Military Review

Indian Air Force Criticizes FGFA Project

69
In 2007, Russia and India signed an agreement to jointly develop the fifth generation FGFA (Fifth-Generation Fighting Aircraft) fighter. It is assumed that the air force of India will become the launch customer of this aircraft, and in the future it will be delivered to third countries. Until recently news About the FGFA project they dealt with various organizational issues. In addition, information appeared on possible orders from third countries. 22 January became aware that the project is promising fighter has been criticized by the Indian military.



The Indian edition of the Business Standard in Russia doesn’t publish on Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft: IAF ("Indian Air Force: Russia Can't Create Fifth Fighter FGFA") covers the current situation around a promising project. As it turned out, the joint project has ceased to organize the Indian military. Some features of this project have been the subject of criticism.

December 24 in New Delhi, a meeting devoted to the prospects of Indian aviation industry. According to Business Standard, during this event, representatives of the Indian Air Force sharply criticized the FGFA project. Claims to it come down to three main points: firstly, the Russian side is reluctant to share important information; secondly, the proposed AL-41F1 engines are not reliable enough, and are also only a modernization of the AL-31F engines; thirdly, the FGFA fighter is too expensive. In the case of financing the development and construction of such aircraft, the Indian military will be forced to reduce other purchases. Recall, India plans to invest about 6 billion US dollars in the FGFA program.

January 15 in the Ministry of Defense of India held a regular event on the project FGFA. According to the publication Business Standard, representatives of the Air Force command, responsible for the procurement of new equipment, during this event negatively responded about the project. The unreliable engine, the new radar station and the "raw" elements of stealth were subjected to criticism. In addition, the commanders of the Air Force are not satisfied with the small share of India in the works, as well as the excessive cost of mass-produced aircraft.

As can be seen from the available reports, the Indian Air Force is against the continuation of a joint project with Russia. In favor of this opinion, arguments are made concerning both the cost of the project and the possibilities of a promising aircraft. Nevertheless, joint design work can be considered a resolved issue. Moreover, from some statements by the leadership of the Indian Ministry of Defense, it can be understood that the Air Force will receive FGFA aircraft in the future.

Previously, the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II was considered a promising fifth-generation fighter for the Indian Air Force, but was quickly abandoned. Minister of Defense of India AK Anthony several times bluntly said that the air force does not need this machine, and they can be updated only at the expense of FGFA aircraft. The joint project will bring dividends not only to the armed forces, but also to the industry, primarily the HAL aircraft manufacturing corporation. The development and construction of a new fighter by the two countries will enable India to gain important experience, which is planned to be used in the future when creating the AMCA (Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft) aircraft. Thus, participation in the FGFA project will allow Indian designers to create their own fifth-generation fighter.

The position of the Indian Ministry of Defense and the aircraft industry is simple and clear: a joint project should be continued with the aim of updating the fleet of equipment and mastering new technologies. In the light of the position of the military department and aircraft manufacturers, the opinion of the command of the air force looks at least strange. The publication of the Business Standard, citing sources in the Indian Ministry of Defense, provides a possible reason for such disagreements. Not so long ago, India chose the winner in the MMRCA tender, whose goal is to purchase 126 new fighter jets. The best car in the competition was recognized as the French fighter Dassault Rafale. The total cost of 126 aircraft of this model is approximately 18 billion dollars. Probably, a gradual reduction in military spending could lead to the current situation, when the leadership of the Indian Air Force simply has to choose between purchasing existing aircraft and developing promising aircraft.

Russian and Indian aircraft manufacturers have repeatedly disclosed some details of the appearance of an FGFA aircraft. Some of their statements can be considered in some way a response to criticism from the Indian Air Force. For example, the AL-41FXNNXX engine currently used is a temporary solution. For the Russian fighter T-1 and its export version of FGFA, another engine is being developed. In addition, as part of the FGFA project, it is planned to create a new radar with a circular view. As for the relatively high cost of the finished aircraft, this is due to its class (heavy fighter) and the corresponding requirements.

The program to create a fifth-generation fighter FGFA is moving forward, and the latest statements by the leadership of the Indian Air Force can be linked to its current stage. Recall that in the fall of 2007, Russia and India signed an intergovernmental agreement, and in December of the following year, Rosoboronexport and HAL signed a general contract, which described the general principles of international cooperation. At the end of 2010, the parties signed a preliminary design agreement. By this time, the basic requirements for a promising aircraft were determined. In the middle of last year, preliminary design was completed, and negotiations are ongoing for a contract, the purpose of which will be the creation of a final project. Perhaps, the leaders of the Indian Air Force are trying to influence the decisions of the Ministry of Defense before signing the last contract, which will be followed by major financial investments.

India is currently planning to build an FGFA 144 fighter. Previously, the number of required aircraft of this type was estimated at over 210 units, but the financial restrictions of recent years have forced the Indian military to abandon these plans. The renewal of the Air Force - the purchase of French Dassault Rafale aircraft and the creation and subsequent construction of FGFA fighter jets - will have to spend approximately 25 billions of dollars. In the light of the possible continuation of a reduction in the military budget, such plans look extremely daring, and no one can yet guarantee that they will not have to be revised. This year is expected to sign a contract for basic engineering works. By the time this agreement appears, the parties must determine their plans and needs. In addition, by this time, the confrontation between the air force and the Ministry of Defense can be completed in alliance with aircraft manufacturers.


On the materials of the sites:
http://business-standard.com/
http://militaryparitet.com/
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/
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  1. Skarte
    Skarte 23 January 2014 08: 34
    +21
    Haha, they can’t get the technology, they decided to bargain with blackmail for their developments, but as it turned out without Russia they won’t be able to take over their project ... I don’t like our project, well, there is the F-35, now it’s certainly 100% ready .. .
    1. mirag2
      mirag2 23 January 2014 08: 40
      +3
      The Turks are interested for the same reasons (refusal to localize production in Turkey) were they going to buy Chinese systems instead of "Patriot"?
      1. sledgehammer102
        sledgehammer102 23 January 2014 09: 46
        +14
        Claims to it come down to three main points: firstly, the Russian side is reluctant to share important information; secondly, the proposed AL-41F1 engines are not sufficiently reliable, and are also only an upgrade of the AL-31F engines; thirdly, the FGFA fighter is too expensive.


        Sounds like a famous phrase "Give me some water to drink, otherwise I want to eat so much that there is nowhere to sleep".

        I don’t like it, forward and with the song to the Pentagon, they will deliver F-35 to you, he will also be scrap at the price of two PAK FA.
        1. Canep
          Canep 23 January 2014 10: 19
          0
          Something I do not catch up with, what is FGFA such, PAK FA T-50 or what?
          1. Grenader
            Grenader 23 January 2014 10: 29
            +4
            Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft - this is what FGFA is - the name of PAKFA in the Indian manner i.e. this development is listed there under that name.
          2. vvp2412
            vvp2412 23 January 2014 11: 35
            +4
            This is a type of stripped down, export version of T50.
          3. just exp
            just exp 23 January 2014 13: 34
            +4
            2 local version of the T-50 adapted for Indians.
            1. tilovaykrisa
              tilovaykrisa 23 January 2014 17: 52
              +1
              Adaptation consists in the removal of all REO and the installation of mechanics and lamps?
              Hindu partners are reliable all the same, and it’s better not to lose them; it’s better to let India’s technology move than China and I have at least no territorial disputes with the Hindus.
              1. Refund_SSSR
                Refund_SSSR 25 January 2014 14: 31
                0
                Quote: tilovaykrisa
                Reliable partners

                Tfu Tfu Tfu ... Three times to cross, sprinkle with holy water, bow to the icons!
                Are Hindus Reliable? What kind of beast is this? Reliable Hindu? there are definitely no such people in nature ...
                Nevertheless, they (or rather their money) saved our defense industry
        2. AVV
          AVV 23 January 2014 12: 35
          +2
          They trade like women in the market, they themselves would do something for the project! And therefore they discussed the sketch in order to satisfy all the requirements, and the higher the requirements, the higher the price !!!
          1. Rustam
            Rustam 23 January 2014 12: 53
            +10
            Women in the market? Well, well. Have you heard such a rule, the Client is always right, or have you forgotten the 90s? You can snort, like all go to the forest
            --------------------
            Wrong position

            It is necessary to respect the main partner and reassure us by promising the golden mountains, but you can’t throw it away, because India and their money saved the military-industrial complex in difficult times (China, too, but with benefit and copying) and gave a ticket to the new models that Armenia is currently purchasing .

            -SU-30MKI-SU-30SM
            -T-90s-T-90a
            -MIG-29K / CUB-MIG-29K / CUB
            Frigates 11356
            -KRC "Uran-E

            And much more, including work on Vicra
            1. VAF
              VAF 23 January 2014 13: 11
              +2
              Quote: Rustam
              Women in the market? Well, well. Have you heard such a rule, the Client is always right, or have you forgotten the 90s? You can snort, like all go to the forest


              No Rustam! This is "urya-patriotism" .. "rushing" "throwing hats into the air" wassat (soon the truth will run out .. they will go .. the caps "(quote from the classics, for those who know, who shouted hurray and who threw caps into the air (sky)) wassat
              I will not write anything, because you correctly stated everything, + !! drinks

              Here are just a photo .. for contrast .. about the "workdays" .. so to speak, who is smart. That will see everything himself. But for those who are in the "tank" and .. "doneunas" wassat explaining something .. a waste of time soldier



              Of course, it was possible to show any plane, but .. it seems that the Penguin on the tests is the same wink

              1. iwind
                iwind 23 January 2014 15: 24
                +2
                Most of all in the F-35 program, I like its openness.
                If not mistaken, this F-35 for the Netherlands

                About the new.
                F-35 pilots began testing the helmet with a third generation display system (HMDS).
                Last summer, for the F-35 program, a night vision camera was tested with 11 ISIE sensors in a modified Gen 2 helmet (second generation 10). We tested the system in high and low light conditions.
                About the problem, a delay in the output of the image.

                “The response time of the Gen 2 system when outputting DAS images — measured in milliseconds — was not a system problem. Pilots simply did not have the ability to use the entire array of DAS sensors during flight tests. Test pilots felt the delay and the effect of jittering in the image on the F-35 border flight regimes that were not approved for training. ” They solved the problem by integrating micro inertial units and filtering algorithms in HMDS, thereby eliminating the delay effect and jitter.
                1. Voronbit
                  Voronbit 25 January 2014 08: 21
                  0
                  the delay is not removed, only dragee
              2. viktorR
                viktorR 23 January 2014 19: 54
                +5
                I guess I'm not in the subject, and what is wrong with these two photos? Clear, help get out of the tank!
              3. Voronbit
                Voronbit 25 January 2014 07: 11
                +1
                Well, explain to non-tankers (I respect tankers) ..... as I understand it, there are questions about the engines of the first stage ... then this and the signal of visibility ... the flashlight is not a problem, ours is cheaper and not worse, but about- 35? you don’t say A? B? C?
            2. Rakti-kali
              Rakti-kali 23 January 2014 14: 10
              +5
              Quote: Rustam
              Main partner must be respected.

              Respect should be mutual.
              1. Voronbit
                Voronbit 25 January 2014 07: 16
                0
                We respect and do it based on their experience ... and we’ve bypassed a couple of rakes already
              2. Voronbit
                Voronbit 25 January 2014 07: 17
                0
                Man, believe me, and they respect us.
            3. Voronbit
              Voronbit 25 January 2014 07: 54
              0
              su-33 !!!!!!
        3. Skarte
          Skarte 23 January 2014 12: 38
          +8
          see the main interest of the Hindus engines, avionics, but rather engines, a glider can be drawn, but the engines are not so easy to copy-paste (as China has successfully proved) ... they all mediate the 5th generation national project, but engines for it no, so they need Russians like air ... Our smart ones don’t give))) from this the Indians are furious ... my purely personal opinion
        4. alone
          alone 23 January 2014 20: 18
          +4
          Quote: sledgehammer102
          It looks like the well-known phrase "Give water to drink, otherwise you want to eat so much that there is nowhere to spend the night."

          I don’t like it, forward and with the song to the Pentagon, they will deliver F-35 to you, he will also be scrap at the price of two PAK FA.


          I’m very sorry Pavel, did you fly on the F-35? Maybe you are a test pilot with the N-th number of sorties? Or maybe the head of the design bureau?
          It is unreasonable to call the F-35 a pile of scrap metal an extremely unprofessional approach with elements of cheers-patriotism. To slander the F-35 just because it is an American, unprofessional approach. Maybe Americans are dumb, but not so much.
        5. 31231
          31231 23 January 2014 21: 11
          +2
          According to Business Standard, during this event, representatives of the Indian Air Force sharply criticized the FGFA project.


          How can you take this delirium seriously? Not even the names and surnames of the officials who announced it. We also remember that some expert said that the Yaseny were too expensive submarines and unnecessary for the Defense Ministry. And all the "mega-editions" of this specialist were replicated. And here a similar edition writes for the "beauty of the word".
          Official Delhi said nothing ?! Then there is nothing to breed turbidity in our relations.
    2. vvp2412
      vvp2412 23 January 2014 11: 34
      +6
      Absolutely right! The "grandmothers" are always to blame for everything!
      Most likely, someone in the Air Force is warming his hands on a tender with rafal! So they do not want to collapse it!
    3. just exp
      just exp 23 January 2014 13: 39
      +3
      the Indians here are lying in full, it turns out that the T-50 has only one front-line radar, although everyone has already discussed 10 times that the T-50 will have 5 AFARs, and they will look in all directions.
      the picture shows only 3 radars, but there will be 5 in total.
      1. Voronbit
        Voronbit 25 January 2014 07: 51
        0
        they don’t lie, but they want to taste all our know-how
    4. Geisenberg
      Geisenberg 23 January 2014 14: 09
      +4
      Quote: Skarte
      Haha, they can’t get the technology, they decided to bargain with blackmail for their developments, but as it turned out without Russia they won’t be able to take over their project ... I don’t like our project, well, there is the F-35, now it’s certainly 100% ready .. .


      Quite true. In general, I do not understand the wording "share with difficulty" this type of storekeeper has to persuade for a long time ... not like asking for money from an ATM - of course he will give when you insert the card, but at first he will be silent for a long time and ignore the persuasion.

      Let them take the F35 in their own plane.
    5. tilovaykrisa
      tilovaykrisa 23 January 2014 17: 51
      +3
      There the price tag of space they will not pull f35.
      1. alone
        alone 23 January 2014 20: 22
        +3
        Indian Air Force officials criticized the FGFA project. Claims to it come down to three main points: firstly, the Russian side is reluctant to share important information; secondly, the proposed AL-41F1 engines are not reliable enough, and are also only a modernization of the AL-31F engines; thirdly, the FGFA fighter is too expensive. In the case of financing the development and construction of such aircraft, the Indian military will be forced to reduce other purchases.

        Once opposed to sell them the same instant-21. The Indians are just "aces" on these aircraft.
    6. bif
      bif 24 January 2014 05: 23
      0
      Quote: Skarte
      Haha technologists can't get

      The main thing is that they already had experience in transferring technologies, it turned out to be useless, because the roofing felts weren’t from there, the lacking gray matter. They handed over for the construction of their submarine, their tank ...
  2. Saburo
    Saburo 23 January 2014 08: 49
    +3
    By the way, the Indians initially refused FGFA, and stated that they were more interested in Lightning, although they hoped that the Americans would agree to sell them the Raptor. But the Americans certainly did not agree.
  3. Stiletto
    Stiletto 23 January 2014 08: 55
    +15
    Indians snickered. Half the country does not have cardboard boxes for TVs or refrigerators for housing, and take out the vimana with superpowers.
    1. vvp2412
      vvp2412 23 January 2014 11: 37
      +9
      it’s normal for them. They have a different mentality. For them, poverty is not a reason to put an end to life. They have the same caste. And from the caste in the bush does not go. Those. born in the caste of shit-cleaners, and you can’t become anything but a shit-cleaner!
      1. rolik
        rolik 23 January 2014 12: 08
        +3
        Quote: vvp2412
        Those. born in the caste of shit-cleaners, and you can’t become anything but a shit-cleaner!

        And you'll be looking at vimanas flying in the sky from a cesspool))))))))
        They don’t understand one thing, but they can understand it, but they don’t want to realize it. It is always cheaper to make it yourself, in the sense of money, purchased,
  4. P12P
    P12P 23 January 2014 09: 08
    +4
    Well, they have not yet learned how to steal technology as the Chinese)
    1. avt
      avt 23 January 2014 11: 00
      +6
      Quote: P12P
      Well, they have not yet learned how to steal technology as the Chinese)

      request And they really didn’t copy anything - proud however, after all, the custodians of the secret knowledge of flying vimanas, so secret that they themselves can not do anything. laughing They buy licenses or immediately try to make an airplane from scratch, but the latter, again in view of the fact that the vimans cannot decipher the kept secret, but it is shameful to learn how to be proud and ancient, it turns out a complete crap with the characteristics, at best, of the last century. So the "old song about the main thing" comes on - banal blackmail and extortion, and often on the pocket of quite specific "competent circles".
      1. rolik
        rolik 23 January 2014 12: 11
        +1
        Quote: avt
        They buy licenses or immediately try to make an airplane from scratch,

        By this they develop their design potential. The Chinese are following a simpler path, but will always have to go behind. Since only our own technologies and research guarantee new solutions. And if the rulers of a country that goes this way do not go to extremes, as happened with us. Development is increasing.
        1. avt
          avt 23 January 2014 13: 03
          +1
          Quote: rolik
          By this they develop their design potential.

          Something long since the creation of "Marut" by the Indians from the 3rd Reich, they have been growing their potential. After the war, after the war, we somehow figured out the Polovchas with trophies and their creators. Well, probably with the experience of manufacturing various airplanes under our and Western licenses, the potential " - they cannot figure it out. Or maybe they encrypted this “potential” by analogy with the secrets of the vimans and again cannot read it? laughing
  5. olegff68
    olegff68 23 January 2014 09: 31
    +1
    It began, although this should sooner or later be expected - whining and blackmail, in order to bring down the price and get more technology. Well, ours, too, were not made with a finger - they went through all this repeatedly and with tanks and ships.
  6. ShtyrliTTS
    ShtyrliTTS 23 January 2014 09: 38
    0
    The situation is similar to the story of f 35
  7. Grbear
    Grbear 23 January 2014 09: 59
    0
    Everything is fine - business and nothing personal.
  8. umah
    umah 23 January 2014 10: 05
    0
    Everything suits them, it's just undercover games.
  9. samoletil18
    samoletil18 23 January 2014 10: 11
    0
    Come on, there is a normal bargaining. Ours will move somewhere. Hindus will pay something extra. It should be borne in mind that today they want one thing, tomorrow another. Ours agreed with "Vikramaditya" - the Indians paid. It turned out longer and more expensive for India, for our reputational costs. Now, nobody wants to repeat the mistakes.
  10. Jurkovs
    Jurkovs 23 January 2014 10: 22
    0
    Started a price reduction company.
  11. Wiruz
    Wiruz 23 January 2014 10: 26
    +3
    Well, figs with them, hmm, they do not like them, you know. Let them buy penguins too. Dry, I think, they themselves are able to build an export version of the T-50, especially since there is someone to build it for.
    1. sergey72
      sergey72 23 January 2014 11: 32
      0
      Quote: Wiruz
      Well, figs with them, hmm, they do not like them, you know.

      That's right ... Now they will run into the question of critical technologies and guarantees of preserving the reputation with the paddling trees, then let them disentangle themselves ... I don’t like it
  12. ilya_oz
    ilya_oz 23 January 2014 10: 47
    +2
    Why would they transfer technology? Let's simplify the PAK FA, so it will be an export version. "In addition, within the framework of the FGFA project, it is planned to create a new radar station with a circular view." - Will their version have better radars than ours?
    1. Wiruz
      Wiruz 23 January 2014 11: 49
      +1
      I'm not special, but the PAK FA also seems to have a circular radar. Just the export option is probably not so far-sighted.
      1. Voronbit
        Voronbit 25 January 2014 07: 24
        +1
        .... and then AFAR is not the coolest thing .... there are systems that are not so expensive, but no less efficient
    2. Voronbit
      Voronbit 25 January 2014 07: 20
      0
      PAK FA has 50% of the surface - all kinds of sensors
  13. svskor80
    svskor80 23 January 2014 11: 46
    +2
    The Indians were apparently scared that they would put the AL-41F1 engine and the old radar into the export PAKFA, and so, in theory, they should do it, and decided to adhere to it at the same time and we will lower the price, we’ll take the technology.
    1. Voronbit
      Voronbit 25 January 2014 08: 01
      0
      this is a constant story-BRAHMOS, BRAHMOSII ... developments of the USSR in hypersound still give no one peace
  14. Nayhas
    Nayhas 23 January 2014 12: 01
    +3
    Wow, how many outraged ... Like, let the Indians get bogged down, we will create our own PAK-FA with "blackjack and prostitutes" ... Like money, the sea and 6 yards of American green is not an amount for us, but the signed commitments are empty for us ... Well -Well. At the same time, somehow everyone misses that the initiator of the rejection of FGFA is not the HAL corporation and the Indian Ministry of Defense, i.e. not those who will master considerable funds, but the Air Force, those who will have to fly and operate this product. So they screamed that for a lot of money they would receive a flying misunderstanding of the allegedly fifth generation ... As far as I understand, the representatives of the Air Force tried to get acquainted with the progress of work, but on uncomfortable questions such as a decrease in visibility, the quantity and quality of composite materials, engines, radars, etc. cost did not receive intelligible answers.
    I understand the fears of representatives of the Air Force, the project is being lobbied by the HAL corporation, which is already famous for the quality of the "licensed" production of aircraft that have already sent to the next world more than one Indian pilot, which is thirty! years gave birth to the unfortunate Tejas (despite the fact that the engine is not native) exceeding all mental and unthinkable terms and budgets, as a result, having received an aircraft whose cost exceeded the original one by 37%! FGFA Air Force will receive this year by 2040, while the cost will be under 200 million. dollars in quality from HAL corporation ...
    P.S .: regarding the following phrase:
    An unreliable engine, a new radar station and "raw" stealth elements were criticized.

    The author openly smoothed the corners, in the original:
    ... declared the FGFA's engine was unreliable, its radar inadequate, its stealth features badly engineered, ...

    Those. the FGFA engine is unreliable, the installed radar is insufficient (poor performance), the applied stealth technology is poorly thought out! Not "raw" stealth elements, but poorly designed ones!
    1. just exp
      just exp 23 January 2014 13: 37
      +1
      yes stupidly blackmail, or didn’t you read what they were like for Rafal? Do you want to say that Rafal is getting better than the T-50?
      and with engines and avionics and stealth?
      1. VAF
        VAF 23 January 2014 13: 55
        +1
        Quote: just explo
        Do you want to say that Rafal is getting better than the T-50?


        I will answer in a simple way! Just at the moment, Rafal is already there. but the prototypes of the T-50 .... so far only in trials soldier
      2. Nayhas
        Nayhas 23 January 2014 14: 29
        0
        Quote: just explo
        or didn’t you read what kind of Rafal they are?

        The budgets for Rafal and FGFA are completely different and unrelated. And even more so, the Indian Air Force leadership has nothing to do with them, this is the prerogative of the Ministry of Defense, which is behind the FGFA. The air forces are only interested in what their pilots will have to fly on.
  15. mihai_md2003
    mihai_md2003 23 January 2014 12: 32
    +1
    We need to take a break in the negotiations and make it clear that if necessary, we’ll finish everything ourselves, and then we will set the price we consider to be necessary, not much less than F 35. Let the market evaluate who and what offers them. If you need to shake a dozen oligarchs, they will easily fill up with the amount of the Indian order.
  16. 120352
    120352 23 January 2014 13: 13
    -1
    That's right guys! We don’t need aviation! And in general, no weapons are needed. Let's supply everyone around! And ours will wait. Our army is invincible, because it is impossible to defeat an army that does not exist !!!
  17. Urri
    Urri 23 January 2014 13: 29
    +2
    With the naked eye (without a glass), it is clear that someone in the Indian Air Force from "Rafale" was put in a drawer in the drawer. The time when Sukhoi needed India's money for development and survival is over. Now the T-50, and besides the Indians, even in a stripped-down version, will be torn off with hands if it is on sale. And this is not an F-35, this one is much cooler. If they want "Rafale" - let them. When they understand that the Chinese Air Force is covering them like a bull to a sheep, they will find the authors of the claims, the money for the purchase, and smiles on their faces. If you don't like it, do it yourself. Or ask the French. Maybe they will do it cheaper, which I personally doubt very much. A miser pays twice, a ram - three times, a goof - constantly.
    1. Nayhas
      Nayhas 23 January 2014 14: 33
      0
      Quote: Urri
      With the naked eye (without a glass), it is clear that someone in the Indian Air Force from "Rafale" was put in a drawer in the drawer.

      Yeah, you can’t imagine a more idiotic act ... You need to bribe the leadership of the Ministry of Defense, and bribed the leaders of the Air Force ...
  18. spirit
    spirit 23 January 2014 13: 53
    0
    That's right. Hindus do. For they understand who they are working with (for more than one year already), and so that they don’t push the bullshit you need to constantly push. With FGFA, they have no special options. Who else will sell them the 5th generation heavy fighter? The key phrase is HEAVY! F22 is not for sale, but 35 is not heavy. all other 5s have current in projects. But not from China, they will buy it laughing
  19. Kibalchish
    Kibalchish 23 January 2014 14: 25
    +3
    Well, to hell with them. Let them not buy.
  20. Urri
    Urri 23 January 2014 14: 26
    +3
    Quote: spirit
    so that they do not push bullshit you need to constantly push


    I do not mind. But it should be understood that

    Quote: spirit
    With FGFA, they have no special options.


    No matter how they are sent to the side, it is possible to transmit. Here you need to subtly feel the yield strength, and then leak. This is the first. Well, tryndet at a pressure about Superp Mega Hyper Rafal - only accelerate the first. This is the second.
  21. Boricello
    Boricello 23 January 2014 15: 13
    +2
    Hindus are the same gypsies. I speak with confidence because they rented a plant from us. Dirty, uncultured, cunning and dumb. Here is what I can say about them. Brrr ....
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 23 January 2014 15: 15
      +4
      Quote: Boricello
      Hindus are the same gypsies. I speak with confidence because they took a plant for rent from us

      Gypsies are a people who were long ago expelled from India. So you are almost right.
  22. lazy
    lazy 23 January 2014 15: 32
    +1
    I also think that this is a normal bargain, the main thing is not to react strongly and calmly bend your line
  23. Urri
    Urri 23 January 2014 15: 33
    +1
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    Gypsies are a people who were long ago expelled from India. So you are almost right.


    I always believed in it. One could not understand why exactly to us? Joke.

    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    Dirty, uncultured, cunning and dumb.



    For 25 years, one gypsy, nicknamed Graf, has been working on the assembly of truck cranes. it is difficult to find a more working, disciplined and principled employee. So maybe the wrong Indians work for you too
  24. anomalocaris
    anomalocaris 23 January 2014 15: 48
    0
    Quote: Urri
    For 25 years, one gypsy, nicknamed Graf, has been working on the assembly of truck cranes. it is difficult to find a more working, disciplined and principled employee. So maybe the wrong Indians work for you too

    What cranes?
  25. Urri
    Urri 23 January 2014 16: 00
    0
    Quote: anomalocaris
    What cranes?


    Jib automobile on the MAZ chassis. Yesterday, he collected the military (for discharge cargo) under an export contract. It's all.
  26. Tan4ik
    Tan4ik 23 January 2014 18: 11
    +3
    In general, they are insolent! And so they themselves did not really do the trip, but they criticize what they are superior at times. If you wrote something wrong, justify.
  27. Grif
    Grif 23 January 2014 18: 34
    +3
    On the same site I met the phrase: avaricious pays twice, stupid three times. Hindus always pay. It was about guided shells of Russian production. Here, apparently, the same story.
  28. EvilLion
    EvilLion 23 January 2014 18: 56
    0
    Let them show how it is necessary, something to us. With or without India, we will do it anyway.
  29. lpd1
    lpd1 23 January 2014 18: 59
    +2
    And Wiman wants to get both technology and now-how, and even sit on the seat wink
    It seems that the Indians have already outwitted themselves No. Many have lost the desire to participate in many years of Hindu games-tenders wink
  30. supertiger21
    supertiger21 23 January 2014 22: 03
    +1
    According to experts, India will receive our T-50s only from 2022. A contract for Rafal has not yet been signed. One of the reasons for the delay in signing the contract was that the main Indian negotiator for the purchase of 2013 French fighters died in 126. They suggest that the first Rafal will not be in the Indian Air Force until 2017.
  31. Tron
    Tron 23 January 2014 22: 44
    +2
    Doesn't India often run into our military equipment in recent years? Either they do not like the T-90, because the Arjun is worse than theirs, the Smerch MLRS is screwing up, the Il-76 refueling aircraft are not satisfied with something, and half of the 2 thousand Russian air-to-air missiles RVV-AE, with which India is armed with all major Russian-made fighters, is a marriage. Now the PAK FA does not satisfy them. Not a good trend, however.
  32. bandabas
    bandabas 23 January 2014 22: 55
    +1
    The Indian elephant is the younger brother of the Russian elephant.
    1. Snoop
      Snoop 23 January 2014 23: 03
      +1
      But nonche the Indian elephant became more moody))
  33. Salamander
    Salamander 24 January 2014 20: 50
    0
    It reminds me a lot of one joke:

    The crew returned from the flight, where there was the first Vietnamese astronaut. He is being interviewed:
    - You are the first cosmonaut of Vietnam, what are your impressions of space?
    “Oh, the cosmos is nice, there are beautiful stars around the star, and the buttons on the rocket are beautiful ...”
    “Why do you have such blue hands?” Is it from overload?
    - But the Russian is hitting me on the hands, everything is hitting me too: - Nothing, narrow-eyed, do not touch here!

    Only in place of the Vietnamese is an Indian ...
  34. Voronbit
    Voronbit 25 January 2014 07: 44
    0
    zadolbali about f-35 talk .... read! in no version does anyone need it for such money, but I don’t say a J-type versatile person like f-22, t-50, only 3 or 4 countries will be pulled (for now), and they don’t need any other countries, .. .