Military Review

120 mm self-propelled gun on the Wolf chassis

121
In the corporate video on the results of operations of the Nizhny Novgorod "JSC" Central Research Institute "Petrel" in 2013 year, among other things, lit up "model sample developed" Petrel "120-mm self-propelled gun on the chassis of the wheel (6h6) armored vehicle MIC-39373" Wolf-3 "(Chassis developer - OOO Military Engineering Center of the Military Industrial Company holding Russian Machines). As you can see, the 120-mm gun of this system is a modified swinging part of the 120-mm towed gun 2B16" Nona-B ".




A prototype model of a 120-mm self-propelled gun on the wheel chassis (6х6) of an armored vehicle VPK-39373 "Volk-3" (c) of the Central Research Institute "Burevestnik" developed by TsNII Burevestnik OJSC
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  1. moremansf
    moremansf 20 January 2014 11: 30
    +19
    Interesting machine !!! A good gift to our gunners !!! Only now while the layout ... that test show ... We will wait for the news !!!
    1. igor.borov775
      igor.borov775 20 January 2014 11: 54
      +4
      Yes, there is already a mobile option, No fresh thoughts and technologies, we all hang out where a niche is occupied, Export is another matter, What a shame it seems there is a sample of VEGA,
    2. A.YARY
      A.YARY 20 January 2014 11: 58
      0
      Oops - I’m pretty!
      And the idea is not bad for the infantry and not only ....
      1. Genry
        Genry 20 January 2014 12: 39
        +9
        This can be useful only for anti-terrorist operations, where you need a couple of shots, from a safe distance, slowly, to ruin a house or fortification.

        For large-scale military operations, you need a howitzer with a multiple-charge breech (mobile battery), for quick shooting of 5 or more shells, within 30 seconds and leaving the scene (front-line use, for firing at your troops, with the probability of resistance from the enemy).
        1. ed65b
          ed65b 20 January 2014 13: 48
          +4
          Quote: Genry
          This can be useful only for anti-terrorist operations, where you need a couple of shots, from a safe distance, slowly, to ruin a house or fortification.

          Rather, they will do it for them. Arrived and fallen down, Mobility is high.
        2. DEfindER
          DEfindER 20 January 2014 14: 43
          +1
          Quote: Genry
          This may only be useful for counter-terrorism operations.

          It seems so, because how it will hit with direct fire is generally unclear, only shoot with a parachute or something .. But as a mobile mortar, the campaign is ideal ..
          1. Vasek
            Vasek 21 January 2014 01: 23
            +1
            Quote: DEfindER
            It seems so, because how it will hit with direct fire is generally unclear, only shoot with a parachute or something .. But as a mobile mortar, the campaign is ideal ..


            Maybe it is rotary (for "direct fire")?
            But in general - really, why carry a gun if you can carry it?
            I like it too...
        3. matross
          matross 20 January 2014 15: 02
          +1
          Quote: Genry
          you need a howitzer with a multiple-charge breech (mobile battery), for quick shooting of 5 or more shells, for 30 seconds and leaving the scene

          The rate of fire of Nona 8-10 rounds per minute. What does not suit you?
          1. Basileus
            Basileus 20 January 2014 18: 59
            0
            Price. Why BB or special forces Nona, when such a machine is enough?
        4. StolzSS
          StolzSS 20 January 2014 20: 48
          +1
          If you need to destroy a house with a 100 mm BMP-3 cannon, it’s quite coping, so it’s not a new city, but such a machine will also work for a war in Africa ..
      2. AVV
        AVV 20 January 2014 21: 32
        0
        Our craftsmen savvy not a flea, but the whole Wolf !!! Class!
    3. Gluxar_
      Gluxar_ 20 January 2014 12: 25
      +4
      Quote: moremansf
      Interesting machine !!! A good gift to our gunners !!! Only now while the layout ... that test show ... We will wait for the news !!!

      And what is the interest then? How does this option differ from towed? What is the profit?
      The car is more for "wheelbarrow lovers". All the same, I want more advanced and universal samples. For example, with automatically controlled AGS, then this is really serious support for the infantry.
      In this case, the idea is interesting, for a mobile breakthrough and gain. But what ammunition does it carry? What a reservation, so as not to undermine the entire ammunition case. What calculation, who gives target designation, how is communication and target designation carried out?

      There are many questions, the fact is that an intermediate link between "real" and manual artillery has been looking for a long time ... but is it really necessary?
      1. avt
        avt 20 January 2014 13: 54
        +2
        Quote: Gluxar_
        And what is the interest then? How does this option differ from towed? What is the profit?

        good Outstripped. You can only add a question - how to direct horizontally? Again in the stowed position and turn the car around ?? And if there is no place to turn around - on the gas and tick? For me - a commercial ersatz for the impressionable at the exhibition, maybe someone will bite. The car does not pull on a full-fledged self-propelled gun, well, do not install, let alone a tower - you cannot make a sector wider. It would be better just to have the "Wolf" in tow with a calculation and a minimum ammunition load, but the car itself would be brought to mind faster and the tests would have passed.
    4. vladkavkaz
      vladkavkaz 20 January 2014 18: 44
      +4
      moremansf
      I looked at the comments, it’s all negative, but for me ... if I could put this car in STAT, SME, as battalion artillery, from the experience of two conflicts in the Chechen Republic, it would not have a price.
      The existing Cornflowers with a 82 mm caliber-bullshit tear on the slate of the sheds, not reaching the target. 120mm mortars, some kind of blow, removed from the ministry battalions.
      Regimental means are forever reduced to DAG, rarely PAG, and until you get back ...
      But everything, as always, rests against the structure that we are in charge of the states, there is a feeling gathered by those who didn’t smell gunpowder for a while, but in general the states give birth on the principle that the worse the better ..
      The existing ROOPs in SMEs are nonsense, not the right unit.
      At least someone, someday, would listen to those who fought and fulfill their requirements and not the requirements of any parketsharkun commanders ...
  2. Dwarfik
    Dwarfik 20 January 2014 11: 30
    +6
    Listen friends! I do not know the characteristics and test results, but I like it! As support for land operations local - like it!
    1. igor.borov775
      igor.borov775 20 January 2014 12: 02
      +7
      What you like, explain there is a better option, Recently, one thought has been gnawing after the collapse of domestic science, all this is a long-gone option, Already more than 20 years running NONA what else is needed, there is a VEGA option and science does not stand still, Nothing breakthrough if exported to hot countries, yes
      1. URAL72
        URAL72 20 January 2014 13: 18
        +5
        Reliable and proven art part on a cheap and mobile chassis, we can not expensively (and isn’t it important now?) To increase the number of weakly vulnerable (not armor here, but mobility, coagulation-deployment time) artillery. A plus.
  3. Hikar
    Hikar 20 January 2014 11: 31
    +1
    I wonder where to put the ammunition when driving? or carry a cart
    1. lelikas
      lelikas 20 January 2014 12: 12
      +1
      Most likely in the side boxes, and in the "cabin" there should be room.
      Well, nobody canceled the cart in the form of "Ural" laughing
  4. predator.3
    predator.3 20 January 2014 11: 32
    +14
    this gun does not look on the "wolf", it is better as it is!
    And the "wolf" is better than ATGM or MANPADS.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. SibRUS
      SibRUS 20 January 2014 11: 47
      +12
      For the Arabs with their carts the very thing! soldier
      The car is more suitable for bandits - shot and washed off!
      1. ed65b
        ed65b 20 January 2014 13: 49
        +3
        Quote: SibRUS
        For the Arabs with their carts the very thing! soldier
        The car is more suitable for bandits - shot and washed off!

        Well, why is there a variant from the recent past
        1. TS3sta3
          TS3sta3 20 January 2014 14: 08
          +3
          and even from the long past
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. Dardanec
      Dardanec 20 January 2014 12: 06
      0
      Everything is correct, so it can even be used as an anti-tank ...
    5. 31231
      31231 20 January 2014 12: 15
      0
      I absolutely agree. Sculpting an infantry armored car and a BB artillery is stupid. For single shots there are ATGMs. And here we need a sighting and carry ammunition inside and artillery still somewhere to land.
  5. alone
    alone 20 January 2014 11: 33
    +7
    Exactly the same 105mm was made by the Chinese. And there was an article about it. Only for some reason the Chinese sample was called stupid and meaningless. Let's see what they say about the domestic product) laughing
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Onizuka teacher
        Onizuka teacher 20 January 2014 14: 20
        +1
        Chinese 122 mm.
        1. TS3sta3
          TS3sta3 20 January 2014 14: 26
          0
          I saw it. and?
    2. samoletil18
      samoletil18 20 January 2014 18: 38
      0
      Quote: lonely
      Exactly the same 105mm was made by the Chinese. And there was an article about it. Only for some reason the Chinese sample was called stupid and meaningless. Let's see what they say about the domestic product) laughing

      Well, I myself wanted to mention this article. There, my review was in the context of the popular and washed away. But I got, I didn’t get ... In general, if a Chinese is cheaper, Africans, it is clear that they will choose.
  6. 120352
    120352 20 January 2014 11: 35
    0
    Is it more reliable on wheels than on tracks, on our off-road? And what, these wheels from bullets and fragments do not deflate? And the caliber of something is small: 120mm. After all, there were already 152 mm guns.? I’m just not an artilleryman, but I know the numbers, but here you can’t see progress in them.
    1. Evgeny_Lev
      Evgeny_Lev 20 January 2014 11: 38
      0
      Well, the BE is a technician for his tasks.
      And why is this 120 mm is not enough?
      The normal landmine for this caliber is.

      In terms of supply, yes, the question is, but I think there is a cargo variant of the Wolf, with a body. On the battery a couple - three pieces and norms like it should be.
      1. Gluxar_
        Gluxar_ 20 January 2014 12: 30
        0
        Quote: Evgeny_Lev
        In terms of supply, yes, the question is, but I think there is a cargo variant of the Wolf, with a body. On the battery a couple - three pieces and norms like it should be.

        And what is the point then? All the same, light armored vehicles are special equipment, mainly for reconnaissance. The presence of AGS and several ATGMs in the "luggage" compartment should be more than enough for the "saboteurs" to work. To count on the success of a breakthrough of lightly armored vehicles and the occupation of some serious milestones ... this is some kind of mess, no sense, not the level.
    2. wasjasibirjac
      wasjasibirjac 20 January 2014 15: 23
      +2
      weight 152 mm. guns pretended? his return? wheeled vehicle, in principle, can and can withstand 1-2 rounds of 152 mm. howitzers, and then most likely the wheels apart. here the caliber is less, so the weight and return are less and much. This machine is probably suitable for arming light brigades and airborne forces, where there is no way to use the normal D-30. judging by the presence of a horizontal handwheel, horizontal guidance is possible within certain limits. the shells will be located in the side armored boxes, the calculation of 3 people + driver, in the position can serve as a carrier of ammunition, because I did not notice the automatic loading mechanism. but without more or less complete performance characteristics of the machine there is nothing to argue about.
  7. svp67
    svp67 20 January 2014 11: 36
    +8
    Of course, it’s good that they are developing it, but in such a way, it’s better to leave it in museums ... How to quickly fire horizontally at large angles, how long it takes, how to shoot direct fire, especially at negative angles and is it even possible this is? There are many questions, but the answer = not enough ...
    1. lelikas
      lelikas 20 January 2014 12: 16
      +2
      Quote: svp67
      There are many questions, but the answer = not enough ...

      Do not consider this papelats as a wheeled tank - it is a wheeled mortar.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. luiswoo
        luiswoo 20 January 2014 14: 45
        +2
        Quote: lelikas
        Do not consider this papelats as a wheeled tank - it is a wheeled mortar.

        The wheel mortar is this:

        And at the base of the Wolf they riveted something from the category of "non-fish-non-meat"
    2. evil hamster
      evil hamster 20 January 2014 12: 54
      +1
      Quote: svp67
      There are many questions, but the answer = not enough ...

      This is because such questions.
      Quote: svp67
      How to make quick aiming horizontally at large angles
      as in a towed mortar.
      Quote: svp67
      how long will it take
      fold the stove, turn it, lay the stove => profit
      Quote: svp67
      how to shoot direct fire
      as well as from a towed mortar - no way.
      1. svp67
        svp67 20 January 2014 13: 58
        +1
        Quote: evil hamster
        as in a towed mortar.

        But the artillery system used in it
        a modified swinging part of the 120-mm towed gun 2B16 "Nona-B".
        No longer MORTAR ... Or rather, not only mortar, in fact its value ...
        Quote: evil hamster
        as in a towed mortar.
        So yes not so, I think time will be spent twice as much ...
        Quote: evil hamster
        put the stove on, turn it over, lay out the stove => profit

        And in tow it is made much easier and most importantly faster ...
        Quote: evil hamster
        as well as from a towed mortar - no way.

        Who told you that?

        Ballistic installation of a 120 mm rifled combined gun (in the version of recoilless guns), 1970
        1. evil hamster
          evil hamster 20 January 2014 16: 10
          +1
          Quote: svp67
          No longer MORTAR ... Or rather, not only mortar, in fact its value ...
          It shoots like a mortar and not otherwise (since we are talking about None-B)
          Quote: svp67
          So yes not so, I think time will be spent twice as much ...
          Well, technically, it’s quite possible to organize quite decent aiming angles on such a panzer, if Caesars and Archers are in the range of + - 30 and this is with their high chassis, 155 cannons with high ballistics, then with a low ballistic gun and cool trajectories can be obtained if desired + -45. Do not forget - this is a prototype, the military will like the idea - the idea will not develop, they will not like it, they will not find a foreign customer - that means not fate.
          Quote: svp67
          And in tow it is made much easier and most importantly faster ...
          We lose in the maneuver by fire, we win in the speed of deployment of coagulation - actually for a number of units and tasks it may make sense, don’t you?
          Quote: svp67
          Who told you that?
          Ahrenet, the victory of engineering over common sense. Is it serial? Do you have any troops? In practice, ever used? Shells / grenades available for this case? And the main question, but it just needs to, is it necessary to sculpt LNG from a mortar in modern conditions?
          1. svp67
            svp67 20 January 2014 18: 37
            +2
            Quote: evil hamster
            We lose in the maneuver by fire, we win in the speed of deployment of coagulation - actually for a number of units and tasks it may make sense, don’t you?

            Then it’s better not ...
            NONA - ICS
            For firing from the 2A60 gun, the same ammunition is used as for the towed 2B16 gun and self-propelled 2A51.
            Maximum firing range:
            ~ high-explosive fragmentation shell - 8,85 km,
            ~ high-explosive fragmentation mine - 7,15 km,
            ~ high-explosive high-explosive projectile - 12,8 km.
            Minimum firing range:
            ~ high-explosive fragmentation shell - 1,7 km,
            ~ mine - 0,45 km.
            The maximum aiming rate of fire is 8-10 rds / min.
            Cumulative projectile at ranges up to 1000 m punching a browne plate over 90 mm thick located at an angle of 650 °.
            I don’t think that they shoot only at a hinged trajectory ...
            So that there are shells and tasks may arise ...
            1. evil hamster
              evil hamster 20 January 2014 19: 52
              +2
              Well, this is understandable, but the point is to sculpt Nona on the Wolf - cheap, easy, small-sized. Nona SVK - a full-fledged self-propelled mortar, is not particularly light and not small. Actually, something only on the Boomerang chassis should in theory become the battalion artillery of the new medium brigades, as I understand it. Is the presented panzer-mock a clear hint of what is planned? light brigades (if they are still planned of course) on the Wolves proper.
              1. svp67
                svp67 20 January 2014 20: 10
                +1
                Wait and see...
                Yes, and NONA is not a mortar, but something NEW ...
                Quote: evil hamster
                on the boomerang chassis

                Great success for them ... the right thing ... And probably we should no longer be guided by NONA, but by VIENNA ...
                1. sds555
                  sds555 20 January 2014 22: 30
                  +3
                  By the way, new information about the combat module for the Boomerang appeared, today there was an arms show in Tula, and he flashed there
                  1. sds555
                    sds555 20 January 2014 22: 34
                    +3
                    Here is another photo
                    1. sds555
                      sds555 20 January 2014 22: 43
                      +2
                      Here's another interesting video at 18:30 you can see the model of the sau on the Armata and Kamaz platform, about the 2a88 gun it’s also interesting
                      1. sds555
                        sds555 20 January 2014 22: 46
                        0
                        And here is something interesting for the sau at 13:20 and others.
                      2. Astral
                        Astral 21 January 2014 02: 13
                        0
                        Quote: sds555
                        Here's another interesting video at 18:30 you can see the model of the sau on the Armata and Kamaz platform, about the 2a88 gun it’s also interesting


                        in this video, the coalition is spotlighted in the finished version
                      3. sds555
                        sds555 21 January 2014 03: 28
                        0
                        This is what I meant: "Coalition" is a sau on the unified platform "Armata"
                2. The comment was deleted.
                3. sds555
                  sds555 20 January 2014 23: 17
                  0
                  Impression for GDP
                  1. sds555
                    sds555 20 January 2014 23: 28
                    0
                    In more detail about showing the technique of GDP
                    1. Astral
                      Astral 21 January 2014 02: 43
                      0
                      Share information about the Flamaste anti-helicopter sniper system.
                    2. sds555
                      sds555 21 January 2014 03: 41
                      0
                      hi
                      Unfortunately, there is practically no information about this complex
                4. sds555
                  sds555 20 January 2014 23: 39
                  +1
                  A bit more
                  1. sds555
                    sds555 21 January 2014 00: 03
                    0
                    The stages of development of combat modules for the BTT, by the way, apparently this is the final form, BMP Kurganets, Putin will not show bullshit (the very first one is "Berezhok")
                  2. sds555
                    sds555 21 January 2014 00: 14
                    0
                    There is still such a photo
          2. PLO
            PLO 20 January 2014 20: 27
            +2
            This self-propelled guns is an initiative development of the Petrel, so it has nothing to do with the planned light brigades.

            in any case, this self-propelled guns in our army is absolutely not needed, except that the explosives will be bought, but even for them such a system is not needed, the absence of an SLA makes it ineffective
      2. svp67
        svp67 20 January 2014 19: 10
        0
        Quote: evil hamster
        In practice, ever used? Shells / grenades available for this case?

        Domestic 120-mm rounds for firing from the 2S9 Nona-S cannon. From left to right: with shells with ready-made protrusions - 3OF49 high-explosive fragmentation shells with a steel body and 3OF50 high-explosive fragmentation explosive; with a guided projectile ("Kitolov-2"); with feathered high-explosive 120 mm mines 3OF34 and OF843B (with cast-iron hull)
        1. evil hamster
          evil hamster 20 January 2014 19: 54
          +1
          And what actually of these shells can be used using the above shit thing?
          1. svp67
            svp67 20 January 2014 21: 03
            0
            Quote: evil hamster
            And what actually of these shells can be fired using the piece given above?
            So I wonder ...
  8. svp67
    svp67 20 January 2014 14: 16
    +2
    Quote: evil hamster
    as well as from a towed mortar - no way.

    The experience of firing mortars at small elevation angles with emphasis on wood. Luga artillery range.
    The experience of firing a mortar at low elevation angles with emphasis on an earthen mound. Luga artillery range.
    1. evil hamster
      evil hamster 20 January 2014 16: 23
      +1
      Thank you very interesting photos. However, regarding the issue under discussion, is there any practical sense? According to the suddenly appeared armored vehicles, one doesn’t shoot like that, for some stationary purposes - this is the same story, the initial speed is IMHO somewhere around 320 m / s, which means a direct shot range of 450-500 meters is likely. So if necessary, something hit it on the flat path it’s something it should not be far away otherwise the flatness will not work, and so close that the calculation may be in the range of the enemy’s hand guns. But is it even necessary? If you are an artilleryman, could you describe a case when such a thing is necessary and impossible to dispense with an RPG, ATGM, fit a tank or self-propelled guns for direct fire?
      P.S. By the way, the above-described ersatz can also, in principle, be driven back to the hill, the question is why.
  • kind
    kind 20 January 2014 11: 42
    0
    You can’t shoot directly, it’s closer to the mortar. Most likely the barrel is smooth without rifling judging by the recoil for such a caliber.
    1. Evgeny_Lev
      Evgeny_Lev 20 January 2014 12: 15
      +1
      Nona is rifled.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  • Moore
    Moore 20 January 2014 11: 44
    +2
    120-mm gun 2B16 "NONA-K". Introduced into service in 1986. The weapon is designed to defeat enemy manpower, weapons and military equipment in the interests of the airborne assault brigade.

    Gunners, explain why this is on a wheelbase? Hit and washed off? And really, how can I shoot direct fire from this?
    1. wanderer_032
      wanderer_032 20 January 2014 18: 24
      +1
      On a wheelbase, it makes sense to create such self-propelled guns only if there is a need to equip units of your army with homogeneous (wheeled or tracked) equipment, for mobility.

      This gun is not intended to be aimed directly at, it is not its task.
      The main objective for such guns is the fire support of artillery fire mobile units in offensive operations (hence the installation on a wheeled chassis).

      By the way, someone mentioned ammunition here. A characteristic feature of the NONA guns of all types is the ability to fire any 120mm mines, including NATO ones.
  • BOB48
    BOB48 20 January 2014 11: 45
    0
    Down and Out trouble started!
    1. RBLip
      RBLip 20 January 2014 11: 50
      +2
      Quote: BOB48
      Down and Out trouble started!

      beginning, sorry, what?
      and the device resembles this
      1. kind
        kind 20 January 2014 12: 07
        +1
        this unit will be more practical.
        1. RBLip
          RBLip 20 January 2014 12: 20
          +1
          I think so. although ... a wolf for some kind of conditional Syria-Pakistan will be completely nothing ...
      2. SibRUS
        SibRUS 20 January 2014 13: 29
        +1
        Attempts to create such machines began even before the start of the Second World War, but there were no mass applications of them.
      3. The comment was deleted.
  • AlexxxNik
    AlexxxNik 20 January 2014 11: 46
    +2
    normal landmine, if there is a Nonovskiy ammunition, then its power is almost equal to 152mm artillery bomb, due to the thin walls of shells with preliminary cutting. the only thing I did not like was the small clearance, maybe it changes on the march.
    1. Flooding
      Flooding 20 January 2014 11: 54
      +3
      Quote: AlexxxNik
      the only thing I didn’t like was the small clearance, maybe it changes on the march

      Well, this is one of the well-known features of the "Wolf" family - variable ground clearance.
  • avdkrd
    avdkrd 20 January 2014 11: 48
    +2
    Quote: 120352
    Is it more reliable on wheels than on tracks, on our off-road? And what, these wheels from bullets and fragments do not deflate? And the caliber of something is small: 120mm. After all, there were already 152 mm guns.? I’m just not an artilleryman, but I know the numbers, but here you can’t see progress in them.

    this car has its own niche and its own market. In any case, this is better than a towed AU. Caliber is not enough for what? It is unlikely that this car will be positioned as self-propelled guns for tank troops, but for mobile brigades it is. Interesting pointing angles and the ability to shoot direct fire. An interesting car with a very powerful gun.
  • alekswolf63
    alekswolf63 20 January 2014 11: 49
    +6
    An unsuccessful layout, when firing from the wheels it will jump, it will be difficult to load the gun, without a mechanical supply of ammunition, the gun will get dirty off-road, and direct fire is structurally absent. Judging by the photo, the angles of fire are limited, it looks like more "mortar" than a full-fledged howitzer.
    1. lelikas
      lelikas 20 January 2014 12: 31
      +2
      Quote: alekswolf63
      An unsuccessful layout, when firing from the wheels it will jump, it will be difficult to load the gun, without a mechanical supply of ammunition, the gun will get dirty off-road, and direct fire is structurally absent. Judging by the photo, the angles of fire are limited, it looks like more "mortar" than a full-fledged howitzer.


      Shooting only from the stop - where to jump - then, for good, no one will shoot.
      In the open space, it is easier to charge it than sitting in the tower of NONA, the dirt problems still with PMV, the tarp successfully solves.
      With corners - at least 90 he definitely has, no more
      but the military needs to say whether this device is needed or not, although they need everything that shoots, and even they need wheels. laughing
  • Dwarfik
    Dwarfik 20 January 2014 11: 50
    +4
    Most likely, this technique was conceived as a support fire engine, according to the principle of mortar calculation, but mobile. Naturally, it does not replace a full-fledged Art installation, but as an addition in local collisions, I think it will fit perfectly. In any case, there is not enough information, we will wait for additional information!
  • mountain
    mountain 20 January 2014 12: 01
    0
    In, I have not seen such a monster. With pleasure, I will wait, further fate, of this weapon.
  • Arh
    Arh 20 January 2014 12: 08
    0
    I believe that the Wolf, Tiger, Kamaz Typhoon, Shot, Bear, Scorpio and other similar machines must walk on water, be amphibians! ! !
    1. lelikas
      lelikas 20 January 2014 12: 21
      +3
      And still low to fly and self-digging on command. laughing
      Most modern floating cars have problems accessing an un-equipped shore, if there is no beach there, they can hardly fight with a strong current, it is better to spend the volume on something more useful.
  • Basileus
    Basileus 20 January 2014 12: 09
    +3
    This is definitely better than a towed mortar, although it costs accordingly. As for direct fire - interestingly, the authors of these comments shot direct fire from a mortar?))
    1. Evgeny_Lev
      Evgeny_Lev 20 January 2014 12: 18
      +1
      Nona shoots with both mines and shells.
    2. Evgeny_Lev
      Evgeny_Lev 20 January 2014 12: 18
      0
      Nona shoots with both mines and shells.
    3. lelikas
      lelikas 20 January 2014 12: 22
      +1
      Quote: Basileus
      the authors of these comments shot a direct fire from a mortar?))

      Judging by the number of people wishing to direct fire, they only do it every day.
      1. avg
        avg 20 January 2014 14: 09
        +2
        Quote: lelikas
        Judging by the number of people wishing to direct fire, they only do it every day.

        Nona can fire direct fire using a 3BK19 projectile. The initial velocity of the 3BK19 cumulative projectile (called “Approach-2” during the development, the projectile weight was 13,2 kg) is 560 m / s, which allows for effective firing at targets of the “main tank” type at a range of up to 600 m. 600 mm
        1. Basileus
          Basileus 20 January 2014 18: 57
          0
          I'm afraid that only the combat module of the self-propelled Nona is worth half that wolf)
  • Pelican
    Pelican 20 January 2014 12: 09
    +1
    Dead end idea. For such a machine, the tool is redundant. It would be better to experiment with, for example, an 82mm "Cornflower".
    1. lelikas
      lelikas 20 January 2014 13: 23
      0
      Quote: Pelican
      Dead end idea. For such a machine, the tool is redundant. It would be better to experiment with, for example, an 82mm "Cornflower".

      From the exhibition of models flashed shots of "Tiger" with this flower.
  • Russ69
    Russ69 20 January 2014 12: 15
    +2
    Quote: Pelican
    For such a machine, the tool is redundant. It would be better to experiment with an example with 82mm "Cornflower".

    A mortar probably would have been better ... Interestingly, this development is on its own initiative or by order of the Moscow Region.
  • VL33
    VL33 20 January 2014 12: 16
    0
    A good machine in the army is larger and closer to the border. :)))
  • Corsair
    Corsair 20 January 2014 12: 26
    0
    Judging by the photo, the cannon will be able to fire "direct fire" only by "substituting" the side projection of the "Wolf" ...
    Or not? Maybe she has a narrow "external specialization"? Then why is it necessary?
    What are your options (opinions)?
    1. Field
      Field 20 January 2014 13: 11
      0
      They outplayed the tanks?
    2. avg
      avg 20 January 2014 13: 19
      0
      Last century. Rather, an advertising move. The main thing for them is to push their base under anything.
      Quote: Corsair

      What are your options (opinions)?
    3. Basileus
      Basileus 20 January 2014 19: 05
      0
      Does the phrase "internal troops" tell you anything?
    4. Basileus
      Basileus 20 January 2014 19: 05
      0
      Does the phrase "internal troops" tell you anything?
  • Salamander
    Salamander 20 January 2014 13: 07
    +8
    Give such fluff to Kalina! laughing laughing laughing
  • Zordan
    Zordan 20 January 2014 13: 09
    0
    Nice unit!
  • nazgul-ishe
    nazgul-ishe 20 January 2014 13: 11
    0
    A lot of tools of all kinds and different. It would be a good tool, and specialists will find him application.
  • evil hamster
    evil hamster 20 January 2014 13: 14
    0
    In the movie from where the image data actually lit up a lot of interesting things, a 57 mm sea gun, a coalition mining stand (a tower with a barrel, a separate barrel, and possibly parts of the az)
  • Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 20 January 2014 13: 18
    +2
    Well, what they say in Russia: the third grade is not a marriage!
  • REDBLUE
    REDBLUE 20 January 2014 13: 26
    0
    Something seems to me this matter is some kind of Kulibin in his garage bungled.
  • Chicot 1
    Chicot 1 20 January 2014 13: 35
    +1
    It seems like a pretty self-propelled gun turned out. In principle (in theory) it can be very useful in mountain infantry (mountain infantry) units ...
    But, as they say, "theory, my friend is dry, and the tree of life turns green." And only practice can give an exhaustive answer to the question whether such self-propelled guns are needed in our army. Or at least thorough testing of it in the troops ...
  • Cherdak
    Cherdak 20 January 2014 13: 43
    +5
    Prove to me that this is not a "creative find" of the next "creative managers" who admire the Swedish design of the useless Archer? Where are they going to use this miracle besides parades? What are the greenhouse conditions? And what convoy with outposts should accompany such beauty?

    THERE IS A 120-mm SELF-PROPELLED AUTOMATED WEAPON “VIENNA”

    Its deployment and use are clear.
    1. Salamander
      Salamander 20 January 2014 17: 10
      +1
      This is a project so far, it is unlikely to be adopted. But it’s interesting to see ... laughing
    2. Basileus
      Basileus 20 January 2014 19: 08
      0
      To begin with, there are no veins yet. And he ended up costing by no means cheaper than a pair of sabzha wolves.
      1. Our
        Our 21 January 2014 11: 01
        +1
        How not? They are already being sold and put to mine in Azerbaijan.
        1. Basileus
          Basileus 21 January 2014 11: 46
          0
          In the army there is only an installation party, in the BB - not at all. The army chose to buy the Host, which Vienna is not suitable for soles.
  • Al_lexx
    Al_lexx 20 January 2014 13: 51
    0
    An interesting solution, in the format of local conflicts and the fight against gangs.
  • JonnyT
    JonnyT 20 January 2014 14: 03
    +1
    the news is yet another proof that the domestic military-industrial complex is not sitting idle) ...... it is strange of course that they turned their attention to wheeled self-propelled guns .... on the arms market in this segment France, Germany, South Africa, Israel ... so just so you can’t enter the market ...... it remains only to wish good luck!
  • wanderer_032
    wanderer_032 20 January 2014 14: 06
    +2
    The idea is interesting of course.
    But why was the gun installed like that? After all, in order to bring him ready for firing, you need to perform many operations.
    1. Find a suitable place for firing (since there are no side supports, you will either have to look for a flat area, or prepare it with a trench tool).
    2. Set self-propelled guns at a firing position.
    3.Prepare self-propelled guns for firing (uncover the barrel, establish a sight, get shells, and aim at the target). At the same time, I do not see automated LMS here (it seems that the gunner can work only with optics).
    4. Open fire on readiness (by order).
    Wouldn’t it be better to place the gun on a platform with hinged sides (thereby increasing the area of ​​the gun’s support) above the rear axles, providing the self-propelled guns with an additional 2 side supports and an automated ballistic control system (for faster alerting and better firing accuracy), and the same electric guidance (add.).
    One gets the impression that this is a very budget (if not for the WOLF-3 chassis) version of the "NONA-S".
    Probably by order of some Middle Eastern country whose delivery time for such weapons is running out.
    In my opinion, the "NONA-S" on the BMD chassis (BMP, armored personnel carrier) will be an order of magnitude better than the ACS in this version.
    1. wanderer_032
      wanderer_032 20 January 2014 14: 23
      +1
      PS It would be nice to add a planning dump as well (to prepare the sites, otherwise you won’t get a shovel).
      1. Vasek
        Vasek 21 January 2014 01: 56
        0
        Quote: wanderer_032
        PS It would be nice to add a planning dump as well (to prepare the sites, otherwise you won’t get a shovel).


        Or immediately on the basis of a bulldozer / grader / scraper! laughing soldier
        1. And Us Rat
          And Us Rat 21 January 2014 04: 22
          0
          Quote: Vasek
          Or immediately on the basis of a bulldozer / grader / scraper! laughing soldier

          You can stick to this "peaceful tractor" laughing (does anyone know what is this at all? request )

          1. KG_patriot_last
            KG_patriot_last 21 January 2014 05: 51
            0
            can remote minesweeper
  • Owl
    Owl 20 January 2014 15: 12
    0
    How much "ammunition load"? Why did you choose a vehicle of small dimensions and not widespread in the Armed Forces and Explosives? If due to its autotransportability, then the IL-76 (the main vehicle of the VTA) takes objects that are large in size and weight. Most likely, the WOLF is "untwisted". My personal opinion: for mobile units of the Armed Forces and Explosives, an armored "Ural" with a gun (120-152 mm) is more suitable, on such a machine it is possible to install a more powerful weapon, and a larger ammunition vehicle, and, following the example of Sweden, an automatic loader can be installed (for rapid fire and subsequent change of position), and defensive anti-aircraft small arms can be installed.
    1. Cherdak
      Cherdak 20 January 2014 15: 20
      +2
      see Self-propelled artillery installations around the world (wheeled systems)

      http://3mv.ru/publ/vooruzhenie_drugikh_stran/samokhodnye_artillerijskie_ustanovk

      i_vsego_mira_kolesnye_sistemy / 13-1-0-9133

      A rather controversial fashion for the introduction of wheeled artillery self-propelled systems based on the experience of military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan.
    2. abc_alex
      abc_alex 20 January 2014 15: 52
      0
      What prevents to carry the BC on the second "Wolf"? Say, equipped with engineering facilities? You understand that there will be more than one howitzer in the field. The battery does not have one car or two. The "engineering" Wolf will fit easily under a hundred shots.

      As I understand it, this car does not set the goal of creating a light self-propelled howitzer. This is a replacement for towed howitzers.
      1. leon-iv
        leon-iv 20 January 2014 15: 55
        0
        ET is clear that TZMka will question whether there will be 1 BK in the Mortar itself.
      2. The comment was deleted.
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. vladkavkaz
      vladkavkaz 20 January 2014 18: 35
      0
      Owl
      And who told you that the WOLF, not large, takes a little load?
      Open the site, but look, there are options for both biaxial and triaxial, quite a car.
      But the URAL with a gun 152-well, if you are a suicide bomber, then perhaps fight on it ....
  • leon-iv
    leon-iv 20 January 2014 15: 32
    +2
    Here the people then heaped up theories.
    We look Bear platform is for BB. Where are we now not calm Caucasus and CA. We are planning heavy / medium / light teams. Wahhabis who are drawn to Asia to drive such a sweetest thing.
    What do we have here
    1 successful mortar.
    2 Wheeled platform for increased resistance to blasting
    3 Low cost of operation relative to tracked platform.

    Cons
    1 mobility outside hard ground.
    2 Lack of AZ
    3 There will be no serious BC and OMS

    But for the quick destruction of the Wahhabis, the very thing is for the BB and the Light Brigades.
    1. evil hamster
      evil hamster 20 January 2014 16: 42
      +1
      Quote: leon-iv
      1 mobility outside hard ground.
      As they say, this is not a bug, it’s a feature laughing
      Quote: leon-iv
      2 Lack of AZ
      So he is absent on None-S and IMHO in Vienna - shells with ready-to-use rifling do not seem to contribute.
      Quote: leon-iv
      3 There will be no serious BC and OMS
      I agree with bk, but here with the OMS there is a moot point. There are no obstacles for his appearance, you can’t see anything on the layout, well, that's why he’s the layout. The main question is, do you need a serious SLA for such a clearly niche machine?
      1. leon-iv
        leon-iv 20 January 2014 16: 52
        +1
        As they say this is not a bug this is a laughing laugh

        But the price tag is many times lower. I say chasing bearded men is the sweetest thing.
        The main question is, do you need a serious SLA for such a clearly niche machine?

        This is not a bug, it's a feature.
        We do not need an astronomical price tag. And a competent operator will quickly find out where it is necessary using data about the target.

        And yes, offer our VV-kam such a thing to destroy the Wahhabis tear off with their hands.
        1. samoletil18
          samoletil18 20 January 2014 19: 04
          -1
          Quote: leon-iv
          And yes, offer our VV-kam such a thing to destroy the Wahhabis tear off with their hands

          it is better to adapt the T-55 to their needs, but "cornflowers" are behind to smoke out the Wahhabis from behind shelters
    2. Basileus
      Basileus 20 January 2014 19: 12
      0
      I completely agree. In our country, most commentators are obsessed with a big war, and the reality is VV operations in the Caucasus, for which a cheap Wolf is much better than a dear Nona and especially Vienna with excess functionality.
  • abc_alex
    abc_alex 20 January 2014 15: 35
    0
    Quote: wanderer_032
    The idea is interesting of course.
    But ....
    Wouldn’t it be better to place the gun on a platform with hinged sides (thereby increasing the area of ​​the gun’s support) over the rear axles, providing the self-propelled guns with an additional 2 side supports and an automated control system (for faster alerting and better firing accuracy) ...


    And how do you imagine the behavior of all this machinery at the moment of the shot? Can you imagine the return impulse of the system? In the presented version, the impulse goes to the ground, right? And by raising the barrel to the platform, we will most likely get a "jumping Wolf" :) And no LMS will save you from accidental displacement of the platform. But it's still good to avoid swinging on the springs. You will not have to carry 2 supports, but all 4 and lift the car on them.

    Here is just a trick in such a "mortar" arrangement.

    I don’t know who among the troops will be interested in such a device, but I am personally glad that the development of the "Wolf" as a platform has begun.

    And then everything is "Tiger" and "Tiger" ...
    1. leon-iv
      leon-iv 20 January 2014 15: 45
      0
      Well xs the hydraulic compensator is big enough.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. wanderer_032
      wanderer_032 20 January 2014 18: 33
      0
      But I didn’t write anything about removing the base plate, and the 2nd side supports for lateral stability of the whole system wouldn’t hurt when firing + we can do the support in front of the blade. We get a car with a circular sector of fire without unnecessary operations to move it to change direction fire.
      And to reduce the recoil momentum, you can work with the recoil gear and with the muzzle brake.
  • Clueless
    Clueless 20 January 2014 15: 43
    0
    it is strange that there are only 2 doors in the car. Calculation there that the 3rd person in total? Moreover, everyone is sitting on the same couch and all the appliances are mounted there?
  • homosum20
    homosum20 20 January 2014 16: 23
    0
    I’m sorry, I’m a layman in artillery, but in my opinion a cool thing.
  • Black radziwiłł
    Black radziwiłł 20 January 2014 16: 25
    0
    Solid technique!
  • Takashi
    Takashi 20 January 2014 17: 36
    0
    I see, the terrorists are well-trained, all kinds of tanks are armed with artillery, since a 120-mm howitzer was assembled against them. What about nuclear weapons
  • kelevra
    kelevra 20 January 2014 19: 27
    0
    Something like a self-propelled mortar! Well, it looks pretty good!
  • Bars90
    Bars90 20 January 2014 19: 59
    0
    A good system ... The option is not bad, but the Bear would have looked better. And to organize a larger caliber ... The use of modules on a wheelbase, a constructive solution.
  • APASUS
    APASUS 20 January 2014 21: 20
    0
    Here to this machine would be the whole arsenal of modern shells. Starting from a shell with a camera and ending with a controlled one that would be right out the window. One shot is one target.
  • chizhik
    chizhik 20 January 2014 21: 28
    +2
    Friends, tell me which of you has a higher technical education and work experience in KB. Maybe combat experience using the above products.
  • c3r
    c3r 20 January 2014 21: 48
    0
    More reminiscent of the technology of the first world. For whom it is and for what. Doubtful mobility, as can be seen in the photo, is charged manually, which only increases the recharge time, which would need to be collected to move. It is doubtful that it would be much more accurate than towed counterparts in accuracy. The house of terrorists can also be destroyed by a tank from a safe distance, by the way, in the conditions of urban development they are used as direct fire, and if it is necessary to hang from behind cover, then it’s probably better than a mortar to have weapons for this. So, what to put in the museum of curiosities and forget.
    1. ed65b
      ed65b 20 January 2014 23: 49
      0
      How is mobility questionable ??? Rested with a shovel in the ground and shoot. The emphasis lifted and on the road. The system is not for shooting homes with terrorists or their families.
  • artgrad
    artgrad 20 January 2014 22: 00
    +1
    Wow! When it’s all ingenious, it’s cheap, formidable, mobile and universal!

    PS. What a buggy site !!! Dumb not incredibly !!! Or is it just me, it takes 2 minutes to load !!!
  • konvalval
    konvalval 20 January 2014 23: 49
    +2
    I was looking at the TVC program "Battle at the Vegetable Base" and the thought came to my mind: on this base, yes on this typewriter, yes with this gun, yes all over this shoble.
    1. iGran
      iGran 21 January 2014 06: 38
      0
      Better on TV)))
  • Dmitry Zurn
    Dmitry Zurn 21 January 2014 11: 29
    -1
    Good day, gentlemen. Of course, I apologize, but in my opinion this is absolutely not a necessary creature. If you continue this way, then you and I will soon become witnesses to the arming of our army, modern squeals, unicorns, muskets. You can still attach an 18th-century cannon to this brainchild and shoot cores. Sincerely.
  • Legionnaire14
    Legionnaire14 23 January 2014 13: 40
    0
    Quote: Dmitry Zurn
    Good day, gentlemen. Of course, I apologize, but in my opinion this is absolutely not a necessary creature. If you continue this way, then you and I will soon become witnesses to the arming of our army, modern squeals, unicorns, muskets. You can still attach an 18th-century cannon to this brainchild and shoot cores. Sincerely.

    I agree. There are a number of models of equipment that is ahead of us. We need to mount active armor + protection against bottom explosions on a wolf, a KPVT machine gun and equip it with granotometres