Military Review

Phase Shift, or Who Stole Electricity

167
Keep warm and light



The article on restricting electricity consumption in Russia has generated so many strong indignations of the “poor” electorate. Many already admitted that the country's leadership purposefully destroys the population. And it didn’t occur to anyone before succumbing to the herd instinct and writing angry comments, see the link provided in the article, think a little bit and ask a question. Why, in fact, it is generally necessary to limit energy consumption? From an economic point of view, it seems somewhat strange to restrict the sale of goods, and this is a loss both for the state and for generating companies - well, not at all logical. Is the government and business going against it?

For the sake of fairness, it’s worth noting that this is not about a full limit, but only about a limit on the minimum price limit, which means that by consuming electricity above the limit, you will simply pay more! This explanation looks more or less reasonable. Well, and who consumes in excess of the limit? If you have a pair of light bulbs and a boiler, i.e. you are really a poor person, then this restriction will hardly affect you, and therefore, it cannot cause disturbances on your part. On the other hand, this law really hits those who have a large number of electrical appliances and use them intensively, that is, it directly concerns rich people.

After reading the perturbed comments, it seems that this restriction on the website hurt not quite the poor stratum of society! Especially when you consider that the very same people who criticize the authorities constantly talk about their widespread poverty and impoverishment. A kind of contradiction emerges in their personal understanding of events or a lack of their own reasoning. Well, why load your brain with unnecessary meditations, if everything is clear for them. It is clear that the body is dark ...

And in order to enlighten some bodies at least a little, we will not dig deep and turn for information to Wikipedia (for children) and to the official website of the Ministry of Energy of the Russian Federation (for adults). Immediately you can be warned that both resources in general do not contradict each other.

So, electricity in Russia is mainly produced at thermal, nuclear and hydroelectric power plants. The UES of Russia electric power complex includes about 700 power plants with a capacity exceeding 5 MW. At the end of 2012, the total installed capacity of UES of Russia power plants was 223 070,83 MW. As a result of 2011, 1,05 trillion kWh of electricity was produced in Russia, thereby practically reaching the level of electricity production in the RSFSR in 1986. It amounted to 1,01 trillion. kWh In total, the USSR produced 1,5 trillion. kWh The main consumer of electricity (2010) is production, 550 billion kWh. 55% increase per year (2010-09), 20 billion kWh. That is, half of all the generated electricity is used precisely in production. It would be interesting to look at the very “completely collapsed” industry, which consumes so much electricity, by the way, throughout the USSR at the beginning of the 80s. production used about 700 billion kWh. Based on these figures, we can assume that production decreased by about 30%, well, and taking into account the increase in energy efficiency of the consumer equipment, even less if you add a service sector equal to today 120 billion kWh, 11% increase per year (2010-09) 9 billion kWh, even more. Utilities sector - 130 billion kWh, 12% annual growth (2010-09), 6 billion kWh, while consumption growth in the utility sector is constant, independent of crises and can serve as an indirect indicator actual growth of citizens' well-being. Losses in power grids - 100 billion kWh Associated with a large length of power lines, etc. The rest falls on different regions, agricultural, transport, etc.

Where is the electricity, is not yet clear? Speak, export? Ok, let's see.

Russia exports electricity in significant volumes, mainly to Finland, Lithuania, China, Mongolia. In 2009, Russia exported 17,9 billion kWh of electricity worth $ 789 million, in 2010 year 19,0 billion kWh of $ 1,03 billion, despite the fact that half of all exports come from Finland. By the way, in the distant 1990, exports were equal to 43 billion kWh when imported into 35 billion kWh. Affected the collapse of the USSR. Electricity imports to Russia today amount to about 3 billion kWh, it remains almost unchanged and mainly accounts for Kazakhstan. The total export volumes of electricity from Russia are ridiculously meager compared to the volumes of its production and constitute only 2% and 8% of the combined utilities and services sector. If the electricity supplied for export is divided per inhabitant, then about 11 kWh per person will be needed per month. Recently, there has been a decline in exports to Europe, for them, see whether our electricity is very expensive.

Let's see what other options can be the use of electricity for other purposes? Maybe in the permafrost grow snowdrops?

Well, and here is the problem, see the data of the Ministry of Energy for the production of thermal energy as secondary energy after the production of the same CHP, TPP and electric NPP. In addition, you can (it is cheaper) directly use fuel resources such as coal, oil and gas, ... firewood, and at the same time burn your own and ancient ones like a mammoth and poop))).

We are going further, and if we still try to suggest such, in the opinion of some, not quite logical and not correct option, that electric power still does not disappear anywhere and no one steals it. Then another question is fair, why is it still lacking?

The last 5-7 years in major cities of Russia, the main driver of energy consumption growth has become the service sector and the population. So, in Moscow in 2000-2005. The share of the population accounted for 84% of the increase in electricity consumption, while the share of electricity consumption by the population and the household sector in total consumption rose to 63%. On the one hand, the demand for electricity is generated by the increasing use of various electrical appliances in everyday life due to the transition of a significant part of the population in cooking food from gas to electricity, electric kettles, electric stoves, microwaves, etc., by the way, even though electricity it costs much more (yeah, everything is getting poorer and poorer).

So, maybe, after all, no one stole it? And is its lack connected with the natural growth of production and the economy of Russia as a whole? Yes, that is right! Do not agree?

Lack of energy can really become a significant factor in restraining a country's economic growth. To fill the increasing needs of the economy and the population as a whole in electricity, additional capacity is needed. And immediately the main question arises: where to get them? The first method is extremely long and capital-intensive: the path of increasing oil and gas production and the construction of new power generation facilities. The second is much less expensive, due to the increased efficiency of the use of fuel and energy resources. It should be noted that in practice, a symbiosis of the first and second variants is necessary, with an undoubted priority of energy efficiency. What is happening: in Russia, the construction of energy facilities is actively underway. Over the 2011 year, more than 6 GW of new generating capacity was introduced, which is a record level from the 1985 of the year. In addition, Russia has a large-scale under-utilized energy saving potential, which, in terms of its ability to solve the problem of ensuring the country's economic growth, is comparable to the increase in the production of all primary energy resources without special costs. The potential for profit from long-term investments in improving the energy efficiency of the Russian energy sector is estimated by Western experts at 300 billions of dollars (meaning a long period). This includes the modernization of distribution and electrical networks, the rational redistribution of energy flows, the program for increasing the capacity of nuclear power plants of nuclear power plants, etc. Systematic work in the field of energy conservation and energy efficiency in various sectors and sectors of the Russian economy began after the adoption of the Federal Law of the Russian Federation on 23.11.2009 No. 261-ФЗ “On Energy Saving and Energy Efficiency Improvement and Amendments to Certain Legislative Acts of the Russian Federation”. In 2010, the Ministry of Energy of Russia together with CJSC APBE, LLC CENEF and FGU REA developed the State Program of the Russian Federation (GEPE-2020). The program is intended to be a tool for solving a large-scale task of reducing the energy intensity of GDP by 2020% by 40. That, in turn, leads to a decrease in production costs, an increase in the competitive advantages of a product and an increase in GDP.

Based on the foregoing, it can be assumed that the introduction of limits is to some extent a continuation and part of programs to improve energy efficiency, with a temporary measure associated with the predicted shortage of generating capacity in the future (due to the intensive growth of electricity consumption). Being a direct indicator of the growth of people's well-being and the development of production, which, in spite of alarmist articles about total devastation, is still developing !!! And the goal of introducing this restriction by the leadership of the country, as it seems, is not to infringe upon the rights of citizens, and certainly not the government’s struggle with its people, but to call people for more careful and economical use of electricity and to give the population some kind of impulse, a course for their participation in updating and modernizing . Those. There is a clear vision of the future development prospects of the country by the government, a full understanding of the existing tasks and the ways of their implementation.

Remember, such slogans were in the USSR: "We will teach your mother to consume economically" or "Saving kilowatts, you give grenades to the front." Is this not the desire to build a socially responsible state, where each person as an integral part of this state, to the best of his abilities and position, would contribute to the common cause! And against the background of quite frequent statements by many members of the forum about the urgent need to raise production (which, they say, no, and which, judging from the data above, still exists), there were so many indignations about the principle of a fair decision of the country's leadership as soon as the matter touched their own personal needs. And where is the question asked, did the early revolutionary calls for industrialization disappear?

By the way, about drawing parallels with similar calls to leave the WTO and close access to foreign goods in order to support their own production. Few people imagine that this will immediately cause a rise in prices. Will the personal budgets of these gentlemen sustain such loads?

Simple and accessible actions for each person to save energy in the amount of lead to a significant effect in the form of released electricity and significantly reduce the possibility of accidents or restrictions. For example, fully filled with water electric kettles in the millionth city, included every morning as if on command, or filled in the morning with the right amount of water for a cup of tea — for example, by a quarter — can provide triple savings! Or simply replacing incandescent bulbs with modern energy-saving bulbs can, on average, reduce the energy consumption in an apartment by 2. Costs pay off in less than a year. Etc.

So what, the citizens "psherapalschiki", well, where did the electricity go yet? Production? Maybe someone has more options? Or, again, Putin stole everything?)))

Note by the author. In accordance with the main principle of the socialist state about free education and treatment, take this article as a kind of gratuitous, absolutely harmless, pharmaceutical pill, which is recommended for people prone to untruth and various conspiracy problems. Sober-minded medicine does not have any effect - well, except perhaps prophylactic. After taking the pill, it is slowly absorbed by brain structures, up to a gradual activation of the normal thinking process. Do not be alarmed if you feel a certain ailment. There may be some short-term side effects in the form of abnormal actions, such as outbursts of rage, the use of profanity and pronouncing insults. A convulsive search for an antidote may also begin. It is likely that the reaction, expressed in the desire to gnaw through the bars of the cell. In any case, you should be warned in advance that doctors are not offended. This time. And second: there is no effective antidote against the TRUTH. I hope you'll get better soon. Good morning!
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  1. Old Cynic
    Old Cynic 22 January 2014 08: 37
    +23
    At the end of 2011, 1,05 trillion kWh of electricity was produced in Russia, thereby practically achieving the level of electricity production in the RSFSR in 1986.


    The result of the Chubais reform? Russia in territory is equal to the RSFSR. Power plants were not blown up, they were not buried, they were not converted to sanatoriums and recreation centers ... They both threshed and threshed.
    Where does such a drop in production come from? Smart moves of the Red?
    1. Pharao7766
      Pharao7766 22 January 2014 08: 48
      +38
      Given the fact that the UES of Russia after the rat reforms is a huge collection of private offices reselling energy to the population and production, the idea of ​​"saving" energy by raising tariffs, even if they are over-limit, is just another way of knocking money out of the people and certainly will not benefit production ... And there is no need to say here that this will force production to modernize and energy efficiency.
      And the second - the article says, if you have a lot of electrical appliances - then you're rich. What kind of nonsense?
      Now in every house of this good lot! Plus, most modern high-rise buildings are immediately built for the use of electric stoves. In the countryside - connecting the house to gas, it really needs to be a millionaire.
      So in my opinion - saving energy is certainly wonderful, but as always it is done for profit not by the state but by a gang of interested hucksters.
      1. Mart
        Mart 22 January 2014 08: 54
        +23
        Quote: Pharao7766
        In the countryside - connecting the house to gas is really necessary to be a millionaire.


        That's for sure. In my locality, this pleasure comes out to citizens in 200 thousands of rubles, or even more expensive.
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 22 January 2014 09: 07
          +5
          Quote: Mart
          . In my area, this pleasure creeps out to citizens at 200 thousand rubles, or even more.

          Oleg, what company? Well, Gazprom or someone else
          Hey.
          1. Mart
            Mart 22 January 2014 09: 21
            +5
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            Oleg, what company? Well, Gazprom or someone else
            Hey.

            Hello Sasha! Here is the link: http://www.mrg.ru/node/243. This price, however, you will not find there. Prices are local ...
            And according to the link, I like this: "According to the Decree of the Government of the Tyumen Region No. 372-p dated December 29.12.2008, 1, the retail price for gas from January 2009, 1939 has been set at 1000 rubles per 1 cubic meters. (1,94 cubic meter - XNUMX , RUB XNUMX). The gas price will rise on a quarterly basis ... "
            1. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 22 January 2014 09: 52
              +1
              Quote: Mart
              Prices are local.

              Well, as I understand it, this gas is used for heating. Most likely you have an intermediary, we did not charge Gazprom for connection.
              1. Mart
                Mart 22 January 2014 10: 12
                +17
                Quote: Alexander Romanov
                Well, as I understand it, this gas is used for heating.


                Oh sure. I also had an acquaintance "middle manager" from the gas office. Bragged about how he flies on business trips ... to Thailand. He even gave me a couple of souvenirs. All around us there are calls for savings - and all around us "effective managers".
                1. Alexander Romanov
                  Alexander Romanov 22 January 2014 12: 27
                  +4
                  Quote: Mart
                  ... All around us there are calls for savings - and all around us "effective managers".

                  Naturally, appeals, other than saving on people the salaries of deputies. Those who do not look at all the poor.
                  1. skeptic
                    skeptic 22 January 2014 15: 18
                    +5
                    Quote: Alexander Romanov
                    Naturally, appeals, other than saving on people the salaries of deputies. Those who do not look at all the poor.


                    On the other hand, this law does indeed hit those who have a large number of electrical appliances and use them intensively, that is, it directly concerns rich people.

                    Well now, dear Russians, you finally found out that in Russia there are a dime a dozen rich. It turns out people living in houses without gas, well, all millionaires. You need to save a bit: do not turn on heating devices when the batters are in apartments, do not heat water with water heaters (you can swim in the ice hole), and a raw food diet is said to be useful, not to mention other electrical entertainments. And if you freak out with fat, then pay in triple size, so that the Chubaysyatins children can more often take a break from the works of the righteous abroad (saving Russian electricity)
                    Before such an article, the Kazakh connoisseur thought of it, apparently sitting in a personal yurt, with a splinter, on the phone (to save electricity) ???
            2. The comment was deleted.
            3. atalef
              atalef 22 January 2014 13: 37
              +3
              Quote: Mart
              Hello Sasha! Here is the link: http://www.mrg.ru/node/243. This price, however, you will not find there. Prices are local ...

              Hi Oleg, we have a lot easier in this regard. The price for connecting gas and electricity is the same for each type (i.e. for electricity or gas) regardless of where you live. Gas connection - about 250 bucks, electricity (it's just closer, I know for sure) 1 phase-40 Ampere (input automatic) - 400 bucks, 3 phases - 25A per phase - 600 bucks, 3ph-40A per phase - 1200 bucks. The price is the same for everyone and it doesn’t matter if you live in a multi-storey building, whether you have a store or a business, or that an electric company needs to drive 20 km of air duct and build a KTP. The price is not just the same, but both the electric company and the gas company do not have the right to refuse to connect you, on the grounds that it is not beneficial for them. The only restriction (if you can call it that) business premises (houses) should be built legally. Those. nor so that someone took a piece of land, built a house and came to demand connect me to electricity.
              The same goes for telephone and cable companies (Internet and TV)
              The condition for issuing licenses for the work of these companies prescribed by the state is the uniformity of the connection price (controlled by the state) and the prohibition of the company in refusing to the client.
              Agree - work - disagree goodbye.
              Therefore, even the most distant gas station (somewhere in the desert) with a load of 3x25A will receive a connection for the same 600 bucks.
              I have a mother-in-law in Kiev, so we sent her money to connect the dacha to the gas (provided that the central gas pipeline was 3 meters from the house, the gasmen asked for 4 bucks - they were completely fucked up - some absolutely prohibitive prices-- it’s not even possible to imagine with us.
              1. Mart
                Mart 22 January 2014 14: 19
                +2
                Quote: atalef
                Hi Oleg, we are much easier in this respect. The price for connecting gas and electricity is the same for each type (ie for electricity or gas) regardless of where you live. Gas connection - about 250 bucks


                Hello Alexander! You live there in paradise.
                1. atalef
                  atalef 22 January 2014 14: 24
                  +3
                  Quote: Mart
                  Hello Alexander! You live in paradise there

                  Well, this is not entirely true (about paradise), and the connection to communications is generally quite rare for many people, I would say one-time (unless of course you build 10 times), but nevertheless it is the state’s obligation to regulate the prices for connecting to the infrastructure .to. infrastructure is a set of basic needs of any person (in the modern world) and robbing a person only due to that. that would simply bring electricity or gas to it --- not right - or rather, criminally.
                  1. Alexander Romanov
                    Alexander Romanov 22 January 2014 14: 37
                    +2
                    Quote: atalef
                    but nevertheless, it is the state’s obligation to regulate the prices for connecting to the infrastructure

                    Ha, you sho Sanya live in Israel laughing
                2. atalef
                  atalef 22 January 2014 14: 24
                  +1
                  Quote: Mart
                  Hello Alexander! You live in paradise there

                  Well, this is not entirely true (about paradise), and the connection to communications is generally quite rare for many people, I would say one-time (unless of course you build 10 times), but nevertheless it is the state’s obligation to regulate the prices for connecting to the infrastructure .to. infrastructure is a set of basic needs of any person (in the modern world) and robbing a person only due to that. that would simply bring electricity or gas to it --- not right - or rather, criminally.
                3. Ivan.
                  Ivan. 22 January 2014 15: 36
                  0
                  Quote: Mart
                  Hello Alexander! You live there in paradise.

                  Oleg, every paradise has its own Arabs. request
              2. Ivan.
                Ivan. 22 January 2014 15: 30
                +3
                Quote: atalef
                Hi Oleg, we have a lot easier in this regard. The price for connecting gas and electricity is the same for each type (i.e. for electricity or gas) regardless of where you live.

                No need to compare the incomparable. Where do you live? In the SRI - the Socialist Republic of Israel, and we in the KSRF - the Capitalist States of the Russian Federation. These names in fact, sri and kasherf accidentally turned out but significant! smile
                ps for those who doubt that we have the states let him remember how many presidents and governments we have and compare with the states of the states, there is also a general not bad constitution and also adopt laws in their states.
        2. Tersky
          Tersky 22 January 2014 09: 17
          +9
          Quote: Mart
          In my area, this pleasure creeps out to citizens in 200 thousand rubles, or even more.

          Oleg, hi ! In general, this business has been brought to an absurdity, the monopolist for the design with the subsequent construction of gas outlet networks and the installation of equipment is Ryegaz, which has grabbed so many orders that it simply doesn’t succeed in fulfilling them, according to the latest 2013 data, they closed it without fulfilling about a thousand orders taken and paid, t .e. about a thousand families were left without heat and associated gasification benefits.
          1. Mart
            Mart 22 January 2014 09: 24
            +5
            Quote: Tersky
            Oleg, hi! We have brought this business to the point of absurdity, a monopolist for the design, followed by the construction of gas drainage networks and equipment for the regional gas industry, which picked up so many orders that they are not doing enough, according to the latest 2013 data, they have not completed about a thousand orders taken and paid. . about a thousand families were left without heat and associated gasification benefits.


            hi I fully understand. I now moved to another village, now I also have gas. So even on request, it is impossible to call a specialist. Does not call back and does not come, that's all. Neither repeated calls, nor repeated calls to the 04 service do not help. As if there is no one ...
            1. Tersky
              Tersky 22 January 2014 09: 48
              +4
              Quote: Mart
              As if there is nobody ...

              Promise them a prepayment, they will appear instantly, laughing !
      2. DEMENTIY
        DEMENTIY 22 January 2014 09: 30
        +3
        Quote: Pharao7766
        So in my opinion - saving energy is certainly wonderful, but as always it is done for profit not by the state but by a gang of interested hucksters.


        I will tell you from the experience of Ukraine. We have had this cartoon for several years now and you know, you don't need to make a tragedy out of it. The house itself is all electric, i.e. everything: heating, water, stove. From the start, yes! In the first winter I paid not little - the heating was strained. During the spring, summer, I insulated the facade, switched to "housekeepers", issued a new tariff, because electric heating in the house (for those who do not have a stove and much lower). And since last year I have been paying less than I paid before this system. Despite the fact that I used everything and I use it. I figured it out. In principle, I cannot exceed my tariff with my consumption. But of course, everyone has their own nuances (house, apartment, etc., etc.). Like this.
        1. atalef
          atalef 22 January 2014 13: 46
          +1
          Quote: DEMENTIY
          For spring, summer insulated the facade,

          It’s possible not to work blindly. order a check with a heat chamber - it will show the places of the greatest heat leakage and places.
          LED lamps are the same huge savings, and their resource is not comparatively higher
          1. family tree
            family tree 22 January 2014 13: 49
            +3
            Quote: atalef
            It’s possible not to work blindly. order a check with a heat chamber - it will show the places of the greatest heat leakage and places

            No matter how relevant. The first frost under the thirties, draws these places with frost stains, and, for free laughing
            LED lamps are the same huge savings, and their resource is not comparatively higher
            Only here the voltage drops and surges, in our spaces and with our weather, even the Chinese stabilizers can not cope.
            1. atalef
              atalef 22 January 2014 22: 17
              0
              Quote: perepilka
              No matter how relevant. The first frost under the thirties, draws these places with frost stains, and, for free

              Also an option . but a problem. it turns out for that. to know where to warm yourself - you have to wait for the winter. and warm only by next year?

              Quote: perepilka
              Only here the voltage drops and surges, in our spaces and with our weather, even the Chinese stabilizers can not cope.

              We would have been suspended for such an Electric Company for a reason. and for the eggs.
              Outages are extremely rare. and there are practically no differences. and if it happens (well, for example, if a zero burned out on a 3-phase network on a three-phase network. Therefore, a jump occurs in 2 phases - full compensation is paid for damaged electronic goods.
        2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Andrey57
        Andrey57 22 January 2014 09: 31
        +9
        That's right! There were no other planned reasons than to drain the dough from the poorest sections of the population.
        The author is pharising on the topic of saving - this is a simple noodle on your ears!
        If you live in a one-room apartment alone, with an electric stove, a refrigerator, an electric kettle, an iron and a computer, with all the energy-saving lamps, it’s not realistic to fit into these energy soldering!
        And this means that just another way was found to bypass the restrictions on tearing up electricity prices - after all, nobody limits tariffs on over-limit costs!
      4. A.YARY
        A.YARY 22 January 2014 10: 49
        +7
        The whole article in one phrase quote
        but only about limiting the limit at the lowest price,
        Sirech pay a mustache more !!!!
        Question from what the hell?
        Water in the country belongs to the people!
        Power plants were built and paid by the same people!
        All the equipment was also bought by the same people!
        What the hell did electricity prices rise at all ??? !!!
        Thieves in power!


        PySy
        We and our children were excommunicated from the national economy by means of "PRIVATIZATION"!
        Now they want to make it so that we forget that EVERYTHING once belonged to the people!
        To wind up and torture by attempts to survive and raise funds so that everything they will appoint to pay!
        So that we forget and think that this belongs to us and not to them !!!
        1. Boris55
          Boris55 22 January 2014 11: 01
          +7
          Quote: A.YARY
          ... Question from what the hell? ...

          From that ... Did he get such a piece of paper? Was he standing in line? Did you pay money for it? We have everything written down - signed for receipt, get a check for two Volga, and free ...


          Thank you dear party, that you’ve robbed my house ...
          1. RUSS
            RUSS 22 January 2014 12: 16
            +1
            Quote: Boris55
            Quote: A.YARY
            ... Question from what the hell? ...

            From that ... Did he get such a piece of paper? Was he standing in line? Did you pay money for it? We have everything written down - signed for receipt, get a check for two Volga, and free ...


            Thank you dear party, that you’ve robbed my house ...



            A Red promised everyone a / m Volga.
            1. Ivan.
              Ivan. 22 January 2014 15: 47
              +1
              Quote: RUSS
              to each of the Volga

              An old joke in the subject.
              The Armenian is asked:
              - And could you buy Zaporozhets?
              - Of course!
              - And Lada?
              - Could...
              - Yeah ... Could the Volga be?
              “Mmmmmm, if only why would you need her with all her marinas!”
              1. The comment was deleted.
              2. atalef
                atalef 22 January 2014 15: 55
                0
                Quote: Ivan.
                Could you buy a Zaporozhets?

                In general, in the original, not the Cossack, but the Oka
                1. Ivan.
                  Ivan. 22 January 2014 16: 54
                  +2
                  Quote: atalef
                  Quote: Ivan.
                  Could you buy a Zaporozhets?

                  In general, in the original, not the Cossack, but the Oka

                  YES? And how old is the original? In Soviet times, I don’t remember what the Oka would be!
                  1. family tree
                    family tree 22 January 2014 17: 03
                    +2
                    Quote: Ivan.
                    In Soviet times, I don’t remember what the Oka would be!

                    The eye was, but in the original, the same "Zaporozhets"
                    1. Ivan.
                      Ivan. 22 January 2014 17: 33
                      0
                      Quote: perepilka
                      The eye was, but in the original, the same "Zaporozhets"

                      produced at VAZ, KamAZ and SeAZ in 1988-2008.

                      In 2013, AvtoVAZ announced its intention to revive the Oka [1].

                      Now it’s clear why I didn’t hear it, only it’s not clear that they are going to revive.
                      1. family tree
                        family tree 22 January 2014 17: 57
                        +4
                        Quote: Ivan.
                        Now it’s clear why I didn’t hear it, only it’s not clear that they are going to revive.

                        Yes there is a drawing what
                        It remains only to buy a license from the Japanese.laughing
                  2. atalef
                    atalef 22 January 2014 22: 18
                    0
                    Quote: Ivan.
                    Quote: atalef
                    Quote: Ivan.
                    Could you buy a Zaporozhets?

                    In general, in the original, not the Cossack, but the Oka

                    YES? And how old is the original? In Soviet times, I don’t remember what the Oka would be!

                    no river Zaporozhets. and in the sense of an anegdot - the names of rivers (and not brands of cars - puns)
                    1. Ivan.
                      Ivan. 22 January 2014 23: 10
                      0
                      Quote: atalef
                      no river Zaporozhets. and in the sense of an anegdot - the names of rivers (and not brands of cars - puns)

                      Yes, I know! Long recalled how it was in the original - this option was! A joke was told with an accent asking about cars and responding with a strong accent and not very good knowledge of Russian. But this is only the ending in my opinion, I don’t remember the beginning. And there could be many options and over time they changed.
      5. CTEPX
        CTEPX 22 January 2014 12: 16
        +4
        Quote: Pharao7766
        the idea of ​​"saving" energy by raising tariffs, even if they are over-limit, is just another way of knocking money out of the people

        More truly, even like this: the increase in tariffs on the territory of the Russian Federation is already prohibitive and the price of electric energy exceeds its selling price abroad
        Quote: from article
        17,9 billion kWh of electricity worth $ 789 million were exported from Russia
        it is about 5 cents per kWh. Which of us pays less or at least the same?
        And blah blah about energy conservation, this is a cover for the operation to increase the size of tribute from the population and producers in the Russian Federation. Recoverable excess profit (tribute) is derived from Russia (this is when we are told about the flight of capital).
        Another lie used in the article is the attraction of the country's leadership to this scheme. Yes, specifically Medvedev, Dvorkovich and Chubais are still in high positions in the country and cover up this scheme. But the price under the guise of "energy saving" is raised by regional deputies at the suggestion of "generating" companies. The budget from such "innovations" only loses)).
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. atalef
          atalef 22 January 2014 13: 50
          +1
          Quote: ctepx
          it is about 5 cents per kWh. Which of us pays less or at least the same?

          This is due to the fact that electricity with a voltage of 500kV or 220kV is sold abroad, the electricity of such voltage costs several times less. You get home 220v (or 380 if the power shield) - you also pay for the entire line of undervoltage, as well as lines, service staff, equipment. Depreciation and so on - on the way to your house.
          1. Ivan.
            Ivan. 22 January 2014 16: 02
            0
            Quote: atalef
            This is due to the fact that electricity with a voltage of 500kV or 220kV is sold abroad, the electricity of such voltage costs several times less. You get home 220v (or 380 if the power shield) - you also pay for the entire line of undervoltage, as well as lines, service staff, equipment. Depreciation and so on - on the way to your house.

            Regardless of this salary (the pay for work was certainly not paid), it will never significantly exceed the minimum for a normal life, even if labor productivity rises another ten times, the system of redistributing those in power will not allow people to become economically free and therefore not manageable. Therefore, tariffs, prices exist to bring the ratio of expenses to income to 1ce.
          2. CTEPX
            CTEPX 22 January 2014 18: 40
            +4
            Quote: atalef
            you also pay for the entire line of undervoltage, as well as lines, service staff, equipment. depreciation, etc. - on the way to your home.

            The cost of energy of the Krasnoyarsk hydroelectric station is 8 kop per kWh. One and a half kilometers from this hydroelectric power station, consumers pay from 2r40kop to 4r40kop per kWh)).
            It is not the economy that works here, but the tribute payment mechanism prescribed in international treaties, which, according to our Constitution, are higher than our domestic laws.
            Apparently, relatively soon we will be able to change this)). And, kirdyk of the "successful" Western economy))
            1. atalef
              atalef 22 January 2014 22: 20
              0
              Quote: ctepx
              The cost of energy of the Krasnoyarsk hydroelectric station is 8 kop per kWh. One and a half kilometers from this hydroelectric power station, consumers pay from 2r40kop to 4r40kop per kWh)).

              You do not receive electricity from a power plant. and from a state network (or not a state one already) your hydroelectric power station produces 110 or 150 or 220 kV voltage. I don’t think your house is powered by him.
              1. CTEPX
                CTEPX 23 January 2014 04: 57
                0
                Quote: atalef
                You do not receive electricity from a power plant. and from the state network

                “The electricity tariff for VgAZ reached 6 cents (1,94 rubles) per kilowatt-hour before the suspension of capacities. This indicator is higher than in the USA and countries of Northern Europe. Therefore, with today's tariffs, as well as current prices for LME, VgAZ cannot be effective ” http://expert.ru/south/2013/50/kilovatt-protiv-alyuminiya/
                Such is parsley)).
      6. I do not care
        I do not care 22 January 2014 20: 20
        +2
        I can tell you where to find the lost multi-megawatts-in aluminum wires, substations 50 years of release, etc. Delivery infrastructure, service,
        new owners need new technologies for transferring electric energy with minimal losses. Who cares, rummage in nete how much electricity is lost when transferring from point A to point B at a given distance laughing , and the author about this is just no gugo
        1. Ivan.
          Ivan. 22 January 2014 21: 59
          +1
          Quote: me by
          I can tell you where to find the lost multi-megawatts

          And that’s not all. Well, here the question is actually very long. About ten years ago they talked about a case in my opinion in Siberia - for the population, kW are many times cheaper than production, although many times more expensive than the cost, and so for some small settlement they made the price as for the company people were indignant but spit on them and it came to that that the hunters came out and shot the main transmission line, only this worked. The second point is that in our country power lines have a large length, thousands of km, the frequency of multi-volt power lines is 5 Ohm and in some areas close to 270 000 km (the speed of EM waves is not in vacuum): 50 Hz = 5500 km these lines emit energy, that is, energy losses occur at close values smaller losses occur, that is, these areas behave like antennas and scientists don’t want to listen, from the memory losses in these areas are tens of percent. The third point is that the voltage in the network is often overstated to increase consumption, although sometimes this is partially justified, there will not be too much drawdown at the end of the line, because the lines were calculated in Soviet times and people did not consume a lot and they rarely want to invest in outdated and overloaded lines voluntarily. Total losses I think about half the energy produced.
          By the way
          In Moldova, as I saw, I was stunned, this property was sold to my Italians - "phenose" - it seems like a coaxial cable (central core, insulation, screen and insulation again) is suitable for consumers' houses so that people do not have the opportunity to steal laughing and accordingly, the voltage difference at the beginning of the line and at the end is huge, by the way, all the meters are street, in the cities did not look.
    2. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 22 January 2014 08: 49
      +7
      Quote: Old Cynic
      Where does such a drop in production come from?

      From the stops of factories, factories and the general impoverishment of the population.
      1. mirag2
        mirag2 22 January 2014 09: 01
        +7
        Primakov’s excellent article was the last before the Gaidar forum, where he directly spoke about the government’s sabotage of the industrial upsurge.
        And the most important victory was the rejection of total privatization in favor of limited.
      2. Tersky
        Tersky 22 January 2014 09: 08
        +10
        My opinion as an energy retailer is that social norms are essentially the transformation of energy retail companies into branches of the FMS, because for the full accounting and distribution of social norms, accurate information about the number of people living in the house (apartment) and their age is needed. The associated costs and conflicts with consumers can minimize even the insignificant expected benefits from the introduction of social norms that are supposed to be received. This is one side of the coin, the second also appears in an unfavorable light. The population of Russia consumes from 10% to 30% (depending on the region) of the total electricity generated, the rest of the consumption relates to consumers in the industrial and non-industrial sectors, agricultural consumers, budget institutions at all levels. And if we proceed from the goal of reducing cross-subsidization of the population at the expense of other consumers, we should not forget that a maximum of only 30% of electricity consumption can be supplied at economically reasonable rates, which means that cross-subsidization can decrease no more than this value. But in reality, the figure will be lower, since restrictions are introduced on tariff growth above the social norm of not more than 30%. And one more nuance - taking into account the fact that consumption standards will be approved in each individual region, I am afraid the social norm will become a political tool in the struggle for the election of governors who will try to promise to increase its size. Sasha hi !
        1. 787nkx
          787nkx 22 January 2014 11: 18
          0
          will try to promise to increase its size

          Rather, reduce, at the request of energy companies.
        2. military
          military 22 January 2014 13: 54
          +2
          Quote: Tersky
          My opinion as an energy marketer

          well, here came a man who knows the kitchen from the inside ...
          economically sound tariffs - that's great ... that's great ...
          that's just how to explain to the population why the selling wholesale price of 1 kW of electricity (hydroelectric power station, nuclear power plant) from the direct producer (HEC) today is on average at the level of 20-50 kopecks / kW, and to the eared fryer (inhabitant) it is sold into retail at 3 rubles. and higher ... and constantly "explain" that this is far from 100% payment and he actually lives "on credit" ...
          so to explain, so that he understands and imbued with cowards ...
        3. atalef
          atalef 22 January 2014 13: 54
          -1
          Quote: Tersky
          My opinion as an energy salesman is that social norms are essentially the transformation of energy retail companies into branches of the Federal Migration Service, because for the full accounting and distribution of social norms they need accurate information about the number of people living in the house (apartment) and their age

          in general, provided that the difference in price between the electric energy received at the social rate and the normal price is so small that it was not worth even bothering about it and scaring people. As far as I know . the difference in price between the usual sq / h and * subsidized * is less than 10% - believe me the difference is so miserable that to bring this confusion to the people - for these pennies it made no sense.
        4. The comment was deleted.
      3. Tersky
        Tersky 22 January 2014 10: 01
        +1
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        From the stops of factories, factories and the general impoverishment of the population.

        Sasha hi ! Correct - not stops, collapse and pulling along holes. As for the population, something like this:
        1. RUSS
          RUSS 22 January 2014 12: 20
          +1
          By the way about incandescent lamps, they are now gradually being phased out, but no matter how! Now the incandescent lamp is called-HEAT Emitter and all please sell the lamp 100V, and according to the documents-the radiator.
          1. family tree
            family tree 22 January 2014 12: 44
            +3
            Quote: RUSS
            HEAT Emitter and everything, please, sell a 100V lamp, and according to the documents, a radiator.

            100W, actually. This voltage, we sell 99W, and who will check? laughing
          2. atalef
            atalef 22 January 2014 13: 57
            +1
            Quote: RUSS
            By the way about incandescent lamps, they are now gradually being phased out, but no matter how! Now the incandescent lamp is called-HEAT Emitter and all please sell the lamp 100V, and according to the documents-the radiator.

            In general, people themselves should understand that a 100v lamp is simply not economically viable, that’s all. And you can call them anything you like to circumvent these laws. We almost never find ordinary lamps (those that were still burning) and people change it themselves --- simply because it is profitable.
            1. family tree
              family tree 22 January 2014 15: 48
              +3
              Quote: atalef
              In general, people themselves must understand that 100V lamps are simply not economically viable

              In general, lighting is a minuscule compared to other consumers, especially if there is no gas. A washing machine, an electric stove and a water heater consume an order of magnitude more.
              1. The comment was deleted.
            2. Mature naturalist
              Mature naturalist 23 January 2014 01: 02
              +2
              Quote: atalef
              We almost never meet ordinary lamps

              You know, dear, what a nice spectrum the incandescent lamp has.
              You get a lot of sun in the sunny Mediterranean, so you pay attention to saving agorot (agorot is their penny), and we want heat, not carrion from energy-saving lamps.
              1. military
                military 23 January 2014 09: 50
                -1
                Quote: Mature Naturalist
                You know, dear, what a nice spectrum the incandescent lamp has.

                the question is not in the spectrum ... the spectrum today is easily corrected by the formulation of phosphors of specific types of LEDs ... the question is that in the general design of the LED lamp, only LEDs correspond with a certain stretch to the resource declared by the manufacturer (approx. 50000 hours) with a certain stretch components of the built-in power driver ... this is where all kinds of research begins ... such as optimizing energy efficiency by switching from high-power LED clusters to discrete LEDs with a low operating current with etc. and so on ... well, and a number of other "amenities" that it is customary in the profile environment to "talk by default" ... the tale of the white bull has so far been successfully sucked into the unstable psyche of the average man ...
          3. The comment was deleted.
      4. military
        military 22 January 2014 13: 37
        +3
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Quote: Old Cynic
        Where does such a drop in production come from?

        From the stops of factories, factories and the general impoverishment of the population.

        hi it's strange to hear this from you, Alexander! ... it somehow dissonant with your statement somewhere in the depths of neighboring branches about 300 new enterprises ... or is it in the context of the fact that the general impoverishment of the population is a natural legacy of the collapsed more than 20 years ago "regime"? ... and what still prevails in the country - shutdowns of factories and factories or the emergence of "new factories"? ... and what about production - "growing" or still falling ?. ..wink
    3. Civil
      Civil 22 January 2014 08: 52
      +11
      1. The owners of the generating companies that own the power plants do not care about the lack of electricity (capacity), they are only interested in the price, less profit is more than the price, this is capitalism.
      2. All power industry went to the owners for a penny, they will use it inside out. Bidding on investment programs is a profanity, everything is distributed to their firms.
      3. Electricity prices are restrained for political reasons, namely GDP, and would have been released long ago.
      4. After the introduction of social norms, prices will be released, and the Federal Tariff Service will no longer be able to limit the greed of this monopolized market by orders.

      Now the main thing is, for no one needs rich people, their percentage of the bulk, respectively, will be the norm strictly for the poor.
      2 TVs, 2 computers, a refrigerator, an electric kettle are all out of the norm, because most do not have money for expensive household appliances with low consumption.
      1. military
        military 22 January 2014 14: 01
        +1
        Quote: Civil
        1. The owners of the generating companies that own the power plants do not care about the lack of electricity (capacity), they are only interested in the price, less profit is more than the price, this is capitalism.

        between the GEC and the retail consumer are their Excellencies - "networkers" and "suppliers" (intermediaries and hucksters) ... directly from the GEC wholesale selling tariffs for electricity are completely different ... GEC will add a patch - "energy supply" will throw a ruble .. ...wink
      2. mirag2
        mirag2 22 January 2014 15: 00
        0
        I agree with everything, except for the number of household appliances, there is a lot for everyone.
        And everyone consumes electricity a lot, the point is that here again the opposition of the interests of groups in the government — some wanted to slow down tariffs — and thereby inflation, while others interfere — they came to some kind of compromise, that's all.
        And social norms are miserable-pah.
        Nothing at all.
    4. SolomonSS
      SolomonSS 22 January 2014 09: 14
      +7
      As they say, you don’t need to come to the house with someone else’s samovar, for the author.
      Each for himself decides how the given project will be reflected in a pocket.
      If in Kazakhstan the poor person only
      a pair of light bulbs and a boiler
      , then in Russia both a microwave and a refrigerator, and a washing machine, e-mail. a boiler (in apartments, of course, not at all, but present), a TV, a computer, etc. ... Of course, this is not at all, but now it is a necessary minimum for modern society.
      And if the family has a small child, and the washing machine works every day, then this limit will definitely be jumped over.
      Then the limit of electric energy that will be given must have a reduced cost in order to somehow feel. And then they will leave the tariffs, and over the norm they will say pay 20 rubles. per kW.
      In general, the introduction of any limits and restrictions for the population never turns in a positive direction.
    5. Sosland
      Sosland 22 January 2014 09: 55
      +3
      he treated this dog better than others, if he beat others and did not feed, then he simply did not feed
    6. host
      host 22 January 2014 13: 00
      0
      It's just that the author is clearly visible motivated if he confuses colors and says black on white.
      Social norms for electric energy will lead Russia to a social explosion, but from the beginning to financial problems.
      The bourgeoisie from the energy sector (Chubais feeding up) let them learn from the beginning to work without losses and debts. In general, such managers should be asked more and driven from warm places for the debts of enterprises.
      1. Ivan.
        Ivan. 22 January 2014 16: 10
        0
        Quote: master
        Social norms for electric energy will lead Russia to a social explosion,

        They won't, I have been paying in Gorky in recent years, only here is a low rate, like we have 50 kW per month, I have not seen anywhere and at the same time I have not heard any outrage. Only "fuses" will lead to an explosion if they want it.
  2. artifox
    artifox 22 January 2014 08: 39
    +4
    After reading the indignant comments, one gets the impression that this restriction touched the not very poor layer of society on the site!

    But they don’t have them on the site - the poor stratum, by definition, has no Internet and it doesn’t look at the site :)

    So, maybe, after all, no one stole it? And is its lack connected with the natural growth of production and the economy of Russia as a whole? Yes, that is right! Do not agree?

    No, this is due to the general obsolescence of production capacities, the reform of Chubais, etc.

    Although the growth of production in other areas leads to an increase in consumption - no doubt.

    And at the expense of stealing. No, they don’t steal it - some regions located in the south of mother Russia simply do not pay for it ... That's all ...
  3. calocha
    calocha 22 January 2014 08: 40
    +6
    Or maybe gentlemen, the liberals wanted to put everyone on the "spirals"? It seems like an economy-liberation, but rather a lobby of "spirals". Why was it necessary to destroy such an energy system? !!!! Oil, gas and power plants and the Earth should completely belong to the STATE !! !!
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 22 January 2014 08: 51
      +1
      Quote: calocha
      ? Kind of like saving-release, but rather a "spiral" lobby.

      Lobby??? China lobby in the State Duma-original laughing
      1. military
        military 22 January 2014 14: 16
        +1
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Lobby??? China lobby in the State Duma-original

        and what is especially "original" here? ... there is such an "innovation" - LED lighting ... in any such lamp there is a driver (converter) for powering LEDs (strips, clusters) ... components are entirely imported ... import ERI is subject to customs duty on the territory ... the import of ready-made drivers made abroad (in the same China) is duty-free ... the manufacturer goes there ... so all kinds of lighting equipment with Russian "brands" and Chinese filling lie on store shelves ...
        this is the question of supporting a domestic manufacturer ...
    2. ele1285
      ele1285 22 January 2014 10: 27
      +5
      Quote: calocha
      Or maybe gentlemen the liberals wanted to put everyone on "spirals"? It seems like an economy-liberation, but rather a lobby of "spirals". Why was it necessary to destroy such an energy system?

      That's right, it's just that ANY initiative of the government has not led to anything good yet. The people already understand, with their spinal cord, that they will get another crap with a lot of money.
  4. borisjdin1957
    borisjdin1957 22 January 2014 08: 41
    -4
    from the Don.
    I agree with the author! Only you need to revise the tariffs for some industries. For example, greenhouses.
  5. frame5
    frame5 22 January 2014 08: 42
    +22
    The tone of the article is just wonderful. Passages about a socially responsible state are especially touching, where some are socially responsible, and salaries are raised by others.
  6. mak210
    mak210 22 January 2014 08: 45
    +11
    Or simply replacing incandescent lamps with modern energy-saving lamps on average can reduce energy consumption in an apartment by 2 times. Costs pay off in less than a year.


    Who counted this? Replaced in the kitchen lamps for energy at 110 rubles. After about 2-3 months, they burned out. All. Apparently paid off. I guess the argument: do not take the Chinese r ... about. I agree. But where to get another? One of the lamps burned out with a strange white haze. Could it be mercury vapor? The delay with switching on is very annoying, with time, not very long, their light power decreases noticeably. After that, he set the usual again.

    I did not find more reserves.
    1. Mart
      Mart 22 January 2014 08: 59
      +10
      Quote: mak210
      Who counted it?


      Even reliable branded lamps (they have also been made in China for a long time) pay off in several years, and not in a year, and only with intensive use can you get some microscopic benefit. Undoubtedly, the economies of scale (i.e., if we take the savings in electricity when switching to energy-saving light bulbs across the country) may be even slightly noticeable. Purely Chinese bulbs, manufactured under Chinese "brands", are so good. The Chinese masters only "copy". And for comparison: I recently bought branded light bulbs (made in Russia, by the way, using German technology). Power of 9 watts. RUB 155 / pcs. An ordinary 40-watt light bulb costs 9 rubles in our store. 50 kopecks You can save a penny in the world here in five years, and then if you burn the light for half a day and chandeliers.
      1. Mikhail m
        Mikhail m 22 January 2014 10: 16
        +8
        And who will consider the harm from mercury vapors contained in energy conservation? Reception of these lamps is not organized. Landfills will soon turn into poisonous deserts !!!
      2. ele1285
        ele1285 22 January 2014 10: 33
        +7
        Quote: Mart
        The Chinese masters only "copy". And for comparison: I recently bought branded light bulbs (made in Russia

        I bought half a year ago in the Karusel store, you will not believe "Medvedev's lamp" was made in China, it burned out in two months. greatness.
        1. Mart
          Mart 22 January 2014 10: 54
          +7
          Quote: ele1285
          I bought half a year ago in the Karusel store, you will not believe "Medvedev's lamp" was made in China, it burned out in two months. greatness.


          Vodka "Putinka" and "Medvedev's Light" ...
          1. ele1285
            ele1285 22 January 2014 11: 26
            0
            Quote: Mart
            Medvedev's bulb.

            I am absolutely serious. Tomorrow I will go there, if they will, I will send a scan.
            1. Mart
              Mart 22 January 2014 11: 33
              +1
              Quote: ele1285
              I am absolutely serious. Tomorrow I will go there, if they will, I will send a scan.


              Yes, I do not doubt.
          2. makarov
            makarov 22 January 2014 13: 56
            0
            Yeah!! When fish suffering occurs, it is also called the same name - PUTIN. Looks like ancestors foresaw everything !!! laughing smile
      3. Ivan.
        Ivan. 22 January 2014 11: 02
        0
        Quote: Mart
        And for comparison: I recently bought branded bulbs (made in Russia, by the way, using German technology). Power 9 watts. US $ 155 / piece

        I bought and expensive burn out the same way, about 5 years ago I bought cheap (LUXTECH) 2700 kelvin 15W for 42 rubles. normally work, about 8 years ago FERON 2700 kelvin 25vt for about 70rub the same thing and did not buy expensive, even 35w took for 95rub. Of course, there are also dear ones, but I prefer to take the cheap ones, though one must have eyes, the cheap one is not always good, but also not always bad.
        1. atalef
          atalef 22 January 2014 22: 23
          0
          Quote: Ivan.
          ) 2700 kelvin

          Yellow light does not bother? Maybe better than 4200K - in my opinion it is much more pleasant.
          1. Ivan.
            Ivan. 22 January 2014 23: 22
            0
            Quote: atalef
            Quote: Ivan.
            ) 2700 kelvin

            Yellow light does not bother? Maybe better than 4200K - in my opinion it is much more pleasant.

            No, I'm used to it like a light bulb. Then 4200 later appeared, the first were cold, then warm and only then neutral. 35W is just 4200. I prefer to mix them.
      4. atalef
        atalef 22 January 2014 14: 02
        +1
        Quote: Mart
        Even reliable branded lamps (they have also been made in the PRC for a long time) pay off in a few years,

        Well, it’s very simply considered - the difference in price for lamps, compare with (difference in W x for hours of use) - I’m sure there are lamps that never pay off, but some that are pretty fast - it all depends on the hours of operation.
        Just do not forget - Xena per kilowatts, and the power of the lamps in Watts. You must enter a coefficient of 0.001
      5. The comment was deleted.
    2. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 22 January 2014 09: 05
      +5
      Quote: mak210
      . After that, he set the usual again.

      In our country, too, most of them installed new lamps, and then everyone moved to the old ones in chorus. One conclusion is bullshit !!!
      1. SRC P-15
        SRC P-15 22 January 2014 09: 48
        +6
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        In our country, too, most of them installed new lamps, and then everyone moved to the old ones in chorus. One conclusion is bullshit !!!

        And if I get old lamps for free (I work as an electrician), what's the point of buying energy-saving? Yes and no such savings from them to spend that kind of money. The bulbs are usually turned on in the dark, and the largest energy consumption comes from home appliances, but you can’t save on them, the water will not boil faster if you turn on a lower power electronic. kettle. It is necessary to fight theft, and not introduce rations, and intermediaries all on the cap, then the rules will not be needed.
        1. AK-47
          AK-47 22 January 2014 10: 24
          +1
          Quote: СРЦ П-15
          And if I get old lamps for free (I work as an electrician) ... I need to fight theft, not ...

          Have you tried to start with yourself?
          1. SRC P-15
            SRC P-15 22 January 2014 11: 23
            +5
            Quote: AK-47
            They didn’t try to start with themselves

            You do not understand me, I do not steal them, they are not worth it to steal them, a penny. Once again I want to say that you can’t save on bulbs. I meant the theft of electricity, so do not distort!
            1. AK-47
              AK-47 22 January 2014 11: 32
              +2
              Quote: СРЦ П-15
              You do not understand me, I

              Sorry dear, it was a joke. hi
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. ele1285
            ele1285 22 January 2014 14: 05
            0
            Quote: AK-47
            Have you tried to start with yourself?


            SRTS P-15 does not steal, he takes what he is not paid extra for his work. This should be suggested to officials "to start with themselves."
            1. SRC P-15
              SRC P-15 22 January 2014 14: 33
              +4
              Quote: ele1285
              СРЦ П-15 does not steal, he takes what he is not paid extra for his work

              Well, I think that they don’t cost me light bulbs. To balance my work and salary, I have to endure all the consumables, and maybe more, but this is not an option. smile
            2. The comment was deleted.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Old Cynic
        Old Cynic 22 January 2014 10: 01
        +2
        .Conclusion one is bullshit !!!


        How can you say that !!! Ay-yai-yay ... The nano-president himself sanctified these bulbs! wassat
        1. military
          military 22 January 2014 15: 27
          0
          Quote: Old Cynic
          How can you say that !!! Ay-yai-yay ... The nano-president himself sanctified these bulbs!

          none other than with the filing of the nano-prime minister ... laughing
      4. atalef
        atalef 22 January 2014 14: 05
        +2
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        In our country, too, most of them installed new lamps, and then everyone moved to the old ones in chorus. One conclusion is bullshit !!!

        Sanya hi. The conclusion is not correct - it all depends on the hours of operation, the quality of the lamps and its price and the price of electricity. All this can be calculated even before the purchase.
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 22 January 2014 14: 12
          0
          Quote: atalef
          . The conclusion is not correct -

          Healthy hi Sasha, come on, your Chinese kitay simple costs four, five times cheaper than ours. If we have a Chinese lamp it costs about 4 bucks, and normal = our one goes for all 7 in stores, then how much electricity should cost, which would justify it? You have a market, like a market, we have conspiracies of commerce, I know for myself. Sales are fiction, all lies and you want to save on these lamps ??? Where to throw the burnt mercury lamp into the container and after five years with mercury we will litter everything around. There are no recycling plants. I can’t say for LEDs that they are even more expensive, but they burn and burn.
          1. atalef
            atalef 22 January 2014 14: 31
            0
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            If a Chinese light bulb costs us about 4 bucks, and normally = ours, it rolls under all 7

            It's expensive, we have 3 lamps (18-24 W) - you can buy it for 8 bucks, at a price of electricity 14 cents per kilowatt pays for ..... (at 12 hours of work per day (this is of course a lot, but from here you can take it in proportions since the relationship is linear) ---- 30-40 days
          2. atalef
            atalef 22 January 2014 14: 31
            0
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            If a Chinese light bulb costs us about 4 bucks, and normally = ours, it rolls under all 7

            It's expensive, we have 3 lamps (18-24 W) - you can buy it for 8 bucks, at a price of electricity 14 cents per kilowatt pays for ..... (at 12 hours of work per day (this is of course a lot, but from here you can take it in proportions since the relationship is linear) ---- 30-40 days
      5. Ascetic
        Ascetic 22 January 2014 19: 35
        0
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        In our country, too, most of them installed new lamps, and then everyone moved to the old ones in chorus. One conclusion is bullshit !!!

        I just put it on the porch in the country. They said that they should not be touched with bare hands, otherwise it will burn out quickly, only with cloth gloves. Allegedly from sweat-fatty traces, they deteriorate. But aren't they halogen?
        1. Ivan.
          Ivan. 22 January 2014 19: 49
          +2
          Quote: Ascetic
          I just put it on the porch in the country. They said that they should not be touched with bare hands, otherwise it will burn out quickly, only with cloth gloves. Allegedly from sweat-fatty traces, they deteriorate. But aren't they halogen?

          Stanislav do not listen to this nonsense, I never paid attention to it and sometimes even warm my hands about them. Saving nuts are not effective for short starts, it is better to put incandescent or LED in the toilet and bath. Only if they work for hours does it make sense.
          The whole point is that the hands leave a fat heat insulator, and for incandescent, the more powerful and effective they are, the higher the temperature of the bulb and the filament is closer to the melting temperature.
          1. Ascetic
            Ascetic 22 January 2014 20: 19
            0
            Quote: Ivan.
            Only if they work for hours does it make sense.

            So I’ve cleared it. Why did I put it on the porch as emergency lighting in the dark. In general, they began to consider something like that with a neighbor. It is cheaper to live in a country house or in an apartment. So it turns out on heating in Mos.oblasti. AGV if there is no metering device you pay roughly 35 rubles. per sq.m. and in the apartment with central heating we got 60 rubles. per sq.m. plus 58 rubles from a prescribed snout behind a gas stove. And so it turns out that I pay 2500 for heating (for us only for the heating period in other cities, housing and communal services are divided by 12 months and you pay only a smaller amount every two times a month) and maintenance and repair of the premises about the same. Everything else is electrics, water, and other mere pennies compared to these two payments (somewhere around 1-1.5 it runs all over). So headquarters - all these standards are in excess of crumbs in comparison with the appetites of local communal services. Especially in the Orel region. the limit is, for example, 190 kW / h and somewhere around 70. It is called whoever wants it from the bulldozer and sets it to the extent of greed and egghead. Then, since you introduced the whip, then give it a carrot, the same Mosenergosbyt if I did not choose a monthly limit, for example, I live in a country house or on vacation. After all, everything is taken into account on their website and the data is transferred there automatically. So, of course, nobody has enough brains for such marketing. Therefore, people will be indignant, although in reality this is not the main blow to the wallet. Indeed, such a system has long been such a limiting tariff for the same phone
            1. Ivan.
              Ivan. 22 January 2014 21: 01
              0
              Quote: Ascetic
              And so it turns out that I pay for heating 2500 (in our city only, in other cities, housing and communal services are divided by 12 months and you pay only a smaller amount every two times a month) and the maintenance and repair of the room is about the same.

              I have never had my own home, so I can’t judge - the question is relevant and is it fair what the aunt says?
        2. atalef
          atalef 22 January 2014 22: 26
          0
          Quote: Ascetic
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          In our country, too, most of them installed new lamps, and then everyone moved to the old ones in chorus. One conclusion is bullshit !!!

          I just put it on the porch in the country. They said that they should not be touched with bare hands, otherwise it will burn out quickly, only with cloth gloves. Allegedly from sweat-fatty traces, they deteriorate. But aren't they halogen?

          They scattered you, you can touch them with your hands, just like gologenok - modern ones no longer respond to fat from the fingers.
  7. Asgard
    Asgard 22 January 2014 08: 46
    +15
    demian flew from outer space and brought crafty numbers (statistics)))
    All the bad (population)) ........., and the government and the patriots are ALL IN WHITE:
    something that the number of not smart articles on the site began to go through the roof ??????

    Maybe we don’t respect our Mothers at all)))
    And we are considered to be unreasonable uncles and aunts / who try to poor government, who thinks everything as the PEOPLE "improve" (complicate)))
    And the 'aliens' only see the "truth"))))))

    WITHOUT offense, a bad and harmful note; popularizer such as old man & Fedorov))) and the annual MESSAGES (of the Russian people)) by the Resident)))

    It’s not at all the way you wrote (while I am writing at the level of sensations)) in the evening I’ll read more and give the numbers WITH THE RIGHT FINDINGS))))
    1. Mart
      Mart 22 January 2014 09: 02
      +10
      Quote: Asgard
      Maybe we don’t respect our Mothers at all)))


      I can not disagree. good Slogans are just wild. American Dumb American mass culture, decorated in the form of propaganda.
    2. baltika-18
      baltika-18 22 January 2014 09: 12
      +14
      Quote: Asgard
      demian flew from outer space and brought crafty numbers

      Very crafty. He looked at only one side. Since the days of the USSR, no one invested in updating equipment, only grabbed, stuffed pockets. The table can be increased.
      1. Mature naturalist
        Mature naturalist 23 January 2014 01: 14
        +1
        There is another table: "Depreciation of fixed assets" - there has long been 100% almost everywhere.
        There is a third table: out of 100 kWh of gas energy produced at the field, only 10 kWh is to the benefit of the consumer, the remaining 90% are losses on the transportation of gas first, then electricity and heat.
        The conclusion is simple: to minimize the loss of electricity and heat - to process gas into electricity and heat locally, at the place of consumption, but this is possible only for new buildings and gasified enterprises.
        The real cost of 1 kWh in this case is less than 1 rub. Compare with the tariff for the population of about 3 rubles. and for enterprises - 6 rubles. in the Kurgan region, for example
    3. CTEPX
      CTEPX 22 January 2014 12: 51
      +3
      Quote: Asgard
      Demian, a bad and harmful note; popularizer such as old man & Fedorov))) and the annual MESSAGES (of the Russian people)) by the Resident)))

      Nifiga you licked it))!
      And, most importantly, for what? Compare the pusher of the ideas of Medvedev-Dvorkovich-Chubais with the popularizers of the opposite way of life? Mashinina s.
  8. makarov
    makarov 22 January 2014 08: 47
    +4
    Looking at the author’s conclusion, he didn’t give a damn about the opinion of the readers in advance, Fe for the material and the author already only for that !!!
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 22 January 2014 08: 52
      0
      Quote: makarov
      Looking at the author’s conclusion, he didn’t give a damn about the opinion of readers in advance,

      What exactly?
      1. makarov
        makarov 22 January 2014 09: 24
        +2
        in "Author's Note."
  9. pv1005
    pv1005 22 January 2014 08: 48
    +11
    Simple and affordable actions for each person to save electricity in total lead to a significant effect in the form of released electricity and significantly reduce the possibility of accidents or restrictions. For example, electric kettles completely filled with water in a million city, switched on every morning as if by command, or filled in the morning with the right amount of water for a cup of tea - for example, for a quarter - can give triple savings!

    Here, and if you still turn off the elevators (walking is good for health) and latrines only by the type of cesspool (saving water, then we’ll live on the saved money as in paradise. I just don’t want to live like that.
    1. ele1285
      ele1285 22 January 2014 13: 01
      +1
      Cool said
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. atalef
      atalef 22 January 2014 14: 11
      +1
      Quote: pv1005
      Here, and if you still turn off the elevators (walking is good for health) and latrines only by the type of cesspool (saving water, then we’ll live on the saved money as in paradise. I just don’t want to live like that.

      You are absolutely right - the level of electricity consumption is the level of development of society - it is not possible to move forward without increasing energy consumption (direct and indirect)
      Therefore, many are cunning - forcing to save people - whose consumption is already at a minimum, if not less.
      The basic number of kilowatts should provide a person with an acceptable standard of living, and not drive him into conditions. when he is forced to read with a candle.
      With us, the state pays the poor for the poor and retired half the cost of the first 200 kW per month. because .
  10. kot11180
    kot11180 22 January 2014 08: 49
    +13
    I am not a supporter of the fact that Putin stole everything, but in general the price of electricity in the country that produces it should be minimal (as well as gasoline), and if the power system was state, I think it would be so
  11. bairat
    bairat 22 January 2014 08: 52
    +9
    The first method is extremely long and capital-intensive: the path of increasing oil and gas production and the construction of new power generation facilities. The second is significantly less expensive, due to increased efficiency in the use of fuel and energy resources.

    Yes, for Chubais, the second method is less costly and more profitable. No need to build power, just bring to the grave of ineffective old people and old women, they smoked air there. The state is already short of money, the Olympics are on the nose. Gas prices are rising (and what are they not growing for?), Housing and communal services are also not far behind, so you look and there will be no one to pay pensions, again they will benefit.
    1. SRC P-15
      SRC P-15 22 January 2014 11: 40
      +6
      Quote: bairat
      No need to build power, just bring to the grave of ineffective old people and old women, they smoked air there.

      This is how old people and old women will benefit from the introduction of the energy soldering system, there is no need to cast a shadow over the fence. They consume e-mail. energy is minimal, they hardly use air conditioning and a computer. Most of them have a refrigerator and an iron, well, a cooker, if there is no gas. All the negative from this ration will be experienced by ordinary working people. The rich do not care how much they pay, they simply will not notice this innovation. For them it is a penny, they live "in another world", not attainable for a common person. Now, if a rate were introduced, for example, over 1000 kW. pay double or triple, the majority of the people will support it. This will be fair.
      1. family tree
        family tree 22 January 2014 12: 04
        +2
        Quote: СРЦ П-15
        over 1000 kW. pay in double-triple size,

        Yes, in principle, if more than 1000 kW, pay for everything as an industrial enterprise, only, as far as I know, they steal more than others, for them, it’s not a problem for an intelligent electrician to pay, and we, against this background, have a number of fundamental falls like icicles in the spring.
        1. bairat
          bairat 22 January 2014 14: 10
          +1
          Quote: perepilka
          Yes, in principle, if more than 1000 kW, pay for everything as an industrial enterprise, only as far as I know, they steal more,

          Maybe somewhere in the North Caucasus, and so, and in the rest of the Russian Federation, the head of local electric networks, if he doesn’t have expenses with the arrival, will not sit in his place for a long time.
          1. family tree
            family tree 22 January 2014 15: 42
            +2
            Quote: bairat
            Maybe somewhere in the North Caucasus, and so, and in the rest of the Russian Federation, the head of local electric networks, if he doesn’t have expenses with the arrival, will not sit in his place for a long time.

            He just can sit in his place for a very long time.
            But the head of the power sales department, we have one per district, but I don't remember the power grids, about five or six. The loot is cutting energy sales, the networks are not even touched, the main thing for them is to provide contact, otherwise a complaint from the population and acquaintance with the prosecutor's office, even just for low voltage, for a year, on the "recommendation" of the prosecutor, three trances were changed, for more power and one The KTP was additionally cut into, to which 1,5 km 10 and had to be dragged through the gardens, two more trances were in turn. And on the account, they scored, there are common counters for settlements, and we present the transfer for them.
        2. The comment was deleted.
      2. atalef
        atalef 22 January 2014 14: 14
        0
        Quote: СРЦ П-15
        Now, if they introduced the norm, for example, over 1000 kW. pay in double-triple size, then most people will support it. This will be fair.

        First of all, why pay in double-triple size?
        Secondly, 1000 kW per month - that's just so much. I have an average of 1500, and I would not say that I spend it thoughtlessly. True, we have at least heating, at least electric conditioning - nonetheless.
        1. SRC P-15
          SRC P-15 22 January 2014 14: 48
          +1
          Quote: atalef
          First of all, why pay in double-triple size? Secondly, 1000 kW per month - that's just so much

          We apparently live in different worlds. 1000 kW, I said approximately, in fact, we have enough and 500 kW. I have a family of two, about 300 kW "burns out" a month. There is only no air conditioner, everything else is there (stationary car, water heater, stationary computer, etc. on the little things), though there is no gas, I use an electric stove. I don’t follow the savings, but in these 300 kW. fit in. True, we have central heating and water supply.
          1. atalef
            atalef 22 January 2014 15: 03
            +1
            Quote: СРЦ П-15
            There is only air conditioning


            This, of course, is not necessary for you, I have an air conditioner in the summer (and this is almost 7) ​​months almost round-the-clock - 3 kW (it is central to all rooms).
            Therefore, 1500 kW per month is an average, in the summer it reaches 2000-2200 kW per month.
            1. family tree
              family tree 22 January 2014 16: 42
              +1
              Quote: atalef
              in the summer comes to 2000-2200kW per month.

              And how much is a percentage of the salary? (Net, the one on hand, minus all taxes)
              1. atalef
                atalef 22 January 2014 22: 30
                0
                Quote: perepilka
                Quote: atalef
                in the summer comes to 2000-2200kW per month.

                And how much is a percentage of the salary? (Net, the one on hand, minus all taxes)

                in general, I as an employee of an electric company do not pay for the light.
                In general, people have an average consumption of 10 tons of kW per year. This is about 500 shekels a month. The average salary in Israel is NIS 8320. count. In general, this is all on average - but the picture is approximately clear. Pensioners and low-income people spend less. others are bigger, but on average.
                1. family tree
                  family tree 23 January 2014 02: 44
                  +1
                  Quote: atalef
                  in general, I as an employee of an electric company do not pay for the light.
                  In general, people have an average consumption of 10 tons of kW per year. This is about 500 shekels a month. The average salary in Israel is NIS 8320. count. In general, this is all on average - but the picture is approximately clear. Pensioners and low-income people spend less. others are bigger, but on average.

                  Lucky. And from me, in spite of the full. Well, in general, on average, on average, you get 7-8% of your salary, well, in general, like me, only I, one of the highest paid "blue collars". Maximum discharge and the fifth group for electrical safety. Not enough, I have to earn extra money, I’ve found a part-time job on call, but they’ll probably be fired soon, everything has been adjusted there, for a couple of three months and will work without me, but okay, not the first time.
                  1. atalef
                    atalef 23 January 2014 07: 26
                    -1
                    Quote: perepilka
                    Quote: atalef
                    in general, I as an employee of an electric company do not pay for the light.
                    In general, people have an average consumption of 10 tons of kW per year. This is about 500 shekels a month. The average salary in Israel is NIS 8320. count. In general, this is all on average - but the picture is approximately clear. Pensioners and low-income people spend less. others are bigger, but on average.

                    Lucky. And from me, in spite of the full. Well, in general, on average, on average, you get 7-8% of your salary, well, in general, like me, only I, one of the highest paid "blue collars". Maximum discharge and the fifth group for electrical safety. Not enough, I have to earn extra money, I’ve found a part-time job on call, but they’ll probably be fired soon, everything has been adjusted there, for a couple of three months and will work without me, but okay, not the first time.

                    Respect to my colleague, I have the 6th category and the 5th group above 1000V I was already 24 years old, here I’m the deputy head of the department of equipment diagnostics of electric substations (so to speak, checks for predicted maintenance) - I don’t know if there is an analogue of such a Russia and here PPR left 10 years ago.
                    In general, electricians in Israel (if good) earn quite a lot, since youth in this specialty is not high and there is a lot of work in the market. Well, at our place (in the e-company), a person enrolled in a permanent state has the right to dismiss only for two reasons - he had a fight or stole, otherwise the union will not give permission, they can, of course, send them to a premature retirement pension, but in this case, in addition to pension, you get compensation from 250 tons of bucks and above, so I’ll trumpet here until retirement, those another 22 years (67 years) - in addition to my 20 worked - a labor veteran laughing
                    Good luck to you, a good electrician without a penny will never remain hi
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  12. invisibility
    invisibility 22 January 2014 08: 53
    +10
    Does government and business go against themselves?

    Author, are you serious?
    Set of numbers, distortion of facts, etc. Are you a liberal? What is the article about that we devour electricity and interfere with the development of the country. Do you know anything about a social state? Own oil, golden gasoline, powerful power system, kW gold ...
    Everything, even tired of commenting. Minus, fatty.
  13. andrejwz
    andrejwz 22 January 2014 08: 53
    +9
    Instead of investing in the modernization and expansion of networks, smart people decided to knock out the maximum market value of electricity from the population.
    As a child, being with my grandmother was always amazed, she turned on the light when the window was already completely dark and, God forbid, the light was on in the room, and you went out for a short time. I thought that when I die, then ....
    It seems that in my old age I will be a copy of my grandmother.
    1. SRC P-15
      SRC P-15 22 January 2014 11: 48
      +5
      Quote: andrejwz
      In childhood, being with my grandmother was always amazed, she turned on the light when the window was already completely dark and, God forbid, the light is on in the room, and you went out for a short time

      Old people are used to frugality. Previously, when the huts were lit with a kerosene lamp, kerosene was cherished. I still remember how my father lit this lamp: first, he will wipe the glass with paper (newspaper) and then he lights this lamp. We are small, always looked at it with admiration: now it will be light. Lighted, indeed, at dusk. Whoever remembers this will understand me.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  14. Kazakh
    Kazakh 22 January 2014 08: 53
    +5
    Or simply replacing incandescent lamps with modern energy-saving lamps on average can reduce energy consumption in an apartment by 2 times. Costs pay off in less than a year.
    Here, not a single lamp has worked for a year during energy surges (less or more), so there is no saving. At first I thought that the article by D.A.M. wrote laughing Well, it seems that in Russia there are no factories for the production of energy-saving lamps
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 22 January 2014 08: 56
      +1
      Quote: Kazakh
      Well, it seems that in Russia there are no factories for the production of energy-saving lamps

      Why not, they produce it, but they are expensive and burn out in the same way as ordinary ones. Despite all the assurances.
      1. makarov
        makarov 22 January 2014 10: 55
        +2
        At least it's easier with us. 3 year warranty. The first "housekeepers" were shitty, but now 2 years ago I left specially boxes - they work without problems. True, I illuminate the chicken coop with them ... but it's better not to rush from this laughing
  15. Neophyte
    Neophyte 22 January 2014 08: 55
    0
    Reasonable and intelligible! Yes, we are columnists, sometimes inadequate. It tends to strive for contradiction in everything. However, I agree that the groaning of everything and everything is not a sign of a mature mind.
  16. the polar
    the polar 22 January 2014 08: 57
    +9
    The author of the article is an ignoramus on a SPACE scale in economics and power engineering, one word is mudak, so I immediately attached a "Note" to his article so that no one doubted it.
    1. makarov
      makarov 22 January 2014 11: 14
      0
      The cultured and now deceased Chernomyrdin expressed himself differently, like "an eccentric with the letter M"
    2. tvn
      tvn 22 January 2014 13: 03
      0
      the author correctly applies at least units of measure, unlike 90% of articles and comments on the Internet
  17. The comment was deleted.
  18. a.hamster55
    a.hamster55 22 January 2014 09: 00
    +1
    Outrageous patamushta unreal limits. IMHO - 100kW per person. And in addition, pay more.
  19. Orakyl
    Orakyl 22 January 2014 09: 00
    +10
    People don't listen to this pseudo "specialist"! With his numbers, he tries to divert from the essence of the problem, but the point is that in the energy sector we have a mess created on purpose. Ask him a question about pricing, where the tariffs come from, why is the cost of kW * h from the most expensive (ineffective) producer (CHP or HPP) taken as min, why the hell do we need a bunch of network intermediary companies and energy sales of parasites ?, because all their costs ( FOT up to inflated states, rent of VIP premises, corporations, company cars, etc.) are included in the tariffs. Why are new modern e-mail not being built in Russia? station, commissioning of new capacities is practically zero! The answer to everything is the same - it is the genocide of our energy sector and the desire to slow down the development of the country, along the way to rob our people to the thread. The author of the idea is Chubais & Co. (USA).
  20. antiaircrafter
    antiaircrafter 22 January 2014 09: 00
    +4
    Save energy - use kerosene more widely !!!
  21. major071
    major071 22 January 2014 09: 24
    +12
    I went to the garage yesterday and brought home a kerosene lamp (still from my grandmother). I will save energy, and apparently someone is missing because of me. We also need to redo the bicycle for the generator, otherwise I will remain without a computer, and we will take turns in turn with our son to pedal.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. atalef
      atalef 22 January 2014 14: 20
      0
      Quote: major071
      I went to the garage yesterday and brought home a kerosene lamp (still from my grandmother). I will save energy, and apparently someone is missing because of me. We also need to redo the bicycle for the generator, otherwise I will remain without a computer, and we will take turns in turn with our son to pedal.

      A feasibility study is carried out on everything. Maybe a bike’s alteration into a generator, + twisting of you and your son’s pedals (because of which you get hungry faster and to compensate for energy consumption, eat a kilogram of black caviar - as an example), and even because of twilight (there’s nothing to do for a couple of children) --- Electricity of own production is gold hi
  22. JonnyT
    JonnyT 22 January 2014 09: 27
    +8
    For some reason, I immediately recall the footage from the cartoon "chippolino" when the senior tomato says, "After we introduced a tax on the air, you began to breathe less, THIS IS OUTBREAKING !!!! We plan to introduce a tax on rain, on the wind ..."
    When will they burst with their greed! Got it!
  23. mak210
    mak210 22 January 2014 09: 28
    +15
    Setting limits is just keeping campaign promises, nothing personal. They promised to freeze tariffs - no problem, though in part of the limit, the rest will fly to heaven. They promised not to raise the retirement age - they did it, now the person decides when to leave, the state has nothing to do with it. Most of the population will work while they are dragging their legs, since it is impossible to live on such a pension. At the same time, the funded part was "temporarily" raked up, including in non-state funds. Who would doubt that.

    "Live fast die young!" © Pension Fund of Russia


    Recently, there has been increasing suspicion that the rest of the promises will be fulfilled in this way. It seems we are being held for complete idiots. Or is it true?

    At the same time, external debts are growing rapidly, along with the management apparatus, Sochi, the World Cup, etc. Well, we forgive all our debts for the image (Cuba, Cyprus, etc., now Hungary has also contracted to build nuclear power plants for a loan for 30 years, plus incomprehensible money for Ukraine).

    Where did the money come from, Zin? Yes, from the population, you see how richly healed, a mess. Let remember about a bulb of Ilyich.

    By the way, something is not in the know. Abolished fines for industrial enterprises for shortage of electricity? A nice rule, about 10 years ago we left all the lamps for the night to get the limit.
    1. Old Cynic
      Old Cynic 22 January 2014 10: 07
      +2
      Dear, you and your statements go to the Inosmi forum ... Just like that, for comparison. For your worldview, you will be instantly called a troll, a liberal, a white carpenter, if not worse. laughing
  24. Monster_Fat
    Monster_Fat 22 January 2014 09: 38
    +10
    Let's just say, trusting "beautiful" overestimated and underestimated, in which direction, it is clear to numbers, supposedly "statistics" can, unless a very narrow-minded person. All our "statistics" are false from start to finish and exist only to justify the actions of the authorities and to powder the heads of the inhabitants. These statistics are collected by special departments of special services and are absolutely classified information. But, well, even if we take into account that we allegedly do not have enough email. energy, then why is this electricity sold in huge quantities for export ?. Our "guarantor" once mentioned that one of the conditions for joining the WTO is that the price of energy resources within the state should not differ from the average European one by a maximum of 25% and that it is necessary to gradually bring domestic prices to this level. In addition, according to the WTO rules, the state should not limit energy prices, artificially interfere in the affairs of energy producing and distributing companies, supposedly to create competition in the market. This is where, most likely, the legs of all our so-called "reforms" in the energy sector to collapse the unified energy system and increase the cost of using energy for the domestic consumer grow. The fact that the amount of energy consumed in Russia has grown by about 20-50% over the past 70 years is a fact, since this is an inevitable process of human development and that it was necessary to reduce its consumption, like back to caves and live with a torch? Rave. The development of energy consumption had to keep pace with its production and distribution. It is clear that the population itself cannot build power plants and this is the state's business - it must find places for them, build infrastructure there, look for investors and invest itself, because energy development is always economic development. Our state has not done anything for all these 20 years, occupied only with pumping out and selling energy resources abroad. It only provided that the "pipe". All these 20 years, the money earned from the sale of energy resources was stored and plundered or "poured ..." in various funds abroad. The question arises, why was this money not used for the construction of new power plants, distribution systems, etc.? Yes, no one just needs it, it is much easier, without investing a penny, to get the same profit, simply by raising tariffs. Such a scheme has led to the fact that the cost of energy consumption in our country has already come close to its cost in the EU, with significantly lower wages for the majority of the country's population. It is clear that a further increase in tariffs is fraught with a social explosion, and all sorts of "cunning", veiled schemes for increasing these tariffs, such as the introduction of social services, are being invented. norms, etc. The population is trying to accustom them to a false formula - "it's not our fault that we have set such high tariffs, it's your fault, since you consume above the" norm. "The author's article is from this" opera ".
  25. Thirsty for wind
    Thirsty for wind 22 January 2014 09: 41
    +6
    Read smiled.
    The author is irreconcilably cunning in comparisons "then and now."
    He modestly forgot to take into account how much electricity consumption by the population increased (and the capacities are old).
    Forget that the number of consumers in every home has increased in comparison with the "earlier" some tricky move.
    Let's try to list: microwave ovens, computers (and often not one) washing machines, boilers, air conditioners ... In general, the author ignored this, for whatever reasons, it is unclear.
    Regarding the initiative, I will say this; the impression is that someone does not need poor consumers. For this reason, they must leave the stage and give way to those consumers who are not constrained in the means of servicing their carefree life. (parking spaces from the same opera).
    Such calls for savings = barbarism. And frankly in line with the ladies' reforms, to change the "crap for a wattle fence" is either prompted, then time zones, then the renaming of the police to the police. What's next? I can smell a lot of ideas.
    1. SRC P-15
      SRC P-15 22 January 2014 14: 57
      +2
      Quote: Thirsty for the Wind
      I feel a lot of ideas.

      And for some, that would not do, just to do nothing. DAM can be seen from such. winked
    2. The comment was deleted.
  26. Orik
    Orik 22 January 2014 09: 41
    +3
    The only objective of these limits is a hidden price increase when they announced the freezing of electricity tariffs. Do not wash, so ride.
  27. Gardamir
    Gardamir 22 January 2014 09: 54
    +7
    First, Mr. Liberal, leave the Soviet Union alone. There were no such slogans "your mother - yat". Secondly, why do you have lanterns all over Russia on a sunny day?
  28. ilya_oz
    ilya_oz 22 January 2014 09: 57
    +10
    1) Energy-saving lamps burn out too often with us due to power surges, and therefore are disadvantageous.
    2) No one will refuse the refrigerator / washing machine / computer / boiler (when hot water is turned off) and they will simply rip off extra money from people.
    3) From the entry into the WTO, I did not notice a reduction in prices.
    4) It’s not the idea that is outraging, but the consumption rate itself, which may relate to a person living in the same room with Ilyich’s bulb, washing it by hand and not knowing about the Internet.
  29. samoletil18
    samoletil18 22 January 2014 10: 02
    +8
    So, maybe, after all, no one stole her?

    Can. But with the introduction of extortionate tariffs, there will be certain. In the summer I asked one electrician, so he said bluntly: if you are not afraid, you can make consumption at half the meter, but this will already be a banal theft. Special emphasis was placed on the word "theft". And with new ideas, another question: who is the thief really?
    It is easier to reduce the number of intermediaries between the generator and the counter.
  30. Monster_Fat
    Monster_Fat 22 January 2014 10: 10
    +10
    More precisely, the reason for the introduction of "social norms" of payment is clear. In an economically developed country, most of the electricity is consumed by production, that is, the share of consumption by the population is simply negligible and does not exceed 10-15% of the total. However, when the economy is in stagnation and does not work, when enterprises are closed, then the picture on the electricity consumption market changes greatly and consumption by the population begins to play a large role - reaching 30-40% of the total consumption in the country. However, this does not lead to an increase in the income of companies producing electricity in the same way as these are abstract figures showing only the share of consumption in the market, but in fact the amount of energy consumption by the population has not changed in value terms. Thus, manufacturing companies, in order to compensate for the drop in sales in the manufacturing sector, increase tariffs for the population. Thus, the increase in energy tariffs for the population, more than enough shows that the economy of our country is in decline, in stagnation.
  31. Mikhail m
    Mikhail m 22 January 2014 10: 24
    +6
    All these limits are imposed on the desire of officials to report beautifully. The goal is not to raise electricity prices for the population - no problem! We do not raise the scanty noma, but that the people do not fit into these norms is his concern. Let them save. But in the reports you can report: the task is complete! You can drill a hole for the order.
  32. samoletil18
    samoletil18 22 January 2014 10: 25
    +9
    About intermediaries. I live in Yekaterinburg. Yes, Yeltsin is from here, but he is despised here no less than in the whole country. And the city administration came up with ERKTS (a single cash settlement center). All data flows here, they make and send receipts, then accept payment. Everything seems to be comfortable and good. But for 2012. our house, 350 apartments, through the management company has listed (more correctly, the Criminal Code has transferred) over 400000 rubles. for service in ERRC. Ie more than 1000 r for each apartment. Energy distributors also work through them. Moreover, each UK has its own accountant. Energy marketers too. You can pay via any bank, Internet, mobile, etc. This is only 1 example and 1 city. And how many of these parasitic structures are on the way from the generator to the consumer? And the authorities do not know? Or in proportion?
    1. Goodmen
      Goodmen 22 January 2014 14: 31
      +1
      Most likely in proportion !!! Money in the energy sector is spinning ...
      And it is very simple to explain it logically - if they were not in the share, then the producers and intermediaries would be bent over, not consumers.
      We have power always "in the stake" when the pieces are fat and not very ...
  33. DZ_98_B
    DZ_98_B 22 January 2014 10: 31
    +5
    Interesting. the norm means for the rich .... so, the Internet, the computer is a sign of wealth. And in a school in grade 7, a task on geography, Find and download additional material on South America .... T e school for the rich ????
  34. Stinger
    Stinger 22 January 2014 10: 37
    +5
    Everything is easier. The amount of generated electricity remains constant, and the number of intermediaries trading it grows exponentially. Where does it take money to feed them, if the industry is, and energy is at the same level? Only rip off the population. Do not build power plants for your money!
    1. family tree
      family tree 22 January 2014 11: 06
      +6
      Quote: Stinger
      Do not build power plants for your money!

      If for blood. They do not build on state
      The Audit Chamber of the Russian Federation stated that the funds of the federal budget transferred in December 2012 by JSC RusHydro as a contribution to the authorized capital in the amount of 50 billion rubles have not yet been used. The construction of the fuel and energy complex, as provided for by a decree of the President of the Russian Federation of November 22, 2012, has not begun due to the unavailability of project documentation.
      http://www.baltinfo.ru/2013/10/29/RusGidro-perelozhila-vinu-za-sryv-srokov-stroi
      telstva-elektrostantcii-na-Dalnem-Vostoke-na-pravitelstvo-RF-388019
      Currently, the funds received by RusHydro OJSC as a contribution to the authorized capital are in the deposit account with Sberbank of Russia OJSC. Funds were transferred to JSC RusHydro under conditions of insufficient elaboration of projects for the construction of facilities.
      So, at Sberbank, they threw at interest
      At the board meeting, the topic of territorial planning of the Russian Federation in the field of energy was also raised. It was noted that now it is not possible to transfer the lands on which the construction of new generation facilities is planned to land in the energy sector, since the territorial planning scheme of the Russian Federation in the field of energy has not been approved. For this reason, difficulties arise in obtaining a building permit, which may also have a negative impact on the implementation of the project and its implementation on time.

      http://www.baltinfo.ru/2013/10/28/Sroki-stroitelstva-elektrostantcii-na-Dalnem-V
      ostoke-pod-ugrozoi-sryva-po-vine-RusGidro-387798
      So I remember how the field furniture, easily squeezed out the territory in Anapa, for the construction of a "radar" dacha, for a "culture named after rest".
      Pray, they are robed, that Rosatom is not privatized, otherwise it will be completely byad.
      1. Goodmen
        Goodmen 22 January 2014 14: 39
        +2
        Quote: perepilka
        They do not build on state


        Probably not enough, but they are building. I know at least two of them are being built by RusHydro in the Far East ... now they are tendering ...
        And often tenders to increase the capacity of existing power plants are held ... across the country ...
        I’m not protecting anyone, but trying to be fair)))))))))
        1. family tree
          family tree 22 January 2014 16: 58
          +2
          Quote: Goodmen
          Probably not enough, but they are building. I know at least two of them are being built by RusHydro in the Far East ... now they are tendering ...

          Duc, when they write lards, they lay down for a year at interest in the bank, but the Accounts Chamber grabbed the udder, involuntarily you start, and "tynder" and spawn and spinning with a snake in a frying pan.
          1. Goodmen
            Goodmen 22 January 2014 23: 57
            0
            I applaud while standing !!!! Neighing !!!!! Not in the eye, but in the pupil))))))
  35. Salavatsky Ministry of Emergency Situations
    +8
    If you have a pair of light bulbs and a boiler, i.e. you are really a poor person, then this restriction will hardly affect you, and therefore, it cannot cause disturbances on your part. On the other hand, this law really hits those who have a large number of electrical appliances and use them intensively, that is, it directly concerns rich people.


    At my home, not only a couple of light bulbs and a water heater, but also a TV, computer, refrigerator, vacuum cleaner, washing machine and microwave. That is, I am a really rich person? Stunned! So the law hits it for me?
    And if you still have a blender, food processor, heating elements and an electric furnace, then you are really a super-rich man, just some kind of Abramovich! And according to you, the law no longer beats, but it’s digging from all over the place!
    Article minus.
    1. SRC P-15
      SRC P-15 22 January 2014 12: 00
      +1
      Quote: Salavat EMERCOM
      Article minus.

      I agree with you. I would also like to hear about this from those who have already introduced this norm. What is the result of this innovation? Are there any on the site?
    2. The comment was deleted.
  36. Mviktor
    Mviktor 22 January 2014 10: 44
    +9
    If in Kazakhstan, if a citizen has more than two light bulbs, there is nothing to be considered rich; flattery to Russia with its stupid conclusions. In Russia, pensioners have microwaves, refrigerators, gas heating boilers, televisions, water heaters in their apartments, and many air conditioners cannot be called rich, even in terms of income.
    The introduction of limits is a completely stupid idea if the authors of this idea did not pursue the goal of reducing sharply the number of people in Russia to please Americans, they have been writing about this for a long time.
    Energy companies have opened accounts in offshore companies and all profits are pumped abroad. Modernization is not an increase in production efficiency, with the rare exception of those owners who themselves consume their own generated electricity. All of this was seen on TV as Putin emitted establishing order in the electric power industry. want to save on energy consumption of the population so produce household appliances with low energy consumption. diode bulbs at an affordable price for the population. Where is the state policy to increase the energy efficiency of production and utilities or the ban on the release of 100 cotton incandescent bulbs is all that Medvedev is capable of.
    With a tariff that is already higher than the American one, introducing limits is similar to a simple robbery of the population by effective managers. It's time to drive this government scum from the White House, which serves to please social parasites
  37. ImPerts
    ImPerts 22 January 2014 10: 48
    +3
    All this is being done to decouple industry from “expensive” prices. The social norm will be cheap, and the rest will be at maximum. It is not possible to reduce the price for enterprises, the remnants and "mega-efficient" fragments of RAO "UES" do not want to lose their profits. The same "efficient" owners of industrial production do not want to increase (spend) the energy efficiency of their enterprises. Almost a vicious circle. Why almost? Because there is a population!
    How is it in liberal democratic circles? We privatize profits, nationalize losses.
  38. Altona
    Altona 22 January 2014 11: 00
    +8
    No words, at first I want to swear ... And already at home I changed all the lamps to LED from 3 to 6 watts, I do not buy mercury already ... I’m already thinking - can I replace the TV? It’s needlessly eating, a dog, 140 W / hr at zero information ... The refrigerator is also in question ... Buy without KNOW FROST, so that too especially does not eat electricity, havchik and so with preservatives ... And we rub it again for savings, I consume 98 kW / month ...
    It’s a pity, I don’t live on the top floor, I probably need to think about a thermal, solar and wind source of electricity ... It is useless to save electricity, if your share of DPU in the area of ​​housing is calculated ... The officials have no laws of physics, if power consumption decreases, then meters housing is constant, and here at least save, at least do not save, the bureaucratic forehead will quickly hang on you the costs of the monopolists ...
    By the way, a pensioner on the ground floor takes water from the column, and he has zeros on the meters, and they don’t consider the sewage system, it goes for water consumption ...
    1. SRC P-15
      SRC P-15 22 January 2014 15: 09
      +1
      Quote: Altona
      By the way, a pensioner on the ground floor takes water from the column, and he has zeros on the meters, and they don’t consider the sewage system, it goes for water consumption ...

      Is he the one who is celebrating the need on the street? And if not, then how on the counters will there be zeros, if it is customary to drain after the toilet? Or is he carrying water from the street to the toilet? And for the sewage system, he still has to pay, the water consumption has nothing to do with it.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  39. shelva
    shelva 22 January 2014 11: 19
    +7
    Energy in private and by no means honest hands is a direct threat to state security. With the same success, you can give private traders the right to print money or even the power itself.
    On the other hand, the West does not need to be likened to insane consumption and then it is not necessary to put reactors on every corner and flood the fertile floodplain lands under new hydras.
    Many enterprises consuming the declared (knowingly paid) amount of electricity have closed and now they want the private sector to take the advance. Monopoly monsters are squeezing money out of consumers.
    At one time, Tesla proved that electricity does not need to be extracted - you only need to be able to take it - it is everywhere and in any quantity. Also with wireless delivery. Who needs this ?, Chubais and his like energy mafia? Power is simply not given up.
  40. AK-47
    AK-47 22 January 2014 11: 27
    +3
    And we have long introduced limits on electricity, water in Belarus, we pay land taxes, even those living in high-rise buildings, we expect air limits. And what to do, there is no one to intercede, there is no parliament, the bald one does what he wants, palaces need to be built for something. But energy-saving bulbs of Russian production work for three years. good
  41. Per se.
    Per se. 22 January 2014 11: 30
    +6
    The topic of housing and communal services and, in general, the growth of tariffs, already drives many to fury. It got to the point that in the Vologda Oblast they were going to put locks on street water pumps so that only those who paid for and received the key could draw water. Such, damn it, capitalism, next to rivers and lakes. Saving, of course, is a useful thing. The whole question is why these innovations are made, for the sake of prudent management, or for the sake of selfish interests of monopolists and their intermediaries, to increase their profits. Otherwise, the "arithmetic" of the hobbyists will reach the point that, you see, taxes on the air will be invented, according to lung spirometry ...
  42. slaventiy
    slaventiy 22 January 2014 11: 30
    +13
    Well, saving is understandable, but why this pro-Jewish mug (the author of the order) was shy to write at what PRICE electricity is sold to China. Three times cheaper than in the border with China, Amur, Chita ... regions!
    1. Goodmen
      Goodmen 22 January 2014 14: 56
      0
      The Chinese do not pay kickbacks ... There they shoot for it !!!
      And we have a "rolling" control system for EVERYTHING and EVERYTHING !!!
  43. Douste
    Douste 22 January 2014 11: 42
    +4
    Quote: Mart
    Quote: Pharao7766
    In the countryside - connecting the house to gas is really necessary to be a millionaire.


    That's for sure. In my locality, this pleasure comes out to citizens in 200 thousands of rubles, or even more expensive.

    And we have less than 700000 do not come! The pipe goes 15 meters from the house.
  44. Monster_Fat
    Monster_Fat 22 January 2014 11: 43
    +9
    You can "save" a lot. I have an acquaintance who even became obsessed with "saving". He has a limit to spend 100 rubles a day and not a penny more. For several years he reduced his spending, accustomed himself to "saving". Result: a man lives alone - a woman with whom he lived for several years, ran away after the start of "saving", without a family, friends, of course, no, because they are "economically unprofitable", rummaging in the house dustbin, looking for "new things" and various useful things, he is happy when he finds them, he is dressed sloppily and anyhow, but does not "smell", as he washes at work, and washes socks-panties in the same place, since there is such an opportunity. She eats only at work, and very sparingly, she brings part of the set lunch portion home and eats it there. He does not have a refrigerator and a TV-set, because he does not need it. There is a radio-speaks, grabs-carries it constantly with itself, charges it, again, at work. He does not use the toilet in his apartment - he relieves the need for plastic bags that, when he goes to work, he throws them into the trash can. He has a computer - a netbook with low electricity consumption, connected to the lowest Internet tariff (250 rubles per month). He complains that the damned mobile phone is the main "destroyer", but you can't live without it. And so, the person is generally normal, you can even talk to him about something. As he himself told me that at first it was very difficult to limit himself in everything and not be led by all the "goodies" provided by civilization, but gradually he corroded all his "Wishlist" and now he lives, supposedly, a "real" life, content with little and Without being distracted by various stimuli, there was a lot of time for self-education, etc. True, he did not notice one thing - that, in fact, he was thrown out of society, lives, or rather vegetates in his isolated world, sinking more and more into his phobias. This is not a role model - the ideal minimum unit consumes and brings the maximum income to the employer.
  45. Altona
    Altona 22 January 2014 11: 49
    0
    Quote: AK-47
    But energy-saving bulbs of Russian production work for three years.

    -------------------------
    Call the brand, sorry for the curiosity ... I do not see anything except Gauss, Cosmos and Navigator, all these brands are Chinese ... Yesterday, by the way, the last mercury lamp was covered with 11 watts ...
    1. AK-47
      AK-47 22 January 2014 12: 45
      0
      Quote: Altona
      Name the brand, sorry for the curiosity

      It seems "Space", but here, I think, the point is in the absence of voltage drops in the email. networks, I have 3 energy-saving light bulbs in my 17-room apartment, incl. LED, the effect is undeniable.
  46. family tree
    family tree 22 January 2014 11: 50
    +6
    Quote: AK-47
    Quote: SRC P-15
    And if I get old lamps for free (I work as an electrician) ... I need to fight theft, not ...

    Have you tried to start with yourself?

    Okay, figs with you, I will share, although Openel's secret has long been. I got a job, part-time, In general, the trick is that the emergency lighting in the dark, in non-residential premises, is purely for protection. At first, the incandescent paws, they just burned for good, got tired of changing, the KTP is nearby, the voltage is about 240v. Then he shook up his "trash heap", he used to repair TV sets, rake out all diodes, such as D226, they can be easily inserted into the switch. 75 burns like 40, essno and consumption is like 40, and burn for years, the oldest is already seven years old, at the very end it stands. There is one problem left, the bulbs burn out, only during a jump, when the phase wind blows to zero, well, it happens. Then the consumption goes to the full, and bulbs and diodes, now I want another choke, for smoothing at the input, put, so, a small inductance, with a small active one. And the light bulbs, in reserve, are at home, I don't have a pantry there, so they get it "for free", not to run to the store request . At the expense of diodes, it is better to D226g and analogues, see the reference manual, so that the reverse current is at least 200V and that the current holds at 300mA 100, only one half-period must be dissipated. In the living quarters, I don’t advise it, it blinks more, but the corridor, the entrance hall, the landing, and at least the chicken coop, that’s it. soldier
    1. Slavapom
      Slavapom 22 January 2014 12: 53
      +2
      at home, I gradually change bulbs to LED lamps, a good thing by the way, the only prices so far bite.
      1. family tree
        family tree 22 January 2014 13: 38
        +2
        Quote: Slavapom
        at home, I gradually change bulbs to LED lamps, a good thing by the way, the only prices so far bite.

        Let’s wait and see how the resource, as the voltage drops. We put traffic lights on the rail, on the one hand it’s good, it doesn’t go out completely, there are a lot of LEDs there, once in two weeks it replaced the faulty ones and it’s normal, on the other hand, some of them stopped burning in the first week of operation, and expensive, dogs. By the way, look at yourself if everyone is burning, if not one in the lamp. whatWill you share your impressions?
      2. Ivan.
        Ivan. 22 January 2014 16: 41
        +2
        Quote: Slavapom
        a good thing by the way, the only prices so far bite.

        So do it yourself, as I’ll say enough in the subject - store reliability doesn’t differ or are space-based. I make them myself and it turns out much cheaper, more reliable (since they are not counted on the gentle mode and save on semiconductors and even on solder, it is often crappy) and most importantly for myself - the right configuration, power, luminosity, adjustment. Today, the smallest LED 5050 or 5060 three-chip is with a temperature of about 3000 kelvin, the wholesale price is 2-3 rubles. I recommend loading them up to 75% of the current, up to about 40mA with parallel connection and adjusting the brightness several times with the alternator. Rezyuki + capacitor and diode bridge together within 30rub. The efficiency of LEDs and savings within 20% of incandescent 5%, the more powerful the incandescent lamp, the higher the efficiency, etc.
    2. SRC P-15
      SRC P-15 22 January 2014 15: 22
      +1
      Quote: perepilka
      all diodes, such as D226, have pulled out, they are easily inserted into the switch. 75 burn like 40, essno and consumption like 40, and burn for years

      Isn’t it easier to buy a dimmer than to design? Moreover, they now have a built-in switch. True, you have to pay, but the bulbs will not burn out so often. And they usually burn out when turned on, the inrush current increases.
      1. family tree
        family tree 22 January 2014 15: 28
        +1
        Quote: СРЦ П-15
        Isn’t it easier to buy a dimmer than to design?

        Not easier! Amphibian begins to strangle me like a redneck, but then a freebie! laughing Launcher through the diode is half as much, they do not burn out, and so, there is enough light, well, a little more in infrared radiation.
        1. Ivan.
          Ivan. 22 January 2014 17: 05
          0
          Quote: perepilka
          Launch through the diode is half as much, do not burn out,

          To be precise, the diode cuts the lower half-wave and extinguishes 0.7 volts on itself. And all kinds of trimers for those who want to save by overpaying for another, the toad has nothing to do with it - a simple calculation.
          1. SRC P-15
            SRC P-15 22 January 2014 17: 11
            +1
            Quote: Ivan.
            To be precise, the diode cuts the lower half-wave and extinguishes 0.7 volts on itself. And all kinds of trimers for those who want to save

            Only not a trimer (for cutting hair), but a correct dimmer.
            1. Ivan.
              Ivan. 22 January 2014 17: 53
              0
              Quote: СРЦ П-15
              Just not a trimer

              I did not know that such crap exists, I thought that only a trigger, a tripper. All are not Russian words. And correctly, all the same, they are a diode and put them en masse in the porches and different types are not needed there. An incandescent light bulb burns out not from starting currents but from the gradual evaporation of metal, it gradually accumulates on the inner walls and as the thermos works, the internal temperature rises and light output decreases, and when you turn it off and on, the thinned thread simply finishes. All schemes that extend the life of the light bulb due to inrush currents, provided that the device does not fail, will pay off after many years - the savings are not very large, the exception is a very high voltage in the network.
              1. SRC P-15
                SRC P-15 22 January 2014 18: 11
                +1
                Quote: Ivan.
                And correctly, all the same, they are a diode and put them en masse in the porches and different types are not needed there.

                That is why in the hallways, like a black man in a jo ..., the bulbs barely shine. In the house, such a room does not fit, too dull. Actually, in our century, it is better to use a motion sensor with an LED in the entrances. Then there will be more savings, and fumbling in the stairwell in the gloom, this is not an option. And in the bathroom and toilet, lamps with a motion sensor are just that, though you must first fork out.
              2. The comment was deleted.
          2. The comment was deleted.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. atalef
        atalef 22 January 2014 15: 48
        +2
        Quote: СРЦ П-15
        Isn’t it easier to buy a dimmer than to design? Moreover, they now have a built-in switch. True, you have to pay, but the bulbs will not burn out so often. And they usually burn out when turned on, the inrush current increases.


        On energy-saving lamps - such as (fluorescent), the dimer not only does not work (if not special - at a half-block price), but also burns out quickly (due to a starting current surge), but on LEDs in general it is not necessary. They do not burn out.
        1. SRC P-15
          SRC P-15 22 January 2014 17: 06
          +1
          Quote: atalef
          On energy-saving lamps - of the type (fluorescent), the dimer not only does not work (if not special - at a half-block price), but also quickly burns out (due to a starting current surge)

          We are talking about incandescent bulbs, but for energy-saving yes, dimmers do not go. But they go well for halogens, the main thing is to choose the power.
        2. The comment was deleted.
    3. The comment was deleted.
  47. ImPerts
    ImPerts 22 January 2014 11: 52
    +2
    This is from here:
    http://portal-energo.ru/articles/details/id/594
    The physical and obsolescence of the electric power industry urgently requires investment in the industry. The power industry has almost completely become corporatized, therefore direct infusion of funds from the budget into private companies is very problematic. The limited income of the population creates significant obstacles to the growth of tariffs for electricity. It's no secret that tariff growth in Russia is administratively limited. It's no secret that the containment of the growth of tariffs for the population is compensated by the establishment of increased tariffs for organizations and entrepreneurs. And the maintenance of tariffs at an artificially low level for the population and the "crushing" of higher tariffs for legal entities equally impedes the attraction of investments. Russia's accession to the WTO presupposes leveling the conditions for business activity. One of these conditions is the establishment of similar pricing principles, including in the areas of activity regulated by the state. In developed economies, for one product - energy, there is a set of tariffs formed on market conditions ... "
    And a lot of comments)))
    And there are great questions for the creators of energy efficiency:
    When enumerating the norm, consumers will delay until the last payment with meter readings, or transfer payments from winter to summer, when the level of energy consumption is lower. This will most negatively affect the economy of energy supplying organizations and confuse payments;
    What is the likelihood that consumers will be more willing to honestly pay for overconsumption and to whom will the inevitable increase in theft of electricity be attributed in this case?
    If the savings of one month are not counted as an overrun of another, is it fair to ignore the objective difference in power consumption at different times of the year (for example, in the northern territories, where it is dark round the clock in winter and “white nights” in summer)?
    In apartments with a large number of registered, but not living, residents will always pay at a reduced rate;
    In apartments with the opposite situation (where the number of residents is greater than the number registered, for example, in apartments rented out), residents will always be infringed on the right to use a cheap social norm;
    How to effectively debug accounting for the application of standards when people are temporarily outside their primary places of residence (for example, in a summer house), without unnecessary bureaucracy with certificates or abuse;
    How to apply standardized consumption to consumers equal in payment of electricity to the population (religious organizations, garages and outbuildings of citizens, etc.)?
    What about houses that are equipped with electric heating? Every square meter in such a house is already 72 kWh per month.
    How to ensure social justice in cases of involuntary increase in electricity consumption of citizens (for example, electric heating with poor heat supply and hot water supply)?
    How will the energy consumption standards be separately taken into account if “zone” tariffs are applied (different in time of day)?
    How can one adequately assess the results of the 2013 pilot projects for the widespread implementation of standards from January 1 to 2014 years, without having received the full 2013 data at the time of the decision?
    What is the economic and social performance of the planned activities? Will the introduction of standards of mass social irritation cause a disappearing little effect?
  48. Koryak
    Koryak 22 January 2014 11: 58
    +5
    Probably the author, sitting in a yurt, went over koumiss - (If the electricity supplied for export is divided by each resident, then about 11 kWh per person per month will be necessary.) What does this digital symbol mean? Should we save more to sell more? (Recently, there has been a decline in exports to Europe, for them, you see, our electricity is very expensive.) And cheaper for us! 3.80 rub. per kilowatt. For two of us, on average, we spend 220-250 kW per month, well, they will introduce a limit of maybe kW in 80 ...
  49. nov_tech.vrn
    nov_tech.vrn 22 January 2014 11: 58
    +6
    Yeah. A very strange scripture. We take a modest table of energy consumption in Europe and the USA and Russia and see the difference at times, the power supply and energy consumption of the average Russian family is noticeably lagging behind the energy consumption in Western countries, do you suggest that we focus on Senegal or Botswana? In fact, it's simple, since 1990, there have been fundamental changes in the set of household electrical appliances, there has been practically no growth in electricity production during the same time, but in the absence of growth in generation, the number of intermediaries has sharply increased and, as a result, the cost of electricity for the end consumer. Is it possible to limit power consumption, of course, the question is how much. I have all energy-saving light bulbs, a microwave oven only for heating up on trifles, somewhere around 250-300 kW / h, saving 15-20, this is less than losses in the transmission of electricity. The question of pricing is actually "political", why are intermediaries? They are not interested in saving and reducing losses during transportation, they have a cheat on the turnover, the unified power system provides flows depending on the load and minimizes the reserve generation capacity for peak loads. There is a whole science, but effective managers with MBA degrees do not know it, and they do not want to know, the goals are different, the main goal of any joint-stock company is profit, the rest is verbiage.
    1. Slavapom
      Slavapom 22 January 2014 13: 02
      +2
      You are right, and so with all supplies (electricity, gas, water) in Stavropol, Gazprom, regional gas, gorgaz, and then management companies sit only on gas. All of these intermediaries have such weak offices in the city center, stretching for more than a dozen million rubles, with the corresponding staffs and salaries. The same goes for light with water.
  50. Altona
    Altona 22 January 2014 12: 02
    0
    Quote: Monster_Fat
    You can "save" a lot. I have an acquaintance who even became obsessed with "saving". He has a limit to spend 100 rubles a day and not a penny more. For several years he reduced his spending, accustomed himself to "saving".

    -----------------------------------
    Extreme just ... Maybe he really feels so comfortable?
    1. Monster_Fat
      Monster_Fat 22 January 2014 12: 13
      +3
      Says yes. Moreover, he constantly agitates everyone to follow his "example". Just like a member of the Jehovah's Witnesses sect. Here, just questions: how to be with children, family, help to elderly parents, they put him into a stupor, he does not know what to answer, these things are beyond his understanding, because they are "economically unprofitable."