Military Review

Dum-dum bullets: flowers of death

45
Expansive or, as they are also called, “doom-doom” bullets are special bullets, the design of which provides for a significant increase in their diameter when they enter human soft tissues, which leads to a significant increase in their striking ability and / or decrease in the penetration depth of the bullet. Expansiveness, in fact, is understood to mean the ability of such a bullet to expand, increasing its initial diameter when it enters soft tissues or other soft medium. Currently, the use of such ammunition in the military weapons forbidden, but they are widely used for self-defense and hunting. For example, almost all hunting bullets are now expansive. The use of whole-shell military-style bullets in hunting is considered unacceptable.


For many centuries, soft, non-shell lead bullets of comparatively large caliber have been used with various handguns. When hit in soft tissues, such bullets were flattened, which increased their diameter. At this expense, they effectively transmitted their own energy to the target, inflicting severe enough wounds on people. However, by the end of the 19th century, the situation began to change. In the last quarter of a century, the military around the world began to switch to small-caliber rifled weapons 6,5-8 mm (at that time they were considered small, today belong to normal calibers) and smokeless gunpowder.

At the same time, the soft shellless bullets often did not withstand the pressure that smokeless powder created in the barrel of a weapon, and broke off from the rifling of the barrel. Given this circumstance, the designers were forced to move to the widespread use of bullets, which had a shell made of a more solid metal over the lead core (copper was most often used, brass, nickel silver, tombac or steel were also used). Such bullets went along the barrel rifle very reliably, practically without contaminating it.

It was quickly enough established that the damaging effect of the new bullets and their stopping effect are significantly lower than those of the old shell-free ones. This fact was especially sensitive for the armies, which then took part in the colonial wars, which were waged against the so-called "wild" peoples. For example, during the Chitral 1895 campaign of the year, a strong conviction spread among British soldiers that the new bullets they used were ineffective, and the enemies continue to fight even when they were wounded, because modern shell bullets are not able to deform in the wound channel, which means and effectively transfer your own energy to the target. Often the bullets “pierced” enemies through the body, leaving neat inlet and outlet openings on the body and inflicting deadly damage only when they hit vital organs.

Dum-dum bullets: flowers of death

As a result, the leadership of the British army set the task of creating such a bullet that would be able to inflict a wound that was serious enough even to stop the most stubborn fanatic. It is worth noting that many samples of later small arms had a similar effect, for example, the Soviet TT pistol, which had a great penetrating ability, but with little stopping power.

In accordance with a military installation, at the beginning of the 19th century’s 90, a British officer, Captain Neville Bertie-Kleyem, presented new and expansive weapons at one of the British weapons factories located in India (the factory was located in a suburb of Calcutta called Dumdum). bullets to the popular 303 British cartridge. This cartridge was used with Lee-Metford rifles, and later with a Lee-Enfield rifle. Neville created a new bullet by removing copper alloys from the tip of standard Mark II bullets .1 on 303 mm. Such an operation allowed the soft lead core of the bullet to be exposed. New ammunition was widely used by the British army during the Tire campaign of 1897-1898. During the battles, new bullets showed impressive stopping power. Since then, the name "dum-dum" for this type of ammunition has become a household name.

At the same time, contrary to common speculation, the British army did not adopt Ammunition Neville Bertie-Clay. At this time in the UK itself, on the Vulvichsky Arsenal, independent work on the creation of such bullets was in full swing. Here they created shell bullets that had a bare lead core with a cavity inside. Today such bullets designate HP - hollow point, that is, bullets with a cavity located in the nose. These bullets were called Mark III, the British army adopted them in 1897 year, while in the same year they were able to push out an improved version - Mark IV. By this time, the term “dum-dum” has become so widespread that it was used as an unofficial name for all expansive bullets. Therefore, Mark IV began to be called the same, although they were not created at the Arsenal in Dum-Duma, but in Great Britain itself.


Already in 1899, such bullets were banned from using the Hague Convention, a special, as it was called, “Doom-Duma” declaration, which was approved and signed by 15 states. At the same time, 11 countries refrained from signing it. It should be noted that the reason for the adoption of this declaration was not only humanism, which the military and politicians decided to show. It’s just that such ammunition didn’t allow us to achieve a high speed of the flight of a bullet, which means that the range of their use also decreased. At the same time, when building up a powder charge, a soft lead bullet “dum-dum” falls from the rifling inside the barrel and almost does not rotate, hammering the rifling in lead. Moreover, at this very time, the armies of the world began to arm themselves in large numbers with machine guns and magazine rifles, and it turned out that the expansive bullets had another serious drawback. While the cartridge was being fed from the tape (magazine) into the barrel, it could be deformed, which led to stops and delays in shooting, as well as to the failure of the weapon.

Naturally, the bans imposed did not prevent the belligerent states from using such a powerful means of moral influence on the enemy. In fact, not a single armed conflict of the 20th century was not without their use, although their use was camouflaged at the same time. The adopted Hague Declaration did not apply to hunting and police small arms ammunition. Some samples of these weapons were designed for ammunition, which were in service with the army. For such samples, slightly modified expansive bullets were produced quite easily. Such bullets in different ways and in relatively small quantities could get into the army.

In addition, there have always been army craftsmen who, during a lull at the front (this practice was widespread during a positional war), independently cut down with a file or cut the tops of ordinary bullets. At the same time, such munitions were formally banned and were not accepted by the army, but no case of punishment by the commanders for their use is known. Payback could come only if, after being captured by the enemy, the prisoner was found such ammunition. Such "lucky ones" were usually shot on the spot.

The temptation to possess such a type of ammunition could not avoid the USSR. In the year 1939, a bursting (expansive) bullet DD was recommended for adoption by the Red Army. This bullet consisted of a shell with cuts on the top, a lead core, and a special ballistic tip made of plastic. Production of these bullets was deployed on the basis of the plant number XXUMX. Factory workers were able to master the production of these bullets, but used off-spec plastics for their release, which led to the fact that mass-produced bullets could not pass the tests.


During the war, in the 1942 year, the plant tested the DD bullet of a simplified design that did not have a ballistic tip. Such a bullet did not meet the requirements of peacetime in terms of sensitivity, but given the simplicity of its release and the design as a whole, as well as the satisfactory results on the accuracy of shooting and matching the trajectory with ordinary bullets, DD was approved for adoption.

The DD bullet later became the basis for the creation of a similar ammunition - 7,62-mm assault rifle cartridge 1943 model of the year. This cartridge has received the designation P-44. After carrying out a series of tests for explosive action, the maximum range was established at which the expansive action of the bullet manifested itself, it was 300 meters. At large distances, the P-44 did not deform when a target was hit, acting like a normal bullet. The P-44 bullet was not put into service due to the discrepancy with the desired performance characteristics (explosive effect at a distance of up to 500 meters).

Despite the ban on the use of the military, these bullets have not lost their relevance in the XXI century. They are necessary to solve those problems where the determining factor is the high stopping power of the ammunition, and not the firing range (pistols, hunting rifles). The use of dum-dum bullets in hunting weapons seems to be preferable, since they rarely leave wounded animals (wounded animals that after some time are doomed to death). These qualities have made expansive ammunition very common for police operations and civilian short-barreled weapons. It is important for the policeman to have a high stopping action, which is combined with an extremely low probability of hitting the target, which, in turn, reduces the risk of offending bystanders.

Information sources:
http://otvaga2004.ru/kaleydoskop/kaleydoskop-ammo/exo-dum-dum/
http://otvaga2004.ru/kaleydoskop/kaleydoskop-ammo/legenda-iz-indii/
http://www.popmech.ru/article/12467-tsvetyi-smerti/
http://weapons.cybercop.com.ua/articles/view_article/2
http://ru.wikipedia.org
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45 comments
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  1. makarov
    makarov 21 January 2014 09: 15
    +7
    "At the same time, non-sheathed soft bullets often did not withstand the pressure that smokeless powder created in the barrel of the weapon, and fell off the rifling of the barrel. Given this circumstance, the designers were forced to switch to the widespread use of bullets that had a shell over the lead core made of more hard metal (most often copper was used, brass, cupronickel, tombak or steel were also used). Such bullets went along the rifling of the barrel very reliably, practically without contaminating it. "

    Correct the author. (from memory) The first shell bullets were developed by Russian gunsmiths for ammunition rifle Berdan. The shell was cardboard, for gray rifles, for red carbines. It was mainly intended against barrel lead, and as an obturator.
    1. Timeout
      Timeout 21 January 2014 15: 25
      +3
      A little correct, from my memory. The first cartridge with smokeless powder and a coated bullet was developed by Lebel in 1886 for a magazine rifle of 8 mm caliber. (8x50 Lebel first small-caliber). The Berdan 1 hinged bolt rifle was 10,67 mm caliber. cartridge for smoky powder and a non-shell bullet and Berdan 2 of the same caliber for a longitudinally sliding shutter. Bullet weighing 5 ev. 63 dollars (24,16 g) - cylinder-ogival stamped from pure lead (a heavy shell-free bullet from pure lead inflicted very serious injuries, especially when it entered the bone), in a paper wrapper. The paper wrapper protects the rifling from lead, insulates the metal of the bullet and the sleeve, and also does not allow the longitudinal paths to be cut into the pool by the fields during the passage of the bullet through the barrel. To distinguish a cavalry cartridge from an infantry cartridge, the paper for wrapping a bullet of a cavalry cartridge was colored pink and the wrapper of an infantry cartridge white. The cavalry cartridge has less weight of gunpowder, respectively, lower energy and speed of the bullet.
      1. makarov
        makarov 21 January 2014 17: 32
        +1
        And I’ll add a little bit. Cartridges for Berdanka were ordered in America, since domestic capacities could not achieve precision manufacturing.
        1. dustycat
          dustycat 21 January 2014 19: 10
          +1
          Most likely pure corruption ...
        2. Timeout
          Timeout 22 January 2014 04: 57
          0
          Quote: makarov
          since domestic capacities could not achieve precision manufacturing.

          Fact, there is a fact!
  2. Ingvar 72
    Ingvar 72 21 January 2014 09: 34
    +1
    Hunted with such a groundhog, ordinary sew, and the groundhog manages to slide into a hole, and expansive thrown, though the holes at the exit are huge.
    1. smile
      smile 21 January 2014 14: 21
      +3
      Ingvar 72
      I didn’t know that they hunt marmots ... and what, eat? Or did you destroy it as a pest? My grandfather said that children hunted for mowers when it was hungry (pre-war Ukraine) ... and so ... by the way, I’m writing without any subtleties.
      1. Jipo
        Jipo 21 January 2014 15: 23
        +3
        Fat is used for medicinal purposes, the meat is really harsh (it may have been cooked incorrectly), but generally edible. A lot of groundhog hats were worn by many in the 90s, right from the mink. )))
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 21 January 2014 16: 06
          +2
          Quote: JIPO
          the meat is really harsh (maybe it was cooked incorrectly

          Any game must be stewed for a long time, groundhog - about 3 hours. hi
          from a distance right mink. )))
          Painted can not be distinguished at all.
      2. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 21 January 2014 16: 05
        +2
        Quote: smile
        I didn’t know that they were hunting groundhogs.

        Hello Vladimir. hi It tastes like nutria and steppe hare, tasty. Very healthy fat. They say they reach a weight of 18 kg. My biggest trophy is 10,5 kg. You won’t creep up on your belly, they’re scared, and they’re letting the car close, so they beat it mostly from the car. And after the shot you need to run to pick up, if you crawl to the hole - you do not pick out.
        1. smile
          smile 21 January 2014 17: 08
          +1
          Ingvar 72
          Hello to you, too. Thanks - interesting. Damn ... 18 kg - never mind a rodent - a mouse louse ... I just never saw them alive, only on TV. Now it’s clear why my grandfather said that in hungry times in Ukraine they tried to dig gophers burrows in the hope of finding the grain they had stocked - such a thick cattle of grub for the winter needs a lot.
          1. Walking
            Walking 21 January 2014 18: 35
            +2
            Quote: smile
            Ingvar 72
            Hello to you, too. Thanks - interesting. Damn ... 18 kg - never mind a rodent - a mouse louse ... I just never saw them alive, only on TV. Now it’s clear why my grandfather said that in hungry times in Ukraine they tried to dig gophers burrows in the hope of finding the grain they had stocked - such a thick cattle of grub for the winter needs a lot.


            Groundhog and ground squirrel are two big differences. Groundhog hunting in particular is called wartming.
            1. smile
              smile 21 January 2014 18: 42
              +1
              Walking
              Perhaps I confused, and dug gopher holes, and not "Surkovskie" ones :))) - call me, I understand this issue like a general in necromancy :))) But I still catch the external difference between these two animals - on their TV saw. :)))
              But that for hunting groundhogs they even came up with a special term - a revelation for me.
            2. papik09
              papik09 21 January 2014 19: 28
              -2
              Sorry sir, but there are no two differences a priori. It is necessary to say "a significant difference", and you are trying to "counterfeit" the Odessa citizen? recourse hi
        2. Cherdak
          Cherdak 21 January 2014 20: 29
          +1
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          And after the shot you need to pick up the run


          Have you tried it like that? In our Macedonian way?
          1. tilovaykrisa
            tilovaykrisa 21 January 2014 21: 24
            +4
            Yeah, load them, for example, into a machine gun and give the groundhog a turn at point blank range, and the rest of the skin on a keychain.
      3. tilovaykrisa
        tilovaykrisa 21 January 2014 21: 22
        +3
        This hunt is a sport and many people practice it professionally, the purpose of hunting is to hit a groundhog as far as possible, the groundhog is extremely shy and lives in open areas, so this is not an easy task, if I am not mistaken, the record is about 1000 meters. And about it gobble up what is the point? The amount of trophy and the distance with which it is obtained as an occasion for pride are important here.
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 21 January 2014 22: 38
          +2
          Quote: tilovaykrisa
          then the record is about 1000 meters

          With me, one police subfire shot from the SCS on a bar with 250m. Hit the neck area. Pretty boy. hi
          1. smart ass
            smart ass 22 January 2014 08: 29
            +2
            I was always against hunting for trophies ... For me, it’s much easier for a person to kill than an animal .. There’s always something for a man
          2. tilovaykrisa
            tilovaykrisa 22 January 2014 21: 16
            0
            Really handsome.
        2. smile
          smile 22 January 2014 02: 30
          +1
          tilovaykrisa
          Thanks for the comprehensive answer. Interesting.
    2. Max_Bauder
      Max_Bauder 21 January 2014 14: 57
      +3
      Not well guys! don't you really feel sorry for the animals ?? !! What did they do to you?

      moreover leave such holes ?? not in ancient times we live to hunt for food, meat in any store rampart.

      Another thing is when a lot of wolves divorced, then I agree that it is necessary to control the number, and even people are attacked, as we have in auls in Kazakhstan. And then to carry out the shooting humanely, if you took courage - tore one side, then be kind to take the courage to finish off in the head, so as not to suffer.

      I don’t shoot animals, but I think it’s necessary to shoot a person if he kills people, and he needs to be stopped, and then, with the permission of the state, so as not to be a criminal, as the gangsters shot in the 20s, for example, or in a war, fie three times so that it wasn’t never.

      According to sabzh, I support that such bullets be, but to use it at personal discretion when it is already humane impossible. smile

      PySy. In the film "The Last Samurai," the leader of the samurai rebellion, Katsumoto, asked the hero of the cruise, Captain Nathan Algren, whether he had nightmares at night (and he, shortly before meeting with the samurai, killed defenseless children of women and old Indians in ... the language does not dare to call the battle, rather massive murder on Little Bighorn), to which Cruz himself asked the samurai: are you not?
      The samurai answered: nightmares only torment a warrior if he regrets what he has done.
      I think our grandfathers did not regret that they defeated the Nazis, although of course they saw everything terrible.
      1. Kir
        Kir 21 January 2014 15: 35
        +4
        The question is wolves or wolfhounds, just the latter are more impudent and smarter and in percentage terms there is more harm from them, but with regards to humanism I agree to finish it and it is necessary to hunt in general only out of necessity, and not for fun.
        According to "The Last Samurai" a typical Hollywood beleberd, it is better to watch them "Seven Samurai", and then what is it when the Americans are in 1856? year, they fired on Japan, only because of the closure of sales markets, and remember the plague blankets with the purchase of scalps, they are tormented only not by conscience, but by exorbitant greed and ambition, although there are People there too, but in percentage terms, no matter how small, if not minuscule.
        1. Max_Bauder
          Max_Bauder 21 January 2014 15: 54
          +2
          I respect very much that you have common sense not to kill for fun and not to torment an animal,

          about the film, I just wanted to explain, describing the scene, that at that moment the samurai made it clear to the American that in order not to torment conscience, one should not do shameful things in the war, namely to kill the civilian population by arranging genocide, the warrior should fight the warrior, and then show respect for him, killing is not painful, giving him a chance to die in battle is an honor.
          1. Kir
            Kir 21 January 2014 18: 30
            0
            They are right and wrong at the same time, it’s just that for the Samurai, unlike the Westerners, as well as for Us Russians (not a nationality but a community and the Spirit that has historically developed in this territory) and many peoples of the East, honor and oath are above one thing, and look at how they punished the other in Japan for various crimes, sometimes extremely cruel and how they fought during the Second World War, but to their honor they and Ghibli as Warriors, just the attitude to life and death was different, at least it was.
            About shameful things, read the one whom I value and consider Mostly Right (the text is clearly not 100% of it, but the essence is reflected correctly) Gongsun Yang-a "The Book of the Ruler of the Shang Region", quite savage methods of warfare, as they say, there is no dispute, But the goal what is? The creation of a Strong State, and not personal gain, which we see in the history of the United States all the time, and another aspect of the extermination of the Indigenous by aliens, if only some things could be looked at from a different point of view, and so ... .. the occupation in all its glory.
          2. samoletil18
            samoletil18 26 January 2014 15: 20
            +1
            Quote: Max_Bauder
            the samurai made it clear to the American that in order not to torment conscience, one should not do shameful things in the war, namely to kill the civilian population by organizing genocide, the warrior should fight the warrior, and then show respect to him, kill not painfully, give him a chance to die in battle it's an honor

            Once in China, his descendants showed themselves in terms of genocide, demonstrating enviable diligence.
            1. Kir
              Kir 26 January 2014 15: 25
              0
              Not in China alone. in Korea, they were clearly not angels, But to their Honor (I repeat) the Ghibli themselves are like Warriors, and not like some champions of something there all over the world
  3. Walking
    Walking 21 January 2014 11: 11
    0
    I use these on the hunts.
  4. Black
    Black 21 January 2014 13: 18
    -1
    Expansiveness when hitting a boar’s leg, almost tears it off ... terrible power.
  5. waisson
    waisson 21 January 2014 13: 19
    +9
    In Bosnia, under the Gorazhdy, Muslims used them against us, although they are prohibited by the UN convention.
    1. RUSS
      RUSS 21 January 2014 15: 45
      +1
      Quote: waisson
      In Bosnia, under the Gorazhdy, Muslims used them against us, although they are prohibited by the UN convention.


      And in Chechnya, perfumes were also used with a shifted center of gravity.
      1. Walking
        Walking 21 January 2014 18: 28
        +4
        With a displaced center, this is almost all 5,45 caliber bullets from the AK-74.
        1. MAG
          MAG 21 January 2014 19: 05
          +3
          At 5.45, bite off the edge with pasatizh enough and there will be a doom-doom, but we cut it off with a canvas and made a cross over. Dogs immediately stopped, forever))
          1. Bur39
            Bur39 28 January 2014 23: 09
            +1
            You put the bayonet-knife into the nippers mode and after three you load it into the store, stops all the bites.
        2. Bosk
          Bosk 21 January 2014 20: 53
          +1
          Well, not everything, but in the 7n6 cartridge, such a scheme is used that is specially designed for the "somersault" of the bullet, again, I remember the GDR bullets with a built-in container ...
      2. air wolf
        air wolf 21 January 2014 19: 27
        0
        Quote: RUSS
        Quote: waisson
        In Bosnia, under the Gorazhdy, Muslims used them against us, although they are prohibited by the UN convention.


        And in Chechnya, perfumes were also used with a shifted center of gravity.


        For information, bullets of small caliber 6mm are all with a displaced center of gravity!
        1. waisson
          waisson 21 January 2014 20: 25
          +1
          I note about 7.62 hi
        2. Bogranz
          Bogranz 22 January 2014 03: 03
          +1
          More precisely, it will be said that ALL bullets (unless they are round for shooting from a musket) have a center of gravity shifted to the rear. This is due to the very shape of the bullet.
          1. Bongo
            Bongo 22 January 2014 07: 58
            +4
            Upon hitting the body, absolutely all sharp-pointed high-speed bullets are prescribed to "roll" to a greater or lesser extent. When hitting the bone, they very often fragment, increasing the severity of the injuries. Rumors about the low lethality of "standard" bullets for rifled weapons are greatly exaggerated.
  6. Knizhnik
    Knizhnik 21 January 2014 14: 09
    +1
    The temptation of efficiency in stopping action is too great to refuse. Now there are many types of bullets, combined, hydroshock, etc.
  7. Owl
    Owl 21 January 2014 14: 15
    0
    The necessary ammunition for law enforcement, expansive - for pistols, half-shell - for machine guns.
  8. Andrey Peter
    Andrey Peter 21 January 2014 14: 59
    +4
    I heard this story, in 1939 the Finns howled and began to accuse ours that they were using ammunition prohibited by the convention. Everything turned out to be much simpler, some of our soldiers guessed to cut off the tip of a three-line bullet - the effect turned out to be like a dum-dum bullet laughing
    1. Corsair
      Corsair 21 January 2014 16: 14
      +2
      Quote: Andrew Peter
      I heard this story, in 1939 the Finns howled and began to accuse ours that they were using ammunition prohibited by the convention. Everything turned out to be much simpler, some of our soldiers guessed to cut off the tip of a three-line bullet - the effect turned out to be like a dum-dum bullet

      To increase the "stopping" power of ammunition with a lead bullet, North American and Canadian hunters cut its edge "cross-to-cross" to the depth of the slots up to a quarter of the length of the part protruding from the cartridge case.

      The effect is "stunning" ...
    2. bootlegger
      bootlegger 21 January 2014 16: 34
      +2
      Yes, I saw it in a movie about a bear hunt.
      But after all, accuracy certainly suffered from this. Yes, and in war it is more advantageous to leave a wounded animal at a distance of 500 meters than a corpse.
    3. alex-cn
      alex-cn 21 January 2014 16: 37
      0
      This is a trick yet painted by Buturlin
    4. waisson
      waisson 21 January 2014 17: 57
      0
      this trick was repeated and we sawed off the shirt and bared the lead core
  9. Al_lexx
    Al_lexx 21 January 2014 16: 44
    0
    Thanks, interesting. And then I always thought that the Germans developed it .. repeat
    1. makarov
      makarov 21 January 2014 17: 40
      +1
      We have unknowingly some "experts" sighting bullets that explode against a solid barrier, called explosive. But its initiation, as a rule, took place if it rested against the bone. Through soft tissue passed right through as usual. Such bullets were used by both the Germans and ours.
      1. Sour
        Sour 21 January 2014 17: 52
        +1
        Quote: makarov
        We have unknowingly some "experts" sighting bullets that explode against a solid barrier, called explosive. But its initiation, as a rule, took place if it rested against the bone. Through soft tissue passed right through as usual. Such bullets were used by both the Germans and ours.

        Bullets with explosive filling are now used not only as sighting bullets, but also as standard bullets, in heavy sniper rifles and large-caliber machine guns. In particular, the 12,7 x 99 mm cartridge, "Raufoss MK211", is known and widespread. Previously, such bullets were used mainly by police special forces to neutralize blocked and especially dangerous criminals. However, their cost subsequently decreased, and since the beginning of the 90s they have been increasingly used in military conflicts.
      2. La-5
        La-5 21 January 2014 22: 40
        +1
        Discontinuous is a popular name, according to the "charter" they are called MDZ (instantaneous incendiary) and PZ (sighting-incendiary) differ in design. PZ bullets are less sensitive and can pass through soft tissues, but MDZ will not leave such a "chance". Bullets are often used in heavy machine guns.
  10. Roman 1977
    Roman 1977 21 January 2014 18: 36
    +2
    When the Austro-Hungarians began to use DUM-DUM bullets during the First World War, then our soldiers, as soon as they were found by the Austrians, they were immediately shot on the spot. Vienna announced that for every Austrian two Russian prisoners will be killed. Then, in February 1915, the Supreme Commander of the Russian Army Nikolai Nikolaevich issued an order: for each prisoner killed in Austria, he will hang four, fortunately "we have enough Austrian prisoners to do this." The Austrians canceled the execution order, and their soldier was just thrown bullets Dum-dum from pouches ...
    1. Kir
      Kir 21 January 2014 18: 41
      +3
      It’s a pity your flag is in the way, and there was a proposal to continue what was started, for each of Our captured and imprisoned, Booth and others, not to guarantee US citizens in Russia personal security, especially with regard to members of all kinds of funds there !!!
    2. mirag2
      mirag2 21 January 2014 23: 06
      0
      A word for word quote from Pikul's book, "I have the honor", or about Rasputin ...
  11. Bosk
    Bosk 21 January 2014 21: 08
    0
    Expansive bullets are good somewhere in the "California", for example, try to use them in our region in winter on someone wearing a quilted jacket or a sheepskin coat ... there is a pretty good chance that you spoil the sheepskin coat, and in addition from the angry owner of this spoiled You will not get a little sheepskin coat on "tinsel". The stopping action of the bullet should be reasonable, not driven to the point of absurdity.
    1. Silent
      Silent 21 January 2014 22: 10
      +1
      In California? And it will be good on the hunt if you are in a bear at point blank range, but he does not fall. By the way, shell shooting during hunting is prohibited, as neither humane nor effective.
      1. Bosk
        Bosk 21 January 2014 23: 42
        -2
        I meant pistol bullets, because there is less gunpowder in an expansive cartridge than in a conventional cartridge, for obvious reasons, it turns out that if there is a lower muzzle velocity and a more "gentle" bullet, when it meets any obstacle, the bullet opens prematurely ...
  12. Silent
    Silent 21 January 2014 22: 08
    +1
    A very "humane" ammunition capable of killing a person almost immediately, without suffering. In military affairs, it is not effective for this reason. It is more profitable for the state if a soldier of the enemy army should strain supplies more.
  13. ko88
    ko88 21 January 2014 22: 13
    +2
    God forbid to get injured from such a bullet belay
  14. La-5
    La-5 21 January 2014 22: 32
    0
    In war, all methods are good and often the parties to the conflict do not care about all sorts of prohibitive conventions.
  15. as4sa
    as4sa 22 January 2014 05: 28
    +1
    Remember the popularity of Margol in criminal circles, the little thing without a shell, you fart even louder, the inlet is minuscule, but the output is ....
    1. makarov
      makarov 22 January 2014 06: 22
      0
      Curiously, and what do you eat, if you emit such an "orphan exhaust" ??? laughing
  16. Bosk
    Bosk 22 January 2014 20: 59
    0
    From my little experience, I know that expanding bullets for pistols are effective at a distance of up to 10 meters and God forbid starting a firefight with an enemy with a "shell" at a greater distance, and the effectiveness is, frankly, overestimated, according to statistics, most of the flying occurs from hemorrhage due to that these bullets inflict not deep but large-scale wounds.
  17. Tatiana K
    Tatiana K 15 October 2016 22: 54
    0
    Are there expansive bullets of machine-gun cartridges of 50 caliber?
    1. Cat man null
      Cat man null 15 October 2016 23: 16
      0
      Quote: Tatyana K
      Are there expansive bullets of machine-gun cartridges of 50 caliber?

      What you ... bloodthirsty laughing

      IMHO no. Doom-thoughts and other evil spirits are intended to enhance their action in manpower. Only.

      A 0.5 '' bullet hitting a person is already causing ... a lot of trouble. "Expansiveness" is simply unnecessary for this.

      Somehow yes