Battle of history. On the need to introduce the Russian (Slavic) concept of history

219
Battle of history. On the need to introduce the Russian (Slavic) concept of history

Battle for history Russia continues. The question of the inadmissibility of attempts to distort the history of our Motherland was raised by President Vladimir Putin. Almost simultaneously, historians of Tatarstan stated that almost all of their proposals on a Russian textbook were included in the final version, which was presented to the court of the Russian president.

During the meeting of Russian President Vladimir Putin with the developers of the concept of a new educational and methodological complex on the history of the Fatherland, one of the leading themes was the inadmissibility of attempts to distort the history of Russia. According to the President of the Russian Federation, the very need to create a single textbook on the history of Russia was associated with the presence of a significant number of works that contain “ideological garbage”. As a result, schools received educational literature that contained such things that are “absolutely unacceptable” for Russia and the people and, in fact, insult Russian citizens.

Vladimir Putin drew attention to the fact of reducing the contribution of the Soviet people in the fight against fascism. At the same time, the president said that attempts to introduce “some kind of uniformity in thinking and evaluation” are not in question. He also urged not to refuse to work with foreign researchers: “Together we can develop the most objective approaches to the estimates.”

Thus, we see a clear duality. The president acted on the principle "both ours and yours". And he does this quite often. On the one hand, Vladimir Putin is right: all attempts to distort the history of Russia must be firmly stopped. The historical (chronological) priority of managing society is one of the highest. With the help of history, it is possible to bring up whole generations of “Ivanov who do not remember kinship,” to carry out a “recoding” of the matrix of entire branches of a single superethnos Rus. As already reprogrammed a significant part of the Rus (Russians) Little Russia (Ukraine). Several centuries of “cultural cooperation” and information warfare, which the Vatican, Austria-Hungary, Germany, Poland and the Anglo-Saxons waged against Russian civilization, led to the creation of the “Ukrainian people”. The current events in Kiev are one of the consequences of this process. It is impossible to allow the geopolitical opponent to “work” with the population, instill in it alien values, distorted knowledge.

Putin is fully right in the fact that it is impossible to downplay the role of the Soviet people and the USSR in World War II. The “black myths” about the Great War literally flooded the minds of Russians. Here and detachments, who shot their own, and terrible enkavedeshniki and Smerzhevtsy, who in vain mocked ordinary soldiers and commanders, and "corpses filled up," and "children saboteurs," and much more.

On the other hand, the words about “ideological garbage” are doubtful. If the new history textbook of Russia removes the liberal nonsense of the 1990-2000-s sample - great. Indeed, almost all the “ideological rubbish” in the history books was introduced during the existence of the Russian Federation, partly in the years of “perestroika”. It was during this period that Russia was subtly destroyed by information, ideological and historical weapons.

However, if the authors of the new textbook launch another campaign for desovietization and de-Stalinization, then the picture will come out grim. After all, the Soviet project is a model to which modern Russia should strive. It is clear that the USSR was not an ideal state, but there was never such a thing on the planet. Man and human society are subjective in nature. But it was the Stalinist USSR that gave all mankind hope for a different future than the one that the “architects” of the West and their clients are building on the periphery of the “developed world”.

Putin’s words about the absence of attempts to introduce “some kind of uniformity in thinking and evaluations” and the need to work together with foreign colleagues and the possibility to work together to develop the most objective approaches is even more doubtful. After all, a single history textbook of Russia, which can educate young people with patriots of Russia, is just necessary. Only a single ideology and history can make the nation strong, able to withstand external and internal threats. There should be no discord and vacillation. History should foster a sense of national pride.

Arguments about the need for "collaboration" with foreign colleagues - stupidity and strategic error. Historical science in the West, and in the East, always fulfills an ideological order. The method of "cultural cooperation" is a way of "information capture" of a foreign territory. At the same time, the western "partners" are recruiting a kind of Russian scientists. Trips abroad, conferences, grants, awards, publications, popularity - these are “gingerbread”. Part of the Russian scientists is being incorporated into a kind of “mafia” that controls the population through the introduction of false historical concepts. They are introducing ideas about the "secondary" of Russia in relation to European civilization, constant borrowing, the need to repent for the "historical crimes" of the Russian (Soviet) colonialists, Ivan the Terrible, Peter the Great, Catherine II, Stalin and other Russian emperors and statesmen, generals. Therefore, "foreign colleagues" on the cannon shot can not be allowed to Russian history.

The mite in creation of the uniform textbook have brought and scientists of Tatarstan. Scientists of Tatarstan declare that practically all their proposals on the all-Russian textbook were approved by the commission of Sergey Naryshkin and entered into the final version, which was submitted to the Russian president. According to the authors of the amendments, all of them will be approved and will be included in the final version of the textbook.

Thus, soon the well-known concept of the “Tatar-Mongolian yoke” will become a thing of the past, and students will learn a different “Tatar component” of the history of Russia. The term "Mongol-Tatar yoke" will be replaced by a politically correct one - "dependence on the Golden Horde." Also among the innovations is mentioned the Soviet poet, Hero of the Soviet Union Musa Jalil, who in German captivity created an underground group and was preparing an uprising, but the Gestapo revealed the underground workers, they were executed. They will also tell students about the contribution of the first President of Tatarstan M. Shaimiev, etc.

It must be said that here one can note both a positive start and a negative one. The term "Tatar-Mongol yoke" really does not correspond to historical reality. There were no "Mongols" in the territory of Russia and Eastern Europe. There are no anthropological, genetic and cultural traces of the “Mongols” (Mongoloids). Russian researchers have already destroyed the concept of the conquest of Russia by the “Mongols”, who came from Mongolia on their horses. Prior to this, the semi-wild shepherds allegedly smashed China, Khorezm and many other strong states. This issue is discussed in more detail in a series of articles. Russian land before the Batu invasion. The problem of the "Mongol" invasion of Russia.

An alternative version is becoming more and more interesting, according to which the invasion of Batu's army into Russia was connected with the process of internal “showdowns” within the Northern Power, the heiress of the Skifo-Sarmatian empire. Rus (Russians) and "Tatars" were the direct heirs of this empire. And those and others were Caucasians (representatives of the white race). There was a struggle between the various centers of the northern power, which passed the next stage of internal instability. At first, the Horde triumphed with its capital in Sarai. However, the process of Islamization of the “ulus Juchi” caused an internal split of the empire and its degradation. This led to the gradual strengthening of Moscow, to which “Tatars” began to move to the service. As a result, under Ivan the Terrible, the empire regained power over most of the former possessions, and Moscow was already the center of power. In this context, Russia-Russia has a history of many thousands of years, and the direct ancestors of the Rus are Sarmatians, Scythians, Cimmerians and arias (Indo-Europeans).

It is also necessary to take into account that the Kazan Tatars, like the Chuvash, are descendants of the tribal union of the Bulgarians. And the Volga Bulgaria during the war with the “Mongols”, which lasted from 1223 to 1240, suffered a historic defeat. "Mongolian" troops completely destroyed the entire Volga-Kama Bulgaria, and its territory became part of the Golden Horde. Therefore, the attempts of some Tatar nationalists to lean against the glory of Genghis Khan and Batu look miserable. Volga Bulgaria was the victim of a confrontation in northern Eurasia, and trying to transfer it backdating to the camp of the winners is clearly a bad idea.

In general, the attempts of local scientists, representatives of small nations to revise the history of Russia in their favor should be treated very carefully. The ideological discord of the last decades and the active work of representatives of the Western and Islamic projects in Russia have led many representatives of the local intelligentsia to work consciously or unconsciously against Russian civilization. Suffice it to recall the claims of “innocently repressed peoples” during the years of the Great Patriotic War, such as Chechens or Crimean Tatars.

You can agree with Anatoly Wassermanwho suggested that a history textbook that will satisfy most citizens of the Russian Federation can be done quite quickly. It is enough to take a Soviet history textbook and slightly “clean” it from Marxism-Leninism. And this material can be the basis for the upbringing and education of the patriots of Russia. It is also necessary to throw out all the “ideological garbage” that was littered with history during the years of “perestroika” and the domination of liberal values. Further, it will be possible to improve the history textbook through clarifications based on recent discoveries. And for this, Russia needs an analogue of the German Ancestral Heritage, but without mystical and occult nonsense.

The concept of the history of Russia should be expanded at the expense of the Sarmatian, Scythian, Cimmerian and Aryan (Pre-Slavic) periods. The Slavic (Russian) concept of history, which was defended by Lomonosov, Lyzlov, Tatishchev, Veltman, Gedeonov, Lyubavsky, Ilovaisky, Petukhov and many other devotees, should become prevalent in Russia.
219 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. Yoshkin Kot
    -2
    22 January 2014 08: 43
    "yawn" what's the difference? "Tatar" Russian history? or "Judeo-Marxist"? or "Judeo-New Pagan"? Forgive God, one and the same Russophobic
  2. Christian
    +18
    22 January 2014 09: 00
    Putin is a supporter of pluralism in everything and in history and ideology in particular. The author is right — no pluralism is needed in such areas and is extremely harmful — there is enough disorder and vacillations in our society! Only one story and ideology is the way of Russia !!!
    1. -9
      22 January 2014 09: 22
      There is no pluralism. smile All this is in words, it is necessary to judge by deeds, and they are known "Russian" 282 article, the extinction of the Russian people, the liberal economy, the government, the slops corrupting the people in all the mass media, the settling of Russia by foreigners, stupid Soviet national policy, so he gets confused in the testimony (an amazing match of his surname Putin-confused). You will see the Tatar version will go down in history, and the Russian "ideological rubbish" will be thrown away, in general ...
      1. +4
        22 January 2014 09: 33
        I agree. In words: - "it is not permissible to distort history", in fact it is not clear what is a distortion and which history should not be distorted, and which story to take as a basis, in this situation, it is possible to take the story invented by Rezun (Suvorov) as a basis and not allow its distortion, he, by the way, does not belittle the role of the Soviet people in the defeat of fascism. The idea of ​​pluralism is incompatible with the principle of not distorting history, since any alternative point of view is a distortion of history.
        1. Luzhichanin
          +33
          22 January 2014 09: 47
          Judging by the way the public reacts to lies about Stalin's times, I think they will not lie much about this in the textbook, so as not to provoke. But in earlier periods of history myths will be reinforced among the people ... For example: about the Romanovs and, in particular, about "Peter 1." This is exactly what the cycle of events and programs dedicated to the anniversary of the coming to power of the Romanovs showed.
          But even Lomonosov beat Miller for a lie about our history.
          1. +31
            22 January 2014 10: 46
            It is deadly for Russia to attract the Geyropeytsy to our history, they have always belittled and insulted our Motherland.
            1. +20
              22 January 2014 10: 53
              Putin is a supporter of pluralism in everything and in history and ideology in particular. The author is right - in such areas no pluralism is needed and extremely harmful ...

              In the scientific field, pluralism is REQUIRED. In the field of education, pluralism is UNACCEPTABLE.
            2. +7
              22 January 2014 23: 57
              Let the President attract foreign scientists to create his own biography, and the history of Russia must be written by Russian scientists without the "help" of European scientists! They will paint ... an oil painting! Lomonosov beat their faces insolent and we must do the same! Today, apart from humiliation, we have not seen and will not see anything worthwhile from Euro-ass scientists.
              1. 0
                23 January 2014 20: 47
                It is necessary to show full "reciprocity" to European historians - not only to beat their "filthy muzzles", but, which is no less important, to humiliate them in the same way! .. - And historical justice will prevail!
          2. +3
            22 January 2014 10: 56
            Quote: Luzhichanin
            But in earlier periods of history myths will be reinforced among the people ... For example: about the Romanovs and, in particular, about "Peter 1." This is exactly what the cycle of events and programs dedicated to the anniversary of the coming to power of the Romanovs showed.

            These are the myths, and do not wonder why ?! Almost the entire Romanov dynasty was pro-Western, they are ideologically (!) Close. Already all the favorites of Tsar Alexei Mikhailovich are Westerners, and then there is a continuous pro-Western aspiration of the "elites", so they even spoke Russian worse than French. The reign of Alexander III and Nicholas II may be an exception, but there were no coordinating decisions, no imminent contradictions in society, they froze a little, and then everything floated.
            1. Christian
              0
              22 January 2014 11: 09
              All of them were patriots of Great Russia!
            2. Luzhichanin
              +1
              22 January 2014 14: 23
              Quote: Orik
              and why not think ?!

              So why think, and so it is clear that in the WESTERN people of power fell ... They are sorry ... they could not resist the temptation.
            3. -2
              22 January 2014 20: 56
              What nonsense. The Romanovs were not pro-Western, otherwise they would not have created an empire that the West was trying to destroy, because we had foreigners in our service, so there were enough newcomers everywhere.
              1. 0
                22 January 2014 22: 25
                For a start, better study the history, otherwise it seems like one TV set ...
                1. -1
                  23 January 2014 20: 17
                  If you are me, I have been reading historical literature since I was 7 years old, I suggest thinking, and not believing Putin, and for whom much of the past is not relevant since, according to his version, Russia is not for Russians.
          3. saber1357
            +2
            23 January 2014 00: 48
            Yes, and also the Tatar scientists proved that there was no Tatar-Mongol yoke (almost quoted the article). I don’t know if they, the compilers of the textbook, will listen to such advice, they will prove many other things - for example, from the series "British scientists have proved that Russia, in essence, does not exist, there is only Tatarstan." This is all Wahhabi stuff, most likely, I don't know for sure, but it smells of this hypocritical Salafism ("oh, the main thing is that the Tatars do not take offense, but nothing that they sold hundreds of thousands of Russians in slave markets, this is a matter of everyday life").
        2. +2
          22 January 2014 13: 19
          The author Samsonov Alexander, how can you not mention Fomenko A.T. Ko, a scientist who gave almost half his own life studying the history of the World, showing a lot of inconsistencies, or rather poking you in the nose with facts of falsification of history. And even after that you can’t see the elephant in front of your shop . you just blah blah blah
          1. legionary
            +2
            22 January 2014 21: 21
            I’m not a historian, but my opinion is that the theory of A.T. Fomenko and Co. deserves attention, but it’s not worth the truth in the last episode, for example, the chronicler writes the story of some event, and what do you think he will rely on when writing. what volume and style of description he will adhere to, of course, written earlier material, that is, in the image and likeness of previous records adjusted for the time and characters of his time.
            1. 0
              23 January 2014 11: 10
              Thanks for attention
      2. A.YARY
        +10
        22 January 2014 11: 02
        IT IS NECESSARY TO ENTER YOUR RUSSIAN HISTORY TEXTBOOK ARCHIVELY AND URGENTLY.
        The president here is not an assistant to us, but rather an adversary.
        1. +12
          22 January 2014 13: 21
          The president here is not an assistant to us, but rather an adversary ..... Here you are right namesake .. with the help of the Unified State Examination all education is destroyed, what’s the story, current high school students don’t know either Stalin or Lenin, or when the war started ... for that Sure that the Americans won ... the wife at the college teaches, in horror what they come after school ....
      3. +8
        22 January 2014 18: 39
        There will be no Russians, there will be no RUSSIA !!!
        1. legionary
          -5
          22 January 2014 21: 25
          Quote: an-sar
          There will be no Russians

          Who is stopping the Russians from multiplying and multiplying, doesn’t the president have it?
          Quote: an-sar
          there will be no RUSSIA !!!

          I agree, but do not forget that Russia is a FEDERATION, NOT a REPUBLIC!
      4. +4
        22 January 2014 20: 25
        The Russian question was nearly solved by Eltsin, even from ten years of Eltsyn’s rule, and the next generation would speak a different language.
      5. Horde
        +6
        22 January 2014 20: 27
        The alternative version, according to which the invasion of the Batu army to Russia was connected with the process of internal "squabbles" inside the Northern Power, the heiress of the Scythian-Sarmatian empire, is becoming more and more interesting. Rus (Russian) and "Tatars" were the direct heirs of this empire.


        it’s time so already already venerable to stop separating the Scythians and Slavs, as different nations, such a story looks stupid.

        Therefore, "foreign colleagues" in a cannon shot should not be allowed into Russian history.


        fine, absolutely true, there are no HISTORIANS OF INTERNATIONALISTS, but only their own lure writers on a small town king or fulfilling an order of someone else's HOLY SPIRITUAL CONSISTORY.
        We do not need THEIR services ...
        I do not expect ANYTHING FROM the new textbook until THESE at the helm, fundamentally, nothing changes ...
      6. +2
        22 January 2014 20: 27
        But what Putin said about the Battle of Kulikovo, I’m talking about the history of Russia from the Aryan tribes and Tartaria
        1. 0
          22 January 2014 23: 01
          Thanks for the clip. Your president is 100% president. A clever man and I don’t understand those who are kicking him in the net ... well, except for trolls, I see.
          1. +1
            23 January 2014 07: 51
            we always had a king, he’s a national leader, undermine faith in the king, then society can also be undermined, therefore the enemy will always pour slop on our leaders, and lie, lie, lie, lie constantly and without any twinge of conscience.
    2. Luzhichanin
      +11
      22 January 2014 09: 39
      Quote: Samsonov Alexander
      The concept of the history of Russia should be expanded at the expense of the Sarmatian, Scythian, Cimmerian and Aryan (Pre-Slavic) periods. The Slavic (Russian) concept of history, which was defended by Lomonosov, Lyzlov, Tatishchev, Veltman, Gedeonov, Lyubavsky, Ilovaisky, Petukhov and many other devotees, should become prevalent in Russia.
      True says Comrade Samsonov.
      Now "lovers of history" will come running in and tell us tales about the great migrations of peoples, mainly of the Turks fellow Pan-Turkism rules hi laughing
      1. +8
        22 January 2014 12: 26
        And you laugh in vain, because the migration of peoples was. Remember the Huns (Huns), because they somehow got from the territory of Mongolia where they lived in the second century before Rome.
        Remember the history of Rome, how they were torn apart by barbarians, aliens, and Ostrogoths. Visigoths, Alemans, Huns, Galas. Then, after all, there were no peoples, it is not better to say the nation what everybody looks like now.
        There were no Kazakhs, Russians, Italians, English. There were tribes that mixed. or from which they left. This is a complex and big process.
        After all, I hope you know how, for example, the Indians appeared in North America?
        it’s proven that they came from Asia, yes, yes, so many thousands of kilometers traveled. Look for example at Yakut and Eskimo Canada, one to one.
        The islands of a quiet window were also inhabited by people from Asia, thousands of nautical miles sailed on boats, a long time ago, which was proved by the Heyerdahl tour. and the Indians of South America are different from the Indians of North.
        You see, if it’s hard to understand something in history, this does not mean that it didn’t. The origin of heat was discovered only a century ago or a half. Shine.

        As for pan-Turkism, I do not believe in such a thing, the land of Kazakhstan was inhabited by various tribes from ancient times who spoke from Indo-Iranian to Turkic-Mongolian. Therefore, for example, Kazakhs are woven from different nations. But I know for sure that all Turkic-speaking people were different and are different now, both in appearance according to other criteria like culture, customs and way of life.

        Before the arrival of the Mongols, the south of Kazakhstan was Khorezm, everyone dressed and spoke like Khiva and Kokand in the picture of Vereshchagig, and the Kipchaks lived in the northern regions, we have such a tribe now, but this does not mean that only they lived, Kipchaks this name, like Kazakhs , for there were many tribes in the composition. Also, for example, the Naimans and Argyns were part of the Mongols, although they fought against them at the beginning when they attacked Khorezm, and these plmens are now part of the Kazakhs.
        So the Kazakhs were against the Mongols does not sound true. For the tribes were both pros and cons. The same thing about the Russians.

        When Batu conquered Russia, there were cities that helped, and there were those who were against it. And this thesis about the Scythians as if there was a single empire, with the capital in the barn and then in Moscow, is it funny, is this not amateurism? Do you distinguish Russian from Mongol appearance? Russians descended from the Slavs, who lived northeast of Byzantium, converted to Christianity, took their names, and then were reborn into a powerful state in the 10 or 11 century, this sounds true. Then he joined neighboring countries.

        There was no united empire since ancient times. peoples lived side by side, which were different and are different now.
        1. Luzhichanin
          +4
          22 January 2014 14: 21
          Quote: Max_Bauder
          Are you laughing in vain?

          Not in vain, I state a fact: you and I think your colleagues will catch up - this is on the verge of a diagnosis: just like fanatics with foam at the mouth you prove ... trying to persuade us to believe in what we yourself were persuaded to believe, although maybe you get paid for it!
          1. -2
            22 January 2014 22: 38
            Quote: Luzhichanin
            this is already on the verge of diagnosis: just like fanatics with foam at the mouth prove ...

            Sadly, but fanatics are fans of the historical delights of Alexander Samsonov. How else can you call the fans of a man who draws inspiration from Nazi delights? "The legacy of the ancestors", we need, you see, without occult nonsense. Yeah, with historical nonsense in my head, some of the cases can be heaped too.
          2. 0
            24 January 2014 15: 42
            You beat around the bush, but you just can't say

            ... talk about what he was thinking. and he thought about what I thought ... laughing

            What should I understand from this? express the idea correctly, and we will discuss, amicably and politely smile
        2. +3
          22 January 2014 16: 50
          Quote: Luzhichanin
          although maybe you get paid for it!

          Well, how does the "colleague" feel?
          Here you are not here - here you will quickly lose the habit of drinking vodka and disgrace disgrace.
          laughing
          There is a paradigm _ Whoever is not with us is against us - who is not with us. And the subject of discussion is not important!
          wink
        3. Besoffner
          +12
          22 January 2014 17: 21
          Tell me, dear comrade from independent Kazakhstan. Here are the Huns and Mongols - nomadic tribes. They lived for themselves as their ancestors, in separate groups of 20-30 people. A large group is difficult to feed, or rather, more difficult to feed horses for a larger number of people. And for some reason, all of a sudden these nomads united in a hundred thousandth army and, together with their families, moved 10 km from the halo of their habitat. What fed the horses? And what did horses eat in winter? I could agree with the idea that the horses dug up the snow and ate the surviving grass, but ... I don’t know how in Mongolia, but in the territory of canonical Russia the height of the snow cover can reach 3 meters. And if during the winter there were thaws, such an ice shell forms - it can only be taken with steel scrap.
          The invasion of Batu himself took place in the winter. They walked along the frozen riverbeds. But this is exactly the way the Russians act. In the summer, there was no time for Russians - sowing, harvesting, stocking up supplies for the winter. But in the winter it’s just to make a nefig, and they were going to ratify, go to fight enemies, and just rob the neighbors. But the steppes - they went hiking in the summer. We recall the Crimean Khanate. Why in the summer ??? but because we have horses fed on oats, and among the steppes on the steppe grass, they are smaller and weaker than Russians, therefore walking in the snow is worse. And the Russians are busy in the summer with sowing / harvesting, because they cannot set up strong barriers, it is better to fight Russians in the summer.
          1. -2
            22 January 2014 21: 04
            Why on earth do nations unite in states ?! No wonder. Feed?! also not surprising, you can take the reserves plus rob the population that you enslave. In short, stop distorting history as Putinists. There was a story before 1991 and everything here does not need to be rewritten.
          2. 0
            24 January 2014 15: 39
            My dear dude! Have you been to Astana in winter? or in Ust-Kamenogorsk?

            Know that winter is fierce in the steppes than in the forests of Ryazan and Vladimir. Just the same, Russian horses do not hold out even a month in the steppes of Mongolia, when there is not even a stall, especially on oats laughing where will you find her there ??. Buranas are even here in Kazakhstan, of course ... you’re fucking, not like Mongolia.

            As for the army, why are you surprised at the 120 thousandth army of the Mongols, when Napoleon from the Bois de Boulogne (read almost from the shore of the Atlantic Ocean) brought to you 1812m 600 thousand troops, his army that fed the air ??? so do not be surprised if the supply is well developed and not such trips to do.

            What about Macedonian? he will have fewer horses than infantry, which means mobility is also lost, but he managed to get to India. Not surprising?

            That's the tact, I say again if you don’t understand it doesn’t mean that there is no solution (as the math teacher used to say) smile
            1. 0
              24 January 2014 16: 31
              Quote: Max_Bauder
              Know that winter is fierce in the steppes than in the forests of Ryazan and Vladimir.

              Yes, as if we ourselves are from Omsk.
              Quote: Max_Bauder
              Buranas are even here in Kazakhstan, of course ... you’re fucking, not like Mongolia.

              The conversation was actually about the depth of the snow cover, it’s kind of different.
              By the way, the depth of snow can not be reviewed! Do you know how many candidate and doctoral degrees are written on them? It’s better not to know, we’ll sleep better!
              In a battle, meteorologists VS historians would put on meteorologists, they always manage to dodge!
              Quote: Max_Bauder
              brought to you 1812m 600 thousand troops, his army that fed air?

              Do you even understand what kind of argument you used? Your level of knowledge is phenomenal!
              Napoleon lost in Russia about 580 thousand soldiers. These losses include 200 thousand killed, from 150 to 190 thousand prisoners, about 130 thousand deserters,


              Quote: Max_Bauder
              managed to reach india. Not surprising?

              It 'warm over there .
            2. 0
              25 January 2014 18: 30
              No wonder Napoleon said the war should feed itself. Those. invaders as a rule feed at the expense of those territories in which they are waging a war this is not new. Fodder and food, so finding the conquered is not a problem. This is also confirmed by the fact that in history there are a lot of cases (for example, led by. Resettlement of peoples) when mass armies invaded somewhere (Greco-Persian wars). Banal robbery of the conquered.
          3. +1
            24 January 2014 19: 34
            Quote: Besoffner
            Here are the Huns and Mongols - nomadic tribes. They lived for themselves as their ancestors, in separate groups of 20-30 people. A large group is difficult to feed, or rather, harder to feed horses for more people

            You yourself came up with this to justify your subsequent statement that there is nothing to feed horses in winter. And in the summer, too, there is nothing, if you think, because the nomads live in small groups so as not to die of hunger. But if you follow this logic, then neither the Scythians, nor the Sarmatians, nor the Huns could not assemble large troops. And they did not go on military campaigns, and so, horses were stolen from neighbors.
            Quote: Besoffner
            I could agree with the idea that the horses dug up the snow and ate the surviving grass, but ... I don’t know how in Mongolia, but in the territory of canonical Russia the height of the snow cover can reach 3 meters. And if during the winter there were thaws, such an ice shell forms - it can only be taken with steel scrap.

            Your fantasy knows no bounds laughing Well, okay, about three meters I still agree. In very warm winters, it is also possible in ravines. But about the thaw and the scrap for breaking the crust - this is something from epic epics. "There are only mountains above us, only my balls are cooler than us!" laughing By the way, the greater snow cover is compensated by more abundant grass cover in comparison with the Mongolian steppes. Yes, and the thrifty local population can be shocked.
            Quote: Besoffner
            The invasion of Batu himself took place in the winter. They walked along the frozen riverbeds. But this is exactly the way the Russians act.

            In those days, this is the mode of action in Russia by any sensible leader of the cavalry army. In the summer, there is no maneuver and a large fleet is needed, because you have to move along the rivers. The Crimean Tatars, like the Pechenegs and Polovtsy, went to raids more often and did not want to freeze at all, all the same, southerners. The Mongols are from Eastern Siberia, if you know the geography and came not just a raid. They were just looking for a meeting with the whole army in order to solve the question whose letter was longer at once.

            Quote: Max_Bauder

            Know that winter is fierce in the steppes than in the forests of Ryazan and Vladimir. Just the same, Russian horses do not hold out even a month in the steppes of Mongolia, when there is not even a stall, especially on oats

            Well, where we do not. With normally organized intelligence, engineering services and logistics, any winter can be survived. And Russians - that people, that horses outlive anyone in any territory, so far the will of the political leadership.
        4. -2
          22 January 2014 19: 13
          It is also necessary to take into account that the Kazan Tatars, like the Chuvash, are descendants of the tribal union of the Bulgars.
          These descendants of one tribal union, to put it mildly, strongly dislike each other.
    3. +23
      22 January 2014 09: 44
      It is important who will approve this single concept ?!
      Our President repented of the execution of the Poles, although everyone knows that the Germans shot.
      It raises questions of "dancing" on the Kulikovo field, Putin was also taken there and he carried Achinea there ....

      Tartaria, Hyperborea (the country of Boreals) is the birthplace of Russia, Rus, Slavic tribes (flames of RA))
      The horde (order) is the military power, the military clans of the Rus, the Khans are the heads of the clans, they collected the tithe (Taxes) of the state of Tartaria and brought it to the capital of the metropolis, the Tsars are worldly power ....

      The khans took power into their own hands when the "Jewish project" began to be implemented in Russia. The horde introduced martial law, it issued "labels for rule" to princes, leaders of squads, the shock right was canceled (emergency regime))
      However, the military could not cope, they knew how to fight, the magi were also limited in rights, the ideology of Judah and bribery won .....

      Wait, we need to fix everything, again, It will be the Military, but under the leadership
      A Slav, a carrier of knowledge, here a textbook would be useful so as not to explain a thousand times - how to act .........
      1. Luzhichanin
        +6
        22 January 2014 09: 52
        Quote: Asgard
        It raises questions of "dancing" on the Kulikovo field, Putin was also taken there and he carried Achinea there ....

        Recently there was an article on VO where one of the visitors posted a video showing the president’s attitude to the Battle of Kulikovo, I don’t know how much it changes in time ...
        1. +1
          22 January 2014 10: 11
          Well, here he is adequate (although of course there is not enough knowledge))
          I look "good" only understands Masonic signs))))
          On the field, when he spoke, he said different .....
          Well, what will you do, PARASIS AROUND, I suspect that Putin, too ...
          Some of these infected us during the implementation of the Jewish project,
          Moreover, this necessarily lives in every Jew) and the President)))
          1. rolik
            +3
            22 January 2014 13: 17
            Quote: Asgard
            And such lives

            Usually echinococcus in the head parasitizes, and then in the heart. Carefully let the children go outside for a walk. Especially in sandboxes, cats usually go to crap there, so that then they don’t drag dirty hands into their mouths. After the street, immediately wash with soap and water.
          2. 0
            22 January 2014 13: 57
            Honest mother, that’s rubbish, like in the most terrible American horror movies! Fu, well, an abomination! And you, as usual, are right. Our president clearly lacks diplomas to express himself more clearly, but his thought is correct. Judging by the frequent REN TV programs on such topics, the president is gradually pursuing a course towards restoring the historical authenticity of the role of Russia and Russia in world history. What will come of this, will it work out at all, and for what purpose does he do it will show time.
          3. Luzhichanin
            +1
            22 January 2014 14: 25
            Quote: Asgard
            On the field, when he spoke, he said different .....

            didn’t the references to the presentation survive? It is interesting to hear a different interpretation of events from the FIRST mouth.
            1. +9
              22 January 2014 17: 17
              no links, from memory, the Russian army defeated paraboters ....

              although we know that only after the Battle of Kulikovo slavery (serfdom) was introduced) and slaves appeared on the galleys))))
              I duck I think that if you won the “opposite” side, then there would be 282 article in the legislation, but SLAVAN wouldn’t put him on it ...
              The Horde (order bearers) Kvachkov, Khabarov, Budanov, Ulman and a number of OFFICERS would not be in prison, but would serve YOUR KIND ....
              We would be proud of the army, we would respect the servicemen, the Negroes would not beat FSO officers in the face, Titorenko, the ambassador in Qatar, would open the doors to government offices with his foot, Booth would not sit in the United States, Ukraine would be a calm country with garnish diviners and good guys, ,,,,

              This is not such a Victory ,,,,,,,,,,,, We recently celebrated ......
              Eh heh heh ...... (but I love my land, I like to lie on the grass, look at the sky, where white clouds run and free birds fly, they have not changed their nature .....

              And we?????????
        2. 0
          22 January 2014 11: 22
          Luzhichanin.
          Looked twice. Sadly.
        3. 0
          22 January 2014 20: 29
          damn what does it mean not to read the comments to the end, but immediately to comment, I damn repeated.
      2. +8
        22 January 2014 12: 01
        Quote: Asgard
        Wait, we need to fix everything

        The first step should be the introduction of the subject into the school curriculum - the Slavic alphabet, i.e. Russian language before its reform by Lunacharsky. First, it must be studied in parallel with the current language - a mutant, and later replace it. You can learn from the Jews in this; they revived a practically dead language. And plus to this, you need to adopt a law on the protection of the Russian language from foreign garbage. all this is done easily, there are no obstacles, enough initiative. But our government, judging by their actions, has opposite plans. hi
        1. +1
          22 January 2014 13: 10
          It is depressing that students should KNOW that there are supposedly 6 cases in the Russian language, and 12 times in the toothless language (English). Another "cultured" Russian person should consider the word "lay down" obscene. This harm could not have been invented by the Russians for themselves.
          1. Power
            +1
            22 January 2014 21: 58
            First the language, and then Chubais: two lifelong as a swindler?
            No - these guys will not give an inch of Russian land (voluntarily)
        2. +3
          22 January 2014 13: 17
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          The first step should be to introduce the subject into the school curriculum - the Slavic alphabet,

          Here I agree. It is necessary that the children know.
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          First, it must be studied in parallel with the current language - the mutant

          Language does not mutate; it develops.
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          and later replace it

          I don’t agree here. This is superfluous.
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          And plus to this, you need to adopt a law on the protection of the Russian language from foreign garbage.

          But here I agree. This is very important. Save, developing further.
          1. +4
            22 January 2014 14: 25
            Quote: baltika-18
            Language does not mutate; it develops.

            At the beginning of the 20th century, it was cut, now terrible things are happening to the language, what was slang in 70-80, now in dictionaries. this cannot be called development.
            Quote: baltika-18
            I don’t agree here. This is superfluous.

            What is bad if, in the early stages of learning writing, children will remember letters not as simple sounds, but as voluminous, meaning-filled meanings?
            1. +1
              22 January 2014 15: 20
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              What is bad if, in the early stages of learning writing, children will remember letters not as simple sounds, but as voluminous, meaning-filled meanings?

              I am for the study, deepened with the addition to the study of the course of linguistics. But I am against the replacement and reform of writing. This is superfluous. The language has come to its optimal form, both in pronunciation and in writing. It still remains the same capacious and sonorous, and at the same time perfectly comfortable.
        3. rolik
          +2
          22 January 2014 13: 20
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          Russian language before its reform by Lunacharsky.

          That is, you propose to return to writing "yati" ???
          1. +1
            22 January 2014 14: 29
            Quote: rolik
            That is, you propose to return to writing "yati" ???

            Yes, and more. hi
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. +1
              22 January 2014 15: 01
              I don’t know why my post was deleted: initial letter, 49 images that our ANCESTORS had before Christianity came to Russia
              1. 0
                22 January 2014 15: 04
                Quote: Nikotin13
                I don’t know why they deleted my post:

                So that srach would not be bred.
                1. John_Wood
                  0
                  22 January 2014 16: 47
                  What a neat ... Oskara and Yarosvet banned for this? In the old articles - not a single comment, I cleaned everything out. After the New Year, did you receive stricter instructions, or was it tired and scared to "fight"?
                2. The comment was deleted.
                3. +4
                  22 January 2014 19: 53
                  Russian man is unlikely to call OUR CAPITAL srach
                4. +1
                  22 January 2014 19: 53
                  Russian man is unlikely to call OUR CAPITAL srach
            3. rolik
              +3
              22 January 2014 16: 22
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              Yes, and more.

              Now, to be honest, I do not want to write. And why should Lunacharsky offend?
              The unconditional preservation of the alphabet after the Peter's reform of the alphabet in 1708 indicates that the pronunciation of the letters "e" and "ѣ" was probably still distinguishable at that time. But already in the second half of the 1885th century, Lomonosov notes that "the letters e and ѣ in common parlance barely have a sensitive difference, which in reading very clearly the ear divides and demands <...> in its stoutness, in ѣ subtlety." A century later, Groth directly states in the Russian Spelling of XNUMX: "there is not the slightest difference in their pronunciation." In some regional dialects, however, a specific shade of the "e" sound is still preserved in the syllables under the stress, which in the past were written with "ѣ".
              Already Trediakovsky in the XVIII century advocates the abolition of the nyat. There is a legend that later Nicholas I was thinking about whether to issue a corresponding decree, but abandoned the idea when he was told that they distinguish literacy from ignoramus. The draft spelling reform of 1911, developed by the Imperial Academy of Sciences, was mothballed by the highest command of Nicholas II. The letter "yat" remained a nightmare of Russian schoolchildren for a while: from the difficulty of mastering a long list of words, despite memorizing mnemonic verses, the saying "learn to yat" obviously appeared.
              Spelling reform was announced by several circulars of the Provisional Government in the summer of 1917 (the school was first translated into new spelling), confirmed by a decree of the Soviet government in December 1917; clerical work and the press on the new spelling were translated by decree of 1918.
              1. +3
                22 January 2014 19: 00
                Quote: rolik
                A century later, the Grotto directly states in the “Russian Spelling” of 1885: “there is not the slightest difference in their pronunciation”.

                Language is akin to the human body - it is not always possible to explain its work, even among doctors. And some organs seem at first glance unnecessary. Appendix for example. At first glance, the body can easily do without it, but some fine strings will still be broken. So with the letters, do not cut them off from the Russian language as an appendix. Or foreskin, after all. laughing
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. The comment was deleted.
        4. Luzhichanin
          +3
          22 January 2014 14: 28
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          You can learn from the Jews in this; they revived a practically dead language.
          Hmm ... there is another hypothesis that Hebrew was invented at the end of the 19th century by one prominent Jew from Belarus. It is interesting in this regard to hear the opinion of the natives of the promised land.
          1. +1
            22 January 2014 14: 33
            Quote: Luzhichanin
            that Hebrew was coined

            It seems to me that this is nothing more than a version, the inscriptions in Hebrew date from much earlier dates. Although I would also listen with interest to the version from the left. laughing
          2. +3
            22 January 2014 14: 41
            Quote: Luzhichanin
            Hmm ... there is another hypothesis that Hebrew was invented at the end of the 19th century by one prominent Jew from Belarus

            Hebrew was not invented, and inscriptions in Hebrew 1000-2000 years ago are also read freely and the words are exactly the same.
            They prayed in Hebrew, while Ashkenazi (European Jews) spoke in Idish, and Sephardim (Eastern Jews, usually in Arabic or the language of the countries where they lived), Judah Bar (in the 19th century) began to revive just the spoken language and, of course, in spoken language there were a lot of words, because they were not mentioned in the Torah (Old Testament). therefore, even such a word as carrots (geser) is a word invented by him, 90% of the words of the language are words of ancient, original Hebrew, but there is a whole institute that introduces new words into the language and they should be as close to the language as possible (more precisely, have a root base language) as an example, a computer (makhshev) from the word lekhashev - to think in general seems to be like a computer in Hebrew - a thinker.
            1. +1
              22 January 2014 15: 03
              Quote: atalef
              but there is a whole institute that introduces new words into the language and they should be as close as possible to the language (

              Yes, Jews take their traditions very carefully, but in the bosom of other nations they are the first reformers, especially in culture.
              P.S. Hi Sanya. hi
              1. The comment was deleted.
              2. +1
                22 January 2014 15: 08
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                P.S. Hi Sanya

                Hi, Igoryanich.
                How are you ? Our winter is somehow gloomy, +25, I want to have rains and cold already. Pancake mushrooms do not grow. In general, some kind of crap.
                1. 0
                  22 January 2014 15: 25
                  Quote: atalef
                  I want to have rains and cold

                  Come on vacation, I will provide with cold, we have -18. laughing
                  Quote: atalef
                  Pancake mushrooms do not grow.

                  I have not run out of banks yet.
                  1. The comment was deleted.
                  2. +1
                    22 January 2014 15: 28
                    Quote: Ingvar 72
                    Come on vacation, I will provide with cold, we have -18.

                    You are just anti-Semite laughing
                    Is that a crematorium on the contrary?

                    Quote: Ingvar 72
                    I have not run out of banks yet.

                    Do you mean Citibank, Sberbank and how many more banks?
                    So kidding. We have already eaten everything up and even at the brother-in-law are over (and he is an old mushroom picker, ready even at night with a flashlight to collect). We went to the email. mail a couple of cans laughing
                    1. 0
                      22 January 2014 16: 26
                      Quote: atalef
                      You are just anti-Semite

                      You didn `t know ? laughing I have a mixed approach, first cold, then a bath, you look, and Russified.
                      Quote: atalef
                      We went to the email. mail a couple of cans

                      I would send it, but they won’t fit into the system unit, and if they got into it, then Romanov would have intercepted and ate them. laughing
                      1. 0
                        22 January 2014 23: 18
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        then Romanov would have intercepted them and ate

                        Romanov is like that. he will intercept and eat mail as a moderator. crying
                        Let's drink something on Skype. You’ll show them on the camera. drinks
        5. 0
          22 January 2014 15: 27
          ... still not enough - consult with the Russian Orthodox Church. These Ridigers and the Gundyaevs will advise
          1. saber1357
            -2
            23 January 2014 00: 52
            Instead, we must, of course, consult with the Genoa - the name is truly Gusian for everyone to understand.
        6. 0
          22 January 2014 18: 45
          only "Slavic" history will have to be invented?
  3. +9
    22 January 2014 09: 06
    "Only one ideology"
    This is contrary to our most liberal constitution! Isn't it time to change her?
    1. +10
      22 January 2014 09: 30
      Quote: Old Warrant Officer
      This is contrary to our most liberal constitution! Isn't it time to change her?

      It is useless to change the constitution without changing the authorities, in 1993 it was easily violated for the sake of power. Look at how many anti-corruption laws have been passed, and they steal even more. For a decent person, the law of his conscience is enough, and a thief will always try to steal. Moreover, those who, according to their duties, must fight corruption, steal more than others. System..
      1. Ivan Petrovich
        +1
        22 January 2014 09: 48
        right. The constitution is just a piece of paper ...
        1. Luzhichanin
          +7
          22 January 2014 09: 54
          Live according to Conscience and this piece of paper will be needed only in order to visit the sanitary room.
          1. 0
            24 January 2014 16: 48
            And will everyone live honestly? or only those who will go to the sanitary room with her?
        2. +2
          22 January 2014 12: 17
          Simply at the moment "CONSTITUTION" is a piece of paper !!!!! But when it will be fixed and STRICTLY observed !!!!, for example, shooting !! for drug dealing or treasury. And the disruption of the state defense order is equated with the mass murder of Russian citizens. Then it will cease to be an unnecessary piece of paper !.

          PiSi: but unfortunately our "elite" will not agree to this, how can they live then ?!
          1. -1
            22 January 2014 13: 47
            Quote: Deniska
            Simply at the moment "CONSTITUTION" is a piece of paper !!!!! But when it will be fixed and STRICTLY observed !!!!, for example, shooting !! for drug dealing or treasury. And the disruption of the state defense order is equated with the mass murder of Russian citizens. Then it will cease to be an unnecessary piece of paper !.

            PiSi: but unfortunately our "elite" will not agree to this, how can they live then ?!

            Yes Yes! For spelling mistakes - 15 years in the camps, for violation of punctuation rules - 10, and for incorrect stress - 5. So we will save the Russian language. And, of course, the Slavic language. Only not the one who reformed Lunacharsky, but the one on which the "Tale of Bygone Years" is written. belay
            1. 0
              24 January 2014 16: 47
              What are you about?? If you are satisfied with what we have in our country for the theft of millions - "there is no corpus delicti", but for resisting the police for 3 years! Do not go too fardear.
          2. 0
            22 January 2014 16: 30
            Moreover, to return CONFISCATION for unjustly acquired.
  4. +8
    22 January 2014 09: 07
    It is necessary to write a clean story, if there were problems, then you must not forget about them, but you cannot deceive yourself, it will come back later.
    1. zzz
      zzz
      +2
      22 January 2014 09: 59
      Quote: ZU-23
      It is necessary to write a clean story, if there were problems, then you must not forget about them, but you cannot deceive yourself, it will come back later.


      Society without a past is doomed, so they are trying to deprive us of the present story. And if you start writing the truth about Ancient Russia, then the Orthodox Church will be unambiguously against .... such a thread will stretch ... And nevertheless, people should know the truth, and they will draw conclusions themselves. If something has taken root in society, that means it was for the good.
      1. +2
        22 January 2014 10: 19
        Ancient Russia is generally an old and little proven history, the same as we here recently discussed about the Tatar-Mongol yoke, whether it was or not.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. +1
        22 January 2014 12: 18
        And why would the Orthodox Church be against the history of the church and the Orthodox people? explain to the uncomprehending ...
        1. Luzhichanin
          -4
          22 January 2014 14: 32
          well, if only because the Orthodox Church in Russia only became under Stalin.
          1. saber1357
            0
            23 January 2014 00: 54
            Oh, yes, you probably all know what when and why it happened, and with prof. Kant, probably also sat at breakfast?
            1. Luzhichanin
              0
              23 January 2014 13: 14
              I know a lot, but I don’t know anymore (s)
              Kant did not sit at breakfast.
              Any other questions? I think you have enough mind and find answers to them yourself.
            2. Luzhichanin
              0
              23 January 2014 13: 14
              I know a lot, but I don’t know anymore (s)
              Kant did not sit at breakfast.
              Any other questions? I think you have enough mind and find answers to them yourself.
        2. +1
          22 January 2014 14: 52
          because not everything is clean and unambiguous
    2. +2
      22 January 2014 14: 37
      Quote: ZU-23
      You have to write a clean story,

      To be honest, I don’t understand at all what "pure history" is. Non-existent concept. History is a statement of fact with a subjective assessment of cause and effect.
      Here's a sample of "clean history": From 1939 to 1945, a group of European states participated in hostilities, one was beneficial, the other was not, and at the end of hostilities peace agreements were signed, which did not suit everyone.
      As soon as you talk about the reasons for any of the participants in the war, or try to use the words aggressor and victim - immediately the story will cease to be "pure", having received a portion of subjective assessment, personally yours.
      I think that a history textbook should always be written in such a way as to instill a patriotic attitude in students, and without any connection with current political views. Moreover, the school history textbook must end in 1985 in order to stop the "democratic verbiage", otherwise history lessons will turn into a discussion club. Thanks.
      1. +4
        22 January 2014 14: 57
        History began to be written in Russia with the advent of Christianity, and before that our ANCESTORS had a chronicle.
      2. The comment was deleted.
  5. +16
    22 January 2014 09: 08
    On the one hand, Vladimir Putin is right: all attempts to distort the history of Russia must be strictly suppressed

    So let it stop!
    Isn't that Putin, who apologized to the Poles for Katyn and claimed that the Bolsheviks had ruined the Russian army? Excuse me, would you like to start with yourself?
    1. 0
      22 January 2014 09: 23
      But did not the Bolsheviks ruin and destroy the Russian army in the early 20th century?
      It seems that they were the main initiators of the destruction of the Russian State along with all its attributes (first of all, the "old Leninists" - the champions of the "world international") - after all, they are!
      We will not list these people and their real names.
      1. +8
        22 January 2014 09: 46
        Have you heard about the February revolution? And who created the soldiers' committees? And when did the order No.1 come out?
        Russian Empire, you wanted to say.
        Instead of the Russian army, the Bolsheviks created the Red Army. Her success must be listed.
        1. -1
          22 January 2014 12: 27
          From the post above !!

          no need to write that the greatest Empire of the USSR was created under them. You and I don’t know an alternative course of events during the ORTHODOX !!! Tsarist Monarchy.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. -9
        22 January 2014 12: 26
        Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin, Kamenev, Brezhnev, Khrushchev, Beria, Andropov, Chernenko, Gorbachev ... Unfortunately, this is who destroyed the Empire and the Imperial Army. And there are no Russians;))

        P.C. And do not write that under them the greatest Empire of the USSR was created. You and I don’t know an alternative course of events during the ORTHODOX !!! Tsarist Monarchy.
        1. +4
          22 January 2014 14: 27
          He sat for a long time and thought to answer you.
          There is simply no alternative course of history! There is a HISTORY. If you want an alternative, read fiction. Only then do not refer to it as facts smile .
          But the facts are such that the royal monarchy is rotten and allowed itself to be overthrown.
          The USSR was built by the efforts of the entire Soviet people. And the Red Army was created that broke the ridge of fascism.
          For me, it makes no difference Russian people or not. If only he worked, served for the good of the country.
          And from the post above, you still did not answer the questions posed: did you hear about the February revolution? And who created the soldiers' committees? And when did the order No.1 come out?
      4. +3
        22 January 2014 14: 53
        no, it was destroyed before them - under Kerensky
      5. saber1357
        +1
        23 January 2014 00: 55
        The comment is not superfluous, which they set up the minuses, the person actually said nothing fundamentally wrong ....
    2. Luzhichanin
      +3
      22 January 2014 14: 35
      Quote: invisible
      in front of the Poles for Katyn

      Hmm ... even historians have recognized this as a farce. How can a special operation to propagate lies be identified with reality ?!
      1. +6
        22 January 2014 14: 51
        Firstly:
        The Grand Chamber of the European Court of Human Rights (BP ECHR) made a final decision on the lawsuit of a group of Polish citizens demanding a new investigation into the death of Polish prisoners of war in Katyn. The court did not found the Russian Federation guilty of violating Article 3 of the European Convention for the Protection of Human Rights: “Prohibition of inhuman or degrading treatment”. The claim was not approved by the plaintiffs to conduct a new investigation.

        http://www.km.ru/world/2013/10/22/evropeiskii-sud-po-pravam-cheloveka-v-strasbur

        ge / 723547-reshenie-evropeiskogo-suda-

        Secondly, as the examination showed, the Poles were shot from pistols of the Walter brand, caliber 0, 7 mm, which were not in service with the NKVD, there were enough Nagans, Mauser and TT, while the Poles were tied with German twine, a method not accepted in the USSR ... Thirdly, some Polish officers who were allegedly shot in Katyn, for example General Anders, turned out to be alive, alive, subsequently created a Polish corps, which fled from the USSR in 65 in order not to fight the Germans.
        And thirdly, even if all of a sudden, ours shot the Poles, this is revenge for the brutal extermination of about 80 of thousands of Soviet prisoners of war by the Poles in the 1920 year, this is how noble gentlemen in the Confederates acted:
        A representative of the Polish administration in the occupied territories (the so-called Civil Administration of the Eastern Lands), someone Kossakovsky testified: "People were robbed, whipped with barbed wire, burned with red-hot iron to obtain false confessions." In the presence of General Listovsky (the commander of the task force in Polesie), a boy was shot dead - "because he allegedly smiled unkindly."

        And the Poles liked to put different experiments on prisoners of war. One of the favorite amusements of the Polish soldier, of which Kossakovsky was an eyewitness, was the following: “a living cat was sewn into someone’s open stomach and mortgaged, who will die first, man or cat”


        Soviet prisoners of war in Polish captivity
        1. +1
          23 January 2014 15: 55
          Quote: Novel 1977
          as the examination showed, the Poles were shot from pistols of the Walter brand, caliber 7, 65 mm, which were not in service with the NKVD, there was enough

          You should at least read VO articles if you don’t want to follow other sources.
          There were Walters at the NKVD, there were!
          But not with firing squads, and indeed spend anything on enemies of the people bought for currency?
          It seems so in that article on VO dedicated to Katyn. There, by the way, this very Jesuit content of the decision is given.
  6. +12
    22 January 2014 09: 08
    I completely agree with the author regarding the reprinting of the Soviet history textbook, or at least take it as the basis for the new.
    1. +1
      22 January 2014 11: 08
      Soviet textbook lying here and there
      this is especially true of the events of 17 years, because the textbook does not understand why all of Europe, so white and fluffy, suddenly became afraid of us.
      For example, one cannot ignore the truth of an unsuccessful raid on Poland immediately after the civil war.
      The textbook is also silent on the role of the international in foreign policy, why Germany suddenly had a tooth on the USSR.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  7. +8
    22 January 2014 09: 13
    That is why tales and legends appeared in order to preserve the real history of Russia in the memory of the people. And all sorts of momentary princelings always adjusted the story to their loved ones. "THE WINNER WRITS THE HISTORY" - and destroys the real history. Take care of Soviet HISTORY textbooks and bring it to your children and grandchildren until you can shake off the dirty foam of modern life from your shoulders.
    1. olviko
      +18
      22 January 2014 09: 32
      "That is why tales and legends appeared,"
    2. Pinochet000
      +14
      22 January 2014 09: 50
      Quote: skeptic
      Take care of Soviet HISTORY textbooks and inform your children and grandchildren until you can shake off the dirty foam of modern life.

      I also think that I need to teach our children (grandchildren) ourselves ... for now
      1. +4
        22 January 2014 12: 28
        Not so much to teach ourselves how to teach them to distinguish truth and fiction.
    3. Energet1k_
      0
      22 January 2014 10: 03
      And all sorts of momentary princelings always adjusted the story to their loved ones. "THE WINNER WRITS THE HISTORY" - and destroys the real history. Take care of the Soviet HISTORY textbooks and bring it to your children and grandchildren,

      You contradict yourself Dear! History was rewritten in 93, and in 17, etc. So where is this foundation on which to lean, where is the truth? You wrote "History is written by the winner" correctly, so maybe you should go back to history, until the moment where no one defeated anyone ??
    4. The comment was deleted.
  8. Pinochet000
    +5
    22 January 2014 09: 14
    Alexander, as always to the point)) We really need a "Slavic University" ... or something like that, I also thought about it ...
  9. +4
    22 January 2014 09: 17
    Today every "patriot" considers it his duty to walk through the hated Tatars. The country has no more enemies, but we’ll end these and happiness will come to Russia. They even got to Musa Jalil. I will note that no matter how the Germans tried to create combat-ready units from the Tatars, all their attempts ended in failure, at the first opportunity they left with weapons to the partisans. So look for problems in the wrong place.
  10. +7
    22 January 2014 09: 26
    We were discussing here one of these days at one of the forums. And what will the date be called November 7, 1917? And all that follows.
    We came to the conclusion that it depends on the national composition of the "inventors".
  11. +5
    22 January 2014 09: 32
    Who will allow us to get out of the biblical concept ... until Russia was put under it - we would not coexist, as it were. we will learn history starting from the 10 of the 20th century and not later ... Even the Jew Solovyov admits that the Slavs appeared in the 6-th century, and that nothing is written about it in the textbooks ... and Andrei the first-called in the first century to Russia He came to baptize her, Russia did not accept his faith and we are not in the history of that time, but since the forcible seizure of power in Vladimir in the 988 year and to this day - please, discuss this ...

    It’s like in a joke:
    There is a meeting. Speaker
    - There are two questions on the agenda: the first - to shoot all those present and the second - to repaint the fence in green. Any questions?
    - Yes. Why green?
    - But this question, I propose to discuss ...

    1. +1
      22 January 2014 09: 54
      In addition to the foregoing:



      Putin knows about Tartaria, and what is written about it in the textbooks - not what ...
      1. +1
        22 January 2014 18: 34
        Panmongolism! Though the name is wild
        But it caresses my ears.

        Vladimir Solovyov
        Millions are you. Us - darkness, and darkness, and darkness.
        Try, fight with us!
        Yes, maybe the Scythians are us! Yes, Asians are us
        With slanted and greedy eyes!

        For you - centuries, for us - a single hour.
        We are like obedient slaves
        Holding a shield between two hostile races
        Mongols and Europe!

        Century, century your old horn forged
        And drowned out the thunder of an avalanche
        And a wild fairy tale was a failure for you
        And Lisbon, and Messina!

        You have looked east for hundreds of years,
        Digging and melting our pearls
        And you, mocking, counted only the term,
        When to train cannon vents!

        Here - the time has come. Wings are beating trouble
        And every day resentment multiplies,
        And the day will come - there will be no trace
        From your Paestums, maybe!

        Oh, the old world! Until you perish,
        While you languish with sweet flour,
        Stop, wise as Oedipus,
        Before the Sphinx with an ancient mystery!

        Russia - Sphinx. Rejoicing and mourning
        And bleeding black blood,
        She looks, looks, looks at you,
        With hate and with love!

        Yes, to love as much as our blood loves,
        None of you have loved for a long time!
        Forgot you, that in the world there is love,
        Which burns and kills!

        We love everything - and the heat of cold numbers,
        And the gift of divine visions,
        Everything is clear to us - and the sharp Gallic meaning,
        And the gloomy German genius ...

        We remember everything - hell streets of Paris,
        And the Venetian coolness,
        Lemon groves are a distant fragrance,
        And Cologne is smoky ...

        We love the flesh - both its taste and color,
        And the stuffy, mortal flesh smell ...
        Guilty if we crack your skeleton
        In the heavy, gentle paws?

        We used to get used to the bridle
        Playing horses zealous,
        Breaking horses with heavy sacra
        And pacify the slaves of the obstinate ...

        Come to us! From the horrors of war
        Come into peaceful embrace!
        Before it's too late - the old scabbard sword
        Comrades! We will become - brothers!

        And if not, we have nothing to lose,
        And we are not above treachery!
        Centuries, centuries - you will be cursed
        Sick later offspring!

        We are wide in the wilds and forests
        Before Europe, prigozhey
        Let's part! We will turn to you
        His Asian mug!

        Go all, go to the Urals!
        We clear the place of battle
        Steel machines, where the integral breathes,
        With the Mongolian wild horde!

        But we ourselves are no longer a shield for you now,
        From now on, we will not enter the battle ourselves,
        We'll see how the mortal battle is boiling,
        With his narrow eyes.

        We will not move when the ferocious Hun
        In the pockets of corpses will fumble,
        Burn the city, and drive the herd into the church,
        And fry the meat of white brothers! ..

        For the last time — come to your senses, old world!
        On the fraternal feast of work and peace,
        The last time for a bright fraternal feast
        Cries the barbaric lyre!
    2. +3
      22 January 2014 17: 01
      Quote: Boris55
      - There are two questions on the agenda: the first - to shoot all those present and the second - to repaint the fence in green. Any questions?
      - Yes. Why green?
      - But this question, I propose to discuss ...

      If you retell something in your own words, then at least do not distort the meaning _
      I knew that there would be no questions on the first point!
    3. The comment was deleted.
  12. Scorpio
    -8
    22 January 2014 09: 37
    Both were Caucasians (representatives of the white race)


    some nonsense. Even on geographical maps, Tatars are people who are closer to the Turks than to the Europeans. Well, and the textbook of geography is also lying chtol now?
    1. 0
      22 January 2014 10: 02
      Why do you compare current cards with the affairs of days gone by? Take the cards of those times, there are not many of them, if it weren’t for the Internet to know about them at all, and watch, study.

      And then - the present Tatars have nothing to do with those referred to in the article.
      1. Scorpio
        -6
        22 January 2014 10: 47
        that is, Tatarstan and Kazan with the Tatars with whom the formidable fought have nothing to do? This is probably some kind of new race that arose from dust and settled in Tatarstan. Ok, I get it.
        1. -1
          22 January 2014 18: 36
          Ok, I get it.

          You didn’t understand anything. Read the right books.
          1. Scorpio
            -1
            23 January 2014 10: 26
            Quote: v53993
            Read the right books.

            Exactly. before writing stupid articles, it’s better not to read and write books by scientists, but such a scientist would say this on the basis of this. And this ignoramus composes all sorts.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. 0
      22 January 2014 18: 34
      Quote: Scorpio
      geography textbook also now lying chtol?

      All calendars lie!
  13. +11
    22 January 2014 09: 37
    Students will also be told about the contribution of the first president of Tatarstan M. Shaimiev, etc.
    the most interesting proposal, about which contribution and where not reported, probably in their own independence, Wahhabi integration, etc.
  14. Orakyl
    +9
    22 January 2014 09: 38
    You need to understand that now we are not only fighting for history, but for the future of Russia. And once again we have no right to lose, because then everything else will already be meaningless. An open discussion of the textbook by all specialists is necessary, as well as an explanation of the reasons for this or that event. Only for God's sake, without liberals and foreign experts, who rewritten it a thousand times before, to please himself. To tell the story of Tartaria, the truth about the revolution, about Stalin, to explain the reasons. Perhaps the people have already ripened (woke up) to perceive a deeper truth described by Levashev. Personally, I, as a citizen of Russia, do not trust a narrow group of specialists, have already passed.
  15. series
    +4
    22 January 2014 09: 39
    History textbooks are always written to satisfy the existing socio-economic, political and religious structure of a state ...
    An impartial analysis of historical events and facts (non-religious, non-ethnic, non-ideological) should be the basis for writing a HISTORY textbook.
  16. +5
    22 January 2014 09: 40
    To be honest, the USSR did not fight against "fascism" and the number of "fascists" killed by Soviet troops is equal to the number of Italian soldiers killed on the Eastern Front, and even then for sure not all were party members. I do not know who, when and why changed the word "Nazism" on "fascism." As for working with foreign historians, Putin famously said this, let the Soros Foundation write a textbook for us, or let "cooperate" help write history, I’ve got used to the principle that Putin is constantly lying, and now he also speaks nonsense, but in the end everything can be expected from a professional liar. And what does it mean, "There was no Yoke? Has he read Fomenko? Let him say that the Mongols were Russians and everything will be all right. I wonder what it would be the heroic defenders of Ryazan if they knew that some Putin and some vague "advice on history" would say that "There was no Yoke," that when the Mongols massacred the entire population of Ryazan in 1237, it was not " Yoke and invasion "and" Dependency ", I understand Moscow shehas always been a two-faced and deceitful principality and easily fell under the Mongols, for them, yes, it was "dependence", as the lackey depends on the owner. Why deny what is world-famous and recognized? You can call "Igo" "Dependency", as for a cancer patient can be called "oncology" "a mild cold" and self-complacency, stick his head in the sand and not see or hear anything.
  17. The comment was deleted.
    1. +2
      22 January 2014 10: 28
      Something similar has already grown in your way, only inward ... crushing ...
    2. +1
      22 January 2014 12: 16
      Quote: Nitarius
      so you have something on your forehead that has grown in the form of a male body!

      No matter how something feminine has grown on your forehead. fool
  18. The comment was deleted.
    1. +4
      22 January 2014 10: 37
      When the city of Leningrad was called, then it was not Lenin who built it. Something in history has long been confused, and the dates and names of cities. I come from the Kirov region, before Kirov was Vyatka, and even earlier Khlynov. Why was the city of Khlynov renamed to Vyatka? To call us Vyatichi, but then all mention of the Vyatichi tribe (which have nothing to do with the Kirov region) disappeared. And similar questions on the history of Russia are darkness.
  19. Volkhov
    +2
    22 January 2014 09: 47
    A real story is impossible for the authorities, it will immediately destroy their picture of the world and legitimacy - therefore, the story is attached to propaganda. The Soviet textbook is simply an older and simpler lie.
    If someone needs reality, he will have to create Anonerba himself, and after a while the security structures for the found Grail, then there will be a confrontation with the invaders, then you need to win the space war - the correct textbook costs about how much.
  20. vladsolo56
    +20
    22 January 2014 09: 49
    Even when I was in school, I thought: why in the history of Russia there is no pre-Christian period, all peoples have, Russians do not. Strange vacuum. And only recently I understand that no one needed the history of Russia, and now does not need it. There are no programs for the study of pre-Christian Russia, no funds are allocated for historical research. Why? everything is just profitable to educate and conveniently lead those who in history have nothing to be proud of, savages and ignoramuses who can neither read nor write, who lived in a dugout, and walked in the shoes. That's all the Russians should know. Europe pulled Russia out of the wild community, because the Russians should always admire Europe, and do only what the Europeans do. For many years I have been pissed off by people from whom I can only hear, Ah America, Ah Germany, France, Japan. And all this despite the fact that the inventions and scientific discoveries of Russia either underestimate or steal, or even send them to the shelves in the archive. I’m wondering someday, there will come times when for the expression ah the American or German people will get in the face.
    1. +12
      22 January 2014 10: 19
      have already arrived) At least to the point of hoarseness, I argue and swear about this with everyone) Unfortunately, the feeling of the closeness of Russians, a derogatory attitude to history and direct slavish admiration for geyrope with America is so hammered into the minds of the majority, that you can beat the figs. When you give arguments - figs believe, because you don’t understand who wrote it, "generally recognized" science says something else.

      It got to the point that when he described the life of peasants in comparison with European ones, and cited the notes and chronicles of the Europeans themselves who traveled around Russia - the question followed: why did they get that the peasant lived well in Russia? I say - so it’s written! No, this is his subjective point of view! I’m shocked, I say - what nonsense, according to other sources it is known that the peasants had farms with a honeycomb, which was not in Europe! Bullshit, it’s not historians who wrote, this is a subjective view, maybe he liked it, so he wrote ... And how to prove it? And most of these ...

      Or, it happened recently - about the impact on the opposition, the conversation came out - someone made a comment - so we get to the 37th year ... I was right there - and what was bad in the 37th? The answer is brilliant - but what's good? The conversation did not work, because apart from the emotions that it was bad no one could say anything. The prisoners didn’t even know the numbers - just like half the country in the camps. The result - embezzlers were planted, unfortunately they are not planting now ... And where is the pancake logic?
      1. +5
        22 January 2014 15: 01
        I agree with you. You need to fight not only with id. garbage, but also with narrow-mindedness ... If there is culture and education, then identity itself will straighten out ...
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. +2
        22 January 2014 16: 57
        Quote: Lapotnik
        When you give arguments - FIG believe ... And where the hell is logic?

        Logic in that these zombies no logic.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. +2
      22 January 2014 11: 22
      If the history textbook will write a narrow circle of experts and will sound in the context of the word political correctness and tolerance and also make their own corrections, for example, Tatar scientists, although I have nothing against the Tatars, such times will not come soon. IMHO.
    4. 0
      22 January 2014 16: 51
      Quote: vladsolo56
      I’m wondering someday, there will come times when for the expression ah the American or German people will get in the face.

      Here these "pluses" we give them in the face!
  21. +3
    22 January 2014 09: 50
    Making amendments to the textbook on the History of Russia, on the absence of such a large-scale historical phenomenon as tat mongl.iga, will take a lot of time and unnecessary discus, the authorities need a new textbook today and, as has already been noted more than once, the textbook is politically correct. Let’s see it turns out to combine incompatible. The concept of the Great Russian Revolution is especially touching, such a mess from this, the teachers posed an interesting problem.
    1. +3
      22 January 2014 10: 35
      Well, the French, for example, managed to (fully combine the incompatible) to the fullest. The Jacobin cannibals quite peacefully coexist on the same pages with the no less cannibalistic Directory, and Napoleon, in fact a usurper and a murderer of the same Duke of Engiensky (about the fact that half of the European part of RI was ruined, keep quiet) is generally a national hero.
      In France, it would never occur to anyone to consider their story flawed and deserving of condemnation because of the same Great (with a capital letter) French Revolution with its cute episodes such as drowning in the blood of Vendée: http://chessglum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic. php? f = 25 & t = 778
      Why? I suppose because the liberal kitchen gorlopans (and where without them?) Are put in their rightful place - the kitchen, and statesmen are engaged in ideological issues in history.
  22. +2
    22 January 2014 09: 55
    It is necessary to clarify the origin of the word - Tatars. There was a certain tribe of Tatars who fiercely resisted the expansion of the Mongol conquerors. All who were above the wheel hub were cut out.
    Since then, the Mongols have called the Tatars the Bugars, who also resisted the Mongols. So, the current nationalists of Tatarstan are absolutely wrong.
  23. +2
    22 January 2014 09: 56
    They have already stuck to this "Mongol-Tatar yoke". This is one of the indicators of Great Russian chauvenism: to call many of the peoples of the south Tatars, and then defend this "nickname" with foam at the mouth. At the same time, forgetting about how the "great" Russian princes went to bow to the khans, weaved intrigues, betrayed and killed each other for a shortcut to reign. And also forgetting about the Russian guards of the Mongolian guard, etc.
    The story must be true, not correct. And the truth is that the yoke was held not only by the Mongols and "Tatars", but also by a large number of other nationalities, including the Slavs. Therefore, it is historically correct to call the yoke of the Golden Horde.
    But our cheers patriots do not care for the truth.
    1. +2
      22 January 2014 10: 25
      Here is more detailed. Who, whom and for what held.

      Mongolian Guard ?? This is something new. You are not confused with the modern case?

      Including the Slavs ... well, no. The Slavs are the foundation, and the rest can be included.


      PS Vinaigrette is your favorite dish?
      1. -2
        22 January 2014 10: 49
        Quote: Lapotnik
        Here is more detailed. Who, whom and for what held.

        What do you mean?

        Quote: Lapotnik
        Mongolian Guard ?? This is something new. You are not confused with the modern case?

        Keshik, keshik (from Turkic kazik - “turn”, “change”) - the personal guard of the great khans (kaans) of the Mongolian state, established by Genghis Khan. Founded as a guardian of the khan’s headquarters, the guard also acquired the importance of an elite unit of the Mongolian army, as well as an important link in government, being, in fact, the main pillar of the khan’s power.

        Quote: Lapotnik
        The Slavs are the foundation, and the rest can be included.

        O_o. The first time I hear that the Slavs are the foundation of the Golden Horde. What are you talking about, my friend?

        Well, I do not comment on rudeness :)
        1. +3
          22 January 2014 11: 25
          Rudeness? where did you see rudeness? They knocked everything and everything into a bunch. I have long understood - you are a supporter of official history. Do you support the Norman origin of the Slavs?

          It is strange that you have not heard that the Slavs are the foundation of the Golden Horde. This is just the main version, as opposed to official history, which is very widely discussed.

          Quote from the article:

          "There were no" Mongols "on the territory of Russia and Eastern Europe. There are no anthropological, genetic and cultural traces of the" Mongols "(Mongoloids). Russian researchers have already smashed the concept of the conquest of Russia by the" Mongols ", who arrived on their horses from Mongolia. And before that, semi-savage shepherds allegedly destroyed China, Khorezm and many other powerful states. This issue is discussed in more detail in a series of articles Russian land before the Batu invasion. The problem of the "Mongol" invasion of Russia. "

          That's how it was - the Mongols did not have written language, they did not conquer anyone, did not even have statehood, and they had a guard.

          It’s also interesting to think about who the khans, riches, etc. are. etc. Especially about Genghis Khan. Many interesting things, including among recognized historians.

          In principle, the dispute does not make sense here, since the opponent knows only one version.

          Substation Keshik, keshik (from Türkic kesik - “turn”, “shift”). The source from the wiki is strong. And here are the words individually:

          Gut is a mixture of wheat, kefir and spices. It is prepared in almost all Arab countries, as well as in Iran and Turkey.

          Separately, KEshik did not find (only on the wiki).

          Kasik ... well, it’s even become scary - it’s important only in the Kazakh wiki, I didn’t begin to read and conduct ... but offhand - a dung?
          1. +1
            22 January 2014 15: 07
            Comrade Comrade is very interested in this matter. A. Fomenko hypothesizes (I highly recommend that you familiarize yourself)
        2. The comment was deleted.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  24. +5
    22 January 2014 10: 03
    I also disagree with the term "yoke" (slavery). It would be more correct to call this period in our history "the two hundred year war".
    1. +5
      22 January 2014 10: 34
      Quote: Sergei Medvedev
      it would be more correct to call it the "two hundred year war".

      bicentennial civil...
      1. Scorpio
        0
        22 January 2014 10: 58
        then even longer, and before the yoke we successfully fought with each other. It’s just that with the advent of the Tatar-Mongols, a common enemy appeared and a common goal to give them in the cabbage soup.
      2. 0
        22 January 2014 11: 51
        and then there were citizens?
      3. The comment was deleted.
  25. +4
    22 January 2014 10: 12
    I do not agree with the definition of "ideological rubbish" - often it is a specially added ideological poison. And no matter at what time of Russian history it was added - its goal is the same - belittling Russia, belittling its merits in the general civilizational development.
    History and ideology - things are different (should be). Imagine ideological archeology - one of the main historical disciplines - it will be pseudoscience. Or ideological mathematics ...
    1. 0
      22 January 2014 16: 08
      All right!
      I do not agree with the "general civilizational development" - we are completely different civilizations.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  26. +4
    22 January 2014 10: 24
    We are talking about particulars ......
    The main thing is that there will be no textbook in the foundation of which will be the greatness of the history of Slavism, Russia, Tartaria! There will be no textbook in which the greatness of the USSR of the period 30-70 years of the XX century will be absolute.
    This textbook was not even in Soviet times. For the sake of the nationalities, we are distorting our history, the historical code of the Russian people is being washed out.
    And now another monster with "alternative" assessments will appear, a scribble based on Russophobia.
    1. +2
      22 January 2014 19: 45
      Quote: Chen
      The main thing is that there will be no textbook in the foundation of which will be the greatness of the history of Slavism, Russia, Tartaria! There will be no textbook in which the greatness of the USSR of the period 30-70 years of the XX century will be absolute.
      This textbook was not even in Soviet times. For the sake of the nationalities, we are distorting our history, the historical code of the Russian people is being washed out.
      And now another monster with "alternative" assessments will appear, a scribble based on Russophobia.


      It’s sad to realize this, but for some reason I have the conviction that it will be so
  27. +1
    22 January 2014 10: 32
    Standard

    In addition to Ryazan, a bunch of other cities calmly reached an agreement with Batu without any patriotic complexes, which could not be: there was not a single people, not a single state for such feelings. The war went on among its own and with its own. Explain why they did not touch the richest Smolensk, while fighting in Poland, the Czech Republic and Croatia. The city was its own.
    1. Scorpio
      -5
      22 January 2014 11: 01
      Own? That is, it is Smolensk who cut out half of Russia, stole slavery in the steppe, and then went to rob Europe? You will probably say that these aliens helped them, but I still believe you.
  28. +2
    22 January 2014 10: 43
    [quote = Tatanka Yotanka]Students will also be told about the contribution of the first president of Tatarstan M. Shaimiev, etc.

    Well, just the same Peter 1, the same large-scale figure, it is necessary to convey to the descendants information about the historical achievements of Shaimiev ...
    And in order for this insanity with political correctness to acquire a complete form, it would be necessary to supplement the proposed formulation: "Dependence on the Golden Horde" with a phrase - "resulting from the introduction of a limited contingent of troops of this Horde to Russia."
    1. Scorpio
      0
      22 January 2014 11: 03
      Quote: ranger
      : "Dependence on the Golden Horde" by the phrase - "resulting from the introduction of a limited contingent of troops of this Horde to Russia."

      laughing
    2. 0
      22 January 2014 11: 53
      performing his international duty: D
    3. The comment was deleted.
  29. +1
    22 January 2014 10: 45
    If you remove all the lies from history, there will not necessarily be one truth; it may turn out that nothing remains. Said back in the 19th century. And he so simply wants to establish the truth once and for all. Theoretically, historical truth can be established through a normal court. Will power be needed, or even society, is truth? The courts will also need to be created, which already looks utopian.
  30. -1
    22 January 2014 10: 59
    Beauty will save the world
  31. +2
    22 January 2014 11: 03
    What kind of conception of the history textbook are we talking about if there are the concepts of tolerance and political correctness, if the Tatars make their own corrections, then why it is impossible to correct Russian history, for example, to the Chukchi or other peoples living in Russia, we are all the same. a new textbook if everyone is not too lazy to make their own corrections. Wasserman with his concept of a textbook is, as always, on top.
  32. +2
    22 January 2014 11: 04
    Is it really impossible to find out once and for all what was and when! And when we find out - you need to pass a law that if someone distort our history, then he will sit for treason!
  33. +2
    22 January 2014 11: 08
    Of course, history cannot be distorted, but the author was also not worth taking absolutely incomprehensible and alien concepts from the ceiling. This is also a distortion of history.
  34. 0
    22 January 2014 11: 14
    throw away all the "ideological garbage" that littered history.

    Ideological garbage (social parasites) at least send to their historical homeland. Let this nest of snakes and reptiles bite themselves, but it will be easier for Arabs to clear the ball
  35. +5
    22 January 2014 11: 17
    Quote: Luzhichanin
    Recently there was an article on VO where one of the visitors posted a video showing the president’s attitude to the Battle of Kulikovo, I don’t know how much it changes in time ...

    The Kulikovo field has been plowed up and down many times. But there are no signs of fighting there. Simply no. And the field in size and landscape somehow does not correspond to that described in the "re-sources". The Kalka River also "evaporated" without a trace. This is different. There are actual burial sites (busty graves). With temples and chapels, as expected. At least in the same Moscow on Kulichki. But "historians" do not allow researchers to go there. Nope and that's it! Otherwise, how would history not be rewritten. Where then are the Mongols to go? All lies will climb out like ... out of the toilet.
    1. Scorpio
      -5
      22 January 2014 11: 26
      Everything and your whole life lies to you. There were no cripples, the Battle of Kulikovo, the Lake of Chud, Napoleon and Hitler. You are in the matrix.
  36. +7
    22 January 2014 11: 21
    The Russian (Slavic) concept of history should be yesterday. Western historians are climbing out of their skin to show Western civilization in a favorable light, educating the youth of the West in the right direction. At the same time, they do not shun the distortions of facts and direct falsifications, for the sake of their momentary political benefits. The Russian concept should be honest, open and fair. Studying the story our young generation must respect the country's past and get ready to protect her in the future.
  37. +4
    22 January 2014 11: 51
    And yes, and those who, over the past 25 years, have been littering and perverting our history and the consciousness of our children, according to the president, as I understand it, live and flourish unless they deserve punishment wherever they looked at the council on pseudoscience at the Russian Academy of Sciences.
  38. +3
    22 January 2014 11: 54
    Only in the new textbook is there no Great October Socialist Revolution. But there is simply a revolution in which the bourgeois February and the socialist October were mixed. At the same time, the leading role is highlighted in February.

    Here it is, it turned out, Mikhalych.
  39. +2
    22 January 2014 11: 56
    People must be destroyed by greed and a dead end branch of development. The confrontation of 2 civilizations helps these branches of development survive. The result is a multipolar world. As a result, we have how many nations have so many stories. From this it is concluded that Slavic history is for Slavs only. History is intertwined with culture, technology, etc. therefore, it is not necessary to divulge the secrets of victories. If we have already given and are giving away part of the land to other nations, then we need to look for new territory in Siberia for the construction of new cities. And do not run away as before to Australia or China or America to England.
  40. +1
    22 January 2014 12: 24
    One thing must be understood: there is history as a science with its own scientific apparatus, research methods and the struggle of ideas and opinions, and there is "history" as an ideological concept of the ruling circles of the state. These are two big differences and mixing them is almost impossible and rarely happens. Why? Due to the fact that historical science is based on the study of documentary and material facts left to us by our ancestors, found in archives and archaeological expeditions. And these facts can be interpreted in different ways. There are sections of history in which the debate about "how it was" will never end. But this is interesting for a narrow circle of specialists. And ideology is based on completely different principles. You cannot study ideology, you have to follow it like an order from above. You must love your homeland, your country, your people. And for this it is not necessary to emphasize negative facts, as many "writers" and "scientists" do in our country from a small mind or by personal calculation. As one great Russian writer said: "Truth is good, but happiness is better." The summary is: do not give any "controversial" topics in the textbook. Everything should be clear and understandable. Ryazan was burned by Batu in 1236. Yes, it was. Batu was the leader of one of the tribes that roamed the steppe with which Russia bordered, a kind of field commander, "bad", in general, a man. But Ryazan was revived by the labor of our people and today it stands as it did - this is the main thing. And Batu can also be understood, he wanted his people to eat their fill. Such is the story.
  41. The comment was deleted.
  42. 0
    22 January 2014 12: 44
    Maybe they taught me wrong at school, but the Tatars are Mongoloids, and the Turks are Europeans. And according to old maps, Tartaria (as many consider Tataria), there is an opinion that they called the kingdom of the dead, i.e., the dead kingdom or uninhabited lands. there seems to be nothing there (no cities and fortresses, no monetary unit, empire of nomads in yurts?)
  43. Svobodny
    +2
    22 January 2014 12: 55
    Battle of history. On the need to introduce the Russian (Slavic) concept of history


    With whom the battle is, let me ask as a patriot patriot. If the battle with pseudo-historians - rooster, pro-shame and other neopagan pseudoscientific evil spirits, then I am ready to join the battle.
  44. Alex_Popovson
    +2
    22 January 2014 13: 00
    About Hospadi. Why discuss something here? To return the Soviet history textbooks of the 70s and add to them the history of the 90-20s, without any ideologies, simply and briefly by date.
  45. 0
    22 January 2014 13: 21
    Yes, we are not the first to win these battles, and so the whole history of pre-Christian Russia has sunk into oblivion.
  46. +4
    22 January 2014 13: 24
    Quote: Max_Bauder
    When Batu conquered Russia, there were cities that helped, and there were those who were against it. And this thesis about the Scythians as if there was a single empire, with the capital in the barn and then in Moscow, is it funny, is this not amateurism? Do you distinguish Russian from Mongol appearance? Russians descended from the Slavs, who lived northeast of Byzantium, converted to Christianity, took their names, and then were reborn into a powerful state in the 10 or 11 century, this sounds true. Then he joined neighboring countries.

    There was no united empire since ancient times. peoples lived side by side, which were different and are different now.

    Read the book by academician Klesov with his study of the haplotype of the Slavs R1a, 20000 years ago, the ancestor of the Slavs created civilization in Siberia, from where he populated Europe and Asia. Our today's haplotype with the last mutation arose 4900 years ago and its homeland is Arkaim, southern Urals. From there, he migrated to India and Iran, as well as to the territory of today's eastern Europe and Russia. What are the Turks and the Mongols? One and the same haplotype, one people. Huns, whether Dinlini, the same haplotype.
    1. -1
      23 January 2014 01: 56
      Quote: Ross
      Read the book by academician Klesov with his study of the haplotype of the Slavs R1a, 20000 years ago, the ancestor of the Slavs created civilization in Siberia, from where he populated Europe and Asia.

      If a scientific hypothesis is true, it should be easy to understand and present. Don't try to use the authority of the word "academic". Educate the public about what a haploroup is? What is haplogroup R1a and why is it Slavic and not Lithuanian? And if the Huns have the same haplogroup, why is it Slavic and not "Huns"? By the way, are there any traces of a serious civilization in Arkaim? So serious that it is clear that from there people went to Iran, and not vice versa?
      1. 0
        23 January 2014 16: 04
        Quote: bot.su
        Enlighten the public, what is a haplogroup? What ...

        The argument is not for discussion on an online forum.
        Seek and find ye!
        .
        1. -1
          23 January 2014 16: 47
          Nevertheless. The questions are correct, and Ross's sketch is just a sketch. Why sketch? Because the "Slavic" haplogroup turns out to be not only Slavic, but also a fairly large group of Iranians, as well as Turks who came to the Iranian substratum. That is why the "ancestor of the Slavs" sounds like it is correct, but in fact it is a substitution of concepts, because the carrier of R1a can also be called the ancestor of other Indo-Europeans, and after the emergence of the Turkic Kaganate - and a large number of Turks.
        2. 0
          23 January 2014 16: 56
          Quote: Cynic
          Seek and find ye!

          So I searched. That's why I ask. If you answer these questions simply, without unnecessary terminology, then the ravings of Academician Klesov scatter in the sand. Klyosov, by the way, is a chemist, not a geneticist, or at least a biologist. That’s the whole misfortune of our state that mathematicians do not do mathematics, and chemists do not chemistry. That's why the mess. First in the head, then in the country!
          1. +1
            23 January 2014 17: 41
            Quote: bot.su
            So I searched. That's why I ask.

            Hmm _
            Quote: Ross
            Dear Botan. There is no room here to explain the male Y chromosome, which has not been changed for millennia in males. A haplotype is a genome code that is unique to all of us. Search search engines. Be sure to read A.A. Klesov, a professor at the Harvard University in the USA, the world's leading specialist in DNA genialology, our fellow countryman. The book is called: The Origin of the Slavs. DNA genialogy versus "Norman theory".

            Something is wrong in the "Danish kingdom"
            And which of you dear wattle can not come out of the shade?
  47. +1
    22 January 2014 13: 58
    Developed by my good friends, a training manual on the history of the Cossacks in twelve volumes for cadet schools and corps, about each of the Cossack troops in Russia. Where a complete reference is made to both historical documents and the conduct of wars over years and dates, I consider this work important and necessary. Author Sazonov A.A. famous researcher of the history of Russia (Rus) and ancient civilizations
  48. dmb
    +2
    22 January 2014 14: 21
    The last paragraph of the article about the Soviet textbook is interesting. That's just what Wasserman was going to "clean" him from, I don't quite understand? Either he proposes not to mention Marx and Lenin at all, or is he going to register there that they were Jews and the main goal of their lives was "the extermination of the Orthodox people." In the latter case, the approval of such a textbook by Svanidze, Abramovich and Chubais is guaranteed. Or maybe it is not necessary to indicate in it that Kolchak and Denikin, Wrangel and Yudenich, possessing brilliant theoretical and practical training, were nevertheless beaten on all fronts. Or we will modestly keep silent that the revolution was caused not so much by the "intrigues of the Freemasons" as by the mediocrity of the authorities and the poverty of the bulk of the population. By the way, I wonder what textbook suggests taking Wasserman as a basis, not a case of the Gorbachev period? Undoubtedly, Soviet textbooks were ideologized to a certain extent, just like textbooks of any country and any era. But they reflected the history of our country more or less correctly, within the framework of the concept of a single state. And there was much more patriotic education in them than in the currently discussed version. Indeed, if the current concept develops, the Russian Orthodox Church should at least exclude A. Nevsky and D. Donskoy from among the saints, the Kulikovo Field memorial must be demolished. There is a lot more you can do, especially if you listen to everyone at once.
    1. 0
      23 January 2014 23: 03
      As well, Cyril and Mythodius will not be the inventors of Russian writing.
      But if you leave them alone, then admit that at that time they simplified the Russian language to a more understandable Europeans who have poorer languages ​​than Old Slavonic.
  49. +1
    22 January 2014 14: 22
    The president acted on the principle of "both ours and yours." And so he does quite often. On the one hand, Vladimir Putin is right: all attempts to distort the history of Russia must be strictly suppressed. The historical (chronological) priority of managing society is one of the highest. With the help of history, it is possible to educate entire generations of “Ivanes who do not remember kinship”, to “transcode” the matrix of entire branches of a single superethnos of Russians. As already reprogrammed a significant part of the Rus (Russians) of Little Russia (Ukraine). Several centuries of “cultural cooperation” and the information war waged by the Vatican, Austria-Hungary, Germany, Poland and the Anglo-Saxons led to the creation of the “Ukrainian people”. The current events in Kiev are one of the consequences of this process. It is impossible to allow the geopolitical adversary to “work” with the population, to instill in him alien values, distorted knowledge.

    TOLD EVERYTHING CLEAR AND UNDERSTANDING - ADD NOTHING !!!

    Putin is completely right in the fact that the role of the Soviet people and the USSR in the Second World War cannot be belittled. - CAPITAL TRUTH !!!

    On the other hand, doubt about the words "ideological garbage." If the liberal nonsense of the sample of the 1990-2000s is removed in the new textbook of Russian history - excellent. Indeed, almost all “ideological rubbish” was introduced into history books during the existence of the Russian Federation, partly during the years of “perestroika”. It was during this period that Russia was subtly destroyed by information, ideological and historical weapons.

    AGAIN ON THE POINT !!!

    After all, the Soviet project is the model that modern Russia should strive for. It is clear that the USSR was not an ideal state, but this has never happened on the planet. Man and human society are subjective in nature. But it was the Stalinist USSR that gave all mankind hope for a different future than that which the "architects" of the West and their clients are building on the periphery of the "developed world."

    SO

    Indeed, a unified textbook of Russian history is needed, which can educate young people as patriots of Russia. Only a single ideology and history can make a nation strong, able to withstand external and internal threats. There should not be any confusion and reeling. History should instill a sense of national pride.

    Reasoning about the need for “teamwork” with foreign colleagues is stupidity and a strategic mistake. Historical science in the West, and indeed in the East, always carries out an ideological order. The method of "cultural cooperation" is a way of "information capture" of a foreign territory. At the same time, the Western "partners" carry out a kind of recruitment of Russian scientists. Traveling abroad, conferences, grants, awards, publications, popularity - these are “carrots”. A part of Russian scientists is included in a kind of “mafia”, which exercises control of the population through the introduction of false historical concepts. They introduce ideas about Russia's “secondary nature” in relation to European civilization, constant borrowing, the need to repent for the “historical crimes” of the Russian (Soviet) colonialists, Ivan the Terrible, Peter the Great, Catherine II, Stalin and other Russian emperors and statesmen, generals. Therefore, "foreign colleagues" in a cannon shot should not be allowed into Russian history.

    RESULTS - A BEAUTIFUL ARTICLE - TO THE AUTHOR 5 +++++++++++++++ - MORE THAN INFA IN MASMULTIMEDIA !!!
  50. +1
    22 January 2014 14: 31
    It all began for health, and ended with pseudo-historical nonsense about the geopolitical and geopolitics of the XII century. Article minus.
    1. 0
      22 January 2014 14: 49
      Is it worth it to be surprised? This kind of article only makes me smile. Let your pride amuse yourself with imaginary medieval grandeur!
      1. +1
        22 January 2014 15: 04
        I don’t understand this approach at all. Coming up with a story is like going to a plastic surgeon. Your nose will be corrected, but you will no longer be what you were. You have to live today and make sure that you can be proud of your deeds, and not come up with fairy tales about past greatness, getting a beggarly salary and each time agreeing to any measures of the authorities, which are trying to annoy even more.

        So here, the number of comments about all sorts of Hyperboreans and ancient Slavic civilizations, the historical knowledge of the authors of which are gathered only from the tabloid books of the next author who traveled, is simply amazing. Normal historical literature, in contrast to the aforementioned nonsense, is based on facts and proven methods of historical research. Unfortunately, the sweet nonsense about the greatness of the ancient Rus is much more pleasant sometimes bitter, but more or less true history of our country.
        1. +1
          22 January 2014 15: 30
          It seems to me that articles of this kind do not appear out of the blue. I do not exclude that behind the shaft of such "information" there may be a desire of individual subjects to correct entire historical periods, thereby turning a frivolous hypothesis into a legislatively enshrined fact at the state level. If earlier, when he began to read an article about the Arians or Hyperboreans, the author immediately pointed out that he in no way claims to be the ultimate truth, and the information he presented is only the fruit of his personal fantasy regarding a hypothetically possible scenario for the development of historical events. Now, this very fantasy, for some reason, begins to transform into an iron-proven fact, which was so carefully hidden by the enemies of the people and the state. I'm afraid, but it seems to me that such manipulations do not end well. Well, at least for some comrades, the roof is clearly beginning to slide down against the background of these semi-delusional tales.
          1. 0
            23 January 2014 17: 16
            Quote: romb
            It seems to me that articles of this kind do not appear out of the blue. I do not exclude that behind the shaft of such "information" there may be a desire of individual subjects to correct entire historical periods, thereby turning a frivolous hypothesis into a legislatively enshrined fact at the state level.

            Yes, there are not just individual subjects. There are whole groups of subjects. Here is a quote from the article:
            Further it will be possible to improve the history textbook due to refinements based on recent discoveries. And for this Russia needs an analogue of the German Ancestral Heritagebut without mystical and occult nonsense.

            A. Samsonov has been representing the National Socialists for a long time and consistently. And people cling to such "former greatness" because they are tired of the liberal mourners with their lamentations, throwing mud at our history. The people need a simple and understandable story, not watered with crap.
            But she doesn’t want to study. Is that bad.
        2. -1
          23 January 2014 23: 20
          In many ways I do not agree with you.
          Without knowing the past, history and values ​​with the customs of the ancestors, you simply get lost in the future and the line of movement in the historical line of development disappears.
          I already described an example of how, let’s say, neoliberals determined from some old found manuscripts which copies from the originals (the originals disappeared naturally on fire as always) established that the peoples of the twentieth country were engaged in gangbang blue-rose entertainment in the form of satisfactions at the law level and now they are neoliberals with full moral right can legislate a law to legalize these perversions in the law of this twentieth country. And here is the connection of the past, present and future.
          I mean, in no case should you forget the past, the legacy that your ancestors left for you and you need to keep it and dig further so that a complete picture of what is happening now and what will happen in the future emerges and this can be seen along the entire historical chain starting from the past. And to live in the present day is just the consumer, the stupid way of life of animals which the shepherds feed like a herd, but the shepherds know a lot of things, but are in no hurry to share information (very unprofitable from all points of view).
          Each nation has its pluses and minuses in history, but for some reason the Slavs have more minuses in official history, while tolerant and civilized ones have pluses.
  51. +2
    22 January 2014 15: 22
    Quote: kapustinmax
    Reasoning about the need for “teamwork” with foreign colleagues is stupidity and a strategic mistake.

    But it seems to me that we really need to pay attention to this point, not in terms of playing along with foreign comrades, but in terms of restoring historical justice, because when you pick up a foreign textbook (from many countries), it becomes, to put it mildly, unpleasant (all the same as the Second World War, the main versions two: ours and theirs), in one word, tighten up their noona...
  52. 0
    22 January 2014 15: 41
    Comrades! Let's be patient and wait for the release of this very single textbook!
    My reasoning on this topic is simple: many forum users have now expressed many good wishes about what should be contained in a single textbook - which means you and I have a general idea of ​​what a truly good textbook should be. What do we really know about the future textbook? Essentially only TWO facts - the “Tatar-Mongol yoke” was replaced by the “yoke of the Golden Horde”, and the February and October revolutions were united under the common name “Great Russian Revolution”.
    What is stated there and how the rest of our history is described is still unknown.
    Then the logical question is - why break spears now - the textbook won’t get better anyway. But after it becomes known to the general public, then we’ll “fight” hi
  53. +3
    22 January 2014 16: 07
    Once in Siberia, people hunted mammoths this way before the Ice Age. Time has passed, nothing at all. If the “first people,” according to the Old Testament, appeared in Judea much later, then who then taught the relatively “northern” peoples near today’s Voronezh (Kostenki) to build houses, fire pots, sew pants, and make jewelry for their beloved women? According to various estimates, 25-40 thousand years ago? Moreover, according to the skulls found there, according to Gerasimov’s reconstruction method, purely Slavic appearances emerged. Everything is in the museum and no one has denied these findings.
    But we believe that the ancient Romans, without pants, with copper axes and in summer sandals, walked across Europe to the British Isles. It looks like they dragged their entire fleet with them on their shoulders and carts. The same crap as the Monogol yoke.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. negeroi
      -1
      22 January 2014 17: 16
      Oh, there’s no need to remember Gerasimov in vain. According to his method, Neanderthals look like monkeys. But according to NOT Gerasimov, they are not much different from us, except that they were smarter than us. Gerasimov’s reconstructions are unreliable in a number of cases. To date, errors have been identified in his own method. So The “Slavic” appearance of people 25-40 thousand years ago is the same as the green men in Tau Ceti with the surname Ivanov. Gerasimov has long been refuted by our own students.

      As for the Romans and the mythical Mongols, I completely agree. Botanists often come up with crazy theories about the use of a shovel, because they have never held one in their hands. Before Soviet rule, the Mongols never dreamed about the empire or about the great ancestors. The truth is now and generations from Genghis are considered. But in Kazakhstan there were always Genghisids before the USSR. A strange thing, documents (half of the documents) from the times of the Horde were written in Russian, the other in Arabic, and there was never any Mongolian writing before the USSR.
      1. Cpa
        -1
        22 January 2014 22: 50
        Go to the museum at the Manege, read about “todo-bichig” and quadratic writing and translate it with a Mongolian dictionary from the cities of Tula, Tbilisi, Essentuki, Derbent, Yalta. Then use irony, but otherwise, do as you know. Someone really wants a Fourth Reich make from the country...
  54. +5
    22 January 2014 16: 50
    [quote=Orik] "Orik"

    “There is no pluralism. All this is in words, we must judge by deeds, and they are known as “Russian” Article 282...”

    Interesting! When They call themselves who THEY are several times during a TV program, this is pride in their ethnic group and in themselves. But when We call them the same, then this is already 282 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation!
    M. Zadornov said well at the last New Year's concert. - If we don’t love them, then we are anti-Semites, and that’s bad. If we don’t like blacks, then we are racists, and that’s bad. But all Russophobes are human rights activists.
    That's why our Medvedev's state is increasing the circulation of ombudsmen.
  55. +4
    22 January 2014 17: 14
    The greats have already spoken about this
  56. kvodrato
    0
    22 January 2014 17: 42
    The history of Russia or how they hid our past
  57. olviko
    +1
    22 January 2014 17: 43
    "The Russian (Slavic) concept of history should have existed yesterday."

    For those interested in the Slavs, read MAVRO ORBINI. "HISTORIOGRAPHY OF THE SLAVIC PEOPLE"
    http://communitarian.ru/publikacii/istoriya_rossii/mavro_orbini_istoriografiya_n
    aroda_slavyanskogo/
    1. Horde
      0
      22 January 2014 19: 50
      Quote: olviko
      http://communitarian.ru/publikacii/istoriya_rossii/mavro_orbini_istoriografiya_n

      aroda_slavyanskogo/


      element not found request
      1. olviko
        0
        22 January 2014 20: 21
        Go to http://communitarian.ru/.Then: History-History of Russia, on the third page you will find MAVRO ORBINI. "HISTORIOGRAPHY OF THE SLAVIC PEOPLE"
  58. +2
    22 January 2014 17: 58
    The point of the article is obvious - to rewrite history for political purposes.
    The article is a minus.
    One can agree with Anatoly Wasserman, who expressed the idea that a history textbook that will satisfy the majority of citizens of the Russian Federation can be made quite quickly.

    That is, Wasserman believes that the task of history is to “satisfy” someone. History should be a science, not a prostitute that “satisfies” everyone. Especially if the authorities put her in a comfortable position.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. negeroi
      -1
      22 January 2014 18: 44
      The media, ideally, should also inform. Ideally, bad people make up vanishingly small numbers. Ideally, everything in the state should work for the benefit of the people. Intelligence agencies should ideally prevent terrorist attacks. But everything that I listed exists only in PARADISE. In fact, all over the world for there is a digestible version for the plebs. Not a single people has a deep knowledge of History; everyone believes in specially written fairy tales. The textbook is the source of fairy tales. And it was and will be. Any Soviet history textbook for school is an anthology of fairy tales. And also a textbook for schools and gymnasiums of the Russian Empire. The so-called real history, now and before, was present in some textbooks for universities, but more and more in research, which is of no use to anyone except those who are interested, of which only a few. It has been and will be. Why argue when the subject of the dispute is far-fetched and sucked out of thin air? Everything remains as it was.
  59. 0
    22 January 2014 18: 23
    Putin or someone else comes and goes. And we have to live.
  60. grotto
    +2
    22 January 2014 18: 24
    Of course, we need a history of Russian civilization from the standpoint of science. But the question is whether the authors can firmly adhere to the scientific position. Will they slip into conciliation according to the principle “if only there is no war?”
  61. -1
    22 January 2014 19: 14
    Let us consider some important points from the history of the Fatherland, which the works of the Great Eurasian help us clarify, with due attention to them and sufficient diligence. There is a well-known statement by L.N. Gumilyov: “The fiction is far from harmless, both in relation to Russians and Tatars, must be exposed and dispelled. Why should a person be ashamed of an ethnonym shrouded in legends as something shameful? Know that this is a proud name! For the sake of truth, and not for the sake of pseudoscientific, political or some other conjuncture, I, a Russian person, have been defending the Tatars from slander all my life. They are in our blood, in our history, in our language, in our attitude. It seems to me completely natural to have this idea: whatever the real differences with the Russians, the Tatars are a people not outside, but within us.” If you become familiar enough with the content of L.N.’s works. Gumilyov, and besides, analyze the information from the sources to which the Great Eurasian directs us, it becomes clear that all his life he defended from slander the very people (ethnic group) that was the state-forming ethnic group of the Mongol-Tatar state. And the representative of the same people was also the founder and first ruler of this power - the first in the history of mankind, as will be explained below, the ruler of a huge state elected by representatives of his people - Chyngyz Khan (this name-title is given by me in the spelling closest to its original sound in the native language of its speaker). - http://tartareurasia.ucoz.com/
  62. +2
    22 January 2014 19: 36
    In order to learn the pre-Christian history of Rus', one must cooperate with Western historians. Because The Orthodox Church, for obvious reasons, “erased” the history that existed before it, then the “Germans” rewrote it. In Western libraries there are manuscripts from before the twentieth century and the early centuries after the twentieth century, from which, through comparison, at least something can be restored. Orbini read, also a book ordered by the Bosnian princes (who orders, is glorified), of course there is some truth, but not yet provable.
    1. +3
      22 January 2014 19: 42
      Quote: Boris63
      In order to learn the pre-Christian history of Rus', one must cooperate with Western historians.

      The idea is correct, but, in my opinion, inaccurate.
      The only one who has the necessary knowledge and knows what it is keeping is the Vatican.
    2. olviko
      +3
      22 January 2014 20: 50
      "Orbini read, also a custom book"

      Well, if you approach it this way, then all such books are custom-made. The West, after all, intensively wrote history for itself. Books like this were deliberately destroyed in Western Europe and in Rus' during the Romanov era. The list of prohibited books since 1559 was compiled by the Catholic Church in Italy, the Vatican. Books that were included in this list were destroyed throughout Europe from the middle of the 1614th century. In Russia, many books have been destroyed since the 1601th century. To understand the reason, it is enough to read an excerpt from it: “The Russian people are the most ancient people on earth, from which all other peoples descended. The Empire, with the courage of its warriors and the best weapons in the world, kept the entire universe in obedience and submission for thousands of years. The Russians have always owned all of Asia, Africa, Persia, Egypt, Greece, Macedonia, Illyria, Moravia, the Slön Land, the Czech Republic, Poland, all the shores of the Baltic Sea, Italy and many other countries and lands.. What is it like to read to “especially cultured” Europeans! And the last thing: Help. Mavro Orbini (? - † XNUMX), Ragusa, now Dubrovnik (Dubrovnik) - Croatian historian, founder of Yugoslav historical science (according to another version, he was Archimandrite Raguzhsky, an Italian historian). He was a monk at the Benedictine monastery on the island of Mljet, then an abbot. Author of the book “The Slavic Kingdom” (XNUMX, in Italian), in which he tried to give the history of all Slavic peoples. The Vatican destroyed or hid the works of the very authors to whom Orbini referred, so his review seems to hang in the air for us: we do not know such authors. But Mavro Orbini showed us clear examples of the destruction of historical sources (this story largely repeated the activities of the Pharisees in destroying historical sources that refuted the “truths of the Torah and Talmud”)
      http://communitarian.ru/publikacii/istoriya_rossii/mavro_orbini_istoriografiya_n
      aroda_slavyanskogo/
  63. klim44
    -2
    22 January 2014 19: 58
    Aryan - this word in the article touches. We will prove that the Sdavenians, and in particular the Russians, are true Aryans with a Nordic character. I'm tired of all these "battles" over history, harvest and other nonsense. Our history is a complete myth, why fight for myths. It is necessary to at least describe the next three centuries of Russia truthfully, to call things by their proper names, and not to meddle in Scythian and Aryan history.
  64. +3
    22 January 2014 20: 01
    “Pure” history, not ideologized by the state and the church, could only exist in handwritten chronicles, in monastery cells.
    Any printed history was edited by those in power and church hierarchs at their own discretion and therefore should be viewed critically.
    History is a statement of facts presented in chronological order, where the story begins and ends.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. negeroi
      +1
      22 January 2014 20: 52
      Where did it come from pure? People wrote it, and it was not much different from modern fairy tales. A handwritten story is no purer than a printed one. In those days, everything was the same as now, where did you get the idea that there were no commentators before, when the Greeks and the Romans did just that, retelling more ancient tales. And in later times, nothing changed. You are right in one thing that ANY story should be perceived critically. In the monastery cells there were as many abbots as you wanted, who, through the prism of Christianity and their understanding, gave the TsU to the scribes and, scribes. Just like now, there are Deans of departments, and there are Rectors who give the Central Administration. Where have you seen impartial historians? Where does this idealization of ancient scribes and antediluvian historians come from? You also believe in someone’s fairy tales that there used to be People and now people, and the grass is greener and all that?
  65. Puffed up
    +1
    22 January 2014 20: 31
    It’s a great sin for Russians. They betrayed their ancestors. The king was killed, his children were killed. The stinking mummy was then placed on Red Square. There is no peace. Hence we live under vile adversaries. And they themselves became vile. And the dwarf is happy. He rages and jumps. It's nice to know that he can rule over such cattle. And here on the site there are a lot of black people. They have big titles, like toys, but their souls are black. negative It won't be good for them. wink They defend Putin. And whoever gives me a minus then there will be no way for him. laughing
    1. 0
      22 January 2014 22: 16
      Quote: Puffed
      It’s a great sin for Russians.

      One thing is good, even though you are not one of them.
  66. Cpa
    0
    22 January 2014 23: 14
    Of course, genetic science has proven that Russians are without genetic impurities, but let’s take one of the Russians on the site and conduct another analysis, well, for statistics. This result is very interesting to me.
    1. +2
      22 January 2014 23: 48
      And what? Even interesting. On my father's side, my grandfather is from White Rus', oh Russian. Grandmother is from the same place, but on the right bank. She learns about the current borders - she is Ukrainian, but she did not speak English. On the maternal side - Russian Siberians. My wife’s grandfather’s grandmother was from Russian Kharkov, when it was the administrative center of Little Russia. But I didn’t speak English either. Grandfather is from Russian Poland. On the maternal side - Russian Siberians.
    2. +1
      22 January 2014 23: 48
      And what? Even interesting. On my father's side, my grandfather is from White Rus', but Russian. Grandmother is from the same place, but on the right bank. She learns about the current borders - she is Ukrainian, but she did not speak English. On the maternal side - Russian Siberians. My wife’s grandfather’s grandmother was from Russian Kharkov, when it was the administrative center of Little Russia. But I didn’t speak English either. Grandfather is from Russian Poland. On the maternal side - Russian Siberians.
  67. Sergey XXX
    +2
    22 January 2014 23: 34
    Wonderful, practical, concise article. Moreover, in my opinion, it is not only high time to return the positive meaning to the words “propaganda”, “ideology” and “education”, which have been corrupted by liberoid ideology, but also to fully use what is inherent in them.
  68. kavkaz8888
    +2
    23 January 2014 02: 19
    "...for this Russia needs an analogue of the German “Heritage of Ancestors”..."
    Why didn’t anyone pay attention to these words? YOU HAVE TO REALLY. Only mystics, please, less. And there are, for example, more excavations.
  69. both s69
    0
    23 January 2014 06: 55
    Quote: Genur
    ... still not enough - consult with the Russian Orthodox Church. These Ridigers and the Gundyaevs will advise

    Are you allergic to these names? Do you know them personally? Judging by the news from the box about things (persons) fundamental for a normal (not completely wretched in mind) person is bad manners; negative I gave your conclusion a minus (although I try not to give minuses at all).
  70. 0
    23 January 2014 11: 41
    Quote: bot.su
    Quote: Ross
    Read the book by academician Klesov with his study of the haplotype of the Slavs R1a, 20000 years ago, the ancestor of the Slavs created civilization in Siberia, from where he populated Europe and Asia.

    If a scientific hypothesis is true, it should be easy to understand and present. Don't try to use the authority of the word "academic". Educate the public about what a haploroup is? What is haplogroup R1a and why is it Slavic and not Lithuanian? And if the Huns have the same haplogroup, why is it Slavic and not "Huns"? By the way, are there any traces of a serious civilization in Arkaim? So serious that it is clear that from there people went to Iran, and not vice versa?

    Dear Botan. There is no room here to explain the male Y chromosome, which has not been changed for millennia in males. A haplotype is a genome code that is unique to all of us. Search search engines. Be sure to read A.A. Klesov, a professor at the Harvard University in the USA, the world's leading specialist in DNA genialology, our fellow countryman. The book is called: The Origin of the Slavs. DNA genialogy versus "Norman theory".
    1. 0
      23 January 2014 18: 21
      Klesov is not the most authoritative source, whose theories are criticized by the scientific community. So can you suggest something more adequate?
      1. +1
        23 January 2014 19: 42
        Quote: Basileus
        Klesov is not the most authoritative source, whose theories are criticized by the scientific community.

        So there are more authoritative ones? And what do they preach?
        It’s stupid to open your mouth with criticism if you have nothing better to offer in return.

        So what are your suggestions?
    2. +2
      23 January 2014 21: 30
      Quote: Ross
      Search in search engines

      This is too complex a question to trust to search engines. You can't do without studying the basics of genetics.

      Quote: Ross
      Be sure to read A.A. Klesov, a professor at Harvard University in the USA, the world's leading specialist in DNA genealogy, and our fellow countryman.

      Harvard University doesn't impress me. The chemist is a leading specialist in DNA genealogy. What, the chemistry didn't work out? Decided to make money from the nobles? Genealogy is a custom science. There is an artistic film, not without humor - 1612.
      "Lead from Rurik and let Genghis Khan be in the family!
      -So it’s no wonder to weave in Genghis Khan, but how will a Gishpanian get into Rurik’s family if he’s a Gishpan?
      “Don’t shoot questions at me, use your brain!”
      This “think about it” when the money is paid is a very controversial motive for the development of science.

      Quote: Ross
      Origin of the Slavs. DNA genealogy versus the "Norman theory".

      Apples and uncle in Kiev.

      Honestly, do you understand why haplotype R1a is the haplotype of the Slavs? Or did they believe the series of numbers and the Harvard academician?
      For the Germans, clarification on the Aryan question began after the defeat near Moscow and with the fall of Berlin it became completely clear. They are still persecuting the Nazis. I wonder when we will realize that ancient history is not the place to look for pseudo-greatness? Even if Rurik was a Swede, he was invited to pre-existing state. That’s it, I don’t need any more proof of the greatness of the Slavs. And so everything is clear, without haplogroups.
      And the fact that a person from the outside was invited with his squad... So look at today’s Maidan. It will all end soon there laughing
      1. -1
        23 January 2014 22: 03
        Quote: bot.su
        he was invited to an already existing state.

        Sorry dear nerd.su , but as if more politely, in general _ the Tatar-Mongol Igo and the Swede Rurik are words from the same song.
        Some came and conquered - they paid tribute for 300 years, the other came and civilized the wild Rus.
        Quote: bot.su
        pre-existing state

        Sorry, but according to the accepted interpretation of historical information, the Russians did not have a state before Rurik! There was no BASTA!
        One medieval traveler’s book about traveling through Russian lands does not mention Kyiv. What conclusions do you think can be drawn from this?
        1. +1
          23 January 2014 22: 36
          Quote: Cynic
          Sorry dear nerd.su, but to be more polite, in general _ the Tatar-Mongol Igo and the Swede Rurik are words from the same song.
          Some came and conquered - they paid tribute for 300 years, the other came and civilized the wild Rus.

          Well, if we assume that this song is called “History of the Russian State,” then it’s from one. Only the verses are very far from each other.
          There was an invasion. One can argue how many Mongols were in it, but to deny the invasion means to stupidly ignore the facts from the history of Central Asia, China, Korea and Japan.
          As for what he came and condemned, only a person who takes an anti-scientific position can accept this. The state cannot be imposed from the outside.
          Let me quote Mavrodin, a historian of the Stalin era, found in Wikipedia’s article “Normanism”:
          Naturally, the “scientific” servants of world capital strive at all costs to discredit and denigrate the historical past of the Russian people, to belittle the importance of Russian culture at all stages of its development. They “deny” the Russian people the initiative to create their own state.[…]
          These examples are quite enough to come to the conclusion that the thousand-year-old legend about the “calling of the Varangians” Rurik, Sineus and Truvor “from beyond the sea”, which long ago should have been archived along with the legend about Adam, Eve and the serpent, the tempter, the global flood, Noah and his sons, is being revived by foreign bourgeois historians in order to serve as a weapon in the struggle of reactionary circles with our worldview, our ideology.[…]
          Soviet historical science, following the instructions of Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin, based on the comments of comrades Stalin, Kirov and Zhdanov on the “Outline of a textbook on the History of the USSR”, developed a theory about the pre-feudal period, as the period of the birth of feudalism, and about the barbarian state that emerged at this time, and applied this theory to specific materials from the history of the Russian state. Thus, in the theoretical constructions of the founders of Marxism-Leninism, there is and cannot be a place for the Normans as the creators of the state among the “wild” East Slavic tribes.


          That's all. The state already existed, so it didn’t matter who Rurik was.
  71. 0
    23 January 2014 23: 19
    If the distortion of History has already taken place, then isn’t it in our power, Citizens, to truthfully describe the Present Today for History?.. How to achieve an accurate description of present life? Who is writing the current chronicle for posterity? - The chroniclers do not show this to us, because they are already distorting reality (most likely)...
  72. 0
    24 January 2014 00: 07
    It can be assumed that history is, in principle, more or less correct in terms of dates, but the most interesting thing is that some key dates are either missing, or the interpretation of events has been replaced and the overall picture of history is already different. And what happened before the Christian period in Russia allegedly did not exist at all and this is also a substitution. It’s easier to exclude something altogether from circulation and discussion than to write a long story about it, and even so that it is more or less truthful.
    Well, where did the white race come from?
    - well, not from the south after the monkeys.
    - neither from the east or the American continent.
    - only from the north and settled further.
    And what the Germans were looking for for the Aryans was so correct, because they, like us, are descendants of the same race, like all whites. And it’s pure nonsense to talk about their research into their ancestors, which is completely wrong, because they were looking in quite the right places and were on the right path and did a lot of research, as well as being interested in the Russian north and lands. And the fact that they did this to please their leaders meant that they were clearly working for a state whose leader imagined greatness beyond the people. But the Germans are pedantic and carried out bit by bit research and excavations and there is a lot of interesting stuff there for us for the Aryans.
  73. 0
    24 January 2014 00: 34
    Quote: Basileus
    Klesov is not the most authoritative source, whose theories are criticized by the scientific community. So can you suggest something more adequate?

    He writes very politely and correctly in his book about this “criticism.” Not a single serious argument! Historians argue, but Klesov writes aptly - he offers only the facts of migrations, ironclad in genomes by haplotype mutations and as a result of a mass analysis of tens of thousands of people in the corresponding countries. What is he writing about? For example, how can one, for example, call the people of Arkaim Indo-Europeans if a similar gene in India will appear only after 600 or more years? Some “Indo-Europeans” have not yet reached India, but historians are already calling them Indo-Europeans. So historians told him that they know what arias are, but the name arias are TABOO!
  74. 0
    24 January 2014 00: 46
    Quote: bot.su
    Quote: Ross
    Be sure to read A.A. Klesov, a professor at Harvard University in the USA, the world's leading specialist in DNA genealogy, and our fellow countryman.

    Harvard University doesn't impress me. The chemist is a leading specialist in DNA genealogy. What, the chemistry didn't work out? Decided to make money from the nobles? Genealogy is a custom science. There is an artistic film, not without humor - 1612.
    "Lead from Rurik and let Genghis Khan be in the family!
    -So it’s no wonder to weave in Genghis Khan, but how will a Gishpanian get into Rurik’s family if he’s a Gishpan?
    “Don’t shoot questions at me, use your brain!”
    This “think about it” when the money is paid is a very controversial motive for the development of science.

    You touch me. A man of the first magnitude in his field of science, Russian and patriot - he directly writes that he is sick when Russians are compared to a wild beast living in dugouts before the arrival of Christians, and for the last 10 years he has been conducting extensive research around the world of haplotypes and knows the true truth. And what many times he offered his information to historians, these unfortunate official “historians” openly told him - we’re afraid, taboo! And he writes that I am not afraid, my name in science allows it. And I can’t remain silent. And what is important is that in many ways his information fits perfectly with historical science and simply clarifies many narrow issues that they do not understand. For example, where did the Trypillian culture come from in Ukraine? And it is also very consistent, for example, with the book of Abbot Orbini, with the Indian Vedas and other sources. He is criticized for the term Aryans instead of Indo-Europeans and for the fact that the first ancestor of the Aryans came from Siberia and not from Africa laughing
    1. 0
      24 January 2014 12: 09
      Quote: Ross
      Russian and patriot

      A professor at an American university—whose patriot is he? Although I don't blame him for being an American patriot. He doesn't look like that. Rather a patriot of the American way of life.
      Quote: Ross
      it bothered him when Russians were compared to a wild beast living in dugouts before the arrival of Christians

      This is how they compare it in the USA. So they saved everyone from fascism in World War II. Did Klesov try to fight these allegations? Much more relevant.
      I learned history from Soviet textbooks. And there was no such x.. nor about dugouts anywhere. And I don’t care who Rurik was, because one person could not create a state. Moreover, he was invited. Or they said that they invited smile
      Moreover, there might not have been any Rurik. A myth was created to legalize the dynasty and business. And now we can only talk about those times with hypotheses, either it was like this or that way. By the way, the halogroup does not guarantee that its owners did not live in dugouts.

      Quote: Ross
      And what many times he offered his information to historians, these unfortunate official “historians” openly told him - we’re afraid, taboo!

      What the hell is a taboo? If Fomenko publishes his opuses, then Klesov looks more adequate in comparison with him. Well, just because professionals don’t take them into account, professionals never take amateurs into account.
      Regarding the fact that his information fits in with historical facts, I will refrain from answering for now. I read his works more carefully, so to speak. To criticize, to criticize smile
      1. 0
        24 January 2014 16: 02
        Quote: bot.su
        What the hell is a taboo?

        But you are respected nerd.su confused. You're confused, right?
        Nowadays, official science is beyond envy. There is more and more information, thanks to archaeologists and other researchers, but the theories and hypotheses are old, and oh so politicized.
        And also about taboos, excuse me, the swastika sign is not only taboo, there is an article in the Criminal Code for it shines !
        The question is why? How many thousands of years old is this sign and its use? Well ?
        Associations with the Third Reich, so eradicate the Germanic letters and language, they My struggle printed and the Fuhrer spoke with the SS Aryans!
        You can’t?
        Why
        Not German letters, but is the Fuhrer even Austrian?
        So the swastika was not invented by the Nazis, just like the arias!
        Still down-to-earth?
        Still associated with lack of education?
        So we came to the reason _ IGNORANCE! I dare say _ CULTIVATED and what we have now FORCED!
        No matter how sad it is, but

        About greedy people, braggarts and fools
        While the bouncers live in the world,
        we must glorify our destiny.
        What a blue sky!
        We are not supporters of robbery.
        A knife doesn’t need a bouncer:
        you will sing him a little -
        and do what you like with him.

        As long as the greedy around
        We won’t lose our luck.
        What a blue sky!
        We are not supporters of robbery.
        A knife is not needed for greedy:
        show him a penny
        and do what you like with him.

        As long as there are fools in the world,
        deception we live, therefore, with the hand.
        What a blue sky!
        We are not supporters of robbery.
        A fool doesn’t need a knife:
        you’re lying to him with three boxes -
        and do what you like with him.

        What a blue sky!
        These three live in the world.
        Thank God there is no end to them.
        As the saying goes, the beast runs -
        and right on the catcher!
        1. 0
          24 January 2014 18: 29
          Quote: Cynic
          But you, dear nerd.su, are confused

          Dear Cynic, do not wishful thinking. This is one of the mistakes of Klyosov and others like him laughing

          Quote: Cynic
          Nowadays, official science is beyond envy. There is more and more information, thanks to archaeologists and other researchers, but the theories and hypotheses are old, and oh so politicized.

          Everything is fine with official science. Not a single serious archaeologist supports Klyosov. All of them are amateurs, they read a couple of books, and during their school years they went to excavations for a week. There is not a single archaeological confirmation of speculation about the Aryans. Serious paleogeneticists also don’t know Klyosov. Only serious genealogists laughing And genealogy is the science of the Middle Ages; it was designed to substantiate the right to the throne of a particular dynasty. That is, a kind of mixture of drawing, political science and jurisprudence. In short, complete boasters about the name of the female genital organ.

          As for the taboo on the swastika, it is justified. The latest “popularizers” of the swastika have tried. And the fact that the article shines for it is because the scumbags who use it do not hide whose ideas inspire them until the case comes to court. Then immediately “oh, this is an ancient Slavic symbol of the sun.”
          What a taboo, Mein Kampf was published in Russian. Nationalists are almost heroes of our time. Come to your senses.
          1. 0
            24 January 2014 19: 35
            Quote: bot.su
            Don't wishful thinking. This is one of the mistakes of Klyosov and others like him

            For example ?
            Quote: bot.su
            As for the taboo on the swastika, it is justified.

            Quote: bot.su
            Come to your senses.

            Here's the article for me no need to sew .
            And I’m actually familiar with this way of distorting the discussion _
            So when will you stop beating your wife? Come to your senses!

            The most valuable and necessary knowledge must be constantly revised and re-evaluated.

            Current historical knowledge does not stand up to the test of elementary logic.
            1. 0
              24 January 2014 21: 03
              Quote: Cynic
              For example ?

              For example, Klyosov believes that his discovery has the effect of a bomb exploding. And the scientific community claims that he just farted loudly.

              Quote: Cynic
              But I don’t need to write an article.

              I don’t even know how to sew! Sew on, if only... A button, for example laughing

              Quote: Cynic
              Current historical knowledge does not stand up to the test of elementary logic.

              So they can’t stand it? Elementary logic? Example?
              1. 0
                24 January 2014 21: 45
                Quote: bot.su
                And the scientific community claims that he just farted loudly.

                It is very difficult to distinguish a person in absentia from the mask he is wearing.
                Only here there is a nuance, sometimes the mask grows tightly and cannot be removed, so a person with someone else’s mask lives someone else’s life.
                Arrivederci Rome

                hi
                1. 0
                  24 January 2014 21: 56
                  I didn’t quite understand about Rome... well, God bless him! hi
  75. -1
    24 January 2014 15: 56
    Quote: Luzhichanin
    well, if only because the Orthodox Church in Russia only became under Stalin.


    What did the church become under Stalin??? You “respect” me as a descendant of clergy, don’t tell me about the church and communism!!!!
  76. 0
    24 January 2014 16: 38
    He sat for a long time and thought to answer you.
    There is simply no alternative course of history! There is a HISTORY. If you want an alternative, read science fiction. Only then you don’t need to refer to this as facts smile .
    But the facts are such that the royal monarchy is rotten and allowed itself to be overthrown.
    The USSR was built by the efforts of the entire Soviet people. And the Red Army was created that broke the ridge of fascism.
    For me, it makes no difference Russian people or not. If only he worked, served for the good of the country.
    And from the post above, you still did not answer the questions posed: did you hear about the February revolution? And who created the soldiers' committees? And when did the order No.1 come out?


    I'm glad that you are interested in my opinion. Let's start in order from the end ;):
    1. “About the post above” I made two comments, but they came out one after the other, and it so happened that this was not a response to your post. I APOLOGIZE for the misleading information.

    Regarding alternatives:
    2. I don’t argue with the achievements of the USSR, it was a great country.
    3. And I don’t understand your commitment to our “ideal” and pure history.
    For example:
    My beloved grandmother's cousin was taken to an unknown direction and disappeared... Do you know why? For returning from the forest with a basket of mushrooms for the sake of a joke, he hung it on the Lenin statue at arm's length.
    The neighbor of the same grandmother during the war and during the war lost his party card... then I think you can guess for yourself
    The USSR was built through the efforts of the entire Soviet people.

    Answer. So to speak about the unity of the Soviet people is the result of the civil war of 18-20. more than 15 million people were killed, died of hunger and disease, mass emigration (more than 2,5 million people), economic devastation, the tragedy of entire social groups (officers, Cossacks, intelligentsia, nobility, clergy, etc.), society’s addiction to violence and terror, rupture of historical and spiritual traditions (almost complete cessation of the Russian Orthodox Church).
    And that was the beginning.

    4. If you are interested, you can read Mendeleev’s memoirs about the achievements of RI under Nicholas II, here is a link for you: http://www.liveinternet.ru/users/olgafov/rubric/4120847/, and a couple of years and mass famine, decline in production.... And then the “goatherds” and “male nuns who haven’t undergone rites”, the guys started shouting, we’re in the ASS, come on, RUSSIAN people, tear your belly button, but for free and in 5 years do what is designed for 10 years. And then we'll come up with something else.

    5. And in conclusion, for thought (I’m thinking about this myself now), but if the USSR collapsed, then that too
    But the facts are such that the royal monarchy is rotten and allowed itself to be overthrown.
    BUT!!!! again there is one FACT!!!! The best people of Tsarist Russia fought and died for the Empire, but no one fought FOR the USSR... Somehow, everyone quickly got tired of him and not a century has passed.

    P.C. Don't judge strictly ;) And as for HISTORY - it is unchanged, but the alternative of events cannot be denied, as well as the fact that nothing can be returned. There is one FACT that you will not deny. In the USSR, the Russians did not rule, we were the lower class of the population, they did not even trust us to build pigsties, the Azerbaijanis built them for us.
  77. 0
    24 January 2014 17: 50
    You have written a lot of all sorts of letters and more and more negative, not positive. It is clear that the history of any country has both minuses and pluses, but at the moment you were minus everything.
    It happens that the enemy for a country is not only internal, but also external, and the external one usually controls the internal one, and one gets the impression that no one is to blame but themselves, that is, the internal enemy has ruined and ruined everything, and the external one has nothing to do with it.
    For example: A successful company is working and developing and at a wonderful moment a black line began when there are no orders, the money runs out and valuable specialists leave. What is the reason, and of course there are several of them, but there is the most important one from which everything comes “Competitor”. He brought down prices for goods (temporarily), he occupied your production niche and selected clients (perhaps bribed top managers), he has eyes and ears in your company.
    Main goal: To remove you from the road using all available methods and the main thing is that you don’t know about it because there will immediately be countermeasures that will prevent the plan from succeeding.
    This is exactly how countries work among themselves and the Euro-Americans and those in power do it best. So think in your spare time who, after all, destroyed the Russian Empire and the USSR and who is still organizing revolutions.
    What I mean is that we shouldn’t blame everything on the people and history in which these same comrades are trying to prove to us that our people are bullshit and worthless and don’t allow us to study and understand even our own history, whatever it may be - this is also a plan to eliminate competitor on the historical road. It is not designed for you, but for the future generation, and we must fight and fight for our future generation, raising patriotism and love for the Motherland, no matter how good or bad it may be.
    And you are mistaken in that no one fought for the USSR. Everyone fought with their own labor (to feed the weak and frail blacks and brothers in politics and alliance), and the military defended the policy of the socialist camp in hot spots with faith in a just war.
  78. +1
    24 January 2014 23: 00
    At the beginning of the article is a painting by the Russian patriot and talented artist Konstantin Vasiliev, “Filin,” who left us early.
    1. 0
      24 January 2014 23: 27
      [/ Center]
      Quote: PValery53
      painting by the Russian patriot and talented artist Konstantin Vasiliev who left us early

      Thank you very much for mentioning the great artist, Russian artist.