low purchasing power of the Ukrainians themselves. Yes, by the summer-autumn of this year, the Bundasia will be drowned by millions, loafers pouring in from Bulgaria, Romania, etc.
          Mark my word, if this happens, then the whole economy - kabzda. And at the same time the CDU / CSU parties under the control of Angela. The SPD will gobble it up. And by the year 17 (in the next election) will dominate the Bundestag.
          And their slogans are never liberal ....
          1. askort154
            askort154 27 January 2014 12: 51
            0
            Ptah .... Do you seriously believe that Germany needs Ukraine, ...


            Do you seriously think that German policy is sovereign, with the presence of US military bases on its territory, and Merkel is being monitored by the NSA around the clock?
            In a previous post I spoke about the intentions of Germany, purely conditionally, implying
            not only her, but the entire EU, from behind which the ears of the United States protrude. And the main stake was made on Germany: the "fuss" with the treatment and release of Tymoshenko, when it was not possible to free her, they pulled out a spare "pebble" from her bosom - Klitschko ...
            I do not exclude that the "political sufferer" Khodorkovsky will be used as a "pebble", but for Russia. Here, the United States assigned Germany the role of the first violin.
            1. Ptah
              Ptah 27 January 2014 13: 27
              -1
              Quote: askort154
              In a previous post I spoke about the intentions of Germany, purely conditionally, implying
              not only her, but the whole EU

              That's all cleared up. It would have stood in your post instead of Germany - the EU, then my post might not have followed.
              As for the rest, I have no fundamental contradictions with you. The only reason why I reacted because I never spoke on behalf of the German government, but only convey the views of the Germans. And they, believe me, sometimes radically differ from Merkel’s opinions (?) The Germans’ attitude to Angel’s flirting with everyone in a row explains this -
              1. askort154
                askort154 27 January 2014 14: 46
                +1
                Ptah The attitude of Germans to flirting with Angela with everyone in a row explains this -


                Thank! Pictured, Obama: ....
                Inter-s-n-oh ... the German along? ..., or ... across like mine?
                1. The comment was deleted.
                2. nickname 1 and 2
                  nickname 1 and 2 27 January 2014 15: 02
                  0
                  Quote: askort154
                  The attitude of the Germans to flirting Angela with everyone in a row explains this -


                  She is not flirting. She rather tells everyone - there are NO WELCOME to my germany.
                3. Ptah
                  Ptah 28 January 2014 02: 52
                  0
                  Quote: askort154
                  Pictured, Obama: ....

                  He’s the most .... A cyber voyeur ....
                  Quote: askort154
                  Inter-s-n-oh ... the German along? ..., or ... across like mine?

                  laughing laughing laughing In general, there are two questions here. Obama knows the answer to the first one, you just answered the second to those who were really interested in "What is the location" of my "askort154".good
                  Secretly, Alexander. For a long time he lived among German women and had the opportunity to make sure that in the overwhelming majority they still have "along", like the Russians.
                  If we take into account the "information" reported by you, then "your" is not German ... laughing drinks
            2. edge
              edge 27 January 2014 14: 21
              0
              Quote: askort154
              that the "political sufferer" Khodorkovsky will be used as a "pebble", but for Russia.

              it’s unlikely that our guys work much harder .... the alpenstock has already gone down in history.
        2. edge
          edge 27 January 2014 14: 17
          +1
          Quote: askort154
          If Germany is strenuously "pushing" a professional boxer (having her citizenship) Klitschko to the presidency of Ukraine, then why not "prepare" Khodorkovsky for the presidency of Russia by 2018

          faq, Dima wasn’t biting off the president’s pie for nothing ..... for the next 12 years, except Putin, nobody should be in the chair ...... and this is for the good.
          1. askort154
            askort154 27 January 2014 15: 13
            0
            gurt .... faq, Dimka in vain did bite off the presidential pie ..... for the next 12 years, except Putin, nobody should be in the chair ...... and this is for the good.

            I do not think that the GDP will go on for another term. Such a life rhythm that it leads requires good health, which quickly deflates with age. History does not know many such "fidgety" leaders of states. And it is not in his nature to lead the country without taking his back from his chair.


            ]
          2. Deniska
            Deniska 27 January 2014 16: 58
            0
            And you didn’t notice that Putin began to walk hard, look at the laying of flowers in Leningrad, And sometimes there is a stumbling block ... A bad sign of a stroke ...
            1. SRC P-15
              SRC P-15 27 January 2014 20: 19
              +2
              Quote: Deniska
              And you didn’t notice that Putin began to walk hard, look at the laying of flowers in Leningrad,

              And what do you think, should have been dancing while laying wreaths? Do not look for a black cat in a dark room.
      2. vlad_pr
        vlad_pr 27 January 2014 11: 52
        +1
        [quote = Ptah] Sorry, but how does UOD Hodor link with ..

        Parole (parole) and a pardon by the President are completely different things. Please do not confuse God's gift with fried eggs
        Sincerely.
        1. Ptah
          Ptah 27 January 2014 12: 07
          -1
          Yes. This is if legally. But here they coincided in a strange way ...
  5. Bogdarin
    Bogdarin 27 January 2014 08: 55
    +1
    The desire to eat a fish and, at the same time, to sit down is known where, nobody has brought anyone to good. And in Ukraine, the Syrian-p.i.nd.s.os.s.k.i.e options will not work, Russia will be able to defend the fraternal people.
    1. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 28 January 2014 01: 04
      +1
      Quote: Bogdarin
      Russia will be able to defend the fraternal people.

      Undoubtedly! But I would like to see in business the working class of Dnepropetrovsk, Kharkov, Donetsk, Zaporozhye ... If the Fatherland is so dear, then then none of the Ukrainians protect it, but rely on the Russian brother?
  6. kapitan281271
    kapitan281271 27 January 2014 09: 29
    +2
    Guys from Ukraine, something is invisible to see everything on Euromaidavna
    1. Ptah
      Ptah 27 January 2014 09: 55
      +2
      Judging by the image from the web, there is generally suspicious silence. Only one bonfire burns, few stung, they stopped clapping and rattling the barrels. It snowed at night and it seems to be cleaner. Strong wind and cold.
      Or decided to go work ...
      Well, maybe it’s too early ... Soon the usual gimp will begin ...
      1. olviko
        olviko 27 January 2014 12: 16
        +2
        "Judging by the image from the web, there is generally suspicious silence."
        Maybe this is the point. Judging by some reports, the militants simply do not have enough strength. Police counter-tactics are as follows. In the West of Ukraine, doing nothing was pointless. But when the process of seizing buildings moved to the center, where the authorities could rely on loyal security officials, they began to switch to counter-offensive tactics. As soon as the passions subsided and the militants left the next region, leaving the military guard in the form of several dozen “activists” they were immediately arrested (in Zaporozhye and the Dnieper even during the assault). It is no accident that among those arrested, along with local cadres, there are quite a lot of immigrants from western Ukraine. Including criminals. There are few militants left in Kiev now. They oversee the seizure of buildings by region. It is no accident that it was the recent arrests that alarmed the true curators of the Maidan. That they delivered an ultimatum to Yanukovych, which he naturally ignored. From this I conclude that it’s not worth talking about the fact that Yanukovych is losing ground. Right now he is trying not just to defend himself, but to counterattack and judging by the hysteria of the Maidan quite successfully, whatever the opposition media writes about successes in the regions.
        http://imperiya.by/
        1. Hug
          Hug 27 January 2014 14: 31
          -2
          I really hope that you are right. However, the reality seems to be completely different, at least in the electronic Ukrainian press.
      2. askort154
        askort154 27 January 2014 15: 39
        +1
        Ptah ... Well, maybe it's too early ... Soon the familiar gimp will begin.

        And I am surprised by the lull of the Western media. Especially Polish and Baltic.
        This is such a delicacy for vultures, and they quietly sit on the sidelines,
        wait. Or are they waiting for something more, afraid to frighten off?
        Perhaps they haven't given the front commands yet ?!
  7. ed65b
    ed65b 27 January 2014 09: 58
    +2
    the West will take for itself everything that falls off from Ukraine, do not even hesitate. They will create a pseudo-state with a puppet regime, they will give money and we will get another Poland near us - the Baltic states are only more evil and odious.
  8. VohaAhov
    VohaAhov 27 January 2014 10: 06
    +2
    In 1939, the USSR and Germany already discussed the fate of one European state (Poland). How this ended both for Poland (loss of sovereignty), for Germany (loss in World War 2 and division into 2 states), and for the USSR (who forgot, we lost about 27 million of our population), everyone knows. Nothing to discuss. It is necessary to condemn and condemn the Maidan militants and give Ukraine a chance to live and develop quietly.
  9. yehat
    yehat 27 January 2014 10: 16
    +4
    it looks like the EU is cracking, as is Ukraine.
    Brussels, England France and the USA one way, Germany and the rest the other.
    and soon we will see a tripolar world ...
    And the position of Germany seemed clever to me.
  10. JIaIIoTb
    JIaIIoTb 27 January 2014 10: 23
    +2
    Everything that is happening now reminds me of 39 years, only Ukraine appears instead of Poland.
  11. Bakht
    Bakht 27 January 2014 10: 35
    +10
    Analogies are a moot point. I wrote a couple of months ago: two sworn friends Poland and Russia are interested in the disintegration of Ukraine.

    The geopolitical project "Ukraine" has no prospects. For the simple reason that it was created by Russia-USSR. Without the participation of this external force, Ukraine is not a tenant. Or a tenant with a complex medical history.

    In any case, throwing Russia off the scales is not worth it. And Russia's interest lies in two obvious things. Maybe there is more, but two factors are decisive. The first is the production base of the East. And the second - Crimea with its fleet bases. Europe should not get them in any case. There is also the Kiev region with its Orthodox heritage that is more than 1000 years old. That’s all geopolitics.
    1. edge
      edge 27 January 2014 14: 28
      +1
      Quote: Bakht
      The geopolitical project "Ukraine" has no prospects. For the simple reason that it was created by Russia-USSR. Without the participation of this external force, Ukraine is not a tenant. Or a tenant with a complex medical history. In any case, you should not throw Russia off the scales. And Russia's interest lies in two obvious things. There may be more, but two factors are decisive. The first is the production base of the East. And the second is Crimea with its naval bases. Europe should not receive them in any case. There is also the Kiev region with its Orthodox heritage which is more than 1000 years old. That's all geopolitics.

      and, all nonsense, if you follow the general direction, then Russia, in the person of its president, has outplayed the EU ... and they are now embarking on all the grave (stupid) ..... greed sir, nothing personal.
  12. svoi
    svoi 27 January 2014 10: 50
    +2
    Quote: tronin.maxim

    Rather, for Americans, but not for us. Joining the EU or (God forbid) split Ukraine is not good.

    Why? I'm talking about a split, however, some section of the pipe there most likely passes, (too lazy to look at maps, schemes). But the southern stream is being completed, i.e. an alternative to delivery, and therefore the basis for bargaining, the Russian Federation has. Explain why we need the so-called western part of this territorial entity? The buffer works in both directions, the so-called Russobia, does not interfere with trade. But how funny it is to listen to the yapping of a strange man, Russophobic.
  13. Stinger
    Stinger 27 January 2014 11: 08
    0
    Quote: Canep
    It seems that she was a couple of months late.


    Yes, it's too late to drink Borzhom. It seems that soon it will finally become clear "who ate our bacon."
  14. shelva
    shelva 27 January 2014 11: 14
    0
    In 1939, Germany and I already discussed "the future fate of Ukraine." So it’s not the first time for us, and the forces that push us to do this are the same.
    1. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 28 January 2014 01: 14
      +3
      Quote: shelva
      In 1939, Germany and I already discussed "the future fate of Ukraine."

      Probably POLAND after all. Ukraine was a Soviet republic within the USSR. And I.V. Stalin did not trade in lands, but more and more "bought".
  15. oscar
    oscar 27 January 2014 11: 41
    +3
    Second shortest joke: Boxer President.
    1. Ptah
      Ptah 27 January 2014 12: 01
      +1
      Quote: oscar
      Boxer President.

      It was.
      The actor is the president.
      Muscled Governor.
      You can still remember someone on the globe ..
  16. chunga-changa
    chunga-changa 27 January 2014 11: 43
    +1
    German gay boxer as president from Germany, Hollywood actress Mila Jovovich, prime minister from America, she is also Ukrainian. Together they will lead Nenko from victory to victory. The envy of the eastern neighbors with their tyrant, and the strangler of freedom Colonel KGB.
    1. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 28 January 2014 01: 18
      +1
      Quote: chunga-changa
      eastern neighbors with their tyrant, and strangler of freedom Colonel KGB.

      Putin, being the Director of the department (office), had a V / ZV "lieutenant general". At least you need to know ...
  17. 222222
    222222 27 January 2014 16: 07
    +1
    [quote = Denis] [/ quote] Doubtful, very doubtful!
    Estonians pay pensions to Nazi henchmen and spend marches every year, and those involved in the Holocaust more than the Wehrmacht-served
    At the opening of a hockey tournament in Latvia or Lithuania, the swastika on ice was built, having breached that this is a national
    And what? [/ Quote]
    ..You understand why they are allowed to do this .. In mini-states near the borders of Great Russia .. So that the voice does not break at mongrels when barking at a bear .. And even then PACE scolds them timidly and friendly every year .. so businesslike, for their Nazi antics ... and behind the scenes prompts: "Let's EXTRA .. Hell them!".
  18. Metal
    Metal 27 January 2014 17: 03
    +2
    It’s strange, if I’m not mistaken, his brother Vladimir Klitschko has German citizenship. And I did not know about Vitali Klitschko.
  19. delfinN
    delfinN 27 January 2014 19: 10
    +4
    Germany even conducted a comparative analysis. Europe sir.
    1. Denis
      Denis 27 January 2014 20: 16
      +2
      Quote: delfinN
      comparative analysis
      Very incomplete, no graphs - the head is not bent off
  20. Dimoll
    Dimoll 27 January 2014 20: 57
    +10
    Oh guys there ...deleted by moderator Apollo their heads were fooled. History needs to be taught, but she herself will put everything in its place.

    You know the degeneration - Kiev is the mother of Russian cities. All of Russia, Ukraine, Belarus and a bunch of whom else with Kievan Rus began. We are all those who owe their lives to the long-standing Kievans.
    And from whom do you want to separate yourself all the time and demand freedom, does it turn out from yourself?
    Western Ukraine is a little different, there Lyakhi and other Europeans. I myself am 1/3 Pole, 1/3 Ukrainian, 1/3 Russian.
    And it will not work out for anyone in the west of Ukraine, not because they can’t, but because Europe, western Ukraine without the east and Crimea is unnecessary. And let the Western ones not really amuse themselves, they don’t need anyone with their naked jo, there are enough dormaeans in Europe.
    And no matter how insulting this sounds for the Ukrainians, you must understand that Europe does not need you, but is just a means in the global geo-political-economic game that is being waged between Russia, the USA, Europe (Germany), Great Britain, China and The SAG is tied to oil pipelines, straits, landlocked corridors for armies, fueling small manageable conflicts that weaken neighbors. And Ukraine, when it will be used in this very game and not in the best way, it will simply be thrown into the nearest ditch, as an unnecessary woman of easy virtue, who was amused with it, put under other important players, and now kick in the ass. And there are many such countries today, just look at the map and understand everything.

    While Ukrainians do not understand simple common truths, they will be maidan on the delight of millions of viewers' eyes. And the historical roots will rot.
    There is such a phrase - one who does not know his story, has come from nowhere and will go nowhere, and he will not have stories, nor will he be.
    1. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 28 January 2014 01: 50
      +2
      Quote: Dimoll
      I myself am 1 / 3 Pole, 1 / 3 Ukrainian, 1 / 3 Russian.

      Listen internationalist! Learn at least 1 / 3 of your Russian history about the Principality of Moscow, Krivichy, Polonichi, Scythians, Huns, etc. And then you’ll tell us who the Russian tsars settled at the edge of the field.
      Quote: Dimoll
      one who does not know his story,

      should not rule someone else's for the sake of momentary trends. At your leisure, read "The Beginning of Rus" by D. Ilovaisky, you can Tatishchev.
    2. Vasek
      Vasek 28 January 2014 02: 04
      +1
      Quote: Dimoll
      I myself am 1 / 3 Pole, 1 / 3 Ukrainian, 1 / 3 Russian.

      Dimoll, did you have three parents? bully
  21. Black
    Black 27 January 2014 22: 14
    +1
    Quote: Ptah
    If Israel does not like it, then consider the end of the protest mood. Divisions of lawyers and dentists from Odessa will advance to the Maidan and disperse all the peaceful protesters ...


    Gossip is not only inappropriate, but also stupid.
  22. Grif
    Grif 28 January 2014 07: 06
    0
    I do not think that banderlogs are so keen to split Ukraine. They need Ukraine as a whole. Rather, there will be a creeping takeover of the regions. They will push through their ministers, mayors, officials. Unless, of course, they have enough intelligence and patience, which can be doubted.
  23. ImPerts
    ImPerts 29 January 2014 08: 52
    0
    There are many options for the development of events. But this picture is always before my eyes.